Shaun Newman Podcast - #1028 - Keith Wilson

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

Keith Wilson is an Alberta constitutional and property rights lawyer based in St. Albert, operating the Wilson Law Office. He has been practicing law for 31 years. He specializes in land, environmental, oil and gas, water, compensation, and constitutional matters, frequently appearing before courts, regulatory tribunals, and the media. A longtime advocate for landowner rights, he has represented farmers against resource development and served on the legal team for Freedom Convoy organizers in 2022 with the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms. Wilson has become a prominent voice for Alberta independence, producing content and interviews explaining the legal and constitutional pathways.Watch the Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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substack, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review. You know what, you enjoy the show, share it with a friend, all right? Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a constitutional and proper rights lawyer based here in Alberta for the past 30-plus years. I'm talking about Keith Wilson. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

Today I'm joined by Keith Wilson. Sir, thanks for hopping on. Well, thanks for having me. You know, like, I guess sitting here in Alberta, we both can agree. The probably most important topic or the hottest topic is Alberta. It was just announced a few days ago that the threshold is going to be met. Obviously, that's got to be probably by all elections, Alberta. It's got to actually go through all those steps.

And there's still time to grab signatures and everything else. Like the process doesn't stop. Your initial reactions to that, are you surprised was anything out of the ordinary there? Well, I mean, one of the things that's important to emphasize is that, you know, the campaign period to collect the signature started in early January. And look at the winter we've had, even in Calgary. They've had a brutal winter, just a brutal winter. And so, you know, canvassers have been on the side of the road and in parking lots, trying to collect signatures and people are driving by going, yeah, I don't know if I really want to get out and stand in the wind

and grab a pen and get my driver's license out and things. So it's, it's been a tough. environment, the weather's improving. I'm not surprised the threshold's been met. It's going to be really important that people continue to sign if they haven't and encourage those around them to sign. The more signatures we can get, even though we have hit the threshold, the better. The more leverage there'll be, the more credibility and legitimacy to the movement and independence. So not surprised, it's taken this long given, you know, and Mr. LeCasic, he had the advantage of having the summer and parking outside of Folk Fest and music festivals and other things where there's massive traffic. And they didn't have a requirement to ask anybody for identification.

We don't know how many times people signed it at different locations. So it's a very different rigorous process. The rules were changed for the independence referendum led by Mitch Sylvester and the Stay Free Alberta. there's a very rigorous verification process for every person who signs. So, you know, that's where we're at. Yeah, the one thing on the environment, it wouldn't be Elburton if it wasn't in the deep, dark winter when we're all signing this, would it? Well, you remember the truckers protest in Ottawa? Like, even the police were saying, did you guys really have to pick end of January for your protest?

Like, couldn't you come here in May or June? Yeah, it was brutal and cold and. damp, cold, minus 20, not including the wind chills. So yeah, we're a hearty bunch. You know, one thing I should mention, Sean, is an interesting phenomenon is occurring where with this cancel culture and so on that the left are so aggressive with, people are, some people are nervous to sign the petition because they're worried about some kind of retribution. And we're running into that quite a bit. And I want to assure them that, that first, there are tremendous layers of protection to protect the identity and ensure the confidentiality

and anonymity of anybody who signs the petition. There's no way of anybody finding out that I signed it. I have signed it. The canvassers all have to sign non-declosure agreements. Anybody the captains for the constituencies that supervise the canvassers for State Free Alberta, signed non-disclosure agreements. Everybody who touches one of those sheets signs a non-disclosure agreement. Then there's regulations and rules from Elections, Alberta, that protect the confidentiality. And then once Elections Alberta gets the sheets,

they're not allowed to disclose any names. So it's purely confidential. It's the same level of anonymity that you get when you go into a ballot box and decide whose name you're going to put the X beside. That's very important that people understand that they need not fear signing this. It's very important they exercise their democratic right to petition government. It's one of the oldest forms of democracy is for citizens to petition their leaders. So I encourage those who may be reluctant to sign to get out there and sign.

Yeah, I've ran into people who are reluctant to sign because of all the reasons you just stated of why they shouldn't be reluctant, but they're certainly reluctant to put their name to anything of retribution, which I shouldn't laugh at, but I just, you think, that's where we've gotten to in society, right? Where you're trying to. Society. That's what we've gotten to in Canada. In Canada. Yep.

And one of the things that people cite, something that's very intimate to me, is the freeings of bank accounts. And you know I was in the rooms when Tamara Leach and Tom Marazzo and Chris Barber and others got the phone calls, hey, you're. bank accounts frozen, right? Credit cards aren't working. So I understand that and I have launched lawsuits against the federal government for Chris and Tamara and others for that bank freezing. So I understand that concept very well. But speaking from that point of knowledge, this is different. But it also is a manifestation that we're living in this fear that something's gone terribly wrong in Canada.

Now, talking about the threshold, just for a second, because I want to make sure, that I don't get this wrong and that we don't say on here, oh, it's been met, there's nothing to worry about. One of the things with Lukasdix, wasn't there 50,000 signatures removed from his petition? Is there a possibility they go through the signatures and they say, oh, there's a whole bunch that don't align, don't work, et cetera? Yes. That's why we got to have a large buffer. Right. Now, it's less likely because this is a more rigorous process. The canvassers are all trained. a much more sophisticated process than LeCasik had, but that's a risk.

And the other problem we have is that Elections Alberta has not been conducting itself with neutrality. They've been doing lots of weird, inappropriate things demonstrating they have a significant bias. They hate anybody who supports independence or even supports, there's people who aren't decided on independence who want Albertans to have the right to decide. There's people who are against independents

who want to have the referendum to clear the air, right? So for Elections, Alberta, to be engaging in some of its unusual behavior is really surprising. When you say unusual behavior, is there something you can point us to? They're going after Alberta Prosperity Project,

because there's a billboard on the highway that was put up several months ago that's still there. And they brought a court application seeking a court order to compel Alberta Prosperity Project to register as a third party advertiser, which is not normally what you do. If somebody's supposed to be a third party advertiser and they're not, you fine them. You issue a fine against them. You don't seek a court order compelling. Be like someone, the R.C. MP going to get a court order to compel you to drive 110 kilometers when you're leaving Lloyd

Minster and heading west, right? No, they'll just pull you over if you speed. It's so weird. I've never seen it in 30 years of being a lawyer. And then the evidence that they have is so strange. And they're saying things in front of the judge that they think this is foreign interference, like with no evidence whatsoever. They just can't seem to get their head around. that this meant that a lot of Albertans support independence, think Canada is fundamentally broken, they think the Canada that they want to love no longer exists. And so they're treating many people from elections, Alberta are treating anybody

associated with independence as the enemy. And that's not their job. So it's very strange. And then even some of the positions they're taking on this injunction application by the First Nations. And with respect to all of this, the Alberta legislature is currently sitting. And the Alberta legislature has brought in Bill 23. And Bill 23 makes amendments to some of the rules around petitions.

And in particular, it creates a mechanism for anybody who has a petition, the petitioner. So in this case, Mitch Sylvester, Stay Free Alberta, as the independence petition. makes a provision for them to designate scrutineers to be in the room when elections Alberta goes to count the signatures. Until now, there wasn't that. So it allows the Minister of Justice to send in scrutiners to supervise elections, Alberta's counting. I mean, we do this with elections all the time, right? Provincial elections, municipal elections, you're allowed to have scrutiners to make sure the votes on us, the counts on us, rather. And so now they're creating they're creating a provision for Mitch Sylvester to designate scrutiners to go in and supervise

the vote count to make sure the disqualifications are proper when they're made. The other thing, there's some confusion about this. I've been getting emails and people were concerned. The government has witnessed, and you and I and your viewers will be aware of it, how like the unions tried to weaponize the recall provisions and tried to get all these conservative of MLAs out of office. So because this is being used more as a political tool in an organized fashion, the Smith government has brought in amendments that you cannot start a new petition, a new one, in the year leading up to a fixed election, and the year after.

So in other words, petitions are an advocacy tool of citizens in the middle of a mandate, not to be used for collateral political attacks around an election. Some people have read Bill 23 wrongly and think that it blocks the October 19th vote on Mitch Sylvester's question on independence. It does not. the transitional provisions are absolutely clear that this new one-year blackout period on either end of an election do not apply to any existing petition. So we're safe there. I'm glad people are paying attention.

I'm glad people are on the lookout for funny business. But in my view, as a lawyer who's reviewed this, there's no reason for concern. It makes sense to me what's happening. The nothing in Bill 23 that prevents or in any way hinders the October 19th vote that is going to occur through a province-wide referendum on Albert independence. Just circling back on scrutiners, I'd had Daniel Turp on, former MP MNA from Quebec, talking about their referendums, obviously back to 1980, 1995. And one of the suggestions he had for Albertans was having international scrutiners come in. What you just said is a different version of that, which is making sure there's no funny business when it comes to counting the vote, tallying the signatures, et cetera, making sure there's oversight on that so that no funny business can occur. I think, you know, if I'm hearing you correctly, that's what's going on with scrutiners, correct?

Yeah, and there wasn't a provision for it. And the Smith government obviously identified that as a gap and seems to be having some concerns about how elections Alberta may not be honoring its obligations to be neutral and unbiased. So they've fixed the problem by giving the right to anybody who initiates a petition, in this case, Mitch Sylvester and Stay Free Alberta, to have scrutiners in the room. Let's switch to First Nations. There's a whole bunch of things here. One is, well, let's start with the core challenge, right? Because that's coming up right away, that they're going to try and find a way to just stop the Sinus tracks.

This is not going to happen. What do you, I mean, you're paying attention to this issue as close as anyone. Is there any, I don't know, smoke where that is or a fire where that is, that they could actually get it stopped? Well, there shouldn't be. But there is. There shouldn't be because their claim, the claim from a few chiefs, that somehow the action of citizens petitioning government on an issue breaches treaty rights.

That's patent nonsense in fact and in law in first instance, right? And what do I mean by that is Jeff Rath, one of the council arguing the case for stay-free, Verta has pointed out, that telling citizens that they can't petition their government, one of the oldest forms of democracy, back to the Romans, you know, definitely Magna Carta, is akin to telling, seeking a court injunction, saying that voters can't send a letter to their MLA, right? Like, it's just ridiculous on its face. So, however, you know, we've seen, seen what's happened to our courts. And the, you know, the premiers come right out this past week with other premiers called for reforms as to how they're appointed to give the provinces more say

so that the appointments better reflect the values of the provinces. But the judge made, in this case on the preliminary hearings, made some comments suggesting she might be prejudging the matter, which is troubling. But for that, I would say there's nothing here. So it's, it remains to be seen what the judge is going to do. Now, but it's all nonsense, Sean. This whole concern from these chiefs is nonsense. It's all predicated. It's predicated on the idea that the independence movement, if it's successful, is going to force something on the First Nation. And that's simply not true. On the First Nations then, if there was a successful referendum, in your mind, does it just stay status quo?

Does it stay the same as it is? Once again, Keith, you're a man who's looked at all the different ways and, you know, in our chats, albeit briefly, I don't see you overlooking anything. And so you've probably dug into all these different ramifications of what it would mean if Alberta were to, in fact, vote yes and leaving Canada. On the First Nations front, what would you say to that audience? Well, let me break this down slowly, okay? Because it just stuns me and frustrates me, to be honest, the level of inaccurate information out there.

So, you know, these treaties go back a very long time. We know that treaty six, seven, and eight were entered into in the late 1800s. But prior to that, there was a treaty that was entered into between Canada, the United States, in the 1700s, way before anything was happening in Alberta. And the problem they had back then was that some of the First Nations actually moved north and south of the 49th parallel. So we had nation states creating over top of traditional territories of First Nations. Did you know right now, Sean, if you were a First Nations treaty card holder in Alberta and you go to the Montana border to cross in a car, you know you don't need a passport? All you need is your treaty card. Did you know that?

I didn't know that till a little while ago. I'd heard that in the middle of COVID, if I'm being truthful. Yeah. And if you go to the airport, you don't need to pass. passport, just need your treaty card. Well, why is that? It's because there's this treaty in 1700 that said, oh, we're laying a nation state boundary and another nation state boundary over top of your traditional boundary. So we're going to allow you to travel freely across this international boundary. Okay. Point number one, like let's put some data points up on the wall here. All right.

Well, then people will say, well, the treaties were entered into with the crown. So what's your point? Right? Yeah, big deal. What I realize they don't understand is there's a federal count and a provincial crown. So for example, when I sued the federal government for Tamara and Chris for freezing their bank accounts, I sued His Majesty, the king and the right of Canada. When I've had to sue the provincial government because they put in a irrigation canal and flooded out my canola farmer or something,

I would sue His Majesty, the King in the right of Alberta. So there's a federal count and a provincial crown. There's not one crown. And it's a symbolism legal thing, right? So the treaties were initially with the federal crown, treaty six, seven, and eight covering all of Alberta. So first of all, we're totally different than British Columbia. Absolute mess in British Columbia. And we can get it.

Yes, we can definitely get into that. Okay. So we're different. We don't have the problems of the Cowichin decision. and the other agreement, the name I keep forgetting, that just happened with Vancouver. So we're all covered by these treaties. The treaties say on the first page of them

that the First Nations are forever transferring, assigning, seating, giving up all of their right and interest in all of these lands to the crown, the federal crown. Well, in Alberta, when it was formed in 1905. And Saskatchewan, when it was formed in 1905, the federal government created the provinces, but they kept ownership,

the federal government did, the federal crown, of all unoccupied lands, all crown lands, and they kept control of the mines and minerals and the water. Okay? Well, that was in 1905. So you're a province, but the provincial government doesn't have any provincial land, right?

So what happened was an independence movement started. And it ultimately built enough steam that under Premier Brownlee, in 1930, the federal government entered into the 1930 Natural Resources Transfer Agreement. And they transferred ownership of all provincial unoccupied crown lands, all the mines and minerals, oil and gas, oil sands, and water. So the water in the streams, creeks, lakes, etc., even the groundwater is owned by the crown, from ownership of the federal government to the provincial crown, to the Alberta government, okay, in 1930. But wait a minute.

the First Nations entered into Treaty 6, 7, and 8 with the Federal Crown. And in those treaties, they got the rights to their little reserves. And just so you know, the reserve lands, there's 48 reserves in Alberta, comprising 1.3% of the land base, 1.3%. And the land within a reserve is owned by the federal government on behalf of the First Nation. Okay. So that's the case right now. After the 1930 natural resources transfer agreement, the reserves continued to be owned by the federal government, the little lands within the reserve. What changed was the ownership of all the

other lands around the reserve went to the provincial government. But wait a minute. The treaties not only gave rights on reserve and rights to education and agricultural implements and health care and a bunch of other things. First Nations also have traditional rights, traditional user rights, including hunting, fishing, trapping. And they have the right to travel around on unoccupied crown lands. I went hunting last fall. I'm a hunter. And I pulled tags for deer. none of us drew a moose, a friend of a family member, First Nations, treaty card, shot a cow moose, right? Totally legal because he's First Nations. The restrictions that are on the rest of us don't apply to First Nations because they have these traditional hunting, trapping rights that are

carried forward by the treaties. So back to 1930, the federal government, so wait a minute. it. We signed a treaty with the first three for the tree six, seven and eight, giving all these rights to the first nations, but we're transferring those lands where the traditional rights are used to the Alberta government. So guess what they put in the 1930 transfer agreement? They said there's a whole cause on Indians to use the language of the day. And they say you Alberta government, we entered into treaties with these first nations. We're giving you, you, the Alberta government the right to control all these lands and ownership in them, you are agreeing by signing this transfer agreement that you will honor the treaty rights and that you will let

the First Nations hunt, trap, fish, travel, build trapping cabins, all that on your provincial land. Okay? That's a condition of this deal. The Alberta government signed. Okay, no problem. So now we have examples from the 1700s where treaties can be honored across international boundaries. We have an example of how the ownership and control of the land around the First Nation can transfer from one level of government to another. And throughout it all, there was no change for the First Nations. All of their rights were respected. So with that long, slow explanation, here's the options for the First Nations. If the vote for independence is successful on October 19th, each individual First Nation, however they make decisions as a community, will have a decision to make.

They can say we don't want any change. We want our reserve land, that 1.3% of the land-based cumulative of all 48 reserves, to remain owned by the federal government in Ottawa. We want to remain under the Indian Act. We want the federal government to luck after our housing. Phenomenal job, like design awards. We want them to continue to supply us with that excellent boiled water. Sorry for my sarcasm.

I shouldn't do that. And we want the federal government to continue to administer our treaty rights, except for those that are already transferred to the Alberta government. That's their choice. They can say no change. And they'll be able to travel freely with their status card from the reserve through Alberta, into the United States, back onto the reserve, just like they can right now. You know, they don't need a passport like everybody else.

So it shows we can do this. So they can be absolutely no change. Another First Nations may say, you know what? Ottawa is really far away. They haven't done such a great job. We want Alberta, the new government of, of the new country of Alberta to step into the shoes of Ottawa and deliver the treaties and keep everything the same, but now we'll be dealing with Edmonton, not Ottawa. And the Alberta government and the First Nation and Ottawa can say, okay, we agree. People amend agreements all the time. You and I can have an agreement and then we decide you're providing

me a service, I'm providing you a service since things change and we say, hey, let's modify this agreement. As long as both parties agree, you can always amend agreements that happens every single day, It happens every hour of every day. Very common. So if the first nations themselves decide and only they can decide, you can't tell them what to do, I can't tell them what to do, and I don't want to, and I know you don't want to either. So if the first nations themselves decide that they want to change and have their treaty rights

administered by Edmonton instead of Ottawa, that's their option. Some first nations, and each individual first nation gets to decide, one first nation can't bind another. Some first nations and they say, you know what, no, no, no. This is all, this treaty was written in 1800. It's 2026. We'd actually like to negotiate a brand new arrangement with the new government in Edmonton. And that's their option as well, some modern arrangement. So have I described anything at all that in any way takes rights away from First Nations through independence? No. Right. So all of this rhetoric from a few chiefs that by

Holding a petition and getting Albertans to sign a petition, they're violating our treating rights is absolute patent nonsense. In fact, in one of the podcasts, I might even been with you or somebody, they have a clip to it in an affidavit from one of the chiefs. And it's talking about Mr. Wilson, Mr. Miss Lewis, Mr. Wilson. And they say, Mr. Wilson says that if the vote is successful or independence, the First Nations will have three choices. One is status quo with Canada.

The other is have the treaty recognized and honored by Alberta, the new government of Alberta, and the third is a new arrangement. And the guy goes on to say, what does that even mean? I'm like, you put that in an affidavit? Wow. So this is just so, it's such political nonsense. My only conclusion is that it's political favor seeking. And they're trying to, some of the chiefs think they'll get an advantage by pleasing their masters in Ottawa. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. Because there's nobody advocating of any credibility. There's some voices out there that say we should tear up the treaties. I believe Albertans believe that when you make an agreement, you honor it.

And an agreement was made with First Nations in the 1800s that they would surrender all of their rights in the lands and the minerals and the water in return for things. And we should honor that in return for things. education, agricultural implements, healthcare, you know, things like that. Well, the one that's brought up, I wouldn't say tearing up the agreements, just starting anew would have been Bruce Party. I think that's the most vocal critic of not having

two different forms of citizen, essentially. And I'd love to go there. And if we all showed up in the land at the same time, But I mean, you can, you can trace back like, how is it that you are able to say that you own the land where your house is in Lloydminster, right? And, you know, you say to me as a lawyer and a property rights guy and a historian of Western Canada, I can take you right back in 1670. I won't do it all. But in 1670, then King Charles, a different Charles of the one today, issued a royal charter to the Hudson's Bay Company. And it gave the rights to the Hudson's Bay Company to what was called Rupert's Land.

And that's all of where Alberta and B, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Northern Ontario, Northern Quebec, etc. All the land around Hudson's Bay went to Rupert was called Rupert's land. And it gave this charter, the Hudson's Bay Company had the right to develop. settlements had the right to trap hunt and fur, trap and do fur trapping and all that kind of stuff and the big fur trade. And then after that, the Dominion of Canada did the deed of surrender in 1879, or 1869, where the Hudson's Bay Company surrendered its charter to the Dominion of Canada in return for it was like 60 shillings of something of silver and as well as certain lands in the fertile belt sections 26 blah blah blah anyway I could walk you all the way

through and then it was in around that time that the treaties were entered into to have the first nations renounce their ownership in the land and any claim to title to the land and then that flowed through to the natural resource transfer agreement which lend to the Land Titles Act and the ability for you to purchase land and have a piece of paper that says it's Sean's and his wife's. Right. So I don't think we should go back and tear any of that stuff up. That's how we got here. And what I prefer that we were in a condition where everybody had the same amount of rights. Yeah. But there was a transaction and I think it should be honored. When you hear of possible, the possibility or the thought process of First Nations having a veto,

like 48 different reserves, 1.3% of the land. I don't know what that equates to in the population. You might have that off the top of your head too, Keith. But do you understand how the thought process of a veto comes about? Well, it's nonsense because, so a First Nations member, has the right to vote in, has the right to sign a petition if they want or don't want. They don't need their chief's consent. It's not a First Nation council decision, each individual. And the same way that they, when there's a municipal, provincial, or federal election, each individual First Nation has the same right as you and I to vote, one X in a ballot, right?

And they'll have one vote in the referendum. them. Then the question becomes, okay, First Nations, Alberta's becoming independent. We're going to become our own country. We've identified three options for you. You pick. Full status quo. Nothing changes. Number two, nothing changes. But Alberta steps in to administer the treaties and the relationship. Number three, let's negotiate a brand new deal. So we don't need their permission for anything because we're not changing anything. The only people would be changing anything is the First Nations themselves, right? They are the ones who decide if there's going to be a change. So there's nothing for them to veto. We don't need their permission. They get one vote just

like everybody else. You know, I've heard you talk lots about, well, different aspects, different attacks on Alberta independence, one being landlocked, which I think most of us, you know, after you get off past the first initial, I don't know, not shock, but that's the word that comes to mind of them saying that. You're like, well, we aren't landlocked. Like, I mean, we've got so many different things going on in our country right now that are that are trapping us right where we are. And then they go, well, this and then this. And you're like, have you taken a look at Canada right now? Like, are we saying it would be better or worse to go through these processes? When you look at all the different attacks and you go, here's a vision or a picture of what Alberta could be.

Where does your mind go? Well, can we first, can I just deal with that landlocked one? Sure. It just keeps coming up, coming up. And it will keep coming up. It's going to keep coming up to October 19th is we're landlocked by geography. But the consequential landmark that Alberta faces is a policy landmark. It's a policy decision by the by the Trudeau and now Carney Liberals to block our goods from leaving the province through Canada, right?

So we have the tanker ban on the West Coast that prevents our oil from leaving on the West Coast. But there's no tanker ban on the incoming Middle Eastern oil that comes into Eastern Canada and Quebec and so on. a completely hypocritical double standard designed clearly to constrain Alberta. On a side note, I hate to interrupt, but I'm like, right now there kind of is a tanker ban. It's in the straighter home moves and nothing's really moving. Right? Exactly. I mean, they're getting their own type of tanker ban put on the East Coast right now.

Yeah, it's just a little further away. Yeah. It's the 1,200 ships, 1,200 ships stuck in the straight at home views. So we're landlocked by policy. But our Constitution anticipated that. The Constitution of Canada anticipated a province trying to block another province from getting its good and engaging in intervincial trade and commerce. So the Constitution assigned exclusive authority to the federal government to approve

interventional pipelines, interventional highways, and rail lines. We could have never had the national. dream and built the railway across the country under Sir John A. McDonald, as we did, if we had the approach of the Carney liberals. What am I talking about? Well, the moment the MOU was signed for a pipeline with the Smith government in Carney, Carney also announced in the House of Commons and then at news conferences where he was reading from a teleprompter. At first, I thought, Did he just misspeak? But then, no, he's reading that he's giving the British Columbia government, Eby, a veto over whether or not there's going to be a pipeline to tidewater. And he's giving

First Nations a veto. And both Eby and the First Nations said, we're not going to agree to a pipeline. So that's why this MOU thing is just a total distraction in my view, unfortunately. I think it was well intended. Commend the Premier and her team for trying to move it forward. But what's the point? if the prime minister has clearly stated that these two entities are going to have a veto and they keep saying we're exercising it, right? Let's be honest with one another here. Let's have an ad halt discussion about what we're really facing. Well, the Constitution says only the federal government can make that decision. You cannot, it's called an improper subdelegation or fettering discretion and administrative law. You can't, as a decision-maker, empowered to make decision, give it to someone

else. The example I use, if you're the Minister of Transportation entitled to approve, you know, new aircraft for being safe, you can't say, you know what, I'm going to ask my wife, right? That's called an infettering discretion improper subject. What did Carney do? He's delegated decision-making. So the Constitution is designed so that these facts don't happen. But Carney's not following the Constitution. That's how broken Canada is. We have structural defects where central Canada decides who the governing party is and they get to impose their will on us.

We send all this money. We get taxation without representation. But to the extent there's things in the Constitution that are to benefit Alberta and make sure we treat it fairly and get our goods to market. market. Carney's not even following them. He's breaching them by giving creating an artificial barrier. So what can we do right now in within Canada to forcibly legally force our right to get a pipeline to tidewater? Short answer, nothing. Because we can't change the government with these wackos that we saw at the NDP convention. If you go back and look at the few times I did this analysis, the

few times the conservatives have been government. The naturally and governing party of Canada's liberals. That's just a statistical fact. I did a tweet on this last week. And when the conservatives have won, it's been because the NDP performed well and they split the vote on the left. The vote was split between the liberals and the NDP and the conservatives came up the flanked, right? If the NDP perform really badly, they don't. Don't split the vote. It's a plurality, right? Who gets the most votes?

So I think we're in tune for as long as the NDP continues to be as wacko as they've trending towards. People who would sometimes vote NDP are not going to vote for this stuff. They're going to vote liberal instead. They're definitely not voting conservative. So we're in per perpetual liberal governments. It's another reason why Alberta's got to go independent. But we've got no mechanism to compel BC to trade with us fairly. Now, let's do the scenario where we're independent.

British Columbia has $8 billion worth of goods that travel east through Alberta highways and rail lines. It's the only way to get them to their markets east of us. So 80% of all of the container traffic from Asia that goes to the port of Vancouver and Prout's Ripr, Prince Rupert, and ends up at a Canadian tire store or Walmart in Quebec or Ontario, comes through, Alberta. All of their wine and agriculture products, their fruits, pulp and paper timber, other mining products that have to go east to smelters to be refined or otherwise made into something more valuable, all come through Alberta. And then where does the lower mainland get its gasoline, jet fuel and bunker fuel? It gets it through the Trans Mountain Pipeline. The valve is

three kilometers from where I sit. There's two pipes. There's two valves. Okay. So if British Columbia and if you, it all goes to the Burnaby refinery and it's made into refined products and it goes into a pipeline to the Vancouver airport and so on, the estimates are five to 10 days. So if that, those two valves are closed in five to 10 days, the lower mainland runs out of fuel. Right. Now, I don't want that to happen. But if BC is going to say, we want you to keep supplying us with fuel. And we want you to allow $8 billion of our commerce to travel through your province, but no way, or your country, but no way new country of Alberta, you're not going to ship goods through our province to get to tidewater. We can say, look, we want to have a mature adult, reasonable discussion about this. And if you're not going to let us get our goods to market, we're going to have to do something about yours. Right. So right now, B.C. can live. in this fantasy land of no consequence. There's no adverse consequence. They get all the best of both worlds while restricting and holding our economy back. We would level that playing field. We'd let the

adults get into the room and say no. We're going to be fair to you guys. We're going to ensure there's proper environmental protections for the tankers. This is not the we have GPS satellite systems. They've now mapped all the waterways there. You know, we have, we have have spill response capabilities. We have double-hauled tankers. That's why there isn't oil spills anymore from tankers, right? This is not the era of Valdez spill. So it would allow us to have a leverage, to have a reasonable discussion, to have a fair reciprocal transport mechanism to get our goods to market. It solves a critical problem, which we cannot solve because today, because we'd have to out vote out the liberals. That's not going to happen.

It doesn't matter how much Albertans try. It's never happening. And if it does, it's just a temporary thing. And number two, the Carney liberals are so focused on keeping our oil and gas in the ground. Carney is still the carne of values, net zero madness, decarbonizing oil. All of this crazy ideologically extremist stuff. So, um, uh, the Alberta is landlocked today by geography. and policy, an independent Alberta allows us to have leverage to overcome both of those constraints,

and it's the only way to overcome them. Well, you reorganize the bargaining table. Big time. Like, what you're talking about was shutting down the oil. You know, does anybody want to do that? No, we don't want to do that. That's not. Of course not. That's it, but that would be, that would be unreasonable. Yes. The point is, you're being unreasonable, British Columbia by imposing this restriction on us. We want to be reasonable. We're behaving reasonably now and we want to continue, but you've got to start behaving reasonable. And there's going to be consequences if you don't.

Yes, you get to have that as an option on the table. That would be an extreme option, but at the same token, it would be an option. Huge leverage. Oh, my goodness. Like, and you could even phase it in if you had to. Let's start with the wine. Let's start with the fruit, you know, like border checkpoints. I would not want to do these things, but we're not the ones being unreasonable here.

Well, and when you go to the, it was a question I had for Danielle when I was talking to her, you know, with everything going on with Cowichent and everything now with the fee simple title and seeing the chaos that's causing in British Columbia specifically, obviously, you're like the uncertainty in that province right now, if you're an investor or you're just a simple person who wants to own a home, own a chunk of land, etc. It's only growing by the day the uncertainty and the, you know, people going like, what the heck is going on? You're trying to build a pipeline across there.

That's an added kink into this. When you're talking about all the history, Keith, of where we come and you go through Rupert's land and you come through all the things. And then you fast forward to 2026. It's like, oh, by the way, we're going to undo a whole bunch of that because of something from 180 years ago and we're going to take away a whole bunch. That's the uncertainty that has come from what they're doing in British Columbia, which makes any project going that way, even more, I don't know, like a long shot. Yes, but then it also, you know, one of the things,

this is going to seem like I'm going off topic, but it's taking the concept to a higher kind of 30,000 foot level. One of the epiphany, I've had recently is that, and I've got to come up with a better analogy, so I'll use my poor analogy. We've all met in our lives someone, maybe knew from high school and they drove a transam or some kind of car because dad gave it to them, brand new Corvette, you know, when they got their driver's license. I wish I had that, dad. Anyway. Yeah, yeah.

But then they got into their 20s and maybe in their 30s and they were living a reckless life and doing cocaine and all this kind of stuff. But they were never suffering the consequence of their recklessness because they had, you know, a billionaire daddy, right? That kind of thing. That's what Alberta's been to Canada. That's what Alberta's been to Ottawa. They can pursue net zero fantasies. They can pursue spending millions of dollars on LGBTQ sensitivity training for peasant rice farmers in Vietnam.

because we've been pushing, you know, $600 billion in equalization payments to Ottawa. We've been that bad that has facilitated the reckless behavior of his son because there's been no consequence, right? So am I making any sense? Do you see the point? Yes, you are. Yes. So there's a similar thing in British Columbia.

They're living this fantasy land. So when they brought in prior to COVID, or right at the start of COVID, if you go back and search my Twitter account, if somebody wants to fact check me on this, I was writing about predicting what is now happening in BC would happen. And it's not because I'm smart or divine wisdom. It was just obvious. What happened was we have UNDRIP. Undrip is the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. And the BC government decided they were going to incorporate undrip and make it law through DRIPA. And you hear about this now, right? DRIPA. We've got to repeal DRIPA. But what's undripp? Undripp is like, it's an aspirational document. It's not written in statutory language. It says things like, um, sunshine is good. Puppies are cute. Like it's all aspirational. Be nice to people. But there's section in. I think it's 3.2. It's around there. It might be 32. There's a three in it. And it says that no land use change or decision can be made affecting First Nations areas where Aboriginal title is asserted unless there is consensus and consent of all of the First Nations.

And I read that and I went, holy smokes. That literally, if they make that law, that means if there's a proposed forestry project, a proposed road, a proposed mine, a proposed pipeline, a proposed transmission line, a proposed wharf, whatever. All it takes is one First Nations person to say, no, no, I'm not consenting. And that's it, you're done. So what started happening this last year, they also amended right after that Section 8 of their Interpretation Act to ensure that every approval decision for every type of permit approval you can get in British Columbia is now subject to DRIPA, which meant you had to get the consent of every

first nation, which meant any first nation could say no. It gave them a veto. Some first nations had said no to some mines and forestry and other projects. The government approved them anyway. Court applications were brought, in the court said, here's the law, says we're DRIPA's bounding. Do you have consent? No, okay, tear up your permit, tear up your approval. So you can, can solve that problem by repealing drip it's nonsensical all you're doing is inviting extortion right uh in my view when you create a situation like that that's just so obvious uh so that's the situation in british columbia that one can be fixed they got a more fundamental problem because unlike alberta like alberta so the more i work on this the more issues arise i just go

wow like alberta has it's pardon my language shit together We have the issue settled with our First Nations. Every acre of Alberta is ceded land. The First Nations have transferred a sign forever, surrendered their right titling claim to the land, the mines and minerals, and the water to the government. It's a done deal.

Almost all of British Columbia, there are no treaties. There's the Douglas Treaty on Vancouver Island and Sanich Area. And there's a couple of little ones here and there and some new ones that have been signed. But 130% of British Columbia, 130% is subject to unresolved Aboriginal first title, title claims. How do you get 130%? Thank you. Because there's four and five competing claims to Vancouver. Like they're layered.

There's a website you can go to. It's the treaty commissioner website of BC. And there's an interactive map. And you can click on it and they're colored. and you'll see the colors start to layer. And that's what Cowichin was. It was a competition between two different First Nations, both claiming this portion of Richmond.

And the court had to decide which of them had a better right. And ultimately ruled it's a fascinating decision to read. It's troubling too. That the judge ruled in favor of Cowichin as opposed to the other one because the Cowichin tribe was more brutal. They exerted more dominance. They would kill the other tribe members and they would put their heads on pikes at the boundaries of their fishing village.

Like it's just like, so because they were more brutal, they got rewarded when given to title to billion dollars with the flood. I'm just like, this thing's all getting so madness. But at a practical level, what does it mean? The court ruled that Aboriginal title in Cowichin once is established. Trumps overrides that land title you have to your home issued under their land title act. invalidates that title and that the superior right to the land is the aboriginal title. So now you have the entirety of the province for all intents and purposes, subject to unresolved Aboriginal title claims without treaties, except for the few exceptions.

In many areas, multiple competing claims and a court ruling that once they established that they have Aboriginal title, your title to your home, poof. Your title to where your business is, poof. Your title is a municipality, all your municipal lands, poof, gone. Shockwaves, you know. And there's lawyers there that are getting frustrated because they're saying this is tectonic. And people aren't, they're just what I can't be, right? Well, it is.

It may not be fair or reasonable, but it's the law now. So one other place where there's unseeded territory, and I really like this one. I have to admit, I just really like this one. Because you and I were there at a very cold time. All of the Ottawa greater region, including the Parliament Block, Wellington Street, the Supreme Court of Canada, is all unseeded territory subject to an Aboriginal title claim by the Algonquin. And one of the interesting conundrums will be as to how when this case gets to the Supreme Court of Canada, can the Supreme Court of Canada judges hear it? Because they will have homes with titles within the area that they will be deciding on whether or not they still have title to their home.

You know what it reminds me of, Keith, is when I was watching the NDP, Adrian. and seeing the host of it try and jump through all the hurdles that they've got put in front of them. And it's so confusing. You can even tell for they, them or I forgive me on. Nobody cares. But you're like trying to jump through all the things. He said straight, the word straight and then. Yeah, a straight line and then, uh, uh, uh, uh, it was a comedy skit.

You're like, this is how crazy the world we've created has become. And when you're talking about all the titles, that is coming home to roost in other parts of Canada because of what's going on in BC. And you're like, oh, yeah, we didn't see that one coming. And this is the worst thing for reconciliation. There's people who had no strong view for or against First Nations that are livid. Because what's the culture of the lower mainland? I lived in Vancouver area for six years. Part of their culture in the lower mainland in particular is it's.

all about home ownership. That's your goal. You get married. You have kids and one of the spouse's income goes to the house. It's so expensive to live there, to have a home. But so they take incredible pride in their home ownership. It's such a part of their culture. And here it's being torn out from underneath them. So it's not good. And all of this needs a dose of reality. If you don't have an economy, you can't support anybody, let alone the First Nations. So there's a whole need for a wake-up call across Canada. But the good news is Alberta does not have this problem. We're ready to go.

We've got that problem resolved back in through the combination of the treaties in the 1800s and then the 1930s Natural Resources Transfer Agreement. We're good to go. So bringing it, yes, bringing it back to Alberta. Yeah. How do you see this unfolding? I've had my thoughts on it, you know, assuming more signatures, continue to be signed. And people, if you haven't signed, you shouldn't just hear, oh, yeah,

thresholds been met. No, you got to get out there and sign. You got to get out there and sign. Because even if you haven't decided on what you're going to vote on October 19th, it's really important that you have the right to vote and send the strong message about it. So let me say a few things. One is, you mentioned the Strait of Hormuz a minute ago. One of the things that's happened is that the situation, the Strait of Hormuz, has proven a bunch of stuff. Let's go through it. Number one, this net zero renewable energy crap is fairy dust. It's nonsense, right? Look at Europe and how they've tried to transition. Look at how far Germany's gone. And they're stuck because guess what? They're about to run out

a jet fuel. England's about to run out of jet fuel. If you if you look into this, Australia used to have nine refineries. Australia, the size of that country, the diesel they need, they have two. They're about to run out of diesel, right? They've even got signs up at gas stations, only emergency services vehicles. They did all that in pursuit of net zero. What's going on with the crises around the world, hitting home and developed countries, and even not so developed ones.

It's hitting Malaysia and Philippines and so on as well, is that the world runs off of oil and gas. That's the message. And this idea that we're moving away from it is patent nonsense. So not only do we have oil not getting to refineries to supply fuels, jet fuel, diesel, gasoline, and so on, we also have natural gas not getting to markets and the crisis that's creating. And imagine where we'd be as a country and a province if we had not had Trudeau blocking all this.

And the stability we'd be bringing to the world right now if we could have released our power of our resources for them. But guess what else there's a shortage of? Fertilizer. Right. fertilizer, urea nitrogen fertilizer. We don't have, Keith, we don't have any of that. What are you talking about? Wait a minute.

It gets better than that, Sean. And I know you obviously know this now by the sparkle in your voice, is that what's one of the few places in the Western world that is a net surplus producer of urea fertilizer and exports it? Alberta, right? So we've got the oil and gas. Oh, Australia has two refineries. We have five.

Alberta produces over 575,000 barrels a day of refined product. Australia produces 230,000, right? So I was at something the other day and someone said, oh, I guess we're going to run out of jet fuel here too. And I said, no, we've got the third largest reserve of oil in the world. We've got five refineries. We're never running out of jet fuel. Full stop, right?

Like full stop. We're good. The problem will be the jet coming back, you know, from wherever it goes, because they may not have fuel on their end. So, but, and then we've got the fertilizer. Well, what else are we short of? Have you heard about the crisis for AI and computer? computers and phones. Helium. Helium is needed to cool and purify the air when they make computer

chips. And guess where the most of the heliums they're coming from right now? It's the Middle East. Where are the ships full of helium? They're stuck at the Stratiform views. So they're worried that they're going to see this spike in the cost of anything computing, delay all these AI data centers. Well, Alberta currently produces helium, but our potential for helium is massive. We have formations that are rich in helium that we can produce. But of course, you know, we got to move to net zero, right? Because we got to stop the climate from changing 1.5. And we need carbon taxes and we need emissions reductions and we need methane rules.

And we need the pathway project. This pure nonsense. So what the events, the short, the critical shortages that are occurring around the world that have very serious repercussions are again highlighting the unbelievable and exceptional strengths of Alberta. Third largest reserve of oil and gas in the world, net producer of urea nitrogen fertilizer. And that doesn't even include potash, but in particular, if Saskatchewan goes with us, Saskatchewan is the largest reserves of potash in the world and the largest reserves of high-quality,

uranium. Like the fact that we have a federal government holding us back is just remarkable. These are conscious policies that are preventing Alberta and Saskatchewan from being the most prosperous place on the planet Earth. And those are objective facts. That's why, Sean, to be totally transparent, there are many days I try and talk myself out of what I'm doing. I would make way more money right now working on a legal brief. I'm not making any money doing this and I don't want to get paid to do it. The reason I keep doing it is I'm so concerned about the future for my kids and my grandkids. I'm looking at the dystopian direction of Canada at every level, socially, economically,

totalitarian, oppressive censorship, the deficit, the inflationary, the making our dollar worthless, the making cost of living unaffordable, the loss of hope and the drug addictions we see in our inner cities and homelessness and all of these different things, crime, two-tier justice system, you know, put arrest Tamara Leach, but let these other guys go free because of the color of their skin. It's just like, what? So I'm so deeply concerned. But each time I try and talk myself out of doing what I'm doing and say, nah, no, just

retire early and get a place in Phoenix and sit by the pool and have a beer. I come back to the basic critical facts, which are by every objective measure, it makes absolute sense for Alberta to become independent. We have a legal pathway. We're on it. We have the Supreme Court of Canada that's laid it out. We're following it. We have the ability for international recognition from our most important trading partner in the United States and others. And we have such wealth. And the only reason we're not producing the wealth, like a lot of times you have an idea, you know, you and I could think we've just developed the best widget ever. But the market goes, nah, don't want your widgets, right? The world's desperately in an existential way right now,

wanting our oil, wanting our natural gas, we're wanting our refined products, wanting our fertilizer. We have huge reserve we can be producing lithium, right? Why aren't we? Because the Carney and liberal government, the Trudeau government, have put in ridiculous laws designed to constrain our bivility to develop these resources and prosper. So, you know, you said, how do I see this unfolding? One of the things I'm working on right now behind the scenes is what's called the Alberta Transition Council.

This is separate and apart from the important work that Alberta Prosperity Project are doing, Dr. Modry and others, the important work that Mitch Sylvester is doing with the Stay Free Alberta. This is a separate standalone initiative. They're very aware of what I'm doing and they support it. The purpose of the Alberta Transition Council is to bring together some very smart but boring people who are knowledgeable and experienced in life and are experts in their field, whether it be oil and gas, military, international trade, monetary policy, and so on,

so that we can develop a transition plan that details all of the functions that the federal government currently provides for Albertans. and the transition plan will detail how the new government of the new country of Alberta will take over that function. So for example, the federal government currently runs passport offices and has a passport office in Edmonton and a passport office in Calgary. And they have a passport printing machine. So as part of the negotiation after the referendum, when Alberta becomes independent, we'll say to the federal government, will hire all of your workers at the passport office. We'll transfer them from the federal payroll to our payroll.

We'll buy the printing machine from you so that Alberta has the capability of issuing new Alberta passports without any interruption and may contain continuity of service. We'll do the same thing for running the airports, the same thing for the regulation of rail services. and rail transportation and so on. What's really interesting, Sean, is that this is not like you and I and Elon Musk trying to plan a trip to Mars, something that's never been done before and put humans on Mars,

where there's all kinds of unknown unknowns. We know exactly what the federal government does that Alberta would need to do. All of these things are known. The only question is how do we transition the delivery of the function, the service, the role from the federal government, from Ottawa, Tedmonton. And that's actually not that difficult when you really start to think about it.

So the purpose of the Alberta Transition Council is to prepare a white paper that will detail and answer everybody's legitimate questions. Well, what happens to my pension? What happens to air travel? What happens with my union trade certification? What's the bilateral relationship going to be with the rest of Canada? It's not like we're going to bring in a house mover and lift up Alberta and move it somewhere, right? We're still going to be here.

But we're going to be able to enter into adult discussions where we have leverage with the rest of Canada and say, okay, here's how we're prepared to interact with you going forward. Tell us how you're prepared to interact with us. Someone from Ontario came after me on Twitter or somewhere and said, you know, just leave. pretend you don't exist and I'm like, do you know about line five, which is the pipeline that goes down through Alberta, Saskatchewan and then across the United States and up into Sarnia and goes to the refineries there. And then there's the pipelines that go up to the Pearson Airport. You do realize that the jet fuel that's on the plane that's taking you on Sunwing to Cancun or wherever is actually getting its fuel from Alberta. And you want us to

to like stop everything? Have you thought this through? Right? So we are uniquely positioned. We can absolutely do this. We need the political will. We need the political courage of the Alberts. And so that's what I'm working on with this white paper and hopefully we'll be in a position to release it in June so that as we go into October, people can make a fully informed decision and hopefully vote yes. A couple questions before I let you out of here on this Council. One, I assume you're not releasing any names yet because you haven't released anything anyways, but as in Albertan, curious who would be on the council, I assume that's given, you've given lots of thoughts, you've listed off a bunch of different areas. At some point,

will Albertans be able to know exactly who's on the council? Yes. There'll be people, there'll be two categories. There'll be subject matter experts that are too concerned about political repercussion. And they'll provide comments. and input in writing. And then there'll be others who will be front facing who are prepared to withstand the wrath of the derensions. So there'll be two groups.

And then the other one that I was curious about, type of government, will that be addressed in the white paper as well? Are we just going to... Definitely at least on a transitional basis. I think what needs to happen is once we transition, there needs to be a transitional phase. And then once we're through that transitional phase,

I think there needs to be a constitutional conference where Albertans, a mechanism for Albertans to have input. The general vibe I get from talking to many is that the form of government that has the most appeal to Albertans is a republic where we don't have a connection to the monarchy. And that's become more symbolism than anything anyway in modern day times. We don't need to be part of a commonwealth, more of a republic style, bicameral. So we'll have two levels, two elected bodies to create ballots and keep government in check. That's my general thinking.

But I think we don't have to make those decisions right now. We need to first get out of this nightmare that we're in and free ourselves from the tyrants in Ottawa. They're never going to change. Short of this, why would they ever agree to give up any power? It just makes no sense for them to do so. So I don't think. they're going to agree to any structural or fundamental change to the constitution. I don't think they're going to agree to give Alberta more power.

They're obsessed with ideology. We've seen that. They're not as bad as the wackos at the NDP. But, you know, Mark Carney still believes in decarbonized oil. It's remarkable. And net zero. There was a, there was an article in the National Post, an interview by Donna Kennedy Glans of Brian, Brian.

Gould, who's the very senior guy in the oil patch, currently president of Aspenly. And he said in all of his dealings and deals, deals that he's done over the decades on behalf of Shell and other major corporations that he worked for, no one in Asia, no one around the world is asking for decarbonized oil. No one's prepared asking for net zero. Nobody's asking for emissions, restrictions. They don't care. They just want a quality, reliable product at price. They're not prepared to pay a single cent. So all of these, billions and billions and billions of dollars that will go to pathways and these other projects are simply taking wealth away from Albertans, wealth away from Canadians.

It's pure nonsense. The shortage that's occurring around the world is bringing forth again the importance of oil and gas and all across the board. There's now a spike. The cost of raw plastics is doubled because what's the input? It comes from oil and gas, right? So we are well positioned. The federal government's not going to change in my view.

We don't need them. They need us. And we'll be able to restore the adults in the room and stop this folly and this quackery and these pursuits of ideological extremism that we see and wokeism from the federal government because they won't have the luxury of money to engage in those behaviors like that reckless teenager, young adult that I talked to you about before. They'll have to really make some serious decisions. Do we spend $3 million? Does the Ottawa decide to spend $3 million on peasant rice farmer's gender training in Vietnam? Or do they put that $3 million to support a new hospital

in New Brunswick? Right? They'll have to get more serious and stop this nonsense that we have. So I believe we can definitely do this. It's going to be a lot of hard work, a lot of difficult discussions to get people on side, to see the opportunity and the excitement that it brings, and the wealth and prosperity for our kids and grandkids. But we've got a legal pathway. Keith, appreciate you hopping on and doing this. I'm sure there will be tons of feedback regardless. Thanks for giving me some time today discussing something that here in Alberta,

is top of mind for a good chunk of Albertans. Thank you.