Shaun Newman Podcast - #283 - Paul Brandt

Episode Date: June 29, 2022

Paul is a Canadian country music artist who has been the CCMA's male artist of the year 5 different times. We discuss his music career, pivot points in life & founding Not In My City an organization that raises awareness of human trafficking & sexual exploitation.  Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Support here:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast⁠

This is Jordan Tutu. This is Grant Fuir. This is Glenn Healy. This is Mark Letestu. Hi, this is Scott Oak. Hi, this is Braden Holby. This is Tim McAuliffe of Sportsnet. Hi, everybody.

This is Darren Dregor. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Hump Day, Wednesday. Hope everybody's having a great week. We got a cool one on tap for you today. Before we get there, let's get to our episode sponsors. Blaine and Joey Stephan, Guardian, Plumbing and Heating,

the 2021 Lloydminster Chamber of Commerce business of the year with a team over 30 who thrive on solving your problems and offering the best possible solutions. They got 24-hour emergency service available because we all know when it comes to plumbing and heating in this part of the world, probably every part of the world, nobody wants to wait until the morning. And so they'll get you fixed no matter the time or day. They also have developed and manufactured the world's most efficient grain dryer right here in Lloyd Minster. So all the farmers out there, go take a look. And at guardianplumbing.ca, also on gardening plumbing.com, you can schedule your next appointment at any time.

The Deer and Steer Butchery, Old Norman and Kathy James family-built butcher shop on the north side of Highway 16 and Range Road 25. That was back in 1995. It was originally built. Now it's had a facelift and upgrade. They're open for business. They've got a butcher from town with 20 years' experience. and they're looking to get your meat in there. They get you fixed and situated.

Give them a call 780870-8700, and I would say, ask if you can help cut the meat as well. If you got the time, it takes, you know, half a day to get in there and see what they do and then to actually take part in cutting up your own meat, man, I tell you what, when you stick it on the barbecue, it doesn't taste any better than that. Such a cool experience that the deer and steer offers. Give me a call 780870-8700.

Gartner Management, their Lloyd-Mister base company, any specializing on all types of rental properties to help meet your needs, whether you're looking for a small office or a 6,000 square foot commercial space, give Mr. Wade Gartner a call today, 780808, 5025. Now let's get on to that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum. For the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm commercial or oilfield locations. For more information, visit them at Hancockpatroleum.ca.ca.

He's a Canadian country music artist who graduated in 9,000. 1992 from Mount Royal University with a degree in nursing. He's released a total of seven albums, been voted CCMA Song of the Year, male artist of the year five different times, 96, 98, 99, 2000, and 2002. He's been awarded a total of eight Juno's and the 2005 CMA's Global Artist of the Year. He's the founder of Not in My City, an organization, raising awareness, and taking collective action to prevent an end human trafficking and sexual exploitation. I'm talking about Paul Brandt.

So buckle up. Here we go. Hey, everybody. This is Paul Brandt, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by Paul Brandt. So, sir, first off, thanks for hopping on. Thank you so much for having me today, Sean. I've enjoyed your show, and it's an honor to be here with you today and to get to know each other a bit here. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I, you know, I was saying to you before we started that Small Towns Big Dreams back when I was in high school, graduated in 04, That was a big song. Of course, everybody knows Alberta Bound, and there's just a whole list of different songs you've released over your career that have impacted people in different ways.

And certainly my story is no different than a lot of Canadians and Albertans, for that matter. And it's just an honor to have you come this way on the show and, you know, talk about some different things that have impacted your life. Sure, yeah. And small towns is, that's a really special one for me. It's funny, you know, my wife, Liz and I have, well, we've been. on the road pretty much our entire marriage. You know, we just celebrated our 25th this last February.

And I remember, you know, we got married, went on a honeymoon. But a, you know, a week later, we were on a bus with, she always says 11 smelly musicians. And away we went 180 shows a year. And I've always, you know, really loved using Liz as sort of a sounding board for the music, because she's an incredible musician and a great editor. Like she's just good at,

You know, guys like us, gift of gab, she's good at like, get to the point, you know. And I remember playing her small towns and big dreams when I'd just written it. I was so excited about that song. And it's the only song that she got wrong. And I like to rub that in whenever I can. She was like, yeah, no, no, I don't think that one's going to be a very good one. And I was like, you just wait and see. So, yeah, it's kind of fun that way.

We bounce these ideas off of each other. Well, you've got to always have one or two things you can hold over your spouse a little bit, right? a little bit of friendly teasing. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. That's about the only thing I have over on her. So in 25 years. So I'm going to hold on to that one for sure. You know, in my archive episodes, I always get to sit down with people who are, you know, anywhere between their 60s and 90s. But the one thing that a lot of them have that are common is that they've, they've had successful marriages. They've been together for a long period of time. 25 years is no small feat, especially, you know, like you say, grown up while being married on a tour

bus. I'm sure that came with its own set of challenges. What lessons you learn from 25 years of marriage, Paul? Oh, man. I would say that, you know, it's definitely a friendship and there's definitely work that's involved. It doesn't sound super, super romantic, I guess, but anything good that has ever been a part of my life has always taken effort and work and maintenance, you know, And I think that, you know, for Liz and I, we just really compliment each other well. You know, I remember doing this television special called Country Couples with her. And, you know, beautiful mountain location, the foothills out here in Alberta, where I am right now. And the videographer was filming us and asking about some of those questions, the things you brought up, like, you know, what's married life like on a bus and, like, all this kind of stuff?

And he asked what our roles were like, you know. And I think it's a really important thing for people, you know, considering, considering marriage, you know, been in a relationship for a while and considering that commitment piece, you know. It's a good idea to go through your personal tendencies with someone that you trust. The two of you, you know, get together. For us, it was a pastor at a church. He kind of said, okay, here's some pitfalls you guys are going to have right out of the gate. And I can tell just by talking to the two of you, you know. So this interviewer anyways, he's like, so what are you?

your role's like and just as he asked the question he turns to Liz and he had to change something with the camera so he's fiddling with the camera and she didn't think he was filming right so so she's like well you know i mean like i've got a pure mathematics degree and paul's this super sensitive guy who writes poetry and he loves words and all this kind of stuff and you know he cries at the drop of a hat and she says i'm not very emotional it's it's kind of like i'm the man and he's the woman and i look over at the camera and the red light is blinking you know beautifully there and and of course they put that, you know, dead center in the, right there in the special. But, you know, I think what's cool about it is that we do know what our strengths are,

and we try to play to those strengths. And other than that, it just takes a ton of grace and forgiveness, patience, all those good things. And we've been having the time of our lives. We've got two kids now, 14-year-old boy, 11-year-old girl, and I just feel so blessed to have my best friend. and also be my life partner in this way. And it's been pretty awesome. When you say, well, you're two kids, I assume that changed everything as it does for every married couple.

But, I mean, once again, touring on a bus, did your kids come with? Yeah, you know, we waited for quite a while. Like those early days, we were 22, 23 years old, and we were on the road those first three years, about 180 shows a year. So, you know, when I was doing my promotional stuff for songs like My Heart has a history, yeah, I don't know if you remember that one.

So my heart has a history. I've got the guitar here, right? When we wrote this one down in Nashville, the guy that I was writing with, he was like, well, you know, what if we do, you know, this line, first time, he's singing it like this, first time I looked into your eyes. He's a really cool California guy, right? I knew this moment would arrive. He goes like that.

And I'm like, that's cool. I said, but what if we go, I knew this moment would arrive? And I hit that low note. And he's like, dude, you can hit that note. We're putting it in the song. And we just found out that that song has now become the most played Canadian country song in history. And when you get out to promote a song, what you do is sometimes you're gone and you hit

five cities a day sometimes. So you're like a FedEx package. And so the idea of kids, it was kind of like, yeah, no, I think we're going to wait for a little while because you're just everywhere, you know. And so we waited for about 10 years. And, you know, it was right around the time that I was writing Alberta Bound and all that kind of stuff that we were starting to think, maybe we are going to move back and maybe it's time to start the family. And since then, we have taken the kids out when they were really little. We had to have a lot of help because Liz is on stage singing with me a lot of the time too. And so Joe celebrated his fifth birthday on a bus and came on the road and tried to kind of figure out what it's all about, you know, and both of

them now love music and are, you know, budding musicians in their own right. So yeah, it's, it definitely changes everything. You know, as a songwriter, I would say it gives you more colors to paint with in a lot of ways. You know, if I was going to miss a song, not to mention of your you know, your list. My Heart has a history. Of course, everybody knows that song. And of course, it would be the number one. What did you say the number one country song? It's been the most played country song in Canadian country music history, which blew my mind because like, you know, I've had a chance to meet and work a little bit with Shania. And I would have expected that she'd have that. But I think what happened is because they crossed over into the pop world that gave my heart

has a history a little bit more room. So I'll hold on to that as long as I can. It's pretty cool to know that it's been, you know, that much a part of people's lives. What does that mean to you? I mean, just in general, like, I'm, I've got about as much talent in music as, you know, like, I'm, I'm horrendous. I'm not even a beer league player when it comes to music. You get, like, I can, I can hear the tune. I love music. I love music. But to have a song like that, for all Canada, like, I don't even know what it would, do you, just put your hat on the wall and go, well, that's, that's the way she is. You know, it feels really great. I think the biggest thing for me in this career, I don't know if I'd go as far as to say

imposter syndrome, but sometimes I just kind of shake my head and go, how the heck did any of this happen? Like I, you know, I was a registered nurse at the Alberta Children's Hospital. And I really wanted to be eventually a pediatrician. I love my work as a registered nurse. And I thought that it might be a great way for me to get into med school eventually. You know, nursing is an incredible career. And I thought what I would do is get my degree and then try and work my way into med school. You know, I didn't have the money to get into med school at that time. And I knew I was going to have to have a job to fall back on.

And so that was sort of the track for me. My dad was a paramedic. Mom was a registered nurse. And I thought, okay, this is the family business, right? And I was 21 years old. I'm mooching off my parents and living at home in the basement still, you know. And I remember coming home from work one day and dad's sitting on the couch. And he's like, just got this weird look on his face.

And he goes, there's a message on the phone for you. And so I'm like, okay, so I pick up the phone and push the button. And I hear this Southern accent. And she says, hey, my name's Paige Levy. I'm with Warner Reprise Nashville. I signed Dee White Yon to the record company. And I heard your demo. I think you're real good.

I want to come up and hear you and your band play. Give me a call. You know, and I just was shocked, right? And I'm like, okay, so I dial the number, call her up. I'm like, yeah, sure, come on up and hear me and my band play. And then I hung up the phone and I picked it up again. I called a buddy. I'm like, dude, you have to help me put a band together.

Like, I didn't have a band. I was playing, you know, in contests. I was playing in basements and coffee shops and just doing it for fun. And all of a sudden, you know, it was the big leagues. And it's been an incredible journey, you know, and it's an honor. you know, to be a part of people's lives, you know, with everything opening up here now again, first shows in two years now are starting to happen. And we've got a big gig in Dauphin at the Country Fest, one of my favorite places to play coming up here on Canada Day.

And I know we're going to have a great time. It's going to be a lot of fun. May I ask, what's it about Dauphin that makes it a favorite, one of your favorite places to play? What is it about Dauphin? Because that's where everything went wrong one time. So, which actually made it the best. So I was in Calgary. I don't think I was living in Calgary yet, but I was in Calgary. And we were slated to do the show years ago. And I remember getting a call first thing in the morning. Usually we show up a day or two before, but we were cutting it close. We were super busy. And I was going to be flying day of. And a lot of the band guys were too. And so I get a call for my road manager about six in the morning. And he's like, Paul, I don't know what to tell you, but there's a torn. coming through Nashville and I'm not going to make it and about three of the band guys aren't going to make it.

And I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, like it's like, we've got a show tonight, you know. And so, excuse me. So I found out that two of the players were in Minnesota. And so they were going to be able to make it. And it was my drummer and my keyboard player. So it was like this country power trio. Like it's like drums, keyboards and acoustic guitar for me. And I was terrified. Like I'm like, you know, this is like a wall of like whatever it is, 16,000 people. And they came and paid for a show, right? And so I walked out on stage, thinking, how am I going to start this? And I just walked out, no fanfare, nothing.

I walked up to the microphone and I said, you know, I woke up this morning and they told me the band wasn't going to make it. This is all. This is it. This is all that could make it today. And they asked me, what do you think, Paul? Do we have to cancel the show? And I said, obviously, you've never seen them party in Dauphin. We're not canceling anything. Well, you should have seen the place just went nuts. And they just supported us through the entire, like, hour and a half that we played and sang to every single word.

And there's just an incredible spirit there. So I'm really excited to get back. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. We'll bring the band this time. That's a cool story. And that's one then you can never forget because you found a way, you know? Yeah, absolutely. You know, in digging into some things, Paul Brand, other than just from music, I stumbled upon your TEDx talk and your pivot points.

I found that very, I think fascinating is the right word because you're talking about being 25, talking about them wanting you to sing a certain song that you won't sing. And one of the guys, you call it the stand your ground or stand your ground pivot point. pivot point based on principles. And the guy says to you, what's more important, your beliefs or what you believe or your career? Mind leading us through that story because I feel like it, hearing that TEDx leads right into not in my city. I'm like, oh, wow, that's a big curve in one's life

when you talk about all the success you're having. Yeah, you know, so the way that it kind of worked back then in the industry anyways is, you know, they'd sign a young artist and you'd get, you know, you get the opportunity to put out a record. They'd spend, you know, quite a bit of money to get you out into the marketplace and you'd hope to get a platinum, you know, platinum record. And if you sell that million, really for most artists, that's a break-even point. The label makes a whole lot of money, but the artist generally doesn't. And then things sort of, you know, escalate from there in the relationship.

So the manager would walk in on album two and say, you know, the artist has a really sore throat. And the label would go, okay, we'll give you more money. And he'd say, oh, the artist is better. Let's go ahead and do the second album. And it was just a negotiation piece. So we were coming into that piece after selling a million records of, you know, coming into the second album. And there's just a lot of control. And we were in a boardroom with the label, and they were talking about what Paul was going to be saying and singing and doing and dressing like and all this stuff.

And, you know, I'm in the room. And that's part of the game, right? You're a box of cereal. You're a product. And you put yourself in that position. Excuse me. And I think that, you know, for me, I was listening to all of that. And there was one song in particular that they wanted me to sing.

It was a great song. I mean, it became a hit. for someone else and really well-written song, but it just wasn't what I wanted to say. And as a songwriter, you know, it's a really important part, I think, of the process for me is what I'm going to say. And so I pushed back and said, I don't want to sing the song. And it got kind of heated and we went back and forth a few rounds and eventually they said, what you'd mentioned, you know, well, what's more important what you believe are your career. And really what they were saying was there's a million kids in line behind you that we can put in your place.

So just do as you're told, you know, and I listened to that and I thought a lot about it. And I talked to my manager and I went in a couple days later and talked to the head guy at the label. And I just said, look, I think we're moving in two opposite directions. And, you know, I think it's a really common, you know, crossroads for a lot of people in business. If you have success in business, you get to this place where you have to ask yourself what the grand why is. What is it that you're doing and why are you doing it? What's the main thing? What is that driving principle that pushes you forward?

And after thinking about it for those few days after they asked the question, I said, you know, what I believe is more important than my career. It comes second. And, you know, I asked to be let out of the deal. You know, I said I'd live up to my word. I had a seven album deal. And they said no. They held me to it.

I had to continue delivering music. I did for another couple of years. And it was the night that I played Massey Hall. For any Canadian is like the moment, right? Like, that's when you've made it in Canada when you play Massey. And they called me right before I walked on stage and they said, okay, fine, you're free. Go do what you want to do.

And I've never felt more terrified and more excited all at the same time. I mean, it was a feeling of freedom. And then it was like, oh, man, now what? And it was a lonely place and a bit of a scary place, but it was the best place. And I'm really glad that it turned out that way because it pushed us into a whole bunch of other adventures that I probably never would have experienced. You know, it's funny. I find that story, certainly not the country music part and the fame and everything like that. But over the last two years, a lot of people were asked about their beliefs or their career.

And that was something that played out not only in Canada, but a whole bunch of different. And when I heard you say that, I'm like, oh, man, you think that's a, that's a tough question. I mean, when it's written on paper, you're like, well, of course, your beliefs, right? But what if your career is country music? What if your career is playing in the NHL or, or, you know, being an actor or whatever else is there? That's a large question. At 25 years old, I mean, it's easy to sit where you are now and go, well, it all worked out and I knew exactly what I was doing. But at the time, that's a big question for a young star to

answer. Well, I think you're right. You know, I think a lot of people have been struggling through those ideas. And a lot of people are thinking about that right now. What does it mean to, you know, to stand up for the things that you believe in? What does that look like in a free country? What is, you know, liberty look like? And is it possible, to have freedom without rules. I think that's a really important question to ask. And then what that takes you to next is, well, then who gets to say what the rules are?

And one of the things that I've always looked to for inspiration is the Defein Baker quote. You know, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. And, you know,

these are all questions that are out there floating around right now because I think people are trying to figure out what is freedom really mean? You know, is it F-R-W-D-U-M-B or is it F-R-W-E-D-O-M? And then who gets to say what the rules are that govern it? You know, you talked a little bit about Not in my city and I'm sure we'll get into that, but I've had the opportunity to go in and speak to school kids, you know, in an age-appropriate way about human trafficking. And I'm excited to tell you about all of that and how we got into all of this. But I walk into the class and I asked the kids after, you know, introductions, what does freedom mean? And without fail, there's always a kid that says, well, it means you get to do whatever you want to do,

whenever you want to do it, you know? And I love it. I just wait for that kid, you know. And, you know, now they've got laptops on their desks. And so as I'm continuing on with the presentation, I'll walk over to his or her desk and I'll grab the laptop and walk away. And it's like, wait a minute, what are you doing? I said, well, I thought you said with freedom, I can do whatever I want. I said, no.

I said, like, what does freedom require? And usually there's a kid that says, well, you have to have rules. And then we dive into it from there. And it's a great conversation, you know, talking to these kids about what freedom really looks like. and it's central to this issue of human trafficking here in Canada and around the world today. Yeah, well, and it's a complex issue, right? Exactly what you just laid out. It's a difficult, yeah.

It's not just free to do whatever you want because you're absolutely right. It's to only take a couple simple examples and you're like, well, of course you can't do that. I mean, that's too extreme or of course you can't do that. That would cause lawlessness and chaos to form. And so once again, you're right. it becomes a very complex issue, but freedom no matter what is an ideal worth striving for because there's no better place in the world than currently where we sit in my eyes. I love Canada.

I think that what Canada was built on, the systems and ideas that Western civilization were built on, I think, you know, are foundational to this country. And I hear a lot of people talking about systems change and systemic issues. And I've been getting really, I think I'm getting better at this, asking the question, what do you mean by that? Like asking people to define what they're talking about. Because I think it's really important for us to understand each other. You know, I'm a real proponent of civility.

I'm a real proponent of being able to disagree with someone and, you know, still stay at the table. I think it's a really important skill. And it's something that I think we need to see leaders model more, the willingness to stand up, even if it's not popular, and have a conversation about things that you feel are important. Even if it means you don't get elected next time. I think sometimes it's an important thing for leaders to do.

Leaders stand in the gap and they show example of how best to have conversations. And so for me, you know, I think it's really, important to try and create spaces for you know for these kinds of discussions that's one of the reasons I was really excited to get on and chat with you today I ask people what do you mean by systems change and are you saying you want to rip everything down and replace it with something else or are you saying that we need to improve it because if you're talking about improve it I'm all for that I think that we can always improve systems we can always get

better at what we do but if you're talking about ripping down what my country was built on. I can't get behind that. I don't see that being a really great way of working on anything really in life is walking in and burning it to the ground and then starting over. For the most part, it's about taking the winds and then building upon them. You know, well, and the thing about burning it down, because I certainly share your sentiment in that leaders need to learn how to have or need to show everyone how, or maybe both, how to discuss with the opposite side because, I mean, they're leaders. That's the whole point of them, right?

Elected officials, as I got told by some listeners, which they're bang on with that. But regardless, they're in a position of leadership. And when you're in that position, you need to learn how to sit and converse. And not only that, you're bang on when you say, you can't leave the table. I think that's something that's happened a lot, where they just like shut them off or, you know, in the age of social media, blocked them, blah, blah, blah. And now social media is a dangerous little beast.

I mean, you know all too well about that. I've lost my train to thought, Paul. It's funny. You got me thinking about this now. Welcome to my world, man. ADD Central, holy smokes. As a songwriter, that's kind of what it's all about, is you just sort of chase these little ideas around everywhere.

And, you know, I was, we had been talking a little bit about, you know, making that decision to leave the label and when all of that stuff went away. And that's really was sort of the beginning of all of the work that we started doing with, not in my city. And this, this, this beginning of our eyes being opened up to what freedom really looks like. I remember, you know, calling my agent after I left the label. My manager went on to manage the Grand Ole Opry. So I was self-man. managed. I'm sitting in this rental in Nashville without a record deal going, who am I? And what do I even doing? Like, now that I don't have a record deal, am I even an artist anymore? Like, how does this work? And it was a really crazy soul-searching time, you know, trying to figure out what my identity was and what it was that I was hoping to accomplish. And I just kind of went back down to the roots, you know, started thinking about those ideas, the grand why type stuff. And, you know, whenever I write something, the first thing I try to do is ask the question, what does the world need? And then I try and write music towards that. And so I started writing

the Small Towns and Big Dreams Project. I called my agent and I said, book Small Towns Across Canada. I want to go to places that nobody goes. We're going to go to Yorkton and Morden and Weyburn. and we're just, we're going to go to red deer and like places that most people don't stop in a tour bus. And 900 seats or less, we're going to play them a live acoustic record that they've never heard before. And we're going to record it live. And she's like, you're crazy, that's not going to work. And I'm like, we're doing it. And, you know, I got myself to a place where I realized that I feel I was created to be a singer and a songwriter.

And when I speak, for some reason, people listen. I don't know why. It's just been like that my whole life. And so I'm going to go do that. And I'm not going to worry about the details. I'm going to do what I feel I was made to do. And then we'll see what happens. And so we went out and we toured and played all these small places, recorded the first 11 shows and used that to make the Small Towns and Big Dreams album.

And I got to the end of the tour. We pre-sold the album. So we said that people weren't doing this back then. Like, this is still CD world, you know? And I'm like, yeah, trust me. I'll send you a CD if you give me your money, you know? And people are like, yeah, I don't know. And so we finished the tour and I'd only sold 1,000 copies.

And I was coming off of selling a million records. And I'm thinking, I'm dead. This is it. Like, it's over, you know. And then a bunch of stuff that, I don't know, it probably shouldn't have happened or it doesn't generally happen, started to happen. I called a record company in Canada and asked if they would,

if they would distribute the record. They gave me an incredible rate. I think they felt sorry for me, honestly. And so they barely charged me anything to do this work. Then I was invited to host the Canadian Country Music Awards that year. That year, it was broadcast in the U.S. and Australia and Canada. That's never happened before, never happened since. And then I performed on the show as an unsigned artist, which generally doesn't happen.

And they called my name at the end of the show for album of the year. And I walked out on stage and, you know, I don't hear voices, but probably as close as I ever have come to hearing voices, it felt like God was saying to me, just get out of the way. Just do what you know you're about and do those things that you believe. And I'll take care of the details. And it was just such a freeing moment. Like I realized at that time that I was going to do what I believe.

in and I was going to do what I loved even if nobody paid me to do it I was going to create music and sing for people even if nobody showed up because it's who I am and even if I have to invest to do it I'm gonna do it it's just that's my life and I'm in it to win it you know and and it was a really freeing moment you know because I stopped worrying as much about what people were saying about me and and I started you know just kind of focusing on what I was about and that was a good thing for me. That's a fascinating story. Think about that. You go from a million, which that's a hard number for my brain to even comprehend. You know, that's such a large

number. And now, of course, with YouTube and everything else, people are getting hundreds of millions and everything else, but still, 100 million, down to a thousand. I can comprehend that number. That must have been an ego dicing moment. Like, ooh, that hurt. Well, I think one of the things that you start to really think about, and Liz and I went through this process, it's a great book. It's an older book. It's called Half Time by a guy named Bob Buford. And Bob's a, he was a super smart businessman. He made about a billion dollars selling a cable company when he was in his 40s. And, you know, there's crises, I think, that can happen to people when you only sell a thousand or when you make a billion. Like there's a crisis that happens because you have to go, okay, now what, right?

And he was having a success crisis trying to figure out what he was going to do now that he sold his business. And so he talked to his wife and his wife did a bit of research and found this counselor, you know, business guru who helped. business people to focus on what it was they were going to do in the next stage of their life. And that's kind of what this book, Halftime is all about. And I would encourage people, if you're lacking focus, it's a great read. He goes through some incredible personal crises in his own life and it talks about how he came through it. But this exercise that he went through with this business consultant was figuring out what that grand why was, what the main thing was. And so me and Liz kind of went through that process on our,

our own way. And what basically what they do is you whiteboard everything in your life, everything that you want your life to be about. So you just get a big piece of paper and you write music and I want to have kids and I want to have, this was our list, you know, buy a house someday because we were still renting, you know, have a successful marriage. You know, my faith is important to me, you know, all these different things. And that part is fairly easy. Like that part is actually not too hard and then he says okay you can only pick one and that that is the hard part because it doesn't mean you have to get rid of everything else um but you pick one and then everything else serves that and um and so for us it was our faith and that really was the core driver for everything

we do and we talked about that earlier what's more important what you believe or your career And so we put that at the top, but then it's not about like going, okay, this is number one, this is number two, this is number three, and then trying to figure out how to juggle it. Everything serves that. So everything else underneath that, music, having kids, buying that house, you know, all of the things that you want to do, how does it go through the filter of the main thing? And then it's incredible, like the kind of things that you start to realize come into focus. Like, we'd have huge, like, six-figure business opportunities come our way.

And I'd put it through the main filter. And if it worked, yes. If it didn't, no. And it was easy for me to make those decisions instead of, like, agonizing it over it. It's like, well, no, it doesn't help me to do the main thing. And that was a really freeing time for us and really helped us to have a lot of focus in our business, I think, as well. That's really interesting. I've just jot it down the book because I think for me,

I find that really fascinating because one of the things I've always said, what you're talking about, at least in my brain, sounds like a core principle, like something that is, you're not willing to sacrifice it for anything. And for me, it's always been my family, my wife and my kids, right? Like to me, that's the building block. After that, you lose that. None of it matters. You get a million followers, but you don't have your wife and kids along. What the heck does it matter kind of thing? and I find that very admirable because that's a difficult question no matter or a different maybe not once you're there though but I find that very interesting well it's a good touchstone right like it's a good thing you can come back because I you know not any nobody's perfect and I think

that it's really easy to get off course of what you're trying to focus on sometimes and you can always kind of come back and go okay I've documented this I wrote this down I mean this is a commitment here. So how are we doing? And I think you go back and have those moments where you sort of reevaluate and try and figure out if you're on track with all of that. Well, I appreciate you sharing that because that's an interesting thought that I'm going to, as I'm sitting here, we're jotted down the time. From time to time I do this where something in an interview, I'm like, huh, that was interesting. I'm going to have to go back and listen. I'm certainly going to go back and listen to your thoughts there because not only the book,

but just the thought process is really interesting. Now, as we move along, you take a trip to Cambodia after all this. And this is where I stumble upon this, not in my city campaign. I sat and I talked to Theo Flurry. This must have been four or five months ago. And he brings it up and he just stares at me like, where have you been living for the last, you know, decade? And I'm like, Theo, not on the same planet, obviously. But let's talk about your trip to Cambodia, how this comes to be, what you see there,

because it spurs on something that I had literally zero idea was happening. I just can't even put myself in that position. But then starting to listen to different things after me and Theo talked, certainly following along with a little bit of what not in my city is about. You start to go, holy dinah, and it becomes a bigger picture. I'd love for you to share some of that, Paul. Yeah, so, you know, we were actually doing a lot of shows at the time and we were super busy. Liz and I were out on the road together and and we we came across this documentary

it was it was on Dateline NBC and it was called Children for Sale and this was you know probably 17 18 years ago and and it was sort of the beginning of anyone even talking about or understanding the dynamic of what was happening with with sex trafficking with human trafficking and it was unbelievable like this was an organization called the International Justice Mission A felon, Gary Hogan founded that organization. And they decided what they were going to do is they were going to go to Southeast Asia. And IJM works alongside law enforcement and justice officials using the laws of the countries that they're working in

to try and bring justice to certain situations. And they knew that this human trafficking of children was happening in Southeast Asia in the country of Cambodia. And at the time, this has changed since, but at the time, children were actually seen as owned property under the law in Cambodia. So they knew they were going to rescue these kids and get them out of this brothel. But under the law, they were going to have to take them back because the brothel owners actually owned these children. And so they decided that it was controversial, but they decided that they were going to go ahead with the undercover operation and do this anyways. because it was going to raise so much awareness and hopefully international outrage and maybe give an opportunity to change the laws. And so we watched this documentary.

I mean, at the end of it, you're just, you can't believe what you've just seen. I mean, that there are actually people that there's a market for this. And so, you know, kind of tucked that away. And right around the same time, you know, we'd left the label. So we were free to make whatever decisions we wanted to make whenever we wanted to. And an international humanitarian organization approached us, I guess somewhat coincidentally, and said, hey, we'd like you to come on a donor trip, learn more about the work that we're doing, and you can go to one of like 93 countries around the world, wherever you want to go.

Let us know when you can go and where you want to go. And we said, we'll go to Cambodia because we thought maybe we could learn a bit more about the issue of trafficking, learn more about that country. It just, it's set in our minds so much. And so we found ourselves finishing up a tour in Ottawa. After being on the road for about a month and a half, we got on a plane, flew back to Calgary, did our laundry, got on a plane and flew to Cambodia. We were exhausted.

Like we were, we finished a tour and now we're flying around the world. But we were just going at that speed all the time. And when we got there, we were introduced to an organization that was poorly funded, but But what they were doing is they would go to a child brothel and they would pay the rate that someone would pay to take a child and do whatever they want to do with that child sexually for the day. And they would pay that and take the child to a safe location and let them be kids. They'd feed them and clothe them and take care of them for the day.

But at the end of the day, they had to take them back. you know, the horror of the abuses that those kids would be suffering, everybody knew what was what was really happening there. And that was, I think, a huge moment. I know for me, for Liz, it was a huge, huge moment. You know, she lets me share some of her story. I don't really get into a lot of the details, but she was abused when she was a child. And that really sent her into a tailspin, seeing those kids and what they were dealing with on a daily, nightly basis. And so it had impacts on Liz and her health for a number of years. And I think at that point we knew that this made a dent.

This was going to be a part of our lives forever. And I came back to Canada and started, you know, learning more about the issue of human trafficking here. And for me, I think for everybody at some point, when you're faced with the issue of human trafficking, you know, with knowledge comes responsibility. And we all have different capacities to affect change. to affect change. But I think that when it comes to this issue, we all have the same responsibility.

We have to do something about it, using our gifts and our abilities, our talents. You know, you're letting me talk about this on your podcast, and I appreciate that. But I went back to that place a couple of years later, and we all have this aha moment where we go, oh, now I get what you're saying, because it's such a horrible thing. Like, I mean, most people, it's not even on your radar. And I went to this area where where it was known for the worst of the worst of what was happening with child trafficking. And there was a California-based businessman who had was in the process of building a three-story building to be used as a sex destination hotel, to bring in busloads and plane loads of men from around the world

to sexually exploit young children. Across the street from this place he was building was a warehouse where they would drug the children during the day and stack them on top of each other. so that they would sleep. And then at night they gave them amphetamines and they took them out to work at the area, the brothels around that area. And when he saw us working in that area,

he got nervous because that's what happens when you stand up to bullies. They get nervous when you do that. And he decided that it wasn't going to be good for business that our group was working in that area. And so he put the building on the market. So we pulled our resources and we bought it. And we turned it into a church and a health clinic

We turned it into a school with the idea that it would educate young Cambodian minds who might be able to affect change for their nation someday. And I met a little girl that day who was five years old. She was being sold six to eight times a night. And that was my aha moment. As a father of young children, I asked myself, what am I going to tell my little girl that I did about this? What am I going to teach my son about how to respect and interact? with women and I knew that I had to do something and our lives changed forever that day. You know, I've been back to that place and I'm happy to say that it's shifted from that

place of horror to a place of hope. Now that school is alive and well and kids are singing and playing in the streets. People are painting their houses and taking a pride of ownership because someone said you can't do that to these kids. And when I came back to Canada, I started to realize that we've got a way bigger problem than most people understand. This is one of the fastest growing crimes in Canada today right now. The average age of being trafficked in Canada is 12, 13 years old, younger for indigenous girls. Indigenous people make up 50% of Canada's population, but they represent, sorry, 4% of Canada's population, but they represent over 50% of trafficking victims in our country. And this is 150 billion.

billion dollar a year industry internationally. You know, each trafficking victim to a human trafficker is worth about $280,000 a year. This is huge, huge business. And they literally refer to these girls and women as they're stable. You know, the dehumanization is just almost unconscionable what's happening. And you know, for a country that wants to say that it is an egalitarian and, you know, equal society between men and women. I don't understand how there's any room for a person to purchase another person in Canada, because that's literally what's going on. That makes it as unequal

as it can be, right? And so, yeah, I mean, the greatest risk factor of being trafficked is being a girl. And we're really excited to see what's going on from a public awareness standpoint now with this conversation. It's coming to light. People are starting to talk about it and understand it more. And that's been the work of not my city. I don't trust my voice right now because I mean that that's that's tough. My daughter turns five here in a month, right? I just I think while you probably know this, you talk about it a lot. So for us, I don't even know, Yoho is on this side that live with their heads in the sand most days. I feel like I just can't even put my my brain can't even go there. I just don't even under, you know, and I'm sure you've heard every different thought on this.

And I certainly listen to you with Theo talk about, you know, it's, you want to put your head down because you just like, how can how can someone do that to a child, let alone anyone else? And then the second thought is like, and you already, you already mentioned that in Canada, that's, you know, one of the fastest growing criminal activities in all of Canada. I think this can't be happening here, except not in my cities in Calgary. And you're saying exactly that. It is happening here. Yeah, you know, I think that at first when we started talking about all this, it felt like

it was such a big problem. Like, how do you, where do you even start, you know? And you're right. Like, for most people, it's not on your radar. And I think it's important to say that if it's not, if it hasn't been, been. It's important not to feel guilty about that. This is, this takes place, you know, often it's a very hidden crime. Traffickers, it's a, it's a low risk, high profit business. And what we're trying to do is disrupt that and make it a high risk low profit business. But it can happen in

places where it's just not even on your radar. And that actually helps them to do business. So that's one of the reasons that we think it's important to talk about it and to encourage others to have this discussion is that it disrupts the business. So, you know, I was, I was given the least academic title, I think, ever before it on a human being. I was working over at Mount Royal University with the branding and marketing students in between albums. And they were tasked with listening to my stories, like the one that I just told you about Cambodia. And then they had to build, you know, real, real world business or social enterprise projects based on my stories. So I was called the storyteller in residence.

And I told them the story, and they were like, we had no idea this is happening here. We need to do an awareness campaign. What should we call it? And we came up with not in my city, because the idea was, like you said, most people go, well, that doesn't happen here, right? Not in my city. And then at the same time, that double meaning of not in my city,

this is not going to happen here, right? And we, I talked to the students about how, It's been seen, this isn't always the case, but large sporting and entertainment events, we see the market's bigger and there's people in from out of town. And so, you know, traffickers look at those opportunities. So, you know, Super Bowl and we were looking at different sporting events in Canada. And the stampede was about to happen. And so we built a campaign that we were able to run during stampede time that first time. that first time about five years ago.

And we were able to, through a sponsor, through the sponsor MNP, the accounting firm, we had a tarp on one of the chuck wagon races. And we had our big yellow rose, which is our symbol. And you'll see it in airports across Canada. And we just tried to stir it up and try to get people talking, right?

And it was very successful that first year. You know, when we started this conversation, five years ago, the fact that human trafficking and sexual exploitation of children and youth was even happening in Calgary or in our community. And then once we showed them the statistics, they were like, I had no idea. And we've gone from, it's impossible to I've had no idea, I had no idea to what are we going to do now, right? And that's where we are today. Last night here in Calgary, if you happen to be downtown, you would have seen the Calgary Tower lit up yellow. June is our seeing yellow month where we encourage businesses to whatever there,

selling or whatever they're doing on social media to use the color yellow to raise awareness for the work that we're trying to do here to raise awareness about human trafficking. So yeah, it's been an incredible journey over this last five years for sure. Well, I'm curious, over the course of five years then, what has it kind of taught you? What have you seen through working with the organization? Well, I think that it's taught me to try and be a little bit more sensitive to seeing the things that maybe I normally wouldn't see. Because, you know, when you know what to look for when it comes to the issue of human trafficking, it's actually quite a bit more obvious than

you might first imagine. Traffickers are very deliberate in the way that they do what they do. They'll identify a young person who maybe is looking at their shoes a little bit too much when they're on the sea train. It has poor self-esteem. And with the statistics, they play the odds and walk up to that kid and say, hey, you know, I was abused when I was a kid too and try to build trust. And once they build that trust, then they'll start to buy them things, take them to places, take them, feed them, bring them to different places, you know, develop that that friendship. And then there's a moment where it switches and it's like, okay, now you owe me. And that's where the trafficking situation could begin. That's often how we see this happen.

It's not generally that that gorilla sort of, you know, like the taken movie where someone gets kidnapped. And I mean, that can happen, but that's generally not what we see happening. It's a lot more of a trauma bond that is formed and there's a trust. Many trafficking victims that I've spoken with have said that they didn't realize they were being trafficked while it was happening to them. Sometimes it's two, three years after they've exited their trafficking situation where they first realized, oh, that's what was going on. And it's such a subtle, challenging personal journey for so many of these trafficking victims and survivors. And I think it's taught me that, you know, to be to be a little bit more aware of some of those things. And also as a man, you know, not just as a father, but as a man, it's made me more aware of, you know, what types of entertainment am I allowing into my circle?

What kinds of conversations am I having? What types of jokes am I laughing at? And when I do that, what am I saying about the things that I think are important? You know, I worked at the Alberta Children's Hospital, and when you're in a position like that, it's such a position of responsibility, especially when you're taking care of kids. And I think that this work in the fight against human trafficking,

has really, you know, I don't want to come across like, it's like, you know, I spend my whole life thinking about serious things all the time and I don't ever have any fun, but it's just made me think about life in a different way and the value, the value in each individual and how important it is in a free country to stand up for the value of each individual. Yeah, man, that's a lot. Like, honestly, that's a big, big topic. Well, yeah, and just the fact that it's happening in Canada, and even more, you know, like I just, the not in my city really makes a lot of sense to me because I'm like, you think, no, that can't happen here, right? You're talking about Cambodia. That's on the other side of the world. What are those Neanderthals doing, right? Like, there's back in the Stone Age, but then you realize it's a bunch of people from Western society, Europe, et cetera, that are all going to this place. And then you sit back and you go, you know, it's happening in Canada. It's one of the fastest growing criminal activities.

And you're like, oh, like that's, you know, and you think like how on earth can this possibly happen with the internet? I assume that's giving rise to a lot of this because now any kid, you know, can be approached in almost a harmless way, Paul, I would assume. Yeah, yeah, the internet safety. piece is a really important part of, I think, understanding the issue of human trafficking with young kids. The two most common platforms that are currently being used in Alberta to, you know, attempt to exploit or traffic kids or Instagram and Snapchat. And we know that, you know, for sure. I've heard FBI agents talk about getting on social media. This one guy, great guy from, from Arizona. And a huge, like six four dude, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

And he's like, he'll pose on social media as a 13-year-old girl and jump on Snapchat or whatever. And he says, it's like a matter of minutes before someone's trying to send him a bus ticket because, you know, I understand where you're coming from and I really want to be your friend and I'd like to meet you. And so he has the trafficker send him the bus ticket and as a 13-year-old girl and gets on the bus and rides across the United States and gets off the bus and puts the handcuffs on the trafficker. is just the greatest feeling ever, you know, when he's expecting to see a 13-year-old get off that bus and then it's the FBI agent instead. And this is all through social media. You know, any game where kids can talk to strangers, parents need to be aware. Also, when you see a change in behavior in your kids or they're coming home with expensive things that you didn't buy, you know, friends that maybe are a little bit older or you see that

that shift in just like that goes beyond just the regular teenager kind of stuff you know um and a lot of this stuff you can learn if you go to not my city dot c a we have a free training program there it takes about a half an hour and you actually get a really cool little diploma that you can print off and all this kind of stuff we've had over 3,000 people take the course now and um and it's it gives you sort of the science sort of what to look for um and how you can you know be a part of the solution as well and so i'd really i'd encourage people to go to not in my city.ca and check that out too. Maybe while you're talking about the different things, you know, going to the website,

doing the course, that type of thing. In five years, I was thinking, man, you must have some wins. You'd sent in the email kind of a brochure. I don't know if that's the right word, but you get the point. It's a report to the community. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the wins that you've been able, you know, that by starting it, you know, you talk about standing up to a bully and they don't, you know,

all of a sudden, or shining a light maybe in a dark area and all of a sudden it isn't dark anymore. What are some of the wins that you've been able to, I don't know, pull off the right word? Geez, I feel so weird talking about child trafficking and human trafficking. Like it's, it just seems so foreign coming out of my mouth. But at the end of the day, you know, like dealing in it in this world, I assume. you've been able to help, you know, I've read that only 1% of people who are trafficked escape it. And I'm like, oh, that's a rough statistic, right? Like, that isn't something where you're just like, oh, you plan your exit and you get out. It's like, no, 1%. Like, that's low. But being

a part of this organization, being a part of a provincial task force, that type of thing, you must have some, you know, hopeful news or some good things to report, I guess. what I'm trying to do that. Yeah, I'd say we're moving the needle. You know, I think that early on when we were still at, you know, at the university and just, you know, not in my city was just an idea. Just starting the conversation was enough for a student at the university to be identified as a human trafficking victim that was being trafficked from the university. Someone on the outside was controlling this young woman through texts. And the professors could never figure out why she was getting up and leaving class so much.

And she would leave the premises. And a lot of kids are trafficked on the weekend. They go to school during the week and they're trafficked on the weekend and come home at the end of the weekend and go back to school. And so that person was identified and resources were able to be brought her way so that she could get out of that trafficking situation. We have five strategic directions with Not in My City, empowering individuals who have lived experience of being trafficked, building community awareness and action. And that's just getting everyone together to do something, talk about this.

Supporting high risk youth is really important. We know that there's a progression of trafficking. Trafficking is an outcome of vulnerability and kids are very vulnerable, especially if they come from difficult social backgrounds with their families. advancing leading practices, what's working, right, and talking to everybody and figuring out how can we address this issue together. And then addressing the unique needs of individuals that are in vulnerable groups, right? And that's an important part. So we've seen some cool stuff happen. Like our team has been just incredible over this last five years, the people who have been working to really make everything happen with Nod in my city.

and one of our executive directors, Bonnie Johnston, Bonnie was the CEO at the Shelton Kennedy Child Advocacy Center back when that first started. And then when I worked at the Children's Hospital, we figured this out after the fact. She was my boss way back then. She was doing that and she also ran Child and Family Services here in Southern Alberta. So she's just, she understands those connections with government and agencies and how to get people working together in ways that they maybe haven't before. So we have this collaboration with more than 100 community agencies and stakeholders that are working together and creating what we're calling our integrated community response model. So when those victims are identified, how are we going to do this? How are we going to wrap around the victim? You know, we've helped to organize and facilitate a provincial human trafficking network bringing together 40 different organizations here in Alberta to share information, expertise, best practices on a monthly basis.

So, and they've all expressed thankfulness for that because now they're not doing their own thing in their own little silo. Everyone's working together and there's the wrapping around survivors. Connecting with survivors and listening to their stories. You mentioned the human trafficking task force. I had the privilege and honor of being appointed as chair of the human trafficking task force here in Alberta by Premier Kenny, our former Premier Kenny, or wherever we are with that whole thing. But that was, I was very thankful that he prioritized human trafficking in the province, wrote a nine point plan on his own, and helped us to have the opportunity to bring 19 recommendations to the government of Alberta, which we turned in, and they've accepted

18 of the 19 recommendations with the 19th under review. So that was a huge success for us. And for me, the measure of success, we'll see how it's implemented, but the measure of success was because I had two different trafficking survivors text me as soon as the report came out, and they said, we feel like we've finally been heard. To me, that's the measure of success. If trafficking victims are saying we were doing this right, we supported alerts via Alberta Law Enforcement Response Team by helping to fund a new program where there's

crisis intervention and connections to services that are being coordinated with a safety network coordinator. And the list kind of goes on. You know, get the e-learning course, a strategic partnership with 211, the Seeing Yellow campaign, the Alberta Motor Transport Association and training people who are driving our trucks around because they're on the front lines as well. We've got a big announcement coming with Uber in the coming days here. So it's been exciting and it's been like drinking from a fire hose. Like it's been non-stop for the last five years. And there's also this little thing of country music that I do on the side here, you know, so it's been busy. It's been really busy.

Do I get to ask what news you have coming up with Uber? You can't spill the beans. Well, I don't want to spill all the beans, but I'm super excited. You know, such an exciting brand and such a really disruptive brand in the way that they've done what they've done and getting people to and from in a new way and using technology to do that. And I think that this is going to make another big dent in the business of human trafficking. and create safer communities here in Alberta and hopefully right across the country. Yeah, just on the, it seems so weird to call it a business, even though that that's how some people treat it, right?

You mentioned way back when you went to Cambodia, there was a California business guy that was going to do something there. I assume that law enforcement has identified who the culprits are of treating this like a business, who are the traffickers that are, like, is that something you can identify, like, just by looking at? Or is, are they, like, kind of like chameleons and you actually can't tell? You know, you have to know what to look for. And, you know, the police are doing a great job across the country. We're finding that there's shifts in understanding. And, you know, during the task force work, you know, anyone has access to the report that we did.

It's called the Reading Stone Report. and it's on the Government of Alberta website. And I was really, it was so exciting for me as a songwriter to shift my writing focus into a report like this. I worked with Bonnie Johnston on the report and with the whole task force. And, you know, one of the stories that I love to tell is about a young woman named Carly Church.

And Carly is an inspiration to me. If you ever have a chance to talk to Carly, if you want to dive deeper into the issue of human trafficking, get Carly to come and talk on your program. She was trafficked as a young person in Ontario. And she tells her story. I won't steal her thunder. She's just such an inspiration.

And but one of the things that I love about her story is that she eventually started working alongside the police in the area where she's living. And she talks about what it was like before she started working with the police when they would do what they call and knock and talk. So they would identify a hotel where trafficking activity was happening. And the officer would go in with, you know, I mean, pure intentions. They're trying to help, right? And knock on the door and the girl would open the door and he'd say, look, like, she'd have a black eye. What are you doing with this guy?

You know, you need to get out of this situation. Here's my card. Like, call me when you're ready to get out, right? Like, that was basically the interaction, right? And, and then, you know, you're Carly started working with them and she started explaining the psychology, the trauma bond, what was going on with that person who was being trafficked and shifted the approach. And so they'd knock on the door and Carly would be with the officer. And he'd say, hi, I'm Officer Stone, so I'm with the human trafficking task force. Carly's with me and she's a trafficking survivor. Could we come in and just chat with you for a minute?

We'll pay you for your time. That's the first step. And so now she knows she's not going to get beat up because she's going to get money from that interaction, right? So she's not in a place where she wants to slam the door. It's like, are you kidding? I don't have to be sold against my will and I make money for it. Yes, please, come in. Right.

And so they come in and the officer will sit over on one side of the room and Carly sits down with the girl and says, hey, do you like this work? So put it back in her court. Give her the control, right? And she'd say, yeah, I like this work just fine. Well, how much money you make? You know, $1,000, $2,000 a night sometimes? Wow. So do you have any other goals?

Anything else you want to do in your life? Well, I've always wanted to be a nurse. This is a true story, by the way. Okay. And Carly says, oh, okay, well, you know, we could probably make that happen. You're making a lot of money here. I mean, we can get you into the community college right away. And that's the first time that the girl realized she didn't get to keep the money.

So you're leading her through this. traumatic situation, right? And Carly goes, you know, and I see the needle over there on the bedstand. I used to be addicted to. We can get you help with that, get you to a safe location, get you food and some clothes and a shower right now if you want, if you come with us. They went from like a 5% success rate to a 90% success rate just by shifting the way that they addressed and worked with trafficking victims. And it's about that kind of education. We're starting to see things shift and that's rolling out across the entire country. And I think a real cause for celebration, you know, and to see that there is hope when we start to shift the way that we're

looking at this issue. Eighty-eight percent of trafficking victims say that they interact with a professional who fails to intervene on their behalf. And the majority of those professionals that they're interacting with are in health care. Because health care isn't being educated we don't want to look for. But as soon as we get there and shift, man, it's going to be an incredible thing. And I think we're on the way to seeing some of those things happen here in Canada. Well, I'm glad we got to that point because, you know, one of the things I always worry about with going down different rabbit holes and talking

about different tough subjects is it can leave a person lost in despair or what is the world becoming and all these different things. And then I listen to your story, Paul, and I go, hmm, there's the, there's the sunny day coming, right? Like, what you guys are doing is working. You're talking about this Carly Church. And that sounds like 5% to 90%. Jeez, Louise, that, now that is something to hang a hat on.

That's like, you never want a person to get in that situation. But no matter how they get there, the fact that an interaction can pull them out of it and move them towards, you know, maybe some healing, probably some serious healing, and get them out of that abusive relationship. That's really cool to hear. Well, and there's a metaphor here, I think, for all of us that are listening, you know, for anyone who's listening to the podcast right now, these last two years have been hard times.

And I think that we're headed for more. I think that there's more hard times that are coming, whether they're pandemic-related or otherwise. But, you know, you talk about these dark topics and it's, you know, I think people want to find escape. I don't want to talk about it. I want to get, you know, think about something positive and happy. But this is life and this is the way that things work. When we persevere, it creates character. And when you have that perseverance, that character, the depth of character, that's grit, you know, you start to get hope. You start to realize, ah, something better can happen here. And I hope that if you're feeling that way, you know, I know mental health is such a popular topic these days.

And it's one that we really do need to be discussing and being aware of. You know, I think we're just starting to see the tip of the iceberg of the mental health effects of what's happened with the pandemic. Hang in there. Reach out to someone. Have a conversation. Say you need help. These are all really important things. But keep going. No matter what, just keep on going. Because it will get. better if you keep on pushing. And, and, you know, I'm saying that from a position of, you know, just thankfulness that I am where I am doing the things that I'm doing, but also, you know, working alongside people in the work that we're doing with Not in My City who have been handed a raw deal, have been given some really horrible cards in their lives. And when we are able to kind

of take a step back from our own personal situations and look outward to what's going on with the people around us, some pretty amazing things can happen. And I really believe that that's what Canada was built on. And so those are the things that really make me proud to be Canadian is when we can take a step back, dig deep and keep on going. Yeah, I share your sentiment on that last point about the tip of the iceberg here after the last two years. I've said, I think I've mentioned this multiple times on the podcast, but mental health prior to COVID was really popular topic. It was, it was, you know, it was getting more and more light and everything else. And then the two years of COVID happened and it kind of just got pushed to the back burner in my eyes. Because that wasn't

supposed to be that, you know, there was one narrative, we need to be doing this. And if we don't do this, we're all going to, you know, die or whatever else. And what I saw happen to people that were healthy, good friends of mine, including myself, was mental health problems, like depression, like crisis of, and for myself and certainly for my friends that I saw it happen, having good people around them to identify it and just talk to them and get them talking again because we'd all been locked up for so long, I guess was crisis averted, right? It was like, and once you started talking and realizing, oh, man, I need a little social. I talk about this podcast all the time, Paul.

Through COVID, it was my lifeline. Because it allowed me to talk with, I'm an expert. I love talking to people. I love interacting. Now, would this be better, me sitting on the couch beside you and in person? Yes. But this is a substitute, and I enjoy this very much. For a lot of people, they didn't have a podcast.

They were, you know, they didn't have a solid foundation of friends and family or, you know, the divisiveness that our society got to was and is pretty extreme. And that right there is something that needs to be healed back together. And that is going to take time. And so when you talk about tip of the iceberg, gee, I don't, I worry about what that means moving forward. All I know is it takes good people around everyone. to identify, to talk to people, because as, as Wade Gartner was just in here, he's the guy who leases me, my, my, my, uh, my studio. And he was, he just smiled at me and, and, and because I was nervous, I haven't been nervous to have a guy on in a while, you know, and back when I used to have, you know, was having Don Cherry and those, you know, in Rahm McLean and different guys like that. I used to, yeah, I'm like, reminded me a pregame jitters, so to speak. So I put on a pregame song and sitting, I'd get kind of amped up.

And he just laughed. He said, well, Paul puts his pants on the same way as you do. And I started laughing. I was like, Wade, you're absolutely right. And he goes, you know, you never know what one word can do to a person's day, how it can change in effect. And your podcast certainly can do that. And your songs can certainly do that.

And when you talk about the tip of the iceberg, which gives me hope about that is a lot of things can be averted if people just identify and reach out and talk to people and be kind to one another. and that in itself can do a lot of healing for not only Alberta but Canada and everywhere else. Yeah, I heard a great quote early in the pandemic. I'm paraphrasing, but there's something to the effect of we're not all in the same boat, but we're all in the same storm. And I think it's a really important thing for us to be thinking about as we're moving forward

as Canadians, as fellow citizens, community members. you know, maybe you got a bigger boat than the person next to you. This is impacting all of us. And let's just keep our heads on a swivel there. Look out for the people who maybe need a little helping hand, a little bit of extra help, that leg up. You know, I think that that's a really important thing for us to stay focused on. And realize that it's also taking a toll on you, no matter how big your boat is, this is. this has been one storm that we're all going to remember.

And so, you know, give yourself the permission to be human in all of this. And that's been something, honestly, I would say it's been challenging for me because part of my job is to be that guy up in the spotlight, you know. And if there's anything that I want people to know is that you're right. We put our pants on the same way as everybody else. And so, you know, that being said, you know, You put them on and put the belt on and keep on going. You keep on moving and you look for opportunities to be able to take the things that you're given and help other people out to.

And yeah, it's been crazy. But I think that if we keep on pushing, we're going to do just fine. How excited are you to be getting back touring around and singing? I can't wait. You know, it's going to be great to see the band. You know, it's challenging because some of the my players can. to come across the border. A number of them are still in the states and they're not allowed to with the remaining travel restrictions. But, you know, we were able to put a band together of really

great guys that are stoked and it's going to be great to see everybody. I think seeing the fans and just hearing everybody sing along again is going to be a really cool part of all of this too. And I think music is healing. You know, I really believe that. I remember working in the hospital and having a music program and just seeing how that could shift a patient's day. Sometimes I'd even bring my guitar in, you know, and play for the kids. And that can really change the way that your day goes. And, you know, music can help you to escape. It can enlighten you.

It can entertain you. It can educate you. There's just so many different things that it can do. And I think probably what we're all feeling right now is we need a little escape. And that's okay. That's a good thing. So we'll get out there and play some questions. convoy and have some fun and I think it's going to be a blast you know I can't wait it's

going to be good you know it was it was uh you talk about music being healing last may uh the first ever bike for breakfast happened in lloyd where a group of yahos including myself biked from lloyd to tupinil saskatch when to see this guy called quick dick mcdick and and then we bike back and raised money for um i think it was about 33 34 schools it was the schools in lloyd minster and about a 57 kilometer radius of Lloyd. So you had Onion Lake First Nation there. You had anywhere from my hometown of Hillmon, Paradise Hill, yada, yada, yada, yada, all these small towns. And one of the events we had was as the first set of restrictions were releasing off,

which is hard to put your brain back to. But it was an open mic night at Fourth Meridian Brewery here in Lloyd Minster. And I remember people saying that their soul, was full. Like they were just, they were happy. It was just like so healthy. And I think, you know, live events coming back, whether it's the NHL, you know, when when the Oilers were playing the flames and, you know, the right team came out on top of that. Oh, don't start. But having live music and getting to see people like yourself back up on stage and being in groups of people again, And you forget how healthy a crowd can be around positive events and hearing live music.

I can't agree more with our social animals for sure. Absolutely. Like it's just it's not even, it's not even funny. Like how important that is to people. Yeah, I think it's as much a need, I think in a lot of ways is food and water. We got to be around others. And, you know, we sharpen each other. We challenge each other.

We have a great time together. And it's important. So, yeah, I think it's going to be a big part of the nation's healing is getting that music going again and getting people out, laughing and having fun together. Well, before I let you go, we got to do the final five brought to you by Crudemaster Transport. Shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald, supporters of the podcast since the very beginning. And believe me. I've given them some trying times for sure. Now, if you're going to stand behind a cause, these are Heath's words.

If you're going to stand behind a cause that you think is right, then stand behind it, absolutely. What's one thing Paul stands behind? It's one word. It's freedom. Now, is it freedom or free dumb? I'll let you decide. Now, I got a favor to ask before you rattled off your guitar at the start. I wonder, do we get to hear a tune as we exit out of the podcast?

That's what I really am curious about. Oh, man. Let's see what we got here. Well, this one, the first time I played it, may I'll do a bit of this one for you, was Williams Lake British Columbia, which is probably a poor choice of venue. I wrote this song in about 15 minutes, just thinking about home. And I never would have dreamed that people would play it even down in the States and stuff. I thought they'd play it in Lethbridge and Red Deer and Medicine Hat, you know.

But I played it at this, just to try it out on the audience, in Williams Lake, at their Williams Lake Stampede, and there's this one cowboy dead center. And nothing I did made any sense to this guy. He was not buying what I was selling. And he had his arms crossed and his hat down like this, mustache out to here. And I got to the line of the song, I've been Alberta bound for all my life. and I'll be Alberta bound until I die.

And for the first time in the whole show, I see his beady little black eyes pop up, and he nudges his wife, and he goes, yeah! You know, and it was like, I'm thinking, okay, either this is going to be a bigger hit than I thought or that guy's from Alberta, you know, one of the two, right? So put it on an album, and it really has become a career song for me. And I think one of the highlights was when Queen Elizabeth came to,

to launch the QE2 highway and a bunch of other stuff for the Diamond Jubilee. I got a chance to meet her and I got a chance to play this song for her. And that was a pretty exciting moment. So it goes like this. Sign said 40 miles to Canada. My truck tore across Montana. Ian Tyson sang a lonesome lullaby. cranked up the radio because there's just a little more to go before I cross the board grass side.

Here we go. Man, I appreciate you, Hothron. This has been a cool hour and change. Really nice getting to meet you, Paul. I appreciate you busting out the guitar and everything else. And sharing some of your stories and your time with us. It's a pleasure. So nice to meet you.

And all the best to you, Sean.