Shaun Newman Podcast - #1123 - Marina Wright

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Marina Wright is a horse trainer, English riding instructor, and mounted archery instructor based in Farmington, Prince Edward Island. She is a lifelong horsewoman who grew up riding and later returned to farm life. She is a CFMA-certified Mounted Archery Instructor and a registered English riding coach with Equestrian Canada. Her teaching emphasizes Pair Bond Training (building two-way communication and mutual care with horses based on equine behavior), positive reinforcement, and horse-centered methods so that mounts enjoy the work. Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Longo. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre Corey. Hi, this is Frank Peretti. This is Daniel Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. How's everybody doing today? Hopefully you had a good weekend. Thursday we went tuna fishing. It was a beautiful day.

Beautiful day on the ocean. I can't complain. And then since then, It has been a three-day absolute torrential downpour storm here on the island. And that's been an interesting thing. We'll get to that here in a little bit. Let's start, though, with silver gold bowl. Okay, when it comes to precious metals, anywhere in Canada, anywhere in North America,

heck, it feels like anywhere in the world here. Silvergold bowl is the company I'm going to direct you to. Silvergoldbull.com. I haven't checked the charts in a bit, so pulled those up. You can do that right on their website. The silver wagon sitting at $91.71.76. That's Canadian, folks. And then gold sitting at 61.32 an ounce.

All right, once again, in Canadian. And just looking at, I just wanted to pull up. I'm like, come on, here we, come on, come on. There we go. The last year of prices, you know, you go a year back. And it was $5,000, essentially, 5,018. That's for gold, okay? Just to give you a little perspective, a little bit of pricing.

We haven't checked the wagons here in a little bit. We haven't checked the old silver wagon, okay? $91. This morning. So when it comes to questions around buying, selling, storing precious metals, silver gold bull, they're based out of Calgary now. They get their certain Rocky Mountain House. And, well, go on their website, open an account,

ships directly to your doorstep. Or, you know, probably if you got, Questions? Text or email, Graham. It's down in the show notes. He loves hearing from all of you. If you're sitting in Alberta, Bull Valley Credit Union, their bank, obviously, it's all about lending deposits and real financial advice. You can open accounts, talk through lending options, and can help with banking, all in space design for conversations, not transactions. If you want smarter banking with gold, silver, Bitcoin, sound money and personal freedom, think BVCU, and Bull. And Bowelie Credit Union and Silver Gold Bull are the title sponsors of the Cornerstone

forum, which returns May 15th, 2020. Okay, May 15th, 2027. So mark that on your calendars and Bow Valley Credit Union and Silver Gold Bowl bringing, well, going to be back a part of, you know, well, this will be the fourth one. Fourth one, man, where the time goes, I don't know. If you're interested in firearms in Canada, I've got to go all the way back to my hometown of Lloydminster,

profitriver.com, okay, they're the major retailer of firearms, optics, and accessories serving all of Canada. you can go right online. You can do everything online with Profit River. They'll ship it right to you anywhere in Canada. It doesn't matter where you're at. And their selection is top notch. You can also call.

You can also, if you're driving through Lloyd, stop in and see the showroom because it's nice. It's impressive. And do all your things with Profitriver.com. Carly Clossin and the team over Windsor Plywood, builders of the podcast studio table for everything would. These are the guys. I tell you what, in a storm like PEI,

I think we're just getting out of it. as I record this, but the storm we've been having, you want some structures that aren't going to blow over, and that means character would, and that's what Windsor Plywood does. Character would. If you're in Lloyd Minster, make sure to stop in 3605. 51st Avenue. Say how to Carly Clossam and the team at Windsor Plywood. Okay, if you are watching on Spotify, YouTube, RumbleX, Facebook Substack, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to leave a review. Substack, there is the weekend review. It comes out Sundays. You've got the bonus questions that have been pretty much airing on Substack for paid subscribers. You've got the Tanner Nadeh Masterclass. All these

things are happening on Substack. So if you're looking for, you know, some different things on the guess. Some of it's paid. Some of it is free. But Substack, you know, make sure you sign up and that way you don't miss anything. If you have signed up and you're missing the emails because I've heard this too, make sure to check your junk email and make sure. it doesn't go there. Yeah. Finally, I've been having,

so, you know, like been in PEI now for, well, roughly four days. And it's interesting, been talking to a lot of

probably business folks, business-minded guys, you know, potato farmers, that's coming up this week, fishermen, but like younger fishermen. And when I sit and listen to them,

They all understand if Alberta leaves, there is no country of Canada. Isn't that interesting? And they all go, we need to hit rock bottom. And they're rock bottom as if Alberta leaves. So you go, I don't know. I think the East gets it. I know I'm probably getting a select group of people I'm talking to, but in the people I've chatted with, you know,

I've been waiting here, I don't know, some of the things I honestly heard in northern Ontario, which is like, you know, you're spoiled, you don't know how good you got it. Like, I can rattle off all the things I was hearing up there. But out on the east, it seems like they know. That's just my perception. Maybe I'm wrong. The other thing is, is, man, we have eaten like kings here, fresh lobster. Holy moly.

That was something. And then finally, the, you know, the. the storm. You know, so we got it in a Thursday morning. We got a bright and early so we could go tuna fishing, which was super cool. So we went out, you know, on the sea. And since then, it has been a giant storm. You know, like north of us got five inches of rain and like less than 24 hours. Maybe I'm overstating that. Maybe it was just slightly over 24 hours. It was a ton of rain. Um, and what's been interesting about it, I was saying to Pat last night is normally out on the prairies, like when a storm rolls in, you know, it goes for what, 12 hours, maybe a touch longer, but, you know, it almost

blows itself out and then it's just done. This has blown itself out like four times, and then you think it's over, and then it just starts right back up. So that's been, it's been interesting being on the island. I'm literally staring out the window at the sea, and she is angry today, my friends. Regardless, it's been a ton of fun to be out on PEI. We push off here on Tuesday to roughly start heading towards Newfoundland. So, yeah, lots of interesting conversations, I think coming for all of you. Happy Monday, we're enjoying our time on PEI. We've been spoiled here with Pat and Laura taking us in and showed it to them for housing us and then, you know, taking care of us and showing us some things. And it's been, it's been super cool. All right,

that's what I got for you today. Let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a horse trainer, English riding instructor and mounted archery instructor. I'm talking about Marina Wright. So buckle up, here we go. Well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Marina Wright.

Thank you, ma'am, for doing this. Thank you. You've got to tell the audience a little bit about yourself. I don't know where we start. I know you're originally from Ontario, and I truckle like on this road trip because I come to PEI and obviously people are going to get to hear Laura, a spoiler alert. But I'm like it's two ladies that aren't born and raised in PEI but have found their new home here and everything else. So walk us through a bit of boat who Marina is so people can kind of get a feel for it.

Well, okay, hard one to start with, but important to start with, I guess. Yes, I moved here from Ontario in January 2020, unrelated to the world events. Unrelated? Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so why did you pick here? Well, one thing is I have always required farm security before I would have children as a horse-obsessed individual. That was important to me. And Ontario was very expensive, you know, for someone like me and my husband.

So my husband got a business opportunity in PEI, which ultimately didn't work out, but that brought us him here in 2018. And he was here until I also joined him in 2020. And we just, we liked it. Like we, I was feeling like where we were in Ontario was really becoming more commercialized. and we live somewhere very, a really beautiful area in the escarpment, and I could just feel the buzzing coming in around me. So we liked the pace here, and it just felt like a good place to come. So we found a farm that we could afford,

and yeah, we went that route when his business arrangement didn't work out, which, you know, ultimately all worked out for the best. And you said you wanted before you'd have kids, because people won't know this, but you're a new mother or relatively, three and one year old. Yeah. That you needed farm security. You know, when I listened to women today, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. I don't think many are going, I need farm security before I have kids.

So walk me through that. I just, I've, my entire life wanted my own property. One, because of how I didn't feel comfortable in the systems in place in our society, you know, our food, just the, you know, rat race, the nine to five. So I, as much as some people tried to talk me out of it saying, it's all in your frame of mind, I needed my own, like, piece of land for me to achieve my version of peace so I could have my own food. I could have my horses at my property.

I could finally make more of a business out of that because it's hard to have a business with that if you're renting places. And I knew that if I didn't get a farm before I had kids, that chances were very high I would not get a farm. I just, and I think that I was right. Now that I have a one-year-old and three-year-old, that's all about them.

Yeah. Motherhood, fatherhood changes things. Yeah. Did you grow up on a farm there? Ah, yes. Well, I grew up in the city, like in Oshawa, Ontario. Okay. And when I was about eight or maybe six or seven, my parents bought a 25-acre property in Port Hope.

And we, like, I was a girl that was always in dresses, would not go down slides because they were dirty. And we bought this farm. And suddenly I was like, this is, I am a creature of the land. I am an animal. I am catching rabbits and snakes and you're not going to find me all day long until it's suppertime. Like they'd send me out with a walkie-talkie and I thought I was all on my own but they

could, you know, see me from the trailer of the house. So we built a house there and we were putting up fencing for cattle and thus the promise that I was also going to get a pony. And then my parents got divorced. So that was like my parents' divorce was very, very hard for me. and so maybe there's like some trauma tied into me being on land, you know what I mean with the timing. But yeah, I got the divorce took me away from where I knew I always meant to be,

was meant to be, you know. And so I guess since I got pulled back into a town, I'd just been fighting my way back. You've been waiting, you're waiting to get back on the land. So when do you run into ponies or horses, right? Because, like, you know, sitting there the other night and they bring your name up. Yeah. You start talking about a bunch of different things.

And then they start talking about horse whispering. And then they had these couple, you know, in my opinion, wild stories. Yeah. You know, pretty unruly horses coming in and Marina walks in and calms him down. I'm like, oh, interesting. That's okay. And then, I mean, there's other stories mixed in there too. And I'm like, oh, this lady sounds interesting.

Where does the horses begin? Because if you were on the land but you never got the pony, and you move back into the city, when do horses enter the picture? Well, my mom started me on riding horses when I was six. So before we got this land, I had already begun my obsession. And it was like from the moment I started an obsession. So I just took riding lessons. And they had told me when we were building this farm that I was going to get a horse.

So when they divorced and we were no longer on this land, I basically cried every single night until I was 16 because that's how much I wanted a horse. And I was so singularly focused on it. Yeah. So, well, I cautionary tale, don't care. You tell your kids you're getting them. Because my daughter right now is horse obsessed.

When she walked into Pat and Laura's and saw the ponies, I think she jumped about 15. feet in the air. And then of course we probably took her out, uh, fishing for tuna for an entire day. Yes. And she whined about that the entire day on the boat, right? Like when do we get to see the points? When do we get to see the points? Um, so you, like, you're saying you didn't, like you started riding at six. Yeah. But you didn't, when, like, did you always have a way around horses? Well, I think I've always had an interesting awareness of how my behavior affects others around me.

Walk me through this. So you're saying just people in general. Or how other people affect me. Like I guess I would definitely class myself as an empathetic person. Like I, a story that pops into my mind is being at a family dinner and there's obvious tension between one of my aunts and my uncles. Sure.

And it just, that tension almost ruins the meal. Actually give me a headache. I, like, was sick in my head from what I was experiencing. So, and I had a mother that didn't, that validated that, I guess. Like, she really, she didn't shove those things aside. She, she agreed with me that I was being affected by what was going on around me. So maybe that helped me trickle to, you know, I was at a horse camp when I was, I was nine. And I remember everybody telling this, everybody, everybody loved this one girl. I love this one girl.

She was just joy, this girl. And I remember everybody saying, she just smiles all the time. Like, we just love her. She just caught a great smile. And I, I smile all the time now. And you know why? Because of that interaction as a child, because I learned that helped her life be easier. That's the key. I have found life difficult. being submerged in people, maybe because as people, we are often incongruent. We are often pretending to be something we're not, or pretending we feel another way that we're not.

And horses also see that without any question. So me and horses have that in common, and I was born with this in some way. And I think that is why horses and I mesh so well, because I am very horse-like. like in my own nature. Don't take my pause for not thinking you're saying anything wow. To me,

I'm like very interesting. I was telling you the story of Dylan Mulvaney and the Bud Light Can and the NHL guy's not being able to laugh at it. And I thought about that for a long time. What a strange life to live where you can't laugh at what is apparently funny. Yeah. Or apparently absurd. Right.

And, you know, like on this show, I hang out with a guy named twos every Friday where he just, he blasts the absurd to almost points where I'm like, ah, that might be a little bit far. Yeah. It might be a little bit far. Yet we live in a world where, you know, everybody's got to kind of like nod their head and like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's just terrible that the men are trying to get in the WMBA, but they don't want to say anything. They're afraid of their shot. I mean, all the corporate. And we've built this world.

that really reinforces that you should live in what you're talking about, which if you're feeling that, what a strange sensation, then. Yeah. Yeah. So when you can see that with people, before we get to horses,

do you then look for people who are just like themselves? You know, like I watch you and Laura. Yeah. Or actually last night we were playing cards and the group, I was like, man, it's like ruthless, but like awesome in a way.

You're just like, this is interesting. When you sit or when I sit, sorry, folks, I'm watching you and Laura go back and forth. I'm like, there's two people that get along great. That's, you know. So when you can see what people are hiding, not hiding, like something's off. Do you look for the people or just like, I don't know, the word that comes to mind is genuine. Yeah. Well, I would say that I'm overly optimistic and I usually give people more of a benefit of the doubt.

I'll see the positive in someone and it will overshadow maybe some key things that I don't like at first. I'm not that clear. My positivity is a little bit too optimistic, I would say, sometimes. The world could use more of that. Yeah, I agree. And so Laura, to me, is like a wolf in human form. And I have always felt more sensitive. and soft than a wolf.

And so I've always gravitated to having people like Laura in my life because they've helped me to be more able to be who I am and follow what I believe to be right, even though I've, because it would be easier and more comfortable for me to just nod, would be easier and more comfortable for me to just smile and nod and go along with anything. That would be easier and more comfortable for me.

So, yeah, people like Laura, who basically will fight everything, help me embody that when I think it's really important, you know? And so, yes, I definitely, I do gravitate towards genuine people. I gravitate towards people that other people think are a little crazy, because I think we're all a little bit crazy. And the best ones are the crazy ones. I like the word eccentric. Accentric.

Right? They just see things going on that most don't see. And you're like, you're interesting. I want to talk to you. Yeah. I mean, the wolf, that's interesting. I mean, I think we've all been trying to relearn that. Yeah.

And what I mean by that, folks, is like, you know, if you believe that there's a ton of propaganda on a lot of things that are upside down maybe, you've been getting that propaganda since you're a kid, which means it's been kind of like bred into you or maybe fed into your diet. And you have to wean yourself off. And then you've got to retrain that it's okay to be disagreeable. Yes.

Because I've traveled the world. What's the greatest thing about today? Oh, you're just so nice. Right. You're just so nice. And then we sit there and we look at herself, why are the states so different? And we go down the, you know,

while they fought for their independence and everything. Well, no. That's part of it. but they have disagreements on air all the time. Like it's just part of who they are. So it feels, at least from where I said, it seems like it's like they're modeling it where we model not saying anything.

And so a lady like Laura in particular, but I meet them all the time now, is they, they just, no, we're not doing this. And that's a very interesting trait. I always, I don't always. I had a guy on, Tanner. apple game. He's this big, massive man. Looks like he's from back in the days of the Vikings. Okay. He's talking about pedophiles. He's like, we should just hang him high. And my first thought

was like, well, that seems a little harsh, right? Like I'm going, and then I think about that now, five years later, roughly, and I go, oh my God, like, or in COVID. When I first started doing the interviews of COVID, I listened to myself and I'm like, man, it is just, you got to untrain that. So being around a wolf makes sense to me. Yeah. Right? And I think that's a great topic to touch on like all of us are conditioned by somebody. Conditioning. That's the word I was looking for.

You cannot be raised by anybody without being conditioned and that's okay. Who cares if your parents' views don't align with who you are. It's all, each of us has a journey as a human to discover who we really are and thus take the difficult journey of shedding the conditioning that we were raised in and, you know, going on the path that's truly yours. And so, like, I feel like the world right now is like, oh, don't condition your children to be a certain way or do condition them to be a certain way.

And, yeah, everybody's got their own journey. And the difficulties that each individual faces is perfect for them. And we shouldn't make it easier. We should just, you know, support them as we can, if I'm making sense. Yeah, you are. Yeah, you are. Sorry, I'm a man. Oh, I find what you're talking about would be fascinating. I'm just thinking, I had Yoda.

I'm like, do or do not, there is no try. It's like you're going to condition your kids no matter what, right? It's which way you, you know, a ton of people are viewing the school system or the health care system or, I don't know, for me, like all of politics. It was just like, there's something drastically wrong. Right. Specifically in Canada. I can't sit here and talk about every country.

I haven't been in every country, but certainly here in Canada, I'm just like, sounds off. So then you're going to do things that are going to steer them away from being indoctrinated or a condition of it. But that's going to set up down the road, their own set of problems that your child is going to have to work through. No different than what you're talking about with yourself and your parents getting divorced and how. You know, you step through that. Yeah. Yeah. I think my biggest blessing in life is that I do take every single thing that happens to me

as an opportunity to learn and grow. And what could I have learned from that? And that, I think, is maybe the most important thing to teach your children because then they can address their challenges with curiosity and resiliency instead of the shame and the guilt and kind of the Victor Frankel, you know, every day can show you the meaning of life essentially, right? Like I'm paraphrasing, but, you know, like if you look at every problem with a little bit of optimism, right?

Yeah. Like, well, what am I trying to learn today? Yeah. Although that can be very difficult. We were broke down on this trip. And that isn't an easy. It's an easy to. No.

know, did you see the U.S. Navy, I'm going to say admiral, but I'm probably getting his position wrong. He'd get asked about, you know, if Donald Trump gave him an order to invade Canada. Okay. What would he do? And he says to the reporter, it's an emotional question. Yeah. And then he kind of laughs awkwardly and he tries to like, I'm not saying you're, you know, and I'm like, no, that's exactly right. We're so emotional here in Canada in the wrong sort of way right now. Right. And when you have problems, reason it is we get emotional. And you just have to take a step back and like look at that and go, why does this bug me so much?

Yeah. Yeah. And as my life experience has been, I was absolutely ruled by my emotions growing up. And that is something like that, me having a good understanding of my emotions and allow, and kind of becoming in control of them. has been a big part of my development. Okay, so how did you, you're saying you're ruled by your emotions.

What moment did you realize then you're being ruled by your motions? And how did you take a step back and go, oh, man? It may have been not until I was like 19 and I took a equine facilitated learning program where I was learning how to work with horses to facilitate other people's personal development, not as a therapy, but as a complement to therapy because I wasn't a psychologist or anything like that.

So you were taking a course to work with horses, but bring people alongside that were going through a difficult period in their life and allow the horse to kind of give them therapy. Yes. You're right. Yeah. We'd set up little activities where the horse is really, in the program I took, the horse was very free to interact as it wanted.

It wasn't a tool. like we didn't lead it around and it wasn't just like this animal on the end of the rope. It was free to do whatever and we would just have to, we would interpret what was happening or we wouldn't really interpret it. We would just ask the person how, what the horse did, what it made them feel or what it brought up for them. And through this program, one of the big things was learning the messages behind emotions. And that was life-changing for me because it identified. One of the things we did was identify what every emotion feels like in your body.

And so, you know, like, for me, anxiety would be like fluttering is probably pretty common. Like, fluttering in my stomach and not breathing. Yeah. Yeah. And then practicing the ability to bring that feeling up and then actually breathe it out. And like, what does anger feel like? So we would spend a couple, we would spend some time actually drawing out and identifying where in our body things felt and breathing them out.

And it's important because a lot of people get their emotions confused. They may feel anger or think they're angry when they're actually fearful because they haven't addressed the fear and it snowballs and it becomes more than it was. So along with feeling the emotions, we also identified the message being like fear is, I need to move myself to a position of safety, like literally or emotionally or physically, or physically mentally. And so if you listen to the information the emotion is bringing to you and actually respond to it, like your body wants you to because we're animals to me.

We're animals and we, I think, are so disconnected from our body and the planet. This all comes together. So when I learned that anger was somebody is crossing a boundary, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. On the graduation day of going through this program, I also follow this other train of thought that emotions, if are not dealt with, settle into your body and become a physical ailment. And I happen to have warts on my foot. and they are labeled as festering anger. So when I graduated that course, that night, my foot was itchy.

And I really felt like, I've really got my shit together now. And I scratched my foot and I scratched the warts off and they were gone. So, yeah, that's that story. Hmm. Yeah, like I go back, I used to ask a question once. right in the middle of COVID or just after COVID probably. No, it's just after COVID about, you know, what was your red pill moment?

And I forget the guest. Somebody can text me if they remember, but he talked about 9-11. And I was expecting building seven, you know, like something along the, and what he said was the way it made me feel. I'm like, what do you mean? I go, what do you mean?

And he goes, I was ready to kill anyone. Like I was ready to, you just ship me up. And I went, whoa, whoa, why am I having me? having that feeling. Yeah. And here I sit in 2026. And on this trip, I've been trying my best to not ever go on social media, but certainly just like, they're trying to inflame us right now.

I mean, like, if you, if you're struggling and being upset with boomers, or you're a boomer and you're upset with the whatever crowd, freedom crowd, the Alberta, you know, like I've ran into some people who have thought Alberta is selfish. I'm like, man, that is an emotional response. The response probably should be like, why are they upset? Right. That might be a good start. Yeah.

You know, and I've found lots of different people every which way. But the emotional thing is interesting because social media gives a way in which they can try and push it all the time. When it doesn't work, they're going to try something else. And then, oh, that didn't work. Oh, but they kind of like this. And it's constantly, the algorithm is constantly trying to poke and prod your emotions. Yeah. Right.

Everything is. Yeah. The news. Anything that we're consuming. Well, I mean, Dawn Henley had the song, Dirty Laundry, you know. And when you listen to that, I mean, that's like 50 years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, it's explaining it right there, right? If it bleeds, it leads. Yes. Nothing's changed. Yeah. In our lifetime that isn't happened well before us. Mm-hmm. It's the emotional things, but that's a very difficult thing to master.

Yes, and the weaponization of all the good things, I think, in the media. Weaponization of all the good things. That's a big blanket statement, I guess. But like, for example, well, I see everything I learned in the Equine Facilitated Learning course was really good stuff. Like people take an accountability for their own issues and yet being empathetic and caring for others and being their authentic selves, like all these buzzwords that came from really good places and people with really good intentions, I hear all the time in the media like empathy

and like empathy is being used against us to freeze us because we have to care about somebody else so much that we can't make any moves because we would hurt someone else. You know what I mean? I see that. So I hear a lot of things. I'm truckling because you're saying, hearing that now. You're saying a bunch of things that I was trying to put words on. Yeah. I think it was this morning or last night. I can't remember.

We were in a conversation. We talked about surviving, not thriving. Yes. And I was just like, ugh. And Laura's like, what?

And I'm like, I'm tired of all the slogans, but it's the buzzwords. Yeah. Because they take them. Yeah. And then they use them again. And I'm just like,

and all the people that are just not thinking at all, spouting out all these words. And, you know, they're, yes. Yeah, buzzwords. They don't have the meaning anymore.

They take something beautiful and they take all the meaning out of it. Yeah. And then they try and jam it down your throat. Mm-hmm. And you're just like, I just... Mm-hmm. It's a very good tactic to freeze people. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, because if you're frozen, you're not doing things. No. Yeah. Yeah. I keep seeing a horse walk around behind, like, a little ways out there. And I'm like, I don't know how we got, bounce around. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast.

That's what we do. You start, obviously, like, you know, when I go back to your story, you're like, yeah, we got divorced. I never got the pony. I always won the pony. But then you bring up horse camp. You bring up, you're riding at six. You know, now you're taking a course on emotional, I don't know even what to call it, but bringing people in as emotional support with that. So you've been around horses all your life.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you talk about, like, I can feel people's emotions and horses can feel that too. Yeah. Yeah. With horses, did you have like an aha moment, light bulb go on, we were standing around with a horse and you just like, oh my God, I think I get you. No, because I think they were always a really necessary emotional support animal for me.

I think that I just, they helped me live. They helped me survive my childhood in teenage years. I don't know what, I don't know if I would still be alive if I didn't have horses. I just, that's how difficult I found life. Yes, yeah. But I had my horses. Sorry, is that, is that because your parents got divorced and that was just a rocky time? Or was it, was it other thing?

It was like the root, yeah, the root really is my discomfort around mass groups of people that are not, present that are in their mind doing whatever. They're not right here in front of me. Like, I can't talk to someone, Sean, who is sitting there in front of me going, uh, tomorrow I have to do this. Yet they're asking me questions, you know, but I know that they're not listening to me. You have felt that, surely. Surely, but I've also been that person.

We're also like, where did I go? Why am I so busy? And me too. My wife gets upset with me because there are times where I can be this president in an interview. But you think about it, like I sit down the table. It's almost like I'm setting the stage. Yes.

And then the phone goes away. I'm like, it can go off as much as it wants. It ain't going to bug me. The problem I have when I'm interviewing somebody is to quiet my brain. But then that's part of the beauty of a podcast. It's like, oh, why do they say that? Yes, you need a little bit going on. So it's like you've got to be careful.

But yeah, that's fair. I can relate to that though. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's, I'm a mother now, so I definitely have lots more time where I'm like, there's too many things going on. Sure. And I'm not as present as I used to be. I've always wondered, you know, like, sitting in my seat, I interview people for a living. So I, you know, you sit and you're like, oh, wow, that's, that's, and then you go out and you talk to people.

And some people, well, maybe all of us have this problem. We just want somebody to listen. I get told lots by lots of wonderful people, even some people on the strip. I don't really have much to say. And I sit there and in my brain, I'm going, that's a lot of BS. Because I know the quietest people

actually do want to be heard. And they just need somebody to sit and listen. And then some of us have thought our thoughts out really well and others have not thought they're, they actually, it's like you know, you got to get the gears going. You know, like the conditioning is real. Yeah, yeah. I once interviewed a 98-year-old man.

And it was a very difficult interview because I got thinking about it afterwards. He hadn't used his tongue in so long, you know? Like he just took time and effort. And then three days later, he called me and tried my ear off for like an hour because I think he'd gotten the, you know, you think you get to an age where people kind of overlook what you have to say because you're in a hospital bed or you can't move that well. and so they just assume you have nothing, I don't know, I'm just, you have nothing to say. Well, that happens in a daily life.

So when you go back to your kid or your childhood, you're going like, you could feel that like, people aren't even listen to what I'm saying. Yeah. They don't care. Yeah. What the heck am I doing here? Yes. Yeah.

Then you go around a horse and the horse is intuitive to that. Yeah. And it becomes like, this is my happy spot, I assume. Yeah, they are present. You feel it. So I think that is probably the biggest draw to them, maybe. be. And I just romanticized it a lot, like reading books when I was a kid. So that romantic edge has served me because I can do all sorts of things with a horse without ropes that,

you know, other people could never do. And I got laughed at a lot for it. You know, actually, that's probably another big path for why I am an individual, so to speak. Like, I've always in the horse world liked to do the things. thing that wasn't the mainstream. Such as? Such as, like, I was obsessed with working with my horses at Liberty Free, meaning there's no ropes and they have space to leave me from a younger kid. Whereas a lot of, as you're a kid in horses, especially when you don't have horses, you

go to a lesson program and you ride horses. And it's really all about riding. And, you know, you ask, tell them. is the style of communication with the horses. And so, you know, if they don't do what you ask with a light suggestion, it gets harder, and you get harder, and you hit them or kick them or whatever to get them to go, for example. So that's, that, it's, it's a, it's a industry steeped in a lot of tradition,

and over my lifetime, a lot of, uh, uh, uh, Innovation, I guess, has happened. So my focus was more on, like, I want my horse to enjoy my time with me. A lot of people's horse experiences, their horse is hard to catch because they don't want to come out and be ridden. I would never want to work with a horse that didn't want me to put its halter on. Like, that's red flag number one. I'm not going to go ride that horse. My horses should all see me coming with a halter and be like, fuck yes, marina's here.

Who's at the gate first? So my focus with the horses has been like, how can I really get into their heart and get them to participate with me? Not that they have to because they're my animal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's made me do different things.

And I was lucky to, and there's a lot of peer pressure at Barnes. If you're the odd one out doing your own little thing and everyone else is doing the normal kick pull riding lesson. And I was lucky that I boarded when I finally got my horse. I was at a barn that was privately owned by this wonderful lady named Judy. And I got to be there alone. So I got to mess around without the pressure. Because at that age, I would have had a hard time doing my thing.

How old? 16. Yeah. And then by the time I'd got into other barns instead, it didn't bother me at all that I was doing my weird thing while people were going out and riding. because I actually spent three years not riding because I didn't think, I wasn't sure if it was ethical. I wasn't sure if I should really be having this animal carry me.

Yeah, and I have since decided it can be done ethically. I do, I love it, I ride, but it's not, I would still have horses if I never rode. The peer pressure thing and being able to try new things and do things, that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, like, yeah.

Pure pressure is a very real thing. Yeah. But it's funny to me that you're like, I don't know if it's ethical to ride a horse. Yeah. I assume in a horse barn of riding where they're teaching this is the way. Yeah.

That was, you know, like an eccentric thought. Yeah, yeah. People probably went, what am I'm not talking about? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, What would convince you that riding a horse can be done ethical?

Ethically? I sought out people that I thought were doing things that were really, I'll say horse-centered. Like the way that they worked with the horses was really honoring the horse. Instead of, a lot of our training works against the innate instincts of the horses and kind of like pounds them out. So then the horses become very compliant, I guess. And they don't, it's an interesting reflection to the rest of the world.

They become very compliant and they don't have any drive to do what it is that they might want to do. They're just like, they're just a robot for the people. And I wanted to work with horses in a way that they were alive. Their personality got to come up. Yes, yes. Yeah. And so I learned. from a lady in Carolyn in California. I stayed there for three months with Carolyn Resnick,

and she is an amazing horsewoman who just had a very unique opportunity growing up in California in a desert where they had no fences. So she, as a child, learned to work with horses in a way that they really, like, loved. So she didn't have them, you know, in a fence. So she really had to figure out how to engage them. Yeah. So I really feel. I really feel like I learned the heart of the horse through her and my own reflections of listening to the horses. You've been doing, you know, it's funny. Like the longer you talk, the more I hear your entire life has been around horses. Yeah.

And then you're like, I don't know how I would have survived without horses. Yes. Which is a pretty morbid thought, but on the flip side, it's a very like real like, you know. I really think I'd be on drugs and there'd be no saving me if I wouldn't have the horse. Really? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah.

And maybe that's not true, but that is what I believe, yeah. Just because, like, once again, I go back to that thought and you go, well, you can, you can feel that people aren't listening, don't care what you have to say. Like, kind of like, Marina's, okay, Marina. Like, that type of thing. And that was like, what am I even doing here? Type type thought. Yeah.

And then, but also being in a. metaphorical fish bowl of society and as a young person struggling with all that you just said and also seeing that we really don't care about our planet like I know that there's a lot of of a narrative to again control or behavior surrounding that topic but we in my perspective are animals and I believe we should love and honor our earth and we should consider our environment when we live. Because like I grew up on a farm. And I just, I don't understand. Yeah. Right?

Like they talk about, now traveling's been a lot of fun. Because like it opens your eyes to a lot of different things. Yeah, yeah. So you go like we aren't kind to our planet. I go, I don't understand. Like I kind of do. But I'm like where I come from like, you know, I grew up around, I had uncles with tons of horses, right?

And cattle and like, I don't know, I just have such loving memories of being around animals and not like beating them with a stick. Now it doesn't mean we never killed anything, butchered, et cetera. It's like, well, that's part of life too, you know? Yes, yes. And we talk about like we just aren't kind to her. I think of like kind to ourselves. I'm like, that makes sense.

Because I think of like, you know, like how little. we pay attention to the junk we put in her body and, you know, talking with not only Laura, but I think of Gabby Coza, I shout out to Gabby, who was, I think, the first interview on the road trip, if memory serves me correct. No, Chuck was. And then Gabby, sorry. And she's this young girl who, you know, has gone off into, like, explore. She talked about in the COVID days going into the forest and finding peace there.

And they're starting to learn about how, like, all these different things can heal us. Yes. And, like, to me, we have completely forgotten all that. Yeah, yeah. Or it's been strategic and not allowing us to talk about those things. Yeah. But when you talk about not being kind to the planet, what do you mean? Well, I think in my perspective, it's heavily tied to our conditioning to be consumers.

Okay. So we are careless in the things that we buy, whether they're, like, we have no attachment to if we throw them out tomorrow. I think that's careless to our planet and our environment. because I think we should be more responsible about our actions as an individual. I don't think we should be paralyzed by it. Sure. But as a teenager, as most teenagers are, like, I needed the brand name clothing, for example. And I got out of that when I realized that I was being farmed to be a consumer, you know, as a 20-year-old.

So I was, I never, I mean, I might buy brand new restaurants. riding pants. But now I like it would I would I really don't like to buy new clothing because I just think it's such a waste of my money and a waste of resources. Um, not to say anyways, that's just my, uh, that, but you're, okay. So it's like, I remember. No, you finish your thought. And then searching for stuff elsewhere that nature could give us. Like that lady's piece in the forest. We are lacking the connection of just spending that time and feeling the benefits of just being on a piece of grass under a tree. So many people are going through their lives without doing that, without feeling that, unless they're like on vacation at their cottage or whatever. They might have a glimpse of it.

But you could daily be a part of nature. And we've been spoiled because we've been camping right for the last, I don't know, we're on 62, 63 days now. Yeah. And camping across Canada, and I assume the United States would be the same thing, feels like I'm going back to like 1990. Yeah. Everybody is just noticeably happy, calm, slowed down.

Yeah, yeah. Sitting around, you know, like you talk about getting feet on the grass. I'm like every night. Well, minus when I'm in P-E-I when it's absolutely just storming outside, folks. Campfires, right? Yeah. Yeah. Slowing down.

Yes. It's been very, very enjoyable. Like, I have a theory that people that wear ball caps all the time are, like, less happy. Really? Yes, because you can't see the stars if you have the ball cap on. You can't see a lot of what is bigger and greater than you when you have a ball cap on. So I'd be interested in a study on that. I feel pretty happy right now.

Yeah. I wear a ball cap. It's a gray day. You know, you're not missing much today. Well, actually, and I like, people can't probably see it, but it's the Baltic Raider, and that's Patrick's fishing boat. And I wear ball caps all the time. So as soon as he gave me the hat, I'm like, oh, God, I got a, I'm sure like, obviously, I've been laughing about it because I'm like, I'm sure if you live in P.E.I. or the East Coast and you come out to the farm.

And if we were to give you a cattle hat, I'm sure in my brain, I'm like, I bet they'd think that's cool. Yeah. Because I think they'd probably laugh at me for thinking a fishing hat is cool. I'm like, this is so cool. Like I got a Baltic raider hat. I'm like, I don't even care. I'm going to wear this thing all the time.

Yes. So I'm pretty happy about this hat. But I've started flipping my, if I'm having a hat day, a bad hat, hair day or whatever, because I wore the hat all day again. and the stars are coming out, I'll just flip my hat around now. Oh, yeah, go backwards. Yeah, just no block to all the greatness above. Well, it's true.

I mean, like, moving from Ontario to PEI, like, you have a beautiful spot here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Once again, I'm spoiled because, you know, I sit here and it's the middle of a storm. But it's summertime, you know, so I'm not getting the harsh winter that Canada provides everywhere. Yeah. which I'm sure are interesting here. But you have a beautiful spot here.

Like this is, you know, to have a chunk of land that call your own. Yeah. You picked a good spot. Yes. Yes. Definitely. Great people surround us. You think everyday people should be around horses more?

I think that anybody could benefit from being around horse. Yes. Yeah. Just even experience sitting near one. And then with horse. Do you think they're certain, because you breed horses, correct? Yeah. You think there's like, or not think, I guess, do you breed just any sort or you've picked up like,

these are the ones I breed, and this is why I breed them. I breed, I've just switched my breeding program. I had a really lovely Andalusian stallion, which is a Spanish breed that comes from Spain, a bullfighting type horse. He was my first stallion. have him, but he has now stepped aside for a Canadian. So I breed the Canadian horse, which is our national horse, and it's actually critically endangered. It's got like less than 2,000 breeding aged horses available, I think, right now. Like I'm thinking of the RCMP. Yeah, they did

use to, they did used to have Canadians. Canadiens. Yeah, but I don't believe that they do now. I think they have crosses. Yeah, so they're special to Canada. They helped build Canada. They were very popular in Quebec. So I have a young stallion who's just bred his first mares this year. And so do you see different between the breeds? Yeah. Like, you know, like personality, temperaments, all the things.

Those things can vary within a breed even. But yes, like just like dogs, certain breeds have, you know, generally speaking, certain traits and things they excel at. You know, you go back to talking about being around. a wolf. You like being around Laura, being a wolf. Yet Laura's like first story she told about you was, and I chuckled because I'm like, the wolf needed help. You know, so you like being around a wolf and she couldn't figure out a horse or, you know, I'm paraphrasing. And then you come and it's like, you know, I'm sure a bunch of wolves together can get a lot of work done. I think of maybe the

freedom convoy. Yeah. You know, there was a bunch of wolves there. But in order, for everyday life to maybe flow the way it should. A yin and a yang is probably needed? Yeah, yeah. They're, yes. So do you have a favorite story you like telling about horses? Oh, my goodness. I mean, that's such a silly question to ask,

but, you know, like when you sit back and go, you know, over the course of time, you've had some, it sounds like, you know, I was thinking, oh, you didn't own horses until you're 20 or you didn't have this. But your life has been. like aimed at being a horse expert. Yeah. Yes.

Understanding them very well. Now you breed them and sell them, I assume. Well, oh, I mean, there's many, I think. It's definitely really hard to pick one. But I guess a recent one I was thinking about was I was training horses at a paint breeding farm and I was riding out with one horse on the trail. and we come across another horse that shouldn't be out in this field alone. And I didn't have any ropes or anything to go get this horse,

so I rode back with the horse I was riding, and I walked back out for this horse. And it was a really good, it was a really early on experience for me to demonstrate how horses being social, herd animals really need companionship, and we'll take it where they can get it. So I walk back to this horse that's in the field and he's injured, but he's unhandled and skittish and does not want me to get within, you know, 20 feet of him. But he doesn't want to be alone either. And, you know, because I can read his cues of when he's thinking of leaving me, I was able to get close enough that he's like, oh, you're interesting because you're actually not coming too close to me.

so I'm going to try to stay near you. So when he locked on to me like that, I was able to walk this horse home like two, three kilometers without any tack because he was just like, I don't know what's going on and I'm alone and that's the dangerous position. So we just walked back to his farm together and I just remember that being a really meaningful moment for me.

But maybe he's not a very interesting story. No, I think it is. I just, people have a way around animals. It's super cool. Right? Yeah. It kind of, you know, when you go back to being empathetic, I think is the word you used. Yeah.

I guess I, um, one thing, I had a sort of traumatic experience happened to me at the same paint breeding farm. I was training a horse that had been at a previous training center and I did not know how much they had tarnished him to be a bucking bronco. So he was a perfect angel with my little groundwork routine. And then when I, and I know signals that he was going to be up to no good. And I jumped on his back and very quickly, he sent me flying. He was, he was very damaged by his initial start. And the cowboys there were accustomed to laying horses down to, as a part of their starting process. So I was not wolf like at all yet. I was just, I couldn't say a thing for this

horse as they tied his leg up and ran him until he crashed to the ground. And then they made me sit on him, made me. I was just too weak at that moment in time. And I had never really, that, I guess, was a growth moment for me because I sat on that horse while it was tied to the ground to help train it. And that was really, really against what I felt was right, even in that moment. I knew I was doing the wrong thing, but I just could not tell these people no. So that stuck with me for a long time in a very heavy, guilty way. Like I felt for that horse for a long time. And it didn't help because that horse was so, he must have just been spurred. when he was ridden before based on the other things that they told me.

So that didn't do anything for that horse. And I had then always kind of wanted to redeem myself with the laying down of the horse. So I can teach a horse to lay down now without ropes, without coercion. I can capture the behavior through training. and it's kind of been my full circle redemption of that act. That was really pivotal in making me speak up, right? We have to go through experiences like that though. You've got to be kind of yourself.

It's like, you know, feeling that feeling and not doing it again is taking a bad experience and using it for good later on, right? So you beat yourself up all you want. But like, there's a lot of people that sink further into, I guess this is just the way it is. Yes. They don't listen to themselves. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, when you talk about being empathetic and like feeling about how people are, you know, talking, do you think in society we should we should talk more about that? Because there's obviously a group of people that are very, they just pick up on things. And I think I put myself in that class of. being like, you know, I read the Bible, believe in Jesus. Like this thing called discernment, right? You can just, huh, I'm not saying I'm amazing at it. It's the skill that I have and others don't seem to have. And they have skills that I don't seem to have.

Yeah. But we don't talk about it as much in our society. Other societies definitely do, you know. And that, if you're not encouraging, you know, when you talk about your mom being like, no, this is real. Yeah. At least that's how I picked up how you said it. If she hadn't had done that, you may have shut that off,

but that's a huge chunk of who you are. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's dangerous for people that want to be in control if we all learn how to listen to our own inner compass, whether that is from God or, you know, is that kind of what you're saying? Like, it's... I remember. thinking, I'll, I'll, maybe, um, think of the thought a little further.

I remember thinking spiritual warfare was, like, there's nothing that I can't, very almost, um, super pragmatic. That's a terrible way of putting it. But like, if there's a sound in the night, no matter what, there's a cause and reaction. And yeah, we're talking about a tree falling or whatever or the house shifting or whatever. And then, you know, as I went on, I, I ran into things, I'm like, I can't put that back in the box. There's no way to explain that through cause and effect from everything like we can feel in touch. Yeah. There is a spiritual side of the world.

Right. Right. Being an empathy side of the thing is feeling something and like I just get what you're talking about. People who don't get that or maybe they do. It's something you can't see visually. Right. Yes. And in society, we don't talk.

We don't promote those types of things. Yes. Very much. No. No. So like when they attacked in COVID, they did a whole bunch of things to paralyze, to instill so much freaking fear.

And a lot of it was you could feel it, but you couldn't figure out how they were doing it. Yeah. You know? Yes. And I think maybe as a society we do a poor job of promoting that. And being like, you know, like you're literally, clearly in your story.

Yeah. You're talking about like, I probably wouldn't be here. Yeah. It's a pretty dark thought, except for horses. And the connection you have with horses. It's like,

well, how many other people, I guess, is what I'm trying to wrap my brain around? Yeah. Are stuck in a place where they feel out of place. Yeah.

Because they can feel what other people are doing and it's just messing with them. Yep. And they just need horses or they need, you know, and we probably just need to talk about it more

as a society. Yeah. Like this is real. Yes. Yes, and it is life-saving, and it's how we've survived as a species before we, you know, became so organized. If you couldn't trust your instincts, you were going to be eaten by a bear or whatever, you know. We used to be more simple, and these things kept us alive. And that, to me, is part of the connection with nature, because it's our nature, and it's an animalistic part of our nature.

and I've just always felt that we were being torn away from that as much as possible on every side of society. Well, you can see it. You know, like you go into a giant city and some cities do it better than others where they got trees and walking paths and bike lanes and, you know, I know some of the bike lines today folks. But regardless, like I remember living in Finland and it was better to just be on a bike. Like their bike lanes were, their bike roads. I don't even know what to call them. They were phenomenal. Yeah.

And like the amount of greenery and, but that compared to being out on a farm is like two different things. It is. Yeah. You know, like you sit out here at night with no vehicles going by, no light pollution, all the things. The ocean crashing in. Then the stars come out. Yeah. It's quite a surreal experience where being in downtown, I don't know, I'm downtown.

downtown emminton probably back where i am or calgary is just a different environment completely that is foreign to a hundred years ago maybe yes maybe a thousand years ago i don't know downtown rome two thousand years ago probably was an interesting place too and that's maybe part of my development of my feelings too is like i grew up outside of the city but we would go to Toronto occasionally and I could feel the city, you know, as you get to a certain. That's been my entire experience on the road trip. Mel laughs at me because I'm going through downtown Toronto and I'm like, I just, just can't. I don't want to.

Like, you know, or Montreal. Yeah. Yeah, like it's just so many people. Yeah. And I'm not against so many people. It's just like the traffic, the smells, the noises. It's just so much better to be out here. This is a beautiful place.

Now, I wrote down, I can't remember what I wrote down. Okay. I was, I wanted to, I wrote down a couple things that I'm like, okay, this is some of the stories I heard. And I'm like, I want to know if these are true or if these are fabricated. You walked with James Topp pregnant? Yes. For 20 miles?

Yes. Seven months pregnant, I believe. Yeah. So I think that probably gives most of the listeners a pretty good feel of where he sat in COVID. Yeah. And I got lots of compliments about it and did not think it was a big deal other than the sores. But 20 miles pregnant. Did you, I don't know, I'm like most, 20 miles seems like a lot pregnant, but maybe I'm just like, it's not that big a deal.

Well, yeah, I guess it was because, yeah, that is the feedback I got. But I just, I'm an active person and I was still, I was cutting firewood the week before my baby was born that year. Yeah. COVID in P-E-I. I assume and I've heard stories from not only Laura but others, it wasn't a great place. I mean, you're literally surrounded by water and one bridge out. Yes. I mean in ferries, but they wanted to lock you in.

They could. Yeah. Did it bother you? You're on your spot. You got your horses. Obviously, there's things that probably bothered you. Yeah. But compared to other provinces or maybe, you know, you know, you're, you're not.

You probably heard the stories of Quebec or Ontario, BC. Would you think the experience of COVID here was like? I can't really compare to what it was in other areas, because I definitely just focused on being here. But I think it was, I got into the fear, for sure, at first. Not, again, not fear of COVID, but more I think I got carried away in the fear aspect of the other. of the other side and being afraid of what was coming down the pipes for us that were not falling for the propaganda. So I got kicked out of, like, I was an apprentice plumber,

and I got kicked out of my school block because I didn't have the shot. So I, and then they were, then there was the talk of the grocery stores not in allowing us in. Like, so it got to the point where I was like really genuinely concerned about what my future was. And now, Now I feel that looking back, I let myself play that part that was expected of me a little bit. Like, I'm really removed from the fear of all of that now. You know, I don't really know what's going on in the world because my life is freaking beautiful. And every day is a lovely day, unless it's not. And we deal with that.

So not a comfortable feeling, feeling like traffic. on the island and then, you know, just witnessing how it gave people a green light to say, ah, that person should die. You know, that, that I see as a really large and huge damage that the whole experience did was you would never publicly say that that person deserved to die before this whole COVID experience happened. We can't say a pedophile should die. Yes, but now we can say, If you didn't take this medicine or whatever into your own body, you should die. That, and that's still ongoing. So, that's pretty horrendous.

Something I've obviously, well, I think lots of us have thought lots about. But I try to remove the emotion out of it, right? Because once again, you go back to everything we're talking about with emotion. Yeah. Just try and, like, sit back and think up, like, man, I remember being in Ottawa at the Freedom Convoy. and a buddy of mine was getting Ottawa citizens to take their mask off. He's like, it's over. And I remember I'm just sitting there being like, it's over.

And they were so fearful to take their mask. Like you could see the fear of like, I can have a, say, see me at it. And you're like, look around you. I forget how T.M. put it, but the cavalry's come in. Yeah. This is over. Like, get this off. Yeah.

We're done with this. But the physical fear coming out of people. Oh, yeah, you can't, right? And you're like, are you looking around? Do you see what's going on right now? Yeah. And I have to remind myself, like, I was fortunate to live in the city I did to, you know, be near a farm, to have a group of people that thought like, we did and argued and pushed. That was a beautiful part of it is meeting all the wonderful people.

Well, I think about the road trip right now. Mm-hmm. I mean, Laura was, after COVID, it was episode. episode 423, I think. And, you know, like three and a half years ago, we foreshadowed me coming here with my family. Yeah. And like lots of the road trip has been running into people that I met because of COVID.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you can be like, this sucked. But so many positives came out of it. It's just that for a huge chunk of the world, I wish they would recognize the fear that the media and social media and government, everybody puts on them. Yeah.

It's just an unhealthy way to live. actually had some really beautiful experiences too being maskless in stores like I especially with some elderly couples like if they saw me without a mask you're like my husband's not wearing a mask either and then then we would talk and we would have like lovely conversations with strangers and then we would hug you know like far beyond the rules that we were you know the way we were supposed to behaving so I also it was a really neat experience in I really believe the way you act and put yourself out and the emotions you focus on or that energy you put out, it comes back to you. And because, you know, I was in that fear place a little bit,

but most of the time I was not stuck in that place, I then got a lot of good interactions. It is an uncomfortable feeling, though, to have every person in a store look at you. Yeah, definitely. I'm not a center of attention person. Like, even though, you know, like, I think about it these days, right? Like, so many people are upset with the direction of Canada's heading, but very few are willing to actually voice it. Yeah. In a meaningful way.

Yeah. And in COVID, you know, like the mass thing, you're like, I actually can't tell if like eight out of ten people are like, oh my God, I just want to do that so bad. Yeah. but I am terrified of what other people will think. Yeah. Like, you know, when you talk about, you go back to your horse barn story and being away from people and not having to worry about the judgment.

Yeah. It's like, in COVID, that was a very like, oh yeah, this sucks. Yeah. It sucks so much because I don't want to, you know. Yeah. It's funny because one of the things that I loved about a podcast, I think about this, I'm like I'm such a, I'm ridiculous. Because it feels like I can be who I want to be. Mm-hmm.

And then it goes out to. Thousands and thousands of people where they get to hear it. Yeah. But for some reason, because they're not sitting right there, it kind of doesn't bother me. That's good. Yeah, yeah. So in the middle of COVID, you could talk about all the things. Yeah.

And everybody was judging you. I was living in a lot of people's heads. Yes. They did not like me. Yeah. Yeah. But because I didn't see that or interact on a daily basis, it wasn't a big deal. But wearing, not wearing a mask and going into a store.

Right. It's a very visceral, like, this is happening. And everybody is glaring at you. Yeah. They won't say anything for the most part. I mean, we all had a couple times where people said things. Yes. And my last or my youngest son was born in November, 2024,

and he did have to go to the IWK for a week, which is a big Halifax Hospital. Okay. And then, you know, we've been back quite a few times through all these more, you know, mask moments where you walk in and it's now mandatory masks again. And, you know, one day I was having the biggest anxiety attack driving into the hospital because I had to look up the parking and then on the thing it was saying,

and masks are mandatory, and I thought we were beyond that, right? And so I'm having this huge anxiety attack trying to get over it before we get to the hospital where I'm not going to wear my mask. And we get in there and I'd say 40 to 50% of the people weren't wearing masks. And every time that I went back to that hospital and it was mandatory masks, it seemed like there was less and less people wearing them. So that was reassuring, hopefully. Hopefully, yes. You have, with having kids, have you, I actually don't know it, have you done it in a hospital?

Or are you? No, I had them at home. Yeah, I was going to say you seem like you're, so, so. So, so. Well, I don't know. You could be like, no, I had them in the hospital. Oh, okay. No.

Um, water burst then? No. Uh, I, I had them at home in my kitchen, one in the, the bathroom. So, like, just I don't even know what to say, oh, natural? Like, yeah, yeah, like I had, okay, so the first time was in 2022 and we did not, our government did not recognize midwives. So they're not covered by like, you know, our taxes. So I had a, thanks to the COVID, an amazing group of people, and one of the groups was midwives. So I had already known them, and we paid out a pocket for them to assist the birth,

which we mostly, it was a long one, we labored alone the whole time until the last half hour. I was like, we need your help to finish this task, and then my son was born. And then when my next son was born, midwives were recognized by the government. But I already had my connection with these people and I wasn't wanting to be with the government. So I went with them again. Yeah. Having an at-home birth where you're like, I think what you're telling me is until the last half an hour, you're just doing it yourself. Yeah, my husband and I, yeah.

I wanted, I did want a free birth if I could, but we had midwives close at hand and, I'm just, I'm just going to assume that that's like, I don't know if the confidence building is the right thing, but like, I assume you and your husband are pretty tight now. Yeah. It's like, yes, he worked just as hard as I did. I, maybe not. Okay, that's maybe a bit generous, but he worked very hard that entire 44 hours. Yeah. At home. Yeah, seven hours of transitional labor. You know, like on your, if you did, if you had seven kids on the seventh one,

you've been through it. You're like, all right, but the first one. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't tell people that I was doing this because I didn't need their fears. You didn't need their fears, judgments, everything. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a midwife. And I did.

And they did come, you know. At the end. Yeah. But for 44 hours. Yeah. That's an experience less than what? You know, like, when, when, when I talk about. about biking Canada, I go, I'm probably in 1% of the Canadian population or less, probably less

that has ever done that. When you talk about having a free birth, I'm like, I don't even, I assume I knew that was a thing, but I'm like, you've got to be in the point zero zero something zeros of all of Canada that's ever done that, which means, I don't know, like, I just assume there's a, you know, you said you weren't a wolf yet when you got put on the horse. It's like, I assume, you're a little bit of a badass now because you're like, I've had a kid at home, you know, like there's not much that's going to slow me down. I'm walking my talk, you know.

Well, and I just feel like, you know, when the hospital or a nurse or a doctor says, no, you've got to come in because it can be all these complications. You know, listen, Sonny, I had my kids at home and like on and on. And that's a don't mess with me type experience. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to spit on. I can't seem to find the word. Yes, and that has been my experience because my second son was born with differences.

Like, he had two lumps on him, and we didn't know, like, because I also, ultrasounds are not a guarantee of what they tell you. So I didn't have ultrasounds in my pregnancies. If we had a suspicion of an issue, I would have gone for one, but I did not. And it worked in my second son's favor because, he was 42 weeks plus like four days or something and I really believe that he needed every minute inside of me and if I had if we had identified his issues I would have really had to fight against an induction and I don't think he would have been born with the upper

hand that he was so when we went in so you know he was born and then seeing these lumps on him we were a little concerned about whether we should nurse them like I didn't didn't know what was going on. So the ambulance was at my house in 15 minutes, and we were at the Charlottetown Hospital in 45 minutes. It was all very fast, and they, yeah, my hospital experience was much more easy than I was expecting, especially with all the fear that I had about hospitals.

They must have assumed, well, they did think we were Amish. So they weren't putting a lot of pressure on us for anything. They were just glad that I would consider what tests they wanted or that I would let them take my blood for a blood test so that they didn't try to push some other hep B shot on them or something, you know? Yeah, so I, yeah. And, you know, that's been a step in my life to help me become more wolf-like is now I have, I've been given this child, I think,

to protect him from the surgical blade unless it becomes necessary in the future but he has not needed it yet and if I had allowed them to operate on him in his first week of life he'd be on a pharmaceutical conveyor belt right this moment and he is continuing to you know blow us away with

his abilities. Isn't the human body just like phenomenal? Like you talk about 42 weeks and yeah and he needed every last It's like the human body knows. Yes, it does. Yeah. Trust.

Trust the process, man. Like a lot of life, a lot of the gold is in that. And I was fearful before his birth. I had a feeling that something was not quite going to go as I wanted it to. And I just had to really come to terms with trusting the process. and life, I think, happens as it should, and we really don't have as much control as we think we do or we want to.

I'm saying, sorry folks, I keep bringing up Pat and Laura. Well, I'm going to bring up Pat. We love Pat and Laura. We've been staying at their house, and so I was riding around with Pat last night, and I was bringing up, you know, when I first started the podcast, one of the early things that happens

is I got hired by the Lloydminster Archives to go around and interview 49 community pillars. So from roughly 65 years old to as I think 98 or 99. And there are probably some of the best interviews I've ever done. And the reason why is you get to tap into their wisdom over and over and over again. And here, you know, like, fear is a funny thing. It's the unknown, right? You have no idea.

And what can combat the fear? People have been through it and go, no, I'll be all right. Yeah, I actually just do this and this and this, right? Like I watched younger parents struggle with, I don't know, being in the diaper stage and all the things and the lack of sleep. And now being a little further along, I go, oh, yeah, that two shall pass. And you'll carry on. And it's a wonderful stage and these things. But I'm sure there's people that are older than me, stare at me and the things I worry about these days.

And like, yeah, you got, there's bigger things coming, you know. Yeah. And interviewing all these my elders. I just got to hear and watch couples that have made it through the tests of life and you wonder if you know like even the attacks on boomers right now right I mean don't get me wrong

I'm upset too that we have voted in Carney and that they're you know but I get texts all the time from people that are boomers and I'm putting it in parentheses folks because I hate labeling a swath of people right there's like stories being there that need to be shared with the younger

generation so that you can work through some of the things because if you forget about all that stuff yeah then we are really doomed to create some real bad times for ourselves no like i'm sure there's lots of lovely people who've done free births they could walk you through like yeah actually this and this and this and this and by this time it was off and if you just you know you start doing this i mean having laura's a friend and yeah knowing the ins and notes of all the chemistry or microbiology, I should say, is a real unique friend to have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Archery.

Yes. The first picture I was shown of you, you're shooting things off the back of horses. Yes. I can say that I am P.E.I.'s highest scoring horseback archer, but not Canada. So you go through riding horses, wondering if it's ethical. Yes. Then you find out it's ethical. Yes.

And somewhere along the lines, you just like, I want to pick up a bow? Or have you been treating a bow since you came out of the womb, too? Well, the bow thing, definitely was always in my soul. I found one in the shed at some point somewhere, and I tried, and I just bruised the hell out of my arm. Because I didn't know what I was doing. That was a little discouraging for my young, sensitive self, so we put that away for a while. And then we met this person I shall not name on the island. that turned out to be quite a scumbag.

Wanted my sister to be a second wife. This was his angle, but he was being very sneaky and manipulated about it. He could have just asked, I really think you're interesting. Could you be my wife? We would have said, no. We'll be friends though, but no.

Instead, he was very slimy. And he introduced us to horseback archery, though. And just loved it because you feel just so, much. You just can't not feel like a badass shooting arrows, I think. And then also on the horse, like, another level. So are you legless? Not quite, but I will be someday. It's, it's, you know, in 15 years maybe. What is, what is the hardest, like shooting a bow is tough enough to begin with? Yeah. I'm not saying it, but you must look at people standing on their two feet and be like, Yeah.

Wusses. Well, yeah, and they look at us and think, what the hell are they doing? I know, but to be on the horse and hit a moving, or not hit a moving target, but a moving, like a... We're moving. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. There's motion.

Motion. Motion. A ton of motion. Yeah. Not only like the run. So you probably have to learn how to time your shot with a certain part and then like... You want to shoot at the peak. Like the canter has this moment of suspension. Yes.

And you want to be in that rhythm. And the best time to let your arrow loose is when you're up on that. that peak. So I love it so much because you give your horse this clear job. All they have to do is run down this track, which is actually, it takes a lot more skill than you may think because my track at home has fences because it's rudimentary, but the one we go to compete on has little mounds of dirt on both sides. So the horse can run out of the track if they really wanted to. And then the horse has to deal with horses galloping or cantering past them while they wait their turn. So it's a pretty good, it's a job that sets up that horse with a lot of life skills.

But you get to leave the horse alone, and then you are focused on your task of shooting your points. So I like the teamwork of it, but that we're not micromanaging the horse the whole time we're in this competition or whatever. They're just left to do their job. Well, then we're focused on this skill. And I've always just gravitated more towards activities with the horses that require finesse and skill, then speed. So with the school of archery that I like the best, we have a 20-second time limit on the track for the horse to run while we shoot arrows. And if they're longer than 20 seconds, the run doesn't count. but some horse you can be in the fast horse category.

You could be shooting like two arrows off an eight second run. Is this an Olympic sport? It's not, but I know that some people would love that to be. And we have break dancing, so you'd think like shooting an arrow off the back of the horse. Maybe I'll be on Team Canada someday. Horse's head. Yes. In a bucket, in a barrel.

Right. Walk me through this. Okay. Well, three years ago, two years ago, My first baby of my horse, Rio, passed away, suddenly unexpected, unfortunately. And on PEI, we can't bury our horses on the property. They get taken away by like deadstock. And I have always wanted a horse skull because they're very valuable to have as a teaching tool.

Like I can... When you say a teaching tool on a skull, What do you mean? Yeah. Like anatomy, bridal fit. It's just something that I've always wanted to have for reasons such as those. Okay. Yeah.

And my brain would go like I've seen horse skulls before and it's, it's, man, beautiful is not the right word. But I'm like, but like people hang them on the walls and like different things like that. They do art with it. Yeah. So my brain goes there. You're going, no, no. Well, I'm going both ways. I also have visions of painting.

Okay. Yeah, but I could still use it for my education as well. Yes. But I did want a piece of my horse. Yeah, I took some tail hair to make some jewelry, but I wanted to keep his head. I wanted to keep part of him. And I also think skulls are cool, you know?

If I found a coyote skull in the woods, I'd take that home, and I have. So I have a good friend. that nosy ins and outs of cleaning skulls. So I, yeah, cut his head off with a, like a butcher blade on a saws all. And I was alarmed by the amount of blood. Holy smokes. And it was, you know, I'm not heartless.

It was hard to, I am. I mean, the horse is dead, correct? Yes. Yes. I kill my own animals because it's going way back. Like, I was a vegetarian because I love animals so much, and I wouldn't want to harm them. That changed into me loving animals so much that I want to be the one to kill them to make sure that I know that they have only had that moment, and I know that. And I want to give them the life, and I want to take it from them.

Do you think your younger self, if they could fast forward and sit, you know, in the chair? Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, I just don't eat. I just don't eat meat. And then you're like, uh-huh, okay. You're in life going to drop a horse's head off. I don't believe you. I don't think I would have believed me.

No, not in the vegetarian stage. Yeah, no. Isn't it wild the stages you go through? Yes, yes, it is. Yeah, it is. Life is a wild ride. You were a vegetarian? Yeah.

So don't get hooked on labels, folks. Just let yourself live. Now you're killing, you're vegetarian. Now you're like, well, yeah, I killed the animal because I got to make sure it's done ethical. Yeah. So because I'd had that experience killing and butchering, I don't think I could have cut his head off without that, you know, that education. So the, you know, yeah, it was hard to do. But once it initiated, it was like anything else.

And it's just his head takes up a whole garbage fail. It's massive. Did you like, I don't know, did you have to sit and like pump yourself up to do that? I was, I remember having. the sozzal on his pole or behind it, the back of his neck, and just having to breathe, you know? And then, okay, all right, okay, starting, and then, okay, okay, now it's happening, and that's fine, but oh my God, the river of blood that I had to deal with after, because

my driveway was red. Yes, and then, you know, to lighten it a little bit, the deadstock guy when he came to pick him up, right? At that point, I had done what I could and I said to Mark, I can't watch him be pulled away now that he doesn't have his head. You got to go talk to the lie of the deadstock guy, please. But also tell me what his face says when he reveals that there's no head on this horse. And he showed momentary surprise, but didn't say a word. Yeah. I have one last thing written. Blunt force trauma. I heard you. tried killing things without.

See, I'm very judged in a certain household for this one. Really? From the farm standpoint, I remember, I don't think this is, I don't know. It's more, but like you think of all the things you're trying. It's very not, unconventional. I thought, yeah. Like, you're talking about being able to feel that other people can feel. Yeah.

Or how they're acting. It's like, yeah. Lots of people are like that, but to be able to verbalize it is in a unique category. You had your kids and wanted free births. I didn't even know that was a thing. Or maybe I just didn't realize the terminology for it. That is a very unique thing. Yeah.

You do horseback archery, which is a unique thing because I'm like, you know, although I'd probably watch that in the Olympics. I'm going to be honest, I feel like that would be a pretty cool thing to see on there. A better horse event. You know, you cut a horse's head off. You're putting yourself in a category of like... It isn't my goal to become this... No, but I mean, why?

I think when I'm hearing all these things, I'm running down, I'm like, I got to interview this lady. This lady sounds so cool. Maybe that says more about me than anybody else. Well, yeah, my friends also butcher pigs, and they always just use a ball peen hammer and a big, big smash right to where you shoot them. And it would, like, stun them, then you slit their throat.

Yeah. However, I have fat as heck coony cooing pigs with such fat necks. And it was my first time doing this. And I just didn't know the anatomy enough to get a good cut in. So it was not a good experience, me using the blunt force trauma to process my poor lightning. Yeah, it was a lot of apologies and do it better next time. Yeah. And just, you know, actually pocket that idea for.

if needed and stick with my gun. Yeah. Yeah. But I always am looking for survival in an edge. Like, what if I don't have bullets, you know? What if can I do it without it? Well, I can. You can, and you figured that out.

Once again, it's another, like, most people wouldn't be willing to try. And that was hard. I think that took me like 45 minutes to even, like I was just pet and lightning. Like he's the sweet, they're all the sweetest pigs. Like, I love having them around. And I was, he was just standing there forever beside me, having me scrapped. Yeah, I like bacon. That's right.

I like the vitamin D and the fat. It's so good. Yes. Yeah. Alberta independence. I know you don't, I know you don't, I know you don't, I know you don't care about, you're not paying attention to them. I am curious.

I've been asking everybody as I go across Canada. You got a province that is talking about, well, not talking about, they have a referendum October 19th. Okay. I know it doesn't enter your life, but as you stand back and you think, well, there's a group of people that want to leave Canada. Right. You have any thoughts on that? Well, my thoughts are, is I definitely used to be a person that thought all, you know, fairy tale like that what are borders? Do we really need any?

We're all humans on this planet. And I, funny that I would ever think that because I also believe in the power of boundaries and how in your personal life, we need boundaries for everybody to have their best life, really. So borders are a good thing. And I think it, you know, not knowing a lot of the details about what's going on,

you should find your community. community and having borders. I think, I think keep more harmony if we can live and let live in a sense. You know, like I don't believe that I have a right to tell other people how to live their lives unless they're a pedophile. Yeah,

there's a line. Then the train station should be back? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can't disagree with that. I think there's more and more people starting to under,

like what the heck is going on? And that's, I mean, such a bigger problem than anybody really has ever realized. I don't think. Anyways, yeah, the pedophile stuff is outrageous and disgusting and so interwoven into all of our powerful circles. Yeah, it's just sad. But I also look, you know, the more history you read, you go, it's been sitting there for a very long time. This isn't 2026's problem. This has been a problem for a very long time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you one. I got some substack questions I want to do with you quick. But, you know, going across Canada, you're a very interesting, you know, like I give you a ton of credit for trying things that are like, I don't know. I honestly don't know. Like I grew up on a farm and have, you know, seen lots of different things with the butchering of animals and stuff.

And I remember having a gopher in a garbage can. Yeah. and I couldn't kill it. I just, yeah, yeah. It's tough. So I let the go, you know, people laugh, so I let the go for go. Yeah. I was just like, man, you poor little thing.

There you go. And I think back in that, I'm like, oh, I'm such a softy. We're going across Canada on a road trip. I've been asking people, do you have a favorite road trip or a favorite memory from being, camping, traveling, that you're like, yeah. Well, yeah, probably my husband proposed to me on a dog sled ride in Algonquin Park. So I think that counts.

And that was pretty cool. Private dog fled through the Algonquin forest. And happened to be with a guy we knew too. So that was pretty special. Unique? Yeah. Yeah. You have stories that are very unique.

Thank you. And I appreciate you sitting here and doing this, right? Because I'm sure in Lari College, you're like, what the heck is going on? But I appreciate you. I'm stable. utilizing the microphone a little bit. No, no, I think you're doing awesome. No, I appreciate you doing this.

And for people listening, what we're going to do is we're going to flip over to Substack. We're going to have a few bonus questions. And we'll see what Marina's thoughts are on those. So thanks again for doing this. Thank you.