Shaun Newman Podcast - #1085 - Dustin Stout

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Dustin W. Stout is an American entrepreneur, speaker, writer, and AI company founder best known as the Founder and CEO of Magai.co, an all-in-one AI platform that integrates multiple AI tools for productivity, content creation, and business workflows. Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Lomago. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre-Core. Hi, this is Frank Peretti. This is Daniel Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Canada today, July 1st here. A new month, which means only days away from hitting the road. Happy Canada today. Hopefully, wherever you're at, folks, you're getting to spend some time with. friends and family enjoying a day away from work and I don't know maybe you're taking some time

what's everybody up to hopefully the rain stop hopefully you're at the lake or or what have you on this side it's hard and heavy here as we get close to we're going a mile a minute trying to get ready everything so we can leave on July 5th that's coming this Sunday and looking forward to getting on the road and getting this trip underway now tomorrow we have Tanner and a day on we're doing a little, we talk about an awful lot, but we try and bring it back to the trip and try and fill in some details for all of you. Now, before we get to today's guest, let's talk a little silver gold bull, shall we, when it comes to precious metals.

Down in the show notes, you can find contact details for Graham. You can text or email him. He's got all your questions answered on anything to do with precious metals. And, of course, Silver Gold Bull got their start in Rocky Mountain House. Now they're all over the planet. they're quite worldwide. And of course you can find them at silvergoldbull.ca, silvergoldbull.com.

And they can answer, Graham can answer down the show notes. Any questions you have around buying, selling, storing, precious metals. And, you know, it's just easy. Go down the show notes, you'll find them there. Bow Valley Credit Union here in Alberta, it's all about lending deposits,

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It was Andrew on, I don't know, was that two or three weeks ago talking about, you know, they're not getting completely out of precious metals, they're just diversifying some of that, while the price of silver has dropped down to $84.95, and they were putting it into energy and starting to see some changes there. So, you know, if that sounds like somebody you're interested in having while they work with people who share their values, family, community, hard work, living within your means and personal freedom, and that's i-welfth.ca, that's i-welfwelfth.ca, if you're interest in meeting somebody who's going to pay attention to your money here in Alberta. They're based at a Calgary, Alberta. So there you go. Another Alberta company, sorry.

And then closer to home, Diamond 7 Meats, that's here in Lloyd Minster. Their family-run business with 27 years of service offering more than just retail cuts. They provide livestock processing for farmers, ranchers in Saskatchewan, Alberta, including custom sausage making for both domestic and wild game. And they can connect you directly with producers offering sides or quarters of beef, pork, and lamb. And, of course, in, you know, we got weddings, we got graduations, we got all that stuff. I guess grads are, by and large, done now. But we got a whole bunch of gatherings, I'm sure, happening throughout the summer months.

They can cater that for you as well, okay? You can find them on the north side of town, highway 17 and 67th Street north, or you can give Diamond 7 meets a call today 306, 825-9-7-18. It is now, what is it, four days until we're pulling out. And, you know, we got the house rented. Wiping my brow, you can't see that. A big stress reliever there. We're going to be at the COSA family residence on Sunday night. So that is exciting.

So just La Duke. And then from La Duke, we go to the east side of Calgary. And we're going to be camping out there for four or five nights. I think it's four nights. And people were asking, you're going to hear about it on my conversation with Tanner. if we're releasing, you know, kind of the itinerary. And I'm going to be putting that on substack so you guys can have a look at it. And if you're wanting to pay attention to where we're going, where we've been,

some of the behind the scenes, substack is where you want to be. And I'll be doing my best to keep us all updated on where we're at and some of the things going on, you know, as we move along here. But it's coming up very, very, very fast, looking forward to it. and yeah, looking forward to seeing you all on the open road. Now, if you're listening or watching on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X Facebook, Substack, make sure to subscribe, make sure to leave a review, make sure to share with a friend, all right?

Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is the founder and CEO of Magi. I'm talking about Dustin Stout, so buckle up, here we go. Well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Dustin Stout. Sir, thanks for hopping on. Thank you for inviting me on. Now, your first time on, you've got to tell us a little bit about yourself and who you are so the audience can get a feel for you.

Well, I am Dustin Stout. I am the founder and CEO of Magi. Long story short, I'm a small town boy that moved out to the big city to pursue acting. That didn't work out too well and I didn't feel like waiting tables. So I became an entrepreneur instead. You know, the lovely thing about the long, the lovely thing about podcast is we want the long story. We don't want the short story. So small town boy, where did you grow up then? Well, I grew up in small town Pennsylvania, a little town called Sharon, a town that nobody's heard of.

But, you know, working class family, hardworking mom and stepdad. My dad actually lived out in California. So all my life, I wanted to be an actor. And when I graduated high school, I moved out to California with my dad and lived there with him, went to acting school for two years, a prestigious acting academy, and got an agent, started auditioning. And it turns out there's a lot of tall white guys out there trying to do the same thing. And they kept getting the roles, and I didn't. So, yeah, I mean, you know, when you're-

Did you- get a roll? I mean, I did a handful of shorts and I did a commercial and, you know, nothing, you know, super, nothing to write home about. I mean, my mama was proud, but, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't going to make me a living. That's for sure. And so you, you slowly slide into being an entrepreneur then. You're like, oh, what? Yeah, very slowly. What was the, not the low point, but what was the point you're like, you know, I was a hockey player. And on this side, you know, I got all the way to Finland. And that sounds like all magical in things until you realize I wasn't making,

you know, enough to put myself, you know, to put a roof over my head, essentially. And it was a ton of fun. But there was a dawning realization there that I'm like, you know, I just don't think I'm going to make the NHL. I just, I think that those days have passed. When you're sitting there trying to be an actor and you get, you know, okay, I got a commercial. I got a couple things. What was the moment you're like, I just don't think this is going to. work out for me. You know, I don't think I've ever actually hit that point. I think it's in my mind,

I'm actually building businesses so that eventually I can let them run themselves and I can go pursue acting to some degree again. I don't think I'll ever be in a movie with Tom Cruise like I once dreamed. But who knows? The goal for me, entrepreneurship is really just the freedom. As an entrepreneur, I have always been sort of a deviant thinker. I didn't think I was an entrepreneur until, you know, somebody showed up in one of my college classes was like, hey, I have got this business opportunity for you. And I was like, oh, really?

What does that mean? And he goes, well, what if you could, you know, make as much money as you want on your own terms? And, you know, it was the first MLM pitch I've ever heard in my life. And so I kind of caught the bug. there and from there you know it was really about like oh shoot well if I was my own boss and I did have my own business then like I could go on auditions whenever I want I don't have to like call Tony be like can you cover my shift um and you know hope Tony does so yeah that that was kind of like

it was a slow burn as a slow start you know I started with the the whole MLM thing that didn't work out but eventually uh learn some skills and because I found myself, I was really drawn to technology. And when social media started blowing up, I actually took a job for a local nonprofit. And I was a youth director. And so my target audience were teenagers, you know, reach out to the local teenagers and, you know, build events for them where they can come, be safe, and have fun. And right then was when social media was at its peak. Facebook was like still cool for the teenagers, all the teenagers want to be on Facebook.

And so I was like, I need to learn how to use this to reach an audience. And that kind of led me down the rabbit hole of building an audience online, blogging, social media, and sat in a room with a guy named Michael Hyatt, who basically taught me everything I needed to know to get started. And before long, I started a blog. I didn't like the way my blog looked. So I learned web design. I taught myself web design how to build something that looks good. And then people were like, hey, you seem to know what you're talking about.

Could you come consult our business and teach us how to use social? media to reach our audience and hey, by the way, who built your website? It looks really good. Oh, I did that. Oh, could you build ours too maybe and make ours look a little bit better? And before long I had a marketing agency and was consulting companies big and small and building websites and driving traffic to them through social media and then SEO as SEO became more popular.

But found out real quick that Sean, I am not good at clients. have the burden of perfectionism. And so I'm that guy that sits there and tries to figure out what color and how round the button should be for an hour and a half. And that doesn't really scale well. So eventually I had this thought that maybe client work isn't the best for me and how I'm built. I love helping people, but what if I could build digital products where I can put all my

perfectionism into that one thing and help hundreds of thousands of people? and that kind of is where I started on digital products. And so it was never a, to go all the way back to where we started, it was never a, I'm giving up acting because apparently I'm not what Hollywood is looking for. It was more or less like, I've got to make ends meet. And while I'm trying to figure life and career out, maybe I can make some decent money and got married along the way. So now all of a sudden I had to support a wife.

and soon after that, a child. And so it was like acting just slowly sort of got pushed back and back and back to the back burner. But again, in my mind, I'm going as an entrepreneur, I have freedom. Or at least that's what I'm trying to create is freedom. And maybe one day I'll pick it back up again when all my businesses are running smoothly without me. That's funny because on the hockey side, they say if you roughly, if you ever want to win the Stanley Cup, never touch it. right you're just what there's supposed to be the curse right so i've never touched stanley cup i've been in multiple places where it's been and people have touched it i'm like i'm not touching i'm not

talking i'm not there's still hope there's still hope well you're doing the same thing with acting i'm like well who's to say i don't become i don't know elan musk in a trillionaire or somewhere down the line become some part of management i don't even know yeah i can win the stanley cup and i'm like i'm not i'm not jinxing myself there's still that opportunity somewhere down the line that's funny that you're taking the same tact with being an actor in hollywood yeah okay you mentioned when you you were go um you're you're you're starting to you know you're trying to figure out how to build an audience your your clients are youth you're like trying to figure that out and you sat in a room and forgive me you said the name and i forgot the name michael

hiett and he teaches you everything you needed to know what did you teach you yeah so if for those who don't know who Michael Hyatt is back in 2011, 2010, 11, 12, you know, when blogging was sort of in its heyday, his blog was like the one of the most popular blogs in the world. And Michael Hyatt, former CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers, one of the largest Christian book publishers in the world. He ended up going on, this was like I was at a conference where he was speaking. And so I was listening to him and he was basically outlining what would eventually be his book platform. He wrote a book called Platform all about online marketing, social media, and building an audience online. And so, yeah, that's, that was really my catalyst. Before he wrote that book, he basically

shared the thesis for it and taught us in that little place. And yeah, it just made sense to me. It just clicked. I was like, I like technology. I'm an extrovert. So like social media is the best thing ever for me because I get to interact with people. So yeah, that was really the catalyst for it. When you fast forward to now, what do most entrepreneurs miss then when they're building out, you know, let's say let's stick to podcasts because you're sitting talking to a guy who runs a full-time podcast. This is what I do for a living now. So what is it that most people, when they're getting into something like this, overlook or just don't realize from your your from your side of things? Well, I think it's always going to take longer than you want it to

take and it's always going to be harder than you want it to be. But ultimately, I think that's what shapes us into who we're supposed to be. You know, if I look at me back when I first started my first real business as a marketing consultant, I mean, I was just kind of winging it and had no idea what I was doing. And I mean, I didn't know how to get the, you know, the franchise tax board stuff squared away, right? I was just like, people ask if they can, if I could do something for them and they gave me money and I just took the money. And so like all of the logistics and stuff, I just kind of figured out as I went. And it wasn't like overnight success. It was a long, hard grind. And, you know, I learned to refine my craft, but also I learned how to take the right

jobs and not follow the path of things that were distracting and things that were not in my wheelhouse. So I think if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you have to not get in it for the quick money. Because a lot of people think, oh, I'm just going to be my own boss and make all this money. And odds are that's not going to happen because there's probably a handful of things you need to learn about how to manage yourself, how to manage your time, and be. disciplined with your time before you can actually start, you know, making a living that will afford you some of the more, you know, incredible freedoms that come with entrepreneurship. Yeah.

One of the things that, you know, I don't play this game very often, Dustin, but when I do, I chuckle because I'm like, you know, if I could sit back and go back and talk to a younger Sean when he was still working in the oil field before he ever got into being an entrepreneur, like full time, you know, running your own business, entrepreneurial, all the things. I don't think I would have understood how hard I work now. Yeah. Like, did I just, you know, you're like managing your time? I'm like.

Yeah. I remember very early on thinking I'd have my feet up on the couch every afternoon and I just sit there and just bask in freedom. And that, that's not a different type of freedom. But I mean, uh, certainly on this side, I work harder than I ever have. Yeah. Trying to continue to do what I'm doing. than I ever did in any previous career. And it's not that I was a slacker in my previous careers.

It's just completely different. I think I heard it once said, I'm probably going to screw this quote up, but like, you know, entrepreneurs, they're so smart that they'll quit a 40 hour a week job to work 80 hours a week for themselves. That's so true, very true.

But I think the other thing, Sean, is like, so discipline and flexibility, I think are the two key words that I think of when I think of why I am where I am, not that I'm, you know, a billionaire or a mega-millionaire or anything, but I think where I'm at right now in life and my career, I have it made. I feel very, very blessed to be where I am. I'm still working very hard, but over the decades now that I've been an entrepreneur, I've learned this, the art of discipline and flexibility.

So discipline in terms of I clock in at 8 a.m. I treat it just like it's a job. You know, I'm at my desk at a.m. every single morning. I walk my kids to school. And then I walk home, sit down and have my coffee. And I'm at work. And I'm at work typically till about three in the afternoon when I have to go pick up my kids from school. and then I come home.

I'll do a few more things, but by 3.30, 4 o'clock, I'm pretty much done for the day, and I'll, you know, check out playing a video game or something because, you know, I don't have a commute where I can detach from work. For me, video games is like how I detach my entrepreneur brain and stop it from spiraling out of control. Yes. Yeah. And that was, that was a hard thing to figure out because it's hard for us entrepreneurs to switch off, at least for me. Mentally, I just like, I'm always thinking about the business. So I needed

something that can fully just pull me out of it. And video games ended up being the thing. And so I'll play a video game, then go have dinner with my family. I don't even look at my phone. Truthfully, most times, I barely look at my phone after dinner before bed. I just have found that discipline of turning things off and really clocking in and clocking out from my. my business. And despite that, the business has thrived. I mean, my energy throughout the day, you know, I'm not going through cycles of burnout like I used to. So I've learned this discipline of, you know, not burning myself out, not working so hard that it's unsustainable. I just had a friend who had a very traumatic health episode because he was so stressed out. He was working so

hard. I don't ever want to put myself in that position for my family to be robbed of, of, you know, their husband and dad. So I've learned that discipline, but at the same time, flexibility, right? So sometimes emergencies come up. Sometimes something breaks and you need to go fix it or, you know, something, I need your immediate attention and it can't wait. And so you have to have that flexibility. And even not from just like a, you know, a crisis standpoint, but from a, you know, a crisis standpoint, but from a culture and just like what's happening in the world's standpoint, right? So I started building websites and growing people's social media and SEO. But once I saw what AI was possible, what AI was doing in the world and this paradigm that was about to shift, I realized everything's about to

change and I need to now switch gears. I need to understand this technology, figure out, exactly how to leverage it and then teach other people and give other people the tools to leverage it too so nobody's left behind because in my mind when the internet came online it was a paradigm shift that the culture has never seen before you know businesses were doing business for centuries before the internet and they had a way of doing things and when that internet came along and google came along and change the whole way business is done, some businesses got wiped out. Why? Because they weren't flexible. They weren't ready to take on this new technology and change directions. And so I saw that coming with AI. And I thought, I'm going to build a tool. I'm going to find a way to

make sure that nobody's left behind. And that meant a dramatic shift in my, and what I was doing. I was building digital products at the time, but I was still doing like basically social media marketing and building websites. And I just, I saw that shift coming and I knew I had to pivot. And here we are today, three years later after, you know, Magi's debut back in March of 2023. And it's all I live and breathe now. But four years ago, it was completely different. And if I hadn't been flexible, then I probably would have got left behind. I'd still be trying to catch up like everybody else. Well, for those of us that are trying to catch up, right?

You're watching AI and you're seeing all the things come out about it. Walk me through it. You know, whether it's magic or it's just AI in general, you know, if you're sitting there running, I don't care what business you're running, you can pick one if you want, Dustin, but like in general, if you're sitting there staring at AI and you understood everything you just said, like when the internet came around, nobody had seen that before. And it completely changed the game. Now you watch AI and how quickly everyone's adopting it and trying to figure it out and how I think you can see how this is going to flip the Apple card all over again.

Yeah. I don't know. Walk me through it. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge paradigm shift. Right. So knowledge has now been democratized. Knowledge is at your fingertips.

any instruction you need, any walkthrough you need, any materials you need, anything written, any image you need, it can simply be brought into existence or pulled into your desired format just with your fingers or even with your voice. You can just talk it into existence. And that to me was like kind of the magic of AI. back when ChatGBTGBT first debuted November 2020. The first time I typed in there and it just gave me exactly what I wanted, it was magical. And I like to say, you know, there was like a Harry Potter element to it, right? You type some words and things happen.

So to me, it's a very magical thing. But now that I've kind of learned how it all works, it's not quite as magical. It's more, oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But for most people, you know, the unlock here is that you can now augment your abilities with AI to do better work and to do that better work faster than ever and more effectively than ever. I'm not one of those people who will sit there and tell you like AI is going to steal your job. You know, AI is going to replace us all. Nobody's going to have any jobs anymore. I think that's just absolutely ridiculous.

But I will say this, if AI doesn't replace you, somebody using AI will replace you. And you need to go learn this technology, go understand how to wield it. Because just like anything else, technologically, it's a tool. It's something that helps us do things better than we could before.

And so for the admin assistant, it's a great way to accelerate some of those mundane tasks, right? For the marketers and for the business owners, it's a way to re-rewarden assistant, rewrite some of your marketing copy or rethink some of your business strategies with a brain that is not necessarily a brain, but an intelligence replicator or imitator that will help you think through things a little bit better, a little bit more effectively. Because the thing with AI is it's trained on literally all the information.

It has all the Internet put into its computing power. to help you gain perspective for whatever it is you're working on and to help you accomplish things like copywriting or writing that email or auditing, you know, a massive inventory. There's a lot of just really cool things that unlocks that will help us to, again, augment our own abilities and accomplish things better, faster, more effectively. When you say you should go learn how to wield it, walk me through that. If you're like, okay, where should I go to learn how to yield it? Or wield it, not yield it.

Well, there are lots of really great YouTube channels. My company, Magi, we have put a huge emphasis on teaching and training because, again, you know, sort of our heart is nobody left behind. And so every single week, every Wednesday at 10 a.m., I go live and I teach something about AI, something practical, something pragmatic, not a bunch of theory, not a bunch of high level, make me sound smart kind of stuff. I like to talk to the average person and say, here's one thing you can do today in your job that will help you get things done better, faster, more effectively. And so I regularly teach that. Anybody who's a Magi subscriber gets that teaching every single week for free. We have a library of 70, oh gosh, maybe 80 different recordings now that we've done over the last couple of years. But the information's out there.

But even if you don't, even if you don't go search YouTube or go sign up for our AI Academy and go to a learning session, I like to tell people, remember when Google came online and nobody really knew what they were going to use Google for because they've got the yellow pages over here and like I know where to find stuff. And I've got maps over here. And, you know, what was everybody Googling at first? It was Charlie bit my finger. You remember that video? The first viral YouTube video, that's what people were Googling at the time.

But as you started to use Google, all of a sudden the gears started turning, the lightbulbs started turning. You started to realize, oh, well, maybe I can use Google to find this. Or maybe I can use Google to look up this. or and as you use the thing you your brain starts to make connections and understands what it can use that thing for so for most people the best thing you can do to learn is just go straight just go straight to whether that's chat GPT or clod or gemini or magi and just use it type in a request say i need help with figuring out these numbers on the latest uh you know the latest uh

business number. I don't know what you're looking up. Um, but you see what it says. See what it says. You know, I need to write a I need to write a blog post about turtles. Okay. Then back me up then. Magi. Walk me through what you've built. Yeah. So here's what I saw. Sean, when I when I first started using chat GPT, I dove in head first. I was like, I need to learn all this. I need to apply it to my business and to my clients that I started taking on. And what I realized, having had some software businesses before that and knowing that people are real tired of having to have way too many subscriptions pulling from their wallet every single month, I saw all these AI tools popping up. You got chat GPT over here and they got a $20 plan if you want to get more out of it. And then its competitor, Claude came up and you need to spend another $20 over there.

And then you've got Gemini and you can get the free stuff. but if you pay $20 a month, you get the better stuff. And then you've got the image generators over here. And if you pay $30 a month, you can get all the images. And if you pay another $20 a month, you can get video generators. And it was like the whole AI landscape was starting to fracture all over the place. Competition is great. Love competition, right?

It's great for the marketplace. But it really sucks for the person who's like, I want to learn how to use it. But in order to like understand it all, I have to sign up over here. and then I have to go sign up over here and then I have to sign up over there. And I have to have 15 different accounts, 10 different subscriptions. And it's costing me $200 a month. So what I saw was an opportunity to what if we could put everything in one place for people? That way they don't have to learn multiple apps.

They don't have to worry about what's the next thing that just came out. Now I have to go sign it for that. What if we could put it all in one place for them? So Magi is an all in one AI platform. So you sign up for Magi and you get chat GPT. You get Claude. You get Gemini. You get the image generators.

You get the video generators. All of them, top tier models, premium models that you would pay $20 a month each for. You get them all in one subscription and in one interface. You don't have to relearn every time something changes. And whenever a new model is released, Magi gets it and it puts it right there for you to select from. I'm going to ask a dumb question. I feel like this is going to be a dumb one. But you say you rattle off all the different ones, right?

Champ D, T, Claude, Gemini, et cetera, et cetera. You never say GROC. GROC is one of them as well. I just use X, you know, relatively on the regular. Actually, I know I do. That's probably out of all the social media, that's where I go. And I assume that's where a lot of my audience goes, but you never bring in GROC in there. Do you put GROC as a lesser to all the other ones?

Well, no, I actually like GROC for very specific types of tasks. And that's a whole other question that I naturally will most likely come up. Which one's the best one? Well, they all have broken. No, I'm not so worried about which one's the best one. Right. But I am curious, you know, it's not in the list of, you know, you list them off and Grock's not sitting there. So for the average user, the average person, you know, that's who I typically try to talk to.

I love the high-tech people. I love the techie. I'm a techie person myself. I have a lot of knowledge. But again, our mission is nobody left behind. That means I need to talk to the Paddy's of the world. Patty is a woman I met at a conference a couple years ago and just got to see her again a few months back when I spoke in Nashville. Patty's been a journalist for 40 years.

And so she's been in the game a long time and she thought for sure AI was going to take her job and she didn't know where to start. It was intimidating to her and she didn't understand all the language. And so when I speak about AI things, I try to whittle it down to the most recognizable things and most understandable things. And unfortunately, it really is unfortunate to me, most people don't understand that GROC is a model or know that it's like up there with chat GPT in some ways better than chat GPT. Personally, I love the model. But when I talk to normal people and I say Grog, they're like, what? is grok. I don't understand that.

It typically just doesn't make the cut. Fair enough. Yeah, anyways. I think they're on their way to becoming, you know, up there with the top tier. But I would say right now, everybody knows chat GPT. A few less people know Claude, which to me is the best of all of them. And then about as many people know Gemini, but most people just think it's Google. they don't maybe call it by the name Gemini. So right now it's just everybody thinks chat GPT is AI.

Well, then I'm going to, you brought up your favorite one's Claude. Why is Claude your favorite? That's a great question. On Magi, wait a second, on your platform, you get access to Claude. Yes. Yeah, Magi gives you access to all of them. I think we have 50 plus models at this point. And you can choose.

You can just pick the one you want for any given task, You can switch them out. And I keep saying it wrong. It's Magi. Magi, yeah. Not magic. Yeah, like the wise men of old. Yes, Magi.

Yes. Okay. Carry on. Sorry, my apologies. So I experiment constantly with these models, right? A new model comes out and I'm running it through the ringer of tests that I have. But for me, for the last, I would say almost three years now, maybe two and a half years. Claude has been my go-to because it always writes the best copy.

And I do a lot of human-facing copy. I use AI to help me write things for humans to consume. Landing page copy, documentation, support articles, things that I want people to read. And I have found Claude just does it better. It just does it way better than ChatGPT. You know, people talk a lot about, you know, oh, that sounds like AI was, AI wrote it. Odds are it was written by chat GPT and not Claude. Because Claude is just so much better at writing.

Now, what I will say about Claude is it tends to be less creative than chat GPT. And here's my theory on why, for those who are interested in the more technical side. When opening I have started, had a bunch of, you know, engineers and stuff that work for them. and they all had a vision. And at some point, that the vision kind of deviated. And some of the engineers there went, I don't like where this is going. We don't feel like you're being as safe and secure

as we believe AI should be engineered and built. So we're going to leave, and we're going to go start this other company. We're going to call it Anthropic. So Anthropic was actually started by ex-open AI engineers who weren't comfortable with, the level of safety and security in which the open Aio is building their AI models. So what you have in Claude is more conservative is the wrong word because it has political notes. But when I say conservative, I mean it's a little bit more safely built.

They are a little bit more obsessed with accuracy. They're a little bit more obsessed with guardrails and making sure people can't do bad things with it. And so that, those sort of guardrails have kept it, I think, again, this is my theory, have kept it a little less creative. It's a little less likely to go outside the box thinking because it wants to be safe, secure, and accurate. Whereas chat, GPT, a little less guardrails, not that they're, I don't believe that they are reckless in how they build models, but they're just a little looser on their guardrails. And so that leads, in my experience, to a more creative model. It comes up with ideas that are a little more outside the box, a little more outside the norm, a little more interesting.

So with Claude, you might have ideas that are a little more stale, not quite as exciting, but a way better copywriter, way better at writing human language, whereas chat GPT, a lot more creative, but when it writes copy, it sounds kind of generic. If you were sales pitchers are wrong, but that's what I come to for a podcaster, right? I sit here. I'm like, okay, you're like, here's what AI could do for you.

What would be like, you're like here, one, two, three, I don't know, maybe you got 50. What pops to mind for you? You're like, you should be really looking at whether it's Claude or on and on and on. right like when you go like these are the things it can do yeah maybe maybe that's maybe in talking to me about it as a podcaster somebody will be sitting there going oh i hadn't thought about that because i could adjust that to whatever they do yeah so i'm not a podcaster but i have a lot of friends who are and actually i'm a part of a weekly business mastermind where essentially two thirds of the people in there are podcasters and so all of them are big magi fans and they

give me their ideas constantly so one of the things i hear people are using it for and we actually have podcast production agencies using Magi as well for this. So you record an episode, right? You send it to your editor. Editor chops it up, make sure that it's all, you know, tight, tightly packaged. You get an MP4 at the end. Drop that MP4 into an AI model that can interpret the audio and have it write all of the extra copy or the extra content that you typically tend to publish. I'm assuming you're publishing your podcast notes somewhere. right? Maybe writing a blog post out of it as you should, if you are SEO interested in having SEO work for you. So you turn that content into a blog post. Maybe you create several different

social media snippets to share out about the podcast to promote it. Right? You have all these promotional materials. Maybe you have some email blasts that you send out to promote the podcast. And so once you finish that recording, you can send that recording to an AI model and say, hey, here's what I need to publish this podcast and to promote it across all my channels. I need social content. I need blog posts. I need show notes. I need blah, blah, blah, blah. Dictate out everything that you need to produce from this one episode and the AI can do it for you. It can write the social content. It can write the blog post. It can write the show notes for you based on that one audio clip. Saving you potentially 10 hours, 12 hours maybe of work, of having to do it all manually yourself.

there were probably tools in the past that have kind of done this fairly well, but with AI, it's a thousand times better than any tools we've ever had to produce these assets based on one podcast episode. On top of that, coming up with episode ideas, yours is more of an interview style, right? So maybe, you know, it's not necessary for years particularly, but if you have sort of an episodic, non-interview style, you know, maybe you need to come up with topics. and you can have AI brainstorm with you for topics or even for interviews. You know, you tell AI, my guest is Dustin W. Stout, founder of Magi, go research everything about him,

and help me to come up with 20 different questions to ask him that will really dig deep into who he is as a founder and visionary and handsome fella. The AI can help you do that. It helps you cut down research time and come up with some ideas that you may not have thought of. yourself. You'll have to forgive me because I'm like, you know what? I'm like, no, no, I'm like, I'm literally putting it into Grock right now. I'm like, I wonder what question AI says I should ask you. I'm kind of curious, right? I've got to give you some good ones. In fairness, I've done that before, but I'm like, yeah, it kind of feels weird that AI's dictating what I should ask, although the thing that I like about it is it spurs on ideas. Right. Well, here's the thing.

So let me give you this, because that's a hesitation that a lot of people feel. And I totally get it. But let me put it to you this way. So when I was doing marketing consulting, people would hire me as their ghostwriter. You know, authors, people who have written books would hire me to write their social content, right? Because they don't have time. They don't have energy. Now, I'm writing on their behalf.

What I've done is I've gone and I've researched, you know, I've read their books, I've understood their voice, their tone, their audience. I learn everything I can about them. and I go write a bunch of tweets for them, right? And I don't just publish them. The author looks at them. He has to approve them, right? So he's going through.

He says, yeah, that matches. No, this doesn't work. Throw that one out. Add something else. You know, he's giving me feedback when needed. Eventually, I get it to where I could write it perfectly every time. And he just scans and goes, yep, all good. Now, that goes out under his name.

I wrote it as the ghostwriter. People don't have a problem with that, right? because he's put his stamp of approval on it. You know, when you're in a business and people go out and say the things that they have or do the things that they have sort of done figured out for your business, maybe a procedure or they've put on an event, right? They might have done the work, but you've put your seal of approval on it because you are the business owner.

Your reputation is on the line. That's how I look at AI work. Now, it might have given me a few ideas. It may have written the majority of the content. But the prompt came from my lips or it came from my fingers. It came from my ideas that spurred it, that prompted it to do what it did. And then I read through it responsibly. This is our role in this, right?

We can't leave our critical thinking at the door. We have to evaluate. And when we look at everything the AI writes for us or produces for us, we go, that's good, that's good. Change this because you can have to have. have a conversation with AI. I don't like that. Change this. You can have that conversation.

It gets smarter as you do that. But by the time you send it off because you've approved it, it's now your work because you have taken the time to critically. One of the things I use AI for is to write speeches. I don't love it. I don't love everything it does. Actually, it says a lot of dumb things in there. And I got to, I'm like, oh, that is terrible.

Well, but using the wrong app. That's all. Is that what it is? Do you think that? that's what it is. Well, there's a lot to it. There's, there's a lot to really making sure that AI sounds like you, thinks like you, produces things the way that, uh, you want them produced. Um, it takes a little bit of, uh, energy. So with, I don't know if I know the answer that. With, with, whether it's Brock, Claude, chat, G, p, chat, chat GPT, don't know why I can't

spit that out, Gemini, et cetera. Can you put in, let's say you have, like, is there a profile, I'm just thinking aloud here because I actually don't need any answer this. Is there like a profile where you're like, this is who I am? This is how I think. Answer the questions this way. Yeah. And then it starts screwing up. You're like, no, no, no.

I got to change this about who I am. And you can have a, I don't know, an open thread of answering questions that way. Well, here's the way that you want to go about it. So, and this is, I love telling this story because it just, well, let me just tell it. So when, when Magi was first created, I did my, research and I understood how is it that these AI models are, how are they programmed to respond? How are they responding? What is the underlying code that gets processed, right? And so what I found is you go in a chat GPT, you send a prompt. But before you send that first prompt, the AI has

already been given a set of instructions. It's been given a prompt that dictates how it responds to you. And so you might have heard some people say, well, when you you go on to chat, GPT, say, you know, act as, you know, a 30-year copywriting veteran. And you have all these years of experience and you're really good at sales copywriting, right? You kind of give it this role. And then it actually changes the results. It can you get different results when you tell it to act as a certain thing. But what I realized is there's a prompt before your prompt.

The technically it's it's either called the system prompt or the development. developer prompt where it's given a personality. So your AI has a personality that it's been given, almost like an instruction of how it operates. And if you can change that system prompt, you can heavily influence how it actually behaves and how it responds and the types of outputs that it does. And so from day one in Magi, we had something we called personas.

It was a way to give the AI a different personality out of the gate. Before the first prompt is sent, it's already prepped and primed to be exactly that personality that you needed to be, whether that's your voice in tone or whether that's a copywriter, whether that's a strategist, whether that's a business advisor or an accountant or a lawyer. You can give it this role at the system level. And it's, I mean, it's 10, 20 times better content than if you're to just try and prompt it in a generic way. So we had this concept of personas day one, March 31st, 2023, and it took chat GPT, I think a year and a half to finally come out with what they call GPs or custom GPs. And it was the same exact concept. You give the AI this

system prompt instruction to shape its personality and shape its output, and you get significantly better results. And now, what was it, like six months ago, Claude finally came out with what they call skills. Very different approach to the same concept. In fact, we're going to start adopting it here very soon because it's a little more nuanced, it allows for some more complicated things. But essentially, you get to shape it. Now, in most chat apps like GROC or chat GPT, if you're just using straight chat GPT, you don't get to shape that personality. You just have to kind of prompt it away. and the only way to get it to sort of learn how to speak like you is through that long conversation, which is not a good idea because most people don't realize this, but AI has a very short memory.

And when I say short, most modern models can only remember about 150,000 words before they start forgetting things. They just don't have the processing power. It's almost like, you know, if you think about a, we used to have thumb drives. I don't know if people still use those. Yes. For our cameras, right? And you fill it with so many photos. And all of a sudden, you can't fill it anymore.

You need to remove some of the photos to fit more on. AI works just like that. And in the chat that you are having with chat GPT, at a certain point, it's going to be filled with so many messages that it can't process them all. So it has to remove them, remove the earlier message from the conversation. So it will, in a sense, forget things. And so if you're relying on one conversation, for it to learn your personality and to learn your voice, eventually it's going to start forgetting.

So that's not the way to the most optimal way to do it. The most optimal way to get it to write the way that you wanted to write or output the way that you wanted to output is to build a persona or to build a custom GPT or to build a skill. I think Gemini called them gems. But it was a concept we had at Magi a year and a half before everybody else. here's um i chuckled because i you know now i'm like now i'm really curious what crock wants to ask dust and stone right and i'm like i wonder what it's going to ask you okay i've never tried this before i mean in fairness i've tried you know i've worked i've messed around with it but never quite like hey what five questions would you ask so here's here's your here's your first question

on resilience and the turning point you've openly shared uh roughly four years of building products that didn't gain traction, multiple pivots, and you're quitting before Magi was founded, or found its footing and hit up one million in lifetime sales. You kept going during that period and what was the specific, what kept you going? Man, I could try and read, couldn't I? What kept you going? Reading is hard. Reading is hard. What kept you going during that period? And what was the specific mindset or strategic shift that made the difference when you started focusing on Madri. Yeah.

So what Grock picked up on there was I've spoken a lot about the mental health journey of an entrepreneur and how prior to starting Magi was probably the four most difficult years of my life. My wife was going through some very serious health issues. I exited my first software company that was starting to fail because the two partners I started with, let's just say we were growing apart, exited that. tried to build two other startups and they both failed miserably. I was in probably the darkest season of my life.

I was battling depression, trying to raise three kids, trying to build businesses that were failing. We basically wasted, I guess, something like $65,000 trying to get these two startups off the ground. And I was just failing miserably. And every single day I woke up just felt like another failure. And I was irritable all the time. So I was like short with my kids and short with my wife while she's also trying to recover from a major health battle and man, it was just so hard and

Depression was my daily reality. I also had a friend who took his own life during this time and many many occasions I would wake up praying that God would take me because I didn't think I had anything left to give and so to Grock's question, how did I get through? that while the only reason I got through it was my faith in Jesus Christ. My wife daily reminded me that if God still has me here, he's still got a plan for me. And that was the only thing that kept me going through many, many psychological breakdowns that I had in that season. I remember laying on the kitchen floor, just bawling my eyes out in a puddle of my own tears and snot, screaming just, just, because I mentally was broken. My kids going, is daddy okay? Is he going to be okay? My wife, you know, the rock that she is, the faithful woman that she is, just she believed in me when I

didn't believe in myself. And she constantly reminded me that God loves you, no matter what. And if he still has you here, he still got a plan for you. And so I had no choice. I had to provide for this family. So I had to put one foot in front of the other. And, And some days it looked like just being in front of my computer and maybe not accomplishing anything, but I showed up. And eventually caught this idea, started playing with ChatGPT, had this vision that I truly believe was God going, here I'm going to show you what's going to happen. And I saw it was going to happen with this technology. And I instantly had a new mission.

and I didn't know how he was going to build it. I'm not, you know, people think I've started a lot of software companies, think, oh, you know, he must be like a software developer. I'm not a software developer. I know enough code to be dangerous, but I'm actually not that great at writing code. What I'm really good at is product ideas, customer experiences, teaching people how to use things, making things easy to use for people. And so I've always had to leverage developers, higher developers, to help me build.

these things. But, you know, when you have nothing, when you have no resources, no money, worried about paying your mortgage next month, you'll learn to do what it takes. And so I was able to learn what I needed to learn to build the first version of Magi, the minimum viable product, that worked on a bunch of no-code tools before AI could code, mind you. You know, people today have it way easier that I did three years ago trying to use these no-code tool platforms. But, yeah, it was a rough time, but it was a time that really showed me that even at my darkest, even at my lowest, that hope still remains and just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

You actually were praying for God to take you? I was. Every day. Every day I would pray for God to take me home because I just didn't see any, any, I saw no value in my own efforts. I just did not believe that I had anything left to give. And so I said, God, please just take me home. I want to go home.

How important is it to have a good woman standing behind you? It is the most important. You know, I really lucked out. I mean, it's the grace of God that put this woman in my life. She is definitely a 10. And I am maybe a five on a good day. I really married up and she loves the Lord and make sure that, you know, she reminds me when I need to be reminded that that God is good all the time. He certainly is.

I'm going to keep on, I'm like, this is interesting because, you know, it's funny. The first, I look at the time and I'm like, first like 40 minutes of this, been a nice easy chat. The first question, chat, or sorry, Grock throws at you, went deep, real fast. Yeah, yeah. Like, very interesting. Okay, here's the second one.

Well, now I'm very curious. On building in public and transparency, you've built Magi very publicly, documenting both the wins and the hard lessons on your blog and social channels. How has this transparent approach shaped product decisions, customer relationships, team culture, or even your own growth,

as a founder. Well, there's the positive and the negative, right? So the only way that I was able to launch Magi to any success was because for the last 10 years, I'd had a successful blog and I was building an email list and I was building a social media following. And at that point, it'd kind of fallen off a bit. But I thought to myself, like, I don't feel confident in my ability to market it anymore just because of all the failure and just had no confidence left. But I thought, well, the least I can do is just kind of share what I'm building and talk about what I'm building and maybe talk about why I'm building it and why I think I need to build it. So that building in public, tweeting about new features that I'm building, tweeting about, you know, why I did this,

tweeting about what I learned when I was building this, it helped me to think out loud and be more intentional about what I was building, but I was also getting constant feedback. People would reply. People would say, oh, did you think about this? Oh, no, I didn't think about that. And so building in public allowed me an open dialogue in how to build and shape the product and make some decisions that I probably wouldn't have made on my own. And I think there were more than a few occasions. I can't remember specifically what they were. But I do remember going, oh, you know what, I'm not going to do the thing I thought I wanted to do. I'm going to do what that person said instead because that makes a lot more sense.

So that building in public really did help shape the product. And it continues to. Now, the problem, sort of the con of building in public is people who want to steal what you're doing can also see what you're building. And the competitors have popped up over the years and blatantly stole things that I openly shared Some of them even stole graphics off our website and put them on their website, just slap their logo over top of ours. So there is that aspect. But in my philosophy is, look, if all they're doing is stealing from you, they're always

going to be one or two steps behind. So just keep innovating. Just keep building. So I think it's been extremely helpful. And that transparency, that vulnerability, the fact that I don't just share the wind, I also share the losses has had a lot of people come to me and say, you know, I really appreciate you, being open about your mental health struggles. And I really appreciate you showing that you built something and it failed because I'm in the middle of that season right now. And it's just really

encouraging to see somebody else made it through. And so that's been really, really, I guess, gratifying and fulfilling to see that, you know, the reason for me sharing those is exactly that. and it seems to be helping some people. It's funny. I, like, as you're talking, I'm like, oh, I do, like, I don't know all the marketing terms. You know, so like, you're tired. I'm like, yeah, like, so one of the things we just tried. And I enjoyed it so much.

I did it twice because of the feedback. So the first thing is I, for probably five years, started talking more into politics, the way, culture, chio-politics, etc. or 2021. And you can imagine what was going on in Canada in 2021. World was falling apart. Yeah. COVID lockdowns, all the things. And so one of the ways I wanted to make sure that if people were really upset with me, that they could get a hold of me and tell me their thoughts, I gave up my phone number. I've done it for five straight years. People think I'm nuts. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, some people call and they don't answer. Sometimes I pick up the phone and I get blasted. Sometimes I pick up the

phone. People love what you're doing. It's all the mix. I get texts. I get texts. all the time, but it gives a real good connection to the audience. And I talk about that lots. When you talk transparency, I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes complete sense to me because I want to be accessible. Yeah. The other one, we just tried this is I normally do all my ad reads at the start of a podcast, not in the middle.

I don't, I've never been, I hate it. I want a conversation as soon as you start, you get the conversation. But I've been getting a whole bunch of different people, but ask me why I just don't switch to it. and like have like, you know, 20 second, 30 second ads. So we tried it. And the feedback when you're talking about, you know, I'm being open with my idea and then I get feedback.

It was crazy. Well, it's still super cool to me because of the phone, people were texting absolutely hated it and like almost screaming into their phone texting and other people were like, I love this. This is way better. And so I started talking about it. Yeah. And then more people started to text me and I actually brought up some really good ideas

that I would have never ever thought. I thought by my own. Yeah. Because I just wouldn't have thought about it from that angle because I'm not the person listening to the show, right? And I found that very, you used the word gratifying. That's a good word. And I would also just say like very informative.

Like you're bringing everybody in on the project instead of just being like, I'm a genius and I know what to do. Right. And here's the thing with that. You realize that by simply by articulating your thought process, people tend to be more positive about it, right? People hate change. They absolutely hate change. Me, I'm a weirdo. I love change. Like, I live for change. Good change, obviously. Not all changes. Good. But some people, you know, something changes, a button moves, you know, color change, font change. Any change, people,

they lock up and they're like, you know, they lose that familiarity and it sort of betrays their patterns. So when you're explaining changes, when you take the time to say, I'm thinking through this change. And here's why I'm thinking through this change. It eases that transition for the people who really struggle with change. And they still may not like the change. They still may not agree with the thought process, but they tend to appreciate the thought process.

Or in many cases that I've seen, people go, oh, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. And I probably would have said no before, but because you explained it like that, it totally makes sense and I'm okay with that change. Well, I would have not. never of all the things I've done on the podcast I bring the audience's feedback in lots because

of the phone right they text me their thoughts I'm like oh they they give you guest suggestions like tons they have a ton of control of where the show goes whether they realize it or not right because I interact with them so much when it comes to ads I've been very stubborn because of my own thoughts I don't like a show where there's 18 ads it just drives me nuts yeah and And then a couple different people started text about it. And we started discussing back and forth my thoughts. And then they started adding anyways. So then you, you, screw it.

We'll try it once. What's the worst thing that's going to happen? You know, I've been here for a thousand episodes. I don't think one show of ad breeds where they're in the middle is going to destroy it. Well, no, actually, it might have been one of the funest things I've done in like the last six months because everybody started texting right away. That's awesome. Good and bad. It was, it was just fun.

It was just fun to interact with. with people. If folks, if you don't realize this, I love interacting with you. It's a ton of fun on this end. So I love when they text, especially when they have such stark opinions, right? Yeah. Some were very pro. Some are like, you could just tell.

Mm-hmm. They're yelling into their phone dust. Like, this sucks. Who's the idiot who suggested this? And I'm like, this is great. I might need to do that for magic. I have a phone line where people can just send their grabs because I'm on the same way. I love feedback.

I like good feedback, but I love negative feedback. Weird as that sounds. Like, I love when somebody tells me my baby's ugly because, you know, not my literal babies, but you know, my digital babies, because you can't do much with positive feedback. It makes you feel good, right? Oh, you imagine it's the best. You're the best. Yeah.

Okay. Well, what did I approve? Nothing. It's great. But when somebody's like, this feature is broken and I. hate it. I'm like, oh, okay, we could go fix something and make something better. I, you know, I constantly want to make it better. You can't make something better if you think it's already perfect. So I love the negative feedback. I love, you know, the constructive criticism.

Well, the negative feedback sucks because you want positive feedback. But negative feedback forces you to think about something that you probably wouldn't normally think about. And usually comes out of that, when you come out of that, you have a good idea. Or something new to try that can spur on to better ideas. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are the, you know, the negative feedbacks that are just like, you're stupid and I hate your product. Yeah, but in fairness, those people don't text.

From my standpoint, everybody on this side, in fairness, folks, maybe I'm going to drinks myself here. But like, most of the haters don't have the guts to text me. or to call me up. In the middle of COVID, that is one case like that, right there and then, I got a lot of,

there was some tough days in there. There was a lot of days where I didn't want to answer the phone and I put it on and yelled out. Those were tough days. Those were tough days. But these days, the audience that has stayed along

are way more constructive. Even when they don't like something you've done or you're talking about, they actually explain it that way. You're like, I can, I can appreciate that. I can really appreciate that. That's cool. Let's go work on that, right?

Like, to me, that's what the phone line's done. And all the haters that say things on social media in particular, they register less than a percentage in my brain because it's like, I can't even tell if they're a bot, Dustin. Right, yeah. You know, like, you know, how many of them are found a way to game AI so that it, that it, all it does is attack people. Probably that's out there, would it not?

That is out there. Yeah, I can tell you for certain. That is out there. Now, before I let you out of here, sorry, I've been enjoying the conversation, obviously, folks. With a little prompt from AI in the middle of it, which was fun. Magi, if people, if you were sitting there talking to my audience

and you're going, you know, if you're going to use Claude, you're going to use grok, you're going to use whatever it is, is the sales pitch, listen, you're already paying 20 bucks for this. Come paid 20 bucks here and now you get everything? Or is it, I'm not, I don't know, meta or one of the giants and that's also a positive? I don't know. Your thoughts. Yeah, so again, I'm more of a divergent in terms of thinking processes.

There's not one problem that Magi set out to solve with AI. The most obvious problem is, of course, the multiple subscriptions into one. So, yeah, definitely if you're paying multiple AI subscriptions to Chad GBT and Claude and maybe some others, Maggi is probably a better use of your subscription money. You pay $20, you get all of them. That's the obvious one. The second one is we're also very privacy concerned. So a lot of these apps that you're using, they have, whether you know it or not,

there's a feature that you can turn on or off that says they can use all of your data, all of your prompts, all of your outputs to train their next model. And so if you put anything proprietary, anything sensitive into those chat apps, that could potentially come out in some AI answer in the future. Somebody can extract it in some way, possibly. We care very much about privacy. And so one of the problems we solved was that's not going to happen on our platform. ChatGPT, if you want our users to access your models through our platform,

you cannot train on any of their data. And every model that we integrate with has that same agreement. You cannot use our users prompts or outputs or uploaded documents or knowledge to train your models, not allowed. So the privacy aspect is very big for us. And then on top of that, it's the team aspect. If you do have team members, it's a much better collaborative environment. And so, you know, there's a lot of us.

other problems that we set out to solve, you know, making things more organized, having folders and easy to find stuff. But yeah, I mean, there was a lot of problems I saw with the AI space. And those are sort of the primary ones. But there's a lot of stuff I built in that really just makes it easier to use. If people were interested in it, where would you send them? Go to magi.com.m-a-i.com.com. That's where you can find out everything. Cool. Dust, I appreciate you giving me time today and hopping on. Appreciate it being here, man. Yeah. We should do it again. Yes, we should. Well, you're in California, aren't you?

I am, yes. You're not a part of the road trip this year. We're leaving for, we're leaving for a year here. Well, see, even. And we're going down the East Coast. So we're not even on the same. We're on the opposite side of you. See, even if you were going to pass through somewhere, I would not, not condone, stop. where I am. I actually live in Bakersfield, California, which is lovingly called the armpit of California. Number one, because it's extremely hot, like sweltering hot during the summer, so you don't want to be here. It's like 100 degrees plus every single day. And it stinks. There's a lot of livestock, a lot of farming going on here. And, you know, it's hot and it stinks. So it's the armpit of California and nobody wants to visit here.

Where are you heading to? The armpit of California. Yeah. Good old California armpit. That's. Appreciate you, hop-doddust. My pleasure.