Shaun Newman Podcast - #1046 - Matthew Rowley

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

Dr. Matthew Rowley, a fifth-generation Albertan, pastor, and historical theologian with a PhD in political theology, is the founder and president of Renew Alberta. Through the organization, Rowley advocates for Alberta independence as a means to preserve and restore the province’s traditional values—rooted in pre-Trudeau Canada’s principles of Peace, Order, and Good Government, Westminster parliamentary traditions, respect for the Crown, personal responsibility, and community self-reliance. Rather than framing sovereignty as anger or rupture, Renew Alberta presents a measured, historically informed case that positions independence as a way for Alberta to continue Canada’s original heritage in a setting free from federal overreach. Rowley, who also leads Milvian Strategies and TLI Canada, emphasizes disciplined organizing and credible arguments aimed at broader Albertan support.Watch the Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Lomago. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre-Core. Hi, this is Frank Paredi. This is Danielle Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crowe, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. How's everybody doing today? Happy Monday. Before we get into some of the ad reads, turned 40 this past weekend. So that was, I don't know.

It was a good day. Simple as that. I don't feel, I don't know, I feel like this is how I'm going to. be as I get older, like, don't feel 40. I think that's a good thing. I chuckled because on the actual 40th birthday, we had a garage sale, and then one of my brothers came over, showed it's dust, and he went out to the farm, took the kids, so

Mel and I went for supper while we were waiting on some things to sell. And while we're sitting there, you know, we didn't get dolled up or anything. Like, I went, I must have looked like I'd just come from a garage sale. Anyways, Mel looked lovely as ever, but me not so much. And we're sitting there and we're just, you know, quiet meal, nothing crazy. And there was a 30th birthday party in there, and they were whooping it up. And I was thinking, suppose that's what 30 is, and this is more like what 40 is. I was quite content with it.

Had no problems. Had a great day. And thanks again for all the birthday wishes, everyone. It was a good day. I mean, overall, it was nothing to complain about. I don't feel I wasn't scared of 40. I know there's the old movie, This is 40, and they paint it like it's this rough thing. I don't know. I'm happy with where I'm at.

And hopefully brighter days ahead. All right. So before we get to today's episode, how do we talk a little silver gold bull, shall we? What's the old silver wagon doing to start a week off? A buck 0314 Canadian as I sit here recording this. And when it comes to precious metals, silver gold bowl is who I point you to. They can help you with their in-house solutions, whether buying selling or storing precious metals. You can text or email gram for details all down in the show notes.

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the only way the wind can just come howling in. But before that, he was full on decks. I was sitting. I pulled out the Bible in the morning. I didn't have a cup of coffee. It was a nice day. Sun was shining. And any time I think a deck season, I think Windsor Plywood, when it comes to doing anything with wood here in Lloyd Minster, I stop into Windsor Plywood.

That's Carly Clause and his team there. Some ideas you might be stewing on. Mantles, decks, windows, doors, sheds. I mean, podcast studio tables. I just had somebody ask about the River table. Yes, I still have it. Yes, it is staring at me as I record this. And, yeah, when you're looking for character, would stop into the team at Windsor Plywood here in Lloyd Minster.

Substack, it's free to subscribe to. We're 62 days away from leaving on the road trip. So that was what the garage sale is about. We were selling things off. And as we get closer and certainly once we get on the trip, substacks where I'm going to be posting a lot of my thoughts or maybe some behind the scenes or maybe just a whole lot of, I don't know, life. from the road, I might say.

That seems to be where it's going to be at. So if you haven't become a free member, you should. You can catch the entire show there. And then if you become a paid member, you're not only support what I do, but there's some behind the scenes things happening, which obviously hopefully a win-win, win, win. If you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, Facebook, Substack, make sure to subscribe,

make sure to lead a review, and make sure to share with a friend. And if you haven't rated the show, do me a favor. scroll up to the top and give me a star rating figure out what I'm worth put it there I'll trust you all right let's get on that tail of the tape today's guest is the fifth generation albertan he holds his PhD in theology with a specialty and political theology I'm talking about Dr. Matthew Raleigh so buckle up here we go well welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today I'm joined by Matthew Rowley so sir thanks for hopping in thanks for making the drive oh I'm glad to yeah Nice drive anyway.

Well, it's the drive. Well, no, actually, you come from, did you hop on the main highways, or did you cut across country? I did 16 most of the way because I was actually down in Edmonton at a different event last night. So I thought, oh, what the heck, I'll come up the night before. Matthew, can you do me a favor? Could you pull that mic? See how it, you know, just give it a pull up.

There we go. Okay. Sorry, you came in on 16. Well, then you got the drive where you can pretty much close your eyes and just meander back through the slow curves. That's right. Yeah. Especially at this time of year with the sun out and all the highways being clean.

I mean, about a week ago, it would not have been a fun drive. No, it would have been brutal. I'd a friend up in Mack. He's a truck driver, and he was blocked completely from being able to get down the highway. So he had an unscheduled stop in Mack because he was plowing snow with his big rig. Now, before we get started, one of the things that happens, there we go, a little toss. Good catch. Nice.

Baseball season is slowly upon. honest. Anyone who makes their way, and then hot hands or hot potato. That's right. That's what they call me. Anyone who makes the trip here gets a one ounce silver coin. Nice. Courtesy is silver gold bull. I don't know if you're a silver guy. I am and I do appreciate Silver Gold Bowl. I think they're doing great job. Yeah, they, well, started in Rocky Mountain House, right? Yeah. I would say, I don't know, pretty darn successful story now that they stock. I don't know. I don't know. this place called Costco with its gold and and a whole bunch more. And a whole bunch more.

I grew up just down the road by Caroline, and so I know rotten monkey house very well, as we call it. Rotten? Rotten monkey house. Oh, rotten monkey house. Okay. Well, first time you've ever been on the podcast, before we get to renew Alberta and all that stuff, walk us through who the heck you are. Well, I'm a doctor of theology, funny enough, with a specialty in political theology. And when I did my stuff, I wanted to focus on Canada.

So I studied the church state, the way that the church and the state was developed in Canada, the relationship between those through a guy named John Strawn, who was first Anglican Bishop of Toronto, founded our education system, founded the University of Toronto as a Christian university. And then when the province took it away from him, he called it the godless university of Toronto and founded Trinity College as a direct competitor. A little bit of a fiery Scotts. So I started studying Canada.

I've always been politically interested. And for me, it was important to realize that we need to be engaged in the civic life of the nation. So I do a lot of things in that direction. My day job, I'm actually a traveling missionary professors. So I go over and I teach theology, Old Testament, church history in places like Serbia and Brazil, places like that. You're a traveling missionary? Did you say professor? Professor.

Professor, yes. That's a first. It's fun. Yeah, we have an organization called Training Leaders International, so that's my day job. So you go to different countries. Curious, how many countries do you've been to? Over 10? As far as teaching.

I've been to other countries as well. But yeah, our organization, we train all over the world. So, yeah, I end up going to a lot of places. I'm the president of the Canadian side. So I've been all over. Serbia is my favorite, though. If you want to go someplace, go to Serbia. Why Serbia?

they don't even know what a vegetable is. It's just meat as far as the eye can see. It's glorious. So for a meat lover, go to Serbia. Yeah, if you're a vegetarian, I wouldn't recommend it because you'll just be able to stare and watch as everybody else enjoys life.

But no, Serbia is a wonderful place. Post-communist, very interesting place to go if you're politically interested and you want to see what communism did to a society because they're still recovering from that. They still struggle with a lot of economic problems and a lot of other things because the government thought that it could fix everyone's problems by giving everyone a job, by making everything better the communist way. And instead now it's a place where if someone can leave, they generally do. Serbs look at especially the United States, but Canada too is kind of like the land of milk and honey.

Because to stay at home is to suffer and struggle and jobs are difficult to find. it's a difficult world. Wonderful people, some of the best people I've met, primarily because you can have an argument with them for six hours and still be friends. That's a talent then. You know, it's something we're missing in our society, I would say, right? Everybody says we're more divisive than ever,

but it's because we're so polarize. Like, we're just stuck in our camp. I don't know. I do my best to try and hear the other side, even when I disagree with it. Forgive me, I don't normally pull up my phone, but folks, I'm like, okay, Serbia, I got to put this spot in my brain, you know, because I'm like, where is it, you know,

in relative region to everywhere else, right? So it looks like if I'm doing this correct, borders Montenegro, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary's at the very top of it. Yeah, Croatia. The former Yugoslavia. Oh, yes, and Croatia for part of it as well. Man, that is a lot of countries to border. Yeah.

Well, it was once Yugoslavia. Right. The 90s happened. Again, when you want to talk about a country that's having some interesting methods of separation or whatever, it's an interesting case of what happens when a government actually tries to hold on. And the Yugoslav government was actually primarily Serbian. And when various parts of Yugoslavia said, hey, we want to go it alone, the Serbian government tried to keep them. And it ended up being very violent and very unpleasant.

a lot of interracial warfare, Croats versus Serbs, Bosnians versus Serbs, Croats versus Bosnians, et cetera, et cetera. It was just a mess. It's funny. People say, you know, well, who is the black hat and who is the white hat? Well, there was a whole lot of black hats roaming around, but not much of anything else. But it shows us that when you don't have an ideal of allowing the people to be the ones to have the voice and you try to force something, especially by force, it turns into something very. violent and very nasty. So it's a good warning that as government government's supposed to be the servants. They're supposed to be the people who are helping, not the people who are forcing.

And yes, they have the monopoly on force as far as legal force goes, but it must be used judiciously and carefully rather than to enforce their will in any way, shape, or form that they see fit. I'm curious, you know, I'm, I'm preparing, I'm doing a, I'm one of the hosts for a series on Colonel David Redmond's six pillars. And I've listened to him talk a lot about, you know, like you've got to be careful with independence because of places specifically like that that went through a lot of turmoil,

a lot of death, a lot of citizen on citizen death. And, you know, I've had many a military guy who come through the doors here, talk about their time over there and trying to understand what happened. You're for independence, correct? Completely. Here in Alberta.

Here in Alberta. Knowing the stories of what has happened in other places. Yeah. Alberta, to my mind, needs to be independent. And I think it's for the good of all of Canada, actually. It will make everyone else their life easier as well. They struggle with us because we're trying to go one direction and they're trying to go a different one. Let's just have a happy separation, you know, without violence, without need for anything unpleasant.

Go our own ways, be able to govern ourselves as we see fit on both sides. The example of a place like Serbia, the former Yugoslavia as a whole, shows us that if you try to force something where people don't want it, you end up with bad things. If people are going different ways, sometimes you have to let them go. You have the good examples like Czechoslovakia, which is now Czech Republic and Slovakia. Why? They had a referendum, something that might sound familiar. And they decided to go their own ways. You know, people have talked about Sweden and Norway, once a country.

and then they decided to go their own ways, and they separated into two countries. The difference is not so much if people want to be independent. It's the response of those that are in power in the country as a whole. If the response is, let's allow the people to actually have their say and have their will, and then let's try to do the best job that we can to make it a success, then it will be successful. You keep your relationships. You become good friends and good neighbors.

but you're allowed to have separate jurisdictions. And really in Canada, that's all we need. Alberta doesn't hate the rest of the country. We don't look at Easterners and say, oh, I wish they were all dead and I want to go and start a militia and attack them. Of course not. There are friends and our brothers. But we believe jurisdictionally that the most efficient way to govern

is to have a separate governing jurisdiction, an independent Alberta. That's not repudiating all that Canada was. That's not saying, well, we don't want to have anything to do with what Canada was. To my mind, and this is part of why we started Renew, Alberta, we are actually representing what Canada used to stand for before Pierre Elliott Trudeau, before this dramatic shift in the way the Constitution worked, in the putting the courts in charge of everything, allowing them to overturn laws and reshape Canada in a very progressive direction. We're loyal to people like John A. McDonald, where other people are trying to knock down his statues,

we're saying, well, why? He was a great man. We're loyal to the people who fought for the freedom of themselves and others at Vimy Ridge and Juno Beach. And I had an ancestor that was actually killed in a bomber over Germany and he's buried in the Reichs fault. Well, I'm loyal to his sacrifice. I believe that to look after the legacy that he gave us that he was willing to die for, we have to do this. You know, in the conversations I have on how it can go bad, the audience always reminds me,

what about all the places it went good? And you brought up a bunch of them, right? We always stare at it doesn't mean you shouldn't stare at that too because it can go really bad. Yeah. Right. And certainly we have a federal government, I would argue, that probably ain't going to play ball isn't looking at this with, oh, yeah, just let the people have their voice. I mean, in the last six years, we've seen how that's gone. So it's a good idea to, although look at how it can go amicably, right, peacefully, that we better be.

realistic in going down this road how it can, you know, turn. I had David Parker on for the Centurion Project, and I just had text sent to me. Did you see this? And it was an article in the Western Standard talking about their latest town hall where they had eight or nine police cruisers show up. And basically they're being investigated by Elections, Alberta. And I'm like, I was just kind of curious. I haven't got to it yet. And maybe somebody can text me by the time this comes out.

I'm like, what are they investigating them for? From what it sounds like, and again, I was there. You were at the hall. I was at the hall. Unfortunately, I came out after the police were gone, but the number I saw was six cruisers, but it's really. It doesn't matter. Even if it's one. One, yeah.

The good news is the police were very respectful. Elections Alberta decided there was something incorrect going on. And whether they're right or not will be dealt with later from everything that I understand there's nothing that was done that was illegal. They've checked with lawyers and everything and what they're doing was perfectly legal. But of course, the bigger issue is why would Elections Alberta approach it that way? Well, it speaks to the fact that there is this danger of some people within elections Alberta or within the government wanting to do what they can to stop the process. You will have to deal with that. What they don't, what's this funny though is like there's the Streisand effect every time you do this. It just puts more of a like, you know, I had heard. heard a little bit about the Centurion Project in passing. I wasn't really that interested. Just, you know, as a podcaster, I'm interested because I'm like, you know, like I'm always interested in new ideas. And then I found out David Parker was, you know, behind, I think, the idea. And I'm like, oh, I could just reach out to David and do a podcast and figure out what the heck this is, right? Just go to the horse's mouth. Yeah. And before that, you know, I run into people all the time. They're like, oh, yeah, I've been seeing the emails, haven't really engaged with it much, you know, whatever. And then you hear the

idea you're like oh geez it sounds like a pretty sound idea yeah and then if it isn't the same week they show up to the next town hall i'm like you you want it to not work so you put it in the headlines of the papers the same day or the next day i'm like it's having the opposite effect people from where i set anytime they put something in the headline now they're like i wonder what that is they actually are well if they're investigating it that much They must be a little over the target then if they don't want it to go on. That's it. Well, and it's funny how you know you're winning when they have to resort to dirty pool, right?

If it's a fair fight, if it's simple, if you can just argue it away, that's what you do, right? No big deal. You just do what they started to do at the beginning. Treat it with mockery and derision. But then they have to move on to, oh, wait, this, the mockery and derision isn't working. So now we're going to start pushing. And it seems like there's more people behind this or conversation starting to happen that would say there's a little more than a couple of angry people.

Yeah, because a lot of people aren't angry. One of the things that have actually really enjoyed about this independence movement is seeing how loving people are. It reminds me of a certain other event that may have happened in Ottawa a little while ago, where even though people are called a whole lot of names, you find that they're actually decent, normal, usually people that don't get involved in politics. But this is something that they believe in. And what do they say?

You know, just yesterday, Jason Levine said, you know what? The reason I do what I do is because of my two kids, right? I hear so many other people say this kind of thing. And for me, it's the same way. I have 10 kids. And for me, only 10 kids? Only 10. I'm working on a good-sized family, but it takes time.

But for me, I want to see them have a successful future. And it's not even just economic. I want them to live in a country where they can be proud of who they are and what their country stands for. I want them to be proud of. of the future and the past that we have. And it's a past that we used to share as Canadians, but now for some reason the rest of Canada keeps saying,

you know what, we wanna vote for a party and a group that wants to take a knee and call us a genocidal settler state and burn down our entire history. And I'm not willing to let that happen and there's a lot of other people who aren't as well. Well, I think that's, you know, after, well, not after, but as it becomes clear,

there will be a referendum. it's been interesting because, you know, sitting in my chair, I get calls from, you know, lots of different people. I got this idea going on. Would you have us on? I'm like, well, I'm all for Albertans doing what they can to pull in the same direction. Because at the end of the day, I'm just one guy, right? Interview different people.

Allow Albertans to have their say. That's, that's, I mean, at the end of it, if they vote not to go, I mean, that's, that's the will of the people. That's the will of the people. Yeah. That's what it's all about. But on the flip side, I go, are they going to get a fair shake from the CBC or the federal government or from a lot of different places?

Probably not. And so what do you do? Why don't you just keep bringing people on to talk about it in hopes good ideas are shared that help move the needle one way or another? I think of forward just in a way that people are more informed on what they can expect or whether or not they want to do this or not do this, right? There's tons of questions going to. on now as it gets more realistic.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's about educating people, helping people to understand and it takes away the unknown. You know, one of the great fears we have is the fear of the unknown. The reason death is so scary to people is because it's unknown. What happens afterwards? Well, you can have different people's opinions, but the only way to test it is a very irreversible way.

So there's this fear of the unknown and in political things, that's that's so much of the issue. Well, better the devil I know than the devil I don't. But when you think about it, when the devil that you know is as bad as this, all of a sudden it's worth taking the next step, doing what we have to do to go that extra distance. And yeah, there will be hardship. Anybody who says, oh, it's going to be, you know, sunshine and roses and you'll pay no taxes and everything's going to be fine. Two constants in life, death and taxes. So there'll be taxes. It's just reality.

We have to face those realities, but we have to dispel the fear. Well, one of the things when we were having our brief chat, you know, there had been so much focus on what motivates people. And money has obviously been talked a lot, you know, equalization, taxes, you're going to have more money in your pocket. We're going to be the wealthiest nation, all the different things. And one of the things I enjoyed about our brief conversation before he sat in here is I'm also a father, married man. And there's just different motivating factors for me. Mm-hmm. Right?

When you talk about getting back to what Canada was or just the values that we probably share, I'm going to assume, to me that's a motivator, right? Like, can we get back to common sense? Yeah. Is that possible? You've got Renew, Alberta, walk us through it. So basically, we're looking at it and saying, you know what, we want people to understand that you don't have to hate Canada or be unpatriotic to want independence.

the idea that we're somehow disloyal is really farcical because the old Canada, the Canada that we value is the thing that's under attack. So we want to present a picture of renewing Alberta through being loyal to the values that built Canada, that built the entire country and say independence is the only way to get there. We don't have to change everything about Alberta. We don't have to change the style of government. We don't have to completely rewrite our laws. We don't have to upend everything you know. All we have to do is cut off Ottawa. That's it. Just change the jurisdiction. Get Ottawa out of the picture. If we have to make adjustments to the Constitution, to all these things, that's fine. But do it slowly and carefully. And really, the day after a referendum,

not much is going to change, right? And in that process of listening to Albertans and making a new Alberta, it's not going to be scary. There won't be any dramatic revolution, no red guards with red banners running around, burning everything down. So we want the people who are undecided and the people even who would be a no to stop and to pause and to say, oh, wait, maybe it's not so scary what they're asking. Well, right? I mean, because the thing about fear is usually you don't have all the information. I don't have all the information, right? That's one of the things about talking to people is you start to build a bigger picture of what's actually going on. I might disagree if you vote to leave the day after, not that there will be red guards everywhere,

certainly not. But I can imagine the amount of political talk, if you're not one for it, will only increase the day after a vote and thereafter. The lead up, you know, as we get closer to this, is it going to get more intense or less intense? It's by far going to get more intense. there's going to be more attack. There's also going to be a lot of voices. And the number of voices is good.

We should have a lot of people who are thinking and even presenting a vision for the future because then it allows people to weigh everything up. Hey, this person thinks that we should become an anarcho-capitalist society where everybody just kind of gets along and there is no government. Okay, that might be an option. Here's another option. You know, I don't know anyone who's actually saying we should. But you can find someone who likes every sort of system under the sun. I think it's good to have all those voices and to be seeing that we're swimming in the same direction.

We're all moving the right way and we're all in it for the right reasons because we care about Alberta. And after that, it's talking enough that there's no fear of the unknown because we know who everyone is. And it's not just one voice at the table. There's a lot of voices there and people are going to be able to make an informed decision as all Albertans as to not just the referendum and independence, but then what it will look like to be Alberta afterwards. Yeah, the, um, part of me once upon a time wished everybody would fall under the same banner.

I don't know what to put that banner is because it doesn't really matter, right? Just, there's so many different ideas, so many different voices coming forward here in Alberta and afar, I might add, to talk about independence, right? And I'm like, yeah, that, It sounds really kumbaya. We can all march under this one banner.

But the thing is, the one banner ends up in the end point, which is a referendum. And as long as everybody's pulling towards that in their own unique ways, you're going to have different groups than certainly David Parker, although you were at the Centurion Parker. Centurion Project, sorry. As far as, you know, when you go the Alberta Prosperity Project is a different group and all these different voices and what are they all working towards, all one end goal. Exactly. Right? Yeah. And so you take all the disagreements of all the little groups like, man, we don't need to

invite. Like you cannot like somebody. It's fair. You can not like their idea. That's fair too. You don't have to listen to it. Actually, just turn it off and go listen to somebody else that you enjoy or you respect or, you want to have an open debate with and talk to.

And I don't know. This Renew Alberta, when I got sent it, I'm like, I wish you could see how many different people are doing different ideas. And sitting in this chair, I'm getting them all. And I'm like, holy man, is this going to be the next little bit? I suppose it is. It's going to be everybody talking about, hey, we're trying to do this. This is why.

So I come back to Renew, Alberta. What is your hope for it? Like, what was, you know, a father at 10, you know, hats off to you. What is your hope of it? Like, where are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? I mean, obviously, a referendum is at the end of it. Yeah.

And getting people educated on a yes or no vote. Yeah, our big focus is the undecided or the no and to help them to see a different view. There's really great people. You know, you mentioned the APP, a bunch of other people who have a vision. And it's a vision that's attractive to some. There's some that are kind of, you know, let's change everything. Let's just, you know, while we're at it, let's upend everything and go a different way. But what I didn't see was the voice that was saying, you know what, we don't hate Canada.

Or, you know, we don't dislike Canada. We don't want to, you know, throw everything away and become, you know, entirely different, a republic with all these different things. We just think Ottawa is the problem. And so we want to present a voice that says you don't have to, like I say, be disloyal. And I'm not saying that those guys are, but that's how it's sometimes presented, especially among those who are not sold on the idea of independence. One of the big attacks is, well, it's disloyal. You know, for me, I'm a monarchist. I actually really like the idea of the crown.

I like Westminster. People rise up and foam at the mouth. I'm not saying I like Canada's current Westminster system built by Pierre Trudeau. That's actually a French Republic camouflaged as a Westminster system. That's another story. But I like the root that we have of a thousand years of constitutional development, of careful thought, of growth, and people working together through all those years with great moments like the Magna Carta, like challenging King Charles I and saying

you're not allowed to be an authoritarian autocrat, people saying that we are actually going to have the rights of an Englishman no matter what, and they're not given by the government, but they're actually our inherent rights. I love that history and that tradition that we have that started Canada, that built what we had in Canada, that guys like McDonald and Laurier got behind. I mean, we had this wonderful Bill of Rights under Defenbaker. That's an amazing thing to read, because it's all the good parts of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms without trying to say that it's the government that grad see those rights. We have this amazing history and tradition in Canada.

So I want to say to people, you know what, it's okay. If you don't want to say I hate all of that stuff, that's fine. That doesn't mean your only option is to stay with Canada and be a forever Canadian and join Thomas Lukase. You can actually say, I'm good with most of how Alberta runs. I'm good with the political system. I'm good with the laws. I'm good with all those things.

but I see a problem with the Canadian Constitution and the Parliament the way it's working now. So let's cut that off. Let's change it. But let's change only what we have to. How are you going to talk to the, not how? Maybe how. Like, you know, you sit and you go, the undecideds are the ones that are like I'm just not leaving Canada. You know, like how are you going to engage with them?

Because I don't know, like over the course of, you know, I guess, going on seven plus years of doing this, but there's a certain audience that tunes into me. And I lose parts, I gain parts, you know, and you kind of, uh, some people probably wish I was more aggressive on one thing or less aggressive on another or talk, you know, like there's just, there's, it's, it's a journey for sure.

But in a short window, you know, what do we sit at here? You know, by the time this airs, it'll be May. Yeah. And, you know, you got months before October 19th. and I go, okay, lots of people have talked about the rural urban divide. Rural, I would say, I'm not going to say everyone's for it, but the majority. Majority, and I would say predominantly they're open to the conversation. Yes.

The closer you get to the city, and I'm not once again not stating that somebody in the city can't be interested in this or for it, but I would say that's where the pushback comes from. And so how do you get into those places and actually have people engaged? Yeah, and so, I mean, we're starting, obviously, with videos and with articles, with doing things like this, getting our voice out as far as talking to people, and then connecting with people. And it's really about persuasion. Again, the way you go about speaking your message is just as important as what the message is. I'm a Christian missionary. I've learned this through doing my work, right? If I approach you and I say, you should believe exactly what I believe in. If you don't, you're bad. You're probably not going to listen to me. But if I sit down and have an honest conversation with you and especially allow you to ask questions and have those questions answered and not say, oh, you're bad for asking questions. You're wrong for even thinking that. Aren't you stupid?

Instead, if I allow you to actually engage with the fears, with the concerns, with the ideas that you have, and maybe you walk away saying, no, I'm still forever Canada, that's fine. But if we've had a healthy, honest, respectful conversation, then even if you're still a forever For Canada, we've actually made a connection that's going to last no matter how this referendum goes. The reality is the day after a winning referendum, there will still be probably 45% of people that voted against. And we want to make sure that those people still feel heard, valued, respected. I'm campaigning to win a referendum on a vote that I think will change Alberta and make it

better in a way, bring it back. Renew Alberta. but I want to respect those who have a different vision. Unlike the liberals or those that are running Canada right now, I don't believe that we need to have ideological uniformity, that we all need to think the same way, act the same way, believe the same way. I need to teach and train a dialogue, the ability to do that. So that's what we're trying to do.

And in that, change people's minds, persuade them rather than force them. Yeah, some of the most impactful conversations I've had on independence have come from complete strangers, where I just bring it up, because I seem to bring it up all the time now, more out of a curiosity to see what my fellow community member thinks. And lots have said, what is it going on? Oh, yeah.

No, I'm not for that. Oh. And then you just explore their thoughts. And it's interesting. I'm like, I have no idea if I've changed any minds. More, I hope I've got them thinking about it. Because if you're not thinking about it, it's kind of like the way I used to go into any,

political vote. Hang on. I don't know. I'm just going to vote conservative. I'm giving it zero thought. That's right. And this is way more important than giving it zero thought. Yeah.

It's vital that we think deeply. And even on the independent side, it's part of why I'm presenting a little different voice than other people. I do think we need to think deeply because we can win the war and lose the peace. Brexit, they had this problem, right? You got the Brexit referendum across the line. Great. Now what?

Then the government takes it and they start doing well, Brexit, but, and they start twisting things. And they allow in, you know, a billion illegal immigrants and they have so many problems still that were the reasons people voted for Brexit. So it wasn't just, oh, we won the referendum and now sunshine and light falls from the sky and everything's good. How the country is governed or what we do afterwards matters just as much. Well, that's civic engagement. Exactly. Right. Keeping people engaged.

Yeah. And so with Renew, Alberta, it's not. just about the referendum, but it's about the next step too. And it's helping people to think it through. Hey, you want a republic. You know, you love the United States system. That's great. Let's think about this, though. How often does the Supreme Court down there do the same thing that we've been so annoyed with up here? Why do we care how many conservative justices there are, how many liberal justices? Because they have immense power to control against the will of the elected people. What's going to happen? Hey, when does the American president go to question period and actually get challenged on what he's doing by people in the Congress?

Oh, wait, never. Why? That's not their system. So while they have an interesting system and while there's so many good people in the United States who are doing good work, we should stop and say, hey, do we just want to copy someone else and take on their problems? Or do we want to say, you know what, maybe ours is the illustration I always give is when you have a car and it breaks, Do you shoot it and go get a horse? Or do you fix it? Do you look at the car?

You say, oh, this is broken, that's broken. The wheels are pretty bald. Depends. Do I have unlimited money or am I working on a budget? Exactly. Because if I'm working on a budget, I'm trying to find an auto wrecker that has the part so I can just put it together and keep it rolling. If I got an unlimited budget, I'd probably get rid of the car if it's not the thing I want

and I go find the car I want, you know, like, you're a guy who's toured all these different countries as a missionary, right? Yep. Which means you've been around. Like, when you go to Serbia, how long do you go for? Generally, about two weeks at a stretch. Is that long enough to get a feel for the culture and the people and how they interact and everything like that?

Well, I've gone, what is it, 12 times now? To Serbia or to Serbia? To Serbia. But yeah, you get a feeling after a while. I'm in constant communication with them. They're all my friends. The beauty of modern technology is that when you're gone, you're not really gone. But yeah, you can get a feel for it.

And more importantly, just in traveling and visiting places, in being well read, historically well read, I'm a history nerd. You know, I was homeschooled. So my method of homeschooling was literally reading every history book in the Rocky Mountain House Public Library. And that's just what I did. My mother wouldn't let me have non-fiction books, rather. So I had to read nonfiction.

so bless her for the amazing education I got. But you start to see some commonalities. You start to see this story over and over again. People frustrated, seeing a problem, but then the solution maybe not being what it should be. A famous illustration is the Bolshevik revolution. If you go back and read about the days of the czars, it was rough. It was bad. If you and I were there, we'd be ready to mount a rebellion too. And along came the Bolsheviks. And they said, you'll have freedom. You'll have equality. You'll have pay. You'll have bread for everyone. Everyone will have a house. It'll be great. They didn't mention the secret police and the Lubyanka prison and the gulags and all the other pieces that were there necessary to protect the revolution. We've got to look after it and keep it pure.

They wanted the freedom. They recognized the problem. But the answer that they gave was not necessarily the best answer. And throughout history, this has been the problem for humans. Yes, we recognize the problem, but the solution is just as important as the problem. And going slow and steady, a basic principle, I'm a conservative. I'm not a classical liberal. I believe that what we have should be valued, should be cared for, and we should recognize that the things from the past that were carefully grown and developed should never be just destroyed, cut down, and burned because it's not easy to replace them once they're gone.

Have you ever read Gulliver's Travels? Oh, goodness. long, long time ago. People think it's a kid's book. It's actually one of the most brilliant political satires you'll ever find. And each of the places that Gulliver travels to is a different political ideology of the 18th century. And one is this floating island. And it's these guys that are so smart and thinking such great thoughts that they can't even focus

on a conversation and they have a servant with a little inflated bladder to bat them on the side of the head to keep their attention back on you. And they developed the perfect system of government. It is a model of efficiency and all the good things. And so in order to implement it, they literally destroyed their country. They burnt it right down and left at a smoking ruin. And then there was nothing left. And so they float around on this island above their destroyed kingdom,

thinking great thoughts with the perfect constitution in hand and yet with a dead country. And it was Swift's way of reminding us that, you know what, It's you can't just remake humanity or a country out of whole cloth. You can't tear everything down and rebuild it. The history and the past of the country continues on. And you have to work with what you have and then change it slowly. Change is good. Me saying that is strange because I don't like change.

But change is good. It just has to be well thought out and carefully done before you do it so that you don't accidentally break something. Yeah. the word or thought comes to mind is vision, right? You need to know what's the old saying. Without a vision, the people will perish. That's right. And you go, I think, oh yeah, people are going to hear some noises in the background.

So I should remind me vision. I should tell people, you know, you got a new studio. Why aren't you in the new studio today, Sean? Well, as we get ready to leave for a year, things are changing rather rapidly and two months may seem like a long time but when you're leaving for a year two months is not a long time and so I'm running around with my head chopped off and I have to do a bunch of things today and so the old studio this studio is becoming the current studio all over again because of things going on in my life that just proximity matters which means the guys are

working on something I'm like oh that's funny I don't know how much it comes through the mics but regardless it might be a couple noises folks So my apologies. Regardless, vision. You know, one of the things that we have been lacking in this country for pretty much my entire lifetime. Because I remember asking a question of one of my uncles, you know, what's wrong with government? And this was before I was doing any of these political interviews. It's like, oh, they just lack vision.

Yeah. What? And he's like, they just lack vision. Where did they actually want to take us? And their vision, I think, you know, out east in Ottawa, once again, I'm not. talking about even, you know, and so many of the listeners out there, it's, it's the vision of where the government's taking us, isn't where I want to go anymore. I don't want to go there. And so what I think Alberta independence represents, at least in its infant stages, is a place

where I'm like, yeah, there's, yeah, okay, I get the money, but where are we going? Because if you can paint that picture, I think you get myself and a whole bunch of people on board. with it. But without a vision of where we're going, I mean, you just painted the, you just gave a great example of the clouds, right? We got this great place. Yeah. We're going to burn it all down. Exactly. And you're like, wait a second, that doesn't make any sense. And what you see is money's not enough. If someone says to me, hey, everything is perfect about your country, but if you completely abandon your country, you'll get 5% more on your paycheck every year or, you know, 15%. That's not enough for me. I'm in Alberta. I was born here. You know, my family's been here since 1898. We have

long history here. So I would rather stay here. I have friends that move down to the United States for good jobs and they're like, come, it's great. Probably is. I think I'd get along really well in Texas. But I'm in Albertan. So it's not about economics. It's about what we value, what we believe in. I think Margaret Thatcher's memoir should be mandatory reading for every conservative politician. Oh yes. Because she came into the conservative party in a time when they said, manage decline is what we have to hope for. Labor is winning. This was Ted Heath and the other guys that were there in the Conservative Party before her. Labor is winning the argument. They have all the things. Socialism is advancing. All we can do is hope to slow it down, but it's inevitable

that we will be defeated. And Margaret Thatcher came in saying, no, that's not how it's going. She had a vision. She had an idea, a passion for the direction that she wanted Britain to go. And everybody tried to stop her. Her party, the other party, when she got into government, the first thing all the officials did was they said, we understand that you have this thing that you want to do. But here's the crisis. So put that on hold until the crisis is over and just compromise for a while. And what did she say? The lady is not for turning. And she kept pushing Britain in the direction that she believed it was supposed to go. And indeed she changed. Britain, she brought it back to something that it was. Ralph did this. When Ralph came in, I was listening to Jim Dining talk, and he said, you know, when we got in the first time and we made these dramatic changes, we expected that we had one shot and then we were going to be voted out because we were going to anger everybody, but it was what was right for Albertans. So we did it. And they got reelected again and again and again because they did what was right for Albertans. And people could see that.

And in the same way, when you have leadership that says, let's do what's right. Things are healthy. In Ottawa right now, we have a centralizing, authoritarian, jurisdiction gobbling government that steps in where it doesn't belong to do things that don't need to be done and to waste money that shouldn't be spent. And that's more than just an economic argument. It's about them saying our vision is that we will tell you exactly what to think, how to act, what to believe all the way down the line. We know it all. There is no other vision than our vision. That's the way that they talk and they believe it. And we want to change that because that's not right.

Yeah, the, um, I just, you know, uh, oh man, I got a couple thoughts rolling here. Folks, forgive me if I steer us off path, but I find the more people I talk to. I might be becoming a cynic. Like it can't and I don't like that about myself because I'm an eternal optimist. I believe we're, you know, better days are just, it could be tomorrow, right? And I've learned that through, uh, well, finding God, full stop, right? Like, there's been a ton of peace that have come with that. And I know people get, some people love that, some people get annoyed by that, you know, I'm not here to try and win everybody over, I guess, just on what's, uh, worked in my life. And, um, yet,

there's so much turmoil. There's so much, you know, noise. There's just things going on, right, that are just hard to comprehend. And I find myself turning into a cynic and I don't like it. So it's conversations like this that kind of snap me back because Thatcher, that's a, that's a, well, we've been all been saying, I've been saying, you know, a hockey player. Like, why can't Steve Isman just run the country? Watch that guy run a hockey team. Now, of course, Detroit, for all the sports fans, didn't make playoffs again.

But like you watch him at a press conference take the heat over and over and over again. Yeah. I'm like, now that's somebody you could fall behind. And I think a lot of us are waiting for somebody we can fall behind. And yet in a movement like this, what the Freedom Convoy taught me

and certainly what all the different voices of Alberta and Penins teach me is it takes many to get it to a place where you want to get it to. And then you need to create a vision as a people to entrust it to somebody to enact your vision. I think. I think. And I hate to say something that's going to offend a lot of liberals or people who like central big government. Governments not always the answer.

One of the things that Albertans are feeling is so wrong right now. I say, you know, there's just this intangible feeling sometimes of man, things are not right. And it's that that needs to change and independence will help with that. But the reason is because we keep looking to the government. I spent two years out in Ontario while I was doing my my PhD and I realized the difference between the way that they see the world and we see the world and again it's not bad it's just different I was walking with a friend conservative friend and we were talking and as we were walking there was a piece of garbage now if you or I see a piece of garbage on the side of the road what do we do we pick it up and instead he said the

government should have a guy to pick that up and to me that encapsulated the difference between how an alberton thinks and how how someone in Ontario thinks and again not bad it's It's okay to want big government. I just don't, and I don't think Albertans do. We believe that if you have a problem, you should be able to solve it yourself, and the government should get out of the way. Jim Dining said it really well. He said, government should be as hands off as possible, so that when it has to, it has

gained the authority and the respect to reach in a meaty claw and do something. And I think that's the perfect image. That's what we want as Albertans, is not to look to the government to end. answer all of our partners. You are sitting in an area that for a long time and maybe it's changing now but for a long time, very independent, right? Kind of the stepchild of both provinces

because we're border city, right? And we're on, you know, we're not an easy place to get to. You know, we're not, we don't have the international airport or the Hamilton Oilers or I don't know, go go elsewhere into Saskatchewan and they got different things and, you know, big universities and et cetera, et cetera. But what this place did produce in mass was entrepreneurs who figured out problems, solved them, made money for themselves, put it back into the community.

You know, some of the stories I love here is, you know, like the golf course. I wanted a golf course. So they built a golf course. They didn't wait for a government subsidy to come through. Now, were the government subsidies that came through? Certainly. Just go to all the small communities and the rinks and read up on some of the history of when they got built and where some of the money and materials came from.

Like there, there are things where the government, as you say, can step in. But for a long time, this area was built by self-made men and women. Yep. Yeah. My grandfather, great-grandfather, when they needed telephones in the Clive area, what did they do? A bunch of farmers got together and they strung the wires and they built the exchange. They did everything that had to happen for the telephone to come through. When they needed electricity.

same thing. They didn't go, okay, I wonder when the government's going to bring the electricity in. No, they said, we need electricity. Let's do it. And that's the Alberta way. I always love to say, Albertans got here before the government did, right? When my ancestors showed up in 1898. That's a good line.

That's the reality, though, is there was no government to look to. People who came here and homesteaded, if they didn't work together, if they weren't community-minded, and help each other out. If they didn't care about the people around them, everybody died. And it wasn't like, oh, maybe it'll be a bad day. You're going to freeze to death. You're going to starve to death. You're going to die. So we developed this way of approaching life that said, we do care. We can't just be rugged individuals who say, screw everybody else. I'm going to do it my way. Because then the neighbor dies. And I like my neighbor. So instead, we learn to help each other, to care about each other, but not from an attitude of, I'm going to make you do what I think you should.

You think we can back to that? Oh, heck yeah. Are you kidding? Humans can do anything. Not true. If we believe properly, as you said, it takes a heart change sometimes. But if we look at it and we say, yes, we can, it sounds Obamaish. If we look and we say, we can do it, there's nothing we can't do as Albertans.

That's one of the powerful things about this province that I love. Just because Obama said it doesn't mean it's wrong. That's right. Exactly. Well, Bob, the builder said it. first, so I'll go with that. But when you think about it, it's a beautiful thing that we have in Alberta, that Albertans, our answer is let's go do it ourselves.

You know, when there was that problem with the flood in Calgary, right? A bunch of houses ruined and things wrecked. What happened? A bunch of guys got in their trucks with a shovel and went down and started to help dig. Because it was the right thing to do. Because people needed help. If there's a fire to fight, people don't go, oh, I wonder when the firefighters are to get here. You get in your truck and you go over and you do what you can. Like your neighbor has

problems. You help them out. Well, I remember covering BC wildfires and a lot of things coming out of there was that they weren't allowed to go out and help, right? They were blocked. I think that's happened here in Alberta too, if memory serves me correct now. Yeah. And that's government getting in the way. Totally. Yeah. You know? And more can we get back there. It's just, of course we can. is there the will to get back there? That is the question. And really that's a bit what the referendum campaign is about. Do we like the direction that we're going?

Do we want to just sit down and take it and be part of what Canada is doing? Watching the canvassers, my hat's off to them. I talked about it an episode or two ago, folks, about the people sitting out in the cold. Yep. You know what? You can either complain about the cold or you can welcome it. Like, yeah, this is awesome. me I said when the Freedom Convoy was going on and we're driving across, you know, this barren land in minus 40 weather.

And, you know, it's just miserable. Yeah. You just embrace the suck, you know, because that's what Canadians do. That's what our ancestors did. That's it. I point to Fort Pitt Trails is a book of basically the early settlers from my area and all their stories. and the hardship they went through. And the majority of this story say at the end,

but we were happy. Yeah. And they looked after one another. It was super cool. I mean, I can't imagine living through that. I mean, just look at all the creature comforts we have today. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's possible to get back to.

It's possible to have all that will. It's one of the things I love about, Albertans in particular, but Saskatchewan ain't far behind or right beside. Totally. And you know what? To the listeners who listen in northern BC, or Ontario or wherever. It's all the same.

Yeah. It's all a similar type of person. It's just there's this absolute determination of like things aren't right. And I don't like the way we're going. And we could pack up and leave and lots have and lots more will. Yeah. And that's okay. But there's a whole lot of people like Matthew are like,

I don't know, Alberta's just in my veins. And I want to stay. That's it. And I believe we can. build something better. Yeah. On top of what we have. That's it.

I always say if you cut me, I bleed Alberta dirt, right? That's the way that we are as Albertans. We value what we have. And it's more than, it's the most welcoming value ever. It's one of the things I really love about Alberta too is you can become an Albertan and you can be from anywhere. And all you have to do is come, work hard and be part of our society. That's all we ask.

It's very simple. If you want to be one of us, we welcome you. If you want to come and use Alberta and then, you know, not actually be one of us, that that's problematic. And we're seeing that now with a wash of too many, you know, people coming from elsewhere who are just kind of flooding in and not actually becoming part of society. What did Daniel Smith say? They brought in 150 million to the economy, I think.

And they took out 1.5 billion. Exactly. I think it was 10 times the number. Yeah. When you have advertisements, for all the different remittance platforms so that you can send all your money back to the country you came from because you're really just here to make some money and then go home. That's a problem. And it'd be a problem for me if I went down to the States for just the same reason. I can't do

that to them. It's not fair. But we see so many people. My great-grandfather came from Ukraine, right? He was my mom's grandpa. And he fled. In 1926, he arrived. He worked on the CN rail. He got himself a homestead down by all concert and had to go and work in the coal mines in the winter in order to make enough money, farmed in the summer, worked on CN Rail at the same time, worked hard, he was Ukrainian. And he loved going to the Ukrainian club and talking Ukrainian and sitting and drinking vodka with people. But if anybody who was not Ukrainian was around and someone spoke in Ukrainian, Grandpa John had an angry temper if he needed it. And he would say, you are in Canada. You speak English, you be part of Canada. He was Orthodox, but he joined the United Church of Canada. Why?

I'm in Canada. I go to a Canadian church now. His mindset was, I'm not abandoning who I used to be. I'm not abandoning my Ukrainian roots, but I came here to be part of this country. And so I'm going to do so. And that's how all of us started here, right? So it's a wonderful welcoming place. And I love that. And it's as far as anywhere else I've been in Canada, maybe Saskatchewan an exception. It's the most welcoming place. We have a lot of welcoming people in Canada. But Alberta's special because you can be part of us. Yeah, and I say the prairies are special. I grew up in Saskatchewan, but being so close to Lloyd, it was this kind of weird. I didn't, it was hard to call yourself, oh, I'm from Saskatchewan, but like I spend so much time on Alberta because we're a stone throw from it. So you see the beauty

of both, both provinces and what they offer. Like it's, you know, it's, they're almost, The cultures are very similar. Yeah, we're like Siamese twins. And how many people have left Saskatchewan to go to Alberta? Yeah, and vice versa. Yeah. Since the Sask party got in vice versa, it used to be a pretty one-way flow. But I mean, you look at what's going on in Saskatchewan right now.

It's another example. When you move a government that says we want to be big government, we want to give everything socialized, we want to do all those type of things, when you move that out of the way, and you get a government that says, go nuts Saskatchewan, do what you can, all of a sudden Saskatchewan's economy takes off. I remember back in the 90s, there were advertisements for whole towns for sale for $35,000. Try and find a place to live now in Saskatoon or Regina or anywhere.

For anything less than Calgary money, you're going to be finding a difficult task because they're actually taking control of their future and doing something great. So I find a lot of agreement with Saskatchewan. To me, I think if Alberta is independent, I do hope great afterwards, Saskatchewan would follow suit and come and join us.

because I think we would be a great country together. Oh, we'd be an absolute powerhouse in the world. You combine just the resources. Oh, man. And that's not to say the people. No, exactly. The people that like to get things done. Yeah.

Right. It's such a cool place. I actually spent two and a half months in Saskatoon. I was teaching to college there. And just being around Saskatoon people is like, yeah, I'm home. I'm comfortable. This is not foreign to me. These are the same kind of people with the same culture.

And culture is a unique. thing. I always say to people, a nation is defined by its language, funny enough, when you go into the theory. But it's not just the words that you speak, but it's what those words mean. You have to agree in your head that this word means this. And that's the language. It's the entire cultural context behind it. When I talk to a Saskatchewan person and I say freedom, they think the same thing as me about what that means. You know, if I look and I say, the government, they're going to go, yeah, the government. They're not going to be like, what, you should have a problem with the government? Governments are great. So we have that unity and it's good. And Albertans have that. We have this

wonderful unity across the province, city or rural, I find. Yeah, I'm, I come back to, you know, it's been a while since I've been across all of Canada. 06 is when we biked it. So that's 20 years. Wow. So 20 years ago, we biked cross. And, uh, I, I always, always point to, well, roughly two stories, but the nicest person we met was in Ottawa. He was a fantastic old man who treated us very well, met him, befriended on the road, and he was very kind to us. So I know that's all across the country.

And one of the things about going out on this road trip, so we're spending a year, and the family's coming with, and we're going to go across Canada, right, all the way to Newfoundland and talk to a lot of people who've been on the podcast before but in the back of my head I'm like man I'd like to talk to some everyday Ontario ones yep Quebec you get the point every every promise because I'm just kind of curious you know when I when you say the piece of garbage and he goes oh we need somebody from the government I kind of want to hear that for myself yeah totally just be like oh there is a giant difference yep you know it's kind of my one hopefully a way of getting out of my own echo chamber that I've quietly built for myself.

It's like there's more to the world. There are different perspectives. And I'm curious to hear a bunch of those, I guess, you know? Yeah, I mean, your world travels. Would have shown you that in, I don't know, spades or hearts. All over the place. You find that we see our world as if everybody thinks the same. Which is not true.

Which is not true. And we think this is the center of the universe. Which is also not true. You go to Kenya and you go into some of the places I go where literally I'm the only white guy and every time someone sees you, they go, who is it, Muzungu? Mizungu, because I am the only white guy they've seen a long time. And you ask them about what's the things that they value, what's the center of their world. It's totally different. They have a different way of doing everything.

They have this thing called Ugali. I don't know if you've ever tried it. It's this like corn mash. Certainly not. It's like corn bread except oatmeal. It's really interesting. Anyway, that's their food, right? It's totally foreign to anything we have here, and yet if you don't have a gali at a meal,

you're failing. Like, totally different way of seeing the world. My friend George over there, he lives in a three-room house made of cow dung and straw and mud. And he's actually a very wealthy man. But his world is just different than my world, right? Everywhere you go, you see this. And it's not bad. That's one of the big things I think that's we create an us and them mentality.

you know, they have a different culture and a different way of doing things. So they must be bad because it's not my culture. Why? That's just the way they do it. Now, when people come here, that's where it becomes a problem, right? If you want to transplant your culture into a culture that's already there, you're going to have a fight. If I go to Quebecers, you should start being more Albertan, I better run for the exit. You know, it's not going to be a pretty picture, right?

If I go to Serbia and I say, Serbs, you know what? Enough of this. Stop being Serbs. Stop valuing your history. Stop valuing all the things that you value. Isn't that what we see happening worldwide? Exactly. And isn't that why there's so much turmoil?

That's why there is so much hate and problems. People couldn't put their finger on it. Well, certainly some could, but for a lot of us, we couldn't put our finger on it for a very long time. Yep. And then you go long enough, you go, oh, it's the way we've lived life. They're calling it evil. Yeah. And not only that, but they're saying you're evil.

If someone comes up to you and says, because of who you are and where you're from, you're bad. and you need to sit down and be educated in blah, blah, blah, DEI, this, this and this. You go, well, I'm not bad. I've never persecuted or harmed anyone. How come I'm being attacked? Well, you're white or, you know, you're a male or you're cisgender or all these things that they pull out as a reason to attack you.

Well, no, I'm a human and you're a human. And so we shouldn't hate each other. But we want to do that. We have this desire to be tribal. I have this. So do you remember the one? million march for children. I do, yeah.

So we did an event in Lloyd. I think we had, forgive me, 700 people roughly there, but we had, first time I've ever truly probably experienced it, we had 11 very, well, no, 11 protesters, I think it was, and four of them, very, very, very vocal. It was a tense few hours. But it was all done.

there was a meal there and so everybody said, you know, breaking bread and invited them to stay for all the people who just yelled at you for like two hours, invited them to stay for lunch, right? And so I think like four or five of them stayed, they ate and sat and it was just like peace and I was looking around.

I'm like, I think this is what society's supposed to be like. Yes, yep. Right? Like I disagree with how they handled themselves, full stop. But they're sitting there and you got a guy on stage playing a song, And every once in a while, one of them would yell something at them. I don't know even know what was upsetting them.

And he'd keep playing. And they just, it was just peace. Kids running around, everybody out for almost a Sunday afternoon picnic. That's right. Yep. I'm like, I think this is the straight, right, if you would have taken a video of people, you almost come into blows and losing their mind and yelling at the speakers and it was, it was intense to two hours after, you would have thought it was model society.

That's right. Right. But that's the problem of fear. If I'm afraid and am a living out of fear, then I have to attack. I have to lash out to protect myself. That's one of the things in the independence movement we have to stay away from. You know, oh, the government's going to get you. So what? Don't fear. Perfect love casts out fear. God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power of love and of a sound mind. Chill people to put it in a different non-biblical way. Relax. Because you know what? If you just do what's right and focus on the truth, it's okay. Yeah, someone might scream and yell at you.

Look beyond the screaming and yelling to who the person is and try to understand them. You know, when I'm teaching, one of the things I say is you should be able to make the other side's argument better than they can. And then you should be able to demolish it. But know what they think, why they think it, how they're viewing life. Yeah, isn't it, oh, my goodness. Lawrence of Arabia. Isn't it from him that comes, how do you need to learn to speak their language first before you can sway them one way or another before you can even unite them?

Yeah, I can't remember the quote, but that's exactly it, is if I'm going to truly persuade somebody, I can't straw man them. Well, why would anyone want to stay in Canada? Well, let's actually ask that it a different way. Why do you want to stay in Canada? Oh, okay, you have this reason, this reason, this reason. Well, have you thought about these things? Okay, how about this?

And before you know it, you've actually made a friend, even if you disagree, it's the old understanding of a community. You know, nowadays we have the community of, you know, the left-handed paper hanger people and the Warhammer 40K people and the, you know, the people with the blue hair and the guys that really like flags and trucks. And we divide ourselves into these homogenous groups. And we say we all have to think and act alike. And if anybody transgresses anything, we throw them off the bus. We call them a government plant or the Illuminati or something. But the old idea of a community was it was the place you lived and the people you lived with. And you had your crazy uncle over there and you had that nut on the end of town that didn't even wear pants.

And you had all the other people good, bad and ugly, who all were part of the community. And even though they disagreed, they lived together. In these days, I'm probably going to talk to old crazy uncle because I'm like, You probably got that label because you actually have some sound ideas that everyone's like, no, that's crazy. That's right. She's a witch. Why is she a witch? Well, because she doesn't do what we do.

Did she turn you into a newt? Is that what the issue is? If anyone gets the reference, I'm pleased. If people want to find out more about Renew, Alberta, I don't even know. Can they join Renew Alberta? Like, I guess, you know, like I understand the thought of educating people and everything. But now, you know, like, if people. People are listening to this.

They like what you say. Is there a way, I don't know what the goal. Like, I understand the education part and pulling towards Alberta independence. But I'm like, you know, how many places start with this very simple idea and turn into a political party or some money hungry? Right. I don't know. I can think of a bunch of different ways where it gets turned and then people are soured by it and they walk away. If people wanted to get involved, what can they do?

Can they get involved? What is the overall, you know, vision? Is it just done at the referendum? No. Is it past that? So you can go to renewalberta.ca and sign up for our mailing list and sign up to volunteer if you'd like to help again spread, spread message, get the, get the voices amplified for independence.

But for us, it's beyond just independence. It is that next step. Win the war, then win the peace. So we want to help to shape the discussion of what Alberta, will look like and then be looking long term into the health and the prosperity and the flourishing of Alberta. And it's never going to be about a political party. I do say to people, we actually do have a really great party in the UCP.

Some people like to throw shade at them and flack at them. We have a premier who, when somebody tried to stop a referendum in the courts, she stepped up, they passed a law, they fixed it. So I always say to people, politicians are never perfect. If you find a perfect politician, you just haven't found the problem and the flaw. And in fact, they're probably lying to you and they're a liar or schmuck, you know. Ralph was great because he was honest. You could see his flaws.

And Danielle Smith and the UCP, I think, are doing very good. So let's not divide and allow, you know, some other political party that's a Forever Canada party to come in and take control. Could you imagine winning a referendum and then having to head and Enchi win the next election and be the one to shape a new Alberta? for me that would be problematic. And I'm a conservative by mindset or default. So it's not about a new political party. It's not about creating some sort of organization so a bunch of people can sponge more money off of people.

It's about a passion for Alberta. And if you want to be part of that, if you want to volunteer, if you want to help with us, if you just want to know what we're doing, sign on up. You can donate if you want to. It's not cheap to drive to Lloydminster these days. I almost hit $2 a liter gas. It's crazy.

A buck 89. blew my mind. I can remember 35 cent gas. I'm not that old. Well, I remember the gas wars of when I was a kid and people driving to vermillion and get the cheap gas. Yeah. And honestly, last night, I was in Lashburn and I knew it was a buck.

I don't know if it's a buck and 89 in Lloyd. No, I think it is a buck 89. It's getting up, yeah. It was a buck 53 in Lashburn. So I was like, well, fill it up here. I'm going to Lashburn on the way home. Yeah. I don't know if today it's the same, but I'm like, yeah.

Yeah. 30 cents, more than 30 cents cheaper. I was like, yep, that's where I'm going to be filling up. Yeah. So, I mean, the biggest thing that we, we want to do is advertising and amplifying our voice. That's the biggest thing that we need money for. So are you going to be doing like, you know, like I think of Mitch

Sylvester and David Parker, the two that come specifically to mine. But Chris Scott, you know, as I record this is coming to Lloyd. And I go, so are you going to be doing events? Like, are you planning to go out and try and get people together? You know, another two is. Angela, I think it's Tayback, sorry, Angela and Kathy Flet, they've been doing like the small gatherings in the house with the women's network. Like is your goal to have as many speaking opportunities, obviously, on different podcasts, that type of thing. So people are listening and run a show and you want to get on that?

Or is it to get more in front of people? I think probably it's more to amplify our voice. So there's a lot of good people doing events. I kind of look at it and say, we don't need to divide that space any more than it is. If there are people who need convincing, you know, I do say to people, if you've got a person that you need me to sit down with and they're undecided or they're a no and they really want to have an honest conversation, I'm there. I really appreciate what Mitch Sylvester has been doing. I really appreciate Chris. I appreciate all of these guys because their hearts are as big as all outdoors and they're here for Albertans.

So I don't want to divide. I don't want to break apart the movement or distract from other people. Our big thing is we want to spread a message to those who are undecided and who are knows and say, hey, it doesn't have to be all that scary. It's just cutting off Ottawa. So any way we can do that, we will. Right now we're starting with videos with connecting with people. You should start a Forever Canada tour.

I should. And then you'd have them all come. It'd be great. Well, part of the reason, it's funny, someone gave us flack for our logo. And part of the reason that we have our logo the way we do is we want people to stop and think, wait, we are the real Canada. This is not about hating Canada. This is about saying, hold on, the values and the principles of Canada are in Alberta,

and independence is actually about preserving those things. Most people you talk to say they can remember a time when Canada was okay. They're not better than okay. Yeah. I traveled Europe with a Canadian flag on. Actually, when I was in Finland night, I had the Canadian flag as well. And I remember being very proud of that. Yeah.

People from all walks of life in those different countries I traveled would approach you because of that flag. Exactly. And so we don't want to say, oh, it's always been bad, burn it down. We just say, wow, we got off track. Let's bring it back. And that's the entire thing we're wanting to do in any way possible. Things like this are really important to amplify the voice, but then also we're putting out videos. We're putting out articles.

We're just trying to help people to think. and yeah, some people might be mad about it. I had somebody the other day who was very angry at us because they thought that we were somehow dividing the movement. And I say, I mean, you can if you want, be angry. You know, it's cool. But that's not the intent. You know, the funny thing?

The movement's already divided. I don't know why we got a point you're dividing them. Folks, the movement's divided. You got a bunch of independent. Yep. Think they know the way people. They're all pulling roughly the same direction, in my opinion. which is a referendum in October.

Here, here. Some people think past that. Some people think we just, you know, at a point I'm like, I can't see past signatures. I'm being honest. If you don't get that, there's no point in worrying about a referendum. Right. And what I find with talking to so many, you know, I don't want to say I'm talking to a thousand people a day, but I talk to a lot of people. Yeah.

It's divided. We're divided. Why is that? Well, it's because it's not because of, for the most part, it's not because of hate. It's because people are independent, stubborn. They have their ideas. They feel strongly about their ideas. And they're trying to pull the best way they know how in that direction.

Yeah. That is a form of unity. And the reality is it's because we're not the type of people that we're trying to separate from. They want uniformity. They want to silence anybody who's different. They demand that you all be one blob and that you think exactly what they think. And you say exactly what they say or you'll be. canceled. So of course, people who want independence for Alberta aren't going to be like that.

It doesn't even make sense. It would be insane. If on the one hand, we're saying we want to be free from centralization and authoritarianism. And on the other hand, we're saying, now everybody better do exactly what I say. That's insane. So it's good to see Albertans being Albertans. And I think we need more of that. And the more people that stand up and say, yes, and let's go this way. The more a conversation starts and the more we have the good old Alberta that we all love coming back to its own and being shown for what it is and why we should love it. Yeah, the, I don't know, they tell us we're supposed to celebrate our differences, right? Yeah, that's right. But the way they do it, those words, I don't like. But when you put it in, you know, like how diverse of a group you have that want

Alberta independence, there's a lot to celebrate there. There is a lot of cool people, independent minded all the things doing lots of cool things have good ideas i love good ideas right like a good idea is uh you know uh don't know i always pull back to pop culture we've been doing it here off and on the entire show but in inception you know a good idea is like a mind virus right well it does it in a very negative way in that show right um but overall like those ideas can propel us forward and there's a ton of albertans doing that that's right And of course there will be because they're Albertans. And thank God for that.

Thank God that we're the kind of province that when people see things are wrong, they get up and they do something about it. If we ever have a day where we're mad about that, we need to give our heads a shake and give ourselves a little bit of a slap and remember who we are. Any final thoughts before I let you out of here? I just appreciate you. And I appreciate every single person in the movement. I really do believe this is Alberta at its best.

and I want every Albertan to know that they do matter. Every Albertan matters. I don't care what you believe, what you think, where you stand, you matter, your voice matters, make your voice known. You know what, Thomas Lukazek is doing great work because he's showing a certain point of view. I think he's helping us a lot, actually. Well, actually, the more I think about it, if you're Daniel Smith, who is a very clever individual, you've now had, well, we don't know the official number, you know, of

of the current petition. But regardless, between that petition and his petition, you got 700,000, 800,000, whatever the number comes out. Albertans who have signed something saying, although completely opposites, that this is an issue. That's right. We want to have this talk. If you're an elected official, she could go,

well, it looks like Albertans have spoken, both sides of the table, and that's okay. Yep. And that's what we, I have confidence. That's what will happen. I'm so thankful, again, to live in Alberta where we're allowed to speak. That was one funny thing out there in Ontario. People would say to me, you can't say that.

And my standard answer was, I'm an Albertan. I can say what I please. When someone says you can't say that, right, left, up, down, whoever you are, you have the right as an Albertan to say, I'm an Albertan. I'll say what I please. Well, and the more independent you become, the more you say what's on your mind at all times, that sometimes gets you in a little sticky situations. other times, it frees everyone else to speak their mind as well.

Actually, every time you do it, it frees up more people to speak their mind. Because we've lived in a society for a long time. I go back to COVID because for a long time, I was scared of my own shadow of saying too much, right? Like, I got to buy my peas and cues, got to be careful here, got this, that, and everything. And I'm just, and how many Albertans, how many Canadians were and still are, right? They're worried about saying too much. And, and Ebby coming out and calling us, you know, traders and stuff like that, how many people are worried about their jobs? Well, I actually just interviewed Kathy talking about a woman who can't say her full name or they don't say her full name because she's worried about losing her job over it.

It's like, well, how many more Albertans are feeling the same way right now? That's right. Even if it's 1%, that's 1% of the population. That's right. That doesn't feel comfortable saying their thoughts. And I think that's changed. I think it's rapidly changed since COVID. Yeah.

People, you know what? I'm tired of not talking my mind. Yeah. It's, that's a form of, well, it's self-censorship, right? Yeah. And when we have, give people the permission, you speak your mind, and I'm not going to be mad at you. Like I say, I love Serbs because you can argue with them and be friends. And it's something I think that we should have here, the ability to argue, to differ, to disagree, and yet go, disagreement doesn't mean you're not my friend.

Well, Eastern Europeans are lovely. for that, aren't they? So good. It's so fun. Yeah, like they, they speak the, I'm thinking to you, George, wherever you're at. I don't mean this in a negative way, so don't take it a negative way, but when you first run into an Eastern European and they just tell you what they're thinking, that has not been the Canadian way in my life. Normally you kind of dress it up and you and you try and make the other person feel good. Right. And I think that was a mistake. It sure was. And it's not the way that we're supposed to be. And it's healthy to be honest and to give people the permission to be honest.

Not just, I'm going to tell you what I think, and you better agree. But I'm going to tell you what I think. What do you think? And then listen and actually see the person and see the value, you know, not to go back to the Bible again, but the Bible says, think of others as better than yourselves. And if we all do that. When does it say that? Philippians 2.

Think of others as better than yourself. And that's how it's talking about try and be of one mind. But the way that you do that is not by forcing others to think what you think, but helping to understand what they think. Yeah, well, I think of how many people in society have so much to offer if you just listen. Yep. It's amazing. Appreciate you hopping in and doing this. I appreciate you making the drive.

Thanks for having me. And coming in studio. And, uh, well, I don't know. You seem like, uh, as I sit here, a pretty sane voice in, uh, you know, in a crazy world. No, I'll say that. At times, the world is pretty chaotic. And, no, you seem like you have a pretty decent message, Matthew, if I'm being honest. I appreciate that.

My students gave me a little fridge magnet that said, I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute. But it's nice to know I'm pretending to be sane anyway. Thanks again. Have a good one.