Shaun Newman Podcast - #1118 - Sam Cooper

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Sam Cooper is an award-winning Canadian investigative journalist and bestselling author of Wilful Blindness. He exposes Chinese Communist Party influence, money laundering, and transnational crime. A University of Toronto and Langara College graduate, he previously reported for the Vancouver Sun, The Province, and Global News. He now leads The Bureau, an independent outlet focused on corruption and national security.Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Lomago. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre-Core. Hi, this is Frank Peretti. This is Daniel Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday. How's everybody doing today? Well, we are in Montreal. All right? That's where we're at, as I record this, or at least a campsite,

everybody in Montreal says you're not actually in Montreal. Okay, fair enough. We're staying on a campsite near Montreal. Okay, fair enough. There we are. Now, I bet Montreal folks like a little precious metals. Don't you? I think so.

I think every province I've been in. This has been some interesting answers. Interesting questions along the way. Having a little bit of fun. But when it comes to precious metals here in Canada, certainly in Quebec, Alberta, Saskatchew, Manitoba, Ontario, all the places. Sorry, East Coast, haven't got to you yet.

And sorry, BC, because they have. haven't been there yet, but you know who has been there? Silvergold bowl. If you go on silvergoldbill. You can order everything from there, okay? Get an account, order everything online, ships to your doorstep. They're North America wide. You go into a Costco. You're going to see some silver gold bull products in there, okay? So there you go. When it comes to buying, selling, storing precious metals, think silver gold bull. And down on the show notes, you can text your email Graham. He has the answers to all your questions. Guardian, plumbing, and heating. These guys have been keeping homes, farms, and businesses running smoothly since 2010, whether it's expert service

cutting edge power solutions or advice you can trust. Guardian plumbing and heating has your back, and you can find them at guardianplumbing.ca. And then closer to home, Ignite Distribution, high service supply company based in Wainwright, Alberta. That's where we started this road trip. I mean, it started in Lloyd, but our first stop was in Wainwright. Well, in Wainwright, Ignite Distribution specialize in automotive parts, wide range of additional products, including safety equipment, welding supplies, fasteners, and janitorial items. They operate as a Napa Auto Parts retailer, okay? That's Shane Stafford and his crew.

You can get a hold of them, 780842-3433. Caleb Taves, Renegade Acres, they did the stamp concrete floor in the new studio, and they have their spot for community spotlight. I've been highlighting the SMP community. It's been super cool. I've been meeting a bunch of people on the road. If you're somewhere between Montreal and the East Coast,

or even down the East Coast, United States, reach out. There's a good chance so we can run into one another. This past week, we got to spend a ton of time at the Bikers Church with Melissa and Rob McKee and a ton of fun. We got kids got to be a part of their free store or help restock some of the stuff, put shirts on T-shirts is what they were doing. And then they served a hot meal and the kids got to see them be a part of that a little bit too. So shout out to the Bikers Church and all the people there. They were very welcoming, very interesting church. I don't think I've ever quite been in a church quite like that.

So that was Ottawa. So if you're in the Ottawa area, make sure to look up Rob and Melissa McKee at the Bikers Church. There's a whole bunch of other people there as well. And just wanted to point that out. The road trip has been powered by Zeebs. They're out of Chesterner, Alberta. Zeebs performance restorations delivers expert classic car restorations,

custom exhaust and performance upgrades. That's Zane and his dad, Brian and you can find them at zeebs.ca. Finally, if you're watching on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Rumble, X, Facebook Substack, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. Substack is an interesting one, okay? Because there's lots of stuff going on there for paid subscribers.

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That's all I got for you today. We are in Montreal for the next couple days, looking forward to it, and looking forward to some interviews coming out of Quebec. All right, let's get on to that. Tale of the tape. Today's guests, an award-winning Canadian investigative journalist and best-selling author of Willful Blindness. I'm talking about Sam Cooper, so buckle up.

Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Sam Cooper. Sam, thanks for doing this in a unmarked, undisclosed location. Yeah, I'll disclose. This is my home court. We're on the Ottawa River. And what you see behind us in the winter, it's my cross-country skate ski trail.

It's my bike trail in the summer. And I work this. I grind. Working out, you sit and you read a ton and do a bunch of research. So you've got to get outside. and move the body. That's what I do. That's part of how I stay sharp.

Well, A, thanks for doing this, right? Like getting to meet you at the Cornerstone now a few months ago was super cool. I think that always, you know, you wonder who is on the other side of a screen. And then we get to meet and a lot of people admire the work you're doing. And I was like, well, I'm literally going a stone throw from Sam as long as you're around. like we might as sit and we might as have a chat and miles have to come to your stomping grounds and do it here

so we're sitting under a canopy outside as it tries to rain a little bit and we'll see if it rains on us a little bit today which would be a first for the podcast that's been some of the fun I've had on the road trip is getting to do podcasts you know I don't know I'm somebody to be like well how's the lighting

I'm like have you heard some of the podcast we've been all over the place we've been in people's living rooms to front porches to you know like out on the farms and everything in between. So this is another new one. It's a pretty good backdrop. It's just, you know, as it's sitting here, I could see the rain falling behind your head. I want to say I first saw what you were doing this summer with, you know, with your family and driving across the country. And I saw it when you were going around Lake Superior. And I just,

I told you offline that I recall doing that with my parents way, way back and just the epic sight of the waves coming in on Superior. I just. remember in my mind, you know, under 10 years old, but I always had an image of, you know, I wanted to be a surfer, but you can't do that in Ontario. But I saw the waves coming in on a beautiful summer day. And it was, I think it was, you know, one of those beaches that I think you went by this summer, just epic. So I encourage all Canadians. I don't care if your elbows up, but get across the country and know what you love. Well, okay. I want to, I want to dig into, I was telling you before we started, you know, like for 51 days, today is

Dave 51 as we record this. Man, I'm looking at my phone right now and I'm like, I just, I just haven't had any want of opening it up and seeing how cock-eyed Canada is right now, but you're a guy who opens it up on the daily, writes about it, discusses things, you know, has written a book on it, lots of different things. I'm, I'm, the one thing is, I do open the phone. up to see text and lots of things, whether it was Sean Chen or different things going on with Chinese interference, influence, all the things. And I'm like, oh, that's funny because I'm like,

I'm going to sit with Sam Cooper. And there's going to be a guy who can break it down. It's probably Sam. So people have been watching our MPs and the influence of foreign countries have had on this and the fact that we're not disclosing it and all the different things. What can you tell us? what can you tell me well i'll tell you and Canadians and Americans and i don't think it's a secret to your viewers and mine at the bureau that yeah i talked to high level officials in the united states that are very concerned with what china is doing in the world and what they're doing in canada i talk to high level officials in Taiwan and elsewhere also have great sources in canada so yes this has become my specialty among other things and the people saw the show the show

Sean Chen's story. So this is an MP from the Toronto area. I think people accurately say that if you were a colleague of his on Parliament Hill, you rarely would have seen him in action. Yeah, all the comments where I never saw him work in his entire time there. People can look at his voting record. I mean, it's very low when he actually was there voting or online voting. And I do believe it was some people.

Well, I haven't tracked his votes, you know, granularly, so I won't comment on that. But people are saying, what's the story with him claiming that he had a serious car accident? And that's why he's leaving office. So why was he over in China for a long amount of time, looking very healthy? Sean, my own sources in Toronto from the diaspora community say they've seen him in the last week or two, looking very spry, looking extremely healthy. He's one of the most hailed-looking MPs in Parliament, I think. He looks like a fit guy.

So he steps down, people are saying, what's the story here? And now he's running for Toronto Council. And I got to say, like my work shows that Chinese interfering at multiple levels in Canada, from Vancouver's Council to Toronto's Council, provincial levels, it's just saturation, right? But let me break down his trip to China. A lot of people have gotten into all

as we chat videos with people that are directly connected to the Chinese Communist Party. That is what it is. But as we deal with the little Ottawa weather here, I think we're going to be okay. I don't know, I'm glad I picked this spot. It's not pouring rain, but it's raining good enough.

I got everything tucked underneath. I think we're tucked in, so I'm going to keep this answer going. Look, what people need to know about who Sean Chen was traveling with to China is. As we get, Canada is building a fortress on the river here, which that's the new normal. So he travels with something called a HACA Community Association. It was started in 2022 in Toronto by his brother, Joe Lee. who is a sitting counselor in greater Toronto area. Joe Lee also is the person that stepped out after Aaron O'Toole lost the election,

held a press conference with Chinese media, and said, Aaron O'Toole is anti-China. He needs to step down, right? Joe Lee, who is John Chen's relative, also sits, is a director of something called the Canada, China Conservative Association. Sean, this is a known United Front Work Department linked group, the Jamestown Foundation came out with a report. You might have missed it.

Well, you were not following China this year, but the Bureau covered it deeply. They identified 575 community groups in Canada with definitive links to China's foreign influence arm. So that makes Canada an extreme outlier in the Western world for these Chinese Communist Party co-opted or infiltrated community groups. This is how they surround politicians. and I don't want to get too complex in this answer,

but Sean Chen and his cousin Joe Lee, who sits on the board of this known interference group, they traveled with a group that has those same connections. So that on the face of it and documents, Sean Chen is traveling in China while claiming to be deeply injured on the dime of a group which can be connected to China's foreign influence arm.

I could talk for a long time more about, you know, the connections of this group that is in Toronto, where, you know, his cousin is the head of it. They've called for Polyev to step down. They've called for O'Toole to step down. Michael Ma, the floor crossing MP, who I talked about, I believe I talked about his case out at your conference. He was listed as a director of this same purported Chinese-Canadian community group, but a U.S. think tank with a former CIA analyst as the director. So this is a very knowledgeable group did a study saying this is a group of concern in Toronto. So I think there's more to the Sean Chen story.

Yeah. Well, I tell you what, just to chuckle on this side, as like that thing hasn't been running the entire hour. I've been setting this up, everything else. I just chuckle because this is what happens when you do in person live, not in a studio. You get all sorts of sounds and all sorts of different things going on. and I chuckle of when you're like, you want to do it on the river? I'm like, sure, sure.

It's his city. He must know. Yeah. But, you know, coming back to like, okay, China, everything there, right? Like, so you go and you dig up all this stuff, right? You sit there and you go through, you weed through all the weeds, you find out all the information, you see how bad it is, this isn't good, you tie everything together, you put it out on a nice little bow, here it is, okay this is as good as I can find it doesn't seem like anything changes though Sam

like I mean it made big news headlines for you know what was it three four days of how fit he is and how he didn't show up to work do we expect anything else to come of it well Mr. Chen is running for Toronto Council let me give you the context this way I've reported for the Bureau while you were driving across Canada And in the past... Did I mention you should check out the Bureau on Substack? Yes.

Do it. So do it. In the past two, three weeks, I reported that the Richmond City Council got a high-level briefing from CIS regional directors going in in a closed-door session that only I could report because I have a source with direct knowledge. And they were warned with not classified warning. but pointing to the known cases from the Hogue Commission that my work sort of put in motion that China would be interfering in the Richmond City Council election and how it works is individuals that are tasked to surround politicians will approach and offer support to candidates or, you know, they may be behind media organizations that attack candidates that they don't like.

And this is how these 575 United Front Work-Lefatts Department community groups work in Canada. So not only are they, as I reported, you know, supporting 11 candidates in the greater Toronto area alone in the 2019 federal election, but those very same community networks which are directed from Beijing through spies in the consulate in Toronto or Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, you know, the consulate workers task these purported community leaders to support the candidates that China wants, whether it's in the Richmond Council, the Vancouver City Hall Council, Sean, we've got municipal elections like across the country coming up and many of them, especially in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton,

will be targeted by the Chinese Communist Party. So let's take a step back and you say nothing's changed. Yeah, nothing's changed because Mark Carney, you know, made China his new strategic partner. He's open, essentially he sent a signal from on high that no matter what Sam Cooper, the Globe and Mail reported, you know, in 2023, and all these crazy stories that now social media experts are covering well, we don't care because we're going to use China as a hedge for the big, bad, you know, bully in Washington. So that's what's going on right now in Canada, I believe. It's getting worse and it's getting more brazen. You know, I watched this stuff so closely for over 10 years. And you can see when an op is on or an operation is ramping up. I used to hear from my sources in, whether it was the RCPR CIS, the United Front activity we're seeing is crazy.

You know, local known fentanyl trafficker that stumbled into a meeting with Justin Trudeau for unknown reasons, you know, has met with a former PLA official. They're meeting in such and such restaurant. Like, the operations are very heavy and it's getting worse in Canada. It's getting worse in Canada for, like what you're talking about is a coordinated effort across municipal elections across the country. Now, I also catch that you're pointing out major cities because the major cities have, well, I don't know, I'm doing simple, pragmatic things of like, probably because there's so many ridings, such a population there that can be controlled, influenced maybe. Maybe this is a better word they controlled. And so that's why they're targeting there?

That's right. And that's the right assessment. The China believes, unfortunately, they have no respect for our multicultural great society. Literally within their CCP doctrine, if you are, you know, your great grandmother was born in China. And your family has been living in Markham, Ontario for three years. Canadian-born, if you have Chinese heritage, they consider that you should be loyal to the motherland, as they call it. So they feel that where there is a high proportion of Asian residents, especially from mainland China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, that they should own the candidate there.

And Sean, there are writings where you have the United Front supporting all three, I believe, major candidates. This is what I hear from my sources. So it doesn't matter to them. Of course, they recently, they, and I think long term, they have favored the liberal party, but they're supporting conservatives. They're supporting NDP. They're down at the council level. And what I wanted to say is, you're right, it's focused in urban centers. But they, the recent reporting from experts is it's moving out into, I'll just call it, you know, the resource rich areas up north. Of course, China is heavily, heavily, heavily targeting not only indigenous band leaders, but, you know, councils in whether it's, you know, Prince George, Prince Rupert, I'll just say I'm aware of a person,

a mayor in a northern B.C. area that is resource rich that the documentation would show is directly connected to this very same sort of United Front Work Department, high-level group that I'm talking about in Markham, Ontario that would have been involved in Sean Chen traveling over with the diaspora group to China and meeting with, you know, CCP propaganda type people. So it's all across the country, and it's fair to say, because this is coming from academic reports, it's spreading out of the urban centers. United Front, United Front? The United Front is China's, let's, let's,

get a little technical. Yes, please. It's a Leninist political warfare system taken from Soviet Russia by the Chinese Communist Party under Mao and et cetera. This is the way that the CCP... It's an exclusive club.

Not all 1.4 billion people in China can belong to it. It's a very tiny elite, but through something called the United Front, they co-opt all civil society, literally all civil society groups, all, you know, business groups, etc. And they will put them on various bodies that are connected to what is called Beijing's United Front Work Department,

which is essentially, you know, a massive bureau that has exactly what I say, has directorship over community groups from the diaspora worldwide. And, Sean, I really got on to this in 2020 when I documented how these United Front Community Groups, groups were sucking PPE out of Canada, sending it back to, you know, Chinese military or United Front depots. And I say that because you can just see concrete actions across the Western worlds, which include the so-called CCP police stations connected to the United Front.

It's sort of a way to make it simple how the CCP embeds itself around your politicians, gets into your institutions, your universities, your student groups. As I say, it's a Leninist political warfare. It's communism infiltrating our democracies. And they're very good at, they're very politically scientific. They study our politicians, you know, anyone running, especially in urban centers, they've got a book on. Not that you got a magic wand.

If you had a magic wand. Palantir Stone, you got one. Yeah, okay. Like, you sit, you know, like, I was asking, I'm asking Franco Tarasano this earlier, you know, like he spent, I think, eight years at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. I'm like, you know, what does that taught you after eight years? Of like staring at government incompetence. They're spending money on things that make zero sense.

People are getting taxed more than they ever have. You know, and, you know, you look at all those stories, you dig into them. You're, you know, you're part of a group that does freedom of information on, you know, the money the government has and where it's going. and I was curious, you know, his answer there, you've been looking at this for a long time. I mean, you've written a bloody book on it. I don't hear it's changing. I hear, no, it's probably getting worse.

Like if you're sitting there, you know, not that you can wave a magic wand and get out of it, but even if we started doing things the proper way or what have you been, over the course of that decade or longer, Sam, what do you learn and where would you where would you direct like i assume it isn't even as simple as getting a group maybe it is i don't know i'll just throw that out there um wow this this good because i think about this a lot why am i an expert because let me start this way um as a journalist a young

journalist coming up in vancouver in hindsight i understand that i was trying to understand what was going on in an absolutely central core location for the CCP's infiltration activities, or what the experts now, you've talked to Scott McGregor, he would call it hybrid warfare. So what is that? That is bringing China has a doctrine where they know they cannot beat the U.S. military, but they're trying to become the head, the leader of the world through this political warfare or through investment. They know very well that underground financial activity and corruption is pretty rampant in China,

but their intelligence services sort of find a way to use it to their benefit and ride in underground banking or dirty money flows. And so I started to understand that different form of warfare, or if you want to call it a shaping operation, God forbid we get into a war, you know, when China attacks Taiwan. they are so deeply set up in our ports and in our infrastructure, in our phones with TikTok, that they just have multiple ways where they're prepared for kinetic spread of warfare globally by trying to soften our societies, right? So, yeah, I became an expert in that, and I don't take all the credit. There's a great journalist called Cleo Pascal that I just had on for the Bureau podcast.

She was a former National Post travel reporter. She traveled across the Indo-Pacific, and she recognized how China was using investment, organized crime, casino money laundering, corruption, you know, massage parlors run by, you know, a People's Liberation Army-affiliated woman near a barracks of, you know, the local force in Saipan, which is a U.S. territory. So she recognized in her travels as a journalist the same things I did and became an expert. So we're both working, I would say, there's a civil society of journalist experts, former intelligence officials that are working on this that are trying to harden government responses in the West to this type of just crazy clandestine warfare. But it's very difficult because to take a step back.

what's the story with Mark Carney? I say that, you know, a lot of Canadian leaders, but especially liberal leaders, are, and we've talked about this before, quite influenced by the pro-B Beijing trade lobby, and who, you know, let's name them, the Canada-China Business Council, who I think has sort of got a secret seat in the table in this current trade negotiation blow-up between Washington and Ottawa. So, look, how do you change it? the magic wand is more Canadians, more Westerners need to understand how their society is being

undermined, how their politicians are being undermined, maybe judges, certainly lawyers, everything. As Scott McGregor tells you, like Canada is very saturated by CCP influence, deeply saturated. I have troubling insight on it, and I'll end my answer by this. If I can take a little bit of credit, we have a foreign influence registry. that is finally being implemented in Canada that stemmed out of my work, you know, exposing that this stuff's going rampant in Canada and we don't have a foreign agent registry. But here's quite an irony and I'll tell you. We don't have any, of course, agents that have willingly signed themselves up for that foreign influence registry yet. I'm about to take a trip to Taiwan to report on their difficulties

encountering this same, you know, clandestine warfare, threat of kinetic warfare, and I will get, you know, some assistance in my flight from a business group that is pro-Taiwan and doesn't want China to be, doesn't want China to subsume or, you know, simply take over their island through cognitive warfare. So guess what?

You know, maybe I'm taking some consultations and whether as a journalist who will be completely transparent on every story that I write that Sam Cooper was invited and got a little of support on his flight to go to Taiwan and report evenly on these matters, will I have to sign the Foreign Influence Registry because someone in Ottawa might see that, oh, he has taken a flight and he hasn't paid for it himself. So that to be determined. But wouldn't that be a fine irony if it? If, fairly it could be said, the registry was started by me in a way, you know, certainly the exposure led to some actions.

Could I, or my colleague Charles Burton, be the first signature on that registry? It's possible? If it, so be it, if it has to be. I think that would be very illuminating. So you're going to Taiwan? Yes. I won't say exactly when right now. No, no, no.

Just, okay, there's been two trains of thought. You've been exposed to, I think, some of it in my world, which is, you know, like China isn't as bad as we're made it out to be, right? You were firmly in the camp. They are as bad as they are. I have personal experience that they're... Sorry, I won't interrupt. I'll give you an example besides myself. Please continue.

Well, I just, I go, you think China is as bad as they are, and you're about to go to Taiwan. I'm like, I assume that wasn't an easy decision. Or maybe it was, I don't know. Well, I mean, it's the right thing to do. I've talked to Taiwanese officials a lot. I traveled there in 2023 at the invitation of their Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And the lesson there was I have never met a government so transparent. And so they, you know, if you want to report on something negative about Taiwan, like,

and I do critical reports. They're not going to stop you. They're like, here we are, see us. We like democracy and journalists because China has used lawfare and bullying to cut off our relationships with almost every country that used to take us, you know, treat us as a diplomatic entity, right?

So I, the level of secrecy in Canada, whether it's around trade talks or why, you know, our government can't counter let's go through the laundry list like transnational organized crime fentanyl labs CCP police stations I can't get good answers from Canada

but if I ask direct probing questions in Taiwan they will give you answers they will give me answers and I'll be very transparent in each story say the Ministry of the Foreign Affairs paid for Sam Cooper to come study their

democracy and Sam Cooper wrote opinion pieces saying he liked what he saw Right? But that doesn't mean when I go back, one tier question, yeah, there could be some risk there. China, as you know, or maybe not in granular detail, Xi Jinping's latest, you know, sort of order to his army is be ready to take Taiwan by force by 2027. So that's a few months away from when I'm not going to be too specific, but we're getting there, right? So yeah, I mean, of course there are risks in whatever. I do, people are very well aware that, you know, I've disclosed that after testifying in Parliament about China's threats to Canadian politicians, the RCP visited me and said they had learned of a threat to myself. But what I want to say is, to your question, some say China not so bad, some say like you, like I do, they're bad. The woman named Laura Harth from

safeguard defenders whose open source work documented these CCP police stations run by China's Ministry of Public Security worldwide. So hundreds, her group exposed them. She has now been exposed to, has been attacked in deep, deep fake AI porn, like smearing her as a woman simply because she outed how the Ministry of Public Security is running these illegal police stations. to monitor our citizens in Canada. There's been a conviction in New York State. Sean, as I say, it's the Ministry of Public Security working with the elite, the cream of the cream of Chinese organized crime

in Western cities around the world. And it's not just myself reporting it. It's, you know, the New York Times has done great reporting. ProPublica in Italy, a lot of great reporting. So this is not secret anymore. They are as bad as I say they are. And the real concern here is that if you become an expert on them, they will use different means to try to intimidate, to shut you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it's interesting because I'm like, you've spent a good chunk of your career digging into this. I mean, once again, you've written a book on it, right? If people haven't picked up willful blindness, they should. It's an enlightening read. I don't know why I put it beside like Linda Blade because it's obviously two different topics

but you know like an enlightening read for Canadians yeah it's like what do it like obviously you don't have to tell us everything but what do politicians say to you when you sit with them

or will they sit with you here in Canada it depends you know I sat down with MP Michael John at McGill University, I think it was over a year ago, speaking to a group of graduate students that are interested in security studies, and it was a great conversation. There were high-level, you know, this was one of these official meetings where I can say who's there. They're not off-the-record sources, so, you know, there's the head of the RCMP counter-cyber espionage, or, you know, various experts talking to

students and so Michael Chan would be a person you know a politician that I say he like like specialists like myself in journalism has has stood up to the bullying he was you know after China's consulate or embassy in this past year said Canadian politicians should not be traveling to Taiwan he and I had very similar messages we, online, we don't, Canada doesn't take direction from Beijing. It doesn't matter if Mark Carney has called them a strategic partner. So Michael Chon defied that bullying and traveled to Taiwan. Christia Freeland, who a lot of people, you know,

would not think of a very, let's just say, there's a lot of people that don't have a great opinion of Christia Freeland in Canada from certain, you know, from a political, side for various things but she i would say china hates her because she took the right regulatory actions against the financial entity and this is really going into the weed story about sort of all these people that were surrounding just and trudeau trying to get a bank you know approved and i'll leave it at that because it gets very very deep and litigious you know in these waters but christia freeland went over to taiwan and said

she sees what China is doing there as the same sort of pre-kinetic shaping operation that Russia did back in 2014 to Ukraine. Right? So people have different views of these different conflicts around the world. I talk to politicians from Taiwan, United States, some from Canada, and I'm saying there are some that see the big global picture of who the real enemies of freedom, and the West are and whatever you think about Christy Freeland, I do think she sees aspects of it. There are politicians that won't sit down with me because I've named some online, for example, Senator U.N. Powu. I got a tape recording in 2020 of him having a private Zoom meeting with a group in Vancouver of journalists that I can, again, definitively connect through the Jamestown Foundation report or through literal Chinese Communist Party open source documents,

I can connect to the United Front Work Department. Probably I could connect to efforts to interfere in the conservative leadership in race in 2022. Probably I could connect the people that UN Powu was meeting in Vancouver in 2020 with people that tried to support David Eby in his leadership race for the NDP. Same people would. be involved in probably attacking Kenny Chu through a complex media operation in 2021 and supporting his liberal, you know, opponent, Parm Baines. So I do have at this point, I'm getting towards a little bit of an encyclopedic view of what's going on in Canada. And I think that's why some high-level people in the U.S. and Taiwan want to understand what my view is. And look, people like,

Yuan Pawoo or Victor O, it doesn't matter what they say. They are sitting on bodies that extremely concrete and provable research from the Jamestown Foundation connects to the United Front Work Department. And, you know, on this meeting that I reported on with this tape recording that a great diaspora member forwarded to me, UNPOWU talked about. how he would use his office to fight very hard to protect the rights of people to be on these CCP bodies in Canada,

which doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense, but I think that's a type of lawfare. You've got a not-elected official at the highest level of Canada's parliament using their office openly to let the CCP run wild in Canada. And, you know, I just,

I can't get over it. I guess that's why I can't stop reporting on it. There's been, you know, some of the, I keep talking about these conversations that happen off air, right? Like I keep running, you know, like once again, a little incognito to go around and talk to different Canadians and just hear what they say. And the latest one was from a couple that lived in Toronto.

And, or lives in Toronto, I should say. and you know I get a strong sense maybe the father votes conservative the mother maybe not well it's interesting but what they were talking about

and neither one of them had like harsh feelings towards the other where you're just being ridiculous they were talking about elections in Canada and whether or not they were valid anymore like whether and I and that's in the first like 30 minutes of like, you know, prying a little bit.

And I'm like, huh, well, I sit with Sam Cooper. Like in my brain, I'm going, I sit with Sam Cooper. I'm going to throw that. You know, because your research, obviously a lot of the influence it comes from, it doesn't even have to just be the CCP. It could be anyone wanting to influence our elections. Yeah. For a lot of the strongholds, you need to have your candidate represent the governing body

that normally gets elected there. That's why the liberal race. for who's going to be the liberal candidate in certain areas is so important not the actual election the same is on the flip side in conservative strongholds who gets the conservative nomination becomes that's the actual election so when i first started hearing that that's what they were targeting oh yeah actually makes a ton of sense that's the actual election they're they're targeting the the leadership race for the governing body of that area if i'm saying that correct but i found it interesting that ontarians now obviously all only a couple, but it's been brought up many a time out west on whether or not, you know, like you're talking about how much influence different countries have, specifically the CCP. And you go, are we down a rabbit hole right now or down a dark hole where there's no coming, not no coming back, but we're, we're a long ways in, Sam. If they're pushing that far and that hard, the governing, you know, you've talked about prime

ministers and how much influence they've got there to where you have trade talks going on and that's become a strange world. I don't know, you had Trump come out? How many months ago was that? Was it even a couple months ago talking about Chinese influence on their elections? Yeah, we're in a deep hole. There's no question. Like, to pick up on your point in Ontario, I mean, politics watchers would know the name

Nathaniel Erskine Smith, like a... a sort of well-known liberal parliamentarian who obviously didn't get along with mark carney and it was an extreme seems to be a very intelligent person but couldn't get anywhere in his party so who knows why but he he stepped away then he was going to run for leader of the ontario liberal party and he what he saw in in in in trying to get i think it was just a nomination for his local riding in the, you know, East Toronto, he stepped away and said that he believes that he saw a certain group signing up candidates that weren't, had, didn't have identities or being, you know, bust in or something like that and told two to vote for. And he basically, he called it a lot

of irregularities in the nomination contest. And so you had this big name liberal running for what should be a safe nomination in his back door in East Toronto and he had these big plans he's going to be the leader of the Liberal Party and then from what it looked like in the coverage someone in the party said no we want this person

and as it turned out it looks like it came from sort of a more Muslim community background so Nate Erskine Smith saying Irregularities in a nomination he wasn't saying that when I was reporting on irregularities and a nomination, you know, for the Liberal Party involving allegedly the Chinese consulate and international students. But when he saw it firsthand and looked to be the victim from his point of view, suddenly he saw something there.

And the reason I bring up that specific example in Ontario, I mean, I just did a story for the Bureau from a group that says that what's called. the Muslim Brotherhood, which is a sort of a major Islamist group coming out of Egypt that has a lot of influence in politics worldwide, according to the U.S. government, they, according to the report that I just reported on, may have targeted 80 seats in Canada for this time. The Muslim Brotherhood. Muslim Brotherhood. And people can look into it. They have, at the very least, ideological or historical connections to Hamas and, you know, pro-Palestalism. forces. They have supposedly or purportedly rejected violence in the modern era, but according to

the intelligence reporting and some academic experts, their means is now sort of influencing and seeping into Western institutions through the appearance of moderation, but positioning for the longer term to sort of slowly, I suppose, push towards things like influence in curricula in in schools or perhaps pushing for sharia law in certain areas like this is a major major politician in michigan that that might have those types of links just just won a contest so this is a north america this is a worldwide story but you say you're talking about canada and to your main question do you do reasonable people think that elections can be fixed I would think you're...

Well, it's silly not to think that they can. They can. It's on how, right? Fixed is like, it doesn't matter if you vote. They've already decided. But when I listen to people such as yourself or others talk about it, it's like, no, they see the weak spots in the election that have the most pivotal moments. And they go and make sure they win that. And that's why when I go back to, if the liberals, have won this riding for the last 100 years,

that's a safe liberal riding, which means then it becomes more an influence, which is who's going to represent the liberals? Well, we've seen both parties. This isn't just the liberals. This is the conservatives as well. Put their finger on the scale and go, we don't want that person.

And that has been something we've all witnessed from both sides of the aisle, and you go, if you're a foreign influence, you go, why do they do that? How do we influence it so they put our candidate in? That's exactly. Your point is Canadians could have a view of what the issues are in an upcoming election, whether it's Richmond Municipal Council or a federal election provincial contest. You know, on paper, these are the issues, but it's already, the writing is already won by a party and they have picked their candidates. So what's happened, they put, you know, as you say, they got people to nominate the person they want.

And this person doesn't have a mind of their own. They're a functionary of the party, right? So let me give you one more example. This is, I mean, I reported, I just told you that I broke the story that CIS, high-level regional officials said to a closed-door council meeting in Richmond, British Columbia, that Chinese interference would be an issue in the upcoming municipal election this fall. even before that there was a story that Vancouver Sun broke about some realtor in the Chinese community had put out like an AI image on WeChat, which is this sort of Beijing controlled messaging app, and it said Chinese Canadians need to go out and vote. So many Indian Canadians voted in the last election.

So if Chinese Canadians don't go out to vote, you're going to get an Indian mayor. and they had this distorted image of a person. The guy that's running is named Cash Heed. He's a very secular guy, but they had a guy that looked very traditional Sikh. So it's complete, like, disinformation, pitting diaspora communities against each other. And in a municipal election,

something like maybe 20% of the population will vote. So if you want the Chinese-Canadian candidate, Alexa Liu, favored to win, how many people do you have to mobilize to make that happen and make the Indian Canadian? It's moneyball of politics from a foreign influence. Absolutely. You know, they've looked at the data and they go, okay, we need to mobilize.

Last election, it took 1,200 people to get her elected or him elected. We need 1,000. How are we going to do that? They don't care that it's, you know, they put them as a traditional seek. They don't care. They're trying to mobilize people. It's actually quite brilliant, except it's not us doing it. It's somebody who wants to have control of what we have here.

And what's unnerving to me is, you know, like how this isn't more mainstream or how it just hasn't clicked for a lot of people. That's the whole point to the foreign interference story. We, you know, whoever you are, whether immigrated Canada are born here, you have an idea, you're taught in civics class that you work, you pay your taxes, you learn the issues, it's your democratic duty. A good citizen goes out in votes. But the scales are uneven because if you're the dummy Canadian that's playing by those rules and you study your issues, you go out and vote, and you've got a hostile state from China, Iran, some say India, Russia, many, Middle Eastern entities will be involved in that election. And as you say, I say, they are politically scientific. They're brilliant. And then you just got the average Canadian voter that's got no one in their corner, really. Well, so I try my best because, once again, hockey guy, right?

And I have to assume, like here in Canada, so many of us love the NHL and sports. And I go, how much time did you spend or did I? I spend on trying to understand the NHL before I ever got in this realm. A lot. A lot. And so when Las Vegas broke in and they started to bend the long-term engine to reserve, you went, I could be mad at them, but that's actually quite brilliant. And if you take that brain of trying to solve the NHL or whatever your pastime hobby is,

into politics, it doesn't take that long to see the weak points of like, oh, that's where I put some influence on. Because it's big bang for little effort. Like, you know, you actually get who you want in there. And once they're in, there's no, you know, like people will talk. Chris Sims will talk. Love you, Chris. But you'll talk about recall legislation and like how Alberta has it.

Yeah, but any rational person goes, it's almost impossible to recall anyone. So, you know, is it impossible? No, it isn't. And I'm glad we have it. But like, the truth of the matter is once you're in, you're in. And they are, and we should be as well, because we can play the game too. We should be looking at it and going, there it is here's the weak spots go here here here here here get your people elected start pushing back

and you know in Alberta I mean that's how Jason Kenny got out that's how premier Daniel Smith got in was people started to do that we need more Canadians across the board doing that and I I guess I don't I don't even pretend to speak for albertans let alone or Ontario let alone Albertans that's an interesting point i mean i had a great time coming out to your conference and one of the great things was like walking around and you know a lot of people wanted to share what how they were feeling what they were thinking and i recognize exactly what you say albertans have gotten very real about politics they've gotten very real about thinking you can't whine and moan about ottawa not caring for another 30 years or the next trudeau you know

Maybe if Trudeau's son's music career doesn't turn out, they'll be back in like 10 years. But I. Katie Perry. Unbelievable. Yeah. I don't know. Some are fun. But the point is, like, I saw that people are getting very hardheaded.

And it's not that I necessarily agree with their direction for Canada. But they, they're not living in a world of illusion anymore, right? They're very hardheaded. They will sharpen the elbows. and I'm not talking about some BS, let's adopt, you know, Jerry Butts' campaign slogan, elbows up and be like, you know, walking around brainwash. You believe everything that Mark Carney says. They, you know, Albertans are fighting on a riding level because they believe in what they are fighting for. One of the questions I've been asking everybody about is Alberta independence, right?

Sorry, folks. They sound like a broken record because I feel like if you're listening to every episode, you just hear the same kind of line regurgitate it. But, you know, I was a kid when Quebec had their referendum. And I remember being just very confused, very sad. But now I wish somebody would have just, and they probably did. But, you know, I guess I could have just taken a mic and went around and asked a whole bunch of Quebec people what they thought of that. Now, on the flip side, that's what I've been doing for the last, like, a year and a half. I have a pretty good sense of what people who want Albert Independence, why they're doing it, why they're pushing as hard as they are.

And then I had this, I'm like, I wonder what. Canadians even think, do they even care? Does Sam Cooper have thoughts on Alberta independence? Or on a referendum? You know, I haven't, it's definitely not my focus, but I have a more, I have a greater understanding of the West growing in power and not being given the respect it's accorded by a political class, and I'm just going to say it, a very influenced and pretty captured media system that looks at the people that are driving, you know, the revenue for this country would outright disrespect. And I just, I don't know if it's because give me, allow me this little tangent, you know, my family is from West, from Swift Current. The Cooper store was sold to

the pioneer co-op. So my family were, we're literally pioneers, merchants. And I do have a, a strong Western streak in myself or respect that I just always kind of, even though I was brought up in Toronto and big city, Ontario, I never adopted that kind of what I see as like a brainwashed Eastern elitism that doesn't respect people that may think differently. So those are my thoughts and I haven't. You know, from where I stand, I've probably had my own, I don't mean to say this is like I directly influenced the Alberta independence movement. But on the flip side, it'd be idiotic to think you haven't had some influence on it, right? You can get Daniel Smith to sit down with you.

Sure. You're not an outside player. So you look at it and you go, people aren't under the illusion anymore. The further I come east, the more I realize Canadians want Canada to work, which I think is great. I do. It's great, yeah. But, you know, in order for Canada to work, we've got to have some changes. like not in 40 years time, like soon.

Otherwise, you know, some of the things you are talking about, we won't be talking about the same problems in 40 years. It'll be something drastically different. And so if we go on the same path we are now, I don't think we'll be here in 40 years. It's done. Maybe the United States has said no more Chinese, we can't accept that risk up north.

or maybe we start to whatever happens with Alberta, we have Canadians. Well, so just like recall, when I'm saying Chris Sims says we have recall in Alberta. It's true. But it's unrealistic. I mean, it's just, it's almost impossible. And when you come to fixing Canada, we can fix Canada, right? Canadians further I go east, we can fix Canada. I go, yeah, but the actual constitutional changes were.

talking about are almost as impossible as like recall legislation. It's there. It looks nice on a piece of paper, but to actually get it done. So I think lots of Albertans have learned this and went, how the heck

are we going to enact the change we want to see happen? And it's not an easy answer. It's not easy because... Referendum on independence is not an easy thing to pull off. Heck, it could be just as hard, but it is something in their power to try and push for.

And even by doing that, they've had the, you know, First Nations say they weren't consulted, judicial system, shut it down, debank people, like the vilification of a whole group of people all over again after what we went through in COVID.

You're like, we're right back here, okay. I find it interesting that, you know, the further I go east, and it's not everybody because some people want to know

what they're thinking. A lot of people don't care what they're thinking. I'm like, sad. That's what I wanted to ask you, like you've been able to take the temperature. out east the way I was able to take the temperature out west. So do you see at least a little bit more awareness or a way?

I don't want to use that word. Do you see Ontarians starting to think a little bit like Albertans that, you know, you can't just vote and think that you're going to change things anymore, right? No matter what you believe in, you had to get a little bit into the ditches if you care about politics. I think the thing that has been the most. like eye-opening is I've talked to liberal voting people, NDP, those two in particular. And when I talk to them and I do, you know, I'm not going to attack you for voting liberal to NDP. That's okay. You know, like, and I just kind of prod. Not one of them are happy with

the way the country is going. All of them see the cost of living, the danger, the drugs, the made, like the even some of them brought up a bc right with with uh few simple title and being like that's a strange idea that's a strange you know and then and then now i now i'm in you know the ottawa region and i the next couple's bringing up whether or not on elections even an election and you're like somehow we have got so divided i you know that we think we're all all thinking differently. Certainly on Alberta independence, there's a lot of pushback, the further I go east. Fairness, I would say a ton of people don't care or have been told something by the media that probably just isn't true. Spoil brats. They got it so good. I don't know. Like, you know,

and you're like, really? Okay. What do, you know, what's so good about it? But regardless. That was the argument with Quebec, as I remember, except there was a media ecosystem. that was like, but you got to respect their choice, but Alberta doesn't get that generosity. No, it doesn't. And so it's been interesting. The Canadians I've talked to, I think everybody can see the country

is fundamentally broken in certain ways. They just don't feel powerless to enact the change. And I don't know where that leaves me, Sam, because I root for Alberta on this first referendum. Because realistically, you get 60%. Now, if I'm the government of Canada I have to back the Brinks truck

back it up to your doorstep and dump off everything because the writing's on the wall if you don't try and enact some things to keep Alberta in. So I look at it and I go Alberta should push as hard as it can right now because this will be the best bargaining position you ever have. If you ever

want to be similar to Quebec or Ontario or any of these big power play provinces that get a lot of say in the country, now's your time. And if you don't do that then nothing will change. It's incredible. For Canadians, I think you should be rooting on Alberta as well.

Not because you want Alberta to have all the power. You want it to be balance of power. And right now it's not. I, a thousand percent, endorse that. If I could talk to people across the country, like you have to respect. You've got to respect the earners. Getting into my hip-hop frame of mind here.

It's like you can't keep adopting this sort of, I don't know, dismissive attitude to the West. And I think the thing that might be seeping in and changing is, okay, if you buy the argument that Washington is about to march north and take over, so we need to secure our sovereignty through resource development and military spending, okay, if you're starting to think that way, if your elbows will let you, you know, that thought come into your brain, then you have to restructing.

respect Alberta. You have to. You have to. So start to like get over the cognitive dissonance. And I would agree with you. Like it's it's ridiculous that Alberta isn't isn't seen as a not only the top power broken province, but at the very least up there with Ontario and Quebec. Well, and we've talked about CCP and all the things that's done in our elections. Donald Trump, what he did in our last election was scary how quick everything changed by by insolving. inserting himself into the, you know, the public discourse around nominating the next leader of Canada. That was wild to me. You know, when we talk about all these shadow games, the CCP are doing and some of the hidden ways,

which is a very interesting strategy. Donald Trump, very loud and proud, and he came out and they made a campaign directly against him. And it worked. You're like, holy crap, you know. So you can be elbows up. You can be elbows down. You can be anywhere you ought to be. It's like if you want Canada to find a way,

you should be rooting on your own citizens and talking to them trying to understand what they're trying to do because the first go around isn't even a binding referendum. It's a way to... It's a way to signal... We're here. We're here.

Take us seriously. And if you do, maybe we can do some things to change the direction of our country because I go back to when I had you and Colonel David Redmond on, you both didn't paint a picture of where I want to go. It's like, no, we're going

into dark days. Can we change it? Not without a change of government. Are we going to change in government? No, we're not. Well, look where we are now. What are we doing? It feels pretty dark. I mean, if we want to first to your point about our election's real anymore,

never in my life have I lived through an election where a whole populace was given the idea that it was it was a mind virus that the U.S. wants to take us over by military force. They don't. They want us to pick up our

part of, you know, the NATO bargain. But Donald Trump carelessly, unless there's a deeper play that he had going on, changed an election. And as I say, it was a psychological operation from the Canadian

and the Chinese side because they took Trump's rhetoric and like a brilliant judo move, they used his momentum against him. They used used his momentum against him. They used the momentum that Mark Carney will be the brave central banking rock star fighter against Donald Trump, and he will get the best deal.

This was literally Chinese communist high-level propaganda that stepped in behind Carney. You wonder, though, if Trump knew that and kept going with it, because he could have changed tack. Now he gets to just hammer us on tariffs and is just going to shudder a whole bunch of industry in Canada over this. people are more willing to jump to the United States than I've ever seen in my lifetime. You know, like COVID was a time where people wanted to leave. Now people are talking about it openly all over the place. One of the other things that going across the country, everybody finds out I'm married to an American, and they're always like, what the hell are you still doing here?

I love it here. Love my country. I don't want to go somewhere else. I don't know. Look at this. Is there a better answer? I don't know if there's a better answer, but certainly we can give the CCP and, and the Canadian liberals say, well, they used his momentum.

But Donald Trump isn't a dumb guy either. No, that's the part that I still to this day can't figure out, and I don't think anyone has. If there was anything deeper behind what he was saying, did he really wanted to stabilize Canada that much and have, like... Well, he certainly knows some of the things going on, right? As far as the involvement of the CCP and everything like that. Oh, right.

Some of his comments, you can see it where, you know, when he says, when Carney goes to DeVos and makes his middle power speech and says everything, but the U.S. is the enemy of the world without coming out and saying it. And then Trump comes out and posts to his account, you know, China will not ever own Canada or get even close. So of course his office and the CIA know how saturated and how involved in Carney's campaign the CCP was. But, you know, if we really want to put on our tinfoil hat to, Do Donald Trump and his favored oil companies, do they have designs up north and do they want to stabilize us that much that he did want to wreck our last election that much?

I don't know, but it just a lot isn't making sense. The one thing I know, Jason, my North Star is it doesn't matter. The CCP is still the enemy of the free world and Canada is among Western nations, probably among the most deeply compromised and captured by the CCP. So whatever's happening in Washington, you know, I mean, to get on a tangent with this trade deal, Canada should take a bit of a hit because if we make, if we get better security integration, you know, if we root out the CCP influence, we can recover from that. We're great innovators. Just what we can't do is have our institutions undermined by a shadow war, which is what is what. happening right now. Yeah, well, I feel better if we had different people making that deal, but that's the cards we've been done by my son or Trump made sure that that didn't happen,

whether intended or not. Well, I appreciate you sitting down and doing this Sam. Any final thoughts for for the audience before I let you out of here? No, it's just great, great to see you on my for now home turf in Ottawa when I was out on your turf in in Calgary before. And the message to Canadians is, yeah, whether, you know, whether you think Alberta should be standing up and going its own way. I don't personally think that. No matter what these threats are in front of us, and I do think it's dark, it is the eighth or ninth inning. I still believe in Canada, and I want more Canadians to understand what the real threats in the world are and how they can actually not only understand that, but change their local writing and get a real candidate in that. will support them. That's what I want to happen in Canada.

Sure. But I think a lot of Albertans, I know they are. I know they're proud Canadians. They just go. Maybe they're realists. They're saying it's not going in a good direction. It isn't going in a good direction. We've agreed on that. So how do we, you know, people always get involved where they feel like they can enact some change. So, you know, Jordan Peterson would say cleaning up your room. Very simple action that any one person can take. Lots of people get involved in the local, the local. think globally act locally they get involved in their their local boards right yeah and they start to have some change well on a on a canadian scale it's a tough thing after the last election for

albertans or westerners to be like we're going to have any sort of change anytime soon it doesn't mean we can't and so i think for a lot of them they're taking change where they can where they can act which is in alberta they can force a hand they have Mitch sylvester ran the the um you know, the signatures is a group of people. They collected, you know, I forget what the final count was. It was $302,000. But once they'd gone through and knocked off a whole bunch, I forget what the final count was,

but it was hundreds of thousands of people signed that thing. And you go, they're trying to force a hand to try and change things because they do not like the direction it's going. It is willful blindness to steal your term to just think it's going to get better. We're going to just keep marching this way. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't mean that you wish ill on Canada. Some people might.

But overall, it's like, we're going that way. We have, we got a course correct. We've got to do something. And Albertans, or at least a chunk of Albertans, have picked a way that a lot of Easterners or other promises probably will not understand. But it's a way of like, this isn't good. We got to do something. Like, we're going off the cliff. Like, after me, you and Colonel David Redmond talked, I was like, bread lines.

What are we talking about here? We got to shock the system before we get there. Yeah, I mean, that's the one thing I come back to. Sometimes you wake up in night and think, have I been too dark in my diagnosis or my assessments? And then I wake up. And you go, no. No, no, not at all.

Just the stories keep coming and they keep proving. So before you let me go, could I put you on the spot? Sure. Will you make a call? What's the percentage going to be on that? this pre-referendum vote. I personally hope it's 60% on the pre-react. Because when you look at it, like, logically, it's non-binding.

So if you don't think Alberta should leave, but you think... Pretty much. And sorry, Sam didn't have his mic, obviously. You can get a mulligan on it. You can get a mulligan on it. can force Ottawa's hand

it would be the best you give Alberta all the chips okay we just voted 60 what are you going to do to turn that 60 into 40 or 30

to me that's and you know you schedule it out for whatever it is a year later maybe it's two years later I don't know what the

the legal ramifications of actually scheduling out because they've changed laws now but regardless to me that makes a ton of sense

some people think and I just disagree that once you open up the door to divorce, and I'm putting that in pre-emphasis, that there's no, close in the door. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm married, and if I'm upset or my wife is upset, and they want and let me know how upset they are. Yeah.

Now, I've never had to worry about the divorce thing, at least I don't think I have, but they tell. It's communication. And when you will not listen to the other side, well, what do you think happens? The divorce doesn't happen eventually? Come on. We're talking about 40 years from now. Eventually, it's just, it's gone. Well, then we better start having a real conversation very soon.

And if I was in Alberta, that's exactly what I'd be doing. I'd be like, I'm going to vote that I want to leave so that the powers of B can start to have that conversation. You've got some action items to work on in the next two years. 100%. Because there's way too many young Canadians, Canadians with businesses. They're all leaving. People are moving to Alberta or moving south or elsewhere.

Portugal. I don't know. Yeah. This is a real thing. and I lived it in Vancouver. I lived that wave of young people that got priced out for the reasons I say. Foreign governments and crime flooding the city.

Let's not talk about bailouts to the Vancouver. That's a different story. You know, it's funny, I guess I should have realized this, but maybe sitting here, it just dawned on me for Ontarioans and when I've been asking about Alberta. The thing about the last time around was it was right across the shore from you that we're talking about going. you know so this is i assume that would have been very personal because it was so close and the

history of of uh ontario and quebec for canada that like that is you know in the histories those are the two distinct spots this one being this far west off in the boonies if you would probably is a little different for people to the east i'd say so yeah i think you got it there that you got upper Canada and lower Canada. We're very invested, and that means the national media at the highest levels was all over it. Not to, this would be a major story,

but I do agree to a certain percentage. It will be way out there. Do you not think that if Alberta voted 60% on a referendum to leave, that big conversations would start happening, and they would have to dance a different tune? Like the other thing we could agree, or maybe not agree.

My answer is, yeah, They would. They'd throw on the table is Donald Trump would start doing Donald Trumpian things, though, too. And now it would have its own cascading effect. But I look at it like doing nothing and acting like it's going to get better. It doesn't make any sense to me. No, we have one major driver, which is Donald Trump. And so supposedly, if you believe Mark Carney, you know, out in Quebec or Newfoundland with a major new energy,

that they're changing or they're working on pipelines in Alberta. So something's happening. Alberta, you're right, is a major, another major driver there. So does it force Canada to grow up and realize its potential? You know, I like to be optimistic, but I still don't see the conditions on the ground in our political class to make that happen because, as I know very well, there are protected business and political elites that are benefiting, just very nicely from selling off the country to China.

You know, while the rest of, well, you know, most of the 40 million won't benefit. The people that have been running this country for a long time are benefiting. I do believe that that's still the major driving force of our country. All right. Any final thoughts again? Because now every time you start tired, I do. We'll talk for another three hours.

So I've just, it's been great to see you out here. I've had a good time. Well, what we're going to do is, And just, again, thanks for Sam for sitting down with us, sitting down with me. And we're going to flip over to Substack. So if you are a paid member, you can see 10 quick bonus questions. Have a little bit of fun with Sam. Some things that maybe will be CCP related.

Maybe they won't. But once again, that'll be over on Substack. So if you aren't over there, folks, make sure you head over to Substack. And check out Sam's. The Bureau.com News. That's right, on Substack as well.