Sex With Emily - People Pleasing Killed Your Sexual Pleasure

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

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I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Today I'm talking to Chelsea Gooden, the teenage girl whisper, and we're diving into something that affects all of us, no matter our age. The teenage inside of you is probably still running your life. We're covering how people-pleasing shows up in your life. sex life, why body shame starts way earlier than you think, and how radical honesty is the key to breaking free from constantly performing instead of actually living. This conversation is about

learning from teenage girls, their struggles with saying what they really want, their fear of not being good enough, and how they're trying to figure out who they are when everyone's telling them who they should be. Sound familiar? If you ever said, it's fine when it's really not, or you can't it out of your head during sex. Stay right here and let's get into it. Today, I'm so excited to talk to a woman who I like to refer as the teenage girl whisper and she happens to be a dear friend. Chelsea Gooden has been an academic tutor educating and empowering young teenage girls for over a decade and her book underestimated the wisdom and power of teenage girls as garnering major accolades. I think you will see a lot of yourselves

through these girls' daily struggles and realize we could all work through self-doubt, shame, and people-pleasing through some radical honesty and stepping into the power that this book encourages. Welcome, Chelsea. Thank you. I couldn't be happier to be here. I'm so glad you're here. So I went around in anticipation of our interview and I thought, what? Because I really want everyone to read this book who has a teenage girl in their life. What I've always heard is that they just struggle.

They're like, I can't get my daughter to talk to me. My niece won't open up. We're talking with my neighbor. There's all these tropes about teenage girls. And I said, but if you could, like, what do you want to know? They all said they need to know, how do I get the teenage girls in my life to talk to me about things without shutting down? How do I get them to share more information?

How do they have breakthrough conversations? How do we do that? This is great. So this is the question for sure. And I would say, first of all, teenage girls feel judged about everything. And so often we're coming at them with advice and fixing or trying to teach them or protect them and we're not actually listening to them first, letting her speak first. And when she feels heard and respected in this way, this is when she starts opening up when

she doesn't feel judged. I have some really practical tips in the book that is as simple as phrasing everything as a question. So by doing this, this creates a feeling of respect that you actually care to understand where she's coming from and invite her input. So it could be questions like, what are your thoughts on that? You know, what do you think the solution is? How does that make you feel? You know, what do you think about that? And those are the types of questions said with a non-judgmental, genuinely curious tone that is such a critical

part of this. And also with no secret agenda behind the words. And then when she does share her thoughts, this is key. And this is often a progression. This is not a zero to ten situation. But when she does share her thoughts, even if it's a small thought at first, you affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, You say, like, that was so smart. Oh, you know what? I hadn't thought of it like that. Like, I really respect what your thoughts are on that. Because when she feels affirmed, she feels heard, she feels valued, she feels respected.

And when she feels that way, that's when she really starts liking herself and liking you. And in general, a teenage girl is going to like you and open up to you and connect with you. If she likes the way that she sees herself through your eyes. and that's because when she feels that value and not judgment, then that's when she steps into her own power and feeling of self-trust and all these good things come from that. I mean, that's so key because in hearing that, it's like, we're doing it so wrong. Like most of us are like, how school today, this is what you need to do? We jump in trying to fix.

So I think most people are kind of handling this in a way that's harmful and pushing the girls away, right? Yeah, and there's a lot of slapping positivity on stuff. Well, it's not that bad instead of actually holding. space for a teenage girl's feeling. So that's another huge element is a teenage girl feels very judged and criticized for her big feelings. You know, they stereotype them as dramatic and emotional and crazy. And that doesn't feel good for her. And it's not an emotionally safe space. So of course she's going to close off and put up walls and shut down. And instead, we could create space to just listen again and be like, yeah, that sucks. Yeah, that I totally understand why you feel that way.

And then when she's here, it's like, oh, okay. Like, I'm not, yeah, you're not going to judge me like everyone else. Yeah. You're like listening, listening. And then that helps to relax her too because you're just loving her for who she is rather than something you think she should be, right? There's so many shoulds on teenage girls. So how do you think you got them to confide in you?

What was your journey? So, well, first of all, the coming at them with no judgment. But I also am very radically honest. And teenage girls love radical honesty. So when you are just keep it real with them, we're like, oh, that's not good, you know, they can sense when you're telling them the truth. And they can sense when adults are very lying to them in subtle ways, half truth, submissions, this whole vibe of like trying to put on a show, you know, to teach her or protect her. And they actually want to keep it super real. And when somebody's real with them, that's another way to really connect and open up to. It's so different than what parents are set out to do. I have to make all the decisions for them. I have to protect them. I have to keep them safe. It's so, like the antithesis really of what parenting is. I think if I lean in and I accept her and I ask questions and I'm not going to do my job. But through your book, you really do show these examples where you make it seem so simple.

Yeah. And a teenager is a different era of life where they need some agency. And by giving a girl choice where I say, what do you think the solution is, then she actually has to check in with herself and think, like, wait, what do I think the solution is? And that's building her own sense of self-trust. And then when she has agency and she does make. a good choice that affirms like, oh, I'm going to be capable of handling things and figuring things out in life. And that's what we actually want for our kids. It's just an incredible

skill set to be able to learn to handle it on your own and allowing your kids to make decisions and just, you know, that you're there for them, but allow them to have that, to feel empowered. We put so much fear on girls. Like, we're so scared all the time of something going wrong or them doing something wrong. So instead they absorb that fear, which completely prevents that, that self-trust of checking in with themselves and being like, wait, no, I can come up with a solution for this. So is this anxiety and fear, you know, all the headlines that we see are like, girls are struggling. They're having mental health issues or so many challenges.

You literally, we see these headlines every day. Is this really as big of a problem? What do we do to shift this? Yeah, I mean, the main thing I see, you know, a lot of people talk about social media, and we can talk about that for sure. But I actually see a much larger narrative of pressure put on them to be perfect and to be likable at all times. And it's, again, how they should act, what they should look like.

It's all these shoulds that create the anxiety because people are imperfect, right? No one's perfect. And so we're asking them to be perfect, which is impossible. So, of course, I would put anyone in a state of anxiety. What would you share then how we get them to thrive right now? So I love creating room for mistakes and flaws and these things that, you know, seem so scary, but I love to reframe them as that's the growth area, you know, When they do something wrong, it's not the end of the world.

They don't need to absorb it into their entire core identity. And I see that with boys. When boys make mistakes, it's no big deal. Like, whatever. We have to talk about boys, too, right? So boys are like, we let them fall down. We let them make all the mistakes. Yeah, they're messy.

Meanwhile, when a girl makes a mistake, she completely absorbs it into her identity. Like, she's done something terrible. And then we carry this. It couldn't help in reading your book, something that we all realized the origin story, right? It was all happening. We were younger. and now as adults, a lot of us struggle with a lot of the same things. Perfection of business is a big great one.

It's a big one. Yeah. Perfection and people pleasing, I would say, are two huge wounds that happen in your teenage years that women for sure carry into adulthood. I would like to say I'm recovering people pleaser, but what are some of the ways that you work with them on people pleasing and how does it show up? So a lot of people pleasing is about putting other people's needs before your own. And it's real subtle.

even when a girl responds like, it's fine, or women, you know, oh, it's fine, it's fine, and it's not fine. It's not fine. Like, I usually ask more questions and they tell me this horrible story and I have to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not fine. That's not okay. Just the fact that she would even try to put up that front is her just trying to tell me like, it's cool, I got it handled, like, don't worry about me because she's trying to be perfect and likable. And when I say it's not fine and say, hey, we can hold some space for you just feeling awful about this for a second, because that's That sucks. Then she gets a moment, first to process, and then also just check in and I say, what can I do to support you right now? You know, what do you need right now? And lots of times that's a very foreign thing for them to hear. No one's ever asked them, right? Right.

So when I say, how can I support you right now? You know, a girl, when you first start this, they might be like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. And I'm like, okay, then let's sit with it for a sec. I trust that you're going to figure it out, like check in with yourself. What is it that you need right now? What do they say? That's a practice too for them, right, to really be.

be in touch with what they need. And it's not something that's happening in their life at all because they're putting other people's needs before they're up, which is what we all women do. We all do that. Now, what about we put everyone in front of us because we want to be liked, we want to be loved, we want people to accept us, and then we have all these pressure from our parents or whoever, yeah, it's tied into the perfectionism and the people-pleasing. But, I mean, I just couldn't help but draw these parallels into something that we all talk

about even in our adult lives was about, I was surprised to hear that teenage girls think that making themselves happy is selfish and it's so relatable because again, I don't think that changes that much as we get older too. I'm still this productivity culture. We have to always be doing stuff, getting shit done, putting ourselves first, feel selfish. I guess my vision, not that my childhood wasn't like that, but I feel like I guess I put it out other girls that they're happy. like they feel good doing things for themselves and putting themselves first. But no, and I say in the book, you know, when I asked one girl to name the adjective for women and she said selfless when she's like, well, I don't know if that's a good thing, though.

And I was like, yeah, you're right. It's not in this idea of martyrdom, you know, female martyrdom for so long, whether it shows up in motherhood or shows up in the workplace where they're always taking on more work in the workplace. And this idea that women are cocky or have a big ego, also, parallels this idea of them being selfish. And teenage girls told me over and over and over again how much they feel society, parents, every adult is just like, well, don't get an ego, don't get cocky. Like, that's not an issue. Women's egos is not like a big issue in the world. If anything, our issue is that we're not taking up space. We're not owning our power. We're not owning our

voice. And we're always trying to kind of minimize and make sure everyone around us is doing okay. What do they bring up to you about their sexuality and their sex lives? How are you going to talk about that. Yeah. So, you know, I have a whole sexuality chapter, which has a little bit of a story arc to it, if you will, because, you know, I start in the realm of sexual violence because it is something that really affects their life because they write from dress codes, right? It's a huge narrative in their life that they need to be responsible for a boy's inclinations, that it's on their shoulders and they are going to be blamed. And girls tell me that over and over. And then also just the gender double standard of it all, that boys very much permission

to seek pleasure and the media tells them that's a cool thing to do. And that is not something girls are permissioned at all. And they're annoyed by it. They don't know how to explore their sexuality in a safe way because they can't do anything right. Either they're posting too sexy of a selfie on social media or they're just completely repressed and can't even talk about anything because it's so scary because everyone's pushing so much fear on them. And those are the two, you know, there's so many extremes. And there's not any just loving, non-judgmental space to let a girl explore. Because it is so scary out there now, too. You talk about it in the book, too, about the gun girl's photo and the mom comes in, like, what's his photo on Instagram? You're so

sexy. Like, take it down. It's too sexy. And then there's that whole argument. Like, and I've also have friends who have daughters like, what do I do with my daughters going out in this crop top and she's wearing this short skirt? Like, how do you not shame them? But also, So let them know that the world isn't always safe. Yeah, I include them into the conversation with questions. And I say, hey, why do you want to wear this? Like, how does it make you feel? What part of yourself are you exploring right now?

Because when I actually approach it seeking to understand her first and what she's trying to express, then she feels understood. There's a conversation she feels respected. And the girls are mature enough to have those types of conversations. And that's when sometimes either I shift my point of view about it or she does, but at least we're starting from a tone of curiosity rather than shame and judgment. What the girls kind of wish, too, is that we were doing this high-level type of stuff for the boys, right?

Like, sexual violence is actually a male violence issue. You know, if women and girls could have stopped gender-based violence, we would have done it by now, right? It's actually men who need to look at to understand. Yeah, and I will say, too, I mean, there's only 11 states. that teach in their sex education curriculum, consent. 11 states only teach consent. So, of course, that explains a lot why boys are also very confused and maybe don't know

how to handle this that well. So what if we looked at educating boys on what is healthy manhood, you know, what is respecting a girl? And also him owning and taking responsibility for his own, you know, inclinations as well. So we talked a little bit about how we don't have a lot of enough sex education out there that's accurate and informative and teaches consent. But you also cover the book, too, like there's so much, another side of it is that then there's also a lot of slut shaming that always goes on.

You talk about how the girls describe it. So what's going on with slut shaming still and how do we change the narrative around it? Oh my gosh, slut shaming is a huge issue that the girls bring up themselves. I mean, it's my most popular video I've ever made is my slut shaming video on TikTok. I like completely went so big because the girls are like, yeah, oh my gosh. And they're just sharing their stories about how it happens to them. and how, you know, her brother's friends told her her skirt was so short and she's a slut when she's like 12 years old, right?

And how then she's like sharing in the comments and now I haven't worn a skirt for five years, like really sad things. And again, it's kind of back to that. Again, trying to control their outfits as much as apparent things are protecting her, it's usually a communication of shame is what actually happens. When you comment in a judgy way on a girl's clothes, she is going to receive it as shame. And it's surprising how easily people throw around the words of like, well, you look like a tramp, you know, you look like a slut, like as if it's no big deal. And a girl is like, what?

And the truth is, I would love for them to feel sexually empowered in a way, but there's no word for a sexually empowered teenage girl. That word doesn't exist, right? So we just got a slut. That's the only word that's around. Women have tried to reclaim that word. There's been so many things that we've tried to deal with this. but for a teenage girl hearing it, it's like a laceration that sticks with her. It's true.

It just kind of builds on the whole notion that, like, what we would need to do is say, like, explain to boys too, right? So what it actually means and what sexuality means and, like, when they make those comments, how it makes a girl feel and then telling the girls, like, because how do you talk about the outfits? Like, that's the one thing. It's like we're trying to protect them. But in protecting them, we're shaming them.

So. Well, yeah. And I would say, instead of thinking you have the duty to protect them, you help her understand how to protect herself. And so that's why I always say with the questions, like, well, why do you want to wear that? How does it make you feel? Like, so she can gain understanding. But if I say, it makes you feel sexy.

It makes me feel hot. By the way, what's wrong with that, right? Like a girl feeling sexy and having a little bit of space to explore that identity and personality, right? And if you are so worried about protecting her, go focus on boys. I personally am on the board of a nonprofit called A Call to Men that's all about healthy manhood and teaching boys and men what healthy masculinity is that when girls started telling me their sexual assault stories, their slut-shaming stories,

that's what I went and did. I didn't say, oh, well, you better change your outfit, you know, because I got to protect you. Instead, I went to the source of the issue of... What do the boys have to say? Well, I got to say, too, Genzi is exciting. There are changes with Genzi. Yeah, the boys are way...

totally having more space for sensitivity. And I mean, I had a boy one time I was working with who had this t-shirt on and we were, it was via Zoom that I was tutoring him. And the t-shirt said the future is female, but I hadn't noticed it yet. And he was like, Chelsea, he didn't see my shirt. And I was like, oh. And he just like was so wanted to share with me that he was a feminist now. And I was just like, I love you, Gen Z. I love you so much. The boys are evolving. You know, it's, I, there's, you know, there's frustrations with it. And we could expand them on that forever. But yes, teaching a boy not to call a girl a slut would sounds like a good starting point for me rather than, hey, let me protect you by shaming you on your clothes.

Right. But I guess we understand why parents do it or why people do that is because they're not safe because of this rape statistics and sexual assault and all the things. So it's like really hard as a parent. Well, I find that when girls actually know this. So I do a lot of this actually. I teach girls the actual statistics around sexual violence. I help them feel educated about the situation rather than fear, fear, fear, fear. And so when I teach girls about the actual statistics, one in five, on a college of campus,

they don't like, you know, fall apart and are like, oh, my God, I'm going to, this is, this is going to happen to be. No, they're empowered. They're like, I have girls starting programs on their college campuses to create change because they're like, wait, this is an issue. I can be a part of the solution rather than you just need to be scared all the time. Yeah. No, I love that. And I love the change with parents, too. You talk about how you parents need to support their girls. And this is so much fear. I didn't realize how much fear the girls were holding on to about that, that it was so prevalent and felt like they weren't being supported from their parents or from their. Oh, yeah. It's always like a debate that they almost have to prove. For some reason, parents will be like, oh, well, you got to deal with it though. You know, it's like, buck up. This is just the way it is. And the girls are like, wait, but, you know, there's a quote in the book where the girl's like, go deal with your boys.

Like, stop putting this on my shoulders. I can't solve this by myself. You know, they want to feel like you are on her team. But when they say, like, buck up, deal with it. You're on the boys' team of just letting them continue on like this. You know, the girl, and again, in that same quote, she's like, I feel like there's so much education of teaching girls how not to get raped, but there's no education on teaching boys, like not to rape in the first place.

There really isn't, is there? What about with your call to men? Is there anything that you come up there? Oh, yeah. They're doing incredible work on engaging men. and boys. I mean, they do it in professional sports leagues, or they do it in middle schools with their curriculum. I mean, they're engaging boys and men in the best way. What do you think that the boys need to know right now? If you could talk to teenage boys right now, what would

you think are the best top things that we would need to know? For me, my experience with boys has been, again, back to just naming a feeling. You know, boys are allowed to feel one, well, it's different though. Boys are allowed to feel one feeling, anger. And anger is taking the place of things like sadness and hurt, you know, it's that whole like, they can't cry. There's such a toxic masculinity box that they feel like they need to fit in. And I don't think masculinity is actually toxic. Like there's a healthy masculinity that exists. But the constructs of it and society are so restricting for boys.

So when I give them permission, oftentimes I'm just, we'll be like, hey, well, how do you feel right now? And they look at me. Like, that is the first time. Anyone has ever asked them that. And then they have no vocabulary around it. They're just like, uh, bad. And I'm like, okay, let's get out the feelings wheel, right? And when they get a little more specific and they develop a feelings vocabulary and that that

permission them to actually voice their emotions, that's going to change the world. Truly. What about girls in their anatomy? What do they know? Well, so I love teaching girls that part of their body is actually a vulva and not a vagina. Or vagina is a specific part of it. And that blows their mind up. They have no idea that the word vulva even exists, right?

and it's so empowering for them. I have a girl that just messaged me like a month ago. I was like, I'm teaching all my friends on my college campus, you know, the difference between Volta and Vigina, and we're all saying it right now. And just, again, knowing their own anatomy helps them feel connected to it and empowered with it. That's all this is about helping women to feel more connected to their bodies because from such a young age as we're seeing it, like they're just disconnected, shamed, right? Not people's needs before their own.

Yeah. Trying to fit in the normal box. Yeah. All of this is keeping them from having the sex life and the relationships that they deserve. Yeah, exactly. So how would you say that people pleasing and perfectionism ties into sexuality for the girls? So. And for all of us.

Perfectionism is that kind of almost like performative of I'm going to look like this and be pretty or sexy this ways. And then they'll like me because that's the perfect look that, you know, is desired. And then on the people pleasing front, again, it's that performative, like putting someone else's needs of like, how can I make them happy? And there's not any focus on, like, what is my pleasure? What would light me up? And it doesn't even have to be sexual pleasure. It could be anything that lights them up. We just don't talk to them about pleasure at all.

Yeah. Oh, gosh, that word? Oh, my gosh. And the work that I have done, you know, words like STD and rape and pregnancy, those are scary words. But I will tell you that clitoris, orgasm, and pleasure have been way scarier words for people. So these girls. So what do they know about sexuality right now?

What do you find that they go? Well, and it's not scary for the girls. I mean, like, for parents. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I know that's the problem with parents. So parents come to you and say, like, what do I do or how do I talk to them about it? What happens?

Sure. I mean, I'm usually more in the trenches with the girls. But, yes, there have definitely been parents. When I try to educate on these kind of things like clitoris or orgasm, I come at it first from a just knowing your own anatomy, right? Like, teaching a girl, like their anatomy of a clitoris, like, that's actually can be a very factual academic arena that is incredibly empowering because they don't know. When a girl knows her own anatomy, she feels.

feels way more confident in her own body. She's going to be like, oh, that's like a place of pleasure if I understand it better. And instead, we all just kind of hide and repress and don't even use that word because it's this quote unquote scary word and why? Why? Why is it so scary for girls? I know. And for the parents, that's the thing is that the parents really struggle and it's so important. And that's sort of a theme of everything here is that so much of our own struggles we're putting on our kids, we're afraid to talk about it, right? So we have so much that comes up for us. Like, I can't talk to my kids about sex because I'm still struggling with my own shame and my own trauma.

Exactly. And so when parents come to me, like you said, actually, when the parents ask me, when they're so uncomfortable, the first thing I say to them, I'm like, well, why are you uncomfortable to talk about these things? Go figure that out first. Go figure out why you're uncomfortable and then deal with those triggers you have because then you'll be able to come to the girl with that open-hearted, genuinely curious, non-judgmental energy that she'll respond to.

Shame is a huge theme too, right? I'm just thinking about parents who talk about it because they have their own shame. I mean, it really does permeate everything we do. I realize I always think that shame is one of the biggest killers of our sex drive, our sex lives. How have you work with them around? It all seems to tie into shame right now. So shame I found, you know, I have a whole chapter entitled shame. It's about speaking it out loud. It's literally just the act of sharing and speaking out loud what you're scared of saying out loud with anyone who feels trusted and you know we'll be met with love. And that's all that usually needs to happen. You don't need to fix anything. And once you just have a person receive you and meet you and you don't feel so alone in that, it dissipates. You say the things that you think you cannot say. Yeah, exactly. And that was the power of the Me Too movement, right? When all these women started saying Me Too, all the women were like, wait, right, we're not alone. We're not alone. And there was a huge healing effect that that had. So I was reflecting on our. journey when I was reading the book and how we met. And I remember that when we met a few years

ago, was that when we first met? Four years? On our journey, four years ago on our journey. We both were going through a lot. But I was thinking about your journey with what was going on with you and how that ties into with your painful sex, which you mentioned in the book. And how that ties into so many different things like people pleasing, not speaking up, thinking that it was okay or overriding your feelings or you want to talk about that journey to you and how it could relate. you're talking about is that I had pain with sex for a very long time, like decades. And I had just not really, no one had kind of said, hey, no, that's not okay. You know, instead, there's a real narrative of just like, yeah, it hurts sometimes. Like, yeah, I mean, I would see a doctor and

they'd be like, oh, if you just had a glass of wine and relax a bit, those are the types of things I would hear. And there's very little medical research about sexual pain and so on, to support women on this journey. And of course, I was a person that was like trying to really explore and figure it out. But so much of it had to do also with just my own reclaiming that this is something I could have in my life and that my story isn't just another woman that shrugs her shoulders and is like, oh, sex is okay, whatever. And that's an empowerment story in and of itself. Yeah. And then the journey that it took you like 10 years of going after it being dismissed. Yeah. And I'm pain-free now, so that's exciting. Yeah, that is exciting,

Charles. I mean, I think that story is so relatable too because so many of us do struggle with it and women don't find the answers. I think it's just another way that women accept I'm not going to have orgasms. I'm not going to have pleasure. I'll just suffer through painful sex. I guess I'll have like painful periods, painful childbirth and painful sex, right? So, you know, just another way that women give up their power and their right to pleasure. Exactly. And so it's such a great example of how you're you were like, no, I'm going to keep going. I'm going to talk to every what I can to get to the bottom of this. We'll be right back with more Chelsea Gooden after this message from our sponsor. Don't go away.

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honestly, your whole body will thank you. What about the conversations that the girls are having with each other? You also have a chapter on friends, which of friends we know as teenage girls. It's so important, although I've also realized that I've gotten older, it still is one of the most important thing and our relationships. How are their friendships? Like, what are we seeing? Are they healthy, not healthy? Are they recognizing, like, do you think they're getting more toxic? Have you seen the friendships change over time with social media and media and that they're less connected? They're spending less time together because of the phones. Like, what have you seen over? It's interesting. I have seen actually a beautiful narrative change, which is, you know,

back in the day, there was a real one seat at the table for the woman at the boardroom table. of the job and we were all competing for it. And so it was very women against women culture for a long time. And Gen Z is changing it. They are way more of a girl supporting girls, women supporting women. They don't really understand why everyone is competitive in that way. And, you know, a lot of people complain about girls taking each other down on social media, but I see way more of the opposite of them just amping each other up in the comments. I mean, they do it to me. They're just like, you go, girl, you got this. Like, they don't believe there's a limited amount of success for women in the way that we did, that they really do believe there's

enough for all of us. Yeah. I love that change. I've seen that too. It's really helpful because I still think that's an old trope. Sometimes I think it's sort of, it's more men. So I've always been very avoided of any toxic friendships. I feel like it's so important to me, you feel safe in friendships. And I think that our friendship, a lot of our friends are like that. But this whole notion, I feel like I hear from men more often. They're like, oh, well, women always want to take each other down. But I personally haven't experienced that as much. Maybe I avoid it, but what you're saying is, I know it's out there, but you're seeing this shift in all these years that you feel like they're not as jealous. It's not as petty. It's not as

gossip and toxic. Well, there's still like, yeah, there's still bullying moments. Oh, but this is another shift. Is this, this generation so good with mental health and psychology, they're really into those topics. And so when I, when there is a mean girl situation, I will often ask the girl, well, what do you think that bully, you know, what do you think her home life is like? you know, what are her parents like? And she'll often know and she'll be like, oh, well, her mom criticizes her a lot. I know her dad's never around. And I'm like, wow, does that sound hard? Like, how do you think she handles that? And do you think she might be in pain about that? And then the girl's like, oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, like, that sounds really

hard. I feel bad for her. Like, they come at it with compassion. They really understand things much more compassionately through a psychology lens. And I love that, too, about this generation. That's so, it is. They are more into the psychology. It's true. I love that it's so much more available right now. Say what you want about social media, but if they're on TikTok watching about mental. Exactly. I love it. I know. They, and they have learned, honestly, so much from a psychology-oriented infographic on social media. I have girls talking to me about their different trauma responses. I mean, I didn't know about that stuff when I was 16. I've had a girl talk to me about her mother wound. Again, I know women friends in their 40s are just

learning about their mother wound. Like, this is exciting. It's exciting. That's a parallel that I'm seeing and reading all of us. I'm like, this is what we need to, like, we are still our teenage girls. Like, a lot of us carry around our inner child and the stuff that we haven't healed. So it really makes you think, like, if we are still adult woman and we are challenged by this stuff, you know, we have to, we all have a lot of work to do, but we can reflect that back and even being honest. Like, I love in your book, too, you also mentioned the girls, like, I've struggled with this too, and this is where I'm at. So I think that's why they also, you know, really trust to you. I feel like my inner teenage girl did like a lot of growing up through this

process too in reading the book. So it was really, really helpful. What about you? Like, what have you learned in these last years? How is your interteach girl grown? Certainly, it's exactly what you're saying. Like the journey of writing this has been healing my own inner teenager. And I hope to give that to everyone. You don't have to have a teenage girl in your life to feel that from this book. And I've been giving these girls something that I didn't have at their age. And it's this beautiful healing process that has happened. And, you know, to bring back your question about kind of men, putting that narrative. of like, oh, women tearing each other apart, we can also make a choice collectively.

Like, I'm also trying to give energy to this narrative of girls and women supporting each other because the more we sit around complaining about women tearing each other apart, that's what's going to continue. That cycle's going to continue. And a lot of what I'm trying to do with this book is break cycles, break patterns that we have had in the narrative of women. And now it's changing. We can change it with this new, beautiful, wonderful group of girls.

Oh, my God. So how do you work with women also, these young girls, on breaking some of the patterns? We've talked about some of the people pleasing. And the other thing that came up, so many girls say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry all the time. I remember I had a year where I was trying to, like with my team. It was a few years ago, I was like, I'm not going to say I'm sorry. And if I say, and then I'd go, sorry, not sorry, like in public, with people in full-on

meetings, I'd be on, and I was like, sorry, not sorry. What is that tied into? How do we stop that? It's so harmful. And you never hear guys saying that. I mean, I'll do actually very practical types of tips where we have accountability with each other because I was doing it too and then I would do accountability with a girl where I'd be like, okay, if you say it or if I say it, let's just gently be like, hey, you don't have to apologize

for this, you don't have to say sorry and just bring it into your awareness. Literally the first step is just an awareness. I've also had girls even have a tally on their phone where they make a tally every time they say it and then they come back to me a week later completely and not really horrified. They're just like, wait, I had no idea I was saying it like a hundred times a day because you say it, really mechanically, you know, automatically and I don't have awareness around it. So a lot of times just breaking a pattern as first as the awareness and the intention to do it. And a lot of it is, you know, there's a liberation that happens when we start breaking out of these patterns

and connecting to our authentic self. Like, what do I actually authentically think right now or feel right now? And instead of just working on autopilot. Yeah, I guess that's all tied to the shame too, right? The sorry that I'm doing something wrong and that I'm not perfect. So tying to our emotions. I love that you have the feelings wheel in your book. I have feelings wheel all over my house. Do you feel like a lot of what you do is you're trying to get them just to feel, right? Because all this stuff, the people pleasing and the power struggles and the perfectionism is like a way of also keeping us from really feeling, right? Feeling our true. 100%. And also feeling, quote unquote, negative feelings or displeasing or hard feelings. That's where girls don't

feel like their space for that and that it's bad if they do. So if they feel frustrated, or angry or disappointed, which are normal, totally normal human emotions, but we don't give any space for girls to have that. It's so uncomfortable. And certainly for a parent watching a girl have feelings like that, you don't want to see your daughter in pain, so you want to be quick to come in and solve it for them. But actually, there's something really valuable about sitting with her feeling, naming it, because then that's how it processes and releases.

There's so much to release. Learn. It's so much learning about feelings. It takes 90 seconds to experience emotions. if you feel like a feeling. So if you think it's just like all the stuff that's trapped at our body that we were never. Like I just remember like you read your book, I had so many like flashbacks. Like when I was a kid, I was like, my mom's always like, you are, she still says this,

which is harmful. I'm now I'm realizing. But like when you were 15, you were the worst. You were the worst. Like she still talks about like, oh, you at 15 being your mom at 15. And I just realized that it's just so unfair. You know, I was like slamming doors and angry. And then I thought like I was such a bad person and all that.

There was no room to feel. There was no room to. But I guess like your hope with this book, like what is your hope that, you know, we're going to get out there. How do we get this out to people? Yeah. I mean, a lot of it is the only thing in your control is yourself. And that's where the change begins is when you start making different choices for yourself. And then that will have a healing effect on to the teenage girls in your life, without a doubt. But it's so heady and so challenging is because so many of us haven't done our own work, right, on ourselves. So then you've got, I find this with the

sex conversation, which that's the main question I get from parents is like, what do I do? How do I talk to them about it, but then going back to what we said earlier, they haven't yet healed themselves. And so you're like, you're like one person doing this work, but it's almost like, and we've talked about this. Like there needs to be some kind of like global healing for like parents, children, everyone together to learn because we never, we never had the training, right? I know. And I have total compassion. A parent will have triggers trying to come to her daughter to talk about sex when she's all triggered and figuring it out herself. Yeah, we need a huge collective healing around this. And I genuinely believe like helping to heal.

this brokenness that we have around these conversations will help liberate women in general when we can step into this type of all types of power, including sexual power, in a healthy way that feels really founded in authenticity. That's when it's going to be really exciting for women. That's it. We're doing it. This is the start. So what would you say that you learn the most about your own self, like your own sexuality, like any reflections in the girls that you've seen in yourself and your own struggles? Yeah, I think I just didn't, there was so much I didn't know. I didn't have a sex education, right?

Right. And so I'm really passionate about just basic sex education, which we know is just abysmal in the United States, and just trying to give them access to just even basics. But I would love, obviously, next level, pleasure-focused education on how does a girl actually even pursue or begin to understand what she might like or who she is in this space and where identity is in the space. We're still struggling with that, right? Still not a lot of information.

Curiosity, listening, compassion, slowing down. God, WikiDahl uses in our personal relationships, too, right? Not just with young girls. Exactly. So, like, the skills that we all need to learn. What are you hearing from them most? Like, if you had to say, like, these are the biggest challenges that they're having right now with their sex lives and their sexuality, are there themes that you're like,

the every girl's asked me that? And also how has it changed? So what are the main things coming on? It's funny. The girls are much more evolved, but they feel like they're still playing into the performative male gaze of it all. And but by the way, also, girls these days identify on the LGBTQ spectrum in a way than ever before in history, which has been really actually a cool shift because now they're stepping into a territory that doesn't have societal definitions and boundaries. And so there has been this much bigger exploration of, of pansexual, bisexual, queer, and that feels liberating to them to not be put in some box, you know, not the old story of I got to perform a be sexy for this boy. So they feel that pressure and they're kind of trying to fight it. They still get sucked into it.

But there's also this really cool expansion that I see happening right now that I'm trying to affirm for them as well. So about this expansion, it's like there's a lot of pushback too from parents who just don't understand and think, well, you shouldn't be talking to my daughter at eight years old about her gender identity. She doesn't have those feelings that she doesn't know yet. And so there's a lot of pushback. I'm with you on like I love that giving them options and not putting them into a box. Like if you're a girl, you have to like a boy. But what kind of things are you hearing girls in their exploration about this? Yeah. Well, and you have to be really conscious

of your language too with a girl. Like I always make sure I use the word crush. Because think how young you start being like, are you like any boys? We say that so young to them. Meanwhile, you know, the average age of coming out is now looking, there's not a set statistic, but it's looking like it's about 14. We came from a generation where it was so much older. And so we're experiencing something that's quite different and profound. If kids come out earlier, what does that look like? How does their life look different? It's funny how we'll tell a little girl, like, who's your boyfriend at school? Who do you? And we have no problem doing that. But then when a girl comes out at 14, everyone's like, oh, whoa. I mean, does she know her sexuality well enough? You know, I don't know

she knows yet. And it's like, oh, wait, no, that's actually puberty when she actually is experiencing these types of feelings. And why does she need the judgment? Who cares? Like, let her just figure it out. That's what they want. They want it to not be some crazy big deal and the whole thing about it. They just want to have the ease and space to explore. But then as a result, that we are judging when we hear this. Immediately, it's all judging. And that's why we're so negative. We're so hard on ourselves because of all the judgments from society that aren't accepting them, right? Aren't accepting every choice that they make. Yeah. And the last chapter of the book is power, right? And so many of these things we're talking about are disempowering women, starting

so young, teenage girls. And what does the world look like where actually women are stepping into their full authentic power? I mean, that's an exciting vision. I love when you ask about this, too, about like what would it look like with a more feminine type leadership? Yes, exactly. So I had asked the teenage girls, you know, what do you think the world would look like if the majority of the leaders in the world were women? You know, it's a pretty oversimplified question, but I was just so blown away by their answers because they effusively responded with like, oh, there'd be more care, more empathy, more equality, more generosity. I mean, the things they were saying, I mean, whether you agree or not, if women would lead

that way is beside the point. It's what they envisioned for our world had so much more to do with a heart-centered, love-filled leadership style, rather than our leadership that we've had, you know, is a masculine type of solution, which is often domination, oppression, control. status, well, physical domination, these narratives that are just haven't worked for us. They're not working, right? They haven't worked. And we're ready for something new. Child, this is a great start. And I loved all the insights from the girls in the books. Like, they really paint such a great picture of seeing that where they are today. Like,

you get them to really speak these things that speak their truths in ways that, yeah, we don't often know that they're thinking today that they would have said that. They would have had these answers to so many of these questions. They have more depth. They have more insights than we ever give them credit. So I know. We've underestimated. We've underestimated them, Chelsea. Well, you didn't, and you've helped so many women. I know this is going to help everyone out there who has it. Their inner teenage girl, teenage girls in their lives, which I think we pretty much all do.

I think we do. We come across people in our lives, or I think that people are going to see a lot of themselves in this, too, Chels. Well done. Well done, Chelsea. All right, Chelsea, I have a question from a listener, and I love your help in answering it. This is from Kaylee, and she's 27 in Maryland. Hey, Dr. Emily, this is my first time coming across your website, and I love it. it. Thank you for being one of those people that help others when it comes to stuff like

this. The reason I actually came across your podcast was because I'm constantly self-conscious when it comes to having sex. Like I want to be good and I hear you say, do your research, but when it comes to the time, by research, I mean like self-love and self-touch. When it comes to the time to do it, I can't get out of my head and I don't 100% enjoy sex. I get nervous and anxious and it kills the vibe. My last relationship was a couple years. I hooked up with one other person since then, but it's almost been a year and a half since I've had sex now. And obviously I'm scared to get back into the game. What would you recommend from somebody who is constantly nervous that they're not good enough, not fit enough to have sex and be confident with it?

I'm sorry to go to the gym, trying to be healthy. But mentally, I don't know where to start. Anxiety is one of the biggest killers of our sex drive and shame. And I think that this whole notion that people often have this same thing where they are constantly comparing themselves to others, thinking that they should be better in bad than they already are. And I just want to tell women, like a lot of the work starts with knowing our bodies, knowing what feels good to us, being able to communicate that to a partner eventually, but really when we learn to give ourselves pleasure, a lot of things do melt away because then we're not in our heads, worrying if we're good enough, worrying, you know, if we're doing it right, comparing

our partner. So what would you say here? So I would say this interestingly lands in my identity chapter, which is about authenticity. And the more that you can start getting a girl connected to what just lights her up, truly connects to her from deeply within, what makes her happy. And I'm going to lean into even the word weird. Like what makes her weird? What makes her unique? And I say weird in a really positive way, but I say it because it actually often triggers like, well, I'm weird in this way. And when you, because what you were just saying is how we're always comparing ourselves to everybody else. We're trying to do the right thing. And it's the standard that is just not possible because it's nebulous. And the only thing you're actually going to like is

when you truly connect with yourself. So what does that look like? It happens in really small moments when you authentically decide to be like, well, do I like that or do I not like that? It could be, I mean, it comes back to people pleasing, but it could be like, you're throwing a dinner party and you want everyone to be happy, so you do like 10 different dishes, but do you want to do that? Are you talking to me? Maybe. I try to have enough food for everyone.

No, it's so sweet. But I mean, like, actually check in. Like, what would make me happy? What would make me not feel stressed? You know, what would, what are the three things that light me up and it's like, oh, okay, I'll do these three dishes because that's what it's going to make me. me happy and I'm not going to be so worried about everybody else. I'm just doing a funny side example, how much we abandon our authenticity. Why are people so afraid to be weird? And I think

in our teenage years, girls, everyone wants their kid to be normal. So to go back to Kaylee, it's like I feel like she's still playing out a societal narrative of all these shoulds. And what if she was just like, well, I kind of just one tiny step at a time of like, I weirdly like this. Or I'm kind of into that and just commit to honoring you. yourself and choosing that. Body image and your relationship to your body is so sets its foundations in your teenage years. And think about it how we talk to little girls, right? What is the first thing that we say to them? We're like, oh, man, look how cute you are. Look at that pretty dress you're wearing. The girls learn so early on that what they look like, what they're wearing

is their worth and value. You know, it's all well-intentioned. You're trying to compliment the little girl. But we say to little boys, you know, oh, what's your favorite subject in school? What's your favorite sport? It's still happening. It's so different. And the average age for a girl to go on a diet, like to start dieting, is age eight. No. Yeah. And from age eight to 14, their confidence plummet, 30 percent, whereas boys it doesn't. So obviously something's happening during those years.

And so one, again, trying to keep it practical with tips. I often tell, like, the women and moms and girls' lives, teenage girls tell me this, that they are so tired of the women in their lives insulting their own body and beauty in front of them. So they see it with their moms and their caregivers. Yes. And certainly an adult should never honestly comment on a girl's body that is never going to go well and it's always not going to have a good impact. But it's actually more subtle when the mom or the women, the teachers, it could be any woman. It's like, oh, I don't get that in this. Or they're just dieting for years on end. The girls absorb that in a really serious level. And again, I have compassion. These women are all, we're all just victims of the same system. I know the moms have no intended harm on their daughter. But the amount. of teenage girls that have told me that they feel like their relationship to their body would have been different if they hadn't been seeing this woman that was modeled in front of them,

constantly complaining about her looks and body in front of them. Oh, my God. It's so insightful for parents to take a step back. It's almost like all the things that parents are focusing on, yeah, we just don't, they don't want to look at themselves really. It's hard to look at yourself, especially if there's been a pattern. You've always been, and your mom criticized her and her mom was undi-like, how do you, you got to break the cycle, which is what you're trying to do here. I'm going to ask you the five questions that we ask all of our guests. Quicky questions. Ready?

What's your biggest turn on? The brain. Biggest turn off. Complaining. What makes good sex? Creativity and inspiration. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. That it's going to evolve, that you don't have to have it all figured out.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? That your relationship to it is also connected to. your power, your power center. Okay, Chelsea, where can everyone find your book and find you and follow you in all your incredible work? Well, I think following me on Instagram is probably the easiest way to track everything going on, which is just at Chelsea Gooden. And you can buy the book wherever books are sold.

I'm also going on a book tour all throughout March so you can look on my Instagram and see all the different locations. I'd love to meet you. Yeah, all those things. Cool. Thank you. Thank you, Chelsea, for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and the wisdom of teenage girls.

Appreciate you so much. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for listening to Sex with Emily. And if you love the show, please like, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you get your podcast. And hey, share this with a friend or a partner. It might just spark something. It usually does.

You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and access. It's all at Sex with Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sex withemly.com for free guides and articles and more ways to prioritize your pleasure.