Sex With Emily - Unf*ck Your Relationship w/ Gary Bishop

Episode Date: February 16, 2022

When you keep running into the same relationship (or sex) problems over and over again, what’s the one common denominator? Brace yourself…because it’s you. You’re the thing that carries over from partnership to partnership, which is why Gary Bishop, author of the crazy bestseller “Unfu*k Yourself” decided to write a new book – a tough love spin on self-help. It’s called “Love Unfu*ked: Getting Your Relationship Sh!t Together,” and I invited him to chat with me about it.In this interview, Gary and I talk about how to become aware of our destructive relationship habits, and concrete ways to manage them. He tells me the one simple change he made with his current partner that transformed their relationship, and we go deep on feeling threatened: the fight or flight response that inhibits emotional intimacy, not to mention our best sex. But we also talk about the hopeful side of radical self-awareness, and the opportunity in front of us, when we step outside of ourselves, look at our patterns, and change them – to create room for the pleasurable connections we all want. For More Information About Gary Bishop:Website | Twitter | Instagram Love Unfu*ked Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So for a week, when you are thinking of criticizing them, just try to switch it. And you can even pre-write at the top of the week. These are the 10 things I want to say because that's going to rewire your brain too. But now it's going to rewire your brain looking at your partner, but it's all connected. You actually felt good in the moment and by voicing that and praising your partner, that are sharing your experience, you're going to get more of that, rather than the blaming and shaming which gets you nowhere. You know, you have to be obvious about your love.

You can't be very capara, and you can't be sitting there like helping that someone will step up and love you the way you want to be loved. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. When you keep running into the same relationship or sex problems over and over and over again, what's the one common denominator? Brace yourself because it's you. You're the thing that carries over from partnership to partnership, which is why Gary Bishop, author

of the Crazy Best Seller, Unfuck Yourself, decided to write a new book, a tough love spin on self-help, is called Love Unfucked Getting Your Relationship Shit Together, and I invite him to chat with me about it. In this interview, Gary and I talk about how to become aware of our destructive relationship habits, and concrete, very specific ways to manage them. He tells me the one simple change he made with his current partner that transformed their relationship. And we go deep, unfailing, threatened. The fighter flight response that inhibits emotional intimacy, not to mention our best sex. But we also talk about the

hopeful side of radical self-awareness and the opportunity in front of us. We step outside of ourselves, look at our patterns, and change them to create room for the pleasurable connections we all want. Intentions with Emily. For each episode, I want to start off by setting an intention for the show. I do it and I encourage you to do the same. What do you want to get out of this episode? Well, my intention was just to help you become more self-aware in a really simple way so you can discover any of your unconscious, interpersonal tendencies and start to take steps to

evolve them. So you can have the beautiful relationships and sex you deserve. We all deserve it. Please rate and review Sex with the Emily wherever you listen to the show. Also, my article, Ask Emily, How do you get your partner to go to therapy is up at sexwithemle.com. Check out my YouTube channel for more sex tips and advice. If you want to ask me a question, just call my hotline 559 Talk Sex or 559 825 5739. Leave me your questions or message me at sexwithemley.com slash Ask Emily.

Always include your name, your age, where you live, and how you listen to the show. Oh, you can change your name or choose to remain anonymous. Totally cool with that. Alright everyone, enjoy this episode. Gary John Bishop is the New York Times bestselling author of the self-empowerment classic Unfuck Yourself, Get Out of Your Head and Into Your Life. His no-nonsense, tough love approach to life mastery is the foundation for all of his books, including his latest Love Unfucked, getting a relationship shit together. Gary's urban philosophy has impacted millions worldwide through his talks,

his podcast on Fock Nation, and of course, his wildly popular guides. In his new book, he explains what makes relationships work. You taking responsibility to fix yourself. what makes relationships work. You taking responsibility to fix yourself. Find more Gary at GaryJohnVisip.com on Twitter and Instagram at GaryJohnVisip. Welcome to the show. Congratulations on your new book. And in your new book, you say that the missing piece required in all successful relationships is ourselves. So can you tell me what you mean by that? And the pursuit of a great relationship, it's very much about finding the one, the right partner, the right kind of situation for ourselves. But in my experience, and this is where I really get into when the book is, I don't believe, we're not really clear on who's getting into this thing.

We're not really clear on who's getting into this thing. So what we're out to uncover in this new book is for you to finally come to terms with what's actually functioning in your relationship, right? Like what's actually coming into the table? Because whether we like it or not, you know, we're not a blanks like we don't walk in relationships, you know, kind of burden free and without any views or opinions or ideals of what, how we think this should or shouldn't go. So it's your way of saying, enough of you blaming everyone else, you are the problem essentially. Right. I mean, it can be, you're the problem, as long as you're not kind of relating to that from a perspective of like blame, it's really not about who's to blame, it's really more to get to the bottom of what's

playing out here that maybe I hadn't considered. And that's often the surprising and the difficult work to undertake. I would say yes, it's the hardest work to undertake. And it's the last thing that we all want to do, right? It's the very last work to blame others, to see that we just haven't found the right person, they're flawed, and to never say, oh, maybe I have a part in this, perhaps. Another surprise in part for people is, often, in the beginning, these situations, where we're saying, well, maybe I'm just attracting

the wrong kind of people or the wrong. And there's not traction at play, you're actively, whether you don't wet a van play. You're actively, whether you don't let it go or not, you're actively looking for something that you're, if you like persona can play against. Unless you do that work unless you can take it at a background study, get like what I'm up bringing to the table when it comes to relationships, it'll always be running you.

You'll never have the opportunity to really run the show yourself. Are you saying that perhaps when we often say that this person wasn't right, I can't find the right person. I keep attracting the wrong people. That might be a wake up call as well. Let's go inward. And all of your relationships at that work, there was one common denominator. Mm hmm.

And it would be, I think if I battalion to to ignore that, like how that's played in that. I love what you say in the book about being addicted to being right. This might be one of the things that's keeping us from being in a healthy relationship. Can you talk more about that addiction? Yeah, and it's weird how, like it really is, like an addiction, like we can't stop ourselves like opening our mouths and saying that thing. You know how, like it really is, like an addiction, like we can't stop ourselves, like open our mouths and say in that thing that we know if we say this thing, this is not going to go well, but what the heck, how to come to any way.

And we fail to see that the kind of impact, like, hold up, please, I'm in your relationship, you know, because when you get dog-enabored something and really dog-enabored being right, someone else must be wrong. And not equation, if that's the person you love or you say you love, then that's now a barrier to this thing called the loving relationship. And I think when people are hearing this, it's being right, maybe they're thinking, you can tell me more Gary about these reactions, but I hear people going, but I am always right. And everyone else is always wrong. And everyone else is stupid. And then here we'll do is it work. Like if you're always the one that's right at work,

you're probably hearing this into your relationships as well. So you must get a lot of protest from this. Like what are some, it takes a while to get there. Yeah, I do. Ultimately, I ask them the same question, how's that working out for you? And you'll get the same answer. And then the background of that desire to be right is obviously the avoidance of somehow being perceived as wrong. There's a way that things should go. And there's

a way that things shouldn't go. And you need to be a certain way, and this needs to be a certain way, and this is what I want, and this is all of it ultimately becomes very possessional that leaves you very polarized. You're very, you end up stuck, you end up stuck not only with what you've got, but what you see they have. And it's never, ever, ever a recipe for a relationship that actually works.

I'm not even talking about a fairy-tile relationship. I'm actually talking about one that fundamentally works. It doesn't even work in the workplace, let me just say. It really doesn't because the work is collaboration. It is not everything is so, so black and white. Along the same vein, you talk about self-responsibility and self-awareness and that's your whole thing. So I know you ask readers, how are you managing your own destructive traits? What if you put in place so you can powerfully manage your own hooks and triggers in self-sabotaging ways? But my question is this, Gary, what

are some concrete ways that we can manage our bad patterns and traits once we've identified them? What I get into a little later in the book is I say, notice that when you do get hooked and you do get triggered, when you do get caught up in something, you're following a pathway. And you can really go doing that pathway. And you can really go all the way down into the darkness with that stuff and into a relationship

or at least days or weeks or months of unworkability. You've got to kind of get yourself pulled back from that from time to time. You've got to be aware enough that you realize where this is going for you. And you gotta get reconnected, like reconnected to something else, something like what? Well, if you are committed to having a love and relationship

or a passionate relationship or a relationship of adventure, a relationship of discovery and exploring one another, then you need to get yourself back to handling your relationship through that lens. So to say, well, if I'm committed to loving this person, and I say I'm committed to having love in this relationship with this person, then in what way does myself sabotage or myself destruction tie in with that? Well, it doesn't. And so really, I stopped moments where you're saying to yourself, no, I choose to have love in my life and that includes

stepping forward right now and maybe I own something, maybe a tick responsibility for something. Maybe I say, you know what? You know, instead of this, I'm going to do this with this person. And it really is a big getting yourself back and touch with. Fundamentally, as a human being, what matters to you resonates with you and they'll keep you aligned with the light and the relationship you say you're really after. Yeah, what are some helpful ways? I mean, I always talk about journaling

or having affirmations and just getting clear and having therapy helps. What have you seen, Hopper? What has worked for you? Well, I operate out of this. we have told fashion thing called integrity. And doing and being, I said, it would be. And I don't always feel that way. I don't always feel like I want to be loving today. But, but that is the kind of relationship that I want. And so I think that really caused the significant

breakthrough in my relationship actually many years ago was when I actually stopped expecting my wife to be on the hook for having love in a relationship. Like I, I, I kind of took it off the table for her like, I don't need you to be anyway. If you're just yourself, that's fine. There was this kind of pressure that came off the relationship when there was no expectation of me for her to be anything other than herself. That's the person that I love rather than the person that I think she should be or should have been or could be.

That must have been a huge moment for both of you, like the pressure cooker, like prior to that, I'm wondering what led up to that. Was she feeling like, Gary, I'm never enough for you. And you know, I do this thing and you want 10 more things like how did that? And how did you know that that would be the right thing in that moment? Well, I mean, it was kind of opposite for me. Yeah, it was kind of opposite. I was more like, you just need to be a less than, so less than, like, you know, it was never rising. I put this more like, you know, just settled back for me me and I realized like I was spending my

life and it this is probably one of the most common things in relationships how much of your time you spend arguing discussing talking about your partner being different right and there's a lot of it going on right in little ways and back weeks like you know oh you're great but don't do this or you're awesome but don't do that and if, you're awesome, but don't do that. And if you were lesser, that's a little bit more of that. And I like it, you know, this way, but not that way, which ultimately resolved just as, you know, an ocean of judgment and opinion and expectation.

It was a lot more healthy for the both of us. It was no real crescendo moment. It was really this kind of growing real life. You should have a life about how I was having a bigger say and how this is going than I've come to believe. Well, I'm curious, you guys have been together a long time over 20 years. So I'm wondering now, if you maybe you could give us a snapshot

if you wouldn't mind sharing them, because how it was 15 years ago or 20 years ago and how it is now, how would that moment, what feels different right now? I think what's very different about white and isolation is, and we're like every other couple, right? We don't always agree. We have certain things to come up against in life that are problematic. And none of it means anything of any great significance.

So it's not like, oh, you know, this growing concern for, you know, how my relationship's gonna turn out. Because in that timeframe, what really grunted me was, I'm not going anywhere. And in the background of our minds and our relationships is all too often that little noise like something else,

something better, something different, something new, something playing away. I took that away for myself. Luckily, I have the kind of wife who she was interested in doing that work too, but it wasn't necessarily really for her to do it. It wasn't like, oh yeah, you should take this on the way. I'm taking it on.

So it was really this growing realization that we're both human beings and that we're more interested in having this work than having this be some battleground to be fought over. That's kind of be a big moment. I want to go back to that for a minute. We call here in LA, people say, oh, LA is so hard, because whenever you're dating someone, they're always looking for the BBD or the bigger, better deal. But even when you're in relationships committed, you're constantly like, well, this doesn't work out. I guess there's always something else.

And I'm in it, but I've only got one foot, and a few other toes in, and there's always an out. And if they don't see it my way, then I'll leave. And it sounds like you had this moment where you thought, no, I'm actually moving in. Like I'm here. All my entire being is in this relationship right now. And that was a game changer for you.

Massive because then whatever's in front of my face, like I got a deal with it, resolve it, and emboldened whatever I say I want my relationship to be above. Because some things we get into these spots and relationships where it really just devolves into the most kind of. I mean I can only really describe it as toxic pettiness where you know there's just no room for anyone to be themselves anymore and and there are ways out of it but but the first way out of it is to start realizing what you're doing about that.

Like how we spend so much time looking across the table and not quite enough looking and remember because of that context of lying. I've been running our whole lives, right? Probably a wave. A lot of us from our way from ourselves. I mean, I know I can't seem to be work, but I'm constantly pulling back layers and layers. There's something I've been working on lately is forgiveness. And I know you've talked a lot about forgiveness as well.

And I always thought forgiveness, which is like, okay, I forgive you, and now that's new bomb, but there's so much to forgiveness. It's forgiving myself first. And truly deeply forgiving myself or mistakes I've made or ways I was in present or ways I wasn't a good friend or a good lover,

but also forgiving others, and that you realize it's not just like, I'm doing them a favor, that the weight of caring anger, how much of that sucks the way you're live you. So maybe talk about the role that that's played for you and some of your readers because I know you've read a lot about this too and talked about it. Yeah, I mean, the thing we forget this is necessary because we're so deeply wallowing in this context of blame, like who's the blame?

I'm to blame, they're to blame, this is to blame. I'm this way because of that. They're that way because of this. It's a constant and never-ending cycle of blame. And the same with blame is, blame is actually what keeps you rooted to the past. So it's impossibly free of a past that, where you can tend you to blame. One way to deal with that context and to deal with that

cannot wait if you like a blame is in forgiveness and forgiving yourself, forgiving another. And sometimes like what we all too often do is we think the forgiveness is get something to do with a proofing of someone, something somebody that or a proofing of what I did. It's not about a proofing. It's about eventually realizing that all human beings are operator to some logic that whatever time in the life made sense to them. And you might not agree with that. You might think that's weird. You might think that's this or that the next thing. And it's their logic. And you know, often fighting myself getting there, you know, like I don't know everything that's going on

in the background of every human being, not even my wife who, you know, we've been partners for going on 30 years actually. When you're in that kind of deep relationship with someone and you're still discovering them in a way that you're still discovering yourself, I mean who am I to not forget you? When did I become that guy? And that includes, of course, is your plan to do, forgiving myself. I'm wired that's way, I can be responsible for it, I can own it, I can manage it in a way that's really powerful. And I'm a human being, tell me,

I'm not floating around, I'm doing some existential good over here. Yeah, we all do the best we can, right? With whatever tools we had at the moment, whatever was happening at the moment, we did the best we can with the information we had. And you got to assume that everyone else did too. But I love what you're saying,

kind of the attitude to blame is forgiveness, because it's true, I know I've also done a lot of that. I blame others for a lot of things, but also, I'm really hard on myself. So, for personally, personal, because what this came up for me in reading your work, it was like, it was confusing because in the one hand, I don't think I'm perfect at all. I'm not somebody who always thinks I'm right and I don't always think I'm perfect. At all, but I also blame others and then I'm really hard on myself. So, it just seemed like no one's

winning in my wheelhouse and no one's winning in my world. And if I'm not winning, then, you know, so then I had to do a lot of like forgiveness and healing and then just, yeah, and the blame, I'm really trying to catch myself too. Like everyone is doing the best they can. And typically, if I'm so angry with people, it all grows back, come back to me, not in like a narcissistic way,

but it's like, what am I doing? And it's so refreshing to know that. It's like that homeostasis when you change your behavior, people change around you too. And so there's like so much power and that. Yeah, I think there's another piece that you have to kind of get keyed into. If you look at like, well,

what if I don't, forget about? And a lot of people can say, well, I can love whether I can love we not, forget about. But I think you'd be scraped enough at that. You would see that this is not a positive thing for you. This is not like you're leaving yourself with something like resentment or anger or frustration or whatever it is and it will manifest another spot in your life. I think it's really important for people to ask themselves, if I keep doing what I'm

doing, how does that go for me? And that very often for folks is a real place to start some truth telling on yourself, like, what am I doing it myself by hanging on to this? Because ultimately, that's what you free yourself always, all of that junk. So all that, so you're saying, even just going back to relationships right now, because this is what we're talking about. What I'm hearing is saying is like in relationships, well, they did this horrible thing five years ago. They lost all that money or they even they had an affair.

They cheated. They lied. They would have, you know, and I never forgave him. I never forgave her for this 20 years ago. It's like, how was that going for you? Because you didn't forgive him 20 years ago. You think it's going to get better now. People think that time heals all wounds.

I remember hearing that and it doesn't. Time just, it's not about time going past at all. And I did believe that for a while. It's more about really forgiving, but not just for the other thing. Because I know who I'm going to go, Emily, you say if someone has an affair or someone lies, you can't just rebuild trust on your own.

I do believe in those things. Trust is broken. You need to go to therapy. You need to talk about it, you need to be honest. Like, you still need to do that work, but at least you have to notice what you're dealing with rather than repressing it. And then just, you're like, I'm still angry,

but I'm gonna be resentful because I'm getting sort of some kind of high from being angry, you know? It's all right, it's a destructive pattern. Right, because sometimes, sometimes people are, like the thought of breaking up is a bigger mess than it would be of sticking together. So they stick together. If you've got yourself in the kind of place where you're hanging on to, let's say it was

infidelity or something, your relationship. And I talk about this in the book, I say you have to realize like the relationship that you had without person before that event, that relationship's over. Like that relationship's over. That doesn't mean you say, you can't create something new, but you have to realize that that's over and you have to do the work to bring that to a state of like, you're complete with how that went and how it rolled out. Then you might be able to say to that person, well, I want to have a relationship with you, we need to create something that's new,

something that we're both up to, something that we're both interested in and getting invested in. And that includes this part in the book where I say, no, you gotta manage yourself moving forward. Because if that can a shadow of that spectra arise again for you how are you going to manage yourself how are you going to deal with that rather than just letting me blame you for that because you've said I want to keep this thing moving in a direction where we're

both together then that's a thing called the choice. And you have to embrace the whole of the choice, not just the bets, the all the best. And that can be challenging, but I also want people to know that it's totally doable. I mean, that is a doable phenomenon. You can recreate something new out of the ashes of whatever it's been, as long as you're clear about what has been is what has been, it's not the model upon which you're based with yet to come. All right, we're going to get quick break, but stick around. After workforce sponsors, we're going to hear more from Gary all about how to improve your relationship dynamics.

People have a new opportunity every day to recreate the relationship. But I feel like that's what your books do. They're such a wake up call the way that you write. And it's like, you know, you're no bullshit. And I remember reading when your first books and the airport. And it was like, okay, you know, it just gets you riled up. Like, yeah, I'm not going to take anymore. I'm going to do it. I can change my life today, but you really can.

Like, you actually really can. And in terms of you, you could buy a book, hopefully you will buy his book, but you need, it's really, you have all the tools you need. And that's why I think going back to the first question is like, it starts with ourselves. And if you really want to just think different, you don't need to like study another course.

You don't need to take anymore drugs. There's like literally nothing else to do. You're her walkably equipped. You're remarkably equipped. You are remarkably equipped for this life, right? If you get yourself pointed in the right direction and teach yourself some fundamental things which you can do like something like forgiveness. Like one of the things that I'm able to do

on a dime now is like I was something. And you know, my life was never like that. My life was about hanging onto things and being determined, then overcoming it, using stuff as fuel and all that. One of the reasons why I've gotten so good at it is, I know what it does to me. And it's inconsistent with who I would say,

I'm fundamentally am. I may be wired to certain way and I can be responsible for that wiring but that is not where I am. I'll maybe fuel that way in a moment and I'll realize I'm a fuse to live out my remaining minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years on this planet as that man. I refuse to live that way. I will not do it. And I'd much rather live my life of being a man of compassion, enjoy and and passion and adventure and being bold and being adventurous in this life. Because you know, this is really not a dress rehearsal. There's no, I'm not getting ready for the later life.

This is, that's one. And to think, you know, at the end of my life, if I was to be left with all those moments, so those times of resentment and anger and frustration and even apathy, like I would want those moments back. I'd want them back to give them another go. So now it's my job to remind myself, like, I don't want to be left with at the end.

I want to be left with what that's at the end. Yeah. That's such a great example there about that. Like, you were able to, in the moment, I think a lot of people, we need this skill. Like, I know if I have one more cocktail, I'm not going to feel great to have one, but it's really hard to stop at that moment.

But you're saying is you have a moment where you realize if I hold on to this for another day, then it's not going to serve me well. And here's what could happen. Could you maybe give us an example? Yeah, there's tons of them. I mean, you know, they got three sons and they're all soccer players. They're all very good. My middle son in particular is an elite maybe one of the top in the country And I go watch them play and like any character you're hearts in your mouth because you're watching your child do what they do And it brings it a lot and I can survive Well, he's tough where your children right and

Maybe somebody scoops all the agitation already throw an, she's already throwing elbow in her face or something. And I've caught myself so many times, like shouting something, I, and then somebody else say something, I just look and I'm, and I know what happened. And I know that what I saw was accurate and all of that. And I just go, okay. So just okay. So I just, I'll just, okay. All right. Like I don't, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to sit here and watch this game in a federal anger or resentment. Like, I right, like I don't, I'm not gonna go there, I'm not gonna sit here and watch this game in a better language or resentment, like,

I'll let it go. And it's the same even with my children, like, you know, because again, a lot of it's like survival, it's stuff that comes to the surface when you're at your kind of lowest moments, especially stuff like hang or frustration, like those are definitely very much key then too, those kind of survival elements. And it's always some kind of threat, some threat to you or

some kind of threat to those around you or a threat to your situations. Always some kind of perceived threat. You know, always go back to Sartre in those moments, always go back to like, this just doesn't mean what's going on in my head is like that head. It's just not, it doesn't mean that. This is just somebody doing what they're doing. It's okay. I think those are right. Right. It's a fight or flight. I mean, the problem is with fight or flight, what we're talking about here,

it's slowed down is that we often, the things that we do, they're so destructive, are our reaction that is so quick that we do even realize we're doing it. And so to be able to just be able, I think the power of the presence and mindfulness to stop yourself in that moment and say, okay, I can. Like for me, I breathe something literally by my tongue. Like I literally.

Well, I think, I think there's two things I think those catching yourself in the moment. And I'll actually like what you do when you bite your tongue because it makes you present, you have to get present. So you're present to that physical thing that you do rather than caught up in that train of thought that sent your head. People, something people briefs, other people stand up and go for a walk.

There's a lot of things you can do. Physical interruption till it is important. But the other aspect that I say that people is, it's not the end of the world to fit, you know, if that brain power goes in off you trail after. The question then becomes, is, are you begging off to deal with the impact of that? Are you begging off to clean up your mass including with yourself and go back and go invite to that thing of forgiving yourself. I'm not asking people to be robots or to be perfect. I'm saying people, you know,

with the right kind of work and the right kind of attention, and you can really change your life in a really spectacular way. And it's all doable for everybody. It's not like you're some special case that no one's ever been able to crack. There's stuff that you can do when you don't like to empower yourself.

So, Truma, and you must have, it all of your listeners from all these years, you must have heard from some people who have taken, kind of take your work and make it their own. Is there any common steps that you've noticed people taking? I'm even hearing people just maybe starting on the journey of, okay, I'm going to forget myself, but I'm still angry. Like, what are some ways that you've found the benefit? Any stories that come to mind perhaps? Well, I mean, lots of them, lots of them,

but a common theme for people is realizing that no one was coming to say you know, and no one was going to come and make you happier. Right? Like, being happy is actually your job. And you got to stop waiting for things to change to be happy. But you got to stop waiting for you to be different so that you can be happy. Because those pursuits are generally very internal looking in the way and they're kind of happy

at Emma happy, which is a question one can't really ask yourself if you're happy, right? No. A key one I see across the board is people start to really take on that if they were going to live a happy life, it was up to them. So that was a big thing. And then a second one that definitely comes up frequently is where people start to realize like these persistent, kind of emotional states in the life, whether they're apathetic or they're suppressed or they're frustrated or

whatever your thing is, people noticing that it was a lot less to do what was going on with what was going on around them. And way more to do with their reaction to what was going on around them. And if you can start to see something that was like responses you're having to life is it's happening. And you're really on the right path to start me get away. All right, life's happening. And then there's my experience of life happening. And your experience of life happening is all done to you. It's not what's going on around you. It's all your experience of it.

That's why it's so different for each of us. Yeah, your interpretation, so what you're saying is too, and realizing that we are responsible, but then also our interpretation of events. We also are narrating that along with you know we get to decide doesn't have to mean anything. It could also mean nothing. You could also let go. Those are huge moments. Yeah. Yeah and the interesting thing for me I guess is the variation on all of the listings, right? You can have two people with the exact same childhood or very similar and

come out of it with just a whole different narrative Right, and you end up living the life of your narrative not the life of your past and that narrative is so ingrained with you That you can't tell the difference between the narrative and the past they both seem like they're the same thing to you in your head. And that's why we end up, like you're talking about siblings, you know, siblings of desigrees, adults about what happened in the childhood. And the reality is, inside both of those narratives, they're both accurate. So true. I know I did my brother. It's like,

the weaker up in different homes and you're so right too to say, they're both right. You're both right. Mom was this way to, but it is all true. But then to be able to go to extrapolate and said, well, then what narrative am I creating right now?

But the first you said, so interesting about, something I'm always saying on the show to people to my listeners is, you are responsible for your own pleasure. Your partner's not responsible. They're not going to show up one day, know how to be the best lover to you and the for your own pleasure. Your partner's not responsible. They're not gonna show up one day and know how to be the best lover to you and the best partner to you.

So why, and you talk a lot about this in your book too, like why do you think we make our partners responsible for things that we really should be in charge of in our life, like personal fulfillment and happiness or even sexual pleasure, but why is that our thing? We all do it. Some of the world's greatest philosophers were interested in this, but why do we do? Why do we seek to blame others? Why do we seek for others to influence us?

And for me, it seems like there's this kind of avoidance of being on the hook for something. And there's avoidance of being like being seen to be on the hook for something. And as avoidance of being like being seen to be on the hook for something. So as human beings, we're very much looking for situations to influence us, looking for a situation or a circumstance that will make me feel better. Without ever really paying attention to what's going on, you're literally making yourself

feel better, right? You're literally doing that in a moment. Whenever you say to somebody, you know, our love when you do that thing, you know, I just feel so loved. They're not doing anything. You're having that experience of love yourself. You're generating that. You're bringing that to the floor.

You're making that present for yourself. You're doing that, you're bringing that to the floor, you're making that present for yourself. You're doing all of that. I think part of the struggle we have is you don't realize that that's what's happening. It seems like it's being done on two is therefore we go on this pursuit of seeking it. I like what you said, you know, be a responsible fear and pleasure.

But that includes, you know, stuff like you're enjoying, you know, sense of self and you're own and best of you. And you know, it's a sense of self and you're own and best of you know, sense of confidence and self expression and all of those items, you're an expression machine for a level of growth and you know, all the people we really get like, you know, you have the ability to shift yourself at any moment of time. And once you realize that you are in fact in charge of this thing, like nobody's doing this without you.

I think that when we realize that the more we do notice, when our partners are doing the right thing, the thing that makes us feel good, to tell them, when I've realized it, when more I reinforce things, and say, I really enjoy that. I felt really good the way that you kissed me when you came home from work, or I love the way you touched my neck.

I, that meant a lot that you asked about my day. Maybe feel so seen by you that the more we do that to our partners and we reinforce that stuff, especially if you're someone who leads towards blaming and shaming our partners all the time, I always say try for a week, try for a week, even I was going to say a month, but then it's a month too much. So for a week, when you are thinking of criticizing them, just try to switch it. And you can even pre-write at the top of the week. These are the 10 things I want to say to them,

because that's going to rewire your brain too, but now it's going to rewire your way of looking at your partner, but it's all connected. You actually felt good in the moment and by voicing that and praising your partner that or sharing your experience, you're going to get more of that, rather than the blaming and shaming

which gets you nowhere. Right, I think there's a quote, I can't remember whether it's in this book or not a book, but I said, you know, you have to be obvious about your love. You can't be vague about it and you can't be sitting there like hoping that someone will step up

and love you the way you want to be loved and then being in a partnership with someone sometimes means that they don't always do it in an obvious way and they don't always love you in a way of expressing themselves in a way that even you might like. But that is a big part of the dance, a big part of the dance within a human being

is finally coming to terms with that this is a human being, not something out of a movie or a book or something you saw somebody else in a relationship with. This is an actual living person with a past and their stuff and their stresses and their strains and their survival and they're all of that stuff. And then you start to get a little bit more related to it,

I guess, more like in the realm of the cosmos, like to beings just making their way through this life and trying to work at that. It's like that Ram Das quote, like, we're all just walking each other home. Right? It puts it so true. Like, we're all just sort of in it together. We all have not only those, we've our traumas, we talk about ancestral trauma now that they say go back 78 generations. So if you're with somebody that's like 16 generations of trauma, good luck. You know, you might as well feel as that you are in this together.

You are walking each other home. Can you talk more about identity relationships? What are those and why we get into identity relationships? Yeah, all right. Well, it's a little opaque at the beginning. You have to get in a bed with me. But we're mostly subconscious beings. We're not conscious. We're just not conscious, right?

We're mostly working on a auto pilot. You go through your life, reacting, it responding to things in a way that you always do. And it's the same in relationship. So if you try on the idea that there's something about you, each of us is human beings, like a little home, a little gap, a little space, that we're never quite okay with That we're never quite okay with.

We're never quite settled with. And it could be something simple, like, you know, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not lovable. No one really cares. And we make our way through life. These aren't big deal breakers. These aren't big massive things that are right,

but for there, and we're living a life and those things occasionally come up. sometimes in certain areas of a life stay become more exacerbated. So I invite people to try it on and as Paul can say try on the idea that your partner is actually chosen by you to highlight that and so this is someone that you can go into this relationship with. The death thing will consistently come up for you and you'll have to keep overcoming it and overcoming it and overcoming it, how you overcome it. You overcoming it, you overcome it by being the you that you've become. You overcome it by becoming this more of this identity that you are. So you'll double down on all of that. All the while, that little gap never quite gets felt.

Now, the problem is, of course, that that's the same for your partner. And it's all too often, two people try to work something out, but they don't, in the background of their own thoughts. And the foreground of their relationship, in belief or not, what people would call a match made in heaven is all too often a match made in hell because it really is not about what's in the background for both people, even now they might be encroached and seduced by what's in the foreground.

It's way more about what's going on in the background for both people. And in our relationship as they really started on COVID and get to know each other, it becomes more and more and it rises more to more the surface and becomes a massive bone of compension. For example, when you up to go off the first thing you said, it's also relatable saying, like, I'm not smart enough. So you're saying, let's say that's my whole, that's my gap. Like, I'm a great person, I give back, I'm good with my family and my kids and my life and my friends. I'm good. Sissed them a good boss. But I ultimately feel like I'm not doing enough. I'm not maybe that's my thing. I'm just never can quite do enough. What I'm doing is wrong. So you're

saying I might be attracted to somebody who is constantly reinforcing that I am not doing enough. Now I wouldn't say that they're actively doing it for me. That purpose, it's that you're consciously getting reminded of it right through that. I'm getting triggered. But maybe the flip side of that is

they help fill me in ways that I need to be filled. We're talking precondition. This is subconscious, right? So my whole thing is that I don't feel good enough. So I'm falling in love with someone and I'm like, oh, I feel so loved by them. I feel so held so because initially you do feel great. But what you realize is that I don't feel good enough. And so I'm falling in love with someone. I'm like, oh, I feel so loved by them.

I feel so held so because initially you do feel great. But what you realize is that this is so nuanced, but some of the things that are doing that make me feel whole is probably a numbing. It's probably a, they're using words that make me feel enough, but they actually are doing stuff that's kind of destructive. Or maybe they're doing a lot of actions that are good,

but they're words are, you know, so it's confusing. I mean, ultimately just means I haven't done enough work for myself. All right, well, he was, he was an old and white guy to try to say his own ball. At the beginning of a relationship, it's very much in that attraction stage, you know, like you're attracted to this person,

maybe physically, maybe intellectually, maybe emotionally, maybe, maybe circumstantially attracted to this person. And those initial stages, whatever way they are is usually the solution to what you're trying to overcome. So whatever way they are like, oh, this is, that's what people say, this is the one right, like there could only be one in a plan of like that. But anyway, you know, it's kind of like you're looking at this person and it's like that issue,

that thing with you is solved. It feels solved. Well, that's the flip. This is not my issue here. I'm just saying in general, though, just so we all know, I figured it all this up, but we're saying so that's the flip side of the identity relationships is that you feel like it solved.

Okay, got it. So let's, okay, let's go with that. So you feel like it solved, yeah. Right. And then you get into it and you realize it's actually not so and that thing is still there. But now because you're in a relationship, relationship tends to grind all of your incomplete junk to the surface. Okay, that's just how that is. The lawyer guard goes down, the lawyer cannot let some of that stuff up. It all comes, you know, falling out of our mouths. Then you'll start to see, my name is not going anywhere. I don't feel this anymore. Then the solution that you once looked at is now the obstacle.

This is not the problem. Like, this was the solution that once upon a time, now it's the problem. Like, that's with the solution at once upon a thing. Now it's the problem. And, you know, that's why I insist in the book, you know, you really, like, working on yourself and coming to terms with yourself and really begging at some of the dirt. It's so critical when it comes to actually having an authentic, real genuine, grown-up relationship with another human being, rather than some regurgitated upsets from their past. One of your books is Do the Work, but when we say Do the Work, I want to drive this homeland and I hate it, it's work, because we're talking about the work is going to set you free, but where do we start on the path?

Let's see, we haven't done any work yet. What does Do the Work? Can you give us a little bit? I always like to make things very simple for people. The work itself can be layered and complex, but the pathway has to be simple. And the first thing I ask people is, okay, well, just pick at some part of your life

that you feel is F. As it work in for you right now, stop there. Like what is it? Specifically what doesn't work for you? And you might say, well, relationship, stop working for you right now, stop there. But what is it, specifically what doesn't work for you? And you might say, well, relationships don't work for me. More kind of relationships. And what has been the issue, what have been the problem. And then if you set aside all of the nonsense

like about why your relationships might have ended, which people can explain to you, I've nauseam, right? Like just layers and layers of light, all this general. I say, well, who were you in it? If you tell yourself the truth, who were you? I had a conversation with somebody recently, and it was very revealing to them but who they were in relationships

with independent and cynical. Yeah. Right? Now, that's not a great recipe. Right? For love. Like I'm independent and cynical their relationship, they saw that they were independent and cynical. And I asked this person a really simple question, I said, when did that start? Like, forget love, just tell me when did you start being really independent and cynical. And they tracked all the way back to a situation from a childhood when you had this experience and they got stuck in that path and could not get themselves out of it because of the spending so my friend looking around

with a pain and attention to who was walking the path. And so that's often surprising for people, like people who say stuff like, to this way relationships are on the two that way. And this is why it doesn't work. And people take advantage of me. I'm like, no, that is not what you're looking for. You gotta go three layers of gun on that. Those are great places to start. Those are the love relationships

and from all your relationships, a great place to start to see some of the turns you've taken as a human being. So too, we have to go back to that. I always, I always joke in this is not to knock moms, but it's not, if it's not one thing, it's your mother. But if it's not one thing, it can also be your father. It's your childhood and your parents did the best they can. They loved you to the best their ability. Your parents are not bad or wrong. They're human, just like you. However, there's a lot of great information in your childhood.

That is. And the other thing that I want to give people is, and I say this can say something to people, your life wouldn't be different if your childhood was different. And they're like, oh my gosh, no, no, no, I'm telling them if I've never happened, this would have happened. I know I don't understand that. And I get the logic of that, the reasoning of that. But human beings are by nature designed to create a disconnect with a parent at some point in the life, why, so that they can then justify going off on their own pathway. So at some point in your life, whether you realize on your own, you are wired to make your parents wrong for the job they did. That's how that rolls. And the question you realize that and see it, yeah, the question you see that, the better for you, you know, the more you start to see like it's less to do with you,

with more to do with the, you know, like the existence of human beings on the planet. Yeah, it's something we have to go through, the disassociation for our parents, and some of you will never come back to it, right? I know that with that was your experience with your mom Gary. Well, we'll have fewer minutes. Gary, thank you so much for being here. I need to now ask you the five questions, the quickie questions. So you don't have to think about them too much that we ask all of our guests, okay?

Sure. Sure, quickie, right? Okay. And this can be anything. Here we go. What's your biggest turn on? My wife. Biggest turn off.

People being inconsiderate. What makes good sex? Adventure. I love it. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships. It's not as heavy and significant as you think it is. It's an opportunity to go play. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? Did it's okay to be yourself? Thank you, Gary. Those are great, great answers. I so appreciate you. Thank you so much. A best of luck on your book and on your

journey here and thank you so much for spending time with us. Thanks for having me, great to be in this conversation with you. Awesome. Yeah, it was really good. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Mike. Have a great night. That's it for today's episode.

See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sex with Emily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure.

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