Shaun Newman Podcast - #1065 - Fergus Hodgson

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Fergus Hodgson is a New Zealand-born financial economist, author, and geopolitical analyst specializing in Latin America, fiscal policy, and alternative investments. Hodgson has held roles such as founding editor of the PanAm Post, Director of Fiscal Policy Studies at the John Locke Foundation, visiting scholar at the American Institute for Economic Research, and director of Econ Americas, a consultancy focused on finance, jurisdictional arbitrage, and stakeholder management. He publishes the Impunity Observer (geopolitical intelligence on rule of law and economic development) and has authored books including The Latin America Red Pill and Financial Sovereignty for Canadians. Watch the Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. How's everybody doing? Happy Tuesday. Yeah, happy Tuesday, folks. When it comes to precious metals, you know who I'm going to talk about. I'm going to talk about Alberta Zone Silver Gold Bowl.

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It's running all week. Would love to have some feed. there. Look forward to seeing your feedback. All right. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is the director of econ Americas and publisher of Impunity Observer. I'm talking about Fergus Hodgson. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Fergus Hodgson. So, sir, thanks for hopping on. Sean, my pleasure to get to know you.

Yeah, well, I was just saying to you. You know, so many times I get to have. somebody the first time they're on this side. And the first conversation is always a bit of a superhero origin story. And I don't, I don't know, Fergus, maybe you're a superhero waiting. I just, I look around at some of the Alberta independence discussions. And I know a lot of the field. I've had lots of them on the show. Pretty much all of them on the show, if I'm being honest.

And then you keep popping. I'm like, who is this guy? And then the audience starts to text me your name. And I'm like, well, it's simple. Let's get them on and let's find out who, Ferguson. says. So Fergus, first time on the show, tell us a bit about yourself. Sure. Well, what makes me relevant to Albertans is that my grandparents were immigrants to Canada and settled in Calgary. My mother was their first born child in Canada. She was actually born just across the border,

way up north and Rose Prairie. And then, so I was born in New Zealand to a Canadian or Albertan mother and a New Zealand father. But I left. I had, you know, I don't know, itch to travel or to explore. And I went to university in the United States, and that made me more open to different ideas, you might say. And I really just devout everything I could about the United States. It's classical liberal history and founding ideals. And in terms of coming back to Canada, I just didn't find good work. I graduated around the global financial crisis. And so I actually couldn't find work in New Zealand, so I thought I'd do better in Canada.

but I struggled there too, to be frank. But regardless, my first job was actually out in Halifax, Nova Scotia. I went to Calgary looking for work because that's where my family still are. But I just got a job offer out there. And so I began working in the, I don't know, conservative, what Canada calls a conservative movement back in 2009. And I've been writing about Canada ever since. one of my best old friends is from Quebec and he introduced me to Quebec secession and he was an

advocate that this is back in 2010 when we met and obviously that that primed me to think of what about what about Alberta and for many years I've this is what's gained traction with me and your audience I guess I've been an advocate for Alberta independence and I never thought it would happen or gather steam like this and so So, you know, here I am. In terms of my work or how I got to be highly motivated, yeah, I mentioned that I learned from organizations like the Foundation for Economic Education, and I became, you know, I just, I was exploring options.

And for my entire adult life, so I'm 43 years old, I have been exploring the world. I've been to too many countries, lived in too many places, literally looking at, for freedom. And I went to pursue the Zetas, or the special economic zones in Honduras. And I've written about it in two books. And I've got chapters on expatriation, on where to go. And my personal view, which I've explained to many people, is that there really is nowhere to flee to, that the Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Celtic world is the freest part of the world. And within that, let's say the sphere of the Northwestern European people and their diaspora, the toughest among those are the mountain people you find in Idaho, Wyoming, Alberta, Montana. And that's why

I think it's a very special people. And I'm devoted, you know, I live just across the border in Colorado from Wyoming. And I think they're a special community. I'm proud to have that connection to that community. When you say you spent a ton of time touring around, looking for freedom, I think is how you put it. I'm getting older now, mate. So I am less.

I travel less than I used to, but yes, I've traveled. Because I was full-time editor-in-chief of a publication focused on Latin America. And so I'd go to just conferences everywhere. And I'd just be a different country each week almost. But when you say looking for freedom, I'm curious. Okay. So in your younger days, you're traveling around Latin America. You rattled off a bunch of different places.

What were you looking for specifically? Like, what did you define as freedom? Yeah, I mean, that's a really big question. And, Sean, if I'm being honest, I think when I was younger, even though I understood economics very well, I was just an economics nerd, I didn't necessarily have the broader philosophical understanding tight at that time. So this is almost 20 years ago I'm thinking about. And so, broadly speaking, my view is that free.

has three components. One is that you can provide for yourself. So you have, let's say, economic self-sufficiency. The other is that you are able to get around people who would impede your range of options. So you have a certain autonomy. So it doesn't mean you have to necessarily get in a fight with everybody, but you could just avert people or get around them. But and the third is that you have self-control. You have mastered your vices. So that means you're basically you're you're free of economic want. You're free from coercion and you also free from your own self-destruction, you might say. And then in terms of what I was looking for, I was a young man just looking for the,

for being up to provide for himself because I felt like the Western world, and this is obviously the case in Canada, had become much less accessible for young people to get started to build their own businesses, to, Yes, buy homes to get beyond just subsistence living, which is what so many people are doing right now, unfortunately. And I thought one of the ways to do that, and there's a kernel of truth to this would be to go to the third world where things are cheaper, where there's maybe more informality so you can take a different path, right? Yeah. On your,

your search for freedom, right? You go on this tour, you know, just walk a boat and you're taking a look. All you're searching, you never ended up just staying and take your pick of a Latin America country. But you just didn't want, oh, this is it. Yeah. Well, so my second book is the Latin America Red Pill. And it has basically two premises. one is that Latin America's problems are immensely worse than most people understand and incomprehensible to people who grow up in a place like rural Alberta.

And I note crime, inequality, poverty, low trust societies and anti-capitalism as chief markers of Latin America. And then one of the chapters is there's nowhere to flee to because there's this assumption, and this is obviously relevant to the Alberta situation, that nations are built by their constitutions, and I just don't believe that. Yes, the constitution is nice, but New Zealand has no written constitution. The UK has no written constitution. Even Canada's constitution is broken up into parts. And what really matters to a nation is the people.

and the values they hold. And, yeah, so the live and let live, let's say, laissez-feer mentality of the Anglo-Sphere and the high trust elements, they grew over many, many years or generations. And you can put whatever constitution you want in Afghanistan, it's not going to turn them into Alberta. or Guatemala where I lived for if I if I turn that yeah and go over the past you know you mentioned you've been in roughly the conservative movement since 2009 here in Canada am I well I've been writing for various publications in Canada sure I haven't lived in Canada since that time yeah yeah yeah but if if you go a constitution going into a certain society isn't going to change them overnight then on the flip side of that you you talk you bring it directly to Alberta, but although you rattled off four areas around the mountains, you mentioned Montana, Wyoming, Alberta, and forgive me, Idaho, I want to say. Idaho, yeah. You could, you could

add Colorado of 30 years ago if you want to. What I mean to bring up is, is it takes time to undermine those people and it's all just still sitting there. If something comes in and can't change a population overnight to adopt certain principles. On the flip side, 10 years of liberal government, trying to erode all the things we value, all those things we still value are there with the population. Yeah. Okay. Well, the problem is that you can change a place by immigration very quickly. So I tend to disagree. I think it's right that yes, the people who settled in the mountain states and in Alberta did so over an extended period, and they developed a very distinct way of life or culture,

but they're sparsely populated, right? So they can be overwhelmed by different people in short order. So I think you can change them. And unfortunately, in the case of Alberta, they've been colonized by Ottawa for more than a century, and that has given many people there, let's say the unhealthy habits of broader camps, Canada, so some anti-Americanism, some dependency on like a welfare state mentality.

I was just, I mean, for example, I personally, obviously have a strongly anarcho-capitalist or libertarian mentality. I don't want government in any part of my life. And the idea that I would want government to manage my retirement, for example, is just insane to me, right? Why, I just think, do you have such a low self-esteem that you think government bureaucrats are better at taking care of you than you are of yourself? What? I don't get it, right? But I know that so many people have been conditioned from a very early age to have low self-esteem, low confidence in their own efficacy, and they look to a mother institution to take care of them. And of course, that is much more pronounced.

and other parts of the world than in Alberta, but it obviously is in Alberta too. And especially when it comes to things like medical care. Yeah, I'm I truckle on this side because I agree with you, right? Like I don't like government being in many parts of my life. Sure. You know, I watched, you were just on, Keith Wilson had his debate with Jason Kenny and you were on stage with Eva Trippiak and Keith. And one of the things that you'd ask them,

that I found Keith Wilson's thoughts really interesting on is we aren't going to win being the little engine that could. He was talking about it being grassroots movement of the Alberta independence and that it needed to really start playing by the rules of what the government's going to do, third party advertisers and big money and bringing in different people, I would say, to try and get the middle of the road, Albertan, to see the advantages of something like Alberta independence. What did you think of that thought? I agree with him, although I don't want to downplay the value of the unpaid volunteers. I don't want to denigrate them at all. I think they're amazing.

Did you follow the Thomas Massey primary race in Kentucky? Well, I know you have to forgive me. Being a Canadian watching it, yeah, like the amount of money spent there was insane. Tens of millions for just one writing. Yeah, 18 million for. and whatever the math was on the other side, 14 million the other way, something like that is the numbers I'd saw. They could be a little off, but that's the numbers I'd saw. Yeah. So, I mean, now, Canada has incredibly restrictive rules and Alberta regarding spending

money and political campaigns. Yeah, I'm just coming to grips with those. That being said, I just know, how can I put this, if we don't professionalize, we're fighting with one hand behind our back, right? So this is a passion project for me, and I assume for you, right, we've got our own work we do on many, many fronts. But we have an interest in our own independence, and so we'll give our time and resources to it as much as we can afford. But if you want someone like me or ever to go into a debate with the likes of Kenny, we have to be doing it full time. We have to be incredibly well prepared. We have to be following all the arguments, the new research. We have to have a lot of numbers memorized and just part of our daily discussion.

And you can't just expect the good people who are on the farm to do that, right? even if they have the right values, the right convictions. So I agree with him. I mean, again, I don't want to downplay the volunteers. It's almost like when you put on a marathon, a big marathon race, you will have paid people in the event, and then you'll have volunteers who hold up the signs to go this way or who hand out the numbers before the start of the race.

It's a mix. You couldn't do it when 100% voluntary. volunteer. The event just would not happen. And I mean, I've spoken with experts in this field, political strategists or campaign strategist, the people who run the numbers. And the idea that you would go into such a battle without fundraising substantially would seem insane to them. Yeah, that you're taking on the Jerry butts of the world, right? These real hardened operatives who are full-time professionals have been doing it for decades. And you're getting people who are have great character and are honest, but who are not specialists. And I don't blame them.

I'm just saying this is a specialized task. And if we, if, if we already had two-thirds support, it might be fine. We could maybe get away with it, but we don't. And I don't think it's downplaying the volunteers. If I'm being honest. Yeah, yeah. I'm no, I'm definitely, I just don't. I know what. No, no, no. I know what you're saying. But I think if you're a volunteer, I can't speak for volunteers, right? but I would assume you believe in the cause and you want to see it win. And a win in this case is getting to a referendum specifically October 19th and seeing majority of alberdens agree with we should start the process of getting out of this.

And if you said, well, the way we do that is we need 15 third party organizers to do X, Y, Z, and it's going to cost this much, I think lots of people would be, well, I get what you're saying. I don't think there'd be any offense taken. Look at the, but it doesn't take away from what the volunteers have done, all the 7,000-plus people who canvassed Alberta to get to the 300,000 mark. Like in the middle of, man, it wasn't great weather here where I saw the canvas are standing. And I don't think you can tip the cap enough to that group of people.

And this doesn't take anything away from that group of people. It should not. It should not. One of the challenges, and I've been thinking about this, more and more of the last few weeks is how to structure that funding to fit the right incentives. So if you are in a major football team, you might get an award or an extra bonus if you win the championship. And there are all sorts of cases in which players actually don't play their best when they're in contract negotiations or whatever. And also because I'm familiar with the nonprofit and think tank world, I just know how they wait.

money like crazy. And some of the think tanks I work at will have basically as many I have worked at will have as many people working in fundraising as in actually doing anything. The incentives are not right. And then you'll have people at the top collecting a lot of money, not actually doing anything either. It's, it's, I realize there is an incentive problem here. So you'd want to be very judicious about how you allocate funding. And what have you cut when you, when you stew on that, Right? With your background. You sit and you go, okay. Because I was listening to not only Keith, but I forget,

there was one other guy talking about, you know, just like, it's not like, you know, I don't know, Elon Musk could walk in. No, he's not a Canadian. Forgive me, folks. Yeah. He walks in and goes, listen, here's a billion dollars. Go spend it on ads and let's get this thing rocking and let's hire a bunch of people and off we go.

Because the way it works is I think it's, what, $5,000 maximum contribution? And you're like, well, for some people, that's a lot of money. For others, it's a small amount. Regardless, you go in order to do these large campaigns, you go back to your Thomas Massey comment. It's like, how many people it would take to add up $5,000 to get those numbers? I don't know. And this is where it's beyond my experience. And because, however, we should recognize that the referendum or the election is really the icing on the cake.

And that's why, again, Keith is correct. Keith also is correct in that in some ways, the movement is not ready for a referendum right now. I'm not saying we couldn't get there with five months of campaigning, but you need the pillars. You need, yes, a healthy media network or ecosystem. And right now, we have. of the Western standard, maybe Rebel.

Obviously, Sheila Gunn Reader is a big supporter. She does great work. We have many wonderful podcasters like yourself. And but we, I was just thinking about the actual, let's say, yeah, about $2 billion goes to Legacy Media. And of all the alternative media, we might have $20 million, right? So it's a thousand to one, right? And so you need media, you need an intellectual circle, you need activist networks, you need a student

kind of network, you need experienced campaigners. There are many little different ingredients and it's not like, yeah, exactly, you can't just drop a billion dollars and expect all that to arise. It has to be some organic growth to that. And many of the ingredients are there for Alberta. it's not a huge stretch. It's not a huge stretch. But one thing you will notice with your own work is that there still is, let's say, unmet demand for Alberta content in that there really is a distinct Alberta audience. And it's a bit like back in the 80s and early 90s when Fox News was

growing. There was a recognition that you had all these urbanite journalists and TV networks or whatever who did not relate to middle America. And Rippard Murdoch, who's originally from Australia, said, let's make a channel that celebrates America. And Fox News just came in and crushed everybody, right? So in Alberta, there still is this unmet audience that all the podcasters, all the, let's say, citizen journalists are addressing, but they're still getting there. There's still more territory there. Yeah. So, again, and I don't know.

I'm not sure how you drop a billion dollars. And in some ways, maybe it's healthy that you can't just drop a billion, that you have to spread it around to different organizations so that it's more of a like an attack on many fronts. Because it's not just the politics, it's also building, let's say, the cultural element. I mean, of course, Al-Burda has that too, but trying to make sure that people understand our Buddha's distinctiveness, right?

and how do you do that? That typically takes generations. That's an interesting question. Yeah, well, because, and most people aren't even aware of it because their schools and universities and media are so, I'm not sure whether ethnically is that I would, but they're so blind to identity or the history of the place that you grow up not even thinking about it.

You don't realize the exceptionalism of the location. And certainly when I was growing up, New Zealand, I didn't realize I was fortunate to go up in a high trust society. I didn't know how dysfunctional the rest of the world is. I think people, maybe I'm wrong. You talk about it taking, you know, generational, right, to change that? Well, it's already, it's already well on the way. In many ways, you just, with the Alberta identity, you're just defining it and

celebrating what already has grown over generations. So obviously the rodeo culture is a big part of that. Sure. I mean, yeah, so I'm not writing a, I know someone who's writing a book on this on basically how Alberta. And really, it's not just Alberta. It's almost like the prairie western Canada community, right? So it would be Saskatchewan and like I said, even northern British Columbia or whatever would be part of this nation of Western or Prairie Canada, which doesn't necessarily fit exactly.

into the borders of the province of Alberta. But defining who these people are, the ecosystem, the lifestyle, the values, yes, their ethnic origins, the religious convictions, all these elements that go into creating this community and making it distinct, making it a nation. And it's, I mean, obviously that's why I, in my own work, aside from, let's say, discussing the economics of the, of the,

the project, I've just said, we need to celebrate this identity. And like, like I said, identify it or make it known as distinct from, especially Ottawa, but just the rest of Canada. Well, you know, when you, when you bring in Saskatchew, you bring in Northern Burdo, right? And I just draw that out quickly, folks, nothing, nothing fancy. I thought this for, I've thought this, sorry, what did I say? Northern Alberta. Yeah, that's fine. Sorry, Northern BC. What you get is the middle of it, the heart of it, is Alberta.

And I've wondered this since the middle of COVID. Why Alberta? Why is it so different than everywhere else, right? Because when you look at all the provinces, there's only one province that ousted their premier after COVID, right? There's only one province. I mean, Tamara Leach and Chris Barber, Alberta, Saskatchewan, right? both sitting under house arrest. There's only one province that's got that everybody argues about with the best

premier in the country who's being absolutely attacked by everybody right now. It's Daniel Smith. But then I look at some of the most interesting voices that talk about what's going on in Canada, and a lot of them are based right in Alberta. What is that? You know? That's a long story, mate. Like I said, in my view, it is the people who went

So of course, there were more American ranchers who went there. The prairie people and foothills, mountain people, they had to deal with a much harsher climate. They were more rural or agrarian. They were more motivated by economic prospects as opposed to maybe mercantile or urban projects. They were more conservative Christian. I mean, there are many ingredients. It's not like there's just one thing you can put your finger on, right? And in terms of being a more high trust area,

I do think the lack of the major urban centers has contributed. Now, of course, that has changed in recent decades that both Alberta and Edmonton have grown massively, even since when I was a child. But so there are many elements. It's not like there's just one thing, but it's a bit like, say, the New Zealand, culture. It's not just one thing. Many ingredients have made the Kiwis or New Zealand is distinct

within the broader Anglo-Sphere or within the broader Anglo-Saxon or British heritage community. Yeah. Well, I would agree. I mean, New Zealand is an island set apart from everywhere else, right? So obviously it's going to be honest. Yeah. The landlocked element is not a problem for us. A little different. You mentioned this is a passion project for you. Obviously having a mum from Alberta, coming back to Alberta at different times in your life. Yeah. And then I just, maybe I tack on just in our brief conversation, the fact that you spent a time in your life looking for

where does freedom reside in the world. When you talk passion, project. UC Alberta is one of those places that could be, I don't know, one of the freest places on the planet? Yeah, absolutely. So the, as I said, I mean, years ago, I had this discussion with a worker of mine, a longtime colleague who lived in Padigua. And it was funny because I had just gone for a trip to the Dominican Republic. And it is, Santa Domingo, it is, Santa Domingo, it. is, I don't know, I don't want to trash it too much, but it has its challenges. And so does Assumcantuan, Paraguay, where my body was living. And he said to me, Ferg, we might have low taxes, we might have open trade, but we're still poor.

He said, it's the people, okay? And that really jolted me. So it got me to thinking, well, okay, who are these people who within them have the strongest sense of rugged individualism, right? And it is, like I said, if you look at the top dozen or so countries for economic freedom, it almost always is northwestern European countries and their diaspora, especially the British diaspora. Then you might have Singapore and Hong Kong, which are weird city states that basically have followed or tried to replicate our systems. Now, the, so when I look at the mountain states and Alberta, they face this real problem that

there's basically a ceiling. They cannot become any free. And no matter what their people vote for, it doesn't matter. They're stuck with the Canadian Canada pension plan or Social Security. They're stuck with federal laws. They can't sell raw milk, at least legally, right? and they're kind of like they're captured. Now, if you were to make some parts of the world new countries,

it wouldn't really do a lot of good because the people would just rebuild the same problems all over again. But in the case of these states in Alberta, they really are different from the broader country that surrounds them. And therefore, if they were to be separate, they would manifest as much. as possible on a popular level, you might say, economic freedom. And Alberta is such a striking case because everybody can see it, whether you're in Nova Scotia or in Alberta, you can see that Alberta is different and would vote for a more, yes, socially conservative, fiscally conservative,

classically liberal economy, then the rest of Canada. I mean, it's very almost not night and day, but it's a stark contrast. And on my flight back to Colorado, I was thinking about this, you could just go down the list. You could just say all the different, let's say values of Ottawa versus values of Alberta, you would say, well, Ottawa will value this diversity, equity and inclusion, whereas Alberta will value meritocracy. Or Otto will value basically the state as the religion. like we'll pretend to respect all religions, but really the state is the new God or rule setter, whereas in Alberta there will be more a sense for natural war or natural rights, right?

A deeper conviction of morality. You will see that there is respect in Alberta for being a self-made man rather than working through a bureaucracy. I mean, they're just, you could, like, I want to build a proper list of this, of these items, but when it comes to the economy, yes, there would be laissez-furk. capitalism versus mercantilism or a planned economy known through supply management. And I just, how can I put it? Like I said, I've looked at all these different projects around the world. I mean, because it was such a passion of mine since my university days.

And I was almost shocked to realize how other people didn't get or I didn't understand. And so I was thinking, where can I go? But the truth is that wherever there are more entrepreneurial people, the parasites come like bees to honey to try to pray on them. And that's what I see as the case with Alberta, that the predators have come and encircled Alberta, and I've been doing it for more than a century. And just some people are happy to be preyed upon. They're happy to be abused. They just accept that they live a more peasant-like reality, and they're happy with that.

some people will stand up for themselves. And I just hope more people realize or understand. But again, I'm not saying everyone in Alberta is an anarcho-capitalist or whatever, but there's a much stronger sense of a way of life devoted to, like I said, meritocracy, social conservatism, all these attributes that are alien to Ottawa. I mean, one right now that's very important is, excuse me, is free speech because it's clear that free speech is a threat to Ottawa. And they're coming up with all these elaborate ways to manipulate the dialogue. And my latest article about this was Ottawa is interfering with Alberta independence because we have it, I don't mind saying, we have a controlled opposition in Canada. We have

this establishment conservatism. We have this bought off think tank world. I don't even blame them. It's just how can you survive in Canada in the nonprofit world without, you know, complying with all these CRA audits or concerns about you being political. So they've basically made it very difficult for independent voices. Of course, you are one of the few people who can make a living speaking as speaking their minds. But that's, that's a rare, you know, it's a rare thing. Yeah, I mean, I just look like you said.

I mean, I wrote about this recently because we all saw this report about how Russia and the United States are basically funding or leading this Alberta campaign. I just thought, you'd have to be so unaware of this campaign or this movement to say such a ridiculous thing. And because anyone can go to these events and you know that no one's being paid there, it's all from the heart. Okay. And, you know, we might sell a few books or whatever, what I sell my book.

But it's largely a passion project. And I took the time. to read this report and it is embarrassing. But they have, they list, I think, at least five different think tanks or organizations that worked on this. This report might have cost half a million dollars, right? Easily. And you think, how can one man just with the truth in his hand compete with that? It's really tough because I don't have the capacity, nor to you, to have an army of editors and researchers and surveyors to build this report, which is so twisting the truth. And I, but, but I mean, all I can do is criticize it on X, basically, and on my own website, but I don't have

the BBC world parroting my stupid report, you know, the stupid report. It's a good question. You know, like I think, um, how can you compete with what they've done? Well, the simple answer is we're, we're crying out for the truth at this point, right? Like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like a water in a vast desert. It doesn't mean everybody wants it. But like, I mean, the longer this goes, Fergus, it's getting to strange, stranger and stranger territory. You talk about the report on the U.S. and Russia,

and you're like, all you got to do is just walk into any room that's talking about this all across Alberta. And in the first two minutes, you're going to realize Russia's doing this. Man, they are freaking creative. because I don't know how you get Bob from the farm just down the way to come out. And there's Mary. She's doing her thing. And like that's the entire group.

This is about as grassroots as it gets. But when you don't want to understand something, you just slander it. And you hammer it with the scariest things out there, Russia, US, Trump's doing it, Putin's doing it, all these crazy things that got, you know, the current government federally elected. Yeah. I mean, so this is the problem, right? There's this saying that the lie is around the world before the truth gets out of bed in the morning, right? Yeah.

And that is exactly the case here where this report, even though anyone who reads it can find basic errors, mistakes in the editing, and also basically just no real substance to work with. It was ridiculous. It got such, I mean, I mean, I would kill to have such coverage, right? if my opinions were being parroted by all the legacy outlets in Canada and even internationally by the BBC world and I'm sure many other outlets, that would be amazing. It's almost like they were just trained to know this is the line we've got to parrot. So how do you compete with that? This is the ongoing question you and I are wrestling with. I don't have an easy answer because this is the whole problem of handouts for media in Canada. Right. So as far as I know,

example, even the Western Standard gets some kind of tax subsidies now from the media program. Because there's a saying with these media programs, heads, they win, tails you lose, right? So you take the money, they win. You don't take the money, you lose. There's no real win here. Once you create these programs, you're fighting with one hand behind your back. If you don't take the money, it's really sad. So that's why, I mean, that fundamentally the program itself is the problem where there should be no bailouts or subsidies for media at all.

And that's why the real citizen journalism, which is basically working for nothing or not getting, doing it unpaid, is where there's the most trust or with the most dynamism. And at my event, I had Critical Compass doing video recording. And they get paid nothing. They just do it because they love it, right? And they're afraid to take money for fear of being attacked by elections Alberta. It's really a tragedy that this organization, which is purportedly to protect democracy, is actually just striking fear into many people that any kind of funding or support for their work would cause them to get into the crosshairs.

So in terms of the solution, I mean, I just, think it's almost like it's almost like fighting government schools or public schools you've got to build better alternatives that are more attractive even given the gargantuan or the huge like you said david versus goliath fight i don't see any of their option because uh that yeah they're they're against us i mean they're they're brought off and i noted in my one of my articles that there's a great professor at wilford laureate university david haskell i think his name is and He just says on a local level, right, if you work at, I don't know, CBC Red Deer or something, you might be able to get a job as just kind of like a moderate person, but you will never

advance unless you promote the progressive agenda. Sure. And so the further you get up, the more you get into the higher level spheres of legacy, or I call them Regie Media, the more you get these people who are pre-selected to fit the progressive world view or the you could call lots of different terms postmodern world view yeah yeah i don't i don't once again i don't disagree with you i um yeah it's it's an interesting conundrum right because like you go well i wish we had a billion dollars but even if we could election in alberta and a whole bunch of different things would come down on you so you can't really do that and so then you sit there and

and you stew on, well, how do you, you know, I think most Albertans look at the two major centers. They look at Eminton and Calgary. And they go, how do we get penetration, I guess might be the word? How do we get into those circles and get talking to the everyday city, big city person to explore the idea of this that isn't being infiltrated with the ideas that it's Russia and U.S. These are all terrible ideas. These people are nuts. Because I think like, you know, from my eyes, rural Alberta, for the most part is like, this makes sense. They've known it for a long time.

Yeah. You talk to the older generation. They've been waiting for a time kind of like this, which brings me back to one of the things I'd circled. You said it. You know, all over the world, you're like, you look for the opportunity of where freedom's starting to bubble. But then you really got to look at the people because if they get an opportunity for freedom, what are they going to put in its place? and you have, I think, outlined Alberta's that place. It's got the right group of people, roughly,

and the opportunity for a vote to happen or the opportunity for freedom to come about where it could actually move humanity in an interesting direction. But in order for that to happen, then you've got to look at the two major centers because there's a huge chunk of the population sitting there. Yeah, this is where it's a battle of perception. because, and I'm reluctant to name names right now,

but let's just say, I'm thinking of one person who's a glaring example, but there are a few who are pulled forward as representatives of Alberta, and they have, let's say, a less gentlemanly or an uncoothed manner. And they want to present. represent Albertans that way, because that makes them unpalatable to urban professionals. So and when it comes to media, they will also, I mean, because basically what we're facing

is social ostracism and the urban professionals are much more conscious of fitting into that corporate world and don't want to be isolated. And so independent media and there's also a very prominent media outlet that is known for basically getting into fights with the federal government or various human rights laws or whatever. And I don't have, I like this. I like this game, Fergus, where we don't name names, but everybody knows who you're talking about. Everybody knows media you're talking about. I'm just saying that they fit the stereotype of these like ninkin poops or what are going to call them like these kind of radicals. And that they're not the globe and male that are so, oh, where's.

fancy. And so I think that's unfortunately really powerful, this sense of prestige or credibility that is attractive to the urban professionals that is not conveyed by the representatives held up. And so I think that's a very difficult challenge. But the more that we get people who have that credibility come our way, which I think, and I think more will, the more that kind of barrier will dissipate. So at my event, I invited Barry Cooper, one of Canada's leading intellectuals, right? He has been writing about Western civilization since the 1970s, and he's got so many books out. He wrote about the problems of the CBC back in the 1990s. It's difficult for them to say this guy is some uncouth redneck. He's an incredibly refined gentleman. And he's not afraid also to call out

an imperial regime. I was a bit surprised, actually, that he would say it in those terms. Those are terms I would use, but he's not afraid. He's been studying this for forever. He's not intimidated by other people. And so I think the people who are against independence or against decentralization, they're afraid of this leaking out, you might say. They would. want to keep this contained and have these, we have this challenge here in the United States where people will portray certain movements, like let's say the Tea Party as being a bunch of uneducated, you know, blue-collar people when, of course, there were many smart or erudite people involved as well. And so I think that is that battle of perceptions for better and for worse is really

where it's at because that is kind of like the point of scrimmage, the point of contact in the battle. That's where the fight is going on of perception. Because once you break down that, people will get over and they'll actually do the reading or do the look deeper and then they'll come to our side. But so long as they're stuck behind dirty words, like these people are xenophobic, or these people are, whatever other negative word you want to use, that's enough to skip people away often. Or these people are just like, yeah, uncouth ranches or whatever it may be, that doesn't fit, right? They don't want to be associated with such people. Yeah.

And I'm not saying I'm no angel or saint in this regard. I'm sure they can throw plenty of names of me too. Yeah. Well, they can throw plenty of names at all of us, and they certainly do. This battle of perceptions is an interesting idea. I think of the men who've gotten, and women, I should add, who've gotten to 300 signatures. And then I look at, you know, mainly Keith Wilson, to be honest.

Sorry, Keith, I'm going to pick on you. not in a bad way. I just look at it as a lot of people see him as a voice of reason. That can be right or wrong. And what are you seeing? You're seeing Keith enter media more and more. And he's not attacking the Premier. He's trying to work with what she's building or giving the independence movement.

She's navigating this narrow corridor where people wish she would go to one side or the other, depending where they sit. And there are a lot more calm voices entering the ring because there is a referendum coming on a referendum of a referendum. You know, like it's a little bit of a thing to get your brain around. And, you know, you can get mad because it isn't binding. But the truth of the matter is, it's an opportunity. And when I go back up to circling the word opportunity, October 19th here in Alberta, you're going to have this opportunity to get another opportunity to keep pushing this thing forward. And in order to do that, you need, you know, I don't agree with Carney. I don't think it needs to be 72%.

I think 50 plus 1% is a majority. And that would be enough to push it to an actual referendum. Regardless what I think. He doesn't make the rolls. No, I agree. No. And so you go, well, what stands in the way of that being an outcome October 19th? Well, I don't know, Fergus, in this conversation, we both, I don't think,

either one of us said oh it's a slam dunk October 19th just get us there no it's like no there's work to be done and in between here and there it's like well what's the best ways to do that there's a lot of good answers or a lot of answers but it's like is it possible and then how do you get to the undecided or the milky middle soft middle

whatever we're calling it middle to try and get them in a position where they're like you know what we should push this to an actual referendum Well, I just want to give one more example. On this one, I can say the man's name. I'm not criticizing him at all. But did you see the lengthy article in the Toronto Star about Mitch Sylvester? Hmm, I haven't.

Well, there was basically a gentleman who grew up in Edmonton, who's been living in Toronto for a long time. And he went on tour with Mitch around as they were doing, I guess, campaigning for the petition, the signature drive. And he wrote a lengthy article. I mean, it would have been easily 2,000 words. And it was this kind of very gossipy, mean-spirited depiction of Mitch as a guy who is unrefined, who's loose with his words, who's this hillbilly, who doesn't know what he's talking about, who's a conspiracy theorist, and he's a right-winger, he's a part of the megosphere. Every single pejorative you could muster was there.

And that he was sexist. And so I just thought, this is what we're fighting against. We're fighting at this kind of like this mean girl, gossipy, social ostracism of Mitch. And again, there was some truth in there. There were kernels of truth, but peppered with all this just innuendo and gossip about him. That was really unfair and mean-spirited. That's what we're fighting against. And again, just like you, I don't have an easy solution.

I'm just aware of this battle of perception, of legitimacy, of authority that is going on. And we have to realize that's a thing. It's a thing. There's a book called You Are the Message and You Are the Message. And I'm sorry, my voice is not so clean this morning. I've had a cold. But our presence is the message, whether we like it or not. You know, the battle perception, one of the reasons why I've done the

cornerstone form the way I have, right? You'd mentioned, you'd asked me before we started if that was mine. I was yes. And the reason I have is, is I, you know, I wouldn't have put it in the terms of battle of perception. But that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get us closer to where the, um, it can be legitimized is like some of these thoughts need to be talked about. And Daniel Smith being there this year is another form of legitimizing that or that battle of perception of like, wait a second. What is this? Maybe he isn't. fringe because with your gossipy example, that's exactly what they do. They just, they write you off. No, I'm not even listening to that. That guy talks to a bunch of, it's like, what are you talking about?

It's so, it is so powerful. It's tragically so powerful. They do it because it works, right? Yes. Yeah, I had another example, but I was listening to you. So I've forgotten it now. Okay. Fergus, appreciate you hopping on. If people wanted to find you, where would you send them to? Well, the best place is X. That's where I'm active. Just at Ferg Hodgson.

You can also find me on Substack. I have a newsletter to vote to financial economics. It's Econ Americas or one word. So econamericas. com. I have a geopolitical outlet that's impunity observer. dot com. And my book is financial sovereignty for Canadians.

It gets a bit confused with the green screen, but yeah, financial sovereignty for Canadians. And I would love for more people to read this and give me feedback. It came out two years ago. And it's not just about the political world. You might say it's about trying to take personal action like you have. And that's part of your event too, about not waiting for politicians to change because I realize that within Canada, people who really care about freedom, find themselves in a minority and therefore they have to rather than wait for politicians to change

to be proactive about it. When you when you stare at sorry I meant to ask you something on finances like way back when and then we got pulled off on a different track. When you stare at Canada and what it's doing financially do you just scratch your head and go like what are they doing or is it more clever than I give him credit for? The latter. It is more clever. In many ways, it seems like a suicide mission, but it's a similar,

I just think people are plundering the commons, right? In economics, there's this term, the problem of the commons, that historically, things that are in the commons that are not privately owned will be abused. And in the case of Canada, the trough of taxpayer money or whatever,

is huge and people are just plundering that. And it's almost like they expect Canada to go down. So let's just get in while it's going while it is cheap. And that's why you must have seen this story about Connie's lavish trips. I don't even care about that, if I'm being honest with you. I think, I mean, so he had some gourmet food. I don't care. This is just pennies compared to the broader problems.

So, but I'm not. surprise at all. This is one of the challenges that I have to convey to people that they think politics works by some kind of moral compass or what is right or what stakeholders need or blah, blah, blah. I look at it through the lens of what's called public choice economics. You've heard the term, I'm sure, but it just means politics without romance, that if we just assume all the players are behaving in a self-interested manner, what would they do? So, and this explains a lot of Canada's structure. You think, why does Quebec get more representation?

This doesn't make any sense. And the Quebecers, they just think, well, we're just trying to get more for our province. We're just doing that. We're getting away with it. We're letting them, right? They're just pushing as far as they can until someone will resist. And so public choice economics basically explains the emergent nature of government, that it emerges from, let's say, yes, the constitutional framework, the economy,

the constituents, there are these ingredients. And so what you observe in government is really just the manifestation of these underlying ingredients. That's what I really care about, these underlying ingredients. And so unless you change those, I don't care. There's just this week, there was some kind of announcement about this unified, like, I don't know, stay in Canada project in Alberta from some law firm and some other journalists. They're going to do all these, like, they've got these fancy words like this, like these policy

salons or whatever that they're going to do. And I'm going, are you kidding me? Is that actually how government works? We know it doesn't, but it just sounds fancy. It gives us legitimacy to what is going on. And we're going to do all these like real like, you know, when you go and you interview people about their needs. Like there's a term that market is used where they do focus groups.

We're going to do focus groups with all the stakeholders. We know this is all just a waste of time. We've already had the firewall letter. We've already been trying to change Ottawa for decades. It's all ridiculous. But because they wear fancy suits and they use fancy language, people go, oh, well, they're so smart or whatever. And so I just, like I said, I focus on the core underlying framework,

the core ingredients. And I see the actual political outcomes as downstream from that, from those ingredients. It's been very nice meeting you. I appreciate you. Appreciate you hopping on and who knows here in the future, maybe we'll get you back on on a panel or something. But either way, Fergus, thanks for coming on and sharing a bit about yourself and then obviously grilling India about some thoughts on Alberta and Canada as a whole. Anytime, Sean, keep up the great work. I appreciate the opportunity. Cheers.