Shaun Newman Podcast - #1009 - Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

Tanner Hnidey is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic and author. We discuss Galatians 5, food addiction, Paul writing letters to the city of Corinth, and the peace that you find with faith in Jesus. Tickets to Cornerstone Forum 26’: https://www.showpass.com/cornerstone26/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Viva Fry. I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. This is Tom Lomago. This is Chuck Pradnik. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is J.P. Sears. Hi, this is Frank Paredi.

This is Tammy Peterson. This is Danielle Smith. This is James Lindsay. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. How's everybody doing today? Okay, today is March 2nd.

What that means for you is, today is the deadline for a couple different things. The first, did you know you can have physical gold and silver to your registered accounts. Today is the final day to make contributions. Contributions to those accounts. I'm yes, I'm talking your RRSP, your TFSA, your RRIF, or your kids RESP. Once a contribution is made, you can invest it into physical precious metals at any time, but the big thing, folks, today's March 2nd. So make sure you're making your contributions. The other thing, just to give a quick shout out to ignite distributions, is their filter sale, deadline, is today. And so you might want, want to give them a call.

They got up to 50% saving on all on more. Holy man, on more. Holy crap. Monday. Save 50% or more on all Napa Gold filters. Can I spit that out? Holy moly. March 2nd. Today's the deadline for that too.

You can give Ignite distribution to call 7808423433. Now, back to silver and gold, okay? The current price is silver. 128.07. As I sit here, that's Canadian. Gold, 7205, and 80 cents. There you go. That's the updated, the old silver wagon on the charge by the looks of it. And over the weekend, with Iran being bombed, you just, you know, there's a lot going on there. And we're going to have an interesting week. We got a few different people coming on this week to talk about, oh, I don't know, some geopolitics. So we'll buckle up for that. Before, we get any further. Let's, let's carry on here. So if you're looking silver gold bull, you're looking for precious metals, silver gold bull, obviously with all their in-house solutions, whether buying, selling, restoring, precious metals, you can text your email grant for details with any questions you have around investing in precious metals or for future silver deals exclusively

offered to you the SNP listener. Bull Valley Credit Union, yes, they've opened up in a red deer. It's just a lending and advice center that's now in Red Deer as they work towards opening a full service branch. It's all about lending deposits and real financial advice. You can open accounts, talk through lending options, and get help with banking all in a space designed for conversations, not transactions. If you want smarter banking with gold, silver, Bitcoin, sound money, and personal freedom, BVCU, now open in Red Deer, and for all your banking needs, head to bow valleycuh.com. Profit River, when you're looking for firearms here in Canada, look no further than Profitriver. Profitriver.com.

major retailer of firearms, optics, and accessories. They serve all of Canada. They can do it over the phone in person or, of course, online, once again, Profitriver.com. When you're looking for quality wood, don't look any further than Windsor Plywood here in Lloydminster. They've helped with putting the wood in the, I don't know, the studio table that I'm staring at right now, all the way to all the wood in the new studio. When you're looking for character wood, whether we're talking mantles, decks, windows, doors, shed, studio tables, studio tables, studio. in general look to Carly Coss and the team over at Windsor Plywood. The Cornerstone Forum, March 28th, we are now under a month away, okay?

We have 15 tickets left. That is what is left. So, and by the time I've recorded this, it's probably less than that. So don't wait anymore. 15 tickets left. And, well, I mean, the countdown is on. It is just around the corner, March 28th, man alive. We're into March.

The sun is shining. it's a Monday. Happy Monday, everyone. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, Facebook, substack, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review. If you're enjoying the show, share with a friend, and have a great Monday, folks. It's going to be an interesting week by the looks of it. Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape.

Today's guest is an economist, freelance speaker, social critic, and author. I'm talking about Tanner today. So buckle up. Here we go. All right, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Tanner Nadee. How are you doing, sir? I'm great.

How are you? Oh, I'm doing great. We were just chatting about if we'd read Marcus Aurelius, meditations. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I read it. But my next thought is, because I was just thinking about this yesterday, my next thought was, but I need to read it again, because I'm a completely different person. So when I read it, I think I was just about to have, or just had our third job. And some of it registers and some things just don't.

It's kind of like, you know, we talk about Romans and I'm sure we're going to get into it today. But like, I read Romans two, three years ago now, 20, 23, probably. And so three years later, I flip back through there and I go, huh. Yeah. Right? So, I mean, there's lots of books I've read, but I'm doing it with. I did it with movies too, right? Like I watched The Godfather as like a 20-year-old.

I was like, that movie, I just like the last 10 minutes or whatever it is, right? Then I watched it like a year ago, maybe a little less. I was on the edge of my seat for three hours and I'm like, this might be the most brilliant movie I've ever seen. And too much of society is sunny. They're just too emotional. They get triggered by everything. Think of what social media is trying to do to us.

Yeah. It's trying to trigger you at all time so that you get sucked into the story. or whatever, and then you spend more time on the app. I mean, you turn it off, and all of a sudden, I was saying even before, with the kids, we, last couple nights, there's just been no, nothing. TV, I even removed like the, whatever it is, out of the back of the TV that makes it a smart TV, because I don't have one of those fancy new TVs I got to know one. And I just put it up on the shelf.

I'm like, nah, not doing it. I think the kids are happier. I'm almost positive they are. Yeah, I don't doubt it. Sure. Why not? You get all of that mental exercise, all of that physical exercise. too and the entire apparatus of the person it runs more efficiently and you know in a in an acceptable

manner according to paul even he says that physical training is good but then he says spiritual training's better so all of that yeah we live in a society where we are trying to you know not we but you have all of these individuals who are trying to make everyone as mundane and banal as possible and, you know, so many people just live a life of, of, it's this, it's this monotone life. Nothing really changes. Go home, watch TV for six hours a day, do it again next day. And then, and then at the end, it's all done. And then you have to meet the Almighty and then, you know, are judged.

I've been doing this study on Corinthians with our Bible study, First Corinthians, and I have been so shocked. Shocked, but just, yeah, shocked maybe at how prevalent Paul's discussion on rewards is and how important it is for a Christian to do good works, not to be saved, he's already saved, but to inherit rewards when it comes to judgment from Christ. And that has, you know, even convicted me lately because it's like, don't you want to get a nice reward from Jesus? You know, wouldn't you be so excited to be able to throw crowns at his feet and all of those things? And so that, that teaching has anguish. anchored itself lately into my heart so that we can, you know, go forth and try and encourage as many other Christians as possible to also engage in good works. Again, not to be saved,

but so that you and I as Christians can be rewarded. And my conviction is that doing nothing with one's life won't, I don't believe that will generate rewards. So go out there and be active. Yeah, solid start, hey. Can't beat Paul. So my contention My contention with Marcus Aurelius and meditations Is that he pours forth all of this wisdom But unlike Paul He doesn't really do a whole lot with it

He just writes about it You know Paul has two aspects He has both aspects that are necessary You know it's one thing to write down wisdom Great It's another thing to go out there into the world And as Paul says in what 2 Corinthians 2nd Corinthians 11

be persecuted very viciously for it. So Paul has the activity that I would argue Marcus Aurelius doesn't have. And to be entirely honest, that difference comes from the fact that according to Paul, the wisdom of the world, like Marcus Aurelius's wisdom, is foolishness in God's sight. And what Marcus Aurelius would consider wise, no, what Paul would consider wise is what Marcus Aurelius, at least in some parts, would consider foolish, namely the cross. So that's 1 Corinthians. And that I think differentiates those two men.

And it differentiates a lot of wise thinkers today too. You know, Christians have an obligation to use the minds that God has given them to do well, but also to put that into practice. You know, it's very easy, especially for me, I find it very easy to just retreat into a little office like this. It's a great studio. And I can sit here for hours. And, you know, you read and study and write and all those things great.

but that is just one aspect of Christianity, right? Christ says in Matthew 28, go forth, go into the world and proclaim and, you know, do what's righteous and just. And so that other aspect has to be introduced into the equation or else it's incomplete. Can't beat Paul. Well, you know my thoughts on Paul. Yeah. Paul is, you're not alone in those thoughts either. profound is probably the word I would associate to it.

I don't know the inner work. I don't know everything about Marcus Aurelius, full stop. So I can't sit here and put them side by side or even judge them. But I guess when I look at things now, I'm like, if you aren't talking about Jesus, and you're trying to make profound thoughts and understand the world. I'm like, well, you're fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Maybe both arms tied behind your back, right? So like to compare the two of them, I'm like, well, it's,

Kind of a hard comparison, but I actually don't know the way Marcus was used and everything else. I just know he wrote a really profound book. Yeah. And every time I think, oh, this is such a profound book, even Peterson and how much it's influenced my life. Then I start reading the Bible and I'm like, oh, there's that where that came from. Oh, and there's where another piece of a camera. But that isn't to take away their works of what they've done. They've done and had extreme or powerful effects on the earth probably.

Yeah. and the people that inhabit it. And so, like, you can't take that away from him. It's just, like, compare Paul. It's like, Paul wrote, like, how much of the New Testament? Yeah. No, that's the kicker. Where I get my, where I get this comparison from is First Corinthians, the first few chapters.

So, Paul found a church in Corinth, the city of Corinth. Here's a little backstory. It's very, very interesting. Corinth was a Greek city, and it was conquered after standing for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. And it lay dormant for a few years after that until it was rebuilt by Rome. And because of its geographical location, it became immensely wealthy and powerful. So Corinthian, or Corinth was situated on, and I wish I could pronounce it. I struggle to pronounce this word. It's itthmus, you know, where it was structured in a place where sailors could come up from

the northern country. And instead of going all the way around the world, the known world at that time, to get to where they wanted to go, they could take a shortcut, and they would cut into this isthmus. And there was Corinth, and they had a land bridge there, just a few miles wide. And sailors would port. They would either unload their ships, carry their goods across the port, and load them back up to then continue on their way on a different ship, or they'd bring the entire ship across land using this big land bridge.

And it was, yeah, brilliant. Anyways, and they'd launch again, and they'd go back to where they wanted to. or they'd sail where they wanted to go. They saved a lot of time, and it was much more safe to do so. Corinth controlled the ports, so Corinth was incredibly wealthy. Paul sets up a church there, and he recognizes that not only is Corinth wealthy, Corinth is very immoral. Very bad, bad, bad people.

You know, they engage in a lot of prostitution, and they're just, yeah, they're like a lot of individuals who have no regard for any sort of law or, you know, any desire to do righteousness, whatsoever. They're just wild. So he sets up this church and he leaves after staying there for a little while. He goes to Ephesius. And when he's in Ephesias, he hears a report from a member of the church, Chloe, her people. They travel to Ephesius and they give Paul reports and updates on the church. And eventually Paul says, I have to write a letter because this is ridiculous. What's happening in the Corinthian church at this time, it's like in middle 50s-ish. Yeah, somewhere in there. What's happening at this time is

the Corinthian church is acting like Corinthians. They're being very, very immoral. And Paul's hearing about all of this. And he writes them a letter to say, you're immoral, and as a consequence, your church is divided. You have all of these different factions in the church, and now I'm going to tell you why these factions exist.

And the first reason he says, you have all of this division in the church, right? He says, which is strange, you shouldn't have that because Christ is one. So how could you as the body of Christ be more than one? But anyway, he says, the reason you have all of this division in the church is because you are treating Christianity like another philosophical school. You are comparing it to the school of Plato and the school of

Zeno and the school of Aristotle and the school of Marcus Aurelius. And you are treating it like one school among the many. And Paul goes, you can't do that. It isn't the same. It's on a totally different plane of existence. So when you Corinthians go into the public square and you say, well, you know, I follow Jesus or I follow the teachings of Paul or I follow the teaching. of Peter or whoever it might be. He said, you're treating it like those other wise men and their schools of thought. And it just, it doesn't work. And he said, the reason it doesn't work is because the gospel is not obtained by wisdom

and the wisdom of the world. Paul goes, give me one wise man. Marcus Aurelius wasn't there yet. But he said, you know, he says, Marcus Aurelius or Aristotle or Zeno or Socrates, whatever. He says, give me one of them that arrived at the conclusion of course. Christianity on their own with all of their wisdom. And the conclusion is you can't. They didn't do that. Far from, they didn't get to the truth of the gospel. So Paul says, because of that, God decided to reveal it using foolishness. The cross. Cross was embarrassing. The cross was

a shame. It was for criminals and for those who were convicted. And you as a Corinthian or any other Roman of status would not dare associate with, you know, yourself with the cross because it was so shameful. And Paul says, but that's the manner that God used to introduce Christianity to the world. And so when you try and compare it with the other wise schools, it just whole thing collapses, falls apart. So he goes, even though, you know, Zeno and Socrates and so, and they have wisdom. Sure, he said, they just, they don't, they don't arrive at the ultimate wisdom, the ultimate truth, which is Christ. That has to come from heaven through the spirit. So that's how I, that's how I compare it. Those men, there is, there is wise teaching in what they say. Totally.

There's wisdom in what a lot of secular authors say, no doubt about it. But when it comes to that ultimate wisdom, it's only from heaven from the spirit. Yeah. That's the, that's the dichotomy of scripture. So when, you know, when the wise men of the world, the intellects say, well, Christianity's stupid. We go, yeah, we expect you to say that. Because, because it's every, that you did not arrive at. I don't know what to even add to that. I don't know. What a sharp.

Isn't Paul sharp? I mean, the spirit's guiding him. Like, wow. Yeah, well, I mean, that's probably why it's so sharp.

Yeah, that's a big reason. Don't kid yourself. Paul was learned. The guy, like, he studied. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also, yeah, it's also the spirit. Yeah, but I mean, like, yeah, but he can't get there by himself. I mean, he's killing everybody

and persecuting and everything else, and then Jesus stops him on the road and says, hey, what are you doing? Yeah, that's right. And he says that. So, like, I mean, it doesn't matter how learned a man is.

Actually, it's probably the opposite. I would say the scriptures talk a lot about probably worse for a learned man. Yeah, it is. So Paul says that. He goes, you Corinthians, he says, you're proof that the gospel goes to those who are foolish. He said, kids, you guys weren't very smart. It's almost humorous. He goes, you sure weren't Aristotle or Socrates, and yet you received the gospel.

because it's difficult for the kings of the world, for the wise men of the world, for all of the men of status of the world to understand it. Because as a Christian, you're not supposed to, you know, Christians aren't supposed to pursue this great political power. So the kings of the world go, that's weird. Why would I follow that? And the wise men of the world, you know,

Christianity isn't supposed to elevate you as the wisest person to ever live. So the wise men go, that doesn't make sense. That seems weird. My reason didn't lead me to this. And the men of status realized that Christ, didn't exactly live a life of status. So they go, that's weird. Why would I follow that?

It's difficult for those individuals to believe because it's so contrary to their way of life. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Well, I don't know. Some of the wisest guys I know, right? Yeah. Talk about it.

Yep. But on fairness to that, I'm like, a few years ago, I wouldn't listen to word they said. Yeah, well, that's the kicker. But I mean, but what is once again, and I've talked about this lots. I read every morning, one of the Proverbs, according to the date.

Yeah. And what does it say? Wisdom standing at the gate, shouting. Yeah. And I'm like, portrayed as a woman. Yeah. I'm like, it's funny. I'm like, when you think about that, it's like, it's sitting there.

Literally going. Right there. Yeah. Hey, I'm right here. Yeah. And if you don't listen, which I would argue, I didn't listen. I bet. Sure.

You know, millions upon billions. Billions. Yeah. Didn't listen. No. They didn't listen to Christ. You're right. But it talks about, you know,

once again, Proverbs talks about wisdom being there in the first days. Yep. Right? Yeah. So you go, wait a second.

I'm going to think about that for a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Someday a wonderful move on from Proverbs. That's a pretty good book. I've been reading it month after month. Yeah. Just over and over again.

And I still sit there and go, oh, that's a thought. Yeah. That is a thought. Yeah. That wisdom literature between Proverbs and Job and Ecclesiastes. Those are the big wisdom.

literature books in the Old Testament. And Proverbs is just, Proverbs is sharp. That's what, like, like, you know, the Solomon, he is, he, um, I appreciate his brevity. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. New wisdom, new wisdom, new wisdom.

Wow. Yeah. Whereas Job is so poetic. And Ecclesiastes seems more. Not so. Yeah. Ecclesiastes is a tougher one to understand. But it's a good book too.

Well, it's just, I don't know if I'm writing this, but ecclesiator, uh, sorry, Ecclesiastes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ecclesiastes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, it just feels like an older man, doesn't he? Yeah, that's what it feels like. And it feels, yeah, because I think the core teaching of that book is Jesus' teaching in Matthew 6, 33 and 34.

It's stop worrying about tomorrow and stop reminiscing about the past. Just enjoy today. That's the teaching, I guess. Well, there's enough problems in today. There's enough problems in today. Yeah, you can get so overwhelmed. But, you know what's funny, I don't know. know about you, Tanner. I was sitting there yesterday. And I was having one of those days where

you know, like, I, Dustin was making fun of me this morning, right? Because I was talking about my staff, in fact, he's like, yeah, if you listen to the podcast, everybody's heard about it. I'm like, well, it sucked. And I don't mean to make it bigger than it is. I'm just like, you know, like, it just sucked. I didn't need it to happen. Yeah. It came at the wrong time, but it would never have come at the right time. But I mean, like, you know, at the forum, now when this air is less than 30 days away. Yep. And I think folks, there's like 15 tickets left. So, you know, if you haven't got a ticket, probably a time to get a ticket.

But regardless, I'm sitting there. I got an email from the premier's office that I have. I just don't have the answer. I just can't find the energy. I just don't know how to explain that. I just can't find the energy. Yeah. I just don't care.

And in the back of my brain somewhere, someone's going, a moron, if you don't respond to this, the premier doesn't show up. What are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. And then you kind of get out of it. And so yesterday, I was sitting there. And I'm like, I got Jocko in my head going good. Yeah.

Ah, you got all these things going on today. Good. You know, you got all these problems, good. And I got the Bible sitting there going, don't worry about, you know, it's just like, it's all right here. Oh, yeah, fine, good. So a guy's got to sit down and stewing the toil of the day and get some things done. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the way to put it. Get some things done. You and I have work to do. And so does everybody else. We all have, Paul says, we all have works to do, according to the, plan of Jesus Christ. So let's go get doing them. It's exciting. You know, let's go honor and glorify the Lord, even though the task is difficult. And then, so you had your staff infection, as everyone who listens to the podcast knows. As everybody knows, yes. And it's like Paul, you know,

Paul had something like that for perpetually, right? He has a thorn in his flesh. And the scripture is very clear where Paul says, it's good that I have this. Even though I don't want it. It says good, because when I'm weak, then I'm strong. And so when I am in trial or tribulation, I can glory in those things because I'm now forced to rely on Jesus in a way that I wasn't, maybe before. You got a thorn in the flesh.

What do you mean? Thorne in the flesh. No one knows what Paul's thorn in the flesh really was. And that's deliberate, obviously, by the Holy Spirit, but something physically affected Paul. Something, it was bad eyes, something he had epilepsy. Whatever it was, there was something that hindered him,

physically and he talks about it in Galatians and he thanks them for their help in trying to treat or at least easing some of the discomfort of that particular, you know, thorn. Yeah, but it doesn't go away. So here you have Paul, who's like the most sanctified man, maybe to ever live, and he is given a thorn in the flesh. And he asks God, take it away, please, and God says, my power is made perfect in your weakness. So Paul goes, the thorn in the flesh really isn't so bad, because at least then I don't have the opportunity to say, I did this by myself. I'm forced to recognize that this is only possible through Almighty. I don't have the physical capability to do what I'm doing except by the power of Christ. So some of the most powerful Christians you see are those who can't walk or are those who

are bedridden or are those who have to stay inside. And they exercise a more influential authority over the world than the most powerful king who has ever lived exercises. That's a thought. That's a thought. That isn't that a thought? And again, right, that goes back to that Corinthians thing. That is completely contrary to what the world expects. You don't know.

The audience doesn't know what the heck out of it. But regardless, we're driving out here. Yeah. And I told you I'm on day three of the carnivore diet. Mm-hmm. And I'm coming off of, well, let's just call a spade of spade. Food, junk, sugar. All the crap folks, right?

I love candy, too. And I tell you what, I'm like, I'm like a bit, I'm ready to climb a wall. Oh, yeah. Oh, man, I'm like, this sucks. Yeah. But then you hear that and you're like, oh, that sure puts it in perspective. Yeah, it does. You're right.

You know, read Timothy, it puts it in perspective too. Paul's like, I'm freezing. Timothy in 2nd Corinthians 11. Paul says, we have nothing. He's like, I'm cold, we're poor, hungry, thirsty. worn out. Even though this is God's apostle, I mean, all, you know, all the apostles are God's apostle, but Paul is, he's the apostle. And it just seems so strange that he would be, from our perspective, from a human perspective, from a wisdom perspective, it would seem so strange that

God's man is persecuted and is, you know, tried like this. Wouldn't you want, you know, your children to not have to suffer anything, but Paul says, no, actually, it's the inverse. It's okay to suffer. And Christians ought to expect it in this world, according to Paul. And it's good because it forces you just to stop relying on this and instead forces you to begin relying on Jesus. Much, it's far superior. What did I, what did I send you yesterday? Yeah, Romans 5. It's a good one. Suffering. Produces perseverance. Perseverance, character. And character hope. Character hope. So you have Romans 5. The two that speak to this are Romans 5 and verse Corinthians 6. So after admonishing the Corinthians for their division and after showing them why they're divided,

they're divided for three reasons. They are wise in their own eyes. They are tolerant, believe it or not, the church is tolerant, and that's awful, says Paul. And they're not, they're under. Tolerant meaning they're letting things go? There is a man. There is a man in the Corinthian church. who is sleeping with his stepmother. And Paul says, that's bad. He goes, but everyone knows that's bad. This is in 1 Corinthians 5. He says, even the pagans who like engage in grotesque activities know that this is bad.

So he goes, I'm not going to spend any time talking about this. I don't need to. I know it's bad and you know it's bad. But here you are Corinthian Church, still tolerating this man in your church. You are letting him continue to worship with you. At your detriment. and at the detriment of the gospel because all of these other individuals in Corinth

are looking at you and they're saying, well, they're associating with this guy who is in just this grotesque, immoral sin. And so I guess it's all right and I guess the church really isn't that different. I guess the school of Christ is the same as all the other ones when it comes down to it. And Paul says, how could you?

How dare you? And he says, the church is a temple and it's holy. So what has possessed you to defile it in such a grotesque manner. So that's the second reason that they're split. And the third reason is they're acting temporally and they're not acting with eternity in mind. So they are in Corinth.

When you had a spat with your neighbor over money, you'd take into court. But the court wasn't like what it was today. It was public. You went to a public square. And you probably hired orators on your behalf to battle it out using rhetoric and flare and stuff. And it was entertainment for the rest of the city.

You know, if I wanted to take page on a date, I'd say, let's go watch these two battle it out today in the legal arena. And we'd go watch this discussion happen as these two orators would go back and forth and all of that jazz. In the church, the Corinthians were doing the same thing. If you and I were in the same church and I thought you owed me 20 bucks and you didn't want to pay it, I would say, I'm taking you to the public court. And you'd say, all right, and we'd both hire our orators.

And people would watch as we battled it out in that public square. And Paul says, this is ridiculous. this. He says, you Christians are going to one day judge the world and judge angels, meaning you're going to help rule the world, and either judge those angels that are wicked and fallen or rule over angels or a bit of both. That part, there's room for interpretation. But either way, you're going to do these things, and you're stuck fighting over $20. Are you kidding me? And he admonishes them for that, too. So he says, if only you could understand everything in light of eternity, maybe you'd act differently and you should act differently. So he gets done all of that. Three reasons why they're

divided. And then he says in chapter six, he goes, I know what you're going to say though. I know how you're going to respond to me. Oh, is it five or six? Maybe it's still in five. Either way. No, it is probably still five. No, it's six. It's six. I'm sorry. It's six. At the end of six, he says, I know what you're going to respond. I know how you're going to say, what you're going to say to me. He says, you're going to say, well, Paul, all things are lawful for me. This is a Corinthian state. a Corinthian quote. I can do whatever I want. That was one of their sayings. And the second saying was foods for the stomach and stomach for the food and God's going to do away with the body in the end anyway. So who cares what we do with the body? Spirit and the body are different. So

we can believe in Jesus spiritually and let the body do what it wills. We will feed its appetite in my case and maybe yours for sugar and so on. Paul was using a bit harsher of an example. They were sleeping with prostitutes. But anyways, but but you know, I can feed it. do it with whatever I want. And he might have gone a little further than just prostitutes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. There's exactly right. But either way, same principle. And Paul says, I'll grant those two things. Well, the first. He says, I'll grant that all things are lawful for me. He says, fine. I'll say that that's true just for the minute. He goes, maybe, but not everything is profitable. So even if the Christian, because he's saved by grace, can do whatever he wishes and still be saved, that doesn't mean

he should do whatever he wants. That's a stupid argument, Paul says. No, not all things are profitable. And regarding the body, Paul says actually the body won't be done away with. That's Platoism. The idea that this physical material plane is bad and only the spiritual plane is desirable, he said, that's nonsense. One day we're going to be raised up physically, you know, like this, bang, bang, bang. So don't treat the body like you're treating it now, especially considering that it's the temple of the Holy Spirit.

And not just a temple, it's the Holy of Holies. So what I mean to say is in the Israelite, in the Israelite, You had one most holy place in the temple. Priest went there once a year. That was it. And if he was not pure, nothing was, if it wasn't proper,

he died because that's where God's Shikina glory, his presence rested. Paul says that has now been transferred to you and to me as believers. We are the new holy of holies. So don't defile the temple. It's an unthinkable thought. Don't do that. So in that case,

and when it comes to treating your body right, yeah, there is Christian, there is Christian teaching that says, yep, don't be stupid with it. Don't treat it like it's this disposable thing that's just going to vanish. It's not. It will be resurrected with perfect bodies.

But Christianity is not a religion where it's not a belief for a relationship that says, oh, it's just a spirit and no body, no physical. Nope, it's both. Christ came as a man. And then somehow that ties into Romans 5. What were we saying?

Perseverance produces... No, suffering. Suffering. Suffering. Sufferings. And then character. Perseverance, character, and character hope. But wait, wait, wait, wait, before you hopped it out.

You're rattling off way too much right now. Trying to keep up here, folks. Even, let's go, okay, so at the end, let's say he resurrects everything. Yeah. It's like, even if you could defile the body. Yeah. It's like, so you want to be fat. And let's say you can eat, you can eat whatever you want.

You don't get fat. Okay, but then you think of all the aches and pains of your joints. Yeah. You, you know, like, I got nothing to, you know, like, Folks, I drank with the best of them. Yeah. But now that I don't drink, I'm like, I don't have those mornings anymore. Yeah.

And you go, oh. Yeah. Like, there's just no bad mornings because of that. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't other things. No. Certainly, I'm throwing my back out and then I've had a staff infection. Literally, you know, but like, I'm like, so, you know, sit here and I go, even if that was true. Yeah.

It's like, yeah, but you could live just a smoother. Yeah. Smover. Yeah. And then not to mention, every time you, you, you, um, start to defile the body. Yeah. All the attacks that come because of that. Of course.

Right. It's like a homing beacon for like you, you want, you want to, you want to bring in the bad. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. So like, I mean, there's more to, well, not more to it. It's just like an add on to what you're saying. Yeah.

That's just a continuation of the logic. Yeah. That's really that that's always the logic. And when it comes to Paul talking about. you know, works in the body and so on is really just, why would you do, why would you do that? That's really what it is. You know, he gives out, and the ultimate reason is love. Like, he's like, you know, Christ loves you. So why would you act like he doesn't? Because you, no, because, well, I don't know about that right there.

But like instant gratification, pleasure of the body, all those things, pleasure of the mind. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, I get that. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. There's temptations. Why is cutting out sugar? Oh, yeah. You know, as we're sitting here talking about, I love candy. Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. Oh, you know, there's still temptation.

But like, I mean, if you were having, I don't know, I'm trying to think of like, Corinth, right? Yeah. Like, you're talking about prostitutes. Yeah, there's a thousand prostitutes at the temple. Yeah, like, I mean, think about that. Oh, no, you can't quite describe how perverse Corinth was. Right.

And perverse for some people would be a lot of pleasure. It would. And easily at hand. Easily attainable. And now you have to deny all that. At all. You know, you're right. You can imagine in the beginning it was a hard thing to do.

And eventually you're like, what the heck are those people doing? They look like a bunch of jackasses. Yeah, that's really the, that's the logic. But I sit here and I go a year, right? So I have, you know, you know, the start of this year. Has it been a year already? Well, it was all of, uh, so I, I let the cat out of the bag, so to speak on the year in review with Kenny.

Yeah. that through 20, 25, I drank probably four or five times only with Mel. Yeah. And that was my rule that I sat with her at the start of the year. But I didn't want to tell people because I didn't want her, them. I had this. I'm like, if I tell people, man, are they going to try and twist Mel into having a drink? So I'm like, I don't want any of that pressure.

Yeah. And it's funny enough. Mel drinks like once in a blue moon if she's lucky, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's been well over a year. It's funny when you get removed from it and then you, I don't know what the time frame was. I remember thinking, I watched a bunch of, like, celebrities, talk about the six-month mark and something changing. I don't know if that's true or not.

Yeah. Because I remember waiting for the six-month mark to come and go and then being like, I don't really feel anything. Yeah. But it is funny. Somewhere in there, I had to go to a couple different events. Like, one was a wedding. I can tell you, Tanner, in the last 20 years, maybe longer, I've never been to a wedding without drinks involved. Ever.

Yeah. It was a new experience. Yeah. I'm like, huh. So this is a wedding. I was like, yeah. All right.

And then there was a couple other ones. And I just kept reiterating to, well, like, nothing good happens after midnight anyway. Yes. And it's funny when you're not drinking, it hits like 11 o'clock and you're like, man.

I'm gassed. It's not anyway. It's just like people or, I get, oh, man. Oh, that, yeah, yeah. Oh, I know.

You were just walking around. And you're just like, this is funny. And like, and there's no, I'm trying not to judge anyone on it. I'm just like, I used to be this. So it's like, I can't really be upset or anything.

Not that that's the right word. It's just like I'm looking at it. I'm like, man, I'm just ready to go home. Yeah. You know, like there's trouble lurking around all corners when you get into those. And so you go back to Corinth and you go, there's a thousand prostitutes. Totally. And it's like totally normal.

Totally normal. To just walk. Oh, you want these two? Okay, yeah. It's just like not frowned upon. No. Now try, give that up for this guy named Christ. And, you know, and you're supposed to be better.

And everyone, oh, really? Yeah. I got to do that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, there's no whatever saying it's not difficult. There's, they're temptations. You know, what is? And it's not difficult.

Difficult would be one on your own self. Like, that's difficult. Yeah. And it'd be societal pressure. Yeah, of course. You're going to do what? Of course. Who is this strange guy?

Which is why the church needs to be so careful in the way that it treats itself and its members. Because when you allow that other stuff in there, sure, guys will fall. lots of people will fall as a consequence of that yeah the church is to be in the world but not of it well i've been telling kenny so uh i don't really go on i try not to you know like one of my achilles heels of the podcasting world is i probably should be on social media more yeah and trying to like push out what i do and that's hard but like i i've said this lots but like i talk to a lot of um my elders yeah and they talk about the stage of them at with my kids and they're just like you know you're going to blink and that's going to disappear.

So I'm like, okay, so I see it as a choice. I could put all this time and effort into social media for what? Yeah. Or I go hang out with my kids. Because, you know, there's only so many hours in the day and I'm pushing, yeah, as you know, and I was pushing a lot of them. A lot of different things. Yeah.

And social media, I was just on it, oh, man, like two days ago. And there's a new thing. And I don't even want to really talk about it that much because I find it really, man, it's almost like softcore porn. Yeah. on, like, and people laugh that and they'll be like, well, there's models everywhere. And I'm like, for sure. But if you don't click on it, it never pops up.

My stuff is like, I don't know, Denzel Washington quotes and things on Jesus and whatever. And in the middle of it now, there's these ads. Sure. And they're enticing. And I'm like, what did I click? What did I? I'm like, I don't think I've been saying it. I'm like, because I know all the tricks of the algorithm.

And I'm like, oh, this is weird. So then I, anyways, go off Instagram. Then I had to hop on Facebook for one thing. And everybody who follows me on Facebook knows I hardly comment on anything once a year. Yeah. The same ads are there. I'm like, oh, this is an interesting tactic. Yeah.

I don't like it. Yeah. I don't like what's going on. And I go like, you know, you go back to Corinth and you go like it's part of their culture. It's all these things. The church, yes, I get that. But like society, you think of, I don't know, everybody. You see the Olympics?

Yeah. They ran out of? You know, this is. 10,000 condoms? We have this romanticized idea about our culture and our postmodern society that we're not like the old ancients. You know, we're civilized. We're civilized. And this is where the wisdom of Ecclesiastes comes in.

Nothing's new under the sun. So we really think that we're superior to those who would Corinthianize at the temple with the prostitutes. The society isn't. Just sin still infects. And that's, there's Romans 5. So first, like, yeah, your wisdom, there is sharp, you know, it's run from it, says Paul, from temptation, run fast, run far, and run to Christ. Don't just run anywhere, run to Jesus. Then the second thing is with regards to sin and the nature of man.

So, Romans 5, the only way to understand Romans 5, which is a difficult chapter we were saying before, is to read the previous chapters of Romans. You know, what we sometimes fail to remember when it comes to reading biblical books is that, especially Paul's letters, is that their letters. And so, you know, you wouldn't just jump into a middle of a letter that someone wrote you. You'd read the start first. Unless you've highlighted the one part, then you're like, oh, man. Oh, man, that's fair. You can read it again. But then I did go and read the beginning of Romans today.

Totally. So, okay, so Romans 1, right, starts an introduction. Hi, I'm Paul. And he's writing to believers in Rome, composed of Jews and Gentiles. The Jews had just returned from their exile because the emperor said you can't stay here anymore. It's persecution. Went back.

And now the church is composed of both Jewish believers and Gentile believers. Paul says, Hi, how are you? And then he jumps into his systematic theology, it's called. He begins with a proof that all men are condemned. He starts in chapter one with pagans, those who are like Corinthians,

those very bad, bad, bad individuals. He said they're condemned. And the reason they're condemned is because even though they see that even the law of nature, that's present in nature, they reject it and they do what they want. And it manifests the consequences of that manifest in various ways. And he lists all of these heavy sins. Next, he says, there are some who are stoic, like Aurelius. Again, this is before Aurelius, but that idea.

And he goes, even those guys are condemned. Because, yeah, they have wisdom and they do know right from wrong, but they do those things that they know which are wrong. You know, they lay out a law, which might be correct, but then they find themselves engaging in those actions that they know to be wrong. You know, man says, don't lie. And we still lie.

Man says, don't cheat. We still cheat. Man says, don't commit adultery. Look at a woman or a man lustfully, you know, all of these issues. So Paul says they're condemned. And finally, in chapter two, in the end of chapter two, he says, oh, and also start of three,

he says the religious man and the Jewish individual who has the law, who has the written law, even those guys are condemned. The fact that they possessed the law doesn't make them righteous. Look, he says, I can prove that they're doing wrong. They're not doing the law. Watch, look, read it. So they're all condemned. Uh-oh.

What are we going to do? Well, says Paul, if every man breaks the law, then he can't be made righteous by the law. Obviously, he's broken it. You know, he can't be made perfect by the law. The law proves that he's not perfect. If you had a man who never sinned, who never broke the law, yeah, he'd be perfect. and he'd be righteous that way. But we know the famous verse.

Among you and I, there are none. All of us have broken the law. It's pretty clear. It's self-evident, Paul would say. So he goes, what are we going to do? How exactly are we going to be saved from this condemnation? Now he jumps into a passage on justification. And he says, we're going to be saved by faith.

We're going to be saved by grace through faith. It isn't by works that we're saved. It's by faith in Christ. And he goes, I bet you readers think I'm just pulling this out of my hat. He goes, but I'm not, and I'll show it to you. He goes into chapter four. He says, there are two major individuals in Old Testament. There are a lot, but I'm going to choose two big, big, big guns, Abraham and David. Everybody knows Abraham. Everybody knows David. When you read the Old Testament, says Paul, look, here are the scriptures, Genesis 15, 6, and so on. You see that

Abraham was justified by faith. Abraham believed the Lord it says, and it was counted to him as righteousness. by belief. David, same thing. He also was justified by faith, by belief, not by works. As great as those two men were, it wasn't as though they said, or God said, yeah, you've been made perfect in my sight because you have done good things. Uh-uh. It was your righteous by faith. So Paul says, there's actually precedent for this. It's always been like this. If a man wants to be justified before God, he has to be justified by grace through faith. So far, so good. In chapter 5, Romans 5, he says, now let's take a look at the consequences of that justification. So he goes, therefore, since we have been justified, right, by grace through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access into this faith, into this grace by faith in which we now stand.

And then he goes on this long message where he talks about, look at what comes as a consequence of this justice. justification, peace with God. Oh, and also suffering. Now there's meaning in suffering. Suffering produces perseverance. Uh, produces character. Character produces perseverance. Perseverance produces hope. No, no, perseverance. It's for suffering. Suffering produces perseverance. Yes. Perseverance, character, character, hope. Thank you. Glad you got the order right. I had it wrong. So I've read it enough. No, it's good. It's the one I get over Tanner. That's good. So you get, you get,

you get, um, I've been reading that scripture enough. I got it over. That's good. It produces, that's good. Anyway, so this is what the consequences of justification are. But notice how it's different than Aurelius, right? Even if Aurelius says the same thing. Suffering is good. It produces all of these things. It's different because Aurelius doesn't have Christ. So the main difference between Paul and Aurelius in this sense is Aurelius has no Jesus. And Paul does. And Paul says all of that meaning comes through Christ. And the ultimate teaching of that first pericapy is that we have hope because of our justification. We have hope.

How fantastic. And then after that, Paul jumps into a discussion of why that hope can't be taken away. Why we have it. Paul goes, we have that hope now, but you might be wondering, well, what if that changes tomorrow? Maybe I'll lose it. Paul says, no, you won't. And here's why. and he argues from the greater to the lesser why we won't lose it.

Great chapter. Yeah, it gives you a piece the human mind cannot understand. Yeah, that is it. That's right. That's something I got. That's right. Obviously, I believe it's from the Bible as well. But it's something I watched Charlie Kirk say.

And I'm like, man, that is, I've been trying to figure out how to explain this. I'm like, it escapes the human mind. I'm like, or human understanding. I'm like, perfect. That actually makes complete sense to me. I'm like, I've tried to explain this and I'm like, there's no way to explain it. No, that's right. So when you talk about hope, it's like, yeah, no, that makes complete sense.

Especially when you got things going on, like, okay, we've talked about the Bible. Let me pull in a couple world events for Tanner to chuckle about or to be like, oh, man, you got, okay, you got what's going on in Mexico. Yeah. Well, I mean, since the start of the year, you got Maduro. Yeah. Gone. Yeah. Right?

Then you got Mexico and like, you know, one of the kids on my team, his dad's trapped there. Yeah. That was an interesting conversation. Yeah. Right. Okay. Then you got what's going on in Iran. Iran.

You got the Epstein list files, millions of documents come out and like the, man, you got to have a thick skin to go into those. Oh, yeah. Because there is a lot of dark stuff. A lot of dark stuff. and then I mean let's just bring it closer to home and obviously those are some like hefty things but then you got a conservative party

with Daniel Smith with the home and our budget goes up again when you're scratching your head going like I don't know does anybody it sounds stupid to say it this way because I mean obviously the referendum or the petition is being signed

and I already know the answer to like a little bit of the question it's like anybody want to straighten this thing out do we actually want to get that going back the right direction? or we just, we're just going to keep steering it into the twolies and see what happens. Yeah, yeah, we know it'll happen. You know, Christianity gives that peace that transcends understanding.

So Paul is beaten mercilessly for his proclamation, and he is very regularly abused by government officials and so on, but never once does he mount a charge to overthrow the government. and he doesn't tell his audience to, you know, enter into positions of power. I'm not saying that Christians shouldn't. What I'm saying is that Paul, because he was a Christian and understood the grace and the love of Christ, transcended the government experience. He got to a place where it didn't matter whether the emperor was Nero or whether the king was Kearney.

The point was because Paul had Christ, it was good. Had a peace about it. not saying you don't fight for what's right or that we do nothing. No, we're supposed to do good words. Yeah, but Paul didn't do nothing. No, he didn't. You're right. Like, the thing about it is is like you go, well, well, Paul should have went in, I don't know, Paul should have went into government.

It's like, I think that's what God was telling him. Devin, when I read the story, that's not. Totally. You're right. He was listening what God was tell. You're right. And so he went into places where you're like, man, I don't know about that. What are you doing here?

Yeah, of course. But at the same token, if you're following his lead, which it looks like Paul certainly did. Yeah. You go, well, that's why he's there. Yep. That's why he's not in government. Yep. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't go into government?

I mean, no. The same token, I don't know. It's a very, it's a very interesting, because, you know, like, I see tons of Christians do one of two things. Yep. And I'm sure there's somewhere in the middle, too, that I can't think of. One is, God has told me to do this. Yeah. And you're like, what?

Has he? Has he? Has he? Yeah, that sounds the best, but it's true, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. because I don't know, that's not, and then the other one is,

God will take care of it. And not that they're saying I don't have to do anything. No. But it's kind of like, there's one of the two things. And I'm like, I don't know. That's right.

I actually am more of the camp of like, I pray about it every day. And some days I find myself in very precarious situations. Or I shouldn't say precarious because it implies danger. More, I don't know why I'm sitting here doing what I'm doing other than I'm trying to follow along with where he's leading. And if I thought, I don't know if this makes sense,

but I don't feel like God's going, oh, you just got to climb way over there. That's where it's going to go. I'm like, I don't know if he's giving me an inch in front of me right now. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, just move right there. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden I look back and over the course of, you know, obviously three, four years, you're like, how the heck did I get over? Yeah. What a path, eh? I still don't know what the heck I'm doing. Yeah. and I guess when I see other people talk about it they're like oh god has this high calling or we don't need to do much because God's got it all in hand yeah I'm probably oversimplifying

and I hate that I notice folks that I keep saying that a lot lately nobody's told me that I keep saying but I'm like but that's what it feels like yeah well the high calling is following christ so in that sense every Christian has a high calling and um that's the high calling to believe As for the, we do nothing, that is just completely contrary to the theology of Paul. I mentioned at the start of the podcast about the rewards and the works and all of those things. Those are real. And Paul is so clear that, and so are the other authors for that sense. But, you know, we're talking about Paul today.

Paul is so clear that you and I have an obligation to go and do good works because Jesus for us did the ultimate work on the cross. You know, it's like you love your spouse and she loves you. can you imagine doing nothing? Because I know she's going to stay married to me, but I'll just do nothing therefore. That logic is perverse. No, actually under that logic,

that's where her marriage goes to die. Yeah, you're right. Because by doing nothing, you are actually saying I'm complacent. Yeah. And by putting in zero work, eventually that causes friction, a lot of it,

and eventually it leads to dark places. Right. Now, maybe it never leads to divorce, but it certainly leads to dark places. Yes. And one of them is divorce. So by doing nothing, you're actually, you're doing something.

Yeah, you are doing something. That's right. And so, like, you can't lose, I'm convinced you can't lose your salvation. The Corinthians, I believe, prove that. If anyone deserved to lose their salvation for being bad and doing nothing, it's the Corinthians. They were just evil, that church. But Paul still calls them saints.

But you're exactly right. And this is the wisdom of James, that when you are complacent like that, that is where your faith goes to, as James says, die. It's useless. You can't, you can't engage in dangerous activity. And then when you get hurt, go, oh, I believe in doctors and expect your body to be healed. That doesn't work like that. The same way, you can't engage in sin for all this time like the Corinthians were doing.

And then go, well, I believe in Jesus to escape the consequences here and now of that sin. Doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. You sure? Well, let me put it. Isn't the thief on the cross, case and point, that it can work like that? Meaning what? You can live a life of...

Oh, yes. I'm talking about after. What I mean to say... So the thief on the cross is saved by grace like everyone else, totally. And the Corinthians, same thing. And Galatians also. They are living very poorly. But because they believe, they're saved.

Absolutely. But just because you're saved eternally, that doesn't mean you're going to escape the physical consequences right here and right now of engaging in depravity and sin. That's what I mean. And that's what James means. So James goes, look,

if all you guys do is say, I believe in Jesus, and then go on living like you don't, he's like, don't be surprised when the consequences of that sin come home to roost, and they will. Like,

you'll physically die, you know? What's the best example? Like, just as a metaphor. I guess you could say someone who's addicted to hard drugs or something. Well,

I go back to, to Jesus talking about, you know, how, how little you believe? How does he say it to the disciples? Yeah, shocked. Yeah. Where he, you know, like, the thing is, is if, one of the things that I found strange, like I couldn't have told myself it and then realize, you know, like, it's kind of like one of those things you only have to experience.

Yeah. Or it can experience. He's in the beginning, you go, okay, I believe. All right. Yeah. And then, you know, I don't know, I don't know how everybody else, but I felt. the presence of God of my holy doodle this is something and then you start reading the Bible okay then you start actually reading the Bible and you're like oh crap now I got to wrestle with a whole

bunch of things lots of things and if you actually believe in Jesus then you actually got to go through some of the stuff and you're like uh but if I believe this that means I got to oh man okay and if I were to take the other train of thought I believe in Jesus boom open closed shut That's it. Yeah. I feel like he'd walk up to my door one day, knock on it. I don't know. Three sheets to the wind or take whatever other problem you got.

Yeah. And he'd be like, who are you? Who are you? Yeah, that's right. I thought you believed in me. Yeah. Oh, I do. Yeah.

Wait a second. Go on. Get back in here. I do believe it. No, no, no. Like all these things. Yeah. Oh.

And once you start believing it and you start reading it, like, oh, Maconah. Yeah. This is like the thief The thief on the cross might have got it easy Right? Not. No, I was you just saying. Like I mean, that sounds terrible.

But like, you know, everyone goes, oh, yeah, I can believe right at the end. Yeah, that doesn't, that's a risky proposition. It is. It doesn't work like that, you're right. But the sooner you believe You're saved for eternity, but then the work actually begins. That's right. I don't know if I, I don't know if I'm putting this out there the right way.

Those deathbed conversions are exceedingly rare. Very rarely happens. It's not a thing to stake And God doesn't mocked Did you see Who's Dilbert? Oh, Scott Adams Scott Adams

Did you see his post on? Not the end, no, no What did he say at the end? He said that basically Christians had convinced him Yeah And that He was going

To convert to Christianity I hope I'm not butchering this convert to Christianity because to him it seemed like, well, all the upsides there. If Jesus is real, I'll go to heaven. And if he's not, then the same thing plays out. Yeah, that's Pascal's wager. You've heard of it? Same idea.

His Pascal's wager was, you believe in Christ and you're right, you go to heaven. Great. If you believe in Christ and you're wrong, nothing happens. If you don't believe in Christ and you're right, Nothing happens. If you don't believe in Christ and you're wrong, you go to hell. So therefore, says Pascal, you should believe in Christ. Believe in Christ.

But that's never a logic. That's never the logic that scripture teaches. You want to be saved from sin here and now, right? I mean, I want eternal salvation too. And I understand the wager, but it's, it's, to me, to me, where I come from. Yeah. Like how I got to where I got. Yeah.

Had nothing to do about the end. Yeah, sure. Had to do with here and now. That's very... And the things that were interacting in my life and I couldn't take it anymore. That's very proverbs of you. I'm like either going insane.

Yeah. Or this is real. Yeah, very proverbs of you. This is real. Okay, fair enough. How do I get through this? Yeah. Very proverbs of you.

Boom. Don. What are we talking about the end? I'm a hearing now. Yeah. And stuff is going wacky tobacco. I need out of this. Yeah.

I'm dead sober and the world no longer makes sense. Yeah. I'm being attacked by things I cannot see that do not make sense. And you're telling me, I believe in you, and boom, it's all said and done and all this stuff goes away. As you're telling me? Okay. Let's try this out. You real?

Yeah, I'm real. Boom. I believe in you. I will do what you say. Boom. It all goes away. It's making my hair stand up. Oh, yeah.

Because that's how easy it was for me, but I had to get to a place where things are falling apart. And I'm like, what is going on? None of this makes sense. I don't like it. I don't like being here. What I used to do was pick up a bottle or pick up whatever and go down that path because it numbed it so I didn't feel it. I didn't see it anymore. And then all of a sudden you're like, this isn't working.

And actually it's destroying more than it's helping. Yeah. So now I can't do that anymore. Okay. I'm not going to do that anymore. But it's still happening. And it's happening on a more frequent basis. I'm not sitting here.

I don't mean to sell this like so weird thing, folks. But I'm not saying it was happening. every day it wasn't but if if the the the pace was once or twice a year something strange would occur yeah after the convoy i'm telling you it was once a month or once every two weeks and it started to pick up a feverish pace in my world where i'm like what is going on yeah what's happening and i'm not in the bottle and i'm not doing things to help numb this what is going on yeah and i yeah like i want to so we worry about eternal yeah yeah Life.

Just fair. Fair. Yeah. Okay. I want protection here and now. The world right now is gone insane. It's nuts. Oh, you're going to do that?

I like it. That has to do. And then he walks in, boom, says who he is, does what he says. All right. Yeah. You got me. And you should clarify that, you know, John and the apostles and the Bible never says that you have to have the right intentions when believing in Christ to be saved. You just have to believe.

Put your trust in him. All that jazz. Great. But what are the right intentions? Yeah, that's the kicker. Well, you know, I'd say I want one, because it's true. This is where apologetics comes into play because it's true. Christianity is true.

Christ is true. He's God. There's an obvious headship there. I want to be saved from the here and now and also in eternity. All of those things are true. It's truth. You know, why do you follow truth? Because it works.

You know, there are so many different, that's like, what is that? That's Aristot. Yeah, but I'm like, I hear you, but I'm more of like a seeing is believing kind of guy. All right. okay okay so like you can say all the things are true yeah but it all starts with one for me so just give me give me like a little dose like a little centimeter if that's true then maybe I can handle a bit more and then maybe I can handle a bit more I don't go if this is true everything's true sure so to me it was more of like a bite size holy crap I can't believe that actually just

happened sure this is that book orthodoxy I talked about pretty often Chesterton's argument is the same which is we can argue for Christianity you using a lot of different strategies and tactics. He says, I'm going to argue for it on the grounds that if you don't have it, the world goes mad. It goes insane. Nothing makes sense. That was his logic.

And he starts with a chapter. I guess it's chapter two, but he starts the chapter called the Madman. And he says, the reason I believe in Christianity is because it keeps me out of the nut house. I don't think he used the word nut house, but I think you used the madhouse, whoever it was.

And I think that's, for me, that's a pretty, that's a convincing argument. Chesterton or Lewis? Chesterton. Oh, man. Yeah, this is a... Now you've got another book that I got to go. Orthodoxy is a pretty good one. I like orthodoxy.

I don't... I think... Because you realize what you just said there from Chesterton is basically what I just put together. Once again, folks, I'm no Chesterton. But he just wrote a chapter that basically encompassed where I was at.

Just read that first chapter. I wouldn't recommend Chesterton as a theologian or as a historian. I think he's a pretty poor historian. Even he admitted that. But I think his book, orthodoxy is... compelling. And it's just, it's really just his biography, or his autobiography. He wouldn't say that,

but maybe he kind of jokes and says it is. It's just his journey on, on that Christian train. And the first one, the first chapter, it's just fascinating is without Christ, it just everything goes mad. And so you need it to make sense of the world. So it's, yeah, he has a very famous quote in there where he goes, uh, men have, Modern man's denied hell. Fair enough, he says, all right. I think it's wrong, but he says they denied it. But they haven't denied Hanwell, which was a lunatic asylum.

And he says, so let's start there at Hanwell. Let's start at the Nutt House. He says, if I can no longer argue for Christianity on the grounds that it saves man from hell, because men don't even believe in hell anymore, then I'll argue for Christianity on the grounds that it saves man from Hanwell, from the lunatic asylum. And he goes from there. Tough read.

but it's a thinker. I don't know. It sounds fascinating. It's a very fascinating book. Yeah. And it's, again, it's not the only proof of Christianity, you know,

but it's certainly, it's certainly one of them. I'm utterly convinced. It's the own, like even Aurelius, we go back to him. I know I'm really harping on the day, but I just,

as much as there's wisdom in his books, I think it's unfulfilling. It's incomplete. Well, it is incomplete. You know, just, you get there, but you don't get there. This is what Paul says.

You know, Socrates, brilliant. Plato, brilliant. Wow. Aristotle. And, you know, Aristotle's like, unbelievably brilliant. All this reason, they don't quite get there. I know this would be a poor example. Forgive me, folks. But like, coming off the convoy and everything I was going through, there's a lot of things that are real. Like, you can actually like, holy crap, this works. Yeah. All I got to do is go read the story of Moses.

Yeah. and realize the opposing side all the way up to Nats could match what God was doing. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. So you sit there and stew on that for a bit.

Yeah. Stew on that for a bit. So when I come back from Ottawa, I'm searching for answers. Sure. Lots of weird stuff went on. So I'm like, okay, did I just hallucinate this all?

Like, I have no idea. And probably the best way I can describe, describe Christianity because you're talking about Marcus real is. Yeah, yeah. And you're talking about all these different things. Yeah. Is you're playing a game of, um, a hole.

The card game, right? Everybody knows, you know, like you're going around and certain cards trump other cards. Yeah. Jesus trumps at all. Jesus trumps at all. And that isn't to say there isn't powerful cards on the table or in the game. There are. I've experienced, I, way too many of them.

Yeah. I'm like, this is strange. I don't like this. I didn't realize that was real. I didn't think that could happen, didn't know that. Boom. Ace goes on the table. In this case, you know, because I'm not going to call Jesus the Joker.

That's a little bit hard. But the Trump, yeah. says, Saul, what are you doing? Go clean up your things. Yeah, that's right. Believe. Yeah, that's right. And Paul does. And Paul does. And then he sees Jesus more than that, too, after. It's not the only time he sees Christ. He goes to heaven. He sees visions. Not visions. He doesn't know. He says, whether I was in the body out of it, I don't know. But I went up there and I saw things. So the kicker is, it's not even, you know, it's not Aralius's fault. He doesn't, in that sense. Like, what I mean is,

he can be as wise as as any man has ever been. But he doesn't have the spirit. and so it's not he can't he just doesn't have access to those revelations of wisdom and truth that Paul did so Paul says none of us apostles have any not saying I'm an apostle but like Paul and John and Peter he says none of us have any reason or right to boast we can't say we're wiser than the rest because we're not we were just by grace given access into this revelation by the spirit so that we can tell you that revelation one of I think one of my favorite if I not my favorite proof of Christianity. There's a lot of historical evidence and all of those things, and those are fantastic and necessary. One of my favorite proofs is that it's a story so profound,

no man could have written it, and it is wisdom in there that is so shocking that, you know, you read the words of Jesus, and it's like not to be, not, not to sound pejorative towards John or Matthew or any of the gospel authors, but it's like, we think that mere men, you know, wrote those words, really? You know, no, sorry. And you think even, you think even, like, it's just there's no comparison between like, you know, go back to Socrates because he's the famous philosopher. Do people memorize Socrates like they memorize scripture? And do they employ, you know, when men are in trouble, convoy, whatever it is, do you employ the words of Socrates to try and ward off that which is attacking you?

You don't, right? No one says in the name of Socrates be gone. no one says in the name of Socrates or in the name of Plato do this or that No it doesn't mean they weren't brilliant men They were brilliant men Brilliant men But men nonetheless

But men far more brilliant than I could ever hope to be But men nonetheless And Paul says that wisdom is not accessible by reason alone Before I let you out here Every time we talk I don't know This is a good one I'm having fun Well good They're all good

But this is I'm really having fun It doesn't have to end I just one of the things It's not to pull us back to like Things going on because this is obviously things going on. But one of the things I've been trying to inject in almost every conversation I have, because I'm like, I think it's important.

Yeah. It's Alberta petition or independent petition. Yeah. You're a guy that's, you know, I think right in the middle of it as much as any Albertan, maybe more than some, maybe less than others. Your thoughts on where we're sitting right now and, you know, like, Daniel Smith coming out with the nine referendum questions. Do you like that?

Are you against that? I'm curious because I've had both both ways of like it's good. It's bad. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Well, I think we're sitting right where the Lord wants us to sit. What a cop-out answer. That is a cop-old answer.

But a true answer, as for the referendum questions. my argument, my primary argument for the petition, for signing your name right now on the petition and voting yes in a referendum, for everybody is this. Dr. Modri's talked about it a lot, so as Mitch and all of the other guys too. Whether you want Alberta to be independent from Canada or not,

almost everybody agrees that Alberta's deal in Confederation is not ideal and it's not fair. And this is true right from the start of Confederation. You know, Ontario and Quebec had control over their minerals as provinces. When Alberta was formed in 1905, no control over our minerals, our resources. We had to fight for that really hard. And then that came in the 30s, but then, of course, you know, the national energy policy and all of the, like, you know, there's, yeah, there is a structural imbalance within Confederation, which I believe is abundantly obvious. and it's shocking when people don't recognize that,

in my opinion. So my argument then for signing the petition is whether you want independence or not, knowing that Alberta is getting not quite a fair deal, you have to recognize that the only way to hopefully get a better deal is to negotiate, is to try and exercise some leverage. We don't have any leverage right now. None, you know, what are we going to do?

Tell Ottawa what to do. You know, we're going to go vote. We're going to tell them. well, we'll vote for somebody else if you don't do what we say. No, that isn't going to work. We've tried all of this for years and years and years. So we need a tool, a piece of leverage that will enable us to better negotiate our fortunes than what we have right now.

And I'm convinced that that tool is a referendum, a successful referendum on independence. Even if you want to stay, we need that tool. Because we don't have it economically. Alberta does not have the economic leverage to negotiate a stronger position in Confederation because the economic aspects of trade, of interprovincial trade, of treaties with other countries around the world, all of that is governed by Ottawa. We don't have it constitutionally.

We have no leverage there, right? There are actually five different formulas, I think, to amend the Constitution based on what it affects. But the general amending formula is, right, 710 provinces, 50% population, Senate, House of Commons, got to get past Quebec or Ontario, because they both have the big population numbers. all of those things.

We just have no ability to change our prospects as it stands right now. So we should vote for independence in a referendum on the grounds that it gives us leverage. So then with the premier's referendums, be curious to see where the province stands on those things. But when it comes to exercising effective change after those votes, it'll be inert. Alberta just doesn't have the present power to change those things. We had a referendum on equalization.

Referendum on this, that, or the other thing, we've made our concerns known, and we're still locked into the deal that we are. So something has to give. You've been paying attention to Quebec? Little bits here and there. What's exciting that's happening over there? Um, the separatist party just won their fourth. That I did see.

Yeah, that I did see. To me? Yeah, that I did see. And by double the vote of the next party, right? Yeah, that I did see. So you go, huh. Now, that doesn't spell that they're having a referendum and, you know, but there's a provincial election coming up this year in Quebec. By all accounts, it looks like the separatist party is going to be the party.

I mean, they're just, you know, if trends. show you anything four in a row. Yeah. You might argue, maybe those are ridings where it's susceptible, but four in a row and not close. Yeah. And then you start to look at it.

You know, and if I may, I go to what Yukon Strong told me about Yukon. One of the things that I like getting outside of Alberta and talking to different people. Yeah. Then you talk to Yukon. And he talks about their provincial election and what they did

and how it went from being a split between the liberal and the conservatives to forgive me. I want to say the UKONs. but something like that and them having majority, they're holding majority of the seats because of what they did to the conservatives did to the Yukon. And you go, oh, there's something changing here in Canada. Yeah. I think I've been studying equalization a lot lately. And what too many of us don't know is just how perilous is the wrong word. But how fragile. Canadian structure is right from its beginning. Four provinces in 1867, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and it's a New Brunswick or PEI? It's PEI. Anyways, four of those. Right from the start, John A. says, and his cabinet says, we have to ensure that the inherent regional inequality, which is present among the provinces, is not permitted to fester so that it might encourage the poorer

provinces to pursue secession with, say, America. There has been right from the start of Confederation, this balancing act between the federal government and the other provinces, so that the provinces are not encouraged to try and go at it a different way. The federal governments always had to work very hard at keeping all of the provinces in line so that they don't do something else on their own. And the way that McDonald and his capital, decided to exercise that control in 1867 was to say, we in Ottawa will collect excise and customs taxes, which are the two major taxes at the time. We will give all of the provinces authority to administer policing, administer schooling, administer, whatever, healthcare, all that

jazz. That all comes through the provinces. We, Ottawa, will have all the money. The provinces will have all of the work to do. The only way they'll be able to pay for all of that work is to come to us who have the money. So they created from the beginning a state of dependency that insured, at least as best as they knew how, the continued allegiance of the provinces to the federal government. But that deal has always been very fragile, as I mentioned. Quebec, with a Quebec especially. Quebec has always had that independent streak about them

and Alberta too but Quebec is older Quebec has a more sizable population Alberta is actually much younger than Quebec especially when you consider that our oil boom didn't come until the 60s right. Well Quebec was right at the start right at the start and they came from a different nation right at the start right you had the Brits and the French I mean I'm once again I hate to say it oversimplifying but I am yeah and you go like yeah there's there's a lot

of history there. Lots. So you notice... So you're sour as an Albertan right now. You're sour, right, you are. And you've got 100 years of history. Right. A little over. Yeah. Well, imagine you've got three, four hundred years of history. A lot more. And have been brutal, like, have been screwed over time and time again. You know, I just, you look at it and you, you know, hmm, that's, it's interesting. You know, I, I'm, I'm searching for somebody in Quebec. Yeah. To walk me through what's happening. Would love to listen to them. Because I would love to hear it. So would I. Now, well, Obviously, there's a language barrier. Yeah.

Which sucks. Bonjour. I know one. I know that word. But it would be interesting to hear somebody, you know. It would be fascinating. You know, because, again, you look at, a look at Canadian history.

There are a lot of concessions that are given by the federal government to try and keep that confederation together. Equalization is a big concession. A lot of constitutional insertions are concessions. Quebec was the first to start. to implement a personal income tax because they didn't like how much power the federal government had. So the federal government had to. Quebec said, we're going to charge a 10% personal income tax on our citizens.

Ottawa said, all right, then we will reduce our personal income taxes for you by 10%. Taxes stay level. So all of those concessions are in history. And Ottawa has just continually tried to play this balancing act, but it's becoming exceedingly treacherous. And people are tired. Yeah, people are tired. It's one of the things about Canada.

It's a huge, geographically, it's massive. And culturally, it's diverse. And we've talked about this before. When you have diversity that is so sharp as you do in Canada, it is unthinkable to expect that nation to maintain a unified, cohesive community. It just can't. And that isn't to say anything morally about it.

whether it's right or wrong, it's just an indicative. That's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's indicative. It's, it just means, it just means this is the way it is, you know, not one more, but it's funny because we're recording this on a Friday, folks. I should never, I don't know, I don't know if it matters to let that out of the bag, but whatever, just comes off the mashup, the heels of the mashup, right? And one of the things, you know, that came out this week was, we're getting, I think it's F-35, from the states and we're going to put foreigner, well, the possibility of foreigners flying

that too is like, what could go wrong? I'm like, and what could go wrong? Lots could go wrong. Yeah, lots could go wrong. It's just, you know, and, and, um, those in government know what they're doing in some respect, obviously. This isn't surprising to them. Did you go back to Christianity? And Paul, even in spite of all of this madness says, when I'm weak I'm strong and even though he's going to go to Rome to get his head chopped off, still yet he recognizes that perfect peace which transcends understanding. I have heard far too many times Christians and even non-Christians or unbelievers say that, well, if we don't get the government that we need in power this time, we're done. That's the end of it. And they have concentrated all their hope

in government and it just isn't the gospel. Don't do that. Don't do that. You'll be so disappointed. Well, actually, even in the independence petition and all that, yeah. Don't put all your hope. Don't. I mean, don't. It's not like, don't work at it. No, don't go to.

Obviously. Totally. But this, it is not the gospel. It's critical. It's important. I'm not saying that. Absolutely. But it isn't, it's not going to save you.

It won't save your, won't save you from, I won't save your eternity. And it won't save you from, like we talked about, the sins here and now. You know, with an independence, with a successful referendum on independence. as important as it is, give you the answers to all of those all of those occurrences that you experienced

in Ottawa. Well, the answer is no. Right, the answer is no. And that's true for everything. Will it save your marriage? In my moment of trouble, I didn't go, Albert Independence,

that's right. Are you real? And nobody else does either. That's right. Nope, I went, if you're real, God, now's the time. Yeah, that's right.

Because if you're not, I guess I'm going where that is because that is definitely real because I'm like, what the heck is that? And no, and everyone else is the same. You know, does anyone when their marriage is failing, say, if only we had Alberta independence, nobody. Right?

It just, even that speaks for itself. So as important as all of this is, Paul would be the, you know, Paul would say follow Christ, but it's, it's, Christ comes first. And that piece of knowing that no matter what happens, we're saved, allows us to act in a way that is. I had a really, this is probably not too much personal information because I'm like, obviously it's a, people have been along for the ride. But my wife and I play this, I brought it for our,

when was this, three, four years ago? Anyways, it's just a card game. Yeah. It's called The And I think. Okay. And I like it because it just spurs on conversation, but it's just card game and they just have questions on the inside. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you can probably buy really questionable. Sure, cards. Cards. Yeah. But you can also buy ones for couples and then one for, I think, the latest version we have is, like, married couples or couples have been together for a while. Sure. And obviously, there's some cards in there that I'm like, this is a dumb question.

Or, like, who? Anyways. One of them was, I forget how the question was. But, like, what do you put as the most important thing now? Or something? I'm sitting there and I end up driving. You can imagine everybody, probably imagine. I'm like, am I really about to say what I'm about to say to my wife?

I think I'm about to say it. And I'm like, well, hon, I'd love to say your first. I'd be honest, or I'd be lying if I said that. Number one is God. And you're following closely right behind it. And I'm like, I can't believe I just said that out loud. I'm like, what is, what is, 20, 26, the year, what a year? What a year.

But if you think about it, the reason I say it to is because, you know, go back three years. Yeah. That would not have been my answer. Yeah, sure. it's and you know the paradox is by doing that you're able to love your wife better than you ever been able to love her before paul talks about that too boy isn't paul something paul is something paul is something yeah he talks about marriage a lot right because um that marriage is a picture of christ in the church the church is his bride and christ is preparing to in jewish

culture when Paul is writing and when the Gospels are being written. And I'm probably going to, I'm probably going to mistake an order here, but it's a general principle I think of it right. So you're meet a woman, very pretty. Maybe it's probably arranged kind of thing. And you become betrothed, right? You basically married, practically are married. Once it happens, you go back to your father's house and you build a room, an adjacent room on his house for you and your bride. And it isn't until the father checks out the room and goes, that's good, that'll work, that you can go back, fetch your bride and bring her home. Then you have a big celebration, huge celebration. So too with Christ, right? Christ came. Church is the bride. He has returned to heaven to prepare a place for you

to get the rooms ready. He will then come and fetch the church when the father says, thumbs up. Yes, that's good to go. And then we will enjoy what's called the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, which is this big feast celebrating the... I don't mean it like inappropriately, but it's the consummation of this marriage. So that picture, right all the way back from Eden, is to testify about a believer's, at least in part, is to testify about a believer's relationship with his or her spouse. So when you say Christ comes first, it sounds bad, but it does allow you to act in a way that you weren't able to before. And, you know, it's unfair to your spouse to be like,

in this sense, I put everything on you, right? If the spouse is like you, yeah, you're right. The wording is, it makes it sound like it's bad, oh, she's not, or he's not number one. But the idea is if you do that, then that individual is forced to bear your burdens and they can't, right? It's just not possible.

You have to be Christ. Only Christ can bear the burden. and then when he does so, you're able to love yourself better. What a teaching on marriage, hey, isn't Paul? And it's Jesus too, of course, but shocking. Yeah. Hard to wrap in the beginning. It is.

Yeah, it is. It is. But Paul's Ephesians too. Husbands love your wife as Christ loved the church. Same idea. And again, you have to remember the context that Paul is writing in, you know. It's the relationships between man and women. and look different than they do today. And it's just a different culture. But that principle still

applies, of course. Husbands are to love their wives as they love the church, right? Or as Christ loves the church. So you're selfless. Give up your life for her, meet her needs, supply, you know, all that jazz. Your life has been laid down for her. And then she does the same thing, vice versa. And then the consequences are magnificent. That's a testimony in an of itself. And Paul says it even testifies to the angels. They learned from that. Yeah, there's some shocking things on the angels in our relationship to how the headship is structured. Angels learn from, in this case, Christian married couples. We'll also, as Paul says, judge them, whether that means exercise some authority over them or judge those fallen angels or a bit of both, again, up to

interpretation? All of that. I know. And again, I sound arrogant, but it's just the truth. Where do you find these teachings in Aurelius or Aristotle or any of the wise modern men of the day? You know, Nietzsche, Soljanitzin, whatever it is, they're all, you know, the brilliant men, big thinkers. Soljonitsyn has stunning work, right, like, and brilliant historian and incredible author. but these truths are not discernible by men, not by the wisest men or man who's ever lived. All your reason, all your history, all your art, all of that will never come to these conclusions, ultimately the gospel. It's a heavenly truth.

Thanks for hopping on. Thanks for having me on. How much fun. This was fantastic. You say that every time. Yeah, but I mean it every time too. Every day I say, this is fun. I'm like, well, that's probably why we do what we do, right?

appreciate it, Tanner.