Sex With Emily - Sex Experts Tell All

Episode Date: January 6, 2018

On today’s show, Emily’s compiled some highlights of her favorite interviews with expert guests who all share the same goal – helping people have the best sex and relationships they can. She’s joined by physician and radio/television host Dr. Drew, sex and relationship coach John Wineland, author and dating expert Zara Barrie, and sex therapist Cyndi Darnell who give their insights and expertise on an array of topics. From maintaining “lust” in long-term relationships to the different ways men and women think about pleasure to the realities of lesbian sex – there’s so much that can be learned from this show. Thank you for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: Beachbody On Demand, Adam & Eve, Magic Wand Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Happy New Year, everyone! I've been reflecting on the incredible guests I've hosted over the last year, and wanted to share some of the highlights from these interviews that really stuck with me. In today's episode, I break down the truths and myths about lesbian sex with the writer Zara Berry. Dr. Dupinski joins me, and we talk about the differences between the way men and women think about pleasure.

I talk to sex and relationship therapist Cindy Darnal about intimacy and eroticism and have a fascinating discussion with John Wyland about masculine and feminine energies and how they play out in the bedroom. All this and more, thanks for listening. Guys of a mall obsessed by sex Eyes that mock our secret institutions Betrubized they call them in a fight on day Hey, Evelyn, you got a boyfriend? Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken, he thinks you're kinda cute The girls gotta understand

Oh my! The women know about shrinkage Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean like laundry? It's drinks? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I'm so sad. Being bad feels pretty good.

But you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemle.com and check out our website, all the great content we are updating every day for your sexual pleasure and happiness. In the case you missed it, take a listen to all aboard the booty train.

This was a fun episode from a few weeks ago that's a perfect complement to your sex resolutions this year. We talk about how to expand your sexual repertoire and of course we give a crash course in booty play, which I know you like. You can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Oh, and speaking of resolutions, it's contest time. It's still going are better lover 2018 contest. So I want you to just take a moment and think about where are you at with your love life, your sex life, your relationship right now and where do you want to be in a year. So think about it right it down and send to me what changes you'd like to make this year. And if you do this, send me an email to feedback at

Sec with the Emily with the title Better Lover 2018 to share your pledge with me for how you're gonna be a better lover this year. Just make sure you get your entries in by Sunday, January 14th, and I'll pick four winners who are gonna receive incredibly sexy prize packs. Cause you know, you steal the ones from Presidents after the holidays, right?

And you can always get more Sec with Emily on social, all day long, at Sex with Emily on Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat and Twitter. Now onto the interviews. If you wanna hear all the full episodes, look at the links in the show notes which can be found at sexwithemily.com. Enjoy the show.

I'm joined by writer, talk show host, and all around badass millennial and smarty-hottie, Zara Berry. And I'm really excited for my guest here today. Hi, Zara. I'm so excited to be here. This is so fun. This is so fun.

And I'm honestly a huge fan of yours. And I have been for a long time, like, way before I started writing about sexuality on the internet. How did you find it? I think they're Dr. Drew. Like, I'm a big Dr. Drew. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay.

I'm gonna be up with, like, the love line, Aaron. I was a little young, but like I had older siblings. So yeah, I think I'd like to discover you through him maybe. And then I just think what you do is so amazing. Thank you. Like you're such a, just such a sex positive voice and that's so needed. And like I just, I, I, yeah. Well, that's why you're here because you're, you're taking ass.

I mean, I, I loved our, we met actually at, in New York. Yes. At the, um love Zara. We met actually in New York at the Expo in September. I think I was the time for that. I don't remember. It sounds like, oh my god, this year's been, oh, that was last year. But who knows what the time has gone. And Zara, she's a New York-based writer, a talk show host, and you do. I love all your writing. I mean, it's like, she writes about sexuality, heartbreak, fashion, emotional discontent.

It's like a roller coaster, we just have to get a good way. Like exhilarating and break ups and breakthroughs and breakdowns and just sacks. It's all just so good. So I'm so glad you're here. You're gonna share your insights on dating, meeting, navigating sacks. It's a millennial.

I can't wait for you guys to hear what she has to say. Like, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm in LA. Loving being in LA. And it's really, it's been actually really interesting because I lived here when I was like very young. I'm a term when I was 17.

And I lived here until I was 22. And it was just like kind of when I sort of came out as a lesbian. And I was like going to all these crazy lesbian, it was just like a very, I worked at Fred Seagull. Oh my God. It was very lost. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life,

but it was like this big coming of age time for me and to come back now at 30 and kind of like, now I'm a writer and I sort of have like more direction and focus in my life. LA is like a different experience. Right, exactly. You know? I was like reading through all of your, you're all you different experience. Right, exactly. That was like reading through all of your,

all your writing, social media. Oh, oh my God. Yes, oh my God. I'm like, wow, it was like, it was exhilarating, you know? Like it's a thrill. It's a thrill to read everything. Like your heart breaks and your sex, sex campaigns, like I said, and like breakthroughs.

And so like, let's talk about a little bit like where you are today. Okay. So you say like you're a mascara lesbian. I'm a mascara, let's go. Yeah little bit where you are today. Okay. So you say you're a mascara lesbian. I'm a mascara lesbian. Yeah. I'm a mascara. Well, I so was at like a mission because my mother's English

and for some reason that's the only, I can't say mascara. Like I don't, I've tried. I'm from Midwest, like air, man. I say I'm eight. I would try because I get made fun of. But no, so I say mascara lesbian, but I guess it would be mascara lesbian.

Right, okay, got it. Like lipstick lesbian. Like lipstick lesbian, but I never identified with lipstick mascara lesbian. Right. Okay, got it. Like lipstick lesbian. Like lipstick lesbian, but I never identified with lipstick lesbian because when I think of making out, I don't think of wearing, I love lipstick, but like if I'm feeling hypersexual, I wear like a nude lip because I want to make out. Right. Otherwise, it looks like a bloody scene, you know?

Right. So I, I identify with the mascara, I love mascara. Right. You've great eyelashes. Thank you. Like, it's amazing. I love mascara. Right. You've great eyelashes. Thank you. It's amazing. Oh, thank you. So as you should. So how, what's yours?

So you've always, no, you've had a whole bunch of different sexual experiences. Yes, yes, with the lots, yes. Okay. And so now you're in a committed relationship with a woman. Yes. And so what I think is interesting though is that you've gone through a lot like you when you were younger tell me about your like

social when you first discovered you were you know what I think I was talking about this with a friend last night I first discovered That I was a lesbian when I was in the seventh grade and I got drunk with a bunch of my friends like we like stuck It was like very like typical suburban dark story where like a bunch of like kids in the suburbs like raid the liquor cabinet and then we all ended up sort of like making out. And I remember afterwards and giving each other hikis were like, let's practice kissing and I'm pretty sure I instigated it. And then afterwards they were all laughing about it and I remember feeling like, oh, like this kind of meant something to me. And I could tell it didn't mean anything to them.

It was just like, you know, like a friendly, you know, a kid's experiment with each other, whatever. But for me, it like haunted me and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And then I started thinking about boys and I was like, I just, I realized that there was a disconnect. Okay. And I knew what lesbians were. Right.

You know, I have liberal parents. I knew what they were. But I just also didn't, There wasn't lesbians in the media at that time. Yeah. Alan was kind of... That's like it. Right. That's it. You know, and I love Alan to death, but I don't necessarily identify with her. So I was like, how? I was very confused because I'm so feminine. You know? Well, you are so with that thing. I feel like you're probably always getting hit on by man. Not as much. I think it's so weird.

It's so weird. I actually am so rarely around straight men. I feel like I'm always around women and gay men that when I am around straight men and they start hitting on me, I'm bewildered. But you come out and say, what do you do? Are you like, I sometimes I play along for a second and then I'll go in for the kill and mention my girlfriend just because it's it's funny

It's a sort of see I mean that sounds so no, but they're like Right like there's like what like cuz they don't mean you typically don't see me You do or wherever you see it, but you don't also Typically, yeah, no like see I get it, but I I often will talk to straight men You know as if they're just like bros and I'll start talking and then when they realize you cuz of that Yeah, cuz you're so comfortable to straight men, you know, is if they're just like, bros and I'll start talking. And then when they realize you cause of that, they're like, you're so comfortable. Yeah.

But then when they sort of connect it and they realize that I'm a lesbian, they're like, oh shit. You know, I got freaked out, but. And do they have, like, I can turn, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But I say, like, gay guy say, like, well, what do you say? Like, if I went straight, I'm like, really, are you really having some of these?

Like, you're not gonna go straight because of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're like, this is so boring. are you really having some of these? Like, you're not gonna go straight because of me. And like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, you're like, this is so boring. Are you really having this conversation? Okay, so you wrote about, you wrote a lot of things, but you wrote about like sex myths about lesbian sex. And I think that like, you know, I've been doing, you know, I've done thousands of podcasts

and stuff that I've had gay, straight. So many of the different people on the show, but I think that like, lesbian sex still really is this mystery to a lot of men and women. I mean, they're just like confused by it and they're like, do you hate penises? Like, how does it really happen? Like lesbian, best, dead, or, yes. What is it? Bed death. Bed death. Bed death. All that stuff. But let's, let's talk about like some of the myths. Okay. Let's see. And I think you're so right. People are like fascinated by lesbian sex

because I think that we are lesbians in general are very elusive creatures. I think gay men are more putting themselves out there more open, but we're absolutely a little mysterious. People don't, they really, like they're so confused. And I know it's been a while since I've had so, like on the show, like I've had lesbian gay, we don't get into it because I feel like people know.

But with you, it's like, this is what you do and you talk about. So let's shed some light for some people. Yeah, and I mean, look for a long time. I always tell people this, people would say to me when I first came out, like, what's lesbian sex? And I'd be like, I'm not telling you, but it was because I didn't know.

And I was too embarrassed. And then like, like, the fact to you on that. Yeah, girls would be like, oh, like, did you have sex that I'd be like, no, did you have sex with her? And I'd be like, no, but I wasn't sure if I actually did, because I didn't know what it was either. How do you define sex? I mean, how do you define sex?

And there's some, and that's the other thing, is that different lesbians define it differently. So some lesbians would say, you know, when you use a strap on, it's sex, or when you, any kind of penetration is sex, or oral sex. And I just say, anytime someone has an orgasm to me, it's sex. And when I said that to my girlfriend, she was like,

oh, my number just got cut in half. Like, she went down and how many people she thought she'd slept away, because she didn't define it like that. Yeah, because then we were like, oh, orgasm, it's not orgasm, it's about the connection. So people think it's just, like, there's no, because I guess people think it's, there's no pain,

well there aren't painstances, but like, you know those or there's, there's just, I don't know, oral, I mean, what are some of the things I hear a lot are, definitely, sizzering people are like that doesn't happen.

For some reason, straight people are really protective of me with these kind of things. And my old editor would be like, oh, come on, people don't scissor. Like, Zara isn't that stupid. People think like lesbian scissor, and I'm like, oh, I'm a scissor.

Yeah, right. Would you like to take your legs or come in together or like, oh, right. Yeah, I mean, I see like, it's gone. It's gone, right? Yeah. But it's not like, not every night, like. Not every night, but like, people do.

And I think people are always like, oh, that's a porn thing. But I, I, I scissor. I'm Zarbary and I scissesar, I'm for Tolluke that. So what else do I hear? Oh yeah, that I think that people think that we're all experts on oral sex too. Well, I hope you are because I was hoping to pick your brain. I mean, I'm an expert in oral sex. That's only just because I've had a lot of practice. But you know, it took me a while too. First time I went down there, like just because I've had a lot of practice. But you know, it took me a while too. First time I went down there,

like just because I have the same parts, doesn't mean I know what I'm doing. And women, every woman's body is so different. And what she likes, I feel like with men, in my experiences with men, it's pretty straightforward what they like. Yeah. And women, it's like each woman has a different trigger point.

Some women, you know, like penetration, some hate penetration. And each time you get a woman in front of you, you have to figure it out. You have to figure out what she likes and listen to her body. And I've definitely had plenty of sexual experiences with women where they didn't know, you know, what they were doing. It was like being with a guy almost, you know,

oh, they don't know what they're doing with you. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like we're not all great lovers? Unfortunately, we're really not. But it can be taught. I think. This is why I exist here on the planet, but I feel With, yeah, yeah. Do you feel like? We're not all great lovers, unfortunately. No, we're really not. But it can be taught. I think so, yeah. I exist here on the planet.

But I feel like, and do you have a lot of women coming to you who've been with any woman, and I want to be with you? Yeah. I get, more people have come to me for tips. I have a lot of readers that are bicurious, and I don't even know how to talk to a woman. And that's why I try and talk about this stuff so openly because I remember being like that.

Yeah, you know, starting out there so wide. We get a lot of questions like that as well. So, and I know you've written about this extensively too, but what are some tips for women who are like, Jamie, he's in the other room who works when she was like, just sitting on the show last week that she's like, if it happened, like I might be interested. And I think there's a lot of women

who just feel like they're open about it, but they would not know where to start. So what would be some tips? I mean, I think that the best thing to do if you're bicarious is to get on Tinder, honestly. And be upfront. And just say that you are bicarious or bisexual and that you're looking to experiment,

but you're inexperienced, because you don't want to, what lesbians hate is sort're inexperienced because you don't wanna, what lesbians hate is sort of being fooled. Like they don't want, like say they go in a date with you, and then you realize, ooh, you know, I'm not into this, I'm only into men, it doesn't feel good. Right, you know. Just like we wouldn't like it if a guy came up,

shut up, he was, you know, whatever. You don't wanna be in himself. Totally, you don't wanna be anybody's experiment. But then there are plenty of women who are down to experiment with you. So just be open about it. Be honest. I mean, there are plenty of women who are actually, I know tons of lesbians who are turned

on by being the teacher. I'm not. You know, I like someone who's more experienced than I am. Personally, I feel like I'm a leader in so many aspects of my life, like sexually please. That's how I feel too. I do feel like that. Yeah. Because I've been having guys lately, I'm just like, I know he could use my help so much,

but like I help like millions of people through the podcast every week. I don't, I don't want to teach this guy. Like I want him to learn, I just want to be like, listen to some episodes and then we'll like that again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean.

So see you want someone who's, I get it. Yeah, yeah. You like to learn. This is our job. To hold it like, I want like off time when I'm having sex. Let me do it. But I do think it's true, yeah, I'm trying to think about it. And I've like, experimented, I've doubled.

Yeah. And I'm trying to think of what I think I just, yeah, maybe I was a little confusing at first. But you just, yeah, I mean, you just kind of like, be honest. Yeah, and I think. And I think down there. Yeah, but what did I do?

I kind of remember, I was a little drunk. I mean, definitely with women, communication. You know, women like it, like, I think, my experience, like, women love when you ask them what they like. And just, you don't have to pretend like you have it all figured out. Just be like, does this feel good?

What do you like? You know, you can even say, like, I don't really know what I'm doing, can you help me? And I think a lot of, like, women are into that. They want to help you. And also, like, listen to her body. I feel like with of like women are into that they want to help you and also like listen to her body. I feel like with men, women, everybody, I'm sure you feel this way. Like if she, you can tell if someone's responding to you. So don't get so in your head and worry about what

you're doing and instead put your focus on the person. Get out of your head, everyone. Get out of your head. Get out of your head. I think they were so worried about what they're thinking, how they put the information right there. Yeah pay attention, like is your breath changing? Is she moving toward you? Wait for me, like there's a lot you can tell. Yeah. In the moment, but I think our brains are, you know, large big enemies sometimes, right?

I think that's the best sex to have ever got. It's funny because my mother used to always, I was always shy growing up and she'd say, okay, if you're shy, put your energy on the other person, start asking them questions. And then I've sort of like translated that to sex. Like if you're feeling self-conscious, just instead fixate on their body.

Like, are they in tune with you? Is this making them feel good? Are they moaning? And then before you know it, then you're out of your head and you're into the sort of meditation of sex, which I think is when the best sex happens, when you're just sort of like,

like when you let go, it's like dancing. Exactly, that is the best. Your body knows what to do, you know? Getting to the brain. It is the brain. The brain is, I think like so many of the questions I can answer, it's like, I can't have an orgasm, I don't know what to do.

And it's like, get out of your head, but you don't want to totally like get into trance, but there is a point where it starts to flow, like dancing, you're not wearing. And it is true, just like in life, like you know know you got to give to receive that it's a really good tip that like when you're worried Just keep like giving ask by giving I mean like asking questions or or say like what do you like and? There's a lot of women though. I think I hear like I don't know what I like like Like

That's it. I was like just masturbate like, how did you figure out what you liked? Did you always masturbate your age? Oh, totally, from a very young age. I mean, and you know what's really funny as I always tell people this is that when I first masturbated, I thought that it had given me HIV because I knew it's such a weird, so it just goes to show like lack of education

that it's to people because I knew that, you know, one of my mom's friends had passed away from AIDS. And I knew it was like something sexual, but I didn't know what sex was, and then I figured out that masturbation was something sexual, but I couldn't, you know, no one had ever talked to me about it. So I spent like six months in third grade,

like convinced that I had HIV, and that my parents were gonna like hate me because I was selfish, and I like, I couldn't resist the temptation and then finally somehow I connected the dots and it was like a huge way. Like I remember it. I remember being like, oh, okay, I'm fine.

But yeah, I started masturbating young and I think it's so important. I know, it's the most important thing. I know, especially for women to figure it out because I think a lot of women feel like their partner are just gonna figure it out or just happen during sex. We just know that that doesn't.

For some women, that doesn't happen. No, and also, for me, I never knew. No, me neither. And for me, I always thought that sex was like, even as a lesbian growing up the way I grew up, I always thought that it was sex really wasn't for women to be enjoyed. It was about pleasing the other person.

And I hear that all the time. Like, you know, you think of high school and it was like, this girl gives great head. But you never heard rumors about like, oh, this guy is like, right? Going down on girls ever. Like, you know, I didn't even do it. They didn't know you're so right.

It's always about this slutty girl who was able to do stuff. You're absolutely right. We are not, and I'm trying to change that. And I'm seeing you even with young girls, I know today like 17, like high school, they're like same thing, like it's about pleasing the partner. Yeah. They don't master a way, they don't make some feel good.

So if you're young and you're listening or you're parents of young children, they don't know. They're not gonna figure it out on their own. It's the same thing. And it's like horrifying, because I'm like, I really think things have changed. Like I really think that young women today, young girl, it just would be different

with all the sex out there, but it's in many ways it's not. It's about pleasing the guy or looking good for them or putting out, because it'll like a more, or whatever it is, just not the case. I'm gonna welcome my guest, Dr. Drupinski. Hey there, it is fun around here. It's why I can't stay away. I know, right?

I'm gonna keep coming back. The pounds of Lou, especially. Dude, don't fun around here. It's why I can't stay away. I know, right? Gotta keep coming back. The pounds of Lou, but special. Dude, don't leave that pond to Lou. I got a backpack for you. You want to do it? Yeah, Dr. Drew, it's so funny. So I never listen to my podcasts. So I've been doing it for 12 years.

Yeah, I don't listen either. To mine, to anything I do. Ever? No, almost never. My wife listens to stuff, so I sometimes hear it at the background, and I cringe. Right, exactly, but it's not even so much because my boy, I've already gotten over the fact that my voice is like this,

and I say, um, way too much, it's more like I was there, and I feel like I've been listening, and I've really even, I've an hour, I wanna listen to something else. Absolutely. And if I were gonna value it myself, I'd probably listen for five minutes ago, and I'd have many, many notes in five minutes,

believe it. Well, that's the thing, and then I wanna change everything. So I just don't. But then, so you're coming back, you've been on the show, you were on one other time. There were two other times. I'm sure it's twice. But last time we had a really good conversation.

We had a party, that was a party, like that was fun. And then you saw me speak at the human gathering. That's right. You thought that stuff was interesting. Exactly, that's different stuff than we were talking about. Different stuff, what I was going to say is, well, right, because that's what I wanted to talk about as well.

Okay. So it was when you were on the floor and you were like talking about how we were talking about what happiness, first of all. And you were talking about how it's a looser thing and there's all these books on happiness and no one ever defines what happiness is. And then you're saying, you know, it's actually about, you know, you were saying that you're grateful if you're grateful a few times a day, that's what you know can make you have the sun. That's not your happy.

And it also adds to to it, yeah. It kind of adds happiness. But then also when you were talking about, and this might be too much, because we do have callers, we have things that we're doing. It's a weird little way from sex a little bit, but go ahead. But I don't know.

I just when you were talking about your experience, I think it was with your therapy, emotional, mode of therapy, is that what it is? You know, she focused therapy, so. Oh God. And when she focused therapy, and you were talking about how you had the patient, and you heard the, yeah, to hear these things and I feel these things. Yeah, it was a lot of time. Yeah. And then that's I think that's but it's the embodiment

and it's the work and it's so a lot of what people are feeling. They don't know what's even know what they're feeling and how it manifests in your body and how you learn to connect with people and then you got on the floor and you're talking about our parents. I feel like if you're a parent, you have to mimic back their emotions. You've got on your knees. Well, this woman was like, how am I gonna be a great parent? I'm like, do this, get down to your kids level. And I was trying to show and be face to face,

let your body attune. And when it does attune, guess what your heart rate will measure? The kids heart beat, you're even your hip hits. Dude, the pubular movements and your iris will actually mimic your kid and then just stay open and reflect back on your face and appreciation of what the child's experiencing. And that little model is in exchange that we can use in everyday life. The mirroring in our face, women do that almost automatically. They do. You're doing a little bit of right now,

even with me. And I'm acutely aware of it because I had to really print it a little bit pronounced as a male in order to set the boundary and to show that appreciation of what they're experiencing. And if you remember, I in celebrity rehab, the patients used to give me shit about it. I go, no, there is with that sad face again. I'm like, no, I'm signaling. I'm not, I'm signaling. It's a different, I'm not catching your feeling, but I am deeply appreciating your feeling and I'm signaling you. I'm not telling you, because telling goes to a different part of the brain. The signal goes to the deeper right side and holistic embedded part of the relationship.

It is that something that you think as a physician learned it or more through therapy? I feel like you were talking about your therapeutic experience. It allowed you to connect more with yourself and then with your patient and with everybody. I saw my therapeutic experience as a patient. I was some of my therapeutic experience as a patient. I was talking about my therapeutic environment as a practitioner. And then I was talking about my disciple. The what's the word for all, like the disciples.

I was talking about all the people. What were Jesus's followers called disciples? Disciples, yeah. There are disciples out there that I am their Saint Paul. There's a guy named Peter Phanaghi who's stuff I'm describing now as Guy N'Mal and Shorah, as a guy Stephen Porgias, a guy named Dan Siegel,

a guy named Bessel Kivandako, who I forgot to mention at the other end. But these guys, I'm telling you, these guys have worked this stuff out, and I listen and read their stuff like I'm reading the Bible, as I'm just, oh, I'm just in awe of it. And so it's because deep, deep application, it's the next 100 years, I'm telling you. So beginning of the next 100 years, I'm just I'm just in all of it and so it's because deep deep application. It's the next hundred years

I'm telling you so beginning of the next hundred years of understanding the human Right, and I think that a lot of well a lot of what we talk about is where we're saying in the online you see it You should see it see a therapist you should go to therapy. You should do this. You should do that people I don't know. It's like it's another it was another way of showing That how much that experience people don't really get it like I go talk about myself A lot of bad therapists so many bad therapists that how much that experience people don't really get it's like I go talk about myself and pay 300 bucks. There's lots of bad therapists. So many bad therapists.

So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists.

So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists.

So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So many bad therapists. So's where it's all, but right. But I think that it's about your thoughts. It is, but it's not mental health. It's like mental evolution or something. It's mental realization. It's mindfulness. No, it's realization rather than health. Self-realization again, we're back to the past.

But just as important, I don't know. Okay, let's, this is what I just said. But all our craziness comes out in relationships. No where does relationships come out more than, and no craziness comes out in relationships. That's how we all need a little bit therapy. I have a hard time, I think, too, with people who dating someone who hasn't,

and I think we have a lot of colors to say that we can help online, but what I wanna talk to you about first is little sex in the news. I wanna talk to you about the dick click. The what? Oh, when you're ligament clicks. No, that's not the dick click.

It's new, this was in the news today. You might have, you were probably doing 16- When you were doing 16- when you were practically- No, dude, the new today. You might have, you're probably doing 16-bit of shows. No, dude, listen to this. So there are plenty of male contraceptives in development at the moment, but a new switch device has been revealed which maybe the strangest of the lot, a new device called the dick click

works in the same ways as a facectomy, but it's like an alternative. It operates via surgically inserted valves. Do you know this? And there's literally a click on your penis that would, they could be like, I want this for a month. I want this for a month. Who's gonna remember to do it?

It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not,

it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, This is a company that really doesn't have the research yet to say that I don't like about this. You see the pictures of it, have you seen the pictures of it? So this thing probably won't have a man want to take responsibility for this at all, but...

But it's a good idea. I just want to show you the switch, you guys. We'll put this on our website, but look at this. Yeah. It's like, you put the switch in there, scroll down. Yeah, yeah. Literally, that's not one more. Yeah, well, it kind of thing.

You can't take responsibility then. Well, no, when you look at the penis implants, the penis pumps, they're kind of like device like this, but those are, that's a lot of hardware. It's not a minor thing, it's a big deal. So yeah, I had read about that and it started like, eh, it's not gonna, probably not gonna happen, my friend. Okay, none of this could happen.

The male pill won't happen, because the male pill will happen. No, no, no, male pill. No, no, male pill will happen. No, no, male pill will happen. Something like that will happen, because it's, it's, it's, now to about, they're, they cannot do it, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, So it's either they're gonna interrupt with the movement of the tail or the capacitance, I think. That's awesome.

And you think it's really gonna happen? Someday, someday, it's gonna take a while. I just feel like that we're spending so much time on the female pills, that's why that, that they're not gonna. The men wouldn't take it, they wouldn't be responsible. I don't know. Okay, that's another thing.

Should we get some calls, Drew, or anything else going on in the world? Oh, oh, finally. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I was just gonna say, finally, they have some, finally, they're admitting, oh, guess what, oral contraceptives cause depression and female

Oh my god, they're just saying that they're just really sort of coming out with it in a big way And it's like no how many times on a love line do we say are you on the shot or you on for just every day every right? That's right. Why don't they warn me? I would think that there's more information now, but now we know the fact I mean Anna I'm sorry back. Yeah, everything. Oh my god. Anna. Did Anna have a problem with this? Anna. No, did I say Anna? I thought this was. Oh, no. I said and on the last show. No, but Anna. I don't know for Anna. But when I was in the last show, we're talking about how women have no information about sex. They they're disconnected from their bodies. They younger

girls like when they're first having sex. So now. Yes, we talk. You're like me. See, I didn't remember either why everyone loved this show. Yeah. Because everyone here loved it too. So I was like, okay, I'll listen. Yes, I ran. I'm like me, see, I didn't remember either why everyone loved this show. Because everyone here loved it too, so I was like, okay, I'll listen, yes, I ran, I'm like, I'm gonna listen to the show. And I'm like, oh, this was pretty good. It would be talked all about how women don't under, what I was talking about. I'm sure what I was talking about though

was how mystified it makes me. That in this day and age, how that's possible. That's what I, I was upset because I'd fam, I had family and friends who have kids who are 17 and they're like, sex, I don't understand sex, I don't masturbate gross. And it hurts inside of me. The penis, the condom, ew. And they don't understand sexuality, they don't understand why they should masturbate,

they don't even know why they don't want to be vulnerable so they don't even want relationship with anybody. So they're just having sex to please the guy. Nothing's changed because I felt that way. Right. And that means there's something biological in this, right? And so we have to be there's a difference and guess what, everybody, men who own a different biologically.

So you have to help them with that biology. You have to treat the men. You're trying to get them not to do something. Right. But you can't get them to stop. And we have females who are trying to get them to engage with it and to be a part of it. Exactly. You know, it's funny.

I saw something on, do you have what's that show? Oh, this is way out of your demo, but Frankie and this is a lot of things. Yes, yes, just because everyone's talking about it. Yeah, I've seen one episode. Okay, Susan loves it, so I love this show. And in there, they eventually get a vibrator business. They rise a view a million times,

the second, third season, they really get into this vibrator business. And one of the character, a male, young male's female partner, they have sex, they do it for a long time, she says it's great, and he leaves the vibrator behind the mom's vibrator device, which is supposed to be this wonderful, super special device. They are, super special. I'm sure something like that exists in your closet already. We'll get some treats. Yeah, and and he hears her after they've had this long session masturbating and making a different sound

and it freaks him the hell out. And I thought, oh, that is so much about the man. And he can, he confronts you, goes, look, how come I couldn't make it? This is like the man we want you to have the ultimate experience with our penis. Exactly, that's it. How come you, I couldn't, he was like so upset,

and he goes, oh no, no, it's not better. It's just different We're like okay here's what I heard Why is it my penis my penis was not in the room but we have when you say it's different and it sounds more intense We just hear we missed out we didn't hit it right. It's weird and we can't imagine We can't literally can't imagine that there's an equivalent experience we can't literally can't imagine that there's an equivalent experience that's better or good that's not about orgasmic intensity. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Because we're fully in that sort of biological zone in our sexuality. No, that's true. Even though we appreciate the connection we like the intimacy and stuff in terms of the orgasm part, there's an orgasm. It's either intense or super intense and that's it. And if it's super intense and you weren't there and it was different, then the ego, there's an orgasm. It's either intense or super intense and that's it. And if it's super intense and you weren't there and it was different than the ego, it's the ego too. It's more than ego because it's not a lie.

But it's a language we don't understand. Because I still, as someone who tries to be very attuned to all that, I really don't understand. I watched that scene, I have no idea what she's talking about. And yet, that's a real thing. I know that's a real thing. You say because I really don't know what she's talking about. It yet, I, that's a real thing. That's a real thing. I know that's a real thing. You say it because- I really don't know what she's talking about.

It would be like if you used to say a flashlight, like a male masturbation sleep. Or like, all you could think about is like, that's still your hand though. I mean, I guess a vibration doesn't feel. No. You're just saying having an orgasm with a vibrator and a penis is not, what do you-

No, see you don't understand what I'm doing. I understand what you don't understand. Right, right, that's the craziness here. Yeah, a matter of words. What are your penis? Men will have more intense experience based on who they're with, novelty, what their eyes are perceiving, and what you're experiencing. That's the rest. That's the, right?

Is there any other advice with the vibrator? I'd rather be with a man and like. More nor is the vibrator. I'm more jealous. More nor is the vibrator. What are you talking about? Maybe my orgasm is too much. Maybe you said the orgasm sounded different on the team.

I know and you just said you make more nor is the vibrator. Sometimes my orgasm is too much. And I'm jealous for your partners. I'm immediately jealous. I make a lot of noise. But the vibrator. Look, there's another man sitting there. You know what?

You'd be jealous. Yes, it's weird. sitting here. You know what, you're dealt with. Yes, it's weird. And I understand it totally. But what about when you masturbate? Isn't it different? No, it's just, just what it was looking at. So we're looking at it. Yeah, but then that couldn't be,

but as a women are threatened all the time by male masturbating, they're like, I don't understand. We're not threatened. We're hurt. We're disappointed, right? But women are disappointed all the time by the partners who watch porn. They're like, oh my god, they're threatened. We're disappointed, right? But women are disappointed all the time by the partners who watch porn.

They're like, oh my god, they're threatened. They're threatened, we're not threatened. We're like, why? Why? I'm hurt, why can't I do that? Because you don't vibrate. You just can't vibrate. Let's do it, let's do it.

Let's do it. There's actually ones that can attach to your penis, your fingers. We can turn your penis into a wrap, something around it. But then you guys won't bring it all together like that. No, we won't. Then you go. Like, you don't like that? You go, no, no, no, no. So you laugh, and then we take it off, and we leave that here,

and then we take it off your penis and we walk out the door. I know, it's all very confusing. Okay, we're gonna take some costs. But this is a good time. Right, I mean, it's, to me, it's like, we didn't talk about this at all,

and it did come out. No, we didn't know. I was just saying we talked about women in sexuality and how confused they are, but no, I don't think that's the difference. But this is the difference, that is a perceptual difference. And we're not teaching kids about the end of this.

Well, but it's the perceptual difference is so profound that we don't understand what each other are talking about. And here you and I are trying to open to it. And we can't do it because it is such a different experience for a man and a woman. I know. So people have to go easy on themselves, I think, too,

because it's like relationships, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a challenge if you choose to be a member of that. But that's just the sexuality part. I mean, you layer in all of our histories and psychologies and interpersonal craziness then here we go. That's why I'm really happy living alone with my 16 libraries. Truly and dating!

And then I have a choice to go home. Okay, what about... Anybody interesting? No, not yet. I have like three dates. I hope they're listening. I hope not. They are listening. Here's the problem. So I'm dating got. I mean, if they weren't upset enough about knowing they couldn't give you the certain sound with their penis. Now they're truly crushed. Well done.

Well, different sounds. It was like a little castraining all of us. I never knew that women make different noises too. Like, you know, the evolutionary speaking, wasn't it when they were with a man, a different man, it was like their mating call, like the more sound lot, this, when they're made noise louder, screams, it was because their partner was coming home and they were like, you know, they were, like, we're talking about like cavemen

when they were people. Yeah, yeah. So that's why, like, it's all about like mating calls. Yeah, it is. So I'm like mating call with my vibrator. No, I just think I'm like, but it's something that your actual mates are concerned about. They are listening, some of them,

but I, because they find out what I do. I know. And then they listen, and then he's like, so you're gonna bring, and I have a loob, he sent me like an emoji, he sent me an eggplant emoji as a joke today, of a date tonight. And then he's like, I wish there was a loob emoji. I'm like, we've never met, and you're talking to me

about loob, but you've been listening to my podcast. I'm in a appropriate, how dare you. So cancel, what are you doing tonight? I'm always getting In-appropriate. How dare you. So cancel. What are you doing in line? I'm always getting you to cancel dates, I don't know. I know. Okay, so Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew.com, by the way, is it? Oh yeah, thank you.

So we said everyone, I wouldn't have known that I had not listened to our answers. It's really interesting to listen. So let's not Dr. Drew.com, you've a million podcasts, which just go there and tell you that. Oh, this life got weekly infusion. We have Dr. Drew. Podcast, we have the Me and Adam podcast. So if you have anybody with fans of Love Line out there, Adam, we just go there. I got this live, got weekly infusion. We have Dr. Ru, podcast. We have the me and Adam podcast.

So if you have anybody with fans of Love Line out there, Adam, we're still together. We're contemplating Mike and I are contemplating doing one. They've been a lot of people. Because a lot of people, I love this love line. I love this love line. A lot of people, we have a lot of international listeners

who might not know about Love Line. So you guys are going to do, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe. You can just do it at the KBC, whatever. Yeah, we could, yeah, a good point. Okay, good. Should we give a shout out to our sponsors

and we'll be right back. Thank you everyone for listening to this show and thank you for supporting our sponsors. We love them and we only like talk about people and work with brands and sponsors that we actually use, try, believe in and we hope you will, a break back. I hope you guys are enjoying the episode.

The next half features Australian sex and relationship therapist Cindy Darnell and John Wyland, an expert speaker and teacher in the practices of masculine and feminine energy and spiritual intimacy. I'm here with Cindy Darnell, one of Australia's leading sex and relationship therapist. She flew around the world just to be here with me today. I know you were here for other reasons, but Cindy Darnal is one of Australia's leading sex and relationship therapists. She is amazing.

I've been hearing about her through my good friend L. Chase sex educator who's also here in the room for years And she just explained she said she's like the Emily Morrison Australia Cindy, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the show. We have a lot of listeners in Australia and You're just so impressive everything you've done I like you don't you know you're in prison website your blogs and all your your your amazing stuff You've going on it's super impressive and and I'm glad that you're here, and that you made it into the studio. Thank you.

I'm really glad to be here. I love, I love, love, love being in the US. So tell me a little about yourself, because you have an interesting niche, like connecting with couples and singles and working people in relationships. So can you tell me a little bit about how you, like I wanted to set up on your website?

Oh, good. I was like, wow, you really can help avoid anything. I really can. You actually see patients' clients, what do you have? I see clients, what I want, couples. One on one, two on one, yep. So yeah, tell me, tell me a little bit about how you work.

So I call myself a sex and relationship therapist. That's the most accurate description, I guess, for what I do. And what that means is I work in a therapeutic context, so I'm a qualified psychotherapist, but I specialised in sex and relationships because it's something that I think a lot of people still really struggle with, particularly in Australia and the world as well, because it is such a taboo, and a lot of relationships therapists tend to not want to do or they've not been trained in managing sex stuff, I think that the narrative

That is so common is that sex and relationships are the same thing and that if you're a relationship therapist Then you must also be a sex therapist and they're actually really quite different fields They're complementary, but they're not exactly the same like coffee and milk, you know They go great together, but they don't you don't need to have them together. They can have them separately So my interest in sexuality and relationships has been, I think it really started in sexuality about 20, something years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Annie Sprinkle and Barbara Carrellas when I was very, very young and Barbara Carrellas and I, in particular, formed a very strong friendship back then. so she's been a mentor to me for many, many years and so much of the work that I do

has been influenced by her ideas and values. And even though she's not a therapist, she's very much someone that I credit with kickstarting my career in Australia 20 years ago in this field. So I've gone on since then since people who don't know who Barbara Carellas is. So Barbara Carellas is from New York and she's the author of Urban Tantra among other things and she also is, I think, one of the world's leading Tantra experts and she's also one of the world's pioneers in teaching Tantra from a non-gender specific aspect. So she has sort of blown the whole idea of sort of divine masculine and divine feminine

out of the water and has really pioneered a whole new approach to tantra, which is all gender inclusive. And she's amazing. And her partner is Kate Bornsstein, who is well known for being a very well loved trans activist. And most recently on the Caitlyn Jenner reality show. Yeah. They have both been kind of my aunties, my six aunties. I love it. And they were here, but you've stay in touch with it over the episode. Absolutely. So it started with that and then you got your degree in therapy.

Yeah, so I went and studied therapy first. I was just a regular, you know, garden variety psychotherapist first. And then I found that the therapeutic community in Australia and internationally is, on many levels, quite conservative, especially when it comes to sex, because there's a lot of misunderstandings about even the concept of what is sex,

what is normal sex, who has it, who's allowed to have it, and the notions around all the taboos and what's allowed and what's not allowed really throws people. And because we've all pretty much grown up in some version of a sex negative culture, if you haven't learned to talk about sex in helpful and meaningful ways,

even if you're a trained therapist, you can be trying to be helpful with your clients and still make mistakes if you're feeding in to old ideas that are limiting and shaming of people's sexuality. And I don't just mean their orientation. I mean, their practices. What they actually do. But the relationship therapist, I agree with you. Because I feel like people that it is so different and that I actually think a lot from a lot

of my listeners who call and who email the show. I'm like, they just need to be able to sex therapy more than the relationship there. Yeah, well, that's complimentary. Absolutely. But the fact that you know both, and I understand that most relationships therapists really don't get a whole different. I really don't. How would you explain, I think you do it well on your website, but how could you explain

the difference, what someone would get from relationship therapy and sex therapy? Well, it would depend on the problem that they're having, because I think we all get tricked into different beliefs about sex and relationships because of the narratives that we are taught from a very young age. And this happens through movies and books and news and just common assumptions about how things are. And I think one of the biggest things is that intimacy and eroticism are the same. And they're really not. Because you can have intimacy that is very

sort of vulnerable, making heart connected, all that kind of, you know, yummy, mushy, security-oriented stuff. And that can actually put out the fire of eroticism for a lot of people. Pancellz it out, right? And that can be problematic for people in long-term relationships, particularly people in long-term monogamous relationships. How do we navigate that space between wanting to feel safe and wanting to feel hot, you know? So this is where it becomes a particular skill in dancing between those two points on the spectrum and what is possible and also engaging people in conversations about what's normal

because I think a lot of folks get very very invested in being normal as in contrast with being content that people really want to be normal. They're like, you know, they'll say to me how often should we be having sex? You know, and they want some sort of like, you know, 1.7 times a week or whatever. And instead, I will say to them, first of all, what kind of sex are you talking about? And then it's like, why do you want to be normal? Why do you care what other people are doing? What is it, what matters to you? And people get, it spends so much energy on trying to be normal and very little energy on trying to be content or trying to be happy. So true. And it takes them away, it distracts them

from where they could actually find the contentment that they're looking for. Absolutely. I mean, there's so many things in what you just said. I'm like, I want to talk about all of them. Because I do feel like, for first of all, we get hundreds of emails here a day questions. And I feel like everybody just,

at the end of the day, am I normal? Is it okay? Just tell me I'm okay. It's like, it's a number one question. Right? Like, is it normal? It's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. It's like, you did it in this question, right? Like, is it normal? It's like, how does it feel to you? Obviously, if it's harmful to your life, if it's something, you know, if you're,

for example, with porn, if you're watching too much porn, and it's a problem, if you can't go to work, and you can no longer have a direction. Then we could talk about it, but most things people are worried about are, they're fine, it's okay to express your sexuality, give people permission to find out what is hot for them and what works for them. So I think that's such a great, interesting way to describe it, why does everyone really care? I was like, you're fine,

you're fine, don't trip on it. But also when you're talking about working with couples, so like one of the top questions we get asked, and probably think that you deal with as libidos, like mismatch libidos and couples, because of what happens in that long-term relationship where intimacy does kind of stamp out desire and they all cancel it. We get close and come to become one, but we don't want to have sex with our partners and people always say, and then they go to a relationship therapist only and I'm like, what do you just keep talking about the same issues over and over again and you're never going to get down into what's really going on?

So I'm guessing with sex therapy, you kind of help them untangle that, probably remove resentments that have built up over time. Or, yeah. But then also in dealing with, it's interesting intimacy versus eroticism. So if they come to you and they're like, well, I don't even know what you mean,

but like do you help them identify what's erotic to them and shape fantasies and stuff like that? Absolutely. Well, yes, and I don't necessarily think that sharing fantasies is always the helpful thing to do. Not always, actually. So sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's not. But helping people work out what it is that turns them on.

That's in contrast. That's what I'm trying to find by fantasy. Yeah, in contrast with what it is they want to have in a relationship, because what we lust after sometimes can be very different to what we want in a partner, in a life partner. And that is I think a relatively common quandary for folks. And it's something that we are not equipped to manage because our sex relationships education at school doesn't navigate that ambiguity, you know. And for a lot of

people, what's hot is the ambiguity? Is that area of, oh, I don't know about this and that for a lot of people is sexy. Do you want to open a bank account with someone that makes you feel a bit unsafe, not necessarily, but it can be a real turn on to go, oh, you know, what is it about this person that's so intoxicating, but we're not gonna get a mortgage together. Exactly. So what is it with, I know it's not just one answer, but how do you help couples fan those flames again

and feel like get that ambiguity back when they're like, we've been living together and we own a house and have six children. Yeah. Look, it's not easy. I can tell you that, but it does involve what I call a degree of self-inquiry. So you need to go back and look at what your motivations for having sex are. Now, I think...

Yeah, you said, okay, let's go back to that. So, they have to think about... They have to think about what their motivation is. So, if they are looking for a motivation, that's what, you know, like lust oriented, that they want to feel that lusty kind of hot energy that you feel when you first meet somebody, you might not get that again in a long-term relationship. I'm not saying that you won't, but you might not.

So I often refer to it as that kind of intention of sitting at the, you're trying to get to a destination, but you're sitting at a bus stop and you're waiting for a bus that never comes, because you're waiting to feel in the mood, you're waiting to feel hot, you're waiting to feel excited and that bus isn't coming. And in the meantime, you're sitting at the bus stop and all these cars are going past, the nubas are going past and your friends are going past, taxis, everybody's going, you know, do you want to ride, do you want to ride?

And you're like, no, no, I'm fine. I'm just going to sit here and wait for the bus and you sit and you sit and you sit and you wait for years for this bus that never comes. And in any other situation, if you had a destination to get to, you would walk if you had to get there. But for some reason, when it comes to sex, we are so invested in having lust be the motivator that we will sit and wait for that bus even if it doesn't come.

Right. And we don't even investigate what? And we don't investigate other modes of transport. If we want to get to a place, we might have to get there in a bunch of different ways. And if that bus isn't coming, that's going to be okay. How else can we get there? Can we catch a ride with somebody else? Boobert, taxi, whatever. And that's the thing with sex is that folks get really locked into it. It has to look a certain way and it has to be a certain way. And it has to be like it is in the movies or it has to be like it was when I was 16

and it's like it's not going to be break that down you break down the next oh yeah it does I mean I was going to ask you about it because sex education here is abysmal we don't get any sex education so yeah I mean Australia because I told you like we do have so many hello to my Australian and all my listeners but, I was just wondering why the huge influx lately also of listeners, I don't know if like, like what you're saying is it's just, even your, it's less there, even less education, less, uh, less, less, but it's just, sex is not something that's necessarily socially talked about. I mean, there's a, there's a presence of sex in the media, but it tends to not be especially

robust. It tends to be very kind of light and it tends to be sort of very focused on being normal. There's not a great exploration of sort of alternative sex practices or alternative relationships. That is slowly starting to happen, but folks are still, you know, trying to play the normal game, I think, in a lot of ways. And slowly, slowly, that's going to start opening up. So glad you're there for that. And we get more access to more information. Right. Is there anything that you see as a difference

so between, um, you spend a lot of time in the States and Australia, that's kind of a different kind of approach to sex, besides not talking about it, is there anything, I don't know trends or things that come up lately, they're like, oh, that's interesting. In Australia. Um, I think. know trends or things have come up lately, they're like, oh, that's interesting. And Australia. I think. It's all the same.

It's pretty much all the same in terms of the information that's fed to us through the media is similar to what's going on here. But in terms of like when I teach classes in Australia and when I teach classes in the US, I'm often amazed at how much more open Americans are with their personal information in public spaces. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I was having a meal last year. I was like, no friends. No, no, no friends. No, no friends. No, no friends. No, no friends. I guess that's it. But really, it's just sex. It's just this big enigma with sex that I agree with what you're saying that we all think we will work on every other part of our life. Yeah. Well, anything we want to be good at, we want to strive, we want to achieve goals, like

we'll work really hard at our career on our health. Like we want to like run a marathon. We'll train for that, our spirituality. But sex is like this mystical thing that we believe should just be amazing and perfect all the time because it was really good during that glorious honeymoon phase the first few months and it's magic. People think of sex as being this magical thing and when it's gone, it's poof. And it's just like, I spend so much time, you know, as I'm sure you do just trying to

get people to, even just the basics of it, it's going to take some work, the bus you're going to have to look at where you're going, but it's like fun, it's like, this is an interesting kind of work, it's the best kind of work you could do, it'll help every other area of your life. So I just, I think it's a process, I mean, it never ends, you know,

I've been studying sex in various forms for over 20 years, and I still feel like I don't know everything. I know a lot of stuff, but then I think I get to a point where I know a thing and then it changes and I'm like, oh, actually, no, it's not that. Exactly. It's not me. That's my guest, John Wyland.

Hi, John. I just love bringing, just come up. I'm gonna bring you in now. I'm going to go through some things here, but John's awesome. I'm really excited to have you here today. Thank you. We were talking a little for the show

about all the questions we get asked from listeners and I was like, a lot of it is about like, how do we keep that sexual attraction alive and what is sexual attraction like if we don't have it at the beginning, can we build that? And then when you're in a long-term relationship, you know, we never want sex at the same time, how do we really connect, how do we enhance intimacy? And what John brings to the table is he's a coach and how would you explain your work exactly? Yeah, it's a difficult question.

I tried. I was like, I'm going to come up with one sentence and I said, I'm just going to ask him. Yeah. I teach sexuality. I teach men and women. So I teach sexuality, spiritual intimacy, is what I call it.

And embodiment, like what's it mean to be sort of bring yourself fully into your body and then have sex versus having sex as a way to kind of get into your body. Yeah, yeah, what that does. And then I also work with people teaching meditation. I teach movement. I teach all kinds of things in between.

But mainly it comes down to how do I deepen my relationship, how do I have a better relationship, how do we have better sex, how do I communicate with her, how do I make her happy? That happens a lot. Like, men really want to know, like, why can't I make her happy? I love her. She loves me, but she's always pissed. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but really, I feel like I'm responsible for my own happiness. Hmm. You want to mean that if someone is like me happy, I understand what you're saying, though,

that the women like, he's, we want our partners to fill all these things for us. Right. Right. Ultimately. Well, that's a tricky one, because self-sufficiency is a beautiful thing, right? But if you're too self-sufficient as a woman, right? So women are well ahead of men and actually passing men in the capacity to earn money in 20 years, women are going to make more money than men across the board, you know that.

When a woman is self-sufficient, everywhere in her life, fantastic, happy, everywhere in her life, fantastic. And the relationship can only be as good as the states that both people bring to it. So yeah, of course. However, what the masculine craves is to be able to lead someone who wants to trust him, some place that she can't lead herself. So what I see with women a lot is they're super successful.

Most of the women I work with are super successful, but they bring that self-sufficiency to the relationship and they don't offer the place where they actually need a masculine partner. It could be a feminine partner, right? It could either way, but they don't allow their self-sufficiency to drop away at the crucial moments of relationship and sex, and that actually pushes men away. Yes. So I see what you're saying, and I was kind of just being like, I'm responsible for my own happiness.

I get it. I be with many a man who I'm just like, oh, why, when I'm with you, I feel worse after and not saying that I haven't felt worse or guys haven't made me. But I do think that I am probably one of those women for sure. And I wasn't always like, you know, it's like at this point, I am, I take care of myself. I'm successful. I have really good friends.

I'm, God, I have a lot of issues too, but I could see that I could possibly be coming across that way. And then guys were like, well, I don't see where she needs me. And it's not necessarily like, I need you to pay my rent or I need you to, but in other ways that I could soften. And I always thought of myself as like, but I'm so feminine, I'm so, you know, but there is a certain energy, the way I move,

the way I talk, the way I, you know, where I would offer to men. So what do you tell these women? Where would you start with me? So just to answer therapy session, do you guys all mind? Where would you start with me? Let's just turn this to a therapy session. Do you guys own mind? Because I need a little help. So, um, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, so there's nothing wrong with that. I know. Yeah, it's all, it's all great to be, you know, in, in the stages of

relationship, we go from this place of, give me what I want, right? Like, give me what I want to this place of, let's make it about us. All right, let's make it. I'm sufficient, you're sufficient. We're whole human beings. Let's make it. I'm sufficient, you're sufficient. We're whole human beings and that's beautiful. But what happens when it's created in that place where both people are Self-sufficient and they're kind of living their own lives, but they don't work on the what we call sexual polarity, meaning the celebration of their opposites.

Then they become like magnets that rub against each other. Right? And if you take a magnet that rubs against another magnet and they were attracted, but they're just constantly, it'll take away the attraction. So normally what happens is that the attraction starts to diminish because the masculine partner we're talking about women specifically. The masculine partner wants to be, okay, so we'll dive right in. The masculine partner wants to penetrate. Like the masculine in me, the masculine partner wants to be, okay, so we'll dive right in. Yeah, that's a good idea. The masculine partner wants to penetrate.

Like the masculine in me, the masculine in you, like the masculine wants to penetrate. We wanna penetrate the world, we wanna penetrate energy, we wanna penetrate. And if there's not an invitation to penetrate some part of you, like not your business, not your, you know, not that that you're handling just fine But the depth of your heart right? Oh

Open yeah, oh and like honorable yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So annoying that again, okay, so when you're self-sufficient and you're holding that back then we're like What the fuck am I doing here? Where's where's the you know we actually get nourished by your like, am I doing here? We actually get nourished by your opening surrender, that kind of thing. So we'll talk about embodiment in it, because I want to go back to the masculine and feminine. So when I was thinking about this show, I was like, I could talk to you for six hours. So masculine and feminine energy, though, I think that we all sort of understand that we all have a masculine and feminine within us. And sometimes, I, for example, we were saying, I might lead with the masculine and how do

I play with my feminine. Is this something that we could kind of explain, go to a little more, finish this and then kind of move on something else? Yeah, and it's really good to define these terms. Yeah, let's define them. Yeah, you're right. Everybody has a masculine and feminine. But at our core, we have one or the other.

So those of, you know, those listeners, man or woman, right, who prefer to be penetrated, like prefer to be pinned with some, you know, buy somebody that they trust, ravished. Right. So we're talking sexually, apparently. Yeah, so you're sexual. Now we're back, you talk about sexual, not my heart. Yeah. Well, it's both.

Oh, right, true, true. No disconnection. Okay, penetrate me all over. Yeah, so, so, you know, the great masculine gift is that I'm going to ravish your heart through your body. Like, that's the, that's the masculine gift to the feminine, going to ravish your heart through your body. That's the masculine gift to the feminine. But for a feminine being, she prefers to be penetrated, she prefers to be ravished. Well, the masculine being prefers to do the ravishing, prefers someone to surrender to his leadership or his heart or his consciousness.

And so that's how you can tell what your essence is, right? What you prefer sexually. Now a lot of people these days want to go back and forth, and that's awesome. But if they don't nourish their essence and they don't live in their essence, then there's this sense of dissatisfaction, there's this sense of not feeling like they're really being

could be who they are. And they don't attract the opposite. So what I see with a lot of women is that their essence is totally feminine and they want somebody that they trust to lead them, relationally, sexually, that kind of thing. Take me someplace I can't take myself, right? That's the value. Yeah, please, like this is what I hear from a woman all over the place. Take it. Take me someplace. I can't take myself emotionally, sexually, you know, lead me that way, right? And, but to do that, they've got to be a magnet for somebody that wants that.

And so sexual polarity is the celebration, actually, of the essence, the masculine essence in a manner of woman, but typically it's a man, and the feminine essence in a manner of woman, but typically it's a woman. And when you have those two extremes magnified, it creates an arc of what we call sexual polarity, like the South Pole and the North Pole. Right. Yeah, the Yinn and Yon. I mean, this is not new stuff.

People have been talking about this for thousands of years. Exactly. Yeah. That's why this is also... Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's tried and true. Yeah, so... We're working on that. So that's why many long-term relationships, because I know this is a question visitors have, why they're always asking, why is there no attraction, right? Because they're not, they have a lot of resonance, which is beautiful.

Resonance creates intimacy. Intimacy is the, the, we're the same. Like, I'm human, you're human. I have a heart, you have a heart. I might be afraid, you're afraid. But that's not very hot, right? I mean, it's beautiful, and it's, it's, it's one pillar of sexual intimacy, but the other pillar has to be, let's celebrate the difference. Like, what makes you feminine at your very core?

What's the essence of feminine? And the essence of feminine from where, from how I've studied and how I teach it, is the essence of feminine is I move love through my body. Right? And the more I can move love through my body, the more someone with a masculine essence, whose essence is, I'm consciousness, right? Your listeners might like might break out right now, but I'm going to go there. I'm going to go there, go there, go there.

But I am. Stick with that, guys, I press. I am at the essence, at the essence, that which didn't ever change it. Like I don't change. Like the masculine and me is the same always. The feminine is changing all the time. So you get this, that's why in workshop we teach the men to actually be still and the women to move because you put those two together. And you can see it, it's just like immediate, energetic, immediate

sexual polarity, immediate heat. And most couples don't practice this, they're doing the same thing at the same time, again and again. Right. And they don't actually practice sexual polarity, which is like any skill playing piano, doing yoga, you know, anything. Anything. You have to practice it. Yeah, I always say that it's like sex is a skill. I think we all assume for some reason that sex, we should automatically have all the answers, know how to be really good at sex, whatever that means for you, and it shouldn't be work. And what else in your life? What else in your life?

Are you great at? That's really important to you that you didn't have to work at, and it's a skill. And so it's okay. And that's the other thing that is interesting after 12 years of doing this and reading all of your emails and talking to everyone is that people are truly every single day surprised that it happened. They're like, what? We were sex was so great, Emily, the first three, six months year. And now it's not what I did. The first person that it's happened to, right? Because people are like, I don't understand and I can't get it back. And this is part of the practice.

This is, this is what you happen. I'm like, let's prepare for it. And then here's what we do about it. Yeah. Well, there's so many reasons why that happens. Right. I mean, you know, they've proven now that once you commit to somebody, like once you move in together, decide to get married or have a baby or some kind of commitment, you're destined to relive your childhood programming. Like it's now proven. So we're gonna attract people that do the same shit that our family did. We're going to, if we don't attract them, we're gonna take the person who comes

and we're gonna actually make them do that. Right, so we're feeling prophecy. We're gonna make them do that. A Mago therapy is a beautiful approach to this and they've explained all this. So we're going to do that. A Mago therapy, yeah, I am AGO. Right.

And so what to do is, no one, it's not a problem. We all do it, but most of us are unconscious about it. Exactly. So we got to get conscious. Like, oh, I'm doing this thing. I'm making her do the thing that absolutely kills me. Or I'm making him do the thing that is going to ultimately make him do what my deepest wound is, and most of us are unaware that we're doing it.

Once we're aware we're doing it, then we can make art with it, we can play with it, we can have, we can fuck from there, we can do all kinds of cool things, but if we're unaware, then we're just going to unconsciously recreate it. Thank you for listening and thanks to my amazing team, Ken, Jamie, our intern, Shannon, and Jenny, producer, Lark, and Michael. And thank you everyone so much for subscribing for the show, supporting it, reviewing us on iTunes. We appreciate it.

Was it good for you? Email me feedback at sexwithamlee.com. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO you