Sexe Oral - Survivre à l'infidélité avec la sexologue Anne-Sophie Hollender - pt. 1

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Les propos exprimés dans ce podcast relèvent d’expériences et d’opinions personnelles dans un but de divertissement et ne substituent pas les conseils d’un.e sexologue ou autre professionnel de la santé. Cette semaine sur le podcast, on reçoit Anne-Sophie qui est venue parler d'infidélité dans le couple et de comment passer à travers ce genre d'épreuve.Plus d'information sur Anne-Sophie Hollender : https://divanbleu.com/sexologue/anne-sophie-hollender/ Le podcast est présenté par Éros et Compagnie Utiliser le code promo : SexeOral pour 15% de rabais https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/ Les jouets dont les filles parlent: https://www.erosetcompagnie.com/page/podcast ---- Pour collaborations: [e-mail] Pour toutes questions: [e-mail] Pour suivre les filles sur Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sexeoralpodcast Pour contacter les filles directement, écrivez-nous sur Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexeoral.podcast/

Today's podcast is presented by Heros & Company, and we're testing, vibrating, sexting Alice. So I'm making her try a new product, and she's giving us her impressions. Honestly, yes, it looks like it's ketone. It's the feather. The feather. I advise all couples to have a feather in their couple because when you do erotic massage parties, the feather will get the erogenous zones, it will stimulate them to increase sensitivity.

And now we have our feather coming out! V-Drop! You put some lubricant on it and it will slide everywhere on its body, it will vibrate everywhere on its body. Just tease gently like that with the little pen that's living. Yeah, that's interesting. For couples or people who want to think of the pen alone, but for a couple I think it's really fun. And you know, someone who has never played, it's a very good first toy to integrate into your couple.

So I wanted to get you the news in the section HiroS & Co. of the HiroS & Co. website with the code SEXORAL for 15% of rabies. Big kiss, thank you HiroS. Today we have Anne-Sophie. Anne-Sophie is a sexologist and today we are going to look into the subject of infidelity.

A little bit of what motivates someone to be unfaithful, from when something is infidel. We are digging into many aspects of what it is. Super interesting. It made me ask a lot of questions. I went to therapy today, actually. It made me ask a lot of questions. I went to therapy today. And you were there, so in this precise case... Yes, I forgot that it was for the public. But I really liked it.

It's a taboo subject, but it's important to talk about it because it affects everyone, from close or from afar. So, good podcast and I hope you will love it as much as we do. Good podcast. Hello Anne-Sophie. Hello. Hello, Léa. Hello, Anne-Sophie.

Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie. Hello, Anne-Sophie! Hello! Hello girls! Thank you so much for being here! We are super excited to talk about this with you!

Already, before the cameras start shooting, you told us a lot of things and I'm just looking forward to getting into the subject. But before, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who are you and what do you do in life? So, a lot of things to say. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist.

I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist.

I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. I'm a sexologist, I'm a sexologist. in the subject. But first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Who are you and what do you do in life? So, a lot of things to say. I've been a sexologist since 2017. Then, in fact, I started my private practice and so in my office, one of the subjects that comes back quite often is infidelity. There is not only that as a subject, but's about that. Thank you. And that's also why I wanted to talk about this subject, because it seems that the more time goes by,

the more I think about the subject, and I can see it in different ways. And I think there's something that brought me in, since I was little, because I come from La Réunion, I'm not a Quebecer, and at La Réunion, there's a radio called Tropical Heat and at La Réunion you have a radio called Tropical Heat, and in fact, it's people who call to tell you, I'm looking for this, that's what's important,

and often there were cases of infidelity. I'm with someone, but I'm 50 years old, but I'm looking for someone 20 years old, etc. And I think that already it planted the seed, and then it aroused my interest. So you know, while preparing the podcast, I said to myself, I think it's coming from there. Ah, that's interesting.

Yeah. Have you ever lived or, well, have you ever been cheated on or have you ever cheated on? Yeah, I've been cheated on, that's for sure. What does that mean, cheated? I've been cheated on, I've been the one who's been cheated on. The one who's been cheated on, okay. Yeah, yeah.

But I have to admit that when I was younger, I also got cheated on. Okay. But it really bothered that when I was younger, I also made mistakes. But it really disturbed me when I was younger. I thought, you know, in relation to my values, what is it that I was led to make mistakes? I didn't sleep well, I didn't sleep well at night. Then I understood that it had a function. And that's what I bring to my practice too,

because you're unfaithful, but you're not unfaithful for nothing. It doesn't fall from the sky, there is a function. Once you understand the function, it allows you, among other things, to go down to another level and do something about it. And there's no one who has the DNA of infidelity. Some people will say, yes, but I'm unfaithful, that's how it is. No, it's not like that, you're not born with that. It's like that behavior, it's a choice you make.

You choose to be faithful or you choose to be unfaithful. But yes, I was wrong. Because now we know that you prepared a little something. We are here, pre-ambulant. Can you tell us the pre-ambulance? I'll read it to you. Liz, her patience is... We have someone who works with us who comes from France too.

Well, I don't know. I have a meeting that belongs to France, a small island. I like them a lot. It's stronger than me. I speak to someone French and I don't have a choice. To make little words like that. You're good, for example. You're very good.

It's a passion. I don't rip you. It's with you. I don't take it like that, but you'll see, there are lots of words that come out, I have trouble saying it. The chum, the blonde, the guy, the nana, the girl... I'll try to... If you imitate us, I think I'll scream.

If it ever happens. I'm not good with accents, it's like when I speak English, it's terrible. But at the end of the show, I can try something. I'd love to. I'd love to do that too. Okay. I'll do my preamble for you.

Yeah, I'd like to do that. It's really just a little thing that I'm going to read to you. And then we'll really talk about... We can define infidelity, etc. Perfect. So me, with my sexologist ear, when I hear infidelity, I hear liaisons, I hear lies, break of trust, we talk about broken hearts, taboos, eroticism,

back to self. I hear the words bastard, bastard, unfulfilled promises. I hear my friend who says to me, Anne-Sophie, my head and my ass, I'm two different departments. I react and say, ah, okay. I hear an old man who says to me, but the mistake is human. So here we guess that at that moment something happened.

Me, first thought, what did you do? What did you do to us? What are you doing? And then finally, by reworking the subject a little, to answer him, what does it talk about?

What happened? There's like something more sweet that got settled at that moment. I hear whole sentences like, but you know, it's not wrong. A faithful one day, a faithful always. Yeah, but you know, men, moment. J'entends des phrases toutes faites comme « mais tu sais c'est pas trompé », « infidèle un jour, infidèle toujours », « ouais mais tu sais les hommes, oh les femmes elles vivent un manque d'amour ». L'infidélité c'est un pouvoir séduisant qu'on appelle la transgression. Ce qui m'attire c'est quoi? C'est l'inaccessibilité. Univer, parallèle, utopique, surtout quand on compare aux contraintes terre à terre de notre quotidien et éventuellement de notre vie de famille. utopian, especially when we compare the constraints of our daily life and possibly of our family life. I want to transform, to transcend myself.

There is a world in which infidelity offers us lots of possibilities. What I don't have at home, like my chum, my old jogging, there is nothing exciting in there. It means that we often want something that escapes us. Interesting thing, very few infidels survive their discoveries, while we risked so many things to try to live a story. We project so many things on the other, but in fact when you have the sublime that comes to get mixed with the ordinary, there is something that goes away. You have been unfaithful, you fantasized something, you idealized something, but it doesn't last. It's like the first butterflies, after a while,

they end up dying, the butterflies. Then we come back to our routine, to our daily life. Without the lack of legitimacy, does infidelity still keep this thirst for desire? We can ask ourselves that question. I observe infidelity everywhere around us, in films, by the way, Quebec films, Simple as Sylvain, which came out not long ago,

in discussions between friends, in networks,, in the 5 to 7 story, in what I saw not long ago, a bit naive on Instagram, that you could put private conversations, or Facebook with men, also as a trick for the infidels, something where you can hide the conversations, you can come back later. It's really everywhere. I come to the conclusion that everyone is also touched by the subject, close or far from it.

We like to disobey conventions. Why? For our freedom. In fidelity, because it brings us to talk about fidelity too, it's a promise that we make to others, a sexual exclusivity, love with a big A, as in Disney movies. A promise in a context of romantic relationships. I only make one with you and I want everything with you. I want you to overcome my wounds.

There is often a love triangle that will happen when we become unfaithful. And in fact, we are breaking that, we are going through this romantic promise when we make it. We want constancy and feelings, we want to be exclusive, but sometimes being multiple is being too much. We want someone to accompany feelings, we want to be exclusive, but sometimes being too many is being too many. We want someone to accompany us in our projects, in our parties, Netflix parties, to go around in our days of shitty November, we want that.

Finally, infidelity creates a path in the conception of a somewhat idealized couple. But there is a difference between the ideal and reality. In infidelity, there is the story of you, of me, and then there is the betrayal. The betrayal, yours, mine, what it represents for you, since it makes me me. And that's where I want to bring the discussion too, it's to see that there is not a bad guy, there is not a nice guy. There are like two people who live a different life, but more or less at the same time. So here we are, we are going to talk about this subject, we don't want to be in a position that is too punitive. We want to bring people together to link languages, to talk about their history, but we also have to get our ears off.

So that's what infidelity is. It's like a crisis. We're all going to live through it. If maybe I wanted to push the thing by saying that infidelity can be a gift unwrapped. What are we going to do about it? That's great. You write very well! Thank you! And you wrote that? I wrote that. I'm also fascinated by how you were able to look at your page for a second, look into your eyes and read three sentences.

Yeah. Thank you. Is that a visual memory? It's a lot of work to prepare the podcast. Wow! I'm very impressed. Congratulations. Thank you. But there are lots of elements in that. That's why I did the preamble. I didn't define infidelity in the preamble, but you know, what is infidelity? I looked at the little Robert, the Larousse, what does he say? It's flat as a definition. In fact, infidelity, we can't really define it because it's like it's elastic.

We see it, it's like we can always add elements, elements. Did kissing go wrong? Did chatting go wrong? Did I contact my ex again? It went wrong. Massage with finition. In fact, there can be transgressions

that involve sexual activity or not. Whether in a monogamous couple, whether in an open couple, whether it's in polyamory. Even there, we see that there is infidelity, while we could say, we have negotiated something, but infidelity is so powerful that people still sometimes need to transgress it. And why is that? Let's say someone comes into your office, what are the cases that you see the most often? Of infidelity that led to a breakup or really like the fact that they come to get help from you? Often, already, people who come to my office, they don't come because it's over, they come because there is a crisis.

So I really welcome them in a period of crisis where they want to try to understand what happened, and they want to save their couple. That's a little bit of what we see a lot in the office. But they want to understand, but because they don't understand on their own at home, they try to do the work, to ask why I crossed the line. Then they don't have the answer. You know, our job as sexologists, professional sexologists, is really to bring them to make sense of what's going on.

And listen, there are so many stories. Every time I say to myself, I think I've done the trick, I know why people are faithful, there's always a new version. And what is the main reason, the most popular one, that you see in your office? It's often a quest for self. It's often people, in fact, it's not even that it's not going well in their couple,

it's that it's them, there's something existential about them, they need to feel alive. So yes, there can be traces in the couple, a bit like some kind of metastasis that shows that it's not going very well. But there's that, but there's really something they talk about too often they did it for them, and not against the other person. And that's where I find it interesting to bring another level, because we don't cheat to cheat. There are some, maybe that's it, but those who come to consult, it's not that. They don't want to lose. They have been unfaithful, they are aware of all the consequences that it can lead,

how it can be stolen, we break their relationship and yet they take the risk. It's pretty incredible. I know I can lose the other one, but I still do it. There is still a force that pushes me to do it. And then, if I make a link with social networks, there are like other doors that open. You know, before we didn't need social networks to contact our ex or to make contact with someone

or applications. Today, we have all this in our pockets. We have thousands of single women, we have all of this in our pockets. We have thousands of single women, we have temptation all the time. How do you help a couple that, let's say, because infidelity is unique to everyone, like you, for you, what is infidelity? We go with... You speak...

Let's say, Claude, what would it be, Claude, that would be considered infidelity for you? It could be just... I see someone sending messages to someone and then they hide it from me. That's it. That could be just that. But it depends...

I also have the impression that it's case by case, in the sense that... It's so subjective, but in you, what you're saying is that there's the notion of secrets. Yes, that's it. From the moment that you hide things, there are secrets, that's when you start to no longer be in the moral contract that you had between you, if you did. Yes.

Well, I think... I think it's a non-sense, you know, but things that you know would hurt the other. But you bring up a point that is so interesting, that people don't talk to each other, don't discuss this subject. You know, when you're married, you have the marriage contract, then there are your wishes for the best and for the worst, then we swear to each other, blah, blah, blah. But when we're not necessarily married married or when we just met someone, we don't have that discussion to say

Hey, what's acceptable for you? What's acceptable for me? We don't have that, so we stay a little bit in the blur, but it's important to clarify it and to know. You know, if for me it's intolerable that you watch porn, you may need to know it, it doesn't mean you'll stop watching it, but we've had this discussion, we've talked about it. Are there times when you have people in your office, let's say, who come and someone has limits that you find, that you can find yourself, who are like...

How can I say that? Who are too... Who push me to the same level. Yeah, a little bit, you know, that... That the person, there is just insecurity, and that at the limit, it's suffocating the other too, you know? There are, it happens, but there is never nothing that happened in my office,

I said to myself, you're exaggerating, because it's so subjective, you know, when the person, she arrives, it myself, you're exaggerating, because it's so subjective. When the person arrives, it hurts, we're talking about pain, we're talking about suffering, we're talking about broken hearts. And we're trying to accompany them. It's certain that I'm not going to put myself in a judgment position. I'm really going to put myself in a position

where we can work on reparation. But it's true that there are stories sometimes where people use infidelity as a revenge. I see, I think that's something that hurts. It's like an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but when does it stop? When do we take out the white flag and we say to ourselves, especially if we want to stay with the other, we move forward together. You know, when you fall into it, it gets complicated. But the porn you were saying earlier, for example,

I have a sexologist, and at the beginning I went to see her because I had someone in my life who listened to a lot of pornography, and I was like, well, how is that? It's because I'm not quite her type, and the pornography she listened to, clearly it wasn't me. So I asked myself a lot of questions and it made me angry. I was angry when she listened to it and I was like, why are you listening? So it was a conflict, but it was really in my first relationships. I went to see her and she told me, pornography is a man, it's visual. She had actually explained to me the importance of... She told me it was right. Guys, it's right for anyone to listen to pornography. It's right. She reassured me that it wasn't serious.

So when you say, if pornography is wrong for you, it seems to me that it's normal, it's correct to listen to videos. Where I would see a problem is if you don't want me anymore and you just listen to videos, it would create a problem. I don't want to make love with you anymore, but I always assume myself with other videos. So there you see that there is a problem, but if it doesn't affect, you know, it didn't affect my relationships, you know. If I wanted to, we went ahead and everything. But you worked on it, you made that internal journey there. You did the job that some don't do.

Do you understand? There are really some who stop at the first level by saying, it's porn or I see you fantasizing about Shakira and Beyoncé, it doesn't work for me, etc. It's like we're getting into each other's head a little bit, but we can't control everything. What you did is that you went to work on that. And it's about you, actually. When you were asked why it affected you, am I not correct? Am I falling into comparison? What makes him maybe going to realize certain fantasies that go into the porn?

Not with me. What's going on? Someone who comes to your office for this kind of problem, you will often help the person who feels touched, more than the guy. My question is, is the guy, is it a problem or is it more us? Well, no, but if they come, it's a couple problem for me. It's like, in any case, there's a problem in the relationship, if they put the term problem on it, and then it's up to them to look where I'm moving the cursor.

Because it remains that we have our freedom, and then I think that if you want to consume porn, you have the right. Then what does it do to the other? Then where are you ready to negotiate something? And look at porn, and look at porn, there is a difference too, I think, between I look at the images and I'm like interacting, I don't know, on HonniFan or whatever. And then you have the other one who is having sexual gestures. Me, on my side, I do stuff too.

You know, we're elsewhere, we're in another department, there's still an interaction with the other even if on the screen. We're still live. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you see that? I see it, I see it, of course. I think that would be pretty... I would be gassed.

Yeah, me too. I learn that he's like with someone on live cam, and that she can answer him. Yeah, that would be pretty cool. Even if he doesn't pay. And at that moment, that's when you're going to intervene more and say what... According to you, did you cheat? This line? For me personally, did I cheat? Yes.

It depends on how I feel and how I feel with my partner in my relationship. Because it's sure that I also have, if I take just me, Anne-Sophie, who also has this identity of sexologist, I worked a lot on the subject.

I think I have a way of approaching it. But if I hadn't done that work, maybe I would have seen it like, but you're cheating on me, my boy. And it doesn't work for me. But the people who come, you know, often when they bring that, it's that they feel cheated. Well, yes, they bring the subject. It's like there's something that doesn't work at the level of their value.

It comes to shake them up compared to their couple, compared to them too. And it's hard because with porn, we can also fall into comparison. Porn or not porn, there's another woman, another man, we're going to fall into comparison. What better person than me, who makes you able to have an erection, while when we're in our bed, both of us, nothing happens. Yet I do everything, I put everything in the set-up, and there's nothing. Yeah, clearly, it's a problem.

For me, it's not a big deal, as long as it doesn't lead to problems in the bedroom. If I see that there's a clash, that it doesn't work, and the other side works, then obviously, yes, it becomes a problem. If there's no difference, and everything is fine, you want to shave six times a day, with no hair care, anything, it doesn't bother me. As long as I have... Or if it doesn't bother me, it can be fun, or it's not fun,

when it doesn't bother me. I don't know. But beyond the sexual aspect, I always wonder if it's about something else. You know, what makes me unable to let go of my partner in my intimate relationship, and in porn, I'm able to do it? You know, isn't it dangerous? Because when there's infidelity, what does it do? It puts a kick in the face, a wake-up call.

There are problems that we may have never talked about before and that will end up coming back. And that's when there's going to be a real discussion in the franchise and in honesty if we're ready to go on that field. But often it comes to light a lot of other things. If you have a friend who gets cheated on, how do you accompany her?

First, I wouldn't give her any advice. What I do, and that's what I do in my job too, I accompany people in their first level, in any case, it's already to accompany them in their emotions. Because sometimes that's what allows you to heal, like I can empty myself, I can really say everything I have on my heart, I'm already going like that. I think that's like the first thing. A second thing is that I also questioned her,

if she has suffered from infidelity. It depends if she has suffered from infidelity or if she is unfaithful. I might not have the same approach. If she has suffered from infidelity, I asked her, you know, but for you, what does it mean for you? Is it like the end of something for you?

Can you still continue? What does it do? In fact, I like to make the distinction of what. Can you still continue? What is... I like to distinguish between what is bad and what is bad. It's often not the same thing. And it allows to bring the reflection a little bit further. But you know, I would say to my clients,

infidelity is a chapter, it doesn't represent your whole relationship. There's something comforting in it, saying it doesn't mean that everything is over. It's not necessarily fatal. It can be, for some people. It depends on your values, it depends on your luggage, your experience. But it doesn't mean that it's the end of your relationship. It doesn't mean that your guy doesn't like you or that your blonde doesn't like you.

It's that they say that, you know, confidence is really hard to win back. You know, I feel like if you forgive an infidelity, but it's been a year since it happened, and you still put something on its nose, how can you continue a relationship without remaining in the rancor? Well, yeah, because you're always punishing, you don't move forward. Instead of being in the repair, you're like always trying to settle your accounts. And I think it's something that doesn't work. If you're always bringing that back on the carpet, it means that the work is not done.

We didn't understand the meaning of infidelity at that time. And that's where, once again, the sexologists, or at least the people who are in there, we're going to do this work with people. Okay, but what does it talk about? Because we don't want to come back to our patterns, we don't want to be stuck in something that has messed up our relationship again. We're going to understand where the utility is, okay? What is the meaning of infidelity? What happened? Once it's understood, it's easier for the person to...

It's easier to make sense. ...to understand. It means that she didn't really understand why the person did that. Yes, yes. She may have made sense, she may have needed to live emotions. That's why you're here. It's not easy when you're at home, you learn that your boyfriend or your nanny cheated on you.

How do you get out of that? We're on the edge, we're in anger, we're in frustration, we're in sadness. You cheated on me, there was like a sexual yes, but you broke my heart too. Can you imagine if the person who cheated on you, in addition, she fell in love with his mistress or his lover. There, you have to deal with that. It's like not only you left, you went elsewhere, in addition, you fell in love with someone else, but you come back home and you don't want it to stop.

Have you ever had cases like that, let's say the guys, well, the guys, I'm not talking the girl, but there is a mistress, he falls in love with her, finally he comes back and then they came to see you and then it really settled, or by experience it's like, it's very rare that it succeeded in coming back. It happened to me, this kind of case, of people who came, several people who came to the office, or that was it. Unfortunately, it's that sometimes they don't continue the journey, you know, with me, in a relationship of help, until the end, they stop when they think that it's going a little bit better, or when they are no longer able to tolerate. So sometimes I don't always have the answer, I don't know if it really went on. But I see it, you know, that the other one arrives, and then in fact he is in pain of love,

because here he must have said stop with his one arrives and he's in pain of love, because he had to say stop with his mistress and he fell in love. There was this phantasmatic. But you see, in the studies that I was saying, in my preamble, it's that we see that people, let's say I fell in love with my mistress, then I decide not to come back in my relationship with my partner, I decide to go live my relationship with the other. Let's say I chose to break up.

It didn't last. There are certainly stories for which it worked. I left with the secretary and finally I had children, blah, blah, blah. But studies show that most of the time it's still pretty idyllic. It's not done quickly. But no, the problems will come back the same. You have it in all couples. Yes.

That's really what I realized. By seeing friends, when situations happen, you realize that in the end, that's it. You know, we have a lot of couples of friends, and I thought that they looked perfect. And finally, thanks to with the other guys, and in the evenings, you're like, okay, my God, they're living it, you know, things, so it's never perfect, and you build something with someone,

and for me, it's really important to... And I listened to a video yesterday, which is a professional, I think, a sexologist or whatever, she said not to take decisions during the first two years of a baby's life. And it's crazy because yesterday, my husband and I were like, I'm a little bit bored, but it's always fun, it's never... But we were bored. And I found this video,

and I sent it. Because it looked like I was in a crazy mood. For that, it's perfect. Yeah, but I... It's always... My worst nightmare is really that. For me, having a child with someone, unless I really suffer,

whatever it is, and I'm really happy. But little problems, little problems, whatever, for real, can you please? So I sent it. And he was like, well, it's beautiful, Jo, don't worry, it's okay. I'm like, no, you just have to don't leave me before two years. He said, so in six months?

I'm like, yeah, that's it. So we have six months left. But would you be afraid that he's cheating on you because you're in this situation? And that it's not obvious as a good mom? Louis, I think it's... Louis, it doesn't exist. Anyway, I don't know, but I don't think it would exist. Cheating on him, like... He's already cheated once.

And he says, it was, I wasn't sleeping anymore. That's what he said. I wasn't sleeping anymore. It gushed inside me. He said, I can't relive this. I can't relive this again. Because he felt it in him too. For him, it's inconceivable that he does that. In the sense that it was too heavy to bear the weight of guilt. It's painful. He said, I've never had a trauma like that, a bad one like that. He says, it's deaf, I don't do that. So he lived it, he did it. So I say, at least it's not me who lived it.

But at the same time, it brings me to say a lot of things about that. Each couple will live, you know, for a long time, we will experience storms. There will be temptation, there will be things that will present themselves on our way, it's almost inevitable. What are we going to do about it? Yeah, that's it.

But there may be a moment in your relationship with Louis, who is someone who... I'm making a connection with the internet, but... You have someone who comes back from social networks, an ex who says, oh, I'm wondering how Louis is doing. I'm going to write to him. Then it falls at a time when you're taking your head off with your guy,

and it's not going well, and then you say to yourself, my God, what are we doing together, etc. Bam! There's the girl coming. So you know, it can happen, but what are we going to do about it? And you know, the other point I want to tell people, the grass is no longer green elsewhere. The grass is greener where you grow it.

And often people, they have the impression that elsewhere it's good, it's a wonderful world, etc. It's not wonderful elsewhere. It's the butterflies at the beginning, it's normal, but that doesn't stay there. It's like a... It seems like it's the first year, the kind of little butterflies,

and then it stumps. No, it's nice. I would shorten the thing. It's me, it's me. It always depends. There are some who are lucky, it will last longer. But it's at the beginning. Because again, it's a bit sublime.

It's extraordinary. It's adventure, it's exploration. You don't have all the things that are like destroying your daily life. You know, like I said, you don't have the chum who with his old underwear, with a hole. you don't have the chum with his old underwear with a hole, you don't have the headbanging in the car where you can't handle the impatience anymore, you don't have yourself going out of your swimming pool with your hair in a mess,

there's not all that. So it's for sure that the butterflies at the beginning, they're there, you meet the person, she shaved herself, she washed herself, it's great. We're at our max, at Max's place, we're on our X. But how long does it last? When we get into the routine, what happens after? It goes away. We don't have to change our relationship every time. Well, it depends. Everyone sees midday at their door.

There are people who are addicted to that, who are addicted to the first papillon, and then when there are no more, they are... But totally right. They are people who are addicted, a little bit, who are really the adrenaline of the beginning, and then they are not able to... The platonic thing, it's like... they're going to look for other things. There are people who are not in a relationship, who are not made. I don't know if they're not made, or they're not going to look for stability, but they're really going to like... Persevere. But at the end of all this,

they're going to be happier. At the end, often that's when they're going to eat a door in the face. Because at some point you get old, and as you say, in the fall, it's fun to have a little coffee, to be stuck, to have a kind of...

Anyway, it's different for everyone. It's the spring of November that comes. You're depressed. But you see, there's that, you have those who will want to have adrenaline all the time, a bit like extreme sports, they need their dose. I find that pretty incredible because you want to change your relationship to have your dose,

but it's so difficult to be in a relationship at the time of today, I don't know how they do it. You have these people there, then you also have people who have a double life, who have a mistress, who have a lover. That's what they live, it's that excitement. It's that side, but in fact, I don't have all the disadvantages of my daily life. I'm a little uncertain, but I'm able to tolerate uncertainty. There's something exciting, inaccessible and exciting. And they're in it, and they can have this dose.

I admit. So it's like both cases that you see. And once it's over, the relationship is over, we try something, well, let's go. Let's over, the relationship is over, we try something, and it's gone. This excitement is gone. There's no miracle. We're all in the same boat. After a while, it's gone.

There's a sex worker we've received who told us that since she was doing that, she had lost a little... She had lost a little hope in love. What was she doing? Being unfaithful? Being a sex worker? She was a sex worker. She received a lot of unfaithful men. And I wonder if you had an impact on your vision of infidelity. Were you more rigid at the beginning and you were more flexible about this subject? impact sur ta vision de l'infidélité? Est-ce que t'étais plus rigide au début, puis tu t'es comme assouplie face à ce sujet-là, ou au contraire t'as comme... t'as tellement

de gens infidèles dans ton bureau que tu t'imagines que ça n'existe plus, la fidélité? C'est une bonne question. Clairement, j'ai travaillé là-dessus, puis... je pense pas que ça... moi, je suis en amour avec l'amour. Je pense que c'est aussi pour ça que je I don't think that... I'm in love with love. I think that's also why I do my job, and I believe in it. But I accept that it can be part of the relationship. And for me, I accept that it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be the end of something. It's how we're going to work it out.

But that's what you see in the stories. People don't come to you to say, Hop, life is wonderful, etc. They come to you in a crisis period. They come when there's something wrong. So, of course, I see it, I'm aware of it. But for my personal life, in any case, I think I kind of accepted the idea that it could happen. And then what am I going to do about it at that moment?

Today, October 22, 2024, I'm like that. Am I going to be in the same place in two months? I don't know. We change all the time. But I still kind of accepted that, you know. I think I'm like that too. Yeah, well, it depends, you know. It depends on what's going on too. There are things that I would be able to accept, others that I wouldn't.

It's like you can never know. It makes me bounce back on something, you know, infidelity, okay, you learn that your chum or your blonde is unfaithful, but how do you learn it and how did it happen? I think it can also influence how you're going to live it. If I'm with someone and I don't know, I learn that my chum was unfaithful with the secretary, with Céline, etc. And he didn't tell me.

And when I found out, he lied to me in front of me. Double penalty. Not only you lie to me about your infidelity, I can understand you. If I can understand you, it's because I may have proofs. In general, we are like that. Yes, we have our intuition. And it's so important to listen to it.

But we're going to have cracked the phone. We have messages, but we're going to have the phone cracked, we have messages, and we're going to stretch the perch a little to see. And then you have your guy who tells you, no, but you're crazy, come back, it's not going to work. Because there you are insulting, for me, you are insulting my intelligence. And then, not only are you cheating on me, but in addition, you are still doing it a second time. For me, it's double penalty. So there, even if I have a sexologist hat, great, I'm understanding and empathic, it's possible that it doesn't work. Versus I'm with someone who tells me,

I'm sorry, I screwed up, it's true, I hid it from you, what can we talk about? It's another department, it's another approach. You know, really how infidelity will be discovered, and then how the other will react. If you feel that the other wants to repent a little, that he's sorry, and that he wants to continue, I'm going to make the decision whether I continue or not.

This is something more gentle, more benevolent. But if the other reacts like an asshole, it won't work. That's for sure. I don't know about you, if it can influence it too, but... Obviously, if M tells me to... Because that's it. I'm so... Well, that's it. It seems like I'm in a... I can't imagine it. So it's difficult for me to do like...

Hey, I wouldn't be able to forgive him because in my head, it's impossible that I can... It's inconceivable. Yeah, it's impossible that I can imagine living it. And if I lived it, in my head it would be like, I don't know, he went to a party and it happened. There was a girl who kissed him and he followed. It would be like that.

And in those moments, I said, I never liked to know. moments là ben t'sais moi j'ai dit moi j'aimais pas le savoir. T'sais, parce que pour moi c'est pas en v'lant dire, c'est pas comme il te extrait quelqu'un pis que, hey vraiment là pis là là faudrait vraiment comme guérir quelque chose pis mais... Mais c'est parce que t'imagines tu l'apprends après t'sais que, ah j'ai vu Louis, il y a une fille, tu préfères qu' they tell you, hey, there's a girl who's gonna take me home, I was hot, and I'm gonna go out. Yeah, I see, okay. Yeah.

Because I find it like, I'm like, okay, but I'm scared. I think I'd rather not know because I'm scared to keep it in my head. And that after that, I can... The thing is... It's too important, my relationship is too important. I'd rather, you know, close my eyes. It important. I would like to close my eyes.

It seems like I would tend to not want to know it, like that it wouldn't affect me. But I know that she gives me yes, I would like to know it, but I would rather not know it because I'm afraid that I can't get over it. And at the same time, if you bring it and then he tells you, at one point, he says, OK, I was wrong, I was a little drunk,

leaving a bar, whatever, but it made me realize that it's really with you that I want to be. And I'm sorry I did it. It's like, it allows me to come back to you better, and I don't want to start again. Yeah. Hello, here is Joanie from my living room to announce a fire promo at Grâce et compagnie that we have associated with Sex Orale. So we offer you a nice gift.

Among all the people who book a demo in the month of April or March, you risk winning the chance to post a live recording and even participate in a recording with two of your friends. So all you have to do is book a demo, it's free, have fun with us, you have more gifts, and you can also win the chance to come to one of our recordings. And if you're too embarrassed, you can just assist, you can just assist and listen in the background. But if you're not embarrassed, you can make an episode with us, which will be available on Patreon. So, book your demo, write your sexual code. It's very important to write your words in oral sex code.

If the oral code is there, it means that you are automatically in the contest. Voila! Thank you! I was imagining in the two scenarios you gave, that he was lying. If you make the decision to continue with the person, you can go beyond the mistake, but for example, if there is a confidence to be won, if I think about the way it was taught, and I think about the fact that you hid it from me, that's where the confidence will be much harder to recover, than if you came to see me directly, well, then I can continue the relationship by saying by saying, at least he came to talk to me about it. So if there's something else to come back to,

I feel that at least we have communication and clarity. So that's why I feel that in a long-term relationship, transparency is what will allow... Yeah, to help you heal. It's not what's best for you. You're from the Dage, after you have to say half, half forgive. I think it depends, but at least I have the impression that confidence would be easier to win. At least. I'm not saying that I would accept everything, but I would say,

he came to talk to me about it, so I'm less in the dark. I'm less in the, like, maybe at any moment he's doing something, but the bastard is looking at me. I'm sorry. I was thinking, I think I was thinking. No, but in the sense that in the other case, you say, well, he's going to tell me, at worst, probably. Yeah. I don tell me. Yeah.

I don't know. Yeah, okay. I'm just afraid I won't make it. So I'm like, it's in Vegas, it's beautiful, tell me, bye. Like, you understand? And then I'm in Vegas, I just want to tell you, I've never kissed anyone. That's not it. I put myself in the head that, like you, I think it's something that can happen.

There's a difference between that and me. In a bar, someone grabbed her hair and she was like... She was so cool. I was like, I don't know. If I know, it's it, I know it. It's gonna treat me better. But at the same time, the first version, we don't know it, but it doesn't affect our relationship. That's what we're saying.

But if he ever did it, but it represents something for him, you want to know it to work on your relationship. Because if I'm like in the mud and I'm sweeping things under the carpet, at some point, there's something that's to work on your relationship. Because if I'm like in a slum and I'm doing things under the rug, at some point something will break in your relationship. Okay. While I can understand, I can put myself in your shoes, and sometimes I don't want to know. Life doesn't affect you, it just made you realize that I'm an extraordinary woman.

Fine. But if for you it represents something, if you start to go into self-sabotage, I want to... I got lost, I don't feel so good about myself in my relationship. Because people, that's it, maybe they don't feel good about the relationship, but maybe they get bored, they don't get bored of you, they get bored of them, they get bored of the person I was before, I felt bubbly, I felt alive, I was always in the mood, it's not there anymore. It's maybe elsewhere. They will turn around.

But I think that somewhere we want to know it to go work on it. I see. But it remains that as a person who has a concussion, it hurts in the bottom. It's painful. You see? It's a hard subject. There are certainly a lot of women who are wrong and who know. Women who have children, families and all that.

They know but they don't want to know. They clearly want to know because it hurts more. Because they know that if they have to face it, they probably think it's going to be the end. So it's better to close your eyes. But we go with that intuition, don't you think? When someone is cheating on us... It never happened. We have a little intuition, I don't know, I think sometimes,

just by talking with friends, not even in the client's case, but you see your boyfriend who locks himself in the bathroom with his phone during I don't know how many hours. He's always with his phone or your phone is always on your phone. You notice that he comes home later, or leaves earlier, or gets a little more cute, or a little more enthusiastic.

Sometimes we would say that, you know, once it happened, we say, I think there were signs, but I didn't dare to go into it because you don't want to have that conversation that is confronting and that can maybe awaken certain subjects. But sometimes there are like, as I say, metastases in the relationship. We say, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah And I was consulted for that. But my sexual orientation came to the point that I was very objective when I was little. So it made me grow up with that. That I have to please the man.

And you have to all the time... So that's like a little demon in me that I fight regularly. And then at the beginning of our relationship, it was really that. He was still there. And for me, it was normal. I know, I'm in a bar, I'm getting a cruise. Well, I accept the cruise. And I wasn't able to do like, hey, no, I'm in a relationship. I was, even if I had no interest, really not.

And I liked my boyfriend, I wasn't able to. Because for me, it was inconceivable. It was like, it was normal for me. I'm a woman, I have to be open, I have to be like that. I also had the feeling that it was the only way I could please people, it was in flirting. Wow, that's deep, what you're saying, I was going to say, but what did it. It was a lot of validation that I had. I had only friends, it was always guys, it was always guys, and she told me, that's it, that's why. You were always really young, so it was like that.

And today, after, when I realized it and when I was helping myself for that, then I said, hey, once I understood, that's when I was like, oh my god, okay, there's a reason, and then I was able to say no, to say like, hey, I'm sorry, I'm in love, and it's crazy, it marked me. The first time I said to a guy, no, I'm in love, and I was like, I'm in love and it's crazy, it marked me. The first time I told a guy that I was in love and everything. I was so proud, I was so happy. And my first name, after that he was so chill with me. He was like, ok. It was normal for him to keep talking to me.

I was like, oh my god, ok. I can still have people talking to me, and guys talking to me, and there's no problem, even if I say I'm in a relationship. It does that job on you. That's what I hear. You made sense. That's why when I tell you to make sense with infidelity, with infidelity, it helps us.

We deconstruct things, and then we say that it allows us to align ourselves with something that is better. And then you make the decision, you put your limit and finally it takes nothing away from you. No, it really does me good. And then today, but after that, it's the after, it made me wear shorts and I put myself in cotton wool. I was wearing cotton wadded clothes. I was so... I didn't want to do it anymore. I wanted to be sure that... that no one would see me. I'm not objectified.

I'm not an object of desire. I'm doing my life. Recently, I was going to do something that I'll tell you later. I was going to do an energy exchange thing. Anyway, she told me that my right side, all my right side, my masculine side was too demanding, you know, it was really too much. And it made me realize that.

You know, there are a lot of things that I do that I'm more, I put myself in one, in my masculine side, more like less feminine because it looks like my little demon, I don't want him to come back, you know. And then recently, I've been trying to... That's why I'm more of a cockatoo. I'm trying to find my place and be feminine. It's hard, I think. I'm trying to do a... Femininity...

It's just my two senses, but... Femininity, I think... my two senses, but I think that femininity, it can be something masculine, if you see femininity as something soft, to take care of others, to be obedient. If you look at your feminine as something that is not your little demon, but rather your little demon, it's maybe something masculine too, to go out there, you know, you understand? It's true. That you associate your femininity with something else.

I associated my clothes a lot with how I was dressed. You know, I was trying to... I was like, same. Like, you know, I thought I was pretty the same, but I was like... Yeah, I understand. You understand? You had like bought an idea,

finally, in connection with femininity, in connection with... Yeah. While it's good what you say, it's not necessarily that. Yeah, that's it. I'm trying to, like, know.

I'm trying to find... You'll get there. Yeah, I'm very relative. You'll get there. We have some little questions too that I wanted to ask you. Yes! Is there a way to prevent

infidelity? What do you recommend to people who consult in a preventive way? There is no one who consults in a preventive way. Not in my experience, I don't know about the others. But it didn't happen to me, honestly, that someone came to me and said, I'm afraid to be unfaithful. You know, I have a little parenthesis, you know, to discuss if I'm wrong,

if I'm wrong. We haven't even discussed it, but if I'm wrong, what happens? You know, we put ourselves in the position, if I suffer, but it's possible that we too, we cross the line.

But honestly, people don't come to consult for that. They're really going to come when there is a crisis, when something explodes. Or as I said, it gives a kick in the ankle. It's at that moment that we will try to unbend, to make sense with history, to try to appease things, and to see how we project ourselves in the future,

if you ever want to stay in your relationship, and if you think you can heal and forgive. But there's no magic recipe. I think what can help you, maybe if you want to stay in... I want to stay square with the person I am with, it's like negotiating monogamy, having this discussion that we often don't have at the beginning,

even when it's a new relationship or long-term relationship. It's very rare that people say, Hey, what is fidelity or infidelity to you? It's subtexts, it's non-sense. We take for granted that you're going to close your dating apps. And that means that we are faithful and we are you and me, but we don't have the discussion. And it's also something that can evolve in the relationship,

in the sense that when you start a relationship and you're more in your insecurities from the start, maybe six months later, you realize that they could have a friendship in a relationship and you don't care. It's a discussion that deserves to be repeated several times. So much. And it's such a discussion that we should have a relationship early enough, but there's nothing to know where we're going. But you know, as you say, we have our insecurities, we have our fears. I'm afraid they find me too intense. What is he going to think?

We're just in a meeting mode. And in Quebec, it's a reality. I'm telling you, with my French and Réunionese hat, I see the difference. Oh yeah? Yes. What's the difference. Oh yeah? Yes. What's the difference? You see, I'm a Metis woman who comes from another country, who has a different culture, a religion. I was blessed in Christian religion, even if that's it. But we, in any case, in France, the reunion is a lot.

I meet you, we go on a date, it sticks, you and me, it matches, we kiss. From that moment on, we start a relationship. Oh shit! Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, it's a discussion with French people, you'll see. It's really that. If tomorrow I see you at the restaurant, at the bar, with someone else, having a fight, but it won't work.

We saw each other on Monday, Tuesday, with someone else. It's because we start from the principle that, OK, we met to try something, Tuesday with someone else. It's because we start from the principle that, ok, we met to try something, we try for real. It doesn't mean we're in love, it means I'm going to do everything to give a chance to the relationship. Whereas in North America or Quebec,

I'm going to test a little bit to see, then I keep my doors open. And when it gets more serious, we'll eventually have the discussion of whether we're exclusive. And when I have that discussion, it might mean that I'm also falling in love. I think so. Tell me if I'm wrong.

I would have been on a date on Monday, it clicks, I meet him on Tuesday at the restaurant with another girl. I'm sure I look at him from afar and I smile at him. I go up to my head and I write down, what are you doing? Put it in French. But it wouldn't work for me. When I'm on a date, and when I was on a date, it was something where I said,

I'm not Quebecer. I put the table, I'm French, and that's how it works. Because for me, it's important, it's inconceivable, I understand, but I have trouble, for my personal life, I have trouble hanging on to it. So you see, that's why I tell you that culture plays a role. I imagine that if you have a religion, it can also play a role, etc.

I was with an Irishman, and you know, as much as the Quebeckers and the Irishmen, there's something that's similar, as much as on all the stuff, and all that. He came here, and he was like, but you're all crazy. What is this? He found us so, like,

unrespectful for the others, you know, in our way of, like, flinching on the edge of the world that we don't know. And he was like, you're disgusting. You know? I'm exaggerating, but he was really... We're all open in Quebec. We're proud to be open, but it can be perceived as a big lack of...

But it's true, give us an idea. Louis, who would be my boyfriend when we're in a relationship. Hello Louis! Louis, it's a nice thing to do at the beginning. We went out, everything was beautiful, we had sex, we had feelings, but we weren't officially in a relationship because it wasn't on Facebook at the time. Oh yeah. And then he got invited to go open a restaurant,

the Burbys in Quebec with his friend. And he's single, his friend. And he's a real He was like, wow, it's true that I'm not in a relationship yet. That's it! That's exactly it. And I, when he left, I gave him a kiss, and he was with Manu, and they left. Bye bye, lalalala. 20 minutes later, Louis receives a notification on Facebook, to know if he's going to

be in a relationship with me. That's a nice kiss. So, you know, in the car, it seems Louis told me, then he said, like, we were... He was like, fuck bro. It's dead. Joe just asked me in the car, like, it's dead.

It's dead. Manu was like, Manu was like, I just got a cramp in my leg. So yes, obviously, as long as it's not really said, I understand. And even if it. So yes, of course, as long as it's not really said, I understand. And even if it's not said, you know, like I told you, I, with this way of thinking, I see the other one who left, who left, who took a break.

But obviously for me, it's a mistake. Obviously, I live it like you were unfaithful and there's something you didn't respect. Yeah. And then, in addition, if we said to ourselves, like, if we say to ourselves, you're important to me, or you're important to me, etc., there's something that feeds in there. Yeah, it's really culture. We're really a tabard. But you have to have the discussion.

I mean, it doesn't matter, culture, you need to have a discussion and know where you're going. Sometimes it seems like we're so insecure, we don't dare to talk, but we have to talk. It's true, for you it's important that it's the same. Me too, in reality, as long as we're not a couple, I'm like... We're not a couple! And I would never say it, because we weren't a couple! I owe nothing! It's crazy the scenarios we create and buy them to keep it quiet.

We weren't a couple, and I would never tell him because I don't need to tell him. We didn't have a conversation, but something happened. Because I didn't have to tell him what it was, it's like we were saying... I'm flirting a little with the secret. If I don't tell you, there's something that makes me feel very calm with the action I just did. No, because we weren't a couple. No, but it were in a relationship. Absolutely. No, but it's true.

There are things that came back after. Because it's true that we weren't in a relationship. But we were going out again. Then things happened. And it really came out later in the relationship. And I was like, oh, yeah, there's that. I had like... It's true.

It was a bit of a hurry, but it's true, we weren't in a relationship, okay, you know. And then I was like, well, you know, I didn't find it pertinent to tell you, I had the impression that it didn't concern you. And he's like, yeah, it's still fucking flat to hear the same thing. I understand. It's hard to swallow the pill. But you know, me with my sex hat, what comes to mind is like, hey, my sexual health, it's important. Your sexual health is important too your sexual health is also important, I want to know if something is happening, do you protect yourself? Even the pee touch, there may be things. You know, our sexual health, sometimes we tend to forget it, why? Our ego. We haven't had the discussion, but when? There are a lot of things that happen when you have

an intimacy with someone. It's true. It's true. And he often says, he's a clinging dog, I trust him. You don't know until he... Maybe he doesn't know himself. You sleep with 20 people who say they're clinging because they're going to have a baby. They always say that, the doggy, me, before, in my time,

I was always like, don't worry, I'm a clingy dog. You're a bitch. I was really like that, you know, don't worry, I'm clean. I was like, shut up, like no. I was really like, well no. I was pro condom, I was always pro condom, but even with condom, it can happen, there are things, because we agree, I didn't do a fellation with a condom, you know. I would say that,

I ate with a cut condom, you know. I was like, that's going to be beautiful, so there were still risks, but we eliminated them. But hey, about that's going to be beautiful, so there were risks, but we eliminated them. But hey, about that, how to prevent infidelity, I have little tricks, I think. Tell me. I'm a prognosis. No, but tricks that helped me.

Because at the beginning, when I said that I was surrounded by men, really. And I really exposed myself as much as possible. Since for me it was a weakness, at the beginning, I exposed myself. I just took away all the things that you know you're more fragile at the beginning, or that you know it's going to be more difficult. But maybe, take that away. But what did you take away? Well, I removed a Snapchat, totally the same, but I deleted all my exes, I removed all the guys who were writing to me in time, let's say my ex told me to do what she wanted, I was like, ok, block, block, block, all blocked, like that, hey, I wouldn't

answer, they wouldn't write me on the wall, you know? So I took all the the tentative all the tentative all the tentative temptations. You're not going on the island of temptation. It wasn't a temptation. It was really... Louis-Almaner was like, why are you... It wasn't that.

I had no interest. It's just that I was unable to do like... Hey, why would I talk to you? Why would you talk to me? Today, I know. There's no one talking to me. There's someone who writes to me. A guy who writes to me to have a conversation, it doesn't exist anymore. You're blocked.

Yes, I'm blocked. And also, why would I talk to you? Like, Simon who wants to know how I'm doing. How I'm doing? I'm fine, thanks. Bye, have a good day. It's just not to keep it to yourself, which could eventually become something bigger. Why don't we block access right away?

We don't have a phone, we delete it. Again! You have this option, you also have the option to say, I don't want to talk to you, I'm not interested, and to put your limits, and to see you with your... But I can't talk anymore, that's it. I don't answer anymore, actually. These people, there are still, there are some guys who write to me, but I just don't answer them. It doesn't matter, and I have no interest in talking to them,

so I don't do it anymore. Well, it shows that these are choices we make. I choose to be faithful, or I choose to be unfaithful, I choose to keep applications or not. And as you say, you know, it's like a little bit, I'm not going to put myself something that could eventually come to sow the zizanie in my couple. Well yes. I choose that. But at the same time, you could also treat, I'm a little bit of the devil's advocate,

you could also have them very well. Yes, temptation, but don't act on it. Well, today, 100%, it would be more... But I'm talking about the beginning, when I was working on myself. For me, it was the easiest. I had all the people I could get rid of, who could write to me, or whatever. As soon as there was a guy, delete, block me. It was really easier for me. I had no more resources. And I didn't expose myself either.

I had a period where I really didn't go to bars anymore. I had a period where I didn't go to bars anymore. I felt like a little girl. Let's go. And after that, it was okay. I was at home. It was your strategy, but it's true that you can develop it. It's so subjective. Yes, that's it. And it made me want to help. I'm not saying I wasn't going out anymore,

but I didn't expose myself to things that I knew I could have a weakness or whatever. But did you have the communication, the conversation with your Trump to find out where the limit of the flirt, of infidelity is? Well, Louis, yes, clearly Louis, let's say, I told him, did you kiss? Did you? No. I said, where I wasn't feeling good, and that today I wouldn't feel good, why would someone come to the bar and sit down and have a discussion? Clearly, you see that the girl has an interest. Today, I see it, but if a guy comes to see me, I cut him off right away. He said, do you want to drink a glass?

I'm like, no thanks. Why would I say yes? He's like, you have free glasses? No, I don't want to, I paid for my cream glass. I don't want to accept that anymore. Because after that, I put myself in a position where you invite someone to come and pay for a glass. Well, he has to sit next to you.

Well, you have to be brave because he paid for your glass. Refuse, scream, pay your glass. Or accept, but say bye. It's one of the two, but accept. It prevents you from being faithful in the end. Yeah, yeah, I think, accept a glass and then they come with you. For me, I think it's... We go going beyond something. We're transcending something. And that's when we see that infidelity isn't just about sexual activities. It can also be emotional. It can be situated at another level. When I come back with my ex, but to contact your ex because we hear that.

You know, when I take another subject, but when I pay someone in a massage salon with a finishing touch, I'm like, are we in an affinity? I paid. Yes, you. It depends on the relationship. No, no, but for you, I'm talking. I'm not saying it's wrong, but for me, it wouldn't be fatidic.

I'm starting to say, you had a crush, you came to my house, it would be like, for me, you wouldn't do that again. I wouldn't, it's beautiful, you got a haircut, you came to my house, you know what I mean? For me, it would be that you don't do that anymore. It wouldn't be that I wouldn't let it, but for me, I wouldn't accept that anymore. But again, it's a matter of how it's addressed, how... You know, I was with a gang of guys, we were all in a small massage room, I don't know what to do. I kind of want to try. Like a Bachelorette party, you know? You know, I don't know, I don't know, to do. I have the taste to try. Like a Bachelorette party?

I don't know. I would be like, send me a picture of the girl. It will depend on what she looks like. If she's ugly, it's okay. If she's ugly, very very ugly. Oh sorry. But that too. That. When we were in school. I'm going to make you a tablet.

Because if we say yes, wait, because it'm like, it's beautiful, you're going to be like, it's true that it can be cool, you know? If I say yes, I'm like, yes, it's a better way to say it, okay, go ahead, make it look like you're my sister. No problem. But then, do we just open a door? Well, if you say it's not a door I just opened. Well, maybe there,

do you think that's dangerous? Because it's going's not a door that I just opened... Well, maybe there... Do you think that's dangerous? Because it opened a door that... Hey, my God, he knew something different. Do you think it's potentially dangerous? Or do you think we shouldn't, by experience, cross the lines of customers? Well, in your story, I don't think it's dangerous. In the sense that you gave him the authorization.

So it's not going to open a door for him? It depends on each person, I don't know, but I would say that if you already tell him, okay, go ahead, you may think there is no threat in relation to something. It seems that the way you talk about it, there may be something a little light, like, hey, we're used to going,

it's very Quebecois too, to go to strip bars, etc. It's like an experience. There's a cultural side to it. So I can understand that you say, maybe, go ahead, I wouldn't go. I would be too threatening, in many ways. It would be a disrespect.

Because you see, there's culture, there's my way of seeing things, but here it's not the same thing. And he would know from the start, your partner. He would know. If I didn't know, he would know. If you didn't know, you would know. But would you leave him on it or would you...

No, that's what he said. You would leave him... No, no, but it's very personal. Oh, you wouldn't leave him? No. Oh, okay, that's it, that's it. Okay, perfect. Well, I wouldn't let him? No. Oh, okay, that's it. Perfect. I wouldn't let him.

He does what he wants, and he's not in a row. If he does it, we'll discuss it. But if I go with my values, which is important for me, the cursor, I don't move it. Maybe again, you were with your friends, then you went to see a scriptwriter. Okay, you touch? How do you touch? No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

It doesn't fit in the moral contract that we established. I don't know, in my vision of a couple, because it's me, how I would define the values with the other, that you go to bed with a sex worker. No, it's not something that interests me. Even if you pay, even if you have the notion that there is a service, for me it wouldn't make sense. It's for me, it's not something that interests me. Even if you pay, even if you have the notion of how there is a service, for me it wouldn't make sense. It's for me, it's so personal.

There are some for whom it doesn't bother me. But there is really something in there with my values. Or... You also said that infidelity can be in an open couple, in the sense that if the couple is open, but that you specify that you can't sleep with a friend, then you sleep with a friend, it's wrong, even if you were allowed to sleep with someone else. In the case that Joannie said, if you open a door for her, what do you think about the fact that...

you know, is there a bit of the notion of, I give you one meter, you want two? You know? Or if in the end, it doesn't change anything, because the important thing is to respect the limits that are established, you know? I find it so interesting, an open relationship, with someone who is in a polyamorous relationship, you can open doors for yourself, and at the same time, you still choose to be unfaithful.

You choose to cultivate a kind of secret, lies. The human being is badly fucked, but still. You have all the possibilities, we discussed it, we negotiated it before, and still, you want the thing that we determined together. I told you, I don't want you to sleep with her, or I don't want you to sleep with him, it's with her that you're going to do it.

You know, what's going on? What does it talk about? We're attracted to something that we can't have, it seems. And does it also talk about, I put a limit there because I felt your desire too, you know? It also talks about the person who sets that limit. The reason why I don't want you to sleep with her is because I feel threatened by her. Yeah, I feel insecure, it comes to threaten possibly my emotional security. That's like a scenario among so many others.

But often, yes, people who discuss that, I mean, you can go see the prostitutes, I don't feel the sex workers, I don't feel threatened. On the other hand, if you go see Céline from the photocopier, with whom you already have a story, I don't want to. And yet you still decided to go see her. Why? It's difficult. How do you help people who... you know, you say, we always want that. What is the solution to try to... not to do that? Well, I would say that I would discuss, is it something that you are able to respect or not? I want to know. Because if you tell me that I's something you can respect or not.

I want to know. Because if you tell me that you can't respect what you're telling me, I might make a decision that will make sense for me. I want to have all the cards in hand to say, do I stay or do I leave? I think that's where we really need to have an honest and honest discussion and tell ourselves the truth, in all sincerity. And sincerity is not,

I say everything I think and I think what I'm telling you, and I'm going to act in relation to that. In relation to the couple who is trying something, who wants to try it, precisely, to make a trip, to add a person, the moment of a night. What are the feedbacks you have on it, from experience? Do people often feel it? Because often, that's it. You're like, ah, we're going to try it for fun, we're hot, let's go. And boom, it's like what brings you a person into your intimacy for fun, to try.

You think it's not going to be serious, but then there are clearly repercussions. There is something. Have you ever seen yourself in many cases that it broke something? But the question is not like why you do it. Do you do it because you're trying to say it's like a solution to infidelity, and then something a little bit pitiful is missing in our relationship. So we're going to open the couple, we're going to have a plan A3, the story of a night, you know, why do we do it? Because it's not the same posture, it's like if we're together and everything is fine,

then we feel solid, we feel that the foundation is there, then we try something different, why not? But if I do it, then I feel that my relationship is fragile, will it really bring me something? Will it really feed me? Because if I do it by saying, okay, there was some infidelity, I think that in our sexual life, it's not so good, so we're going to try something new.

But wait, there are already fragilities, there's something that's not healed, we'll even have another person. There's jealousy that can also go in there. And then what happens if jealousy is a thread? If I start comparing myself, if I see that you're doing things or that you're more excited with the person

that we just brought back than when we're just the two of us. Because there, it's a moment, but it remains that our sexuality, it's going to be just you and me most of the time. So you start, if they want to bring someone, you advise that the cut be on point, strong, that they have been together for a long time and that they have really established something. Work your foundations. That's a little bit what you have to do. You have to add a sub-body.

Before adding someone else. Already being at two is complicated. To add a third person. That's what I think. Oh my god. Especially if it's to come and try to patch something. You don't want to do more damage than there is already in your couple. Maybe we want to take care of it. I'm not saying not to do it.

I mean, we do it, but we do it in good conditions. We don't do it to weaken or to shoot a bullet in the foot. That's where I think we need to be careful. There are two schools of thought. That opening a relationship, if you were to be cheated on, you would be cheated on anyway. But is it... opening the door... de toute façon. Mais est-ce que d'ouvrir la porte, c'est quand même d'ouvrir la porte à plus de tentations, donc plus de possibilités?

Tu sais, est-ce que d'ouvrir le couple finalement pourrait... Tu sais, si tu t'imagines perdre quelqu'un, perdre ton partenaire, mais tu te dis « mais je vais ouvrir la porte, je vais garder... » Tu sais, il va avoir plus de possibilités, il I'll open the door, I'll keep... You know, there will be more possibilities, there is less reason to go there. But it still remains more possibilities to lose the person. I don't know if I'm clear. Yeah, but you know, it seems like I'm asking myself... You know, we're talking about sexuality, but if you're afraid of losing the other, is it really about sexuality that you're going to lose him? It's not about anything else.

But if the person falls in love, you know? Yeah. And it's a risk, actually, because the more you have an intimacy... People have to be aware, anyway. The more you have an intimacy with someone, the more there is a chance that one of the two falls in love, or that the two fall in love. It's a reality. There will be people who will say, I'm going to manage to keep it casual. But it remains that there is this possibility. And it must not fall into dead ends.

That's why covering the couple is beautiful, but it also comes with all the advantages, but also the disadvantages, in any case things where you can't close your eyes. It's not magic, it's not a magical solution. I don't think that's necessarily what can make it fix something. We need to do some work in advance and then add ingredients. And it can never be a past ingredient. It can.

Absolutely. It can. And you know, sometimes people feel like it's really at the level of their sexuality, that it's possible. Yes, absolutely. It's possible. Yes. And you know, sometimes people feel that it's really at the level of their sexuality that it gets stuck. But it's possible that it's not there, that it's there. It's possible that we talk about relationships, that we talk, we never questioned our relationship again. Like, we need to make a assessment, it's possible that it's about oneself.

Like me, I need to live things, or I need to put myself in danger to see if I'm still attached to my relationship. Is there a type of person who is more inclined to cheat? Someone who, let's say, someone's childhood or... are there people who are more likely to cheat? Well, in any case, I don't think about what I know or what I see. I don't think about it. I really think, as I said at the beginning of the show, that loyalty or infidelity is a choice.

I choose to do it or I choose not to do it. It's behavioral. I can be tempted, I can find beautiful, attractive people, etc. Does that mean that I will cross the barrier? No. But I could. But it will really be because I chose to take steps. Do you think that all humans are fundamentally monogamous or... you know, you talked about ... you talked about it earlier, that you don't think we're with the DNA of infidelity. But do we have the DNA of monogamy?

I don't think so either. I don't think so either. In any case, it hasn't been scientifically proven. Well, we come from the monkey, so monkey... The monkeys I saw, they're not really in a relationship. It's the sleep party. It's everywhere, it's everywhere. It's... you know, it's... Yeah, but we have a brain,

we have values, we have... We have a reflection, we have all that too. But I think that fundamentally, we're not made, I think. We're a bit primate, we're not made for that. I think we could be beaten everywhere, you know?

But... There's nothing in the end. I don't think so. But with the values we have, with the intelligence, everything we've developed, the system we have, we're capable. I believe in it. But it requires work. It won't be easy all the time. So, you know, people say, oh, to see that he answered, he thought of her. It's part of life. There will be obstacles. There will be people who will cross you. There are people who will... It's going to happen all the time. There will be some. And my husband too, I'm aware that Kripp is a good man.

There are girls who are going to crush him. And at least, I'm going to do it. It's mine, bitches. So it happened to me. I was like, oh my god. But that's it. I think we're not made for that. But as you say, we work for that.

We choose. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's in the end, You choose. You choose or not? Yes, we are imperfect beings, that's for sure. We are like imperfect beings. We are non-healed people. We come with stories where it's not totally, maybe, finished. It's also correct.

We're going to work on it. The other one too. But what are we going to do with our story? In which direction do we choose to go? That's what's important. And maybe at some point on our journey, we're going mistakes. Maybe at some point, we'll escape it. But what do we do and how do we work? That's what's important.

I think it's beautiful what you say, because on the networks, we hear everything we hear. We did a podcast on infidelity. We were reading stories of people who had been unfaithful or who had suffered from infidelity. And in the comments, people were shocked a lot. And it was like, hey, never, let's see, no. And we commented on it. We said how we would react, oh, okay, that, you know, for me, it would pass, or whatever.

And it seems that there is a lot of people's opinion, you know, people say so much that it's a lot of people's opinion, you know, people say it's so unforgivable, and that, well, no, it's over, you have to let it go if you're wrong, that it seems like it came to our heads, that, oh my God, Samarit, I have to let it go, you know. And what you say, that we can work it, and that we can, if you want, you know,

if you want to work it afterwards, and that we work on it, it's fun to hear that. I think it's a great approach, and it's true that we are human beings, and that we are all imperfect. I think it's beautiful. So, bravo for having that approach. Thank you. But at the same time, you see, I'm going back to what people put on the networks, because it's still quite incredible. You know, people, they allow themselves to put comments, they are hidden behind their screens. But in reality, when infidelity happens,

are you also black or white? I'm not sure. Often it's like we know, but it can be unforgivable for some people. It can be too far, and then it's also correct. There are people who won't survive infidelity, and it's also a reality. Will they not survive because they take the baby in charge too late? Will they not survive because the couple was already in agony, and it's a bit of a logical sequence?

There's that too, but it's true that some people can't do it, that it's too difficult, or they think they'll get there, and then they'll finally look at their partner and say, I can't do it. I can't. You went too far, my confidence is broken. And then each time I imagine you finally going through it, and I can't live with that. There are some who are in that case too. Unfortunately, it's one of the consequences, and we never know how we're really going to react or where we we going to be in our heart at that moment? But it's also, you know, there's the aspect of like, you crossed the path, but you knew it was going to be worth it.

You knew that you had a chance to lose me. You did that knowing that you might lose me and you did it anyway. You didn't choose me. That's it, a little. A kind of... It's true. Or you know, you have that, and I imagine those who start a relationship,

while they've met in something a little bit adult, extra-conjugal, okay, you've ended up leaving your chum or your blonde, but it's like when you see your partner, you say, I know you can do it. You know, yes, you start the relationship, and then you want to, but you still have this little voice in your head. Oh, I know you can do it. I was there, we start like that. It's not easy, but it's part of a possible scenario. And what you shouldn't forget is that you often wonder,

yes, but is it forgivable? Can I heal? These are good questions. Even if it's forgivable, even if we choose to forgive, we choose to heal, it doesn't mean we're going to forget, it doesn't mean there won't be any residues of what happened. We're going to write a new part of the story,

but that story stays, it stays, and we're going to carry things with us. We might be in a let-go. And let-go, what is it? It's like, I'm able to have the thought there, but to remove the toxic side, to remove the side that hurts. But I'm still able to have that thought and to live with it. It's part of it.

Time repairs a lot too. There are things that after six months, you can still be a little jaded, where you say, hey, I don't want to bring you back, I don't want to make you feel guilty, but I have another question, something that I would like you to clarify. And with time, well, quietly, it can never disappear, but it's dissipated a little. A little, yeah. And time, just time, I don't think it's enough, you know,

because sometimes we can say to ourselves, like, yes, time, and then I put things on the carpet. What am I doing during this? What am I doing? You know, time passes, but what am I doing? What do I put as a concrete action, or my reflections, or etc. So it's, yes, time is important,

but it's also, again, what are we going to do? How are we going to take things into our own hands? But it's true that time will perhaps deconstruct things, we will perhaps be less attached to our emotions, because when the crisis comes, you have this emotional chaos. I love you, I want you to stay, but no, get out! I want stability, but no, I want exploration too, with you. Oh, maybe not with you, but if finally it's... You know, we're in there, we're mixed.

And that's where you shouldn't make big decisions when you're in this emotional chaos. We need to wait for the dust to come down. My little baby, what she said is that for two years, our hormones, she said we're not the same people. You know, moms, especially, we're not... She said we're not the same. We have all our love people. Mothers, especially, we're not the same.

We have all our love, all our energy, and we dedicate 90% to our little baby, during the first two years, especially. It takes a lot of our time, all our time. As soon as we're at home with our baby, it's our baby. Clearly, you don't take care of your partner while you're with him, you know. That's why it's important to take moments outside and, you know, without the baby. But we're more tired, we're less, you know.

And that's what I said to Louis yesterday. It's true, it's crazy how, you know, we had Soléane at the age of 3 and a half, 4 years old. And then it took, like, you know, after 2 years, it looked like we were starting to, whew, take it again, you know, really, and then, oh, we have Luane, we're, and we're not sleeping yet, and then,

it's, it's, it's heavy, that's what it's like, so I'm like, you don't have to, I'm really trying not to hit, I don't want to put it on, it's not the cut, you know, it's really the fact that Crème Ciba, we're not sleeping, can you like, try to be nice, you know, you have to be patient with us, we don't want to put that on... It's not the couple. It's really the fact that the crime is so good, we don't sleep. We can't... It's the gentleness. You have to be patient with us. We don't have patience anymore. I'm more irritated.

I'm not angry anymore. I'm more like... little things like... It's making me angry. Much more. So yeah. It's not an easy reality. But at the same time, I'm kind of like the devil's advocate.

You shouldn't wait for the child to go to the nursery to say, hey, let's sit down to make a little assessment on our group. Are we doing well? Right now, the other one is saying, but in fact, I'm not feeling well at all. Yeah. Because sometimes, you know,

more we wait, then I understand, you know, that reality is what it is. But you shouldn't push too much. In fact, even if nothing happens or things don't go as they used to, you still have to think about how you're going to take some time to get over it and to talk about it. I often see couples who come to consultations. At some point, they're like that, they're next to each other,

but they're no longer together, they're no longer connected. And no matter what happens in your life, try to stay connected, try to look at yourself. Maybe you see people at the restaurant, they are on their cell phones like that. They are on a date, they are on their cell phones, they don't even take the time to connect, they don't even take the time to position themselves. You see that the energy is not the same when you're like that in front of the other, versus when you're just next to it and then you have to turn your head a little.

And that, I think there is something important to not lose it, no matter what happens. It's because what I noticed, let's say in my case, I had a tendency to use it as my main pillar, my partner. So it made that the rest of my life I put a lot of energy, but my partner, I said to myself, oh, that's fine. So I don't need to put energy in it, it will support everything else.

But imagine the pressure it is for a partner to say, you're my co-parent, you're my chum, you're my best friend, you're... You make my sandwiches. You make my sandwiches in the morning, you're my lover. Well, it's for sure that there are some who will want to get away from that too, and you know, all the pressure, well, at some point, you know, you may want to go see, to watch look elsewhere and get out of that role.

Esther Perel, who talks about that, who writes the book, I love you, I'm wrong, who explains really well, finally, that sometimes we put so much hat on our partner, who must be my lover, my best friend, my spiritual master, the person who helps me to do my finances, my confidant, etc. And it's a lot, whereas, you know, you need a whole village, when you look to raise a child. And that's when you see that

you want to spread the burden, and you can't ask for everything from the same person. And it's true that you can have a tendency to fall for it, but why? Because you're in an ideal vision, in a romantic vision of the couple. You are my everything, you are the person with whom I will realize all my projects, etc.

I put all my eggs in the same basket, but there is something we need to balance. And in addition, you do not put energy on your relationship and you use it just as a support, as a support for the rest of your life. at some point it may be that it breaks. It may be that it breaks, it may be that the person makes bad decisions, it may be that there is infidelity, not always, but it may be that sometimes there is that too. If I give everything to work and then I bring the crumbs home, it's complicated. You must never take for granted. No. Only... Never, never, never. And you see that relationships are work, they're efforts. Sometimes I hear people say, but it's supposed to be easy.

Where does it say it's supposed to be easy? Where does it say relationships are easy? Even with our parents, even with our friends, and even more with our husband. If you live with, in any case, it's the person you spend the most time with, with whom you have a lot of expectations. No, it's effort, it's work. It's like going to the gym, you want results. It's not just I put a foot in the gym, it's like I do exercises and I put actions for. At some point there are like your chocolate tablets that will grow. But you needed to make efforts and it's work, a relationship. What advice would you give to a couple?

What is the ideal relationship to keep this connection, even with or without children? What would be the basic advice you would give? You know, concrete. I know we need to talk. But concretely, is there a moment in the day that we should ideally take? Or would it be once a week? What is the best? I've already been curious about each other.

And to stay curious, create opportunities for being. Go to an event where your partner is doing something and you're going to look at it with admiration. You may see something you didn't see before, or you didn't see anymore. It allows you to touch something. It's not something I see in my daily life, it's exciting. You're not necessarily excited about the sexual sense, but it's exciting to see yourself in an element where you're fully confident. I think that's something, it's a beautiful gift to make.

It's true. I'm going to see him on the day of the hockey game on Thursday. Well, yes, go ahead. It's true that he's coming to the game tonight with your two kids. Hey, no, I didn't tell you to go. I said, no, Louis, you stay at home. I think that's what it's going to bring a flame. He's going to pull you, he's. He will call my good girls tonight.

If I had been the master, maybe he would have been excited. I'm a little bit pissed. He's like a chihuahua who's always jibbing. It's beautiful. Louis, you're going to stay here with the kids, okay? He's like, why? I'm like, yeah. You don't want to stay here with the kids.

That's it. But okay, talk. That's it. But that's a very good thing. Thank you. Yeah, really to stay curious and to create opportunities. You know, if I'm all the time in my daily life, just being at home, being on TV, there's nothing going on.

There, we can... The routine, in stability, there's something nice. I don't think it's about compliance or anything. There's something important. But what do we do with it? What do I do with this routine? How am I still with you in my daily life? What's important for me, what lit me up at the beginning,

is that we send each other texts all day, we call each other from time to time. Hey, I thought of you. It's really everyone who's going to place the cursor, but to see for yourself what's important, what's still alive in your relationship? I need my boyfriend to value me. They tell me that I am beautiful.

They tell me that you are important. I bought a book, whoever it is, who says to me, ah, okay, but what does it talk about? Why are you interested, etc. Take this curiosity, take this connection. If there is no more, it becomes complicated. And then Bertrand comes in and says, What are you reading? I'm interested. Does it talk about you?

Well, you do it! Possibly. Bertrand. She chose the name Bertrand. Do you have any books you'd like to recommend, or sites, or whatever, for people who listen to us. Yeah, you know, I love you, I'm wrong, Esther Perel, that's really not bad. You have Rejoice, you, by Emily Nagowski, which is not bad too, which brings, which speaks of love, which speaks of relationships too, on a scientific side, that's what comes to mind.

You have the Five Wounds of the soul of Louise Bourbeau, which also helps you to look at what's going on in your heart and what's going on. That's really what I think is nice about personal growth. You know, I love you, I'm cheating on you. It's not a book about infidelity. It's a book about love relationships, but it takes it through the lens of infidelity,

because it gives us a lot of indications about jealousy, about what is important, about expectations, about discussion, yes, about infidelity. But it's really a book that talks to you about love relationships, and that offers you several scenarios. And I think there can be something comforting about it. I read it and I also found that there were some provocative things, you know. It seems to me that that's what I read. I read a book on infidelity.

It seems to me that I felt confronted at several times in my reading. Do you remember if there was something that... I think she talks a little, not inevitably, but you know, I think I was at a stage where I was more insecure in my relationship, and she was talking about scenarios that confronted me too. So it can be a reading that is challenging too, I think. That it's not a habit in her speech that it's precisely, it's probably going to happen temptations or whatever?

Well, yeah, maybe. You know, talking about the fact that... You know, you can't say, I don't want you to feel anything in your head. I don't want your head to find another beautiful girl. You know, it's like being crazy. You know, when you're very insecure, that's not it. That's not my case right now. I'm able to accept that they find other women. It's really okay. But you know, when you're far from your insecurities,

it can be difficult to read. Yeah, yeah. But it seems like I see what passage you're talking about in the book. And it's true that when you're flustered, when you're emotionally fragile, it can be difficult. Because I think if we talk about the same passage, at some point there's a chapter where she says, in fact, the guy tells her that he will continue to be attracted to other women. But he says to his partner, he wants to tell his partner, no, no, it's not true.

But she tells him, is it really honest, honest, authentic what you're saying? And he says, no, it's true that I will continue to be attracted to other women. Then it's a reality. And in fact, she leads him to say, no, it's true that I will continue to be attracted by other women, because it's a reality. And in fact, she leads him to say, OK, but is there a way for you to use it, and then finally you can reassure your partner by telling him, well, it's true that I will continue to be attracted by other women. And on the other hand, I love you so much, you're so important to me,

that I'm going to choose to be faithful. But it's true that it's part of me. And it's true that there are people who will assume it by saying, you know, they will say, I'm a man to a woman, or I'm a woman to a man. But to hear someone who assumes it, who says, hey, it's true that I'm like that, it's not obvious, especially if we're in a period where we're fragile.

But again, the person can choose to tell you, because I love you, because you're important, and because I saw that it really shook our couple, I don't want it to happen again, so I'm going to choose to be with you. And if there's something, I'll talk to you about it. But we're not perfect. No. It's like that, it's not obvious.

And even for me, it's something I work on. It's like accepting that nothing is guaranteed. You can't have a guarantee on anything. It's guaranteed that you're going to die. That's it. But you can never know if the other person is going to cheat on you. I'm not going to be fooled. It's a possibility too.

That's false. But we come with our insecurities, our wounds. How am I going to live infidelity? It starts with... If it comes to play a role ofurities, our wounds, how I'm going to live infidelity. It also starts from... If it comes back to play, I don't know, a risk of rejection, of abandon, etc. It comes back to play other risks. It's part of the experience of human beings. We're badly screwed, in the end, right? Reinclusion... Sophie, thank you so much for this beautiful discussion. You're really interesting, you're passionate, you're kind and everything.

I would like us to do a little therapy. Yeah, that's it. I'm making up a lot of winning recipes. Yeah, but I really want you to start again, you know, like the others, but with the idea that if there is a fidelity, it's a chapter of his life. Yes, beautiful. It's not the whole book. And it's possible that for you, the chapter, it's like, no, it's...

It has to stop, it has to be too much, and it's also correct. But it's also correct to say, it's a small part, and it doesn't mean that because that happened, the person I love doesn't love me anymore, or that she doesn't want to be with me anymore. It doesn't mean that, it means a lot of other things, but it's not mandatory that it stops. There's all the life we've had before, and there's all the life we can create now, starting from that point. And I think that's fundamental to internalize it. There will be situations that are not obvious, but we will look at how to face them.

And it's an even more reason that makes, you know, when a situation comes up and your friends say, well, yeah, we're going to get it, or whatever, you know, not to... So you should never say that. Imagine coming back with it, you're the colon who tries to separate them. You shouldn't get involved. You do... How do you feel about that? That's it. If you are a friend, that you have a friend who is experiencing this, like even if you, well, in fact, you don't know, because you're a friend, you have a friend who experiences that. Even if you...

Well, you don't know because you're not in a relationship with that person, but that's it. To pay attention to what we... And not to trust the opinion of others. Because clearly, if we listen to the opinion of others, it's unforgivable. We're not in a relationship with others. We're not in a relationship with others. And maybe also tell our friend that everything she's experienced with her chum or her blonde, it existed and it was real. It doesn't take away anything from their story.

And there can be something... Sorry. Would you like to stay with us on Patreon? We have questions for you again. People. So it's a little 10, 15 minutes. Vamos, vamos nos. Thank you, Sophie.

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