Shaun Newman Podcast - #1125 - The Captains Roundtable

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

In the west we’ve done many Blue Collar Roundtables. Today’s edition is a bit different — our first saltwater one — with four fishing boat captains from Prince Edward Island: Patrick Eastman, John MacPhee, Colin Lavie, and Gerard McCormack. We talk stories from the sea, changes in the industry, the pressure of being the captain, and the love of open water.Cornerstone Forum 26’https://shaunnewmanpodcast.substack.com/Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

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This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. How's everybody doing today? Oh my goodness. The sun is out. Might be briefly, but the sun is out.

We made it to Cape Britain. and today we hop on the ferry to head to Newfoundland. And if you haven't been paying attention to anything on the East Coast, where we were in PEI got somewhere between, I don't know, three to six inches depending on where you were. Parts of Nova Scotia and Cape Britain got eight inches. So, needless to say, it's pretty wet. And it had been a few days since we'd seen the sun,

and then it just came out as I started recording this. It's sitting on my back right now. And it is glorious. So happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Happy Hump Day. Okay, the first two companies, you already know what I'm going to say, but in case you're new to the show,

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Today's guests are four captains of the sea. I'm talking about Patrick Eastman, John McPhee, Colin Levine, and Gerard McCormick. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Neum of a podcast. Today I'm joined by Patrick Eastman, John McPhee, Colin Levine, Gerard McCormick. I didn't ask Patrick, what's Patrick's nickname?

Patrick, you got a nickname? None that I know of. None that I know of. John the Baptist, the Hawk, and geez you don't want to know. So gentlemen, thanks for doing this. This is, nobody can see me on the screens, which is perfectly fine. I appreciate you guys doing this. But before I just let you guys go free.

and talk about, you know, lots of different things. If you all wouldn't mind, just stating your name and then a little bit about yourself, but probably, you know, from this side of things, how many years you've been fishing, what year you started, and how about the biggest change since you started to today? Is that straight away? Yeah. John, we'll start with you. All right, John McPhee, the Baptist.

I guess I started fishing with 1979. I started on my own in 1983. And the biggest changes today would be the boats and the gear, the electronics. We literally started with nothing. I started with a CB radio and a compass. So the boats are well equipped today with radars, plotters, GPS, sounders, colored sounders, telephones. That was just a joke one.

time a telephone in a boat but I remember talking about that different times to be running telephone lines out here but it wasn't telephone line and I guess I'm fishing ever since so I got 43 years on my own I don't know what I'm going to make 46 45 I think 45 is that yeah Colin calling calling calling me start fishing very young as a helper aboard my five father's fishing dragger. I was probably 12 years old in my first trip out and the changes today are as John says is the boats electronics the gear the knowledge there's big changes in the fishery today it's expensive fishery today and

And yeah, I started on my own in 94. I bought my fishing fleet in 94. And in 94, they talked about the prices today to back then, but in 94 I paid 135,000 for my fleet. And the follow by-off, George Roach, he wanted 165 and he couldn't get it. So I had a hard job getting $135,000. 94 and so yeah there's big changes today like you're talking anywhere from one million or three million for a lot of fleet today but and I always say to the

kids getting into it if you want to be into it you got to pay the price I always wanted to get it into it earlier and I could never afford to get into it but when 94 and I paid 135 they thought I was foolish then I would make a go of it. So yeah, if the kids want to get into it today, you've got to pay the money. Gerard? Gerard. Jeremy Harmonic. I started in 62 or 63. I'm not sure what was when I went with George, right? But anyway, in 69, I got my own. And like John said, there wasn't too much, besides

That's an old laram clock on the dash of room to time yourself with foggy with that, for to go west there. And, you know, the price, I paid a big price back then, 3,500 I paid for, $3,500, I paid for a boat and all that. But that's what they go and the thing was, I got through the packer right the packers were back in you then right but there wasn't lobsters like there is today neither right I think was used to be in the rush to get to the south side here to whenever the same stuff was all in the go right but there's

there's equipment we had no equipment back then like I said alarm clocking RPM gauge, if you had an RPM gauge, made sure you set it the same thing there if you were blind, thick of fog and stuff. But other than that, there's a lot of difference. I remember Dad used to lobster fish. Back then the lobster wasn't too plentiful, so he kind of gave up the lops and that's when he started into the dry fishing. Yeah. But one time too, we get into a thick of fog. We knew where the gear was.

We knew where every number was, every trowel, where you put it. You could steam to it. Today you took the platters of the boats, every type to go shore. And I'm not joking. You're just looking at a screen. You throw a trawl off now and you'll ask what number it was. You don't have to remember.

You'll ask the crew what number was that, so I'd punch it in. But it was foggy. You'd just go. every trial, you know where they were on the water. And they don't have fog like that anymore like we used to have. I seen three and four days in a row, right? And you're going by that alarm clock and an RPM gauge, right? Gentlemen, are you saying that back in the day, the fog was so foggy,

you just knew where to go because you knew the water that well. And today, fishermen stare at their screens too long, and they don't know the numbers and they don't know the distance, and they'd run into the beach if they were in that type of fog? Yeah, like everything was, everything went with us anyway. It was either time, it was either time or a compass. Or adept water too. Yeah.

Water depth. Yeah. When I, I took one of the A. Scholar, myself, skipper did it. And I didn't know how to run the plotter, because you didn't have to. I was in the stern of the boat and what he would do was set a buoy for me in this end and a set of buoy for me and this end and used to toe back and forth and I didn't know the tides or anything and first time I took the boat out myself and I used to move the buoys out a mile of time he called me up for radio and give me a blast and moving the bullies and getting off the toe

and I didn't that's how you learn though you learn that's how you learn that's how I tell the kids today like you learn from your mistakes Patrick I should let you say something too. I went through the three old boys and you're sitting there as well. So let the audience know who you are, how many years you've been fishing and whether you think you'd run into the shore and fog. I probably would. Patrick Eastman. I started I started fishing back in the summers in the high school, two-und fishing with one of my uncles. That'd be probably 95-96 and I bought my own license. in a certain 2008. So 17 years. And probably the biggest change that I see, I guess my

short career, would be conservation and government interference, let's say. You can't do anything without filling out, you know, how much paperwork and printing out licenses that are an inch thick and dealing with this regulation, that regulation, being told when you can go fish and stuff like that now is, even in my short time, it's a huge difference. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when we start, we pay $40 for the year. If you finished lobster and you had five or six things you can go to, you didn't need all the paperwork and cut down four trees to send you papers for conditions and regulations and it just, I do agree with you. you on the yeah and the conservation area got much bigger too especially the lobster fishery yeah which which is all a good thing yeah absolutely and much

needed it uh yeah they put the fishery where it is today yeah in a lot of areas some areas are still pretty slow but yeah they'll come and see that's a thing too is where I can tell you and I've seen it too like even when lobster was over you always had something to fall back on you know you head your ground fish You head your cod fishery, you head your heron fishery, you head your heron fishery, you head your macro fishery and heron fishery. You know, even before Lopson, we started we started scalloping in April and finished in December.

You know, now it goes six weeks of the year. Yeah, six weeks in the summer in the north side and that's it. We used to even when I started it was tour up, I think you could go twice and you can't do that anymore. Even in my time I see me land a gear and go with scalloping. Some guy. And the Scotland, then lobster gear. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I used to go traveling with an old buddy of mine there. He's gone now, George Roach, there in the summertime, but we used to get codfish as the biggest the to tuna they're taking in today. Oh, God, yeah. Like there were 120 pounds, 130 pounds. The nasal there. Yeah. Yeah.

That stuff's all gone. We used to get literally half boat loads and boat loads. Yeah. But that's 40 years ago. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. The fishing was better 40 years ago?

The ground fishery, not the lobster. Ground fishery. The ground fishery. And that's your hake, your cod, your flounder, black bats, stuff like that. Back in the day when there was a ground fishery, if they had, if everybody thought there was going to be no end to it, right? The fishery just coming ashore. And if we had looked after, like we look after our officer fishing today, we probably still have a fishery. And Gerard can answer, talk a lot about the red fishery that was here.

You spend a lot of time on the offshore draggers. Before we get to a red fishery, to a dummy like me, why ground fishery when aren't lobsters on the ground? And why would they call that ground fishery and lobster something different? Well, lobster is a trap. Okay. Ground, ground fishery, you tall, you drag. You drag a net. You drag on the muddy bottom.

Lobsters were mostly on the hard bottom. Okay. ground fish were on the muddy softer bottom where you could drag nets without getting tore up all the time or putting big rocks down through. And back when you guys first started if you were dragging nets they were full? Back in the day. Sometimes they were. Sometimes they weren't. Yeah I seen we'd have to leave school. We'd just fishing it off Surrey here from the buoy to basin head and dad would make two chips.

a day and he'd come in we'd have to leave school and go down and gut fish for him take the guts of the fish for him so you get back out and finish today I see that making two trips yeah 200,000 in the day right yeah 200,000 the cod right that's all bottom trawl too great yeah it's on the draggers like with the house on the dragers right that would be the wooden 65 footers or the no them were the 92 footers That was the red fishery. The red fishery?

No. Codd fishery. The fall of the year and the spring of the year, that's when they go up by the spring of the year here, they can back down in the fall, right? Right. That's when we'll get them in again, right? We'd be head for the holes and shabes. We'd be red fishing in the gulf and we're coming down with the birdrock edge.

We'd put trout, follow all those 85 feet and all, looking for, sounder marks, right? Fish marks, right? And we know, we know first of October that time to get to Jesus at the Gulf because it was dirty weather, we would get one good day and then you get four bad ones, right? Yeah. When we see the marks there, we just shift the gear, put the big, big mesh gear on, right? Mm-hmm. Had for the Bird Rock Edge, right? And then they'd be all right up Shady camping all the way up along there, right three miles off the point. We was towed down to three miles off the point here. And then turn her around.

I remember one of the evening she was blown, it's only show of water, right? He's all show of water. And John went down, John Camel went down for supper and he said, back her around. I started backing her around, right? Side trawler. And she knocked herself out, right? There's a toad block you towed the thing in. And she knocked herself out.

But at the time I got the blades that I figured she cut the warps off, right? But you could see the bronze in the, in the, but that lent the main warp, right? She didn't cut her off. She knocked her out, but she would down, she didn't. She was down, she was into the blades, and she was copper off the blades was going into the, that's how close she was to cut the thing off.

You were close to get the blast, weren't you? It wasn't my fault, she knocked herself down. I was just backing her around. When did you start on the draggers? Pan Joanne was the first one I was on. That was in 64, 63, 63, 63. before. Okay.

And then I went from there, I went with Jerry on the Amy. We ended up. We used to be lucky to get in here. Everything used to freeze up around here that hard, right? We were saying we hope we get in for the Christmas trip, right? And a lot of the times we'd have to go to North Sydney, right? Because the ice was firmed up, you mean? Yeah.

Because it froze up here. So you'd go out at Christmas time? Before Christmas. Fishy around. Yeah. Yeah. You go down to... The boats used to ice up and you'd have to pound the ice off of the boats from the spray coming over.

You have to pound the ice coming off. The ice mallets. So you wouldn't capsize. Yeah. And each cable would go like that. Yes. Yeah. For mice.

Stay wires going up around there and you couldn't put your arms around the ice race and them only that round. Remember one time one of the Houston Draggers were coming around in the breakwater that he couldn't get in the harbor? Remember the crew walked the shore?

Walked shore, yeah. The breakwater, yeah. They had walked onto the breakwater to get offer. Crossed the ice. Across the ice. Okay. Couldn't get her in? Harbor.

Yeah. And the boats looked like an iceberg. Yeah. Yeah, there was two ones. The worst one I ever seen was the blue mist, right? She would come into Louisburg and we're in Louisburg, right? And that's what it looked like coming up the harbor. He came in the next morning after we came in the night before.

We had no clear view, right? There's an old English strailer we were on, right? And she had heated wires up and down the... up and down in between the glass, right? That's what... And once she taught so far, the ice kept making on the outside of her. Then we had to get up, ropes on us,

tied on us, and trying to beat the ice off the front of the things so we could see, the radar, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, it wasn't all sunshine. No, I don't mention. Anybody that did that winter fishery, I... The ice stuff too bad, they'd roll over, just top heavy, right?

Yeah, that's why they had to beat the ice off. Yeah. I was down Pell de Garag when the boys got lost that time. Which both was that? The Iceland. Yeah. I knew most of them, right? Yeah.

Or most of them around my age, right? Yeah. Tony was a year or two older and Tom was a year too older. Albert and I used to come around, right? Is that what happened to them, the ice stop? No. No. No. What was that?

in the storm. Loss of power, I guess. All you guys know somebody who went down in the water different times? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's kind of a cost of doing business or the danger of doing business, I should say. That's the danger of doing business, yeah. Doesn't happen very often anymore, but. Is it and that is that just the weather reports like compared to back in the day?

Well, weather reports and safety now. There's a lot of safety on the boats today, which is a good thing today. Weather forecasting now is so accurate. Yeah. But you still got a surprise. But the safety equipment they had today, it's better. It's to the good. When you talk about safety equipment, though, Hawk, though, like, is there, like, one thing you're like, oh, back in the day, we used to do X and now they would never do that?

Or the boat? Back in the day, you took it for granted, right? You know, now they have life rafts, survival suits, and it's, you know, it's mandatory now, and it's, you know. We'd leave. You wouldn't have a light jack in the boat sometimes. You know, you just took it for granted. He had a bottle of rum, though. Rome.

What? And that is a big change today. There was a lot of liquor around the harbors one time. Like I used to say one time, you saw somebody around the wharf, Saturday afternoon, sober, you'd say, what's wrong? with them. Sick men. Yeah. Now we see somebody drunk, you say what's wrong with them. And that's true. It's total opposite today. It turned into a business. For a good thing, yeah. But there was a lot of liquor around one time too, a lot. Yeah. A lot of fun and laughs had though. Well, yes, but the fun and laughs turned to misery too. Yeah. They will. Yeah.

Yeah, you pull up anywhere. Have a beer or a drink with any boat at all, or it'd be three or four of us tied together. You never see a boat tied with another boat now. Like it's... It's business. It's a business. Yeah. Nobody wants to say what they have in their boat or for catch, you know. Was that different back in the day?

Oh yes. Yeah, we're a little more open. We didn't care. Everybody was getting basically the same. There wasn't a lot of fish to share. We were... We've looked for a pound to trap. Pound the trap was a good day, so we 300 traps, 300 pounds was a good day.

But you starboard. to death on that today. You literally serve. You wouldn't pay your expenses for the day. You might. Well, it's the cost today, right? Yeah. I bought a boat in 86, a new boat. I borrowed $50,000. And the interest rate was 22% at that time, too. So, there's still a lot of money in the day, especially the interest rate. So. Sold it for more than you bought it for. Oh, yeah, I did. Yeah. How many years later? 30. Yeah. 33. Be on. it but I put a lot of money into the boat to keep it going too over 33 years yeah well it's like George's generation our generation like George sees our generation to

change right yeah yeah and then the generation after us we see the change you know it's just snowball effect and changes in the thing oh yeah oh yeah well we'd a lot of fun of what we done there one time too we a lot of fun yeah we did a lot of fun Don't keep me wrong. But there's no better way to make it a living. No. No better way to make it. You're your own boss.

Your own boss. No better lifestyle. He's up to you to put the bread in the table. No better lifestyle than being a fisherman? No. No. All you guys are originally from PEI, yes? Yes.

Did you go and try different things before you came a fisherman? Did you travel outside PEI, I guess, is what I'm asking? I went down Berda for a couple of winters there. Okay. My father had a business here. She was a storm in, but that wasn't for me. Last time I got fired, I stayed fired. And I went fishing.

I always figured I'd built for outdoors more than indoors. I didn't like indoor work. I liked outdoors. That's right. I liked the challenge, the weather. And we all saw weather. Every one of us saw lots of weather over our careers. And we had, it wasn't all bad weather, we had beautiful days too, nice days.

Yeah. Back in the day when bad weather came, did you fish it? Yeah. See, what you had to see, you had payments and you had family to feed, and the pressure was on. It's the pressure. And that's why you fished the bad days. You had to do it, you had to make a go of it when you only had two months to do it. Yeah. And a little false courage at times. Well, I bet. Yeah.

Should have we done it? Probably not, but... Well, I know this is a poor, very poor analogy, but like back as a kid, you went to school and, I don't know, minus 30 or something, right? But eventually it hit a, even back in the day, it hit a point where you're like, probably just shouldn't be going and they'd hold you home.

In fishing, was there a point back in the day or like, this is just a bit too much, and even you guys would stay in? Or you went out and pretty much everything? We pretty well did this. everybody took chances every fisherman takes a chance here or there everybody some take more than others

we all took our share of chances so then when you go back in and what's the worst storm you were ever in where you're like this was probably a bad idea and you got and you still caught your catch and got back in we're in a couple of them I yeah I was glad to see shore I'll tell you

yeah yeah I used to call him I was probably the chances I just call him, he'd be at East Point there and say, you got to get out of there. I know, one more trial. It's going to be, it wasn't good. It wouldn't be good down here in East Point is usually. It's a bad section of water.

Where your tides meet and your waves are big. Yeah. And there's no shelter from any weather. On the dragger and some bad things. Well, George would be a hundred mile an hour wind in the Gulf there. 100 mile an hour. Yeah, wow. On Georgia's, I got hurt in Georgia's, I got airlifted in from there on a helicopter too.

George's Bank? Yeah. Really? We were three days laying there, right? Storming, right? Yeah. And we're three days laying. And he decided that evening he was going to, Sam Jim, Sam Wright, was the Skepper's name, right?

He's one of the first fellas that had put doors and stuff over in the maritime's, right? Anyway, he decided he put the thing over, so she was a side trawler. And I took the messenger, stared down around, back, put her in the score and stuff, right? And he started, he run the net off, and he let the bridles out, and he let the ground warps out, everything out. And then stared around on her, right? and when he stared around on her, there was some sea in the water, I'll tell you that. Now I'd have been two feet further ahead, she'd have chopped me right into the door, when the door came in, come in and hit the side of the boat over the rail, right?

And I get up, she hit me, glanced and blow. If it had to be two feet farther ahead, she'd have chopped me right and do, right? And she filled with water back there because the hip rubber boots and stuff. She was being over the top of the pants and everything else and I only had one arm because I had a dislocated one of my shoulders and cracked three ribs and broke three ribs. And I got up, crawled up with one arm and got up in the boat deck and they said he's gone. They thought he was gone. The fellow's back of the winch.

The fellow's ruined the winch. And I could, I could, I could, I could, I could hardly roar for him to know I'm up here, I'm up on the boat deck right, where the thing was, lifeboat stuff was, it was up, you know, eight feet higher than the rest of the right, but the old Christaer, you wouldn't take me in, right? And the engineer the next morning, every time it was all right when we were told, Rick, but whenever we were hauling back, right, whenever she lay and they'd roll out and then the doors would roll back and hit the side of the boat, the chair, the side of the the ribs were the ribs were cracked and stuff.

Anyway, the next morning Alex was an Englishman there. He was the engineer in border. He used to make sure I had water and stuff like that for the, for the, because I was getting weak, right? And he went up to the wheelhouse and he told the old skipper, he said, don't bother ringing down to the engine room, she was engine room control, right? the gear apparatus was telegraphed down, right? Anyway, he said, you needn't bother bringing down anymore.

He said, well, you do something with that young fella down there, right? I was only 20 or 19 or 20 then, right? So I guess that's 60 years ago, right? But anyway, they got the helicopter out, took me off. me off. I couldn't get over how small the cable was in the line. Yeah. And they had one arm tied to my side. This arm was all strapped in, right, and this one was out. And there was only a little ring around the life raft, right, but that big around. They started for sure and the thing going like this, right? I didn't know which was the worst.

saying, what up with the thing or not. But anyway, they landed me in. And I'll never forget, there was a dark fella run the ambulance there where they landed, right? They had to take me across to Victoria General there, right? And he was going, and then the needle that she gave me in the plane, or in the hila helicopter, the needle that she gave me, and only started taking hold, I guess, whenever I was,

Because I got started to heating up, right? Anyway, I told them you better open a window, right? So I figured I was gonna pass out, right? But any other, everything came all right. We're back with them right after six weeks, I think they made me take off, right? Back then, in order to get compensation and stuff, You had to stay in that problem too, really.

Okay. I was coming down in a sub-side. Well, there's three of us coming down one time, scall fishing. And Dan Eeler, he had the big dragger there, and Brian McPhee and myself. And it was the worst trip, Dan Eeler said he ever put in coming down the south side.

And he had the big dragger, and when he grew down into a sea, you wouldn't see him. But then with the main engine came out, or the main hose come off my engine. Raw water hose? And you don't notice until the alarm goes off. And then it's blowing and it's raining. So the panic sets in. So you're firing pans around trying to get the engine heads off

or to find out where the water's coming from before too much gets in her. So we did figure out where the water is, but we had that much water in her. And the rakes and all the weight on her, the water's coming in the scuppers. So we tried to get the scuppers in her then. and then we're a short one scupper couldn't find it you know in the panic stuff couldn't so we had to call Brian to get us a scupper because there's water coming in because scuppers in her only inch of the hot holes but there were four of them so there's a lot of water coming in so Brian had to put the scupper in the

bag and he had a fire to be by a rope and when he'd go down to sea and he'd only be the length of this building from you wouldn't see it but he got me to scupper So we, it was not a very nice trip in. And Daniel had that big dragger. He said it was the worst trip to everybody in. And I only had 12 foot wide Kensington 42 footer. Yeah. So you're talking about a scared boy.

Yes, sir. Yeah. You guys mentioned you had to go because the pressure was on, feed your families, so you went and took chances because you pretty much had to. think that's still true today and I know Patrick you're out there you think the pressure is still on yeah yeah absolutely I think I think with the cost of things like yeah the cost of getting into the fishery now when you're talking millions of dollars you know you've got everybody everybody's equity behind it you know every young political get in he's got to put up a lot of

money to get into the fishery and a lot of people that's that are helped them along and and there's a lot of pressure there to make sure that you're you're catching the lobsters or catching whatever you're at to yeah to make sure you pay those bills and pay the bank loan and well especially when you get you know families the dollar you know whatever they own in this fleet yeah you know pressure's on you can buy a new boat one time for 50 60 70 thousand dollars or a good old boat for 20 or 30 yeah now you're running 800 to a million plus.

Yeah. There is pressure. Yeah. Big pressure. And not only your pressure, like, you've got your mother, your father, you've got your family, you know, you're worried about doing. And it's lobsters that pays the bills. So, you know, lobsters is two-month fishery. So anything you do afterwards, it was always lobster money to put dragon gear on or

scallop gear or whatever. mostly. Yeah. It's always lobster money. They made the payments too. Yeah. The rest was a little bonus.

A check coming in, steady bonus, or steady income. And sometimes it just made the payments and then you had to go do something else. That's it. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. That's the way it was when I started. You know? I started to you, you were done. you retired and I started that year. The lawson, right? So that was, yeah, 17 years.

But that was my first... 207? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you finished 07. Yeah. I started 08. Yeah. But that was my first number of years.

It was landing gear, go back out west. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Alberta took a lot of, helped a lot of... Yep. kept the outfits in their name. There's a lot of people went to Alberta

just to make payments on their their fishing enterprises there so they keep them and keep on going. What is the worst year you had? I'm going to follow it up with what's the best year, but what is the worst year? You know, like they talk about

in farming, droughts, or hail or, I don't know, fire, or, right? Like lots of different ways of crops going down in cattle, you got, you know, disease or not enough rain for grass and hay shortages, different things like that. In fishing, when you say lobster pays the bills, I assume a poor lobster year is a rough start. But if you go back through your time, what's the worst year you remember?

And Gerard, you being out in the deep sea, was there a time where you remember, you know, like something is off? Well, when the codfish went in the 90 there, 91, right? That was quite a blow to the plants and everything else that were running, right? Because there was no work. There was no amount of, and there was no reason why there wasn't, you know, because the stocks were being depleted by ourselves. We were doing it to ourselves, right, with small mesh gear. You know, and we're fishing that goddamn small mesh gear,

and we're putting the same amount of stuff in the fish hole. We were whenever we were taking twice as much aboard with small mesh gear, right? Forgive me, jents. Small mesh gear, what do you mean? Like really tiny? Not really tiny, no. three and three quarters and stuff like that. They were going down as low as that for a redfish, right?

And then they'd take and use their redfish gear for the, for the, uh, fish codfish, right? And Jesus, the little codfish, poor little codfish coming up that long, right? And weren't going out, right? You had the big mesh gear on and there's no two ways about the companies were in cahoots with the government too because when you're told to put the liner in the dory in the morn and before dinner the fisher officers are bored you know and they don't open the dorry what's that telling you see you have a

bigger amount here catch the bigger fish but you got to let the smaller ones out right they got to survive so what they do is put the liner in to catch the small ones too. And once you take them up from that dip, the sound and stuff is busted. They're destroyed anyway. They're destroyed in anyhow, right? You know, and that,

drugfish more of the offshore fleet, but the inshore fleet was doing it too. So, yeah, they're only hurting themselves. But you're talking to your good years and bad years there, well, there's not really one particular year. I know when I started in 83 there, the lobster fishery was good here. It was just good, like, but 12, 15,000 pounds back then of the season was a good season. You could survive on that and do well or make your payments. And it got big, like the late 80s, early 90s was, we were doubling that and doing better than that for a while and we didn't think we'd ever end.

It didn't crash. There was just no lobsters. there was very few that you were back to 10,000 pounds seasons, right? Anybody didn't have their ducks in order were in trouble. And then, well, it just took a while. The last 15 years was good down here too, so.

In Surrey here. But it looks good, it looks like it's going to stay, but next year could be different, I don't know. Only one hurricane away from destroying the doll. It's your worst. What's your best? Actually, when I started in 94, the lobsters were steady. Like I, for fish-wise, I don't think I had a bad year.

It was always the price. It was the price. It was, you know. I think it was in 2000. No, it wasn't in 2007. Was there a bad? For price? Yeah.

Nine. Nine. Because I started in 08. So I borrowed thinking on a far. $5 lobster and I think in 08 when I started we got the 350 375 that spring yeah and then the next year that's when all that quota stuff started yeah we went to 250 to 1⁄4 yeah that was and we came from seven dollar lobsters down to two and a quarter yeah yeah so it was uh yeah it's a hard so it was a long time to get back to a seven dollar officer yeah but the expenses

yeah i did didn't go down at that time I said we'll never fish for under five dollars again yeah but we did yeah and for it wasn't just one year either. 225, 275, 3 and a quarter, 375. We eventually made it back up. Yeah. Yeah, so. A $6 lobster, $7 lobster is no good today either.

No. What is a lobster worth today? It varies. Yeah, varies by season. In different parts of the seasons, it depends. Yeah. But we were probably averageed $8.50 last year. And then who sets the price?

There's no such thing. Nobody sets the price. That's illegal. But we all end up having the same price. The exact same price. It's... They do that at the... They have a big pow-wow there down at the Boston Seafood Show every year. So the price comes out of the... after the Boston Seafood Show. Yeah. What the heck is the Boston Seafood?

Well, this is what... The North American Seafood... Expo, I guess. ...expo or something, but it's... We always cost the Boston Seafood Show and it's held annually in the... March right around it's close around St. Paddy's Day. That's where all the sales are made for the spring or for the year for the buyers they make their connections and they have their overseas buyers it's uh that's always been the way always been the way yeah they all get together but they all

four of the same price but price six and is illegal so yeah there's four by there's four buyers here first for nice there right there would be four buyers and and they go to mountain First April, right? First April, the four buyers that go to Mountain have a big conflap over there, right? You're paying five cents more this year, you're going to be second in line, right? So this year, just goes in the bit, they just take turns, right? One will pay five or ten cents more than the other, right? And the risk of getting myself in trouble, you're saying there's a show in Boston where they're not allowed to set prices, but when the show,

was done they come out with the price who is they like are we talking the mob or the government like a bunch of just like big restaurants go this is what we're willing to pay mostly the processors yeah yeah the processing industry so it's the big the big plants that that buy a bob lobster from the at each and how and how many would that be pat how many how many of those are there what question oh god well there's They're getting to be fewer and fewer all the time. Because they're... Because they're being bossed in three and four plants are... Being bought up by one group.

Smaller guys getting up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So soon it'll be like three people meet and they go, we're going to set the price it whatever, which is illegal. I know. Everybody's staring at me laughing at me.

But then I go, so why don't they say if there's... Oh, because they get it for cheap and then they sell it. And the Chinese are getting in there pretty hard now too. Yeah. But the processors. get it for cheap and then they turn around and sell it to restaurants and everything right yeah yep yes yeah you guys aren't allowed to sell direct to customer yes we are oh we are yeah oh yeah yeah but in the volume that we're catching and and it's just not feasible for everybody some guys have done it yeah

be set up you'd have to be set up through you it's uh it's pretty expensive yeah or deal to get into yeah yeah we just want to go fishing and sell our fish well that's it and it's time it's time Yeah, like you can't put 12 hours on the water and then want to go do that every day. No, we put another 10 in there. Yeah. Great. And you'd have to buy too. You have to set up and buy.

Is there an equivalent in a different industry that sets a price like that? Where the processor, like, buys the thing that they're turning around to sell and they get to set the price? Is there anything similar to that? Not that I know of. Blueberries. Yeah. They were supposed to this year, they were supposed to tell us in the spring, early in the spring, what the price was going to be this fall. Still no word on the thing, right? Well, this has been going on for years.

Years. It don't sound good neither for this year, right? And you're almost through the, through the harvest. Yeah, yeah. They'll have a marketing board for dairy too, all right, but there's price such. there but it's agreed by industry also yeah but there's only two or three buyers for the blueberries yeah yeah yeah and they got the thing sewed up yeah it's not not uncommon Sean for us to fish for the first two weeks of the season and not know what we're getting paid for our lobsters yeah that's every year yeah yeah and always has been yeah yeah you don't know until the first check The odd time a buyer will break rank.

You let the cattle out of the field? Yeah. Before you see a price? Would you let the cattle out of the field before you see a price? Do you? Let yours out? No. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, I just, like, I think about it, right? Like, they actually, you know, different farmers have different ways, but they time out when they're buying it for, you know, for buying the lowest, selling it the highest, all the different things. things, right? And watching the price. I did not know that. I feel like if anything's going to get a black bag put up my head, it's talking about price fixing and lobster. We had meetings on that and big meetings and we were talking taking it to court or something, but it was $20 million or something just to touch us, right? So, yeah. We were short to $20 million. 20 million. Why? 20 million.

Lawyer fees, courts, fees. By the time everybody drug it out, drag it on. We'd have to match the buyers 20 million. They'd have it probably. Between them all. In theory, if a guy wanted to open a processing plant for lobster, you might end six feet underground, but in fairness, you could also be a disruptor

in the conglomerate that is sitting there is what you're saying. Well, you couldn't anyway. You'd have to buy an existing license, processing license from one of them buyers that had. So they also have the processing license? Isn't this the whole reason we have like laws against monopolies? I don't know why everyone's laughing at me, but I'm like I feel like I'm walking into a bees nest or something right now. A little bit of Russia and Canada too. It's, yeah.

It'd be nothing to have 15, 20% of your catch. for the year ashore in a couple weeks sometimes. And not know what you're getting for. And not knowing what you're getting. So, okay, then on a different note, you guys talked about the bad years and like when the prices went way down and if you didn't have your ducks in a row. So if you were talking to younger fishermen or somebody just in business maybe in general,

when you talk about having your ducks in a row, what can you do or what have you boys done to ensure that the bad years don't wipe You know, just have your finances in order before if you can. You know, you just don't, you just don't spend everything you have. Yeah, you got to set yourself up. Like, it's a business. You're running a business. Like, you know, you've got to put so much aside for the business, too.

You just can't take, take, take. I remember when, I remember, George, you probably did, when I fished with Dad, like there was probably 13% went to the crew, 13% went to the crew, 13,000. to the skipper and then the boat had to get 13%, you know, percent. He always made sure that the boat got in. Well, the boat used to get 50%, 50%, was it? Yeah. Or 51 or whatever.

But it always went back into the boat. And the banks were lenient through bad years. Like, long as you paid your interest, they didn't go after you. They were still making money. Everybody was making money. They just wanted your interest paid, and your principal could be left for... They're just getting more interest than the long time. Yeah, they're just getting more interest, yeah.

Yeah. It's a business. It's, you know. Back in the day we didn't treat it as a business as they do today. Like you're talking bigger numbers today. You're talking, you know, but it's a business today. Well, and a lot of the enterprises here now are companies too. We never heard of a company back in the day.

It wasn't required. No. Because it, you know, when I guess. The registered companies. Yeah, the registered companies now. You'll be licensed in a new company. for tax purposes yeah yeah you know it's a big business today yeah expensive business too yeah but every business is today you know it's expensive for yeah

it doesn't matter what you do today yeah what do your uh what would your fuel bill be like now prepared oh my god why huh like you want to talk expenses yeah like my fuel bill this year was atrocious doubled from a few years ago yeah oh Oh, trickle. Well, fuel wasn't even in the equation one time. No, you didn't think about it. We're getting fuel for 22, 25 cents a liter. Yeah.

So it wasn't even in the equation really for expenses. Yeah. It is today. Oh, yeah. That's diesel, yeah. 25 cents. What's the price of diesel today? Well, it's 250 or something down with the service station there.

We get a little cheaper, we don't pay the road tax, so we're probably two and a quarter anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's running six and seven, eight hundred horse per engine. 900, thousands. And what did you run? I was, well, just putting a 700 in now.

But what, sorry, when you started, how many horses? Oh, 125 horsepower. 125 horsepower. Forward Senator. Yeah. And you went out and more stuff than they go out today. Oh, no. No, well, same stuff.

Same stuff. Pat, would you agree with that? Yeah. Same stuff, but probably a little more comfortable than what you have today. Oh, boy. Yeah, that's the thing, right? Yeah.

Yeah, a lot more comfortable. Yeah, we took some beatings over the years. Didn't realize you'd come home. You'd be all beat up, wonder why. Just weather. And bait, like bait now is... We can't catch it ourselves anymore. We used to catch all our own bait one time too, right?

You used to catch all your own bait? Yes, pretty well. So you used to drag for that as well? No, we'd have net set. Nets set? For heron, yes, bro. Mostly heron. Yeah. And the response was dragging.

part too, right? Yeah, yeah. And you could hook, you can hook and you hook and line mackerel or, you know, just when I started I could put away all my mackerel for the next year, all my days. But we, yeah, we'd be, our necks were set in the spring, like during a obstin, you tell your nets after, or you're obviously here, and you have an update for the next day, most times. Sometimes you run short, sometimes you live too much, so you can sell the extra or? You guys did well in the nets here and this outside.

Yeah, our lobsters kind of went really bad here for a few years, but we fished her in a lot in the spring of the year and it took us through. Yeah. It's a play to check every week. And pretty good one. Going back to bait for a second. So you used to catch all your bait, Pat, you can't do that anymore? No, they shut the commercial macro fishery down here, what, four or five years ago? Yeah. now so it was completely closed for a couple years and now they reopened it small small quota and uh it's it goes pretty quick like i think the second opening the fishery we just had here lasted

three days yeah and the spring hair that was shut down also yeah so i think you can's had a net now for gasperl or something but yeah net or three nets or string i don't know what it is anymore And it was a lot more around then to catch too Like going back to small mesh gear and stuff A lot of You said her in that's air and a lot of fish got cleaned up And it's harder to catch We start in April

Try and get some bait Or the end April Then the heron kind of stopped We went to the first of May It seemed to jump every two Every few years Then it was the middle of May Before you had any her and show up

Then it was the end of May And now we get into the end of June Or the middle of June Before you'd see any hair it all so we've just it's just a species you can't catch twice either yeah we catch it once and we had a problem here with here and here a few years back to a we sainers in here that that really flattened what was left they caught it all like this is the offshore sainers the big boats getting four and five hundred thousand pounds a night so

million million pounds yeah yeah a couple that was each boat and then there There was a couple of the boats fired there. So we had quite a, we had a demonstration here in quite a show. We had RCP officers here and riot cops and dogs with teeth in both ends. We had the whole, whole shooting match here on the wharf. We were protesting. Of course, we lost it. You guys were protesting that big boats were from where?

New Brunswick. New Brunswick. They came in here to unload. But I was all excited here at one time. I said, you know, the herring fishery's back. There's another generation heron here for the own fellas of fish, you know, like the way we did. But they pretty well wiped their out. It's coming back a little bit, but nothing near it used to be.

Not even close. It'd take years and years and years and years. All that heron used to be down on our side all the way, like down to the track of the COVID. Remember you were down there fished heron in the summer? Like that's all, there's nothing left down there now. There's a heron bank down here we call it Fishman's Bank. I fish there. There were a geowerd fish there, column fish there, but there was over 200 boats down there every night there back in the, I guess, the 90s.

Yeah. And this year is a big year, I think there's 50 boats geared up. But there's going to be a lot of people where they were here and I think it's going to be a lot of messes. There's just, it's going to be one little area of the fisher end and everybody's going to try and get a piece of pie. So, but we were down there with, well, 200, 225 boats. Everybody got fish. Yeah. But we were catching spawners too, but we didn't.

fish on weekends you know there was we had a bag lemon on it too 15,000 a night and you had to go home but we did a little destruction ourselves alright but not like the sainers they caught it all they wipe out everything every

every size there was no home there's nothing selective about a sainer yeah you're running the gill nest you know you're getting a certain size fish you start running sainers you're clean they wipe an entire school of fish yeah and they used to say in the daytime I had no sainer captain tell me the same story. At night time he said if you take a dip and your hair and

are small and you want to release them they'll probably all live. In the daytime they beat the scales off each other and they just go to the bottom and die so they ruined a lot too. Yeah I must be dense so I'm going to ask it a different so it was giant boats came in from New Brunswick and had some sort of what did we call on these guys Sainer? Sainer. Yeah. Sainers, yeah.

And Sainers of the company? No, no. Sainers, the gear type. The gear type. Yeah. Yeah. And they dragged and they were getting 100,000, no, a million, a million pounds of fish. A million pounds.

There's two of them here, the J.P. Nickerson, the R.D. Evans. And then there was one came from the West Coast, the Canadian Club, the name of her. Oh, that was in the 70s, the first time we came here. Yeah. When they came here. But that's what them there. boats that hold a million pounds. A million pounds. Yeah. Why didn't that happen every year? Why did it happen that time? Like was this something they allowed that time around or were

they just being brazen, a little bit bold and coming here? They built a hound plant down here. That was in the 70s. That was in the 70s, but this was so it's happened a few times. Yeah, in the 90s. But it was never science. It was always political science and we don't have political clout here in PEI. We get foreign members here and they don't get one rat's ass about PEI. Nobody ever did in the fishery. We got crumbs when the other problems that's got crab licenses.

Crab licenses in quotas. And then we had the tuna quota here one time the Gulf tuna quota. They just shipped away and took it away. They just, PTI is an easy target. Yeah. PTEI is over 50% of the tunnel licenses can and I guess less than 30% of quota.

Yeah. You look at different fisheries and like DFO always preach this adjacency and all this stuff but everything's right here in our doorstep and we don't get near the share of a snow crab quarter that Quebec or New Brunswick. The crab fishery they have in the Gulf here now started in Surrey P.I. Yeah that's right. And it just went, it wasn't feasible even to catch them at that time. So New Brunswick did start up again but their government

that was really generous to the boats and kept it going until they got a fishery established. But then when they were divvy and quotas, we got, they were back as far as I think it was 72 that time. That was the last time PEI fish was 72, so the game was nothing. What's the biggest threat to the P.E.I. Fisherman? Politicians. Careful, you're starting to sound like an Alberta. It always was. Yeah.

It's gone. It's government, regulations. The fishery was mismanaged for years and years. That's why we have shutdowns. That's why there's no heron. That's why we have a macro shutdown. Back in that heron protest, by the way, I do know this. You know, it wasn't a whole lot out.

There were supposed to be a line out in the Gulf there where the sailors couldn't come in. But all of a sudden there was a fire in Halifax office one time and now all that information was burnt. But it did show up. Anyway, they did put the line back in, but when they put the line back in, they also made deal with the sainders for mackerel. Because there was all kinds of mackerel around.

So they just kind of shifted operations from heron to mackerel, and now we have none of either. So we're all shut down. They did the same with every fishery. It was just political pressure, political science, not science. And it'll never change. You know, they put a line back in that was never taken out. Yeah. And it was the same with the redfish.

Right? The same as the same as the... I can see Gerard sitting there thinking... Yeah. It was the same as the redfish. Same thing happened here. When the redfish went, the plant went, they took the quota with us, with them. Well, not only that.

And the fish was caught here in Georgetown. George said had a big plant too. Fish were caught in the Gulf. The red fish were caught in the Gulf. Yeah. And hailed in the Sydney Boat and down off. Hansel Creek. Right.

Because we seen them in there. We had a little old bottom trawled there where every two hours we'd haul back, we'd have 8,000, right? He'd hauled back alongside you there and he'd have 80,000. Thing from here to the road out there, they caught in behind the thing, right? Not a beep on the radio, wouldn't talk to nobody, no. He'd only stay in there for the one or two rips, direct, that's all he needed me. He'd go back and he staggered the rest of the trip out. Back in, but that's where they were coming. There were a live one trip in the Gulf at that time.

One trip a month, right? And they were coming in, they'd, two or three told that 160,000 or 200,000, and then they'd go back out. But they wouldn't talk to nobody on the radio or anything else, right? So then that quota got recorded as landed in Nova Scotia? landed on Sydney Boyk or cancer work. It must have been the end of the month and then they started again at the first one. Yeah. Months were fairly gone damn thick, I'll tell you that.

Months for days. They were getting the stuff that was up in the water. Redfish are a sunny day fish. The sunnier it is. The sunnier it is better than the fish. Overcast day, it's this poor weather for red fishing. Okay. And it'll go to the bottom, right?

I'm told that out on the water fishermen don't need police officers. Is that true? You can't police each other? You mean the boats among themselves? Yeah. I think they can control their own destiny, right? Yeah, we're pretty good at that. We're pretty little good and looking after around, yeah.

It's always somebody will cross the line or try to, but it's looked after. Yeah, you're all right. Yeah, we don't have to be calling the law for every little thing. There's an etiquette. Yes. And it's followed, and if it's not followed, it's... That's right. You buy an outfit, a lobster outfit, you fish it in the same area, you bought it.

Pretty well. Like I bought mine 45 years ago, and I fish it the same area. at the same area pretty well is the place I bought us and he's just a non-written law we just do just just that's way's done yeah it's pretty well self-police yeah if you move where the boundaries you're gonna get you're gonna find yourself with scenario in trouble I'm somebody like say you're probably you're probably gonna lose some gear that's place done in the East End here yeah yeah it's different everywhere it's different some some law areas there's free for all wherever you want they can go

what they want yeah you mentioned that heron-tainers back in the 70s in a plant here how big was that heron please pretty well the same as what we had it was six or seven boasts were seven seven yeah that's where all them potato wares at the north there now yeah was it yeah okay it was all hair yeah and they fished right in the bay oh yeah right in right in the back in the breakwater down there yeah yeah yeah right in the hospital yeah We're parasane, right? They wiped the roof that time. And Jesus Christ, you'd have to stagger your way out through them there.

Hull them back there right at the end of the thing there pumping them over right. They're in, below the hospital, pray in the breakwater, just off the heart bottom there. Yep, yeah. That was back. So there's a lot of changes over the years, even since I started. Yep. And there was no diesel engines when George started. He was sails, so... I had a spanker, I had a spanker one time. Yeah, for doing it. Only had no sail had.

What was the saying, George? He used to say, wooden boats and steel men. And then it went to uh, uh, steel boats and wooden men. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir. She's a change. Where do you see the future of the fisheries going with especially the climate right now? You've got different tariff talk and price wars and I guess price fixing, setting price. You're getting that fixing into it again. Yeah, controversial words. Price setting.

What do you call it? Fixing. all spade is paid it's cat and leather yeah I don't know I think it's fairly

stable ground all right yeah it depends what you call the fishery it's a lobster fishery mostly now pretty well

just a lobster fishery which has changed dramatically from a lot of species over over my time the lobsters

are definitely more playful yeah how big word a lot what was the gauge size we used turning I got pants a bunch of gauges out there but that big from when we started

coming up, whole up very. Well I started usually two and a half inches. So I don't know what it is, that would that be in millimeters, but it was a small lobster. Yeah, definitely, yeah. Yeah, it would be like 63 or something. Yeah, forget what it was, yeah. They've shifted the age a lot of times. A lot of conservation work done.

Oh yeah. you know them there, skate patches and stuff. And they're gonna ruin it. The goddamn middle round, white plastic things. Yeah. I don't know what we thought we were doing there when we put them in because that didn't, you know, if it had been twice as big,

it might have done something further back, right? In one time there was no trap limit either, like it was before my time. Did you fish on that, right? Like some of them fish? No, that were. Well, I fish with radar for four years over there. Some fellows fished 1,500 traps, 1,500 traps.

Would they fish 15? 1,500, yeah. Yeah. Then they put a 400 trap, 400 traps living in. No, 400. 400. Went to 400. Then we were down to 300, and now, well, in the straight here, we fish 272.

So it was a lot of conservation, we didn't, too. And went to 300, I was when the license freeze came in, was it? Is that same time? Around the same time. Around the same time. Yeah, early 70s. Well, here's buyback in the 70s there. I think that's been a 300-craft limit to mean, right?

As far as the future of the fisheries goes, fisheries have been around a long time, and of course, the water is getting warmer, there's a lot of things going to take effect, but we can figure out a lobster, there'd be no lobster. Exactly. We never figure them out. So it's hard to predict what the futures are going to be like. You know, are the lobsters moving north from the states? Is that why we're seeing the more plentiful up here?

Is the state's lobster down? South West Nova lobster are down? Are they moving north? How long will it take from the get by us and keep going north? We're catching a lot of fish in deep water now, and that was kind of my thoughts. Yeah. Is it fish that's moving from Maine at South West Nova

that are passing by us in the deep water? Like going north? I don't know. And we can figure that in. Or is it food? I don't know. But there's something going on when they're, they're catching lobsters where they never, never dreamed a fishing lobster before.

The West Coast Newfoundland there, they're having seasons like they, wouldn't believe, right? And there was no lobsters, absolutely no lobsters there. Yeah, that's right? 20 years ago, right? Yeah. They were starting up around Stephenville,

there's some few folks there because I used to go down there and move something right. So I think it's hard to predict. To be a fishery here for a few years, I do go out. Yeah, there's areas south was here that's dropping, like southwest no way. Yeah. They claim the U.S., but their numbers are always fairly high. They're fishing around, though.

Yeah, and they fish year round. Yeah. So was that fish coming north because of the warm water? Yeah. I don't know, I think it'll be good in my time. I had a lot of time left. I hope you're right. Yeah. But it's the thing that I think it's hard to predict. Yeah.

Well, we saw about Hurricane Fiona, just that one hurricane, what that did down on the north side and in the middle of the island. That's right. The damage it did that next spring. It never came back yet. It's, yeah. Yeah. It was next spring the lobsters that were, you know, missing claws and legs and arms and half cracked open and... Even out here...

...was down, what, 40, 50% in places probably. Even out here, yes. Like our outside edge here is 90 feet. And what I'm saying that, that's where the herd bottom ends and it's mud out there. But our outside edge is rock. It's still muddy. My traps come up. Still mud on the sills from after field.

Really? Yeah. Still muddy to this day. So it's covered, it shows hard bottom, but it's covered over with mud too. When you first started fishing, what's one thing you didn't think you'd understand about the ocean that you understand now? Uh, water temperature plays a lot with it. Water temperature. We never, back in that, we never took any passing water temperature, like, no. Do they do today.

Yeah, the fish were down. You know, the water temperature. The wind or was the, now, the, now, the, you know, do it do today. Now it's all water temperature. You hear water temperature. That's funny because now I'm on talk technology. I have a water temperature sensor that I started using this year and it's Bluetooth and so every time I pick up that trawl every day press the button on the sensor it sends it to my phone shows me a graph what the water temperature did in last 24 hours since I looked at that trawl. Yeah. Yeah.

You check it every day things and it's just it's amazing to see how much how much it changes in 24 hours. Like, because you used to look at the thermometer and it was 42 yesterday and oh well, it's down to back down to 39 today or something, yeah, took a drop. But a lot of days it probably went up to and down five and it's fascinating how much it changes. I just saw that this year.

But when I bought my oafut, the old fuller, I bought it from, as he told me, he said, you better respect for the ocean, he said, because there's none for you. Yeah, respect the ocean. the ocean. It's one thing I never forgot either, and it is true, but we ignore that respect sometimes at times too. And another thing is like, back in our time, like, we never fished off our bottom. You know, we always fished our bottom. Yeah. Yeah, they're fishing in the place. It's like, out in the mud. You've never even thought of going. The farther out to go, the better.

Like, we always stayed in shore and on rock. We tried us. Yeah. We just. dry it there was just nothing there nothing there the biomass has grown that much that it's expanded territory and it yeah so that's a big difference oh yeah jeevers yeah fish aren't company shore whatever they didn't this year whatever it's cold weather it was cold either yeah it didn't this year they didn't move in yes I say water temperature yeah yeah we never thought we put her gear in there waiting for them yeah yeah trunks today it's just Yeah.

Back to what you were saying earlier there, like you said, like you used to be able to, you guys used to fish a string of gear. You know, if you got there with a watch and a compass or whatever. Now it's six traps over there and a trawl over here and a trawl over there. That's the way we always did that in Surrey. Yeah, all over the place. We were never too much strings. We didn't have the bottom to do it.

No. Like we were all strips more or less, right? Yeah. If you've got six in a string, you were doing well. Yeah. But I mean, you'd, you know. We're spread all over the place down for miles and miles and miles. To further right, it gets better up here.

Yeah. Yuvil has never ever thought going there, or there. The north side. Gerard was the odd duck, because he fished deep water there before a lot of them on the north side. Did he? Yeah, he always did. As Gerard said, I had to wait two days. You get the crabs and the conks and then they clean them up and the lobsters just start.

You see a lot of one, the horns would have there looked like he's cooked, right? Yeah. He knew they were coming and not fair away. But yeah, there's a body of fish there, for sure, especially at the east point of her. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. Especially at east point. Right I used to say, I can't get serious, she said, beyond 12th Adam, right?

I said, Jesus, you got to try, you got to give it a, he'd be scared going to lose one day, right? back inside again, he came out, dump three or four trails there. I wouldn't say. Yeah, you were ahead of your time. West of you, when you come out though. You were a deepwater fellow before deep water started. What took you, Dreb, what took you to deep water when John's saying you're different? Why aren't you similar to these get? Why did you go deep water?

I never seen them coming down at the woods yet. There's got to come somewhere, right? The lake's where fish and sand now. They've got to go across the sand and they get dust and they're off. Yeah. But back in the day we always waited for them, right? Now the fishermen are not waiting for them. They're going...

Can't afford to wait. Can't afford to wait anymore. No. Well, one time you couldn't go to deep water. There was everything there except lobster. There was conks and there was crabs and there was spider crabs and there was... and there was junk with George figured that they were little earlier there was a couple of days of that junk and then the lobsters would start so he'd kind of clean it up. How come there's no conks anymore?

There's a few years there. Jesus Christ, we're outside, especially yeah, I'd be outside of them. The traps would be that full of them, right? The square traps, right? Yeah, yeah, yes. Very few this year. The only lasted a couple of years right? Used to get the east point off shore to up to three, four miles. There, see, as far as I went, it was east point, it was three miles off. Okay. Now they're lost eight miles off.

Yeah. Six and eight miles off he's fine. They're just going, going, going. That's the sandalers up there in the Scottled where the scottles. Yeah. Used to be, right? We got, had them drug all over to the goddamn place, had them drug clean down the McKinn's Point.

And Scalbers with the big bellies. Yes. Yeah. Donnie ain't here. No. We mean Donnie. We mean Donnie. Yeah, we were torturing the Northside scholars here one year out and south here.

Oh yeah? Donny, Rob was and I were there. Collins and then fill us from the north side with the big bellies. They were catching all the loxers and coming over here and catching their scallops too. Yep. Damn northiders hey. Yeah but yeah well she's a big business today. Sure is. Sean if you have no more questions we'll call it a wrap right sure John's getting me, Pat any other questions you got no appreciate you boys doing it. Thank you no problem see really good to here now. That's right you got a good story about your

bunchies telling that off camera Enjoyed that.