Sex With Emily - Unlocking Your Sensual Self A Woman's Guide to Pleasure

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

In this episode of the podcast, host Emily Morse is joined by guest Pamela Madsen to explore the transformative power of "back-to-the-body" retreats for women and couples, focusing on reclaiming pleasure and improving communication. Pamela, a retreat leader with over a decade of experience, details a 7-day program emphasizing self-pleasure through clothed genital work, addressing issues such as vaginal pain and low libido. Positive outcomes from the retreats include increased self-esteem, improved communication, and better consent negotiation. The retreats also involve sexological bodywork, including genital mapping, fantasy exploration, and elements of BDSM and tantra. Men’s participation is discussed, highlighting the positive impact these retreats have on couples. The conversation also covers practical techniques like the "lotus lift" meditation and sensate focus exercises for embodied self-expression—even for those unable to attend in person. Emily and Pamela address common challenges such as body image issues, societal pressures, and communication barriers in long-term relationships. Pamela Madsen IG: @thepamelamadsen  Join the SmartSX Membership : https://sexwithemily.com/smartsx Access exclusive sex coaching, live expert sessions, community building, and tools to enhance your pleasure and relationships with Dr. Emily Morse. List & Other Sex With Emily Guides: https://sexwithemily.com/guides/   Explore pleasure, deepen connections, and enhance intimacy using these Sex With Emily downloadable guides. SHOP WITH EMILY!: https://bit.ly/3rNSNcZ  (free shipping on orders over $99) Want more? Visit the Sex With Emily Website: https://sexwithemily.com/ Let’s get social:  Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sexwithemily/  X https://twitter.com/sexwithemily Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sexwithemily TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@sexwithemily  Threads https://www.threads.net/@sexwithemily   Let’s text: Sign up here https://sexwithemily.com/text  00:00:12 - Women's Retreats & Couples' Impact 03:19 - Sexological Bodywork: A Woman's Journey 06:43 - Female Anatomy & Desire 12:14 - Embodied Movement & Wellness 15:04 - Embodied Arousal & Lotus Lift 18:07 - Body Connection & Sensations 20:22 - Couples Rediscovering Sexuality 25:46 - Couple's Intimacy Coaching 32:17 - Pleasure, Aging, & Body Image 47:50 - Overcoming Anorgasmia 54:26 - Guest Contact & Retreats Full show notes here: Sexwithemily.com

Okay, so let's talk about one of my favorite ways to upgrade your solo or part of play. It is the Hera by Jeju. It's a sleek, powerful rabbit vibrator that's basically the best of both worlds. It's incredible for internal stimulation and those rumbly, mind-blowing clitoral vibes Jeju is known for. Here's what I love. The external ears are powered by the same motor as the Mimi, which you've heard me rave about before. I love the Mii Mii. And the internal arm delivers deep satisfying vibrations right to your G-spot. It's super soft, ultra quiet, and it moves with your body.

So whether you're using it solo or with a partner, it has this feel like it's made just for you. And honestly, it's kind of a no-brainer. Everyone loves the Hera. And right now you can get 20% off the Hera using code EMILY20 at sexwithemily.com slash Hera. That's EMILY20 for 20% off at sexwithemily.com slash H-E-R-A. So if you've been looking for a toy that delivers powerful blended orgasm

with thoughtful design and serious quality, this is it. So go treat yourself. You deserve it. The biggest lie ever told is that people over 50 don't have incredible sex and multiple orgasms. And if you want a little bit of help in our medical profession, then it's available for you.

And it's an exciting time. Let me ask you something. Do you ever feel like your desires just gone quiet? Like your sex drive took a long nap and forgot to set the alarm? Well, you're not broken and you're not alone. And you're definitely not the only one who thinks arousal is supposed to just magically happen. Well today's episode is all about busting the myth of spontaneous desire and exploring what's actually possible when you create a new

deeper relationship with your body. I'm joined by the incredible Pamela Madison. She's a sex and intimacy coach, founder of Back to the Body, and true pioneer in helping people go from erotically numb to erotically alive. Pamela and I dive into what low libido often means, hint, it's not hormones, it's usually boredom, how to tap back into your turn-on, and why the right kind of touch can be not only erotic, but profoundly healing. And yes, we're talking about her retreats. Two words, pleasure demos. You'll want to hear this. Plus, we answer your questions from how to feel more confident in the bedroom to whether you can really show up for your partner when

you're not orgasming to how to have incredible curvy girl sex. Before we dive in, I want to invite you to set a quick intention with me. So listen with an open heart. And if this sparks something in you, you know where to find me. All right, let's get into it. Tell me about your back to the body retreats. And then I want to hear about how you also work with couples because people always we've talked about it, Pamela, but I think it's great to hear from both of your voices about your retreats. So we've been doing back to the body retreats for 10 years. They're very unusual in the world and that they're your retreats. So we've been doing back to the body retreats for 10 years.

They're very unusual in the world and that they're immersion retreats for women. We do full body exploration for the women. It's not surrogacy, it's not tigrin intimacy. We're now calling it the back to the body method, which is based on the lineage of sexological body work where our practitioners remain clothed and we have gloved hands when we work with genitals.

It's a place for women to drop in and really explore their own bodies as opposed to having to please a partner. But what is it to receive and not be in service? What are all those things that people are talking about? What if they have vaginal pain? What if they maybe have orgasms or maybe they don't, they don't really understand it, maybe there's more.

And what we have found is that women who come to our retreats have a very definite outcome. They feel better about their genitals. So they have genital self-esteem, yes! They are more likely to initiate sex when they get home and in their lives. We know that women who come to our retreats reduce body shame, they reduce trauma.

They're better able to ask for what they want. So better communication skills. And they have learned how to name their desire. And the one thing consent, of course, they've learned how to negotiate consent. And I think one of the most beautiful things is that is that they heal relationships and competition with other women. And women come for seven days.

Many women come for as many as five retreats. We are running retreats during COVID. They have to be vaccinated. They have to show up with, we're like, there's so many names. You have to be vaccinated. You need a day three COVID test. And then we're gonna test you.

At the retreat, we have purchased tests and we COVID test. So, you know, we've been running safely, God willing, through COVID. And what I've been seeing, Emily, is a the women asking the men to come, which is very different than when the men ask, yeah, when the men call me and say, I, I want my wife to do a retreat or I want to do a couple's retreat. It's often very hard to bring in the woman. Some to the part of trying to get the part of a threesome. Like you gotta be, it's gotta be her idea.

So when it's her idea, When her idea is a good idea. The men come and they're really brave and the men have had lots of different feelings around this. Do you want to talk about some of the reactions we've gotten from the men? Yeah, I think that, you know, some of the points have been kind of twofold, right? The men are like, what have you done with my wife? Like, she is a whole new human, which is accurate for some of the women we've worked with. It's like from the time we've started with them to now,

they're vibrant and alive and sexually curious. And it's like an energy that's different. And so when their husbands come, it's like, I want a piece of that. I want a piece of the cake that she had. Right, I want what she's having. Yeah. So just to back up, Amanda,

I was on one of your retreats and I want you to explain for a minute the sexological bodywork part of it. And I want you to explain that if you could just give an example of how women like the before and after. So sexological bodywork is an active receiving. So it's not like a traditional massage

where you're laying there and being touched. It's really active. So the practitioner is really involved in asking you to move and be present, to be aware of your breath, to be aware of your sound, encouraging sound. Often these things sound small, but often they're discouraged. So it's encouraged to be quiet and keep your voice down.

And, you know, we're really encouraging people to speak up and ask for what they want and explore through my hands, basically. So those can be really important. The other thing is we keep our hands clothed. It can include the full body. So it can include genital touch. It doesn't have to, but it can.

We do explorations in sensation. We do explorations in different body parts. So genital mapping, body mapping. We've done explorations and we do explorations in fantasy. Role play. Role play in games, how to bring play into your sex life. Some of the practitioners, actually most of us, know some element of rope bondage.

So we bring in elements of BDSM and tantra. So it keeps going, it goes the gamut and then it begins with a woman actually connecting to her vulva and identifying her arousal. And so there's a whole menu of where we go, but we start really simple. So if you feel like, wow, this is too advanced for me. No, every woman starts where she is.

And we start with just connecting you to your arousal and what does that feel like? And how do we use erotic energy? And this is a kind of a matriarchal society. Each woman has a female safe port and your in sisterhood where there's no competition and the men are supporting. And so they are about seven days long.

You're teamed up with one practitioner and one female safe port to this full transparency. So nothing's really hidden, but your sessions are private. Men always keep their clothes on. They don't get in contact with clients after retreats. We have very, very strict ethical boundaries, and that's really, really important to us. Women may start here,

and then when they're done with us, they're like in the orgasmic Olympics. Right. Seriously. Back up, can you explain the mapping, the body mapping? Because I think that's a really important part of this practice, because it does start with, I get to know your vulva, ground in it, take a look, look in a mirror, but you go a little bit further

than that with the mapping. Can you talk about that? Well, if we were to, I could do a whole hour of genital mapping with someone, right? And that might look like, you know, naming the parts of this is your outer labia, this is your inner labia, this is your introitus to your vagina, this outer part is your vulva, this is your mom's pubis, you know, a lot of times people don't know the names of their part. They don't, they don't. I see that. They didn't learn, right? And so even identifying internally,

this is your G-spot. Also, how does it feel if I put a little pressure to the left or to the right or up or down? And it's slow. Like it's a, really what you're talking about is like, you're sitting there with a glove, you're doing it, but there could be a mirror and you're looking together and you're actually showing so they can become more I suppose connected. And understanding that your clitoris has legs

and that every woman is built differently. We're like very advanced plumbing systems you know and that the clitoris as delicious as that that little bump is is just the tip of the iceberg and helping women find their literal legs. And you know women will say to us, Emily, like they have no libido. They don't have any desire. And you know there's lots of reasons for that. One of the reasons for that is they're bored. I'm just going to name it. It's this bored, I am so bored. Like you may love your partner. name it, it's this board, I am so bored. Like you may love your partner, you may, you know, just, I can't masturbate one more time to whatever it is, I, I'm just over it. And so what

the retreats do for women who are feeling that they have low the veto is it actually kind of wakes them up a little bit, takes them out of their comfort zone, puts them in a safe place. And all of a sudden, they're erotically alive. And you know, you don't always get to tell your partner what you want. You don't know what you want or how to tell them either, right? I think that's a big, big point. That's a big, yeah. Just across the board, men, women is, it's like, what do you want to discover today? What do you want to explore? I don't know. And then it's like, well, here's a menu of all the things. And they're like, Wow, I didn't

even know that X, Y, and Z existed, or were an option or that I would be interested in that. And so sometimes it's just having the menu, and also like the permission and the space to try it. And yeah, yeah, also, like the possibility of being like, I didn't like that. It's like, okay, moving on. Well, that's a big part of it, I think, is getting women when they initially come is to, first off, so what we're saying is like an introduction,

get to know your body, but then also just the act of saying, I like this, I didn't like this, because so much of sex for many women or many vulva owners is it can be more passive, or we just say yes to things because it's easier than saying no, we think. And so we don't even know what we're feeling because some of us go numb, we just check out of sex. So this is like the process of really being connected and embodied. So you aren't just giving up your power like that. You are able to speak up. So that is part of the

big practice, right? To get like epicurean touch. Like, you know, people who actually know how to touch a woman's body. And you learn. The next part. Right, so you learn, oh, that's what that feels like. How do I ask for that when I get home? And then we do, you know, as you know, and we do live demos, which are huge for the women.

Because then they get to see what's possible. They get to see how you can move. They get to see how you can ask for what they want. And, you know, I would love to go back to the whole idea that sexuality, male, female, together, apart, is an evolutionary process. And me, in my after 50, I'm the hottest I've ever been in my entire life. I mean, I am using testosterone, which I didn't take for the beta reasons. I took for metabolic reasons, muscle tone. And, um, my body was changing after menopause.

So we can talk about that. What's true on testosterone. And I take a pellet. It's putting, putting the flesh of my tush scared me a little, but it was like no big deal. And, um, I've been having, I've been having sex dreams, Emily. I've been like having orgasm in my sleep. Wow. I mean, how much are you taking? I've taken the pellets too. Have you? I don't know how much I'm taking. I imagine like, not a lot. So the pellets are bio identical hormones that you put into your body with a pellet

that lasts about three months. Yep. And then you go back and get it again. So you're having and you're having sex or you probably haven't had sex. I'm surprised you don't have sex dreams though, just because I guess you're all of your work is sex. So maybe sometimes you're just dreaming about food. Exactly. I dreamt about sex, but I haven't had four deaths in my sleep. No, I haven't either in years.

Now having extraordinary orgasm in my sleep. And also my my sexual appetite. How would you describe it? Strong. I have a strong sexual appetite that just keeps growing along with my clitoris. So my clitoris is growing a little on the testosterone and I, it's like having a brand new toy. How long have you been on it? It grew.

This is my first. Okay. So it grew and just. It grew a little. It's more prominent and which means I have more surface area. Yeah. To play with. So yeah, it can be. You gotta go to your doctors, you gotta get your test out, you gotta get checked out. It's not for everyone. But I think yeah, I think that we just and the problem is for women, you have to go to find your own providers, your insurance might

not cover it can be more expensive. And I'd love to see more options for every woman. But speaking of every option, so what does it take from the retreat? So going back to that, you always talk about women being more embodied, which they are, but how can people connect this on their own? Let's say they can't come to a retreat. How would you explain the feeling from where people start and where they are now? The goal is to become embodied, but some people don't even really understand that. And then maybe we could give some tips for what people can do on their own to get started. Something that I encourage my clients to do just outside of the work that we do together

is to practice breath work, to practice things where they can emote sound. Also, I really love like ecstatic dance or five rhythms dance, which is like a really organic form of movement, which is not about partner dancing. It's really about self-expression and finding your own movement.

I really encourage that for everybody. You really kind of are there and you're like, I'm finding myself being self-conscious of my movement. Like, can I allow myself to move the way that I wanna move? And I feel. Right. And that's something that we encourage on the table as well. It's like, if you were to move organically to my touch,

you know, like what would that feel like? What would that look like? So it's kind of the opposite of what we talk about a lot is performative. When we're more performative in the bedroom, like I'm gonna move this way because I think that's what my partner wants. But we're saying that what we're talking about here

is this deep grounding into what you actually want, what your body needs and what your body is reacting to in that moment, rather than being in your head and thinking what would be sexy right now, what my partner would want, which is a total reverse for reversal for so many of us. And there are a lot of tools, Emily. So I know they're going to put up the link to our website. Of course. We're not done talking. Yeah. If they're set up for the newsletter,

they will get a free video instruction on how to do Lotus Lift meditation. So, you know, that's my signature thing. It's a, like name drop over, it's featured it twice, two years in a row. And it's really simple and it's a really great way for women and men, because you've been using it with men too. So I do the Lotus Lift. Did we do it? Yes. So you took your hands, okay, your volva. Oh, and you rock. Oh, I love the Lotus Lift. Yes. Back to back with a partner, but you can do it on your own. And then feeling your arousal, feeling your embodiment, and I will coach people through it.

I have members of our community, women do Zooms together. And so I work with Deepak Chopra's Three Soul Questions. Who am I? What do I want? What's getting in the way? And it's a beautiful way to start your morning, get arousal moving. And you get arousal moving in your body. You are fighting depression, you are fighting anxiety. You are moving serotonin, your love hormones.

You wanna feel embodied. You don't have to masturbate and have an orgasm. Okay, it's just cupping. Women don't know the arousal principle. Men don't either. That just being in arousal is an embodiment and is a creative life force energy and it's a wellness tool. Your sexual energy is wellness. And so you can get those tools online. We're giving them away. Okay.

We also have back to the body practitioners, which people can buy a series and they can work online through Zoom with a practitioner if they're not ready, come to a retreat. Great, okay. I love that you're providing that. It's backtothebody.org. Yeah, there are lots of resources, lots of writing.

You know, we're living in a different time. People find their way. What's exciting though, Emily, is that our Santa Fe retreat is sold out and our Mexico retreat is sold out. And our Costa Rica retreat only has a couple of spots. Our privates, we're sold out through March 2022 for private retreats with Fortnite.

Plan ahead because guess what? April comes sooner than you think. Maybe they'll start with that. So I want people to get to you. But the Lotus Lift, I remember this, I forgot that's what it was called, but I was sitting back to back with a woman and I remember it's just the cupping and like talking to you. It's like literally connecting to your vulva and thinking, or you could do with your penis. You could do with a penis partner and a vulva partner could be sitting back to back and the practice of with your clothes on. So I always say get up, masturbate, but yes, you don't even want an orgasm, but I get

it too. Like I was talking to someone yesterday who said to me, oh, but I, it's usually 23, but she's like, I never want to orgasm and I don't care. Or she's never had an orgasm. Yeah, that's part of it, but I don't want to masturbate. And I don't want to, I said, but I love the lotus lift is like an in-between because it's really like we walk around sometimes not loving our bodies all day, feeling like it's another thing on our list, but just to cup it. I'm cupping right now. You guys can't see me. And just say like, good morning.

And feeling that because it is energy. It is our life's force. It is our creative center, which I think a lot of us don't. So it's truly that. We're asking people go from people calling in like, how do I have anal? But then you're like, have you ever really connected or taking a look at your own genitals? And it's such a powerful practice. I think that piece, Emily, is really big, right? We're, which is like, um, and we've been seeing this a lot,

which is like desire and congruency with the body. Talk about that. Which is- Yeah, talk about desire and congruency with the body. It happens with couples, but it happens with individuals where somebody is like, I really would like to have anal, or I really want to explore this extreme BDSM scene. And then it's like, their body is so far removed

from that fantasy that there needs to be a ton of other work, which let's start with connecting with your body first. Because if you have no connection to your body, none of that is gonna resonate. You're gonna, it's gonna hurt, or you're not even gonna feel it for that matter. Right. So that piece I think is really important

is to be able to connect with your body and you know, how do you do that? Sensate focus is a really good exercise to do that with. And that's just like, you can do it yourself. I feel the sensations in my hand. Right, just rubbing your hand. This is sensing focus, which is a classic practice of just a little, yeah.

Yeah, but people don't know, I mean, we went to school, but like, yeah, just literally, what am I feeling right now with my middle finger rubbing on my, you know, forefinger on my other hand? Like what does, and it's so hard, it's a presence and it's like, oh, that does feel good. I mean, that's how you start. And it's true. What you're saying is that so many of us, when you just said we don't feel anything, I think we should normalize that too, because so many of us don't feel anything during sex. It's like a numbing or it's a disassociation. And so I think that's a lot of this work

is that we're talking about is that you don't have to go through life like that. You can wake up your body. At any time. The other thing we're talking about saying on the couples work for a moment. What we found with couples too is that they pay out of each other's no bank.

Oh, I love this. Tell me more. Well- Now we can go to couples, yeah. No bank. Well, I'm sorry. But it was just an incongruency. So like I could say,

I could say something like, well, I think that you don't like, I think that you're frightened of hurting me and you don't want to spank me. Have you ever wished you could ask me your most personal sex or relationship questions and then actually get an answer? Like, how do I stop overthinking during sex? How do I ask for what I really want? Or how do I reignite the spark in my relationship? Well, now you can. I created SmartSX to give you exclusive access to me and to other top experts I trust, so you can finally get real honest answers,

personalized guidance, and the tools to have your best sex life yet. We've got live events, Q and A's, weekly tips, and a supportive no shame community where nothing is off limits. Sounds like exactly what you've been needing, right? Go to any app store, look up SmartSX, or click the link in the show notes. I'll see you there.

Your best sex life awaits you. Let's be real. Juggling a sex life and a business? That's a lot of positions to keep track of. When I launched Shop Sex with Emily, I had to figure out everything from product pages to payment systems and trust me, it was not sexy. What I needed was a partner like Shopify.

Shopify is the powerhouse behind millions of businesses including mine. They've got stunning templates, AI tools that write product descriptions for you and the most loved checkout on the planet. That purple shop pay button? Yeah, it's kind of a turn on. So if you've got a big idea, maybe it's lingerie, lube, or literally anything, Shopify is your backstage pass to building it. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash SWE to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com slash SWE your business your way with Shopify.

And I go I'm not afraid of that. I'm I'm down to spank you. Let's try it. You're down to spank me. Let's try it right now. Yes. So a first time on Sex with Emily. So, what's true is that we have stories about what our partner likes and doesn't like, and what our partner is willing to do and not do. And then we have shame around asking it and then what if, and so having a sex educator there to facilitate those conversations. It's tremendous doors for couples to actually find out they may have the same kinks.

They may actually have the same desires. That is no idea until they were at a retreat and often it will be like day three. It's always day three. Day three is the day. Day three is the day. Day three is the day. Yeah, everything breaks loose and everyone cracks open. And that's why emerging is so important is because people have to relax into this container.

They have to feel safe. And so it's beautiful. And it's really beautiful to see couples, no matter what age you are, but focusing on midlife couples, and we'll just say 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, having a brand new, maybe after 30 years of marriage, having a brand new relationship with their sexuality and that it's possible. Yeah, I mean, I want to get into that. I think so many of us just resign. We're like, well, it's never going to happen. It's been 20 years. We've been together 30 years. It's not going to happen. So I love that you do focus on this age of like your 40s, 50s. I mean, that's where your work started too, right, Pamela? When you had your breakthrough in your book, which I love, Shameless, How I Ditched

the Diet, Got Naked, Found True Pleasure, and somehow Got Home in Time to Cook Dinner. I know your book has been transformative for so many people I know. Okay, so I want to go back to what you said. So we just covered the part about the couples coming in, and they clear the no bank. They're like, I didn't know you wanted to be spanked. Oh, okay. Because the fact that you even get them there is great. So they work with someone that helps them tease out what they actually want.

I know we always send people to our yes, no, maybe list on our site, which I think has been helpful for so many couples. And that's just a document that lists a bunch of yes or no's or maybe. So I'm thinking when you're working with couples, you clear out all the, you try to clear out the resentments or the no's and then do you help them then kind of, I guess it's different for everyone. Is there any commonalities though, between these couples that you've found kind of reconnect? Well, I guess one of them is probably they both have to want to because sometimes there's

couples where one doesn't want to and one doesn't. I think that's like the biggest thing is you can't show up to a couple's retreat if you don't want to be there. Right. No. You know, and it makes our work easy or I'm sorry, easier. You know, when the people that are there are like, we both want the better of this collection of people. We want to be a better couple. We want a better sex life. We want a better

relationship. There's a willingness to try, a willingness to discover. Without that, it's kind of pointless. They also learn honestly by watching court and I like how, because we teach as a couple. So how do couples, even though we're not like real life couples, how do couples communicate? How do they fight? Like we're there together for five days, sometimes eight days with a couple.

Sometimes we get annoyed over the dishes. Of course. Right. So there's also a model of how do we talk with each other? How do we negotiate with each other? How do we make it sexy? A lot of couples, they may have explored polyamory or swinging or other things, but a lot of these couples haven't.

They haven't. I would say the majority of them that show up probably haven't. They probably are your been together, they had great sex in their 20s and they had kids, things happened. They're in their 40s or 50s and they're like, now what? We both love each other. I don't want sex. She doesn't, you know, right? So it's those kinds of things. And so you're... You get to play in the energy of two sex educators who are helping the game alone. So we do a lot in games and we teach a lot in play and we play with them. Now the couple is interacting with each other.

They touch each other, right? And we play alongside them. It's sort of like, almost like two-year-olds with building blocks and we encourage them and stimulate It's almost like two-year-olds with building blocks, and we encourage them and stimulate them with our words and action. Sometimes or a lot of times, I or court, depending if it's woman leading or male leading, because we take turns,

like who's the active receiver here? Who's the passive receiver here? How are we playing this game? So you're like their coach. Are you saying like when they're like, they're actually having sex or they're doing something sexual and you're there like as their coaches?

Like are you telling her to breathe? Kind of like a, right? Like case by case, but we have done that, you know, like kind of like the whisper in the ear type things. Court will be like the angel on the man's shoulder. Like not like really right there, but in and out of the space and offering support or we'll be doing a similar exercise side by side.

Okay. Maybe the man really wants to learn how to do really good general touch, but only knows what he knows. Right? He's been going looking, digging in there looking like he's looking for change. And maybe the woman doesn't know how to encourage your partner. And so I'll lay next to the woman like with some space, right? And let's say courts teaching the partner doesn't

have to be a husband. And, you know, it's pretty graphic work. I mean, I'm kind of, you know, the women there are pretty vulva open. Gotta be, yeah. And court is teaching and the man is following. And I'm also coaching her. How are we breathing?

How are we telling him? How are we telling our guy that this feels good? How do we move? And so it's some monkey see, monkey do. It's for couples who haven't been around other couple energy, it's very exciting, but in boundaries because we're not going to be having- No, we're not having to force them.

We're not having to force them. All the boundaries are intact. And of course, if they need our help, we will glove up and show a partner how to do something. Like we'll stop whatever's going on, you know, partner, girl partner or boy partner or non-binary partner, you know, need support, we'll stop, wash our hands, put on our gloves and go help.

But usually it can be done. I mean, this is just, yeah. I really like what you're saying here because it's like this, I just keep going back to this as one area of our life where we, you know, people are probably listening, oh, that'd be so shameful or I couldn't imagine my partner doing that.

But it's like, why? We see how, I think everyone listening to this show knows how important sex is. You probably wouldn't be listening if you didn't think there was something to learn. But yet with sex, there's nothing really available for that kind of coaching. We think I should just magically know how to touch a vulva, how to touch a penis, how to have anal, all of it. But where would you learn? And we all know that porn isn't going to be the way to teach. So I mean, I really appreciate the work that you're doing and just thinking about how many people

could really benefit from this work once they get past the shame and oh, I thought that I should know this because I'm a man or I'm a woman. No, we're not taught this. In fact, we're taught misinformation. It's a little bit like, you know, when you go to the spa for the first time and you're

like, oh, I got to be naked with all these people. And for the first five minutes, you're like self-conscious about it. And then you forget that you're naked because everybody else is naked. It's like, it just kind of falls away. And I feel like it's a little bit like that with us and our work. It's like, there might be some reticence. And even with, with me, I'll just speak for myself. Like, sometimes I get nervous.

Like, I'm using my body as a teaching tool. She's using her body as a teaching tool. There's some scratchiness around that. With people we're just meeting, or even still people that we know really well. Because many of our couples come back again and again and again. Just like the retreats have a 97% return rate,

the back to the body retreats, the couples retreats, the same, where the couples are booking far, far in advance. This is like putting them in a whole new way with each other in their relationship. And I was remembering, Emily, that people learn in different ways. And some people, they learn visually, some people learn from a book, and to have somebody there to talk to. So like after a

session, we'll do group process, but who also like take the male identified partner off, and do a private talk with him and I'll talk with her. And we can we process and we find out the obstacles and support the couple in coming together, so to speak. So it's been a journey. And I think, you know, the resources are beautiful. And what's even more beautiful is permissioning more and more people.

And I am tired of hearing that I'm all washed up and I have no libido, or my husband and I, or my wife and I, or partners that we're over and, you know, 50 were dead. It's a lie. It's just all a lie. The biggest lie ever told is that people over 50 don't have incredible sex and multiple orgasms. If you want a little bit of help in our medical profession, then it's available for you. It's an exciting time. It is an exciting time because of all what's available for us now? Yeah.

And you guys, this work is legal. Correct? Yes. Well, we're not touching, you know, like we're not having sex with our clients. It's one way touch. It's one way touch. And this is sex education. Yes.

Hands on sex education, which makes so much sense. And with the couples, the couple are there together. And it's legal for court and I to touch each other. And so using ourselves as teaching models when necessary, that's perfectly legal. And the couples are touching each other, and that's perfectly legal. And also maintain certain boundaries

that some couples really want to keep. There's a lot going on out there and I really encourage, I mean your show is so amazing and so groundbreaking in how it is showing people opportunity. And I want them to know, are your listeners to know that the opportunity doesn't just belong, you know, to the 20 year olds and the millennials are getting older. Let me just let those millennials know you are aging up guys. Yeah, right. And the boomers are still booming. And so we have a large population of people who have a lot of pleasure potential.

A lot of pleasure potential. This really is about pleasure. How do we look at pleasure as a society? And how do you encourage people to look at pleasure and to put more pleasure into their life? I mean I think first of all our society, Western society or United States for that matter, you know we really encourage people to find their pleasure, to find their success, to be in their joy and then not too much. Not too much, but don't talk about sex. Not too much joy because that would mean that you're selfish or narcissistic, right? And it's, so it's this kind of mixed message.

Like, you know, you go after it, but be humble. Better be humble about all of it. Right? And so it's like, well, how do you, how do you be humble and seek your pleasure at the same time? It's like, they're a little bit opposing identities. They are, yeah. And I think that's like a real cultural thing that we have to deal with in the United States

specifically and in the West. But I think it's noticing that that is a cultural script and choosing it anyway. Yeah, just let me think about it because pleasure potential, I think we all have so much potential for pleasure and we just don't pick ourselves up. We have splits.

Self-imposed ceilings. Yeah. Courtney and Pamela, I would love you to help me answer an email from a listener. This is Diana, 33 in Santa Fe, Mexico. Two bedroom retreats? Sold out, because she could come. Maybe she'll go on the way list. Fe, Mexico. Two bedroom treats sold out, because she could come, maybe she'll go on the wayless.

Hey, Dr. Emily, I'm wondering how to get comfortable having sex and feeling sexy as a plus size woman with a man who is healthy. I need some advice. I want to be present and enjoy my body, his body and sex in general, but I find it hard to not focus on the weight, extra weight and my body perceived imperfections.

Also looking for good sex positions for women. This has been holding me back from exploring sexually and having sexual experiences and I'm ready to shift it. Now I know Pamela that you, we all still have body things. It's gonna happen through our lifetime, but you've gone through a lot of this. You spoke about this in your book. You do live demonstrations and you're confident.

So I've seen Pamela, I've seen a lot of Pamela. And it's beautiful. So tell me Pamela, how would we advise Diana here? Oh, I wanna take a big deep breath. You know, holding our self love and our self acceptance in one hand and our shame and disappointment in the other hand. And just knowing that it's not one or the other. Yeah. It just isn't one or the other. I want to speak about in general terms. So he's becoming like the rope artist of the century over here.

He'll see that. I'm trying. He's trying. I'm studying. He's studying rope. And so last night he was showing me some ties and some things that he was doing. I was really curious about it. And court had me like opened up, tied up on a board, post your bed. And I was, my legs were just like really up there. I mean, I was, I was, how would you call it? Spread.

I was spread. Okay. Okay. And I was cur I was, how would you call it? Spread. I was spread. Okay. Okay. And I was curled up, which meant that I couldn't play to the male lens. I couldn't like slap out my belly and stretch out and sort of like soften my roles. Okay. And I was very aware, here's the self acceptance artist, right? I was very aware of these three very large rolls of fat on my belly. While he was being magnificent

and and showing me a wonderful experience, I was very aware of my belly fat. And at some point I just sort of had to acknowledge, okay, we're having a little belly fat chain. Okay, there it is. Hi, belly fat. We've had this conversation before. And then I had to go, well, he doesn't seem bothered by. He's not bothered by that belly fat that's there.

And I'm having a good time and obsessing over the three roles was taking away from the possibility of my really experiencing the pleasure that my body had to offer. And so then I had to put it down. So does that make sense? Yeah, so what you're saying is, let me walk this through.

So in the moment, you didn't say hello, you didn't say it out loud, although you could have with court and it would have been fun, probably. It would have broken laughter. But in your mind, you were like, hello. And then it was like, because we often, even if people aren't worried about their bodies,

they're worried about a million other things in the bedroom. And so I'm always kind of speaking about mindfulness, but I love what you're saying, Ysir, I love that your example, Pam, I know you were a kindergarten teacher, right? No, you started, I always think about that. I'm like, this is why she's so good at talking to everybody. But it's like, really, it's like, hello, hello.

Okay, I'm gonna put you away now because court's doing something here and I feel this is my time for pleasure. You actually had like a conversation with yourself and in that moment, you were able to go back and be embodied, be in your body and receive this magnificent gift from this beautiful man who's just there for your pleasure,

not looking at anything that you're looking at, you know? So, and again, it's not like you won't have to do that again. Like maybe tonight something could happen, but it's that process. When you were saying you hold it left hand, you hold in one hand, you hold acceptance in the other hand, you might, your criticism, they're always sort of there, but if you could get that acceptance voice to be a little bit louder and kind of trump the negative voice more often, you'll have a little bit less struggle.

But it never goes away is what we're saying, right, Pamela? Because you've been talking about this for years. It doesn't ever, it doesn't go poof. But that's how you could quickly move through it, I suppose, is by saying, I deserve this moment of pleasure. It's about me. Nobody was running screaming from the building, okay? I also want to just say from my perspective,

and just to answer this woman as well, can you allow your partner to enjoy your flesh? Okay, tell me more about that. Can you not deny your partner their pleasure in your flesh? So I can find pleasure in a lot of different types of bodies. And some of those bodies are fleshy bodies. And some of those bodies are fleshy bodies and some of those bodies are thin bodies. Some of them are female, some of them are male.

I can find my pleasure in that, not just with my eyes, but my hands. And so to encourage people to find pleasure, not just in what they're seeing, and also to see past just what's in front of you, but to see the overall connective experience, right? Right, so I didn't see belly, I didn't see your belly rolls.

See, this is my belly rolls. Right, but I love what you're saying here about that moment that, again, this goes back to our society, and maybe it's so focused on a certain body type and that we have to be perfect and it's all the time we spend in the external. But in the moment there with a partner, you're saying to, what we're saying here to Diana is allow your partner to really relish and celebrate and love all

of you. And that comes back to receiving, like allow that to happen as well. And I think it's because we assume, like you said, Pamela, he didn't go running from the building. I think as women, we often assume that, oh, they're gonna notice it from our bodies to like,

oh, I have a razor burn or I left, I have a pimple or they noticed my left boobs bigger than my right. And we think of all these things and it's like, who decided that we're against this perfect standard? I mean, I guess it's what we're seeing, you know, all media. I mean, this is the oldest, you know, the oldest debate, but it's, it still lives on and it pisses me off. So more people need to hear this and take this in and say, like, what, there's also

the opportunity to let your partner love more of you. It would be Emily when you partner like when he just said that I thought my body take a breath. I saw you. Yeah, I saw you. My body just sort of went. Oh, that feels good to hear. So having your partner verbally adore your body, you know, and to say, you know, it is just so sexy having you just spread open like that, like both your holes are like right there and that's what I'm seeing. I am loving to squeeze your flesh right now. It's so sexy in my hands and grab that big badass or those skinny bony asses of yours, you know, whatever you've got, right?

Is it if your lover can offer some adoration. I think that, and that's also something- It's so powerful. If it's wanted in back to the body sessions or in the private sessions that we do- We do that. We do that. Like, would you like me to reflect how I see you?

Would you like me to give you words of adoration, Right? And so that might look like, you know, your vulva is so full and so pink. It's beautiful. Do you know like how beautiful your vulva is? Right? It could be that. And that's really important to hear from a partner. Like, this is so fucking... Sorry, I didn't mean to say...

That's fine. This is... No, you're fine. But that even made me relax. You're not even looking at my Volvo right now. You know, that made me think... But that's not messy or icky or pervy. So it's context. So if the context is set, now I'm gonna talk about like retreats and a practitioner. If the context is set, this is your practitioner, your educator. And he says, would you like me to offer reflections? You're in a context, he's not like seeking something from you,

not gonna take from you. He's just offering to be a mirror. And so that you can start to feel what it feels like to have your body adored because most of us don't believe it. And so we need practice in receiving adoration. We need practice in receiving adoration. We need practice in receiving love. We need practice in receiving gifts. We are so good at giving.

Both of us are so good at giving. I can tell you, Emily, you are so beautiful. But then if you were to say to me, Pamela, you look so great. I'm like, oh, well, thank you, I just. You do look great. I was waiting till the end to tell you that. But we brush it off instead of like having a moment and saying, well, thank you for seeing me.

I actually feel pretty great today. You know, we don't It's always like that's a great dress. Oh, I got it on sale Not that's a great dress. Yeah, I I spent money I didn't have because I wanted to do this hot in that dress like Embracing a little bit our joy our own generosity not just for you, but for ourselves bit our joy, our own generosity, not just for you, but for ourselves. I think that's such a great point there because we brush it off. It's like that humble thing, like don't be too out there. We want to be, don't be too bragging. You got to be more

humble. You got to, so how do you say thank you? If I say thank you for this compliment, then they're going to think I'm full of myself. So it really is that dance. And what I like, what I like what you're saying here too, is too is that it's okay to ask our partners for that, that we need adoration, but then we also have to learn how to take it in. I think we all need it. I often see people when they say, well, I want my partner or I'm nervous because a partner goes down to me and I'm afraid they don't want to be doing it. If you actually with someone who wants to be doing it, I always tell them, say, if you're going down your partner, tell them that this is equivalent of that. But I love what you guys are saying

is sort of the equivalent of saying to your partner, babe, I'm not going anywhere, lay back, I have all night. Because the second we know that our partner actually wants to please us, like, oh, you're gonna go down on me all night? Well, then I'm here for it. So it's almost like, I saw you like audibly, viscerally relaxed when he said that. So I just

think the power of words and not saying this is forever, giving you guys a lot of options. They could talk about it. They could go to retreat. They could just decide that they're going to share some affirmations could all really be what could be the thing that helps couples get unstuck and reconnected. You know what the whatever they choose, you have to do it. Like you have to actually, you actually have to do something. Like I'll run webinars, I'll see the same woman, like she'll show up to every webinar in the same sweatpants and the same Uzi chair in the same sweatpants and the same Uzi chair with her same story that you need 17 pounds to lose before or the right moment or when Mars isn't in retrograde

but it always is. And so there is always gonna be that obstacle. And so it's when you decide that I've wasted enough of my life. I've wasted enough of my life. I've wasted enough of my life, not having what I want and it's gonna be risky. It's gonna take time. It's gonna take some money.

It's gonna like take me a little uncomfortable to find the pleasure I want. And then you do it. And it's like, holy, holy moly. Like- You do the work. You gotta do the work. People aren't willing to do the work.

Well, I have another question here. One more question from a listener. This is from Abby 33 in Illinois. And this is just reminding me what we're saying here. She says, Dr. Emily, I'm having a hard time having an orgasm. She's just, she's 33. I've never had one in my life.

I would call myself a people pleaser, a giver, and I always want to make my husband happy during our lovemaking. It worries me that I'll never experience having an orgasm I hear people talk about. My question is, if I never have an orgasm, is it okay to be content in being a giver instead of desperately wanting what I need and crave? So she's never had an orgasm. She's a pleaser. I would tell her, you can do the work. Have you masturbated? Have you, you know, well, how would you guys answer that? I think she answered her own question at the end.

She said, is it okay to give this up? And obviously she wouldn't have asked that question if she felt that it was okay. I think it's not okay for her, right? She's identified that she wants this. She desperately wants this. And so it's not okay for her, right? She's identified that she wants this. She desperately wants this. And so it's not okay, period. She should ask her partner to help her discover that

and maybe invite her partner to have a session that is just for her. Right. Just for her pleasure. Like at their house, just say, babe, tonight's all about my pleasure. All about me. Go down on me. You know, you make love to me, but it's for me. I'm directing you. I'm asking for what I want. This has nothing to do with you, ma'am. You are my tool tonight.

Right? Then maybe- That's a leap. That's a leap though. She's never had an orgasm. I think that's where everyone listening to this, if you are a pleaser and you feel like the sex is never about you, it's totally okay to say, how about tonight's about me and tomorrow's about you. And that's a lot of the work that you're talking about on your retreats and the work that you both do, Pamela and Court, is allowing people to kind of get, to embody and to actually experience the feeling of receiving without feeling like, oh, but let me do this for you. Oh, let me, that you wouldn't did this for me, let me know. It's like, no, it's about receiving, receiving and not having to give.

You know, our work is somatic, right? It is body centered. And it's so easy for me to say, just ask your husband to, you know, and it's like, you know, there's a ton of, I'm sure, body stuff that's connection, emotions. And so to even say those words can be really challenging. And so that's why sometimes it can be really helpful to have someone to go to someone to coach or to go to a back to the body retreat, where it is just like, we are here for you, period. This is not about me. I'm here for your exploration. Like we're doing, like you want to have an orgas not about me. I'm here for your exploration.

Like we're doing, like you wanna have an orgasm? Let's figure out how to do it. Well, this is what, yeah, this is the work that you do. So maybe Abby can- I'm gonna make some available. I also wanted to suggest that everybody, all you listeners buy a massage table. I own stock in none of it, okay?

Get a massage table. Start with giving each other out, of course. Start with giving each other massage. What a massage table allows you to do is have full access to the body. You can climb on a table, you know, all kinds. You can have great sex on a massage. I love, I have a massage table now and it's amazing. So I'll have like a partner come over and he's like, I'm going to set up the massage table and it's amazing. So I'll have like a partner come over and he's like, I'm gonna set up the massage table, will you finish work? And then I'll come out and I'll have the massage table

and the oil and the can, I'm like, great, you know, and just receive, it's literally game changer. And it's- Get it out of the bedroom. Yeah, keep it out of the bed, right. If you can get a massage table, it really helps you stay focused and you have more access. I love that idea.

Something really intentional about that, like you have to set it up, you have to access. I love that idea. Something really intentional about that. Like you have to set it up. You have to make the space for it. There's something like intentional. We're creating this ritual space for ourselves, which is really important for couples. Yeah, I think that's all great. And with Abby, I think what you said there about it being a somatic experience, there's so many experiences that we are keeping ourselves from. So she might think, I could never say that. Having shame or maybe it's something from childhood. We don't know, but there's a lot of layers that people have to go through

to be able to have that conversation. But I guess what we want to say to Abby is that we don't think it's okay to be content being a giver instead of desperately wanting what you need and crave. No, we are telling you that it's time for you to erode into the show. That's a great first step. And I mean, I don't know what you're really,

I would even have this conversation with your husband, maybe even show him, maybe play this for him. Cause I'm certain Abby, that if your husband wants to be a good lover to you and wants you to have orgasms and pleasure. And I can't imagine a husband reading that and saying, oh yeah, babe, it's totally a contempt for you to be a giver, let's go.

Now, if that's what he says and you play this for him, then we need to talk offline and Pamela fight a retreat for free. I'll pay for it. But I'm just saying, like, don't you think that her, like to me, that's the ultimate, I think that she's probably thinking maybe he won't want to or he's gonna shame me for it.

I don't know. I don't know. You know what, men or women, like- I know it's hard. What partners want to know what trends you want. They wanna know how you're being touched. Like, you know, when I'm touching a lover, I'm gonna know like, is that the right pressure?

Does this feel really good? You know, how can I make this feel better? And to teach couples how to have that conversation while keeping it hot, because it can be really hot. It's a hot experience of getting to know it, getting to discover each other's bodies together. Oral is actually a really great lesson, right? This is how I like my cock sucked.

This is how I like my pussy eaten, right? This is how I want you to do it. Let's let's play. Let's play. Right? Right. If you think about it like that, like we're just gonna play time, right? It takes a little bit of the pressure off of it. So it's like we're gonna be playtime for you tonight. Let's see what you like. Yeah, have fun. Like, I want to know. I want to know you give me step by step guidance on how you want it done tonight. Let's see what you like. Yeah, fun. Like, I want to know you give me step by step guidance on how you want it done tonight. It's all about you. Like that could be really sexy and

fun. It doesn't have to be this like, no, to the left to the left, you know, if you agree on it ahead of time. It's a fun game. It's a fun game. We got the loops here. Let's play. We're gonna find your orgasm. You know, hey, let's go rather than like, he's feeling like, oh, I've never given you an orgasm. You know, so all the issues and all the things that come up make it fun. It's a shared experience. Pamela and Court, I have to ask you each the five questions we ask all of our guests. They're quickie questions. Okay. So you reach and go back and forth. So first I can start with Pamela. What's your biggest turn on? Quick answers.

I want to say right now it's Court. Me too. And you Pamela. Okay. Court, what's your biggest turn on? What's my biggest turn on? Right now, control. Okay. What's your biggest turnoff? Lack of attention. Biggest turnoff? Deodorant. What makes good sex? Being willing to play. Court? Being embodied and having time. Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships? It's gonna get better.

Same. What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex? They can have the best sex of your life at any age and they can start at any time. The things that scare you the most are the things that are probably gonna be the most exciting. Love it.

Great answers. Thank you both. Okay, tell me where everyone can find you and we'll put this all on the show notes. They can find us at backtosbody.org. Even though Court and I are booked right now through March for privates, I have other teams working so they can email, and if you want to be willing to plan for the future,

because I recommend it. They can check that out, sign up for the newsletter, find out about the retreats. We are accessible. You can find me at the Pamela Madsen and court at the body box. At court box. I'm sorry, say it again.

At court box. At court box. Yeah. And there's a whole team of people who want to support you and give you lots of information about what's available now from your home or get on an airplane with us. Just get vaccinated. Thank you both so much. Thanks for all the work you're doing.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Sex with Emily. If you love the show, please like, subscribe and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, share this with a friend or partner. It just might spark something. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, TikTok and X. It's all at Sex With Emily. And I've been told I give really good email.

So sign up at SexWithEmily.com for free guides, articles, and more ways to prioritize your pleasure. Have a question about sex, dating, or relationships? Call my hotline 559-TALK-SEX, that's 559-825-5739, or leave a message at SexWithemily.com slash ask. And hey, was it good for you? Email me anytime at feedback at sexwithemily.com. I'd love to hear what you're thinking.