Shaun Newman Podcast - #1128 - Ches Crosbie

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Ches Crosbie is a Newfoundland and Labrador lawyer and former politician. A Rhodes Scholar who studied at Oxford and Dalhousie, he founded a class-action law firm in 1991 and later led the Progressive Conservative Party from 2018 to 2021 while serving as Leader of the Opposition. He won a Windsor Lake byelection in 2018, grew the party’s seats in 2019, then lost his own seat and resigned as leader after the 2021 election. He later served as chairman of the National Citizens Inquiry, which examined Canada’s COVID-19 response.Silver Gold Bull Links:Website: https://silvergoldbull.ca/Email: [e-mail] Grahame: [phone]Bow Valley Credit UnionBitcoin: www.bowvalleycu.com/en/personal/investing-wealth/bitcoin-gatewayEmail: [e-mail] Nor’East Apothecary - USE promo code SNP for 15% off your orderhttps://thepowerofplants.ca/Get your voice heard: Text Shaun 587-217-8500

This is Brett Weinstein. This is Tom Lomago. This is Bruce Party. This is Alex Krenner. Hey, this is Brad Wall. This is Dr. Pierre Corey. Hi, this is Frank Paredi. This is Daniel Smith.

This is James Lindsay. This is Vance Crow and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Tuesday. How's everybody doing today? Well, it seems fitting, I guess, that today's episode, Chess Crosby would come out while we're heading back across the ocean towards Nova Scotia. I first met Chess.

He would call it a coincidence. I don't really believe in coincidences anymore. And, well, there he was. We met on the boat. We sat. We had a chat there where he asked me a bunch of questions, and we got to know one another. And then, of course, I finally met up with him in St. John's.

And that's what today's episode is. So today, as we, you know, as you're listening to this, We are getting closer, hopefully, to being back at Nova Scotia. So hopefully your Tuesday, wherever you're at, you've got a little bit of sunshine. I've been missing the sunshine. It has been, we hiked yesterday, and we had some sunshine. After that, it has been windy, cloudy, what feels like for like two weeks, man, I'm looking forward to seeing the sun again. Now, when it comes to precious metals, what are we talking about?

You know who we're talking about. We're talking about Silver Gold Bull, the boys that started from... Rocky Mountain House and now out of Calgary. Of course, they're North America wide. I point out that they're Alberta while I sit in Newfoundland, but, you know, if you're sitting in Newfoundland, you want some silver, or some silver gold, I was going to say, some silver gold bowl.com.

Silvergold bowl.com. And you can sign up for an account. They ship across Canada, across North America, for that matter. And, you know, if you've got questions around buying, selling, storing precious metals, you can find out more by texting or emailing Graham. It's down on the show notes on Spotify and Apple. You can also get a hold of me and I can point you in the right direction.

But precious metals for all your precious metal needs, look to silver gold bull. Rectec, for over 20 years, Rectec Power Products have been committed to excellence in the power sports industry. I tell you one of the cool things about being in Newfoundland, we're getting off the ferry, and there's just, there's quads, there's side by sides. I'm like, oh, man, somebody needs to text me and tell me, like, there must be some amazing quad. trails side by side, like just trails to go off-roading on, because the amount of people doing it has been noticeable here in Newfoundland. And, you know, I was thinking, oh, man, hey, Rectech, how about we have a little, that would be an expensive one, but imagine bringing some Rectec

gear out to Newfoundland and having a little bit of fun. That would be fun. Now, if you're back in Alberta or Saskatchewan, of course, Rectec is in my hometown of Lloyd Minster. They're one of the unofficial border markers on the west side. And if you get the chance Monday through Saturday when they're open to stop in and see their showroom, you really should. They've got a little bit of everything, you know, side by side's, quads, boats, Lund fishing boats, pontoon boats, you know, C-Dus, snowmobiles, all the things. You go in and you're like, man, this is a nice spot.

You can say hi to Ryan. That's the manager there. Or if you're lucky enough, bump into a friend of ours, Al, he owns the place. And, well, they'll get you hooked up, okay? Now, you can find out all the things by just going online, rechtech power products.com. You can see everything they got there. But I encourage you to stop in. And I encourage Alan Ryan, if you're listening, man, it'd be fun to come to Newfoundland

and do a little bit of whatever all these quads and side by sides are doing. I'm sure the trails are unbelievable. I couldn't believe it when I got on the ferry and saw a lineup of quads sitting there. Pretty cool. Now, online, if you're looking for somebody to build you a website, help you with the store, I don't know, secure your websites and no hacker ever gets it. Planetcom. That's what they do.

They've been doing this for 20 plus years. They're here to boost your productivity and proactively manage every aspect of your IT infrastructure. Well, I tell you what, when it comes to my world, I just relax knowing that Carl and the team have my back and are making sure that nothing happens there. Now, Carl and his team, Planetcom, they're out of Sherwood Park, and you can find them at PlanetCon. So for anything online, head to Planetcom and say hi to Carl and his team over there, planetcom. com.com.com. If you're tired of mass-produced wellness that doesn't deliver, well, let me introduce you. Last week we got to meet Laura.

Nor East Apothecary Crafts. I shouldn't say you got introduced to her. She'd been on once before, but we got reintroduced to her. Nor East Apothecary Crafts, small batch, tinctures, teas, salves, shampoos, conditioners. Ooh, yeah. And that's on their PEI farm. Clean health and wellness for your entire family. You can visit the powerofplants.ca and use code SMP for 15% off.

And you can get to get to know what they're doing. And it's pretty cool. I've had a few texts come in already of people ordering, so that's really cool. You get 15% off if you use the promo code SMP. The SMP Road Trip has been powered by Zeebs. Of course, they're out of Chestermere, Alberta. That's Zeyn and his father, Brian. The Zebs Performance Restorations, Deliver,

Expert Classic Car Restorations, Custom Exhaust, and Performance Upgrades that keep your ride reliable and roaring. And you can find all about them at Zeebs.ca today. I tell you what, in Newfoundland, where the gas price was $2.18 a liter, I would sure love to have Brian come and do some work to make my ride a little more fuel efficient. That's one of the things they can do for you, up to 30% fuel efficiency,

and when gas prices continue to do what they're doing, holy mac, I think we need that more than ever. So find them at zeebs.ca. If you are watching the podcast, enjoying the podcast, whether you're on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Rumble, X, Facebook, substack, all the things. Make sure to subscribe,

make sure to leave a review. Make sure to send me a text. That's the best way to get hold of me. I know people comment on different platforms, but my number is scattered all over the place. Feel free to send me a text. Love hearing from all you find folks. And make sure to share with a friend

if you're enjoying the show, okay? That's one of the ways we continue to get out to new people is by you find folks continuing to find ones. You're like, ah, you should hear this. And hopefully I continue to do things like that. If you're not on Substack, you really should. The week in review just came out again.

Every Sunday that comes out. And then, of course, we got bonus questions from a majority of the guest. Chess has bonus questions today, and that's for paid members. That's one of the ways you can support the podcast. If you're buying your things through the power of plants, it's another way you're supporting the podcast.

There's lots of different ways. Your silver, your gold purchases through silver gold bowl, all these things come back to help support what I do. And I appreciate every time one of you does that. I appreciate it immensely. But substack, that's where lots of cool things are going on. St. Louis, Jack has been working his butt off to make that place somewhere that you want to hang out.

And hopefully that's becoming a place you're turning to. And if you are, make sure to drop a note to Jack, too, to say, hey, thanks for making John a little better. Anyways, we are on our way back across the ocean today on the ferry. And hopefully back in Nova Scotia where I've got some cool interviews being lined up right now. I'm really excited to get back to Nova Scotia. Newfoundland has been a blast at the trip across Canada. Still continues. We're into Nova Scotia now for about the next week, 10 days, something like that.

And then we start into the United States. So if you know of people down the East Coast that would be worthwhile, now's your time. Don't wait until we're in there. Now's your time to shoot me a text with, hey, this person right here would be interesting as we try and line some interviews up going down the East Coast. That's what I got for you today. Hope everybody's having a good Tuesday. Now, let's get on to that tale of the tape. Today's guest is a Canadian lawyer and former politician.

I'm talking about Chess Crosby. So buckle up. Here we go. Well, welcome to Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Chess Crosby. Sir, thanks for doing this. It's been A to get into your house or welcomed into your house. And to be sitting here in St. John's is, I mean, ever since we hit the

the East Coast, it's just been raining nonstop, so that's been interesting. But regardless, thanks for sitting down and doing this. We do get better weather, so you have to come back another time. Yeah, well, I was telling you and your wife, like 20 years ago, I was here, and it was beautiful. Like, I have memories of Signal Hill kind of like seared on my brain, well, as a younger man. And now you can't really see it. So, this is just Newfoundland weather. Fog comes in, fog goes out.

It doesn't shine. But basically there must be something about the place that keeps us here. And we all have a, those of us who live here have a certain love for it. Well, I mean, I come from Lloyd Minster in the middle of the prairies, which people would, I've had joked, call it the edge of the world. Because it's so far from a major center and the weather and everything else. And I love it. I love the people there. There's just an attitude that anything can be conquered type thing. Yeah, Alberta has that kind of attitude.

Although our affection for this place, my father used to tell the story of the Newfoundlander who knocked on the pearly gates. And the problem was that they were the only ones who wanted to go home. Well, that's a good story, though. When St. Peter asked what they wanted, yeah. So, Chess, you know,

it's funny like I run into people closer I got to Newfoundland and then your name started percolating and I was like I don't know who that is which I've found that a lot as I've journeyed across Canada and even after the COVID days when I've been interviewing what I thought was everyone I just kept finding more and more wonderful people across the country that had stood up for not only our rights but I've stood up before and have been very active in politics and then you know to be on the same ferry as you I you called it coincidence I don't believe in coincidence so I I chuckled about it I was like oh isn't that funny so to be sitting here this morning I think is pretty pretty cool for the audience out West

maybe my audience in general maybe they know exactly who you are I'm gonna assume they don't tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into anything as Grock would I forget how you put it at Grock the questions I might ask you but just tell us a bit about yourself Well, I'm born and bred in Newfoundland. I come from a line of several generations of Newfoundlanders, and several of those generations had something to do with politics. So I guess you could say that political matters and political interests

sort of come with the bloodline. That's one way to put it. If your viewers are wondering who's that sort of frowning over my shoulder, they're painted on the back of the chair. His name is Joey Smallwood, who was the leader of the forces in favor of Confederation in 1948 when we had a referendum vote on whether to join Canada or as my grandfather, also Chess Crosby, argued to the population.

He was the head of the contending forces against the Confederation and in favor of a form of economic union with the United States. Smallwood won and became the premier for 20. years. My father was in his cabinet, cross swords with Premier Smallwood left, eventually joined the conservatives, the PCs, as we call them here. And myself, I was leader of the opposition for four years, which took me into the COVID period. And then Premier Fury called an election in February of 2021, right in the middle of COVID, and right in the middle of an anticipated wave of COVID and the election was basically shut down with in-person voting canceled.

It was a real complete shambles. So that was my second general election and as opposition leader you don't get too many kicks at that cut. So I resigned. I'd also lost my own seat and I resigned from that and as time came by, but I was, I resigned by and I had the time on my hands to take stock of what was happening in the country during COVID, I ended up working with the National Citizens' Inquiry. And we traveled across the country, eight different locations, and heard from many different

witnesses, expert and ordinary people, and did what no government was willing to do, which is take stock of the effect of the effect of the government. of the government response to the COVID crisis on the people of the country. And that record is archived and exists both in written form and the video as a record for future generations. Yeah, well, along this trip,

I've interviewed a lot of people who certainly testified at the National Citizens Inquiry, but in my time in Manitoba, Ken Drysdale and me sat down for an interview the the book that has been archived where you can just flip through it sits in the studio back home so you know anyone that wants to understand like truly wants just go understand some of the things that went on during COVID like that book is as you i think the word you use is archive i mean it's yeah i mean nationally and provincially we still have amnesia about that period of that period of government overreach. To the best of my knowledge, no province,

and certainly not the federal government, has seen fit to do any kind of formal look back on the period, commission of inquiry, to take stock of what occurred and learn lessons for the future about how to handle it better. In other words, we just haven't done that. Normally in the face of a major crisis like that. That's one of the first things the government does. But that simply hasn't happened in this country. We have a national case of amnesia about it. We will get over that, I think. We're slowly getting over it. And the Allison Inquiry in Ottawa, which took place this week, is a symptom of our slow recovery from that national amnesia. Well, the thing is, it's not just Canada. It's worldwide that it's a, a slow.

slow turn to get amnesia, as you put it, like to unravel it? Sure. That's because we still have the people in power in many cases, in most countries, who were responsible for the excesses. And so, of course, they don't want to, and they're aware of that. So they don't want to, they don't want any look back taking place, which would expose their mishandling of the whole thing. un-epic proportions.

Colossily mishandled, colossal victimization of people, a national hysteria instituted in many countries around the world. The one exception to that would be the United States. Trump was in office when the thing got started, but he wasn't there for the worst excesses. Biden was. And so why do you bring that up? do you bring the United States up? Why is that the exception? Well, we sort of got into it because you asked me for some of my background. So after I'd been in politics, I had time to reflect

on what was going on in the country. And I was very distressed to see how the country, Canada, that I thought I lived in, wasn't the place I thought I lived in at all. I had conceptualized Canada and other liberal democracies, as governments states in which, which basically had the best interests of the population in mind, but were often incompetent in how they delivered on that. But I changed my mind drastically on that and arrived at the conclusion that, you know, if you want to put it rather vividly, actually they want you dead, because that's the way they behaved.

Well, the country I thought I lived in, a country which was dedicated to individual rights and liberties, turned out not to be that at all. And we do need a drastic change in Canada and in all parts of Canada if we're to realize in the original promise of the country, whether individually or in the case of the various provinces. We need drastic change in Canada. Coming from a family and politicians, right? Like, I just, your grandfather was a prominent man in politics,

maybe in business and everything else too. You can talk to that if you like. Then your father certainly was a prominent guy in politics. You know, I was a checklet on the boat because, you know, I was watching the couple beside us. They figured out, they were looking at the eye. You're across. And I'm like, oh, this is interesting.

Like, your family's name has. Recognition. Thank you. Thank you. And so sitting around your family's dinner table when you're discussing politics and you're discussing, you know, the strategies that are being implemented right in front of us on a daily basis by whether it's the liberals, conservatives. I mean, if you want to stick in the NDP or the Greens or whoever else. But, you know, you watch it. And the common person, you know, uneducated. I can simply say that and raise my hand. because five years ago, I had no idea how anything in our country worked.

And then I started to dig into the conversation. I'm like, uh, let's just fix us. It can't be that hard. That would be an idiotic thing to say around, I assume, the Crosby dinner table because you have a, your third generation, maybe longer, of politicians or people that were involved in politics. When you watch Canada, what it's doing and what it's becoming, it's like, well, it isn't just the simplest flip on the light switch and everything goes back.

I think we're all starting to be in the understand that. In Alberta, they got rid of Kenny, and they put in Daniel Smith. And I think for a lot of people, they thought, just there, the switch is done, we can go back and everything will change. But there's just so many little fights on so many different levels that have to take place and have to be won. How do you look at Canada and go like, okay, it isn't the place I thought it was? How do you instruct a younger generation if you want to be one? something different. This is what needs to happen. Hmm. Well, what I've come to realize more clearly is true change doesn't happen just at the

political level. It involves change throughout the institutions of society, and it involves the implanting of sets of values and understandings of what valuable about human life and while we have how it is that a society can sustain productivity and the production of the material wealth that people want and also provide spiritual nourishment to a population that requires us rather that requires an understanding of the traditions of the past that got us to the relatively advantage place we are in the world and how to preserve those against the forces that would tear them down and destroy them.

And so you don't just arrive at that or do that by being involved at the political level. It has to be something that happens all the way through the institutions of society. So it is to borrow an expression along March, a long march to educate, people as to how it is we're going to keep what's truly valuable about Canada that we want to save and nurture and preserve. What do you think is truly valuable about being Canadian? Well, in a broad sense, the world is engaged in a struggle between individualism and collectivism. I think you could put it that way. We somehow, you know, we thought understandably that in the battle against Soviet communism, that by 1989,

90, 91, when the Soviet Union broke up, that we won. The free world had won that particular struggle. But what I think has happened, what I'm tending to think happened, is that struggle just moved internal to those societies like the United States, like Canada, which thought that they had won that battle between individual and individuality, individualism, and collectivism. And now it's moved into the institutions of the countries that thought they won. And so that's the struggle Canada has to fight,

is to vindicate individual rights and freedoms truly hold them uppermost and reject the collectivist tendencies that have gotten a very, very strong foothold in this country. You mentioned something. You said a bunch of different things about Canada and the population. And one of the ones that I just jotted down with spiritual nourishment, you know, in a country that we're secular. And we almost, well, I would say our leaders celebrate that we're secular. There is nothing that binds us together.

There is no common values, national identity. You know, like you watch the leaders of Canada regurgitate. those lines. When you talk about spiritual nourishment, in your mind, what does that mean? Well, this country was founded on the basis of Christian traditions and ideals, which is not to say there isn't room for other spiritual traditions, but that was the foundation stone of Canada as much as it was in the United States. the fathers of Canadian Confederation were at least as dedicated to the value of Christian tradition and Christian churches as those who founded the United States a little bit before that, at least.

But, you know, as time has gone on, we've adopted secular traditions, and many of the established churches themselves were among the institutions that abandoned their commitment to things like traditional Christian meetings and holding services. And I think it betrayed their own truths. That's not all of Christianity, but many of the established churches did that. And we have to recover a commitment to the spiritual traditions embodied in the practice of Christian churches. And as I say, I'm not trying to exclude any other valuable spiritual tradition. Well, I think Christianity allows for other, it gives the space for them to exist.

Right? I mean, they're very, Christianity is very accepting. And then find it funny, you know, sitting on the rock, I'm like, as a country, I don't know if I'd ever thought about it this way until you started talking about it. But as a country, we've decided to build anywhere but the rock. and you know the scripture would say if you build on the rock no storm can come and wash you away right and certainly being a secular nation when it's just like any little storm that comes feels like it's washing us away everything is upside down yeah because you don't have that kind of an anchor right yeah well

i i i i said with preston manning this was man was this two three years ago chess it was a It was a while ago. And I didn't know, obviously I didn't know his father. I'm as much younger. But one of the things I found interesting is that his father used to go on Sunday mornings and have his radio broadcast. And I told Preston back then, I'm like, what I see happening is more people turning back to Christianity, just in droves.

You know, there's lots of data coming out. And I don't even know if I need the polls to tell me, just go into a church or talk to pastors. You're going to find out that young people are going back to church. They're like, there has to be more life than, you know, all the craziness that society is doing. And in our conversation with Preston, or my conversation with Preston, he was surprised by that. And I was like, oh, that's what I see now. I'm, you know, one of the guys out marching around talking to people all over the place. Although I did find it interesting yourself on the ferry how well you interacted with people and just talk to the common man.

You find out there's a lot of people are so confused of what's going on, right? It doesn't, why are we debating such silly things? I keep, where I struggle right now is I thought we were past, I really thought we were past men going into women's sports. Like, I was interviewing people with this like two years ago, three years ago. And then I think back to Jordan Peterson and some of the things he said 10 years ago, I'm like, oh, we're past us. And then that is still a contentious issue.

And I didn't realize issues like that could take those, so long to resolve even when the answer is so plainly evident and we just move on with life. Yeah. In current it's due to divisive forces in society preying on the tolerance of most people in society and putting forward the idea that empathy, compassion, the desire to treat people equally demands these inverted approaches to life, like allowing men to play in women's sports. Those who are tolerant tolerate that for a while for a long time, particularly when the institutions of society have been converted to that, the governments and the sports

governing bodies and so on. But eventually it just seems too crazy and there is a counter-revolution against that, which you see very plainly in the United States. Trump is part of or maybe the leader of a counter-revolution, but it's not just Trump. We're more, you know, we're not the vanguard of that. It's going to take us a while longer, but we're always influenced heavily about what happens in the United States, and thankfully so, because the United States is the beacon for freedom in the world. Well, you know, you talk about men and women's sports.

Ah, we're tolerant. I liken it to, there was a food professor, Sylvan Charlebeau, had an op-ed, I believe it was, talking about most people are in favor of counter-terrorism and like going at the United States heart. But their favor of that goes down when it comes to personal losses. If they're going to feel the loss, then all of a sudden they're like, oh, maybe we should just stop for a second.

to me and my experience with men and women's sports it seems like this far off concept that's something way over there then they're ever going to impact me and then it impacts somebody and then they're they're drastically against it most people are tolerant sure I almost put it as um they don't think it's ever going to enter their life and so they just go ah whatever that's so far away I remember thinking that in COVID I watched Ocean Wisebock it tackled in Calgary on an Oak Door rink where they had spread great like I just think of the insanity that went on in COVID now Calgary's five hours for me and I remember thinking oh that's a big center big centers are nuts that'll never happen in Lloyd and then it happened in Lloyd and you go I

guess I'm no longer naive that stupid ideas like men and women sports won't become a thing unless tolerance or apathy we just have to get rid of them because it attacks the very fundamentals of our society. There are men and their women. Well, it's being called inversionism. In other words, it takes things that are reasonable, traditional, valuable, and it turns them on their head or turns them inside out and then ask everyone to accept that in the name of empathy, compassion, um, I mean, um, DEI, What's that? Diversity, equity, and inclusion.

You know, that's the standard there. Well, what is equity? It's what equity is not equality. Equity is whatever is in the eye of the beholder. So, you know, I think that you can get a tolerant people to go along with crazy stuff for a certain length of time. But eventually, common sense comes back. You see common sense coming back then?

I mean, obviously in the United States, some of the things going on and some of the things Trump's saying, you're like, oh, my goodness, finally somebody's saying it. And to have a leader saying it, I guess, is more, because lots of common people have been saying it. But if you don't hold a position of high importance, they just write you off. Sure. Well, the presidency has been called a bully pulpit. In other words, when the president says something, it gets covered. and it goes far and wide. So it's a great pulpit for broadcasting a moral point of view.

Now, having said that, there's much to value in President Trump's counter-revolution, it's been called. But I'm not an uncritical Trump supporter. But I do think that Canadians have done themselves at his service by becoming, you know, 85 or 90% of the population captive to Trump Drenchment Syndrome. When you're captive to an irrational dislike or even hatred of a particular foreign leader whose country is extremely important to your own country, then you're not going to make rational decisions in how you handle relations with that country.

And I'm afraid that's where we are right now. We're in a national state of hysteria about the United States, which is preventing us from making rational decisions about our own best interest. You use 85, 90 percent. I assume that's the rock. I assume that's the East Coast. No, that's my own estimate about Canada. I mean, that's a personal estimate. No, understandably, I guess the reason I bring it up is back in the ballpark.

In the West, I would say it's much lower than that. Now, I'm not sitting here saying it isn't there or what definitely is. And it isn't like it's 90% or pro-Trump. That certainly isn't the case either, but the number is just much higher. Yeah. I always go, you know, when I look at COVID, we talk about like the governments don't want to look at the government or what happened then because they were the government. In Alberta, they're the only province that I know, unless I'm mistaken and have missed something,

ousted its leader because of what went on in COVID. Right? And so there is an independent thinking going on in Alberta right now, which is messy and argumentative and a lot of different things. But people are like, we're done with this. We're done with being told how to think, when to think it, where to go, how many feet to stand apart, wear a mask, don't wear a mask, take that shot. You won't take the shot. We'll give you a million bucks in a draw.

If you'll take the shot, eat a burger, all these stupid ideas. We've been through it all. And I'm not saying we got everything. just smooth and right and everything out. It was messy. When it comes to TDS, T.D. S yes, Trump, derangement syndrome. Don't know why that sounded wrong coming out of my mouth. TDS. It's interesting to watch people get so emotional. It's almost like, man, this has got to be the easiest thing Trump's ever done. Just poke, poke, you know, like Lake America is, I mean, from the West, it's hilarious, right? Like, I mean, all you got to do is not react.

act and you just carry on with life. Yes, exactly. So, you know, when Trump started getting on near the beginning of his administration, with Canada becoming the 51st state, Preston Manning told me, actually, that he, in his mind, he started out as a joke. It was a joke he made in an interview. Then when he saw the reaction it got, he kept it up because that's Trump.

But also, he realized that putting the... The negotiating counterparty, being Canada and the trade negotiations off balance, is a sound negotiating technique. And that's what he's done. And that's why he's kept it up. So we would have been much better off had we just treated it like what it started to be. In other words, as a joke, oh, that's just Trump. But I'm afraid we lack the self-confidence to do that.

something, not so much in out west, I think, or even out east, but definitely in Ontario. There's a lack of self-confidence in people in really knowing, in having an identity and knowing what the Canadian identity is. And that's why we've fallen for Trump's button pushing over and fallen into a state of hysteria about what he says. And that has disadvantaged us greatly in negotiating with the United States in any rational way. The self-confidence is an interesting, it's an interesting thought. I've been thinking for a while now, we've been in such a victim mentality for so long. You have to learn your way out of that.

You have to like, you know, if to use, you know, if you're out of shape, you can't just get in shape the next day. You have to work your way out of that. And there's a confidence that comes with doing that. Sure. And this victim mentality, I think of like the media's complicity. Complacency, I can't say it today. I'm welcome to the podcast today. Regardless, the media is complicit.

Thank you. They keep reinforcing it. That's what makes it even worse, right? Like they just keep reinforcing terrible after, terrible after terrible ideas. And so therefore. Not your media, but the legacy media. But in fairness chess, I probably get things wrong too. I'm okay with that. I don't know a lot of things. I've had to learn a lot of tough lessons on the way.

It's just, I'm open to that. I'm open to learning and being like, I'm probably getting a couple things wrong and that's okay. But when it comes to like seeing the self-confidence, like you, I was thinking again this morning, driving in from our campground, I'm like, man, there's just so much potential in this country. It is insane to me. If you're sitting in, I don't know, take your third world country that just maybe there's, Maybe there's potential there too, and it's government, it's leaders, it's corrupt, it's human beings. You drive across Canada. All I see is potential. It's just everywhere from natural resources to landscape, to water, to energy, to people. And I run into them all the time.

And then what is our leadership doing? It's just like put us into this victim mentality where we're, the only thing we can think of is saving the plan. We're going to save it by getting rid of everything we do. It doesn't make any sense. We're going to save the human race by constricting them so they don't think they become the Borg. And by the way, we're going to kill them along the way. Right? Like none of these ideas make any sense other than it's propaganda from the media.

Politicians. I don't know if it's what becomes the chicken or the egg comes first in that thing. But certainly everybody knows by now that the major media outlets are, subsidized by the government. So like... No, but not the people. The people who still treat mainstream media, including CBC, as their source of trusted information, and there's still a lot of them out there. What is it?

Is it 40% of the population? I don't know, but it's a substantial portion. They don't see it that way. They think they're getting the truth. That's changing. It's changing slowly. It is changing. And that's why outfits like CBC are so desperate to fight to preserve their, what's the right word, their custody of what people understand the news to be, because they know that they're facing extinction if the troop does get out to more people. Yeah, it's, I would assume once again with technology and everything else, the younger generations are turning away from establishment media.

That's what seems to be so. Certainly I have, and I'm hardly a young person. It's not just young people, but yeah, the younger generations are more apt to tune into social media for their sources of information about the world. And I think greatly so because the established sources are propaganda belts. Yes. I don't watch the news anymore, you know, the network news. I just don't.

I don't listen to CBC radio. I used to. I'm curious, you know, Newfoundland has a part, a large part, or it's part in, I'm going to switch to hockey for a second. just your thoughts on it. You know, um, hockey night in Canada was a thing all through my childhood. And for a lot of little communities,

the rink is the heartbeat of the community, right? Like, it's where everybody gravitates to. It's kind of the community hall. This year is going to be, it's a strange one. I put it up there with, um, as strange as

don cherry getting removed from, coach's corner. That was, you know, love or hate Ron McLean. He played a part and played as a part for part of Canada. And Don Cherry certainly spoke a different part for part of Canada. It was kind of the ying and the yang, if you would, of culture going back and forth. That's why Don Cherry was uberly popular. It's not because nobody liked them.

Obviously, tons of people liked them. Hockey Night in Canada will no longer be hockey night in Canada after, well, moving forward now. It's going to be Saturday. Hockey. Your thoughts on that? Saturday night hockey. They're removing the hockey in Canada. Okay. So, you know, that's for at least the last 11 years, and you can extend it back further than that, but the last 11 years on a national level, we've been governed by a political party which has devoted itself to eroding and destroying our national institutions.

Why? Because it basically does not believe in Canadian sovereignty. It is a globalist party. I'm referring, of course, to the Liberal Party of Canada. Trudeau was a globalist. He didn't believe in Canada or in Canadian sovereignty, and in fact he said so. And now we've got a guy Carney who comes across as, you know, he looks like a tidy put-together banker type. People have invested confidence in him because of his background credentials. Certainly he doesn't wear Trudeau socks. I don't think anybody wears Trudeau socks. But he's more dangerous because he's more cunning and he has the same agenda. So what you mentioned about hockey night in Canada going extinct, that's all part and parcel of the effort to destroy all the familiar landmarks of what it traditionally was to be Canadian. the globalist part is unnerving to where I sit because I'm sure it's no news to you

all the recent elections liberals won them all I see Carney being even in even in circles where I wouldn't think people would be like oh he's doing a good job saying oh he seems like he's standing up for Canada he's he's leading us the right way I watch Pierre Pullia now on a media tour in the state States, and I watched interviews and I find it really interesting because he's like, I won't talk ill of my prime minister. And that gives legitimacy back to what Carney's doing because it's deferring to he has a plan and we can't fight amongst ourselves and everything else. Meanwhile, you sit and everything he just said, it's like, if you believe the Carney is undermining the sovereignty of Canada, you sat in the chair that was official opposition? What are your thoughts on do you just go along and play nice in other countries so we can get a deal?

Or do you have to start speaking a different way? I actually don't know the answer. Yeah, I mean, this is a tough one, and I'm not there to have to make the decision. So it's easy to sit outside. Sure. And criticize. But, I mean, we live in a democracy, which is supposed to be based on freedom of speech and discourse and discussion. So I can tell you my point of view on it.

And that is that we're making a mistake in thinking we can create, carve out some role for ourselves or niche in the world that's more independent of the United States than what it already is. We do 75% of our trade with the United States. That's basically not going to change by much. Trying to get cozy as Mr. Kearney wants to do with China is not the way to go. Why would we want to cozy up with the champion in the world of collectivism and communism when we have next door the champion in the world of individualism and individual rights and freedoms? That seems to me to be perverse. That's the basic struggle right now between two world forces or hegemism.

or powers is the United States and its supporters are blocking the world and China and its supporters or block. Why would we, living next door with a tremendously long border with the United States, tremendously integrated with their economy, tremendously sharing traditionally their ideals and values, why would we want to grow closer to communist China? This to me is another, example of perversionism and inversionism. So instead, why don't we think about proposing Mr. Trump in this administration more integration with the United States, particularly on the level of continental defense? Here we are supposedly doing military exercises with the Chinese. Come on, what are we doing here? We should instead be integrating more close

into a continental defense system, continental security, the idea of fortress North America and the fortress hemisphere that we live in. That is where history is going. That's where the United States is going. You can never underestimate the power

of the United States and the world. It is that powerful. And we want to fight that. Instead, we should be looking for favored status within that. You brought up individualism and collectivism again. you talked about that at the start.

I'm like that actually, you go, why are we cozying up to China? Maybe I'm wrong on this, but in your own terms, just your own thoughts on it, whether it's 70% or 90%, doesn't matter, have TDS, right? They're against the U.S.

When, you know, sitting in the West, I go, well, I'm not saying it's 90%, but certainly that number is a lot higher than 50%. In my opinion, maybe I'm wrong on my numbers, folks, are interested in working with the U.S. So you go, the West, shouldn't surprise anybody. We ousted Kenny, we've been very raucous,

we have a referendum coming up, very individual, like, championing those rights. In the East, it was elected a liberal government who is closing up to China, who is very collective, and you know, this is the divide of Canada right now, isn't it? Or am I wrong in that? Because we can sit here and go, in one breath, you could go, ah, there isn't that many individualistic people that think that way in the West.

But I'm like, actually, those people don't get a whole lot of air time. Like, the media doesn't want to talk to that thought process. The mainstream media does not reflect Canada back to itself. It reflects, again, a perverted version of Canada back to Canada. It's not an accurate picture. I think, though, that if, Sean, if you take the people who, you know, you could call the elbows up crowd and ask them some questions about how much affection they actually feel for communist China, I don't think those people actually admire China. On this trip, Chess, whether people believe it or not, I don't know. Like, on the trip, I've got to talk to lots of different people.

I know I've sat and talked to liberal voting people, NDP. And what I've found is when you sit there and talk to them, nobody's happy about the way Canada is going. Yeah. And so instead of, it's curious, I found when I push on it just far enough not to get them angry at me, just far enough to try and figure out where they're at. Most of them feel helpless like there's nothing I can do. That's probably the standard answer. I'm just one person. What can I do?

Nothing's working right or watching my country fall apart right in front of me. And so then we put a bad guy in place, Donald Trump, and all of our anger and frustration with the way the country is going gets directed at him. The Liberal Party has been magnificent in their direction of that. It's been, you know, like frustrating, yes, to watch, but also like, wow, they are doing a great job of taking an issue. that is solely on their plate they've been running this country for 11 years and somehow they're winning elections they're they're coming in they're just sweeping standards just walking in majority government getting people to hop over and you're like are we not gonna address the fact you're the reason we're

in the predicament we're in the reason the US is attacking us with tariffs and everything else isn't because Donald Trump's a loony man it's simply because of the leadership and the things that have been going on for 11 plus years now, we're not going to address that. Like, when you think about that, it's quite clever what they've been able to accomplish with a population that should know better. Yeah, but it's not unlike COVID because what Kearney managed to do is trigger a national moment of hysteria, which is still subsisting. It's still playing out. It's still playing out. Those moments of hysteria or those mind viruses, which some people like

to use that expression, they peter out eventually. And so what you've got to hope and expect, because these things never last, is that people, it was said by a writer who wrote about the Dutch tulip prices, which is a famous example of a financial bubble in economic history. He said, people lose their minds in groups,

but come back to their senses one by one. So the process of losing your mind. It's quick. It's quick and it happens to groups of people quickly. But it loses power and authority and people one by one do come back to their senses. We're doing that with respect to the COVID crisis gradually. And we're doing that with respect to the elbows up hysteria, I think, as well. And I'm just hoping that it won't be too late for Canada to survive.

Man, I've heard that a lot from really intelligent people. I look at you and I go, the things you've done, not to mention your law background, I'm like a ton of really intelligent people who probably stood on this a lot longer than I have, are hoping people come back to their senses before Canada. is no more. Like that is a scary thought. Yes. Well, you know, if I have any insight, it's because I've gotten it from other people, but it takes effort to, how should I put it to, you know, if you're going to say, I'm fed up with CBC, and other legacy media, they're lying to me, they're telling me, they're betraying me and what I think Canada should be.

then you have to find other sources of information if you want to be part of society and understand what's happening. And that takes some effort. You've got to curate your own sources on platforms like substack or like X, formerly Twitter, Facebook, whatever it might be, to work out for yourself what it is you trust as a source of information and to never set aside your own critical evaluation of your own critical evaluation of what you're being told. We all have that responsibility for ourselves. Well, I'm glad to hear you say, Sean, as someone who's been traveling across the country and taking the temperature

of the country, so to speak, that there's a general feeling that the country is broken and going in the wrong direction and that many, many people in the country feel the same way. So I guess the question becomes, how does that perception in so many citizens of Canada get crystallized and focused and galvanized into some form of political action so that we don't lose the country, Canada, which right now I give about a 25% chance to. How? That's a good, like, I think about that. I'm like, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if. them right in this. It could be very wrong. I'll throw you. Alberta independence focus on money. The attacks on Carney focus predominantly on money and poor deals and most of us. I'm not saying money doesn't matter because it certainly does. And if you're just getting by or not making ends meet, it really matters, right? A lot of us can feel it in our bones. Something is wrong.

But there's very few people who can articulate it of like men and women are not the same thing. And then take the heat for saying that because you know if you say that, mainstream media is going to demonize you. All the little groups that are well-funded are going to demonize you. It's just a fact. The fact that we are not secular, we're just not. Like, let's just throw that idea. That's a terrible idea.

It's just a terrible idea. You don't have to look that hard back into our past, the United States past. Lots of different countries passed to see how much faith plays a role. It just does. That's okay. Are there messy parts of it? Yeah, there certainly are. Made is a poor idea.

It just is. Couldn't have articulated it 10 years or five years ago for sure. But you look at it now and what doors it's opened up. It has been Pandora's box. Terrible idea. Just a terrible idea. And I'm sure there's going to be some people go, well, if you're 90, and you got stage whatever cancer or whatever dementia,

you should be able to pull a plug. Sure, maybe. But by doing that, we've opened it up to two-tier, two-track systems where we're getting into a whole bunch of places we never intended it for go. At least I would say, I say we, I think society didn't think it would go, and yet that's where it is.

And these are all things that have nothing to do with money. They're who we are. They're morals. We've lost our morals. I think we're waiting for a leader to walk in and talk about it openly and not feel ashamed of just like men and women aren't the same thing. I think you're speaking to a sort of moral bankruptcy in the culture. It's not to say that people of faith don't make mistakes. They certainly do.

Sometimes very grave ones. But you mentioned Maid. That's also a function of the ethics that's overtaken our society you could call utilitarianism. In other words, the utilitarianism seeks the greatest good for the greatest number, but it doesn't mind sacrificing individuals in the process who are not treated as ends in themselves. That's a different ethic. So it's a process of many things, a loss of faith, a constant gnawing away at the values that created the country, which has been taken up by, not just at the political level, but I'm talking now about the federal government of Canada

because there's 10 provincial governments which do things in somewhat different ways. But they've created a blob now to enforce their worldview of globalism and secularism on the country in general. The blob being the professional public service and the agencies of the government, including climatism, in other words, the belief that human activity is changing the climate or somehow could change the climate. These are all ideologies, but now the apparatus of public administration, some people call it the blob in the United States. I suppose you could use that term in Canada, the deep state is another way of getting at it. That's being used to adapt and perpetuate these ideologies now. We live in a very ideological society, the belief that we're somehow causing the climate

to change is another one. One of the stronger arguments that always seemed to me against that is that in the historical record, when scientists go back over the evidence of the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere over millions of years, whenever that's changed, the climate has changed first and then the level of carbon dioxide changes. So what that means is you just don't have causation because of carbon dioxide we're causing the change in the climate, the carbon dioxide level would change first, but it doesn't work that way.

It's this idea that we're more powerful than we are. That in part, I think to many column elites, if you want, for lack of a better word, in business and in government. Mr. Kearney is included in that very much so. It's all written all through his book values. Globalism finds climate change doctrine very congenial. For one thing, it's very hard to disprove it, although I think I just gave one method of disproving. There's no causation. But it's so amorphous a claim, and it changes its nature as time goes on. So whenever you get like Al Gore, the vice president of the United States at one time making predictions, next thing you know, they don't bear out.

In fact, these predictions never do bear out. And so you got a new set of predictions. It's amorphous and difficult to pin down and hard to disprove, so they like it for that reason. But it also gives an excuse for more collectivism, more control over ordinary people's lives, idea of 15-minute cities, for example, or the idea of carbon credits, I mean that's around now. Mr. Kearney's Brookfield has found ways to make money out of the idea of carbon credits, and they have investments in China. And we know that Carney has substantial stock options and investments in Brookfield. And his relations with China probably are better.

benefiting those investments. Eventually those kinds of things are going to seep through to the population. Maybe not now, but they will. They'll seep through eventually. In your network, people in politics and around it, do they all get that or no? Not asking for names, just... More people understand, you know, or what would agree with I said, with what I just said, said, then are publicly or ostensibly saying so, because those in the political world know that it's not politically acceptable right now to say those kinds of things. I'm not an act of politics, so I say them.

But if I were, I might not. Yeah, politically acceptable. You tried running for the Conservatives once upon a time, yeah? Well, I was, what you mean? Federal. Federal Conservatives. Yeah, I did, yeah. But it was unsuccessful,

because not unsuccessful in the way that you wouldn't have been a great candidate and all those things. One of the things I've seen through, once again, chess, it's been five years. I'm not acting like I'm a genius here, just that you follow things and you're like, This is really strange. Conservative Party is the one I stare at.

The liberals have done similar things too. So it's not unique to one party where they look at a candidate, excellent candidate from a lot of the public's eye. But for some reason they don't fit into their metric of who they want running. And so they disqualify them. You're a guy that when I read your story, that's what I find is you were disqualified. And I go, well, that's interesting. Especially coming out on the boat and in the first five,

minutes of meeting you relatively or not relatively it's amazing how quick people recognize who you are I'm like oh that's a recognizable guy that should be a guy who stood on a lot of different things everything you're talking about right now I'm like makes sense to me why would they disqualify you it this seems like a long time ago now this was when mr. Harper was still prime minister and he was going into what ended up being his last election in many Anyways, you might have thought I'd be an ideal candidate, although my timing and seeking nomination to run was probably bad because Harper was defeated in that particular election

2015. But I was refused the nomination, this is my belief, because of my sense of humor. They couldn't give me any rational explanation. There was a piece which got onto YouTube and other parts of social media in which I, you know, agreed to be part of a skit. And the skit was about, it was borrowing from Macbeth, the Shakespeare play, and it involved some sword play in which there was a McDuffie. And back in that day, Mike Duffy, a senator, was very much controversial in the news. And so I was in a sword fight with Nick Duffy.

I can't remember all the rest of it. But it was poking fun or spoofing. At the government. Yeah, there's spoofing the whole thing, which I thought people would enjoy and did enjoy. But it had turned into a government without a sense of humor. And so that was the end of my candidacy. Thank God for that because I probably would have lost.

It's funny. Maybe not funny. A government that's lost its sense of humor, that I mean and they haven't been back ever since I mean you know maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm too I sometimes wonder about myself might be becoming too idealistic where it's like if you run the best people right you get all these great candidates that want to run for the conservatives can they all win I'm sure there's going to be some tough areas like obviously it's not like the liberals don't have decent candidates running wherever they are I think as a government how they've ran the country is

very poor but Act like you could just run the best candidates in one party and go and have a landslide. Maybe I'm wrong on that. But I hear your story and I go, yeah, who cares if you're poking fun at the government? If I want to win, you know, like, I'm a hockey guy. Well, my mistake. You don't have, you don't have choir boys playing on an NHL team. Certainly you have a few. And you've got to have a good captain. You've got to have different things in there to make you a good team. You also need some rabble rousers, some fourth. line bangers and crashes, some guys who lighten the mood, all the things to make a championship team. And maybe I use the hockey analogy way too easily when it comes to politics. Well, my mistake probably was I should have waited until I had the nomination and then done the spoof. It would have been harder to get rid of me. Yeah, so, but yeah, I think humor is extremely important. Yes, it is.

We've, I don't know, maybe they are always around, but we're living in an era now of the meme. And, you know, you can meme people to death who take themselves way too seriously. That's happened to Kearney in a way. That's happened to Kearney. He's publicly in the last week complained about it. Yes, he has. Yeah. And, of course, that gives rise to more memes.

Yeah, let's happen with more. Yes, meme. I mean, it's hilarious to watch. I just like, just go talk to Trump. Like, just go talk to Trump. Just figure this out. Calm your people down. Now, that's a rational, I want Canada to be Canada.

That's not what we're talking about. Everything led up to that statement is like, well, you can see that's not what's going on here. Yeah, well, there's a theory that currently doesn't want a trade deal with the United States because he's now a prisoner of a movement that he created in the population, which is based on hysterical anti-Americanism and anti-Trumpism. And if he did a deal, then the deal would have to be looked at on its own merits, and his government would be scrutinized according to its merits.

They don't have a record right now to run on except anti-Americanism. What they have is a legacy of 11 years in which Eric Kemparkis. economy has not grown. And we are at the bottom of the G20 for economic growth. And you just can't have a country in which the economy stagnates for an extended period. Eventually the pressure is built up and the country is going to fragment. Alberta may be the first to go. I'm glad you brought up Alberta. I've been asking everybody. It's been very interesting. when I left Alberta, my goal was to ask, I haven't hit every guest, but I've tried my best to ask every guest their thoughts on what's happening in Alberta, whether or not they even care, you know, like, do you pay attention? Do you care? What do you think? You know, and as we get further and further east, it's been interesting to hear the responses. Your thoughts on what's going on in Alberta. You know, I think today where we sit, it's 37 days away from the referendum. Now, by the time this airs, it'll be less than that.

Do you know that song by Stan Rogers? Barrett's Privateers? I'm the last of Barrett's privateers. I'm a broken man on a Halifax Pier, the last of Barrett's privateers. Oh, a letter of Mark came from the year was 1778. Anyway, he gets a letter of Mark to go and commit acts of piracy against U.S. shipping and comes to a bad end. I kind of feel we're in a similar situation now with this trade war, as Terny likes to call it. The song ends, the, the antelope chased the American vessel for three whole days, and when they drew up alongside, they opened up with their cracked four-pounders.

and the Yankees stove them in with a bloody great ball. The antelope shook and turned on her side. Barrett was crushed like a bowl of eggs, and the mainsail carried off both me legs. I'm the last of Barrett's privateers. I'm afraid that's what's going to happen. I'll play you the song, actually, as you're packing up to go. It's a great song.

It sounds like a great song. Yeah. Alberta. Yeah. You stare at it from a long way off on the other side of the country. What do you think of, or what do you see from the far side of the country? Your thoughts on Alberta having a referendum? Well, I do subscribe to the Western standards, so, you know, I follow events in Alberta

and opinion in Alberta to that extent. Many thoughtful people think that Canada is greatly in need of meaningful constitutional change. And I do think that the only way that's going to occur is if a province, it could be Alberta, it could be Quebec, those are the two likely candidates at the moment, votes in favor of leaving the federation. And what that means, according to the Supreme Court of Canada, it doesn't mean they just leave, they up and leave like that. It's not a permission to just leave. What it means is there has to be a meaningful round of constitutional negotiations between the provinces, the federal government, and the province that might have a mandate for independence.

That, I'm afraid, is the only way we're going to see meaningful constitutional change in Canada. In other words, a vote for separation doesn't mean separation necessarily. You could say separation if necessary, but not necessarily. It could be the recipe for a renewed Canada. So are you rooting for Alberta then? Because, you know, if you look at it and you go, I don't know if Canada can survive, right? And you go back through this entire conversation, you give the, what was the probability, 25%? You're like, it's pretty dire odds, right?

It's a 75% chance of failure. You know, so you look at it and you go on the east, sitting on the rock, you go, man, in Alberta. Man, Alberta, do it right here October 19th so we can get down to some serious questions in the coming years. Yeah, well, it doesn't depend on me being sitting and watching this as a Newfoundlander and Labradorian. I think any thoughtful Canadian could be hoping that there is a vote for secession. I just, you know, I've explained the logic behind that. Because we're in a quagmire right now as a country. And if you think that, the question becomes, how is it going to change?

The relationship, for one thing, between the federal government and the various provinces has to change. That can only really be done constitutionally. And so an avenue to that, maybe it's the only viable avenue to that right now would be a vote in favor of independence by a province. And that triggers, like I said, a round of negotiations. which have to be conducted in great seriousness. And I think would be if, you know, the rest of the country and the federal government is faced with the imminent prospect of what would be destruction of the country.

I think that's a pretty good answer. I'm going to leave it there. But I want to ask, we do a 10 quick questions on substack. So we're just going to pause for a second. And then I got 10 questions. I appreciate you doing this. And me, girl. I don't know if Grock got me right or not.

I was like, I hadn't thought anyone grocking me before. But I appreciate talking about, you have an interesting insight, Chuck. Like, you just do. And so to me, I want to push on that. I want to push you as far as you can give me. And I hope I haven't pushed too hard, but I've enjoyed the conversation. Well, you've hit on most of the points that Grock said you would. Well, I guess Grock's getting it right.

Well, stay with us. We'll go to Substack and we'll ask a couple quick questions of you, sir, and we'll see what you think of that.