Shaun Newman Podcast - #1088 - Gabby Koza

Episode Date: July 7, 2026

Gabby Koza is a 19-year-old clinical herbalism student at Heartwood Education, based in Alberta, Canada. Passionate about plant medicine, Gabby is dedicated to helping people identify and address the root causes of their health concerns using the power of herbs and holistic approaches.With a youthful energy and a growing expertise in clinical herbalism, Gabby brings a fresh, grounded perspective to natural wellness. Whether she’s diving into the science of medicinal plants or sharing practical ways to support the body’s innate healing ability, she’s on a mission to make herbalism accessible, effective, and empowering for everyday people.Health Canada Email:[e-mail]’s Instagram@conjuringcreekapothecary Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Longo. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre-Core. Hi, this is Frank Paredi. This is Daniel Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Tuesday to everyone. Day two now in the books of, well, I guess as I'm recording this, I can't say day two is totally in the books. But we're well on our way now into the end. S&P road trip.

You're going to start to hear more and more of these in-person conversations, which have been a ton of fun to do. And I've got to give a shout out to the Cozes for putting us up, having us park at their place, and treating us with very, I don't know, great hospitality. Is that the way you say it? I don't know. It was really good hospitality and very thankful to all the people, including the Cozes, as they continue to treat not only myself and my family with a lot of grace.

It's been super cool. So a shout out to them as we push on and head out. Now, if you're looking into precious metals, silver gold bull, Alberta's own, they've got their starting Rocky Mountain House. They have grown into a North American company, not country, company. And so when it comes to buying, selling, or storing precious metals, look down the show notes. You can text your email Graham for details around any questions you have.

have around precious metals in general. He's continued to say how cool the SMP listeners. All of you are. And if you haven't made that phone call, that text, that email, well, there's never a better time than today to start silvergoldbull.ca, silvergoldbull.com. And you can find them all out. You order to rate online and it ships right to your doorstep. Now, if you're back in my stomping grounds, Lloyd Minster for over 20 years, Rect Tech Power Products have been committed to excellence in the power sports industry. And when you roll into their showroom on the west side of Lloyd Minster, you're going to see just a little bit of everything.

They got, you know, right now, I guess the fishermen are out. And if you want a new boat, Lund fishing boats are sitting at Rectek. They got the Sedu promo running until July 31st. Customers get $500 off each CDU. and if they buy two, they get an additional $500 off each unit. So you want to have some fun outdoors. Rectech is about making that happen for you. You can visit them at RectTechpower Products.ca.

And, you know, like when it comes to, or sorry, dot com, don't say. dot CA, Rectpower Products.com. And if you're through Lloydminster, they're open Monday through Saturday, and you should really stop into their showroom and see what they have to offer there. Now, when it comes to the website, the shon-newmanpodcast.com, after I'd had mine stolen from me, became a Chinese gambling website, Carl and his team at Planetcom at Assured Park reached out to me and said, hey, how about we help you protect what is yours? And if you're concerned at all about online privacy, PlanetCom based at Assured Park,

they've been doing it for over 20 years now. They've been here to help, you know, not only give you secure, but a professional-looking website. They can help you with all the tech online storage and of course building stores to sell your merchandise and you can find them at planetcom.ca. On the trip, if you want to nominate somebody as we come rolling through, we're going to be in the Calgary area for the remainder of this week. And if you got somebody, I'm not saying I'm going to get to them, it'd be awesome to have suggestions a little further out, you know, as we venture further into Saskatchewan and Manitoba. But If you've got suggestions, you've got thoughts, please keep text.

And along the way, I've been enjoying all the people reaching out. It's been super cool. And I forgot to do this yesterday, and I feel terrible. So, Zane and Brian, the SMP road trip is powered by Zeebs, okay? Their family-owned, fine-tuned in Chesterner, Alberta. That's Zeebs Performance Restoration. They deliver expert, classic car restorations, custom exhausts, and performance upgrades that keep your ride reliable and roaring

and I can safely say the suburban we're roaring round in is certainly roaring. I think of it more as a per Mel probably thinks it's kind of loud. Regardless, unreal. Whether you're cruising the open road or restoring a legend, trust Zeeb's quality you can feel on every mile. Visit zeebs.ca today, folks, okay? Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a 19-year-old clinical herbalism student. Yeah, I'm talking about Gabby Coe.

So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Gabby Koza. And we got the video figured out, at least for today. We're trying to learn something different, so that's good. And we've got that kind of figured out for people wondering back home. Now, Gabby, first time on the show. Thanks for hopping on, doing this.

Thank you for having me. It was a very short notice decision, but I'm really really really. but I'm really excited. What people don't understand is I have talked to your parents about this. Well, this is going on. I just pulled it up because I was trying to figure out when this was. So March 23rd, 2023 on the podcast, you can find a substack and I will put this in the show notes. 16 going on 60 a young girl with a profound story and that is essentially over three years ago.

So three years ago I was talking to your parents going, Can I bring her on? And then we talked about, you know, the insanity coming out of COVID, maybe being a teenager, not the greatest time to come on. And so we kind of left that alone. But now that you're older, you're not Cynthia, you're Gabby. Yeah, I don't need any. Yes.

The pen name. So I wanted to talk with you for quite some time. I think very highly of your family. Obviously we're sitting here at the, what do you guys call? this the COSA is it the ranch is it the estate the title on the gate is the MERS the MERS named by the people who built the place it's Scottish for fertile land I believe which is very very fitting very fitting okay the MERS all right or as your kids call it the Cozies the Cozies yes before we get into anything too

heavy for the audience tell them a little bit about yourself because you know it's first time you're on the podcast I should give you the honor of at least explaining who you are because I just saying to my wife on the way here I just feel like I've got to know the Coza family so well I've become a house guest on my travels you know it's not every week or anything silly like that but it has become a regular occurrence that I get to stop in and visit with you all you've all come to my shows for you know going on essentially well three plus years and so tell the audience a little bit about yourself yeah okay my name's Gabby Coza I'm 19

and I am a clinical herbalism student. For those of you who are unfamiliar, clinical herbalism is essentially the practice of plant medicine using either plants themselves or products made from them to heal people and in a clinical setting. So that's what I'm studying to do. That's where my passion lies 100%. I guess what else do we need to know about me?

Well, I guess the thing that stuck out about me about you back a few years ago was it was you first I believe with a brother that was at one of the shows and you were the two youngest in the audience and I was sitting there going I can't believe there's kids come to watch this and then only one show did we ever do this I put out journals at every table it hopes somebody would write something and you know because I I've said this to the audience all the time, I don't know if they ever believe me or not, but like, there are some smart people in the audience. And at times, they almost censor themselves.

They kind of just like, ah, John gets to talk to a lot. It was just true. But at the same token, like lots of it is like absolute gold. It's just profound. And you'd written, you'd written, I don't even know, a story in one of the books. And so when Mel and I got home, because, you know, after a show, I probably looked like I've been hit by a train. It takes me a couple days to recover. And when we got home, I was going through the books.

And some people put some quotes in and everything. And then there was this story. And I had reached out because I'd even sent it back then to the Premier of Alberta because I'm like, you got to read. Like, this is. I'm flattered. Well, it was a very profound thought. So I have two thoughts. One is I can just steer people to go read it themselves.

Or I could read it. or you could read it and at least then people will hear it from your voice. But it's whether you want any part of that. Yeah, no, we can read it. It might be a good segue into the story of how I came to be where I'm at. Sure. Would you like to read or would you like me to read it? I'll let you do it. Oh, okay. Wow. All right. Here we go, folks.

Yes. Well, back then, I said your name is Cynthia. If you're all right, I'll change it to Gabby. You sure can. Yeah. So it says, my name is Gabby. I'm a 16-year-old freedom fighter who until about two years ago, was an absolute stickler for the rules. As a kid, I was quite good at avoiding conflict by blindly listening to any and all figures of authority from my teachers at school

to the various politicians on TV whom I didn't even recognize. That's a very dangerous thing, and if my parents hadn't drawn me away from that path, I don't know if I ever could have left it on my own. The message that I want to send tonight is directed towards parents such as yourself. We're doing their absolute best to guide their young children

through the earliest and most important stages of their lives. As a teen who previously caught up in the ideas of doing the right thing, according to the authorities, and conforming to societies consistently pushed common narrative, I cannot stress enough the importance of parents looking out for and guiding their children like mine did for me. Have my parents not been awake by the time that COVID hit the fan, I don't know if I would have been here today. However, since my journey has led me to this wonderful room, full of amazing, like-minded people, I'd like to share my story and how the guidance of my parents probably saved my life. When the shocking, terrible, horrifying, and scary news of the global pandemic

started blaring from every radio station and news platform, I knew I was 12, a child. Unsurprisingly, I was shocked, terrified, horrified, and scared. Why shouldn't I be? Like all the other adolescents, I was gullible, easily manipulated, and prone to the bad habit of believing everything I read on the internet or news. Bad combination. Good news for a government trying to strike fear, chaos, and panic in an entire nation. In fact, I and so many others fell directly into the trap of thinking that the only way out of this unprecedented government code for planned situation was to listen to authority and comply with safety mandates.

All for my own good, of course. Why wouldn't my government have my best interest at heart beats me? When the COVID-19 vaccine came out, I thought it was good news. In all likelihood, I would have wanted to get it had I not been recovering from a recent heart. surgery. Fortunately, however, I was not yet in the clear to get vaccinated. Thank God for that. In no time, we started to connect a series of adverse events that seemed to stem from receiving a vaccine that had been very hastily put together and had not undergone appropriate testing. Who would have thought that could be dangerous? Insert, sarcastic eye roll here.

Family members and friends started having strokes or partial paralysis following their vaccinations. One fell into a coma and didn't wake up until months later with extensive, extensive, and irreversible brain damage. We learned of myocarditis swelling of the heart that was common in vaccinated teens. My cousin and his late teens started having strokes related to complications with his heart. This all sent off warning bells in my parents' heads

and by the time I had healed and was eligible to be vaccinated, we were fully or at least far more awake against the idea. It started with my parents merely questioning the risks. Turned to them sharing their thoughts and concerns with me and eventually led us to realizing collective. how much was wrong with the narrative that was being pushed on us. I woke up. As for my,

as for saving my life, there's a good chance the COVID-19 vaccine would have affected my already poor cardiovascular health. If I'd experienced myocarditis, like many other teens, the scar tissue surrounding my... Etriotototinotricular node? See, I should just had gabrie rate this. Yeah, I wasn't getting that word, folks.

Would have closed in and prevented my heart from beating. In simple terms, the vaccine could have killed me, and my parents not seen through the government's ridiculous blanket of lies and protected her daughter despite her initial resistance. Waking up and being able to guide my highly confused and impressional self away from a source of danger of that magnitude is one of the most outstanding and heroic things that they have ever done as parents and as people. My message to all parents of young children is this.

Please, for the love of your children, be there to guide and protect them in situations that present dangers beyond their level of comprehension. Children are not physically capable of making crucial decisions for themselves due to their underdeveloped prefrontal cortexes. Therefore, they actively require a mature figure to help them through these types of legitimately dangerous situations. You might just save their life. Please note this is a very rushed and simplified version of my story and message. And I took that home and I was like, that is the most profound. I'm like, why can't an adult?

To this day, I don't know, maybe. Maybe not to the day. There's been some pretty profound thoughts come through. But I don't know. Your top five of writing something out, Gabby, and putting it in a way that I'm sitting there reading it and I'm going, holy mac. Like this is, yeah. So when you say, I'm just a girl and I do this story,

I go, in my world, you're Cynthia. And you're the girl that praised her parents for standing up for her in the middle of COVID. And there's probably a whole bunch more. can add into that and I want to make sure the audience knows who they're listening to because you've you've shaped my my thoughts as a parent now off of your last paragraph right as a parent there is a big responsibility to ensure kids in dangerous times are protected yeah well I remember just kind of coming to the realization when I was I was 16 when I wrote that but when I was like 13 14

that I actually don't know a lot. There's a lot that I am just in the dark about, right? And so listening to my parents was not to be preachy to other teens, but having that parental guidance was really, really crucial to my development as a young adult and my, again, survival even. So I think it's a really important message to put out there. I remember being so embarrassed about my grammar in that piece of writing.

But looking back on it three years later, I was quite articulate. People will think that was AI-generated. You sat down on the table and wrote that out. And then we're like, oh, please don't be too hard on me in my grammar. I'm laughing. I'm going, in my best day, I couldn't write in that well.

Like, I just couldn't have. Keep in mind, you're talking to the academic high-achiever, stickler for the rules for however many years. It's like, oh man, I might score an 85 on this. Well, I gave you 100, probably 100 plus two. Thank you. You say, you know, at 14 or roughly somewhere in there, like I actually realized I started, I don't know everything.

I've said at 40, and I think that almost daily. If you sit around with really intelligent people, you sit there and you're listening, like, man, I got a lot to learn still. Like it's one of the best things I've learned about life is I got so much to learn. It's like there's never going to be a dull day. Because if you go into it, you can really pick up some intelligent things from intelligent people who are doing things in life. And I'm just impressed you learned that at 14 because that probably took me until I was 28 to figure that out. You know, because for a long time there, maybe it's a young man thing.

I thought I was pretty smart. I'm definitely learning I'm not that smart. Well, there were some extenuating circumstances involved too when it comes to your life being actively threatened. I think that makes a difference. Just the severity of the situation itself really kind of knocked me into my senses. That's probably my dog barking at your family.

Well, let's talk plants. Okay. Because I know this is going to get. So for the audience, right, like you have to walk them through, walk us all through, your fascination with plants and how this begins, right? Okay. So we're going to strip off COVID because I just wanted the importance of how we stumble into each other to be everybody to know.

But now, since I've gotten to know you more, I'm like, every time I come here, I'm surprised I don't have mushrooms in my coffee or something. I'm a little disappointed if I'm being on. No, I'm kidding. but walk us through plants your fascination where this starts and I don't know what you're what you see happening here in Canada with it okay it actually started the the whole COVID conversation is a good segue into it because like I was talking about I had just undergone some minor heart surgery you know I was in a physically bad state so to speak

and I was also in a fairly mentally bad state. We had just pulled me out of school because of COVID, but it was necessary anyway. I was being bullied. I had really awful social anxiety. I was a very, very anxious child. And so... What were you being bullied over?

I was too smart. I was too good at everything. Oh, because you're a nerd. I was a nerd, 100%. Okay. Hi, Milo. Anyway, so I just had really low stuff. self-esteem. I was in a bad spot here. Bad spot here. So when I was pulled out of school and we

moved into this house, I spent an entire year, I guess the cameras can't see it. Out this window is a forest. Yeah. And I spent a year walking around in that forest. And as I explored in there, I wanted to start learning about what these different kinds of plants were because you could go down there and pick a bouquet of 50 different kinds of flowers, right, and bring them up to the house. And there's the odd one that you recognize, like everyone knows what a dandelion looks like. Most people know what wild roses look like here in Alberta anyway. And I wanted to start identifying more of them. I had two people in my life gift me books at the same time.

One was on plant identification and one was on the medicinal benefits of plants. And so that combination worked out really, very, very, well for me because I suddenly had a lot of spare time. We were super isolated, right? We weren't vaccinated, so there were a lot of public places we simply couldn't go. And then we were kind of disconnected from a lot of family and friends. We had just moved from our old home and our old school. We didn't know anybody. So I was this 13, 14 year old with so much time on my hands. And I just applied myself to those plants. I wanted to know what they were. I wanted to know what they were good for and whether I could eat them and as I was reading about that I

realized that most of them also came with this snippet of information about what they were used for medicinally and that was a little bit new to me but I was very excited about it so I was like oh did you know that you can like make a tea out of rose petals and you can eat rose hips and they're high in vitamin C and so I gradually started incorporating more and more of these plants just into my daily diet and my lifestyle for fun essentially I was explained blaring. I was figuring them out. And my quality of life improved drastically. Really? My heart health got better, my mental health, just from being in the trees and

connecting with those plants on such an intimate level. Like, I came out of that year of, like, isolation, a different person. It was even like my self-esteem and my anxiety levels, Like everything kind of culminated into me becoming this sturdy, strong individual with the confidence to attend a Sean Newman conference and write you like, what was that, a five-page manuscript about the story of my life? Like a couple of years before, I would have never, never in a million years would I have written that. And so I credit the ravine and the plants to a lot of my personal healing. And the more I got into it, the more I started treating more serious things. I was like, oh, if I cut myself and I'm bleeding, I can take this plant called Yarrow, and I can put it on my cut and it'll stop the bleeding.

As soon as I started to see more powerful things like that, the more I knew that I wanted to share that with other people. And so over the course of a few years, I got more creative and inventive with my remedies. I harvested a lot more things. I started growing some stuff in my garden. I read a lot of books on the matter and on related topics. And I eventually came to the conclusion that this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I want to go to the forest.

I want to harvest the plants. I want to interact with them personally. And then I want to pass that on to other people so that they can heal the same way that I did. Because it was so transformative. So that's the basics of it, I guess. And so now I'm in a course. I'm just wrapping up my first of five years of my diploma in herbal medicine, which will qualify me as a clinical herbalist in Alberta.

And that's the path that we're on at the moment. When it comes to people, including myself, because I've sat here and listened to you, talk about your latest discovery, and I'm like, God bless Gabby. I'm like, I just, I go into the forest, the ravine. I just don't see it the same way you do, which is like really cool to hear how when you're in there, what you see. And you have an interesting brain because you go, I picked a bouquet of flowers.

And then I kind of want to know what the flowers are about. Most people don't want that. Most people just want to pick the flowers and put them in a vase and have a nice thing to look at and maybe smell and different things. And yet I've run into lots of people where they just want to know a little bit more. And we all have our curiosities where it leads us. So when it comes to plants, when it comes to this ravine or when it comes to just maybe plants in general, what have we forgotten?

You know, like when you're talking to people, like people don't even realize. You know, you're talking, you rattle off a plant. They're like, if you put it on, it just, oh, you just stops bleeding. And if I would go talk to the old timers out in the Hillmont area about different things, they have all these old remedies that society's just forgotten about. So when you're learning about plants, I don't know, what is it that we've all forgotten? I think that we've forgotten that it's the original medicine, that pharmaceutical medicine is a really, really young practice still.

And it's been heavily propagandized and like the, Flexner report of 1910 really cracked down on herbalism and different modalities of holistic medicine saying, you know, these things are unscientific. They are inaccurate, you know, oh, some plants are poisonous. And so in the early, I'd say like late 1800s, early 1900s, herbal medicine was really swept under the rug in favor of pharmaceuticals. And what we've forgotten is that for all of the time before the late 1800s, the rest of the span of human experience, we have been using plants as medicine. And before humans were doing it, animals were doing it. It's been proven that birds will use anthelmintic herbs, which are herbs that kill parasites, to line their nests,

to deter mites. It's we have this very deep, intrinsic knowledge of things, or I think that we should. I hope that we still have that left. of using the things that we are naturally given to help us. And we've just very recently replaced it with synthetic medication. It's also, it's a money game. You can't patent something that occurs naturally. And so unless you're altering it in some way, like turning willow bark into aspirin by isolating one compound out of it,

and then calling that the medication. You can patent that because you applied a chemical process to it and you extracted it and now you have a different substance. But you can also just make a tea of willow bark or a tincture and still use that to kill pain, but that's not profitable, especially on a large scale. So there's a lot of corruption within the pharmaceutical industry for sure. And if something works too well,

you don't necessarily want to be. You don't necessarily want to put that out to everybody because if it fixes what they have, they don't have to come back to you ever again and spend more money. You really want in this industry repeat clients. You want people to keep coming back with you with different ailments that you can keep shelling things out for.

Or you want them to have a condition and you say, oh, you need to be on this medication for the rest of your life. You need to be taking this constantly. And we've become very, very, very, used to that. You know, oh, I've got a headache, Advil. Oh, my headache came back, Advil. Oh, man, another headache, Advil. We're never actually getting into the root cause. It's all symptom suppression, because that's where pharmaceutical companies really profit is on symptom

suppression, not root cause cure. I really like to use colds and flus as examples. A cold is caused by pathogens in your lungs or your throat or your nasal cavity right you have an infection there and one of the symptoms of that is often coughing expectoration you know you're hacking up mucus and if you take cough syrup many of which are antispasmodics all that does is stop you from coughing and so now you don't look like you're sick anymore you know you don't have the symptom of the cough but the bacteria never got out of your lungs the infection is still there and that is is going to manifest again, unless you can either continue to do what you were doing,

or it's going to move on to a different body system that hasn't been suppressed because your body's going to try to get it out a different way. Now you're going to come down with a fever because your body's trying to use the heat to kill it and you're trying to sweat it out. And then if you suppress your fever, it just goes on and on and on until it hits more critical body systems and then you're really, really sick, all because you got a cold and suppressed your cough. And most holistic modalities take a very different approach to symptoms.

There's a lot of symptom encouragement. For example, if you have a cough, it is very common that an herbalist will give you an expectorant, which is an herb that encourages your coughing reflex, or thins the mucus so you can hack it up better. And essentially the goal is to help your body do what it's already doing to get the bacteria out of you, because it knows what it's doing. We are very well-designed machines in that sense. Everything that exists in our bodies exists for a reason,

and there's so many functions to every system. And so when I am hacking up a lung, I want to be hacking up a lung, because I know that there's something in my lung to be hacked up. And so there's that fundamental difference in the approach to healing. from pharmaceutical to herbal medicine, that I think we've also just completely forgotten.

You know, like your body knows what it's doing, and you are allowed to trust it over somebody else's advice who has never been in your body, who doesn't know what your body's feeling, right? You're the only one who is in this place at this time when this is happening. So you should have more authority over what you think is wrong with your body

and what you think will help it. We're outsourcing the accountability that we take for our own health and becoming super disconnected from just being conscious of what's happening. You know, like so many people will be like, oh, I have stomach pain. But if you talk to somebody who's really in tune with their own biology, it can be like, oh, my left ovary hurts, or my bladder hurts, you know, my intestines hurt, my stomach hurts, and they can really break it down for you. Because they know where things are and they know what those different types of pain feel like.

They tune into that. Yeah, I guess that was a really long spiel. No, you're doing. Those are some things that we... Don't take my silence for anything. Very interesting. When you talk about, you know, you're the only one sitting here in this body and, you know, experience everything. It's one of the things that, you know, like...

you can mess around with your body on a daily basis. You can actually try things and see and almost experience it almost simultaneously. You know, one of my older brothers, Dustin, had colitis when he was 18 and survived it. And I would say now as he's older, he would be one of the Newman brothers that really really has to pay attention. of what he puts in his body because he's come to understand things that most people don't have to worry about, right? Because most people have most of their functions of their organs, you know, is it 85% of the time, whatever the percentage is. They don't have a missing intestine. Yeah.

That's what I'm getting at. But he told me, you know, this is probably 10 years ago now. You know, you should start a food journal. I'm like, a food journal. Why? It's like, oh, then you can start to write down. albums you have off of everything you eat. I was like, really that simple? And he goes, oh, yeah, oh yeah, just write down everything you're eating. And then you'll see how much you're eating,

and then you can start to like adjust it. I'm like, okay, that seems easy enough. And so, you know, you got to come to terms with a bit of, I don't know what the term is self-loathing, maybe of like, well, I put ice cream in my body, and then I had that, now I had that, and then I had that. oh, you know, there's a real, there's a real come to God moment of, I got to write out everything I'm eating. But then also you get to see how the symptoms that come out of eating all that stuff. And so I guess the reason I bring that story up is when you're talking about, you know, you can really, no one's going to tell you what's going on. It's so true.

It's like, you're the only one hacking up the lung. You're the only one going through all the things. and, you know, to have an understanding of your body is probably really important. But then you add in the medicinal side of it, the herbal side of it, however you have a word, I'm sure, Gabby. You're like, so what would advice would you give to people then if they're trying to understand their body better and they're like, okay, well, I take aspirin. Or I take, you know, I don't know what the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, I don't know what the, the, the, the, the, Next one is. Is it, is it something for fever? Is it something for sleep? Is it something for, you know, I honestly, I can't think of all the things people probably take things for. Yeah. But what advice would you, would you try and impart at this stage? I realize you're not through all your university. I realize you're, you're, you're, you're, early in stages. And it'll be a fun conversation maybe to have and to continue one year over year.

as you learn more and start to, you know, mature in your understanding of even plants, right? Like when you're already a light years ahead of me. That's probably not saying much, folks, but what would you steer to the everyday person if they were trying to maybe get back to more of, let's get to the root cause instead of just deal with the symptoms and what the pharmaceutical companies are giving me? Yeah, you kind of hit the nail on the head there with root cause. always always always I will tell people to trace their symptoms back to the root cause you know like don't stop at your symptoms you know don't stop it saying oh my head

hurts so I I get chronic headaches or my stomach hurts so I have digestive issues it's very rarely that simple so oh okay so you got a stomach pain right right now oh man I got some pain it sucks how would you find the root cause of where that pain's coming from? Generally, as an herbalist, when you take on a patient, the very first thing you do is do an intake assessment. And that assessment is a fairly lengthy process. I'll use an example of the herbalist that I go to in Edmonton.

Okay. Before your first appointment, she sends you, I think it's 12 pages of paperwork to fill out. detailing essentially the history of your life and all of the past health issues that you have had and your living situation who you live with the number of hours you work in a day what you would say like your regular stress levels are your communication style the way that you deal with conflict the way that you react to stress and negative situations in your life you really try to build a

blueprint of who this person is Part of that will be your energetic constitution, we call it. That's an important part. We tend to characterize people along a scale of hot and cold and damp and dry based on both their personality characteristics and their physical characteristics. Personally, I'm a very cold and dry constitution. I get cold super easily.

If I feel really upset about something, I tend to close off and shut down. my body systems, if they're out of order, they tend to be like cold and stagnant as opposed to hot and overactive. So we're completely opposite is what you're saying. It's probably, I mean, I'm doing simple math here and I'm going, I'm probably not that. Yeah. So there's, people are very different in that respect and we like to place them somewhere essentially

on that grid of hot, cold, damp, dry and put them in one of those quadrants, if you will. just as part of our pathway to understanding what makes them tick and what patterns their body falls into when they are feeling well and when they're feeling unwell. So the first thing we do is like I was saying, get a big picture of the whole person and not just the person as they are now, but how the person has changed throughout their life. We also write down like big momentous events. You know, when you were a kid, did you move suddenly? Did somebody in your family die?

Did you go through a grieving process at such and such age? Because all that stuff impacts. All of that stuff impacts you. One of the concepts that I really like is that there's no such thing as an isolated sickness. It's all connected from the time that you're born to the time that you die. In one way or another, one thing always leads to the next. Because even if you are suddenly exposed to something out of the blue, like a new kind of bacteria, your immune system still has to be in enough of a state of disarray or disrepair or unhealthiness to succumb to that infection, right?

There's always going to be, for everything that's happening now, there's always going to be something that happened in the past that helped to lead to that. So taking a client case history is the single most important step of the entire herbal process. It's just that consultation of getting a really good handle on who are you as an individual and what makes your body tick. And then once we get that big picture out of the way, we start to look a little bit more closely on what are you feeling now, what's happening in your body at this moment, and is there anything that's happened in the last six to 12 months specifically that has really impacted you? For your stomach ache, it could be as simple as you started eating a new food and your body doesn't agree with you or you've developed an intolerance or an allergy.

You know, it could have been any food additive that's put in processed foods, right? There's no food additive put in processed food, is it? Oh, really? That can be a big source of it. It could be that you are anxious all the time. I had that issue. I had chronic stomach aches from anxiety because what people don't. realize is that your stomach is the second most innervated region in your entire body

second only to your brain. You know you have a ton of nervous tissue down here and it's very very closely connected to what you feel up here. It's the more primitive version of your brain because even if you feel like you're processing things up here or you are at least moving them out of the way so you can function on a daily basis, your gut is still going into fight or flight mode regardless of whether or not you actively are. And what happens during fight or flight? Well you take blood flow away from your like less necessary organs and put them towards the necessary ones to like run away from stuff and fight stuff and hide from stuff. You know and so your

digestion is actively impaired by that. And then that in itself can also lead to different kinds of mood disorders because 90% of the serotonin you produce is produced in your gut, if your gut has a huge role on your nervous system. And so generally when people have gut problems, I like to look at what's going on in your head. What's happening up here to change things down here? And vice versa. You know, if you're having problems up here, what's happening down there? What are you eating? What are your diet habits like? So for people, you know, you think, you can have to be real honest with yourself. Very. You cannot

deceive yourself because you're the one who has the context for it. You know, like your herbalist who you're explaining things to you isn't going to catch and be like, oh, I think you're being dishonest about what you actually ate. You have to be very forthcoming about it. Yeah, you want to change, you've got to become the change. Yeah. Right? Like if you want change, you have to change.

I think that's what a famous or a notable motivational speaker used to say. It's writing out what you have to change. eat is a humbling experience but an empowering one because then you actually see and you can't deceive yourself it's like yeah I did eat that and I had that oh maybe I had this and you want to take control of things you got you got to be honest with yourself and if you want to solve chronic things what I'm hearing is it's like it's not as simple as just masking it with aspirin no the more you suppress your symptoms, the worst the issue gets underneath. You know, you're just taking away your body's expression of it and your body's attempt to heal it by itself. And so when you're essentially

cutting off a very crucial limb of your body when you do that, you're saying, I'm actually going to put your hands behind your back. So this thing is still going to be happening, but now you can't do anything about it. And you're just going to have to sit and watch it happen. And I hate to bring it back to COVID. But when you talk about suppressing things and like not addressing the real issues, I come to government. And I think of COVID. I think of what do I want out of a leader right now? It's just, let me just talk about the issues. Can we just actually just have a frank conversation? It doesn't mean we have to agree on everything, but there's just things going on where the symptoms are starting to bubble out and we keep ignoring even the symptoms. And you're like, you realize this is only going to

get worse, right? But you're not going to address the root problems of all the things going on. Totally, yes. And when you talk about it, you know, as a, just as, well, on the micro, it'd be the human being. On the macro, I think of like many human beings. And you think, on that stage, it makes complete sense to me. Because I go, I'm just waiting for a politician to come through and just talk to the issues. Just talk about it. We've got. A few big ones here in Canada, and if we just address them head on, it'd be uncomfortable. But we'd probably get to the answer relatively quick. And you're saying roughly the same thing when you're talking about the micro,

which is right to the human being. Yeah. You have to allow yourself to look all the way at the start, you know? When you look at a tree at the window, you know that the tree didn't start out looking like that. It started out as a seed. to the audience when she's like, you got to look out the window. I'm like, I can see it. I'm normally in a studio that has no windows, right?

This is like, I am spoiled right now, people, for the best view, I look forward to trying to find a better view than this, but this is a pretty darn good view sitting here. Regardless, when you look out of a tree, sorry to interrupt you. That's okay. It's just funny because normally I don't get to just look and see trees.

That'll be something new on the road trip. that I had not planned on. It's like, there it is. I love sitting here and just seeing it all. Anyway, when you look at a tree, you know that the tree had to go through a process to get to where it is. You know, the tree started as a seed,

and that seed sprouted and turned into a seedling. And then every year, that seedling grew bit by bit by bit by bit into this tree. So when we're looking at issues within ourselves, and we're like, oh, I have a tree going on in here. You can't just look at it and be like, well, better cut down that tree. It's like, no, where are the seeds coming from? It didn't start like that.

Did you recognize within yourself the stages before it became a giant tree? Did you recognize it when it was a seed or a sprout or a seedling yea high? You have to take yourself back to that point in time because that's really where your answer lies. And on the topic of gut health, there's so many more things that I could go into. There are also like physiological conditions. You could have a hiatus hernia. There's all the things that go on in your body. But for the most part, it's there's generally one thing that happens once and then either that thing is big enough to cause a chain reaction of events or you do that thing so many times in repetition that it becomes harmful.

It's either like acute toxicity or or long-term toxicity, but it's toxicity either way. And those are very common root causes, I would say, like a traumatic event. Not to be like TMI here, but personally, I only get urinary tract and kidney infections after I've experienced something that I consider to be emotionally traumatic.

There's a very close connection there, especially for people who are a bit more emotionally sensitive and really tuned in with themselves and with the world. If something happens in your external environment that affects you enough, that can move into your internal environment. We tend to process emotions with our bodies. Like one of my little brothers, he never gets sick unless he has something happened to him

that he feels like embarrassed or ashamed or sad about, right? Like he is a very stoic person, not to call him out if he's listening to this. He's a very stoic person. And so he processes... I assume the cozes are going to listen to this. He processes his emotions very physically. I assume for my kids the cozies are going to listen to us.

The cozies. Yeah, so if you're the type of person too who tends to bottle up your feelings and are really bad at emotional expression, which I used to be. I used to hate crying. I used to hate talking about things. I used to just, you know, compartmentalize everything that made me upset. And that can be really dangerous. can be really dangerous too because then those things if you can't manifest them emotionally they will try to manifest physically in your body it's I think we have a

very shallow understanding of the way that energy and frequency and electromagnetic pulses affect our bodies a lot of what we consider to be theoretical and what's the word that I'm looking for like non-physical like emotions and thoughts We assume that they don't have any weight because we can't see or feel or interact with them physically. But I do think that they have a huge impact on us. There's an emerging study called magnetal cardiology, a field of study, that actually looks at the electromagnetic field, output it by your heart,

and how that interacts with other people's electromagnetic fields and can actually influence your mood. There's a lot of untapped potential in this area too. In my opinion, there is no line between physical health and mental health. It is just one continuation of the health of our bodies. Your brain is still an organ. And to an extent, I think your soul is still an organ. It's all still part of this unit that is you. And it's interacting with everything.

We take a very reductionist approach to our physiology. we tend to classify things into organ systems and then into organs and then into tissues and then we look at how Illnesses affect each of those things separately You know like oh you have kidney problems in your kidneys it must be isolated to your kidneys But everything in your body is connected to everything and it affects everything There's there's so many layers of interconnection and then you have the fascia which runs all the way over your body in between everything connecting it all, which is essentially just this one big fast channel for energies that are stored anywhere to get to the rest of everything.

We are not to be reduced into parts like a, I don't know, a Lego toy. Like the whole is always greater than the sum of its parts because they are all working together and interacting with one another and they create a system instead of just a collection of individual things. My brain tends to go negative and where it's going is, I reckon back to COVID and I go, I don't think they, at the highest levels,

have forgotten all that you're talking about. And so they do by isolating and poising us with fear, fear, fear, that would do certain things to the human condition. I fully believe that. But on the flip side, if I take my brain away from, okay, instead of going down the dark thought, let's go down the positive thought.

Positive thought is, just like Gabby, all of us can metaphorically or actually go take a walk in the woods. Yes. And start to peel back the layers of who we are and get to figure out our own bodies better. And on a positive side, you think become forces of nature in our own right against what is going on in the evil side of the world. Mm-hmm. One of the most powerful and rebellious things you can do right now is to learn how to take care of yourself and to not rely on somebody within a giant well-established system to take care of you. Same as the public education system. That could be a whole other podcast. But just with my parents taking their kids out of that system and educating them at home and letting them pursue their own interests. Like I would never have gotten into herbalism if I was stuck in. like sixth grade science class. I hate science when I was little. And now I'm the biggest science nerd, right?

Like it's, there's, there's so many ways that you can rebel simply by not subscribing to those bigger systems. You know, big pharma, big education, big government, whatever it is. Big tech. The less you rely on those systems and the more you rely on yourself and your own knowledge, or at least the community around you, the better off you're going to be, you know, the less impressionable and less able to influence you'll be. And I think that's very powerful.

Here's a fun exercise for your listeners to do. As part of my schoolwork, before we're allowed to do the assigned reading on any given plant, we have to taste it first. And we have to sit with that plant for at least half an hour. and we have in essentially an activity sheet that we do. But as we look at it, as we smell it, usually make it into a tea. As we taste it, we have to write down everything that we're experiencing and what we feel like this plant is doing within our bodies

before we learn about what it's supposedly physiologically supposed to do. We have to write out who we think this plant would be if it was a person. And if we know anybody who we think would connect with this plant and we have a body map and we draw on it where we feel this plant in our bodies. And so it's essentially this very conscious interaction with a plant. It's like meeting somebody for the first time. Are you just shaking hands with one another? Are you sitting down across from each other and having a two hour long conversation? And just allowing yourself to be fully conscious and leaning into the less scientific parts of our brains.

They actually discourage us from using some of our brains. from using scientific language. You know, like, don't write, this feels astringent in my body. This feels like it's tightening and toning my tissues. Like you're allowed to be expressive with it and fully experience it, even if it sounds kind of silly.

You know, like, oh, this feels like it's grabbing my tongue and pulling on it. And even those weird analogies can be super, super telling. Not only about what that plant can do for you, but about how it specifically interoperable. interacts with your body because everybody is going to interact with plants and medications differently and foods. So a really good exercise I think for people to do if they are wanting to either get into this side of things or if they just want to be more conscious about their bodies as a unit

or if they're curious about certain foods that they're eating, you're allowed to ask your body by interacting with that one substance, whatever it is, just letting yourself feel it and sitting with it instead of just moving on with your day. And it's funny, the other thing I hear out of that is it's like slowing down. Yes, it's very intentional. You have to spend half an hour with a plant. It's like, I have to spend a half an hour with a plant. Like, well me and that plant are going to have a conversation because I'm like, I don't

know how to sit around and not talk to somebody for, I'm kidding, obviously, or I think I'm being obvious, like I can obviously sit around and not talk, but, uh, I'm not, but, uh, In my brain, as you're talking, I'm like, I'm going to sit beside a cactus. I'm like, well, I assume I'm going to start talking to said cactus. And then there's studies where when you talk to plants, they actually interact with you. I'm like, that'd be an interesting, hmm, that'd be an interesting experiment, I guess, because there's been studies done whereby negative motions or thinking negatively about a plant or even saying it, we're going to kill you, that the plant can feel that.

And vice versa. When you speak kindly to a plant, it can do the opposite, right? And, you know, that sounds in the woo, but it's like, I don't know, there's certain things that are just like, that actually makes a lot of sense, you know, it's a living being here. Well, and you can see it on a human level so plainly, you know, if you're mean to a kid, the kid gets sad. Yeah. A kid gets sad, that starts to manifest physiologically.

Why would it be any different? You know, we don't know whether or not trees have souls in our conscious beings. We can't say that, oh, they're not, they don't have a consciousness, or they don't have a field of energy. Like, they're living and growing. What else can we figure out exactly like the studies that you were talking about? Yeah, I soul I'd have a hard time with, but at the same time, I think there's enough out there that you're like, they're a living thing because, I mean, there's been enough studies done and a whole bunch there, they're interconnected. I don't fully understand that all. That's above my pay, Craig, Kevin. But I think, you know, like treating things with kindness, whether it be, you know, the food you eat or, you know, the plants you interact with, the people you interact with, is just, you know, like, treating things with, probably in general a good a good habit to get into how we treat one another is is

really impactful you know like I just go back to had an interview with a guy man what was that folks probably a week or two ago talking about content diet so like your social media interact with and you were listening to me and your dad talk back and forth and about you know like one of the things that are about unplugging and actually just not listening to anything anymore because it's just like whatever At some point, you just realize it's just fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. And I wonder sometimes if I fall into that trap, because I just want to know what's going on in Canada. And then, you know, we can talk about what they're doing to supplements or to the herbalist side of things.

But the content diet, you can put that to so many different parts of your life of what you have interacting with you all the time. You know, they say you're some of the five people you surround yourself with, right? So, you know, pick wisely. And to me, that makes a ton of sense, because if I was surrounded by, I don't know, people drinking all the time, there's a, that would be a hard thing to be around. And it's funny. Then you come and sit with your dad and your dad hasn't been drinking. So we just sit and it's not even anything in between. It's not even a question.

It's like, you know, I just already know they don't have to worry about it. That's one minor, minor, minor thing, right? You think of all the things you're putting into your life. A person should do, you go back to your like the long thing, and this is where I come from, these are all the things I've done. It's like, oh, you should probably write out the things that are interacting with your life right now and start to remove things that you just like, this actually isn't good for me. Totally.

Sometimes the root cause can be you being in a bad relationship with somebody, whether that's like your sibling or your parent or your romantic partner. Like, that in itself can be a root cause. It doesn't necessarily have to come from within you. And just by cutting that off, painful as it can sometimes be, that can be very healing in and of itself. So I totally agree with you. Now, you wanted to talk about what the Canadian government is trying to do. I do, yes, I wrote notes.

And I want to make sure I ask this before not we finish up, but certainly, before we finish up, I guess. So tell us what you want people to know. I would think you and Sean Buckley would get along very well. Probably. Because Sean's been talking about what the Canadian government's been trying to do for some time. But let's hear from what you've seen and, well, let the audience know. Okay.

I guess I will clarify firstly that herbalism is not a regulated profession within Alberta or Canada, meaning that there's no federal guidelines for the amount of education that you have to have, or the set of standards that you need to follow in your practice. Herbalism is very confusing in the way that there's a serious lack of red tape, but also a lot of red tape in other places. So effectively, anybody in Canada can claim to be an herbalist without needing to prove it to the federal government. There are some self-governing bodies like the Alberta Herbalist Association that are just kind of self-led within the industry that establish like a code of ethics and a set of educational standards, and if you're registered with them, you're considered to be as qualified as you can be without being federally qualified, right? So the practice of herbalism is not regulated.

However, the production of natural health products, which are products made from herbs, among other things, are very heavily regulated. There is a lot of red tape and a lot of hoops you need to jump through if you are going to try to produce a natural health product for sale. The exception to that is if you are practicing herbalists, you're allowed to compound remedies. They, the Canadian government has different definitions for compounding and manufacturing. Manufacturing a natural health product is essentially making it for sale to the general public and advertising it to people for sale. And compounding is making a formula specific to one person within an explicit patient practitioner relationship. So for example, if I go to my herbalist and she has a line of herbal products, you know, she has a

you know, she has this tea that she sells for good sleep and this salb that she sells for bug bites and she's marketing those. Those are natural health products. She needs a site license and a product license for both of those. But if I go to her and we have a consultation and I enter that patient practitioner relationship and she says, for example, oh, you need these specific remedies

for your kidney infections, you know, I'm going to make you a tincture specific to you, at this specific dose in this specific amount for you to take over this amount of time. That counts as compounding and that does not require a site or product license. And so that gives herbalists a little bit more freedom with what they're allowed to prescribe their patients because if you try to regulate every single thing that an herbalist made and then gave to people who come to them, it would be literally every single time because every remedy is different,

because it's specific to that individual. So you'd have to be going through the whole process of getting a product license, which can take like a year for that one remedy that you give that one patient at that point in time. It's all natural. Yes. Anyway, Health Canada has a branch called the NNHPD, the Natural and Non-Prescription Health Products Directorate, and within that they have a number of policies. And what they're doing right now is,

they've opened up the conversation to changing two of those policies. One of them is the natural health product, compounding policy. We just talked about compounding. And some of the changes that they want to make are discontinuing the classification of single herb products as compounded remedies. For example, a tincture made with just one herb instead of multiple herbs. They're saying potentially that could be something that you need to get a product license for even if you're taking that one herb and using a specific part of it at a

specific dosage in a different form you know fresh dried powdered what have you just because it's that one herb it might not count as compounding anymore and so that's going to have or if that went through it would have a large effect on herb lists because sometimes they do prescribe you know you just need this one remedy you just need stinging nettle tincture but there's still so much clinical work that goes into making that one stinging nettle tincture, you know, you're choosing what kind of menstruum, which is the liquid that you extract it in, you know, whether it's 40% alcohol, whether it's glycerin, whether it's vinegar.

And then you're choosing how much herb you want to add. There's a kind of complexity. There's so much complexity to it, right? And so I think it's kind of unfair that just because it's one plant, it would be not classified as a specific remedy anymore. Another thing that will be, let's see, I wrote down there they're doing a handful of things that I really don't agree with. They're also saying that they might encourage herb lists to only compound remedies when there's no comparable commercial product available. For example, if you wanted to make a stinging nettle tincture for somebody, but there was already stinging nettle tincture available on the market, you would direct them there.

regardless of whether or not the tincture you would make would be much more potent and it's harvested from your backyard and you know exactly what went into it. They're saying if there is a commercially similar product. They want to try and regulate health products. Yes. They're trying very hard. Isn't that the goal of what they're always trying to do is they're trying to regulate at all? Yes. In this case, you're like, you're trying to regulate what people are getting out of, forgive me, the book.

and turning into things that help people. Yeah, they want to make it really one-size-fits-all, which is a very pharmaceutical mindset, but it's not how- It's a very government mindset, right? Yeah, it's not how it's one thing, it's gonna work for everything, for everybody. Yeah, we're not gonna worry about the complexity of life We're just going to do one thing and if it has side effects to all of you be damned with you because it works for some people Yeah, so it's like I could not very many I could make a nettle tincture that is totally different for

one that's commercially available. I could use a different menstrual. I could use a different marked to menstrual ratio. You're tailoring it directly to the person. You go back through your entire story and you go like, well, we got to do this long thing. Huge. And then you go, why would you, forgive me, I think you said menstrual, so what you're collecting it in? And you go, well, why would you change? And I go, well, probably because some things react differently to different bodies I'm going to assume. And so you're like, well, we've got to make sure we get it in the right thing because they might be allergic to this or might have a bad reaction. You know, it's like the complexity of individuals is insane and so you have to have that

flexibility. Yes. And what are they trying to do? They're trying to wrap it up so that you can't have that. They're trying to make it very rigid. They're removing that flexibility. And if you remove, if you make it rigid, then it becomes obviously less effective, right? More problematic.

So then people will turn to the one size fits all. Yeah, they're prioritizing the commercial. and annoying all at the same time as I listen. So what can people do then? Can they like, is there any way to help out? Yes, I will tell you in one second. I also just wanted to talk about the other policy that they're changing. No, you're good.

The natural health product raw material policy, which a raw material is essentially an ingredient, so to speak, in your compounds. Sure. But they're very loosey-goosey with the definition of what a raw material is. It's like essentially as long as you're taking that material and turning it into something else, it's a raw material regardless of whether that's a fresh plant, whether it's dried and powdered, whether it's already turned into a tincture,

and you're going to add it to another tincture. Okay. And the way that they're trying to enforce that, or that they want to enforce that, is to get you as a practitioner to declare your clinical intent with an herb before you even purchase it or import it into your practice. Can you just say heal people? Right? There's the government of Canada. I'm going to heal people.

The government of Canada already has official herb monographs, which is a compilation of information on that specific herb. So they already have a list of herbs that are good to go. Practitioners can use them. And so now they're adding this additional step of overreach. They're like, okay, we know what this herb is and what it's good for, but what are you specifically going to use it for? And are you going to turn it into something else?

just to try to figure out whether or not it's a raw material and then from there, whether or not they should be enforcing a product license on it and whether you need a site license to take it into your practice. So it's very convoluted and like I said, with the lack of red tape in being qualified as an herbalist, there's so much in just trying to help people with the actual plants themselves. Why won't you let me help people? I can sit in this chair and have somebody come in and be like,

I'm an herbalist and talk to them all day long. But the second I try to give them something, regardless of how qualified I actually am, there's this whole system. And so this, these two policy changes are actively up for debate right now on the Canada.ca website. And the two policy changes once again are.

The natural health product compounding policy and the natural health product raw material policy. Okay. And it's the NNHPD branch of Health Canada. Natural and Non-Prescription Health Products Directorate. I'm going to give you an email address to put in the show notes if you don't mind. And this is open for discussion until July 12th. Oh, so like real quick here.

Yeah. So what everybody in the herbalist community is trying to do right now is to get everybody in their dog to send an email to Health Canada saying, hey, we don't approve of this. This is going to negatively impact our practice. This is going to negatively impact our patients. and it doesn't have to be lengthy. You pretty much just have to specify,

this is what I'm referring to, I don't agree with it, this is a reason why. Whether you're a practitioner who's going to be affected by it or a patient, whether you're a student, whether you're just a good Samaritan who appreciates that this form of medicine

is still able to be practiced in Canada without that level of regulation. So I would really encourage everybody if you agree with what I'm saying or if you think that herbalism deserves to function as it is or better than it is right now instead of being more and more tightly regulated, I would really encourage you to send an email to the address that we're going to put in the show notes and just say,

hey, I don't approve of this, you know? I'm a citizen and I think this is a bad idea. And the sheer volume of messages will hopefully be enough to at least make them reconsider. The Alberta Urbanist Association is actively taking a more legal approach to it, I think. They're actively protesting it, but in the meantime, the more of us that speak up and say, hey, don't like this. This is a huge federal overreach.

The better, I think. Okay, so we'll put that in the show notes. That's my call to action for everybody today is to send in email. One final question for you. Yes. Well, actually, maybe two quick ones. Okay. Then I've been trying to ask Chuck them, so I'll ask you.

Alberta Independence, you're the younger generation. Yeah. But you've gone through a lot in your short period of time. Your thoughts on Alberta independence, a referendum coming up here. Are you going to vote? I have slightly unconventional views on separation, I would say. Again, I see it as a symptom of a larger issue. And when I zoom out from that, all I see is divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer.

I feel like it's this issue that's been brought to light. And now it's such a convenient way to divide people. And when we look at the numbers and the polls, we don't have a majority yet. And so it's a whole lot of fighting and a whole lot of arguing without, I guess it's, It's hard to put it. And I know that a lot of people feel that separation or independence is the only way to move through this. And I don't want you guys to feel as though I'm calling you out and saying it's a bad idea,

because I don't. I actually think that Alberta gaining independence would be highly beneficial. I also think that we would have to really commit to it and put in a crop ton of effort into making it a smooth enough transition that we can remain stable throughout the whole thing. But in terms of the big picture, I think it's being used against us a little bit to promote division. You know, we're really caught up in this issue of I'm pro-separation or independence and you're anti-independence, and therefore we are enemies, even though we're all people living in the same province under the same government. And federal overreach is really what sparked on this independence movement in the first place.

agree all of us, whether we want independence or not, are pissed off at our government for the amount of overreach, right? So we're fighting amongst each other about the best way to deal with it instead of all kind of discussing with one another and reaching this mutual position of there's a problem. Regardless of how we want to solve it, there's a problem. We almost need to cut it off there. And it's, I have a lack of experiential knowledge, obviously. I'm pretty young and I'm not super politically involved. Yeah, but I still enjoy the answer. Taking, taking a more holistic look at it.

You're in Alberta and to me, like, everybody's opinion matters. This is a big, this is going to be a big vote. Yeah. And I understand that, you know, it's a referendum for a referendum, but regardless, I'm curious what everybody thinks about it. So, you know, you can be young and go, I don't know. it doesn't matter. Your thoughts are important on this, right?

Your generation's thoughts are important on this. And you're absolutely correct. It's a symptom of a bigger problem, but they don't want to address the bigger problem. And so Albertans are left with, well, if you're not going to address the bigger problem, you're not going to talk about the bigger problems. What are we left to do?

Right? So I really, I really do CEPIL. And then they turn around and use the division. Yeah. And I understand that thought process 100% too, Because then they turn them. Well, these people are anti-Canada, anti-this, they're traitors, all these things. And it pits people against people.

And we see that happen time and time again all throughout the world. And then we get so tied up in that conflict, and it takes so very long to resolve when we're not approaching it from a position of mutual respect with our fellow citizens, that the government can just continue doing what it's doing. You know, even though we're upset about it and we're mad, and we're fighting one another about the best way to deal with it. It's still happening. We're not actually stopping it.

So I think they're, from a holistic perspective, again, as a future herbal practitioner, that's my specific thing to add to the conversation, I guess. When we zoom out from just the issue of should we gain independence or not, how can we go through that process and how can we gain that independence? because I do think that that would be fairly beneficial for Alberta. I think it would be hard, but I think it could be good. And I think it's worth pursuing.

But if we decide that we're going to pursue this, when we zoom out, how can we approach it in a way that's not going to benefit the federal government or play into this little trap they've set of just divide and conquer, divide and conquer, divide and conquer? The more divided we are, the less productive will be in this decision. any scenario really. So I think we really need to take a look at how we're treating the people

we disagree with and whether or not we can actually find some common ground on the bigger issue even if we can't on the specific symptoms. One final question. Okay. Road trips. Very light topic. Obviously you're not a mother yet so I'll ask it from being on road trips with your family. Do you have a favorite one and why is it the favorite? Oh. That's hard. I think it would have had to be Europe just because it was so new, but also we ran into so many problems and solved them as a family unit. I think my favorite experiences are the ones where we like got pulled over in Monaco for breaking whatever rule, or we found ourselves stranded in the middle of Luxembourg with nowhere to stay, or we were frantically trying to learn German, and French at the same time because dad didn't tell us which country we were going to be in.

For our listeners, he likes to fly by the seat of his pants on our road trips and just kind of go where the wind takes him. And so that leads to... That's why me and your dad get along so well. Booking hotels at like two in the morning and trying to squeeze all of us in one room. I think you have to take on a mindset of problem solving instead of being like, oh, all woe is me. and these problems are harming me. It's actually a great family-building activity.

Like, it's great bonding. For me and my brothers to all be in the backseat as we're, like, wandering through this country that we don't know and say, like, the vehicle breaks down and we have to make the best of it, or we get lost and everyone's phones have died, and we're in a forest in the middle of nowhere, right? Like, those are the experiences, I think,

that made the trip so special because we learned to work with one another and work with what we had and be resourceful and be emotionally regulated, because if something bad happens and you freak out, and then the other five people in the vehicle with you freak out, that... I'm working on that.

That just leads to a chaos spiral. So the biggest thing that I think I've learned from that road trip and the other ones that we've been on is take a little bit of enjoyment in running into problems because it's an opportunity to learn how to solve them within a family unit, not just you, not just you and your partner. Like the kids are involved at that point because it's their problem too. They're also stuck here.

And it teaches you different ways to approach it. And I think that was really valuable. Appreciate you doing this. It's been a few years in the making. And I wish you all the best with their schooling. And I don't know. Be very curious to see where life takes you. Either way, I appreciate you doing this.

I really appreciate you having me on. Yeah. It's been enjoyable. I decided it last night around the campfire. I was like, oh, this is exciting. Well, you know what? I decided this years ago. Yeah, good point.

I was just waiting for, because unbeknownst to you, I'd talk to your dad about this probably three months ago, maybe four months ago, regardless. It doesn't matter a time frame. This has been an ongoing conversation for quite some time on my end. So it may feel a little spontaneous, which it certainly was. But out of all the things spontaneous, like this has been in the works in my brain for a very long time. I was just, what age is Gabby the right age to allow? Because, you know, I talked to your parents about this on and off now for probably close to three and a half years ever since you wrote

it. I'm like, because that's, it's just profound. And as a parent, I really enjoyed your thoughts. And now watching you do it, you're falling in love with, you know, with dealing with the plants in general, it's been cool to watch because when people find what lights them up, they're cool people to be around because they just naturally exude a positivity on what they're interested in and that's intoxicating or captivating or maybe both to sit and want to converse with. So I appreciate you doing this and look forward to where the future takes you. We'll be, I'm sure, running into each other in the future. And either way, I appreciate you coming on and doing this. Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you for having me and bringing me into your world of the stuff

that you're passionate about, the things that light you up. Like, I can tell when you're talking about people and human interaction and the way that we think, like I can tell that that lights you up. And so it's very much a mutual experience of getting excited together. And I really appreciate that. A couple of nerds. Yes, yes, we are. Yes.

Well, thanks again. Yeah, best of luck on your road trip. And I hope you guys run into some problems that are fun to solve. I'll think of that often. I was waiting for something else. It's like, well, you get a problem, which is, no doubt about to happen. And I hit it with positivity and see what comes,

bring everybody along for the ride. Yeah. I think that'll be a thought that's six with me. Well, I'm glad. Well, thanks again. You're very welcome. Thank you, Sean.