Sex With Emily - Married Sex, But Better with Pam Costa

Episode Date: November 16, 2016

As anyone in a long term relationship will tell you, maintaining an active, steamy sex life isn’t the easiest of tasks. After a while, you have to work to keep it hot. Luckily today’s podcast tells you how to do just that… In this show, Emily is joined by sex and relationship coach Pam Costa. Together they talk through Pam’s fascinating journey to sexual awakening, discovering her desire and reinvigorating her marriage. Pam and her husband Paul share their most intimate moments, a few fiery fantasies, and their top tips on how to keep a relationship sizzling for years and years to come.   You’ve heard me talk about how to break out of your sex rut. This week, hear from two people who put those skills into practice and came out with a sex life that’s stronger (and hotter) than ever.. Don’t miss it! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everyone, thanks for listening to Sex with Emily and today's show I'm doing by Sex and Relief Chipcote Pam Costa. We'll be getting to Pam's amazing story of her sexual awakening, talking about desire, masturbation, and how to get the sex life you've always wanted because she did it, people. This is a great show and we're also going to be answering your emails. Thanks for listening. You know how I'm always encouraging you to get a little more adventurous in the bedroom? Well, our friends at Sportcheats, you know, the ones who pioneered easy to use bondage

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years and the midnight collection is their latest masterpiece. To check out this or any of the other fun sport sheet products click the sports sheets banner on my website or visit sportcheats.com that's spoE-T-S.com. [♪ music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in Boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute. The girls got a hair stand. Oh my. The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common, but only? What do you mean, like laundry? It's shrink?

Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god. I'm so, so, so, so. Being bad feels pretty good. You know Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex relationships and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com.

We've put everything at your fingertips there. You can subscribe to the newsletter, our social media, our most, subscribe to the podcast. We love when you do that. And while you're there, you can shop by store and you can support our amazing sponsors. And of course, check out all the content. We update every single day. I've got an amazing team and, and Pam's actually here today. She's one of the contributors to our website. She's got an amazing blog. And so I'm check that out. And it's all at at sexwithme.com and at sex with Emily on social media. So you all know how much I love Loub. If you've been listening to the show, you know that I think Loub is the cornerstone of every... It's not the

cornerstone of your relationship, but it could be your sex life and I want to Loub at every nightstand and so Joe, I love their Loubs and they're like, well Emily, we were just talking one day to like, what is your dream loop? Like if you could have your own loop, what would it be? Which you know is so hard sometimes. I was like, what do you want? You're like, oh my God, I can have what I want. And then you're like, your brain freezes.

I'm like, oh my God. And I actually have some ideas of like what it would be. But I thought, you know what? I want your help. So, and by the way, we've been talking about this for a few weeks now, a few weeks now, and we've had like 900 responses. So I just want to thank everybody who went on and took like this five minute survey that's

really, really easy. You go to sexofelmy.com slash dream loop. You take it, and so you take the survey. And we also have some questions about the show. And you guys have had great feedback. I'm actually reading all of them, which is weird for me, but I actually sat and I'm like, love hearing your responses and your feedback. So it's been amazing. And they're gonna help Joe create a brand new loop

that we all designed together, which is fun. Oh, and also, 10 lucky participants will receive a Joe prize package worth $100. I actually think it's more than $100 because they send us these packages all the time that are like, we're so happy. Like, you're like, oh my god, and they make this kind of lube and this kind of massage oil.

I mean, they have great products. So it's sexcelmy.com slash stream lube or just click on the dream lube banner. And I'm going to talk to Pam. Hi, Pam. Hi, Emily. I'm so glad this day has come. I know, right?

Yes, Pam is amazing. Pam is a section, a section relationship coach, and she's the founder of Down to There, which is a blog at DownToThere.com. And she's, she Pam is an amazing story, and we've been posting her blogs on our site. So thank you for sharing your amazing content with us, which has definitely inspired a lot of people I know,

and even myself for you. And I'm like, well, how can she stay on for eight hours? And I can talk to her because I can't believe what she's been through in a year, okay? So I first met Pam. It's actually, I love the story because we, it was our first sexual health expo. And as you all know, we've had like five of them now, I think.

So that was in January 2015. Yeah. Okay. So Pam came and she's with her husband,'s adorable and they were so cute and they came up to, I don't mean to like infantilize you, they're beautiful couple. And they were just adorable because they came out to the table, they were holding hands, we had a booth there and they were like, just talking to my whole team and they were excited, I think you were just kind of starting out on your journey.

Yeah, we really were, it was pretty early on. Was it like your first kind of, I think I had just started blog publicly so the the journey between us had been going on for maybe a year to okay but it was like more public at that point. Well you made an impact on my staff because they're like remember that you work used to work at Facebook so I think they called you the Facebook couple but you don't both work at Facebook but you did right. Yes. The like that really amazing couple the Facebook girl I think they just love they talk to you all the time I think we gave you the prizes that they do. give you the, there are some balls,

the kegballs, yeah. Well, they have to win, of course, because we just love you. So then, so that was that, and we loved you, and we always remember to do that way. And then, as you all know, I've been taking my somatic training,

I think, what are we coming up on our last week? We are, yeah, we're almost done. I'm kinda sad. I feel like I'm going to miss that rewind. I know, we are. It was such a, like, I don't even know that, well, we'll get into that, how to process it all because by brain explodes.

So, Pam's there, and she's one of the assistant coaches there now, and you've been through it all. I have a couple of, like, she's like, yeah, she's helped you a lot on your journey, I know. And so, that's how we've reconnected. So, it's been great. And to get to know you through this way, too, and you're still adorable and smart. And now you have just this really powerful story.

And it's funny, because actually somebody in our class said to me, because there's like 60 people in our class. There are. It's a big class, yeah. And I said, because we're like, well, how would you get here? How would you get here? And he said, oh, I actually heard Pam speak at a conference. And I can't, she actually had that, you know,

issue of really low libido and she'd be with her husband for 20 years, right? 20 years. And she realized like how to like, you know, jump start her libido, explore sexual ed. She did what I want, what needs to have my relationship is what I came to Sematico, because of you. So, and I know that you've touched hundreds of thousands

of other people's lives as well. So, we're going to get into your story, which I can't wait. But first, a little bit of sex in the news. Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. Okay. You have the accent too. Wow. Yeah, it happens sometimes, isn't it?

Shaggle, right? Yeah, Midwest. Midwest. Mm-hmm. It comes out. The Longos and stuff. The Longos. I love it. I just felt very much at home.

We can talk like, we can talk with them at the accent the whole time now We could do like new dating app date miserable people launches in Phoenix Should I just do it with my accent the long a's the whole time? Okay, so there is a new dating app. It's called date miserable people You've probably heard the expression misery loves company and if that holds true a new dating app should be very successful The app date miserable, launched right in Phoenix this year, and the guy created it, said he created the site so people could engage in online dating while keeping it real and honest without feeling intimidated.

It's an online platform that allows people to engage in online dating, honestly, and within the realities of their daily lives. And he said, he personally has been through the founder of it. He's been through the trials and tribulations of all the online dating sites and has experienced the intimidation of feeling inadequate because the majority of people post, you know,

that their life is so perfect. So he's like, everyone is like, my life is perfect. I love like walking on the beach and I love travel and I love hanging on my friends. But that's not who they really really are. He's like, they're really miserable. It's probably what he's thinking. So he said, so that's why he called it this because misery is completely subjective to each individual. A member right be 50 years old, still living his parents house, another member right be having a hard time getting over the passing of a family member. Someone else

might not have any friends or family. Some people are just miserable and generally as us. So, it's what each person considers it. There's no ranking or measurement. And who's miserable? Well, you can't be like, I want someone who's like a 10 on the miserable scale. There's not that. Just like everyone there is suffering in some way. So it's called datemesmerahealbut.com.

And I'm just not sure how this is gonna play out. Like I know, I'm gonna go date someone miserable like me. Like I don't know how that's gonna check. Yeah, like you're gonna be niche. Like why not just like give me the layers of misery here. Right, you know, I'm envisioning like those, you know those Facebook posts that everyone, it's like all the shiny things that are happening

in people's lives. And then there's that one friend that like posts that really awful, but like real story. It's just an app for them. Yeah, exactly. Well, maybe that's what they should do. They should partner with Facebook and be like, keywords, people who are miserable are angry

and have a lot of those. People don't like their posts. They just do the sad face on their posts or whatever you do now. Yeah, whoever gets the most sad faces, we just want them straight into this app. Yeah, because I think you don't want to lead. You want to actually lead with like,

I'm going to try to make myself happy. Do you want like, if I'm miserable and you're miserable, we'll just become more miserable together. I'm just wondering what the profile photos look like in this app. You just crying on your bed, you've been in jerrys or something. But it doesn't have a box of Kleenex or ice cream.

It's like over, you can't. Exactly, you don't look that miserable in that picture because you were skating and you'd feel happy. You're skiing. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. That's not my jam. So, but I'm all for dating online.

You missed the whole dating online. I know, right. It's like 20 years ago. It's kind of, there was like not naming me a big Craigslist then I don't know. Yeah, no, you're lucky. So how did you meet your husband? We met in college in the dorms.

I know. It was a long time ago. Yeah, that's amazing. Okay, so you guys been the dorms and you started dating right away? Yeah, well, he was upstairs for me and I kind of had my eye on him and I had not had a tremendous amount of dating experience. So it was kind of like forward of me to be like hitting on the sky, but I told my friends, I'm like, yeah, I am interested in him and they I think they said, oh, he wouldn't be good for you. Oh, and that was that was it. Like, I was like, yeah, I am interested in him. And they, I think they said, oh, he wouldn't be good for you. Oh. And that was, that was it. Like, I was like, well, I am on

this. Why do they think he wouldn't be good for you? No. If you spend really wanted to bang him or something, you know, that could have been probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we don't know back then that our girlfriends, yeah. Yeah. So you're like, well, if he's not good, then he will be good. Well, make him good. So then you start dating freshman year. Soft more year. Okay. Soft more year. Yeah, and we dated all through college. And I think we actually broke up like our first summer apart, but it didn't last because I think we saw each other every weekend.

Right, yeah. We're broken up. We were like five hours away, but still one of us made it, you know, those five hours every weekend. Okay. Yeah, it was probably over by then. Right, yeah.

Wow. So then you've really, then you've done this. Yeah, it was probably over by then. Right. Wow. So then you've really done, you've done this. Yeah, that was 21 years ago. God, I know. Amazing. I think we just realized we've been together more of our life than we haven't. Right.

Wow. Like truly your life partner. But not always been easy since those heyday days of the dorm. Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, it was pretty good overall. We have a good relationship, but sex was always a little charged for us. Oh, no, oh, that's my question.

In the dorm, always a concollege. Well, I mean, you know, to remember, it was fun. Yeah, exactly. It was 21 years ago. Right. But, yeah, I mean, you know, you're young and you're exploring things and biology's pretty strong in the beginning. And so, I mean, I think there was a lot of fun with it, whether it was like amazing sex.

Yeah, I mean, it was good sex, right? But he always wanted more than I did. Always. I mean, I don't know if I could say like in the first like year of our relationship, but, you know, as the relationship grew and over the decades, he would sit down and feel like, hey, we've got to talk. I want more sex and I'd be like,

I don't know, I'm not feeling those same urges, but I want you to be happy. We could try something. We try at least different things. You buy a sex toy, they're like, okay, there's fun. There's fun. You do a sex toy, they're like okay, that was fun. They're like, you know, she did all the things that I like talk about all the time.

Yeah, yeah. But none of them worked really. They don't stick. Exactly. They don't work. It's like everything in life. You gotta like stick with it. So, right, so you tried those things

and you guys are good communicators. And I'd love that you had good sex at the beginning because a lot of you were like, we have bad sex and we never had good sex. It's like, that's hard to happen to be you guys. I obviously have a genuine love you are like, we have bad sex and we never had good sex. It's like, that's hard to happen to be you guys. I obviously have a genuine love attraction and connection, but you just... So what was the... And you have a child, right?

We do. Yeah, we have nine year old. Nine year old. So it's like having that probably... Well, and that was one of the things that's like, well, when he gets older, it'll get better. You know, we're this... 18 years, honey. 18 years, we're gonna bang like rabbits.

But just hang on there, buddy. Right. So then you... Okay, so it really started... So was there like a rock bottom? I said 18 years ago, we're gonna bang like rabbits, but just hang on there buddy. Right. So then you, okay, so did it really start? So was there like a rock bottom? Like what made you after all these are, because I love that he communicated with you, but still, even though you talked about it, it wasn't.

Yeah, I mean, I was talking, like it's like the talk in a with air quotes, it's like the difficult talk. And it would come up like every six to 12 months. And I think there was a moment where it came up again. And for some reason, that time it felt different. Like I was just kind of like, whoa, this is serious. Like I really needed to pay attention.

Like some things going on here. And this was like how many years ago? Oh gosh, this was probably about three years ago. Okay. Yeah. So you're like, wow, again, usually you wait six months. This is like three months or whatever was. There was like some moment you're like, yeah, yeah. And so I agreed. I was like, okay, I'll go to my OB. I like, I didn't know where to go. Honestly, I like, I didn't know what to do. I was like, is there something wrong with me? Well, first kind of ask, were you taking any medications or? I wasn't. Nothing. Okay.

You're healthy. You're like, yeah, we were done having kids. He had had a vasectomy. I was like, great, like we're not, there's no hormones going in me. Like all these things that we had wondered about had been written off at that point, right? You're like, I just don't want to have sex. Was that it?

I mean, I want to have sex. It was less frequent than how often were you having it at this point? Well, we would have different answers for that. Right. Always like, always like, any howl thing. We're having it like once every week or so and like he was like, no, we're not.

So yeah, so there's question. Okay. Just curious. Yeah. So, um, okay. So then you had this moment, you're like, I got to do something. So you went to OBGYN. Yeah.

OBGYN, yeah. I went to her and she said, yeah, your hormones are all normal. Yeah, she ran the blood test. Yeah, we like, damn it. I wasn't even wrong. said yeah your hormones are all normal. Yeah, she ran the blood. Yeah, we like goddamn it I wasn't even wrong but the biology is so much easier and she's like yeah You could like take testosterone and she's like but that has side effects. You might not want Your clothers could become like that. Your clothers can get big and I was like huh? Like could that be good? No, no, I don't like that. Yeah

And so and she started telling me her story and she basically said like this is so common So many of my patients have this issue And she told me her story and it was really similar and she said, you know, I had good experience going to this therapist Here's my therapist number. Oh, she basically said like the medical community doesn't have a lot for you But here's my therapist number And I called her and she was all booked and then I called the six referrals she gave me and they were all booked No one was accepting clients.

Would that help be a therapist? Yes, I know right is why your business is just gonna be so friggin busy right now There's like a hundred percent of people I literally in that moment was like you know concerned about my health and all but in the back of my business Had I was going Yeah, of people. I literally in that moment was like, you know, concerned about my health and all, but in the back of my business, I was going, you're best person, right? Well, no, what's interesting because that just has a lot about, you know, our society, because I've also, you've probably heard this too, like medical doctors have like a half a,

they're in school for 10 years, and they have like half a day on sex, you know? Like, they're not as trained. And even a lot of couples go to marriage counselors. And I know so many, like, we're in therapy for years and they never talked about their sex life. How do you do that? I'm in school right now to get a therapist licensed as well.

And out of a three year program, we have maybe eight weeks of sexuality. Yeah, and that's going to be like a lot of times as you know that's the point that couples need to work on that. Yeah. Like a lot of the problems are due to that and how does it not come up. So six therapists and then did one answer finally. So they were all booked and luckily my husband is like this amazing internet researcher and he found this sex and relationship coach and I was gonna like a coach what is a coach?

You know what is this? Come on we can do a can of sex. Where are these jerseys? Look really sexy. Yeah, so yeah, so we started chatting over email and I really liked her and I thought, sure. What do I have to lose here? Right, yeah. And can we talk about who that is?

Yes, absolutely. So it's the creator of Samantha Cut. So it's Celestia Danielle. Oh, you were Danielle. In my brain, we said you were Celest. No, so I was with Danielle. She was like four blocks from our house. It was like it was meant to be.

Oh my God. I love this. OK, so back up, let's say this is the first time you listen to this. I never know. So I've been taking this somatic training. And Celestia and Danielle are the creators of it, founders. And they're sex coaches who've been in the Bay Area. We actually started the same year, I think like 2005.

And I love it. They always were like great guests on the show. And they've probably been on like five times over the years. And then they were on last year. Was last year this year. This year? And they were like, okay, Emily, you keep saying, yeah, do something.

Yeah, it's on the air. You're gonna do it and I did it and I've gone to all these like transformational weekends. So anyway, that's what they're both very different. Now I've seen them, like I've spent to all these like, transformation weekends. So anyway, that's getting there. Both very different. Now I've seen them, like I've spent five, you know, 20 days with them intensely in this workshop. So Danielle, she's intense.

I love her. Okay, so you went to see, you talked about the phone. We did, I would talk to her about email. Email. And then said, okay, like let's, let's go in. Let's try this out. She wouldn't together. We did.

Yeah, we went in. As a couple, we went in. As a couple, we sat on the couch. I pretty much, I think I used like half a box of Kleenex in that first session, just being like, it was a little bit wrong with me. And like, I don't know what to do. And like, I love this guy, but like, it's not working.

And, you know, really kind of quite emotional. Right. And she did this amazing thing where she didn't even try to like fix the problem. She just listened and then she talked about all the cultural messages that we get every day. That I know you're so aware of because you talk about these all the time, but like I really had not raised into my consciousness that the world has told women that sex isn't for them and that they should keep it in their pants until they, you know, get married

and then magically it should all work and function and and, you know, I actually was saying the season, I'm like, whoa, that's a lot of whatever this is is. I just never thought about it in different terms. But like you thought you were broken in some way or you were like, there's something wrong with you? Yeah, I'm having sex, yeah, it feels good. But it's like, it's for my husband, you know? Oh, it's not for you, even. Not even your pleasure, right?

Yeah, not that I was consciously thinking those things, but it was very deeply seated in my unconscious, for sure. Right. Yeah, okay. And then she was like, so that's fine. If sex doesn't for you, and you don't, that's fine. She's like, there's nothing wrong with you.

You're completely normal. And I just kind of like this huge weight, I mean, even saying it now, like the weight lifted off my shoulders. And I was like, oh, like I could breathe. Wow. It was like really powerful. Just give you permission to be like, it's okay to be you.

And like, this is what happened. So then what? Because I know there isn't a lot of talking. And then that was the first session. Yeah, yeah. So I think even in that first session, we may have done so they breathing. Yeah, they do this breathing.

And then it's just, I know, it's all about breathing. I think it might have been that first session because when I've kind of felt that, like, we'd off my shoulder, then it was kind of like, you know, when you're told that you don't have to do something, that you're like, oh, I don't want to do that. And it's like, okay, you don't have to do something, that you're like, oh, I don't want to do that. It's like, okay, you don't have to do that.

And you're like, oh, maybe, maybe I want that. So I think I was kind of like, oh, maybe. She's like, okay, I don't want it ever. Like, I know it's okay, but like, I want to want it, right? Exactly. So I can tell me. So then she's like, okay, well, we're gonna do this breath work. We're gonna like breathe, you know, it's like three parts.

So you breathe in your chest and you breathe in your chest, and you breathe in your belly, and then you breathe down to your, can I say that word? Yeah, I would have you like to swear. Yeah, she's just like, breathe down to your pussy. They use pussy in class, but I, yeah, they always talk about your pussy in your cock. And I don't often say that on the show. Like I don't, I don't have a hard time.

It's funny, like I have a sex belly, but yes, we do say whatever we want to show it personally. I had a super hard, like when she's like, when she's like, then I'm pushing the first. I was like, whoa, I know, my face must have just been like, what, what did you just say? Like, how, I don't even understand what you're talking about. Is my pussy just a breathe? Like, it opened up and breathe.

But what? Seriously, and nothing really happened. Like, I did, like, I did what she told me to do. She like, you know, close your eyes and she'll guide you through it. And like, it's all really nice. But it was basically I could feel breath in my chest. Obviously my lungs are moving in and out and then maybe my abdomen a little bit,

like okay, there's a gut there. But down there, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. But it was funny because after that experience, I had a heightened awareness of that part of my body. And we kind of, there's that part of our body is kind of like turned off in a lot of our life, right? We should shut it down. Yeah, and I think I left that session with the slot that,

hey, that's a pretty awesome part of me. Maybe I liked that part of me. Maybe that part that can experience pleasure is actually just for me, like super selfishly, right? Right. And so yeah, so the first like, I don't know, maybe even like a year of my journey was a lot of like just internal connection with my sexuality. Okay. And it benefited my husband because like then I was like more horny and like more interesting and trying things But it was honestly like a really internal kind of experience. Okay, so there was a lot of like

Breathing Like you're saying like I love because your blog down to there Would you guys have to check out her blog down to there? Dotcom and all your social media's add down to there, right? It is everything's down to there Yeah, and anyway, so so that's what you call it down there's like breathe down to there, right? It is. Everything's down to there. And anyway, so that's what you call it down there. It's like breathe down to there. Well, you know, funny thing about that. So my mom helped me with that name.

I was like, I want to start this, you know, I've been blogging and I want to put it out publicly, but I don't know what to name it. And I'm talking this over with my mom with God bless her that she's willing to listen to these conversations. And she's like, well, I mean, didn't this all start with that one exercise? So I'm like looking up online. I'm like, no one has this name. This is amazing.

Yeah. That's a really good name. It's good. Okay, so then you start a breathing. And then your internal thing was it more through, so did you go on the whole journey of, like, because I know I know Semana got kind of, like I feel like I just, it's so hard to explain.

It's a journey. It's a journey. Like it has totally been a journey. Like the first time I came back, I was like, boundaries and then I was talking more about trying to think, remember what else I talked about? Just all the things you go through, but there's so many facets to it. But I was wondering if when you say your internal thing was a lot about like your fan size

about your erotic. Definitely. I mean, it has struggling with battle. Yeah, so many things. It's like, I, at first it was a very sensation based thing for me. It was like, okay, what do I like? And just in the world, I'm like sitting here like rubbing my fingertips together, right?

It's like, what in the world do I like? What is, what gives me lots of sensation? I mean, it could be as simple as like drinking something or like a hot shower, like that really fuzzy blanket or just like all these things that I'm like, wow, I really like that. And so it was that type of thing.

And then it did kind of morph into fantasy, which I didn't have any fantasy. Right, okay, so let's talk about that. Okay, so that's a big part of it. We've talked about this on the show about your, like whether you got your core-erotic theme or your run-ac movie, but that's a big part of it is that like fantasy is okay.

We all have fantasies. And if we don't, go out and find your fantasy. It's a good journey because it helps you, you don't get in the mood for sex, have you get in, we all have fantasies. And if we don't, go out and find your fantasies. It's a good journey, because it helps you, you know, getting the mood for sex, having to get in touch with what you really want. fantasies amazing. So tell me, I've, so tell me about your journey, so you're like, what, I have no, you, yeah.

We, so we were sitting there on the couch and she was asking, like, you know, what do you, kind of, what helps turn you on, or helps kind of, you know, turn you on more. And, you know, and my house was talking about, like, fantasies. And I was like, oh, it's sensation. Like, I want sensation. I want to feel something.

I want to feel like, I want to feel my pussy on it. I want to feel like getting tense and like, all these things. And so I like have to close my eyes and think about that. And, and we both kind of looked at each other, like we're from different planets. Like, I was like, I don't understand what you're talking about. He was like, I don't understand what you're talking about. So she was like, you don't have fantasies?

And I said, no, I, I don't. Like,'re talking about. He's like, I don't understand what you're talking about. So she was like, you don't have fantasies? And I said, no, I don't. Like that doesn't, it's not a thing. Because you master me, right? Or had you. Yeah, but it was all sensation. It was like close my eyes, go inward, follow this sensation, keep building it. And I realized what was happening,

and as again, it's this societal messages. Like you shouldn't fantasize about someone other than your partner. And what I realized is my fantasies in general, as I learned to develop them, where I would be in the real world, and a guy would cross my path, and I would have this thought like, oh, he's cute. And I would go shut it down. Right. You know? And so gone, like no fantasy, that was like a, you know, one second thing. Right. And so gone, like no fantasy, that was like a, you know, one second thing.

So after that conversation with Danielle, I started like approaching the world differently and I was like, oh, there's a guy. Huh. Like what would happen? It's so great because it's just happening in your mind. Right. No one knows what's going on. Right.

And so, yeah, so I started really getting this repertoire of fantasies and it actually helped me around that choral-erotic theme because I was like, okay, what was it that struck me about that situation or about that particular scene that made it so hot for me, you know? And then when I played it out with my head, like, what did I have happened? Like, oh, that's interesting. How could I bring that into my sex life? It would be an example. Yeah, so, okay. So this one's fun. So we were on like a river-rafting trip for work. Again, no one knows, thank God, what's going on in my head. This is like river-rafting trip at work, right?

But we were going down the river, and this guide had been doing this for, I don't know, 12 years or something, very experienced. Kind of rugged looking guy with, you know, the plied lumber jacket shirt, and like fine, good looking, but not like incredible. And he gets us in this, what's it called? Like an eddy or something where the water's like

swirling around and you can, so we're going down these rapids and our boat gets stuck, our raft gets stuck. And he's just like literally filling up with water. Like I am terrified and he's like, and he's like yelling at us like, you know, but bail bail and we're like all doing this thing and we're freaking out. And I turn around and look at him. And he has this like shit ass grin on his face. He's just like, he's just smiling. And I look at him and I'm like, what's going on?

He's like, I've been trying all season to make this happen. And he's like, and it finally happened. you're fine. It'll bail itself. You'll be fine. And I just was like looking around at the chaos around me. And it was just like, there was something about that like confidence, that layfulness, that was totally, and so of course the fantasy was that we got out of thing and we went off and like people were, you know, having their lunch or something on this side of it, but we were back in the woods. Right. Yeah. Right. Okay. Got it. He's like a rugged. I got it. So that was the first time you were like, Oh, I'm going to take this to the next place. And then your husband's cool with that. The demon. I hope so. A lot of you would say, right? Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, it helps for me.

It helps keep sex and desire and eroticism more top of mind. Right. For me, if I have fantasy, if I have a toy that I'm excited to try, if I have whatever that we've been talking about, a flirty email or something, all of that stuff makes, I think Celeste and Daniel will call it like, keeping the pilot light on. Right? You know, otherwise it's like, do you want to have sex? Oh, shit, like I got to get the matches out. I got to say that.

Exactly. So you've learned to keep exactly, you've learned to keep your pilot up, but through all these different exercises that kind of are somatic and probably whatever else you've, right? Because, okay, so you've done a lot of things, so this is what I find so interesting. So I've got a question for you,

I know that you've tried, you've done a lot of exploring, and when we come back, I want you to tell me about some of those intimate experiences. We're gonna give a big shout out to our sponsors. So thank you everyone for supporting them and for listening to the show. We are back. Let's talk about the orgasm gap. You don't know what the orgasm gap is? Okay, so a little refresher. Men take anywhere between six to 8 minutes to orgasm during intercourse. Women between 20 and 40 minutes. You see the issue here? There's like a gap. Even if you

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and target too. That's right, you can write out, get some today. Of course, you can also click on the Progressive Ben or my site or visit Probescent.com today. Okay, I back with Pam, Pam Costle. This is fun. I know, I know.

I know, and great time. Okay, so this is what I can't wait to get to do. So one of your blogs, I paced it here, you wrote, ever since my husband I started seeing a sex coach, I've been researching everything I can related to sex, and by researching, I mean, a tiny class where I masturbated with a group of women, a workshop where my husband learned to time me up,

and a dinner where the waiter's and waiters is sedresses seduced their patrons. Um, one must not rest on our laurels though, so I recently continued my research by dragging my husband to a class called titled, Palishing the Penis. I know. So I love this. I love your experiences, right? It's a, oh my god.

Oh my god, you've done so, so was it, so through this therapy, you did all these things. Um, which one of these like stands out to you is being like I mean I guess probably each time you come out of it You're like that. Yeah, I mean Yeah, if you were to tell me if I would have done any of these things like a year ago I would have just been like you are insane or we'll make two years ago Yeah, I just a lot you've done and they all sort of Fed into this to keep it top of mine. Yeah, definitely your pilot life way on. Yes, it is yeah I mean you masturbated with a group of women in front of a group of women. I did

Yeah, so Betty Dodson She is this like 86 year old firecracker if you ever thought you you know We're like oh, I'm like worried about growing older like what's it gonna be like like she is an excellent role model She's incredible So she's been doing these circles since like the 70s where she gets women together. And she basically spends two days with them. The first day is Jenna will show and tell,

which is exactly what it sounds like. You get up and put her in your like, hi, this is my vulva. Pretty much like you sit on the floor and like the little Pixar lamp and then like a mirror. So you can see too. Like you're all in everyone's like, you know, like a foot away from you, like crowd it

around in the semi-circle looking too. And she's just talking about, you know, the design and the hairstyle and how beautiful. She has like the nicest things to say about everybody's volas. It is fantastic. Like, you really learned to, like, I didn't know mine had that little crease and freckle right? Yeah, okay. Yeah, and then you name them.

It's kind of like an empowerment kind of, you know, this thing that you don't see, right? Because you can't see, you know, with guys, it's like the jungle right there. Right. One sees it, you know, we've got to go in. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

So that's day one, and then it's day. Yeah, it's pretty intense, but it's really crazy empowering. And then on day two, she has magic wand vibrators, and she does a little show and tell on that. And then there's basically, I think she calls it erotic recess, where you all, you're just kind of laying around in a semicircle. You're not facing each other, you're all laying on your back, some kind of, and yeah, you're

just... Mastering? Exploring, yeah. Mastering magic wand. The same water, like you cleaning it, as if you're going to get a little condom over it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you're like having, so as everyone like having orgasms together and yeah, pretty much.

Wow. Which is kind of crazy. And what did you, what was your takeaway from that? Well, so I really hadn't thought about the fact that I had not really taken ownership over my folder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like pussy. Now you like it. Now I like it too. I know. I know. It's true. I thought it wasn't Yeah, pussy. Yeah, I like pussy. Now you like it.

Now I like it too. I'm okay with it. It's true. I thought it wasn't OK, but you know what I mean? It's just something. It's actual, right? It's not like my folder. And it was just a great, perfectly accurate word.

But yeah, so this concept that, I mean, it was for like the doctor and for my husband and for these other people, because I didn't look at it. I hadn't touched it in that way and really taken ownership over it. And so that was actually super empowering. I had had a master'satory life that looked one way. Like I learned how to master it when I was like six years old

and my girlfriend's basement. And I mastered that master made it that way for every single day for the right way. Exactly, exactly, right for decades. And then I had never used a vibrator before. Really? No. No. I had never like... Well, actually, I take that back. I had used like the insertable things, and I was like, this isn't doing it for me. Like, what's going on with that? And then, of course,

magic wand is external, and bad, of course, is where all the magic is. And I was like, oh, like, that's why I masturbate the way I masturbate, because it's like this. How would you... So, you were whispering, you said, I'm your stomach. Yeah, I laid on my stomach and with my hand, I was basically, yeah, I was just saying a lot about you. Yeah, because it's about my sex life, it's so great. So, yeah, I get a lot of pressure that way, and the magic one is great for that.

So, then I was exploring all the ways I could get pressure. It was like, I was doing the hot tub jets and like different toys. So, yeah. It's amazing. So, yeah, I took that away. I owned my vulva, and then I did a lot of playing with my vulva. I mean, you've got used to you in the fantasy of the vulva.

I mean, you just, so now are you feeling that you do want sex more often? Yeah. I mean, I would like you this perfect every day. You want to be a student. Yeah, I would say like my natural state, because I'll like really get into the flow with work or with just doing things and with friends and family and everything. And so my natural state is to not think about sex organically. Okay.

I think a lot of us can relate to that. And I think that's true. And that could very much be my default way of operating in the world. But I actually like this other version of myself. I really like it when the pilot's life is on. This is new pan. I feel more feminine. I feel more creative.

I feel more alive. It's like all these good things come with it. So it's like worth it to me now to spend time like reading some erotica, watching some porn, you know, going to this class, doing whatever the like huge long list of things is you can do to keep it top of mind. Is there anything like a daily ritual that you do every day for sure or weekly? No, I'm not. I'm much more spontaneous. I really, and that's part of what's fallen out of this. Journey is like going wherever my energy is. And so I'll be like, what do I really want right now?

I want chocolate or I want to call a friend or I want to go masturbate or I want to send my husband a flirty text message. And being more reactive, not being as reactionary and really in the moment being like what do I want? Just not what should I do but what do I what I really want? What do I want? What do I want? I'm pushing what? I'm pushing what? I'm pushing what's to be on the section to end the show. And okay so we have a special guest here another one.

We do. We have Paul here. You're your lovely husband and I forgot. on this actually end of the show. And okay, so we have a special guest here, another one. We do. We have Paul here. Your lovely husband. And I forgot, I mean, I knew you guys were coming together. You told me when I started, it's a manic, I was like, but I want to talk to Pam. But I realized, Paul's awesome.

He's been through this journey. Hi, Paul. Hi. I know, and it's a really common question from readers of my blog, too. They're like, what about him? Like, is he going to write a blog? Is he going to tell a side of the story? I'm like, no, he's a really common question from readers of my blog too. They're like how about him like is he gonna write a blog? Is he gonna tell a side of the story? I'm like no, I just don't really want to blog But he's super excited to be here. I think Paul. I'm so excited. You're here. Thank you

I know you're also fan of the show. Okay, can I can I talk about the fact that you're the so a few months ago? I was in a relationship I realized and I had never really talked about it and being and I had talked about it My emotions read and then Paul cornered me. We were at a party for our sematic, everybody's like, yeah, and I thought you didn't like, I didn't even know you really like, well, I don't know. You were in this relationship and you just ended up talking about it at all. I didn't share it. I'm like, God damn it. I couldn't get out of my head. And so I was like, okay, so my friend's husband, now you're my

friend too, but I was like, I'm sorry, and I did tell the whole story about the break-up, which was very cathartic. So thank you for pushing me in that direction. You're welcome So now that's out of the way. Okay, so yeah everyone wants it So a lot of we've a lot of male listeners of how I go. Okay. Yeah, or women who also are probably totally like oh my god I'm relating what's my husband gonna think like how did you because Clearly this Pam sitting here is a very different Pam than two years ago. That's definitely true, right? Okay, so Tell me about your experience with this. Well, I was listening to her story this Pam sitting here is a very different Pam than two years ago. That's definitely true. Right. OK. So tell me about your experience with this.

Well, I was listening to her story. You're like, mine's different. Yeah, it is a little different. I mean, I think back to that first session with Danielle, and I can remember kind of saying to her, OK, Danielle, here's the thing. We have a great marriage. The only problem is we don't have enough sex.

So. Oh, that. Quite quickly, like within a couple of weeks, Danielle had kind of convinced Pam that sex was for her and that she could want sex for herself. And suddenly we were having more sex, and I felt like, oh my god, we're cured. But it didn't really take too long after that to sort of realize that the sex wasn't exactly what I thought that it was going to be.

I was, I wasn't even initiating. Like, she was initiating and she had never initiated before. Wow. I thought, what does it deal with this? And eventually, sort of got to the point where I started to realize that, like, boy, I think all these years of being shut down and kind of screwed with me.

Like, I was almost a little damaged in terms of confidence and honestly, kind of still I'm working my way through that. Right, cause we don't realize also the male experience of saying no, saying no, saying no, you're gonna feel like, okay, like the Jack did not, it's desirable. Absolutely.

Yeah, cause that's 20 years of, I'm not saying, you always said no Pam, you know, I'm everyday, but I get it So wow, so then for pair right it's like we learned something like relationships are so much about repair So you've had to do some work on yourself for on that so if you started to Initiate well, how do you feel? I mean, I wish I could have in two weeks to sort of have that whole thing figured out But I think I'm so long journey. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But you've had some fun. You guys did the sexy stranger thing. Oh, we did.

I love that. That's actually a good, good, sexual experience for me at least. I love that story. So I always tell people like, oh, yeah, we'll do that. I always, one of my suggestions, this is what I love, that every single thing, not everything, but she's going to get there.

A lot of the tips that I've given you or like suggestions, how to spice things up, Pan and Paul actually did them. They do them. They they they they I don't know anybody to the sexy straight like you went to so the sexy stranger is role playing in fantasy and I always say you know what? Go to another town like like pretend that you've never met and be like sexy stranger. It's even in my book. I was just looking at my book and it's like and I'm like but who do you know I have a few friends who've did it, but they kind of half-assed it. You guys, full on, went to Vegas, tell the story. Yeah, I'm not.

We did, so I'll start and then you can take over because he did a much better job staying in character compared to me. I know, I love it. Yeah, so we kind of had this idea that we go to Vegas and we go out to dinner and then after dinner. So we kind of be our normal selves for dinner, right? Have a good time at dinner and then we would go to the spa. And I would leave the restaurant

first and I would go to the spa and I'd sit down and then he would come. And so I'm going to let you tell the story from there. Well, I kind of created a fake persona and which really helped. I think actually kind of key to the whole thing was having. So it happened to be AVN weekend in Vegas. How about that? So I made myself like a movie producer. I didn't really say what kind of movie. And it was so mysterious. Yeah, so I came and I introduced myself as Drake

and you could immediately see this look of shock interface like, oh, we're doing fake names. Really do it. I don't know how my fake names are totally different names. Yeah, so I but we're doing fake names. I really do it for every fake name. I don't know where you're doing fake names. Yeah, so I would highly recommend the fake persona. Really, I mean, if you're trying to be, if you're trying to act differently than your normal life, I mean, creating a fake persona

goes a long way. And then you guys were, I mean, I think we should have sent people to read your blog unless you want to get knowledge, but I feel like that, because we got so much to cover here, but what's the name of that blog post? It's a stranger. It's a stranger.

Stranger roleplay? I mean, yeah, they're putting in more names. Yeah, no, they're amazing. I love your blog down to there, but it's just a great, and I love that they're just, they're very like, you know, I don't know, I love the way you write, I love the way you explain the details about what happened during their journey. I would just check it. I think it's on our website.

Yeah. Okay. But anyway, it's great that you guys, because the conclusion is that you're able to create this different person, you can really start to like act sexually different to it, so to having someone else in a way. Yeah, because you're basically all those like habits and ideas that you have about each other kind of go out the window and you kind of look at each other with new eyes, which is really what therapy and coaching and all of that is about for you to not assume that you actually know each other.

Because there are things you don't and you don't even know yourself and things change. Exactly. The sex that night was different. It was totally different. It was. It was a amazing sex. It was a fake persona. You can be someone else in bed.

Wow. And you really felt that that was like, because you were like dominant and down made, and you're like, I can do this. And then you were probably told that was like, because you were like dominant and dominant. You're like, I can do this. And then you were probably told, oh, yeah, it was great. Like in the elevator, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is better than I would have thought. See, I think this is, I love that you guys did this. What's up next, then?

Next thing you're gonna try. Oh, I don't know. We don't, we used to be so good at like the classes and doing all these things. We've already already done something. Yeah, I feel like I got some vacations planned coming up. So that all these things. We've already already done some. Yeah. I feel like there's some vacations planned coming up. So that'll be exciting.

OK. Well, you guys are inspiration. I love it. Yeah, next show. I love that you keep saying it's a journey. It's not like you, you're doing all these class takes a while. I love that you guys are in a totally, it seems like you're in a completely different place.

Yeah, that's true. And now you have to find anything to find about probably. But I just love this story because I just feel like so many couples just don't realize, don't think that they can never get through this. Like, it's impossible. I can never talk to my partner about this. Like, when you guys were not probably talking about it, you were having the conversation every six months, but you weren't like, what can I do?

I think there's a shift from talking about what the problem is and all of the, like, you know, difficult things. And then there was the shift from talking about what the problem is and all of the difficult things and then there was the shift to being like, and to also feel like obligated to like meeting your partner's needs, but there's a shift when we went to Danielle to saying, okay, like, what are your needs? What are my needs? Like, I didn't know what my needs were and like to really pause and be like, what are they? And express them and then see like where we have the opportunity

to meet each other's needs and where we don't. And then you have to, you know, process the appointment and all this stuff. And it was a really like we had been communicating. Right. But not like that. Well, no, but that's why I think so Madoka is so amazing for a couple.

Like I don't know any other tool, which is why I'm also taking the course.. I don't know any other, which is why I'm also taking the course. I don't know any other tools for couples that I think that is this effective at getting people really to the root of it and to kind of stoking that fire again and rekindling the robot. Whatever we always do, we always joke. And you're like, how many ways can we say spice

in a real relationship? But whatever is bringing back that spark, that's the thing I can ever make. I have to say that spark. But you guys are doing it, you're doing it. Where we are today is well beyond where I ever thought we could be when we started coaching. And we never would have gotten there on our own.

Right, you just can't because you're having the same conversation over and over again. Was there anything that sticks out for you is like, I don't know, Paul, like, was it ever was there anything that was really particularly challenging or that you, like, advice that you could tell, share, what you've learned? Deep moment.

I'm sure there is, but it just keeps coming back to the confidence thing. Like, I just, I can't even tell you how damaged my confidence was and I really didn't have a sense for it at first. It was so easy to put it on her for so long I can't even tell you how damaged my confidence was and I really didn't have a sense for it at first. It was so easy to put it on her for so long of like, hey, my wife doesn't want to have sex. So it's like the best excuse in the world.

And then when that's taken away from you, suddenly, you're almost like this performance anxiety. It's like, okay, now bring it. Like be this guy that you want to be. And do it right now with very little practice. Wow. And I like never had any appreciation for that when we are going through it.

I'm like, oh, crap. Like, I created this over decades, right? And so, like, now, you know, this journey has been so good that I left my job out of tech and like went into this sex and relationship coaching career. And like, it's been so helpful to understand that that is a real outcome of this type of dining in. Okay, so it's not right.

Yeah, because it's so common. So, and I always say, you gotta get your confidence at Gek. If you always ask me how do I get the confidence. So, what would you say it was just sort of communicating and peeling back the layers of what it was? Part of it. I also think that guys in general get really caught up What would you say it was just sort of communicating and peeling back the layers of what it was? Or how do you do? I also think that like guys in general get sort of really caught up and like not wanting to be a creep.

Like you get so much negative imagery of like this creepy guy and nobody wants to be the creepy guy. So it's like when you bring your sexuality into a certain situation, I know I had gotten like, oh, god, like don't be the creep, don't be the creep. Right. And I. You hear that from the guys all the time,

how do I not be the creep? And I kind of, if I've kind of come to any realization there, it's that you just got to kind of go for it. Like, you just got to be OK with that being a possibility because most of the time it's not. Well, it's true. And like, you'll know if you're going to be, which is the fact that you probably have the thought that you might be creeped you're probably not

going to be. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe you're a creep. Yeah, I could be. Maybe she liked that too. She's like a real possibility. But so you mean also like through that you're like, oh shit, now I can have sex with everyone. And now I have to ask for these things and you're like, what is she judges me for this fantasy, which you guys after 20 years probably hadn't shared until now. You bet. And now you're getting them all mad. Randy, did you guys have sex out there when you were waiting for me? I made two loud. No, you can never be too loud.

You can never too much sex here. I love that you're here and share your story. Thank you so much to both of you. Do you want to stay and help answer some emails? Absolutely. I would love that. Thank you Pam. Again, her blog is down to there.

And we also, I think every week, when we're good at it, we're putting up different posts and stuff so thank you for sharing that and I really think if you check it out or if you need it if you need a sexual relationship coach you can go check out Pam you can do it on Skype. Absolutely. Yeah and I've just seen this as be some of the most powerful work and seeing you clap I'm sure you're I know you're awesome so I know you could help people even just sharing sharing your story to help people. And also, wait, there's other, one more thing, your circles, you want them to, people can join.

Yeah, yeah, too. I just think it's sex is such a taboo topic, and we don't talk about it with our partners, and we don't talk about it with our friends, and that's a real shame, because everyone has similar experiences, and it just feels really nice to hear that. So yeah, I started along with getting coaching a group of girlfriends and I started meeting

and talking about sex and it was incredible. And after a year of that, like listening to what was happening to them in their relationships, it was equally powerful as to what's happened with us. And so I thought, wow, I can't keep this to myself. I want other people to get together and talk about sex, women, men, whatever. And so yeah, so I thought, wow, I can't keep this to myself. I want other people to get together and talk about sex, women, men, whatever.

And so yeah, so I create content. I put it up on my website for free. There's literally no strings attached, other than being brave enough to ask your friends if they want to talk about sex. I love it. That's good. You're right, we really don't.

I mean, I do. I've been healthy. I've been every one of the sexer all day long, but most people do that. We've got the same mission to get people to talk about sex. Right, exactly. I'm glad. And I never get tired of it. Okay, so now I'd love you both

to help me answer some emails, right? Fund the people. Okay, everyone, if you have a question that you have been answered on the show, that's awesome. Just go to sexwithatm.org.com and you click on Ask Emily Forum, and you just submit it. And now there's a little button there you can check, yes, I would like to be called,

because then we'll set up a call with you and you can actually ask me that question live. It's gonna be so fun. You can also leave me a voice mail. That's eight when eight asks SWE1 and always include your name, your gender, where you live. How you listen? That helps us.

We love it. Okay, ready? Yes. Hi Emily, I love your show and I've been listening for the past six months. I discovered masturbation and I've been able to make myself orgasm from a pretty young age and I've masturbated most day since I was 13. I was a late bloomer to having sex and I had sex for the first time at 21, two months ago.

My boyfriend, I have sex three to four times a week, but outside of that, I have not felt the need to masturbate. Is this okay? I know the importance of exploring my body and still try to masturbate a few times a week, but outside of that, I have not felt the need to masturbate. Is this okay? I know the importance of exploring my body and still try to masturbate a few times a week, but only because I know it's important. I used to enjoy masturbating and I would really like to get back to that place if you have any tips or do you think I should just enjoy the sex and not worry about masturbating. I have a few toys but predominantly just use my fingers for masturbating by the way. Thanks, Jen, age 21. Well, I love that she's so self-aware about masturbation, and she's still doing it three to four times a week and having sex every day, and she's 20.

I feel like 21-year-olds are much more enlightened than when I was 20. I know. I realize how important masturbation is. It doesn't look like I feel like when I was 21, a masturbation was something you were ashamed of. Exactly. Exactly. And I think a lot of people,

I mean, at this age, still think that's except for Jen, because she's been listening for six months. Maybe that's why Jen, you're awesome. I love that you have, I didn't even know, I think I learned at 21, what masturbation. And then I hadn't done it yet.

That was my problem. Okay, I mean, Jen, I think you're totally, I feel like you've been doing the exploring and I mean, if you're only, the reason why it's great is just to keep connected with your body. So you use your fingers only. You might wanna try some new,

like Pam was saying like she tried a toy. She, you don't have to go to masturbation class, but you could, like Pam, but you could just try different ways, like different, like. And I'm thinking like mutual masturbation, right? Like, tartar masturbation, like, he can do it, you can do it, you can crotch.

I mean, it's just like, wow, this could be fun. Yeah, I love, that's one of my favorite things, mutual masturbation, I want my favorite tips, because then, Jen, you could like, look at how he does it and how no, what turns you on, you'll watch each other, who knows, you might have having sex, so that is a great way. And just, you know, you can learn a lot about how to partner, or pleasure your partner by

watching them masturbate. Exactly. Exactly. It's called all the information's there. Oh, he tugs his penis to the left. I'm gonna do that next time I give him a blowjob, that kind of thing, right? Does it? Well, any advice there for young Jen? Well, I think the major masturbation, Any advice there for young Jen? Well, I think the major masturbation, it's a good time. One is an interesting one. I think people underestimate how erotic that can be to the other part. I know.

Because people think, though, I don't want to see my partner see me make that face that I make and the rubbing and it's dirty, it's wrong, and not only should we never do it, but we definitely can't do it. So taking away all that stigma and all the judgments we have around it. Yeah. I think you're right. But also, like, if it's coming and going, your masturbatory life, totally fine. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. for two reasons that you didn't answer my question about like a daily ritual because I'll never have a daily ritual. I've tried my whole life like every day I get up and do this and there's some things with like auto order like I'll exercise and get coffee or then I'll meditate or maybe I won't but yeah if I try to do that I just shame myself I'm like it too. Why should I be shaming myself? Right no shame yeah don't shame all over yourself. Okay, hi Emily another email

ready? My wife and I had a wife. We started to try to have children and it was the first time we started having sex in a few years. We immediately decided to stop trying for children and instead focus on us and recapturing that spark when we were younger. She's worried that we won't be able to we won't be able to get that spark back. It just doesn't even remember the spark. I can remember getting home and tearing our clothes off and not being able to keep our hands off each other. So I know it was there. How do we start working on reigniting our spark together?

We both love each other very much, but feel like we have become only best friends. We both love your podcast and are willing to try anything to recapture the magic we had in our younger years. Thank you Todd, age 31. You guys are like the poster couple, I know. Whoa. He's kind of like where you guys are.

Yeah. In a way I were. Yes. Right? So what would you say to Todd? I think that she doesn't even believe there was the magic. She doesn't even remember the magic. I love how he wants to work so hard.

We'll do anything. You know, it's like we all won't work really hard at this. He's like, we'll do it together. Like just tell me what to do and I'll do it. Well, I mean, how much of not everybody, you know, you could call Pam. You could go see a therapist. You could do that.

I mean, they've been together for, it doesn't matter how long I guess they're experiencing this rut. So. I would encourage them to talk about fantasies. Yeah, I always think that's a good starting point too. Because I think a lot of us think that we have good communication with our partners, but I know that when we started talking about fantasies, like there's stuff that you're holding back that like you you're worried about being judged bought by whatever and you know, I think there's a certain point you can get to where you can be like,

you know, that guy on the rafting trip or you know that girl that girl that delivered the pizza today, like I was totally thinking like I could take that girl right here. And like you don't want, I didn't want to say stuff like that. Like the longest time. And then like there's something about sort of getting past that point of communication and relationship where you suddenly, the store kind of opens and it's like, oh yeah, we can, we can talk about anything.

Like I can say things to you that are uncomfortable to me and know that you're gonna accept them. Right, and of course, like I'll totally empathize with Todd's wife here and like if she's not feeling that desire or she doesn't remember what it was like to feel that desire, like jumping straight to fantasy is might be tough for her, you know? Like it was great, we got there eventually, like to go to fantasy might be tough for her, you know? Like it was great.

We got there eventually, like to go there right away would have been really hard. And so if that's kind of the situation, I would say, like there's this really kind of crazy fine line between just feeling alive and like being in touch with your sexuality. And so, you know, if it's, if she can't get in touch with like, oh, what are those sexual experiences

that really made me alive? What are just things in life that make her alive? Like, you start with like a blanket, a warm blanket, or hot tea. Yeah, like, what are, yeah, what's something she really wants to go do? And can they share in that and can, you know, can you guys feed each other in that way?

And my guess is like, when you get into that state, you'll kind of be like, oh, wait, like, there's something else going on here. Right, it tried maybe, yeah like, try new experiences together, like the novel, like we would say, like, you know, doing the novelty kind of goes away after a while, like, so trying, spending some time together and thinking about these kind of things. You could also buy like, Sluss and Danielle's book too, like I think it's a great book. Yeah, making love real.

Making love real. It's a great book, like couples can read it together, like I have a friend who, this wasn't this, like, 15 years ago when they got together and she's always been like, all about therapy. They were living in London and she like bought a therapy book and full on like every Thursday they did it and like it really helped. Amazing. Right. Or, you know, say coach.

But I think, obviously, Todd, you can see that you can recapture the magic because it is possible for everybody. Like, I think this is just very inspirational in your stories. And there is no, the thing is there is no one path. So I think that was a good point to your point, like she would be like fantasy, like I don't even know that I, but I always say like a bucket list too

is great like are the things you've just been wanting to try. And we can say it doesn't have to be sexually, it can space maybe she really needs, because you'll find out Todd, you could be like what are five things you want to do this year together? So just starting there, maybe she just wants to have a night where you guys go to dinner and you don't bring your, Todd, you could be like, what are five things you want to do this year together? So just starting there, maybe she just wants to have a night

where you guys go to dinner and you don't bring your cell phone. You know? That might be something that would really turn around. We don't know. So that could be a fun way to start. Yeah, you can play this like, I turn myself on when game, where you're taking the pressure off of the other person turning you on and saying, really, what turns you on?

Like, I turn myself on when I take a bubble bath. I turn myself on when I read a rhodica and you can just go back and forth and you can learn a lot about each other with that game. That's a fun game. Do you guys play that game at when you're driving in the car? You guys are fine. Okay, I think that's all we got time for. Sounds good. You guys this is a really good story. I love you both. You are a very cute couple still. You're still a very couple. Yeah, thank you for listening the show. Thank you Pam for sharing your stories and you can all check it out at downtothere.com. And thank you Madison. Thank you to Laurie and Jamie and Eddie and Ken. Thank you Ken. And thanks

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