Sex With Emily - Talking to Your Kids About Sex With Shafia Zaloom

Episode Date: September 29, 2020

Today on the show, we’ve got Shafia Zaloom, a health educator and author who develops curricula for sex education in schools across the country. Shafia and I discuss the most effective ways parents can teach their kids about sex to develop healthy sexuality and cultivate shame-free knowledge.Shafia also brings up specific words and strategies to use in helping children learn about sex, so that you can go into conversations about sex with an expert-level toolkit. We also get into how to teach consent and what we can do improve Sex Ed in schools. Spoiler: It starts with you!! The show ends with me taking calls and answering questions, like “what do you do if your partner hates oral?” or “how do you stop dating the wrong person?” No question is off-limits.For more information about Shafia Zaloom, visit: shafiazaloom.comFor even more sex advice, tips, and tricks visit sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and on today's show, I'm talking with Health Educator Shafia Zalum. We share tips for talking to your kids about sex. Plus, answer your emails and calls about how to break toxic dating patterns and what to do if your partner isn't into receiving oral, but you love giving it. All this and more, thanks for listening. Consent is a vibe and it starts from how you approach a relationship. It isn't just when people's denitals are interacting. Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our

sacred institutions. Betrubize they call them in a fight on day. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. My guest today is Shafia's Alum and she is awesome. She's a health educator and she develops curriculum for schools around the country. She also wrote a great book, sex, teens and everything in between. We talk about how to take shame out of the equation. I mean, can you imagine what your sex life would be like now,

if no one ever shamed you about being a sexual being, what a world. We also talk about how important it is for parents to get on board with talking to their kids about sex. And I know if you're like, oh, I could never do that. Well, don't worry, when you listen to this, you're going to feel a lot better. Get really specific in this episode.

And very specific strategies. How to talk to kids. And how to get them comfortable with you, asking questions and getting curious. And how to teach consent to people of all ages. You're going to love this interview. I also talked to a caller who's in a pattern of dating alcoholics.

She just keeps dating alcoholics. She does a lot of data alcoholics, but it keeps happening. And you're for dating a pattern of dating alcoholics. She just keeps dating alcoholics, she does a one-of-a-day alcoholics, but it keeps happening. You're for dating a kind of person to just keep showing up and just not working for you. I can actually relate. I actually dated a few alcoholics in my day. Why do we do these things? Well, I give some advice about how to stop the patterns that don't work for you so you can find people who do work for you. We're going to get into that. And also, what to do if you just love going down in your partner and so don't work for you so you can find people who do work for you. We're going to get into that. And also, what to do if you just love going down in your partner and she won't have anything

to do with it. All right, in tensions with Emily. So for each show, I'm going to start off by setting an intention for the show and I encourage you to do the same. So, what do you want to get out of this show? For example, it could be, oh gosh, I really need to learn to talk to my kids about sex, or I've been wanting to figure out how to talk to my teenager about consent without making it awkward. Well, my intention is to give you specific strategies and the words you can

use to make it a hell of a lot easier for you and your kids to have healthy, open, and shameless conversations around sex. All right, enjoy this show. Shafia Zaloo, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, of course. I'm excited that you're here because I have been on this sort of obsessive track lately around, I mean, for many years, I've been doing this, you've been doing this

for a lot longer than I have, I think, but I've been doing about 15 years and it was mostly educating, talking to adults. But what I realize is that now I have a lot of young people in my life, I have three nieces who are teens and friends, kids, are all of age. And in the last five, 10 years, it's like, wow, there's no sex education. I realize how similar the questions that people are asking me, that the young people are asking me,

adolescents about sex are very similar to what adults are asking. And also, a lot of people are calling in or listening to the show because now they have teenagers and they want to know what do we do? How do we talk to about sex? And there's a lot of people are calling in or listening to the show because now they have teenagers and they wanna know what do we do? How do we talk to about sex? And there's a problem because if parents never learned, how do we actually talk to our kids about sex?

I know you've made this your life's work. And so, Shafiya, tell me a little about yourself. What's your back or how do you get into sex education? Well, you know, I always had had I was blessed to have really positive relationships in my life and that made all the difference for me in a really quality education and so I was a social worker when I first got out of school and was working with you know kids in treatment centers as an alternative to incarceration who had had a lot, who were wrestling with a ton of issues, that all really revolved around relationships or the type of

relationships they had as they were growing up. And after several years of that realized they really needed to get into more preventative work versus so much interventive work so that I could sustain my own life and start a family and do all those things. And because relationships and education had always been such a strong force in my life, I chose that path. And started, I guess it's been 25 years now. And that's sort of what took me to this place. Yeah. Okay, I got it. So tell me, you know, how do we approach talking to teens about sex when a lot of parents are feeling that they don't have the information themselves or that it's still taboo and shameful? I mean, there are a lot of really great resources out there.

I think part of it is there's just so much information and so much about sexuality that you really have to know where to find them. And I think that a sex positive approach is that we all strive for. Like we all want to raise our kids to be good people to have positive enriching relationships, romantic as well as sexual ones. And so I think it really is twofold. First, the information's out there. Find the medically accurate information from credible resources and share that with your kid in developmentally appropriate ways.

And you're educating yourself along the way. It is okay. No one taught us this, you know, either. And so, we are pioneers. And, you know, if you can talk to your friends and say, you know, I don't really know how to do this, how are you doing this and force each other to create a sense of solidarity? Because typically as parents, we tend to like to do this together, especially if our kids are younger, we do that really well, as they get older, our teenagers tend to want their independence, and we tend to not have as many opportunities to connect with each other, but we should. So find those places where you can connect with each other.

You know, test the waters and see how open and comfortable those folks are to say, like, how do we do this? How can we communicate consistent messages that align with our own personal family values, but also give kids the information they need to keep themselves in their front safe? And then with your kids in those conversations, you're really, it's the value of these small victories, you're collecting moments, you're scaffolding this over time. It's not one big giant talk. It's little ones over a longer periods of time.

And it's OK. In fact, it's a tremendous gift to be able to say to your kid to role model healthy vulnerability in an effort to connect in an authentic way. To say, I don't know, but this is really important. And sometimes the most important conversations are the hardest ones to have. And so let's find out this information together and figure this out in a way that works with all the things we've been teaching you all along. Now, for some parents, kids suddenly start screaming, I'm running from the room, you know, whatever it is.

I don't want to hear you talk about stuff. Yeah. I'm like, I'm dead. They might happen to have a quality health program at school and they'll say, but I know everything I need to know, don't worry about it. You know, I'm learning,. Don't worry about it. I'm learning, I'll learn it in school. The thing is, is that parents are absolutely

the primary sexuality educator in a child life. They're not the only one, but they're certainly the primary one. And you're the consistent person that they are going to be connected to throughout their life. And so those people who teach them, education, relationship, education, sex, education, all those things, they're going to throughout their life. And so those people who teach them, education, relationship, education, sex, education,

all those things, they're gonna come and go. They'll have an impact. It's a huge blessing to have that resource, but really you're the consistent one. And there are ethical aspects to sex education, but like those family values that are essential to it, the only you can teach those to your kid. So parenting adults are really important in that role.

Well, what I have a question for you, Shafia, where do we start? So let's say I have a, let's have a daughter and she's 12 years old. We've never talked about sex. I see she's going through puberty, she's, you know, developing breasts. I know that kids are starting to talk about it and I, and I don't know what to do. Like, what would, where would you even start? Like, what would,

could you run me, walk me through that conversation? So, first, you have to think about a few things and prepare yourself, right? So, you have to know that kids need an environment free of judgment, shame, and ultimatums to share with open honesty. So you're gonna build credibility with how you approach this from the beginning. And if you haven't done so great so far,

that's okay, you can always do a do-over and you can even say that and narrate that to your kid. But it's really important to make sure that you work out what you need to first, so that you can approach the conversation in a way that you maintain, compose your role model maturity, and you're able to suspend your judgment. And some ways to do that is to start with, I notice.

I notice this pretty judgment-free. So you could say, I notice your body is starting to change. I found a book that's all about that. It's really normal. It's super healthy and I want you to feel good about it. So here's some information about that. Then, as you start to engage in conversation, when you ask a question, stay away from why. Why?

Once you ask why you've already made a judgment, and kids are really sensitive to that. So instead, lead with how, you know, how are you feeling about that? How do you think that person felt? Do you think they were on the same page? Or what? What would it take for that to have felt better for this character or that person

if you're watching a TV show, for instance? Media is a great way. So there's the information about bodies and stuff that can come in a book or a website or whatever it is. And they're plenty that are out there, they're age-appropriate and really sex-positive and talk about values and readiness and all those sort of things. But then how you apply that information to the complexities of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics is a really important part that kids need practice with across the developmental stages. They're learning how to think about this, just like they are in all the other courses that they're taking in school, right?

We build upon different levels and that's the same thing. Media is a fantastic way to talk about this with your children. It's a little less personal and intimate. It allows for you to discuss other characters and scenes and things like that. All you need to have is one or two questions in your back pocket. I notice, and do you think they both got to walk away with their dignity? So using like a story in the media, like if there's a story that comes out about bullying or even if they're watching a TV show, right?

Is that what you're saying? And they could just say both. Yes. So, you know, I came across the story in the media. This is what happened. You know, what do you, how would you, you know, deconstruct it a little bit? Break it down. What do you think about that? How do you think that person felt about how they were treated? What would have taken for someone to step in and make a difference in a positive way? Same thing with the show.

Find out what your kids are binge watching and what they're exposed to on a regular basis. The American Academy of Pediatrics has, out of lessons, exposed to 14,000 sexual references a year. You know, a lot of that comes at them in the form of music, media, all kinds of things, but find out what they're watching. What are they binge watching? Watch it either with them.

This depends on your relationship and your child, with them or separately, but then you can come together and talk about the characters, the relationships they have, and discuss and drop your values in that way, you know, what takes place in those shows. So you'd say like, I noticed that you're watching Big Mouth on Netflix. I noticed that you had a quote in your book from Nick Carl, an endorsement to your book.

And then you might say, I noticed you were watching, you know, which is an amazing, I think it's a great series. I really do think it's a wonderful, it's animated series about sex education, about young kids. I mean, and saying like, I noticed you were watching that and how did it make you feel when you saw the scene about the woman, you know, the young girl growing breasts, right?

Is that kind of what you would, that's an example for people to like, just use real media, real things happening and listen, right? No-why. So, why? Go ask why. Yeah, no-why. Note it, you know, you notice you listen and you know big mouth can be somewhat cringy

Adults tend to really take to it or it's just really hard to watch especially when I'm talking to crowds of parents And so again watching on your own or watch it with your kids depending on your relationship with them But I would say something like would you think about that scene when Jesse was talking to her vulva? So get to know the characters. Talk very specifically about what's happening. How do you think Nick felt when Andrew was making fun of him in the drug store and talking about his nipples? You know, you're going to have to get a little, you know, don't go too far because then your kid will go running from you. You have to be specific enough to show that you have interest. You've really paid attention and that you're willing to engage in a substantive dialogue with your kid about this and keep it brief. Really keep it brief.

It should be ongoing. The thing is, it's like everything in life. The more practice we have, having these conversations, it'll become second nature. You won't be able to not, you will be able to not have the conversation, right? Like, if it becomes part of your family dialogue and you watch a movie and you go home and you just, it just comes up.

And I think that the hard part, and you mentioned this, that parents have to first, though, understand their relationships to sex before they can talk to kids or know where they're coming from, but I think that like again, so many parents haven't even done their own work yet. They've never heard anybody talk about sex. It still seems so taboo and shameful and wrong that they can't quick it past that early upbringing, you know, where they were chained for it.

So how do parents start to do that? It's an ongoing life's process, even for those of us who've been working on it for a little while. We're all on the same journey, just at different places. And so I think, you know, treating ourselves in the same way that we hope our kids will treat other people they're in relationship with and to lead with empathy and to be compassionate and generous with ourselves when I come to this is really important.

But directing open honesty is important too. And to be able to say to your kid, you know, my sex education was full of shame. And I'm still working through some of these things. And I know that you really need this information. So I'm going to get it for you, and here are some really good reading. And we're going to figure this out together. But I just want you to know that I'm figuring this out for myself too. And I don't want to be, you know, TMI, and I won't give you too much information around that. But I just want to be honest with you about where I am on this one. The other thing is, resourcing other adults, you know, if there are other adults in your

circle, you know, the village concept, I mean, really, truly. It does take a village. Yeah, so other adults, like you're an aunt, I imagine you're an incredible resource to your nieces, you know, where you can have that degree of separation, or someone who's a little younger, who may seem, have a little more credibility at this point in an adolescent's life. Talk to them and ask them,

please, you know, talk to my kid, has to be someone you trust. And don't go asking them to reveal what those conversations yield because you have to be really careful that you have to pick someone you trust. Go to them, say, you can tell them this will remain in confidence. They really trust you. This is the information I'm hoping they'll get.

Can you please have these conversations or could you do that? It's a big responsibility. So make sure they're comfortable with it first. But resourcing other adults is really essential. It is okay. I guess if you're not okay, if you're not comfortable with it, it has to happen. I've heard this, you know, it's either you or you you or you porn, who's going to do it, right? Who's going to educate the kids? So, I feel like that's sort of been my role. Definitely during COVID, everyone's home more. And a lot of my friends read, John said, can you talk to my son?

Can you talk to my daughter? And then I did a Zoom call with my niece, who's 18 and 10 of her friends. And I just, 10 of her girlfriends and we got on a call and I was like, this is a safe space. I always tell them, like I will never reveal any of this to your parents or anyone. But it was just, you know, and you realize at first, they've all been friends for years,

but they had to even talked about it before. Just, I feel like how a lot of teens talk about sex is they'll say something like, you know, either they had sex or they didn't have sex. I gave them a blowjob. I didn't give them, but it's not about how they felt. Did it feel good? Was there any pain? Was the awkward? It's just very perfunctory because they don't know where else to get. That's all they know about it. It's like, let's just talk about the action and not actually about consent. And did you want it to happen? And did it feel good?

So good times talking about sex. Um, Shafiya, you want to hang out? We're going to take a break. I'm talking to Shafiya Zalum, her book is Sex Teens and everything in between. Don't go anywhere. We've got so much more to talk about after this break. Shafiya, this is so helpful.

This is a great, your book is a great resource for parents anyone to read, truly. Sex, teens, and everything in between, the necessary conversations teens need to have about consent, sexual harassment, healthy relationships, love, and more. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's what I wrote it for. I would finish a parent education, workshop or talk, and parents would come up to me afterwards and ask me questions, really specific ones, and they'd say, okay, wait a minute, can you say that again and hold their phone up, recording my voice?

Like wait, I just need to capture the language. And so that was why I wrote the book, so that I could include all those questions, that prompt conversation, sort of role models for them, how you would answer questions, and then provide resources for further educating yourself. It's funny that you say that because I often, I could tell you right now the top questions, you know, I get asked on the show, and everyone feels that, you know, it's typically about like, how do I have an orgasm, or how do I get my partner to blank or I want sex board that my partner. And you must have your top questions too. What is that question for you

when you're speaking to a group of parents? It's to a group of parents, you know, it's sometimes it changes with the time. So like we've talked about, you know, how do I start this conversation? Where do I even begin? And then a lot of it is just the language because we haven't had a lot of practice with this and we haven't had a lot of conversations that are substantive and meaningful with kids or with other people, you know, practice doing that growing up because we didn't get it ourselves. And so I do believe, you know, talking with a partner, talking with a close friend who is also a parent or someone else who can be a sounding board to try and figure out how you exactly want to express. You know what you want to say, what are the questions that would be really helpful. Some people talk to think, some people think to talk depending on your social style, you know, really figure that out so that when you arrive to have a conversation with your kid, not that you want to be scripted or overly

prepared, but that you've actually given some thought to it in a way that you would, any meaningful conversation you would enter into, you know, you get you've invested in and I think they appreciate that. For sure. Good to practice it. We often do it on the show too. We'll kind of roleplay with people and help them. You know, help, it's really hard if you don't have the words, you know, and I think we have so much to remember not to be so hard on ourselves because I think we assume that we should know or that we're doing something wrong or, you know, but, you know, we're not taught communication

at all. Like, literally, I wish we were taught this stuff. I feel like all this stuff is so useful for adults. So how would you start teaching kids about communication? When it comes to sexual relationship and sexual communication, I have an analogy. So kids are really concrete thinkers. The majority of them, if we're talking about adolescence, even older adolescents and adults, this analogy can help.

So I would ask you are a room full of kids, a room for adults. This week, I just did the whole middle school, high school, and parents. I was talking about this. So think of a bear, an animal, the bear, right? So think of one, conjure up one in your mind, and I would ask everyone in the room to think of a bear, and typically bears would have some similarities, right? Four legs,

two little ears, probably furry in some way, and we can have a conversation about a bear, but it would probably be pretty basic and superficial. I ask everyone, so describe your bear, you know, to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken to be a chicken, black bear climbing up a tree, gummy bears, you know, baron steam bears, all these different California bear on the flag. So you know, all these different bears, and then you ask everyone, so what do you notice? And everybody in your looks, they're like, well, they're all different. So yeah, so you know, when it comes to relationship and sexual communication, it's think of a bear. Like we can't make assumptions about people's bears bears because we all know what it is, but when you really start talking about it, you realize that your bear could be very different from

someone else's. Sometimes, I'll hear a panda bear, some scientists think pandas are actually raccoons, they're not even bears. So then, where do you take it from there? So they say, I noticed that we're all different. And then, where do we go from there? They notice say I notice that we're all different. And then how do we where do we go from there? They notice that everyone's idea of a bear. So it's kind of like everyone's idea of sex is different too or everyone's idea of the next question I would ask is so what contributed?

What contributes to the bear that comes up in your mind? And the same bear I you would tell me about today might be different a month from now based on your experiences, right? So you know, people will say our experiences are knowledge, those different things, and that's very true of sexual and relationship communication too, right? That, you know, what we bring to a conversation will determine how we experience our connection with someone else. So we can describe in really concrete ways these concepts for kids that they can draw on personally and understand, and then build a concrete bridge into the context of sexuality.

So, okay, so when you're talking to a friend, we can't make assumptions. If you're having a conversation about where you want to go, what you want to do, or let's say you're exploring sexual, you know, each other sexually, you have to be pretty specific to say like is this okay with you? Is it not? Because you may have different bears. Consent is a vibe. And it starts from how you approach a relationship. It isn't just when people's genitals are interacting or their bodies are interacting. And so when you approach where you're going to go and how you're going to spend time with each other, ask about each other's bears. And just like you would say, what color is it, what's it doing, where's it sleeping,

how's it acting, you can translate those questions into the relationship questions like, well, where are you comfortable going? Have you been there before when we go, what kind of food would you like to eat, you know, those sorts of things where you're really sharing responsibility and how you connect and spend time together. I love consent is a vibe. I think that's great. It is a vibe, but it could be a cool vibe.

That's what people I think consent gets such a bad rap, but the truth is consent can be so sexy because the absence of consent is where a lot of our anxiety comes from because we're not sure if somebody's into us or wants the same thing we do and then we we don't know how to find that out you know and it's good we don't know about consent but once you clear that and you learn to get specific in your desires and what you want in the moment then it can be just a more pleasurable experience to connect with someone sexually because then you realize like, oh, we've already cleared that.

Like, I know what's on the table, what's off the table. You're not in your head worrying. Like, is it okay? Do they like me? Are they going to shut me down? For sure. Yeah. And consent for kids, you know, it's really important.

We'd be concrete and explicit. Consent is a pretty low bar when it comes to a really positive, pleasurable sexual experience. It is essential. It protects the fundamentals of human dignity. And it's the floor and not the ceiling. And so it's really important that our kids get that message, that it's just, it's not just about avoiding a felony.

It's about like, you know, it's really about connecting with others and exploring sexuality in a positive way because it's supposed to feel good. That's the whole point. It should be good. And so I talk to kids pretty explicitly about what consent is, the legal responsibilities certainly, but then also what ethical and good steps are because we have to be talking to kids not just about what is the bare minimum but what they're going to aspire to. We do that in all other aspects of

their lives except for this one and there's decades of research that tell us it's actually the most important one because consent is the foundation of relationships right like it really has to do with autonomy and agency in your relationships, which is so important. Yes. And so when you go on to the ethical and the good piece in talking about it with kids, it gives them a sense of, OK, so you're believing in me that I can do positive and good things.

And the research tells us it's not their grades, it's not where they go to school. This is for all people. It's not our performance or our achievement. It's actually the quality of our relationships that will determine the quality of our lives. And we establish those patterns of behavior when we're younger. Yeah, I love that the quality of our relationships determine the quality of our lives. It's so true. You know, they always say that you're the five people you spend the most time with. You are the sum total of the people that you, you know, and you look around you. It's like, do I want to be the total of these people in life?

I think relationships really are everything. And it's funny because we're often told how important is to have healthy, nurturing, and we're not even just talking about sexual relationships, but all relationships. But yet we are so ill-equipped to be healthy communicators. Shafia, we got a question from Instagram, and it's from Lynn, she says, are there good resources for starting sex at in kindergarten? Now, the only place where I've heard that happening,

I mean, I know there's probably private schools in the US, but it's in the Netherlands, where they have renowned programs where it starts very, very young. So what do you have to say about that? Good resources for kindergarten. I mean, good resources. There's a great book. It's called Sex is a Funny Word and What Makes the Baby.

Those are fabulous. They're a great place to start. And really as parents, we should do that that too and how we're teaching kids. Correct body parts for instance also how we treat each other matters. Nareting emotional responses to how we treat people in faces so kids can be empathetic. There's all kinds of ways in which we can start when they're really young to nurture and cultivate the capacity. That's interesting how do you value? I love sex as a funny word it's funny because my youngest and they're really young to nurture and cultivate the capacity for equality. That's interesting.

How do you value? I love sex as a funny word. It's funny because my youngest niece who's 12, she's like, I know because my whole, it's changed now, but my family is gonna be like, oh, and Emily does this, you know, create this thing in California, like it's dirty and they're better now.

But my 12 year old niece has to be, she was, it's just, what you sex is funny, it's funny. What is it? I think she might have been 11, now she's 12. But I's just what you, sex is funny, it's funny. What is it? I think she might have been 11, now she's 12. But I'm like, yeah, it is true. That's a great title. So sex is a funny word. How do you teach that empathy, for example?

Like are you saying like right now, can you see my face is, you know, I know in my home growing up and this is like, I've had to learn through therapy and a bunch of other modalities is that there was a lot of anger in my house. So I never really saw, and I know this is because my mom grew up in a home that was angry, so she never really displayed anger. And so it's sort of confusing sometimes to know, you know, it's all about healthy expression of all the emotions, fear, sadness, anger, joy, but how do we model that? I guess

you don't know, you don't know if you grew up in a home where there were, you know, I didn't know this until I was older, but I kind of like that know if you grew up at a home where they're, I didn't know this until I was older, but I kind of feel like that's what you're talking about is teaching that, right? Yeah, the most powerful, I mean, we can do do overs, right? Like so we're all human and sometimes we don't express our feelings in the healthiest ways. And to come back to our kids and to say,

can we have a do-over because this is what was going on with me and genuinely apologize to say, I really didn't do a good job with that. And this is what I was hoping to say and to do. And I'd appreciate you listening. When we talk to kids and we mediate conflict amongst kids, let's say we have more than one, you know, and to say, what was your intention versus your impact in kid language? You know, so what did you mean to do? What do you think happened?

What do you see on Jared's face? What do you see in Kai's expression on their face? What do you think that means they're feeling? And then asking that person is that how you're feeling and then asking the other kid is that what you meant to do, those sorts of things. And how we cultivate empathy and morality across the developmental stages, you know, is first narrating those first kind of expressions. Cluing kids into, we have an impact on others and we can actually see things in people's

faces and bodies that are an indication of how they are responding to how we treat them. But then also appreciation, it really starts with appreciation. So the capacity to recognize in other people how they contribute to our lives in positive ways. And then as kids get older, that moves into gratitude and that gratitude then becomes empathy. That we are able through our gratitude to recognize that we are all in this together and that other people contribute to our lives to make us who we are. And so it's how we treat each other matters. And it's really important for us to recognize that in others. For any brand called that, the whole hearted living too,

and being empathetic in all the different ways in which the four components of it. I love that. So, teaching kids about appreciation, moves into gratitude, moves into empathy, which is so true. That is the experience when you really do that kind of work. Beautifully said. So, with the resources for starting in kindergarten, I wish we did more of that here, but people are like, people think it's crazy when I say we should start teaching, you know, at a young age, and it should be in elementary schools,

and it should be everywhere. I think that people have this assumption that if we start teaching kids about sex, they're going to start having sex, which it couldn't be further from the truth. I know there's so many studies that fewer teen pregnancies and less bullying in schools and much, you know, add lessons who have sex are reporting that it's much more healthy and consensual and pleasurable. And so I think we know that. But what is your vision for a successful sex education system in this

country? I think ultimately we really want to create a comprehensive program in department with trained teachers, just like we have for every other aspect of a kid's education, because we did move to and it is recognized widely and nationally that we want to teach to the whole child, right? But in terms of our definition of what a whole child actually is, does it include sexuality? I would say absolutely yes. Who we are as whole people includes all those aspects of healthy sexuality that are so essential and important to a quality life and strong well-being. So, I would say from the beginning that it needs to be comprehensive from kindergarten all the way through college,

realistically kindergarten through 12th grade, and that you're really balancing, I mean, I have a whole way by which I break this down, age appropriately, just like any other subject, math in particular, you're going through so many important skills and learning so many important things like numbers and values and quantities, right? And then how to put them together, how to think about it, and then how to apply it to real life.

It's the same thing. So to have, you know, an established program that is funded and supported and bought into in the same way all the other subjects are to have a trained teacher who is empowered to do the work they're being asked to do in a way that addresses all the essential elements of healthy sexuality and relationships from the time kids are young at that kindergarten stage all the way through till their senior year in high school. And how close are we to that right now? It depends on where you are. When you look at it from a statistics perspective or you look at it in a way that, you know, how many states actually require a sex education, how many require it be medically accurate, how many require consent actually be a part of it. You know, it's pretty abysmal.

Completely. I mean, only half of the United States require it is for graduation. Right. 16 states or something required, requires access to medically accurate or something like that, ridiculous. Yeah, and only eight that consent be talked about. And there's right now the majority of funding, you know, if there is any for it,

has been reinstituted for absence, only education, which has been proven through congressional research to actually be to the detriment of young people's well-being, not to better it. And that's not to say absence is an important, it absolutely is. It's fundamentally even to a concept like consent, but absence only education is politically charged. And that has taken priority recently. It really depends on the state. And, you know, we have to recognize and understand there are some amazing sex educators out there creating incredible programs for young people that are just

phenomenal, that are doing that very thing, that are positive, that are nurturing, that are focused on skills, not just content, and the value of healthy sexuality and relationship education for young people, and trusting them with that information and their intuitions and everything else that they will do right with that quality information to make better choices for themselves. And that happens. Yeah, it does happen, but I feel like, you know, we live in California, you're in San Francisco, information to make better choices for themselves. And that happens. Yeah, it does happen, but I feel like, you know, we live in California, you're in San Francisco.

I'm sure it's much more open there, but I would love to see it everywhere. So if people can get your book, it's a great start, sex, teens, and everything in between my guests is Shafia Zalum. Shafia, thank you so much for being here with us today. They can buy your book everywhere. Amazon, your website, shafiyazalume.com. We'll put it on our show notes at sexwithemle.com.

I really, really appreciate your time here and it was very inspiring and you're doing great work. And I'd love to stay connected. I would love that too. Thanks so much for your interest and for having me. Of course, of course. Thank you so much. Sex with Emily will continue after this quick word

from our sponsors. Let's talk to Steve Forty in New York. Hi, how are you? I'm in a new relationship. It's been about two months, and this girl is amazing. She's probably the one hopefully finally but um my question is she's like really into like penetration and toys and not so much with the oral sex and she told me in general that she doesn't get off from receiving oral sex which I find I've never come across that before so I just want to note that was was common or not because usually I've experienced the other way around where women are at the world sex.

Exactly. Steve, great question. It is, I don't like to use the word common, but what I found in my practice is that here that there are women who don't like oral, heavy oral sex performed on them because their clitoris tends to be a little bit more sensitive. And what I've also noticed is that for these women who are very sensitive, have sensitive clitoris, they actually have more orgasms during penetration. So does she have orgasms during penetration? Oh yeah, like she likes to be like, penetrate like with fingers, that's like what she likes a lot or a bit. Yes, yeah, no, that happens for some women. They just don't. Those are the, now there are some women who say they don't like it because they have shame around their bodies or they don't have to receive pleasure. But it sounds like she might be one of those people and that it actually doesn't feel

good. I mean, she told me she likes the way I do it. She just doesn't have an orgasm from it. Well, then you can still do it and just arouse her, but she's not going to get there from it. That's just how it is. That's, but it's not that, I mean, it's, there are women like that. So that's the story. I guess I'm here to come to terms with it. That's like one of the most favorite things I like to do. So I know I know I can't get this girl out from oral. I'm like, wow.

Oh, that's so funny. I mean, you could also, you know, you could do, yeah mean you could also you know you could do yeah you could go down in her and use toys at the same time yeah she likes that I'm sorry Steve I know it's funny it's like we get the opposite right like usually there's women who are dying for a part to go down and they don't want to it's like you want to do it in this woman but yeah she likes using football toys are made so she wants to use build those army all the time. And I never let a woman do that. But I let her and I kind of like it.

So I guess she's there. There you go. Maybe this is more about you exploring your sexuality right now. Maybe this is a definitely an experience. Yeah. Why not ride this wave? See where it goes. Appreciate it.

Steve, appreciate you. Let's wave. See where it goes. Appreciate it, Steve. Appreciate you. Let's talk to Lisa, 51, in California. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling. Hi. Hi. So I have been back and forth for the last several years between these two guys who are both

my exes. And the one is like super intamine. The other one's just like ghost me all the time, but the one thing they have in common is they're both just complete alcoholics. And I look back on my dating, I'm 51, so pretty much the majority of the relationships that I've had have been with alcoholics. So over and over and over, that's the pattern. So what do you think that's about, Lisa?

Did you have a parent that was an alcoholic? Yeah, I don't have a lot of alcoholism in my family. It's just weird how you hate growing up with that. Like I can't stand alcoholics, but yet, that's what I'm drawn to. And I think I just feel like I know how to work that. I know how to deal with that. I don't know.

Weird. Right. And is it something that you're ready to kind of change right now? I'm assuming you don't want to keep being that Gollix. Yeah, I had that pattern too, to be honest. I used to date alcoholics Some were sober and some were working through it or it was they were like, you know functioning And so what I realized is that what it is for a lot of people Lisa is that it's not only that that that they're attracted to you It's that you're like you actually just said your behavior is such that you know how attracted to you, it's that you're like, you actually just said, your behavior

is such that you know how to handle it, right? You're like, I know this behavior. So you've adapted, like you've adapted in response to growing up in a home with alcoholics. And I don't know what that behavior is for you. Is it people pleasing, is it caretaking, is it non-attachment, Caretaking totally. Caretaking.

So you're like, I am going to, yeah, I'm going to be cherished. I know how to take care of this person when they have a hangover or they mess something up, but yet where you're getting your worth from is being a caretaker. You're like, I can solve any situation. I can do all these things. So that's your work is realizing where you can get to the place

where you realize that there's other things that you have to provide in a relationship. And it's not that. It's not caretaking. Like there's a part of you that could still learn to love parts of yourself, maybe that you don't. You know, it's a pattern though. It's like literally like realizing the next alcoholic that walks in or you're like, nope. But have you had any therapy around this Lisa? Have you ever talked about it? Someone?

Yeah, I've been in therapy often on for about 30 years. Very sporadically here and there. And I'm currently in it. And over the last four or five months, I've just done a lot of tremendous work like you're talking about. We don't really have any other choice. We're just focused on our lives and what's going on. So it's been very helpful and I feel like I'm working through a lot of it. I'm so glad, Lisa. I'm so glad to hear that. It's true. Yeah, I've done some great work

over this on the Zoom with my therapist. Like, oh, God, there's still more. There's so many more layers to peel back. And just makes life richer. Because if you think about it, it's like if you just keep doing that and I've probably dated several for years. And then even the ones that you think are now co-holyx, co-holyx, right? You ever do that? You're like, what?

Oh yeah. So it's just because it's literally like, that's what we see. You know, it's like they say when you're going to buy a blue car, every car is blue, right? It's like, that's just what you see. And so now, the effect that you're calling it out of a name for it, like, this is what I do, you have to start cultivating other things that are just what you see. And so now the effect that you're calling it have a name for it, like this is what I do,

you have to start cultivating other things that are attractive to you. So what helps is also writing a list of your non-negotiables and like reading that list, really getting granular and specific. And then when someone comes up that doesn't, you know, it just won't work for you, but I'm glad to hear you're working on it Lisa.

Yeah, well thank you so much and you have a great night. You too Lisa, I appreciate it, things for calling. Okay, this is from Maddie25 in Nashville. I'm a brand new listener and I have a couple of questions for you. First, I've never really masturbated, but I'm interested in wondering how to even start. I want to purchase a vibrator or some other pleasure device, but I'm completely overwhelmed by the vast amount of options. Is there one main tip you would give to women

beginning to explore their personal pleasure? I love this question. I typically recommend that women start with a literal vibrator, meaning it's an external vibe that you can sort of tease yourself with and learn your body and kind of figure out what feels good. And a lot of women's first pleasure experiences start with the vulva, the clitoris. And so I wouldn't recommend like an insertion vibrator for your first one, you know know I love the zoomio because the zoomio is built for exploration It's all about exploration and the funny thing about the zoomio is a

Lot of women their first time vibrators were actually a toothbrush of Electritude brush which I'm not recommending But in that spirit the zoomio has this little tip on it. It looks like, if you're saying it looks like a toothbrush, but it's not a toothbrush. It has a little pleasure point on it that rotates. And it's really cool because it allows you, like, my recommendation is to take a mirror and sort of get a look at what's going on and get to know your body. It's an amazing thing happens when you take a mirror and you look

at your genitals when you're getting turned on as a woman, your vulva, you can see that it starts to swell, that your, you know, clitoris starts to open like a flower, right? Your vulva, your lebia, it all opens up. The blood starts to rush and everything becomes more swelled in and gourd, which is really cool. So the zoomio allows you to sort of pinpoint your pleasure. Also, Wevibe has a great one called the touch. It's a great product that you can hold in your hand. It's like the shape of like a little deck of cards, maybe even smarter than that. It's oval and you can use it with yourself, you can use it with a partner,

it feels really good, like it's a really body-safe silicone and it's got a point on one end. So you can flip it around and use it different ways, like if you want to get some pleasure sensations, you want to apply more pressure, so certain areas. And that is the Wevibe Touch. I recommend anything by Wevibe, really. They're fantastic. So try that out because I think it's a great place to start just exploring and seeing like what it gets in the loop, obviously. You know, I feel, you know, get some pure PJUR, get some good loop, don't cheap out on the loop, especially for masturbation. And when you're exploring and you've, I wish, get some good lube. Don't cheap out on the lube, especially for masturbation.

And when you're exploring and you've, I wish, I wish I knew about lube. We know when I started masturbating, I wish I knew how much better everything feels and how good it feels to actually like to touch yourself and how it actually turned you on more than just being dry because the clitoris is not going to lubricate itself. This doesn't happen. So get some lube, virus of a toy. Like I say, the Ziumio, something by Wee-Bide, there's also new sensual makes a bullet as well. So beginner toys, bullets, handheld vibes, things for the clitoris.

Well that's it for today's episode. I'll see you on Friday. And thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review. And tell all your friends, your partners, your lovers, about the show. If it's helped you, I promise it'll help them too. Weaverly shows on Tuesdays and Fridays,

and look out for a bonus episode every now and then. You can also find me on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. It's all sex with Emily. Oh, and I give really good newsletter. Sign up at sexwithemle.com. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, your dating life, relationships, message man and Instagram are called into my serious XM show Monday through Friday, 5-7pm Pacific, 8-10 Eastern, and you can just call me there, save this number, triple 8-94 stars, or triple 8-947-8277, and

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