Sex With Emily - The Lies of Monogamy w/ Dr. Shefali

Episode Date: August 21, 2021

How has culture shaped your sexuality? According to my guest Dr. Shefali Tsabury, culture has conditioned us to suppress, cheat, and lie to ourselves. But radically authentic love and desire IS possible if we’re willing to confront common myths and make the conscious decision to live free.In this fascinating conversation, Dr. Shefali talks about how to rethink marriage as a model for growth, whether monogamy is natural (or not), and how to replace societal conditioning with something more wild, interesting, and frankly pretty sexy: worthiness.For more information about Dr. Shefali, visit: DrShefali.comFor even more sex advice, tips, and tricks visit sexwithemily.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are doing our part to allow the takers in our lives, to take or whatever dynamic we set up in our lives. It's not that it's not true that they are with a narcissist taker. Of course they are, but they have to look at what they're doing to maintain the citadel of that relationship. It's a fortress and it takes two to keep the fortress up. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation

around sex. On today's show, I'm joined by author and psychologist Dr. Shafali to discuss what culture has done to our sexuality. Dr. Shafali talks about how to turn your pain into power, how to rethink marriage as a model for growth, whether monogamy is natural or not, and how to replace societal conditioning with something more wild, interesting, and frankly, pretty sexy, and that is worthiness. Now Dr. Schvallya's specific opinions about marriage and monogamy coming from her own

experiences. She's also speaking from a heteronormative perspective during this interview and I just want to acknowledge that penis and vulva owners have varying desires and motivations so it's completely valid if you're different from the people described here but I'm certain that you will find something to relate to in this episode. These are just generalizations and stereotypes you describe our culture more than any individual. Alright, intentions with Emily. For each episode, I want to start off by setting an intention for the show, please join me in doing the same. Well, my intention for this episode is to bring

more awareness to the cultural limitations we put on our sexuality. There's no reason for anyone to feel shame about experiencing pleasure. I mean, unless it's actively harming someone else, we all should embrace our pleasure. Alright, five ways to boost your sex drive ASAP is a new article on our website. Check out all of our articles. And just a reminder, friendly reminder, please rate, review, subscribe, the podcast, wherever you listen, you can do it right now. It helps us keep the show free and available. If you want to ask me a question, just call my hotline.

It's 559 TalkSex 559 825 5739. If you don't want to leave a message, you can just send me a message at sexwithemily.com slash askemily. Alright everybody, enjoy this episode. Dr. Shafali is an expert in family dynamics and personal development. Oprah's favorite parenting expert, New York Times bestselling author and renowned clinical psychologist. Her newest book is called a Radical Awakening, turn your pain into power, embrace your truth, and live free.

Well I just loved, loved, loved your book. There is so much to unpack that it's almost like I wish we had six hours, but we do not. Not today. I would love to move into the lies, the lies of love, the lies of marriage, the lies of monogamy. Can we talk about that? What are some of the lies of love? Well, that love, you know, whenever we get into a love-based relationship, we are immediately talking about what does this mean? We want to label it, we want to define it, we want to prescribe it, we want to contain it, and we want to control it.

So love that doesn't end in quote-unquote marriage, really, you it, we want to prescribe it, we want to contain it, and we want to control it. So love that doesn't end in quote-unquote marriage really, we act like it's not love. You know, marriage seems to be the pedestal. And that's not true. You know, actually marriage in many ways is the anti-pedistal because the greatest love is free. You know, it's organic, it's spontaneous, and it's uncontained. You actually don't need to get married. That's the greatest love, right?

To have a couple or whatever, the configuration, to stay in love and not get married. Now that's love, right? Because they don't need the legal contract. They don't need the backing of the church or the court or culture. They don't need the endorsement. They just know who or culture. They don't need the endorsement. They just know who they are.

That to me is the strongest love. Yeah. But we've got it all convoluted here. As if, you know, yeah, let the priests sanctify. Why do you need the priests to sanctify you? Why do you need culture to come watch you? Why do you need the galaxies of a contract? A contract.

Think about it. We have contracted love and we call that that is the pinnacle. No, that is the end technical. So what you're saying is, and one of the lies that you talk about in your book is that we are told that if we're in love, well, that means we have to get married. And I struggle with that in my 20s. There was an expectation that if you dated someone seriously, you just have to be thinking about marriage. And while I wasn't ready to prioritize marriage myself, so I found myself really alone in my beliefs.

There weren't many other role models with people who were saying, I'm just going to date and I'm going to decide what kind of relationship I want to be in. And I want the listeners to understand that we're not saying monogamy and marriage isn't right for so many people. But I also want you to know that there's options that might work for you. You don't have to get married. You can have a partnership without the legal contract. You didn't buy into the institution.

Of course marriage can be for whoever, but understand what you're doing. It's an institution, it's legal, It's contractual. It's judicial therefore So you have all that interfering and you have religion interfering and what if you did not get raised in these ways You wouldn't get married. You just be loving. Why does love have to be you know, and I did it Listen, I went for the institution so I can now talk from both sides You know do what do it, but understand what the hell you're doing. I don't have the party.

I promise I'll buy a match every gift. Just don't legally sign a contract because you don't need to. You don't need to lie. You don't need to. You know, I'll bring the whole town to watch you. I'll make sure they all give you gifts, but eat a lot of cake, but just don't legally. You don't need to because it is set up for then control, for possession, for you know, you're breaking a contract, you're not breaking anything, you're just leaving a relationship.

Right. Because suddenly it becomes about you sign a contract, you promise me your life, it's based on control and fear. And then it becomes about scarcity, not abundance, not growth. It quickly can turn into all these things. And when it does, that's a tragedy because it doesn't need to be. You know, I personally felt that I was so alone in my beliefs because it never made sense to me

that I'd never be attracted to someone else or want to have sex with someone else. until death, through his part seemed like a really long time to ignore my attraction to other people. And I remember thinking this at 19, not to mention all the elements that go along with it of possession and ownership of another person. Why do you think so when you will blindly sign up for marriage? Yeah, I think you're right, and I think you actually had humility. I remember the reason I got in and I think most of us people won't like what I'm about to say.

You know, given that it has a 60% failure rate in America and the fact that we're getting married every week just shows that it must come from some blind delusional grandiosity like this. I know what I'm saying. I can predict the future. I am amazing that this person will never want to look at anyone else. And what we have, unlike what every other 60% of the failure couple rate have, it's special. You know, it's like Cinderella founder prints. I'm telling you it comes from some divisional fantasy because actually we don't know the future. We are not that amazing. We not even explored ourselves. We don't even know who we are. What the hell are we doing? Especially if we're under 30. What are we doing? We're just playing house, you know. You

meet the mommy and I'll be there. And we I'm telling you it's a grandiose delusion coming from some narcissism Then you know what I'm gonna be amazing and then Then at least you would realize well, I live in this bubble that I'm so special Listen marriages failure rate is I mean failure rate. It's not a fake. You know, it's just reality the reality rate is so natural and It's just reality. The reality rate is so natural. And if 60% are quote unquote going through it, another 30% are thinking about it.

Okay, I mean, yes. And then 10% are about two. So, and I say 2% are really quote unquote happy. But it's not about happiness on happiness. It's about happy, happy, happy. Now I need to move on. You know, it's just so simple. It's not about unhappiness, it's not about failure,

it's about now the container is not serving me anymore. You know, but we're not allowed to think like that. It's blasphemous and, you know, it's the antichrist. It's the message from the devil. I mean, what, you're people are gonna be so upset. Well, personally, I felt so alone and I didn't have any models around me of people who chose not to get married or have kids. But I also knew which just didn't feel right for me and I also knew the failure rate of

marriages. Yeah, and listen, I was in the marriage for 25 years. No joke, you know, I did it, was in it. I've been a parent parent my daughter's 18. So I'm not talking against anything. I'm talking in a way that helps you deconstruct what you are within. I'm not against it. I'm not pro it. In fact, I say go do it because you learn so much. But what I want to teach people is just understand what you're doing and how you're in control mode or possession mode and ownership mode and just see it for what it is so that when you're going through it you understand why you are going through the pain you are. Can you talk more about the connection between control and possession and marriage? Well, you know, it's what we've been

alluding to that when you get married, implicitly, there's an understanding that I'm the only one you're going to be attracted to. I'm talking about a traditional relationship. You should have eyes only for me. You know, women typically are getting upset when their husbands are looking at anybody, you know, okay, can you cannot look apparently? You can, your eyes belong to me, your eyeballs belong to me, your penis belongs to me, you know, your body parts belong, your imagination belongs. Everything out of that is considered a sacrilege, right?

How could you do this to me? You promised me your fidelity. But really, when you break it down, what does that mean, right? How are we owning another person? Because they are the ones you love and then what is love? And isn't love then freedom? Of course they're boundaries, but the boundaries come to communication. Communication is the best boundary.

Right? The only real boundary you can really have with another person is clarity, communication, negotiation, understanding. You cannot tie that person to you and tell them that their behaviors and actions belong to you. And if they go with their own free flow, now they're between you. You know, the other person is like, you know, I'm just doing me. How am I betraying you? But it becomes about betrayal because we have that in the vernacular. It's set up. Keep betraying me. She cheated on me. You know, how about, you know, she's exploring herself or he's finding himself these words we use, chika, betrayal, you know, and we

were so pompous and righteous when the other one messes up like that. Right. You have jurisdiction because of this contract. We're going to take very quick break to your response, but come back because Dr. Shafali and I uncover how culture has truly shaped our sexuality and might be preventing us from having the sex we want to have. We're right back.

What has culture done to our sexuality then? Oh my goodness. It made us all live, chief, and pretend. I mean, really, we're not faking orgasms, men are faking fidelity to put admirably and stereotypically. Everyone is lying. You know, if you're alive to your sexuality, men are faking fidelity to put it mildly and stereotypically. Everyone is lying. If you're alive to your sexuality, there's no way you're not going to be exploring it.

And when you explore it, you go into murky waters. So it's so dangerous to talk about these things, you just don't talk about. It's very dangerous. Yeah, it's not encouraged for us to feel safe talking about our sexuality and our desires. We're conditioned both men and women by religion and the pure tantrum of this culture, shockingly pure tantrum to really suppress our sexuality. And so women are taught, you know, we're slutty or we're horrors or I don't know what labels we're given. Yes.

We are, you know, if we masturbate or we explore or we like different experiences and men are taught, you know, and men, you know, they think they, they, the only way they can be is to get married. So they get married foolish, and foolishly not realizing it could be way beyond their capacity to be monogamous. They want to be monogamous, but it may not be part of their capacity. And so then they find themselves leaking here and leaking there. And women may think it's an insult if they watch pornography because they're trying to get some leads met.

I mean, it's such a value judgment placed on sex and exploring sexuality, so much judgment and fear. Because again, we possess the other person's body parts, and so it really takes openness from both sides to open up this beautiful sexuality. And women are trained in particular to actually not be sexual, right?

We are inhibited. And orgasm pause is not easy. So, you know, it's not immediate or easy or directly. Oh, it takes at least 40 minutes with a partner, 20 to 40 minutes on average. And we are different orgasm, different things, and we have not been taught how to explore it. And so men and women right there are at odds.

Right, men can orgasm so fast, so quickly women can't. And then there's a mismatch, so then do we lie, do we fake it? Oh yeah, yeah. So it's something that we need to allow ourselves to explore more freely without the value judgments that we've placed on. Sexuality has also been corrupted by morality and loyalty. Sexuality is separate from morality.

You're not a bad person if you're a sexual person. You're not a good person if you're a sexual. You don't get extra points because you're just like one person. But somehow we think, I only have been attracted to one person. I'm a good person. No, you're just wow. Like, wow, you only been attracted to one person kind of person. That's all. That's all it. That doesn't mean anything. Right. Well, it means wow. Okay. Do you think there were meant to be monogamous? Well, research has shown that no dimorphic, and with species, where males and females can be easily

identified, or no dimorphic species is monogamous. We are monogamous by acculturation. And people argue that it's an evolved way to be. I think it's not. I think it's an acculture-rated way to be. But you just have to look at nature to see that no dimorphic species ever is a monogamous. And essentially we are animals. But essentially if you really break down couples you'll see that no one is really monogamous.

Someone in the couple is not practicing monogamy, either in fantasy, either in pornography, either in desire, it's just not possible. So what you're saying is, even if you're only with one person, it might not be a monogamous relationship because the lines are blurred truly about what it means when you're engaging an active fantasy on your own, which I think is healthy, but some would say that's breaking a marriage contract and societal expectations. Men just don't talk about it because they've been so shamed. You know, men are so shamed

to talk about how many times their penis is erected in a day, you know. Ask your male friends how many times they'll be embarrassed because they've been told that that's bad, but it's they're wiring. You know, and I'm not saying that they have to act on it, but they can at least be acknowledged or understood for it. But we were been shamed them. We call them animals, but they are and we are. So we're very cruel to men too. So men have their own code. And then they act out because they're not culture.

They're not told that they're normal or they're healthy. They've been told that they should be ashamed for God is you know. I know. I'm not condoning perverted behavior. Certainly not condoning violence. I'm just saying that they too have a huge shadow aspect to their sexuality. Why? Women are heaven. We're like oh, I don't want to fuck everyday, sorry. So you just want to fuck everyday. No, but they're different than you. They're completely different. They're wired.

I did this too. I was highly judgmental and moral. I was like, well, I'm just actually not on my mind all the time. So it shouldn't be on your mind. You know, but now I realize how felacious that is, how erroneous and how cruel I was. You know? Yeah.

Because you were protecting yourself. You were still in that role of protecting yourself of feeling like not lovable, not worthy. If he went out and he was masturbating or doing something else, you'd think, well, that's wrong, right? Well, also because I didn't understand how different males and females are.

Right. So I was just very presumptuous and moralistic and righteous that if I don't, you should, it's like, I'm vegetarian, how can you be non? It's like, I was, and women are that, we don't understand the male experience and males don't understand the female experience. So we need to talk more, basically, right?

Right, exactly, but what about like shame and sexuality? How do you, yeah, we're just shame-fitted to this. There's so much shame we have around talking about. But religion has made sure we've been shameful, How do you yeah, we're just shamefully to this there's so much shame we have around talking about it Religion has made sure we've been changed Because religion has told us uncontrolled sexuality is bad and We need to control it and the more we control it actually the more we suppress it and eventually we have a perverted sexual

I which we do right now we're very perverted here in our sexuality. It's all hidden, it's all underground, it's all sneaky, you know, and nothing is out in the open. No one, you know, at a dinner party, no one would really talk about sexuality. But yet it's part of our everyday experience. We're just so ashamed. So religion has done its part to make sure that we feel like we're bad people if we talk about sexuality. Good girls don't talk about sex, of course. Exactly, right.

But in your book, your book is for mostly geared towards women, but I think that men will get a lot of it as well. I think that everyone should read this book. But this awakening process that you talk about and understanding the lies that we're telling about is I have to be perfect. And a perfect woman wouldn't be loud in bed or a perfect woman wouldn't masturbate a woman who is you know just all these these messaging so I think this your book doing these exercises of the book too and asking yourself these questions could really help so many women open up and realize other areas in their life it's

not just sex where they're not allowing themselves to fully step into their pleasure. When we don't step into our sexuality, it means we haven't accepted who we are, we don't welcome who we are, and we don't integrate who we are. So our sexuality is our way of celebrating ourselves because we've honored our body, we love our body, we are celebrating it with abandon. So it's a symbol of greater inner connectivity. Hmm. After the break, Dr. Shafali and I discuss her new book, Radical Awakening, and what to do if your partner won't go to therapy, but you know it's necessary. Be right back. There's one quote I pulled out about the Buddha. So the Buddha also said that life is Maya, meaning an illusion. Things are not as they seem. Can we talk about that? Because that seems to be one of the main premises of your book that we don't often really see life the way it is. Life is an illusion.

Sure. So because we are conditioned by culture and our childhoods so indelibly, it's really hard to realize that much of our reality is now based really because of our mental condition. So what we think is real is not real because it's really our conditioning. So much of our current life in the modern era, with all its institutions, with all its ways of being, with all its dogma and riding wrong, are not because that's the way it is. It's because that's the way we have been mentally conditioned to perceive reality as.

So unless we go on a quest to deconstruct our own minds and to become aware of our minds, we will think that things are the way they are, but they're not without realizing that no, it's the way I see them to be, right? So much of our reality, especially for women, is based on our deep pervasive ubiquitous mental conditioning, which shapes our identity, which shapes our ways of being, and we don't even realize it. So this book is an expose into the ways in

which we women in particular have been shaped to think of ourselves in particular ways and those ways are not true. They are the ways we've been shaped to think of ourselves. You know, I often say in the show like are your thoughts or not the truth and much like you, I actually did my first repossum of retreat when I was in my early 20s and so I've been on this path and I'm actually waiting for my next breakdown soon. But I know that you've gone through something in your mid 40s, where again, this is something that we often talk about in the show

and in life, people kind of get a spiritual life or understanding that we need to learn to understand our thoughts and investigate them. But I always say your work's never done. Can you kind of talk about what brought you to this next book, A Radical Wickeding, and what was going on for you? Yeah, work is never done, and it's always in layers, and you, you know, every few decades,

you're going to go through something really big, just inevitable. And the more you don't go through, the more the big one is coming. So it's better to go through many small ones, I think. But anyway, so, you know, I think like many women in their 40s who have children who typically by then are in their teens, the women in particular go through the next iteration of who am I. You know, we raised, I raised my daughter,

my daughter hit 15, and I went through another, you know, realization of who am I. And I had been going through, you know, a lot of spiritual unfolding all through my motherhood. I wrote four books. I was on this path. And I found myself at a juncture where my marriage was not keeping up with my growth. And the container of my marriage was not Outpacing my growth. So I I was outpacing the the marital container and So I went through a huge you know spiritual death in a way as many people may do when you realize you've outgrown your partner You're a container of where you were comfortable for so long. And I had to make a choice. Do I keep growing or do I go back into this container

which was so comfortable and lovely for me for so many years? But no longer was a comfort place. It was actually a place of discomfort now. So do I leave or do I stay? You know, I went through what many women go through. The choice was not so hard to make. It was obvious. But what I encountered in making the choice was what is in this book, which is the pressures women go through to make a choice like that. And the shame you feel, the guilt you feel, the fear you feel, not because the individual

choice was hard, but because what culture puts on you and the labels culture puts on you. So then when I realize, oh, I can make this choice, but I'm encountering cultural institutions that are making me feel ashamed, that's when I realize that, wow, other women must be going through this as well and I need to write about it

and honor other women by honoring myself and vice versa and give ourselves permission. So this book really is my own giving myself permission and giving other women permission to make big radical changes, to not be afraid of transformation, to go with the flow of their spiritual growth and not hold themselves back.

So this is a book that is an ode to courage, an ode to transparency and really an old to authenticity. Yeah. What I love that you're speaking about is that so many women and have a lot of friends going through this like who am I without the kids without without being a mom, you know, empty nest. What have I given up and maybe regret and then turning towards their partner, you know, maybe they've grown so much and their partner didn't keep up with it and they're all sort of in this place. And then when you think about divorce,

it sounds like this awful thing, like the way that we measure marriage success based on longevity rather than on growth. And then this notion that when you start to decide to get divorced thinking like, oh, I'm gonna be judged or what's a failure. What do you do if you're in a relationship? I know this is like a huge question, but and you've done your work. You've been in therapy, you've been talking about it with your friends and your partner just says, I'm not going

to therapy. I'm not working. I'm not growing and they don't want to grow. People's just stay many times. I know you come to a tough choice. I think those of us who take you know work seriously and grow will inevitably come to that choice point if their partner isn't. And you know we just have to ask ourselves what do I honor about the present moment? Do I honor my growth right now? Or do I honor the safety of the relationship? It's typically a trade-off between safety and familiarity and the unknown of your growth. And it's tough, and everyone has to make that choice on their own, and there will be many regressions.

I eventually took another two years to really eventually be. It's not easy. It's not a quick, like just walk away. It's not reaction. It's not a quick like just walk away. It's not reaction. It's not instant gratification that we're talking about. It's really discerning where the choice is. You know, and you have attachments in the old life. You have memories in the old life. You have children in the old life. So it's a lot of pressure for women to make the choice with wisdom, with compassion, without guilt. It takes time to grow into that choice. And if we looked at marriage as a model just for growth,

it would be so much easier. It was way harder for me because all of culture looks at marriage as a failure if it's not based on longevity. So then the partner has egoic issues around betrayal and hurt. But none of this would exist if we understood that it was based on growth in the first place. So is that the world you'd like to see? I mean, I know I would. When people are like, let the questions you need to ask someone when you first meet them and you talk about this as well. Like, do you have a growth mindset? What are your priorities? How much do you love

yourself? Are you working on yourself? And instead, we're looking at their jobs and their families. And it just seems like there's so much to teach people, right? In this way, we don't, we're often looking for what society has told us is important. And yeah, I talk about it so much how important is to do your work.

But what I love about your book is you really do break down what that work is. And I love the way you talk about your inner inner child. I've heard you say that in a relationship, it's really just your two five-year-old selves playing in a sandbox together. Can you talk more about that? Yeah. So we grew up with this conditioning which forces us to abandon our authenticity a long time ago, the conditioning of our culture and our childhood forces us to receive love and worth through false ways. So we learn, we have to be beautiful, we have to be skinny, we have to be successful, we have to be rich, we have to be perfect, we have to be nice, we have to be pretty, we have to be kind, it's good to be kind, but you know what I mean? You have to be kind, you know. So we then forsake authenticity for all these ways of being.

And when we forsake authenticity, we leave our true experience behind on the sidewalks of our childhood. When we leave our true experience behind and now we've developed a persona, which in the book I call the ego or the false self, the false self is relating to the world. And because it's false, it won't last. It will lead to resentment, burnout, addiction, because the false self is looking for worth based on something false. So just by that, its predication is that without it, it is unworthy. So it needs it to get love and worth. Without it, it is based on unworthiness. So unworthiness is right under the false self, therefore it will never last. So at some point in our lives,

we're going to have to confront our sense of unworthiness. And that's what really the whole book is about, is that at our core, we believe we are unworthy. That belief system is alive. And unless we revoke that belief, unsubscribe from that premise that we are unworthy, we will keep attracting more false selves to more false selves and the pattern will continue. So in order to now heal, we need to stop the false self, touch upon what's really underneath, which are these feelings of insecurity and unworthiness, and begin to heal that. And that is a mental process, it's a psychological process,

it's an emotional process, and I lay out the process in this book. The book is written to be a path. And if you read the book as a path and go on the path, at the end of the book, you will have achieved some semblance of insight, awareness, and transformation. Yeah, I recommend everyone goes on this path, on this journey with you in your book.

So let's talk about this belief that we're all unworthy, that we are unlovable, that we're going to be rejected. I mean, this often comes up on the show when we're talking about confronting or talking your partner about what you want sexually, for example, like we think, well, they're going to think I'm a freak or they're going to abandon me or they're going to leave me if I show them who I really am. Talk more about that trans of a more than this. Right.

So because we were not seen for who it is we were as children and because we were not honored for that just as we are we have this pervasive sense that we're not good enough as we are we need to be an athlete a violent player a student, we need to become these things in order to become worthy. That's how entire childhood is set up. That's how our education system is set up. So as children, we learn that we are good enough if and when only. So we have all these conditions. So therefore, you know, we are constantly trying to achieve those conditions, but we

cannot always achieve those conditions. So the minute those conditions are not met, we are in a panic. So we have to really unpack this for ourselves and see that we have predicated our sense of worth on these factors. So for me, it was on being the good girl, the pleasing girl. So it's very hard even today to let go of the pleaser because right under the pleaser is unworthiness. Who will I be? I will not be loved if I'm not a pleaser. So I'm trying to retire my pleaser. I'm trying to fire my pleaser. It's really hard because I draw the pleaser, then be authentic, frankly.

You know, it's just my mode. Like I don't know how to undo it. Even today, I'm like, I have to like tape my mouth, you know, bind my wrist so I don't act like a pleaser. So this is in these ways. So in this book, I talk about all the archetypes, the savior, the pleaser, the rescuer, the victim, the martyr, so many of them then. You break it down. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I'm a pleaser, too, and a perfectionist. And I was so excited for this interview and you covered so much and I get there, I'm like, I just want this to be a great idea today too. I'm like, I don't even want to talk. I just want her to talk, but then I talk over you.

You know, I want you to like me. I mean, I do it all the time, but I often say I'm such a pleaser and it is not serving me anywhere. And that was definitely in my home growing up, I had to be nice. I had to be pleasing to everybody or I wouldn't know who would listen. My mom had that blank face, like if any emotions, like just she didn't register unless I was happy, right?

And I often say we gotta do our work from childhood, but it's just like, you just don't get, I think the other thing is you just don't get there. Like even you saying that today you had to do that. It is a daily practice. Yeah, because what is embedded in those first seven years is like, what the hell? It doesn't get erased, you know? So now you have to always be present. And that's why present moment awareness is so key because you can watch yourself doing it, you know? So now I can tell myself, oh, I'm in my pattern.

Oh, I just did my pattern. Oh, you just gave trust away without caution. And that those are acts of the freezer. So recognizing your pattern, and I talk about that all in part two, is so key to realize that I'm doing this because I am anxious that I'm unworthy. And it's hard for us competent women to get in touch with the fact that we're actually anxious. But it's not that we have to be crazy people, but we have this underlying sense that we will not be loved. So it's our bravado is always so competent, but underneath is always there. And it

may only come up in certain relationships where you would make come up in your career for somebody else in their motherhood for somebody else with their lover in the bedroom. But you have to notice it when it comes up and have great compassion for that part in you that has learned these ways from zero to seven and damn it, you have to, you know, pause it, disrupt it and not go ahead over our view. It's always there. Don't be with me up there. Well, even when you just said this, I had before this not let it override you. It's always there. Don't think it's not there. Well, even when you just said this,

I had before this, I had someone come over who's gonna be working on my house and leaving town for a day. And I was like, no worries, here's my code. Come on in, I trust you. So just now I'm thinking, I always just a pleaser to someone come into fix. The women who are pleases will relate

this relinquishing of trust, and then we get screwed and then we're like, oh, when other people don't, we're like, how do you not get screwed? The people who are not getting screwed have boundaries. It's called boundary, right? So what you just did is classic pleaser. Of course I trust you. We just give bucket falls without the person having

done one thing to earn it. Nothing. Nothing, zero things. Zero things. He do everything. Zero things and you've got my trust. Correct. So then right behind that is the victim or the murder, right?

Now you're going to, you're within 50 times of doing that. If you're lucky, it'll take 50, but sure enough, by the 50th time, you're going to get screwed. Somebody's going to do something to violate that unabiding trust. You've just been crazy trust. So number 50 is going to screw it. And right behind now is victim and murder. And you're like, oh, poor me. Look at my murder.

Why does this happen to me, people are assholes, which they are, but we've created the royal road to being an asshole, right? Well, here's the carpet. Yes. I'm rolling out the carpet. No, and we've laid ourselves out. We're like, I'll lie down on it in cases of power, you know. So we have to watch our patterns.

We have to watch this setup, right? So I have all these archetypes. I have the givers of which is the pleaser, one of them, then the controllers, and then the takers, you know. And in the takers, people don't like to be takers, but many of us are. It's the diva, the princess, who thinks things should be done for her, given to her for free.

And then the child who's just waiting, you know, the child is just waiting. So I think everyone can recognize either themselves or their partners or their loved ones and typically two don't match up. Like I probably won't be with a pleaser per se. Well, typically if you have to please, then you have to, if you're a giver, you need something to be a takeer. No? So it's, that's a perfect matching sock is you be a gig. You take and I'll give.

Okay. Thank you. And then I'll'll be then I'll be resentful and upset right I love you also said I let people come in for the first few first few sessions and they're gonna talk about their boss then they're gonna go playing about their partner lend their kids and then you say to them can you do the world Are you ready to look at yourself? Right, right. So that's very hard for people, you know? Really hard. Because it's not that it's not true that they are with a narcissist's takeer.

Of course they are. But they have to look at what they're doing to maintain the citadel of that relationship. It's a fortress, you know? And it takes two to keep the fortress up, right? So we are doing our part to allow the takers in our lives, to take, or whatever dynamic we've set up in our lives. We are playing the other part. So I teach pleasers, for example, you're in a dance with life, meaning you have to wait for the person to do one step,

then you listen, then you discern, then you make a choice, then you act. You know, that's how you break a pattern. You wait for the moment to show up versus robotically doing your old pattern, your zombie pattern. So like you said, the guy came, you did your zombie pattern. He could be an ax murderer. Now Emily's going to be a real nervous. I did get a recommendation from a very dear friend

who said he's fabulous. So, correct, correct. Seeing a therapist, seeing counselor, seeing someone trusted, it's hard to do this on our own, isn't it? At some point, it gets hard to do it on your own. You start off by reading a book and I have courses. You can start off there, but at some point,

you're going to hit some real blind walls because that ego is a sneaky snake and it's going to tell you you're right and keep doing it and they're wrong. So it is really important to get the council of somebody to do the work. Thank you so much Dr. Shifali. This was fabulous. I want to ask you the five cookie questions we asked all of our guests, so they're cookie.

What is your biggest turn on? A wise mind. Biggest turn off. An unconscious mind. What makes good sex? Two whole individuals or more. Something you tell your younger self about sex and relationships. It's really important to explore. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? When allowed in a free container, it can be really an other world experience. I love it. I agree. Dr. Shafali, where can people find you by your books, your courses, all the things, join the Joachafali world?

Uh, so on Instagram, it's Dr. Speldao, D-O-C-T-R, Shafali, and then my website is drjustdrshafali.com. Okay. We'll put all this in the show notes as well. Thank you, Emily. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you for being here, so appreciate it. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to podcasts

and share this with a friend or a partner. Believe me, if you got something out of this episode, they will too. We released two to three episodes a week, find me at Instagram, YouTube, Facebook and Twitter. It's all at sex with Emily. If you'd like to ask me a question about sex or dating relationships, email me. Feedback at sexwithemily.com or sexwithemily.com slash ask Emily. And check out my website.

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