Sex With Emily - Secrets To A Better Sex Life With Cyndi Darnell

Episode Date: February 23, 2019

On today’s show, Emily is joined by sex & relationship therapist Cyndi Darnell and they’re talking about all the ways to tap back into desire & arousal for a better sex life. Emily also discusses the importance of keeping your sex life top of mind and keeping your horny light turned on, gaining your sexual power, and tips on starting your own plan for the bedroom. Thank you for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: Hot Octopuss, PlusOne, Woo More Play, Gainswave, and SiriusXM. Follow Emily on all social: @sexwithemily. For even more sex advice, tips & tricks, visit: sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm joined by a sex and relationship therapist Cindy Jarnal, and we're talking about all the ways to tap back into desire and arousal for a better sex life. Topics include, if you're waiting until you're horny to get it on and you're never horny, you'll be waiting a long time. Sex is about power, and it's not the struggle you think it is. Every person needs their own plan for the bedroom, what's yours gonna be? And ways to keep sex top of mind so you can keep your engines revved. All this and more, thanks for listening. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions Betrubized they call them a bi-gon day Hey, Evelyn, you got a boyfriend?

Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken, he thinks you're kinda cute Hey girls gotta understand, oh my The women know about shrinkage Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean like laundry? It's shrink? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I want to feel so drunk

Being bad feels pretty good You know, Evelyn is not the kind of girl you just play with Are you kidding me? Oh my God, I'm so proud. Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between for more information, check out sexwithemily.com. You can subscribe to our podcast

for releasing three shows a week. You can also find me Monday through Friday on serious XM stars at five o'clock Pacific 8 o'clock East. It's awesome if you want a free trial for SiriusXM you can go to sexwithemily.com slash SXM for a free 30-day trial. As always you can follow us on all social media which we love at Sex with Emily across the board. I hope you enjoyed this show with Sex and Relationship Therapist Cindy D Darnell. I'm really excited because Cindy Darnell is here and she's a Sex and Relationship Therapist. She's now based in New York, but I believe you see people everywhere.

I do. I have an international practice. I'll take people all over the world and all over the US and Canada. I love it because you were in Australia when we first met. Yeah. Now we get you in the United States, which is awesome. She's internationally renowned, saxom relationship therapist, and she also has, she's released the atlas of erotic anatomy and arousal, which is an educational guide, which we all need more of. We're going to talk about that. She is going to, she's amazing. You can find her Instagram and Twitter at Cindy Darnell at CYNDI underscore D-A-R-N-E-L-L and her website

CindyDarnall.com. This will all be on the show notes. Cindy, welcome to the show. I know we just had you for a few minutes. It's a little teaser there, but I would love to go out. My premature entry. I love it. You feel premature entry. I am so excited. I love talking to you about all this stuff and I love your take on so many things and what we were just talking about before the break. Thank you. We're so cool. I mean, I love the way you're saying this

is that sex is about power. There is a certain power play. No matter what kind of sexual having. Because I think there's two bits to this conversation, Emily, because I think first of all, power is a dirty word for some people because when we talk about power, we tend to think about violence, we tend to think about someone being hurt, someone being abused. That's a thing,

and that is a real thing that exists, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I am talking about is the intention of actually creating an erotic experience for yourself and your partner by allowing one person to take control of the situation, consensually, with something that creates a sense of freedom and a sense of excitement and a sense of abandon. And I'm not talking necessarily about really kinky sex. I'm talking about just kissing. So something like, you know, when you're dating and you are walking home or you're in the car with the person you've just been on a date with and you go to have that first kiss, who initiates that kiss. How does

that whole thing start? How does that play out? And it can lead to this sense of really being taken somewhere, being taken on a journey, being taken to a place where you start to feel like this is possible, this is exciting, this is new. And I think we tend to forget that in long-term relationships. We tend to forget that we are both responsible for creating scenarios where that kind of magic happens again. It might not happen every single time you have sex. But don't you con it, but we were saying, really, we kind of do need that mat.

There is always someone in the power, in the dominant, in the submissive role, in the energy. How do you create that? If you had it at the beginning, we all want that honeymoon phase spark back. Yeah. I think one of the easiest ways to actually get that flowing again is first of all is to talk about the fact that that's what you want to do and agree in advance who's going to take on what role if it feels like something that doesn't necessarily come naturally and I'm using air quotes

here because I actually don't believe that much of sex is natural. I think it's all learned. I agree. So, when I say, when it comes naturally, some people may be a bit more naturally aggressive or dominant than others, some people are naturally more receptive than others. That is a personality trait. But also, how we are in our day-to-day lives is not necessarily how we are in the bedroom. So, this is another element of the sexual dynamic

that can come to life. Someone who is a woman who's a working mother, who has a job outside of the home, and she's also working inside of the home, maybe the last thing that she wants to do is have to also take control in the bedroom. Yeah. Maybe what she wants to do is just be dominated.

Be in that position where she is the recipient of all that energy and all that desire and all that attention, where she actually gets to check out and let go. And when I say check out, I don't mean blank out or a pass out. We don't mean like this is so she ain't. We mean like just ideas. Which I can totally relate to that. To be able to really just to relax and receive the attention of her partner in a way that is really deliberate, that is really intentional, that is really coming from a place of, I want

to create this experience for you based on stuff that I know you like. Right. And it doesn't have to be especially wild and kinky. It can be, but it can be just, you know, through kissing, through having their hair strokes, through having your neck kissed. When was the last time you slowed down enough to really kiss your partner's neck? I'm telling you not, not that does not happen. I can tell on your face. I'm telling you not that does not happen.

I can tell on your face. I've told all I want is God damn neck kiss. Like a long, sensual neck kiss. You'll get to my clitoris eventually. How am I looking my knee right now? Oh, I'm a little bit of dog. Neck kiss is, I love that dog. But like, how do we like, that's the thing?

I guess we talk about it. We have to keep our, we've got an active conversation with our partners about what we want. But like, for example, what Patrick called in just now before the break. And he was like, I want to put my part, she told me that she liked it when I put her hands back. Right. Exactly.

And then he's like, well, what do I do? Right? So in a sense of like, I think that there's a lot I can relate to being wanting to, I'm a, own a business and the work and moving them of them out there and I just I'm submissive in the bedroom like I'll get all the equipment I've got all the toys I got the loops I got the condoms all charged up but I just want to lay back I'll do stuff because I'm working life is about having your life

organized being on top of things being organized being the queen of the castle to have to do that in bed as well for some people is really not very sexy and your life organized being on top of things, being organized, being the queen of the castle, to have to do that in bed as well, for some people, is really not very sexy. And this also applies to men. Of course. There are a lot of men who enjoy being the recipient of the attention too. So especially if you're in a relationship where you both enjoy being in the submissive role, trying to work out whether or not you can actually both play the more dominant role is something that you're going to have to work out through a conversation.

Maybe a facilitated conversation with me or someone like me. People come see you. I love that you do call Skype calls. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. So, the urnl.com. Being able to have a facilitated conversation, and this doesn't mean that there's something wrong in the relationship, you know.

So this is often, I think people think that sex therapy is where you go when your relationships about to fall into the trash can. No, it's somewhere where you go to have facilitated organized conversations that help enliven and enrich a relationship. How do we bring this spark back? How do we bring this sex back? What do we do? And so for that caller about, you know, what do I do when her hands are pinned up? Having that conversation while you're pinning her hands is probably not the best time. Have that conversation overlapped. Have next time. You can be prepared in advance for the next time. And then you make that part of your foreplay. You send her text messages during the day. When I get home tonight, I want you to be wearing these panties. I want you to have these shoes on. And I don't want to hear

a word from you when I come to the door. And she's like, so she's at home and she's getting ready to dinner because she's got something to look forward to. So you set up that dynamic in advance. It's not just something that happens when you get in the bedroom. This is a way of interacting with the world, you know? Exactly. God, I hope my future ex-boyfriend also sent to that. Exactly what I wanted. Like text me ahead of time, tell me what you're gonna do. That would be amazing. And then we also establish consent that way too. Okay, so talk to me about the common things at duty couples too.

I do see couples as a side of individuals, yeah. So what are they coming to see you about? Like, mostly. If you had to say, yeah, this is what happens mostly. Yeah. Look, that's typical. All kinds of things. I'll see individual single women who are either

a single in relationships. So I'll see them on their own to talk about orgasm problems. That's a really, really common one. Orgasm. Yeah. Women with orgasm problems, men with ejaculation and erection problems is really

common, like really big. And then couples who either have what we call a mismatched libido, so one wants sex more often than the other, very, very common. And then sometimes it can also be things like different kinds of activities, somebody wants to do stuff that's a bit more out there than the other one. And increasingly, people negotiating open relationships is a big one, right? Big one as well. That is a big one.

Okay, so has there been anyone lately or can you speak to some kind of transformation that speaks out? It all the years you've been doing this of a couple, maybe that transformed in some way that came into you in one way. And there's probably an upshare you've had a lot of success. You wouldn't be where you're at. But is there some kind of couple, or a good example that could exit, like some way that came into you in one way. And this probably I'm sure you've had a lot of success. Mm-hmm. You wouldn't be where you're at. But is there some kind of couple, or good example that could exit,

like a couple that came into you and they were like, our sex life is dead. We've been together 30. Like what that protocol would look like, what you would walk them through if they were just like, I never want sex. My husband always does. Yeah.

Like where do you start and what's kind of, do you have any good stories that? Yeah, well, the success of a couple in a situation like that Depends upon their willingness to actually see their partner as someone who is worth investing energy into Because if you need to be right rather than be close Your relationships in the bin are those people right who just need to be right all the time? And so those couples, I can usually tell within a couple of sessions if it's going to work

out or not, and I'm usually quite frank with them. What do you say? I was a sage of them. If you need to be right, rather than close, this is not going to work. And usually one person, right? Or they both need to be right. Or well then it's the same thing. Exactly. Or if one is not listening and one is like,

it's my way or the highway. When I, you know, I can't compromise on this. And so I mean, depending on what the thing is, if it's a thing that is compromisable, then I really encourage a, what I would call a considered compassionate discussion about the compromisable thing. If it's something that is pushing somebody into doing something they absolutely don't want to do and they

have a really strong visceral reaction that pushing them to do it would be a consent violation, then that's not what I'm talking about. That's a very different thing. This is somebody who is saying, I'm not doing that because I'm annoyed with you because you haven't done x, y, and z for me. Right. That's a very different thing because we're just starting to use sex as a tool to hurt the other rather than using it as a tool to bring each other together.

So when there is that resentment that's underlying from other stuff that's not really about sex, but it's affecting sex, that's one way that I would do it. If there are a couple who are, we really want to work on this, we really want this to change, then those couples actually get results relatively quickly. You'll start seeing changes within two or three sessions. Now, I could see that. So they're like, no, we both, because that's what I'm always telling couples that you guys can come with. Any of your questions? Triple eight, nine, four, seven, eight, two, seven, seven, I'm here with Cindy Darnell, is that if you both want to do it,

I would say like, you can, because people call in like, well, my wife, or my husband, or my partner, or my girlfriend's like, you have to, they're trying to save it on their own, but you have to both have the bias. Like we always like take it on ourselves, that there's one person who wants it, but you tell your, you both got to be on board with it.

So I love that you're saying that's when they're both on board, you can move it pretty quickly. That's what I'm saying. You can move it really quickly. Like go see a sex therapist, go see Zick, do a talk to someone. So once they get over all the stigma, and they come to you,

what would be there? Because you're a sex therapist, and we also regular at the back. What are you, where do you start there? So what would be like, do you have a homework assignment? Yes. So if they were committed to making changes then and there, I would give them homework

to do that night. And it might be just in the initial stages just talking about sex. It might be listening to radio shows, listening to podcasts about sex, just to get some ideas. When they come and they sit and they'll say, you know, well, what can we do? It's that sort of lethargy, that sort of kind of low energy that is often the cause of the difficulty with sex in the first place. So it's kind of like, well, Cindy, you tell us how to fix it. And I'm like, no, you have to go and actually work out what's going to spark your fire. So I give them homework of finding activities that

they're willing to try and then to discuss that with each other, because if I tell them what to do, nothing's going to change. They have to find activities that spark in curiosity in them, that spark enthusiasm in them. And that could be anything from going on a date together and then taking a tour of an adult store afterwards. Yeah, because so many of the adult stores these days are fantastic. Or if you live in a town where there is not an adult store or you can't take the risk of going into a store, go and browse online together and buy yourself some loot, buy yourself a toy, buy yourself some whatever

that you can commit to sharing and trying together. So it's about actually getting involved in the process and not having it be a passive activity where I'm just going to do what the doctor says that we're going to co-create this together. Does that make sense? Absolutely. That is such a good point because we all learn differently. So some of them might, you might say to them, watch porn, go to a sex toy store, go online

or listen to podcasts or read a book. And we all learn differently. So they might, for some couple, they'd be like, we're gonna go right to good vibrations if you get to have it just go. Or they might say, let's watch some porn. Like, we all learn. So I love that you give them options,

but they get to figure out what works. Exactly. Because otherwise, if you just said, go home and watch porn. And they were like, oh my God, porn makes me uncomfortable. That's the thing. And so I will always go out with them.

So how do you feel about porn? How do you feel about going into an adult store? How do you feel about seeing each other naked? You know, a lot of people don't even want to do that, which is fine. But I have to take those things into consideration, because if I'm going to try and force someone way out of their comfort zone, it's not going to work.

That's why it has to be a co-created collaborative thing that I meet the client with their ass. Yes, you got to mean with that. That's really good advice. So what about the couples? We're talking about, we talk about mismatch libidos, but about desire. Like, let's just talk about that concept of sexual desire, passive sexual desire. Yeah. All the different ways of, or rousal, what is it? Desire and arousal. Yeah, which are two different things. Two different things. And a lot of people I think tend to mix them up and they think that they're the same thing.

I just said. Right. So the way I make the distinction is that arousal is the... That's why I wanted to talk about it. Arousal is the physical part. So that's what actually happens in the body. So that's the erections, that's the lubrication, that's the thickness, and how graphic can I get with my like a draft?

A very graphic, if you can see anything. So yeah, so that's the full kind of thick wet pussy lips. That whole thing is, that's what we call a rousal. Desire is the mental component, the emotional component. So it's kind of the two ends of the spectrum, the head and the genitals at opposite ends if you wanted to look at it that way. That's how I describe it. So what happens with people when they say that they have low desire, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not having arouse or they may still have

erections through the night, they may still have wet dreams, they may still get horny from masturbation. That all of that stuff can still happen and that person can still say, well, yeah, I don't really have a much of a libido or much of a desire. The word libido and desire tend to be interchangeable and that's the longing to have sex. So desire is the mental component and a lot of people, particularly folks who've been together a long time, women as well as men actually, increasingly more and more men are just like me. Right, exactly.

I just, I can't be bothered if I have a night off, I just wanna watch Netflix and eat popcorn and have a couple of beers. I can't be bothered having sex. So, and that's fine, except for when that starts to become the default in a relationship and, you know, one week turns into one month, turns into six months, turns into one year, turns into five years. And then it's like, wow, you know, what are we doing here in this, is this relationship still a sexual relationship? So working with desire is about finding ways of finding willingness to have sex without

relying on horniness as the motivator. Exactly. Because that just goes away anyway. Like, the, the, and really does. Yeah. After the beginning and we're so, so getting your brain on board with sex. Exactly. And your body will follow.

And a lot of people when they come to me and they're like, you know, I have a low libido or no desire, the first thing I will ask them is what do you think is a reasonable or a good enough reason to have sex? And in 100% of cases, they will say to me, I don't feel horny. And I'm like, do you need to feel horny to have sex? In the same way that we don't eat just when we're hungry. We eat for pleasure. So in the car coming here tonight, I had two pieces of chocolate.

Did I eat them because I was hungry? I ate them because I wanted to experience a sensation. Exactly. So if we're going to wait for horniness to be our primary motivator for sex, we could be waiting for a really long time. We could be waiting for a bus that never comes. Exactly.

Right. So this is why we have to start developing a relationship with desire that goes beyond am I horny or not? Because for a lot of people. That's not just going to happen. Yeah. I always talk about like the brain turns us on, but you get that.

Yeah. And the thing is understanding that it's not just going to hit you over the head. And then it's also confusing sometimes like when your partner comes in and they're like, I always say this with men coming in, they might have an erection in turn. But for women, it's very different. Yeah.

You weren't thinking about sex all day. We don't just have that kind of. Exactly. And so that's why for men who maybe have a sort of a naturally higher libido, and I mean, like they're just more kind of horny all the time, and they're thinking when I get home, I want to have sex. And or they're going on a date, they're seeing their girlfriend that night, getting her engaged sexually can start happening just after breakfast,

with text messages, with a can't wait to see you's with, you know, all these kinds of things that are going to help create a mental context, because it can actually take a much longer time to get the head and the body to start talking to each other than just having sex and having it be over in 15 minutes for a lot of people, particularly women, it's just not long enough. Not even to have an orgasm, I'm not even talking about that. Just the sexism.

I'm just to get in, to actually get in the mood. Because it can take time, like when you go to the gym, you don't go straight into your routine, you've got to warm up first. And that takes a little bit of time. So a part of that then people say, oh, you know, I don't have the motivation, I don't have the motivation for sex. I thought, well, you've got the motivation to go to the gym, you've got the motivation to go to yoga.

But you don't really feel like it, you don't spring out of bed in the morning and think, yeah, I'm going to yoga. This is awesome. You go to yoga because you have a motivation that extends beyond your love of getting out of bed on a cold morning. No one likes getting out of bed on a cold morning, but they do it. So we have to apply that same principle to sex. Okay, guys, we're going to take a quick break and we come back. We're going to get into your calls and even more sex talk.

Cindy Darnow, sex and relationship therapist. I want to see you. Okay, you're saying me right now. I know this is such a great conversation because I think you know, I think a lot of us can relate to the fact that sex just isn't tap a mind and therefore we feel broken because we never want sex We'd rather do we do everything we can to avoid it sometimes with our partners and it becomes a huge point of Contention in our relationship sometimes the point yeah, because we don't know how to get it back Because we compare it to that glorious Honeymoon's beginning thing, but that's just not real life and realistic. So we were just talking a lot about the desire, which is a mental game.

Yeah, absolutely. And so how you can kind of infuse your relationship with more of that so you can up the desire. Yeah, yeah. And it's really simply a matter of, at a basic level is making it a priority. And that might also involve making time for it. And then people are like, well, I'm busy, I've got kids, I've got work, I've got this, I've got that.

And the truth is, you have time for it. It's gonna involve shuffling things around, but you do have time for it, because back, when you first started, anything that, because back, you know, when you first started, anything that's worth doing, you make time for. Exactly. And sex is one of those things. And I think that we tend to get away with thinking that, you know, again, coming back

to this idea that sex is natural, it's not. It is learned. The instinct might be natural, but the skill and the time, these are a craft, like learning to paint or learning to play guitar or learning to cook. No one is born with those skills. You might have an innate kind of pull towards one of those things, sure. But the actual craft of it, you have to learn and you have to learn it from somebody else. And so because there's so much stigma about learning sex from a sex therapist or a sex educator

or a sex coach, that we don't have that stigma. If you want to learn to play classical guitar, you go and get a classical guitar teacher sex from a sex therapist or a sex educator or a sex coach, that we don't have that stigma. If you want to learn to play classical guitar, you go and get a classical guitar teacher and people are not like, ooh, so and so is saying classical guitar teacher. You should be musically gifted. You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted.

You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted. You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted.

Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. You should be musically gifted. Yeah, you know. So it's true, right? But there is. So we have this stigma about reaching out for help. And so my thing is how on earth are you going to learn what you need to learn if you don't go out of your way to learn it? Right. Really. Exactly. But that information is not just going to fall out of the sky onto your head. It's just you have to seek it out.

And then the next bit is you have to learn to integrate that information. So because, you know, the internet, it's a thing now. And we all love it. But, you know, there's loads of information on the internet now. And, you know, you can pretty much find anything you want on the internet now, which is great except that there's all this information. And nobody knows what to do with it. We don't know how to integrate it. And again, so this is where a coach or a therapist becomes useful or just, you know, having an old fashioned conversation with your partner. Yeah, that's true. How do you integrate that wisdom? So, you know, all of the toys and all of the workshops and all of that stuff is great, but all of it means nothing if you don't integrate it into your life.

So that's where it comes back to making stuff a priority. Exactly. So if you go and buy toys and loobs and all kinds of things and they just sit in your closet, that's not going to change things. Like me. Well, no, it's my job. I open up the show talking about my sex, but I literally have a sex toy closet. That's insane.

But even at home, I opened up the show talking about sex goals. I'm like, I am surrounded by sex. I've got all the toys, all the things, all the loobs, the siby and crazy. But lately, I feel like I live in this baron, what I was saying, a cold baron home with no furniture. And I'm just like, I don't know what the chargers are. I'm not even there. Literally, all I have are dildo like it's all I have no

furniture and just I have a I've one couch you have spoons I've no food and I have do you eat off a dildo? No I could there's a way to do it I show it a beautiful colorful dildo these These are fleshliners. That's how she holds her flowers. Pervert among sits of me. Yeah, it's not a bad idea. Might as well put them to use to me. You should've seen this one help me with her eyes rolled back. So just empty out that nightstand real quick.

I'm like real quick. There was like 800 bottles of blue. Like literally like full bottles. And then the bottom door was just a bunch of toys. No charter. So probably like 40. Like a bunch of them. charger So probably like 40 like a bunch of them and she's like what like it's crazy But then still if I don't integrate it like I was even saying like even I'm telling everyone to masturbate because it is So important we can talk. I'm sure a lot of your homework for couples are to yeah, just like go and I always say just like go into the gym

I never I'm like so psyched but I never regret it and I'm like why do I go to yoga? That was terrible waste my time. It was getting out the door even if I didn't want it just like going to the gym. I never, I'm like so psyched, but I never regret it. And I'm like, why did I go to yoga? That was terrible waste by time. It was getting out the door, even if I didn't want to. That was hard. That was always the hardest time of the year. Just like sex. And so I realized lately, I've been like,

I gotta head on into masturbate. I don't need to out, it's over there in my cold bear and home. I gotta bring them vibrator and charger, but this weekend I've committed that I'm gonna do it to my listeners. It's time. Sorry, I just like, it's cold bearin'. Wow.

Emily, I wanna make you my case study. I'm gonna therapist you and write about you. You should. Right, the sex therapist around everybody, Dildo's not having sex. There you go, babe. You can have it. Life rights.

I have had sex. I've used them all. I'm just sayin', I'm in a little of a, no, it's fine. It's interesting. I am a fucking. Now I just imagine I'm like a game of thrones, style, just, chair,'s interesting. I am a fucking. Now I just imagine like a Game of Thrones style, just cheerful of dildos.

Yeah, really? The only way you sit. It's true. Can we make that happen in my house? It is. There's a lot of stuff going on. No, I'm, it's interesting in that way. Yeah, yeah, it's like a...

That's like it. But that's the thing. I mean, even for me, the sex therapist, yeah, absolutely. We can do whatever you want. I have to be attentive to my own sex line. Yeah, right. So how are you? Right. Okay.

So, and I have to still make these things a priority. So having just moved to New York, I'm dating and. How's that going? It's great. Do tell me how are you meeting people? I'm just starting to date again. I'm using a couple of online sites. I don't know what do I say then.

Doesn't matter. Oh yeah, totally. Anyway, I'm not sponsoring anything. No, I don't care. So I'm using Tinder and okay matter, oh yeah, totally. Anyway, I'm not sponsoring anything. No, I don't care. So I'm using Tinder and OKCupid. Great. And I've met some great people. Really, really great.

But I've been doing a lot of online dating for many years. And in fact, I'm actually going to create a course on how to have fun with online dating. So I'm excited. Because I sort of have the mightest touch with it. Tell me. And well, because part of it, I think, is that we go into online dating, particularly

when we're a bit older, and by older I mean like maybe over 35, maybe over 40. We go into it often with this sense of, I have to find the one, or we're looking, we're often looking for things that don't exist. So part of it is that we forget to have fun with it. And I think one of the reasons that I have had such a great time online dating is because I approach it like going and meeting a new friend that my expectations are, I don't want to say I have low expectations. No, but it makes sense. What can I learn from this person on this day? What if I learn something? What do we have a great meal? Great drink, something.

Yeah, because I can always find something that I will connect with with a person unless they're a complete douchebag and then I just go, Oh, look at that. It's that time already. It's a time! And yeah. But mostly I have a great time dating

and in all the years that I've been online dating, I've had everything from Flings and One Night stands through to substantial relationships. So it's all possible. It is, I agree with you. And when people sort of roll their eyes at me and be like, you know, I just I think that you know the the vibe is wrong, the the intention is wrong and there is a way of doing it, not doing it right necessarily. It's not that I have the perfect plan. No, I understand it's...

But I think going into it, expecting to meet your perfect match, you're really, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Yeah, you're right. I think it's important to know what you're actually looking for. Exactly. And to state that early on, I mean, yeah, I've done online dating.

It's been a while, but this is the year, I'm going through a break, I mean, the breakups over. You don't go through it. But that's why I'm talking about my bare-in-home, my sex choice, so much, I just thought that it's's been a while, but that's this is the year I'm going through a break I mean the breakups over you don't go through it But that's why I'm talking about my bare-in-home my sex choice I just thought that it's always been this way though. There is still a lot of analyze and I don't know how long It's gonna go on but I am it's true that we're dating I've done it before I've been bumble and tender and What was the other one hinge and and I was it and I was I love I actually really enjoy dating I do

But I also felt like with the apps hinge and I was it and I was I love I actually really enjoy dating I do but I also felt like with the apps I would get a little bit overwhelmed like with the get texting back and the but I get like that with my emails so yeah but I yeah what are some of your best tips for managing it off when you do does get overwhelming I think special first message tips are weeding out who's right who's wrong tips yeah well I'm usually I'm pretty kind of ruthless in the initial stages of finding someone who's good and bad so like on Tinder for example if they have no information written and it's just a couple of photos unless they're

overwhelmingly hot, I'll be a soft swipe no and if they're overwhelmingly hot I'll swipe yes and then I will send the introductory message and it will be something kind of witty and kind of charming as I am. Right. Of course. And if they write back with just like a one or two word answer, I'll do a couple more exchanges like that. And if by the third time they haven't engaged with me, bang, they're out.

No matter how hot they are, I'm like, see, yeah, of course, right? They can't communicate. If you can't talk then frankly we can't fuck this is not gonna work for me for my temperament yeah I don't know I need that banter mental turn me on with your words yeah and so and that's the same too so if they initiate a conversation and it's just like you know high smiley face what is that like that if you're not gonna put in effort at the beginning what are you to be like three months down the track? Right. So that's really for me is a really strong criteria of yes

and no. If you're not going to put in the energy up front, then forget about it. So, and it doesn't necessarily have to be an amazing opener. Usually an opening message, if there is content, if there are words on their profile, read their profile. Read it. Yeah. And write something about what they have written that shows that, A, you're interested, B, that you read it.

And C, that you're capable of having an adult conversation. Yeah. That's not just high smiley face or a high winky face or, you know, great tits or something. Right. You know, they can be, can be great. Tell me something. It's fine. It's not that we want to shame any of that kind of erotic language.

But if that is the opening phrase, it tells me that you are not capable of having an adult conversation. Yeah, I have great tits, but you'll get to see them when I'm ready. Exactly. Right, all right. I have another question for you.

I want to go to something that you just said, because I think that's so true about the opening messages, but how do you screen if you're going to be on the same page sexually? Do you have sex? But then quickly, can you tell me? How do you have a question? Tell me.

We need to know. You're made with the swiping bride or lift. Oh, yeah. With your soul, you said you wanted to see how soon do you determine if someone is sexually compatible? Is there a way to do it in words? Or do you have to wait until you see them? And there's chemistry?

Personally, I generally love to wait. Jamie needs help too next week. I have to wait till I've seen them face to face in the real world. Okay, so there's not thing you feel there's a little bit of banter online, which is when I will agree to meet them for a drink or a snack or whatever. But the real moment of reckoning is the face to face contact, I think. Can you tell within the first meeting, like, the first meeting, whether or not you think, or usually?

Usually. If you have sex with them, or what, they're... Within about five minutes, I can usually tell. Do you talk about sex in the first date? Do you kind of... Is there anything that you try to... Yes, and no. It depends how...

It depends where I think it's going. If I think that the connection is purely sexual and that we're not really going to have much else in common except that, that I'm straight in there. And I really, my main question is what kind of sex are you interested in? What kind of sex do you like? Do you say that? Absolutely.

And the first day. And then do they just want to go, what do you mean? A lot. Sometimes. And at all, because you know, the job that I do, Emily, like, I'm not a kindergarten teacher, you know, so I have to I need to be with someone who is at least at that level now if I'm looking at talking to somebody where there may be something more than a casual connection where it's not necessarily as sexual and it's a little bit more There's an intellectual match. There's more of a kind of you know spiritual match

Or how do you want to call it in that way. Then I won't launch into the sex conversation straight away. Okay. So I will make a distinction around those two different kinds of dates. Is this going to be a sex date or is this going to be a date with a view to something a bit more substantial? Okay, so within the first five minutes, you can determine me-ish. Ten minutes. It's going to be a sex date.

Yeah. Okay, so sex, because you like, there's chemistry here, but it's not going to go anywhere because of, I know that's just subjective things, you know in the moment. And then how do you have, because you actually wrote an article about how you have good casual sex. And I think a lot of us are like, well, kids really, we can think you can be very challenging, like, how do I do have it, not have emotions about. So what you call that is like, that's a casual sex kind of thing?

That's what I would call a casual sex Yeah, how do you make sure you get your needs met during something that you may you'll never see someone? I talk about it. Well, no see. I don't have one nightstands. Okay. That's the distinction right for me a casual sex state does not mean You know love them and leave them open relationship It just means we're gonna hang out and we going to do this thing on a semi-regular basis, but I know that you're not a person I want to have a joint bank account with. And you've told you do lay that out too right away? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, for me, I have a reverence for sex. I think sex is one of the greatest gifts to humanity. And if I am

going to share that with a human, I need to like them. And so a casual lover for me is still somebody I treat with reverence. I don't, they're not just like a dick on a stick, you know. It's, it's, if I wanted that, I've got a box full. You know, I don't need a human flesh and blood person to fulfill that for me. I can do that part by myself. So I think one of the things that a lot of us miss in casual sex is to have reverence for the person who you're with, that we tend to associate casual with disrespect.

Yeah, that's so true. Why do we do that? There is no need for that. I think because we don't understand how you could actually care for someone, even have emotions, but it doesn't have to be the one. I understand what you're saying. Because I don't have a worry end that way.

For sex, I thought. No, we don't. That we only have sex with dirty cheap, you know, whatever. Let's talk about the reverence for sex. I have reverence for sex, and I have reverence for the people. I have sex. I don't want to share a house with them.

I don't want us to have jail bank accounts, and I don't want to meet their parents. But I still like them. You're like, no going on without me. Not me, your parents. And that doesn't mean that, but I want, you know, I want wellness for them. I want them to be well.

I want them to be happy. I want them to be content. I just don't want to be their main person. But then I meet people, one who I've met right now, actually, who I do want that with. But it's a very different energy. It's a very different thing. And with that person, we've been holding off on a lot of the sex stuff because the energy is really different.

And I'm okay with that, too. But I think it comes with having a buoyancy and being, and I trust myself, Emily. You know, this is the thing. I trust myself to carry myself into these complicated situations and to trust that the person I am with is gonna carry themself, that I'm not gonna have to do the, you know, the hard work to manage my feelings and their feelings.

So I'm gonna trust that they can do that for themselves. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. But this is stuff that you start finding out after more dates, whether or not that person is able to do that. How do you not fall into the situation of being the teacher always? I really don't mind. No, no, no, I do mind, I mind a lot. Yes, same. I personally, I personally really hold that part back. I really, really, and I say to them again upfront, because I do this for a job, if I feel like I have to enter into that territory in my private life, it's a real turn off for

me. So I need, I get, I mean, I'm happy to talk about stuff between us, but if it starts to feel like I'm teaching you shit that I wish you knew already, I'm gonna send you to see one of my colleagues. Oh good, like here's the purpose. I'm not doing that. And like here's the, wherever they're starting.

Yeah, but there are things like, obviously, with sex stuff that certain activities that I like, that they're not gonna know. So I'll happily tell them, you know, this is how I like to be touched, or like obviously with sex stuff that certain activities that I like that they're not gonna know So I'll happily tell them, you know, this is how I like to be touched or like this or like that Do you tell that right away like do not? Well, I know you're saying like I'm just trying to understand for people to like how do you communicate right? Early enough answer you don't have to waste time having bad having sex that you're not getting your needs met If it's a sex thing and I'm and I'm hooking up with that person

as a sex thing, and it's gonna be an ongoing sexual connection, I have absolutely no problem telling them what I want them to do, so I'm sure. And don't you find it more for the responses? Because I would rather not do that in advance. And it also, it establishes not only an erotic connection, it also establishes consent. I get to find out what they are into.

And I would rather know know before we get into bed Whether or not that person is gonna be what I'm looking for if I say I'm into this this and this and they're like Oh, that sounds horrible. I'm not cool. No problem. I'm really glad that we had this Yeah, you got to figure out sooner than later why Because you're not gonna be compatible with everybody. No, you're and that's okay too What if you were that would be the problem. Okay, Cindy don't now. Thank you so much for being here I have five quicky questions to ask you that we ask all of our guests. Okay, you're gonna like these though It's gonna be easy biggest turn on New York City, oh love it there biggest turn off

Taxes. A guy who shows up with his IRS forms is not high. What's your biggest dating deal breaker? You're on a date and boom. Bigotry. Cannot stand it. Homophobia, racism, bigotry, sexism, any, if I get a waft of, oh, you know those blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah waft of, oh, you know those blah, blah, blah. I'm out of here, see you later. What personality trait is the most important in a partner?

Listening. What's the sexiest body part to you? Shoulders. Good jobs in your journal. Thank you so much for being here. Tell us whether you can find your website or that. So my website is Cindy Darnell, C-Y-N-D-I-D-A-R-N-E-D-L.com.

Alright guys, hope you enjoyed the show. Thanks to Ken Samantha, Julia, Michelle, producer, Jamie, and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me. FeedbackItSex with Emily.com. you