Shaun Newman Podcast - #1060 - Frances Widdowson

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Frances Widdowson is a Canadian political scientist and former associate professor at Mount Royal University who was fired in 2021 (a termination later ruled disproportionate by an arbitrator) after years of public criticism of Indigenous policy, the “Aboriginal industry,” and what she calls the “Grave Error” narrative surrounding the 2021 Kamloops unmarked-graves announcement. Co-author of the books Disrobing the Aboriginal Industry and Grave Error, she argues that many claims about residential-school mass graves lack forensic evidence and have been exaggerated for political and financial gain. A vocal defender of academic freedom and free speech, Widdowson has faced significant backlash, protests, arrests for trespassing at universities, and accusations of “residential school denialism” for questioning aspects of the residential school system’s legacy.Watch the Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Expat MoneyExpatmoney.com/SNPGet your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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Today's guest is a Canadian political scientist and former associate professor at Mount Royal University. She's also co-author of the book disrobing the Aboriginal industry and grave error. I'm talking about Francis Whittleson. So buckle up. Here we go.

Welcome to the Sean Numa podcast. Today I'm joined by Francis Wittleson. Francis, thanks for hopping on. Thanks for having me on. I was just saying, yeah, like it doesn't feel like that long ago. I talked to you about, forgive me, you're arrested that time off of one of the campuses. And I was like, okay. And then since then you've been arrested at Lethbridge.

But, I mean, I think maybe we've hit peak insanity with this whole CBC, but I guess you walk me through it. Walk me through the story because I was watching your video and Jennifer Shepard talking about it. And I was trying to keep up with her. Or Lindsay Shepard, not Jennifer Shepard. And I was trying to keep up with everything. But I'm like, maybe you can just walk me through what has gone on. Yeah.

So it's quite a complex story with a whole bunch of different actors. my own situation. So maybe I should just start with that because I kind of started it all because I was heard about this docu-series from a company called Forge Media. They said they wanted to fly me to Vancouver to talk about historical revisionism, the importance of having an objective view of history and the problems of speaking freely on university campuses. So both of those issues were very, very important to me. And I think they might have said something about Aboriginal land claims and sovereignty matters too, which I was interested in. So I didn't have very much interaction with them. I got up pretty lightly. I had one phone call,

and then we just mainly talked about travel. And so I flew to Vancouver. I was taken, I stayed overnight in a hotel. I was taken by a guy by the name of Cameron McLeod in a car to an undisclosed location. It turned out to be Franklin Studios. And I met two people, one guy referred to himself as Mike Smith. The other person was Amy Mercer. She was a Brit. And this is kind of an interesting thing that hasn't been sorted out yet. So she was a Brit. I don't know who he was. But they were all excessively nice and smarmy. It was very strange. And so I was saying that's a bit odd. There's a bunch of other things. I was told that there's going to be a Johnny McDonald actor who's going to be dressed up as Johnny McDonald because they wanted to have a theatrical side of

this interview about the difficulties of playing Johnny McDonald. I was brought into the studio, sat down. There was a woman whose name was Becky, who was interviewing, going to be interviewing me. And she looked very strange. She had a blonde wig on and she was very made up and seemed to be kind of ditsy in her way she was carrying herself. So I thought that's an odd interviewer for like an academic docu series. And this went on for at least a half an hour. It might have been an hour of me talking about matters of importance to me. and two Aboriginal men came into the studio

and dumped a bag of shoes like unloaded them onto the coffee table in front of me. And I initially thought it was them sabotaging the interview. I thought they had just broken in and they were now doing something. And then Becky, who turned out to be Dakota Ray A. Bear, that's the name of this so-called comedian from Susqueh Saskatchewan, she was staring at me with intense hatred. And then these two Aboriginal guys were glaring at me. And I was kind of taken aback. I was a bit shocked. I could feel my heart

kind of pounding my chest. But I've been in these kinds of situations for quite a while now. So I was able to get myself under control. And I just started to talk to them saying, why are you doing this? And what do you mean when you put these shoes on the table? Are you making a comparison to the Holocaust? What's going on? And they just kept on glaring at me. And then I sort of said, okay, what is this all about?

And I really wanted to film this. And I didn't have my, my phone was in my computer bag in the other room. And I didn't want to leave this studio because I wanted to capture it. So I said, I have my medications in my bag. Can someone bring me my bag so I can take my medications? And so they brought me my bag. And when they brought me my bag, I whipped out my smart phone and I started live streaming and interrogating this guy who called himself Mike Smith.

And I said, this appears to be a setup where people are going to paint me as a racist, I guess, and post that on social media. And Mike Smith said, yeah, you figured. it out. That's what this is about. So I'm going, okay. And I just kind of interviewed him for a while. And then they turned off the lights in this. I was going to hang in there as long as I could. We went out. I kept on live streaming. And I was just amazed. And then I got a ride back. I think the guy who's the driver's in on it, but I'm not sure. And then I got to the airport. and I was like, whoa, this is incredible.

What just happened? I did a live stream in the bar and the airport. And I was having a martini and I was just totally wired. I was just unbelievable. I said, I've never, ever seen this before, anything like this. This is crazy. And I called it CBC reality. Oh, no, I didn't know what CBC at the time.

I said, reality TV setup on the title. And Lindsay, unbeknownst to me, Lindsay Shepard, had been going through a similar kind of weird thing herself. And she saw this and she contacted me. I think it was the next date and said, the same thing happened to me, whatever. And at that point, my live stream kind of cut out and I thought I maybe lost the video. But fortunately, my videographer in Manitoba, Daniel Page, was able to retrieve that video. because if I hadn't been able to retrieve that video, it would be quite a bit of a different story

because I don't think we'd have been able to do the intel. Anyway, Lindsay did all this incredible research with reverse AI face recognition. So she figured out a number of the different players. And then a couple of days after that, I got a contact from a RCMP veteran and said five cops had also been set up by this same outfit in Vancouver.

And so I was able to talk to him. And then I had found out a whole new bunch of crazy stuff. And then Jeremy Amernick, who wrote a book called Sleepwoking, he heard about this through one of his colleagues. And he thought nothing had had. He didn't even know he'd been set up. He thought it was just like a weird interview. And then he got in contact with me.

So that's kind of the background of all the people. And then another RCMP veteran heard about this and got in contact with me. So I've had interviews with two RCMP veterans, Lindsay, of course, and Jerry Amernick. I think those are the ones that I know about. Oh, Tanya Gaw as well was set up. I talked to her. She just had an interview via Z. No, maybe they came to her house as well.

Anyway, that she's another person. Tanigas Action for Canada, correct? Pardon me? Action for Canada? Is that Tanigana? That's correct. Yeah. She was interviewed at her home, I think.

Yeah. So it just, the plot thickens essentially. Yes. The big question, the biggest question, still outstanding, is whether, I should probably talk a little bit about the people behind it. So I didn't know the CBC was involved at all of this point because I'd been contacted by this company called Forge Media that I had looked up and they had done some documentaries. It was a fake website. It turned out with all their, you know, I don't know how they do this, but they show some things they've done.

And to be honest, I wasn't, I was like, hey, I get a free trip to Vancouver and I get paid an honorarium and no one pays me for interviews. So why wouldn't I want to go and talk about my interests for a documentary? I wasn't suspicious at all about it. And so the CBC was not something I knew about. Anyway, when the cop talked to me, the RCMP veteran, and his name is Clinton Jaws on YouTube. And he's quite a going concern. I'd seen a video of his about something previously,

but he wasn't on my radar. Anyway, he said the CB, he went to the CBC studios in Vancouver. It was like a big CBC. And the same people were involved. And then Jerry and Lindsay told me that they had been told that they were going to be going, that they were going to be going to the CBC studios first. But then it got changed to Franklin Studios. So CBC was involved in that as well.

Anyway, so the CBC. And then as well for Clinton and the other RCMP veteran, the BBC was stated in the email that was interacting. with them. So I don't know if that was just like made up. Amy Mercer is a Brit. She works in production in the UK. She was one of the Smarmy people who met me at the studio. So it's possible the BBC as well as the CBC and APTN. The production company, the Aboriginal production company out of Saskatoon is called NLT1 Productions. And that's with Ryan Mockison gets crazy boy and Dakota Ray A Bear. Those are the three main players in that.

But there's a bunch of other ones too. So it's just this huge kind of mushrooming all sorts of different people doing all this stuff. Elaborate setups in the case of Lindsay. They've been working on her since January to keep creating fake toy companies. so that she thought she was being a consultant on designing a Johnny MacDonald doll. They went to her house and got her social insurance number and everything and pretended that she was an employee. Clinton had people come to his house. I think Tanya Gala and there's a woman, the second RCMP veteran,

who's anonymous because she doesn't want her name to be known. Hers was the worst story of all of the stories. That was just unbelievable what happened to her because the Veterans Association, the RCMP Veterans Association got roped into it and sent out an email to the veterans, asking if anyone who wanted to be involved in this joint BBC, CBC program called Beyond the Call, sorry, after the call about retirement. So when you retired, what's your life like after you retire? And she thought this would be a great thing because she's started a new life doing her.

She's a musician. And they got her to, and she was very excited because she thought she could communicate about how her music had helped her and her return. You know, all this stuff. They brought, they got her to send her RCMP red surge. jacket, dressed her up in that, got her to play her instrument to God Save the King. Lots of, they brought in fake, like, fake actors to play Prince William. Like, you wouldn't believe this would be happening. But this poor RCMP veteran who just gets, she has nothing to do with their, the main thing,

which seems to be the residential schools and the unmarked graves issue and Sir Jane, Sir Johnny McDonald. Those are the two issues that they're concerned about. She has nothing to do with that at all. Clint, he's a bit of a, you know, he does make some, you know, challenges of various land acknowledgements and stuff like this. And he's got a, he's got like a huge YouTube presence. So he's a public figure to some extent. But what's, why are they getting her to do this?

Anyway, they treated her in just an unbelievably abominable way. She's written, they put them on stage. They ridiculed them. They had these two Aboriginal guys, and I guess it's Ryan Mockison, saying, looking at the RCMP officers with disgust and saying, they're the ones who took our children away and those kind of things. And that the RCMP was, they had Prince Charles, sorry, King Charles on a screen saying that RCMP had done all these terrible things.

And now it was going to be dissolved. And the RCMP veterans are, what? Like, they thought they're going to be honored. They thought it was an honoring ceremony where Prince William and was going to be there. Now they're being told that the RCMP is being dissolved. They get Prince Williams brought in and it doesn't look like Prince William. He looks like he's stocky and stuff. And they're going, that doesn't look like Prince William.

And then he's going to come and shake hands with everyone to dissolve about sealing the deal about dissolving the RCMP. And at that point, Clint becomes really pissed off. And says, that's it. I'm not being involved. I'm not opposed to the RCMP. I'm a bit upset about the bosses, but I'm not, I don't want to dissolve. You know, the RCMP did great things in these communities.

And he took everything he had to get up and walk out because they put them in front of what was supposed to be a live studio audience with all the lights and everything, which they weren't expecting. Or he wasn't expecting it. And then they roped in another RCMP veteran to set him up. That's the other thing that they did some nefarious stuff. But within the RCMP veterans, we still haven't got to the bottom of that yet. Yeah.

It's crazy. The RCMP stuff, the RCMP veterans, that's the most bizarre. Lindsay was terrible because they strung her along for months on end, pretending she was a consultant. And, you know, I just had some travel arrangements discussions. And, you know, it's not. When you go back, you were talking about, and I'll probably get some of these names wrong. But Mike Smith, Amy Mercier, you said it was like overly nice.

It was strange. Yeah. What an odd sentence to hear, right? People are being nice to you. What a strange? When you say strange, what was strange about it? it was just excessive. And they were chatting.

Chat, chat, chat about everything. They were doing compliments, complimenting me on my scarf and my, you know, it was just, I'm not used. Yeah, it wasn't very professional. It was, it was smarmy. It had a smarmy kind of not very, kind of oddly forced kind of niceness, not just pleasant. kind of niceness, not just pleasant, but, you know, kind of, and I guess I don't know what, whether that's part of the whole quote unquote prank, like to have themselves look like that on camera, I don't know. It was, it was like kind of had this over-excitement as well.

Like, like kind of a reality TV show. He had a bit of a pimp. I said he had a pimp vibe. Was this like what I thought, this guy, Vamo. So. That's this guy. Mike Smith, his name is Igor Vamos. He is a member of the Yes Men, which is an American prankster company that social activism pranking, where they do things like change the voices in the Barbie and Kendall's to have them, you know, Dying this and Occupy Wall Street was part of their stuff. And yeah.

So when like forgive me if I am putting this I don't know the way my brain puts it. So you got a, the moment my brain puts it together. Sorry folks. I'm trying to spit out a thought here. You got a Brit. You got an American. You got the CBC, APTN, BBC, at least in an email, all to do an elaborate prank on Canadians who are talking about. something that is causing a lot of social and cultural angst. I don't even know if I'm saying that right, but like, you know, this is an issue that's been going on now for several years, maybe even longer than a several years. It probably goes back further than that.

Like, what are the implications all this? When you sit back and you keep finding a new layer, you're like, I mean, the fact Lindsay Shepard gave her Social Security number, I'm like, isn't that there has to be charges laid for this, isn't there? To create a fake company? I just read a national post journalist Andrew Zivo, I think his name is. He just had a post this, either this morning or yesterday, about the, well, about the criminality and so on. People have said to me, a criminal lawyer that I consulted with said, if you are taken under false pretenses to a location, it could be luring.

it could be a criminal act of luring because you've misrepresented yourself and and just looking back on it because I had no idea where I was going and to be honest I like I'm I was thinking well you know someone's taking care of my ride here I got tons of things on my mind already I'm gonna have the address of this locate but I didn't know no one told me okay you're going to X this is where we're going as far as I remember um so I arrived at this I'm kind of going through these Vancouver suburbs. I'm looking at the houses. I don't know where I am at all. It's kind of funny because I was talking to my friends afterwards and we were trying to, they're going, where did you go? And I'm going, oh, I don't know. I was in like a leafy suburb somewhere. And I guess I must have gone over

a bridge. But I wasn't paying attention. I was like, I was occupied with 10 other things in my mind. And they're going, that's crazy that you didn't know when, you know, you could have just disappeared. And I thought, yeah, I guess I could have. Like this is like. Yeah, but as a guy on this side, is you know I just had my my annual event in Calgary and I brought people in from all over the world and we took care of you know their flights and their hotels and they arrive and you know you get to shake hands and meet and you know do you fully understand what you're getting yourself into when you come from you know in the case of Neil Oliver from other side of the pond all the way here probably not and then you know you get a feel for the room and the people and you're like oh okay yeah this is pretty cool and then you know we finally meet in person and you know like all all that stuff kind of adds up to what I was trying to build. So I actually understand why, you know, and I guess I just went to Panama at the beginning of March to speak at a conference and, you know, I land in Panama. I don't know what the heck I'm doing.

And you get an Uber and across you go and you're kind of figuring it out as you go because you've never been. So I actually understand, you know, you fly into Vancouver. You're being taken to a set. You're like, oh, yeah, we've got an interview. It's a documentary or documentary on. what, you know, I want to talk about. Okay, fair enough.

So I actually understand why you're not paying attention to everything. It's just, it is strange beyond words at this point that this is where we're at in Canada. And then to, you know, you've got a fake website that has fake documentary. You think of the levels of what they've done. And that it, you know, if it was Canadians, it'd probably be bad enough. But now you have Canadians mixed in with Americans, mixed in with Brits. and it becomes a whole new level of strange, doesn't it? Yeah, I'm amazed.

I don't, I, I, I, I thought it was just me. So that was my first thought. Like when I was coming through the Vancouver airport, I'm going, wow, I must be this, I'm much more powerful than I thought that people would devote all those resources to getting me to come. And so that was my thoughts. And then when Lindsay contacted me, which was the next person I heard, And then Clint contacted me and then, you know, another person and so on and Tanya.

And we don't even know if that's the, I guess since it's so public now, everyone's hearing about it. But, you know, for a while there, I was thinking who else. So it seems to be, they were also saying pipelines were on the agenda. So they were going to be getting a bunch of people from pipeline companies to come and prank them was what they. what they heard, the police, the veterans heard that pipelines were the next ones to be on the block for whatever. Now, whether that was just, we don't have that confirmed. I don't have the BBC confirmed.

I don't have the pipeline thing confirmed. It's just hearsay. But everything else is confirmed. And this Saskatoon, I'm doing a deep dive as we speak into the Saskatoon company. NLT1 Productions, because it's got some connections to a guy by the name of Shant Joshi, who is, he's got a Faye Productions, a production company called Faye Productions, which has offices in New York and Los Angeles. So there's another one.

And then some other person who's got some connection to what's called Sphere Media. So there's an actual company called Sphere Media, which is connected. And the whole thing costs between $2.5 and $5 million. That's the budget for this thing. So there's big money involved. All from the CBC? We're not sure. We don't know where that money's coming from.

So that's the budget. Who's funding it? Like, that's what we want to find out. So we need an inquiry to get all the documents and stuff. Francis, sorry, how do you know the budget? It was on a government website. It was actually Shant Joshi. That's why I thought of it.

Shant Joshi had, he was on this government website, which is associated with telefilm Canada. So this telefilm entity had Shant Joshi on there with this Northern Tales. and the other title for it is counting coup episodes. Counting coup for people don't know what that is is Native American planes saying that you humiliate and intimidate your enemy so that doesn't attack you. That's what it's about. So, you know, humiliation was definitely in the, you know, that was on the agenda.

Anyway, so Shant Joshi had this on there. this government website that the budget was $2.5 to $5 million. I don't know if this is, you know, on the American side. The one that I recall being, you know, as I recall it, a serious documentary, although it was on the craziness of where we'd gotten to was, what is a woman? I think we all remember Matt Walsh, right? He went around and talked to people in Congress and all over the place. from like what is a woman and he you know and and watched how people on the hot seat couldn't define that

it kind of feels like it's a similar vein albeit when i sit here i'm like this is such a strange like do you think that's what they were trying to do like is something along the lines of that from a weird warped mind it reminds me a little bit more of mount walsh's um am i racist that that that one because there's a there's a the funniest scene i guess in the whole thing is when he's got this woman who writes white fragility or robin it's robin d'angelo she's got this book that's like make it's in all the academic kind of stuff and you get all these white people to hang their heads and say how racist they are and all this kind of stuff anyway they brought her in to And he paid like 15 grand or whatever for this, right?

So she charges a lot for everything. So they brought her in under the pretence that she was going to school them and wait fragility. And Matt Walsh starts talking about reparations in front of her and says, well, if you really care about that, why don't you give my cameraman this black guy, a hundred bucks? Like, let's start now. And she goes over to her purse and gets out 100 bucks and gives her the cameraman. hundred bucks and she was very you know she was set up completely set up there she was not expecting that that kind of thing that that's the kind of thing we're talking about but she is like and this is why i'm kind of i've been talking to a lot of people about this that this kind of pranking genre

you know when does it become unethical uh you know like they brought her to the i think it was to their place you they or maybe they went to her i don't know anyway she was she was was roped into something this thing and then they set her up and then they did this kind of what people who are critical of her work think is that thought that was fun like that I thought that was the funniest part of the movie but I'm sure the people who are on board with that did not think that was funny and she did not think that was fun so my own position because I'm such a powerful person now you know I didn't think I was a powerful person but I'm very powerful. And Lindsay is very powerful as well. We're both okay with them producing whatever

they want to produce with our footage. Like, go ahead. Let's see what you produce. Let's see if it's funny or not. Like what is what is funny? Like some people think that's funny. Some people don't. I want to see what they're going to do. I'm kind of, I don't know how it's going to be funny personally, but hey, maybe there's humor is a very strange thing. And some people find things humorous that other people don't. So I think it's a great thing. And I deserve to be pranked because I'm this very powerful person who has all this influence. And I'm kind of full of myself, as people have probably noticed. And so I should be taken down a couple of things. And this is a way to do it is to kind of try to humiliate me in front of all these things. But I got news for you people.

I cannot be humiliated because humiliation is your own reaction to it. And I think this is quite a bizarre thing that is pretending to be about truth and reconciliation when it doesn't seem to have very much of either that is going to be achieved through this. But what do I know? Maybe Aboriginal people watching me get humiliated or the intent is to humiliate me, maybe that's good. That's good for them to see that. They laugh and they have a great time watching that.

I don't know. the whole thing is very odd. But the police veterans and whoever else, everyone should have to agree that this is okay because what they did to this female RCMP veteran, she's had psychological problems because like she was totally, it was, she couldn't comprehend what was going on at all because she has nothing to do with any of this. When they dumped the shoes out in front of me, I knew right away what was what was happened. I think I could connect the dots.

But she was not able to connect the dots. She had Prince, you know, King Charles. And she had played for royalty before herself. So she was kind of going, wow, you know, this is a bit not really very well planned out for playing for royalty. But what do I know? Maybe this CBC. And then, you know, to have this told to her that this is all a prank. And she was just completely shocked.

And then she had her RCMP red surge uniform on and felt that she was obligated to act in a very formal and non-confrontational way because she had the uniform on and she was had to play the role of someone who was in that kind of setting. They got her and the two and they might have been plants because there's a guy and he's public so I can mention his name. His name is Paul McCarrow. He's a sculptor. He worked for the RCMP Homicide, evidently, for a number of years. He's a sculptor now in Vancouver, Shilwaukee. I believe he lives in Chilwaukee. He's public.

He put a post on Facebook about this, which I've read. And he was saying, I just had the greatest couple months with, what's it called, Nova Frame Production? So this is the company that's pretending to be a UK company. I met all these great people. We had a great time. I was doing this thing called After the Cold. That's on his Facebook page.

So is he in on it? What's going on here? Is he a setup or not? Probably. Like I don't see how anyone could be involved in such a prank, so-called prank, and think that was a really great thing. to be led in one area under false pretenses and then and he would have known it was a prank after the thing so why is he making public comments about what a great thing this was this after the call episode

yeah so that seems very suspicious and they used another guy who's very sheepish like he that's i don't want to mention his name because and and clint called him and talked to him and said i hear you set me It seems like you set me up because he that guy was present on both days. So they seem to have roped him in at the last minute. And he's going to have damage too. That's not good to know that you've been played and you've been used as a, as someone who is now going to be setting other people up because you're desperate and you need more money, which seems to be the case.

So this is really sinister a lot of the stuff that they're doing. And well, like we're already. talking lawsuits. CBC and BBC, maybe, and APTN and this NLT1, they're all going to be sued. So, yeah, it's a bit of a blood bath. There's going to be a lot of blood on the floor. But, you know, with me, it's like, hey, I got a free trip to Vancouver. I got a thousand bucks in cash.

I got a per diem, a thousand, a hundred, hundred bucks. And I got all this incredible, endless excitement for weeks on end, just content, never-ending content. I'm a documentary filmmaker myself now. So this would be the obvious documentary is to do this, this one. What the hell happened here? I'm just amazed. I've just been like dealing with this for 24-7 for the last two weeks. just watching all the craziness unfold.

I don't know. I'm like, you think, I probably say this too much. You're like, it can't get any stranger. And then here we said, 26, and it just, it goes to a whole new level, Francis. You know, like, am I, you know, you can, you can disagree with what you're talking about. Sure. Let's, let's do some investigating. Let's disagree with it.

Let's have some discussion on that. But the CBC, like, I just, I mean, how do they recover? I mean, it's taxpayer funded. And they're, it just, it's strange to me. I just, I just think it's strange sitting on this side. It is. I did an interview with, I've done two interviews of the CBC. I've recorded, screen recorded, both of them and posted the entirety of the,

those interviews on my YouTube channel. The second one with Mark Gollum, I just decided I'm going to just talk about what I think needs to be done here, which is the CBC has been failing for years. And so there's two sides of this, as I explained. There's the news side and then there's the entertainment side. The news side is that the CBC has been failing as a news organization for at least a decade and probably longer. I noticed it myself, you know, with the Megan Murphy episodes, because what they would do is that they would talk about Megan Murphy, it was taking on trans activism, and not have her on. They would just talk about her from the sidelines. She's the subject, but they wouldn't interview her. That would have been unheard of 15 years ago.

because that's sort of the basic kind of principle of journalistic objectivity is that you've got to hear from the target of your story. You can't just not interview them, but they obviously thought she was so beyond the pale that they'd be giving her a platform. So those kinds of decisions are terrible that they made, and they've been terrible in my own case, and this is what I told Mark Gollum, on the Camloops 215 claim. they are one of the major fomentors of the Canloops 215 claim. And the news story that Mark Gallum produced after I talked to him, he didn't know I was going to post that interview at the time I waited until he did the story. It was a terrible story that he did on it. And who does he interview Sean Carlton,

who is one of the worst bad actors out there and kind of gives him the last word about how the views of Lindsay Shepherd and me are very strange. Now, he should have given me a point of reply to that, but he did not. And the whole story is not very, anyway, this is a major scandal for CBC. As I told him, the CBC's got to cover it like it would any other scandal, which is an in-depth analysis of this stuff. It really needs a public inquiry to get all the documents now that we have all these other things that are available. That's what the CBC News side should be doing, is covering it properly, doing, and start covering the Camloops 215 claim properly, which it hasn't done. It still has not done.

And in fact, it had a fifth of state program in January 2022 where Jillian Finley did an abominable job as an investigative journalist, just listening to all these crazy stories of the quote unquote knowledge keepers, which were obviously. highly dubious and probably misremembering. And she just nodded her head and gave credibility to all these things. And this was in January 2022, this is after we knew that no remains had been confirmed. And it was, you know, the story is highly improbable. So the CBC's got to start covering, if they want to save themselves, get rid all your hacks that are running the show. these managerialists talking about their quote-unquote brand, rehire some of those really excellent journalists.

Like, how about Wendy Mesley? Let's get her back in there. Someone who was shamed and humiliated by the CBC for just referring to a book title. She was very professional. She should be exonerated and brought back into her rightful place. All the other journalists who are probably just, you know, going what is going on have a public inquiry about it mark miller that odious minister in charge of

cbc he should be put on the hot seat let's have some humiliation rituals for him i'd be i'd be in on that um you know so they've got a they've got a clean house and they've got to they've got to investigate why they're such a unbelievably corroded news organization that doesn't cover things proper that's become ideologically captured by all these hacks that are in charge of it. So that's what they got to do if they want any credibility. And I'm a supporter of CBC. So I'm not in favor of defunding the CBC. I think the CBC has done great stuff.

Historically, the fifth of state used to be a great stuff to get a good thing. After everything you've been through. Yeah. Still a supporter of the CBC. I am. I want the CBC. It's like the universities. I'm a supporter of universities.

I just think the universities are just, have lost their way. And they've got to get the people in charge who actually value journalism, academics, all these things, which is not what's happening. It's been taken over by equity, diversity, and inclusion types. That's what they're using it for. They're using it for their own ideological project. So the CVC is going to take this very seriously. And it's not yet. Like the Mark Gallum piece that he wrote, that's not going to do it.

And that was terrible to give Sean Carlton the last word about how Lindsay Shepard of my views are so odd. What's odd about our views? I think there should be evidence for the Canloops case before we start having all these. We're coming up on the fifth anniversary on May 27th. we're going to have an event at the legislature, BC legislature, to talk about it. I've invited all the activists. I've invited all the politicians.

Okay, CBC, let's see, see you cover this properly. You've waited five years to do it. So now's the time. Forgive me because with the lady who remains anonymous. That, that, I don't know the full story there, but to me, everything you've said seems strange. The one that I'm like, if you're the CBC, how do you defend this? Is the 82 year old Brian Porter. Yep.

Right? Like the elementary school teacher, amateur history buff. Like, like, you sit there and you go, like, this is, this is strange. And if you're the CBC, I don't know how you, well, I don't know, maybe I'll ask you, How do you, you mentioned start doing real journalism. But it's like, how do you change the trajectory of where you're heading when, you know, like with Francis or with you, I'm like, I'm sure they can spin it in a way that a lot of Canadians be like, oh, yeah, Francis deserve what she's getting. Brian Porter. Like you read the story.

You're like, I don't know how any Canadian can go. That makes sense. well the woke people would think it makes sense because and and these these aboriginal neo-tribal elites Ryan Mocasson Dakota Ray A Bear and Gets Crazy Boy those are the three comedy trio like that's the trio the hatred so when I was sitting there and I've done this a few times if I've got an average original person or whomever who's staring at me, like glaring at me, I just stare right back at them. And I just, I'll hold my, I'll hold the gaze as long as I have to until they look away. Because I, I don't know why they're, they've got such hatred that they are displaying.

But Dakota Ray A. Bear, when she was looking at me, the hatred was palpable. And they hate people who they think are their enemy, which maybe we are because we're trying to expose the neo-tribal elites who are raking all this money off the system for, you know, stupid things. Like, you know, if you watch Dakota Ray A. Bear's quote-unquote comedy, it's lame. It's unbelievably lame. Now, maybe Aboriginal people find her comedy funny. I don't, I don't, like, that's an interesting question. Do Aboriginal people find things funny that non-Aboriginal people don't? Maybe so. That might be, that's an interesting question. I have no idea. I don't know what Aboriginal people find funny or whether they find the same things funny. Anyway, the hatred was palpable in this situation.

So we've had 50 years of the Aboriginal industry telling Aboriginal people that their enemy is the quote unquote white man who stole their land and did all these horrible things to them. The residential schools were these, this genocidal thing where all sorts of priests murdered, hundreds of children and so on. So that's why this situation exists, because we are not being honest about what's going on. We need three things, desperately. Honesty, transparency, accountability.

We need that. And we don't have it. And CBC, let's start with you. Well, let's start with universities. So we haven't got into the University of Lafbridge craziness. But University of Lafreyfrey, that's in Alberta. We think, because I was doing with BC all the time, right? Like, this is all BC.

So it's like, BC is crazy. BC is a woke hellscape. BC, BC, BC, which is true. And I'm from BC. So I was hoping to go back there at some point because I grew up there and I have a lot of affection for lots of things to do with it. But it is just an impossible thing now with the kind of wokeness, which is totalitarian identity politics is what that is. Alberta, we have the University of Lafbridge, which is the worst university of all the universities. There's nothing worse than the University of Lafbridge because not only did they, for the university of Lafbridge, because not only did, for

are the three-time violator of freedom of speech policy. Last two, I was February 4th. Tony Hall invited me, Professor Emeritus. I'm just there talking, doing an academic exercise. University of Lethbridge sends out an email to all students and faculty saying a controversial figures on campus with disrespectful and upsetting views. all these deranged students go on the hunt for me, shut me down, abuse me, assault me, assault Tony,

assault Tony's wife, assault my husband. I invite my husband there. That's how much I thought it was going to, you know, go under the radar. No one's going to care about this. We are all just treated unbelievably by all these deranged students. What did the University of Lesbridge do? Leroy Little Bear, the administrator, said, students did a fantastic job in neutralizing me. Those were his exact words. And then I went,

I said, well, you're going to start doing this. I'm going back in there. And I'm going to do the most innocuous thing I possibly can, which is to have coffee with a student and just talk to them about my street epistemology methods and so on. Anyway, so I'm there in the cafeteria talking to a remember the public, Edward, and they come in and they tell me that I have a trespass order because I caused such a disruption last time I was there that they've got to remove me for safety. So they handcuffed me and put me in the back of a paddy wagon. I have talked to the Minister of Advanced Education, Miles McDougal. I had a half an hour discussion with him.

And I said, what you've got to do, you must have an event, including me, Tony Hall, and Aaron Pete, who is the chief of the Hope Band, who is working at trying to have these conversations desperately, who's a great guy. He listens. You can tell when he's talking to you, he listens. And I told the Minister of Advanced Education, that's what's going to happen at the very minimum. And he goes away and we still haven't heard anything about that. And he's not going to do, probably not going to do anything about it. That is completely unacceptable. Why is the government of Alberta not forcing the University of Lathbridge to have an academic sensibility about the question of whether or not Canada is a genocidal country?

That is a question that we need to discuss openly and honestly in Canada. And that is not happening because the universities are so terribly corroded and taken over and captured by this equity, diversity, inclusion. And if we can't do it in Alberta, it's over. It really is over. And we can do it so easily. They just say, we're gonna reduce your funding, University of Lathbridge, unless you do this.

They can do that as the government. They have the capacity to do it. Just pull the funding until they, and they'll change. Like they will change on a dime if that's done. The same with the CBC, we will yank your, funding, CBC, unless you clean house and you, first of all, let's start with a panel discussion on the Canloops 215 claim. Let's get Sean Carlton in there and Nigon Sinclair and all these other people

that they've been platforming for years and get them up against myself and maybe Michelle Sterling or Tom Flanagan or someone who's well-versed in the actual criticism of the residential schools being genocidal. You see that happening? It's easy. It's easy, but it takes some political courage. Would that be the right way of putting it? Exactly. Let's start. Let's go. We're ready. We're ready to go. And they can do it.

But they're they're they're waiting. I don't know what they're waiting for. The whole system is wreaking havoc. And we're finding that out in British Columbia. You know, British Columbia is ahead of everyone else on this, and they are in an absolutely terrible state. So we can pull it back. We've got to stop as well. The other danger is the racism. Unbelievable racism that is percolating underneath the surface of this.

And it's not ordinary Aboriginal people who are responsible for this. There are many Aboriginal people who are suffering terribly who need to have their situation addressed. But these neo-tribal elites, like in these media companies, tenuous kind of relationship to Aboriginal communities. And then you have poor people like Daniel Sparkling Eyes. He's a great guy. Aboriginal guy. He tried to go into the communities and sort out the corruption in the communities. He couldn't work there because he's not corrupt and he's trying to solve their problems and they don't want that.

Like they want to continue with their tribal kind of circulation things where they reward their friends and relatives with all the money that's being put in there. You know, so we have some great Aboriginal people trying their best to do stuff. We have some poor, marginalized Aboriginal people are suffering from, I heard in British Columbia, an RCMP officer told me 70% fetal alcohol syndrome rates in some Aboriginal communities. terrible violence, women who are sexually abused, the rates of sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities, almost everyone is being sexually abused, like if there's a woman. Terrible housing, terrible water, all these things. And yet we got all these neo-tribal elites that we're paying attention to, who are just siphoning off money for themselves and doing these crazy humiliation rituals.

Francis, when you say neo-tribal elites, can you break that down for me? Yes. So this is the Aboriginal politics is tribal, which it means you reward your friends and relatives. That's the nature of it. It's not a bug in the system. It's a feature of Aboriginal politics. But Aboriginal tribalism is not the same as it was before contact. It's been massively transformed by what would be called renterism.

All the money that goes in. So in my separate but unequal, I refer to it as neo-tribal renterism, which includes the neotribal elites, which are the people at the top of what would be called a neotribe, which is an Aboriginal group that's been transformed by this renterism. And then, of course, we have the main players in all of this who are the Aboriginal industry, which is the lawyers and the consultants who have been making a killing

off of all these legal disputes that have been going on for the last 50 years. So that's kind of the whole nature of it. But the neo-tribal elites are the people at the head of these neotribes. And they can be quite large, like Stuart Philip and Terry T.G. and British Columbia and British-Chi and they're at the head of the Union of British Columbia, Indian chiefs and the British Columbia Assembly of First Nations. That's like a very large neotribal kind of entity. But you have smaller ones like, you know, the outside. Aboriginal bans in the various kind of communities.

Every single one of those leaders benefits from the transfers that are being diverted into those communities because of the whole legal nature of these disputes. And then when you say racism bubbling under the surface. Yeah. The racism is both on the Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal side. So Aboriginal people have a lot of, not all of them, but a certain, quite a significant segment of hatred, profound hatred for non-Aboriginal people. And also other Aboriginal tribes, like they don't get along with each other very well either. So there's always this competition going on. But really most of it is, you know, the kind of the thing that's been told to them for throughout their entire lives, which is the white man stole your land.

And they're always trying to screw you. And there's quite conspiratorial thinking about like the whole Camloops 215. Like let's think about this claim here that a bunch of teachers, three Aboriginal teachers at Camloops, a bunch of religious orders who are there to educate Aboriginal people and so on, they murdered 200 plus children and buried them clandestinely in the apple orchard. Well, think about burying that number. First of all, even one child being killed is a bit of a horrible thing. But now we got 200 plus.

Like, Canloops in residential schools across the river from Canloops, you're going to have lanterns and everything of people digging things in the middle of that. That's not going to be able to happen without someone noticing it. Anyway, Aboriginal people just completely bought into this kind of conspiracy that they're, because the white man, this is what the white man does. You know, they murder Aboriginal kids and they do this. And Queen Elizabeth comes and abducts 10 children from the count. And then they disappear and all these kind of crazy things because no one is saying,

hey, wait a minute here. This is not plausible what you're talking about. Everyone foments this because they think. they're doing somehow doing Aboriginal people a favor by reaffirming their beliefs. But, you know, is it really doing Aboriginal people a favor to think that 200 of their children were murdered and they're traumatized by it, we hear and all these kinds of things? So this is really a mess that needs honesty, transparency, accountability, and then we can get to work changing the legal system, which is a huge problem.

too because we have a George Orwell situation of some animals being more equal than others, which we should not have in a liberal democratic system. We should all be equal under the law. No one should be more equal than anyone else. But some crafty lawyers got us to have Section 35 in the Constitution. And that's got to be removed. That's Aboriginal treaty rights. That means that Aboriginal people have the same rights as everyone else, but they actually have more rights. They have Aboriginal and treaty rights, which other people don't have.

And that's causing all sorts of problems within the system. Francis, is there anything else you want to make sure the audience knows? I'm like, I actually, at this point, what a terrible spot to be in a host. I'm sure there's people screaming. You've got to ask this, get out. I'm like, I'm trying to wrap my head around.

Yeah, yeah. Still what has gone on. Yep. The floor is yours. Any final thoughts. for the audience. Yes. So we must have truth about Camloops.

As George Orwell, again, I'm a follower of George Orwell. And people, George Orwell was a socialist. For people don't know that. He said famously, oh, there's a couple of quotes, I think, are very important. One is that two plus two. Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. Once that is granted, all else follows. So it's stating facts.

So we've got to be able to state facts and facts about camloops are of the utmost importance. And that is coming. A reckoning is coming on May 27th at the BC legislature. I'm hoping to make some major headway there. And then finally, George Orwell said just before he died, a final warning for mankind, which was, you know, we are heading into a totalitarian period.

and it's like a boot stamping on a human face forever. And he said, and what can we do about this nightmarish situation that is before us? And he said that the answer is very simple, really. Don't let it happen. It depends on you. Francis, thanks for hopping on and doing this. Thanks for having me on.