Sex With Emily - Sharing Secrets with Sarah Brokaw

Episode Date: January 27, 2018

On today’s show, Emily is joined by therapist and author Sarah Brokaw, host of the podcast Shared Secrets to talk about the ups and downs of relationships and the dynamics between couples. Emily and Sarah discuss how couples therapy actually works to set the foundation for a healthy relationship, how to get past a cheating incident, the real impact technology and social media are having on our relationships, and the right way to talk about what’s not working (sexually) with a partner. Thank you for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: We-Vibe, Magic Wand, Fleshlight, Sportsheets Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm joined by Sarah Broca, host of the podcast, Shared Secrets. We're talking coupled dynamics, relationship ups and downs, and of course, answering your questions. Topics include how therapy actually works with couples to set the foundation for healthy relationships. Moving past a cheating incident, the real impact technology in social media is having on all of our relationships and the right way to talk about what's not working sexually with your partner. All this and more, thanks for listening. That mock our sacred institutions. Betrubized, they call them in a fight on day. Hey, Avaline, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken, he thinks you're kind of cute.

The girls got a hair stand. Oh my! The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common, what do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I want to feel so drunk.

Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Avaline's not the kind of girl you just play with. I'm really excited to welcome my guest Sarah Broca. She's a therapist, author, and host of the podcast shared secrets. Hi Sarah. Hey Emily. Hi, this is so fun.

It's so much fun. I'm glad you're here in my office. And in my office. And I was excited to be a guest on your podcast A few weeks ago, which everyone can check out shared secrets. So you are a therapist. Yes We're gonna get into your podcast in a second, but tell me about how you get into therapy. Hi therapy I'll tell you it started off when I was 10 years old and I had a piano teacher named Colleen and Every week she would come in on Wednesday afternoon

and say, okay, did you practice? And I said, no, I didn't practice. But let's just chitchat. I wanna have a conversation with you. So she would roll her eyes and I said, Colleen, do you have a boyfriend? She said, I do have a boyfriend. It's a, what does he do?

Well, he's an analyst. And so it was an analyst and she said, analyst, he, what he does is he analyzes people's dreams. I'm like, oh, that's fascinating. So the lesson ends. I didn't learn any more piano. I didn't practice for the week, but I did write out my dream. So she comes back a week later.

I'm only 10, mind you. She comes back a week later and she goes, did you practice the piano? And I said, I didn't, but I wrote out the dream that want your boyfriend to analyze. Love it. So at the end of the piano, my mom comes in and says, it's not making any progress. And she's like, she'll never be a pianist. But most likely she will be a psychoanalyst

or a psychotherapist. Wow, at 10. At 10. That's amazing. And so did it click with you then, really, too? Oh, yeah. So you've always just been fascinated. Fascinated.

Fascinated with the people's minds and how people relate to each other. And I always say on a cellular level, we're really all the same. Right. And that's really what a lot of your work has been about. Yes. Kind of like bridging the gap so we're not all living alone in isolation and sharing our seas, sharing our secrets, sharing our stories. And so you see a lot of couples, individuals, you see everything, right?

But I'm fascinated by your work with couples because you've been over 10 years. Over 10 years I've been dead over 10 years. I've been working yes with couples So I'd off with specialized training at the Ackerman Institute in New York Then I did more training with the Gopman Institute. I love that you did Gopman I have so many questions you at the I mean you've had extensive training with with Trauma mm-hmm and so but let's talk about First I love the Gopman training. Yes, there a way that you could I talk about, first of all, I love the gutmint reading. Yes. Is there a way that you could, I talk about in the show sometimes, but.

How do I describe it in my nutshell? Yeah, I just feel like it's the most fascinating work in studies I've seen around. Well, the reason why, well, for me, John Gottman is where it has been. Brilliant. Brilliant. Right.

But he also has his wife, Julie Gottman, who's the clinical psychologist. So she's more the clinical part of the Gottman Institute. John is the scientist. And for me, I'm such an evidence-based person. I want to have evidence as to how these schools of thought really work. Right? Before I can just employ them with the clients that I work with. And so I read all the books, you know, the

marriage clinic and like the certain principles of a happy marriage. And then I decided to take some of the classes that he was teaching online. And I thought, okay, this is so up my alley. So I did level one, level two, and then I did level three, which is more intensive learning from John and his wife, Julie. And everything that they had lectured made absolute sense.

And then we would practice whatever they were teaching us. And I thought, well, this makes sense. But also what I thought was really fascinating is that they have this very labor intensive questionnaire to really understand the nuances in a person's marriage. And it's things that you can't get over months or years of working with the couple. But this is just the fastest, most effective way in getting information. I don't think there's other institutes or therapists who are doing that. I've never heard anything that was that effective.

But you're saying that these forms, couples fill them out. Yes. So that's the therapist fills it out. The couples fill it out. The couples fill out. So all I have to do is just go online and send the questionnaire to my couple. And then each partner will fill out the questionnaire separately. It will say, and now get the results back,

and it'll say, these are the strengths, these are the weaknesses. These are possible ideas, how you work, but you need to be a professional. You can't just do it. I can't just do it with my friends. You guys aren't doing well. That is exactly the thing.

Exactly. You need to analyze the data and stuff. Exactly. I'd love that in a lot of it turns out, strengths, weaknesses, I mean, the thing I'm thinking of is their headlines, which is basically that they can predict the predictors of divorce. Yes, I think that it's something they recommend to all my clients, where they're ready to graduate

from the therapy in my office. And they say, well, if we need more resources, I always have them go to the government website. There's all these workshops for couples. There's weekend retreats. They do. We can retreats are huge for couples. I always say vacation, sex, take a vacation and take a weekend retreat.

We'll see it. It will change your relationship. Yes, exactly. Speaking of changing people's relationships, in your work with couples, have you noticed any trends lately or anything that's been happening or has it always been the same? And if so, what are the top issues that come up?

Number one, I know a big one, which is there's been a sea change with how women perceive themselves in marriages or relationships. I think, let's just say it's 15 years ago or even 10 years ago, I think there are a lot of women when I was just starting to practice, I think that a lot of women historically really felt like they didn't have any freedom. There was no platform for them to explore who they were as women. I think that there was still the idea that they had to reach certain milestones in order to become the ideal woman.

And that was, you graduate from college that if you're lucky, you're supposed to get married, you're supposed to have kids, then you're supposed to find a job where you kind of reverse that. But you had to make sure to reach the certain milestones. Right. Now, I think what has happened is that women have been given a lot more freedom.

And I don't know what we say things to Cheryl Sandberg, or we say things to Maryl Streep, or we say things to Hillary Clinton, remember those women who are, you know, who have given us the permission to find our freedom. It's emboldened a lot of women who have been in relationships. So here they are, they've been given the platform for freedom, the poor men have not been given the lessons that we've been given a long time ago of to find who they are as people. And they don't have the vocabulary, right? And they're stuck.

And then what I hear a lot from men is that it's not resentment, but it is resentment, but they don't want to admit it. But the resentment is, my wife, my girlfriend, my partner has been given all the freedom to explore who she wants to be. If she wants to be a mom, she can choose to be a mom or not be a mom. Does she want to go to work? She can choose what career path she has an option. And then I hear from men, I'm not given that option.

My option is usually become a provider and to be to be an effective provider, you have to have a high paying job. And if you don't have that high paying job, then you're really not an effective provider. Now, unfortunately, they can't really express those emotions because no one's given them the vocabulary. Right. So that's where they come in. And that's the trend I have noticed. That they're feeling, and I would say, is that sort of like what we used to call, and maybe we still do the midlife crisis, maybe with some men that they're feeling and I would say is that sort of like what we used to call and maybe we still do the Mid-life crisis maybe with some men that they're thinking like crisis Which is when men start realizing that there's something more and they can't put their finger on it

Like they have everything they want but yet they're sort of this yearning and I believe it's for men who want to be vulnerable Want to have intimacy want to understand what their issues are but they've never given been given a platform our place to I Think it's happening now at all ages. Yeah. Yeah. Third, I don't think it's just, I don't think it's just happening in your 40s or your 50s. That men, even younger, they're like, okay,

emotions and vulnerabilities are okay. I think younger men are now given the permission to learn the vocabulary, whereas men in my age group and older are just trying to learn the vocabulary, whereas men in my age group and older are just trying to learn how to use. Exactly. Dating is meant. They're just like learning how to even, and we say the vocabulary we're talking about, emotions

and feelings and like guard down and searching and having just knowing how to communicate. Even saying the word processing, right? We process this for a minute. And they're looking at the health process. What does that mean? So then what I'll do is I have to think, okay, if he's working in an office, or if he's working somewhere, I'll use words like what's your exit strategy?

Business oriented terminology. Exactly. That's the way in which they can start to understand. And I just, I'm not dumbing it down. No, I get it. We hear things very differently as men and women and that's a big part of it. What do you see in your practice about technology right now? Is it really as big of an impact on couples, do you think, and social media? Oh, yes. And are you hearing this and you're telling me

what you're hearing and seeing? Well, I think it's not just recently. I think that's also been happening for a few years, which is that it's very tempting to have, And I hear a lot too, because it's denial, which is, you know, there will be one partner who will establish a wonderful relationship with the colleague at work, whether it's the man or woman, or woman or woman or man and man, and they will justify and say,

well, we had to be in contact with each other via text because we had to both work on this document, we had to get an email to one another. Do you really need to do a 10 o'clock at night? But somehow using that phone or using the computer and so on, using email and texting, it looks like it's more in the sense, more business-like. And it's common to me, I'm like, yeah, but it's still an emotional affair. It's like those microcheeing or emotional affairs that come. It is. It's an emotional affair. Right. It's like those microcheeing or emotional affairs

that come right. It's a emotional affair, but it's more insidious because the emotional affair historically could happen on the phone, right on the landline, or you're meeting up with a person, which creates a lot more work and a lot more line, a lot more creativity in terms of why you have to meet well out with that person.

Right. Having the phone and having email makes it seem like it's totally innocent. Right. No one's going to see this. I'm sending this. I'm on my app. It doesn't seem that I'm really happening.

Good. Now what about, yeah, I know. And I just feel like there's going to be a little bit of a backlash against technology. Or just people are going to start putting rules in place for themselves too to restrict the time and like charge the phone outside the bedroom and the TV in the bedroom and all those things, which I think are very important. What about sex and couples? Oh man.

Common themes. Oh porn. Okay, so this is interesting because you mentioned porn in our podcast and I struggle with porn. Personally watching love porn? I do and I do as a therapist as well, because I've worked with the quality now, it's a volunteer, and I've met a lot of former victims of sex trafficking, and they've been important.

So for me, I have this very different view than maybe someone who wants to watch it just to kind of get themselves to the latest against the mood. I look at it as, these poor, you know, subjective women out there who are struggling and surviving. Right. A lot of the bar. Right. Unless it's like, you know, consensual porn. No. porn. Right. But is there such a thing? Right. Is there such a thing as consensual porn? I mean, there is. Yes, there is. There's like, you know, we're calling it female,

friendly, porn, or ethical porn. And there is porn that's a lot of it's made for women by women, by women, but also just that they kind of sign off on all of these bottom line issues. Yeah, there was consent, safe environment. But what about your struggle with it? Is that you're more like watching it and you're like, and thinking about the women who I've met

who've been victims of sex trafficking. So I'm thinking, if I'm gonna watch that, I'm thinking about my friend Autumn, who's been victims of sex trafficking for over 15 years. So that's where I kind of, that's that. No, I get it, right. But if a couple says we need it to feel titillated and that they're both on the same page about it, great.

So sexually though, Ms. Machel Bito's, we get a lot of that. Oh man, this is something that's also come out of a lot with the couples coming into my practice. If I'm working, it's really, it's couples from like 45 and over. Women are very comfortable in talking about going through paramedics at 45 and over and talking about vaginal dryness

and talking about how they don't have as much of a sex drive as they used to, but they're willing to work on it. Right? They're going to get the estrogen cream. They're going to have sex more often just to keep themselves lubricated. Men will not talk about erectile dysfunction. No, they will not talk about their penises at all.

No, I know. They will talk about the doctor about it. Yes. It's one of the first things I bring up with them. I said, your partner, a female partner, wife, girlfriend, partner is bringing this up. And it's something that she could be ashamed about, but she's choosing not to be ashamed about it.

Men, on the other hand, I'm like, what is causing you to not want to, yes, as already, I think the instinct to be protective and be ashamed of. If you think also about advertising, if you look through magazines, I'm just thinking of like, good housekeeping, call it the Paulton magazine,

there are these wonderful ads for like Paramount of Pause or like, you're having her full sex, but you see two very attractive women in their late 40s or early 50s like having conversations about using the certain supplement or product to make your sex better.

But if you see ads for a reptile dysfunction, you're seeing an 80 year old man. Right. Exactly. I'm not that guy. Right. The two guys at the bar going, Hey, buddy, last night I couldn't get it up. Well, here, that's what you could do. Oh, well, that's what I want. I do, I do feel like this is the time where men are realizing that there's more places for them to go and more, you know, have that dialogue and it's okay to be open and emotional and hopefully I know that you're helping them. I'm hoping.

I think that the men who've come into my practice have felt comfortable enough with me to have this conversation. Well, it sounds like it. And so people feel very comfortable talking to you as I did on your podcast, I loved it. And so let's talk about shared secrets, your podcasts and how I came up with that.

Yes. I hear all about that. You really? You've interviewed so many fascinating people. So everyone has to check it out. I know it's very well done. Well, producing just your greatness. I just love it so much. And it all stemmed from I think around three years ago when I was really burned out with therapy. And I had to figure out why am I so burned out? Why am I so burned out? Is it compassion fatigue? And it's not. It wasn't compassion fatigue. It was about the tremendous amount of unnecessary shame that people were bringing in to my office about the secrets that they're holding on to. They felt like they didn't need to be secrets. And then there was a lot of...

Because they're only as sick as your secrets. That's true. The A term, right? But it's so, that's a part of it, right? And then I also noticed that because of the introduction of social media, which I do appreciate, use Facebook, I use Instagram, I did also notice that people are so good at presenting personas,

but it's only personas. It's a brand. It's it really your authentic self. Right. You mean right exactly. Everyone has the perfect life on Facebook. And we all do it at some point or another. I don't care who you are.

We all do at some point to present ourselves in a certain way, but it really may not be who we are feeling at that moment. So with that, I thought, what would happen if I just took an opportunity to interview people who I've met at parties, at dinner parties, you know, such as yourself. Right. We don't remember. We had fun together. Yes. A party somewhere. Years ago. Right. Or you know, we, I find, you know, people who I've met on Facebook or people I've known for years where they share the secret. Like, are you willing to get on the podcast

with me and talk about your secret? And they're like, yes, because it gave me so much freedom. Right. It gave you freedom. Right. Because you're opening up for that. And they're opening up to me. Right. And it's so cathartic for them to realize when you take the power away by like sharing it. Exactly. And of course, you know, with the shared secrets, I also want to incorporate levities. So there's some podcasts that are not about the deep talk secret that's being revealed like I interview Yeah, tell me about some of your favorite ones or some secrets that impacted you both of those oh god There's a couple of them that really in fact, well, okay, so let's just start off with this woman who's a good friend My name Lauren and she talks about the secret to the taller thinner skinnier taller thinner younger you and talks about the foam roller

Right that to me was more just fun, but it's not a secret secret, right? Using the foam roller like, you just fall on the edge and she talks about it and she talks about the fascia, all that. That's great, right? But it's not psychologically oriented at all. But I didn't feel like I listened to a lot of your podcasts. I felt like they were secrets, but the way you, the way you, you know, I didn't want to make it, I didn't want to exploit them, and I didn't want to make it a therapy session. I want to make it more of a dialogue. That was my intention.

One of the ones that was actually also very powerful, but he can't give his last name. Okay. But it's also because I think it's part of the AA code of ethics. He was more than willing to do it. It's like I just can't do it. He's a good friend of mine. We knew each other in Japan in our 20s. We knew each other in our 30s. And then I hadn't seen him. He kind of disappeared.

And he's a guy who went to USC. Take a USC. He wants to use USC. He was at the President of its fraternity, dynamic, erudite, just a dynamo. He got hooked on Crystal Mata 43 and just thought the face of the earth and you would never ever imagine. So that's one that really greatly impacted me when he told his story because he's also so articulate. Another one that I think was really impactful was a woman who was formerly a man, transgender, named Natalie Egan, who was a tech exec at LinkedIn, married formerly his college sweetheart Cornell, had three kids, but was profoundly depressed and started to come to terms with her, now her sexual identity after seeing the Caitlin Jenner interview. She had no idea that she was transgender.

She just thought she was just sick, a sick, sick human being. And so talking to her family about it and then obviously doing more research on it, she started the transition, told at that point his wife and this separated. There's been a lot of pain, a lot of hurt, but also a lot of growth. And so Natalie tells her story. So many people had reached out to me and said, that is me. That is me, or I would never have imagined that there's a person who happened to be kind of an alpha male at LinkedIn.

Exactly. Who's that? Right. You think you have a picture in your mind, but Bruce Jenner, if you think Bruce Jenner was also athlete, right? Yeah. Like my Cheerio's box isios box, he was everything. Exactly.

And, right. So, let's about sharing secrets. So, let's go back to that because, I feel like, oh yeah, I can never. Yeah, sharing secrets is a good concept, but I can't tell you when my secret, you know, let's talk about just more about the theory behind or the rationale we had actually.

I mean, like, when people say, like, everyone has a secret, right? But then you're like, but I'm not gonna tell my secret. Right, exactly. Like, what is the power? What have you seen kind of, like, everyone has a secret, right? But then you're like, but I'm not going to tell my secret. Right. Exactly. Like, what is the power? What have you seen kind of catharsis about sharing a secret? Because I think the way that I look at it, what?

So you know I wrote this book called 42. Yeah. I want to talk about that too. Okay. And when people say, well, how do you go from writing a book 40, what's the connection between 42 and shared secrets? And I say, you can't find your 42d unless you come to terms with the secrets because the secret is what prevents you from growth.

Let's talk about some of those common secrets though that people think would. For example, so in your book 42, you were turning 40. And you were like, I, having dread facing that birthday cake and thinking like, I wanted to talk to women and see how they're facing it. Right. So what is on this? So what are those common secrets? I think one was about wanting to have kids.

That they really want to have kids, but their secret was the fear of doing it on their own or not knowing if they'll ever find a partner or are they fertile. And it's something that so many women have not been able to have had the courage to say out loud, how do I go down this path? And so as I call it researchers,

me search, I was going through the same exact, my secret was also that. I ended up not going to my 20 year reunion because I wasn't married and I didn't have kids and I did not want to show up and be handed. So my secret was the embarrassment. The shame you have around that you didn't live exactly. Ticking off this thing that we said women have to meet these milestones. It sounds. So, then that's one, at that moment, I call this sparkly moment, at that moment, I said, okay, here I am, you know, talking to all these clients and all these other women out there,

saying, find a sense of courage, face life with a sense of confidence and curiosity, rather than fear and regret, and I was doing exactly opposite. So, wow, at that moment, it wasn't aha moment, even I don't believe in aha moments, I just kind of believe in moments. And I just said, okay, I had to really have a good dialogue with myself. I said, what is my fear? My fear is about, will I never have a child? And then how do I take the word fear of replacing with curiosity? How can I have a child? So I did it. I didn't. Do you talk, I mean, how much do you talk about your experience with this? So that's all the time. Okay, so tell me about you. So you all the time went through the process of,

it's a beautiful, beautiful journey that I went on. It started off at, you know, broken up with the boyfriend. I mean, I got to LA with it just turned out to be an absolute disaster. But the simple way you got your hair. You got my hair here. Exactly. Exactly. I was in the midst of writing the book.

And then I thought, my God, I just turned 40. And here I am writing this book for people to, you know, women to feel empowered. But why am I not really focusing on what I need to focus on? So it was, let me see, man, I was like mid, I think it was like in the middle of my 40th year that I went to California at cryobank and I bought some vials of sperm and then that was fine. And then one of my friends, I said, I want you to come over to my husband's house because

we're celebrating its birthday. So I'm like, okay, I'll go. I went begrudgingly, I walked in, and they said, we want you to meet this guy. And in walks is beautiful, Eurasian man, I know he's Chinese, and his name was Adrian, and I'm like, oh dear God, he's beautiful.

We ended up talking, we had this intense, intense connection with each other, and I gave him my phone over thinking that he was going to call me. And I'm like, oh, you can call me. So I ended up calling him a few days later and we kept hanging out and hanging out. And we were coming up with an idea for a Bravo TV show. But I also knew I had such a crush on that. So one of my friends said, you know what? I think you just need to make the move.

I think that you can talk about your TV show and talk about your treatment, but really what you want to do is to do so, I'm like, right, kiss him. So exactly. So I said, okay, so I called him. I said, why don't you come over in 20 minutes and we'll talk about our treatment. He's like, great.

So I got myself in the black dress. I got a bottle of wine for liquid courage. I lit the whole house up in the candles. He comes into the house, we're sitting out, chit-chatting, and then something comes up about, I don't know what it was about, like what do we tell the producers about, we're not a couple, we're just friends, but what are you going to say about your relationships, trying to hint to get an idea where his status was and he goes, well, I'm glad that you're asking, I'm by.

And I just kind of sit back and like, what? I'm like, you're by. And then I said, do you have a boyfriend or are you by? I said, now I have a boyfriend. I said, and then my mom, I'm like, when you're gay. Then I started to laugh and just, why are you laughing?

And I said, I'm laughing because I got dressed up in this way. I had so many pounds of the candles. I was ready to give you a big smooch. Not happening. So from that moment on, we just became that much closer on my 41st birthday is when I proposed to him and asked for his phone. Wow, okay. And so it's 41st now, almost 48. And so it took

us a good year. We did IVF. And now we have a beautiful kid. Now initially, I'm just telling the listener out there, initially, what you have to do to go, when we made that decision, it's a lot more difficult than it used to be. But now it's a lot easier because of the difficult process we have to go through. You had to, I, even last eight, five years. And so I as the mother to be had to hire a lawyer for myself and hire a lawyer for him, that's the first step.

The second step is that you have to go to a psycho-affertility psychologist to see if you're using a direct-on. If you're not using an unknown donor, this doesn't matter, it's irrelevant. Then the psychologist says, well, what if you're in this situation, what if he's in this situation, how you can handle it? She, at the time, could determine whether I was psychologically sad, and if he was psychologically sound.

Obviously she said, you both find. Thank God, okay. Then the lawyers come in. And this is where it got litigious. So my lawyer is saying, well, you don't want to have this man be part of your life. He is the direct donor. He's the donor.

You don't want him to come in. He's your friend too. So it was, it got very complicated. And I think that his lawyers and all of your rights are going to be taken away here. So, do you really want to sign up for this? So we both started to really tense with each other and it took him a good year for him to sign that contract.

So, there I am waiting. I'm looking at my eggs, dissipating from the airing mud. And then finally, it was, I said, what do you think you need Adrian and his name? What do you need in order to feel convinced that this is the right choice? Because I need to talk to your dad. And I think he felt that he need to talk to my dad because I know his dad passed away. He didn't want to get any opinions from women. He need to hear from my man.

I got to be a man. Yeah. So my dad said, get on it. Right. We're fine. You're fine. Let's make this happen. And now he's an active part of your

Yeah, and that was part of the thing though that he was not gonna be part of it But then my son at 15 months are to call him daddy. Yeah, all right. That's a beautiful But just it's an anomaly because everyone says wow how do I get that stuff right? But I guess the message is now that set up just that if women are listening this and they're feeling it like there's You know, it's okay Also if you if you don't want kids like I've never had that urge to have kids. Exactly. And I never even had the felt that it was, and I felt okay with that.

I'm like, obviously, I love kids. I always give you, I love kids. People think I don't love kids. I mean, no, but it just was never a choice of mine. I never felt that urge. But I think a lot of women do. And in regards to what you feel you're fine. Yeah, that's exactly what that's everything. Well, this is different time too. Like letting

people know like it's okay if you don't want to. I think that women for so long felt like, yeah, we have to hit all these balances. And then I'll be happy and complete as a human wish. Exactly. Is that true? And the book also talks about like you do a lot about in 42, which you will can get from Amazon, Amazon, everywhere, about destigmatizing aging. So what did you learn about women and their attitudes towards aging? The exemplars of 42 are women who were not exemplars in trying to find. I guess, maybe what you found to be this common struggle and what you were hoping to get.

I think the exemplars of 42, the way that I look at it. In order to really have a sense of 42, that to me is you harness these five core values. And that is having a sense of grace, connectedness, accomplishment, adventure, and spirituality, with yourself. With yourself. But what I always say to the person when they say, well that's these, and I'm like, yeah, but the minute you hear someone else's voice when you're defining that value, that's not your value. Right. Well, that's a thing we got to get rid of these voices. Exactly. And our parents from society. Exactly. So how do you do that? How do you really spend the time to define those values?

And once you're able to do that, then age, you probably really matter. It won't matter. And you know that you're living your purpose and it's more defined. Exactly. Exactly. It won't matter. You know that you're living your purpose and it's more defined. Exactly. And it got you out of your slump and now you're doing the podcast. You said the 42 led to the podcast. The 42 led to the podcast, but when people say, well, how is there's

what's the connection? I say, well, my theory is that you cannot harm those five core values and define those values if you're holding onto the secret. Because you're not being true. You're not being entirely true to yourself. Are there common besides the child, I'm just wondering if there's any common secrets that you found that women are holding.

Like besides the kids thing, was there anything else? Secrets. There's a common thing. Not being happy in their marriage. Right. Really not being happy in their marriage. And they have actually being able to say like,

it's okay, and I could do something about it. Yeah, it's gonna work on it. And really, really being stuck there. And partly, it's about aging. I think a lot of women who have talked who've gotten married way too young, and it doesn't mean that all women who've gotten married in the 20s did it to young,

but I think that there are a number of women who were not probably emotionally evolved How could you be in your 20s? What's your take on this about the like if you had to say about the right time to get married? For people I know people get angry. I say don't get me in your 20s and I'm not angry Don't no no no no no, it's not that the way that I look at it is I think marriage to me I mean, I'm not married right and maybe there's a reason why I'm not married. Right here, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that I'd look at my parents who got married at 21 and 22, right?

And so I asked them, I'm like, what is the secret? And they say marriage in effect is with a stranger about whom you have a magnificent hunch. And they just so happen to get lucky. I'm magnificent, that's a beautiful quote. Right? So they, and they're still together. 54 years. Please see then, That's a beautiful quote. Right? So they still together. 54 years.

See then, how do you ever live up to that? Right? Right. So I look at it as it is, it's a sacred contract that you have with someone else. And it's also a gamble. You may outgrow the other person. You may, and I think that's what's also

happening with a lot of women now, which is, they now have been given the platform to find their freedom. And so then they think, well, if I'm given the platform to find my freedom and I feel emboldened, why am I necessarily with this man? And then I think the men feel threatened by that. Absolutely. And it's true, right, that most women, it's mostly women who leave marriages, more than men. I'm not saying that they want to know the exact statistic. I've heard this and I feel like in my own sample of life of friends and people who are divorced, it's typically the woman who's kind of pushing it because I feel like a lot of times men might be more complacent with it or they again,

they don't have the language around what's wrong. I think also they, I feel there's been a little bit more latitude given to men that they have extramental affairs or I don't know. What's your take on them? Or what's your take on them? What's your take on them? Yes, you can look at them. Oh man, well, I just read, as a pro, an amazing book.

I'm halfway through, yeah. Which I love, the state of affairs. I'm kind of fascinating. Yeah. I feel like it's part of the human condition. I do believe that when you're in a marriage, I think that there's a struggle between Finding novelty because we're probably human condition and then but also seeking the familiar and how do you malcomate those two desires?

Right exactly. How do you do that? That's like a meeting kept you her book waiting Yeah, a lot about that and then she kind of How do you do that? How do you keep it? Yeah, interesting. That's a will you have to get to a conversation Okay, I'm gonna have you, you're gonna answer some questions with me. My last answer. I would love that. And I've got some questions for you that I ask every guest.

So don't know. Quick questions. Okay, what is your biggest turn on? Oh my gosh, I'm dating the sky and I always kinda tell them, like why I always believe that tour play is for play. Right, do something, I'm doing this for you. Just do something.

Right, get it. If you see that I have no gas in my tank, get it built. Exactly. I like it. Biggest turn off. Oh, man. I'm so tough, though, in this area. I don't like kneading this. And, you know, it's funny.

I just think that for me, it's not, and he gets upset because he's like, well, I'm just showing my vulnerability. No, aren't I supposed to do that? Some modern man under the, right? I'm like, no, you're not really. You're not supposed to be vulnerable. Now with me, everyone else is vulnerable. Everyone else is vulnerable, not with me.

So I also think a turn off for me, and it can be with any man, is about if they drink too much. Yeah, I agree, not attractive. No. Sexiest part of your partner's body is biceps. And what's the one thing you wish you could tell your current partner or all future partners about your body's needs? My body's needs? Oh, he meets all those needs.

He has found the spots. He has found the spots. And it's because I'm at an age where I am so unantivated. Right. You're like, whatever. I'll do it. It doesn't matter. How does the U different now sexually than it did 20 years ago? Because there are a lot of people out there. Because I keep... I keep being... Because I'm... I'm almost 48, I'm thinking... When I'm 68, maybe I'll have a great sex. I don't know, but I know... Then I might as well just get it all in now.

What am I going to wait for some special light to do this thing? Wait, come on! Let's just do it. Exactly. I like it. And it's his biggest turn on. Exactly. That you...

Yes. No, what you want, You're asking for it. You're taking control. Because there's a lot of responsibility for guys. Totally. That's a big charge of the whole thing. Understand everyone's body. Everyone's different.

Exactly. Okay. Okay. So Sarah Broca, this was amazing. Thank you for this. I'm going to have you stay on answer questions. Okay. I'm going to find Sarah.

This will all be on our show notes. But it's at Sarah Broca, SARAH, BKAW on Twitter and that's at Sarah Alled Broca, and you will be on Facebook, Instagram and your website is SarahBroca.com, and this will also all be on Instagram, Sarah Alled Broca. Perfect. Got a finder, got a finder, check out our podcast, shared secrets. Okay, I'm going to take a quick break, give a shout out to our sponsors, thank you everyone for supporting them, and we'll we right back answering your emails.

We're on to emails. I'm Sarah, Sarah Brokall. Thank you for staying here with me. We're going to help the people. I love hearing from all of you. Thank you for all your amazing emails and messages. You can easily ask a question. Text Ask Emily one wordWord-279-7979, and you can easily ask

a question that way or submit a question from the Sex with Emily website via the Ask Emily tab. And as always, include information that helps me help you, your gender, your age, how you listen, and where you live, and all that good stuff. This is from Rachel. She's 30 from Oakland, California. Hi Emily, I've been in therapy for over a year. I'm working on not driving my worth from sex as I did in previous relationships and in unhealthy ways. I've been with my

current partner for 1 and F years, and within the first few months we realized we had mismatched libidos. I wanted sex a few times a day, and for him it was more like twice a month. After a few tantrums and emotional reactions to his rejection, my therapist suggested taking the pressure off of him. I've tried to do that, but now when we engage in sexual activity, he starts by giving me some foreplay and then wants me to go down on him. I'm fine with doing that, however, he always ends up orgasming way before I do and there's no penetration. When he's done, I'm not ready for our interaction to be over. I feel like I don't know how to communicate this with outing pushy or putting more pressure on him

We're starting to talk about moving forward in our relationship marriage and kids and stuff like that and I just don't know if this sex life is right for me Um, and if I can live with this for the rest of my life. Can you share what you would do in the situation? Um, thanks Rachel. So yeah Rachel um, I feel like it's common and couples to have mismatch libido Yeah, and to not have you you know, to have challenges sexually. You've been together year and a half and my first thing, I'd love to hear what you think. I think a lot of times we think that we've communicated something to our partner

and we actually have, like you maybe once we said, you know, four play would be better or what are we gonna do about this mismatch thing and let's try and then they think that's the conversation. But when we're trying to really get through to our partner about something like sex, whether it's shame and trauma or whatever it is, years of built up, stuff, it's really hard to get through and make a change.

So what would you tell Rachel here? Well, the thing that I think is also, are they really content in every other area in the relationship? Right, is everything else? Is everything else fine? Is sex really the only issue that they're contending with? And also, is she really having a conversation with them?

As you pointed, like, she may feel like she's communicating with him. But once again, I think what happens a lot is that men get flooded. And then they kind of stonewall. Yeah. And then he probably feels like, well, I'm not making her happy.

So why would I even want to go there? Exactly. Right. And so probably what she does in response is that she probably feels like he's ignoring her abandoning her. She feels rejected. She feels rejected.

And so she'll wait, but she'll keep score. And then she kitchens things it. And then she waits until one night where she really is frisky and ranting, wants to do something, and he just kind of turns away, and then she loses it. So there's probably a pattern there, this kind of thing there in the beginning. And so what would you tell couples about the sex talk? I mean, I've talked about this a lot, but I'd love to hear. I would say you sandwich it.

You sandwich it with positive. Yeah, couple with sandwich. Right, exactly say you sandwich it. You sandwich it with positive. Yeah, compliment sandwich. Right, exactly. I love that. You sandwich it. You just say, this is what I, why I desire to be with you. This is how you make me feel and you make, and I just, I just want to get more of that. And then the middle part, which is that it's not a criticism.

It's more of a complaint, a concern where you can just say, but I also feel when I am with you that I am Asking more for me than you're willing to give and that just makes me feel crappy Right, and then with the positive again Which is like once again would love to have this conversation with you when you're ready to have this conversation And I really care about you and our relationship and our sex life and I think it's inching That's yeah exactly and I think you might have to have it a few times. And then he might have to go away and think about it. But the interesting part about this too,

is that your first thing was, is everything else so great? And what I'm hearing is Rachel's a woman who's, you know, she's doing her work, she's been in therapy for a year and a half, and you're, to wear work on herself, and I wonder if he's doing the work. Because that can be really hard to be with someone who hasn't done the work.

And that's been kind of my challenge with men. One of them is that I've always said one of them. Is that a really important guy who's done work? I mean, I've been working on myself forever, right? But it's not that they don't want to. Where do they begin? Where do they begin? Go to therapy.

But find out what therapy is. But if it's the therapist, that word therapy also scares a lot of men. It's a threat. So what do we call it now? What can we call it? Like go to the, they need to reframe it for men. A specialist. A specialist. Or even an analyst sounds better, like you're telling me.

No, because an analyst is like going down the rabbit hole. No, when it sounds bit less threatening, it sounds like a business like. If it's a business like you go to the analyst, you go to the specialist in this specific area, so they feel like they're actually, it's like going to a personal trainer who specializes in whatever it's like. You're going to a specialist who's going to focus on communicating with the girl who you feel is also not communicating.

Right. Exactly. My brain just exploded first. I can say I have a question for you about therapy and about what we're talking about men and women in therapy or any couples in therapy. On the show a lot. I'm always saying, well, it sounds like, you need therapy or therapy would be great. And we know that in a lot of relationships, there might be one person who wants it, the other one doesn't. Man or a woman, same sex couples.

I feel like there's always one person who wants it. And there's always one person who's so reluctant and they come and they're like, I'm not that identified patient. So why am I here? I'm doing a favor. Right, exactly. So that's one thing getting them over the hurdle.

And I just feel like, so what I always say is it's the most useful thing that you could do in your relationship because so many times couples get into this battle, you can't have the same argument. Which could look at issues. That's what happens. It's the same thing. It's the same issues that keep coming up. I feel like every couple would benefit from therapy.

And I mean, I mean, like, you could be together even like six months, but you're trying to work something out. Six years, maintenance, if things are really good, it's good to go back. Do you agree with that? Or do you think there's some couples that actually they're fine, they don't need therapy? But if they're talking about a conflict?

I don't know. Yeah, I just feel like, don't you, or do you, you could just agree with me that couples need therapy? Like, how is it going to hurt them? Well, it's not going to. I don't think therapy is ever going to hurt them. Unless you find a therapist who just wants to pathologize your gridlock issues.

Like what I say, especially to couples who've just had kids come in, I'm like, you should go to therapy. Because what happens a lot of the times is that you are not only exhausted of having a new being in your life, but a lot of times that energy that you put on on your partner is now being redirected to someone else. So a partner will feel rejected.

This is going to happen when you have a child. Yes. Well, there will be new struggles. Your relationship is not the same. That's, I absolutely agree. Because we hear the same, you probably hear from couples all the time. These same challenges around having a kid. I love it.

That's true. Go to therapy. Okay, let's go back to Rachel and her for a minute. I think I'm Rachel from Oakville. I think we gave her some good things to think about here. Are you guys well matched in other areas and how to talk to them about it? So let's move to another email. This is Eric 48 from Michigan. Hey Emily, as a male survivor of sexual harassment, I was wondering if you could offer any advice

on overcoming the trauma and how do I re-engage in the dating scene? Thanks. And he doesn't give any information on the trauma. I know you're a trauma specialist. It's one of your specialties. So what would you say to this sexual trauma? Sexual harassment? He's an absurd sexual harassment.

It's still trauma. Right. And that's it. It's a big T for trauma. So my suggestion is Eric, go to a go online and look at it. I don't know if you'll have it in Michigan. I know that they have in certain states. The trauma resiliency model. Trauma resiliency model. It's a type of model

that a number therapists are learning how to use with patients who've gone through a lot of trauma. And they're actually using it with a lot of wounded warriors are coming in who are not benefiting from talk therapy nor any medication. But this type of... Why isn't it exactly? It is... So like EMDR? It's similar to EMDR, but it's really about having the patient, if I'm the therapist, you're the patient, I'm gonna have you first bring up a resource

that brings a sense of calm or if it's not a calm something that's neutral and it can be one of your senses that it's affected by that resource. So you can say, my visual resource is looking at the ocean. Then I'll get you into that mode. And then I would say, what do you notice? You say, I just know it's calm.

And then I would have you not narrate it to me. It just say it feels blue, it feels warm, it feels whatever it is. Then I will say, let's go to the activating event. So the trauma, the trauma. Then if I'm noticing, and then I would ask what do you know, she's like, I feel like my neck is kind of closing up, or my stomach is really hurting. We go back to the resource.

So what you're doing is you're teaching your body how to handle that trauma without going into the fight, flight, flea mode. Right, that's great work. That's fascinating. Okay, we've got one more. Kia, she's 29 from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Emilya mode. Right, that's great work. That's fascinating. Okay, we've got one more. Kia, she's 29 from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Emily, back in August,

I confessed to cheating on my wife. We were together for four years before mirroring, lesbian couple. Ever since I came clean, which only happened one time in Nevergan, I feel like she's been punishing me. I would never have cheated if I was getting what I needed sexually.

Additionally, my wife is body image issues, when I tell her she's beautiful and I truly love her, she thinks I'm just saying those things because that's what you do when you're married. Now that I've been up front with my cheating incident, she wants me to jump through every who's possible to prove with this relationship is what I want. I'm very upfront that I cheated because I was lowly and insecure and I know there's no excuse. Do I spend my entire life trying to prove my love, repent my mistake, and convince my wife this is where I want to be if she's not willing to meet me halfway, I feel stuck and I'd love some advice. She goes to therapy. She can't do this on her own. She can't, she can't

try to because her wife is punishing her because she's still traumatized by the betrayal, right? And so they, but they also need the vocabulary to go together, though, right? They need to go together. There's a couple, right? So if she's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, she's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Okay, so if they can't find a decent family couples clinic there, they may have to expend the energy to go to New York City, go to the Accommod Institute, which is a family's couple. Sweet study.

Yes, clinic. They can also reach out to Esther Paral, who I know is willing to take on clients. She's really taking on clients, so that's great. I think, and I hear this a lot of people with cheating, they feel like, I told her everything, you know, I told my partner, why aren't we over? Can't we move on?

But the person who's cheating, though, is trying to get rid of the guilt. Right. And so they're like, but there is a certain process you've got to hear. You do? Now you're going to keep talking about it. It's not going to go away just because of time. There's certain things you got to go through. Yes. You deal with that.

Yes. There's stuff. There's stuff. There's stuff. I got it. It's a therapy. It's important. Sarah, thank you so much. Sarah broke off for being on the show.

I love you. This is so much fun. We could do this for hours. You can. We will. We're going to continue this. We could do this for hours. We'll continue this. We're going to continue this. And get your podcast shared secrets.

And everything else at serabroca.com. And thank you, everyone, for listening to the show. Thank you to my amazing, wonderful team. I love you all. Thank you to Ken, Jamie, our volunteers, Shannon and Jenny, producer, Lark, and Michael. And thanks, everyone, for listening. Was it good for you? Email me. Feedback at sexwithmlay.com.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪