Sex With Emily - The Master Of O

Episode Date: June 7, 2014

Director, editor and author Ernest Greene visits Emily to talk about his new novel Master of O, power play, and collars and cuffs. He’s here to give you his straightforward advice for getting your partner to participate in kink and just how to keep things interesting- whether you’re casually dating or in a long-term relationship.Greene has been a member of the BDSM community for 40 years. He’s talking bondage, flogging and what it’s like to be married to Nina Hartley, sex-positive pornstar, director and sex educator. Emily and Greene discuss whether or not “kink-dar” is an real thing. The pair get into plain, pleasure, safe words and what the first thing you need to know about BDSM is. Does Greene think Emily is submissive or dominate? Find out in the latest podcast! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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What do you mean like laundry? It's shrink? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I'm so proud. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex relationships and everything in between for more information go to sexwithemily.com where you can check out all my podcasts, my blogs, my videos, anything you want to know about having better sex and relationships, just assuming why you're listening to the Sex with Emily podcast, you can find it on my website. And the easiest thing to do is just to subscribe to the podcast because I do two a week, you'll

never miss a podcast, they'll just end up right there in your inbox and I'll be good because I know you don't want to miss anything that I have to say. And I want to thank everyone for listening and I love hearing from you and I appreciate I read all your emails that you send to feedback at sexwithamily.com so keep them coming and also on Wednesdays between 12.30 and 1 o'clock Pacific Standard Time. If you're on Twitter and if you're not you should be on Twitter. At Sex with Emily, hashtag Ask Emily. I will be answering all of your sex relationship questions between 12.31.

So you can do that. Join me there. That'd be really, really fun. And today's show, I'm really excited about my guest, but I'll get to in a minute. But I have Ernest Green on the show, and he is the director editor and author of a new book called Master of O, which is based on the story of O, which is a infamous French novel from 1954. And it's a pretty erotic tale here. We're going to get into it. It's a dirty, sexy, hot, and we're going to talk about that. But I'm luckily, I'm surprised that Nina Hartley came,

who's also his partner. They've been together for 14 years. So Nina, thank you for joining me. Nina's been on the show several times. And we're going to get, because you know, one of the top questions I get asked in my relationship, in my relationship, in my show, is, how do we spice things up? How do we keep things interesting? How do I get my partner to try to do this or that? I mean, literally, I think that is probably the top,

I get three, ask three top questions, that's one of them. And so, I think today, there, you know, Ernest has been in the BDSM community for about 40 years. 40 years. And so, you know, I'm not saying that you BDSM community for about 40 years. 40 years. And so, you know, I'm not saying that you got to go all out BDSM, but there's a lot of elements here that you can learn, it can help spice up your relationship. And we're going to break it down for you.

And we're going to talk about how they've been happy and had a happy relationship together for 14 years. Well, they, you know, both, I mean, who keeps needing to hardly have you for 14 years. It's pretty amazing. And you're pretty amazing yourself too, not to say that you wouldn't be difficult as well, not difficult, but you guys have had your share of that. It is challenging. So I'm excited to talk to you guys both. We're going to get into all that. We also might get some emails today. And yeah, I want to talk to Anderson for a second. Anderson.

What up, baby? How are you? I'm good. I love that you came by my office today. I did. I did pop it. That was a highlight of my day. Was it really? Yeah. What's been a sad day? It kind of was a sad day because I was in the valley all day in a meeting. What? It's wrong with the valley. It's where I live. What do you try to say, but? I knew you were there. I would have had lunch. I was just like a really long meeting. Here's what the listeners need to know about Emily. Okay, so I walk into her office. It's smack dab in the middle of Hollywood, right? And it's like hopping. There's no place to park. All these tourists take pictures of... people are taking a picture of me.

People are taking pictures of you. They're so hot, they think you're so hot. All like those buses that have like the tops cut off and that the epicenter of Hollywood, where you are. Beautiful view on the 11th floor. No, Emily has no idea what's outside the window. None.

No, I just don't have time to look out. I know I have a view of Hollywood sign. Like the Roosevelt, the pool, you see all the Hollywood sign, downtown LA. I'm like, look at this, she's like, oh, I've never seen that before. No, I hadn't seen it before. I was there for three days before my friend came,

he's like, you know, you see the Hollywood sign, because that's bad, that's what I'm like. Because you're focused on the dick in front of you, which is good. You know what, though, I do love my office, and I need to appreciate it, it is beautiful office space. So thank you for coming by, and you saw my sex, you said, you're like, oh, I thought there'd be more sex

for a second. I was hoping for like 10, what do you like 50? I want to like like the Dear heads on the walls of hunters. I want to like giant black dogs on like I'm so sorry next time next time I'll do that for you, but I appreciate you stopping by it was it was fun to see you and So also I guess that's just oh one more thing on July 16th I will be teaching a workshop at the Hustler Hollywood star Which is legendary on Sunset Boulevard how to blow his mind With sex with Emily is what it's called you came up with that idea on the show. I did didn't I

That idea but the how to blow his mind and I come up with that title. Yeah, well not that you know So funny because I just came with the yesterday, but I for I should listen to my shows To most people listen to that because I was like you should just listen I'm like I don't have time. I don't have time to listen anything. Most people listen to that. Because I was like, you should just listen. I'm like, I don't have time. I don't have time to listen anything else. I did say that though. Oh, you should listen, then get caught by a listener,

like who can hear what you're listening to in traffic or something, embarrassed. And you're listening to yourself. I like, I don't know time. But yes, I am teaching workshop. I'm really excited about it. And everyone should just check out the Hustle Store in Hollywood's legendary.

It's been there for a long time. And so if you're in town, I would love to see you meet you in person and it is July 16th and I will have in the evening in the evening and I will have more details to follow. And what do you get to see if you show up? If you show up you get to learn my tips for blowing in the way in bed. There will be some blowjob tips, there will be some toy demonstrations, some kink, how to spice things up in the bedroom.

And we'll have some cocktails and some food, and it'll be great night. And the store is beautiful. It's amazing. It's a huge, it's a legend. You say, if you come to Hollywood, you're like, I don't want to see the Hollywood sign, you should also go to the next stop.

It should be on your checklist, yeah. It should. And if you're listening to this, and you do live in LA or you're there, you can tell them at the checkout that you mention my name. I'm a late sex family, and you get 20% off whenever you buy, I believe. You get you tell them at the checkout that you mentioned my name. I'm a late sex employee and you get 20% off with everybody. I believe you get some good percentage off. I shouldn't know that. It's 20% confirmed in here. Okay. I just said 20% of town. That's what I said. Okay. So, hello, Ernest. Hello. I mean, I am so glad you're here. So, okay.

So you've directed over 500 features. Can you start in a lot of Kinky features. Yep. And you also, so your book, your brand new book, Master of O, is based on the erotic novel Story of O, published in 1954 by French author Paulina Réage. Right? Réage? Pauline Réage, that was one of many. I thought it was Réage. And then it was supposed to be Réage because I do speak for it anyway.

It wasn't her real name. was one of many of the many. I thought it was Rayaj and then it was supposed to be Rayaj because I do speak for anyway, right? It was in her real name. So basically you bring Rayaj's tale of a Rodic submission to modern day Los Angeles to look at the other side of the famous stories from the male perspective. It includes detailed depictions of BDSM techniques like bondage, flogging, electrical stimulation, but also explores the remarkable intimacy and trust that comes from being on either side of that equation. And you've been active, like I said, in the BDSM community for 40 years, conducting

workshops and seminars, and he's been married to Nina Hartley, sex-positive porn star, pornographic film director, sex-educator, feminist author since 2003. That's what I have. It's a long time. That is a long time. Congratulations on that. and so our pornographic film director, sex educator, feminist author since 2003. So I have. It's a long time. That is a long time. Congratulations on that. Although it's just flown by, I gotta tell you. Really? Because you guys are so happy together.

Marital bliss. Midradias. Well, sick no kids. I hear you. I hear you. To me, that's that totally, I'm with you. I get it. We were past that before we did the marriage. But did you ever think that you, did you have earning,

earnings to have children ever? No, never hit me. I kept waiting and never. Right. No battery in the bottle. Nothing. I kept waiting. I don't have it.

It didn't happen. Yeah, they forgot to want your clock at the factory. Right, exactly. And I'm fine with that, right? We've full lives without it. So, okay. And I looked around at my family when I was young and decided to write that in there.

And that's enough of that. Same thing, same with me. I'm like, my family really, like, marriage divorce, the whole thing, no thank you. So, okay, Ernest, I mean, I just, I have so many questions for you, but I wanna know first though, like your history, like when did you first know that you were a kinky soul?

I never didn't know. From the first sexual thoughts that I ever had, they were all around power exchange and power play. They were all around bondage and things associated with it. They were all about that. Like at what age? I would say that by the time I was maybe 12 or 13. I knew this was what was going to be. But how did you know? Look at you. Had you seen images? Have you been watching? Where? I just respond. I'll tell you I remember listen by the time I was 10. I'd already tied up every kid in the neighborhood We had to move 13 times before I was junior high school. I believe it is

That's a whole other subject. I do do believe that it's somewhat heritable It's in that sense it there if there's a gay gene. There's probably a kinky-jane There's probably is a kinky-jane because I have other family members who you know Without consultation and having grown up nowhere near each other when we bump into each other, the subject has a way of coming up. So, yeah, I think that has something to do with it. And I also just found it fascinating and intriguing in some way. Was the thing that pushed the button? Right. It was the thing that got you going. So how did you find partners that were suitable for you?

Well, fortunately, I think also as with other kinds of unusual sexuality, people who have it have a sort of radar for it. So people find you. I never have had any. I've never had to look for partners. Where did you go up? I grew up in Denver, Colorado. Very unlikely. Very unlikely. One glad you're saying that because a lot of my listeners are like, how do I find a partner? How do I know? How do you? It really won't be a problem if you're really there when I it started for me when I was in high school and a girl a year ahead of me in high school was a cheerleader and couldn't have been a more unlikely partner for class nerd I had somehow decided that there was something about me that was

just the thing that she needed and just the thing that she needed was to be you know tied up with scarves and spanked with a bell before I have a sex I have no idea how we would know but somehow we knew the guy and somehow she looked at me and she thought it's unlikely But it's got to be him right and in fact it she proposed this before we had she said hey time me up She's like 17. Yeah, and before before we actually got around to having conventional sex We did that as for play and it's pretty much been that way for me ever since So can you have just traditional sex without any of that or just doesn't do it for you? Well sure I could and have and have and have

You guys have just have a regular no no no no no, but why would we I don't know just because sometimes you're like I'm tired I just don't feel like getting out the whip to tie the chain You know if I'm that tired, I'm really probably not in a mood for sex anyway. Every time. He's not a quickie. He's not a fast trick. Sometimes not quick, but just like 15 minutes maybe, but you don't want to get it.

Never. Do you have the underbed restraints and all that? I mean, you must have everything. We have a whole room. I'm, oh, you do. No kids. No kids, right? Yeah, so we don't have to put anything away.

That's true. It's, it's, it's, it's very convenient for us. And in fact, what we do for a living really compliments it nicely. It's more than what we do. But even if we do something that for us is like a relative, quickie, the dominant, submissive aspect of it is still there. You're still wearing a collar. There are certain little symbolic things that we do.

So even if what we're doing doesn't appear to be particularly elaborate or unusual, it's the headspace from which we're doing it. Yeah, right. Okay. That means the most. That is the most important part of it. So Nina, have you always been into being the semester? I don't think I knew this about you.

No, I've always been. I feel like I knew. I've always been into whatever sex is happening in the room with very few exceptions. Obviously gay men are not going to have me in the room. Have a respectful woman are not going to have me in the room. But for me, my dad's sex is, oh naked people wear. How can I join in? So when I think of sex, I don't think of having intercourse myself. I think of being in a room with sexual energy and seeing where I fit in.

I never had a dominant submissive fantasy, but I fell in love with the man, not the role. And so to, in order to have sexual attention from Ernest, I needed to learn his love language. Luckily I'm very, very, I'm a, I'm a universal adapter when it comes to sex like a stem cell. And so if I like you, if I'm just in sex with you and you have a particular way of doing it, I'm happy to learn that way in because I'm always fascinated with what gets people going like you.

It's like, oh, well, totally. Yeah, no, I'm actually the same way. And so, some people would think, oh, what is that? Like you're just following it. No, I'm open. I'm open. I'm never trying to.

I'm down. I'm down. Consenting adults, otherwise, you know, no one's cheating, no one is lying to all here on purpose, and we know why we're here. I'm down for anything, within reason. I mean, I have some hard limits, but everybody does. So it turns out that the kind of sex earnest likes to have

is for me, super slunny, slun inducing, and for the only man I've ever slept with, it doesn't get boring. Oh, I see that. Every other guy's like twice and done. Can we clone him? Oh, please, I've been trying. You've never been bored of all the men.

You've never been bored. And I have a lot of men. I know, I'm sure a lot of people will watch you have. And the most exciting man I'd like to have is four times a year, only if I don't talk to them in between time. So defines someone I live with. So we have a, we times a year only if I don't talk to them in between time. So to find someone I want to I live with I so we have a we have a we work together. We're married and then the hot sex is this crazy after for I just crazy That's amazing you guys are able to gather crazy. What is the secret then? Well in our particular case

It just it happens to be that our That our desires align even though the the template on in which we in which we express them really comes from me, from the DS place, but as far as the things that we actually do, we just do a lot of interesting, fun different things that's never the same twice. Always, see that's what I... I'll think about it. There are five behaviors. There's hugging and kissing, sucking and fucking, and... What was it? Hugging. about it there are there are five behaviors there's hugging and kissing sucking and fucking and most hugging and hugging no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no we hugging, we casting, we sucking, we fucking, we get head and everything. But what we do is sometimes asking do people have regular stuff? That's what it has to do.

Yeah, well, we do, but we do this at the same time. So if the average length of sex is 15 minutes, kiss, kiss, hug, hug, he gets erect, they move to intercourse, he comes, maybe she does, they fall asleep. So if we play for 90 minutes, there's 20 minutes of looking at porn and having a drink and there's 20 and then so there's There's sucking and fucking reading and spanking and so we maybe mix it up. So they're still in 90 minutes of play There may be 35 accumulated minutes of intercourse Maybe 40 and the rest is other things right so it's it's a party right? I love it's a party every time. Yes, it is

Seriously, you are right now you have like people listening to you and how the hell can I get that? Can I get that out of there even into it? It's about me. It's what we give attention to. Right. We honor it. It is.

It is. Learned. It is a skill set. So what would you tell? Because like I said, not everyone's, they always, I mean, I mean a million times day, I woke up this morning, I had a three press request. How do we spice it up? And then I mean, really, like, you want to show how you should take a vacation?

Get away with it. But there's more to it. It's more about communicating and just fascinating about, and picking the right partner that you know is has the same sexual preference. And not expecting, and not expecting that the new sex spontaneity mutual lust all the time is going to be able to,

be able to hold off right. No, you're going to have to use your imagination in addition to all your other parts. I mean, that's going to have to be in there. And one thing I would say right at the beginning, there is not everything that we do and not everything that we know about what we do would be applicable to most people's relationships. If you are not in some way bent in that direction, it's not going to work for you. It's not going to turn you on. However, there is something that is a practice that is part of what we do that I think is adaptable to every kind of relationship,

which is negotiated, communicated, understanding in advance of what it is that you want to do. That's the thing that's absolutely necessary. Yes, that's absolutely necessary for what we do because it involves safety. It involves people's comfort level, not taking them too far out of their comfort zone. A little bit is okay, too much, not okay. So you've got to know all that stuff up front. Well, I think that would be a thing that what we call feel part of the expression, the nila couples

could also stand to do. I agree, and I feel like there should be some kind of intake form when you start dating someone because I feel like so many people are mismatched sexually, I mean, because they don't understand that you're the first nine months a year, it's amazing, and then all of a sudden, they're like, I feel like every day people wake up and sexually because they don't understand that you're the first nine months a year it's amazing and all of a sudden they're like i feel like every day people wake up and they find out that

the world isn't flat they're like right oh my god well i don't know what to do we've been together now we don't have sex anymore and i'm not trying to do a sheet of the monitor he doesn't want it i'm like people this happens this is normal it's natural how do you avoid that people except people expect sex to just happen the media support that just happening tv and movies it just happens we didn't think about it Ernest and I think about it. We make date nights. So we know that on Friday at five o'clock, so in five o'clock and five or five or five or five or whatever time we start, there is the

daytime. Then they're setting up the space and setting out the right. It's not your ritual. And that really does get you in the space. It does. It does. Like for play. Ritual isn't sacred, it allows the sacred to emerge. So what we respect in each other is we respect our sexual life together enough to make space for it and give it a full attention. Computers are off, phones are off, nothing, if it's not bleeding or on fire, it can wait.

Right, exactly, turn the phones off. People always say that they just, you know, they can't make time, because they don't prioritize it. I think that people have to start talking about sex very, very early on because then you won't have all the, you know, if you're mismatched sexually, but you've been together and you've kids and all the thing, they don't see how you can get out of it. And you're never going to change something. If you want it more, you decide you want something different and you can't talk or into having

a threesome or having some kind of, I don't know, you can't talk someone into it. Well, actually, you can try like saying, let's watch porn and see what interests you, but these are the things that you gotta figure out before you walk down the aisle, before you make a commitment. And I'm just wondering like, like you know, I tried to say we'll talk about it, but people are so uncomfortable talking about sex,

which is why they're emailing me with 10 page letters. I'm like, what? Talk to your partner, they can't, they don't, we don't give you the relevant. We don't give you the relevant skills. Well, the thing is that with the kind of sex that we do with bds m sex You don't have the option of not communicating right there are risks involved in fact There are various terms to describe what it is we do the current one currently trending one is called risk-aware

Concentual kink okay, right? For sure I like that okay nice ring to it before that used to safe, sane and consensual, but I always thought the word sane Look people who wear latex in July You know and think it and think it's good. I don't know I've been to San Francisco for 20 years. I'm like, yeah, who doesn't really text and so I know I get what you're saying But I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. We're gonna get I get that as yeah, of course Because the awareness that's necessary to do this safely and to do this in a manner that's not psychologically harmful and that isn't going to get you arrested. You really do have to sit down and go through that questionnaire.

You don't have the choice of not confronting the question of what's okay and what is okay. Right. Then after you've gotten those boundaries laid down within those boundaries got incredible freedom because you know where those limits are and anything inside of them. Okay. Right. Exactly. foundry's got incredible freedom because you know where those limits are and anything inside of them's okay. Right exactly. So what if someone a couple is just starting out and they're thinking, God, you know, I just would like to tie up my partner or I'd like to blindfold her him and how do you? There's a lot of terrific literature out there. Believe me, the world has changed greatly since when I began and all of this, there's lots of good stuff to read. There's lots of good stuff and bad stuff online,

that has become, in my opinion, our greatest challenge is how we are going to deal. I know. Huge influx of people who are fascinated by this, and anybody can represent themselves as anything, in that situation, you don't have to prove as you did, when I got in, you had to sort of prove that you were, at least serious about learning how to do it safely

and correctly, now you're not gonna prove anything, if you can convince someone to go along with it, you could about learning how to do it safely and correctly. Now you're never going to prove anything if you can convince someone to go along with it, you could probably, you know, get them to do that and the results might be okay or they might be not okay. So we have some challenges of our own. I mean, when I first joined an SM group in Los Angeles, which was at that time the preeminent Los Angeles Angeles SM group it had 64 members this was back in 1983 well by the time I eventually had been you know head of that group for six terms it had it had grown to seven hundred and fifty members and I thought that

was a kind of unwielding number that's a lot that's a lot of what we're talking about yeah by the time nineteen eighty seven or eighty eight rolled around it suddenly because you know after Madonna came along and started wearing her underwear on stage everything changed change the world and then they were in a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, these are partners in the group or are supporting each other? It was actually mostly about education. It was about learning techniques because there is a technical aspect to this. If you're going to do BDSM sex in a way that's going to be mutually satisfying, there are things that you need to learn how to do. Like break it down like if you're a beginner.

Well, if you're a beginner, the first thing you need to learn how to do is to get access to one another's fantasies. What do you picture yourself doing? What role do you picture yourself in? What sounds like it would be exciting. Then you begin to address the practical questions of how much of that fantasy can you actually make real within your skill level. Now, you have the advantage these days of being able to attend all kinds of seminars and events and courses and so on and so forth where people who have been doing this for years can show you how to do the thing that you want to do.

But you will still have to focus on acquiring the skills necessary. I used to teach a lot of bondage workshops because one of the things I used to do is rig bondage professional for photographs and so on. And I would start out with a roomful bright-eyed interest to young folk and I'd have all this gear and junk laid out on the table and throw it on me all, gonna rope some chains and stuff. And I'd say, so, you wanna do some bondage? What is the first thing you need?

Is it this and I'd hold up some rope? And then, nope, not that, put it down. How about this? I'd hold up a pair of handcuffs. And then, nope, not that. What you need is this. And then I'd hold up a pair of paramedic scissors. I'd say the first thing you need to know

is how to get people out of things. Very quickly, if somebody starts to feel anxious, if they start to feel uncomfortable in any way, you've got to get them out of there first. So think ahead, you have to learn to think ahead, is that the sweet spot in BDSM is that place where your instincts, your physiological desires, and your skills all come together because they all have to be working together for it to really be a quality experience.

Right. Okay. That's good. That's good for starting out. Like, people who are, what if they're just basic, they're thinking, you know, okay, I got to bring up 50 shades of gray. I knew we were going there. I had to, I had to, and I thought on the way over, I don't want to, I am because that's

just, I think that would become part of the consciousness part It's been part of the the national discussion that women and I don't know so much that they want that It's more about means some might they might be thinking God I wish that my partner would do this. I don't know how to talk to him about it It's not that I want to dungeon. It's not that I want like where you guys have your house, which I'm sure is amazing It is just a little bit like maybe it's or uh... you know how do you communicate that uh... by asking you know i have one of my earlier partners that how do you how do you have such

tremendous success getting people to do this and get them in the people women who have a successful yes i am relentlessly uh... you know how do you get so many women to do this i said i ask them right you know it really is surprising when you put it to people as one intelligent person to another. Have you ever considered doing this and would you be interested?

You'd be surprised how many say, yeah, I've actually thought about it a few times. It's kind of wondered about it. Okay, well that's the curiosity in the beginning. Well, this is the thing, because I have a question for you, because you said that most women, most partners say yes.

Yes. I get turned down. I've gotten turned down three, four times in my life. No, come on, it's for you. No, but I was reading some about the story of O. And they said that the themes in this book depict the true nature of women. No, they do not. And so I want to say that that's what one of the people around the book, one of the critics. And so I'm asking, you've had so many women who are consensual. i want to say that that's what i want the people but we're on the book one of the critics

and do you so i'm but i'm asking you've had so many working central do you think not that so many women want to be in the bd sm but they want to be dominated i think some doing some don't i absolutely think it's i don't think it's gender related in fact you know gender politics forced my ass off as nothing to do with anything one of the things i really liked about the sm community when i first got into it was that it was the first place i ever was

where gender carry no behavioral expectations whatsoever you know that we had dominant men and submissive women we had dominant women and submissive men we had uh... dominant transvestites we had all kinds of i know i know that i don't know i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don't know that i don is quintessential. Well, there were those, there are those who want to believe that and I, you know, I reject those politics. Okay. In fact, I mean, I was wondering because I agree. I totally agree. I was wondering what you thought.

So what, so when you, do you remember when you first read the story of O? Yeah. Okay. I certainly do. I read it when I was about 15. I got it through the mail from Grove Press. Ye Barney Ross, his spirit is with us today. And I read it and I found it absolutely riveting and fascinating and you know couldn't put it down which of course

since it's only 200 pages long it or half put it down you can get it done it about a day and then at the end of it I threw it against the wall. It's like what? That's what we were leading up to. Right. I'm not going to it's no spoiler to tell you that has no and i can't possibly spoil the n for you because there isn't one uh... they do it basically this if you know the history of how it was written is never intended to be published so basically at some point the author kind of

just ran out of steam on it and it couldn't get the act of stage and so they have a kind of michael o'Donnell you and then they were all run over by truck kind of ending so it is really it's just really it the book has some great things about it and it has some things that are very frustrating the characters are not well developed the female characters are are better developed in the male characters and

that that's not saying much because the male characters are absolutely cardboard cutouts there's nothing there is nothing about the two men to whom o gives herself as a slave that would make any sense at all. Right. Why would she? To any rational person, what would make either of these guys attractive to that degree? Well, there probably was something, but bear in mind that the person who wrote that book

didn't much like BDSM. They didn't call it, they call it, they don't ask. It was kind of a challenge, right? It was like a love letter. She was in love with a guy who was into it. And she was not. And what she basically, they were both writers. And she said, well, I can't do the things that you like to do. But I can write the kind of book that you like to read. And so she wrote it for him as a birthday present,

read it to him. And then, being as he was an author of some repute, he moral and things being as they were in France at that time, he said, no, it must be published. And it was, she was like, but, but. And the next thing you do was published. It was published, right? Yes. Okay, so then what about Master of O?

So did you, how much did you change the characters and how much did you change the, it's from the male perspective? Yes. Because you felt the male characters were underdeveloped. I thought they were. And then you heard. They're hard born. Right, right.

I mean, I read it so long ago. So unappealing, you know, there was nothing about them that anyone would like much less wanted to do all the things that she did for them. So I wanted to provide some kind of a more believable example of a more complex kind of personality who happens to be dominant, like that kind of sexuality, and who would attract a high-powered, capable, accomplished woman of the type that O was in the original book. I think that O of all the characters in my book is the most similar to the original model than any of the others. The others

are all completely different. The guys are completely different. But there were certain things about O that were recognizable as a personality type that I would encounter later in life. You know, a lot of the people who prefer to play in the submissive role and prefer their sex to be in the submissive role are extremely high-powered, driven, ambitious, very, very orderly kinds of personalities with a clear plan for everything. That's the kind of person who really needs a vacation.

Exactly. They need an hour and a half vacation from that. You take care of it. I totally understand. Yep. They need to let go of the wheel for a minute so somebody else can drive. And that's basically what you get to do. So I really wanted that character, I wanted the character to be very, very clear.

Very clear that she was worried about. That this was what she was all about. That was what she was all about. In fact, she was all about it herself. She lived a fetishistic life, even when she was unpartner. It was just part of her identity. And then she met a guy who was kind of like that too, a hard-driving successful guy who was just called Los Angeles, right? Which has some similarities to Paris in 1953. It's a place of self-reinvention.

People come here to become somebody that they weren't before and there are a whole A lot of people out here doing so happening every day, right? Well in Paris in 1954 was kind of like that They'd had our rough 10 years or so before that and there were a lot of people who really wanted to kind of be somebody other than whoever they were before that so as France emerged as it had not really been before, as a center of popular culture, film, fashion, journalism, all kinds of stuff of that kind. And indeed, it's no accident that in both books, in Story of O and in Master of O, O is in my book, of course, she's a pornographic photographer.

But in the original, she was a fashion photographer, but for that time, you know, the connection was still there. Right. And there's an interesting sequence in the original where she does a photo shoot for fashion purposes and GCs, for the first time having had the experience herself, the fetishistic implications of fashion. Right, absolutely. That when she puts a ribbon choker around a model's neck, it might be a collar, you know that she sees this now with new eyes, right? So so how much did you did you read? Will you like did you read this to me again go back and forth or was more like you just took the basic because I I'm gonna fully admit that I've not read it yet because and I'm very upset about it

I'm gonna read it like tomorrow, which is why I'm hit Long you're not gonna read tomorrow tomorrow Okay, we look at download it though master of oh calm tomorrow, which is why I'm it's not just long you're not going to read tomorrow. Can we look at download it though master of O's come. Yeah, you can. That's it. Quick.

I don't feel so bad because I was at it's at no master of O. Com master of O. Com just go download it now because you got amazing reviews on it on your site and everything. And we're going to read a little excerpt and in a little bit.

But so how much did you did you change this like was it more like just going off the sort was it more modern day beat us and do? Was it like more modern day beat us? I'm do you think it's changed? Oh, I think it's changed a great deal I was also well one thing that I really disliked about the original book and it was not necessarily the author's fall There was something that was imposed and an introduction written by the guy who made her publish it You know, it was his dismissal of the idea that there was any physical pleasure for the submissive partner.

Exactly. That's what I was. It was all about giving it up for love that you suffered to love. You were a martyr to love. Oh boy. Nobody. That's just, I mean, right, because she was saying she has a discernible pleasure in this. Yes. She wants it. Absolutely.

She has it. You can say she has the discernible pleasure. Oh my God. That's what I mean, I read everything about, I mean, today I've been like obsessed every three pages. She has discernible pleasure her whole life is about that No, they get very hedonistic characters and they really enjoy themselves. Let me tell you nobody ever took a second whipping out of love How long did it know how long did it take you write the book one year exactly exactly like and what you're writing Sell is it every every day you sit nice. I am one of those you know You're discipline like that That isn't that it you're something people have to discipline themselves to write or like people have to discipline themselves to do

As in they should probably take up another hobby, right? That's right. If I were one of those people who found writing difficult. I do something else, right? So you've always thought it yeah, you like it. You enjoy it. You sit to you like a room that you sit in and yeah And it's yeah, it's actually my my desk is in our place based so I can look up and you know there it all is to remind me in case I've forgotten but really writing this was a lot of fun because I got to use a lot of bits and pieces of a lot of people I really knew from that and Nina she's in there yeah she's in there in a role that's what I did was like cast against type

she's in there playing a role that's really not much like her and I did that with lots against type. She's in there playing a role that's really not much like her and I did I did that with lots of people there There are some recognizable folks in there a people who really there's a recognizable people if you know who they are You'll recognize them and it's interesting that when some of them were asked to blurb the book there was a sort of Moment of discomfort when they said sort of familiar, but okay. I'll do it anyway. Is that me? Was that you I know you've had a lot of partners. Okay, when we come back, we're gonna hear from Nina. I've just got some words from our sponsors here. We want to keep this show free.

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Awesome. You've been in good vibes too. I know, right? If I hadn't been again, I've had not been exhibitionistic enough for porn, I would have gotten a job there. Yeah, I know. I just started when I was 18 and I just loved the idea of them all along. I love to, yeah, they're amazing. So go buy some toys today and we got some callers coming in, so that's my whole... Oh cool. Bring them on! So we've got the first call, hello Justin.

Hey. Hey Justin, how you doing? I'm doing great. Calling from Virginia tonight, how can I help you? You're on with them. Aren't you screened in a Harley and myself? We're all here to help you. All right. So I was hanging out with one of my ex-girlfriends today. And after the fact that I could just hear her, she tells me that she had contracted her piece from one of her ex-boyfriends after we broke up. Okay. And I didn't know if I could contract it from malcontact

or what I'd have to have a... Genital contact. I mean, if she was having an inflammation, but she has genital herpes, correct? Yeah. Okay. I mean, if she wasn't... The chance that you probably didn't contract it, if you didn't have sex with her, if you didn't have intercourse with her, you wouldn't get it just from kissing

her. No. But, you know, you, you have to take necessary measures if you obviously if you do have sex with her, but unless she was having, you know, cold sores or there was some kind of breakout in her mouth, I do don't run the risk. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I think you're good. Anything else Neenah, you guys want to add to that? Do you know what I mean? I think that's pretty straightforward, except for... Just, you know, look before you leap. Another reason to have sex with a light phone. Any broken skin, just do something else that night. Right.

It doesn't matter, even if it's quote unquote only a shaving bump, an open skin is an open skin, don't have sex with any... Exactly. Sores, cuts, abrasions, nicks, anything like that. Yeah, you should be investigating it every time. So that's what I said to you, Justin. No worries, I think you're fine.

All right, thank you, guys. Okay, sure, thanks so much for calling. Okay, so I'm ready for that at all. What, no, because it wasn't about your book. I know people just calling with questions and times. You know what happens, though? You know I can answer that question though. I know you could. I figured you know, hey.

I wanted to ask a question. Oh, go ahead. I understand. I asked a question. Ernest, when you meet people, yes, do you size them up immediately and say like, that guy's a bottom or a top or like some mis-sof? I mean, do you do try and like Emily in doing the show with her tonight? Yeah, what do you think about me and my sex partner? You think she wants to be in charge?

I think you're a switch. Really? Yep. Depending on your partner. Depending on your partner. I'm not a teller. Never time. I would let I've a partner that wanted me to be more dominant and I just I've never done it. I don't think it would be your natural inclination But I think if you could see that it actually was pleasing to the person you were doing it with and that you could acquire the necessary skills That to do it very easily. I think you'd enjoy it. It's on my list. Because let me tell you, if you're a giving person, that's what I always say. You're a giving person. I like to think that if you are that kind of dominant, the fact that it is obviously pleasing to your partner is reason enough to do it. Exactly.

You know, so yeah, so I would say that you would probably be able to. No, no, no, don't let him. He has King Dhar. There's a line in the book that I will let the people read, but I will both like looking at women, and he's 100% kinky. I'm 40% kinky, 40% poly, and 20% vanilla. Okay. So I'm a more, I have a wider palette of sex. But you got that pretty broken down too much.

Pretty much. Sex with other people. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Three thumbs, and then we have solo partners. need I need some vanilla on the side. Right. But we're not monogamous. That was a condition. Right. So he has to be there. It works. It works. It works. It works. It works. If that is your orientation. Exactly. You do. I look at a beautiful moon on the street that I know physically

the type that he would go for. Right. And he'll look at and go. Oh nice. Because he doesn't he he can tell the woman has that energy. The aura. Right. And he'll look at him and go, oh, nice, because he can tell the woman has that energy, the aura, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you could do have the King of the time. He is, he is King to honor. I'm like a puppy. Hi, negative people wear. Right.

And he's like, uh, her, and he's in your right. You know, and he nails it. And then you nail her. Maybe. Hopefully. I'll help. Right.

Right. I love that. I like playing the torture. See, so when we're, I'm a, again, I'm that. You guys, I like playing the tour. I like playing, see, so when we're, I'm a, again, I'm a, I'm a stem cell. So I adapt to my partner's energy. So when we're alone, I'm always playing from the submissive role,

and I really like it's very personal, romantic, and I like it. I like it's like a constant. It's always a romance novel cover, where she's, she's swooning and he's his big, bad self. It's like, oh, it's like he's being your mind. So the sex we have is always like that first time sex just taken away.

Oh my gosh. So how intense is it? Oh, it's intense. I'm a mystic. There's whipping, caning, beating, air quotes, all consensual. All consensual, right. This is not, this is hitting with implements

designed to hit bodies with. So leather whips, riding crops, retan canes, his hand sometimes, sometimes a loose fist. Let me tell you a butt is a lot tougher than a hand. You can pull her out for this. Absolutely. So I like, our BDSM is violence without anger and pain without fear.

So it is very, air quotes violent. He pushes me around, he hits me, he shows me against things, but it is like a dance quotes violent. He pushes me around. He hits me. He shows me against things, but it is like a dance, like an apostante. Have you ever been hurt? No, actually. One time you bruised me. I was just having him as such a space and he stopped before I wanted to. Usually I'm the one who said, I'm rarely that's enough of that. He's in 14 years, he's marked me more than an hour twice. So he, wow, so never any marks are bruises because I think I slept my ass once like four times that I had a bruise I was very

But also I also don't know if you know box his hands get tough enough. Yeah, yeah, you get tough You get iron butt cold iron butt. Oh, I am bad. Yeah, I mean there are squats at the gym and something Yeah, there are some women I've been with who you really I'm really way a lot of sure that the next and I said yeah and that you are Monday Monday Monday Monday's play day you offer sure she and an hour later clean the little no don't be so no it's can we talk about the jealousy thing here not no you're like yeah Monday's play day so you came home and told her about it and you're going to get it together oh the two of you okay if there was someone else you're yeah no no so so the way that we are when I first got with him the

condition of pond relationship was Non-monochomy because I dealt with that my first marriage. No, so not get out for it not get out for it And he that is not he's loyal. He is as a fierce he's fiercely in love with me But it's not for us. We don't not we do not need we don't need our sex to be always the same body as our romance Right now sex with him alone It's clear the best of the best absolutely But you know you know you know you're cut out for non-monogamy if the statement the more the more people I Fuck the more I love my partner makes sense to you. Yeah, anybody can be fun once or once in a while

But fun all the time that's a special person I can have both anybody once right who were you? Hey new body week, right, you know or four times a year yeah so that is just that's the chemist and I just I was just born without the jealousy gene I just don't know I do it's I had to feel mine to have the life I want he never had it right when people are jealous when they tell me I'm coming with jealous person I asked them this one question tell me one thing and all of human history, one good thing that's come about as a result of someone being jealous, I can't think of one myself.

I mean, I failed to see it as a productive aspect of anything about human nature. I never liked that. But I hear people who will make their part are a little bit jealous to get their part of attention. Yes. And so that's all they'll make guarding

and the make guarding bullshit. Right. And they're the difference between love and lust. And so that's all the make guarding and the make make guarding bullshit and I They're the difference between love and lust and so the the companionship and intimacy you have the long term partner is great To get my attention you don't have to go to all that for one right no just you know But so people saying people my love about being married to a fetishist is I Know that I want behavior be I will do behavior a and if I do a I'll know that if I want behavior B, I will do behavior A. And if I do A, I'll get B. If I want C, I'll do D. It's really simple. And you feel like all of your sexual needs are getting taken care of?

I am partly because we're not monogamous. Right, because you're bisexual. I'm bisexual. I do like having vanilla sex. I do like sometimes being a charger and he does not switch. He's a heterosexual not straight and does not switch. I'm bisexual. I do like having vanilla sex. I do like sometimes being a charger and he does not switch. He's a head, he's a head of sexual not straight and he does not switch. I'm a top heavy switch. You know, I don't need to beat boy but I'm not saying a light yet. Right. So how often are you guys with other people? Ideally, we would have, ideally we'd have one through some a month and solo date each a month. Yeah. So after 14 years, we still, we make room for sex once a week

and we we value that we put we've been re-oritized that instead of yes instead of movies instead of going to the museum and let me also say that we have this neck and i maybe come something that there's something work related in it but whatever it is uh... when we get down to doing it we become strangers to each other that's part of the appeal of it. A little PDF stuff.

Yeah, right. Is that I become, you know, I become the dominant partner, she becomes the submissive partner. Now we are different people than the people who were sitting in the living room. And we don't talk a lot during our sex. It's not like, some dominance is the least word. So I hate that.

He is more, he's using my body to help me go where I want to go. Right, and where do you want to go? I like feeling my partners. I like my partners to be their bad self, to be fully themselves. And so, I like to try to say you know that. I like to welcome that. I like to make it okay for that person

to step up into that space. And he's someone who is absolutely fine with who he is. No, I'm not your partner. So do you have intercord like a fuck after so after so after during me through a session. Okay Not all the same. No, but the basic tables the same so a basic fish this pornography set out He pours me a drink. I'm on a porn illustrated single single really twisted really twisted sick E.V.L. dark cartoons cartoon drawing strong Dr.Oui by and we're shoulders or does it?

No, it's not a real person. I don't worry about somebody being heard in fact I added a cartoon magazine This type and what we say no actual tunes were harmed in the making of these comments, right? So and so the setting up I said at the room there is going to be Loub and baby wipes and gloves and the vibrators already stung. Which vibrator? A magic one. Yeah. But you will be colored. You will be cut. I will wear, I wear collar, my collar, cuffs and high heels. Do you put them all on yourself? Yeah, I do. So what do you wear to wear nothing? He put the collar on me because

that's a romantic thing. Kisses it back of my neck and locks a collar on and then he puts on his riding boots and his little You know envelope cap made of leather we drink the drink. Yeah, you could last the stuff I like a single mop scotch, so I'm I'm good for one. I don't drink. I have a yeah, I have a limit of one drink Okay, and we're signed so but one once once the hat goes on and the porn comes out, then all the discipline is all conversation is about sex. So if I think about oh God that thing next week, that has to wait. The replace it. Which is a good tool. Is it the good? Yes. This really have to do this well requires focus and concentration. Right.

And so you can't really be thinking about next week while you're doing it and have a good time. Exactly. And I wish that most of the transfer that into just regular right but that's as we so what so for what we can so um so all the the sex and then because of the role structure um he may say you know would you like exact it's not really a question my answer is yes sir right you know but that doesn't mean she can't make suggestions. Would you find it amusing if I were to do such an example? So one thing what keeps it fresh is you learn how to speak in a way that gives me full agency without breaking the role.

This is the ultimate role play. So he's in charge and I'm, he's Fred and I'm Ginger. Well Ginger can communicate. So I can't say, hey Ernest, you know this guy's my back, but I can say would sir like to see. And if he says yes, then that's a yes. And he says no, drop it. And so, and so learn. So for me, the emotional practice of learning how not to argue within the scene, that took a minute. So the, what I like about, what I like about the role playing is that it forms very firm fences within which to roam. And so then we'll get out of the living room, walk back to the, I have

may have a bump plug in, but they put in a lute man. A bump plug do you like these days? Um, I, my favorite one died. Um, I don't even know the name. You're about. No, almost, but no. Um, the, the secret is to everything is permitted except modesty. So my job as a my job as a air quotes sex slave. Concentral the game. Right. Is that ludeness is I'm supposed to want to get some. My job is to be horny and intersect. So I get to I'm free. So if I walk her back from the from the living room, let's say to you on a place phase. No, I don't know my collar in. Yeah, my holder collar or I might have a holder arms behind her, and of course she's going to, you know,

something there are some kinds of dominance who really I don't know what their problem is, but they don't like any kind of of initiative on the part of their submissive partners and they're missing out. No, I don't have to get some. Perfect. Exactly. I've told her that her number one duty as a slave is to get some. Right. So if I happen to be, you know, standing behind her holding her arms and her hands are still available, she'll use them.

Right. Oh, well. Yeah, there you go. Well, my half end. Oh my gosh. And I will not find it. Okay. So in the back.

So, um, you said you put the up-upug in a lube manner and you didn't expand. What do you mean by that? Well, I'll sprawl my back on the couch and I'll lube it up and I'll lift my leg, hold my butt cheek up and watch it go in. I'll dab the lube off of the baby wipe and sit down. And harness is watching the soul. That's the whole product, which is... And that's pre-drink and pre-point.

So already it's like, and I've cleaned up my butt and there's a pre-flight checklist. How do you clean it out? I use a butt, I call a butt squeegee, but a bulb syringe. You don't, you do not need to do it in an animal. No, no, no, no, no, no, people have been asking a lot lately, so it's just quite hard and flush. A lot of high fiber diet and a lot of water, so you have rake, so that part of your body is happy and regular. And then rinsed out a few pieces that might be left and it's it fingers length or dicks length it's fine. Right. And then so the but the sex is we I'm as a kissic. I like being hit with things and so and what he does

and what order it's that's up to him. And you never know what's coming. That's the fun part. And no, I can't. I'm waiting. I don't really have an agenda. I usually go in there and see what seems like. Yeah. You know, some days it's a cane. Some don't really have an agenda. Usually go in there and see what it seems like. Yeah, some days it's a cane, some days it's a whip, some days it's a cane, then the whip, some days it's a horse, some days it's a suspension, some days it's being bounced

against the wall. I mean, and are you getting more and more turned out over here? Oh, for sure. He's a massively good conlingualist. Oh, so you're stopping and doing conlingualists? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Conlingualists. It's a little fucking, a little whipping, a little bondage. I like it. I little fucking a little whipping a little

I like a little A little bit of a little flash show a little fucking a little whipping a little kind of lingeth a little fucking And this is what I'm saying is that people would if you're just like vanilla, but you want to introduce a little role player How would you suggest that people? I would I would start with You can have you know a bowl with with roll so you, you know, often role play have to do with power dynamic. T-Turist did it in cop, and D-D, doctor, patient. So basically, role play, someone is regreened that you're taking the lead,

and regreened that I'm taking the follow. And that, within reason, I'm probably going to say yes, but you know what not to ask me so you don't get a no. So you're not gonna ask me. So that's the limit thing. So I know, so it's, the being good dominant is giving the right orders. And the right orders, the right orders are for

any of them. Or people to do what they want, they'll always, they'll be very obedient. So I like that idea to just pick you up. You're like, oh, I'm gonna go home and I'm just gonna become a nurse and he's gonna, no, pick it out of it. I like that. And then just try to go with it. You might laugh at first, but just start, just gonna become become a nurse and he's no no pick it up i like that and then go with it you might laugh at first but just

start to say just a wave of sex with like you kind of like having sex yeah but it's changing it up it's not arbitrary for us i mean if you are if you are i guess you guys are different i'm just talking about people who are real who are really drawn to bd sm sexuality and ds sexuality they're usually pretty much even people people who switch, are usually pretty much one way or the other. They prefer to be in one role or the other and generally are better at it. You do best the thing that you like best.

So this is the thing that I like best and generally, you know, listen, we start out with, we start out sometimes with some part, making out in the couch and heavy petting. Yes, you know, so, but also also he, but when we get, when we get in there sometimes, you know, I'll just, I'll have a writing crop under my arm and I'll have you get up on the bed and I'll, on the bondage bed and I'll give you a few wraps on the ass.

Would you ever feel like, no, I'm not really wanting right now? No, I'm in a period. If either one of us doesn't want to, we just don't do it. Don't do it at all. Okay, we, I'll tell you something. We have to have you read the, yeah. What you're going to say is that you really have to be in the mood to do this because it really requires some concentration. Yeah, absolutely.

You can't do it. Which is the best kind of things in life is when you are focusing in the moment. And one thing, let me tell you one thing about being a dominant guy that's sort of challenging is that you need to be able to keep a heart on while you're fiddling around with ropes and whips and stuff. So you have to get well, but you've got to focus on the sexual aspect of it. Your inner movie is saying everything I'm doing here is leading up to something that's going to feel really good. That's right. And that's that going.

You're good. And it's a mis-of, playing from this mis-of-roll, my job is to be in the eternal now. His job is three steps ahead These submit the dominant nice to be like just let it all go the dominant sense the agenda the submissive sets to tone the move You know, I'm I and and depending on the day some days I'm really strong meaning I really like I can take more beating the other day. I am generally massacred I like and that does not mean I like pain It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done. It's not being done pain. It's not pain. It's not pain. It's not being done right. It's Intensity. Hey guys. Yeah, speaking of pain. Uh, say for it. Yeah. Well, you guys use the same say for it over and over. We don't know something funny about that.

I have over the years had many partners with it to whom I have given say for words and I've never heard one used. I mean, you're good. No, no, no, people really very rarely go that far. The thing is, the public confusion about this is that it's about pain. No, it's not about pain, it's about pleasure. So when are you going to use your safe word when you're having fun? You know, for as long as it still feels good, you're not going to use it. Right, that's a good testament to your skills.

But I'll be right. You might say yellow when your foot's going to sleep. Yeah, right, something. Right, yellow green things things do happen. I mean, yeah, something turns out to be my job. My job as a submissive is not it's not being a doormat. It is a verb submit is a verb. And so it passivity is not welcome. So he says, Erna says discomfort should never distract from the torture. So if my foot to sleep, I'm all in my foot. I can't I don't care what you're doing to my vulva, right? So I can just I can say sir my foot. Yes, and the smart dominant will go one moment Please and we will read he'll get it to go fix that right that your job and you go and you get back to it Also, there is one thing I like to say is that if you know one of it to know one of us is to know one of us

We're all different right that's true too and and I'm a particular kind of dominant that's, you know, I see other kinds around. There's a certain sort, and I'm unfortunately, I think they've been influenced by popular media who believe that what they need to be is, you know, stern, mean, and not acting like they're having to be. It's not me. I've always got a big grin on my face. I'm having a good time. Do you think that people we learning from, they could learn from Astervo? A lot of you I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I say that my intentions here were not educational. Right. I didn't want to write that book. No, but it's just what I got. I'm not saying you can't, it's yeah. But I think that you've never seen this in a world. I think what you can learn from reading this book is something about the people,

something about the personalities who are drawn to this life. You'll learn a lot of technical stuff about what they do. Right. But I think that's what people want to know about psychology. They're confused by a lot. Well, I like about this book. There's no naive person. There's no standing for the innocent. Right. Which is different than the original. Did you watch Sopranos? Yes. The first episode, you're dropped into the world. Exactly. You're dropped into this world. I love it. Okay. We've only got a few more minutes. So let's let's read an excerpt from Master of O. Okay. This takes the beginning of the second chapter. O and Ray, Steven and Ray are half brothers.

O is Ray's partner for the evening. Ray has given O to Steven and O has accepted this challenge. He has left her to go change into a robe and expects to find her nude in the living room after he comes back. From the long bar of robes and dressing gowns, he continued today's theme with a heavy black silk turntable and azer. It's wide, quilted shoulder-pels and matching cuffs piped in red.

How many pairs of skull-emboided velvet slippers could one man wear in a lifetime? Stephen's own extravagance has made him cringe occasionally, but now it's not the time for introspection. Always expecting him to be his bad self. What most women want it from him. He lowered the lights and headed out into tonight's arena. As expected, he found Owen the living room, displayed as precisely as all the artifact that kept under glass, stripped to her red-sold pumps, stay-ups, the long gloves she's

and pulsally slipped back on, and the collar around her neck. Owen held on her high heels in the middle of the dragon rug. Her knees were wide apart, her hands still laced behind her head like the condemned, awaiting execution, shoulders squared, breast out, chin straight, eyes lowered. When Steven stopped and stared, a slight tremor washed over her, although of course she didn't turn her head to look at him, she was the one there to be looked at. Steven was perfectly rude about taking in the view, making her stand at attention, walking around her, looking high and low. Yes, there were surprises. Oh, could a rooster nibble to shade darker so the rings stood out

more, but they were far from inconspicuous. The only an inch and a half in diameter, there were wicked thick, agonizingly stretched from an initial 10 gauge to their current six. Plain stings with black hematite, captives bead closings, they clearly wanted to be grabbed, waited, tied, and made to hurt. Stephen took in the slender shoulders and spectacular natural teardrop breaths of the type, for which women in this town paid vast thumbs and still didn't get. O's belly, flat and cut from fanatical exercise, were perfectly sculpted pink lower lips,

the high tight buttocks and the long straight legs with slender ankles, all comprised of fine inventory and both of them knew it. Stephen could see O's pulse thumping in her carotids, it droppled a sweat trickled in each armpit. He was quite certain she was fripping elsewhere too, the tightening throbbing ball to under his sole robe was stood as apparent to the two of them. Stephen let her stay at attention as he plucked the half joint from the ass train fired up with a big giant lighter and hailing a big hit.

He approached Oat Leisure, his head reased in smoke. He seemed so accustomed to having whatever he wanted, absolutely devoid of shame or doubt. And she was alone with him at last. Nothing stood between him and what he wanted of her. He stopped him from the nose face, tracing her cheek with the fingertip. I love this moment. He said quietly, so full of promise. Hmm. I like it. So everyone's got to

reek. Okay. You got to get a master of O dot com. By your company book and come the first of July, there will be a paper bag version. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Okay. Well, I'm going to. Okay. Got it. Okay. So in Nina Hartley, we'll plug what your website the best one is at. The best one is at. And you can follow me on Twitter. We know what that comes. Nina.com. Just Nina? You got Nina.com and LA. Yeah, 20 years ago. Jesus, that was good.

She fought for it. Well, the one good thing my exes did for me. And if you want to follow me on Twitter at Ninaland, Disneyland only Ninaland. Okay, got it. Okay, thank you. Earn a screen. Thank you so much for being on the show. I feel like people on you guys got to come back as always.

You're always welcome on the show. Anderson, what up? Thanks for being with me tonight. Yeah, of course. I love you, mean it. Everyone follow me, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff, sex with Emily, and thanks so much for listening. Was it good for you? Email me, feedback at sexwithemily.com. I'm Emily from sexwithemily.com.

Crazy Girl Products carries unique, fair-moan-infused products that scientifically make you hotter and feel more confident. I love their new after-dark line, especially their lip-nip tingle. To find out what that means, go to CrazyGirlProtux.com, use coupon code Emily25 and get 25% off your purchase when you buy something at CrazyGirlProtux.com. Perhaps play a little game called just a tip. Just for a second, just to see how it feels. Hey, this is Jordan Harbinger, host of the Art of Charm Podcast, the number one dating and relationship advice podcast in iTunes.

I'm Emily Morris, host of the Sex with Emily Podcast, the number one sex and relationship podcast on iTunes and it's sexwithemily.com. And this is just the tip. You mentioned another tip about mutual masturbation. What exactly is that? I think a lot of people are Probably getting some interesting visuals here. I love mutual masturbation because first of all masturbation is also a form of sex But when you do with a partner it can be a great way to share intimacy and get some other sexual secrets So if you're masquerading and she's masturbating next to you You can see how she touches herself. Does she rub her clitoris and circles? Does she go up and down? Maybe she touches the outside of her clitoris? Maybe she uses her fingers or a vibrator.

It's just a great way to learn how your partner touches themselves so you can mimic some of those moves and know what turns them on. I think it's like, and it's fun and it's hot to watch your partner mass weight. I think it's hot and a lot of women do, men do, watching each other. Why not? What if it's a little awkward? It can be awkward at first. Maybe you're maybe you could help each other. Then she could watch you for a while, and then she could take over, and you could take over what she's doing,

and you can both just have manually stimulated orgasms together. Cool. Sounds like a plan. And it might seem awkward to people, but you've got to get through. You could also keep your eyes closed. It can be more comfortable to slip into your comfort zone.

I know part of it is watching them, but you don't have to leave your eyes open all time. So just kind of get into your rhythm and your groove. And sometimes the awkward things are the things that make us the most advanced us sexually. Sure. And I sure beg your name. Sure.

And I sure beg your name. Exactly. If you guys want to learn more from the art of charm about dating, relationships, and even networking for business, visit us at theartofcharmpodcast.com or check us out on iTunes and follow me on Twitter at theartofcharm. And check out the second Emily podcast at sexofele.com and on iTunes, if you want to have the best sexier life that is, also follow me on Twitter at sexwithemily. Buying a car can be such a stressful experience, but true car is changing car buying forever.

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