Sex With Emily - The Myth of Sex Addiction With Dr. David Ley

Episode Date: November 15, 2014

On tonight’s show, Emily has clinical psychologist Dr. David Ley in the studio to discuss his book “The Myth Of Sex Addiction” - Is it real? Or do  we live in a world addicted to addiction? Emily and Dr. Ley explore the difference between healthy and unhealthy sexual behavior, the urgency of sexual communication, the psychology of porn and the cryptic cuckold lifestyle.This Podcast will teach you how to approach sex in a healthy way. The secret to having an amazing sex life is all about balance - sometimes you need to have the deep sex talk and sometimes you just gotta bone like strangers. Emily & Dr. David Ley teach you how in the latest Sex With Emily episode! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Sex with Emily. Tonight's show is all about the psychology of porn, as well as sex and porn addiction. Are they real? These are just few of the topics my guest, Dr. David Lay, and I will discuss on this episode of Sex with Emily. Thanks for listening. First word from our sponsor.

You know, I'm obsessed with a lot of different kinds of gadgets and usually they're sex toys, but right now it is my no-no pro, because I've spent so much time and money on razors and waxing and all that other stuff that we try to do to remove hair. But the no no pro is the best way to remove unwanted hair with zero pain. No pain at all. And it's for men too. You know that hair on your neck and your back and you just want to get rid of it. Long neck hairs you don't know what to do. So with it your legs, your arms, your face, you will love how easy the NONO is to use NONO Pro and the weeks of long lasting results. Plus it comes with a hundred percent 60-day money-back guarantee and when you purchase it you'll get a $50

gift card to an award-winning skincare line. Go to NONONOemily.com that's NONONONOemily.com. Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Betrubized, they call them in a fight on day. Hey, Avaline, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute. The world's got a hair standard.

Oh my. The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common, Avaline? What do you mean, like laundry? It's shrink? Can we women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean like laundry? It's shrink? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I'm so proud.

Being bad feels pretty good. You know Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex relationships and everything in between. For more information, go to sexfamily.com or you can check out all of our podcasts, our blogs, our videos, all of our sex tips that will help you have better sex than relationships which is why I know you're listening to the show and who doesn't want that.

Raise your hand if you want a worse relationship or you want no sex. I mean some people are asexual and they don't want sex but we're not going to cover that tonight. I'm here with Anderson. sexual and they don't want sex, but we're not going to cover that tonight. I'm here with Anderson. What are we? What are Anderson's? This is our wonderful Thursday night show where we are actually streaming live on UStream, which is a whole new thing. So Thursday nights, we started a little late tonight because we did have technical difficulties

in the love of the studio. Well, the city is having technical difficulties. Oh, it's a city, not as our studio. Yeah, every like power outages. Oh, okay, so don't be mad that we started late because there was a power outage. We can't help that. But yeah, you can. Alam Edison.

Alam Edison. Absolutely. 839, 30 Pacific Center time. You can watch us live. And sometimes you can call in when we get the phones working. And it's a good time. You can also, I do two podcasts a week. You should subscribe on iTunes, which is really easy

because you'll never miss another show again. And it's been funny recently because Anderson, you're a podcaster as well yeah who's not exactly everyone's a goddamn podcast he says okay I started first but what I was um he host he hosts the film vault and the after-disaster which are two wonderful podcasts I started the film vault 2007 actually is when we first started doing it for for an audience yeah and before that we're doing it just for fun back in 2003 so okay what happens so you do you still win I did searching for sex in San Francisco on cable in 2003 that's TV that's okay so right around

the same time February for me how about you dude I don't forget remember February 8 2003 but as you can see is that we are all yeah why was it over that we all are everyone has to go out and podcast now but what I was gonna say is it's really easy it's funny because we do all podcast but there's so many people and all different ages men women who women who just are like, I want to listen to your show, but I don't know why I get it. It's in the internet. Yeah, exactly. And so I'll just tell you because my very best friend in San Francisco, Charlotte, she's like, always wants to listen. She's like, I'm so bummed. I don't know. I'm like, oh my God. Download either podcast one app, download stitcher. That's a great one. Or there's

an iTunes app. It's called podcast. It's free. These are all free apps. And you can easily, so easily, wherever you're just stream and listen to a podcast, anything you want. So, you know, NPR, I'm hoping you listen to me, but whatever it is, people don't know this. It's so easy. I know so many people are intimidated by technology and I'm one of them. I'm not good at technology at all, but the podcast, shh, don't let the bosses know that

they're not too good. But the, I'm the guy that walks in our room and nothing works. I mean, that's me nonstop But it don't know my bosses no that was Edison Well, it's tonight is Edison while we wish we had Tesla on our side, but it's easy for me It's easy for I'm I tell my mom I do it stupidly because I don't want to listen to my shows But I showed her right no, I show my mom too, and I just download I download these apps for everyone I'm like, oh, and then people like love it because they can't believe it. So anyway, that's an easy way to listen folks if you didn't know, but you're already

listening. So you're already a step ahead. A few announcements I have is the Sexual Health Expo. I'm really excited about this because it's January 17th and 18th in Los Angeles, and it's sexualhealthexpo.com, and it's going to be a two day conference. First of it's kind open to the public where it's going to be a two day conference, first of its kind, open to the public where there's going to be a top sex educators around the world speaking on all the topics you want to know about for better sex and relationships. And the latest and greatest products that I was talking about, they'll be on display,

I'm giving the keynote and I'm giving away free tickets. So if you want to go email me feedback at sexwithelm.com, each ticket actually goes for two people so you can bring your friend, your lover, and tell me why you want to go. And then I might give you a ticket. Also, we are looking for interns, per usual, not per usual, but every few months we get new interns. And so now is the time, and you can go to internchips.com, and that's where it's posted. And it's also on intern match, but we have to update it there as well.

That's where you like to fancy. And you can also follow me on Twitter, which is at Sex with Emily. And I do a live chat every Wednesday from 12, 30 to 1. And I answer all Pacific Standard. I answer all your questions. And yeah, that's what I got. And also your emails, I love, love, love hearing from you.

I never get enough emails, feedback at sexwithelmy.com because I answer your emails during the show. And then we let you know, which is a really good time. And I think that's all I went to a friend, so I went to a friend's book launch party last night. She launched a cookbook, my friend Gwen. And, uh, God, I want to say a name, but we have an internet. So the point is it's a cookbook, it's funny because it was a great party, amazing. But, you know, wherever I go, people are like, oh, it's a section. And it's funny just that everyone has quite the pulled me aside and asked questions.

And so last night, the question was about two people asking about penis's dysfunctioning in their relationship. And one woman in the head was with a delayed ejaculator and one woman was with a premature ejaculator. They were not friends. Do they suggest they trade for a weekend? Yeah, I'm like, hey, you guys might really want to do a swap here. But it's interesting because, you know, people don't know where to go for the answers and it was just, I'm always like

sequestered the whole time talking about sex. Do you get sick of it? You know what, it's funny, I really don't. Someone just asked me that and I really, I love what I do. I actually love my job and I love that it is actually a job now. Your friend with the cookbook, is it just a regular old cookbook? No, it's really good. It's based on all of her like family recipes and stuff and I want to tell you all of you.

But I, it wasn't, it's not, and nothing nothing to do sex. You actually have friends that just do regular things No, I cook and was calm. That's why they all pull me aside That's why they all pull me aside because they don't know what the hell to do with their sex lives But you know she can write a cookbook, but oh, and then it's called because now I got to give her okay, it is called God damn we have no internet. What are you doing honey suck Suckle Hillbook. See, I know it's gonna be somewhat sexual. Honey Suckle. Oh, you're right. It does sound sexual, but it's not at all.

It's in her family recipes. It's amazing. It's a really beautiful book. But it was just funny, because people just, that's what I'm saying. It's if people gravitate. They're like, hey, you know, what are these problems that everyone's having? And tonight we will be talking about some of those because I'm so excited for our guests. Dr. David Layhill be coming a little bit.

But he wrote a book and he talks a lot about porn. He's a clinical psychologist. He wrote two books about sexuality, addressing both male and female sexuality, and the book that we're gonna talk about, both of them tonight, and is one of the myth of porn. That's how I wanna do, do I have that right? Yes, you guys, the internet is just...

Trust yourself. The myth of sex addiction. I'm so sorry, David. It's called the myth of sex addiction which you know You know even on Anderson I love that every night we're getting calls people are like I'd be born I'm ready to do this and we don't want to be so quick on it. It's not my fault, man I'm addicted Exactly, so we're gonna be talking about the myth of is it does it really exists the myth of sex addiction?

And he also wrote a book called insatiable wives We're gonna get to that. There's so many fun topics talk about tonight. I sent you a text earlier tonight when I was at dinner asking who the guest was. And when you told me I was quite excited. It's fun. I'm just gonna be fun. Really? Really? Some girl that put like nine things in her ass at once. Fantastic. We are we're on a porn star highway this right now because we're going to release smart interesting people like David lay on the show. But first I also we have a little bit sex in the news. Love the sex in the news. I know it's so good a man gets robbed by online date after romantic dinner at Arby's That's not a thing. No, it is a thing

Exactly, you can't right you can't have an oxy right exactly. You can't have a romantic dinner at Arby So ever since catfish came out a lot of people are suspicious the online dating bait and switch what they don't think about is Meeting someone who steals your wallet. That's exactly what happened to 23 year old Jeffrey Mack, who took his online match, 20 year old Heather Dureen, whatever, to an Arby's in North Plains, Oregon, for their first date. Having already stolen his heart, Mack

shelt out $3. I think that's three sandwiches. $3.00 to buy her a milkshake. Unfortunately, as a couple drove up to the window, get changed from the clerk. That's when she grabbed the money and ran. It might seem upon first three that the woman was insulted by Max choice of venue.

We think most ladies would agree that Arby's drive through might not be the most romantic venue for her first date. I actually do it so funny, and this is so random. My first date was actually added Arby's when I was like, I remember our parents drove us and I was like, you know, maybe like 10 or 11 and we went to Arby's. That's very cute. That's fresh.

That's fresh. Okay. So you think you would be, she robbed him because she's like, F.U. I don't want roast beef, milkshake, but that's not true. He called the police and they tracked her back to her minivan and you know what you find in a minivan mass well they found his wallet along with hypodermic needles two jars of hash oil marijuana pipes a scale and a pill bottle of material suspected to be met the end of the means

hey i was right she was arrested how much she get to do you say how much she she rob this guy for now if he's an arby's guy would think he probably had maybe tops fifteen bucks fifteen twenty bucks maybe yeah the tautica are gonna rob i go for an Arby's guy, I would think he probably had maybe tops 15 bucks. 15 20 bucks. Maybe. Yeah, that's not the guy you're going to rob. I go for that.

You don't hit the Arby's guy. You hit the Bruce Chris guy. Exactly. Right. The guy who's got even that would be about me though. Like, don't take it. This is so bad. I'm not going to don't hit anybody, but I was just going to say something really bad

about chains and I'm not going to. Uh-huh. Go ahead. No, I for it. No, it's like Bruce. No, Bruce Chris. Are they a sponsor? Let's go. I'm just not into chains like Olive Garden. I know. I hate when you go out of like some cities It's that's your only you know if you're out of town though, and you're like in a new place don't go to a chain

I then you feel like you're in your backyard. Yeah, but it's another option is I know more and more so because all these guys own everything exactly So I'm not gonna say anything bad at all, but I'm gonna welcome David lay Hello, David. Hi, thanks for having me. It's good to have you, Mike Nearface. I'm so glad you're here, because our next we're going to get into all your stuff in a minute, but my next section of the new story, I thought that you would have some comments on. Exciting? Yeah, very exciting. It's going to bring you right in here, throw you in. Okay, so I was going to read the Arbyby story again that we already read that is

you as Okay, women with male friends have more sex Just study they came out. Mm-hmm Well, ladies it turns out having a lot of guy friends isn't just good for drinking beer on Thursday nights and playing video games A new study from Oakland University found that women with a lot of men in their life, like friends or co-workers, have more sex with their boyfriends compared with couples in which the female partner has fewer male influences. Researchers came to the conclusion they studied 400 men in committed relationships, and the men who reported their girlfriend is having lots of male attention from social and professional circles and who felt that other men found the partner's attractive were associated

with having more sex with their girlfriends. So it's interesting research, but one of the things I'll say is that the causality probably goes the other way. Women that have higher libido already tend to have more male friends. They tend to get along better with men as opposed to women. Because women oftentimes try to suppress the sexuality of other women. Women with high libido are kind of a threat to that. So women that like sex about as much as guys

who usually get called an infomeraniacs tend to get along better with guys. Right, now we're just called a good time, our wing girl. That's right. But it's funny, yeah, that's a really good point. And the thing is I do have a lot of guy friends, but I also have a lot of female friends. I'm a girl's girl and a guy's girl.

But you're right, that would make more sense. But also, this is what related to you, the researchers, they all think that this is because of sperm competition, which is what you talk a lot about. Also, if you don't already know, or I was reading some of your sperm competition, if you don't already know, the male sperm is very competitive.

In fact, if sperm from two different males end up inside the same female, the little guys will actually fight each other to the death in order to fertilize it first. So, this is a biological desire to fight off other sperm translates to dating world as a psychological desire to fight off other men, known as sperm competition in psychology, which goes back to biology in the beginning of time, right, when they talk about... Yeah, part of the idea is that women and men have been kind of fighting a cold war over sex and conception for thousands or millions of years.

Both genders trying to control which one controls conception, which one controls who makes the baby. So that the shape of the penis actually works as a suction pump to suck out the semen of another man if it's present. Whereas female orgasm, one of the functions of female orgasm may be as a way to exert control over which man's sperm is more likely to cause conception. Right, exactly.

And I always tell guys, I'm like, that is why your penis is shaped the way it is to pull. Did you know this, Anderson? Yeah, I heard this once before, and I was startled then. I think it was from, I think I mentioned on the show. I'm sorry. People think I mentioned on show. People know and believes it. And when women are ovulating, they're more likely to cheat

and they're more likely to have orgasms with the men they cheat with as opposed to the men they're married to. Sorry guys. Right, and we can't help it, it's our biology. But the thing that remind me of you is that if a man is watching porn, he'll become more roused and will release more sperm when he want into a tissue, of course. When he watches two men having sex with one man, this is the same thing. You know, this is one of these things that we've learned about sexuality from porn.

And people have a hard time with that, but we are learning about the way sex actually works as opposed to the way we wanted to work through pornography, through the free market economy of pornography, where people buy what they actually want and what turns them on. Makers of pornography found out that guys wanted to watch more porn that had multiple guys in a single woman. Now, the universal male fantasy is two women and a man. Overwhelmingly, when you ask men, what's your primary fantasy, they say I want to have a threesome with two women. So you would think that the internet would be filled with that kind of pornography because

most pornography on the internet is made for men. But in fact, is the reverse. And what we have found is exactly that, that not only do men ejaculate harder and that their ejaculate contains more sperm when they watch pornography that has multiple men and a single woman, but they get aroused again sooner with the idea that they can, you know, they can keep going. So think about it. If you're making pornography, you make more money off that pornography because the guys stay longer and come back. Right. Again and again. But guys don't know this. They're not thinking that that's what they're why they're talking to. I mean, they're not thinking that that's why. And I always thought that men didn't want to look at other penises. Oftentimes when they're watching porn, they're like, I don't

want to see another penis because I can I know they do because I talk about all the time but my first initial thing was they don't want to see other penises around. And guys look at women's faces in porn frankly more than women do. Wait guys look at what do you mean when women are watching porn they don't look at the women's faces. When when guys are watching pornography they more frequently look at the women's faces. When guys are watching pornography, they more frequently look at the woman's face as opposed to what women look at when they watch pornography,

which is more frequently the genitalia. Right, why do they look at the face? Because women are men are looking for those attractive females, men are looking for those qualities in a woman that they find sexy and appealing. and guys start with the face. They do but then do they work the way. Okay so initially or the entire time their eyes are more drawn towards the face because I think they'd be looking at the penis going in and out. More consistently over time as a guy watches a porn they're looking back at

the woman's face. That's nice. Now what about doing sex? They're not looking afraid. How come during intercourse guys the woman's face. That's nice. What about doing sex? They're not looking for you. How come during intercourse guys are looking for you face? They want the lights off and they're thinking about their, you know, what's the lights on right there? No guys want the lights on. I never want to see them. I'm having the lights on makes it a little hard to watch TV.

You can see the TV in the screen better. So why don't guys look at your face because they're embarrassed during, I feel like most men do not want to look at your face the whole time having sex. Well, it's really intense and then you start to worry are you making a strange face? Are you making the goofy face? Is she gonna start laughing at you? It's easier to stare off in the distance. That's true It is true, but I like that. I mean, I'm not the chick who's like look at me, you know, maybe ever look at me I got a quick question for David. Yeah, so I got I got this is a real story and I'm not joking joking I got some friends who are trying to pregnant. It's not me. I sort of got it. And he's got like a low sperm count a little bit. So could the doctor with your findings? Could

the doctor theoretically prescribe him to watch Gang Bang porn while banging his wife? Would that possibly get the number up? You know, even more so, you get with the guy's wife and you convince the wife to pretend that she's cheating and Then the guy so long as they don't get in a fight and get divorced Then the guy sperm count is more likely to go up because when a guy believes that his wife or female mate has been Unfatel. He is more likely to all of these things his sperm is more more likely to jump up and go, hey, we got to get in there. What about me? That's right. Man, this is our field. We've got to get in. We've got to take over. And so it is that sperm competition that actually can increase conception. The wife, the wife shouldn't cheat. But if he thinks that she could have, he's

more likely to get more bold and more boys in the field. How about real playing it, just like? You know, when I wrote my first book about couples that basically do this, couples that play with these issues of fidelity. Incessional wife. Yeah. And some of the couples I interviewed, they would go to a bar and the wife and husband would pretend they didn't know each other.

The wife would sit at the bar and guys would hit on her. And then at the end of the night, the husband would walk up, hit on her and swoop her away. Like he was the king. He was the guy who won. And he'd take his wife home and they'd fuck like strangers. Right. And it's hot. This is what I tried to explain to couples, even couples who aren't trying to have a baby.

In general, a role-playing can be how they think, I can never do that. I've been with my wife for 10 years, but just get into the moment and even if you laugh a little, you know, whatever, you'll get through it and you might go home and have rocking sex and get pregnant. That's really interesting. Anderson, you got to tell your friend that this, why aren't you just like helping women get pregnant?

I would think not personally, but you're married, but I would think that that would be amazing. But what about though, just watching the porn though with men too? Turn to it. And why can't, why don't more guys, just watching the porn that with men too, if they're into it? And why can't, why don't more guys wanna have the actual, I get it, why they don't, I'm like, why can't I have more threesomes with two guys then?

I get it, they're not, they're not. Conscious of it psychologically. But it's an interesting, there's an interesting piece there because while 70 to 90% of guys will endorse a fantasy of having a threesome with two women, fewer than six to five percent of men actually have a three-some-two women. So it is a message that people can have a very powerful sexual fantasy and yet never act on it. Right. Most people, a lot of people have, and people are so ashamed of

their fantasies and it doesn't mean that you have more act on it. Our minds are very active and... 90% of people never share their sexual fantasies and it doesn't mean that you have more an act on our minds are very active and 90% of people never share their sexual fantasies even with their husband or wife which is really sad. I think so too. I think so too because I always say that's a really key is communication to everything to better sex to better relationship and it just amazes me how many couples just they and they might even want to they don't even know how to start and so I try to just teach that language of how you even just start. How do you, you know, you've been with someone for a while, obviously, as we know sex sometimes

isn't a problem at the beginning, isn't usually a problem at the beginning. It's amazing at the beginning. But then when it becomes a problem, what we never had before and people are just so afraid of it. So I'll say communication is a lubrication. I think even at the beginning of a relationship, those sex can be intimidating. The first time a man and a woman have sex, a woman is typically worried about what her body looks like,

and a man is worried about whether or not he will be able to satisfy her, whether or not he will be skilled. And so one reason Emily, I think that guys might have trouble looking at a woman, as you say, is because we've got things going on in our head and we're worried about We're worried about staying erect. We're worried about staying erect for long enough We're worried about you know

Are we going to be able to have an orgasm? We're worried about all these things and That worry can sometimes paralyze us and sabotage the whole process. It's so absolutely the first I said to the first few times, you're with someone. Absolutely. And sometimes, you know, ongoing. So these are great. David, you're great.

I'm so glad you're here. So Dr. David Leid's a little intro here. Clinical psychologist, and he's the author of two books about sexuality, dressing male and female sexuality, and our society's tendency to treat sexual issues with fear and panic, which we do. He's an advocate for a non-pathologizing approach to sexual

addiction, sexual education and treatment. And so we first met, it's funny because I was thinking like, okay, I said actually today in my office I said, I think he was speaking at my school when we first met and you were when I was in my sex school. The institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. Did you go to school there as well? No, no, you know, it's funny. I am a very traditionally trained clinical psychologist. I'm in practice. Well, I'm in practice. I run a large agency. We do lots of substance abuse treatment and mental illness treatment.

But I've always had an interest in working with sexuality. I used to work with sex offenders. But over time, people would refer more and more patients to me just because of alternative sexuality. You know, I got, I had the choice with the last name, Lay, I could either become a sex doctor or a politician who was involved in a sex scandal. Anthony Weiner had already done so well with that that I decided sex doctor was better. But over the years, I've gotten that name of the sex doctor. You know, I was working with a probation system in Texas one time and probation officers brought me this envelope and it was all wrapped up in evidence tape.

And they said, Dr. Laban, you need you to go through this. So what had happened was that a kid was breaking into an extra neighbor's house during the day and he was downloading porn and printing it all out on their color printer. Now, if it had been in my computer, what I would have been upset about was the ink. Oh my God. It's this first thing I thought. Holy shit. That's right's exactly.

So I had to sit down and go through this porn with the lights off in the door locked very carefully for hours to make sure there was nothing deviant in there. Right. Fun job. But that kind of started me on this career. I was going to ask you how you got started on this. OK.

That sort of started me along this way of being the guy who would be brought in to say, well, you know, this might be uncommon kind of sexual behavior, but it's not unhealthy. Right. Exactly. Everyone wants to know that's we're going to get into tonight because everyone wants to know, am I normal? Am I unhealthy? Do I have an addiction? But this is the funny story I was going to say, it's Anderson. I think we appreciate it, except for I think you had ways that you said to me, is that we met at class, right? And you said, yeah, you had ADD. You were the one with ADD in the background, and it's the grandling in the background.

Which is, it was an obvious, no, you're not, no, I love it. I totally have ADD. It's very obvious to everyone who knows me, but it was funny that you were just speaking in front of the class with like 30 people in the room, and I'm in the back and you're like, she is ADD. Which I thought was funny. And so I'm glad that we finally made this happen.

So, okay, your book, The Myth of Sex Addiction. It's controversial. And you say that sex addiction isn't real. I think that it is a lot of things. It is an expression of our society's fear of sex. It is a tendency that we've had for hundreds of years to diagnose and pathologize people who like sex more than we think they should. Here's another interesting thing, though, is that the idea of sex addiction came into

our society and into our kind of medical lingo in the early 80s when two things happened. One, when we switched as a society and we no longer viewed masculinity and men as the norm. The feminist revolution started to change things and no longer could we allow men to be living under separate sexual rules. Now the second thing that happened at the same time was that AIDS came in and all of a sudden unrestrained male sexuality, especially unrestrained male homosexual behavior, could result in death. And so we had Oprah talking about the down low phenomenon and husbands that were having secret gay sex and bringing AIDS home to their unsuspecting poor naive trusting lives. And people got afraid of sex and people, people started saying that guys who had too much

sex were addicted to sex that sex was like a disease, sex was like a drug and like alcohol. You know, Bill Clinton had one blowjob in the White House. Maybe more than that. Maybe, maybe more than that. Maybe a few more than that. One dog invented. But got called a sex addict. Now, John Kennedy had sex all through the White House around the world. John F. Kennedy once said to another foreign country's president, if he didn't have sex

with a different woman every day, he got headaches. But nobody called John F. Kennedy a sex addict. There was a TMZ then. We couldn't document it. Yeah, well, but also the media was more interested in like real stories, kind of like the Cuban Missile Crisis. Right, exactly. There was other things going on.

As opposed to who was having blow jobs. Right. And now we're obsessed with sex. And now we're obsessed with sex. And everywhere. Because it is everywhere now. We're scared for our children who are learning about sex through porn. Because the kids already haven't been learning about it for decades.

There's not great sex education in schools, but now there's porn. And we all know intuitively that when we're turned on, we're tempted to do stupid stuff. They did this amazing study a few years back, a guy named Dan Arieli, who's a neuro-economist at Harvard, did this study, where they sent laptops wrapped in plastic, home with college students, and had the college students jerk off while they were looking at porn and then while they're watching the porn they would ask them questions like would you do this would you do that well guess what it turns out when people are turned on there more likely to do stupid stuff like have sex with people they don't know or use have sex without using a condom they might engage in risky kinds of behavior like spanking and things like that, all when they're turned on. Because that is the way that sex works. It really does affect our judgment and it affects the decisions we make because mother nature and evolution wants us to have sex whenever we can.

Now that doesn't make sex a bad thing, that doesn't make sex a drug or an alcohol that's affecting our brain. It simply means that making bad decisions sometimes when we're turned on is human. We can be responsible about that. We can learn about it without calling sex a disease. That's okay. That's interesting. We're going to come right back to that. And my guest is David Lay.

You can find him on Twitter at David Lay, L-E-Y, or at Facebook.com-david.lay.phd. But it's actually Dr. David Lay. That's what I say. Oh, at Twitter. Oh, I just had David Lay. Sorry. Okay, it's at Dr. David Lay, L-E-Y, on Twitter. And then Facebook.com-david.lay.phd. Sure. Okay, so first I have to give a shout out to the lovely people at Good Vibrations. One of the reasons you're able to listen to us for free, Toys a Week, is because of the incredible people at GoodVibes.com because they carry

all the very best sex toy brands that I talk to you about all the time, all the toys that I just love, love, love. Like right now I'm sort of obsessed with the Vibratex girls. They're these cute little literal vibrators that come in little leather pouches and they make a great gift for your partner or just for yourself and they're great user-in-sex and of course whatever you want and the dolly is great for g-spot simulation. Also they sell the most orgasmic vibrator of all times the magic one. So just go to my site, sexwithelary.com and you click on the Good Vibes banner and when you click on that you'll see all you'll see a store there. It's my store of all the toys that I love and you know I've tried them all. So you can use coupon code gvmly20 for 20% off. So go to sexmly.com,

click on Good Vibes, coupon code gvmly20 and you will be well in your way to good times. Also, the flashlight. You want the flashlight David? Tell me about the flashlight you want the flashlight David tell me about the flashlight the flashlight the flashlight You know the flashlight I know the flashlight that you use in the dark when you're alone and lonely No, not only when you're alone They are just when you know because we speaking of good vibes women have so many toys to choose from men It is sad isn't it there You know, I love places like goodibes and all of these other feminist queer own stores that are really reclaiming sexuality. And there are so many exciting wonderful toys

for women and the toys for guys kind of suck. That's why the flashlight's amazing. It's the number one sex toy for men and probably the only one you want. It's a male masturbation sleeve that like simulates the sensations of real sex. And so you have other options just using your hand. And from every guy I know, if you wanted to tell me about it, they said it feels amazing. And the flashlight was engineered to look and feel like the real deal, many people think it even feels better than sex.

And it's made from silicone because we invented by NASA. You know, humans do this amazing wonderful thing where any new technology we find a way to make make it sexy right which is so awesome We are so creative. Yes Yeah, so the plus I'd shaman stamina training you it also helps you practice lasting longer Becoming a better lover and you you will lover and you'll experience some of the best most mind-blowing orgasms of your life It's body safe. You can use it over and over again and it provides a variety You know men they weren't experiment women we experiment, we should all be expanding our sexuality, right?

So check it out. Here's deal though. For my wonderful listeners, if you go to my website, you click on the flashlight banner. So go to sucka the Emmy.com. They're giving everybody a bottle of the flush loob, which is award-winning when you buy a flashlight. So do that now. Go to my website. Click on the flashlight banner and use coupon code Emily when you check out and you'll get their amazing word-winning lube. I love lube. Hi, okay, David. So I took a tour of kink.com of San Francisco one time and my wife and I were together taking tour of the place and the thing that was most amazing, the thing that I will never forget were the 50 gallon drums of lube and I'm not

even kidding with these pump and and that was their answer they said you know you can never have enough lube. I always say you can never be too rich to thin or have enough lube. I know that thing that rich and thin. I'm like oh lube too. I love lube. I just feel like people don't realize that how much it enhances. Okay so back to addiction, sex addiction because I could go off with my TV. You get addicted to lube. Can you? No, so you're saying it's very different. It's very different. People say, what do you mean? Like I, it's really if sex love addicts anonymous, they have alcohol,

a they have, you know, narcotics a week. So, you know, you're saying that it's really, you talk about the addiction myth actually. So, you know, if we're addicted to anything, it's using the word addiction. Because we Because we can say we're addicted to chapstick, we're addicted, you know, Harry Potter. When the last Harry Potter book came out, people said, oh, I was addicted to Harry Potter and I went through withdrawal because there was no more Harry Potter to read. The thing is, we're using the word addiction in a way that is kind of become meaningless. I think it's important that we pay attention to that.

The modern psychiatry and substance abuse treatment is using the word addiction very little anymore because it has become too vague and nebulous. You know, there's even a question as to whether or not marijuana, for instance, is actually addictive. Can it generate long-term dependence kind of problems? Maybe. But if it is the addiction, there is working very different from, like for instance,

addiction to cocaine or heroin. So as we learn more, we are becoming more subtle and more nuanced in the way we think about this. The problem with sex, and when we apply that, to when we apply addiction to sex, is that sex is normal, sex is healthy. And there is absolutely no distinction between people that have lots of sex and when somebody is having, quote, too

much sex. You know, Kinsey, the famous sex researcher said it best, I think. And he said, a nymphomaniac or a sex addict in today's world is somebody who has more sex than the therapist. So if you have more sex than me, then you are automatically addicted to sex. But if you have the same amount of sex as I do, then you're perfectly normal.

He said the same kind of thing about the penis size. He said that the average penis size is always half an inch shorter than the main researcher. Right. We are, our science is affected by humanity, but but psychology is as well. And we are applying cultural social norms to sex. And unfortunately, most of the problems that people have related to sex, and I am not I'm not stupid. I know that people get in trouble for having sex. Absolutely. And I know people make bad decisions about sex.

And I know people can get seduced into getting kind of carried away. But all of those things can be explained by a lot of other issues, including one, the effect of sex, but two, the effect of other major mental health conditions that are often times going untreated because people look and say, oh, it's sex that is the problem. But unfortunately, by doing so, we end up ignoring other real issues like mismatch libido. And lots of couples across the course of a relationship will have times when one wants more sex than the other one. And in today's world, the person who wants more sex, it doesn't matter how little sex they actually want, if they want more sex in their partner, is automatically called a sex addict.

Right. Well, yeah, but would if they want more sex and they happen to cheat on their partner and do other, they're, they're surfing porn so much that they can't stop and they have, you know, pain and. And then they say, oh my god, it's not my fault. I made stupid selfish decisions, but it's because I'm addicted. And it's become this way to avoid responsibility. Well, okay, so what would you say the difference between a healthy sexual appetite and when does it cross the line? Ultimately, it all depends on context. It depends upon, for instance, the relationship and how somebody has been able to negotiate their healthy sexual appetite within their relationship,

within their life. There are swingers out there who have more sex than any of us all put together, and they have made it work within their life. Because they've looked at it, they've looked at themselves, and they've made responsible, ethical, kinds of thoughtful decisions. Unfortunately, I think that lots of times we end up, people get in trouble, we blame the sex,

but really it comes down to poor communication, selfishness, ego-centrism, and lack of respect for other people. Yeah, I think you're right, and I think it's so interesting that you bring up swingers and people in alternative relationships because I say this all the time and it's people don't get it like, how could those people be in healthy or light's so interesting that you bring up swingers and people in all alternative relationships because I say at this all the time, and people don't get it like, how could those people be in healthy or light? Do you really know any happy swingers? Do you know any happy polyamorous couples? And I say, yeah, I actually do

because they have fierce communication. They talk about everything, they have boundaries. And you know, yes, they have just, they have how, how can they get over jealousy? It's like, you know, you learn to transcend, you learn to talk about, you might still feel jealousy, but then you learn how to deal with it and communicate it. So communicate with it.

I mean, sure, there's unhappy singers and there's unhappy humanoid couples, but there are some really good models of them being just fiercely open and they talk about all their sexual needs and desires. And after I wrote my first book and my first book, Inseical Wife, it's about, it's about what's about cuckolds and hot wife couples, which are couples where the wife is going off and having lots of sex with men other than the husband. Often, the husband is monogamous, but he's living bicariously through his wife's sexuality and really encouraging her to expand her sexuality to include other men.

Those couples have the most amazing communication skills. The ones who are able to make this work. It is a tough life to negotiate, but their ability to talk about this stuff gives them the ability to talk about anything. And I talk, I joked about taking some of these folks around like a traveling road show. Really? To do a talk for Vanilla and mon monogamous couples not about how to have kinky sex but just about how to talk to each other.

Exactly. So what do you think? Well, okay, so what do you, I want to go back to the cuckolding in a minute because it's fascinating, but I mean I'm always telling you just got you know talk about your fantasies. But do you have any other skills when you work with couples and individuals like how do you tell them to what would you think that they would learn? Let's say we had a cuckolding couple right here. and and what is it they just you know Obviously, it's not always smooth sailing the beginning But it's that they talk about every third desires what they want how they're feeling that made me feel uncomfortable when you were banging the neighbor

Even though I thought it would make me feel better. Is that I mean how would you even get what's your tips for giving couples just to really start if they've never talked about sex You've got to first do a personal inventory and you've got to identify What your needs and desires are. What are the things that turn you on? What are the things you're looking for? Then you've got to be able to communicate those to your partner, but you've at the same time got to have respect for your partner's needs as well.

And I think that unfortunately is one of the things that can be tough because you have to be self-aware and at the same time willing to give some of that stuff up and compromise and negotiate within the boundaries that you and your partner have put together. Right. And it's the kind of conversation you should start having, you know, early on. People wait off another married and they realize, oh, he wants this and she wants that doesn't work. Yeah, you know, early on, people wait off another married and they realize, oh, he wants this and she wants that doesn't work. Yeah, you know, or a change over time. I think I think we set people up. You know, I think when we fall in love, you know, we think, as you said, the honeymoon

effect, that first six months to two years, all we want to do is fuck like rabbits. And we can't get enough of each other. We think it's going gonna be like that forever. But unfortunately, our bodies change, our minds change, the way that love works and our body changes. And we start having to move into a little more mature, sophisticated kind of sexuality with our partner. We need to prepare for that,

but we don't set people up for that. We don't tell people to have these conversations. Unfortunately, and I think that if we did, people would be better prepared. But you can always catch up. I have a friend who her entire career is treating Mormon couples and helping them to learn about sexuality, to negotiate sexuality and sexual desires within their their relationship because they didn't grow up learning that. We didn't, but people here didn't either. Absolutely. My daughter went to an abstinence only sex education class and the students were coming up to her after class and asking

her questions because they knew she was my daughter. Right exactly. Oh my guess what age did you start talking to your daughter about sex? How old is she now? Well, I'm going to get deep, deep, deep shit for talking about this. No, but I think. Well, I picked her up one day at daycare, and the teachers came up to me and they said,

you know, we need to talk to you, Dr. Lay, and I said, okay, and they said, your daughter's running around saying to everybody, everybody that walked in the door Girls have vaginas and boys had penises and I was like well, what's the problem? Reprenunciation, you know, it should be vagina actually should be Volvo over But people react with that kind of fear you know, I think healthy conversations with children should be developmentally appropriate I think healthy conversations with children should be developmentally appropriate throughout their lives.

And if they started asking questions early, you got to just say, wait until you're old, it's an adult conversation. Do you think that they should, what if they started asking it five or six? Right. A famous surgeon general in the United States actually said, what if we, what if we talk kids about sex, the, the, what if we talk kids about swimming the same way we teach them about sex and would we be surprised that when they were old enough to go swimming they all drowned. Right, exactly. No, it's a great. We keep things secret and then we

throw them out to the wolves and then we're surprised when there's pregnancy and STDs and bad decisions. Exactly. They just don't know. I just feel like there needs to be, I've just been thinking, this is having like three nieces and my family so like, oh we can't talk nieces and my family's still like, oh, we can't talk about it. Emily, it's annoying. But okay, so I want to go back, but first of all, the Cuckolding.

So that's so in your book, Initiable Wise, Women Who Stray and the Men Who Love Them. You can buy it at Amazon. So first, explain Cuckolding, people who don't know what that is. Really, you just kind of covered it. But many want to, there's so many different layers to it. But it's typical. There are.

Sometimes it is an aspect of BDSM and has humiliation kind of components. Sometimes it is more simply an offshoot of kind of swinging where the husband is monogamous and the wife is not. It comes in lots and lots of different flavors, but it is a very old kind of behavior that we have suppressed. If you remember the movie, Indicent Proposal, where Robert Redford and Demi Moore and Woody Harrelson, Robert Redford offers a million bucks to sleep with Demi Moore, and Woody Harrelson's the husband and lets it happen. But then the morality play of the movie is depicting, look, this ends your marriage, this ends your communication,

that jealousy takes over after you do this, it can't work. But people have been doing this for thousands of years, and my book in Seychelles was, talks about some of that history of it, showing that this thing that we treat as so taboo and so unhealthy may in fact actually be very normal. You know, cuckolding porn and milph porn is actually some of the most popular pornography on the internet now because people are really men especially are really intrigued by the idea of powerful sexual

women who are confident in their bodies and their sensuality. Men find that really sexy. You know what they do? Yeah. Yeah. Hello women take charge in the bedroom. You know women can have on record there have been women who had you know 60 orgasms in an hour but on record the most. I'm going to beat that. Yeah. During the show. You know maybe some of the idea. I'm going to beat that. Yeah. Tonight. During the show?

You know, maybe. It's not a bad idea. I had some of my toys here. But now. Get one of those good vibes. I feel so. Yeah. But men simply can't compete.

And there is something that some men find incredibly appealing about the idea of helping their wives or their woman explore kind of the infinite aspects of a female sexuality. Men get a lot out of this and it's some of the stuff that I talk about in that book is why these couples do it and why this thing that we think is so crazy maybe isn't. Right because and they say there's a lot of different levels to it like some men just yeah they those benevolent men who just want to see their women have the most pleasure they can which is amazing I haven't yet to find that man but also that you know it feels good that your wife

you know is won't desired by someone else but it also can you shaming someone think you know yeah he's being as bigger than mine it feels. It feels so bad kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. There's sometimes there's that humiliation kind of component. Leopold van Saker-Mesach that masochism was named after. He actually explored this. He posted ads in the German newspapers of the day, kind of the Craigslist of the day, looking for a virile young man to be a friend, to befriend his wife, because he thought that watching another man have sex with his wife would be the ultimate in humiliation that Masak wanted to learn about and wanted to experience. It goes back that far and even further, but now there are also some unhealthy aspects to

this where, you know, some men kind of treat their wives as property. And it's this, it's this misogynistic kind of aspect to it. Now, does that condemn the whole lifestyle or is it again simply an aspect of the fact that humans one talent is to fuck anything up? We can take anything. Yes, we can take anything no matter how beautiful and wonderful it is and Make bad decisions with it But that doesn't condemn that behavior that lifestyle that desire that need It simply says that if we're going to do this we need to do it with respect negotiation and compassion Which is what people don't often do is sex which is why get so complicated in relationships

And I think so going back to porn and all that, I feel like there's a lot of women who just don't understand their partners to say their husband's need or boy, whatever it is, boyfriend, to watch porn. They're like, I don't get it. We're having amazing sex. And why does he need to sneak off and do this thing? And I would say, you know, it's healthy, it's normal. And it's the better sex they have.

You know, of course, it can be a problem too, but women are just, they're so confused by it because we don't often have the same desires and need to watch much. And remember what I said about what a man is worried about when he has sex. He's worried about his ability to please the woman, to give her orgasms, to stay hard, to stay over long enough, and on and on and on.

A lot of guys tell me that when they watch porn, it's about kind of a selfish release. It is about not having to worry about those things. It is an escape where they can be turned on and watch these women in porn who are easily satisfied. You know, the guy just shows up in a porn and the woman is coming. I know, but this is my problem with porn, though, is that when people are learning to porn, they're like, well, and then guys have talked to when they're like, oh, that was she was the best. It was the best sex. Like, well, why is it? Well, she came really easily, you know, that's always what guys want. But then they're when they're

watching porn, technically, I'm thinking, you know, he's nowhere near her. Clitters that can't be pleasurable. But that's what guys think women are all going to orgasms. And so that's the. And that's why porn shouldn't be education. It's entertainment. So we have no, right, exactly. I totally agree. But even that's the only place. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important.

And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important.

And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's more important. And that's why it's so yeah, and that's really part of the problem I think that we all have is that there is so much

Shaming around it and that the media won't even talk about it But yet everyone's online doing you know, it's just so the media makes money off of making people afraid by creating anxiety in Viewers they they get viewers to tune in and then they sell them shit Anxiety is used to manipulate people and and and to sell commercials Sex everybody is kind of nervous about sex is a universal kind of experience because again We all know that there are times that we did things or thought about doing things when we were turned on So it's really easy for the media to get people nervous about

sex worried that there's something wrong with them, that there's something wrong with their partner, their partner might be cheating on them. These are really easy things to stir people up about and to manipulate them. You know, I talk a lot about chicken little. Chicken little is an amazing story. The story of chicken little is over 2,000 years old because it is a fact that people use fear to manipulate other people. And in the story of chicken little, you know chicken little thinks the sky is falling and runs around and grabs people up and leads them off to protect them from the sky falling. It's everybody all worked up about this panic. They go into the cave where the fox says, oh don't worry, I'll take care of you, keep you safe, and then the fox eats them. It is a valuable moral story that we need to look at because the media and frankly our government and oftentimes our leaders are using our fear and anxiety to

manipulate us, control us and to sell us shit. Right. And to repress and suppress our sexual desires and make us feel like we're not normal and something's wrong. But how do you explain like people's, if porn is actually the nod in addiction, what about people's compulsive sexual behaviors? If it's not addiction, you know, then what is it? Like if they're compulsively, you know, we get all the time people, I masturbate 10 times a day. I can't, you know, I was just saying this last week, I, you know, again, I was talking earlier about every party everywhere I go, people like pull me aside. I

haven't seen you too. Oh yeah. And he said, oh, you know, I think I have a problem I masturbate twice a day. I'm like, that's not a, I said this last week. So twice a day. He's like, no, finally, you know, for a few minutes, he's like, well, it's actually like six or seven times a day and the porn is really hardcore and he's single, but he's like, now I'm trying to date women and I can't even get an erection. People are reporting this more and more and more. And there is even the belief that porn is causing erectile dysfunction. First, there's no research to support that.

There's no research really for us to figure out what's actually going on. But what we need to know is that we're talking about a rectal dysfunction more now than we've ever talked about. Which is good. Which is good. But as a result, we're finding out that it happens a lot more than we ever thought. And there's a writer in the 70s called Herb Goldberg and he said the wisdom of the penis. He says, sometimes your dick is smarter than you are. And it's not getting hard and it shouldn't get hard You need to pay attention to that now the other thing I say to guys when they're reporting this When should the dick get hard if it wants to get hard the penis if you are

Making bad decisions if you're not taking care of yourself if you're not taking care of yourself, erectile dysfunction, especially in young men, is typically predicted by smoking, drugs, anxiety, and sexual inexperience. When we rule all of those things out, and then we start looking at porn, our guys anxious because porn is easy and real relationships are hard,

our guys in their head more, our guys worried that, you know, this woman might be more difficult to satisfy than the women in porn are probably. Yeah, because we are. And that can be really scary. It's a difficult, but you know, it takes some work. When a guy reports that to me, oftentimes my first response is, well, good. Now you get to explore all the other aspects of sex that don't involve a hard penis. There is a lot more to me, oftentimes my first response is, well, good. Now you get to explore all the other aspects of sex that don't involve a hard penis. There is a lot more to sex than just getting

interaction. And by and large, when a guy does that and takes some of the pressure off and they start learning how to how to touch and be touched and they start learning about all these other aspects of sexuality that, for instance, lesbian couples explore. Exactly. Then they take some of that pressure off and magically their penis gets hard. Well, OK, so this is what I want to talk to you

because we talked about this on the show recently and we talked about this all the time. But there are certain men who don't get that by providing female pleasure, they can also receive pleasure. Like, they don't get that by providing female pleasure, they can also receive pleasure. Like they don't get, they're like, oh, I gotta go down to her performance that I might last my erection. And then there's the men, obviously,

you're like, I'm all about your pleasure and it turns me out when you're turned on. And for like, really, there's guys that don't forget and like, yeah, I've been with those guys, you know, once. So, but can a man ever come around, like do you teach men that you're like, listen, what if you, because I try to teach women too, like for example, who don't like performing all sex on the dial, be like, you know, it's extension of him, you love him, it's just me, you know, it's his penis, can you look at it

like, you know, you have the power and it's beautiful, you know, whatever. But I'm wondering, and I hope that that helps many people, but I'm wondering if, you know, there's some guys who just don't get it, like they're just never going to see the beauty in that, they're just going to see this work, they're going to be in their head, they're going to be you just don't get it like they're just never gonna see the beauty in that they're just gonna see this work they're gonna be in their head they're gonna be like wise and shaping orgasm yet I'm my you know what I mean? I think yeah you know there's only so much we can do with personality. Well what I'm saying is that is it selfishness just not a self-awareness you can't teach someone that this is gonna make you feel I promise this will make you feel like you know what

I mean to get in and do that. No, but, but you can teach people to be willing to try for their, for their partner. Right. And that's how you work with couples and you know. Absolutely. You know, what are you willing to put on the table and what am I willing to put on the table? You know, what, what can you survive? I think that people again put so much pressure on sex because sex feels so good and it's so important and we're so obsessed with sex

That sometimes we treat sex as though it's too important For us to identify that we can negotiate we can compromise You know, I might really not want not be that interested in doing this behavior Whatever it is like anal sex or something else, but you know, I love you and it's not it's not be that interested in doing this behavior, whatever it is, like anal sex or something else. But, you know, I love you and it's not, it's not the end of the world, I'm willing to try. You know, I had the chance to meet this one couple one time who had been married like 65 years.

They were like in their 90s and they were this cool, curmudgeoningly old couple. And I said, you know, ultimately, how did you do it? And their answer basically boiled down to, you don't sweat the small shit. You know. In a relationship? That's right. You find ways to compromise.

And you accept that this other person is a whole other person. And sometimes they might do things that drive you ape shit. And they will. And you'll drive them crazy and the whole thing. But how do you get, I mean, the interesting thing interesting thing is like with couples I think it's also the way they communicate with like wow it's like you is here anal sex is a great example. My boyfriend my partner's pressuring me he's pressuring me we don't have any anal sex

and birthday we have anal sex and then and then and then it becomes the thing you don't want to do it's the way people talk about it as well like I don't want to force you you know but hey baby this is something we could try we could start off slow but it's just I think it's the way people talk about it as well. Like, I don't want to force you. You know, but hey, baby, this is something we could try. We could start off slow, but it's just, I think it's the way they communicate about it. It is. Sexual communication is such a huge issue. Huge. We don't talk about it in a healthy way.

Again, we put so much pressure on it. But think about it. We're not teaching people to communicate about sex in any way, shape or form. Why are we surprised that sex is such a controversial issue in common? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's what I'm trying to fight the good fight here.

And so are you, because I'm trying to get cut, but it's just like, and you work with them. And I talk to millions of people a week, come on. On the show, and it's just like, you have to just, I think it's that people have so much shame around it and they're afraid to share it with their partner and if they can't actually imagine saying the words out loud and you know like just practice by yourself then what you want to say right it down I mean there's got to be it's like ribbon banded off and then when you start the

conversation you might not be perfect the first time but it will improve your sex life for sure. Absolutely the more you can be aware of your needs and respect your partner's needs and communicate about them both, oftentimes the more effective sexuality can be. But sometimes you have to fuck like strangers. I agree. I too. And so it's a balance. Right. I absolutely agree. So you have to, um, because it is going to get Salem boring after a while. It just is. And I feel like every day when I hear people that they're so surprised, they're like, I'm so shocked.

They've, it's like, they don't know that this is going to happen. I had to like, no one warns them. Like, I have friends of kids and they're like, no one tells you how hard it is. And it's like, every day people wake up to like, why aren't we having sex anymore? Why isn't it as good as it was?

And they just let it die. And like, that's, it is, it is, it is the glue that's going to keep your relationship together. So you can't let it slip by the way, which is, you which is important. I think why you're doing good work here. We've got to wrap up. Oh my God.

That was amazing. That's crazy. That's crazy. I know. Really. It's been great to have you here. You can find you at facebook.com-david.lay. That's L.E.Y. You had to get into the business because of the lay.

At David, at Dr. David Lay on Twitter. And buy both your books. Buy both my books. Twitter is a good place to find me because I usually post all the media that I do. You do a lot of media. You're really great. I love that you're bringing the tent to this because it is becoming a whole sex addiction and people are over. People who are diagnosed them themselves all the time too.

Oh yeah, I'm one of the only guys that is out there saying wait, come on folks, this is not real science. Let's pay attention to the real issues and stop blaming sex and calling it an addiction. It's too easy. It's a cop out. Okay, well, took out your book and thank you for being here on the show. It's great to see you and Anderson, you rock. Thanks for being here tonight and thanks everyone for listening to Sex with Emily. It was good for you. E-Belmy, feedback at sexwithamlee.com. Speaking of penises, as you know I love being able to help you have the sex life you deserve. And let me tell you about Permanent. One in three men does suffer from premature ejaculation.

But you don't have to now. Permanent is a quickly absorbing delay spray that allows you to have the sex you want. You don't even have to think about baseball or your great aunt Margaret with a furry mustache. You can focus on your partner's hot body now that you have the time to make them orgasm. Promescent closes the arousal gap between men and women. And you know, you just might get there faster than she would like. And so it less, promising helps you less twice as long. It's the only FDA approved treatment for premature ejaculation.

Go to promescent.com. That's promescent.com, PROMES. E-S-E-N-T. Hey guys, true car is changing car buying forever. True car helps car buyers get rid of the fear that they might overpay. Just in the first six months of this year, over 275,000 cars were sold by the True Car Certified Dealer Network. And true car users save an average of $3,221 off MSRP.

When does that happen? When you're ready to buy a car, just follow these three easy steps. First, go to TrueCard.com to find out what others paid for the car you want. Then, register to see upfront pricing information and lock in your savings. Third step, simple. Just print out your savings certificate and take it to the TrueCard certified dealer for a better, hassle-free car buying experience. Some features are not available in all states to see how much

you can save on the car you want. Simply download the TrueCar mobile app or visit truecar.com today. That's TrueCar.com. you