Shaun Newman Podcast - #289 - Patrick Chester

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

He spent 15 years as a raging gambling addict, lost millions and resorted to criminal acts to feed his addiction, ultimately ending up in jail. Patrick has now been 7 years free and we discuss the push for online sports gambling.  Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Support here:⁠ https://www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast⁠

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He resorted to criminal acts to feed his addiction and ultimately ended up in jail. He's now seven years free of it. I'm talking about Patrick Chester. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Patrick Chester. So first, stuff, sir. Thanks for hopping on. Sean, thanks for having me. Looking forward to having a good conversation and should be an informative one, you know, about sports betting and gambling and all sorts of things. Well, when I read your bio, one of the things that's really been sticking out to me watching the NHL playoffs right now is like every commercial, not like three of four. It's like every commercial is about sports betting. You know, like, uh,

Bet 99, bet 365. There's one with MGM Grand now. It's just on and on and on it goes. And I'm like, geez, this is strange, right? Because I'm like, obviously gambling is an addictive thing. But hey, people could point back to cigarettes and a whole bunch of different things. But sports betting right now is a really, really cool thing to be doing. And you can do it so simply from your phone and everything else.

And so then I read your bio and I was like, ooh, this seems like a nice fit. So maybe Patrick, we could start with a little bit about yourself. And then just, you know, whatever point you want to hop in the story, I'm curious to hear it and we'll see where it goes. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, for me, I grew up playing sports. Love sports. You know, football was my thing.

College football grew up going to college football games when I started going. I was five years old. Played baseball, hockey, as a kid, basketball, all of it. Right. And so the, you know, when I got into my college years, you know, this is before online gambling, you know, I'm, I just turned 50 years old. So I was, I started betting, you know, when I was around 21, 22 years old before all the online avenues were there, you know. And so I was bet primarily through bookies and that sort of thing. And then offshore accounts and that sort of thing, too.

but what happened to me was I was just betting recreationally with friends and it was fun and it was harmless in my mind it was harmless but as somebody that's susceptible to addiction like I am that runs in my family and for people that are that are more prone to to addiction these things can sneak up on you and that's what it did with me and you know as I as I got into my late 20s and early 30s I started betting more and more and more and more and before I could read it. really, I understand it or recognize it. I had a full-blown addiction going, and I just couldn't stop all of my money, you know, the money that I should have been allocated towards bills and, and that sort of thing was now going towards my gambling. And so it was about that time, you know,

like I said in my early 30s where I started to realize, hey, I'm losing control here. Well, when you talk about, you know, you're just betting and, you know, and then it started to get out of hand. Like, are you talking, you know, like, I bet like three times a year. I don't even know if it's that much, but you get the idea. And my bet is like, I don't know, $10 over here, $20 over there. Like, I don't know, maybe even a couple bucks. Like, I'm, to me, I'm not really, I guess I'm curious. How does it get at it? Like, what are you talking about? You bet and you started out at $10 and then by the end, you're doing $500 or is it like, or is that even in the realm? So, yeah, so what happened? You know, when I first started, it was 50 bucks.

It was 75 bucks. You know, I've bet a football game once a week, you know, to me, not a big, big deal. But, yeah. So when it starts to get out of hand, I'm now betting four or five hundred bucks. I'm betting a thousand bucks. And I'm not telling anybody about it, right? So now I'm starting to isolate. I'm starting to keep it to myself because I think in the back of my mind, I know that what I'm doing is, it's not right.

So, yeah, it's taking money that should be going to, towards something else, whether it's 500 or 1,000 or eventually, you know, we can get into it at a minute. It got, it got to be way more than that. But yeah, that's when I knew it was a problem. I started putting $1,000 on games two or three times a week, as opposed to once a week. And then it's, then it's every day. And then it's, then it becomes this game of chase, right? If you lose a bet, if I were to lose a bet, well, I've got to get that money back. So I've got to double it up now, you know? And it just becomes this, this cycle. that I got into

that once I got into it was really, really hard to get out. You can just, I don't know, stop. I know that's probably a really dumb question to ask, but I'm like, I don't know, you're down like three grand, whatever the number is. I guess maybe how much did you get down?

Well, yeah, I mean, towards the end of it, I was over a million dollars. I was over a million dollars in debt. but at the end of my run, which we can get into it here in a minute. But yeah, you just said something very interesting, Sean. It's to the outsider, somebody that doesn't, hasn't experienced addiction or doesn't understand what addiction is.

This is no different in the brain. The gambling addiction is no different than the heroin addict or the meth addict or the alcoholic. It's, yeah, from the outside, hey, just stop doing it. You know, just stop. Well, it's beyond that. We're beyond that point now. There was probably a time early on where I could have just stopped. But as a full-blown addict, you're no longer able to just stop.

You've got to get professional help and figure out why you're doing what you're doing and why you're making decisions that you're making because you're sick. Your brain is a mess. Hmm. I'm curious. Today it's so accessible. I'm trying to go back 30 years and try and remember what gambling was. I'm only in my 30s, so I remember going to, you know, different spots here in Canada and doing sports line, which, you know, allowed you to bet a certain amount of dollars at, you know, like gas stations and that type of thing.

30 years ago, you talked about going to bookies and that type of thing. I assume once you start hitting those dollar values, you had to go to certain spots in order to even pull that off. yeah so like to bet a certain amount is that what you're saying yes like yeah what that's true you know you had to um right once you have you had to i had to mix it up and go different different places and go through different bookies and that sort of thing and then what happened you know once i got into my 30s then i started i was able to do it um through offshore betting sites you know so it was a little more accessible a little easier once we got to that point you know where I could just send my money to uh Costa Rica or Panama or something like that you know because

then I could bet the higher amounts you know then they were they would take my money and I could bet $10 or $15,000 on a game whereas before you know if I'm going straight through a bookie or something like that it was a little you know I couldn't quite get to that level but again I wasn't at that point in my in my addiction when I was betting through bookies. Once I was able to bet online through offshore sites, I was a little more advanced in my gambling, should we say? Well, in the early days, you wouldn't have been married, I assume.

I assume at some point you married kids. So in the early days, you're single, you're having a little bit of fun. Certainly we all enjoy a little bit of, you know, like gambling. I don't think is as long as it's under control isn't the end of the world. $50 here, $100 there. Obviously, you mentioned a million dollars, which is heavy. When you get married, none of this comes up. Right.

So this is when it starts to get a little scary. You know, when I got married, I got married back in 2006. And I would say at that point, my gambling was an issue, but it wasn't nearly to the degree that eventually got to, but I didn't tell my wife about it. She did nothing about this. And so as we kind of worked through the early years of our marriage and we had our first son in 2009, that's when things started to get really bad. And behind the scenes, I was taking money from our joint accounts and diverting that

into other accounts that had set up so that I could gamble with it. Okay. And so now I'm not only lying to my wife on a daily basis to cover up my gambling, I'm taking money that she thought was going towards investments and that sort of thing, that she trusted me to handle because I was out of control. And I was, the gambling had become all consuming with me, right? So from the time I woke up until the time I went to bed, that's all I could think about, how I'm going to get money to gamble with. And I was also working for myself during that period of time as a contractor.

Okay. And so when when a customer or client hands me a $30,000 check for a project, I was a general contractor. That's a challenge to a gambling at it. All right. My intentions were never to take people's money and hit the road. My intentions were always the best, but I had become so consumed with this gambling that I couldn't stop. And so I would take, for example, I would take a $30,000 deposit check from a customer under the on the understanding that that that. money was going towards the project that we had signed a contract to do. And I would take 20,000 of that 30,000 and dump it on a football game or dumping on a basketball game. And this is what started to happen.

And so I was doing the same thing with behind the scenes with my wife and our accounts and that sort of thing. And so as it progressed, obviously my wife was noticing that things were not adding that weird things were happening. And we were getting notices in the mail about, you know, overdrafts and all this. And she would ask me about it. And I would always cover it up somehow and misdirect or deceive or basically lie because that's what I did. I became a professional liar to cover up my gambling addiction.

And so, yeah, that's kind of how it started early on in our marriage. I have to assume, you know, I'm trying to think here. You have to forgive me. I toss $20 on a hockey game or a football game. It doesn't matter. There's a rush that comes even from $20. So I assume when you put $20,000 on a game, there must be an incredible rush when you win.

And when you lose, it must be some sort of like, I don't know what the word is, but it wouldn't be a good feeling. eventually, I assume that's what you, that you live for that, that type of feeling. Is that fair? Yeah, that's, that's accurate. You know, yeah, it's the rush. It's the dopamine in your brain, you know, anybody that's familiar with addiction and how that works.

A lot of it has to do with the dopamine in your brain and that's no different. Like I said earlier, no difference than what happens with a heroin addict or a meth addict or something like that. So, yes, there's a rush. You know, if I were to hit a $20,000 win, that was a. huge rush, you know? And yeah, those losses were crushing. And one of the worst things about it was, I'll just give you an example. You know, we're sitting around, this was, this was probably 2012, 2013. We were over at my wife's parents for Thanksgiving, you know, and we're watching a

football game. And I think I had $17,000 or $18,000 on this game. And it was the Dallas Cowboys, and they were playing somebody. I forget who they were playing. but it came down to the last play of the game and I lost. And we're sitting there about ready to have dinner. My wife is there. Nobody knows about this except for me. And I have to keep this in and hide it from my family and all of that. And my wife has no idea that we just lost the mortgage payment.

She has no idea that we just, I just took 10 grand out of one of our investment accounts and lost it. and as we're sitting down for dinner, I've got to put on a happy face and pretend like everything is great. You know, and so it's, it is a sick and twisted way to live, but I lived it for,

you know, for several years. All I could think of is last night, the Emmington owners are in the playoffs, right? They're playing the Colorado Avalanche. And, uh, they're down one game to nothing.

And they lose four nothing. And I got three young kids and I got a wife. I have no money on this game. other than I'm just that invested with the Emmington owners, right? Like, they have sucked for a very long time. So to see them be a competitive team in the conference finals, you know, like you wear your heart on your sleeve,

so to speak. And I'm grumpy because they're not playing well. And they're losing three nothing. And finally my wife, I'm trying, you know, in my head, I'm trying not to be angry,

but I'm angry because I'm launching the game and I'm just like, you know, whatever. I assume, You, when you say you became a professional liar, like, that's that feeling 17,000 times stronger, but now you have to put on this face of like, everything's all right. Like, it's okay. Like that must, that takes being a duck on the water to an all new extreme.

It was crushing. Yeah. And that's, you know, that we, maybe we can get into it a minute. But that was, that was kind of the beginning of the end, the last couple of years, because I was living that lie, right? And it's not just with my wife and friends. It's also with my son at the time. We had one son at the time.

We now have two. But, you know, not being the same dad every day, coming home some days in a good mood. Some days I'm just a lunatic, right? I've been out hustling money all day long and I'm losing money left and right. My son just wants his dad. And I wasn't mentally present at all. I was totally disconnected. I was just a, I was not a good father, not a good husband because I had been, I was

consumed with my gambling. And that's all that mattered to me. You know, and so, yes, you know, when I would lose those games and, and yeah, I had to put on a, I put on a happy face. And it was just, it was a farce. The whole thing was a farce. It was, it was trying to convince people that things were okay when they were, you know, and it's no way to live.

that's for sure. So when does it, what's the rock bottom? Like what, when you hit your lowest, like, you know, because this is, from looking at it, you being open and willing to talk about all of this, I assume things are better. And the fact, you're still with your wife, you have a second kid. What is, if you reverse time and go back to the lowest moment, what is the lowest moment? Like, what is like, oh, boy. Sure, that's a great, that's a great question.

And, you know, there were a lot of them, you know, and I would say probably my lowest, lowest, the lowest point in my life was towards the end before I had eventually got to treatment and then ultimately jail. That was actually, believe it or not, not my lowest point. My lowest point was before that one. I was completely out of money, had exhausted all resources, all avenues, no friends, no family, Nobody would loan me money anymore. I couldn't get any money anywhere. I took $9, believe it or not, I took $9 from my four-year-old son's piggy bank because I had no money and I had to go get some gas. I remember putting the $9 in the gas tank, sitting in a parking lot and staring out the window for, I don't know, it seemed like hours, trying to figure out a way to end my life, but make it look like an accident so that my wife could collect the life insurance. So these are the thoughts that are going through my head.

And that was my lowest point. You know, and then I remember coming home that night, my four-year-old son asked me where his money went. And I lied to my four-year-old son and said, I have no idea. I had taken his $9 that he had put in his own piggy bank because I was so desperate. So that's it. That's rock bottom. And then, you know, it wasn't about, you know, I think it was maybe two months later.

My wife found out my family exposed it. If they discovered what the root of the problem was, set me off to treatment. Then I ended up going to jail and we can maybe get on touch on that in a minute. But that was it. Yeah, that was rock bottom. You mentioned your wife doesn't know anything. She doesn't know that it's gambling, right? Okay.

So she knows there are problems at this point. You know, there's there are holes in the boat all over the place. There's water leaking everywhere. She knows that there are issues. but she can't pinpoint it, all right? Because you don't, again, you don't, with a drug addict or an alcoholic, you can physically see it on them, right? You can recognize, hey, you're not well.

But with a gambling addict, you don't see the physical signs, so it's much harder to recognize. And the gambling addict is going to lie and deceive and manipulate however they can to cover up the fact that they're gambling and they're using money and all this other stuff to feed their addiction. So she didn't know it was gambling. She knew there was a problem for sure. She just couldn't pinpoint it until the very end.

How about you mentioned your family exposed? Like you said nobody would loan you money anymore. So I assume at some point you were getting loans from family or friends. Is there nobody who had any idea of this or were there a certain group of people that had figured it out? Because I mean like you had to have had a friend or two that knew you gambled. Yeah, I mean, there were some friends of mine that knew I gamble, you know, but they didn't know that I had gotten to the point that it had gotten to. And they didn't know that all of the problems that we were having financially and all the other problems and my irrational behavior, they didn't know that that was the cause of it. Right.

So I had some friends that knew I gamble for sure, but they didn't, they had no idea that it had reached the point. It had reached, you know. And so again, we're just, we're. We become so creative with our lies that it's almost, you spend people in so many circles that they don't even know what to believe anymore. Right. And so I had told my wife so many different things. She didn't know how to know.

She didn't know what to believe. You know, and so at the very end, what I did was I think it was out of desperation. I sent an email to a family member just basically saying, hey, I need $50,000. to pay off some bills and this sort, you know, just, and that family member reached out to my wife's parents, and then they got involved, started doing a little more research and discovered that I had a family problem.

And then that's when they all came together and basically arranged an intervention, you know, where we all sit down in our room and they give me an ultimatum, hey, you're going to go off to treatment now, or we're out of here, right? This is, you're done. Your gambling days are done. And that was the beginning of, of the mess, really, because then it was, then my wife had to uncover all the years of bullshit, right?

All the lies, everything that I had hidden for years, my wife was now going to uncover. And that took, that took, that took months to kind of sort through that. Man, that'd be, okay. So you go to treatment. You got a wife who's uncovering like holy dinah. This isn't $1,000 over here, $1,000 over here. Like this is a big amount of money. Did treatment, I assume treatment helped?

But I mean, eventually you got to come back to the real world too. And I don't mean, I don't know. I just mean when I say the real world, I mean, eventually you got to come back to face the problems you've created, which had to have been really difficult, I assume. Right. And that's the problem with gambling. If it gets to the point like it did with me, okay, so yeah, I went off to treatment and I was able to sit down with professionals

who understood what was going on inside of my head. And all this, all the while while I was doing, making all these decisions and doing this, I'm saying to myself, why am I doing this? I know it's wrong. but why but i continued to do this and so what i what i learned in treatment and what they explained to me was okay well yeah you're sick you got a you've got a big time addiction and this is how you can get better and so we went through that process and that was only 30 days but

you're right once i leave there now what i've got to go back to the real world and as a gambling addict this is you know with a heroin addict or a alcoholic you can go get better but you're not you're not going home to a million dollars of debt right and creditors and, you know, law enforcement and all this other stuff that I had to deal with when I got back. I still had all this money to pay back. I had criminal charges that I had pled guilty to for defrauding my clients. And I was now three weeks away from going in for my sentencing for these crimes that I committed to feed my addiction. And so, yeah, that was.

was not the end of it. That was just the beginning. And so I ended up going to jail, which actually was a good thing for me because it removed me from the mess, right? And I had four months to sit in jail and basically just process what I had done over the last 10 years, 15 years, and try and figure out what I was going to do moving forward and how I was going to do it. So it's a long process. But once I left jail, I had a clear head and I had some clarity for the first time in years. And And I remember walking out of that place thinking, you know, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but I will do it one way or the other. I'm not gambling ever again.

I don't know how I'm going to get a good job because now I've got felonies on my record. How is this? How am I going to make my life better? And I didn't know. I didn't have the answer to that. But what I did do was I told myself that nothing was going to stop me at that point. I would figure out a way to get my life back, hopefully get my marriage back. And I was going to keep moving forward.

I didn't care if I had been judged by everybody in my life or not. I was going to do it. And so it was just a decision I finally made once I got healthy that I was going to do everything in my power to get my life back. I assume that's been, because once you get out of it, I assume you start to feel better. And once you start feeling better, I assume you, you know, you almost crave that, that feeling over the other one. because I mean, uh, not having to worry about outstanding debt going to jail,

cops coming, uh, you know, lying to your wife like lying. I'm, my wife will laugh me, but I, I'm a,

I can't keep any secret. Like I'm a horrendous secret keeper. I don't, I don't like it at all. I don't like the feeling, right? Like, I think about it way too much.

Like I, I don't think I'd be a great, anything that involves a lying because I just, I just can't do it. I'm like, I'm not. good at it. But I assume once you're out and you start to get that moving along, it would take time, but that time would feel pretty gratifying, no? Yeah, you said it well. I mean, the feeling I

have now and the feeling I've had ever since that moment I walked out of jail was just like you described. It's, it's every day, being just transparency, living my life the way I should have been living it where I don't have to think about all the lies and all the secrets anymore. I can just go through life and be transparent and go about my my day and not worry about all the stuff on the periphery, not worry about all the stuff, you know, all the things I had to deal with before. And it's a great feel. Yeah. I mean, to know that I've turned the corner and I'm never going back because the way I look at it is I only have one recovery. in me and this is it. I'm not going back. If I ever relapsed, it's over. So I've got my family back.

My wife, it took a long time though. I mean, it took a good year, year and a half before my wife even let me back into the house, right? Before I could even move back in with my wife. So, but it is. It's a gratifying feeling. It's a great way to live, you know. And, you know, like you said, fortunately for you, you're not a good liar. Because it's not, it's not a fun way to, you know, when you're sitting down at the dinner table with your spouse and you guys are talking about all your hopes and dreams, you know, and this is what we want to do and let's put money and let's save money and let's do this. And you're looking your wife in the eye and knowing that you're taking that money and gambling with it. And she has the, she had the trust in me that I was doing the right thing and I wasn't. That's soul crushing, you know.

And to be on the other side of that now is, yeah, it's amazing. Well, the one thing about that is this wouldn't happen overnight. Neither end of this happens overnight, right? You don't get better overnight and you certainly don't fall into this overnight. This is, you know, like to, I guess you've been going around and talking openly about this, right? And talking about addiction and maybe some of the stigma that comes with it. But to a novice gambler who's throwing five bucks here and $10 there, what do you, what do you? say to to because once upon a time that would have been would have been you patrick would have been

you would have been i mean way back when when it was just a football game what do you say to the the novice or the newbie that's just oh you know i just throw a couple bucks here it's not that big a deal and you know they got no wife no kids and they're they're just you know it's a little bit of play money and it's not that big a deal so it's a great question and there's a couple of ways i look at that you know there's there's i'm full aware that that people can gamble recreationally and it's not an issue for them. You know, like you said, I mean, there are people that will go to the track or once or twice a year and bet a couple bucks or they'll put a couple bucks on a hockey game

here and there and it's not, it's not an issue for them. What else, what I also say though, too, is that like you, and you alluded to it earlier, it's so much more in our face now and our kids are seeing these advertisements on these games. being fed this stuff constantly. And we don't, we don't educate our kids on the dangers of gambling. So that's, that's the main thing with me. It's like, okay, we talk, we talk to our kids about drugs and alcohol and they're bad and stay away from them and you have to be 21 to drink.

And, you know, but we don't educate them on the dangers of gambling because nobody, nobody, it's not recognized really as, as a problem. And it's, and it's going to be, it's going to get. so much worse because of, like you said, because our kids are being fed all of this. And it's always portrayed during these games when you see these advertisers. It's always portrayed as something that's fun. They don't show the people that are losing their ass, right? They don't show the people that are losing money.

They just show people winning money. And so it's that, right? It's just we need to educate our kids and be aware of what can happen. Yeah, well, it's stuck in. it reminds me you know i i don't remember big tobacco back in the day but you can go back and look at the ads they used to uh they used to do for smoking cigarettes let's just take smoking cigarettes as one right and now you look at what they've done to smoking i mean if you're going to have a cigarette you're going to look at lung cancer on the package and everything else and every video that comes

out is showing you the the horrifying um things that come from smoking and you just look at where gambling is right now and when you say it's going to get worse. Oh, no doubt it's going to get worse, right? Like, you can't. I hadn't thought about the kids because you're right. Like, uh, when they get hammered, you know, kids are so perceptive of things, right? They just, they're sponge at young ages and suck it in. And I, I, I want them to watch the hockey game with dad. And dad doesn't think too much about all the commercials. He kind of chuckles in his head at like, you know, but they got some, some, you know, I just look at MGM right now. They're, they're betting website. They got Wayne Grexki, uh, you know, who young kids aren't going to remember who

that is. And they got, uh, uh, no, shoot an actor and I'm forgetting his name, Jamie Fox. And I'm like, you know, and that's where it begins. And they got a cool little, you know, intro and everything else. And I'm like, it's going to sucks people. And eventually you're going to have, you know, I don't mean to, uh, three under the bus for your previous life, but you're going to have a bunch of Patrick Chester's running around. No doubt because, uh, listen, I know what. I know what, throwing $10 on a hockey game does, it makes it more meaningful. And all of a sudden, you're staring at it. But now, Patrick, like, I don't know if you've paid attention at all. Like, you can pretty much bet on anything. Like, who's going to score first? Who's going to

tie their one shoe lace up the other way? Who's going to run into the goalie? Like, it's put money, you can put these little side bets everywhere, which makes, if the game to win or lose was interesting, now every shift can be interesting. And I assume that's, that's going to accelerate this whole problem even more so. Yeah. Oh, for sure. You know, and it's interesting, you know, when I, after spending so many years gambling on games, right? And then I got better.

And then I went to my first football game after that. And I'm sitting there with my son. And I had mixed emotions because I was so happy to be just sitting there with my son out of game just to be out of game with my son and I didn't have any money on it. Right. that was that was cool but at the same time I'm sitting there and it's my favorite team plan and I'm like this this sucks like do people actually do this people actually go to a game and not bet thousands of dollars on the game on the outcome of like who's who does this

and I'm so I it was yeah like you said it's it it had more meaning obviously you know when you've got thousands of dollars on the outcome of a game you know or any any part of the game right yeah bet on the coin toss you can bet on the first quarter you can bet on anything so i had to kind of get over that and and it's taken it's been a process to be able to just watch a game for the sake of watching a game you know that's that's a that's a wild thought because i just i've always just watched a game to watch a game you know like i uh i i i understand what you say there and i i i'm sure there's a ton of people listening right now that that hear that and go i get a exactly what it means. But I, you know, I flick on a game and I'm, I'm invested just for the

entertainment value of the actual sport, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely it makes sense, you know. And like I said, for me, it was a huge adjustment to get out of that mindset of having to have money on the game. Do you, you know, I think of a Vanderkane. He's an Emmington oiler. I see you're wearing a cracking hat. So I assume, uh, when I bring up the name of Vander Cain. Maybe you know a little bit of his background. But like him having the gambling debts and everything in Vegas and all that, are you like, man, he just needs to talk to the right person.

But you got to think in the NHL, something like that would be, they'd be trying to give him the best. You know, like I've had guys like Theo Flurry and Clint Malarchuck and guys like that who had a different type of addiction. And the help they receive from the. the NHL is more than any of us will ever get. And yet they relapsed over and over and over again. When you see that, do you think, actually, I don't know, what do you think?

Like, do you think, no, actually, I'm just going to, what do you think when you see the professional athlete getting to that realm? Well, it's, it's, that's a great question. You know, I, I was just having a conversation the other day with somebody about Phil Mickelson. You know, there's some stuff coming out about him now that is staggered. You know, and I think we'll hear more about that here soon. But to me, it's, it's, you're right, though. A lot of these professional athletes have more resources, have more, more avenues to seek help, right? you know like you mentioned clint mollarchuk and i i spoke with him um a few months ago and

and so i am familiar with with with kind of his journey a little bit and these these athletes when they when they when they're drafted i you know sounds to me like a lot of them they they educate them all on on what the dangers are of especially of gambling you know and they do have more more resources to to work with but still when you get when you get you're sick like that and you, you know, and you have a full-blown addiction, all the resources in the world aren't going to make much of a difference if you're, if your brain is screwed up. You know what I mean? So you've got to just, you've got to get, you know, seek help, get professional help and not keep it a secret like I did for so many years.

Yeah, the, uh, the, the, the Phil Mickelson, well, yeah, like once again, I just come back. I feel, you know, I throw 20 bucks on on blackjack, let alone a hockey gamer. I just feel guilty. I'm just like, ah, I don't know if I don't like the feeling. And yet even though you can win money and I have won money. And then you hear of like Phil Mickelson and I always bring up a van der Kaine.

He's playing for the Oilers, obviously. And his story's been very public. Heck, you had at times pictures of him with just like stacks of money. And you just like, man, somebody needs to just remind like it's all good like he wants to go do it with his money what he wants to do but when you get down the rabbit hole of of where he is or you know and Phil Phil's an excellent one because I mean there's a guy who's made a ton of money playing golf and now it's coming out all these different things and you're like oh man like you wish well actually I don't even know if I wish

I just like what are you doing now uh you're you're I know in your bio, I talked about you talking to kids and being a little bit of a resource for people who are dealing with different things. And then on top of that, maybe even to warn them, your story here certainly will shed a light for different people. What are you doing now, Patrick, in order to help people along? Right. And so what I do is I travel around the country. and I speak at treatment centers. I speak with patients, primarily gambling addicts.

I will speak with drug addicts and alcoholics too, just about addiction and mental health and what that does to the brain. But I deal with gambling addicts primarily, and I try and educate them on the process of, and the road they're going to go down now after they're turning the corner and what they're going to face.

You know, one in five, I think it's one in five gambling addicts will attempt suicide. So, and the reason for that is all the financial carnage that we leave behind, you know. And so that's what these people are going to face when they get out of treatment. So that's kind of what I talk to them about, the process. And then I also do, you know, I'll speak at schools from time to time and speak to the children and not, not, you know, high school and college primarily. and just try and educate them like we talked about earlier on the dangers and the things that they're like you said you can bet from your phone i mean you can bet there are so many ways to do it and it's so accessible but just be aware of what can happen especially if you're you know

you come from a family that has addiction issues you know my father was an alcoholic you know and so it runs in my family and you could be more susceptible to it. And so it's all the, all the, the warning signs and the things to look for too as well. You know, if you're a family member, hey, these are things you can look out for, you know, and understanding that the attic is going to lie and deceive and manipulate any way they can to distract you from what's really going on. So it's not just the patients I talk to.

It's also, you know, concerned family members like, I don't know what to do anymore. or my son or my wife or my husband is doing this. And I can't really figure out what's happening. But, you know, it's all these things that add up. And it's educating them and letting them know, hey, these are things you can look out for. And I would think, you know, here in Canada, we're different than the states for the past two years in the pandemic lockdowns and everything like that. Certainly different states handled it different in the United States. but here in Canada, and I assume I can speak for, you know, some of what you've went through,

but the lockdowns were extremely difficult. And up here in Canada, we had some, we continue to have strange times, but not nearly as bad as what it had been over the last year, where people were isolated, were, you know, kept away from family, friends, that type of thing. And online gambling has become such a prevalent. thing. You know, I think back to when I was in college and, uh, you could play the online poker and poker stars and all that stuff. And I had teammates when I was playing college hockey that, that would spend, you know, get into an online tournament. And I, I didn't judge them at the time.

And now I'm just thinking, I wonder how that ever turned out. But, you know, like, they'd stay up all night playing online poker. And I'm like, at the time, I remember, uh, yeah, okay, you know, did you win? Uh, yeah, actually I did. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Carrying. on. I never really thought too much further than that because it was just, you know, like if I was into whatever, I have no idea. And it was going to take till two in the morning. I mean, I'm in it. Let's roll, right? And I enjoy a good poker game like most. You know, is there signs? Like if you're, if you're a friend or a family member of someone and you're worried about any of this, you know, especially after the last two years of isolation and,

and just, you know, like the increasing pace of being able to do this from your phone. So like you don't have to take a special trip to a bookie. You don't have to make phone call. Literally, everybody has a device in their hand that can do it. And honestly,

they'll give you free bucks to start an account with, right? So it's like it's a very slippery slope. For family members or friends, is there anything to like watch out for? I know you mentioned like the tough thing about, this addiction is it's, you know, it's pretty tough to recognize. It's really tough.

Yeah, it's really tough to, you know, again, you don't, you don't see it physically. But what you can look for, obviously, you know, the financials, you know, that sort of thing. That can take a while before that really starts to surface, right? I mean, it's, you know, for me, I was able to hide the fact that we were, we were losing money, hand over fist for a while. But that eventually comes to the surface. but it's the erratic behavior. You know, like I said earlier, you didn't necessarily see it on me physically like you would a drug addict or an alcoholic, but my behavior was really erratic.

You know, if I had won, I was in a great mood, you know, if I just wanted a $15,000 or $20,000 bet, you know, and I could pay some stuff off and dump some money in the account and make it look like things were good for a while. But then if I were to lose that, which I inevitably would, my behaviors were constantly changing. So that's one of the main things to look for is just erratic behavior and unpredictability, you know, mood swings, those sorts of things, you know, and especially from somebody that like me, I wasn't, you know, I was pretty normal, so to speak, you know, I didn't have mood swings before all this or anything like that. So my behavior started to change. And that's one of the

main things you can look for, you know, when it comes to gambling addiction. Yeah, I think that's probably, I don't know this for sure, because you're certainly right in the physical element of, like, you're not putting anything in your body, which will give you, you know, different things or smells or whatever else to look for. The mood swing thing, I find very interesting because, you know, in the middle of COVID, I had some, tough months where, you know, like family, friends, just like the, the fact that carried on and kept going and people, uh, people being divided so hard and there's a whole bunch there. But I know what you mean, you have a big win and you feel better. And you're kind of like,

ooh, yeah, here you go. Uh, for me, if at times, you know, you have a couple sociable drinks and all of a sudden you just feel better. And there's, there's an emotional uptick and there's a downtick maybe when you come off of that. And that right there, if you don't dig into what it is, I could see where that snowballs and carries on. And trying to, I assume communication is huge because even with, even with the ability to lie,

you can trip people up when they, like that doesn't make sense. That probably creates some anger, I would assume. I assume that people as they got closer and closer to it, there was probably more and more defensiveness from you. But once again, I just go like seeing people's erratic behavior, I think that really stems across a lot of things that are going to come out of the last two years. Oh, for sure. You know, and that's just, that's just compounds. Like you said, what we've all gone through in the last two years.

Yeah, there are a lot of, you know, behaviors and things like that that are that are, that have been affected and are changing and all sorts of different issues that are coming from the fact that we had to, we were on lockdown for so long and, you know, everybody's working from home. And, and, you know, when it comes, goes back to, to my situation and I think you just mentioned it, um, I was very defensive. I got very defensive towards the end, you know, and it's interesting because there were people on the outside of our family circle that did make mention to me of things that weren't making sense. They would say, well, this doesn't make sense or this doesn't make sense.

And it's important to note that the closer you are to somebody, like my wife, for example, we talked about this earlier. A lot of times it's harder to see what you don't want to see. You know what I mean? So you always want to believe your spouse or your boyfriend, your girlfriend, you always want to believe them. So when they tell you something, your tendency is to want to believe that, even though maybe in the back of your mind, you're thinking, wow, this just doesn't seem right. But if you're on the outside, a lot of times it's easier

to recognize what's, you know, that there's an issue. You know what I mean? Like friends of mine, you know, started to recognize, hey, this is just not making sense. You know, but sometimes it's tougher if you're, if you're close to somebody to pick up on some of these things. Yeah. I, I certainly. know what you mean. And as I watch the clock, and I know we have an impending time deadline, I just really appreciate you coming on and being open about your story. I have one final question that I want to get to, but before I get there, I want to make sure that I didn't miss anything through the story or any, you know, any thoughts you have, because if there is, by all means,

Patrick, fire away because this is, you know, addiction and mental health is something that I feel like, and I could be wrong, I feel like has really come to the forefront. Like, I mean, you go back 15 years. I don't think anybody was talking about this. It was certainly on society's standards, pushed to the back burner, maybe even look down upon. I'm not sure. But I feel like it's becoming more and more open and available to talk about. But in saying all that, if there's something that I've missed or maybe you disagree with that thought in general, by all means. No, I think you nailed it. There are a couple things.

I grew up in a time where my parents and most of the parents at that time took what I called the old school approach to addiction and mental health. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to hear about it. Let's pretend it's not there. Let's just move on with our life. if we pretend it's not, it doesn't exist, then maybe it'll go away. Well, that's not the way I go about it. And maybe it's because I went so far off the rails that I've taken the opposite approach.

I'm open about it. I don't preach to people. I don't preach to kids. What I do is I'm open about my story because early on in my recovery, I was able to make a difference in the lives of some people that were struggling with drug addiction and gambling addiction. and it's because of that that I am open about it. I mean, I'm not, I don't enjoy talking about all of the things I did to feed my addiction.

I don't enjoy that. But to me, it's necessary. And it gives me a sense of, um, accomplishment, I'll say to be able to help somebody as opposed to, you know,

spending so many years taking. I'm now actually able to give in a way that I never thought possible. And so I think it is, It's important to talk about this stuff. Addiction, mental health, and you're right, it is, mental health is, is, people are more open to talking about it now, whereas before 10, 15, 20 years ago, you know, we just didn't talk about any of it. But for me, I talked about gambling addiction because that's my story, but also to

people aren't talking about that enough because it hasn't. been brought to the forefront. It's just, it will in five or ten years. We're going to see a lot of these kids grow up and they're going to get in the college and they're going to be full-blown raging gambling addicts. So my purpose and my point is to talk about this now in hopes that it can prevent some of that down the road. You know, and another thing, I don't know why I have this thought.

But even in like pop culture, movies, television, certainly the gambling addict isn't popularized, like isn't a popular character. And yet the story, I just think, I don't know what movies I'm thinking of, to be honest, but I think Matthew McConaughey was in one,

you know, like it always seems like it's a popular thing to do, sports gambling. Even when they're getting thumped on by the bookie or getting called or chased or anything like that, they always seem to come out on the, up and up, which probably isn't the case in that world. It's not the case at all.

It's, it's, yeah, it's in TV and movies, it's always portrayed the gambler and the gambling, just gambling in general is portrayed as something that's respectable. You know, you look at these, these, whatever characters were referring to in movies that, yeah, they always seem to come out on top or things work out. What you're not seeing is the majority of people that gamble lose over the long haul. I mean, if you're just going to gamble once or twice a year and, you know, bet on the Super Bowl and the Stanley Cup finals and that's it. Okay, fine.

But if you're going to gamble regularly, compulsively, like I did, you're going to lose. And these people that tell you that, you know, well, I've got all the secrets and I know I do all the homework and the research that that that's nonsense i mean it's a proven fact that if you if you if you keep betting i mean they're not building these casinos on on winners i mean these casinos are built because people are i mean how are they building these places in las vegas i mean it's not because people are going there and taking their money they're going there and giving them their money so it's you know it's it's a sick sick world you know and again i don't i don't begrudge anybody if they want to go place to bed or whatever. I mean, that's great. You know, and if you don't have a, if you're not

prone to addiction and you can do it, great. But let's just be aware of what can happen. You know, if you go off the rails like some of us do and things can turn bad really quickly. Let's assume right now, Patrick, somebody is listening and they were where you were not the million dollar part and certainly not the treatment part, but somewhere in the line towards there. What would you say at all? Just open up, talk to somebody about it. I mean, the thing I, there were many junctures along the way for me where I could have just owned it. I could have gone into my wife and said, hey, here's where I'm at. Here's what I'm doing.

It would have saved a lot of grief, a lot of financial damage down the road. But I did not do that. And that's my biggest regret. So if you think there's an issue, if you think you're having a problem with it, you are. And you need to address it. You need to talk to somebody, whether that's a stranger. a therapist, your wife, your friend, whoever, talk to somebody about it, let them know you're having an issue and you're struggling with it because if you think you are, you're already

past that point and you need to get on top of it before it becomes, again, before it becomes too much of a problem. Well, with five minutes to go, I'll slide into the final five brought to you by Crude Master, shout out to Heath and Tracy McDonald, who've been supporters of the podcast since the very beginning. It's a simple, wow, it's not a simple question. It's a difficult question to answer. Heath was on the podcast and he said,

if you're going to stand behind a cause that you think is right, then stand behind it, absolutely. What's one thing Patrick Chester stands behind? I stand behind recovery. You know, a lot of us know a drug addict or an alcoholic that was able to get treatment and turn their life around.

You know, there's a lot of shame. There's a lot of guilt associated with, addiction in general, especially with gambling addiction because of all the stuff we've talked about. But once you get past that shame and that guilt and you believe in your recovery, be proud of it. Don't be ashamed of it because for me, when I first got out of jail those early days, I was afraid to go to the store for a while for fear of running into somebody that I had lied to or taken money from or whatever to feed my addiction. And that's the shame part of it. So once I got

past that. I said, you know what? My life is going to be better if I stick to my recovery and work the plan like I know I can. And I stuck to it. And here I am seven years later with a great job, two kids, an amazing wife, and things are great. So take pride in recovery and don't be ashamed of it because, you know, you can turn your life around. Well, I appreciate you hopping on here and give me some of your time, Patrick. All the best to you in your end of the world. And yeah, I appreciate you hopping on. Sean, thanks. Appreciate it. Have a good day. You too.