Sex With Emily - Take Your Sex Life from Stale to Sexy, Part 2

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

When it comes to sex in longterm relationships, why do they start hot, then go lukewarm? Why does our eroticism go dormant, once the newness of a relationship wears off? And what are some specific strategies for bringing back the heat we desperately long for? It’s part 2 in our Best Of special on taking your sex life from stale to sexy, and I can’t wait to let you listen in on my conversations with John Wineland and Esther Perel, and a bit of wisdom from Tom Bilyeu.John is a relationship coach specializing in polarity and embodiment, and for this show, I’ve selected his most potent advice on hot sex. According to John, getting in touch with our masculine and feminine energies – regardless of gender – has the power to transform the way we show up in bed. Next, I talk to Esther Perel, well recognized couples therapist, author and fellow podcaster, who explains how a couple’s sex life loses its passion. Our partners become reliable and safe, which is great for a relationship, but according to Esther…not always great for sex. So how do we revive the mystery, the risk, and a sense of adventure with our partners? Listen for the sensual techniques she uses to help couples get back in touch with their hungry side. Finally, Impact Theory’s Tom Bilyeu dishes on desire – and why attraction for other people is not death for a relationship. Show Notes:John Wineland | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YoutubeEsther Perel | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YoutubeTom Bilyeu | Website | Instagram | Twitter | Youtube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I want to know that I can take you someplace that you can't take yourself, sexually especially. A roadicism is about imagination, not about the 20 positions that you can come up prior. If you want to be a good partner, then you want to make that person feel better about themselves when they're around you, then when they're not. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. When it comes to sex and long-term relationships, why do they always start out hot and then

go lukewarm? Why does our eroticism go dormant once the newness of a relationship wears off? And what are some specific strategies for bringing back the heat we desperately long for? Well, it's part two in our best of special if you haven't heard part one yet, pause this episode and come back after. I'm taking your sex life from stale to sexy and I can't wait to let you listen in on my conversations with John Wylin and Esther Peral and a bit of wisdom from Tom Billio. John is a relationship coach, specializing in polarity and embodiment,

and for this show, I've selected his most potent advice on hot sex. According to John, getting in touch with our masculine and feminine energies, regardless of gender, has the power to transform the way we show up in bed. Next I talk to Esther Paral, well-recognized couples therapist, author and fellow-podcaster, who explains how a couple's sex life loses its passion. Our partners become reliable and safe, which is great for a relationship, but according to Esther, not always great for sex. So how do we arrive the mystery, the risk, and a sense of adventure with our partners? Listen for the sensual techniques she uses to help couples get back in touch with their hungry side. Finally, impact theories, Tom Billio, dishes on desire, and why attraction for other people is not

death for a relationship. All right, intentions with Emily for each episode, join me in setting an intention. I do it. I encourage you to do the same. Well, my intention is to give you new ideas to help solve an age-old problem, keeping your sex life hot. Please rate, move you, sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. I've got tons of great articles up at sexwithemlee.com and also check out my YouTube channel for more sex tips and advice. If you want to ask me a question, just call my hotline 559 Talk Sex or 559 825 5739.

Leave me your questions or message me, sexwithemily.com slash ask Emily. Alright everyone, enjoy this episode. this topic is probably the one I get asked most often because most long term couples are desperate to return to the passionate sex they had at the beginning. Or they hopefully had at the beginning. You're going to get some truly valuable insights from John, Tom, and Esther. But here are three of my top tips to revive a still sex life. First, get to know and understand polarity.

You'll hear a lot about that in this episode. But basically what I'm talking about is masculine and feminine energies. We all have them inside of us. We do. We use them throughout the day. We're always switching back and energy. We all have them inside of us. We do. We use them throughout the day. We're always switching back and forth. But think about it. Which type speaks to you and which type do you crave receiving? Second, prioritize novelty. Like, how are you bringing novelty and adventure back into your relationship? It doesn't have to be sexual. I'm not saying you've just swim for the raptors. It could be traveling to a new location, trying a new activity together or going on a gorgeous hike. Couples who are constantly trying new things together tend to keep the connection

and the intimacy going strong. Finally, get curious about your partner's desire and use that desire to create an erotic atmosphere. So pay attention. Have conversations with your partner about desire, about turn-ons. Remember, recap the conversation. Create a Google Doc for all I care. Just find a way to become an expert not only in what your desire is, also your partners. Alright, on to the show. I want to start with John Wyland, who explains what polarity is and why it makes for such satisfying sexual encounters. So we all have a masculine and a feminine, right? We all have these are universal energies, like Yin and Yang, North Pole, South Pole,

consciousness and energy. I mean, the world is filled there's two specific laws around intimacy. The first is that we're all the same. We're all human. I have fear. You have fear. I have a soul. You have a soul if you believe in that, right?

I want love. You want love. The first step in getting intimacy is to see that in each other. I'm goodness. you're goodness, and kind of give each other, start from that place, if we're the same. And that's great, but there's not a lot of fucking that. You know what I mean?

And so, fucking me, not a lot of hotness. Not a lot of hotness, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's the first step is really finding sameness, like in recognizing each other's humanity. There's also the laws of polarity, which the universe has, too. Magnetism is a perfect law of polarity.

And what we realized is that along with sameness, there needs to be difference. And this is not gender. The problem is a lot of people can flake this with gender. That's why you just explain it. No, I'm not like that. I'm like, we all have those energies in us. We all have them. And for there to be the deepest kind of sexual intimacy, we need both the sameness recognized and we need the differences recognized. And one way to work with this, I mean, my teacher, David Dana, talked about this a lot. He's

written a lot of books on this so you can definitely check out his books, listeners if you want to get into this. Yeah, D-I-D-A-F-F-Animate. It's work. And he outlined that for there to be the deepest connection and the hottest sexual polarity, meaning charge, that one person had to animate their masculine and relax their feminine and one person had to animate their feminine and relax their masculine. And when you have that, coupled with the, you know, we're one, basically, I'm human, you're human, you get really deep connected sex, right? And so, the masculine and the feminine, really you're speaking to universal energies that

we all have. Now, the rub here is that still, for most people, especially over 30, most men identify with their masculine. Right. Not all. Not all. We're talking about in the bedroom, specifically when it comes to inter-related relationships. Yeah, that's the first place. But, you know, and we'll get into a little of the distinctions between the two. And then most women identify with their feminine, even though they might have, you know, mad masculine capacity in the workplace, in the courtroom, in the, you know, wherever they are, whatever they're doing.

But at their heart, they would prefer to be ravished and taken somewhere deep, cherished, ravished, taken someplace deeply by somebody that they trust, right? That's how you know you have a feminine sexual essence. If you prefer to be the ravisher, right, and to be washed with the energy, right, with you just really wanting energy. So you want to, you, if you want to be surrendered to sexually, which most masculine. I have explained that to, and again, I want to just say one thing too that, let's explain that this be gay relationship, same sex couple, the same thing. Absolutely. There's, to make sex hot, there's a masculine and feminine energy. So I just want to put that out there.

That's how it plays. It doesn't matter the gender orientation, the sexual orientation. Someone's finding. So let's talk surrender. Right. So you want to be trusted fully. I want to know that I can take you someplace that you can't take yourself sexually, especially. There's a place in your heart, there's a place in your body that you can do all kinds

of things on your own, but there's certain things that you can't do by yourself. And for you to surrender your capable leadership, which you're probably pretty good at, and trust me, and literally give me your body, your heart, the deepest part of both, that would be a surrender, like a full body, the way it occurs to the masculine partners, like take me, like take me on your, like, kind of like a sexual helplessness. And the masculine craves that deeply

to be trusted so much that you'll give me everything. Okay, so here's my question. I guess because I'm a woman, I understand this more, I intuitively understand that experience. I hear from women all the time, so here's my question. I guess because I'm a woman, I understand this more, I intuitively understand that experience. I hear for women all the time that's what they desire, but for men, they don't use those words, and I'm like, I just want her to, they might say, why won't she do anal?

But they're not saying to me like, but that's a question of surrender. Right, it is. That's a surrender, I mean, that illustrates, anal illustrates exactly that. It's like a taboo, give me your anal. Well, for you to surrender that kind of, that part of your body to me and do it open heartedly and with complete desire, that is a surrender.

That's true. That is a big assignment. That is why men love it. Right. I mean, you know, it feels good. It doesn't necessarily feel better than, you know, than regular sex. But it means something and the sexual. It means something.

It means your surrendering and trusting me. Right. It is trust. It is trust and yeah. Trust and surrender. Absolutely. Because let me give you another example. Because I hear from Joseph's many women who are saying my partner or saying this about their

male partner is he doesn't want sex as much. He doesn't initiate. Sometimes I think he doesn't even like it. He did it at the beginning. I tell him what I want. He doesn't listen. So what about that masculine energy not connecting? Because that's a really common. Yeah. So what's that guy I'll trip that on? Well, you know, there's a couple different ways to go about this. So first of all, men are let the masculine,

the masculine. Sometimes I'll say men because most men are masculine essences, but that's not always true. The masculine prefers peace, nothingness, numbness, emptiness, less. Even the masculine and you, right? And masculine a lot of women these days, you know, a lot of women meditate, they actually love that part. And the masculine and all of us prefers that. Well sex and relationship are a whole lot of something. So we're not necessarily, when I say we, I mean, masculine guys, I consider myself

a masculine essence. We love you. And yet, that's not where we would want to go naturally. Now, in the first year, year and a half, there's hormones, there's dopamine, there's all kinds of drugs that are helping us like continually go there. But once you get into a longer term relationship, that's just kind of natural. The masculine is thinking about purpose, thinking about success, and

think about freedom. Success to the masculine occurs as freedom. When I'll be free when I write my book, I'll be free when I make this much money. I'll be free when I have this kind of sex. I'll be free when I travel the world. I'll be free, right? And so a lot of men are living in that myth that freedom is hitting a goal of some kind. For the feminine, the question is more like, when will there be enough love? There'll be enough love when I find the right guy, or there'll be enough love when we have the right sex, or there'll be enough love when I find the right guy or there be enough love when we have the right sex or there Be enough love when my husband does this

There'll be enough and both of them are myths, right? There's there's never enough freedom There's never enough anything right and there's never enough love right or the flip side There is enough as there is in the moment like in the moment. There's in the moment exactly. That's a great point Yeah, yeah, that's where it's all gonna happen when you get married You've the kids the house the perfect partner. Guess what? But going back to this, I'm going to go back to the second thing, because I liked my example, and you thought it would be about women, women, women, you ravaged now that feels, I still can't, I need the example for the men, and then we're going to move out how that

heightened sex feels when he's feeling the... Surrender, the surrender. Surrender, the surrender. Well, can we use your anal example? Please. Yes, no, I love it. Let's do it. So, let's say I'm with my partner, and really is the perfect example. No, I love it. Let's do it.

So, let's say I'm with my partner and this is on the table, anal is on the table, and it's obviously something that is not easy for every woman to do. There's a certain level of trust inherent in that. And there's obviously pain involved sometimes, right? And so there's a certain level of having to relax her body and surrender into me penetrating her deeply. But probably the deepest place in her body, yeah. And so I'm penetrating the deepest part of her body.

She has to relax her body. She has to sort of open her heart to me. Otherwise, I don't think she would trust me. So there's a whole bunch of things that have to happen that occur to me as absolute surrender of her heart and body. And the other thing that the masculine craves and sex is the energetic range. Yeah, that's it.

We're bringing energy so we can fast. Yeah, we're bringing energy men, bring the presence and the structure and the, yeah. To me and to most guys that I know, like that kind of surrender, another example would be tying you up. And so the more we get into the taboo pieces where I'm tying you to the bed and leaving you there for a couple of hours and saying,

here, you get to eat grapes for two hours and I'll be back. And those kind of sex play, that's why it's such a hot play for people with legitimate masculine and feminine essences. Because the feminine wants to surrender in her heart to some two. Now this gets into the consent piece we were talking about to somebody that she can trust implicitly. Right. And if that trust thing, like I've always said here, and they give people, women feel safer, women are more likely to enjoy sex, report having satisfying sex, and war orgasms when there was someone they can trust. And trust goes so much deeper than just like, I know who he is, I know where he lives,

and I feel like he's not going to hurt me. I googled him. It's Facebook, we're talking about this deeper level trust. Okay, can we bring that deeper level trust back to anal sex? Okay, let's just... Okay, so if we're together, we're in a sexual moment, right? And you can't feel me feeling your heart. Like I'm not looking into your eyes.

I'm not breathing with you. I'm moving very fast or I'm disconnected, right? I'm not in my body or I'm just kind of rushing. Your heart won't, you won't feel me feeling you. And you won't be able to trust me with anal sex. So the level of, that's a perfect example for the mask. And like, if you want to go there, man, if it's something you want to go to,

you, this is one of those things where there's, there's a lot of trust that has to be worked up slowly. And, and really she really needs to be felt, especially if you're in that part of her body because it could be dangerous, it could be painful. If your heart disconnected, it's abuse. Exactly. It is abuse. I think that we sense that sometimes when we're like he's disconnected or he doesn't get

it's because it's what we're talking about. And also you guys have sex, anal sex can be painful but we talk a lot about how to do it so when you're breathing and if it is is painful, you guys, you're not breathing using enough lube and slowing down. So much about great sex is slowing down. Now let's hear from John on the three ways we can have sex and the art of asking for what you want. There's three ways that we can have sex, right? We can have sex physically, meaning, you know, bodies two bodies together, right? Focusing on the outside of your body. You know, there's the clitoris and there's the breast

and there's, you know, I have a penis and there's that whole thing, right? And that's where most of us live, right? In the physical realm. There's also emotional sex. Like you could feel me feeling your heart. We talked about penetration, right? So I could, you know, penetrate you emotionally,

like feel what you're feeling really deeply and all the way up and down your body, if I practice. So I could penetrate you emotionally, like feel what you're feeling really deeply and all the way up and down your body if I practice. And then the third part of sex is this energetic piece where we're talking, where one of us is in our feminine and one of us is in our masculine. And we're having sex from that energetic place, right? So it feels literally like the whole body is being, you know, you're inviting me with your whole body and I'm penetrating you with my whole body or it's energetic. So most of us live in that

first realm and so this embodiment piece is essential to get into those higher realms. Like, and then the third realm, that's where we're talking about, you know, hour long sex, multiple orgasms, weeping, cervical orgasms, you know, withholding ejaculations, spiritual sex. Like, you know, when we say it was a spiritual experience, that's what we're talking about. And I think that's what, yeah, that's what a lot of people, I think, when they want more connection, but that's another layer, but I think people would be like, I want that. Yeah, absolutely. The fact is, I want that. Yeah, because the fact doesn't want that. I want my sex to inspire me and make me feel

divine and fill me with love and make me happy to be alive. So embodiment is the practice of moving from living in our heads, which most of us do. We're thinking, thinking, thinking. We've got our iPhones out. We're literally living energetically in our heads and moving us down energetically through breath and just breath and awareness if you breathe into your belly and you place all your awareness into your you know into the lower part of your body you're actually gonna be felt in the lower part of your body right so the practice of literally becoming more aware of our bodies and using breath to be in our bodies. And then the other piece of embodiment is taking something

that is a theory like, let's call it seduction. So it takes seduction, most women would love to know how to seduce a man more. So this is a ethereal concept, but you could actually make that real through your body so that not only you felt like so confident and in touch with the seductress in you, but I would feel it. So it's almost like your body becomes a transmitter for this ethereal concept, or we could take fierce love, right? And I could get so present and so filled with this thing that you would feel fierce love coming from me. Even if I just like came in the dorm and was on my phone like doing a snap or something.

Now it might take longer than 30 seconds for you to feel it, but if I stayed there and I just kept looking at you, like I fucking love you, you're so beautiful, like and I just was giving you that energy through my body. You'd have no choice. I really, I really forget to say that. You'd have no choice, yeah, eventually. I'm not gonna send that shit.

Right, no. Unless you were really mad at me about something, you hadn't worked out, but that's a whole different now. Right, okay. Is it the kind of thing, if you're going, yeah, I want that or maybe they don't want that. They're like, I'm just happy I found the clitoris last week. Which is awesome guys.

We're not saying this is like the only way to have sex. I feel like when I first started learning years ago, people think of tantra, breathing together and delayed ejaculation, all that, but we're not even labeling it that it's more like we would both have to, when we see each other connect before we actually had penetrative sex, we would breathe together and we would, right?

Or does it now, is it just like, with your, you just flipped on for you, when you're with someone, or is it more like you still have to have that intention together and meet would, right? Or did it now? Is it just like with your, you just flipped on for you when you're with someone or is it more like you still have to have that intention together and meet at that place? Yeah, well, men are more like blow torches and women are more like crockpots in this realm, right? So, so yeah, it takes some, of course, it takes time. In fact, I say women shouldn't even have sex unless they're feeling like the man that they're with fully, like eye contact. Does he feel my heart? Is he with me fully with fully, like eye contact,

does he feel my heart, is he with me fully, like hopefully matching breath. So a way to start having energetic sex is to start breathing with somebody, slow it down. Yeah. I guess what I've experienced and think a lot of people is that it's just this, all those layers from childhood, from life, like people that don't touch, for example,

like you were like, I don't want to be touched that long, or it makes me uncomfortable. I mean, I like what you're saying, invited out, but it's not everyone's receptive. If you buy this concept that you're going to evoke from him, a deeper version of him, by revealing more of what's true. Like, so, for example, let's say you're with a guy and he's not feeling you, but you're

making out, but you're just like this guy's not feeling me. And I always encourage women to stop and go, would you like to know what I would need to trust you more? Right. Okay. Would you like to know, I mean, and rather than abandon themselves and have sex when they don't feel fully connected. Which so many women, I mean, and rather than abandon themselves and have sex when they don't feel fully connected. Which so many women, I think they do that.

And men, but I think I hear this woman all the time that they're like, I just kept going because it's already started and I didn't want to stop it and feel rejected. But how great to be that if you're, if you are embodied and you are that self-aware, because you should never continue with anything. There's no contract. You don't have to be there. But to be able to have that self-awareness and stop it and say, you know what I would really need?

I mean, then what would I say? Any man with his salt is going to be, yeah, unless he's just so triggered by a powerful woman or anything like that. So you might say, you know, like I would need you to look into my eyes. Right. I would need you to kiss me slower.

Right. Or I would need to feel you like look into my eyes. That's right. I would need you to kiss me slower. Right. I would need to feel you like really feeling my body. Or I would need you to. I mean, in most women don't even know they can ask this shit. Right, it's so good. Yeah. Yeah. It will evoke the part of him because men want to make you happy.

They do. They do. They really do. And we want to make men happy, but we just don't know how. Yeah, but feel the difference between I would need you to feel my body versus like slow down, or like moving his hand someplace, which is what, you know, which is, it one occurs to the masculine as a heartfelt request. The other occurs as kind of a, I don't want to even use this term, but it does occur to

men like this, like a castration. Right. Like, I don't trust you to fuck me well. So I'm going to tell you how to fuck me. Right, exactly. And most guys would not be with a woman like that. But I would want to be invited, would want to be, I mean, she can ask anything she needs to ask about. Right.

But there's that art to do. There is an art, and that's what you teach this work, which I think is fascinating. What if I could give them something at communication piece, because it's your thing, communication is lubrication, right? So what I would need to trust you more, right? I mean, who's gonna argue with that? I know, I love it.

It's so easy. It does ease an asshole and find somebody else. Let's take a short break and we come back. As Sarah Paralle talks to me about the crisis of desire and how we can turn ourselves on. Welcome back. I've pulled the highlights from my conversation with as Sarah Peral and wanting what we already have and how pleasure is directly linked to self-worth. For most of history, sexuality in long-term relationships, which was primarily marriage, was for procreation so that you could have age children for which you probably needed to have more

because a few were not going to survive. And sex was primarily a woman's marital duty. So you did it because you had to, and you had a motivation to, which was to procreate. We went from the procreative model to the recreative model. We went from duty to desire. We went from sexuality to be an economic asset, because children were economic assets, to sexuality being for pleasure and for connection. We take it for granted, but it is a massive transformation.

And then come the 60s, and we have a number of mini-revolutions, but and we have a number of many revolutions, but primarily we have the democratization of contraception, which means that there is a generation that for the first time has premarital sex, has the permission to do what they want, has contraception in their hand, has a sexuality that has been redefined under a completely new organizing principle, and they don't feel like it, at home, and they don't know why. Can we want what we already have? Is the fundamental question of desire? What is the difference between love and desire? How do they relate? But also how do they conflict? Why is it that the forbidden is so erotic?

Why does parents who deliver such a fatal erotic blow? What is at stake when the very thing that people rely on is the very thing that becomes most fragile, because we don't think of desire as something that needs to be cultivated, sustained, actively nourished. We think that because in the beginning, for some of us, anyway, it's there, it's just going to remain there forever. And the forever keeps on getting longer. Exactly. That's the crisis of desire.

We had to get married. We became, you know, property of the man, and then we thought, well, we get to pick a partner and should we base on this love and sex and connection. Well, it's like, what we're talking about is the honeymoon phase, right? That everyone goes through at the beginning of a relationship. No, not everyone, actually. As many people that start to look warm and become hot later, that is also a myth that everybody starts with a tremendous amount of erotic enthusiasm for their partner. Some do, but many don't, but we don't say it

out loud because the myth says that there should be a honeymoon phase. Okay, well, so those people like in a range of marriages or they're just making their own arrangements in their head and they think, well, I'm not attracted to this person, but they're going to be a great provider. So that's not important to me right now to have that kind of desire. That, or I feel deeply emotionally connected to you, you feel safe to me. You will be good to me. You will not hurt me.

You will care for me. And, you know, and the fact that I am not as drawn to you physically or feel compatible with you physically is secondary at this moment my erotic needs and my emotional needs are not aligned and i am letting my emotional needs be the decisive factor. It's fine. But is it fine? So how important is sex in a long time relationship? It may be very important for us, that's very same person, but maybe the emotional needs superseded. And you have to know that, you have to understand that. You know, that same person who made that choice

may have been fine for 10, 15 years sometimes, and then that other dormant part of them, resurfaces, you know, with evangensions and says, and what about me? But that doesn't mean that there wasn't wrong to choice that was made at first. There was a choice that was made for different reasons. And those things, we have the idea that sexual needs and emotional needs are one and the same. And they always go neatly aligned together.

And that is not necessarily the case. There are people with whom we can have wonderful sexual encounters with whom we would never want to live a life. And there are people with whom we want to live a whole life but we have to mourn a kind of erotic flatness that for some of us is a real dear loss. So how do we reckon? I mean, I know that a lot of your work is getting couples to reconcile

this and to understand how the importance of sex, how they can either get it back, you know, we had it at the beginning. That's what I hear a lot, at least they had, even if they had it for a week. Even the video that they're 20 years, that first week was amazing and they all want to go back. Now, I say, you're never going to go back, but what do we do? It can we experience desire and deep love at the same time. Yes, yes, of course, some of us really do.

The way I organized it in my head was actually based on the workers who have Stephen Mitchell and others. It was not, I wasn't just my original thinking, that we all have two fundamental sets of human needs. And we need security and we need safety and stability and predictability. We also need adventure and novelty and risk and mystery and sometimes danger. The degree to which these two organizing needs, existential needs in our life, living side of us will tell you the answer to how important it is sex.

When you say how important it is sex in a long term relationship, my first answer to you is for whom? Tell me the story of that person and who that person is and I'll have a better sense of how to answer that, rather than some flat general, generalizable number. And each of us struggles these two fundamental needs, and they change in the course of our

life. So some of us will find that the place where we love is also the place where desire feels very free. The safety I feel with you is what unleashes my erotic self. I ask this exercise a lot, where I ask people to separate the page into. When I think about sex, I think of. When I think about love, I think of. When I think about love, I think of. When I am wanted, I feel. When I want, when I desire, I feel. And when I think about desire between you and me.

And then on the other side, when I think about love, when I am loved, when I love, and when I think about the love between you and me. And then you look at the connections. For some people these two seamlessly flow together and one flows from the other. And for other people, they are rather separately and disconnected. When I love, I feel deeply responsible. When I desire, I want to be free of all responsibility. When, you know, when I, it's that dance that every person has to explore for themselves. Then, how do you bring them together? You tell people, it's not the desire just for doing sex. Desire and the erotic, you know, I think that that's what frees people up is. When I say, we're not talking about sex.

You can have sex three times a week and feel absolutely nothing. I am not there to help you do it, but I will explore with you, where do you go in sex? What does sex mean for you? What parts of you get expressed in sex? What is it a vocabulary for for you? When I go into that frame, it becomes a different conversation. Women have done sex for centuries and felt nothing. So, trees and felt nothing. So desire is not the desire to do it. Here's a question for desire. I turn myself off when or by. It's very different than you turn me off when and what turns me off is. So I turn myself off, say, people, I shut down my desire, right? I suppress, I go numb. When I feel self-critical, when I feel, not in touch with my body, when I am low, some of my body,

when I don't take time to care for myself, when I haven't been in nature or listen to music or done something that is aesthetically pleasing, when I feel undeserving of pleasure, when I worry about money, when you and I fight the whole day. Okay, I turn myself on. I awaken myself.

I ignite myself, which isn't you turn me on when and what turns me on is. People will say, I turn myself on when I take care of myself, when I pamper myself, when I dance in the rain, when I meet with friends, when I dance in the rain, when I meet with friends, when I go to the club, 90% of what they're talking about is not about sex. I turn myself on when I feel alive. I turn myself on when I feel worthy of being desired, when I feel desirable. I turn myself on when I like who I am when I'm with you. And that notion that desire is the one aspect of sex that you can't force. You can force people to have sex, you can't force them to want it. But in order to want it, it needs to be worth wanting.

Now let's talk about desire for you. First of all, he'll say, you turn me off and you turn me on, but you're empowering people to say, no, I, it's a decision. It's a joy. Like, when am I the most turned on? When am I the most turned off? And I bet it's really easy for a lot of people to answer what turns them off, then actually what turns them on.

And then that gets into, because you work a lot on eroticism and sexuality as well. I think they're different, you know, eroticism and feeling desire and feeling like understanding, you know, you always talk about erotic intelligence, right? It's like a place, you say sex isn't something we do, it's a place we go. I'm interested in the erotic dimension of sex, the poetics, the meaning of it, not what you do. You, the same gesture in sex can be ultimately pleasurable and soothing and fun and it can

be utterly, you know, cringing. It's the same gesture. It's not this gesture versus that. It's the context where you're at with yourself and with the other that will determine if this becomes a source of connection or a source of hurt. That's the important thing to understand with sex. So what I'm dealing with is the energy. I distinguish it, the curiosity, the way people stay interested, the pay people stay motivated,

the way people use their imagination. What do you think it's like at 5 at 70? You know, you're not going to see the same thing that you see at 25, but you may be so much more confident that it actually gets better. Sex gets better with age. It gets better when people are more confident and more self-accepting. Yes. You know, doesn't have to do with the size of their pants. So to talk about the rotissism was a way to liberate the conversation from all the misguided and miscommunicated myths that surround the conversation about sex. I said, okay, eroticism is about imagination, not about the 20 positions that you can come

up with. Right. Whatever. So, when you have couples, for example, do this like what turns me off, what turns me on. It's that's the way of them getting into their own, like understanding about it off, what turns me on. That's the way of them getting into their own, like understanding about it, that maybe the same sex that could feel good once they realize it. Oh, I'm turning myself off. But once I'm turned on, I'm open for

whatever, if I'm really in that space, but it takes work, it's that aroused. And if you're not turned on, and I'm talking just a rousell, I'm talking available open willing. If you're not willing, your partner can do all the things that you typically like. There's going to be nobody at the reception desk. So it's not what the other person does. The other person can follow your, you know, prescriptions. But if you're not into it that day, that moment, nothing's going to happen. I mean, unless you force yourself, that moment, nothing's going to happen. I mean, unless you force yourself, but it's not going to be willing.

The difference in talking about sex versus eroticism is talking about pleasure versus performance. Say more of that about that, because I'd love to dive into to pleasure. How do we look at pleasure as something that we deserve? Pleasure is not orgasm, first of all. Pleasure is the way you talk to me, the way I look at you, the way your hand hovers around me without even touching me. Pleasure is the attention that you give to me. Pleasure is your willingness to go as slow as I want to go or that pleasure is the way you're gazing at each other. Pleasure is not about outcome. It's really not about how was the sex.

We did it and it worked. And I'm like, this is pragmatism applied to a raticism that doesn't really... It doesn't work. So pleasure is not about getting this thing done. It can happen without any of the trappings of what we consider a sexual act. Pleasure is linked to self-worth because it's about, do I deserve to feel good? And in order to feel deserving of feeling good, of being given to, of being pleasure, of having someone pay attention to me, of feeling safe, of being given to, of being pleasure, of having

someone pay attention to me, of feeling safe that they're not going to hurt me, etc., etc., and vice versa, it demands that I feel lovable and desirable. And so pleasure is directly connected to self-worth. Good sex is directly connected to self-worth. Good sex is directly connected to self-worth. Can I ask for what I want? Can I take the time that I need to take? Can I expect that you would want to do something that maybe is not in your preferences, but you're doing it for me? You know, I love to work with as around sexuality with a vocabulary of key verbs. Like every time you learn a language, you need to learn the key verbs. Sexuality is a language that demands the key verbs.

How do you deal with asking? How comfortable are you to ask? How comfortable are you with the asks of partners, not just the stable partner, any partners? How do you deal with giving? Do you enjoy giving? Do you find giving is just, you know, something you need to get through it's a responsibility, it's a burden. How do you feel about receiving? Do you feel like the

passivity of receiving? Do you only feel that you can receive after you've given, because you've earned it? You know, how do you deal with sharing? How do you deal with refusing? Can you say no? Because if you can't say no, you can't really say yes. What, how is your experience around these verbs when it comes to your sexual encounters? Yes. You learn a lot. How do we retrain the brain to understand

that pleasure is our birthright and not just a reward? Like, I think there's so much about sex and eroticism that we just think we don't deserve it. So the way I work with it is very experientially. And I don't just retrain the brain, I retrain the physical experience, the embodied experience, which then we'll send messages to the brain. So I work a lot with water. What is your preferred temperature of the water?

I want you to send in the shower with the perfect temperature for you. And then I want you to notice, what is the place on your body where you enjoy it the most? Is it the nape of your neck? Is it the back? Is it your head? You know, is it your shoulder? Is it the front? You know, and then I want you to just stay under the shower and for as long as you can notice notice the soothing pleasurable quality of that water and if at some point you begin to think oh I should turn I should move I should wash I should finish see if you can extend it just another 30 seconds you see you can do it

alone you can do it with the partner watching. These are all metaphors, transposed metaphors of experiences around pleasure. Imagine that you're eating and your partner is just watching. And you're pleasing yourself. You find the thing you like the most. It's so I work with food a lot, I work with fruits, I work with water, I work with fabric, with clothes, you know, that you experience on your body. You know, I work with touch. Do you want hovering touch? This is from the work of Jaya. Do you want

no gentle touch? Do you want straight touch or do you want steeple touch? There's a beautiful exercise, another one, that is really the difference between giving touch and taking touch. So the giving touch, I give touch to you. I stroke your hand and I am thinking of you and my mind is completely focused on you. This is a great retrain exercise. And then there is the taking touch, which is now I continue to stroke your hand, but this time I'm focused on me. It's how I enjoy. It's the contact of my hand, and you can see people completely change the way they touch. Now I am using your hand for my pleasure and I am taking touch. And now

I go back to thinking about you and now I am giving touch and to the distinction that the pleasure of giving is a different kind than the pleasure of taking. Yes, I remember I was with a guy and he would touch me. He'd come up and say, like they were saying, you would do this thing. And I was like, that might feel good to you. But what we're saying is like really, sometimes just taking sex off the table and practice one of these touching for my pleasure, touching for your pleasure. Do you want to know a little secret of mine? Can I take your hand and guide it in the way that really unlocks it for me. Can I show you?

And then you literally take the hand and you make, you know, this, this spot and actually if you do it in circles, that's my thing. My thing is circles. You know, other people, it's a straight line, other people, it's a little, you know, stick with line. Remember that one. It's really a key for me. And it's like everybody can share their little sensual secrets like that with a lover where they're

not being critical. They're really saying, here is the way to get to me. We're wrapping up things with Tom Billiou who gets real about his relationship with his wife Lisa Billiou and why desiring other people isn't something we necessarily need to be afraid of and how to age well together. I'm either never getting married or I'm marrying this woman. She is the only woman I've ever said I love you to like it's like a whole thing. So we get together and I'm like, look, I want to be married to you

and that's going to be that. And this is going to take work. And so that was so self-evident to me that like it won't happen by accident neurochemistry changes over time. So I think by then a study had come out that showed that if you take someone who's just in a bump of cocaine and put them in an FMRI machine and take someone who thinks about their newly found lover and you can't tell the difference on a brain scan. It's all dopamine. It's the reward centers. It's craving. It's all dopamine, it's the reward centers,

it's craving, it's like all this crazy shit. And I thought, okay, so I know that ends. Nobody stays there. And if you're the kind of person that just needs that high, that next high, you're just like a drug addict, but sex or love is your drug choice. You get up to the same thing, yeah. So I was like, all right, let us not fall prey to that.

So I have this whole belief that if something is predictable, then you should be able to avoid the negative consequences of it. So it was just so predictable that our relationship would change over time. So we talked a lot about like, how do you grow together? How do you age well together? And so I was like, look, women are prized for their beauty. So let me just tell you right here and now, one day you're going to be ugly.

You're going to be fucking wrinkles and skin and bone. And that is the truth of where you're headed. And I was like, how old were you at this point when you had this conversation? 24? See, that's amazing that you had that of where you're headed. And I was like, how old were you at this point when you had this conversation for? 24? See, that's amazing that you had that. Just for two things, for truth, for people to read.

For people to read. Read, like literally every secret you've ever wanted to know has been written in a book. These days it's in a YouTube video. People just need to drink in the information. So it's all out there. So it just comes under what you know. Oh, young time at 24.

Says you might not, okay. Now, Tom is also stupid at 24. So let's not get too clappy here. Sure, no, I'm okay. I like it. I was full of moronic behavior, but just in this one, I definitely set myself up well. So we communicated a lot and I said,

look, I want you to understand, there's like a very predictable cycle that people go on. Men become successful. And as their partner ages, they become less attractive. And so they end up splitting. The guys become more valuable over time. And based on traditional standards of what people are valued for, men are valued for access to resources, women are valued for beauty.

So I'm like, we are on like opposite paths. I'm going to grow more valuable to the average woman. And you're going to grow less valuable to the average man. So what I need you to understand is I don't prize that. What I prize in you is a shared life. There's no way to do that. It's the only thing that can be, it has to be done in real time.

You can't short circuit that. So I'm telling you right now, not only do I love you, not only am I in fire for you sexually, but and I respect you. But I am committed to you. And so it's that commitment that gives us a bond and that shit is like fireman. That's how a relationship age as well because like you're just you're raw, you're vulnerable, you open yourself up completely and you say even though I understand the neurochemistry, I will always find, have you seen

those the who women find attractive? Age group women find attractive. The age group men find attractive. But yeah, this is so crazy. Yeah, for people that have never seen this before, I want you to understand, women find guys attractive that are within two years of their age, no matter where they're at. Okay, so if they're 40, then they find a guy from like 38 to 42 attractive. So there's like that four year window for a guy. It is always, no matter what age they are, it's always 22. Right.

I was like, that's fucking crazy. Like as a woman, that should be terrifying. So now and now we're all terrified. Thanks for reminding us all. Here is what you have to do. For driving the cars off the road. You need to have a conversation because if you can predict it and discuss it,

then you can avoid the stupidity of it So I just said look I will always find a 22 year old attractive, but I'm gonna share a life with you And so I don't want you to be paranoid that you're going to age now look she's 40 and fucking out of cell But she's gonna be 81 day and barring some like a magical breakthrough. She will be and barring some magical breakthrough, she will be wrinkly as the day is long. So I just, I needed her to know the thing that is intoxicating to me is a shared experience, to share this life for some of us. But that's you're okay. So this is the thing because I would love every single person that's in men going, yes,

it's not about viewed anymore. It's about, because what you're talking about is shared experiences, but also just communication, connection, having a plan at discussing your values, making sure you're sex, treating each other really well, learning how to fight smart, communicate well. So many people are not, well, that's why I will always have a job here. People just don't know, and they're like, oh, well, that 20-year-old looks great because my wife and I have never communicated about these things ever.

And she's, you know, that they just don't even have what you're seeing. So I feel like I would love that to get into the mind of people but they're thinking like, but every woman's attractive. I actually don't even, how could they get just seems impossible to tell people you can't,

you, that you will choose that over beauty that you will choose longevity like I would love that how good Well, you can't be good at very easy one ready. You can always trust people to be selfish So if you want to be a good partner, then you want to make that person feel better about themselves when they're around you, then when they're not. And let me tell you, people would be true to that. It does not matter like how hot the next person is. It's like, if all they have to offer is kernel experience. And look, there are going to be some people that they just haven't done the work to get beyond that. And so they're stuck in sort of that loop of it's a drug like loop. So you have to be good enough to recognize when somebody stuck there. But like if the way that Lisa makes me feel is supported, is loved. Like I'm fucking seen in like the avatar way. Like I see you motherfucker. I know your weaknesses. I know the things that you're insecure about. And I'm here for you. I'm with you. And I'm not with you

because you've pulled the wool over my eyes. I've seen you at your worst and I'm still here. Like that shit. That's what we all want. I think we're all nodding in here, but what I have to say is what I would love to. And I guess this is what you do with all the the really impressive body of work that you've created in the last few years with impact theories that like what I want is for people to because like you just, a lot of people don't do the work. I'm wondering, like, I would, I want Tom, does the, you go talk to men about this stuff, because like, how do you get them there? Like, what would be the hook? Cause I'm saying, go to therapy,

feel your feelings, things are blocked, but how do you get men, like, is it the growth mindset that you guys talk about? Cause you talk a lot about that in your show and that is kind of self-improvement. I kind of like the way you say that, maybe growth mindset is better than being like go to therapy, go to Tom's university. What, what, because do you know these guys?

Of course, and I- Are you just hanging out with the people who are more normal? I mean, look, sure, of course. I attract a certain kind of person. So my friends are not going to be the more typically- But you know what I'm talking about. Of course, but so here's the bad news. I'm taking a lot of flack for this because I'm so fucking cavalier about it.

But the reality is you cannot want it for somebody. If they're not going to do the work, that's on them. Do not waste your time and energy trying to convince somebody who has no interest in being convinced. So it's like, never got there. Like they, it maybe like they might get there. But not because we asked 100% like it. Look, I might get there, but that's because we asked them. 100%. Like, look, I'm willing to accept that we can literally do anything

that doesn't violate the laws of physics, but some things are gonna take so much time and energy. You have to ask, why am I investing that much time and energy into doing that? Like, for instance, if we really had to change a guy, have you ever seen the movie The Game? Yeah. Okay, and they do this elaborate hoax that goes on for like a year or something, and they finally get this guy to essentially commit suicide, right?

But they save him with an airbag, and it's like, oh, you finally learned your lesson. So you could go to those extremes, and maybe it would work, but it's like, God, is it really worth it? So I get it. This is like me at my most typically masculine. I'm just like, I don't have time for that shit. Like if somebody's not willing to do the work,

that's on them. Well, that's what that's it. So because I was thinking when I started asking about when you said that you were like weaker and emotionally you weren't as evolved, it sounds to me like you pretty much, it was more about the confident stuff or working on mindset,

but you always had sort of an emotional compass. Yeah, well, how about I use different language? Please. Confident stuff or working on mindset, but you always had sort of an emotional compass. Yeah. Well, how about I use different language? Please. I have always been very in touch with my feminine side. And when you don't understand masculine energy and feminine energy and what's attractive, then you find yourself in trouble. Because I have had some ridiculous missed opportunities because

I was not approaching it with confidence. I was being feminine and more withdrawn and like, oh, god, it literally is making me cringe inside. I'd even talk about this right now. So it's like to do that, set me up to be to have a skill set that was very powerful as a husband, but I could never get to that stage without first realizing no you have to like tough in the fuck up you've got to like get strong and centered and you've got to be able to step into confidence and all of that and then it was like whoa I could actually attract women. women. That was like a game changer for me. You can find more about Esther Porell at estherporell.com or by following her at Esther Porell official on Instagram. Find more John at johnwineland.com or on Instagram at john underscore wineland. Tom

Bilieu is the founder of Quest Nutrition and Impact Theory. Find more about Tom at Impact Theory.com and on Instagram and Twitter at TomBillieu. That's our show and I really hope you enjoyed this best of special part 2. So if you're new to your part 1, go check that out. And just remember this, like everything else in life, our sex lives are fluid. They're constantly changing from decade to decade, year to year, sometimes day to day. What feels really boring today and isn't a turn-on might really excite you tomorrow. So just remember, take time to play and have fun with your partner. Make sure you both have a growth mindset around sex. You're both willing to talk about it and try different things and see what

turns you both on. And remember to always have really honest, truthful, authentic conversations with each other. That's it for today's episode. See you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sex with Emily.

Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating, or relationships, call my hotline 559 Talk Sex. That's 559-825-5739. A go to sexwithemily.com slash Ask Emily.

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