Shaun Newman Podcast - #1063 - Leighton Grey

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Leighton Grey is a senior partner at Grey Wowk Spencer LLP and a constitutional lawyer, with over 30 years of experience conducting hundreds of trials. A Status Indian from Alberta, he holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy, was appointed King’s Counsel in 2010, and was named one of Canada’s Top 50 Lawyers in 2024. He has collaborated with the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms on high-profile cases defending civil liberties and challenging government overreach. Grey also hosts the Grey Matter podcast, where he offers principled commentary on law, culture, faith, and current events from a Christian perspective.Watch the Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Expat Moneyexpatmoney.com/worldwar3Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crowe and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday. How's everybody doing today? All right, let's start with a little silver price, shall we? The old silver wagon, a bucko three, 50. So $103.50 cents.

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Of course, they do concrete folks. They did the concrete in the new studio. Shout out to Caleb Taves and his crew. They are fantastic. We do the community spotlight. Now I started counting it down. I'm going to keep saying it 38 days today until we leave on the road trip that's going to see us go across North America, Central America. and then we're going to take some flights

and go to different parts of the world. It's going to be interesting. But for you, fine folks, listen to the podcast, okay? I want you to nominate someone from your community. I feel like if I go across small town, Saskatchewan, there has to be somebody who sticks out. You're like, man alive. You should be interviewing X.

Okay? Could be, you know, like, it could be somebody who used to play in the NHL. could be somebody who's been married for 60 years. Could be a farmer who's been farming in the same plot of land for 60 years. Could be a guy who's done, I don't know, woodworking, take your pick. You know who the interesting cats are from your community. And, well, shoot me a text. Nominate somebody.

We got 38 days until we get on the road. And I want to hit some spots that normally I wouldn't even think of. Or, you know, I've obviously got names that have been on the podcast that I'm going to sit down with. I'm hoping I can tap into this. wonderful community and you can expose me to another wonderful community if you would. All right. Now, if you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, Facebook, substack, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review.

Make sure to share with a friend. Happy Thursday, folks. Let's get on that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a constitutional lawyer with over 30 years of experience. He's also a senior partner at Gray Walk Spencer, LLP. I'm talking about Leighton Gray. So buckle up. Here we go.

Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Layton Gray. Layton, I was just on your show. Now I'm, you know, we got talking before and afterwards. I thought, well, I'm just bringing you right back. So, Layton, thanks for hopping on. Oh, it's always my pleasure to chat with you. Now, before we get into all the politics going on in the world, I just said, I'm like, Colorado out of the NHL playoffs.

If you were writing that up, I know the long history of presidential trophy winners, but I mean, the first two rounds, Colorado, were world beaters. They look good. And Vegas kind of squeaks by Utah. Then, you know, dismantles Anaheim. They walk in, you're thinking, yeah, but now you got Colorado and then four straight. Yeah.

Yeah, it's an interesting thing. And, you know, you played hockey, so you know, you'll understand what I'm talking about. But it's important to think of the playoffs as a tournament. It really is a tournament. So you throw away the regular season, really. It's a tournament. And the thing that you have to do in a tournament play is you have to get better all the time. You have to gradually get better.

It doesn't mean you have to win every game, but through the course of that, you have to get better. And sometimes what happens with really good teams, and this seems to happen a lot with President's trophy winning teams. I can't remember the last President's trophy winning team. Maybe Detroit in 2008, I have to go back and look at that. But I can remember, because I'm old enough, to remember this, back in 1990s. In 2009, Pittsburgh Penguins, Mary Lehmue, Pittsburgh Penguins, had the smoke and hottest team. They won two cups in a row. Mary would come back from cancer, storm back, won the scoring championship.

And they set the NHL record that the order was almost equal to a couple of years ago. They won 16 games in a row to end the regular season. They were hot. They were unbeatable. And then the playoffs came and they peaked too early. And I think what you're seeing with a team like Vegas is a very experienced team, very well, well constructed. Their team is like Lego. You know, they didn't build it through the draft.

They just picked, pick and chose great players from other teams. And they brought in Tortorella. It seems to be kind of a magical mix. But it's a great lesson that in order to win in the playoffs, you've got to peak at the right time. And more recently, I can think of the Oilers in 2024.

Remember when they had that incredible run and they won all those games? They peaked early in the season. And they didn't really peak in the playoffs. They ran out of gas. In both of their cup runs, I thought that they really ran out of gas, especially 24. I thought they were a better team than Florida in 24, even though they got down 3-0 and came back. I thought last year, Florida was a little better than them and really deserved to win. But it's just a lesson, and you've got a peek at the right time.

And that's what we're seeing with Colorado. It's just a really tough lesson. They had a great season, but they're not going to get the big trophy. The last president trophy winning team of the regular season to win the cup was the Chicago Blackhawks in 2013. Wow. So that's the last team. And then that's going back a long way. You'll have to, somebody can check this.

It says the only team to do it more than once is the Detroit Red Wings. That's why they would stick out in your mind. They did in 2002 and 08. Yeah, in 08, yeah. I didn't realize Chicago I finished first in 2013. I remember they played Boston in the final that year. I thought Boston had been in first, but I'm corrected by history.

Well, I mean, it's just, you know, to win the president's trophy is, you know, like tip of the cap to you. But as we know in playoffs, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Nothing that matters. And the NHL is the only sport I know. Yeah, I'm quite certain of this, where if you're the 16th team to get in,

you just sneak in, you can still win the cup. I don't know of any other sport that's even remotely close to the NHL when it comes to parity. Yeah. And it should give oil fans hope because, I mean, where was Vegas last year, right? And look at them. You know, where was Montreal last year?

Look how well they're doing. I mean, I think that it should give the oiler fans hope that, hey, maybe we can retool over the summer and get our top players all rested and come back and maybe next year's the year. That's the oiler shanty. Next year's the year. I just wish they wouldn't have done the knee jerk reaction on firing knob block.

I felt like that was like just just let it fizzle out. If we've learned anything in the media cycle, in a week's time, it'd all be gone. Let McDavid and Drysettle go off to some beach and just decompress. They've played more hockey than anyone in the last couple of years. Just let them go deep decompressed. Don't cause a bunch of upheaval. What did they do?

They caused upheaval. And I'm not saying the Oblock shouldn't have went. Maybe you should. I'm not the guy making the choice. It just seemed like you've been to the cup final with this guy, two years in a row. You get ousted in the first round. You're all banged up. He just come out and say, listen, we had a bunch of injuries.

We weren't a healthy team. We got beat by a better younger squad this year. And we're going to take a couple weeks off. And we're going to come back and we're going to evaluate. And all media went, yeah, that makes sense. all the fans and went yeah that makes sense instead they like I just I don't get it I don't get it

Layton I think I think what happened with the Oilers is it reminds me of an old quote Mike Keenan once said this about Brett Hall trying to get trying to coach Brett Hall was like trying to teach table manners to a shark

and what he was really saying is that sometimes it's very hard to coach star players you play you know what this is like you know sometimes when you have a Gretzky, maybe the best thing to do is just open the gate, right? But it sounded in some of the media bits, it sounded like that players,

the top players on the Oilers, especially McDavid and Dryssel, had lost some confidence in the coaching. Now, they always, they were diplomatic and they included themselves, we've got to be better. But let's face it, when Connor McDavid started praising

the coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning after the Oilers got beat by them, That was kind of the writing on the wall. You know, when your star player, the best player in the world is saying, wow, at Tampa Bay Lightning, they're just such a well-coached team. That was maybe a signal at the end for Mr. Knoblock, fairty or unfairly. They can be signals, but the timing of the knoblock and everything going on,

Vegas saying, no, you can't talk to Cassidy, right? All that. It seems like an emotional reaction. Yes, I agree. Conner and Drysett are going to have to say, Okay, fair enough. But as the leader of the team, you're sitting there and you go, we just don't make emotional decisions. We're not, we're not, we're not, cowtowing.

You're talking about the GM there, aren't you? Right, I am. You're saying the GM is leader of the team. A lot of people don't realize that, that the GM has a very vital role. It's overlooked. The GMs are the ones who build the teams. They hire the coaches. They make all the draft picks.

They make all the trades. People think of leadership on the ice, but really, it has to have to have strong leadership in the organization, don't you, to have success on the ice? Yes, you do. You need to, for my entire lifetime, and forgive me, maybe Kevin Lowe, maybe, maybe there's somebody in there for a couple of years that you can point to. I was probably too young. Yeah.

Not that too young. I was in high school when they were traded for pronger and everything. But, you know, in my adult years, at least, the only GM they brought in where I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'm so excited. and I had arguments with my brothers and everybody knows the brothers round table. We get, we get into it about everything. Yeah. It was Holland and I was defending home because Holland's approach, you know, has he made mistakes?

Any GMs made mistakes. But his approach is methodical. He was a great hockey man. He's built great teams. You know, he built the team that went to the finals twice. Yes, he did. That was, you know, that was his mind. And then as soon as they let him go, then they don't sign back Hallaway, bro,

they go out, they get Skinner who you go now in hindsight. Maybe at the time there was a little more in Arbitzen, right? All these maybe, right, we lose Fogel. Could we have ever got Fogel back? Probably not. But you go down the road. Now look at, we've shipped away Skinner for Jari, but has that panned out. It's like these didn't happen under Holland.

Holland was methodical. He pushed all of our young guys into the A, made them percolate, didn't give him an easy, here's a seat on the table because you're the next greatest thing. They had to earn it. Broberg didn't like that from my eyes. He's like, I want to play. And by the time he made the Stanley Cup finals,

he was ready and they should have signed him and said you're going to be the next guy alongside Bouchard and Nurse. And we'd be laughing. I don't know. To me, leadership. And what about ownership, though? Are you giving Mr. Kate's a free passer?

Because ownership has a say in this too, don't they? Well, I'm sure they do. I don't know. Do you think Cates is to blame? Well, let's face it. I saw some Forbes poll that said that the orders were I think were the third most valuable sports franchise in North America or something to that effect. This team's making a lot of money. Sure. But in the time that he's had the team, they've never won. They've never won anything. You know, I can think of, for example, going back, you mentioned the Detroit Red Wings. You know, Mr. Illich was a big part of that. The Detroit Red Wings before Mike Illich were called the dead things. They were awful.

But he was the one who came in and changed the culture of the team. He said, we're going to win. We're going to have a championship team here in Detroit. And they end up having three of them. And they were perennially a strong team. I think they went almost 30 years without missing the playoffs. So if you want to see the influence of ownership, you know, know, those of us who are old enough to remember someone like Harold Ballard or Peter

Paxton, you can see, you know, Peter Paxton, he was a big part of the Oilers dynasties in the 80s because he, and I talked with Grant Fierre about this, who's a friend of mine, and, you know, he wasn't universally loved by the Oilers, but he was very engaged with the team and he was all about winning. And I think that, that is a trickle-down effect to the whole organization, wouldn't you think? You raise a good point. I know people tuned in this going, I did not expect this conversation, but me and Layton have this conversation back and forth off air all the time about hockey, both hockey guys. How high up do you go in an organization to find where the puck stops, right? Or metaphor or maybe just metaphor.

And that's an interesting point. You raise an interesting point. Whose decision is it when you've got everything going smoothly for the Oilers? They've made the Stanley Cup finals. And then you pull. Now we're not bringing back. the GM who built who did everything right yeah and and when it comes to this year no block we can go well here's a sign and there's a sign and everywhere's a sign it's like sure you have a coach that's

led you to the Stanley Cup finals two years in a row and the third year any fan could see they were banged up beyond belief right and so they get ousted in the first round against a very good anaheim i think anyone oh yeah paid attention to anaheim because you yeah when are you turn in tuning into anaheim when they play the way yeah right Right? Like, nobody's, they were very good. And I thought they, I thought they were going to do better against Vegas, I'm being honest. Yeah. And so you see this similar theme starting to play out.

And you go, is that the GM's fault? Or is it the person above the GM and how far up do you go above the GM? And then maybe you just go Kate's. Let's look at the Vegas Golden Knights. Okay. They're, they're a pretty new team. They went to the finals very early on and lost. but then they've been a perennially strong team.

They've had their ups and downs. They won the Stanley Cup. That owner may be the most committed owner to winning in the NHL. He, you know, when a player like Mitch Marner is available, he goes out and gets him. When a player like Jack Eichel is available, he goes out and he gets him. Carter Hart. And they've had, they've had, Sean, the same GM that they hired, the day that they got their franchise, George McPhee is still their GM.

So through all the ups and downs, George McPhee is the mainstay. So there's an example. If you want to understand why Vegas keeps coming back like a bad penny and showing up to lead in the NHL playoffs, there's an example. You have that continuity in the organization. I think that makes a big difference.

I think when you look at the Oilers, you know, all this revolving door of coaches and GMs, you know, it's got to have an impact on the players. And the overall stability of, the organization, even to the point where how the players feel about being a part of that team. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Well, this is an interesting, I'll try and transition to the reason why I invited you on, right? Because, you know, when I was on your show, we were talking that evening, Daniel had her address, public address, right? Yeah, yeah. And what was interesting was both sides of media exploded. right the mainstream lost their mind because there's an independence referendum yeah but the other side the independent media lost her mind because it's not a actual binding referendum and what are we talking about and this is getting us nowhere and and everybody's losing their mind yeah and this is why i come

you know i draw the comparison maybe to it's a it's a it's a theme of leadership isn't it right it is yeah and one of the things i admire about daniel and i know you know i get i get harassed about this aren't you too pro daniel i'm like what the heck are you talking about i i'm just calling balls and strikes really well it's funny i get on stage with daniel and and then people go oh you're too hard on her or you're too easy on i'm like what are you talking about one of the things i're both it's all context right well i one of the things i admire about her is she's a calm in the sea of insanity and you see it when everything's going on like today yeah you've got jason kenny back out talking and i just every time he talks, I just see so much gaslighting, right?

Oh, yeah. We put on the lightest of restrictions in COVID. Oh. Leighton, I got some choice. I could write a book on that. I'm not going to say. And then he said, what was the next thing? Antivax conspiracy theories and that all these people, now there's no COVID.

So they've moved on to something new and it's independence. It's like, well, there is a part of that that is partially true. Yeah. There are people who were against COVID that are, four independents. And he has an extra grind with them because they fired him. Correct. You got Wob Canoe on stage with Danielle going after.

But here's the thing to people, and I'm curious your thoughts, to people that I'm sitting there and I'm watching it. I'm like, was this surprise anyone? Yeah. They believe if it passes in October, October 19th, the referendum of a referendum. them if that is a positive result. And the positive result for the independent side would be 50 plus one. Don't care what Carney says.

He also got him coming out with 50. On their end, it needs to be below 50%. Yeah. Well, everybody knows they're going to have a full court press. I was listening back to a Ben Trudeau, Danny Hozac, Grant Abraham conversation from a year ago. We were talking about it then. The closer gets, the more the press is going to come. And it's going to come from everyone because,

they don't want on Alberta to leave. Your thoughts late? Well, I think I'm going to go back a little bit into Canadian constitutional history to help people understand maybe the 10,000th of view of maybe what Daniel Smith is thinking about. So Canada, as you know, is a very large country. We're huge. We're the second largest country in the world. And everywhere you go in Canada, the people are great and it's beautiful. But it's different. There's differences in language, in culture, and cuisine, and there are things that bind us together. Hockey's one of them. But the people who framed Canada were very wise and in the way that they structured our Constitution is they gave the provinces actually equal power with the federal government.

And the reason why is the most important government, the most influential government, is the one that's closest to your door. And so the framers of the Constitution wanted to make sure that, local government could meet the needs of the local people because the problems that Alberta is facing are a lot of ways very different than what they are in say Newfoundland or New Brunswick or none of it. And so what we had over the course of our history is I think what we've seen is when the country has been very disunified. That is when the provinces had a lot of room to move around, the country worked pretty well. And the last time we experienced this in Alberta was really during the Ralph Klein era. Jean-Cretchen was a guy who was very focused. He was actually a pretty good prime minister.

I had an excellent finance minister, Mr. Martin, who became our prime minister. And he basically left Alberta alone. And things went along pretty well. But we go through these periods of history. The federal government has this tendency to try and become a national government. They try to overpower the provinces and what we're seeing right now. This happened during Pierre Trudeau's time and people who are old enough will know about all that history, the National Energy Program, but it's happening right now. We have this concentration of power, especially in the Prime Minister's office, where people like Trudeau and Carney actually want to be a dictator.

They want to make the provinces completely irrelevant and they're doing it through money. They're taking away provincial powers by essentially buying them. them. One example is healthcare. Health care is provincial. That's why we had different health restrictions every place during COVID. But what's happening is Alberta just accepted billions of dollars in health transfers from Ottawa because where Ottawa does is they tax the heck out of Alberta. They take all this money and then we have to go hat and hand to them for money for things, you know, that are provincial concerns. So coming back to Daniel Smith, she, realizes the history of our country we've gone through these periods we've sort of

expanded and contracted and she foresees a time coming when the the current moment of history where the federal government is is in a period of overreach and trying to take over everything that that's going to pass and she's working to essentially renovate or enforce the the terms of our Constitution which is Alberta is sovereign within Alberta. And that's what she's fighting for. And so I give her credit for that. And I understand what she's doing.

The other thing I give her a lot of credit for, Sean, is that she recognizes all the problems with Canada that those of us who support independence are talking about. She recognizes all the problems. She agrees with us. Where her view is different, and I think you have to respect this, is she thinks there's a path forward within Canada to restore the sovereignty of Alberta

to what it's supposed to be under the Constitution. So when she says she's a loyal Canadian, she's a federalist, that concept of federalism that she's talking about is actually what's in our constitution. And that is where the federal government would stay in its lane but wouldn't interfere in all the things that Alberta wants to do in our economy and our health care and all these other things. So that's why, to sum it up,

I agree with you on Danielle. I think she deserves a lot of credit for what she's doing. Of course, she can't please everyone, but it's a very interesting situation in that she's getting attacked on all sides. And I'm not sure that that's something that she expected. What do you think? I think she expected it. Yeah.

I personally think she expected it. Because any time she walks into any of the rooms where it is, independent minded folk and brings up she is for a sovereign Alberta and a united Canada. Does she get booed? Yeah. So she knows. She knows as soon as she comes out and says exactly what she did that both sides are going to lose their mind. Yeah.

And I don't have like that's why you know when she, you remember when she came out when she was first elected and said, um, uh, uh, uh, that, did she say, what did she say, the unvaccinated? Unvaccinated were the most discriminated against people in recent Canadian history. The only- Which was true, which was true, but she was vilified for it. Yeah. And my only regret, I don't have many regrets in life.

One of my regrets back then was that I didn't come out and applaud her for it. Yeah. And like, wow, look at what a premier just did in our province. She's the only politician, apart from someone like Maxim Bernier, you know, the only politician in power who's ever seen. Right. So we had a moment in time where we had the current prime minister, premier apologies. Right. Premier prime minister, six of one, a half dozen the other.

Yeah. Acknowledge what me sitting here went through. And we should have gone to bat for her. Amen. But what happens. is any time she steps just remotely across the line, we lose our crap. And we go right to the throat. We throw a knife to the throat and we say,

where are we like I'm watching her and I'm going, I don't envy her position. She knew coming out the way she did. Both sides were going to come at her. And so I sit here and I go, I'm not going to make that mistake again. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to sit here and go, listen, am I going to go after Daniel Smith? Daniel knows I am. I told her that on stage at the Coruscum forum. I'm just trying to be Daniels, a different version, obviously, of when Danielle was on the radio. She didn't let the leaders off.

She gave them an opportunity to say their piece, but then pushed them on that. Chris Sims has been very instrumental in reminding me that when you get a politician on record, that's important. And so anytime you're sitting down with the premier, you have to push. But where I sit right now, is what did Albertans want?

They wanted Mitch Sylvester's question on the petition. But if you pushed those same Albertans, Leighton, would I be right in saying they were split on that question as well? Right. Yeah. So the, yeah, yeah, I hear you. The thing that I don't fault, Danielle, for urging Albertans to want to stay in Canada. The thing that bothers me is when she says things like, things are better for Alberta now because of Mark Carney, because Mark Carney is the prime minister.

That I don't buy. That to me is a sales job. But, you know, let's talk about the liberals, because this is really interesting. And I want to get your take on this. I think the liberal party right now is a House of Cards. I think they are, I think that party is falling apart. And you know, it's the old thing about, you know, there's no honor among thieves. I think the internal engine of that party is so corrupted by greed, by grafting people, by backstabbing people. And the one thing about Justin Trudeau, I think, is that there was something about him. You could call it charisma or the ability to talk in public. never mind when he talks about little girl skirts but you know he there was something about him that was kind of a glue that that held all those people together and i think it was because he had this magical ability to win elections he won three elections in six years um carne has none of that let's face it he's a dour kind of pathetic little man and uh he doesn't speak very well he mumbles he stutters he's you know a lot of times you can't understand what he's saying he's the

dismissive of the media. And there's a revolt going on inside that party right now. Fourteen liberal MPs privately sent a letter to him expressing concern about his leadership, especially on this environmental policy. And this is where my point here is this intersects with what's going on in Alberta. Alberta is the point of the spear. But what's happening in that liberal party, in my respectful view, is this. They are just coming around to the reality. that all the environmental crap that they have inflicted on Canada for the last 10, 15 years is bogus. And it's disastrous economically. And so they're faced with a really serious problem because, let's face it, Sean, if they say that publicly, they could lose power.

Right. They're holding on by a threat here. Those five MPs, if 14 of them leave, it's over. And we probably get a national election. And they would get all of their windows, broken from the rocks thrown at them by Pierre Polyvier and company. So they've got a soft shoe this. And Carney's trying to do this. He's telling his MPs, listen, we got to forget about all this environmental stuff. We got to actually have to get back to producing and selling energy because that's what makes Canada's economy go. So they've got a very tough problem. And I'm not certain that Carney and the liberals are going to survive it because they have all these people that we have a real interesting mixture inside that caucus now. They've got all the climate zealots.

like Jabot, who I understand is quitting. They've got climate Barbie coming out of the woodwork. And in the meantime, he's brought in five people recently who aren't liberals. They're actually conservatives. And I think they're probably having conversations with people inside the liberal caucus going, are you really buying this? Isn't Carney kind of crazy? Wouldn't it be better if we did some of the things that Danielle Smith is talking about?

So we're in a very, it's a very pivotal moment in Canadian history and in politics right now. And Alberta independence is sort of at the center of the hurricane, but that hurricane is much broader. And if people are wondering why so much of the rest of the country is interested, like Wob Canoe, is interested in what's going on in Alberta. It's because it's impacting absolutely everything economically that's going on in the country. So the sales job, I just want to start with that, Danielle, it is a sales job. She's in politics. She has to try and work with the federal government.

I mean, that's part of her job. That's part of her job. If you want to have truly what Quebec has, you have to vote in people who want to separate Alberta from Canada. Yeah. Daniel has never, ever, ever, I've never heard her say that. so you can try and be upset with her but that's what daniel got elected on and i know she's once again there's lots of things that she said in her uh lead up to election but if you've listened to any politician ever in a period where they're trying to get elected they'll promise

you the moon to get in there okay so the sales drop yeah it is a sales drop now the host cards i find this interestingly because we don't we folks focus so much on what we're doing wrong here. Yeah. We don't take a look at the bigger picture. And you're not wrong with the liberals. Can you imagine being in there for 10 years? Climate is catastrophe's coming.

Everything bomp, a bomb, a bomb. Yeah. Ideology rammed down your throat. In comes Garnie. And now he's got a problem. Alberta wants to go. And the only way we're going to keep Alberta kind of just simmering and not boiling over is we've got to find a way to push through some things.

But in the meantime, we're giving veto power, whatever they're calling it. First Nations everywhere. And you're going to take it. So now he's got fires coming in from everywhere that they built over the course. I don't think Justin Trudeau was a better speaker at all. I think they're equally as bad just in different ways. The difference is, is Justin Trudeau got to build this made up land and have only the conservatives push against it.

Now you have the made up land that Carney's walked into. And he's got, he's like, well, no, we actually got to build some pipelines because it's actually going to help. That's a deep insight. That's a deep insight, my friend. That's good. And I'll take it one step further. Listen to this.

So you remember, so Justin Trudeau, remember when Japan and Germany came along a few years ago and said they wanted to buy our natural gas, would have brought billions and billions of dollars into Canada. And what did Trudeau say? Oh, there's no business case. No business case. Well, here's Mark Carney speaking in BC yesterday. He says, the world is facing a global energy crisis, and Canada must expand resource development to help meet growing demand while strengthening its own economy.

He's saying the exact opposite. And he's saying that in British Columbia of all places. So there's something to be said for what Danielle's talking about when she says, things are better now with Carney than with Trudeau. And it may be, we should not underestimate her, maybe in these backroom conversations. maybe she's getting through to these guys. And maybe the Alberta independence movement is going to be, I don't want to overstate it, maybe it's going to be the salvation or the beginning of the solution to problems that are affecting the whole country.

And to the Alberta independence movement, don't stop. I don't mean that, oh, yeah, just, just like, you have to understand because of what those signatures represent, you're, you're tossing the entire country. into focusing on natural resources again. Yeah. That is specifically because of what's going on in Alberta. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But careful the battles you choose, right? Like, I mean, Daniel Smith goes out on the world stage and is a beacon of light. Everybody loves her. I can't find a single person who doesn't like her. Now you come closer to home and you go, she's putting a referendum of a referendum. It's funny, but regardless.

And what's happened? Full court press. She's going to have no friends in the media because she's allowing voices to be heard. They're going to say our voices aren't actually being heard, but they are. If you get 50, I don't know, Layton, if they get 51% on October 19th to say, we want to start the formal procedure to having a binding referendum on leaving Canada, that's giant news, is it not? It is. It is. And we have to, yeah.

Sorry, you look at Quebec in 80 and in 95. They never crossed the threshold of 50%. No. At least it didn't appear that way. Some people would dispute that. Well, I mean, even Ben Trudeau talks about the Brink trucks. I think it's seven days before the vote and talking about capital fleeing. Yeah. Like as we get closer to October 19th, you best all of us. best get our mindset that it's going to ramp up not down it's going to get crazier they're going to try and gaslight the crap out of everyone right they're going to try and make everybody look insane you know the the thing that came out today and then there's going to be other people here's Travis taves Trevor Tombe that group well I didn't call them a group but that just sorry a group

of people lead not leave this just I was just reading this morning uh late and I don't know if you've seen it pro-Balreda pro-pro Canada policy initiative Escape is not a solution. It's a cop out at best and a dangerous distraction at worst. A referendum on Alberta independence is not the path to a better future. It's time for Alberta to lead, not leave. Welcome to lead, not leave, a team of academics, policy work, wonks, political activists, journalists, forging a practical path forward for our fellow frustrated federalists, right? And that's got Jared Wesley, University of Alberta, Andrew Leach, University of Alberta, Jim Dining. former Alberta treasurer, Travis Taves, former Alberta Minister of Finance, Jen Gerson, the line, Ken Bossingool, and Meredith Bosson-Cole and Phillips, Trevor Tombe, University of Calgary, and Peggy, Garrity community member. Sorry. Yeah. The problem is that most of those people are socialists who love big government.

So they are anti, they're not only anti-independence, they're against all the things that independence represents specifically faith, family, and freedom and prosperity. Those, those people are involved. That's, that's their, you know, that's, that's the flag that they're waving. I guess I bring, sorry, I keep cutting you off. Sorry. Yeah. I'm, I guess I bring it up more as like to the everyday Albertan, this is just the beginning and we're seeing an assault on anything to do with Alberta, the referendum in general. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that is very true. And, you know, coming back to Danielle, I think that the reason why she has framed the referendum the way she has, the referendum question that we're going to get, is because she still thinks that

most Albertans agree with her that Alberta's place is within Canada. I think she believes that. And remember, she's everybody's premier. Even people who didn't vote. for her. She's their Premier too. She's not just the Independence Premier. She's not just the Premier of the people who were primarily responsible for getting her elected. She's everybody's Premier and because she's got that responsibility I think, you know, she's following through and she's approaching this from the point of view of, well, it's not clear that people really want to leave. And so we should be careful about this. But you know, the The one thing I'll say about Danielle too is that she's a realist, she's a smart lady.

And I think if we go down this road and it turns out to be a dead end, if the people who are criticizing Danielle are right and that this is not going to lead to some sort of reconfederation that is satisfactory to Alberta and Alberta's interests, if that's true, I think it's not only extremely likely. I think it's dead certain that at that point, Danielle Smith will be able to say, look, we exhausted all of our alternatives. We've used up all of our other options. Now we've got independence. And she hasn't ruled out independence. She's holding that in reserve, which is, I think, is brilliant. And so what I would say to people listening to this who are hardcore independent people, you know, sometimes we have to be patient.

Sometimes we have to allow things to move in the fullness of time. It may be that independence is going to happen, but it's not going to happen on the timeline that you want it, just because of some of the realities that are going on. But I don't think by any stretch that Danielle Smith has completely ruled out independence for Alberta. It's just that she's not convinced yet that that is the only and the correct path for Alberta.

I don't want to speak for her. She does that very well on her own. But that's my perception of what she's doing and what she's thinking. What do you think about that? Yeah. I mean, what do you know about Daniel Smith? This is, you know, I was trying, like after we talked, what was that, Thursday night late? Yeah.

Yeah. I, I was trying, I had written it out beforehand, but I was trying to like get my thoughts in order, if you would. And like, Daniel Smith is a known commodity. right like to me it just it just seems she's she's very strategic the words that come out of her mouth they try and write her off as you know at times of saying too much i remember when you know like she speaks too much and she's putting herself in hot water and different things that when you go listen to her she's been reiterating roughly the same thing over and over and over again the

mow you the trying to talk to at the first it was justin trudeau now it's mark carney she never ever goes oh mark carney's the greatest when she gets pushed on it she goes no, we agree on some things and we disagree on others. And isn't that what statesmanship is about? Is you're trying to navigate the political rough waters that are there at the best of times. And right now, you know, you're, it is, uh, I mean, Wob Canoe going after. I was just chuckling? I'm like, wasn't Wob Canoe, the guy's barking, uh, just like three days earlier?

I'm like it's, I don't have anything good to say about him. He's an example of the danger of DEI. So when you advance people to positions of high office based upon immutable characteristics, which is what happened with Webb Canoe, not based upon their competency, you get people like Wob Canoe. What I give the Premier a lot of credit for, you know, there's a great quote from the poet Ralph Waldo Emerson. He said, let me never fall into the vulgarity. of thinking that every time someone disagrees with me that I'm being attacked.

And I won't name names, but there are certain prominent people in the Alberta independence movement who are very reactive. And one thing that I really appreciate about Danielle, and I give her a lot of credit for, is she never does that. She never falls for that. You know, she really handled Wob Canoe very, very well. She was, I think Bruce Lee would be very proud, you know, Bruce Lee, the Tao of Jit Kondo, you know, the law of the intercepting fist. He sort of used all of his power against him and ended up, you know, flipping him on his back and pinning him.

And, you know, she's, she's very clever at that. And if people are watching closely, you have to be very careful about going after her because, you know, she has a way of defending herself. She's very capable of doing that in public. she's not a pushover. And I was very, I was very proud of the way she handled that attack from Mr. Canoe. As a man who's interviewed Danielle now a handful of times, I, it's probably, forgive me if Daniel ever listens this. I don't think of it as like a box, like a full on boxing match where I'm trying to knock her out. Yeah. But I do think of her as being able, no matter when you think you have her on the ropes, like, oh, I'm going to press her on, take your topic. Yeah. She reminds me of

like Muhammad Ali. Yeah, she's a boxer. She's not a slugger. Yeah. She's not Mike Tyson. Right. And you're like, yeah, man. Yeah.

And so Danielle is very, very, very skilled at that. Oh, yeah. So, you know, when I circle all the way back to this, this independence, this referendum, you know, it's one of the things I hope for the audience that listens is like, we best strengthen her mind late. Because we're into the first week of it being announced. Everybody in their dog has commented on it. The other side gets to comment on it.

And they're going to. They're going to put resources. They're going to find different ways. You know, I just bring up the latest with lead, not leave. More is like, this is something new that comes. There's others too. There's the Alberta Transition Council, whatever that is. I think that's the Keith Wilson, Jeff Rath,

Evachipia, you know, Mitz-Sovester group. But, you know, so there's, yeah, there's going to be a bunch of them. They're going to be a bunch. Yeah. And I look at this one, the reason why it stands out to me is Travis Taves was once almost the leader of the UCP. Yes. And in that case, Alberta.

Not so long ago. And you go, that was a close race. Yeah. That means he's speaking for part of Alberta that doesn't want to leave. I mean, heck, even their name, lead not leave is a catchy little name. Yeah. Right. And so you go, your best becomes strong in the next little bit.

There's some heavy hitters in that camp, by the way. Yes, there is. Former Prime Minister Harper, you know, someone like, you know, Preston Manning, and some very, very rich people, like someone like Michael Binning, for example, is an Alberta billionaire. He's on that side. And so they have a lot of money behind that, you know, that movement. and that's something that is very difficult to overcome in politics.

Oftentimes, the side that has the most money can spend the most money will be able to win the day. This actually happened in 2020 with Donald Trump. And so apart from all the other stuff that happened, or at least that we think happened. But you know, you're right, we have to be very vigilant about this. about this and we have to be very scrutinizing we have to exercise the Christian virtue of discernment and be very careful and I ask questions like okay who is this talking why is he saying this who is he connected with what's this person's history what does you have to gain by saying this you know do I agree with

them why would I agree with them is he right about some things but wrong about others you know that's something that Unfortunately, because Canadians have become so propagandized, especially in the aftermath of COVID, that I find that we don't question these things enough, which is why it's very important to have private media like the Sean Newman podcast, right? Because, you know, you shine a light on a different perspective that obviously people are not getting on CBC, CTV or global. I don't have all the answers late and I certainly don't think well I don't know but you ask good questions sure I actually you know I was I was thinking of what it the other day I'm like you know if you brought up just take 10 conspiracy theories whatever you want yeah I don't know maybe I don't know I'm like

what do I actually know for certain I'm like oh Christ is the way I'm like I could actually put my money on that one like I would sell I put the farm on that one And other than that, all the rest of it, I'm like, I don't know. Like, I mean, we land on the moon, folks. I don't know. Did we? There's a, sure. Like, we, I can get tied up and stuff like that.

Yeah. So when I look at the political realm, right? Like, I just, like, you go on X today. Holy Macanaugh. Yeah. It is just trying to suck you in emotionally every step. All the buttons are being pushed. Oh, yeah.

Everyone. And in fairness, folks, I reached out to lead, not leave. I reached out to Ryan Jesperson. I reached out to, because I'm like, you know what, we better start having more of these conversations because they're going to go in their camp, we're going to go in our camp,

and right now, if you think 300,000 signatures is enough, I just look at, I keep going back to Quebec. There's so much to learn from what they did. 1980, they only got a little over 40% of the population. That's not a small number.

Yeah. But it's not enough. Yeah. Right? Almost 60% said they wanted to stay. Yeah. So you have to take what they did, Leighton, and try and learn from it if you want to try and convince Albertans there's a better way or a different way or a way of to push against Canada and open up the constitution and get this thing figured out. Are my wrong in that?

No, I think you're absolutely right when you say that we have to keep having. these conversations. And the scary thing is not to sort of turn this little bit, but in the meanwhile, Mr. Carney and his government are still passing all these laws that want to prevent us from having these conversations. You know, it isn't outlandish to say, Sean, that public support for Alberta dependence is hate speech. You know, our prime minister is, Mr. Carney has basically said that the Alberta petition is undemocratic. And that's a very short walk from saying that it's treasonous. And if something is treasonous, isn't that something that would attract, you know,

criminal sanction? It could. So absolutely, we have to keep having these conversations. And it's interesting that our government, our federal government, is trying to prevent us from doing just that. They don't want us talking to each other about these things. And that's why we have to keep talking. My hope, my hope, the eternal optimism in me is like, I don't mean good in the sense of I want it to go there.

I just mean if that's the lever they pull, because they're going to pull multiple levers here by the time we, you know, whether or not we get to a successful referendum or we don't. Yeah. Over the next 20 years, they're going to continue to pull levers on us. This is what governments do, especially tyrannical ones who, you know, have their ideology set on the way the world works. And so you go, if they all sudden deemed this hate speech and they came and arrested a whole bunch of people, like the message will still get out. And I think it'll open new, new ears, new eyes to seeing it. I mean, that's a dark place. I never want to go. Yeah. But I just think,

you know, like, no matter what they do, Leighton, They can't exterminate hope. In my humble opinion, I just don't think that's possible. Yeah, I agree. I would like to see, frankly, better leadership, conservative leadership at the federal level. I don't like what Mr. Polivier is doing. You know, he sort of stood on the fence in terms of independence until,

and then now that there's a referendum, now he says he's going to actively campaign to keep Alberta in Canada. I wonder what people in his writing think about that, down in Tofield, for example. You know, I'm not sure they agree with that. And, you know, meanwhile, it looks like... Do you actually... Question for you. Yeah. On Pierre.

Do you actually think he believes that? Oh. I think I don't know. I would guess, I would guess yes. And the reason why I say that is because he is... I would say he's a student of Prime Minister Harper. And Mr. Harper was an excellent Prime Minister in some ways. He might have been the best financial manager

in the Prime Minister's office that our country has ever had. But he wasn't a great Prime Minister in other ways. He was, Mr. Harper is a globalist. And he was actually the, largely responsible for concentration of power in the prime minister's office he during his tenure he weakened provincial powers uh because he he'd like to have that that control of what was going on in the country and i think mr polyvere is of as of the same ilk i think his vision is he wants all the power that carne has uh but he's just going to use it differently but you know the problem is as lord acton

famously wrote power crops and absolute power crops absolutely and what we have in our country the real big problem when you drill all the way down is the prime minister has almost absolute power in this country he's appointing all the judges he's appointing all the senators he appoints all the diplomats he appoints a governor general lieutenant governors he makes he flies all over the world on our dime. He signs agreements with China. He gets us into all kinds of crazy environmental schemes that Canadians don't support. And that's a huge problem in our country. And I think Alberta independence is really fighting against that. I see the independence movement as a way to conserve the free and democratic society that Canada is, at least in our corner of it.

And that's really what we're up against. And the reason why I criticize Mr. Polvier is that I don't think he wants to change that part of it. I think he wants to be just as powerful as Mark Carney is. He just wants to use that power differently. And I don't have faith or trust that he would use it in a way that is beneficial to Canadians. It might be less painful for us than what we're going through right now. But I don't think on balance it would be a lot more beneficial to Canadians to, to continue to have this all-powerful dictator in Ottawa.

You know, it's ironic because, you know, the prime minister isn't even mentioned in the Constitution. He's an afterthought. And yet he's become the most powerful person in the country. And that's a big, big problem. You know, when I come back to Pierre, I go, motivation, I don't think you can, I can disagree with anything he said.

Motivation, he wants to be the prime minister. Yeah. That's what he's worked the last hour of money. any cost at any cost right at any cost i would i would agree with that so if he comes out saying uh albertans should have a you know like just give him their democratic right yeah he loses a vast majority of can't that way and you can almost put a a nail in his coffin as the conservative leader because they will attack him as you're not even trying to hold your own country together i can just you know you can almost write the own head the headlines so he has to so motivationally

Completely agree. Yeah. I wonder about lots of people because obviously he can't say he even would consider it to anyone. Maybe his wife. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things I am blessed with, and I assume latent you have something similar, but you can share your own story is, you know, they talk about you being the sum of the five people you surround yourself with, right? So if you surround yourself with.

yourself with, I don't know, drug addicts or what have you, gamblers, alcoholics, chances are you're going to slide towards their way of thinking. Whereas if you surround yourself with people who, you know, don't abuse alcohol, gambling, build businesses, have strong families, you get the point. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so when you're in politics at the highest level, I'm kind of curious who are surrounding them because some of those he would appoint and try and get, you know, to insulate them. Others, I'm like, I mean, what do you have surrounding yourself that you're around day in, day out, and you're trying to get to the ultimate goal of being the most powerful person in Canada? I'd be very curious what Pierre actually thinks. He'll never say it.

I can't imagine him ever uttering a phrase. But that'd be Daniel Smith too. Yeah. I don't see her ever changing unless 75% of Albertans go, we want out. Yeah. We're done with this. Yeah. Well, then she'll be a politician and a politician will do the will of the people.

Oh, yeah. You give me a parade, they're going to get in front of it. Well, what can you do as a politician who's not in power? Just ask Pierre Polygier. He's living it. And I think that, you know, the reality. is you have to win. You know, that is, that is, politics is a net some game.

You have to win. Because if you don't, when you, you know, you can't do anything. I think there's a, this may shock people. I think there's a very realistic chance that Pierre, Paul,ier, could become our prime minister. And it's because of what I said earlier about the liberal party. The liberal party is falling apart from within. And if they crumble from within and some of their,

some of their MPs defect, for example, to the NDP or back to the conservatives. This is a whole different ballgame. But what concerns me about the CPC is, do I really want Melissa Lansman as our deputy prime minister? Really? I don't know. Or this other, the Sikh gentleman,

who's his other right-hand person, who's got all kinds of problems. Apparently he can't even go back and visit his own country because of immigration complications that he was involved in. And the people who are populating that party right now have been out of government for so long that they are completely an experience. They really don't have anybody in their party anymore, apart from Polivier and a couple of others who were actually in government. And that's a pretty long time ago. That's going back 11 years now.

And what's scary is it looks like they're trying to rehabilitate Jason Kenney. So I wouldn't be surprised if he found his way back into the conservative party. Remember, he was a high-ranking minister, and he actually was a pretty good minister during the Harper administration. I have to say in my lifetime, Jason Kenney, and it almost hurts me to have to say this, he was one of the best immigration ministers we ever had in my lifetime. He was, of course, this is by reference because, you know, everything that's happened since then has been pretty, pretty terrible for Canada. But I could foresee, because of what's happening with the liberals, that a world in which Pierre Polivir becomes prime minister. And then what does Canada look like then? Then we've got our premier who's very much aligned with Mr. Polvier.

I expect that they probably talk a lot. They must because their ideas on independence are perfectly aligned. That might be a really good situation, not only for Alberta, but also the entire country. What do you think? I wonder what the average Canadian should do. Because, you know, like, when I was listening to Kenny talk to CBC, and he was talking about, you know, they started off, you know,

the lightest restrictions and I'll reiterate. anti-vaq conspiracy theories, all these things, and they got me out. Right. I was very much for that. I assume, well, I know a lot of Albertans that were very much for that. They looked at the political process. Was there more to it? Well, certainly you can listen to David Parker, and there was a whole group of them

that knew the strategic process of what was going on. Out went Jason Kenny. Yeah. I was very much for Daniel Smith getting elected. I, out of all the people I interviewed from the UCP leadership of race, she just seemed the most intelligent, well-balanced, well-thought-out candidate. And to this day, I think she's, for the most part, honored that. The problem with an intelligent, well-balanced person is it doesn't go your way all the time. Right.

Is there not hard your way? They're well-balanced. That's what she is. She can speak to most situations at all time. And so then after she gets in, you can see that everybody was waiting for Pulliev to get in. I mean, it's just simple math. He was leading the race. And no matter what you said at that time, Pierre's going to get in.

Now you have a conservative prime minister with a very conservative western side of the, I should even bring in Scott Mall, right? And everybody was like, some good things can get done. Yeah, yeah. Then elbows up, then Kearney, then a liberal minority to a liberal majority, and you sit in the predicament we sit in. And one of the things I get frustrated with mainstream media, but I mean, this is true of the, from where the story begins, is they never go talk to the Albertans that are frustrated or to

the anti-vaxxer who's frustrated. They always try and frame it from a certain light. Yeah. It's gaslighting at its finest. And so I sit here and I go, I don't know. Layden, what should the, like, when you're staring at the, the political game of like, instead of being chasing the game, starting to lead the game, like, no, no, no, this is where we're going. This is where we want to go. We're going to lead here. Yeah. What should the every,

everyday Albertan, Western Canadian, Canadian, who's tuning into the show, what should they be doing? Well, I think that they've got to understand that what the real fight is, once you get past all the politics and independence and all these manifestations, to understand what's really going on in our country and what's really going on in the world. And back in 2003, Prime Minister Harper actually gave a speech on this, and I'll just read this to you because this is going to hit. He says, conservatives need to reassess our understanding of the modern left. He says it has moved beyond old socialistic morality or even moral relativism, relativism to something much darker. It has become a moral nihilism, the rejection of any tradition

or convention of morality, a post-Marxism with deep resentments, even hatreds of the norms of free and democratic Western civilization. So, okay, translation, what does that mean? Well, it's like this, when Mark Carney and his people say that they want a new world order, that new world order begins with the death of Canada. And, you know, little by little, Canada is being turned into a perverted version of itself. There's this kind of diabolical transformation that's being done through a strategy to deconstruct our existing value network, rebuilding it again as a distorted edifice of darkness, of poverty, captivity, tyrannical control, rather than light, truth, justice, security, opportunity, prosperity, and freedom. You know, the Canada that you and I were

born in or we embrace the new life in, it's being radically undermined and destroyed. And so whether you're an oldstock Canadian or an indigenous Canadian or a newer Canadian, And I think we all have to be aware of what's at stake and take action now so that this nation does not surrender to this agenda that Carney and these people want to do. We're dealing with a threat to our way of life, to our sovereignty as an independent nation. And I don't want to overstate this, but also I think to our existence as a people. Like all of this is at stake, Sean. And the people who are listening to this who don't understand independence need to be. understand that's what's at stake. And when I go out and I talk to people at public events about

independence, that's what I'm hearing. That's what people are really afraid of. The people who support independence, they know what's at stake. And it's all at stake. That's the thing. This is a life or death thing for Canada. What Carney and his people want to bring in is the end of the Canada that we know and love. It's the end of the true North strong and free. The new world order begins when the old Canada, the one we love, is dead and buried. And that's what's at stake. And if that doesn't motivate people that are off their couches, get out their doors, or to donate to organizations who are fighting for the right side of this,

then, you know, I don't know what else I could say to them. Well, actually, you know, this is, so going back to Harper 2003. So 23 years ago, Harper. He saw it. He saw it. And now you can love or hate him for things he signed canned into, didn't do, did do, etc. But 23 years ago. Yeah.

He's going, we got a problem. Yep. And like so many people that come before the problem actually starts to show itself up, right? And just consequential, consequential ways, people just can't see it. Or a majority of people can't see it. So you think over two decades later. Myself included. I didn't see it in 2003.

Right. So we're sitting here and you go, okay, this is what I'm talking about. Yeah. How are people motivated? Certainly they are. 300,000 Albertans signed a petition. Now, are all 300,000 as motivated? No, that started with 7,000. But 7,000 turned into 300,000. Yeah. One of the reasons I like David Parker's Centurion Project idea was I went, oh my goodness, this is a way to get everyone off the coach and in the game. Now, since then, right, that's come out that the list and everything, you're just like, oh, my goodness, why such a great idea. Did you have to implode it? Right? Yeah.

So then you go, I had a conversation with, I think, multiple people now. The one that sticks out to me, it was Jason Levine when he was in with the Sean Hartman story. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And Jason Levine said, why? Why couldn't you just do the Centurion project with no database and people just input the database? Yeah.

Because, you know, myself included, I don't go looking for Bob that I don't know. I go looking for the 15 people I know that I don't want to ask about it. And why couldn't you enlist 7,000 people to start building that? To me, the idea holds weight latent of there is motivated people out there. They just don't know where to go. And, you know, like, what do I, do I turn to this? Do I do I go over here? Do I just talk about the referendum?

Like, what's going to be the best way to ensure that most people vote in it at least? Yeah. Because it seems like the referendum is the next thing coming for Albertans of like you need to be involved in this. Yeah. I think that. And it pains me to say this because you would hope that you could appeal to people's reason. But the reality is you've got to get them emotionally involved. And this is something that Mr. Carney and his party did very well during the last federal election.

They had a terrible track record. They couldn't run on the track record. And so they created a totally emotion-based campaign steeped in fear. They just said, Orange Man Bad, elbows up. You have to vote liberal because, you know, the Yanx. are at the border and they're going to overrun us. And that frightened many, many Canadians into voting for them and ignoring their horrible 10-year track record,

maybe the worst 10 years of governance, certainly in my lifetime. So what's the other opposite of what's the other emotion that we have to get people? Well, you know, I don't want to sound trite here, but I think it's love. I think we've got to get people excited about and connected with love of country.

this is happening. That's what the people, when they say they're coming out and they're a proud Canadian, that's kind of what they're expressing. And we might not agree with their emotion, but I think people becoming emotionally engaged and passionate is really important because what I've been talking about here is really what you might call a crisis of modernity. And I wrote about this on my show. And it's hopeless because it's designed to be that way. They want us to have no hope. But you know, there is hope. And that, for example, the historical failure of, you know, the socialist and sexual revolution that's now in its final stages, that's birthing a counter-revolutionary moment. And I think the way out of this crisis is to understand clearly

the history of ideas that caused our current chaos and, by God's grace, you know, for the church, for example, to recover its mission, to point us to the transcendent God. And I think we have to contemplate what is true and what is good and what is beautiful. And if we start to do that, I think we're going to get closer to where we need to be in terms of connecting our hearts and minds with what we really want and what we really need and with God's will for our country. I happen to believe that Canada is a very blessed country. I don't think that God wants it to fail.

But I don't know. I don't know, I don't have the knowledge of God. I don't know what's going to happen in the fullest of time. But I do believe that God has a great plan for Alberta and for Canada and for all Canadians. I just don't know what that's going to look like ultimately. But I know in the meantime, we've got to care more about what happens to our neighbors. We've got to care more of what happens in our communities. And so I think this emotional engagement that we're seeing, although it brings a lot of negative

emotion into it too, I think it's necessary and it's all to the good because the worst thing that could happen to a society is apathy. Aristotle said the two signs of a dead culture, a dead or dying culture, is that. an overabundance of tolerance, which we have in Canada, an apathy. Fortunately, it looked like Canadians were apathetic for a very long time. And Alberta independence has changed all that. Yeah. Well, once again, I come back to Kenny and he talked about people getting off the, he didn't

say sidelines, but getting activated in COVID. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good thing. Yeah. People, people, not for him. Not for him. No. But people getting activated into politics. and getting back into what is creating the laws

and the direction of our country is a good thing. Yes, absolutely. But the day over, but the day over day, I'm like, what has been the most important things I've done? The Jordan Peterson, clean my room,

take responsibility for who I am and what I'm doing in my marriage and my, and my role as a father. And then, you know, that branches out into your community. And, you know,

you can really do a lot of good, just in that. And you think if everybody did that, how quickly things could change. But it's difficult. That's where it adds up. Yeah. Everything counts in large amounts.

You know, we have to remember that. You know, because part of what we're up against, they want us to feel small and ineffectual. Like we don't have any, we don't have any agency. And that's just wrong. And Alberta Independence, if the Alberta Independence movement has proved anything, It's disproved the idea that a small group of people can't make a big difference.

Because you said the numbers. It went from a few people then to 7,000, then 300,000. How many are there now? We've got 700,000 people interested in a petition for a referendum question. That's amazing. You know, if I would have said that to you five years ago, you would have said late and you're crazy. But, you know, we should never discount what people can do when they roll up, especially Albertans.

When we, I don't include Western Canadians in that, as is when we roll up our sleeves and get busy about doing things. There's really no end to what we can accomplish. I'm going to lump in all Canadians. There's just nothing you can like roll up your sleeves and get to work. I run into them. You do too. On this show, I run into these wonderful people all the time.

I'm like, holy macana. We've got a pretty cool group of people here. Regardless, Layton, thanks for hopping on and doing this. Where can people find you? I know you got a new book. Tell everybody where to go, where to find it. Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. So our second book just came out.

It's called Trials, Tribulations and Truth. That's available on Amazon and Kindle. We're working on an audio version. You can have Layton Gray. tickle your ear, trust? Oh, if you can't fall asleep,

that's the ticket, right? But there's that. And then, of course, we have our substack, YouTube. You'll find us on YouTube.

Please subscribe. That helps us. And, of course, we're very active on X as well. But you can find the podcast, really anywhere you find podcasts, Apple, Spotify, elsewhere.

And we love to hear from people. Really great to hear from you, emails, comments. I try to respond to everything. So, but thanks again for having me on, Sean. I always enjoy our conversations. Always come away learning something new and having new insights.

I'm sure your viewers feel the same way. So it's great to be part of all that. Well, I'm like, we better get one on with Layton because here in 39 days, 38 days, whatever it turns into now, folks. You're going on your mission. Well, we're going. And I, I, I tackle about it because I'm like, you know, my goal isn't that I don't talk to my regular guests.

My goal is that I talk to them in a different format, right? And so for people in Alberta, that's going to, you know, it's going to be an interesting conundrum to solve. But we're going to, you know, twos and I are going to be doing the mashup every Friday. It's just, you know, I don't plan on doing as many virtual as I've come to do. I hope to really reverse course on that and get back to, you know, like most people don't realize this. The first, I think it was like first 50 episodes I ever did all in person.

My goal was to do them always in person. I think it's way better. And then, of course, COVID rolled in and threw that on its head. So hopefully get back to the beginning of the podcast and how it was supposed to have been. Well, or to get to some other higher place that you never thought you would get to. Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it'll be an interesting drive.

Layton, thanks for doing this. Yeah. Thank you. It's my pleasure as always.