Sex With Emily - Research Is Me-Search With Dr. Will Siu

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

You know how I always say “research is me-search”? My guest, psychiatrist and psychedelics expert Dr. Will Siu, shares how he reframed his religious upbringing, released anger and went even deeper with therapeutic psychedelics. Will also shares how to get past some common insecurities—like penis size.For more information about Will Siu, visit: WillSiuMD.comFor even more sex advice, tips, and tricks visit sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And so he told me he's like, well, he's like, you're not getting angry because you're tough. He's like, you're getting angry because you feel weak. Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Betrubized, they call them in a bygone day. You're listening to Sex with Emily.

I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. My guest today is Dr. Will Sue. He's a psychiatrist, a speaker, and expert on psychedelics. He's been featured on the Netflix show The Goop Lab, and he's been trained by maps and MDMA assisted psychotherapy. Will is from California, and he completed med school UCLA, then he went to Harvard Medical School, McGlean Hospital in Boston, and now he started his own private practice right here in Los Angeles. You know how I always say research, his research, the work that we do on ourselves and forms our work, well, Will draws on his personal experiences in his work. We talk about his journey to getting in

touch with his emotions by reframing his religious upbringing, talks about getting vulnerable and using therapeutic psychedelics. We'll also give the specific steps for actually feeling your emotions, starting with just simply identifying them, acknowledging them, where do they live in my body, where am I feeling it? Because once you get in touch with those feelings,

it's a lot easier to see what's going on underneath them. All right, intentions with them, Lee. For each show, I start off by setting an intention and I'd love you to join me in doing the same. So what I mean is, right now, when you're listening, what do you want to get out of this episode? How could it help you? It could be, I really want to figure out these anger issues and let them go. Well, my intention is to set you on the path or maybe get you back on the path to accepting,

expressing and working through your emotions. All right, enjoy the show. Well, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. I'm excited to have you. We talk a lot on this show about just men getting more in touch with their emotions, not being afraid to deal with anger. We actually had a caller last week who said, I've been married for 20 years, and my wife said to me, I want you to be more emotionally available, can you help me?

And I was like, I'm not your therapist, but we can start on the journey. And so I love Will that you're so open. You know, maybe you could just tell me about yourself and your journey. We can start there well. Thanks for being here. Yeah, great. Thanks for that introduction. I guess me in a nutshell I'm 40 years old and so 32 was sort of my second big mental health crisis that I would say you know I was at Harvard at

that time I had gone to medical school at UCLA I went to Oxford to get my PhD and the only reason I mentioned these things is because like the external, I had said, oh, I had accomplished all the things that I thought would make me happy. And then I'm like, wait, what am I doing? I'm miserable. And I was really just like, what do I do now? And at that time, I showed this photo

to the producers before, but this is me around that time. So it was like, no. OK, will is it? Yeah, it's like me. Yeah, I mean So it was like, No. Okay, well, is it? Yeah, it's like me. Yeah, I mean, I was just, I was just not me, you know, and I had created this shell of a person and the things that I wanted to accomplish

and what I thought would make me happy. And I was miserable. And so I think like a lot of people, I just started then, I mean, well, maybe not like a lot of people. And I actually started looking at like, like what got me into this position and what do I do to make me happy?

And so yeah, I just took a long look at life, and at that time, even though I work with psychedelics, now that's most of what I talk about publicly. But at 32, I had never tried a psychedelic. I had only smoked pot like five times in my life. I had been raised Jehovah's Witness, and so I was terrified of drugs. I thought they were, you know, these things that were gonna to take me to hell and they were the devil's work.

And then even though I left the church when I was relatively young in my teens, you know, the lesson stayed with me. And, you know, and then the war on drugs in the 80s and say no. And so I was of the mindset up until 32 that psychedelics were addictive and they were dangerous. And so it was sort of synchronicity, long story short, that a childhood best friend had ended up getting introduced to a psychedelic called DMT. And I like fought even learning more about it. But eventually he was like,

will he's like, they used to do research on these in the 50s and 60s. And they found that one of them is made in the human brain. And that was like, finally, after months, I was like, this is interesting. What's this all about? I was like, literally life changing. I found this all about? I was like literally life changing. I found like these papers in the best scientific journals

from that time, and I'm like, wait, is the government not always telling us the truth? Is there something that behind this? And so, you know, within a few months of that, I tried my first psychedelic, and it was life changing. And, you know, I just started seeing the bigger picture and finding meaning, I think, is the most important thing. You were actually what we a lot of us talk about

is we always think, well, I'll be happy in the future. Once I get this job, once I make this much money, once I get the home, the house, the wife, the whole thing, then I can be happy, which is, and then a lot of us do that, we work, we work, and then we look up, we go, wait, okay, what is it about? Who am I? What actually makes me happy?

So you had that kind of wake up call, you were saying at 32, after being raised, your hova's witness, so not only were they say no to drugs, I'm curious what you heard about sex growing up. Is that also something that was taboo? Because I know a lot of our listeners too grow up in very religious homes where sex is restricted and wait till marriage, don't masturbate, don't you know, we don't have to get into that. I mean, just talking about the mess, I don't know much about- No, I mean, it totally, like that, that's what it was.

It was evil, it's the work of the devil, you shouldn't have sex before marriage. But it was this thing that was confusing because I was like so unhappy and felt so suppressed in other parts of my life. And I was like, oh my God, I discovered this thing about me, but intense, intense guilt. But I think in some ways, I still carry some of that trauma in my body now. I've done a lot of work around sex in the last few years in therapy, but I definitely still have the memory of that in my body sometimes. And so it's still something that I work through. And so how do you start working through the guilt?

Because I do believe that a lot of you, we still carry the messages that we heard as a travel around sex. What is the first step for releasing that guilt and shame around sex? Yeah, one of the things I thought that was interesting as I was thinking about the show tonight is that how few people even talk about sex.

If I think that like, if I had to guess, I would be overestimating if I, if in my career, which I'm for it, it hasn't been like a long, long time, but if I said 5% of people of my clients have talked to me about sex, I think I'm overestimating it, and it's really, it's really just something I think that isn't talked about to begin with, and certainly not into the nitty gritty of all, you know, because I sort of think that sex is really almost like a thermometer or a gauge of where we are and where we are in relation to other people. And so I actually have found that for myself at least that I've found a lot of healing around sex, just dealing and working through other insecurities. I think that

we project a ton upon the body. And so I think a lot of work around sex can be done simply by working on insecurities that may not directly relate to sex. But I think there is some things that just stands here, question more directly about sex and guilt. You know, for sure, for me, it's been, you know, this thing about delaying gratification, for instance, in religion, right? It's like, I remember like the last shall be the first. My mind, like, I remember like in church, they always used to say that. So it's okay to suffer. It's okay to not have because the last shall be the first. My mom, like I remember like in church, they always used to say that. So it's okay to suffer.

It's okay to not have because when we die and we go to heaven, we'll have that. So that was part for me that, okay, sort of like with the achievement with career, et cetera. It's like, oh, I'll have that later. I can have that pleasure later. Where I realized, again, like in my early 30s, it was like, no, that there is no later.

I know I just said a lot. No, no, that makes so much sense. And that was sort of like the running theme then, perhaps for everything, for your happiness, for your joy and for sex. It was all later, later, once I achieved all of these things. And then you said, well, you already had school and studying, but then you had your first psychedelic experience,

which sort of was your first step. What was the first experience? It's a psychedelic called DMT, which is the active ingredient in ayahuasca, which probably more people have heard of ayahuasca, but the DMT is becoming relatively well-known. I think probably most interesting about DMT is that when you smoke it,

it's a very powerful, intense experience, which the way I try to describe it to people is pretty much everything that you relate to this reality, meaning time, space, gravity, a body, me, like will, is out the door within 20 to 30 seconds. And it's not like you're standing back and watching this. It's as if all of these things that you have taken completely as a part of your reality are removed. And so it can be a very scary experience.

And so we use the term ego death quite a bit in the psychedelic community. And so if one isn't like properly guided, it can be this like pretty terrifying experience if you're grasping and you're trying to maintain ego. But if you actually break through that phase, it's one of the most beautiful releases that one can have, it's just because all these illusions start to float away. And so for me, it was interesting. It's not often people's first psychedelic, but for me, because I was so scared, to me, it was like, oh, if I can have something that works quick,

and you're sort of back to normal within 30 minutes. And I was like, okay, I can handle anything for 30 minutes. It's like, I said, time goes away too. And it's not like you're aware that time is gone. It's like time ceases to exist. And so it ended up being this beautiful experience. And another thing about me at that time, I would have considered myself atheist.

And so I tell people that literally within 20 minutes, I went from being atheist to a devotee of Shiva. I was just like, there is something greater. And some of the thoughts that I had after coming out were like, I've been there before, it's familiar and it was waiting for me. And so, I've been thinking a lot about this, the concept of meaning and how important that is

for us to be happy that we have purpose, that we have a meaning in life. And I think in many ways our culture right now is suffering from a lack of meaning. Because, you know, just as individuals, we can put these goals in front of us that are really not based in the heart and the soul.

It's like society has done at the societal level. I like to say that psychedelics are making spirituality palatable to the West again. It's giving us, helping us bring meaning to a culture which has really been suffering from the lack of it. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I've experienced psychedelics but never enough therapeutic setting, but I've experienced psychedelics, but never in a therapeutic

setting, but I've had some powerful experiences. How do you think it's changed then, like, if I will at 32 and well at 40 for you, how does that look right now if we look at you? Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel like I continue to peel back layers. And, you know, sometimes it's frustrating, feeling like, oh, we got somewhere and then, you know, there's more to work on, but I actually, on. But I mean, spiritually, we can get into that more deeply if you want. But I think this is why we're here. I think we're here to rediscover ourselves. And it's like through the allusions, getting through. I think that's why we become embodied in human form.

I think that you are absolutely right. That life is about figuring out your purpose and your meeting, what gives you joy, what doesn't work for you. And I do think it's all there. Like it's all there when we're born, who we are. But then we put all these other layers on top of it. And then it's sort of like we're peeling it all back to get back to our essence of who we are.

That is the journey. Beautiful. Yeah. So how, I mean, because I'm always talking on the show that I'm a huge fan of therapy. Like I believe that I will say everybody needs therapy at some point. Like I think that then you will find why you are suffering. It doesn't eradicate it, but you have a good deeper meeting and understanding. So the therapy you do, you often do talk therapy or is it all psychedelic therapy? It's hard to describe because I actually, you know, I had my traditional Western medical

training in psychotherapy, but since the psychedelic work, I found a spiritual teacher, got I had practice in training and breath work and body work and, you know, different, somatic therapies. So I don't know what percentage of what I do in the room with a client anymore is what I actually learned in any of the institutions that I probably 10% if I had to guess. Yeah, no, I believe that.

I'm a person in like six years I think it is. So I mean, it's really about, you know, help people reconnect to themselves and through the resistances around reconnecting, help them bear the pain that's keeping them from that. It's usually shame or fear or sadness of some sort. It's always shaking like those layers. Yeah, peeling back the layers of shaking, getting people so I want to circle back to something very base level because not everyone might be one. It takes like a deluxe they're like, oh god, we're not even talking about that.

I think it's about, I mean, that's part of it. That's an option. And talk to their present option. It's all options. But what about people not actually learning how to feel emotions? The act of just being shut down when you're a kid, you start crying, crying is for, you know, when it's sissy's or, you know, if you're a boy, like, man up.

And even for me, as a woman, my house didn't actually show anger. I never saw anyone angry. I never saw anyone really sad. It was just kind of everyone was out for themselves. And so this whole thing of just, I look at this a lot because I have a lot of listeners who call in. They're just, it's just not clear how to actually feel. We are not given permission to feel.

I know that you've talked about how you've learned to get in touch with anger. And I think that we see that more in the masculine perhaps that anger is sort of a front for a lot of things. But how do you get people to get in touch with anger. And I think that we see that more. And the masculine, perhaps, that anger is sort of a front for a lot of things. But how do you get people to feel things that'll learn to identify feelings? Yes, I mean, a different. Step one is often just getting people to,

like, I build a language around emotion. And I like to use six different emotions as like the basic ones. And to me, those are anger, sadness, fear, shame, joy, and sexual arousal. And I think about like emotions that like a child can feel, right? It's not like jealousy, which is in relation to something else, but those six are basically just like I can feel them and not have a reason to feel them. And very few people actually know how to identify their emotions like when they first come in. Step two is where are you feeling it and how do you

know you're feeling it. So it's often checking with like, all right, says there's something in your chest. Notice what's in your body and there's resistance, but there's also just not awareness in the very beginning. This took a lot, this takes a big chunk of time in the very beginning, but it's after we sort of build in a language around emotions, is that we end up then being able to like work through some of the situations that, um, yeah, we'll lead to those. Yeah, being able to just identify your emotions is something that we're not taught, right?

It's so, I agree that the six is sexual arousal. And that's not in a lot of, I've read some books where it's in there and I think it should be everywhere. Because I think that we don't learn how to do it, but I remember going to a therapist and she said, and I went through a lot, I've talked about this on the show, but I had a lot of trauma growing up and my dad died when I was 19.

And I just felt like I remember feeling the only thing I felt was anxiety. And I were going to a therapist and she said to me, well, where do you feel that in your body? And I was like, I'm out. She's too, I wasn't on my journey yet. I was like, I don't feel any, all I feel is anxiety. Just help me get rid of it. And it wasn't until like, you until like 20 years of different kinds of therapy that I actually was able to unpack all of that.

And so I guess what I want to say people, it's a process of learning to identify all of them. And there's so many different modalities now to do it. But you just got to start. Because I think that I don't know many people who are naturally who are able to deal with all of these things without a little bit of help. Well, I'm glad everyone is unable to do it naturally. I would be broke in looking for work. But I think one of the things that you touched upon earlier is anger. And for me, that was a big, huge part of my life and a big start to my healing because

I think I, like many men, that was my identified emotion for most of my life up until really 30. And, you know, if you ask people that were around me during college, during med school, people I dated, they'd be like, will is angry, will is an asshole, he's a jerk, he's competitive, which I rarely get called that these days. But it was a therapist that I was working with where he was like, one day I was just struggling quite a bit and telling him about the conflicts in the relationship that I had and unlike you, I had anger was almost a constant daily thing, almost every single day in my family.

And so he told me, he's like, well, he's like, you're not getting angry because you're tough. He's like, you're getting angry because you feel weak and he's like, just like two dogs or two peacocks that are getting ready to fight, is like, you puff yourself up to make yourself feel strong but underneath all of that is weakness.

And in that day changed my life completely because I was never able to look at myself in an angry state and feel strong. I was always like, fuck, okay, he's right. Like I'm feeling really insecure right now. So the first few years, it was a painful study, but it was just like, what's under the anger, what's under the anger, what's under the anger. And I developed this method where, to me, it was clear that three of those other emotions I mentioned are underneath them, sadness, fear, shame.

Sadness, fear, shame, equal week, equal not masculine, equal, you're not going to reproduce and be attractive. And to give an example, I look at our politics, right? Like look at, look at the examples of toxic masculinity. Somehow we tolerate it, we verbalize that it's not okay, but we tolerate it everywhere. But if Trump or another person cried, or he had a nervous breakdown,

it was like, I'm really scared of Russia, we both sides would be like, get the fuck out. Like, that's not acceptable, but anger, we tolerate. And so for me, it was just getting underneath every single time, like for years, just like, why am I angry? Is I'm my sad, am I scared, am I ashamed? And back and forth with all three of those. And eventually just started unrooting more and more and more

and more. And then I found that the real masculine and the under that, like the real solidness of there just like not really getting shaken or feeling threatened very much at all. I mean, certainly I still get triggered from time to time. I think those are really the main three that get suppressed and lead to anger. Interesting, I think for you, I think suppressed joy and suppressed arousal, which are the other, I actually think those are also when they're suppressed can lead to anger. I don't actually rarely get to that with clients just because there's so much work to do on the other one, but just because of your show, I actually think a lot of people, if they're not able to express sex, also, I can get angry.

They get angry. It's true. If they can't express it, or they're told to repress it for whatever reason or someone rejects them, it can also come out of anger. I think you're so right. We're going to take a break. I'm here with Dr. Will Su and we'll be right back. We're talking about how to move through anger in all the emotions to have better communication

with your partner, better sex, a lot of us are just stuck in this process and we can help you. So our friend that we spoke of who introduced us, Dr. Jen Fried, is actually on the line to talk to us. Hi, Dr. Jen. We got all these doctors. What's going on, Dr. Jen, you got all these doctors. What's going on, Dr. Jen? I love you both so much. And I have a question, which is, you know, for men,

historically, anger has been seen as powerful. And yes, will I agree with you as a go-to emotion for many men and substitutes for vulnerable ones. But for women, anger's often suppressed, which leads to low arousal or the denial of energy. And I'm wondering what you think about why women are seen as so unattractive when they own their anger. Good question.

This is a good question. I mean, I don't know. You guys probably have a better guess, but I would assume it's because we want women to be submissive and behave well and to be kind of dainty and cute, I would assume it's because we want women to be submissive and behave well and to be kind of dainty and cute, I would imagine. So, yeah, I think of just suppressing emotions in general in the different genders is not a good idea. But I think, yeah, the judgment is in a different form depending on the gender, for sure. But what do you think of it? Yeah, no, I think you're right, that typically, and I guess why it's so hard these days to be like, gender is all men

or this and all women or this, which is not true at all. But we can talk about the stereotypes are typically women. Yeah, we're supposed to be seen and not heard and be the perfect partner, the perfect wife, everything. You know, look, great. Let's go back to the picture. Okay. Two, a fearing feminine energy, fearing women in all their emotions.

And so I think that we're so skewed the way we actually look at all genders, all emotions. We don't understand any of it, but I think that women aren't supposed to be pleasant and smile through the pain and we can handle anything. And anger is just scary. I think that a angry woman is terrifying for many people. And that's just because we're not used to it. We don't want it. And underneath that is that we repress all female sexuality.

So I think the years of repression of that too is, Jen, what do you think, Dr. Jen Fried? Well, I've been thinking a lot about this lately because I'm a very passionate person. Sometimes I get angry. And I realize that for me, anger is those lower shock roads. It's like the first, second, and third shocker, and those also tie into sexual energy.

So for women who don't allow or haven't been given permission to have, you know, rage or anger, even as an emotion, I think a lot of women suffer from reproductive issues and also from repression because they just aren't allowed to be mad or they are rejected. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think all of this shows up in our body. I can so relate to that.

There was never, and I remember my mom even saying in my home, like, oh, I don't do anger, like we don't do anger. I've never, I don't think I get it. Oh, God, I have more of a press sexual energy. Shit. So many years. You're the other thing. Why do we like rough sex? I mean, you know, a lot of women who can't open their mouths I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. angry and do that kind of sex or whatever they wanted? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, Jeffrey. I would like to see that. But I have one question for you, because I...

Okay. That's all I just said. Yes. Well, as a man that's telling the truth about everything. And I want you to really talk about male insecurities around the penis. Because I've heard you talk about it before. It was illuminating for me. And I think we don't talk enough about that you know we're looking at women's bodies and the shape of women's bodies but you really

taught me a lot about the deep insecurities around the penis so I thought if you could talk about that. Yes, we talked about all the time. I love this. No, it's true so many. I always, you guys are worried more about your penis than women are if you're with a man. But yeah, let's talk about your journey to accepting your penis, well, see you. All right. Thanks, Jennifer.

Yeah, thanks, Jen. Well, that's interesting. I think Jennifer's referring. I mean, I, I, I, I, done this like this public talk at a group event in San Francisco. And it was funny because it was like a room full of 100 beautiful women.

And it was just like, I remember thinking about the week or two before, like people were talking about like Trump's hand size. And I remember thinking like, look, we joke about this as a culture, both men and women do. But like, what does this actually mean? It means like, like, collectively, this is still the thing. And I shared this story when I was in that room with the goop crew. And I was like, I remember when I was like, whatever it was, 12, 13 years old, like when I was in that room with the Goop crew. And I was like, I remember when I was like, whatever it was, 12, 13 years old, like when I first learned about dick size. And I ended up like getting my mom's floppy ruler

out of the sewing kit, measuring my dick, girth, and length. And like trying to keep an erection the whole time, like while I'm doing this like really horrible thing. And then, and I've never, my guy friends did this. And like with my client work, I'm like every single guy relates to this. Everyone's done it and still in culture we're talking about hand size and dick size.

And I'm like, yeah, that's sort of funny, but at the same time, the people who are in power in the world, they're also like struggling about their insecurity, about their importance. And this is like percolating everywhere out into culture. And so it's like, we need to start talking about this because it's just something that, again,

it just doesn't get talked about. I'm sure it impacts the bedroom, but it's also impacting just culture of just this like really insecure masculinity that's out there right now. So what did you do, Will? What was this, can you give us a cliff note? It's like, how did you get past that?

I think a lot of men have measured their penis. I think, yeah, and they're very insecure. I know that a lot of men worry about it all the time. We hear it every night. So what were you learning? It's like, and this is the path back to like, really, we just mostly just project upon the body. And so it was doing the work over all the other insecurities.

Like, one of the things that this brings up, right? Because when I tend to share things about myself, like the story about measuring my dick, or like getting beaten when I was a kid, I've generally gotten two responses from people after either emails or they come up and they're like, thank you for being vulnerable, or they would say thank you for being strong. And I remember depending where I was on the healing journey on that topic, it would resonate. But eventually, after I did the work around those things, they didn't. I'm like, so what? If I say I measured my dick size when I was like 14

and I struggled with that for 10 or 20 years, why is that vulnerable? If you're a woman and you don't want to date me, thank you. That's actually a favor. Like, I got, like, no thanks. Or if you're an employer and you don't want to give me a job because of that, like, you're doing me a favor. Really, and I feel that now, you know what I mean?

And so when I was insecure though, I did used to like worry about those things. And so I like to say it's not really about being strong or vulnerable because I don't feel those. It's just being authentic. And I think no matter what the insecurity is that we have, we feel it's insecure for a reason. But once we do the healing around it, it's just us.

It's just who we are. And we find that just everyone has similar or related insecurities. We really do. It's not a big deal. So you're saying the power of just stating it too. Like that's what you mean by authenticity is just being real. Like here's like, you know, you're only sick as your secrets and stating things like the things that because the burdens and the secrets and the insecurities we carry on they weigh on us. They weigh on us, they take it. We can't really shine and get back to that authentic person

we were talking about earlier, our essence. And so just stating it, you realize, like, oh, I'm, you feel free, I suppose, there's a freedom. Yeah, and I guess, I mean, again, I had the, the, the, the luck of, I guess, you know, again, in my, in my therapy room, like it just, this is a thing that all men dealt with.

I was very open with friends and they talk about it. And it was funny, like even though this event came up again, it was like 100 gorgeous women. And there was one guy in the audience because he was doing some work with them. And he raised his hand up. He's like, thank you so much for saying that. I did the exact same thing with my mom's ruler.

And so it was just this, you know, it's always scary in the beginning when I started talking about it publicly, but then I'm just like, no, this is everybody. This is who it is, everybody. That you say the things that you think you can't say. That is some of the most healing work we could do. We're talking about being authentic and the things I think that so many are our listeners

too and ourselves. We struggle with communication with our partners and ask you for what we want because we're so afraid of rejection. We're so afraid of being seen. And that also plays out in relationships, right? Well, we're keeping all these secrets. We can't authentically be in a real intimate relationship because they're we're hiding so much. We're trying to show up as our perfect selves.

And so ultimately those relationships are going to fail as well. Yeah. That's the thing. It's beautiful. It's like, can we find partners where they can hold this sort of thing? And so with my most recent partners now, I have been as open about my insecurities physically, et cetera, with them. And they've been able, some of them have been able to hold it, meaning like they've just been able to, like, oh, like no big deal, like I would share it. But,

you know, it always comes with the, with the possibility of being rejected you know because i i'm someone of the type of you know i i believe masculine e femininity is separate than male female right and i think there is a lot of toxic masculinity there's male insecurity but i think members of both genders can play into that you know i mean there i remember thinking there's just mean that goes around the spiritual community of emotionally available and spiritually aware is the new sexier something and i remember like when i first got in my like okay, this is cool. But then at the same time, some women that I've found still, I mean, they'll say that,

they'll put it up on a meme, but they still are going towards a man that are not as open, not as authentic, not as vulnerable. So I think, yeah, there's different things in culture in both genders that continue to support insecurity in men and in women. And so I think it's just key to select partners and open up to people that can hopefully hold these insecurities. Yeah, that's what we, yes, you're so right. And I see what you're saying about someone like, no, I want a man to be a man.

I don't want to see you shed your tears. I don't want to see. I don't want to hear that stuff. But then I guess those aren't your people. I always tell people if someone's not going to be able to hold space for you and they're not going to want to be an authentic, you know, they're not going to want to be a, please you and be a wonderful lover and they don't really care about your needs and desires. To me, that's grounds for dismissal.

Like that is a, that is a gift. So not everyone's going to be for everybody, but I think you all get to decide who you want to be. But hopefully it's people who care, and who can be vulnerable and be real and be authentic. Yeah. And I think the thing is, the partners who I have shared, and the more I share with women,

and especially ones I trust, I've now started hearing from partners and not, that they actually think it's a strength that they actually feel more attracted. And I've actually found that to be the case in my relationships. And so it was also like, again, testing it out and seeing like, no, this is actually something real. It is something that's felt powerful by some women.

And it also, I guess we don't see it as much, right? The thing is that I think we say we want it or I want someone who's emotionally available. But maybe if they actually experience it, they're like, oh, that's too much. Or I used to find that I kept saying, oh, he's not emotionally available. And then I realized that I wasn't emotionally available. So then I had to do that journey the last 10 years. So it's like, oh shit, what is it actually

like to be that available? But I think that I don't know. I guess you just know what it's like if you've real authentic friendships, you want that also in a partner and in a lover. Well, Sue, we're not taking a quick break. I'm Dr. Emily. Be right back with more sex with Emily. So we're just talking about as the example of being somebody that's not toxic, that's

emotionally available, somebody who can be emotive and hold space for you and all these things is something that we don't really see examples of. And we see a lot of make-ups break-ups, we see a lot of drama, we see it being hard, but where do we go to see the actual healthy relationships? Since we're all still kind of learning how to feel emotions, I don't know how we, where we see that. I feel the same way about sex actually when people say, okay, and will you tell me porn isn't real, but where do I go to see real sex?

I'm trying to work on that. I'm like, I got to make a video series of real sex, but how do you, I don't know. I think for me, like, one of the things that you bring up as examples, you know, one of the things I think that's happened in Western culture is that we pulled people away from the collective and family. My family is from Central America. The family all lived together. So I was thinking about how I might go to two or three male mentors who I can talk to

about anything. I've been luckily to find them through the psychedelics. They've done a lot of their own personal work with or without psychedelics. But they've essentially paid the role of uncle or father that he didn't have growing up. And the reason I bring up other countries is that people have kids, but then who's taking care of the kids in these third world countries?

Like aunts and uncle, grandma, grandpa. There's always a community of mature adults that is around them. I think in the Western world, we have a generation, now a couple of generations of kids that, you know, with both parents out of the household, you've got like babysitters and essentially immature adults raising these children through their problems. And so I think we're losing the mentorship. And especially with women, right? We don't, we,

we somewhat honor the aging of men, the wise men in Western communities, but we don't do that with women. We don't see them as the wise women, that it's beautiful to have this knowledge and to be able to pass back. It's like, no, you have to be sexy and be like fuckable and all this thing. And that's like the only thing that we honor. And I think so having true male and female mentors and teachers and elders, I think is something that we really miss. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's funny. I was just having this conversation with someone today. I said, you know, I think the commune lifestyle, or when people say

it takes a village, it really does. Because then you have the parents that, you know, the mom, like I wish I had a mom that taught me how to cook, a mom that taught me how to organize, a mom that, you know, dad that taught me that, you know, there's so many different skill sets of things. and we are so isolated You know, we are living in our homes and we're only driving in our cars And we don't have that community more definitely not in America and I think you're we need that so will let's talk about your Like finding a mentor because we talk a lot this too about men having those finding those guys I would say be that guy in your group or find

Men groups of men that you can share that experience with like like how do we, other places guys can go, like do no one, like how do you find that? How do men start? I know, they're, they're piercing me, at least then again, I'll call the spiritual community, the psychedelic community, because there is like sort of, you know, the burning man groups and that sort of thing. There is more movements, um, things like, there, like there's one called the men's project, but there, there's more But there's more of these, let's get close to our emotions and let's talk about it. So there are people doing this now, I think. And so definitely, at least compared to 10 years when I was first going through this. But for me, it was also, we talk about therapy and how important therapy is to both of us.

But it's interesting because I also think about therapy is how it was a created need. We've only had psychotherapy since really the early 19th century. And it's like, so we created this need about being able to be authentic and not judged and have someone that's curious and that isn't going to get angry at us. But it's like, we essentially created this entire industry because we weren't able to be just authentic with each other. So I actually think it's really just about picking and choosing like who in my current community can I express myself to?

And if I can't do that, let's find some new community members. You know, because whether it's like paying tons of money to go to Iowaska somewhere or spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars to do therapy, but if we can just be authentic and just find just a handful of people in the beginning. That's a really good one. I think that's such a great step, is it finding a few people that you can do it to,

because I think people, oh yeah, right, I'm gonna show up at work or tell all my friends is who I authentically am, I'll be rejected. And the truth is, that could happen. But I always say like, you gotta start now, like then they're not your people. You keep finding it. Even you just have one person, right?

Because I don't think many people inside are aren't ready for the truth. They aren't ready for the authenticity. But I think we have to start somewhere. And it is hard right in the beginning. You know, I mean, it is, you know, I say a handful of people. But when I first started the journey, I didn't have that, you know, so it is scary. Or the other thing that we were talking about partners is that, you know, when I started getting more comfortable with partners, I started then just like, almost like emotionally diarrhea, youing on some of them, where they could hold some stuff. And my unconscious psyche was like, oh, can you handle this?

Can you hold this? Can you hold this? I found that it was overwhelming for the person I was dating at that particular time. And so I now do believe in spreading the emotional love more. Okay, so this might be a little bit edgy. I tried to bring this up, and this is difficult. I'll hold this for my therapist. Or, you know, this was too much for my partner. So I'm going to hold this for my friends. I'm going to wait till

later. So I think spreading out like, yeah, where, where the authenticity. You're so right. And this goes back to two. Talk about getting a community or having a culture. Is it having one person, we put so much pressure in our society that has to be your partner has to be everything. They have to be your emotional support. They have to be your problem solver. They have to be your best friend. And it doesn't have to be that way either. Your partner doesn't, you know,

that we put a lot of effort on that. Yeah, it's too much to put out. I realize that in just my last couple of relationships because I, you know, again, you can tell by the way, I am, I mean, I am comfortable talking about everything, but I also realize, yeah, that I can't expect any single person to hold all that for me.

Except my therapist, I pay him, so here. Exactly, exactly, but I still think, yeah, exactly. Start somewhere with therapy, I believe that we all y'all kind of need that, right? Well, I can't believe that you're patient. You said less than 5% of them are talking to you about sex. So they're talking about relationships, but they're not talking about sex.

Everyone is talking about relationships. That I would say is definitely the 98 percent. You know, I mean, everyone is talking about feeling lonely, not feeling connected, whether they're single or in relationships or have kids. Everyone is talking about feeling disconnected. But yeah, sex is not one of the things that's talked about often. Do you ever ask them? Do you ever say so what your sex life like or? I rarely do unless there's a reason for it. Actually, in now that I'm we're talking about, I actually don't know if it's wrong that people are talking about sex because, like, as we were talking, I feel that, again, sex ends up being really, a lot of it ends up being where we project all of these insecurities is that if we end up working on the insecurities

and other realms, that the sex life comes together. And I think that's what it's been for my experience, for me and for my clients, where like my sexual experiences have only gotten more pleasurable and connected, but it was not through talking about sex that much with my therapist. Yeah, no, I think that that's a really good point. I hadn't thought about it that way, that once you clear like, what are my insecurities

that I'm bringing into the bedroom, what are they bringing to the relationship? Maybe I've had trauma growing up. Maybe something I had sexual assault, something happened. You're bringing all of that into the bedroom. So being able to unpack it, you'll show up more free. That's by moxie. Yeah, absolutely.

Yes, that makes so much sense. I am so happy about it. Because I never think about it. I always have this like, this thing where I'm like, I learned that I was poor. I learned that I had a small dick, right? If we want to keep it like, these are all stories that I told myself that came from the outside.

So if we peel back the stories in the other direction, the address of it will go away. We have to ask you the five questions, the quickie questions we ask all of our guests. And we'll just have to come back come back to dive in more to this. But the questions we'll see are what is your biggest turn on? I'm going to actually maybe I'm not cheating. I'm going to say authenticity. Okay. But your biggest turn off. Oh God anger. Yeah, it's it's even though we've anger is my biggest turn off. What makes good sex? Authentic communication Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. It's all gonna work out Number one sex tip Yeah, just do whatever work to be comfortable and be free with yourself.

I like that. So good. Well, thank you so much for being here. Dr. Will Su, check them out. I was so good to talk to you. Well, and we'll stay connected. I appreciate all your help. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Have a good night. Well, that's it for today's episode. I'll see you on Friday. And thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review. And tell all your friends, your partners, your lovers about the show. If it's helped you, I promise it'll help them too.

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