Sex With Emily - The Truth About Relationships with Neil Strauss

Episode Date: September 9, 2017

Some people have a stem of unhealthy relationships, and can’t seem to figure out why. On today’s show, Emily is joined by best selling author Neil Strauss to talk about his journey through relationships that will help others get to the root of their issues!   Emily and Neil converse about the importance on emotional health and working on yourself before opening up to relationships. They talk about different types of therapy, ways to regain confidence, and communicating to become better lovers and people overall. Oh, and an impromptu discussion about dick pics! Don’t miss this truly invigorating discussion.   Thanks for supporting our sponsors who help keep the show FREE: Magic Wand RC, System JO, Fleshlight, UVee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Today's show I'm interviewing Neil Strauss, best-selling author of many books including The Game, where he goes undercover to reveal the secret society of pickup artists, and his follow-up book 10 years later, The Truth, and a comfortable book about relationships. And we uncover a lot of truths. We discuss approaches to therapy that will help you figure out unhealthy relationship patterns, Neil's intense journey from surface level games to a personal transformation that will inspire you to take a deeper look at yourself. I really respect Neil and how he's articulated his journey, and I so enjoy this discussion,

I think you're going to get a lot out of it as well. Enjoy the episode! Into his eyes Then the eyes of a man obsessed by sex Eyes that mock our sacred institutions Betrubized they call them a lie on me Hey, Evelyn, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken He thinks you're kind of cute The girls got a hair standard, oh my

The women know about shrinkage Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean like laundry? It's shrink? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my god, I'm so dumb. Being bad feels pretty good. You know Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex relationships and everything

in between. For more information go to sexwithemle.com. You can check out our podcast. All my podcasts are there. Are you ever doing it for.com. You can check out our podcast. All of my podcasts are there. You don't have to do it for 12 years. You can download, there's so much more available though, that's even available on iTunes. You can also get it on Google Play, SoundCloud, Spotify. I heart radio, that's the latest place. I love when you review us.

I like it when you say nice things. I like affirmations, but it's cool. If you wanna say not nice things, that's fine too. It helps us to get reviewed. And most importantly, subscribe to the podcast podcast because when you subscribe to the podcast, you know what? One of the bonuses, one of the benefits of when you subscribe, you can actually go back to your place. You could like go back to where you were listening.

And if you're not a subscriber that doesn't happen, but also that also helps us. So we can continue to keep the podcast free. Get more listeners, self-subscribed. I don't explain that to you. You guys get it. You've been listening also. Please follow me on social media because that's a really good time. I answer your questions. I like to say hi, but listen, no dick picks.

You guys know, like the second there's a dick pick, like you're gone. I do leave you from Snapchat and wherever it does, but wherever that happens. But I do love hearing from you, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, it's all at the sex with Emily. So today, I am very excited for my guest, Neil Strauss. Hi, Neil. Thank you for having me. How many dick picks do you excited for my guest, Neil Strauss. Hi, Neil.

Thank you for having me. How many dickpits did you get actually? Okay, that's a good question. It's funny, because my friend was visiting me from Chicago, very different kind of lifestyle. She's got three kids. It was like she was taking time off from our family. And I don't really talk about,

but lately I've been like every other show I bring that up because I get, I would say a few a month, maybe. You think it'd be crazy and you'd think that'd be encouraging people. I was like one dick pick is one too many. Exactly. One dick pick, one too many, but she was with me and I was like, now it's like a habit. I'm like, oh, dick pick block.

And she's like, what was that on your phone? I just saw that and I thought that was a dick pick. I was thinking about like why guys send dick picks and let's talk about that in a second, and forget and other stuff. But so the first reason I was thinking, well, they think, oh, like a woman's an atom is hot, so she might be hot seeing my anatomy and not getting it.

That's what I originally thought. But so many, like, dick picks have been like, you don't, anyone in the world knows, dick picks aren't hot, and girls make show them to each other and laugh, and then delete it to make fun of you, and block you. So I also think it may be a guy's way of saying, well, this is never gonna happen,

but at least you've been really close to my dick. Right? So I think it's a deductive thing, or just like a show off thing. I think there's also a show off element too. Look at this and proud of it. This angle makes it look big. Exactly. Exactly.

I shaved. I bought one of those penis pumps we should never use. Those don't work by the way. But I think there's another way of like saying, okay, listen, you're gonna be like, at least like my dick's been close to your face. I think that might be one reason my guys do it Which is kind of a salt on other people? It isn't a salt. It isn't a salt

Yeah, my dear dick's been close to me and then I guess and the name might think it's kind of like a numbers game Right like if I center on maybe there's one more It's a dick number. It's a dick's game. I'm I knew way my ego is not that that big to think that I'm the only one Who got that dick pick that day. And you probably have like a coder, you probably have a library. Do you think they have a mass text, dick distribution list? I don't, yeah, I do. I do. I think they're like, who am I sent this dick to?

Or maybe they do like, A, B testing or something. Like, which dick tick's getting more, dick tick. Dick tick. Dick tick's getting more responses. But now when you say it's a number scheme, but do you think there is a number like, like, out of a thousand dick picks, one gets like, oh, I like your dick. Yeah, so I'm thinking they're thinking that there's got to be somebody. If I send this to everybody, I know there's got to be some woman who's like, oh, nice dick.

Like nice, thank you. And let's go out. I don't know that happens. Yeah. I'd actually kind of like tear for people if that's true. You can go see that. You can get such something that comes. So, okay.

If your dick pick opens some kind of door for you in some way, and your relationship started because of someone got your dick pick and they were just so overwhelmed and thrilled by that, I would like to know if that exists. And let me make a clear distinction here, which is if you're gonna respond to this, the dick pick has to been received before you saw this person naked. Yes, exactly.

It wasn't like they've already sucked your penis, sucked your dick or anything like that. And here's just that souvenir to remember. Yeah, he's like that day pick open the door. It was like it was a great pick up line, but it was a deck pick. Can you imagine, well, okay, Neil Strauss, high Neil. Yeah, hey. I've always wanted to, I mean,

so it's funny because the game came out in 2005, which was the first year I started my podcast. Oh, no way, that's interesting. Yeah, it was really the first thing that I was, I mean, I was thinking when I was driving over, I was over I was like I would have dreamed then to have you on the show Because I had all your like lackeys out like people who wanted to be okay Okay, and they wanted to be in that world and they were all like the game became a Bible Yeah, I actually don't know what was happening pregame like were you the one who kind of shed the first person who opened that up

Or were these guys are underground? Yeah, they know there. Yeah, they all existed. They were all underground doing their thing. And I found it not to write a book just because I was just really lonely and could connect with women. Or I'd be interested in someone and they would start dating someone else. And I'm like, what do I not know? What am I doing wrong?

I'm interesting. I'm writing for Rolling Stone. And I'm going to these amazing concerts with backstage passes. I'm going on the road with Motley Crew and nothing is happening and I just could not figure it out and either I was and and I felt like these like you know guys who didn't have money didn't have a look, didn't have fame but I cracked this code like dude like you guys are you're doing it without the things that I thought I grew up thinking I needed. Yeah I'm going back to this because people who don't, and I find that some people I'm always

amazed when they haven't heard of it. So that's really what it was. You were kind of, you know, you were right, you had all these friends who were getting like, and you kind of were like, how do they do it? What did the secret? Yeah. And you went in and you like live with them and their communities and you've learned how to like, and then in the book.

My whole career was basically based on me, like trying to figure out how to have sex. Right. And then all of a sudden, they weren't having sex. Right. Because literally like, first, so I did the book with Motley Crew, not try to figure out how to have sex. Right. And then all of a sudden, they were having lots of sex. Right. Because literally, like, first, so I did a book with Motley Crew, not just to do this, the dirt, which I guess is my favorite book. I don't know if you've read it, but it's, no. No, I would.

And you would think, well, why would I want to read that? I'm not a Motley Crew fan, but I promise you, like, it's on, and I'm, again, I'm not a fan of all my books, but that one, like, you can't stop reading. You can't stop reading. Okay, no, I will. Yeah, and again, like, it's, yeah, it's nuts. It's crazy. So anyway, so I went on the road with them because I thought, oh, dude,

if I'm on the road with them, I'll be crying. I can't get in. Yeah, I'm not getting in. Like, come on. And so I still didn't. And then I'm like, okay, I know, I'll do a book with Jenna James in the porn stuff. Right.

You're out of ton of porn stuff. I day off sex all the time. And so still nothing happened. And then I kind of gave up. And then I found out about this commuter name Like okay, maybe I can figure this thing out and you live with them and they can I do that They kind of existed but I feel like they were all like hitty be up But let me be on your show like I was in San Francisco at the time

Yeah, well a weird thing happened after the game But just to like put the closer on that and this is true for anybody out there who's trying to get like anything whether it sex, fame, money Bro, your brand whatever your thing is, followers, whatever it is, like obviously the greatest thing about getting the thing you want for whatever, whether it's the sex or the money or the fame or the thing or whatever it is, the greatest thing about getting it is you realize that you totally

satisfies nothing. Exactly. And then you start fixing, that's probably what led to the truth, then you start fixing the real problems inside that made you want in the first place. Exactly. Oh my God, it's so true. I mean, we all, we, everyone says it's about the journey, it's about the journey.

And you're just like, fuck it, I want to get to this place. Then exactly, you got there. Even just little things and big things, like driving here, I was like, I would have been so psyched to interview you 10 years ago. And I'm like, oh, no, you don't care. No, no, no, no, I was really excited. I was really excited, but I was like, oh my God, and I have a moment. But yeah, are all the things that have happened to me. I was really excited. I was really excited. I was like, oh my god, I have a moment. But yeah, are all the things that have happened to me?

I was broke, sorry, in the podcast, and then you get to certain places and yeah, exactly. So it's not about the, it's not really about, not that we shouldn't have goals and aspirations, but the truth would have brought you to. So here was Neil, you guys shall just go back and read it. The point is, I think the point is that, but I want to make the point that I think you're trying to make, that why not just fill the hole now, where now versus trying to get something else to fill it and then move forward because you're really gonna be happy and have a better life and I because I interview a lot of people for Rolling Stone so I interview people who are at the top of

the game and music film entertainers that kind of stuff and when they hit their peak when they're just like a household name there's something that always happens which is a hit of big depression. Because they realize before it's like, oh, I'm sad, I'm depressed, I'm struggling, but that's just because I'm not there yet. Then you get there and you're still sad and depressed and you can't blame it on anything else but yourself.

Exactly. And that's why you'll see him turn to the smart ones. Yeah, they'll turn the drugs or the spirituality, right? Right. Or they'll find something, they'll find something other, they'll fill a hole with something good or something bad. Right, so that's exactly what happened to you,

really with the game. As far as how we love in relationships, and that's why the truth you went through this whole journey of five years, it took you to write it. You wrote, I want to back off from it about this whole. Because you just said that it'd be so great if you could fill the hole beforehand

for you to get to this depression, but I think that that's the impetus, right? There's no deterrent at that point, there's no rock bottom, right? I mean, you're not like, if I couldn't have stopped, people I believe they couldn't have stopped on the climb up to the top to just take time out

and go to therapy, maybe spiritual because you have to kind of get to that place. It's kind of like the right of passage. Yeah, it's part of it, it's true. It's totally part of the journey, which is why there's nothing I don't regret that game experience because I needed to take that journey to realize, I didn't need it.

You did for exactly. You did for exactly. You met a game a lot of other things. And also here's another thing that's probably true is some listeners and other people, which we didn't mention, which is some people feel like, love will feel the whole. Like if I feel people who feel incomplete

without someone else, like dude, if you don't feel complete without a relationship, then you're not ready for a relationship. Right, right, it's so true. Like, you know, if you are, I feel like half a person, you're gonna attract for a relationship. Right, right. It's so true. If you feel like half a person, you're gonna attract another half a person that is gonna fill the areas where you don't feel so great about yourself.

Which I agree, I know you've said that as well. That's like the definition of codependence or just like some of relationships. Right, so two holes coming together, that's a great relationship. Right, exactly. And we tend to attract that, which we think will fill us up.

So at the end of the day, we think it's love, we think it's sex, we think it's affirmation, we think it's love, we think it's sex, we think it's affirmation, we think it's money, we think it's all this stuff from the outside, but really it's about loving ourself and understanding ourself. Right, and those are easy things to say, right? But it's so hard to understand, it's easy to say, but people are like, oh yeah, love myself.

Right, or you're gonna make a lot of money. Right, or even focusing on getting what you need from the inside out instead of the outside in. So after the game, you had all the success so you kind of riding high, doing all these things. And then that's when you kind of hit your depression. Let's talk about that, what happened to you. Yeah, I think, yeah, so like the totally,

like, really honest thing, and it's in the Moxos, not like a giant revelation, but it's true that, so like, I've been just, my relationships kept failing. Like out there, I was cheated on or I was cheating. And eventually I just cheated on someone I loved, thought we had a future together. And then I just thought, how can I hurt somebody I loved and cared about? Like why am I hurting my chance for a better future? Why did I get to train my own ethics and moral system by lying and betraying them and

all the stuff? So I really felt devastated. So I went to train my own ethics and moral system by by lying and betraying them and all the stuff. So I really felt just devastated. So I went to like sex addiction rehab. Was that your idea or was it like a therapist idea? That was, it was actually, it was actually Rick Rubin, the producer was his idea. Okay. And he lives in the neighborhood and would go for like paddle boards and he'd just give me life advice.

Right. And he was the one who said like, look, you got everything you wanted with the game and you're still not happy. You know, maybe you got to me life advice. Right. And he was the one who said, like, look, you got everything you wanted with the game and you're still not happy. You know, maybe you got to look at this. Right. So there's, right. And you kind of detail all the, a lot of it in the book is about your, your sex addiction.

Yeah, but you kind of find out you're not really a sex addict. No, yeah. It was interesting. There's a lot of revelations, though. But it was the greatest thing. So here's the things. I recommend addiction, like therapy for everybody, but not necessarily the 12 steps. But you didn't, okay.

I mean, I think that's great for addiction. What I mean is this, there, and I can talk about what some of them are and where I'd recommend people go. But here's the great thing about regular therapy, like talk therapy, you just go in a room, you talk to somebody for an hour, there's no treatment plan. You don't know when you're done, like you don't really know where you're going, you just talk about some stuff and they give you some ideas and thoughts and insights. So when you say that, and I agree with you

that talk therapy, I mean, I've done a lot of, you know, for like 15 years, I was in a talk therapy and group therapy and then I tried some other things. And I'm wondering for you, what were the other so-traumat therapy? But what are the other therapy? Yes, yes, let's talk about this.

It's a surprise. I really like it. And again, but I really think it's true. I think there are a couple issues. One is like the therapy model doesn't work that we have. The second one is we're not like, if I have like a soapbox or something or something like what I want to change the world is that we don't take our mental and psychological and emotional health seriously and we're not taught that. So in other words when you're growing up, if you go to doctors for a checkup whether you're sick or not, you go to school for intellectual education, whether you're, you know, smart or not, but you don't go to work on your emotional health unless it's totally dysfunctional and destroying everything. Or they prescribe the pill for you.

Exactly. So if we've taught like, you know, emotional health and well-being, mindfulness and all those things is just part of the process. I totally agree. We have like a healthier society everywhere. If you want to change the world, we're already fucked. Like, but the kids don't have hope. Well, I think it's funny, because I'm the show, and I say this a lot to people,

the lot of my listeners, I'm like, you just, you guys, you do therapy, it sounds like you need therapy, and also like being on love line, you need therapy, and it's so, I don't want that to always be like my main, you know,

something like that. So listen to them. Okay, so let's talk about that. For some people though, but for some people, I think, like, I feel like for me, talk therapy got me to a point where I was like, oh, I really didn't have the perfect childhood. Oh, this is how things

can I almost needed to start there? But here's the thing. Here's the thing. By the way, two, there are two issues, but here's the thing about that. It's a great start. Understanding is not enough. So there's almost almost worse. And then LP, it's called conscious incompetence. You know, you're doing it wrong. So a lot of people they can understand their problem, but they keep doing it. Person who's like, I'm never going to date a guy like this again. Next guys just like that. That know you're doing it wrong. So a lot of people they can understand their problem, but they keep doing it. Person who's like, I'm never gonna date a guy like this again. Next guy's just like this. That's who they're attracted to,

but their body reacts to. So here's the thought. First of all, the other problem in society is like, it's a rich person's game therapy and psychological healing because there's no insurance that covers. You don't have to have some discretionary income to do it. It's sad. But the bigger thing is this,

the trauma didn't come in intellectually, right? It came in through your like, through feelings, the absorbing stuff, through, you know, experience, experientially and, you know, emotionally. So, talk is not going to get it out, because it's not a talk part of your brain. So, what was the bodywork therapy that you did? Yeah, so here's what you do. Right. So, here's stuff that really worked for me. One is it's called post-induction therapy, P.A. Melody, who is amazing, designed it. Yeah. Drew's told me about this. Dr. Drew. Oh really? Yeah, it gave me your name. Like I said, you should go. Yes, and I fall. Did you say you should go to survivors at the Meadows? No, he said just P.A. Melody, I remember. Yeah, P.A. Melody is great.

That she just developed a model. She was a nurse, just a genius and a really great model of childhood. You guys were to take quick break. We're going to come back here with Neil Strauss. I think we could talk for six hours if we didn't have to get into a sauna and do his podcast in a minute. But thank you everyone for supporting our sponsors. You know that I have every product, every service, everything I talked about I've tried. I've used.

I love. It makes me feel so good. I know it'll make you feel good too, and we'll be right back. Thanks for listening. I got a lot of things to say. But at least we care about this stuff. We do. No, we do. I'm so into it. What was the, Oh, I was going to say, here's the cheap solution.

I really recommend this. And I think it's great. Is, Yeah, the cheap solution, I don't even know what, Right. So here's what you do. And I literally did this.

I got together, I'm a new, you know, married now to the girl that I was dating before, in grade, you know, we have a kid now. So I got like, and it's tough. I think when you have a child, I learned how to have a relationship, center relationship with children, is a whole new world. Oh my god, yeah. So yeah. So I got together with like maybe five other

guys who also were new dads, and I said, hey let's just get a group together. We'll each chip in for the therapist. Instead of one person doing it, it's all five. The therapist comes in, we sit down with them. And in fact, today is when I do it. So at six today, we do this meeting and it's great. So what you can do is get five people together. You all chip in on the therapist. The therapist. That is so smart.

And let me tell you, I think that I was in a woman's group for six years. Stayed women every week. You go into me. And I didn't understand it first. I thought, well, I'm paying for therapy. I want attention on me, but you learn so much in a group setting because you bring yourself

to the group, people help people see you, they reflect on you. I think that is brilliant. I've actually never heard of like, you know, it's like the Uber for therapy or something like that. Uber left, we don't like that word, but yeah, really, like, that's really freaking smart.

Because I remember, yeah, you need to pay like 50 bucks or something, you know, or whatever. And here's why group therapy is better besides what you said. Yeah, besides what you said, first of all, there have been studies and of course, like, I question all studies, but there have been studies that show group therapy is better, but people only quote the studies that prove their point. Right. So, so, but one of the reasons I found it to be better besides what you said is that like,

if you have a therapist and the therapist says, Hey, here's what's going on. You're doing your thing again. You can be like, no, you're wrong. But when the therapist says it and four other people in the room, all say it, even if you're kind of like, all right, maybe they have a point. Exactly. If five people see the same thing and you don't see it,

they're, they're not likely right to. And they really don't, and there's a sort of, like there's a trust. Obviously, people think, my friends, they gossip to their right, no, there is a circle of trust. And they hope that they're not going home and sharing that. There is. It's amazing. Yeah. I mean, they're not going home and sharing that. There is. It's amazing.

Yeah. I mean, you're choosing good people. And you're choosing good people. I love that you're doing that. That is like the best idea I could leave right now. Yeah. Good. And I'd be done with this.

But I'm not. So going back to like the game, like, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I had to be sick. You could tell. Yeah, no, I guess. I guess people like that.

I'm going back to these questions. I have to ask that I think you are interested in. No, no. Worried. I'm back. I'm obsessed with therapy. But I feel like I'm also talking, you know, I have to ask that I think they're interested in. Yeah, where is your, I'm back. I'm with them, I'm here. I'm obsessed with therapy. But I feel like, I'm also talking, I feel like you just tell people out. But I want to go back to like, if you could read, because the game you said you don't love

all your books, do you still love the game? How do you feel about that? Yeah, I mean, any book I wrote like was true to who I was at the time. Right, exactly. And I would never write a book now. It is, you do your therapy through these book, in many ways, it's cathartic, right?

Really do, and it's almost like, yeah, it's like those growth marks on it. It's cathartic, right? Really do. And it's almost like, yeah, it's like those growth marks on it. Hopefully, they're all growth marks on the wall. You're like, oh, that's who I was back then. And that's why I really recommend, like, I love writing and I recommend writing because you see who you are at that point. Exactly. And I found people who are procrastinators and take too long to do a book or an album.

If you take like five years, you're a new person by the end of it. So you start hating the beginning of it. And then you've lost that chapter of your life That's true. You just got to get through the procrastination part. Okay. I have a question for you though Like because a lot of a lot of my listeners I get questions all the time and confidence from that But like how do I get confidence as a person or how do I get how do I get coming up man and women but but that book was kind of like getting men Who maybe not wouldn't be comfortable be talking to women sleep with women. You didn't have the confidence either of that. And there's a lot in there that's about playing a game.

People are like, I can do this. I can say these words. I can neg a woman I can do these things. But what would you say now, the kneel today? What would your advice be to men? That you're like, you had a few tips for like really building, cultivating confidence. Right.

What would you say? Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I think like if someone's just talking about confidence, I mean, cultivated confidence. Right. What would you say? Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I think like if someone's just talking about confidence, I mean, there's a difference, there's two different things. There's effective courtship behavior, let's say that we do that. Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk about effective courtship behavior. And then there's confidence and confidence goes back to the discussion we had previously,

right? Because, right, for me, super critical moment, everything I did was wrong. It was a mistake. Like, I literally be like packing a bag for college and like, are you doing that wrong? Why are you putting that there? It's like a running stream of criticism. Wow. And so obviously that leads to me being in self-doubt and questioning myself a lot. So the reason I write books is because well, there's no cover dialogue or conversation. Right. It's a brilliant head, but you have to probably quiet that.

Yeah, but I can communicate without being interrupted or criticized. I can be criticized afterward and that's fine, but at least I can get my thoughts out. So at the point being so the first of someone was just talking about a competence issue, like I would really look at the roots and the cause of it and work on that and the way we just discussed, but we can talk about the fun stuff too. Yeah, no, but that's okay, right, but even what about then some of the things? Would you recommend anything? Is there anything in the game that you say? And I know that the game wasn't just about that, but people's okay, right, but even what about then some of the things would you recommend anything? Is there anything in the game that you think and I know that the game wasn't just about that But people kind of took from there what they wanted to right, right, which is great

In many ways I guess for business for you like for selling the book, but I mean like to me like it's funny Because like the stuff in the game the stuff like we learn to get into like so much it's like so It's a really smart about human nature So what you're gonna do it or not, understanding it is really smart and they're just simple dumb things that guys do all the fricking time. And I don't think it's manipulative to say, hey, stop doing that dumb shit and do some smarter shit.

Like what? I mean, I can just give you an example. Like, here's like a simple thing. And there's so many things that are we smarter to do and there's so much stuff. There's so many things. I don't know why. I'm just thinking this one recently.

That's not the best, but just happen recently. So people who are traveling, this is for guys, is to say, hey, I'm new here, I don't know around, you know anything kind of cool going on, and people usually be nice and want to show them around. But what's interesting is that when you do that, it's not sexy. I get right to be like, hey, can you tell me?

You're right, because you're like just... Are you good bands playing in that? Right, right, right. You don't know what's going on. You're dependent. For some reason, you might even make friends, but it's exactly. So I always tell people, be like, be coming to an expert in where you're going. So it's so much cooler.

It's weird. You'll still meet people both ways, but this other way I'm going to recommend will lead to more chemist,grey and romance, which is like research a place so you meet someone in whatever town it is in New York or something, you're visiting, if you heard this place, please don't tell. When you're talking about,

like you know what's that? It's like it's a speakeasy. You know what, please don't tell by the way. Oh, it's amazing. So it's on St. Mark's. It's a hot dog stand, but there's a phone booth there. If you pick up the phone booth, and you have a reservation,

the back of the phone booth will open to a secret speak easy. I don't know this. You don't know that, I know. And then conversation will go like, wow, you're wearing New York. This is your city. I've never even been here before and I know this.

Right. And you automatically like, wow, you know, something that's like like a abstract. And then here's then the other thing is then you don't invite them then. You talk about some other stuff. You don't even invite them

because they're ready for that, right? So it's smarter, it's just sort of smarter to be that be so needy and desperate so you're there, you know, the town you're doing something cool, then when you're doing it, you're like, you know what, I enjoy this conversation. And if you want, we're gonna have a reservation on Thursday

if you wanna join us. So you don't invite them at that moment, but you invite them after that moment. Like in that moment, you just keep going. And they're waiting going, is he gonna invite me? Is he gonna invite me? So you've built that in a moment?

That is what I'm talking about. It's just sort you've felt that in a moment. That is right. It's just sort of like, it's not neat. It's cool. And it's also like, if you're offering everything up right away, they're like, well, do they really like me? Or they just sort of like, right?

Okay. So it's still like a strategic but come. Okay. But it's also just, it's also just like to me. Human nature kind of how we, right. It's just murder. Like obviously there's a great connection.

I mean, here's the other thing, because I go back and forth on the game. I think all manipulation is wrong all manipulations wrong but at the same time there's someone who like you know I mean so we've got married we have kids because of the game so was that manipulation right wrong I mean I don't have spiritual universal cosmic level truly but in that life and because there's whatever the children are born or there's, you know, that too awesome to love, it's okay. So if you maybe do this stuff stupidly, people are ready to say no to people very quickly,

because they get approached with a lot of things. And so maybe it helps you like, right, no, I think those are good, you know, and you, you know, I think that's, that is a good modification. So let's talk about sex. Right, okay, you know, sex body. Let's do that. Yeah. So when you were then, you were getting late a lot. Right. I had talk about sex. Right, okay. You know, sex body. Let's do that.

So when you were then, you were getting laid a lot. I remember at the game, you learned these tools. It's just a small thing. I was just thinking that recently, because someone was traveling. I loved it. And they were beating somebody. There, and I was like, don't go on

on to somebody else's fun. You be the source of the fun. That was so smart. That's true. It did that hard. It did like give to be like, but I'm not fun. That was quite all those things. You can find something. Like I was doing the interview with Tayboy right here

and a host were there and then they had their like, you know, models there. And the host were like, what are you guys doing this week? And like we're doing this. And like can we come and they're like, uh, like dude, no, you need to be having, doing something.

It's more fun than what they're doing, right? So women could do this too. Do you think that women should be leading with this too? Like, because then there was a certain like men of the leaders, women are the ones who are. So do you think that if I said, hey, I've got this great thing going on that would still be attractive to a guy?

Yeah, 100%. I think everybody feels that like, even if their life is awesome, there's something other stuff going on that could be more amazing and more fun. That's true, phoma. Yeah, exactly. Let's just pray on everyone's phoma. So sex then, so you start getting amazing and more fun. Yeah, right, exactly. Let's just pray on everyone's phone up.

Right. So sex then, so you start a ganglion having sex. So how do you think that your sex life has changed since? And by the way, and I do want to say this, which is I think a lot of the gender stuff is cultural, not biological, or talking about these differences. Uh-huh. Right, so there are cultural things that are ingrained,

and obviously later your listeners are beyond that stuff. Right. So just when I'm talking about men, it's sort of like an average of this is average of, this is kind of the way people are doing. Best of energy. Yeah, the truth, you guys should all read this book, the truth, you know Strauss, you really get into it.

When you spend five years going through this process, writing the book and the whole journey, I mean, I guess you're still in the journey, right? We're really in the journey. But would you say that there's been stuff that you've learned also? I know it's more about dating the game and that, but the sex, like you also went through

You know, yeah, I did no I trained like I went like the sexual training Tell me what was the most useful stuff that you've learned about sex right now that you're like a wise Guru now of all things yeah I mean honestly like the greatest thing and again like I went to all these things but like obviously is everyone knows it's not like To me it's more it's not all the techniques no right it wasn't like this great car like it's true unless you have one yeah like one of the things I learned or whatever like I think like tons of stuff all kinds of like spots and sensitive areas inside that didn't you know that I hadn't like really explored enough with her yet even though I kind of knew the main ones. There are some sub spots.

And also, just a lot more about like she has this great thing where you're sort of like, you know, blindfolded and playing with all five senses. Like, just for taste and stuff, just for auditory and just sort of having this, you know, multi-sensory, like, just enjoyable experience. We do that sometimes and just, technically wise. Yeah, I think a lot of like, there's so many amazing strokes to be learned and done. Right. Right. And like, amazing. So, like, really learning, like, you know, vaginal massage, like, dig massage, like, just learning, like, all this amazing. I was like a global mapping by a friend who's a sexological body worker. There's all these areas inside of us.

And Dali, who was on my show recently, she's a sexological body worker, somatic of their presence. Like I didn't even talk about this on my show, but she literally went in there and she was like, how does that feel? How does that feel? Like there's all these areas inside of us that I think that we, and I always assumed that men, first of all, like new their penises, and like they know their penises, they look at it all the time.

And the truth is that there's a lot that men don't know. They know how to like do one stroke and get us off. And how we do it is different than how we've wanted to. Exactly. So it's communication. Right, and then that was a third, yeah. So one was just like, there's so many amazing strokes. Like literally I'll be doing a meal,

like okay, it's time for this little violin thing and then like the burden the nest and then like the, in the nest and then like the you know and then whatever then the like they're so they're like just like and also when you're with somebody who's like great at just that massage part of it it's like the greatest. That was the spirit. Right so far. So um then the other thing was communication uh like and I think probably you talk about it I'm sure one of your show talks about it. Oh yeah I tell you all the time. People still don't do it, right? They don't have to communicate at all.

No, they don't even, well that's my show. Well, this is a, people just, yeah, there's so much shame around it and then there's a problem with sex and they've never even talked about sex. They don't, but that's sure exactly what to be doing and how do you even start the conversation. Yeah, yeah, or it's like done like,

oh, or you say it in some, and also find the way to say it where somebody doesn't feel Criticized that's a big learning how to communicate like that is just a whole another thing You could dive into to like a Tharf we the right way student wrong ways to do it, but the truth came out two years ago, right? Okay, so what about well how were you at now? How is it you have a child? Yeah, I'm working on other books. I can't say, but it's crazy. Oh, why?

Because it's like... It's the same kind of thing, though. Like, wherever you're at now. 100% different. Okay. But it's the craziest, like, in the most intense book I've ever done to my life. Oh, my God. The last one was really intense.

Yeah, this one's like... Unbelievable. Okay, and you can't tell me? Okay, so then I'm not even gonna press your... And all the books rise out of just things, not really happening in my life, and I say, if I just do a book, then I can dedicate myself, like, full time to it. Right, and that's'm not even gonna press your... And all the books rise out of just things that's not really happening in my life. And I say, if I just do a book then I can dedicate myself full time to it. Right, and that's what you're doing now. You're right now.

Yeah, but it'll be done by the end of the year. Oh, so I'll just wait that long. Yeah, but it's not so. We'll let me know. Yeah, I'll let you know. So, in the truth, I think that that's sort of a guide book, right, you're thinking it would be advice for people to learn.

I mean, I think everything is, I think, like, car Rogers said that personal is the universal. Yeah. So I feel like if I just tell my story is like It as a funnrably as I can but along the way of that story a road provider roadmap for others to follow That's kind of where it's at. What do you her what's been the feedback like to how people really? Oh, yeah, like I'm the best feedback the best feedback to me is someone's like I read that book like it was Oh, gee, yeah, the best feedback to me is someone's like, I read that book, like, it was laughed a lot, like, it's funny, it was nuts, it reflects a lot of my thoughts,

but along the way I realized, oh, I was raised, especially the idea of enmeshment, I don't know if you ever just have something to show. Yeah, yes, a little bit, but. So realizing, oh, I was raised like this, and that's why I choose these kinds of people in relationships, and like having, when like, ults are going up in people's heads,

like, that's the goal. I feel like that the great thing about the book and about therapy and all this stuff is that we could save so much time. Like we were saying at the beginning of the show that we kind of got to go through all these things to get to certain place. But with these things, a childhood issues

and figuring this stuff out, you know, I'm so grateful that I started therapy at like 20. I kind of had to because my dad died and I got into that. But I really am just like, I'm glad I started on the path when I did because I feel like a lot of our relationship issues and I learned this at a younger age, but like it's when I would break up with someone

when I was really young, I'd be like, oh, because he's an alcoholic or he's this or we don't like the same music or whatever you think when you're a kid when you're younger dating. But now I realize it was never about the other person. It was always about where I was at in my life. And then I kept dating in like a series of the same kind of people.

And then you finally realize it, like it's really not about them. It's about me getting healthy and then taking time off from dating and figuring that out. And I think that we could, like it take away from that and what you show in the book too, is that like we should all kind of take that time. I mean, if we, you find this is especially alone too.

And I think a lot of times you're like, well, I want to keep dating and there's all these other people to date. But once you can really pull back and go deep and do the work, then you'll be able to come out of it and pay much healthier partners. Right, and one of the therapists told me, really good line, which is like,

until you can be alone without loneliness, you're not ready for a relationship. But back, the point about what you were saying is, it is efficient, because it's like a ticking time bomb, whether you're gonna try to get to one of your career but even a self-sabotage, because the shit's gonna fuck you up, or it's gonna sabotage your relationship.

So there are like years people waste in that hurtful relationships and in like trying to build a career when they're just standing in their own way. So if you just clear this shit now, then you have a clear path to like robber connection or your- And it's the most important work.

I mean, I know we really got into it here, but I have to say there's one thing. But let me ask you this though. What? I know that I like that you're turning the conversation to sex and stuff and you've got to be fine. No, it's okay. I want to ask you this. You got three thousand.

No, I seriously want to ask you this. And your listeners tweet, they can tweet you. Yeah, tweet me. So do you feel, are you like fascinated to talk about sex? Do you feel like, oh, the pause cast is this? So let's make sure we hit that note. I don't know. I was thinking I was actually running last night.

I was listening to like a few truth barrels. I was like, prepping for this and thinking about it. I was like, thinking about the game which I read, you know, when it came out. I was thinking about it. I was like, what was sex like from them? Was he just like getting the numbers and banging these chicks and like, what was it good for you? No, of course, no, because of course, no.

Like, at the game point, you're like, of course, if somebody has a great experience with you, you get to have more great experiences with them and they're going to get better. So of course, that's part of it. And I think a lot of a lot of, again, I've talked about guys because that's the people who come to me and who I like work with the most, but like a lot of guys who are virgins and like, you know, 30 or something, it's not like people aren't attracted to them. They become too scared to even have sex. We're going to do it wrong and do it badly. And then that just the older they get the less. Right. So when would you tell them, I have a lot of virgins here listening. What would you tell them now? The older version.

Well, the first thing I would say is like, they're these concepts that don't exist. There's no such thing in the world as virginity. Like there's no like universal thing of virginity. It's just a weird fake fucking concept. It's totally fake. It doesn't meet like, it's same with monogamy, non-monogamy by the way. Fake artificial, right. Yeah, because I did, but their fake artificial distinction is created

by society, virgin non virgin, like fucking means nothing, you stick it in there versus there, it's not gonna be there versus there. Like fucking means nothing. The first thing I would say is, like just let go of that shit because it's hanging over your head and hurting you. So like let go of the cops.

But they're not gonna like go over like a 25 year old virgin who's like all his friends are getting late, he's like, I don't care what you call it, I haven't had my dick inside of mine. But then the question is, what do you do for a 25-year-old, does have any sexual experience? Or has less sexual?

I will do it right. Right, but I get that, but the first thing is, it just doesn't help to define yourself that way, or to think of that as a real thing, because it's not. Right, but as far as practical advice goes, here's the deal.

I think you're... So round into the practical and I love you so up here. No, no, no, I know. And I get it, like I know you're at. So... But here's the thing, here's why I'm at that place. So the game stuff, there's behavior stuff and there's belief stuff, right? So we can talk about the behavior stuff is really easy shit to fix.

If I say, hey, if you're walking up to someone, you walk straight up and you stand too close to them, they're gonna be uncomfortable. So it's nice here if you're talking to an angle and you kind of look over your shoulder. It's so easy to fix. And everyone can change that right away. But it's the belief stuff that fuels all this shit. So I'm into the belief stuff

because you change the beliefs. I'm too. All the behaviors change. So back to the person who's like a, a virgin or very little sexual experience over like at an age when they feel like they should have more. Obviously there's a belief issue at hand, hand. There's a belief issue behind that. So, I could say, and again, I do think you could learn this stuff. I would say, take all the advice

we can give in this whole thing and find out what it is that's making you feel uncomfortable. Like, really go deep with the thinking about what's it really about? Don't numb it. Don't really where it starts't numb it, like don't like really like, where did it start, where did it come from? Yeah, I would just say heal that thing, separate from this X and the other stuff will start happening. It's true. With relationships stuff,

you want to find a better relationship than working yourself to be a better person or more emotionally mature and you'll meet more emotionally mature people. Right, I mean, because you also, that's a good point, because you also learn, like I'm grateful for all the relationships I've been in, I learned a lot from them and studying it

But it was really the work I did outside of it. Yeah, I have to think you grow. Yeah, everyone has to So really like if you want it so the practical side is this is like make a fucking game plan for yourself But how you're gonna do this stuff that involves experiential shit Not just I'm gonna read a bunch of books and send a bunch of podcasts Yeah, you have to do you have to get out there and get the experience. And I like what you said for for the for you guys The men's group getting together getting a therapist, but what if you're like younger don't have resources? You know I'm saying like for like a kid who's like I don't know if I therapy I could how else could you do it besides reading books and I guess I was lucky I could go to therapy

Here's the thing like here's that then get a mentor Everybody including myself you can learn everything for free if you find someone who's a little bit better at it than yourself Right, right and I like finding a couple different better at it than yourself, right? Right. And I like finding a couple different mentors because it could get different kinds of advice and not just, you know, just because something worked for one person doesn't mean it works for everybody. True. That's good.

So just find someone who's a little bit better at you and start having those, you know, discussions or get a group of friends together to kind of talk about this stuff. Or start like you don't do it as naturally. Like now you're a man, man, you're in his 40s, like now you have these group of men, but were you talking about your feelings and emotions 10 years ago, even? I mean, I will, but I,

you might have been. We were like in the game stuff, we were kind of like doing that stuff. Like I think that the purpose, having, it still sound a sense, seemed like masculine work. This is about, you know, sex. So we're like doing it,

but we're really working on all these other parts of ourselves at the same time. So any advice that you wish you could undo that you learn that you're like, oh god I wish like anything like I don't know even sex or No, because it's all like part of the journey right now Well, you could undo but you would like to kind of correct if anyone reads it let's say you're like, oh please don't do that I don't know cuz I get I think everyone's like kill make the decision. I don't know. I haven't read it So I don't know what's right since then so I don't know what right is since then what what's in there?

But I don't I don't think the games like an app., so I don't know what's since then, so I don't know what's. You haven't read it since then? I don't think the game's like an app, it's not a how-to or an app. Is it still as people still buying as, I don't always, I don't always, yeah, it's good. But even the book itself is not advocacy or how-to, it's just like this is my experience. It's a great story. The stuff I learned, and this is why I left it. So it's not even an advocacy book, but I think you, as a writer, it's like,'s like well you present everything and don't hold it back and let people make up their own mind right right

And I think like I meet a lot of people in like different communities who made they started with the game and then Doing the game and then rejected it but it let them into a well that's why I think that's a self-improvement place Or a spiritual place or a lot of those guys that I initially talked to they were kind of like yeah But there were like the spiritual they were kind of had it based in more a spiritual realm than just going out and like, so right, I think it did launch careers, maybe flying a reader early on. And I'm sure, I'm sure like other people went down the dark side and turned it up bigger, do you see bags than they already were? Exactly. They shifted down, they shifted down. So how is it, thing, father?

Oh, yeah, I don't want to father? Oh yeah, that's the best. Here's what's great about it. There's so many things that are great about it, but on the top of what we're talking about, is all the stuff I learned about trauma and how that's created and all the wounds we get from growing up, like I made me such a bad or dead. I just conscious of little stuff,

just the littleest things. I'll give you a couple examples. One is like, so fun, like just doing it right. It's a parent, or you didn't have a done right, or doing it the best you can on making the best you can. Right, because I feel like it's your worst. You can't have issues with you then. They're not going to have the human experience.

Right, but do your best. Right, but by the way, anyone says when people think your parents were perfect, or you think like you had a deluxe childhood, they're signs that when someone says that, there's a sign, there's some real shit going on. Exactly. You're not of a perfect child.

Right, I'm the same, I'm breaking down. So, but like little things when you're upset, I'm like, I'm always like, I mean, those are, but like, don't be sad, cheer up, and now I would never deny an emotion someone's having. So I'm like, oh, you're sad. That what's going on, oh yeah, I understand

or you're angry because you weren't able to play with that knife. I'm sure I understand that you're angry because you couldn't play with that knife. Right? So I'll kind of affirm his emotions versus denying him. Or here's another thing. I became a writer because I wanted to just not go to an office among other things, right?

So I like working just working in my home. But I realize that if I'm in my home working and my child who wants to play, and I'm like, no, I'm working, they're too young to understand that concept. It's a rejection of them. You're making something more important than them. So I got like a place outside my house to work. So when I'm home, I'm 100% with a child when I'm not.

That's great advice. Little things like that. Because you need to, right? Yeah, to have. Right, right. Okay. Yeah, I heard the other things like understanding that they don't, they're not, they don't have a prefrontal cortex yet.

They're not. So when you're take telecharge, it kills me. I see you see so much bad parents in the playground. Like, I don't know what to do. If I, if people have suggestions, tweet me or tweet Emily, like, I just, there's so much bad parents and see like parents just fucking up their child and they're saying, don't do that, don't do that. Stop that.

You're hurting it They all there and these they don't they don't have they let the right of a child is to be spontaneous So if you don't if you want them to be quiet in a restaurant Don't take them to fucking restaurant, right? Don't happen. I don't be loud in the restaurant or don't take them to restaurant, but don't try to control over control them You know where keep them from running around or yelling and screaming. That's what they do That's what they do. And let them have their, it's the one time in life. They can be totally spied for you by doing it.

You're like time going on the shoulder, and especially like in Malibu, I would think that, like you, I don't know, are you probably see everything? When someone's like, stop that, you're just chirping other people, like, no, fucking let them run around. It's like a joy and happiness of a child is not disturbing.

I really think you can't even book next to the kids. I know, maybe I should, right? I don't know, I really think you should. Yeah, I would love to talk. If I could find a way to do it that would really reach the people who are, or controlling always need to be right, not looking at the child, have it's emotional life,

putting their own expectations and my own needs. Here's another big, big thing people do. The job of the parents to take care of the needs of the child, right? Very simple, but some parents think they're doing that but the child's really taking care of their needs, right? They're sad, they hold the child to write, they're anxious, so they don't let the child do stuff so it's to manage their own anxiety.

So a lot of parents get their needs met through the child. Right, now is your experience. Fucks out the child, that's my experience with my mom. Their mom, yeah. So people, it's all about self-awareness, that's what we're talking about. This was really, I mean, I love a week when here, it's child, that's my experience at my mom. Their mom, yeah. So people talk about stuff or awareness. That's what we're talking about. This was really, I mean, a level we went here. It's okay, we didn't talk about blow jobs.

Right. We didn't talk about blow jobs. We do sometimes, but we don't need to talk about show. Here's the deal, here's the deal. I think I can speak for you. I don't need to, they want to hear what you're interested in. They do, and I'm really interested in it. And as you change, they want to go with you.

I'm speaking, so that's where, that's when you said what's going on with me, which we wrote, so Neil has a podcast called The Truth Barrel. Right. That was a, there was a, a colon, it's a truth barrel, right? I don't think it was a colon. No, I don't think it was a colon. Oh, there was your book.

It was a truth. Oh, yeah, that's it. What was it? An uncomfortable book. So we're tied away as book, the truth and uncomfortable book, our relationships. And the truth, the reality podcast with Gabby Reese, which I'm actually going to go do again to get to a sauna for an hour and a half. Right, that that sauna is the truth barrel because it's 220 degrees.

It is literally barrel. Like, you can't lie when you're just fighting your life in there. I can't lie in the Barrow, but we can talk about that how I actually am fascinated by everything that you're saying. And I know I think my listeners are coming long behind the journey,

because I have been opening up, I've been trained as somatic sex therapy lately. I'm doing more body work. Yeah, I've been doing that hands on stuff. It's more of a, it's called somatic sex therapy. It's more of a, it's, we canica sex therapy. It's more of a, it's we can touch but over close. I learned it more to help my listeners, but anyway, I am opening up more to the stuff on the show and I don't really appreciate it.

So, yeah, and I think it's true. Yeah, but here's the thing, and I think this goes for you and everybody else listening is like, you just have to go on your own journey. And if like all your audience knows of you is what you've done before they don't know what you're capable of what you're doing. So if you just keep giving them that thing they want you're gonna keep doing what you've done before. Yeah. Whereas just go on your journey and you'll lose some new ones will come in but like you can't people get frozen in their first moment of popularity. Yeah. That's a tragedy. Yeah. I think that's a good point. Right. I'm not frozen.

No, no, no, you're feeling not because look at us, we didn't know. I know, I love it. This was great now. No stress. Okay, everyone can find you mealsdrowse.com. Yeah, you're correct. The best way, Twitter, with the best way, you like tweets. Yeah, whatever you like, just Google me.

Google me, this will all be on the website. Right. It's actually.com. All right, this was awesome. Thank you, Neil, for being here. Thank you to my amazing team. Thanks everyone for listening. Was it good for you?

Email me. Feedback. sexwithamming.com.