Shaun Newman Podcast - #16 - Morg & Merv Mann

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

Morgan & Merv Mann in the studio - Hillmond/Lloydminster boys  - Alumni of the Jr. B Bandits & Jr. A Blazers  - Merv a University of Saskatchewan Huskies alumni  - Morgan an Acadia Axeman alumni  - Combined they appeared in five Allan Cups winning two with the Border Kings - Finally both have been active in coaching local minor hockey and running player development camps

Welcome to the podcast. First off, I want to give a shout out to Harlan Lessig and the Weekly Bean. Once again, they put a little note in there about the podcast. It comes out once a week. It's in Lloydminster Kinnersley Moose Jaw, so stop and check it out, guys. Really appreciate Harlan and his team and the support they've been given the podcast. It's awesome. Awesome to see you.

Really appreciate seeing my name out in about. It's pretty cool. I ask a couple shoutouts. Pat and Dawn Harris, hope you guys are listening to this one. I see on Facebook they wrote that they're enjoying their podcast on their drives. I really appreciate you guys listening to show. Really appreciate the feedback.

David Sizzins was another one. He said he just loves the work. He's really excited about the two guys we got on tonight, so I hope you enjoy this one, Dave. Love it when you guys interact. Love the feedback. If there's somebody you're wanting to get on from the area, just shoot me a note.

If you're looking to interact, I'm on Facebook. There's a group, Sean Newman Podcast, Instagram. Just created a new account, actually. It's Sean Newman Podcast and Twitter. We also have a new account there. It's S. Newman Podcast.

So follow me on there, guys. It's the latest up to date on what's coming next on the podcast. And if there's anything you want to see, any feedback you want to give me, really appreciate hearing from you guys. Tonight is going to be really exciting. We got Morgan Merv Man on, one of them is described as being the father figure of any hockey team.

He plays on one of the leaders, a guy who takes care of his teammates. Not that the other doesn't do that, but the other one's described as Fly by the Seed of Your Pants. I'll let you figure that out as we get this podcast going here. But both of them have played extremely good hockey. Merv was Junior A and Lloyd with the Blazers and then went on to CIS with the U of S Huskies.

And then Morg played Junior B for the Lloyd Minister, Junior B, bandits, and then made his way out to Acadia and played for the Acadia Axeman, and won a national championship with them. And then they both met back up in Lloyd Minster playing for the senior AAA team, the Border Kings, and would go on to win a couple of Allen Cups. So I hope you guys enjoy, strap in, because here we go, without further ado. All right, welcome to the Sean Numa podcast. Tonight I got Morgan Merv with me.

And I've been looking forward to this one. Well, I had Merv lined up. And as soon as I told Morg, I had Merv lined up, he's like, well, no, he might as just do it all together, right? So I got the brothers together now, so this should be entertaining maybe. Merv says Morg's going to do all the talking. So we'll see you about that. Anyways, I'm excited to have you boys in.

So I thought we'd start with, just past Mother's Day. So I thought maybe we'd start with a story about your mom growing up. I know for me, mom will come from a family of five. And so four boys played hockey, and my sister figure skated. And we all were competitive, were successful at the levels we played at. So she pretty much carded us around everywhere. And if I think really far back on it, like I always admired, I'd have playing midget and ban them specifically in the way.

we'd always have early morning practices. And living out on the farm, we'd be getting up at like a quarter to five in the morning. She'd drive us into Lloyd to have hockey practice to then drive us back out to Hillmont to go to school. And never once complained about it, right? And, you know, that in itself is like pretty special, right? So I thought maybe we'd start with Morg and see what you can cook up. Yeah, nice to be here, Tiger. I think what, you know, just thinking spur of the moment here,

Mom always made our own hockey bags for us when we were young. And so sometimes people call it, you know, you're winning the parent lottery a little bit, that the opportunities you get as a young person, some of us are more fortunate than others to have those opportunities. And fortunately for Merv and I, we, our mom and mom, dad and we were we were very fortunate that because of them the opportunities we got and and so dad was the one that would probably got up most mornings and did the driving with us because mom nursed as well as being involved with the ranch at home but the little things

like making our shaps and sewing our hockey bags for us all those little extra things that that mums do or that she did that I'll always remember. Yeah, for sure. More, or Merv? Yeah, Merv here. Yeah, I think for me, the thing that stands out most about

mom is that she's the one that instilled the love of horses for us and goddess ponies when we were young and that's, as a parent now, trying to get the kids to ride. I see how hard it is to match horses to kids and

to give a kid that opportunity and it's something that I'm still doing and enjoying and it, you know, dad was certainly a part of it, but it was mom that really instilled that in us and had that love for it and some we've shared and we still talk about today

horses and analyzing them and training them and so probably that's where I've always felt as close to my mom as anywhere. Ah, cool. Switching subjects. Did either of you guys watch the Raptors game the other night? Mm-hmm.

Love the Raptors. Do you? Yeah. Big basketball fan. Yeah. Or just the Raptors fan? No, but I like the sport of basketball, and I really enjoy the Raptors, I think, as far as basketball goes, there is classy a team in the NBA, and I like what they're about.

Yeah, I really enjoy following them. Well, I was wondering, did you watch the game, Mur? We did, and I got to give my sense. story on it. Ramona was in the other room and talking on the phone and we're not huge fans, the kids and I, but we watch it and just had to be watching this. And as the second and third and fourth bounce off the rim and finally it went and we let out such a scream that Ramona let out a holler from the other room to see what it happened, which reminds me of the story Dad and Frank always told that Jim Redden, Dad and Frank,

were watching the 72 series when Henderson scored. When Henderson scored, yeah. And they let out such a beller that Morgan was a year old and asleep in his crib woke up, Howling, and they couldn't get him back to sleep. So just kind of, it seems like it's a great moment in Canadian sport again. Absolutely. Oh, man, can you imagine you, like, Nair's Little Morg cried,

you're running fools, right? What are you doing? I was wondering, is, What is the best moment in sports you've watched live on television? Because everybody right now is like they're comparing it to Jordan hitting, you know, game winning shots and that kind of thing. Don't get me wrong. I was sitting there watching it last night and I let out a fist pump and a little bit of a shout too.

And I'm not a big NBA fan. Or I don't fall with that close, I should say. I love a game seven. And so with three minutes left, I just had put the kids down to bed and I flick it on. and I'm sitting there watching and I'm like, holy man, this is a game, right? And then Kauai misses the free throw and you're like, what the heck is going on here? That's one of the best players in the world.

And then the shot and just to see how it like bounced on the rim and didn't just, it wasn't like a swish, right? Like just the way it did was theatrical. Yeah. And how he had time to sit down and watch it and watch it. See his facial expression as he's watching too. Absolutely. Yeah, it was pretty special.

I'm wondering, is there another moment? or that you guys have watched through your years where you're like, oh, that one sticks out? I think it's easy. It's Lemieux to Gretzky, back to Lemieux and Top Corner. They all pile into the corner when they beat the Russians out. And Howard Chuck made a pick on the play that helped make the play. And Murphy, there was no chance he was getting the puck between Gretzky and Lemieux.

That one just always stood out. I still get the chills when I see. see that one. And I would say I thought, and I don't remember the specifics exactly, but when the Women's Olympic team came back from two goals down. What was that? Two goals down? They pulled the goalie and the Americans iced the pocket, hit the post.

Yeah. And to come back down, score. And I just, that comeback in that game, remembering, watching, thinking that it's over, there's no way. It was like a bit of a miracle too. And I was thinking in my time, Sidney Crosby in the Golden Goal, right? When he scores against the Americans and, oh man, that was fun watching. Yeah, it was. You're both Euler fans, too, aren't you?

Oh, absolutely. Hanging in there. Well, I think we're all hanging in there. What do you think of Ken Holland coming to town? Yeah, I think it's a good move. I mean, he's got a great track record. and if only he has the freedom to do the job. They seem to be toast so top-heavy that you wonder how much,

there's just so many voices in making decisions there from the periphery it looks like, and I think it's hard for any GM to come in and take control. They talk like he's going to have complete control. That's what they said at the press conference like 12 times. We'll see. I mean, GM's always supposed to have, and I don't think he'd come there without the full control, but hopefully everybody else can step aside and let him do the job now.

Yeah. Well, it's exciting times because, I mean, you get one of the best GMs in the last 20 years anyways. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There's very few that are in the company of Ken Holland. Mm-hmm. It's such a fine line. I mean, I really think it comes down to goaltending.

St. Louis is the greatest example of that to... Bintington. to come from being in last place in their division to where they are now and that's I mean a new coach but goaltending same group of players it's a you know and and the upsets that have happened that the parody's so tight that it's he'll be a good stabilizing influence so too and I think we'll make good moves yeah I'm excited yeah I mean I get it I'm an optimist right anytime they when they brought chai in or sherelli I was like you know what guys want a cup I I think he's willing to make the moves, and now five years down there or four years down the road, you're like, ah, crap, I just let's go back to zero and see if we can start this all over again.

We've got the best thinking player in the world. I mean, it'd be nice to get them back in the playoffs, right? But I want to go back to when you guys were young, because you guys were about two years apart. Yeah, 18 months. 18 months, eh? So when did you guys start, learn to start playing hockey? Was it on the ponds out at the farm? Yeah, I guess I'd say we started skating on the lake.

I recall my first game of hockey, I'd watch Morgan play a little bit, and had skated with him and that on the ice. So I was capable when I started, but I was so shy and so nervous. I just said to mom and dad, I'll just stay home and play on the lake. I had no intentions of, and I see kids have changed now. They've loaded with confidence to go and do things, but in our day we were pretty shy and pretty tend to get started. I started at five in grade one, and I met my best friend growing up in the sandbox in kindergarten on the first day of school, Jason Plondowski.

And he started playing at four, so he'd already been going a year. And that's what he triggered me to, geez, I want to play hockey too. And so that's how I started. When did you guys get so competitive? Or was that from an early age as well? Because I've been on the ice with the two of you. and there's fire still in the eyes to this day. Oh, I think anytime you grow up with a brother,

and close enough in age like that, and even though I was older, Merv was always bigger than I was, so it balanced things out, and so that probably had a lot to do with it. I've always thought I wasn't naturally that way that was learning to keep up to an older brother, and my knock when I was younger,

was being lazy or not engaged in hockey and continued to develop that a little bit. And then Husky hockey really instills that in a person. So I think it continued to get more and more for me. But I don't think I was naturally the most competitive kid when I started. Do you think at a higher level, the higher you go, the higher the competition, is it just teaches you to have that kind of killer instinct because like I know for myself I've played junior A but when I skate with like dub guys or oh HL guys or the guys who've gone to the next level they just have another gear almost and I'm not saying that goes across the board for

all players at the next level but I know that's coaching I know that's like a mindset instilled we had an excellent coach in Dryden and Larry instilled that right from day one I still talked to my old teammates and they talked about one specifically Jordan Chong he went to Scholastica and they were that's Minnesota and their

Division 3 school and but they were nationally ranked in Division 3 they're really really good and he said he had teammates that he played against but under Larry Larry had taught us just like hated he just drilled into us that we're you know we're out we're out there to win

there's no there's no friends on the ice it's like let's go at it and it was like another level he took us to. And Jordan always talked to me about when he'd go and like the first year he's there, he had a hard time hanging around with the guys because he's like, I just, it's almost in the back of my brain. I'm, I'm in a different spot than them or something like that. Like, do you think when you go to like, you talk about the huskies and I sure assume Acadia was the same thing? When you get to that next level, they push you out of your comfort zone into another tier? Or my, would you say it differently than that?

No, absolutely. I really, we talked about parity in players, and I've been watching kids in camp and that. Everybody's skill is close the same or the speed they skate or the way they stick handle. But the ones that move on a level are the ones that are just that much more driven. And so, yeah, the ones that are at a higher level have an extra drive to them. And so when you skate with them or you're around them, you all of a sudden you want to move yourself to that kind of a competitive level as well.

Would you say then it's, it's, uh, there's just some kids that have it ingrained from them then at an early age that are just driven then and don't need to be taught that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think as Merv said, you can learn that and speaking of a coach that was that way, I think under the right circumstances or environment, you certainly can bring that out in a person. But, you know, I've been teaching school for 23 years and coach lots and for sure. I see kids who are just wired that way that just ultra-competitive and just can't get enough and just that's their makeup. When you guys both played your minor hockey and Lloyd then?

Yes. You were still on the farm at the time, yes? Like you've always been there, right? So we were the Lloyd's school district. where we lived and I'm in the same house I grew up in we bought it from mom and dad so that was Lloyd's school district at that time I think about grade 10 it switched but at the time we were born and and raised and entered school we were always the Lloyd district so you drove to Lloyd out all the time then for your minor hockey yeah yeah yeah so did you guys get to play

together growing up then or you're too far apart being 18 months on two occasions uh Merv uh Adam or It was Mighty Mites then, I guess, or Mites where Roy Noble had called you up in just the circumstances of how it worked. I'm not, I don't quite remember, but maybe there was room for somebody to move up. And you did that year. Yeah. And then again, when Merv was in Bantam. Midget. Oh, sorry.

You were in Bantam. And on our midget, midget team, Merv had moved up and we got to play together there too. Yeah, and you'd mention your midget team as well. one of your, your fond memories. Yeah, you know. What was it about your midget team? Because at that,

there wasn't a AAA team at that. It wasn't called, it was AA. Double A, which was our top midget team. And my first year playing there, we, with a half dozen guys that went on from there

to play in the Western Hockey League and just some really, lots of names have got high-profile players in Lloyd at that time that, we were really good on paper and guys that went on to play some pretty good hockey. And the next year, it was a real collection of unique individuals with no real specific names of people of the group, especially comparing from the group of the year before. And Mervid come up as an underager.

And we had a real eclectic group, but we had more. we had more success that year than we had the year before. And it was just a real special year. And an example of when your culture is good and you have a really good group of guys, all, guys or girls, whatever team you're working with. But we got along so well and such a good culture that we had more success than the team the previous year. And so it made it kind of. special. And we did put a player in the NHL or in the NHL.

Corey Cross kind of finishing out his minor hockey that year, getting ready to move off to school. And he tried out junior the year before and it hadn't gone well. So we just decided to play this and then went on to be the amazing story he was when he went first overall in the supplemental draft and had a, I'm going to say, a 10-year career in the NHL. So. Yeah, he's got a cool story. And he was good. I mean, it looked like his, you know, he wasn't going anywhere at that time,

but he was so tall and rangy and a good skater that he was very successful. Sorry, boys. No problem. I think that what you're talking about, an eclectic group or a good group of individuals in the culture, it reminds me of, I forget who said it, but if you're individuals off the ice, you're individuals on the ice, and so many great teams that happens to them, right? They don't gel as a team, and then they don't pull the same direction on the ice, right? Yeah.

And some of the best teams are, I sent out the question to you guys, right? And I try and distinguish what the best team you played on, and that's, like, the best group of guys to play with, and then the most successful, because they usually go hand in hand, right? You play with a team that if you gel, you do good things together, and winning solves a lot of problems. But from time to time, you get a group of guys that can win something, but it wasn't a whole lot of fun.

and then you have a group of guys that was just a lot of fun to play with. And no matter if you won or lost, you push the same direction, and that is fun in itself. I've never won with a group of guys that wasn't a good group. And one of my things in coaching and talking to kids in coaching is winning as a byproduct of being, you know, like you're trying to create that family culture and a good group of people with the character that are all going in the right direction,

in the same direction. And I think that that then byproducts are winning. And sometimes some years you have a really good group of kids your coaching or teams you've been on and you don't win that final game. It doesn't always work out. But I really strongly believe that to have success, you have to be together. Yeah, a healthy dressing room. Yeah.

So important. Yeah. Nothing tougher than losing and infighting and meetings and, I mean, the sympathy I have for the Oilers, because I've been on teams where it's just, you can meet and you can analyze and you can, it just, I mean, there's no easy fix. And boy, those are long, painful years. Doing something you love to do, but it's a long, painful year. And when it all goes right, there is no better.

It's great. It's fun. But that doesn't come along every year. No. Well, I wish that came along every year. Yeah. Right. Well, if it was easy, it wouldn't be that important.

It's enjoyable. That's right. That's right. Yeah, just sticking with your midget for a second here. So Merv, you played up a year then? Yeah. There was only two years of midget then, so it's set up the way it is now. Now, so as a 15-year-old, you went up.

Yeah. And they let me try out, and then there wasn't enough spots, so I got sent back down to Bantam. And then an unfortunate incident, Jody Pollard broke his neck and a hit in Lloyd. And so that left an opening on the midgets. And so his misfortune allowed me to come up and spend the last year playing minor hockey with Morgan. And his group of friends were my group, too, was Trevor Bygroves and Dionne Pollard's and Warren Noble. Those were all the guys I hung out with, so it was a fantastic year. What was it like being a young kid getting pulled up onto a group like that?

Like, was their size difference, do you remember anything like that? Or you were just a big kid and it wasn't, I can see Morgan's smiling over there? My bragging point is I out bench pressed them all that year. The wind up, we were doing that. So I was a big boy young and that was no issue. and like I said, I'd hung out with these guys, so it was where I wanted to be. These were my friends and to have that year.

So it was a special one. So what age now do you guys start playing junior? Do you wait until you graduated out before you play with the band? Yeah, out of midget. Yeah. And Merv actually had some games in at 14. With the band? B.W.

Reagan generals. Generals. Yeah, yeah. And it was rough and tumble and nerve-wracking. I remember the one game we had. We only had like 12 skaters for that one, and two of us were young call-ups. And Wade Enger was our trainer way back in those days.

And they kept teasing him that he had to go to the drunk tank and get three of our players out, so we'd have enough to play. I was pretty wide-eyed and nervous. Oh, another one was, we were in Vermillion. And a couple old fellas sat right by the penalty box, and they'd spend the whole day chirping at me for wearing a face mask.

You, chicken, and quite the language they had. And I was so nervous and shy. And they just rode me the whole game about wearing a face mask in those days. And in those days, guys weren't even wearing visors. It was bare face. No visors in Junior B. No, yeah. Was there visors in Junior A?

As long as I was ever involved, yeah. And I think there was when I, but the Junior B. Run loose of the rules in those days. So when you started playing Junior B, morgue were you wearing no visor? No I didn't wear a visor. Really? Yeah. Throwback. Yeah. You're dating yourself. That's right. Yeah. I haven't even figured out the years, but it was that'd be an 89 90 I guess. And about those visors I remember it was medicine hat wasn't it that come up to play you guys to go to provincials? Mm-hmm. And they were a full-faced mass team.

And I think five of these guys, I'm thinking it was five, got sent to the hospital, with bad cuts to the faces. Like, they didn't have the respect having played in a league with mass. And these guys, I mean, it just wasn't the right thing to do anymore. You need to have a visor on. Eyes are too precious.

And it was such a rough league at that time, too. Like, I'm not sure if there were a game went by without a fight or a line brawl or a bench brawl. And so it was rough. The game has really changed. What do you guys think on the hitting aspect of it? I think I've had this conversation maybe with both you in a dressing room or two, but what do you think of them removing hitting from younger group?

Well, I think it's now you've got to be bad. I'm going to get into hitting, don't you? It is. It is, yeah. I haven't coached that level. I've watched it, and I don't think it's working. I see 80-pound kids moving up to play against. 220 pound kids and

it's just not working and like that's more the double A Bantam boys I skated with this year a couple times and I think they had six kids out at that time with shoulder injuries and knee injuries

so I never would have said it I'm adamant believer that hockey was about body contact and I still believe that but maybe body checking is going to go out and it'll be more of the female style of game where it's lots of aggression, lots of contact, but the big heavy hits are going to go because it's just so many injuries now.

Yeah, I certainly agree with what we see in Bantam, but, you know, the stats when it was in Pee-wee, all of a sudden when their numbers just kept declining and declining as far as hockey Canada numbers of kids playing hockey in Peewee, there was such a decline. that when they took the hitting out, the numbers jumped back up like 35%. It was like quite a difference. And so I used to really strongly believe that hitting shouldn't start until kids figure out how to skate because you're so vulnerable at the younger ages that if you are able to skate, then you're a pretty easy target for those kids

that haven't learned that skill yet. but I think a version of some sort of body contact right from when you begin, just to learn body awareness and positioning that maybe needs to be in right from the beginning just to get that sense of, it's not such a drastic change then. Do you think hitting is going to be out of the game? Yeah, checking might. Contact never will, but the actual body check. your thoughts tiger you're

grilling us here but well i i don't know i was doing a little bit of research into it i was doing a little bit of research into like the history of hockey and lloyd and i'd read a thing um from 1936 that uh it said hockey continued to become more popular than ever adding to its popularity were some changes to the game and in 1936 they permitted body checking anywhere on the ice so it's been around for a long time yeah um But I don't know, I grew up with hitting. So for me, I don't know how, I just, I don't know how else the game can be played. I'm all for taking out the head shots, the dirty plays, the checking from behind.

There's a lot of bad plays that come with hitting that, that, but there's a lot of good aspects of hitting that I like too, right? You guys watch me a lot. I love a good hip check. I don't think there's anything dirty or malicious about it. The guy comes down and tries to dipsy do you. If you can't touch them anymore, then the game is fundamentally changed. And it already has been fundamentally changed. They've made a lot of different rule changes since I played my competitive hockey or my junior days, right?

And you guys are before that, right, the amount of changes they've made. The only thing I haven't done is I haven't coached like you guys. And so I don't, honestly, I don't know the younger years if I'm sitting there watching, do I go, oh yeah they need to remove body checking right like i watch my son coming up and i go like he's gonna like body check right he's just he's a kid that likes rough and tumble yeah and not every kid is built like that no and so i i don't know you talk about numbers that makes a lot of sense to me right like if you take away the physical aspect of pocky like that at the younger age i can see a lot of kids wanting to stay in it but if you're introducing it again in banam

or in midget or whatever that's still going to to knock off a bunch of kids because they're going to come in and not know what the heck's going on. I think back to when I grew up, and Adam, I got called up to peewee house, which peewee house is, you know, now you watch it. But at the time, I was over the moon. I got called up peewee house. And my first shift, I got absolutely clobbered and went, oh, don't do that, right? And that was the start of it in your day and mine. That was where I started. And then Adam, in the practices, they let you scrum. That's what I'm calling it. Along the boards, they let you kind of have a little bit of contact, nothing too crazy. And before that

Adam there was nothing. And now for not to come in until Bannam, I don't know, that's why I come to you guys and grill you two, because you both are well-respected coaches in the area. You get to see it on a daily basis pretty much in the wintertime. So if you tell me that's the way it's going and that's a good thing, then I trust your opinion. Oh, I mean, I really, at especially the high level hate to see it go. But it's hard to even throw a hit now without on somebody coming down on you, lean the head. So, I mean, their head is going to be the first point of contact. So even allowing it, it's a struggle to be able to do it properly.

So I just think they're in a concussion lawsuit right now. I just, everything that's ahead is going to be tough. Yeah. No, that's fair enough. It's a tough, it's not a black and white answer for the most part, right? Like, it's pretty delicate issue right now. Mm-hmm. And it's, you know, it still has a lot to do with, I think, as a coach and the refs

and the people managing the game, that if you're dealing with people who are respectful of the safety of the kids they're coaching, you know, at whatever level you start body checking, that makes such a difference, too. and I think for the most part I was coaching Bantam this year and it was for the most part a really good experience in that regard of people

the hitting in that being reasonable that it wasn't excessive or to go out and hurt and but a lot of that onus comes on the coach on the coach and unfortunately there's the odd one there still is the odd guy it seems to be less and less yeah yeah I think

they're weeding them out but it's frustrating when when you're sending your kids out against somebody that's asking his kids to hurt you and probably the guy never had any guts when he played but willing to ask these kids to go and do that sort of thing so I find that about this probably the most frustrating thing of coaching is when you're seeing your kids taking a beating out there and there's nothing you can do about it you know what you'd like to do but it just can't happen I was talking to Corey Dallon earlier today, and we got talking about hockey year-round now. That's a very big thing, right?

Like ice is in year-round, kids play spring hockey, different sporting camps all, they're one sport athlete now. I was wondering your guys' thoughts on that. Are you big proponents or big pushers of that? Or are you where hockey is? what is it seven months of the year and then once we're done that we're going to try something different for a little bit or what's your guys' thoughts on getting a break from it because my experience if I think about it

I love playing ball growing up until I hit I think it was like Bannum and then I just got tired and I only and I wanted to summer off almost but I watch these kids now and they're like machines and I don't know if I always hear the burnout argument that they burn out when they get to 18 or whatever. I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't know.

I thought I'd throw that at you guys. Oh, I'm a big proponent of trying to develop an athlete, play as many different sports and activities as you can. And when it comes that time, and that's probably to me, I would think after kids go through puberty and at that point, that you can really get serious about a specific sport. I do acknowledge that to play hockey now at the highest level, you do have to go year round.

And if you have a son or daughter that's that really passionate about it and they just can't get on the ice enough for really wanting to go, then I don't think that there's necessarily, you know, that's not a problem. But when you lose that interest or it's not that much fun or it's a bit of a job to go to the rink, then I just don't see what the point is because unless you have that fire, it just doesn't work out in the end. I remember reading an article about Michael Jordan and this basketball player from France

got it won a trip to come over to New York and meet him and play in the top college game and had a chance to interview Michael Jordan and said, you know, just how did you do it? All the, you know, the work you put in and the time and and how dedicated you were. And he said, the key is you have to love it. It can't be work. And so if you love something that much, and you're right,

the skill of hockey players today is at a level. It's unbelievable. And you just have to, it is, you have to go year round if you do want to make that, make it now. Yeah.

And I, but I think if you, I still think that you want to do other sports and activities to develop yourself as an athlete. I mean, maybe Murphy will speak on the Sutter article, but I think that's still important, but that's the way it's gone. And that's, I mean, every study you read will say that. You've got to do other sports and to train your mind and your thought process. But even we talk, though, hockey Canada.

events, they're all in the summer. So, I mean, one time they're telling you, yeah, you've got to get out and do other things. And then they'll also point out at World Junior Camp, 95% of these guys can't throw baseball. Don't know the rules. So to make it to the elite level, there

certainly is a point where you've got to go for it, I feel. And I fought it a long time, and I think it's, you know, as they hit 15 years old or something, that's when you buy in and go. for it before that the minute that last game ends I'd like to see everybody go a different direction and do something different but you get looking over at your

buddy's kid and he's getting better because he's doing extra training it's hard and and so I think that's a big thing it's competition amongst parents and amongst kids themselves to not let their buddy get ahead of them and so they feel like they got to keep training and for the one or two that make it out of it, great. There are lots that are lost long the way where it becomes a chore. They start to lose a little ground

and they realize this is all I've done for 10 years as follow hockey year round and start to really hate it. And I still like putting on the skates and I know I couldn't have put in the time that a lot of these kids do now. Yeah, what do you guys do?

What did you do back then for training in the summer? Because you go on a place. Junior A and Junior B. Do you remember what you used to do? Yeah, I've got to take this one. Because this one bothers me still. I would run all summer long and worked and running was my big thing.

I mean, it was always cardio. And Morg would come out the last week and he'd beat me and I was like, God sakes. Not fair, right? Different body types. And he could just come out and he hadn't trained. He was just natural. He'd come back in shape. But for me, if I hadn't worked at it, I wasn't going anywhere.

Here's one for you, Merv, that'll make you feel better about body types. So in 2006, I bike with my brother and Loria, a girl that I'd met actually like a day before the trip. We bike across Canada, right? So for 69 days, I come back in and my legs are like freaking nothing but muscle. And as one of the things in our camp, we had to run like 3.3 miles, so 5K. And I'm in like fantastic shape. I still couldn't win that, and I ended up getting like 15th because I tried so hard to lead to like, I'm winning this thing. Like, I just came across country.

And there was guys that were just running body types, and they beat me. And they were laughing at me. And I was just so mad, right? No matter how hard I tried it running, I get that the body type thing. And a different muscle group. And, you know, it's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I can, I sucked at it. Yeah, that's good. So let's go down your junior B road here for a second there, Mark. So you go from midget then, you finish your midget career, and then you go into playing Junior B for three years? Two years. Two years? Yeah, I left a year of eligibility of junior to go to school.

And what was the, when I had Dwayne in here, he had like Western Championship program, and like the Junior Bs back then were extremely. extremely good. Was that the years you played or around the time? Yeah, so my first year, um, it went from the BW rig generals to the, to the bandits and it was just, it became a whole new team and, and organization and Roy Noble, Tom Petrie, uh, Ian Belier, were three of the big people behind starting the bandits and, um, they changed the culture of the team and the expectations of what it meant to play there and, and more of, uh,

You know, in some ways, by the second year, it was a little bit like the culture of a junior A team when Brent Dallin and John Saunders came on with the expectations of the players and the commitment that you had to make. And so, and the run that happened from there in our second year, we went right to the Western Canadian finals. And so had won the Alberta Provincials and then Western Canada. And then afterwards, they won it two or three times. Yeah, Bart Redden and Warren Noble. Had one, yeah, and maybe when they hosted here too. But just I've had a great run as an organization.

Yeah. What were you guys on? Like, were you still practicing twice a week then? Yeah. And was it the same league they're in now? Like, are we talking Vermillion? Yeah, exact same league. Exactly same league.

Do you know how many teams back then they had? Like, was it bigger than it is now? Oh, I would think... Mostly the same team. Yeah. Like Coal Lake wasn't in it. No Coal Lake. Wayne Rate was always tough to handle.

Yeah. Was it a... I grew up watching the... When I was coming up and watching the bandits, it was a tough league. There was a lot of fighting in that. It was a rough league, yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes in the crowd, I remember watching the game and I was sitting there by one of his teammates that was injured or kicked out, and several fans from Satellake got. him down and worked him over. So it was certainly Western. Did you play, were the bandits affiliated with the Blazers at the time? Blazers? Lanzers. Blazers. Blazers. Yeah. Yeah, and played some games up and some. Yeah. And then you go from Junior B, I was saying this off air, so you go from Junior B to

playing for Acadia. Like, how does that, like, we were talking about all the names, and you can say, them all and where they went and the accolades they got. And for, like, I mean, it speaks to the player you must have been and still are, for that matter, right, when you get to watch it, right? But like, to go from a junior B program to Acadia who eventually wins the national championship, that's a big jump. Yeah, and it was, and much bigger than I realized it was going into it. I was very fortunate to get the opportunity.

my coach at the time, John Saunders, had played out in Acadia and a couple games with the Maple Leafs and had an excellent career himself. He thought I could play there, and I think the team in the league had developed in the Atlantic side of university hockey. They started to, all the teams attract players

from the OHL and the Western League, and so it was maybe more than he remembered it was, but I kind of believe that everybody gets an opportunity in life, and it's what you make of it, and that was my break at that time to get a chance to go to school and play on that team, and it worked out well because there was certainly some real high-end hockey players there that were above my ability.

I was talking with one of those guys today, Mr. Colin Greggar, And he said you were a fish out of water when you first walked on campus, a little ranch boy on the campus, didn't know. He said you stuck out like a sore thumb with your wranglers on. What was it like going all the way across Canada like that? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I suppose he's right. I was 19, so, you know, old enough, and it's when people move on and do their own thing.

but with growing up on the farmer and, you know, not really venturing out too far from the area to move all the way out east. And there's no going home on the weekends. And I hadn't really even going through high school, even considered much thought of going to university. So initially it, and a lot of these guys that were, I mean, on the team, they were guys that knew each other from playing major junior together and all connected. and so it was a big step and one that it tests a person,

you know, it certainly was a, felt some homesickness and a challenge, but with it, by Christmas, I, you know, I'd fallen in love with the team and the university and the guys, and it just proved to be kind of a game changer for me. I heard your first goal you scored for him was quite some. Yeah. How does he tell it? Well, he says you're dumping the puck in off the stanch and got run over on your ass. His memory is a little different than mine.

I did, it was a clear shot on NetTiger, but in the process of shooting, I did get hit. And by the time I realized it was in, there was a pretty good celebration going on because the guys were pleased to see me get one. I heard the bench cleared. And so, yeah, it was kind of a version, as he recalls it, but somewhere in the middle. He also did say the version changes about 20 times. Every time it gets told, it gets told a little different. Right, yeah, that's what happens.

A couple of other things he brought up was something about a 10-speed bike and rip-off Rick. Rip-off Rick. The chain come off on it. Oh, yeah. That's a good story. So, Acadia is a small campus in all three years I was there to get my arts degree. I never had a vehicle, so my first year just walked everywhere, and my second year I thought I should get myself a bike.

And rip-off Rick comes from, there's a fellow name Rick that runs the market. And he, the current head coach of Acadia right now, did you happen to see they made the national news last year for the bench clearing brawl they had with St. of X? No, I didn't know. With players suspended. Anyway, Darren Burns. is a fellow I played with.

Yeah. During those years, and now he's been the long-time serving coach of Acadia, but we called him rip-off, Rick, or I did, because he sold me the bike, and I thought he, I'd give him a hard time that he took me on the deal. But anyway, I used to bike to practice and bike everywhere and grow, on the sand roads at home or the gravel roads, there's not much of an opportunity to bike in the country, as you know,

and so biking in the city or in a town is a bit of a new experience for me too so I bike on the sidewalks are probably not quite where I'm supposed to be all the rules of biking but on the occasion he's talking about I turned the corner to to bike up to the rank and notice the football a carload of football players from the team were behind me so I thought I'd really dig in to get ahead of them and not let that pass me whatever the mindset was, but the chain went on me and I flew off the bike and had to gather that up and run to the rink with them behind me to hearing the cat calls. To spurry on.

Yeah, that's right. One other thing I liked, Hugh, Call was talking about was all the different nicknames they gave you. He used to call you Tex and Wrangler, the one that I really like. Because I've never heard this one for me, but it makes sense, his little fella. And they said it used to just drive you. nuts. Yeah, I didn't think it was too bad.

Well, it didn't get you fired up. No. Yeah, there was, yeah, he, Greg Zee, I think him himself had a few nicknames. How about the alumni trip you went on? Just last year you went back for 25 years after winning a championship. Actually, we should maybe talk about the championship. Because you go twice to, twice you get close to the national, or the first year you almost win it in the second year you win it, right?

Yeah, all three years we went to, and at that time, it was just four teams from each of the conferences go to the national finals, and it was always in Toronto at that time. Yeah, Maple Leaf Gardens. And all three years there we went. It was a pretty special team, like our records were 26 and 1. For the listeners, give some of the names you were talking off air and who they were. Well, oh, yeah, where to begin? Well, for example, Kevin Knaw, who's from Emmetton, he won two Memorial Cups,

and Norm Batherson maybe as good a player as I played with his son. Drake Batherson, who's now with Ottawa and starred with the World Junior team last year. It was just a real talented team, and so that year that we won, we'd beat U of A in the semifinal. 7-3 or 7-4 and then went on to beat U of T-12-1 in the final. Yeah, it was just a very talented team. Yeah, and lucky to be there. Well, I shouldn't give calling me, put you in a tough spot with Colin.

He did say a lot of good things about you too, right? Like, he did say you were one of the gel guys of the team. Everybody, the reason they ran out on the ice and your first goal is because they were all that pump for you, right? Like everybody was, well, you said you were gel part of the team. You helped gel the team together. Everybody wanted more, go, and wanted the best, and had a great time with Morgan. He did say you're a little bit of a prankster, although I've heard that several times from every guy I talked to who played with you. So I think that carried on from probably your junior days all the way through to the Border Kings and even now, for that matter.

But, I mean, to win a national championship in Maple Leaf Gardens, let's talk about playing. playing a maple leaf gardens how was that like how was that rank well yeah i mean the history and a pretty special arena yeah in our rank there was a or in our dressing room there's a telephone in the rank and that seemed like a real novelty to me that in itself and i remember coming in and phoning uh merr when as soon as we came in and one and yeah it's a special experience was there uh like did when i went to the dudley hewitt they brought in like special guests to talk and stuff. I assume in a tournament like that, did they have like a banquet and everything where you got to kind of, I don't know, hang around as a team and then they bring in a speaker or anything

like that? Well, you have your awards. I mean, there's the opening banquet, I guess, where you're all Canadians are announced and coach of the year and player of the year and that sort of thing. And there would have been a guest speaker, Sean, but I just, I can't recall who that was, but a nice evening and a meal and, you know, a real nice event. What was the party like after you guys won that? It was pretty good. Did you guys, you guys would have flown there, I assume? Yeah.

So did you fly, did you spend the night in Toronto? Spent the night in Toronto and back home the next day. Yeah. A little red-eyed, I would assume. Yeah, so, yeah, long time ago, but it was lots of fun. And Acadia is a small enough town, sort of like what the Prince Albert were calling, son, is just won a, with the PA Raiders just won the Western League Championship and how PA are those smaller towns embrace their team.

Oh, yeah. And the experience they're having there, it was similar for us because it was a, the, the town doubled when university was in session. There's about 3,500 population of Wolfville, and it doubled to when university was in. So small town experience, and when you're winning, people seem to get behind any team, And so we were as a sellout every game. And it really, you know, it was a great support back home too after winning. What would be a sellout?

How many people, like how big was your ring? It was a brand new rank, Olympic-sized ice. So that was, you know, a cool feature. And certainly a team built for that size of rank with speed. And it's seeded 2,500 people. How was that? playing in front of 2,500? You know, special, yeah. Yeah, because I mean, I could be wrong. I mean, there's probably a few times under the Kings where you guys got that many, probably the Allen Cups,

for instance, that kind of thing, but I would assume that you guys didn't get 2,500 people every night. No, I mean, most nights, it was 100 people. That's right. But we did play provincial games and Allen Cup games where the old Civic Center was jammed. And it was before renovation, so I think It was like $2,700 in there. Yeah, those are special moments. Well, this year we went in playoffs. We got to play in Meta Lake. In Metal Lake, I don't know how many people in there.

Let's call it 1,000 or $750, but it felt like $5,000, right? Like, when you play in front of 200 people or 100 people or 50 people or you get a slow clap when you come on the ice, right, to go and do something like that and play a good hockey team on top of it, right? Like, that's a lot of fun. And those days are few and far between when you're playing Sask Elton now, right? You have to cherish them. Yeah, absolutely.

No matter the capacity of the building, if it's filled with people and, you know, the hillmond arena, when the rink's full in it, there's not a lot of seating there, but when it's full, you feel it, and the environment is just intoxicated. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. especially those rinks where you're close to the to the play or to the fans that are close to the ice surface it sure livens everything up like sass place is a dead rink it really takes a crowd there to be

exciting so is that well let's flip to you merv so you go from playing as a 15 year old midget so what happens after 15 do you stay playing midgett uh no that was the only year Midget to end up making the Blazers that year. I had a good camp with the blades and then thought I was coming back to Midget and Willard Condrell called me several days after his home and said, aren't you coming out to try out junior A? And so went and tried out there and I think what kind of made it for me is we went up to preseason and for McMurray and a big fella started acting up and calling our bench on and I was green. I didn't even occur to me that he was kind of coming after me and we dropped the puck and he run at me and I happened to get the better of them.

And I kind of think that showed I was capable of playing with the older boys and so made the team after that. When you say you got the better of them, do you mean you dropped the mitts or you laid them out? No, we fought. Yeah. And I mean, that was my first junior fight, I guess, and nervous, but it all happened quick and it went okay. So it kind of showed you were able to handle yourself and play. And in those days, it was a big part of it. I mean, if you were not capable of handling yourself like that, you'd need another year or two before you could play in the league. Oh, God. First fight.

Morg, did you ever have a first fight back in junior and all? Playing in the bandits you must have. Oh, yeah, yeah. I guess probably Bakerville was my first one, I think. Yeah. Is that Gable House and you got a concussion? We fought three times, and the concussion came in the blazer camp. He fell on you one time.

Yeah, at the camp in Lloyd and spent the rest of the night throwing out. Just leave that one alone. That's all right. One of my fights in junior, I got my nose turned sideways by a guy. He was my size. I thought I was in, all right, I got this guy, right? My size, I've been fighting a bunch of bigger guys. Well, that doesn't say much.

Most guys are bigger, but I've been fighting. a bunch of guys who were over six feet and that gets old real quick. I fought this guy who was five, nine, so a little taller of me, and I lined up and I was ready to go. I hit him with like two good ones and then he switched and he was a southpaw. And after that I couldn't, I just, my brain wouldn't compute and he must have smacked me with about four good ones and down I went. Fighting is, I mean, I was talking with Shanker when he was on, fighting, some guys just

have a real knack for it and they find it out real quick that they can handle it. And some, I was never great at it. I was never opposed to it, but at the same time, if I had the choice, there's no point in me going because I wasn't a great fighter by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah. So you mentioned there, Merv, you said blades. Does that mean you went and tried up for the Saskatoon Blades? Yeah, yeah.

That year I wasn't listed with anybody. Those were the days where you just put on a list, and I wasn't listed with anyone, and that was kind of always a spot I wanted to go. I knew I wasn't making it as a 16-year-old. old. Richard Matfichuk was a given that year and another big guy, Mark Rader. So knew that those were the two 16-year-old defensemen that were going to get the look. But it was good development. I'd also been fortunate enough to go to Alberta development camp that summer. And so it was a week in Calgary with the likes of Dave King and Gord Galley.

And yeah, I can't even name all that. Bob Loutkes was coached in Lathbridge. So all those guys, spending a full week with you, and I'd never been any part of anything like that. But that was huge in my development, and I certainly didn't make Team Pacific. It was nowhere near the top three. That was Mapfichuk and Brent Belladona, Darcy Rank of Jason Smith didn't make that team either. But it was certainly outstanding for one's development, for sure. Jason Smith, geez, there's a name I recognize. He had a heck of a career.

And battled, just like Matt Fichuk, too, those guys. Who did Macfichick play for? Minnesota and then Dallas. And then Dallas. One in Dallas. That's right. Yeah, I do remember that. Fort Saskatchewan.

He lived in Lloyd at that time, too. He lived in Lloyd-Boyd boy then? So was he a Lloyd boy then? Building the Upgrader. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

Oh, that's cool. So how was your first year then for the Blazers? Oh, great. Yeah. Bob DeShamps was our coach to start with. He'd coached the year before. But I don't really know what, he didn't get let go. He just had had enough.

So Wayne Prestage took over. He was an assistant coach. And Cal MacDonald was a former player and took over. We had a really good run. We ended up taking out the number one team in the North, Fort Saskatchewan. Of that series, we won in double overtime game seven. Three of our wins were in double over. overtime, the other one Jim Bourne scored with like two seconds left in the clock.

So it was as amazing a series you ever could be involved in. And then we lost game seven of the north to Shrewd Park 2-0-0 in front of 2,700 in the Civic Center. It was a low, but it was quite a year and an amazing experience. There's a name that got set on the podcast a while ago was Jim Bourne. Yeah. And being an exceptional hockey player. Yeah. And was he?

Who's, was that parallax? No, that was Bucky. No, when you asked about best players we ever played with, Jim was maybe not as skilled as some, but he was as responsible. He was always presented to you with a stick on the ice and eye contact ready for an option. He was just always there.

He was one of the few centermen that you always knew where he'd be. He was always covering and a good talent offensively too. But he just thought the game really well. An exceptional mind for sports, like playing pool or golf, gym just could figure it out. Yeah. So how many years do you play for the Blazers then? I played three. You played three.

Yeah. And so you went and tried out for the Blades one year. Then you come back, you play Blazers. So the next year, do you go back to the Blades? Well, that, no, that first year I had with the Blazers was pretty good year. So I got listed with Tri-City that year. My member was still a kid, so how excited I was. I got, for my birthday, got sent up a box of jerseys and everything,

and Morgan had picked it up, and he already had his new T-shirt on the deal. And so I was set to finish the year out with them. As soon as our season was ended, the thing. They had to try a city? Yeah, to finish the season with them, and they end up losing out the same night we lost out by going on those two rounds, which was, it was fine. It just, it changes your time.

path in life. Yeah, absolutely. You don't know where that would have taken you. So I went to camp and Bill LaForge was the coach. And so if you're maybe too young to remember that name, but that was, well, an example, he got to find and remove from that team because he had them all sticking their screws out of their helmet. So when you fought, you'd cut your hands on their helmet.

And that was the sort of things that Bill had pulled. end up, I didn't make out well with him, got released, and so I got several invites to several camps, but Saskatoon was where I wanted to go, so I replied to them, I'd come and everywhere else know. So two days before they had to camp, Brandon listed me and got me to come there. And so then I, yeah, I went down there and tried out and stuck to start with anyway. and the rest of the story is I was just so bloody homesick that I hung in there for I think about four days finally moved out of the hotel I was living with Ted Flurry Thurne's brother and moved out of the hotel and got in with my billets and got there and I just I don't want to do this I want to go home so

called up Kelly McGrinnon and said I can't do her I'd had a meeting with them the day before and said I couldn't. He talked me into hanging in for one game, which would have been against Ken Stannford and Moose Jaw. Maybe a good one to miss. And so he said, yeah, I'll have somebody meet you at the rink and get your gear and felt better the instant I got my truck and started for home. Yeah. Again, it just, life's different paths. So you don't know what would have been if you'd have done something different. My first year in, when I went out and tried in, well, I had two, I get the, one, wanting to get home. When I was, when I would have been 14 or 15, first year, I went and tried out in Strathcona. And I wanted to make the team. Don't get me wrong. I'm a competitor, but I was

happy to come home. Yeah. And then when I was 17, my last year of high school, I went and tried out in La Roche and I stuck there a month. And a month of being away from family and friends and them talking about you starting a new high school and everything started to weigh in my mind. And I remember it was tougher and tougher to go to the rink. And that was Larry, that was a guy I ended up playing for him, him being my favorite coach for to play for. When I had him on the podcast, we talked a little bit about it. I don't know if he must have known, right? Like a coach has that intuition.

I'm sure you two can agree or talk to that, right? when you can see a player going maybe through the motions somewhat, but when he let me go and talk to me about, you know, you come back next year when you're ready, and I'm sure it was something along the lines of when you're ready. I think he knew I was ready to go home. And when I went home and got back into high school and everything felt comfortable, I admire the kids that can walk away from,

or be 14 like Dwayne Perlet, who was on here a couple weeks ago, or a crook shank at 15, and they move away from home and start playing competitive hockey. I know that's a lot of kids of dreams, but to actually go out and do it is a tough thing to do. Yeah, real tough. Fully agreed. So you go from Junior A,

then you start playing, you get picked up by the Huskies? Yeah, I'd had two years of junior eligibility left, but my group of buddies, Dallas Ferguson was headed for Alaska, and Terry Lorenz was getting a scholarship. just in some of the 20-year-old guys. And I just three years, and I thought if I'm ever going to get an education,

I better go now if I played another two years of junior. I'm sure I would be just headed straight for the farm. So Larry Sauer, I guess, was kind of my original connection to get to U of S. They had an intern coach at the time, Bill Seymour. So I went in as a real unknown coming from the Alberta League, 18-year-old still. Brent McEwen had taken over. It'd come back from his hiatus and taken back over.

So nine defensemen in camp, but it was fortunate enough, or nine they kept. There was nine of us. Fortunate enough to be one of them. And my first half, I think I played one game out of 12. So not a great start, but I found my way in and really enjoyed my experience there. And thank you mark on your paper that,

you're the youngest captain in U of S history? Yeah, and that was an honor for me. My third year, so I was 21 then I guess, and that's when most kids start coming to U.S. Everybody finishes their 20-year-old year out and then comes there. But it was already my third year, so. That's pretty cool, though, right? Yeah, yeah.

Well, lots of history in that program. Absolutely. That's a program to go play for. I mean, how did you guys, like, do in your seasons there? Were you ever... You know, like my first year, we were ranked number one in the country ahead of Acadia at one point. But then we run up against U of A in the finals. Was more playing for Acadia?

Yeah, yeah. Were you texting each other? Well, we were, I mean, that would have been pretty cool to meet. To meet there. Yeah. Yeah. It was, and, I mean, not to the same degree. but Corey Cross was playing with U of A at the time.

Oh, wow. Yeah, so two of the three years we would meet up with U of A, and so that was fun for us. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I guess you weren't texting each other because that wasn't available at the time, right? Yeah. We sent the VHS tapes of our series against U of A out to his coaches.

Oh, really? That goes back to those days. Yeah. Man, kids don't even know what a VHS. No. Okay, we're going to take a two-minute and 56-second break because I want to watch the end of the Carolina game. I can see it going on.

It's 2-1 right now, so when we come back on, we'll have the update of who won. Perfect, perfect. Okay. So we're back, folks. Carolina didn't pull it out. I thought Don Cherry told me there was no way Boston was winning that game. He thought Carolina was pumped up and they were going to win it.

So it didn't look like. they couldn't get the puck in the end to even have a shot at the last minute. Maybe wearing out a little bit. Yeah, you think so? Well, they sure play, I mean, they're a real pressure team, and they've been successful thus far with that kind of a game, but it looks to me like maybe it's they're wearing out. Yeah, well, and they're coming up against a very good Boston team.

We were just talking about it, right? Like, they're a well-rounded team. They got guys who've won it before. They got a lot of youth coming up very, talented youth. Yeah, a nice balance. As much as I dislike Marchand from time to time, he still is a guy who can put the puck in the net, not mentioned Pastornak, right?

Like, they got some guys who can really go. Every team would probably want them. Absolutely, right? Yeah, yeah. Speaking of guys you could really go, let's go back to your U of S here, Merv. You were talking, you were telling me that you guys went over to Sweden and one other country. In Norway. So, yeah, I think that was 95 because Olympics and Lillehammer had ended the year before.

So a lot of our residents was through Hammer and Lillahammer was staying in Olympic Village, former Olympic Village. And the rank we played in over there was where they featured the Olympics and was an underground rank. It was really built in the side of a mountain. Yeah, quite an experience too. So when you went over to these countries, like, were you playing just exhibition games, or were you playing national teams? Who were you playing while you're over there? Right.

We played elite division, which was too good for us. So, like Glenn Gulletson had been gone over there that summer and was playing in the elite division, and we played them, and I think we were like a 5-0 loser. They were a little too much for us. Then we played some Division 1 in Sweden, we were close to them, and then when we went to Norway, we played Division 1 there, and we were right with them. But that was seven games and 14 days off the start of our season.

So by the end of that, we'd had her. And we were trying to experience everything while we're there too. Yeah, busy, busy days. Yeah. Our former coach, Brent McEwen, had moved over there to coach. He'd taken Gulletson with him, so that's how we got this trip lined up. And, yeah, it was a heck of an experience for us. No kidding.

You got to experience the European fan then, too. Yeah. Do you have any memorable? Well, lots of little things that stood out. One was like their crowds never quit singing the whole time. It was their exhibition as well, so they were dressing five lines. Four would play and one would take their skates off and go outside and play soccer for that period. And then they'd roll another one in.

I thought it was neat. Yeah, see, lots of different stuff. hit the bar in Oslo when we were finishing up and and I remember buying a round of beer there and it was like 800 bucks or something like that and it's like ooh that's the last time I'm doing that one quite an experience in itself the yearling market wasn't quite as hot then either tiger no hard up school kids and we were trying to afford to have beer did uh that I think it's a new thing. They didn't have the gold helmets back then, did they? No, not to...

You know what I'm talking about, boys? Yeah, top scorer, right? Yeah, yeah, so when I was over there, they had the gold helmet for the top score. It was quite a thing to watch. Oh, yeah. And I'd be like, well, that's a unique idea, at least, right? But I was talking about it was Shanker, right? Kirk Shank, I was like, well, he was saying, he's like, as a top scorer, the last thing you want is a big target in your head,

and that gold helmet, let me tell you, it sticks out. It would. Yeah, but it's cool as a fan, right? You get to, oh, there he is. Yeah, right there doesn't disappear for you. I remember back in our day, they try and switch numbers on the top score, maybe wear a different jersey, the odd game, just to try and mess somebody up,

and then you go to Europe, and they're sticking a gold helmet on him. That's a different deal there. How the heck would that work? You didn't have name bars on your jerseys. Yeah, and I forget, I think it was old, there's somebody that always played some mind games like that, and they'd let on the jersey had been ripped or something like that, and you'd come out in their top score to have a different jersey.

And I don't think it ever had any effect, but still had you thinking about it, I guess. Sneaky. All the little game within the games when it comes to hockey and playoff specifically, when the games matter the most, you pull out all the tricks. Exactly. Speaking of which, what's the best trick you guys have pulled out of your books and your coaching careers then? I know we've practiced the old... Team Canada face off on your own end,

have the winger go in the box. Go in the box and pop out the other end? I've never had it work. Never had it work? It did once with the Border Kings and Kent Stannfork. But as far as me coaching, not once as that work. I don't think we've ever got the change completed even. So I hate to waste too much time on some of them anymore.

You know, it's not a hockey story. I used to play fastball. windmill or whatever you want to call it slow pit or not slow pitch fast pitch and we were in westerns i forget who the coaches were but i learned afterwards it was called the saskatoon shuffler at least that's what we nicknamed it and so you have a guy on first and third and the guy from first acts like he's stealing second and falls trips and then when he gets up he acts like he's going to go back to first. And so what happens is, is the catcher throws it back to first,

and then the guy from third runs home. Meanwhile, the guy that trip doesn't turn around and go to first, he keeps running, ends up making it third. And maybe the reason it was so successful in Westerns Force is the only guys he told our coaches were the two guys on base. So the two guys on base had practiced it because they were following each other in the lineup. So they knew about it.

So when he gave the signal and whatever signal it was, they knew about the sastute shuffles on, but the entire bench didn't. So when he tripped and fell, we lost our minds on the bench. Like, get back, what are you doing? And then he keeps running, and we got in a hold of them.

We're all screaming because nobody knows what the heck's going on. The ball worked, and it worked like a charm. Who was your coach? I think it was Harvey. No, not Harvey. No, I think it was Harvey. Jim Harvey.

Jim Harvey. Jim Harvey. And then when they got back in, they were all laughing because they knew what was going on, and the rest of us had no clue. Yeah, that's a good one. And to pull it off at the Western championships, right? No kidding. And to get it to work, right?

That's a pretty ballsy coaching maneuver. And did it bring success in the end? Well, it ended up, I've been three Western championships, and that was one of the year we won. Oh, neat. Yeah. You never pull anything like that and work? Not that elaborate, no. I had Larry Wintoniak on here a few weekends ago,

and he talked about a couple different ones, like when you run out of timeouts, having the trainer having change in his pocket. So he'd throw change out, get him to throw change on the ice, and then the coach would yell at the people in the stands, and then the rep would have to come pick it up and buy you time so you could call your bench over

to have a quick little breather, right? And little things like that, or they had a broken stick where they'd saw it down, and so that the goalie could break his stick and have to come get a new stick and stuff. Like just weird things. You only think about if you coached not hockey, I assume. And yeah, probably less and less of that today. I would think so.

Yeah, there's probably more of that in the past. Going back to the BW rig general days, there are those some of the stunts. Yeah, some of the. So after you play CIS, And you play, well, CIS, I guess, actually, you both played, right? Do either of you think of going and playing, like, pro, or do you both just come right back to Hawaii? Well, Merv, you, I mean, you were going to come home.

I finished first, and I thought all along I was probably coming home, but then I entertained some options to go to Birmingham, Alabama, with Colin Greger, I guess, was my connection there. And then Oklahoma was Doug Sauter that had originally had me in Regina and Brandon at one time. And George DuPont was there. So I looked at those two places and thought real hard about it. My idea was to give it a year and try and get up to the international or the American League. And if it didn't work out, then it would be good.

And I thought real hard about going two more years with U of S. I had player eligibility, but I had my diploma already. So I thought a lot that summer, and then it was just, no, it's time to come home and get to work. So then it was a good choice, but certainly entertained the idea for a while. And for me, Sean, after my three years of an arts degree at Out East and Acadia, I came back to U of S and hoping to play a year with Mervy. You still had one more year left. And at that time, there was a rule that even if you finish,

your degree at a university or whatever institution you were at you couldn't go and just jump on to the into athletics at that university. I appealed that and on that precedent it actually the rule is now different that if you could now go from if you finish your degree at U of S you can go to U of A if you're going into a different program and go right into using your eligibility for athletics right away so we missed out on it because we were really really. hoping to have a year together. But that didn't work out. And then after...

So you ended up going to U of S then? To get my education degree after getting my arts degree. And so I did two years at U of S. And could have then maybe played the next year in conversations with... And Merv's coach at the time, that was his... Dave Adolf, Merv's... Was that your second year?

Serving coach. In CIS sports. Really? Yeah. And so, but then all, that was the first year of the Border Kings in my last year of university where a bunch of Merv and a bunch of really close friends were kind of all coming back and ready to get going with senior hockey and Lloyd. And so that was pretty attractive.

And so I traveled from Saskatoon that winter. But I did a month of hockey. schools and training with the Oklahoma City Blazers. And that was, I had an opportunity to play a season with them, but I got a contract to start teaching school in Onion Lake at the same time. And so that always gives pretty good advice. He thought it was probably time to get on with things and take the job in Onion Lake. And that's worked out well.

Well, absolutely. Yeah. Nobody can argue with the choices you guys have made, right? No. It's like Murph said earlier. It's, those are the choices you make along the way and whatever you do for anybody. And you make them and you move on. It would have been cool, though I've played a little bit of pro.

I'm saying that, every guy that I have in here who's play pro have stories that make you shake your head and go, why do we even try and play those minor leagues, right? Because they come with job insecurity, big time. And like, well, Kirkshank talked about having a hard time getting paychecks half the time, right? Colin Spencer, who was on here last week, talked about going to, I forget what town it was, but he and two or three other guys were living in horse stables and just like sketchy situations, right, to try and chase playing a little bit of pro hockey, right? And so you never know, you might have dodged a huge bullet.

Yeah, you never know what you're getting into. Anything's what you make of it. Oklahoma is a pretty, you know. situation where that was I mean afterwards they got the NBA team the thunder but at the time that was the big ticket in town and they they sold out every game a real strong team and I really liked Oklahoma as a Oklahoma City is a very western and got out to the lazy ranch a little bit and some of the events there yeah it's just their coach was tied in with express ranches too so if you like the Western way of life it was a real great real good spot yeah

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. So when you come back to the Kings, what year is that? Do you remember? 95, 95, 96 was our first year. Oh, so it takes several years then to get to where you're going in the Allen Cup. Yeah.

Yeah. Our first one was in 99, so three years and four year or a fourth year we'd have made it, yeah. But eight of us, I think, if I remember right, joined the Kings that year. so we had a great veteran group of guys around. Could you rattle off the eight? I'm curious. Oh, Ray Nielsen, Morgan, I, Warren Noble, Jason Plandowski. Tider Scott.

Dionne Pollard and Rob, or Dion and Mike Berman had gone the year before. Rob Quist. Jeremy Plymondin. Yeah, that's probably eight there. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Kevin Lane.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I just, a lot of those guys, I see him on a, I always think of Warren normal. I didn't realize Warren played as good as hockey, but he actually played really good hockey and won some championships too. Yeah, and he can scrap too. That doesn't surprise me. Yeah, speaking about earlier the art of learning how to fight on the ice, I mean, Warren figured that out. At an early age. He was an exceptional. Yeah. Yeah. At it, yeah. So what league were you guys playing in at that time? Big four. Big four, I guess, when we first started. And then our next year, We didn't even have a league.

And that was the year of Corey and some come, and I think we had like eight games. So, I mean, Lloyd's always been too big for where it's situated. It's hard to find. That goes all the way through minor hockey even, right? Like I talk lots about the Rammell, the rural Alberta Midget Hockey League, where you drive to Fort Mac and Grand Prairie, Port St. John,

all the list goes on how long our road trips, were right yeah and that's just Lloyd where it's situated yeah you're you're too far from the saskatoon reginas of the world and you're too far from the eminenton red dears of the world or so it seems right they have their tight little net so you they don't need you they don't want to come no that's right the wild goose the wild goose league we were in was was was a really good situation for the border kings because um the teams in the league that were close enough to Saskatoon would often, you know, they, they had the advantage of getting guys coming out of there and Battleford's comparable to size and the players they had.

Like, we, through those years, it was, that was good. Who was all in that league? Like Unity, Crobbert, Kindersley, Eston, ourselves, Saston, Eston, yeah. Some good teams then. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Those smaller towns were paying some money and hiring a bus load out of Saskatoon, or Van,

out of Sastunes. So, yeah, it was a good parody, good league. Yeah. So the big four, I mean, that first year and talking about exceptional years, that was one of my favorites, just coming back and getting to know some of the older guys that we kind of looked up to growing up and playing with the Lancers and the Border Kings, probably seven, eight years older than us or more. And have, you know, now your teammates.

And so at that time, we had just a little small bus called Big Red. Or was it Big Red? It was Big Red. Big Red. Yeah. And, you know, now when you travel on buses, there's the TVs and the kids watch movies and the high seats and nobody talks or on their phones. But on this bus, it was like two big areas that were converted into card tables. And so the fellowship on that bus, I mean, was exceptional.

And that was part, I mean, we just, it was a special year of the fun we had. And we're all about the same age that we're still pretty active with being social. And that was a great year. We had two guys that would step up and drive the bus, Milt Kay and Jim McGarry. Like, you know, when I'm 60, I can't see driving a bus load of guys to Meadow Lake on a Tuesday night and 40 below weather on an old school bus. But that was just, it was a special group. And we had so much fun. I remember we stalled the bus at the Macqua turn.

We got off to take a leak. And 30 below. So lots of us had scadu suits, but it stalled. We thought, oh, no, we're stuck here at one in the morning. And so Dean Robertson was the handiest with the engine. He's riding on the front bumper choking big red. And the other 20 of us are pushing the bus and jump her into gear. And away she goes, and the big hauler and away we go again.

So those are the great memories of playing. And those, I mean, that's a sport, isn't it? Or what we look back and realize hockey in any sport is about that those memories and those experiences and the friends and the fellowship, it's you don't remember many of your wins and losses through the season, but the experiences as a team. And it's important to teach our, you know, when you're coaching now, you try and message that to kids. and it really is what it's all about. Yeah, well, you talk to, I talk to Dad specifically, right? Dad's in his 60s now, but he plays with the Never Sweets from time to time,

or they got the over 60 skates on Tuesday, Thursday morning, I think, so he gets up with Gord and I think Des McMillan and guys like that. And they all talk about, you know, like they like being in the dressing room. That's the experience. love the most and that's the friendships and the camaraderie and sitting and having the talk it's not so much about the game don't get me wrong they want to play but they want to be around the guys they want to be around the boys they want to hang out and and relive and experience that thing and yeah that's i mean i i i asked the brothers at one point in time

why they retired and i still i'm still holding on i'm only i'm only 33 by no means of my old but i'm getting closer closer imagine closer as brew tells me he's got seven more years than you at least and I laugh at them, but I'm like, yeah, I don't want to quit. Like, I definitely do not, right? Because I enjoy it way too much. I enjoy that dressing room atmosphere way too much. And I know when you're done with it, it changes. Now you guys are on the coaching side of it, and I assume it has its perks.

But the playing days are something you just can never get back. No, they're pretty special. I think you find a time like you knew. You love coming to practice still. But you'd had enough of battling and traveling to games on a Wednesday night. And some injuries take its toll. And I know my last year, I just, it was great, loved it. But I also knew it was time.

I didn't want to have to give that much anymore to it. You know, in my time at Helmand, which is, I think this is, I think I'm going on in season nine, you two Yahoo's are the only two guys that couldn't convince come play. That's true. and I had you like that close. I had Ramona saying yes. I had Morg tell me he'd come play if you played. So Merv, that's all on you.

Yeah. Oh, I think I had a year or two off in between and then I knew I was past it of being able to keep up. You say you're past it, and then I play in a dusty man tournament. And you guys are, well, you look like you're both 22 over there. Yeah, right. That's gone by in a hurry, you know. If I'm, especially with Brew,

I'd always thought that it would be fun. You talk about Jay wanting to play one game with the hitman and I thought a season or even one game or to play a game with Brew would be something I'd always wanted to do and told him I'd like to do that. But, I mean, more than just brew, like knowing you growing up and his friends and the crew, like, oh, at 47, that's done.

We played Wilkie two years ago in Saskay Provincials, and there was a guy who'd seen. suited up who was 40. Martin Smith. Yeah. Martin played, he played with the Border Kings for a time. Well, there you go. It's only one game, guys.

He is a fanatic with fitness. All the listeners are on edge right now because I'm putting you on the spot, eh? No. No, no. It's harder to go to rec hockey some nights now, let alone to go back to. I think the biggest part for us, too, and what was the great thing about the Border Kings is we were never half in. Yeah.

That, you know, if we were going to play, you were going to make everything and not come across to the family once in a while or things that you would like to do. But we never miss practice. We never missed the game. And that core group was like that.

And that's why it was so successful and so much fun. But it also doesn't lend yourself to say, yeah, I'll come to the hitman and join you in January or I'll come every second week. And I, yeah. That's how I am.

Because it doesn't work. No, and I know that mindset. That's where my problem is, right? And I like, if I'm going to do something, let's do it 100%. It makes it enjoyable. Yeah. Well, and if you're a guy who's bought in 100%, and you've got a group of, like you say, eight or 10 guys are the same way,

you pull everybody else along that way. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So your fourth year, then, you go to your first Allen Cup in 99? 99 in Stony Plain, yeah. So you guys go 99, 2000, 2001? Yeah.

So 99 it's in Stony Plain, they host. Yeah. So did you guys host a Saskatchewan then in 2000? Yep. Okay, so 99 you guys win Saskatchewan to go to the Allen Cup? To go to the first one, yeah. Yeah, we beat out PA, I would say. And the only reason I'm bringing this up, and I may make it sound confusing, is the Border Kings bounced from Alberta to

Saskatchewan back and forth. Never in your time. Never in your time, you're always Saskatchewan. Okay. Yeah. And to get to the Allen Cup, you had to get through Saskatchewan and then win the Manitoba series. And in our early years, the class of senior hockey in Canada was actually War Road, Minnesota. And Marvin Windows sponsored that team, and so they're all college players.

And our first win of winning provincials in Saskatchewan took us down to War Road as the Manitoba rep. That was a real eye-opener. Just, I mean, they played on Olympic ice as well. And it was run like almost like a national team program. Yeah. It was amazing. Guys were there. They weren't going to day jobs.

Their job was Marvin Windows would bring them in and it was to be a professional hockey player. Where is this? War Road, Minnesota. Yeah. Minnesota. Minnesota. Minnesota was the Manitoba Red. Yeah.

Yeah. That time they allowed War Road to compete for the Allen Cup. They won the Allen Cup three years in a row, I believe. Yeah. They won it that very first year. They come up to Unity, who we'd beat out. That's who hosted. Unity hosted.

Unity hosted. The Allen Cup? Alan Cup was a tough sell. Like, I would say the Lloyd crew put it back on the board in 2000, that Stoney Plain had hosted several years. It was just a hockey tournament. And then when it come to Loy, It was like you talked about the banquets and the fan support.

And it made money. I mean, it supported our team for years. Yeah, sorry to bounce around a little bit, but you guys were just War Road, Minnesota playing in and then Unity. Oh, that's something else. Okay, so you go to War Road to play a Minnesota team to see if you can go to the Allen Cup. Yeah. Okay, just so I got that clear.

And so that was our first year, wasn't it? And so we'd had a great run and an emotional win. to win Saskatchewan where one of our teammates had lost his dad just before our final game. And that was against Krobert, which really had, as far as senior hockey goes, as good as senior hockey player in Saskatchewan, Dave Morrell, played there. And they had a real... Tim Willoughby was equally as good. They were so offensive-talented.

Paul Breezebaugh. Went to game five. And, yeah. So went back there for game five and won it. So old red was rocking on the way home. I remember Jack from J&M embroidery. He was celebrating with us like he'd won it to. He was so happy that that's how the team was received.

And he walked in our room with 48 beer and we did a few words. And yeah, that was as big a win for us as what the Allen Cups went on to. That was fantastic experience. But then going to War Road, we were, it was another level. Yeah. I want to get to some of the shenanigans that happened to War Road. I heard some stories of the hotel room shenanigans of leaners and possibly putting a piece of plywood up again.

I guess the hotel was under construction, taking a piece of plywood and putting it across the guy's door so they couldn't get out in the morning. That'd be mostly Merv's antics. Yeah, if the listeners haven't figured out by now. Yeah, not at all. They talked about Morg being the glue with Acadia, and that's exactly what he was,

thinking him as a coach now, and everything's got to be just right, and you've got to be paying attention. And we used to say to Morg, five minutes we're on, oh, let me know when she's two, boys, and he hadn't even started getting ready yet. And yet he'd be the first one out of the room. He was so frustrating like that.

But those were the things that kept kind of a room light and not keyed up about the game. And it takes all kinds in addressing them. And those are some of the things that add to it. And so those same pranks were played toothpaste in the earphone of the hotel phone or leaners on the door. Yeah, I can't. All the things I used to have. I'm pretty sure.

You know what? I come from a time. leaner. So I like to think everybody knows what a leaner is, but maybe just explain what a leaner is. Filling up your garbage can from your hotel room and half full of water or full of water and leaning it

up against the door and knock on the door and run, and they open it up to wet feet. That's basically... It is maybe one of the most frustrating things in the world to open your door up and just be like, ah, man, right? You think of it now when we think... You think at that age. We're...

20 years old, we should have been past that. You're not past that, no. You're right in the middle of it. Yeah. Yeah. I think the plywood story is just hilarious. Was that with, I think Mars and Bucky were rooming together, and we convinced the hotel chamber made to,

that was our room, we needed a key to get in, and we took out his mattresses and bedding and left him with just a sheet of plywood. Put to sleep on it. Well, the way... Yeah, all in good fun. Mr. Dallin talks about it is you took their mattresses out, put them on your bed. And then they went back and Mars was so stinking mad.

Now you got the coach and the GM in your room giving you crap, so you take them back. And so you sleep on it. And Gorey says he walks out in the morning because you're already gone for coffee or whatever. And he walks out, and he looks over, and there's a sheet of plastic. wood up against the door and a two by four leaned against the other door so they can't push it out because it's jammed in there and he can hear him going hey let us out and he's gone might want to say fire hazard now he didn't say specifically he just he assumed that two and two equals four right so you guys went in war road so then you go to stony plain no that first year we didn't get by war road

Oh, you didn't get by a World. And so... We made three trips east and never won a hockey game out there. We lost an overtime of game, but never, all the times we made it. Even when it was the Manitoba, like when War Road was out. It was when Manitoba or War World come here. It's the only times we were successful. That's tough hockey to bus, I'm going to say 26 hours, play five games and five nights.

is what it is. When you're not conditioned to that. You're not NHL condition. No, it's really tough. Interesting ones that always stuck out to me, I always marveled at these two big by fugelins that were on War Road. And years later, here comes Dustin Bufflin

with the, so it's his uncles we played against all that time. And they were big strong. And Roanuck, which is just down the word from War Road. Weren't they, those particular boys? Yeah. Yeah. And they come up and played in Winnipeg. Like in later years, War Road was done, and it became Isle de Shains or Grunthal.

I think they were at one time out there. Right, and they came up. Yeah. And on the opposite end, I think we'd won every series when we hosted. No, that when you're, when Gloa and Flewn, Oh, we were right at the end. Yeah, they trimmed us up pretty bad. So you get, okay, so you make your first Allen Cup appearance then in 2000?

99, yeah. In 99, 99 and Stony playing? Yeah. How did you guys do there? Who was the team there then in 99 that was the team that, well, I guess won it all? Stoney won it in the end, and they were quarterbacked by, Big Gordon Mark out of Irma, who played with the Oilers. Okay, yeah.

And he, I mean, lots of criticism of how he ended in the NHL or his ability, but he was fantastic, big and strong and moved the puck. He was a good, mean, really mean. He was a good hockey player, though. And lots of theirs were locals. We lost in the semis to Powell River. and we were a bit awestruck, I think, when it started. I know myself that I'm kind of happy to be there

and didn't have the week that we'd hoped. But we got into the semis, took a real run at Powell River once we got going, and then kind of knew we belonged after that. And so then we hosted the next year. Yeah, as you'd know, you have to learn how to win and how it all, you know, as you just don't come out of the gates in first time around in something and it all works out.

Later on, the Midwest Islanders and then they got going, what were they as with Out of Paradise Hill, I guess, for the most part at the end? Yeah. But they were the same example of, it took, by the end of their run, they were an awful strong team as well.

And so, and it was too much for us too. but in just getting started, it took them time to figure out, you know, what works and how to win and getting the right group of guys. And it took time for us to. To jet. Yeah, you just don't go to your first Allen cup. Boys brings memories of, it was boys on the bus when Grexky and them were talking about losing the first cup to the island. Seeing what it took to win.

Walking by and they thought they'd be hooting and hollering and they were all in ice packs. The wives were. basically. You're consoling them, right? They'd worked so hard and put themselves through such misery to win, right? And that's when they went, oh, that's what it takes. I watched your, I mean, the Hitman team with you, Sean, that, I mean, up into winning your first league championship, it, prior to that you had teams that were probably just as talented,

but it took, you know, it took time to figure out what it takes. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Actually, I was curious about. to how many years it took to get to the A of the Allen Cup, and then how many years it took to win it? Because I was telling Gord when he was on here, right? Like me and Brad Simon sat down and went, okay,

if it takes Gord three years to win the Sask Delta, it can take us three or four and we're okay with that. Because all of us are competitive guys. I don't want to lose the year and not learn something from it, and I want to come back to next year. But it took us, I think it was year four when we finally won. Yeah. Right?

And now we've been on a stretch. of making it there but not finishing the deal and that's frustrating in its own manner but you come up against good hockey teams that's what you want you don't want to cake walk it otherwise it wouldn't mean anything anymore right exactly yeah so 2000 you guys host then yep and uh we we'd lost out to regina and provincial so we had quite a long sit um but then when the tournament come once we got our feet wet uh we played really well we earned the the director of the director out to the final so we had the buy which is a huge advantage

in that like you play three and three nights and then one team gets a buy. Yeah and the other team is left to play five in a row yeah and as we all know even as young guys that is that is tough. Yeah. Powell River we played them the last

game of the round Robin and they actually sat some guys they knew they had to go through the semis by that time so they sat a few guys out, you know, they knew how to win. They'd won it before. They'd been in the semis a year before. Knew what sort of thing. So they didn't give us their best team that night. And then in the finals, we were tight. We were beat up a bit.

We lost Ray, I think, had two separated shoulders. Jim Bourne had a broken hand. Like, guys were playing, but we weren't where we should be or needed to be. Yeah, it still played like, I think it ended with us. like 20, 25 shots to the... Well, you hit a post and I hit a crossbar in the last two minutes to tie it, and they scored the empty net to beat us.

Like Gerns hit a post or had an empty net. Yeah. Like we had chances and outshot them and probably... Started a bit slow or a bit nervous. Yeah, tight and... But you thought your opportunity was gone. I mean, a lot of guys shut her down after that year, and we really had no idea we'd ever get...

back to that. So going into the next season, we were even scrambling to find enough guys to make a roster. Which is crazy to think. Yeah, no league to play in. And at that time, we didn't have a coach. We had to convince Bill Thon, Bill Thon, our old coach, to come back. And thankfully, agreed to do that. And we started the year, it just looked like it would be tough to finish the year. And it's funny how things work out, because that's the year we went on to win our first Allen Cup. Yeah, and I had no clue that Bill Thorn was the guy coaching. Oh. I had no idea. I heard his name today and I was like, well, who is that? Yeah. And on a side note, Bill goes into Saskatchewan hockey. Saskatchewan hockey all the fame this summer. Yeah. So a bunch of us,

Border Kings, will go support his wife and family for it. Yeah. Yeah, so where is Bill originally from? Melford. Yeah. Oh, he's a Melford guy. I think so. Yeah. I think so. Yeah, end up in Lloyd to play Border Kings and teach, and then was a principal in Maidstone for years. Yeah, you talk about dedication or commitment to a team. Like he coached us the one year he was living in Radisson and driving back three, four times a week to coaches. So, you know, and it...

And just, you know, for gas money, it wasn't a paid position, but... Yeah. He just liked being part of it. That's what senior hockey's built on his volunteer. volunteers, right? Absolutely. Yeah. You lose that and you don't have a

sport anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Well, absolutely. Yeah. I keep hearing that the Allen Cup might be dying. Yeah, it's unfortunate. I'm hearing the same thing.

Like they give out extra spots to Alberta teams this year. Yeah. Ontario teams had turned it down in Atlantic teams, I guess. And Alberta's, they're thriving. They have a great little league. Well, I'd just seen that Rosedown's backing out of it for next year. They just announced that they won't be in, what are they calling? To go AAA?

I actually, I don't know. Or they're in the league with Alberta. They're in the league. They play in the league and they said they just released a press release that said that they're announcing they won't be in the league next year. I really feel, and I know they've had to do this to compete at that level, that when you make the move to start having to pay guys and it's not for, you know, to want to play with your teammates

and the love of playing hockey still. When you're being paid to come, it's the start of the end. And, I mean, even in your league here with the local league, when you see communities that take that step to start, all of a sudden, you know, you have a pretty strong team. And, well, we just have to add a couple pieces. That's right. Let's pay a few guys to come in.

It usually spells the end. Well, I can safely say, and I've said this on many podcasts, A, the Hillmont doesn't pay, but there has been, every year probably, comes around once or twice where somebody asks to get paid. Yeah. And it's a simple choice of no, right? But it puts you on the spot every year, right? It only takes one person to say, oh, no, and we can do that under the bucks, nobody needs to know about it, right? In senior hockey, there's a way to get around it. And then it's slippery slope, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope it doesn't. I mean, it's all this hockey trophy and... Yeah, as old as Stanley Cup. It's older. 1909, I believe. Yeah.

Right? Like, that's a lot of years. I... To keep something going like that takes special individuals. Special people just to keep pushing it and, you know, like... We always go back to volunteers, but without volunteers, a lot of things don't happen. Mm-hmm. I mean, and senior officers...

hockey. We just had an rewards banquet, right? We get to, you know, have all the volunteers out, give them a supper, that kind of thing, right? Make sure that, you know, we're trying to give them, you know, a round of applause and thank you for helping because I thought those people, right? Like, the guys just get to come out and play hockey. And I mean, without them people pushing and coming and sporting and all the fans even coming out, right? Like, I mean, what do you really got? No, that's the reality for playing minor hockey. in, you know, in small towns. That's right.

Without you being willing to give your time to fundraise for the rank and to work the kitchen, and it's a great experience. It's a great, it's great for your kids to be in a situation where they see mom and dad giving that time and the effort it takes as a community to, just to play. Yeah. I think it's a terrific place to have your kids grow up and see that to play a sport and to enjoy the fruits of, of hockey that the effort it takes to be able to ice a team and to have a rink. And I think that's what makes Saskatchewan and always has unique.

And as towns start to shrink and you just hope that it's there in the future as farming becomes more bigger and bigger and less people are able to make a living that way. And it's, I worry for the future in that regard. And there's a lot of, Well, you guys know it. Like you go through Saskatchewan, you go to some pretty cool little small towns that got some pretty cool ranks. Absolutely. History and everything else that goes with it.

Yeah, I don't know. Senior hockey is, well, in Saskatchewan, I mean, it's just like, it's a beast of its own. It's so cool. There's so much history there. Every little town, right? You know, it tops up there with probably. five of the coolest nights that I've ever had. But the night we wanted in Helmont,

the party that happened after we won, is something I will never, ever forget. From the 18 or, I guess, 19-year-old to the, like, 70-year-old partying until 5 in the morning. And, like, I always say, like, I had to get pretty much helped out of the dressing room to have my wife come pick me up, take me home, and there was still 70-year-olds partying,

60-year-olds partying. Francis was one of them, right? He was still giving her. Raymond Falemeyer was another one. They were just, right? Like, they were going. Yeah. And that is something that, I mean, I'm sure the PA Raiders last night had an epic party.

I guarantee it. Right? Like, that's, but for a little farming community of Hillmont, Saskatchew, and to have a drone of 37 years and then to win a Saskalta title, right? And the party that ensues after it is pretty cool. Yeah. And like I say, it's just etched in my brain. brain.

Like, what was it like winning the Allen Cup that year after you almost don't have a team or you're struggling to find a coach? Now you find pieces kind of start to fall together. You guys win your league? We weren't in a league. Oh, yeah, we weren't in a league. No. And a couple of key things, like, it just, when we look back, it just, things fell into place

and worked out, and it was just our time. Like, two of our defensemen had been long. time Border King players Rob Quist and Ray Nielsen decided to come back and play again after Christmas that was key. It took them till that time to get healthy from the year before so they come back rested and better than ever. And that was a huge one. We found three guys from out of town, Dave Morel that we'd said was kind of the elite of Saskatchewan senior hockey. Martin Swenson and Ian Monroe.

Yeah. Best Monroe had ever played in his life. Yeah, and just everything ticked. Even to get out of Saskatchewan, North Battleford had a really good team that year. And Regina, no, or Regina. We were scared of Regina. We were scared it, and they beat out Regina because Regina got us previously. And then we found our way around.

We had a guy named Jeff Rosner. And he was a unique individual. You mentioned Marty Smith a while back there of still playing at 46. Well, he was a battle for talent, homegrown boy, really talented. But he did not like Rosner. And Rosner just spent the whole series scaring the living daylights out of him, might say. He told Morg after he said he ruined my summer, he said it was not fun.

And that's how that Rosner played. He was just mean and had no idea what he might do. Fun to have on your team. Hate to play against them. Yeah. And when you were talking, when I was reflecting when you were talking about the party, yeah,

we certainly had a party, but our party was more like this. We had to fly out of Detroit at like three, four in the morning. No, six in the morning. So we were leaving Sarnia at like two or three in the morning. So our party end up being sitting around a great big round table. And everybody spoke and talked. and talked about what it had meant.

And it was just so memorable and so enjoyable. I mean, a few were certainly full, but there was a lot of heartfelt things and disbelief that we'd done it. And it was equally enjoyable. That team is now on the SAS Cockkey Hall of Fame, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, we went in last summer.

Like, that had to have been special. Yeah, it was good. and it was even now maybe more with losing Bill that next year. And so, yeah, it was a cool experience. And, I mean, just looking at the board over there, a guy like Elmer Franks who had put so much time and you're talking about volunteers into sports in the community in general, let alone the Border Kings hockey team,

that it was rewarding for them just as much as an individual. Yeah. But the tournament, again, that it worked out. At our first game, we played Dundas. Yeah, Dundas. And they were probably the most talented. They had 12 X NHL players on their team as on paper. It shouldn't even have been a game.

And the way the game started, it looked like, oh, boy, this is going to be a long tournament. We were, they've dropped the puck, and I got slew-footed right off the first drop of the puck. I stand up to put my helmet back on and we're lining back up again because they went down and scored. I got to interrupt. As a coach now, I cannot believe. But Corey won the drawback to me, and I'm all about a deep start in the opposition end, and now as a coach. But Corey won the draw to me, and I hit up the ice and gained their blue line. I drop pass just over their blue line.

I don't know what I was thinking. Drop pass. Look up as I turn around. And here's Morg down on his knees trying to pick his helmet up because he'd been slew-footed and his helmet was off. They go down and score. And this is like, I'm going to say 12 seconds? Yeah.

Like, yeah. And I would lose my mind coaching 10-year-old kids now with that play that I did. Anyway, Morse now, man. So then we line back up again. And I get strapped in again, but you're trying, you know, you're battling and you're not going to take this. So then I slew foot the guy I'm lined up against to give him a little bit of medicine back. And I get the, I'm in the penalty box. And they turn around within 10, 15 seconds of the penalty.

They score again. So we're down to nothing within a minute of the game. And then we had a bit of a semi-brawl in our end where Jason Clegg, our goaltender. was a real chirper and fired a few of their players up. And I remember one of them made a comment, like, you guys might be the worst team we've seen all year. Like you don't even deserve to be here and thinking, geez, he's probably right.

And then it turned. I went down and it was 2-0 at that point. And drove to the net with the puck. And to this day, I'm not convinced it went. in, but it was under the goalie enough, and the goalie was in the net that I jumped up and threw up my arms, like it was in and pointing and trying to, you talk about the antics of the game, trying to sell the goal, and Raffey looked around, and he pointed that he's seen it too, and he hadn't, but blew the whistle goal. So now it's two-one, and then Cory

Dellan then shot one off the back of the goalie's head. And kill the penalty from behind the net, hit the back of the goalie and went in. So just went our way. It just turned and was sort of like maybe this is meant to be. I think we won that one five, too. In the end. And the mortgage spoke earlier about goaltending. Cleg was the MVP of the tournament and deservedly so.

And deservedly so. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He was having a winning week. He went to the, he's a real gambler and went to the racetrack and won a bunch of money at the track. But then he got a phone call from Anita to, to say that his young son had just flushed kale, who's now with L.A.,

that's right, flushed a tennis ball down the toilet, and they had to pay the plumber something like $700 to come and fix the plumbing. So he said there went the winnings from the track, but he was on a roll. Oh, God. So you guys finish in top spot in that Allen Cups, you get to buy. I keep hearing about this baseball story on your day off. You're having a day off. Do you care to enlighten me on this?

Well, just, you know, we're real advocates now coaching, not sitting around the hotel room. So become a ritual. It was a great setup there. Our hotel was right near the rink, because near the restaurants. So we didn't have busing. We just played in the park like we were kids

and walked to the restaurants. But our ritual every day was a game of scrub ball with a tennis ball and baseball bat. we bought it to Fishers or Walmart or something. There isn't Fishers anymore. There wasn't Walmart then either, I don't think. But yeah, I forget. I think Morg was pitching and Mars was our hump.

And so a high fastball come through and caught Marcel right in the eye and downed them. And so that was the injury report. Buchanan was sending injury reports back to Lloyd over the radio. The only injury report we had was Marcel with a black eye. But those were, again, camaraderie and bringing team together and not sitting around in individual groups. Everybody was out there doing it and having some laughs and staying loose. So that's when it is easier to win on the road.

I know hotels and restaurant meals make it tough for teams that aren't used to it, but togetherness sure does help. When you're in Lloyd, you sat there all. day, that last day, thinking about that game. Back to you. Most people went to work and work and a long day worrying about it and fretting about it. We're here. We were together and we were light and we dominated Petroli in the finals. So is it then the next year you get to go to Poland? When do you guys go to Poland? Yeah. So at that time, Hockey Canada awarded the Allen Cup winners to, actually to go to the

Four Nations Cup was always hosted in Japan. Japan, yeah. And that was an Olympic year and the year of the lockout because going into it, the team we end up playing Poland had played previously that was it. Greskes traveling. Yeah, Greskes, yeah. So anyway, they set up a deal that we could go to Poland and play their national team. And that would have to be a highlight to have that opportunity as all Canadian,

all of us growing up have that opportunity to put on that jersey. And I'm going like, you know, on, of all the things I ever wanted to do as a kid, putting on a can of jersey is pretty much at the top. Yeah, no, I'd agree. And that's, I've told the kids, like there's two Allen Cup rings and that jersey's classified in with it.

And they've had their choices to what I would leave them. and that's their choice. Yeah. And it is mine too. I mean, I appreciate the rings. But that jersey, I still put it on to watch World Juniors or the kids like to wear it when the World Juniors are on. And certainly, I know we weren't in the World Juniors, but we were representing Canada for three games, and it was a highlight. Any stories from over in Poland?

Oh, not in particular, probably. I know when we first went there with, there was an assumption by their media that this was like a pro team coming over, not working class individuals from one community that just happened to be fortunate enough to put on the jersey and come over that they were asking a lot of questions of how many years of NHL experience. And there was none of that on our team. The media was pretty tough on them, like they were ecstatic. They beat us 7-6 in game one, and they were ecstatic.

And then through interpretation, and they come to realize we were just a club team and not the team they would face at the Olympics. And they faced a lot of criticism then and disappointment all around. But, yeah, so we, 7-6. And a late goal, like it was tied. Yeah, we tied it late. And Bart Redden will say, again, he would lose his mind on his kids to do it now, but he had a chance to get the puck deep and tried to make a move and lost it.

And they went ahead and beat us that game. So there was that one. But then I think that kind of the highlight, the next game we played him to 3-3. We toured Auschwitz that day and was a real eye opener. And we got there late. and we thought they backed the game up. Our interpreter was a bit wingy, and he got us there late. So we, like, bused for three hours in, got off, got dressed and had to play.

And always something that sticks with me is Willie Desjardan was our guest coach. Oh, yeah, yeah. And Willie said, I have never seen a group of people team work like you guys or not use excuses. He said if that was an NHL team that got in late, they would refuse to dress and this and that. And he said, you guys just, it's old hat, you went out and you played your hearts out. So those kind of...

Yeah, he said it was a very refreshing trip to see hockey at in its pure form again about guys that really love it that much and no excuses and worked that hard. And our trainers. And he was a real treat to... Yeah. That he was so worn out by a... I don't know,

entitled kids that have been dealing with with the blades to work with us to please and thank you and carry his stuff for them. And, you know, those are sort of lessons we try and instill in the kids we coach now too. I guess from that game, and it was very somber trip, and nobody spoke after touring Auschwitz to go to,

was that to Zaccopain? I think so, yeah. Anyway, and played them to a 3-3 tie, but they really outplayed us and outshot us badly. And I tell this to students at school all the time. Every now and then in sports, you see something that's exceptional, or like it's hard to believe what you just witnessed. And that game, Clint Chokin playing goal for us was like in another world. He made saves that were unbelievable.

And I don't know if you concur, but that, I mean, it was just exceptional. I don't know if you could see a game, a goal played better. And after the game, he was awarded the, he got the Tomahawk for player of the game, and he took that to the local tavern after. And the locals there, I mean, all wanted a piece of them. gathered around and so as the night went on he was demonstrating to them how to ice fish and he was auger auger auger and he went through chisel chisel and then he'd make a big show of catching a fish and they'd all jump up over his chair he was a local celebrity for sure so that was we had a lot of

fun that night he celebrated so vigorously we practiced like i think we were practicing by 10 the next morning and and Clint was not a star the next morning. He was horrible. But he got his gear on and got out there anyway. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know, you guys played a lot of years for the Kings. Ten years?

Ten for me and twelve for Murph? Yeah. And I hate to glaze over the second. Like you end up going on to win a second Allen Cup. Do you guys appear, you appeared in five? You appeared in five? I was in five, yeah. Morgan would have been four.

Okay, four then. me, eh? Yeah. Like, the character, like, I guess we could talk a little bit

about the second on cup. I mean, that's no slouch either. I mean, that one was in, uh, back to Stoney again.

Yeah, Stony plane, right? Yeah, not a whole lot. Was that the first year? Was televised? Merv?

No, I don't think it was televised. Was that not televised? Because now they tell, this year I watched. Yeah, and they have been for a while. I think it was actually one of the next,

uh, year or two, because I remember. I remember watching Hood play with Bentley in Manitoba and Benzmiller from here as well. Yeah. I remember watching that game. Speaking of which, where did I put that? There was a Benzmiller on your guys' roster?

Brad, yeah. It's from Kittsoddy area here. Oh, it's a different? Ah, I got you. I got you. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the Benzmiller name and I went, I'm going to realize that Benzmiller played for the Kings.

Yeah. And he was a scrap. Hustle as well, yeah. He wasn't big. Nope, but played with everything he had. Everything, yeah. Hard on his body. Was that second year you win the Allen Cup as special as the first?

I mean, I guess, I mean, the first is always special. Yeah, different, eh, when you're not Morgan and I together. Yeah. But to also think that we'd never do it again. And then I remember in the fall, we had a few kids show up and thought, We got a better team than we've had the last couple. And we didn't have a coach at the time. So I remember about four of us went and sat with Stanley to see a feed coach

and looking around the room and thinking it was Tyler Scott, Greg Brown, Scott Hood, myself. And I was thinking, well, Hood's still going to play. But the other three of us, we may not see much ice with a new coach. But guys were willing to do that to be successful still. Yeah. And so from there, yeah, we had a good run. Really good run. We lost to Bentley the first game we got there,

but we realized we fit into, and then it all fell in place. Also had probably the best goalie again. McKeckeren that had won in Lloyd two years previous to that with Thunder Bay. And he was a star. Yeah. Thunder Bay is when they beat out Horse Lake

and they kind of became Lloyd's favorite to second favorite team. For sure, when we were out, everybody got behind Thunder Bay. Thunder Bay. Because of theories, antics, while he was in town. Okay, so I can see Morg has looked as well. See what time I'm keeping him here to do at night. I just tucking it away. I got a couple quick ones for you, a couple fun questions that will get us off.

the beaten path. I had this one, me and Lance callback were talking about it. And he had a question he wanted me to ask. So if you could use a time machine to go to any sporting event or if you like any event in history, where would you go and what event would you go to? I want to see the Kentucky Derby someday. You know, it's a tough time of year for me to get away. You can do that in the future.

You've got to, you're in a time machine. go back. Mom and dad went to the Kentucky Derby this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. As they find it as special as like. Yeah, they said it was. Terrific.

Terrific. Yeah. Yeah. Neat. Someday. To go back. I guess I don't even follow it anymore, but a heavyweight boxing match at Madison Square. Yeah.

Yeah, I was just going to say, I consider Muhammad Ali to be the greatest athlete to ever live. And maybe when he. He beat Sunny Liston for the first time. Yeah. Would have been pretty cool. That would be cool. I hadn't thought of that. But yeah, Muhammad Ali in his heyday.

Yeah, and the social movements he caused during his time for what he stood up for. Yeah. That's a good one. I didn't see that one coming. I thought for sure someone was going to say Bobby Orr flying through the air or something along that lines. Famous picture. Yeah. All right.

If you were heading into game seven of the Stanley Cup final and you could choose one teammate, who would you take? I have a teammate That you played with? No, no, no. Let's not even go there. Let's just see you had one player you wanted to bring along. Who would be game seven? It doesn't have to be a teammate you played with.

It can be Wayne Grexie for all I care. Mark Messier. Mark Messier. Mr. Game, well, not Mr. Game 7, Mr. Call the game. That was actually who I would say too. You guys brothers or something. But I'd go throw another one out there that I really. liked it was Larry Robinson.

Larry Robinson? Yeah. No, that was kind of the childhood idol that I admired all the way through. Yeah. What has been the hardest adjustment from playing to coaching? I

just literally watched Rod Bridmore and had a little special on him before the game started and he was talking about making the switch from playing to coaching and he said, I thought you know, coaching, how hard? How hard? can it be just make sure your players get ice time the best ones and the rest you just kind of manage you and you know whatever and they go play and he goes oh i was wrong right and yet he's being very

successful at it but going from playing to coaching what what surprised you like what was what didn't you come well for one i as a player and being pretty loose and bit carefree younger and never really thought the coach had much to do with the outcome um not that i enjoyed every coach i've ever had and always respected who that was and appreciated my coach. But I just as a player just didn't think that the game was determined by whoever was the coach. But now as a coach, you feel like the stress of wins and losses feels like it's your responsibility. And so now I feel, yeah, that would be one thing of feels, and not necessarily, I guess, the outcome.

I still, it's the players underneath you, but I didn't realize the stress that goes into those wins and losses of, you know, trying to find that way of getting the best out of all your players and making sure they're looked after and if you care about them and want them to succeed. In the game and on the ice, but also as being successful as people, it's stressful at times. Yeah, certainly. I'd echo the stress.

Like I sleep on the couch thinking about it or lay awake there thinking about it a lot more than I did as a player because you had your hands on the outcome more or you could do more about it, it felt like. The other thing, you know, I get, there's times where you'd like to get back out there and write a wrong, that watching or coaching a game now and you see the other coach doing something that you don't agree with or even refing for that matter. But I mean, there's nothing you can do about that now and that's frustrating.

And as a player, you could get out and you could hit somebody or you could have a fight or maybe try and score a big goal. But as a coach now, you're stuck to just trying to give advice and put the right people out there. and motivating through words or, you know, it gets, it gets empty at times, like how else to say the same thing and get the message through. But yeah, you're right. It can be frustrating to at times not have the autonomy to get out there and do something about it. I'll end with one final one.

It's a little game we've been playing here over the last couple of, a couple of, Start with more. Sure. It's easy. There's nothing, there's nothing tough about it. There's a game where you, you got a Mary one,

Dave, no, Mary one, kill one. Screw one. That's the nice way of putting it. But we turned it into hockey. So you got to sign a guy, trade a guy,

buy out a guy. And the three guys are the last three Oilers' first overall picks. Bouchard, Pooley Arby, Yamamoto. Who are you signing?

Who are you trading? Who are you buying? out. I'd sign Bouchard buy out P.R.V. Trade Yamamoto. Yeah, I'd have to agree. You don't think there's anything there with Polly Arby? No.

Honestly, he's the most frustrating guy who watches, floundering around, lost. And I remember Mork saying he went us up and sat close in a game and watched Luchick just about losing his mind having to play in a line with B.R. maybe if he gets to the miners over some time and get some confidence and some systems in him, but I don't see it. I think it's unfortunate. So the Oilers scouting staff just miss it that much? Well, I mean, his countryman, the GM of Columbus, passed right over him.

He obviously would know him better than anybody, and he passed right over him. If that wasn't a red flag, I don't know what. was but I mean it it can't I mean I'm certainly not those are smart guys making those decisions too and their hockey guys like he come out of world junior and then played I think that year in the in the world hockey with the senior championships I mean look like he could play but watching him live or watching him now it just doesn't seem like he has the sense to play at that level the hockey IQ any raise some very good points I think he was a surprise I think that They had no idea that they were, you know, it was always a lock.

Those three were going. Yep, one, two, three. And, you know, they probably put a bit of time in, but had moved on to four, five, and six. And then all of a sudden it got thrown at him. And then what was Kachuk then two picks later to Calgary? Yeah, something like that. I mean, and the way he played that year in Red Deer when they... Yeah.

When they won the Memorial Cup. And I remember, like, Kail Kleg was in it with... that year with Brandon and Jason coming back saying that's the guy. Yeah. Like he just brings everything. The tenacity, you know, we'll do whatever it takes to win. And you can't put a value on that. I mean, you may be big and skate.

And the Oilers over the years have drafted a lot of those guys, trying to emulate the 80s of guys with speed and do one thing really well. But the one thing they haven't seemed to be drawn to, and maybe that comes with getting that. first or overall pick where other teams that pick deeper, you're maybe not the same skill set, but that grit and want and that competitiveness. Like I've said to teams when I'm picking a team, I evaluate three things. And number one to me is compete in battle.

It's the first thing, the most important thing to me. And secondly is your hockey IQ and third is your skill set. But I don't think anything's more important than that willingness to compete. it's the difference between winning and losing they almost seem to want to take that away from kids or players now though like they don't want to Chuck to be the agitator and they play so many games

and it's a business to them that most of the league is down on them for playing that way but you win hockey games with those guys too I mean why is Boston winning? I'm just going to say it's still what makes the difference Marchand was, well, social media was just blowing up on what he did to Justin Williams at the last game, right, where he gives him a little shot. And I just like, people just forgot what a pest is.

That's what he's doing in the playoffs. That's how you win. You get on the other team's skin, you get him off their game. And then all they're thinking about is how to drill you, and in the meantime you're filled in it. Yeah. In any sport, I mean, the will to win is just the X factor. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, really cool, guys. I really appreciate you guys coming in and do this. You're two guys that I was thinking about when it came to me learning how to skate my edgework and all that. I always remember the hockey camps and the power skating, and that was Morg. You were the guy out there all the time with a lane, wasn't it? Lanna Lane, yeah. Lanna Lane.

And somehow you made power skating fun. And I'm telling you, power skating is not fun. Yeah. Right. And then I give high praise on other podcasts to the year that J.P. Kelly and Merv were my coaches in Bannam, and we won it. I wish we would have won provincials that year. We were that good of a team and we're that well coached. But I really appreciate you guys coming in.

This has been a lot of fun for me to sit around with you too and hear your guys' stories and where you went and where you played. And hopefully make it a fun experience for you guys as well. It certainly brought back some good memories, Tiger, and. It's been a pleasure. Thanks very much. Yes, thanks for coming in, guys. Right on. Hey, guys.

That was a lot of fun. I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I enjoyed sitting across from those two. I got a lot of respect for Morgan Mervman. They come with a lot of stories. They've been around a lot of hockey, to be honest, and really cool to just hear their stories and where they've gone. and just their thoughts on hockey and different aspects of it. So next Tuesday in studio, I am joined by Skip Crick.

Originally from North Battleford, he played for the Sman Bruins and the Sjahel. And obviously he went on to play. If you don't know who Skip is, he went on to play in the NHL with the Bruins, the Kings, and the Sabres. He eventually played in the World Hockey Association with Cleveland Cursaders and Emmington Oilers. So I'm really excited for this. I've heard nothing but positive things about Skip and that his stories are legendary. So I look forward to having Skipping here next week. Thanks for tuning in, guys.

Until then.