Sexe Oral - Le grooming avec Joliane et Maitre Gauthier-Gingras - Il avait 30 ans et j’en avais 12 - Le Pédopiégeage

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Les propos exprimés dans ce podcast relèvent d’expériences et d’opinions personnelles dans un but de divertissement et ne substituent pas les conseils d’un.e sexologue ou autre professionnel de la santé. Cette semaine sur le podcast, on reçoit Joliane accompagnée de Maitre Gauthier-Gingras. Elles sont venu nous parler de l'histoire d'horreur de grooming vécue par Joliane.⚠️ AVERTISSEMENTCe podcast aborde des sujets sensibles, notamment le grooming, la manipulation en ligne et l’exploitation des mineurs. Certains contenus peuvent être choquants ou déclencher des émotions fortes.Si vous ou quelqu'un que vous connaissez êtes concerné(e) par ces problématiques, nous vous encourageons à demander de l’aide auprès de professionnels ou d’associations spécialisées. Plusieurs liens seront à votre dispositions plus bas si vous en ressentez le besoin.Prenez soin de vous et n’hésitez pas à écouter cet épisode dans un environnement où vous vous sentez en sécurité. 💙Informations importantes:Le Directeur des poursuites criminelles et pénales (DPCP) : https://www.instagram.com/ledpcp/?hl=fr Le DPCP possède une ligne d’information juridique gratuite pour les personnes victimes de violence sexuelle ou de violence conjugale au Québec. Celles-ci peuvent obtenir gratuitement de l’information fiable et pertinente sur le processus judiciaire criminel, le traitement d’une plainte à la police et l’autorisation d’une poursuite criminelle.Une procureure spécialisée dans le traitement de dossiers de cette nature est disponible pour répondre aux questions des personnes victimes et des intervenants qui leur viennent en aide.Il est possible de joindre une procureure spécialisée au 1 877 547-3727, du lundi au vendredi, de 8 h 30 à midi et de 13 h à 16 h 30.Le DPCP possède son propre balado nommé PROCUREURS qui offrira un regard inédit sur le quotidien des procureurs au Québec.À chaque épisode, un procureur fera le récit d’une histoire marquante de sa carrière et s’ouvrira sur les décisions difficiles et les émotions fortes qui accompagnent bien souvent la quête de justice.Le balado sera disponible sur notre chaîne Youtube Directeur des poursuites criminelles et pénales - YouTube.Centre d’aide aux victimes d’actes sexuelles : https://cavac.qc.ca/ Ligne téléphonique d’information à l’attention des personnes victimes de violence conjugale et sexuelle : https://www.quebec.ca/nouvelles/actualites/details/elargissement-ligne-dinformation-gratuite-processus-judiciaire-criminel-personnes-victimes-violence-conjugale Podcast sur la pédophilie avec le Dr Joyal : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIYGoHMbKGU&t=7s&ab_channel=SexeOralPodcast----Le podcast est présenté par Éros et Compagnie Utiliser le code promo : SexeOral pour 15% de rabais https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/ Les jouets dont les filles parlent: https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/page/podcast Pour collaborations: [e-mail] Pour toutes questions: [e-mail] Pour suivre les filles sur Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sexeoralpodcast Pour contacter les filles directement, écrivez-nous sur Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexeoral.podcast/

You can listen to Sex Orale one week in advance and without advertising on Amazon Music. It's available with your Amazon Prime subscription. Today's podcast is presented by Erase et Compagnie, and we have a promo of the never seen before that we're offering you right now. So, from March and April, if you book a demo in one of these two months, with the code, very important, book une démo dans un de ces deux mois-là avec le code bien important sexe oral tu cours la chance de gagner une journée avec nous ici à un enregistrement tabarouette à que tu vas être avec nous tu vas pouvoir nous écouter tu peux inviter une amie ou un ami il n'y a pas de problème tant qu'elle soit agréable et donc voilà sur le site Heros et Compagnie, you'll get a demo.

So the demos, by the way, it's really just fun, it's free. Hey, did you forget something? Not only are you there to assist in the registration, but you also receive a toy from our range. It's true, thank you! So you'll have to go back with your friend with a sexual toy.

So if you book a demo, it's live right now. And the draw at night is done live on Instagram at the beginning of May. So we can't wait to meet you here in the sex orale studio for a 15% discount online on eros.com. Have a good podcast and good luck. A production of Studio SF. Today, on the podcast, we have received Juliane and Master Jean-Gras Gauthier, who came to talk to us about Juliane's story with grooming.

When she was young, there was a man, older than her... Really older. Anyway, I think you're see, the grooming is on it. Maître Jean-Groret is here to talk about the judicial process that followed. It was a moving episode, but we'll let you discover them. Good listening. A moving but very important. Good listening. but very important. Have a good one!

A little trigger warning before we start the episode. This podcast is about sensitive subjects, including grooming, online manipulation, and exploitation of minors. So if you know someone or you are concerned by these issues, we strongly encourage you to ask for help from professionals. Several links will be at your disposal in the description if you need them. Take care of yourself and don't hesitate to listen to this

episode in an environment where you feel safe. Hello, Jean-Yann, hello, Master... Jean-Gras. Jean-Gras. Jean-Gras Gauthier. Jean-Gras Gauthier, perfect. Thank you for being here today to share with us what you have experienced individually and together. We can't wait to get to know you and all that. So thank you for being here. You've known each other for... two years?

Three years? A little bit more, yes. A little bit more. Three years now. Yes. Okay. Just to warn you, you have to have your hand... like, your mouth is on the mic.

Just like... If you want to... I have a foot. Yes, that's okay. Okay. That's good. Like, the mouth with one hand on the microphone. Just like, if you want to... With one foot... So, do you want to talk a little bit about your story directly? And are you comfortable with us diving? Yes, we're already starting the same thing.

Well, basically, we were going to talk about grooming today. Basically, I started something when I was younger. In French, I think we translate it as a trap. It's the action of an adult who will use a bond of trust to manipulate a teenager to sexually exploit him. I think that a large part of Quebec, the way it's going, is an adult who will be in a relationship with a teenager.

And in the end, that's what happened. To put the context a little bit of how I got involved in that situation, my mother took care of me all by herself, all her life. She had a lot of qualities, but to be a mother, let's say there are things that she didn't have at all. So I never really received love from her. I never really felt that I was in my place. It was just me and her, our little bond.

We moved all the time. I had a hard time making friends. The only people I really connected with were my teachers. And I was always lost in my books. Basically, my mother, I think her love language was the acts of service. But when you're a child, you want to be held in your arms. You want to say, I love you, I believe in you, you're beautiful.

And I really never had that. The words I had were more... to really feel like a burden for her. And it really makes me feel sorry to talk about it, but since it's all about the trigger, I don't have a choice, because my mother, I fixed it later. And everything is beautiful now. But when I was young, it was really, really, really difficult.

And part of that was the financial burden that made me feel a lot. So basically, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. You know, she was on social media. And I feel like I was really doing a lot of guilt for that. That if she can't work, it's my fault. That if I didn't have nice toys, nice clothes, and I never had Christmas presents, it was my fault because it was my fault that she couldn't work,

that she had a backache. I was really young. I felt the pressure of having to help her. She was parented. So basically, at 9, I started to make plastic bags. I received a big, big box with everything. I had to close the table. I think it was 100 bags with all the plastic bags

that I was going to carry at the door. I was making myself miserable payments, but I gave it to my mother so that we could eat. And after that, when I grew up, I took my gardening classes. So from 10 to 11 years old, I worked like 5, 6 days, nights, per week. And I always gave my mother the money to try in the oven, I in the oven. I didn't feel it. At the end of primary school, I was 12 years old. It didn't start well for me and her. Our relationship wasn't great.

When I didn't work, I was at the library. I really liked reading. I was always reading a real book, but I didn't have, I was at the library. Because I really liked reading. I was always reading a real book, but I didn't have money to buy my books. So I was always there. And at some point, they received computers. We had the right to go on it for an hour if we were writing. So it was my first... My first internet connection.

It was there. And at that time, they were talking about You Look Good, really big. I'm not sure if... It's for sure, Lisanne, you know that. I think I've already used it, but I knew the name. Yeah. It's an dating app? It's not an app.

Yeah, it's like a website. It's been a long time. You put pictures and you could meet people. It's like a social network. Maybe a little mix between Tinder and Facebook. You literally put a picture and people rated if it was beautiful or not. Oh yeah. And that's it.

It's simple, but yeah. And I was very shy at school. I needed validation. Nobody ever told me I was very shy at school and I needed validation. Nobody told me I was beautiful. I put myself on that application. It's a craving for love and trust. I was approached by a person who told me at the beginning me she was like 20 years old. I didn't see the problem. I never had a male model or anything. How old were you at that time?

11, 12. I was in 6th grade. So the person started to write to me. We learned to get to know each other. Finally, she's not 20 years old anymore, I'm not too sure, 22, 23, it doesn't bother me. We talk, we get along really well. And I feel like I finally have a friend for the first time in my life. So it was really precious.

It was a man. Yes, it was a man who was in another city. Did he know your age? He knew. Yes. And finally, as we talk, he's older. Honestly, I think he was between 25 and 30. I'm not sure of his real age. I'm 27 years old, but I can be wrong.

He was saying, why did he always come back at his age? How did he come back to his age? How did he come back to his age? I don't know. Maybe he went fishing to see what bothered him or what didn't bother him. At 11, if I saw a... We think everyone is old, so an adult is an adult. I would have seen someone 20 or 30 years old. I wouldn't have necessarily been able to tell the difference. So I don't know if I would have realized it when I went to... Because the goal was eventually to see myself in person.

So that's it. So basically, every day, I was doing my job. I went back to the library, I was reading, I went on the computer and I talked to her every day for several weeks, months. Then it ended up turning into more adult conversations. So he started saying that he had feelings for me and that he would really like to go down and see me. So towards the end, sixth year, so it's for sure that I was 12, he went down for the first time. How long had it been since you two talked? A couple of months maybe.

So he left it... Yeah. It could have been a long time. Yeah, yeah. So you could have faith in him. Yeah, that's right. I had a lot of trust in him. He was my only friend. Did you have any doubts at that time?

Or were you a little scared? About whether your intentions were good or not at all? I had never had... I have a friend who talks about relationships, about love, sex, etc mom, she was always alone. And her way of talking about it, if you don't need that, a man in life, you have five fingers. She was really pro, I'd say the drummer forever. And even when I had my situation, it the one who explained to me how it worked.

So that's when the trust bond was intense and I didn't have anyone else. So he knew that it wasn't going well with my mother, that I wasn't able to have any friends. And when he came down for the first time, he had borrowed the Miatoro from his father, an impressive car, a convertible, for me, which had been in the 97s since I was born. So with his beautiful convertible shirt, he took me in and took me to the woods. We had our first sexual relationship together. When he brought me home, he gave me 40 dollars and said, «Oh, it's your mother!» I told him everything I wanted to help financially.

Since my mother already gave her a lot of money, with the gardening and the bags, she didn't ask questions. She didn't realize that there was nothing wrong. She just said thank you. So it was the first time. And then, in the end, you have a sexual relationship with him? And then, did you become a little in a relationship with him?

Did you feel that he had something more than just sexual relations? How did you feel afterwards? Well, honestly, I feel a little disassociated. Even if I think about it, I can see from the outside. I don't see myself, I only see the top of the tree in the forest. I can only see myself from the top, so I don't have much time. I just couldn't see myself from up there, so I didn't have time. I wanted physical love. Nobody would ever take me in their arms.

It was disgusting, but he touched me. Did you feel like, bad to feel good? No, I really didn't see it as normal. It was just for once, I had what I wanted. How long did it last? It lasted four years. It was a big spiral. There were a lot of mistakes by adults around,

that made it last that long. Can you tell us about it? Yeah. Because it's important. There are mothers who will listen to this. I'm listening to you right now, and it can really help other people. So thank you so much for talking about it.

I know it's really hard. Thank you for the platform. You're really good. And if you need a break, you say so. It's good, I put myself in the water. So basically, it lasted. That's it, we met again. They were going down quite regularly.

For me, it's been a long time. And the notion of time, if I'm able to able to sit down because I remember I was at school. So, since I was always changing schools, that's just why I'm able to put dates and ages, because otherwise it's really, really blurry. But you know, the times after he was going down, he was more organized. He was always renting a room in the same motel next to my village. So it was no longer in public, it was no longer in the city. And it was really, really better organized. And we still continued to talk to each other every day.

And he was really, you know, on that, who was playing that I was really mature for my age, that I was beautiful, that he loved me, that it was worth it to make the road to see me all the time, all the time, and that, you know, if he could help me with my financial difficulties, I would do it all the time. So it continued for a while. I saw them again during the summer between the 6th and the 1st year of high school. And basically, the 1st year of high school,

it really started to go well because I started to have a lot of symptoms, of second hand effects, how do you call it? Weird behaviors that were related to that. Excuse me. It's okay. Excusez. C'est correct. J'ai arrêté de manger. J'ai encore un peu de la misère avec ça pis de comprendre pourquoi là.

Je pense qu'il y a un peu un mélange aussi de, encore avec le stress financier de ma mère, je me disais que, si moi je mange pas, elle en a plus. I told myself that if I don't eat, she'll have more. I also told myself that the more I get skinny, the less I get pregnant, and the less I exist, because I always had the feeling that I had to get exited from the beginning. So I stopped eating, and I started to mutilate my fear. And I ended up, precisely, I managed to open myself in R1 to another adult, another trusty adult at school, in relation to that. So basically, at some point during my time at school,

my mother came to pick me up with two policemen. They said, come, let's go to our jobs. And I didn't understand. So they put me in a room without telling me anything. It changed, but the same room that they used for abusers and criminals. I was 12 years old, but I wasn't gay. There was a chair with a nail and a wall, and cameras everywhere. And basically, the police came in and started asking me questions about the sexual abuse I had experienced.

And I was really scared, because I trusted those people, pis j'ai eu vraiment peur parce que, tu sais, j'avais confiance en ces personnes-là pis c'était la seule personne qui me donnait de l'amour, fait que j'ai juste menti au policier pis j'ai dit que c'était pas vrai pis, tu sais, je m'en rappelle, j'avais des hauts le coeur pendant toute l'entrevue, j'étais tout le temps sur le bord de vos mains pis le policier que je suis me parlait de laisser partir pis, and the politician just let me go. And then, in the end, he told my mother that I had invented this. So... My mother asked her if I saw a pedo-psychologist. And during that time, I continued to talk to him every day, and he would come down and do what he had to do. He would give me, it was pretty much all the time, 40 dollars each time,

so that I could help him. And I would look after him. And I went to school, and I still had some really good grades, so the school didn't worry too much. And then, at some point, I told the pedopsychiatrist that I wanted to die, that I was pregnant. So they admitted me. They kept me in the pedopsychiatry hospital.

And it really didn't work. I ended up getting sent to school too. And basically, when the hospital told my mother that she was ready to release me, because he had more hair with me, my mother didn't want to take me back. Nobody wanted me to be at home. I even went to the General Hospital of Lestri. I never really understood why I was there.

I arrived at the General Hospital when I was 13 years old. I don't know by what miracle I was the only one of all the people who were hosted in the youth center, who had the right to go to school outside. All the others had to go to the youth center school, which is not necessarily reputed there. But I had the right to go to school outside, so I got up in the morning, from my little room in the youth center, I took the bus and I went to school.

Then I continued to have contacts with them. And basically, in the youth center, they knew that I had like a more old man. And it was like really normal with the girls who lived there too. So there's no red flag if they were raised. Did they know their age or were they just older? Yeah, they knew adults. And at that time you were 13?

Yeah. Well, no, I was maybe peut-être 14, parce que je m'en vais en secondaire 2. Les gens qui travaillent là savaient que t'étais en couple avec un adulte. Oui. Les professeurs? Les éducateurs. Non, pas les professeurs, mais c'est des éducateurs. Mais quand même, c'est...

Pis peux-tu juste m'éclairer?, pedopsychiatry, it means... A child's psychiatrist. Okay, I didn't know it was called that. Yeah, so let's not get old people, it's going to be gerontopsychiatrists. Pedopsychiatry is the psychiatry for children. And did the pedopsychiatrist know how far it went or did he know... Well, deep down, he thought I lied. Okay, he's very slow.

When I was an adult, I asked him for the psychiatry reports. Because I think it's... I don't know how long it took for it to be destroyed, but I managed to get some reports. And I don't think I should have read them. Because I don't have a doctorate, but what was written was possibilities of mytomania, of sociopathic disorder. He thought I was that, but nowhere, nowhere, it was written as to look at post-traumatic shock syndrome, maybe, or attachment disorder, no. It's, I would say, mythomaniac, sociopath, psychopath.

You have really intense words to put on a 12-year-old girl who doesn't want to eat anymore. And the guy... Nobody went to see this guy's computer. Nobody went to investigate these guys? No. Not at the time, because I had said it wasn't true, it wasn't abuse. Who do you trust? I never talked to anyone about it. Did you ever get angry?

No. I have a hard time being angry in life. I'm disappointed and And trust is weird. The moment you told him that... Did you tell him it was sexual abuse? How do you trust that person? Did you say, I have a guy who is older? Well, I think... I think it was like a discussion about contraception. And then he... he was talking to telling us what we had already done.

It was mentioned that I was not protected in any way with the relationships I had with that person. I didn't take the pill, I didn't take anything, and he never put his name on it. He told you that? Yes. So the person didn't necessarily know that... Yes, she knew the age. Yes, she knew the age. That's why she was there. And I understand that it was in her downfall.

She called the police and she got a signal from the police. I don't know, but that's what she had to do. I'm not angry and I didn't like her more at that moment. She did the right thing. It's more the police after and the PwCad who really missed it. Yes. la bonne chose. C'est plus les polices après pis le pédo psychiatre qui là, ils ont vraiment eu un manque. Oui. Fait que c'est ça. Fait que là, dans le fond, j'ai changé d'école parce que j'avais été renvoyée de la première à cause de mes comportements.

Pis, tu sais, je disais que les seules personnes avec qui je c'étais capable de vraiment bien m'entendre pis de bâtir des liens, c'était les professeurs. Mais là, dans le fond, j'ai commencé mon secondaire 2 dans une nouvelle école pis ça a l'air que toutes mes professeurs se sont fait dire au début de l'année de comme, « Si Joliane elle essaie de vous parler ou d'ordiner avec, mais genre méfiez-vous. Méfiez-vous, j'ai ensuite une menteuse, faut pas que vous la croyez, faut pas que vous parlez, faut pas que vous lui donnez de l'attention. » Qui a dit ça? C'était l'un des personnes qui travaillaient à l'école. One of the people who worked at school. I wasn't part of the system, so I don't know who said what to whom,

but I know that it was the message that was sent. Isolation is even bigger because my mother doesn't want me to live with them. The people at school really hated me because of my marks and my insulation. And the teachers, they were like, I'm going to a big liar, don't worry. So again, that person, she was the only one. She was always like, I understand you, I'm here for you, I'm going to help you, I love you. So after that, it's just... All the time. I love you. So the job is just...

...all the time. When and why did you decide to file a complaint? Because you finally filed a complaint. Well, filing a complaint was really longer. So basically, I continued to see this person until I was four, so it's almost 16 years old. And I managed to get out of the youth center. There are people who have accepted to take me in as a host family. And thank you very much, by the way. So they told me, you know, you'll invite your invite your child, we're going to meet him, we're going to see him.

So it was the first people who put a little label on it. So I invited him to dinner, and it never happened. Obviously. Obviously. So apart from that, the links were cut. The links between you and him? Yes. Because he didn't come to the dinner. I hadn't realized it yet, for example. Did he cut the ties or did you cut the ties?

It was a bit like both. I invited him to dinner. He never came. He never wrote to me to tell me that he wasn't coming. And even if I had seen him for four years, and I trusted him a lot, it didn't take much to make it stop. So he just didn't come and didn't give me an explanation. The trust was over. Did he tell you not to talk about it? Did he use his real name with you?

He used his real name, but he lived really far away. He told me not to talk about it. But at the same time, he knew I had nobody to talk to. He knew my whole life. He never told you, don't talk about my age, people could judge us. No, he didn't say that. But he knew I had nobody to talk to, even if I wanted to talk to.

And even more so after... Everyone told me that you're a liar and a liar, that you can't trust them. He just had to be very safe with what he was doing. Hmm. I don't think he imagined that at some point I would... grow out of it, and then turn back and become stronger.

Your family welcomes you, they expect you to come to dinner, they know your name, your age, everything. I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so, they knew. And probably, the way I know him, he would have told me afterwards. He would have told me he didn't know, but he never showed up, so it's the situation. They didn't ask about anything else?

They didn't ask if they had sexual relations with you? I imagine they knew, but they didn't ask me. I just wanted to make my welcome with them. They really did that because they were nice and they loved me. Because they were two people who were not even 30 years old, I think. They were very nice with a teenager with a problem, they didn't have children. They really did the best they could, and they're angels. But there are tools sometimes tools you don't have.

And it's okay. People didn't give them those tools. So basically, when I was 16, the accounts were cut off. And I started trying to be a normal teenager with a normal love life. Which... It doesn't work like that when someone has programmed you from A to Z to just be a body and to have a personality. So I never really... I never really hung out with the guys of my age. It's really funny.

I was told that I was ugly, that I didn't have a personality, that I was a monster, and to stay away from it. And I realized that it was serious and not normal when I was the same age as him, and that I was ahead of my primary school. And that I saw people from the sixth grade. And that's when it really hurt my heart. How old were you?

When I realized, I was 25. It was long, it was really long. I really had put it in a little box. Sometimes I thought about it and I thought, you know, once I see the name of this guy in a newspaper that he did something to a little girl, I don't know, at 5 or 10 years old. I'll feel so guilty for saying nothing.

But at the same time, I was programmed to say nothing. But when I was about 25 years old, I passed by my school and I saw the children. In the sixth grade, the one I understood that they weren't in love with me, that I wasn't mature enough for my age, that I didn't look like a woman, and that it was all lies to get what he wanted. And with all the gear it made, all the ways you start thinking, thinking of yourself and thinking what a relationship should be like, what is love and what is sexuality,

just accepting that people, you read them, you read them, and then they leave. And that's just what you get out of it. So I was in a very bad relationship with guys that I didn't really... I deserved better than those guys, let's say. But at one point, I just had one of the clicks and I got out of the abusive relationship I was in. And I said to myself, today, you never know, but now I have to go to the police station. It was really like a bubble and I knew I had to do it today.

And I moved to the police station. At the age of? 26, 27. 26, 27. 26, 27. How did it go? When you were welcomed? Really well. For real, it scared me because, as we were saying earlier,

I feel like what we see and hear is a lot of negative stories from people, a bit like I experienced when I was younger, who are not taken seriously, who are ridiculed, who are asked how they were dressed, and it really doesn't give the taste to denounce. But I was really surprised this time. I was very well received. Once I arrived at the police station,

I said I wanted to file a complaint for sexual abuse. The gentleman was very kind and asked me to sit in the waiting room. I found someone who was going to take... It wasn't the deposition at the beginning. A policeman took me there. He said, you don't need to tell me details, you don't have to go into what you want, I just want to know the events, your age, the person's age. He was just asking roughly, because what he explained to me was that the laws had changed,

that they had really gone with special teams trained for this, and that he wasn't trained for that. So basically, he took the details, that's the big portrait, and after that, there was someone who was really his job, who was going to remind me for the rest of the things. So I just said, well, that person was the age, the acts, it was this, that, that. And after that, he let me go. So the first time, who was super nice, After that, they let me go.

The first time, which was super nice, there was really no shame, no guilt. They just accepted what I had to say. And you're like, bravo, you did the most difficult part today. Wow, congratulations. When did Master Jean-Grant arrive? As a prosecutor, I get into the case once the police investigation is over. Before anything else, I just wanted to know...

I thought it was impossible to have you talking. Did the laws change? She was talking about something that you need to be approved. In fact, we have a protection mechanism in place in many cases of sexual nature which is called an ordinance of non-publication. And this is something that is required to protect victims who do not want their name to be released through the judicial process. So we do that if it's the victim's wish to have their name protected, their identity protected, to make sure that there is no advertising in this type of case if the victim does not wish it.

So the reason why it's possible that we're talking today is precisely because Julianne wanted to raise this order to be able to express herself publicly about what she went through. So that's what makes it possible to have these discussions. So it's not the aggressor who decides that? No, on the contrary, it's not to protect him, it's to protect the identity of the victim. Often, the identification of an aggressor can be anonymized, if it's a member of his family, for example, who has been a victim. So identifying the aggressor could also identify the victim, but the ordinance is really made to protect the identification of the victim.

And then, did you specialize in... Sexual crimes? Yes. It wasn't the only thing I did, but I had training. So at the time, I worked at the Sherbrooke office and all the prosecutors who normally commit sexual crimes have received training. There are some who are really specialized who do only that, but depending on the size of the offices, sometimes we don't just do that. Now I'm working for the office in the north of Quebec, so I'm going to do

the itinerary course at Nunavik. And I do a little bit of everything because we don't have enough prosecutors to really have specialized teams. But yes, we receive training before doing sexual crimes. The most possible, it will be just trained prosecutors. And is his story, are these stories that you have heard often or is it like the first time you heard that? It's all that aspect of his story, it was the first time I heard it because what we receive in the police case is really the facts had the statement of Joliane where she explained what she had experienced, but all her background, everything that led to this crime being possible, often we don't necessarily have that information at the beginning of the file. In this case, Joliane also wrote a letter to the judge about the sentence

to explain a little bit all the consequences on her, where she was able to explain a little bit also what led to that and what she had experienced as a consequence at that time and then afterwards. So we have this information there too. But at the base, a police file is often very factual. So what are the crimes that were committed? Less, what is all the background that led to this?

Yes, because between me and her, the court and the sentence, there is the investigator who was involved. The testimony had already been done and recorded, and there are a lot of steps that had already been done before that put a prosecutor on the case. So, yes, when we receive the file, the investigator has already met the victim. In the case of Joliane, there was a video statement that had been made with the investigator where she explained everything that had happened. The investigator also does other investigation steps to see if it's possible to get proof of corroboration.

Once their file is complete, that's when it's submitted to the prosecutor. So I receive this file and I look at all this evidence before meeting Julian for the first time. How did it go with the investigator? Seriously, I'm almost sad that it's over. Because I love it. I wanted to ask, do you want to adopt me? It's really... An exceptional woman, I would like to wish for the same. Can you make the choice to choose a woman to represent you or not?

It's... no. No? No. Oh! In the sense that we will take that into consideration, but it's not necessarily, yes, the choice of the victim, both at the level of the investigators and the prosecutors. But in reality, the vast majority of prosecutors nowadays are women. So there are a lot of women prosecutors, there are a lot of women prosecutors specialized in sexual crimes.

On the other hand, we also have men prosecutors who, having worked with some of them, who are also specialized in sexual crimes, are excellent too. So the way the files are distributed is not necessarily the choice of the victim. On the other hand, it is certain that we meetings to make sure that this person is at ease. So we met before the case was authorized for the first time. We had a first meeting where the goal was that I explain to Julian a little what to expect through the judicial process before even the accusations are brought. Can you tell us about that? For the people who are listening to us, and if there are people who have suffered things

and haven't denounced them yet, and who are hesitating, can you tell us what can be expected? What are the steps? First of all, when it comes to denouncing, this is something that is done with the police. So even before it goes to the prosecutor, there is always the police work that will be done to conduct an investigation, to put up a file that will then be submitted to the prosecutor.

As prosecutors, our first task once we receive a report, is essentially to evaluate this case, to see if we have a reasonable perspective of condemnation if we are carrying out accusations today. Sometimes we will ask for inquiries to the police if we see something missing that we think could help the case. But essentially, we are supposed to receive a complete file and evaluate that file. When we talk about crimes of sexual nature more specifically, the practice is to make an encounter that we call a pre-authorization encounter with the person who denounced. So the victim in the file will often be accompanied by a CAVAC

investigator will often be present at these meetings. And we do these meetings in order to explain the judicial process to the victim and that this person knows very well what to expect if we file a complaint. So the goal in there is that when there are complaints that are filed, the victim knows exactly what to expect, what will be its involvement in the judicial process, what does it mean that there are complaints filed. So this is an encounter that we make before even making accusations.

This encounter is also made when we decide to refuse to make accusations. So if we receive a file and after evaluating the file, we don't think we have a reasonable perspective of condemnation. We will explain this decision to the victim. So, in which case, you wouldn't have enough information to be able to file a complaint? What is the most popular case? That's really case by case. We really take each case at the same time. And we have two evaluations to do. We have the evaluation of whether, if we present all the evidence that is present in the case, a judge could decide that this person is guilty.

Which means that we must take into account the whole evidence, that can be the version given by the victim, but we can have all kinds of other evidence. If we are talking about an event that took place in public, we can, for example, have surveillance cameras. We can have other witnesses from a party which will also give versions. So we have to look at the whole of the evidence and decide if we present this evidence to the court, is there a reasonable perspective of condemnation? That does not mean that we must be absolutely certain that the person will be found guilty for accusing. We must simply have a reasonable perspective. So if we present all of this evidence to the court, there is the perspective

that is declared guilty. Is it possible that if someone is unworthy, there is no evidence because there was no camera, nothing happens, but in a street, someone gets caught, let's say. But it's often that in sexual abuse cases, it's a proof. Is it possible in certain cases, that there's no proof, that no one was there, or do you have to reject that? Well, I think that's a myth, because often victims don't realize that their version of the facts is proof. I don't understand why it's not...

I don't understand how it's possible. In the sense that you have to look at the basis of the given version, whether it constitutes an infraction au centre du code criminel? Des fois, ça peut être que la personne va avoir été victime de quelque chose, mais que ça correspond pas à la définition juridique, par exemple. Ça peut aussi être des circonstances où des fois on va avoir une situation où il y a un manque de souvenirs, dû par exemple à l'intoxication ou quelque chose de where there is a lack of memory, for example, from intoxication or something like that. Sometimes there are holes where we just don't know what happened. It's hard to give examples because it depends so much on the case by case.

But what you really need to know is that the victim's victim constitutes proof, and the fact that the potential suspect gives a contradictory version and that it is part of our police file does not automatically mean that this file will be denied. So the fact that the version of the victim is just can be sufficient to have some accusations. And in the case of the Joliane case, the evidence in this case, the most important evidence was precisely the version that had been given by Joliane. It was she who gave us everything that had happened. And there were also the writings. Are we able to find everything that was written? We can't find the writings of Do You Look Good, but I was lucky because basically, Do you look good? No. No?

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. After that, it's like a little... Okay. It's also certain that another important thing to know is that the flow of time doesn't necessarily have an impact on whether we decide to authorize a file or not. For example, now we know that it would be a myth to pretend that someone who was a victim will denounce the situation right after. So we know that each victim goes at their own pace and can take days, months, years before being ready to denounce the situation. And that, in the event of such a situation, will not be something that will be used to evaluate the credibility of that person.

So, Juliane decided, but in fact, who was ready to denounce years later, it did not make sure that we could not bring accusations. On the contrary, we always had the evidence available, its version was available. We still were able to bring accusations based on the evidence that was still available years later. Can you tell us about the investigation process. Well, that's it. I did... So after I filed my complaint and I spoke to the police, I was called up by the investigator, sergeant-detective, I don't know what the term is to name it,

who asked me to come to the post for my filmed statement, my filmed testimony. So I present myself there. Super pleasant. Really, really, really. The place where you were filmed, it was different from what I remembered when I was younger.

It was in a room that looked like this. I had a lot of clinics if I needed to. It's really, you that looked like this. I had a lot of Kleenex if I needed it. It's really, you say what you remember. In the chronological order you remember, if there were things that were not certain, she came with me and asked me to go to the painting, to draw things, to give her additional details. And what she explained to me is that in theory, once you have filmed your statement, they really waste, they really ask you a lot, a lot of details, and they force you to say more than enough because after that, it's in the goal that you don't necessarily need

to go to testify. They don't necessarily ask the victim to return to testify, to fight, to have a interrogation contract. They will really use the video as proof to try that you don't always need to defend yourself and repeat many times what happened, what I found very delicate. Is that new? Is there any kind of disposition in a criminal case to make the testimony and the passage of the victims through the judicial process easier? For example, particularly when we talk about child victims who make video statements, There are specific articles in the criminal case that provide the possibility to prove this video statement. For adult victims, it is usually done by a testimony in court. We have all kinds of measures to help with testimonies that can be put in place for victims

who find it particularly difficult to be in the classroom, including in the presence of their aggressor. So there is the possibility of putting a parable between the victim and the accused so that she does not see the accused. There is the possibility of ask for a distance testimony, so that the victim can be in another room, and not be in the presence of the accused in the courtroom. On the other hand, the practice of taking video statements by police officers also helps us in a more general way, because it is the first time time the victim gives a complete version and to see it on video,

this is proof that is given to the lawyer to accuse him. They can immediately see what the victim's version is, what the strength of this proof is. And what happened in this situation when Juliane made her statement in video, but in the end she didn't need to testify because on the basis of the evidence in the file, the accused hopped the cutlery. Yes, I was really lucky, I didn't have a trial. He admitted the facts. Why haven't you seen him again since you were 16?

Yes, I saw him again. I saw him again a You saw him again? I saw him again a little after complaining, but he didn't know. At the FEC, at the Quebec Summer Festival, he didn't see me. I saw him and I was like, angry. I wanted to see him and confront him in the street in front of everyone and ask if the little girls still liked him. But I was held back by someone who didn't think it was going to help.

Yeah, unfortunately. I would have gotten mad. I would have said, go, go! Yeah, so I got into that phase. But yeah, I was still in class a few times, because after having... He had guilty pleas, but he wanted to contest the minimum sentence. He didn't have guilty pleas to all the bosses, for example. He had guilty pleas to two.

And there's one of the... What are the bosses? Can we know? In his case, there were a lot of bosses who were brought in because it was a long period of time, and the criminal code articles changed a few times during that period. So essentially, he pleaded guilty to bosses called sexual contacts and incititation to sexual contacts. So essentially, this is the infraction when an adult touches a child or incites a child to touch him sexually. And he recognized all these bosses for the entire period. So he was guilty of these two types of bosses. And at the time, with all the changes in the criminal code,

there were changes in what the minimum sentence was. For these bosses, over the years, it started in the past, there was no minimum sentence, it increased to 45 days. Eventually, it had become a year, the minimum sentence for sexual contact taken by the criminal. But since that period, it has been invalidated. So we are back in a situation where there is currently no minimum sentence for this crime. On the other hand, he, at the time he had committed this crime, he still had a half-malicious pain.

And the half-malicious pain of inciting sexual contact was also still valid. So he pleaded guilty essentially for the entire period, the period from 12 to 16 years of Joliane, for sexual contacts and sexual incitement. How did you react when you received the charges? It didn't surprise me because I knew that my evidence and my evidence was solid because that's where I came into my life. But honestly, are there have any guilty pleasure?

For personal interest? Well, because she didn't have a choice either. That's right. At one point, it's not because you're a defendant. It's because a trial will be much more mediatized. And probably you'll be told by your lawyer that with the evidence that the prosecutor had, you won't win. So, try to have a less high penalty in the case of a culprit. I don't see it necessarily as a victory. It's certain that in a way, the liability is considered as a factor that is lessening the penalty it will have,

because it's a demonstration of responsibility. When he recognizes what he has done, when he admits what he has done in the courtroom, a guilty plea, which also avoids a victim of testimony, is taken into consideration as a factor of attenuation. So it is certain that when he chooses to plead guilty, potentially the penalty he will have takes into consideration the guilty plea. Whereas if there had been a trial that had been declared guilty following a trial, he could not benefit from this attenuating factor. Is his name out?

Yes, but I'd rather not make an advertisement. That's what I understand. We can all find a case. Isn't it still available? It's still available. And the judge made a written decision that is published on the penalty he received. So that's... Why did you pull?

Well, that's it. We spent a whole day listening to debates about why it wasn't necessary that she spent 45 days in prison. So I saw her again after the Summer Festival in Quebec. I think it was the other time I saw her again, because he wanted... He wanted to go to the festival? No, that's it. No, he wanted to go to the gym. That's pretty much what he said to the judge. That if he didn't go to the gym, it wasn't good for his mental health. That he had already lost his blonde because of that. He could have lost his job because he only had the right to one year, his baptism.

The prosecutor asked for four years and he was like, I don't want to go, I want to do this in the community. But I have to go to the gym. So he cried a lot, but for him. It was like, I want to go to the gym. It's going to be too much for me to go to jail. But I didn't hear... It was all day long. The morning and afternoon, there was a third prosecutor there,

who was contesting the minimum sentence. la journée le matin, puis l'après-midi, il y avait un troisième procureur qui était là, vu qu'il contestait la peine minimale. Puis, c'est ça, j'étais là tout le long, puis il n'a jamais mentionné plus que ça de regret pour ce qu'il a fait, ou de... De vraie prise de responsabilité, là. C'était... Oui, oui, il pleurait. Puis c'est ça qui a été sorti dans l'article de journal, là, c'est qu'il y avait des remords sincères parce qu'il pleurait, Yes, he cried. And that's what was in the article. He had sincere regrets because he cried, but it was for him. His Jim. His Jim Sablone. How long did it take? Let's say, wait.

How long was he judged? How much did he do versus very important information for me. So the final sentence given by the judge is 33 months of detention. So it's 3 years. A little less than 3 years. We had asked for 4 years. Yes. So I had pleaded for 4 years on the sentence. His lawyer asked for a prison sentence in the community. So essentially, yes, it's a prison sentence, but that he purges at home.

So what we call the source of the House arrest. Essentially, that's what he wanted. Hence the fact that he was contesting the minimum sentence, because he couldn't go, he didn't want to spend a few days in detention. He wanted all the punishment to be done at his place. Which was refused by the judge, who imposed a 33-month detention penalty. How long did he do it? He came back two months ago.

He was only in September, so he's currently in detention. How long is he in prison? We don't know when he's going to be released. It's up to the release of the defendant. I thought you said he was released. No, he came back in September. But according to your... what is it, six months approximately? It depends. I would say that this is really the conditional release. We as prosecutors, we don't have much role to play.

The minimum is normally a sixth, but that's the minimum. It's not necessarily the most frequent, but then after that, it really depends on the conditions we're talking about. Did you talk about it to your mother and all that? Well, my mother, at 16, just when I left the Centre de l the youth center and went to a foster home. I asked to meet my psychologist. I told her, Mom, I love you, but you know, you don't have a parental attitude. I love you, I'll always love you, but I was 12 when you decided you didn't want to take care of me anymore,

so it won't be the time anymore, so I'd like you to stay in my life as a friend. It was really hard to do, but it worked. So... She said yes? It hurt her, of course, to be told that by her child, but at the same time, my mother was always very good at admitting her mistakes. And she made big mistakes, and that's for sure. And I think she too,

likes to tell me that I wasn't a good child, that I didn't sleep with her, but that's what teenagers do. She accepted it. From 16 to 18, she was a bit bit blue, but she became my best friend in 2018. And that's it, I forgave her everything. I understand where she comes from, I understand her mechanics, and I understand that she did what she could. She really did what she could, and she found it really difficult to be a single parent, she too. And she wasn't a tool either to get along with a little girl who had so much trauma to fix. But I never talked about it at all. She had no idea what happened to that guy.

But at the beginning of COVID, she died in my arms. So it's been four years. I've had her as a best friend for a couple of years. And after that, I saw her go away. And it's really the part that makes me feel sorry for the podcast here. Yes, all of this happened because she had... ...lack in her role as a mother, but... ...it's all forgiven and we had all settled it. And it's when I went to the hospital because she was going to die, basically, in the following hours.

It was perfect because we had nothing to say, we had nothing to say, nothing to say. We had nothing to settle. All the babies we had done when we were alive, I still feel it, but everything had been settled. And it's something that I learned and that I try to put into practice also since I was a teenager, all the time. I never let go of my mind and all the time, like... I've never let anyone tell me,

and all the time, I was fixing things with the people I loved. Because, you know, she died, it took two days. She was doing great, and it was over. So you never know. And I think I was really lucky to have already understood that before she died. Because I had no regrets, and it really was just a need for love, and it was like, well, well.

So basically, she was already dead when I complained and everything. So I was alone during the whole process. There was no one with me in the police station. And when I was in class, I don't know if she was always alone, but the investigator I was talking to took off, and she came with me to the classroom every time there was testimony or they were contesting their sentence. So you know, there were sisters with their families, their friends, etc. And my little policewoman was like, I have my rifle, my sax, something.

OK. What gave you the strength and the courage to speak up? OK. Every time I spoke to people on Facebook or things like that, I always said that I had super good confidence. People who told me that having seen you speak openly about yourself made me want to say that I also had this, this, this, this, this. But I'm not strong enough to go and make complaints or take steps. There are still a lot of people after that who gave me stories because I was able to say what happened.

So that's why after that, to file complaints and remove the order of non-publication. That's it. When the article came out, it had me outraged because there were a lot of things that came out as if my mother knew this relationship and she approved it. And she wasn't even there to defend herself. She never knew anything. I don't know if it's because they called the guilty and they could give the version they wanted. That's what was going to be published in the newspaper. Mamouir had flaws, but like never before, we would have let her go to bed with a guy who was 30 or 40 years old. We were poor, but there are limits. Well, you know, for real, I know it's not easy to report,

but you saved us in front of everyone. So, you know, besides thinking about yourself, thinking about others too, it's an incredible gesture. We always think we're alone in there, and that I'm able to take it, I'm able to take it.

And I have people who write to me, I'm like, no, but you know, it happened once, and I swear, I'm like, no, no, clearly not. You're not the only one. It's for sure that you're not the only one who did that. It's not because it's you who chose you, it's because it's him who's got a problem. So I'm like all the time...

So bravo, you saved yourself. A lot. A lot of bad guys. And if we stopped having the shame of what happened to us, we would be so powerful. We have the strength. We don't have the strength, we have the strength. It's okay if there are some who don't want to denounce, don't complain. force. On a force on la force. Oui. Pis... Mais si c'est correct, si y'en a qui veulent pas dénoncer, pas porter plainte, chaque victime décide de faire ce qu'elle veut avec son histoire. J'vais jamais aller dire à quelqu'un qui faut qu'il fasse. Non, mais c'est que c'est moi les gens qui portent pas de plainte, moi ce que j'essaie de leur faire,

c'est que là quand je leur demande pourquoi, ben c'est tout le temps, c'est pas comme, ah, c'est tout le temps. What I try to do is that when I ask them why, it's all the time. It's not like, ah, it's all the time. I know that every reason is correct and I respect that. The only thing is that it's often the reason that comes back is that, ah, well no, but you know, I'm correct. I'm sure that, well no, but it's in the past, it's for sure that she benefits from that. And you know, it's not, like, it's for sure that yes. Once you have the confirmation, yes, it's for sure. For real, my sexual partner told me, she said,

Joannie, this, if you did it to yourself, it's for sure. A sexual aggressor, a pedophile, it's not once. You crossed the line, you're sure it will happen again. So if you say that, okay, after that, yes, take the time, but it's so important. It's really important. And don't say we're alone. It's certain that we're not alone. We all have strength in us.

We're strong. We don't have good years. And we have stories like yours, like yours, that are beautiful. Because the other part we have is that, ah, it never works, people say it's in the cause, it never works. It worked for me, it worked for you. If there's nothing perfect, there's nothing easy, but crime, for real, I believe in justice, even if it's not perfect. It also makes these people, I don't know if you can tell us, but the people who have been sexually assaulted or pedophiles, they have restrictions. Can you talk a little about it? In these cases of this nature in general, there are all sorts of other ordinances that will be mandatory or possibly given in the cases. First, cases of sexual nature as sexual assault come with what is called an ordinance 109, which is an ordinance of banning firearms for a period of minimum 109, which is a 10-year minimum period of 10 years' prohibition of firearms. And it can be more, according to the person's ancestors, because it is recognized that it is an

infraction of violence. So, with sexual assault, we have this prohibition of firearms. There is the order to provide an DNA sample that makes sure that this person will be registered, this is at the national level, so if there are other crimes that are committed in the future, it is possible to have an identification if there is this DNA match. There is also the register that comes from the law on the identification of sexual offences. And this is an ordinance that forces people to register annually. The way it works is often with a police station close to their home, but it can be for a period of 20 years or life, it can be shorter too, but depending on the

severity of the injuries and the penalty given, it can be all this period there, when they go out of detention, they still have to inform the nearest police station of the basic information on them. That includes their address, that includes their job. So there is a form of surveillance that is done at that level. And every time there is a change in this base information, they will have the obligation to inform the person who is in charge of the register. So this is not something that is public, so it's not anyone who can go and see if there is someone in my neighborhood. On the other hand, it is a tool that is in possession of the police officers at the level of these orders.

It is certain that someone who finds himself with a penalty of detention and who is released by the Commission of Conditional commission, will be released with conditions too. So it really belongs to conditional release, but it can have different obligations at the level of a follow-up, it can be obligations of residence in a transition center, all that. So there are still several possibilities and ways to control the risk of recidivism of these individuals. There are also those who can't go to jail. So there are those who are there before incarceration too. He was arrested for almost a year before being put in prison. Basically, my investigator had been down, had been on the road for three hours in his hours to arrest him and interrogate him.

He kept his right to silence for three hours, but after that, by releasing him, he was no longer allowed to be around a school. So they had already put you in prison, but that's it. They couldn't work anywhere, where there are children, so they work in a grocery store. It automatically happens before you're declared guilty. It's a sentence that can be made that really fits the circumstances of the crime committed. Because, depending on who it is, it can be that you don't work with people under 16, it can be that you don't go to parks or public places where children can be found.

When there is the computer aspect of crime, it can also be that you of not using social media to communicate with minors or more general prohibitions in connection with the internet. Because often, we see more and more of this type of crime that begins or is completely committed by the internet, a bit like in the situation of Julianne, where initial contacts that allowed the crime of sexual contact that was committed afterwards, well, initially there were months where this individual committed the crime of computer art to go to eventually the meeting in person. On the other hand, the computer aspect, the aspect of the hour, as it is, is also a cream. I don't want to talk about it any more, but that too, there is a split between the hour and the period of four years

when he used digital networks to maintain this relationship, but he also started it at the beginning and manipulated it and went into the grooming that started with computer. Because basically it was just a total of 27 months, I think, for sexual contact on Minard, plus 6 months for the computer error that totalized that. That was the judge's decision. And I just wanted to add something. If there are people who are not ready to report, that's fine.

The only thing that is true is to write down. So that I don't forget. So let's say that 5 years later, 10 years later, you decide to denounce everything. Everything will be written down. I wrote everything down in a diary. I threw it away because I didn't want my mom to find it. But for real, that was my biggest regret. I wrote everything down. When I started realizing that it wasn't correct.

But write everything like that, you will really have more details. And also when you are going to do your verbal deposition, you have to be ready to write it before, once, to reread it, to put it back, even if it's crazy how difficult it is. I know it's really difficult, but it's because once once you get back there, you'll have a chance. I regret it because I didn't know how to help anyone. I was so stressed. It felt like everything was out of my mind.

One of the things I didn't know was that I didn't even know 50% of what was kept because the rest, I didn't know if it was in the living room or in the kitchen or like, I didn't remember. When they lack boots, that's why you really have to be clear and write everything. So write everything. And when you're going to be a priest, you're really, really going to be a lot more of a priest and keep those writings. It's really important. I think that people should also know that they can go and talk to the police, make their initial statement and then change their mind. In the sense that one of the reasons why we are doing this pre-authorization meeting with the victims is precisely so that they understand what the judicial process implies. c'est justement pour qu'ils comprennent qu'est-ce que ça implique le processus judiciaire. Puis durant cette rencontre-là, si ils sont pas prêts, c'est correct.

Ils ont le droit de nous le dire, puis on va dire, OK, bien pour le moment, on va refuser le dossier, mais tu reviendras nous voir quand t'es prête un jour. Puis si c'est dans six mois, c'est correct. Si the other hand, the statement that is part of the police file still exists and will be able to be used at that time. So I think it's important to know that going to the police does not automatically mean that there will be accusations and that the person must be involved in the trial immediately. What is the advantage that there would be? Can we tell the police officer so that it is in the file? And if there is another person who is complaining, can they use that? It doesn't matter if they say, OK, we have three complaints for this guy, but they didn't continue.

Does it make an impact or what is the advantage? Well, I would say the advantage is more in terms of preservation of evidence. Okay, okay. I understand. Because giving the version to the policeman, it makes it a little... it's not on the shoulders of that person to say, ah, I have to write everything down and remember it. I understand. It's like, here, I gave him my version, the version is complete, it already exists.

Then, if I want to talk about it in 5 years, I'll be able to watch this video declaration that I made and it will refresh my memory. Are there really people who are not willing to go talk about it, but who are willing to go... It would seem that in my head, I would have... If I don't have the guy, I don't have the guy. It happens. It's better because it's true that it's a good idea don't have the guy, I don't have the guy. It happens. It's better because it's a good idea. Because as you say, the writings can happen to anything.

And if it gives someone the idea. And I think it can happen that there are people who, immediately after a traumatic event, will go talk to the police. And they realize, finally, a few weeks later, when they meet the prosecutor, that no, I don't want to talk about it. I'm not ready.

But the case already exists. I understand. It's good to know that. Really good. It's been a while since we last met. It was... Thank you. Thank you both for coming.

Thank you for sharing your experience, your story. Thank you for joining us, for enlightening us. I wanted to know, would you be available for a little 10-15 minutes with us on Patreon? We would have a few questions, a little more for you. Yes, certainly. Thank you very much. question. Merci énormément. Vraiment merci. Vous allez faire vraiment de différences pour vrai là, c'est ce podcast là, j'y crois. Merci beaucoup. Merci. Bienvenue à l'after show. Nous avons des questions du public pour vous. Mais avant j'en ai deux. OK. Sinon je... parce que sinon tu vas partir plus Okay. when they gave me back my deposit. And it was written there, I was 4 years old,

it started when I was 4 years old, it went up. But he made a deal with the Crown, the Crown that I don't know who it is, it's you. He made a deal with the Crown, like what? She's the one who told me the lawyer of Everyone Talks. She said, I can't say he's a pedophile, because the deal he made is that he sued the head of the prosecution, but not to be a pedophile.

But how can you say that he sexually assaulted children, me, my cousins, we were that age, but the deal is that he's not a pedophile? It's really difficult for me because I don't know what the accused were. It's sexual assault. sex? Because, well, we often make agreements on which chief and which fact the person recognizes. As in the case with Juliane, that's what was done. We heard about which fact they were going to recognize, and which chief they were going to recognize. So they recognized the sexual contact leaders, the sexual contact incitations, their own as well. But there were other chiefs in there who were not recognized,

so they were not found guilty. It's been too many years, that's what she told me. It's because she saw that it's been more than ten years. There's an article that changed, or I don't know what. In short, because it's written in white, sexually aggressive, sexual harassment in the mouth, and then like, ah, well, we can't know what it is. Anyway, it's written in white, sexually assaulting, sexually touching, and then like, oh, we can't give the pedophile title, but... No, but that's it. He told me the same thing, and the way he explained it to me is...

Again, your podcast on pedophilia, I didn't listen to it because it's too trigger, but, you know, pedophilia is really like one of the sexual desires that you're attracted to a child. So, you know, there are people who will put gestures on children Pédophilia is really one of the sexual violence that you're attracted to a child. So there are people who will put gestures on children, not necessarily because it's the child who attracts them, but because they are just like the age, you understand? So they categorized it as sexual assault. That's it.

That's it, but it's not that. You have lots of children, like... What I can say... I was told that it was because he could have done that. Yes, we have trans-unit. It's true that in this case, the information that came out of the reports, because we asked for reports after the most occupations, it was not necessarily that there was a general attraction towards children,

it was more circumstantial of where he was in his life at that time. On the other hand, the offences he committed, there are still the culprits to sexual offences against a child. And there is a statistical code that applies in all these files that show that it is sexual offences against a child. I understand. But I would have liked that when she was pedophiliated. You can use it however you want.

But it's a pedophile that we read. Because pedophiles don't find themselves in criminal cases. There's nothing legal with that title. I agree. Second question? Yes. Would you be able to defend a pedophile? In the Quran, a little bit. Like, do you know that it's a real pedophile?

That's a difficult question for me, considering that I'm a prosecutor and all I do is accuse. So, I personally don't see myself working as a defense lawyer. I work as a prosecutor and I really believe in my job, I believe in my mission, and I really like working with victims. It's something I love, so personally, it wouldn't be something I would be able to do. But would you be allowed to refuse? So someone says, here's your client, your client is accused of that, and you, when you go out with them, you're the one who's going to take care of them.

It's like defense lawyers have a power over which client they accept. They don't need to accept all clients. And I know defense lawyers who don't want to touch sexual nature files that they don't need to accept all the clients. And I know advocates who don't want to touch sexual nature cases, they don't do that. Are there often men or women who represent... Or are there often more men who accept to defend the aggressors? I can't say I've necessarily seen...

Disappointment of your answer. I'm sorry. What can I say? You cut my hand, the other one is a guy! It's a girl. Your lawyer is a girl. Really? Not a girl. Do you have less? I think there's more...

when you look at it statistically, there are a lot of prosecutors in the Crown who are women. when we look at it just statistically, there are really a lot of prosecutors of the Crown than there are women. When we look at the lawyers of defense, it's maybe more proportional. There may be more men lawyers of defense proportionately than when we look at prosecutors. So there's just more chance of having a defense lawyer who is a man, when we look at who the prosecutors are. But I can't say that of all the sexual nature cases I've done, there are as many women as there are men who work as a defense lawyer. That's good.

Julianne. Yes. Do you still feel the negative effects of this relationship, in your daily life today? Yes. As I said in the podcast, when it happens to you, especially in adolescence, when your brain is training and analyzing what love is and what relationships are, well, it's probably that if that relationship hadn't happened, I would have had better kids later. All the physical relations, it stays.

My food disorders, it's on and off. Very, very fragile. I don't use it anymore, but I stopped using it. I think I was 19 or 20 years old. So it stopped. But really, not finding myself pretty, finding myself big, wanting to disappear, sometimes needing to have more validation of others,

which is not super easy. I work hard on that, but it's still effective. But I would tell you that the worst, worst, worst that I would really like to be manage to get rid of is that I'm not able to breathe. I don't know how to explain it because he was always breathing on me. So, let's say,

it's disgusting. When there are big canicules, I will be really aggressive if I have to stay outside and I feel like I'm breathing because I feel like it's him who's sweating on me all the time. So I'm going to be like taking three showers a day when it's hot, all the time wanting to stay in the air. And even if I'm going to do sports, I'm going to the gym, I'm going to have a lot of laundry to change because sweating is really anchored in me. And I know it's because of that and I don't know how to get rid of it. It makes me really aggressive.

But I would say I worked on the effects it had. Did you try the hypnosis? Yes, I did. And the movement through the eyes too. It helped, but it didn't change the transformation. In the end, we're all fine. No, that's for sure. 100%.

I don't think we ever become 100% either. We have to use it well. Yes. That's a question for you. From what moment do we talk about grooming? If someone aged 21 goes out with someone aged 17, can we really do something? Well, in fact, grooming is not a term that is in the criminal code. What is really criminalized is the computer law to commit crimes of sexual contact or incitement to sexual contacts.

On the other hand, the age of consent in criminal cases is 16 years old. So generally, these infractions, 151, 152, which are sexual contacts, incitement to sexual contacts, are for children under 16. So 17, that would be... There are some exceptions, however, when we talk about people in an authority situation. So article 153 really talks about this same type of behavior towards a teenager if the person is in an authority situation. For example, we're talking about a teacher with his student, it's criminalized even when they are 16 or 17 years old. On the other hand, in the general population, if there is no trust or authority between these two people,, 17-21 years, it would not be criminalized.

16-35 years. It would not be criminalized. 15-35? We don't know the age, but we're not sure. The age of consent begins at 16. So it's a 16-year-old boy and a 45-year-old boy who has a guy who was 45, who was in a coma, they were in bed together, they had no connection. But it's the same. But it's not criminal.

It's a very common link that he's going to make. What's moral, what's correct, and what's criminal, it's not always the same thing. Let's say the doctor of lawyer, but the adult person, you put pressure on them to send them material that... But it's certain that there are all the infractions, we didn't talk about juvenile pornography, so it's certain that a 16-17 year old young man

who is in a relationship with an older adult who asks to send nude photos and all that. There is all this dynamic that also comes along. On the other hand, it's really, at the moment, the age of consent is set to 16. So from 16, essentially, we determine that young people 16-17 year olds can get pregnant. So let's see. A 16 year old girl goes out with a 45 year old man, is that correct? Because they are in a relationship. It's not criminal. It doesn't mean it's correct. Ok. So here's the guy's sound, he says, can you send me a picture of you naked? I'm bored of you.

He sends a picture, he gets caught, he's holding on to the vinyl pornographic, but he's sleeping with it, it's a regular base, but he can't send pictures. That's what I understand. Yeah, how do we get out of this? That's a good idea. Yeah, honestly, I'd have to check, because there are all sorts of exceptions that apply.

We can really have them, that's it. It's tough when she understands. At some point, it's hard to get someone out of a situation that our child doesn't even understand. It's your child. I think that often, and we see it with infractions of time, it often starts with telling a child, by telling, how mature he is, how different he is. What would you say if I was a woman? If he showed pictures of what I looked like to the judges?

If he was 30 years old, I wouldn't imagine he was 16. Well, at 12. At 12 in primary school. I just had my rules. Personally, I don't have a child, but my cousin has two... I would call them little girls, but they turned out to be teenagers. I can tell you that I give them speeches every year about who they have as friends on the networks. If it's not someone you know personally, you don't say yes and you stay away. And if someone one day tells you that you're mature for your age, you're like, no, I'm not mature for my age, it's you who's immature for your age.

It's you who can't catch people of your age. So I... there are certain themes like that, like you're mature for your age, and you're different from the others of your age. Oh, that's really good. Yeah, it comes back often. It's good. I'm going to drink what I have. Ah, welcome to CF.

Welcome to the official platform, Patreon Sex Oral. I'm here! I'm here, I'm here, I'm here! I'm a teenager! What can you expect from our Patreon platform? It's live shows that we've never shown to anyone, that you'll be able to see.

You'll be able to ask questions for guests who come. You'll see one bonus podcast per month, sometimes it's live shows, sometimes it's just us here who jam. After the podcasts, after the podcasts we're going to have recorded, we'll go directly to Patreon to film after shows. Announcements in advance, tickets, access to live shows. No matter what you choose, like whatever, we thank you in advance.

It's a big difference for SexualOral. It's something that grows, it's our baby. We're proud, we're happy. Yeah, and that's it. Thank you so much! A production of the Studio SF.