Shaun Newman Podcast - #290 - Dan Bulford 3.0

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Dan is a former RCMP veteran. He spent the last 8 years on the Emergency Response Team in Ottawa where his primary duties were supporting the protection of the Prime Minister. We discuss Tamara Lich, moving to Alberta & if Alberta's Police Force is a good idea. Dan has also appeared on episodes #217 & #250 Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Brian Pekford. This is Julie Pinesse. This is Zubi. Hi, it's James Scha. This is Cabey Richards. Hey, everybody. This is Paul Brandt, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Monday. Hopefully everybody's weekend turned out to be whatever you wanted it to be, because I got it on links, folks. I finally got to do a little bit of golfing. I haven't done a whole heck of a lot of that. I buggered up my knee, and it's been a slow climb back. But I got on the links, got to hit some. and balls and enjoyed myself and for today we got a great one on tap for you but before we

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Here we go. This is Corporal Daniel Beaufort. And this is the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by a reoccurring guest, Mr. Dan Bolford. So first off, sir, thank you, sir, for hopping on. Oh, well, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure to be here right now.

I'm just changing my name. There we go. How things been on your side? Well, busy. Admittedly, I had to pull back from some of the, let's call it, freedom movement type activities I was involved in because we have some major changes in our life happening right now. We're selling our home in Ontario.

and preparing to move back to Alberta. So that's a big. Alberta will be lucky to have you, Danny. Oh, well, thank you. I know I have a, I seem to have a pretty solid support base out there, especially in my home region. So it'll be nice to get home and reconnect with my family and friends

and just decompress a little bit from the last, I'd say probably the last year was pretty stressful overall. Yeah. and looking forward to getting on with life, right? Like I know there's still lots going on both nationally and internationally, but I'm ready to, I've accepted the fact that I'm no longer a police officer and nor do I want to be one. And I'm ready to move on to my next career path.

You know, that's, I'm happy to hear that you're moving on. I'm also sad to hear that you're moving on, right? Because I think a lot of us go, and I don't know, in the brief time I've known you, although now it's starting to stack on the months instead of just weeks, right? Someone with your skill set and ability to maybe take a step back and look at a situation for what it is. I mean, geez, the last couple of years have been something else. To lose you out of our police forces is kind of hard to take because I think we'd all, enjoy if you stayed. I know there's going to be the naysayers who are screaming loud, but they've

been screaming loud at all of us for a long time, you know? And to hear that you're moving on, whatever you put your head and heart into, I think you'll be great at. Oh, well, thank you. I, uh, yeah, it'll be a big adjustment. Um, but I'm, I'm at that crossroads right now of do I use my training and experience to pursue something in the private sector? You know, there's plenty of employment opportunities in that regard, or do I go a completely different direction and learn a completely different skill and go into something different? And I haven't 100% made up my mind on that, but I know going back home to Alberta, be able to be with our family and friends, and there's plenty of employment opportunity out there. So I can, I can sample. I don't think you'll have an issue.

I don't think you'll have an issue at all. No. There's going to be tons of people listen to this that are just chomping at the bit. I'm sure I'll be getting hammered by a few different messages, wondering, you know, if you want to come work security at the next local, whatever, store, etc. You can come, you can come hop on on the podcast, Dan. You can be, you know, you can be either the Jamie or maybe I can be your Jamie. You know, we could just work it that way.

Hey, man. The world is our oyster. I'm wide open to the possibilities. Although we do have a bit of a plan that if, you know, depending on what the world situation is like and borders are like that after we've spent some time with family, we would like to try and take our kids on a trip and go, you know, take them on a bit of an adventure because it's been a rough go for them, right? Like leaving their, leaving their friends, leaving their hometown, because this is really

the only place they've grown up. And so we kind of sold it to them like, yes, we're leaving. It's a major disruption to your life, but we're going to try and go on an epic adventure, right? So we're hoping to be able to do that as well. Well, an epic adventure is what probably everybody needs right now. I know getting out with the, we're off the top. We were talking about how I'm on vacation right now with the family. It's been a bit of an adventure.

and I certainly had missed the happy days, you know, where you just get to tour and everything seems, you know, the sun's shining, the people are smiling and everybody's happy. And the kids get to be happy. Being around kids and laughter and everything else, it's been a ton of enjoyment on this side. So if you get to do that, I'm sure it'll breathe life back into you for sure. Yeah. And that's what we're hoping for, like a recharge, right? because, I mean, not to play a victim or be all woe as me, but like, I just don't feel,

I just don't feel welcome here anymore, right? And I actually find that when I'm out in public sometimes, I'm like, it's just simmering under the surface, like this, this tension and this almost this borderline feeling of hostility. Like, I'm just waiting and expecting for someone to come confront me, you know, because they recognize me from my involvement with the convoy or something, you know, some of my speaking out against mandates. And I just, it's, it's toxic. It's toxic to be constantly living in that heightened state of anxiety. And so, yeah, I'm ready for, I'm ready for a break for sure. Well, Alberta is getting, is getting a great individual. Like I say, I don't think you'll have any issue out here. I think a lot of people will be

excited to have you out West. You know, another person from out West is Tamara Leach. And she's been I don't know. I just, I've been trying to keep up with this. Like, you know, you follow like, okay,

she broke bail and now she's, and, and there, and now she's over there. And he's still holding her in jail. And I thought, why not have a guy who, you know,

with your background, come on and try and help me understand, help the listener understand, what on earth is going on right now? Well, I mean, to me, it's abundantly,

clear that this is 100% of politically motivated prosecution. And so she was held in custody initially, along with other people who were arrested and have been charged with the convoy for like extended periods of time for charges that would normally never have you remanded for that length of time, if at all. I was fully expecting everyone who was arrested to be almost immediately released on, you know, conditions like the very next day or same day even. But, you know, this most recent breach allegation, you know, the judge who ruled that she could attend the event even said that we are not the thought police.

You know, it was obvious that there was counsel present at the JCCF event, considering the JCCF is legally representing her. and nobody gets a warrant extended period. Like an Ontario warrant would never be extended to Alberta for a breach allegation, right? And certainly not, you would never see, you've never see a Canada-wide warrant sought and issued for one count of failing to comply with a release order. You know, those are, my experience has always been that I used to encounter people that were wanted all the time from different jurisdictions. Like even BC and Alberta when I was working in the Yukon, the vast majority of the time, those warrants were never extended. Warrants are only typically extended or Canada wide, especially if it's extremely serious offenses like murder, things that are national security related.

you know and and most of the time it's because it's it's too much time and money and resources to try to deal with the person arrested go through the process of transporting them back back to the jurisdiction that issued the warrant so i mean i've heard a couple of conflicting numbers i've heard two homicide detectives i've heard four homicide detectives i suspect at least a a minimum of two, traveled from Ottawa to Medicine Hat to take over, or Alberta to take over custody of Tamara and bring her back to Ottawa to hear this allegation. And that is, every police officer in Canada would know that that's unheard of and that that's like a massive, massive departure from the norm. And then to further have her continually remanded into custody for

one alleged breached, one alleged breach, which through some very basic investigation methods would have confirmed it was unfounded. It's unbelievable, Sean. And I'll give you one brief example in comparison from my time spent in the north. When I worked in Yukon, there was one very violent repeat offender that I dealt with on a regular basis. And he terrorized his community when he was not in prison. And I'm not, you know, he probably had a very rough upbringing. I don't know his entire backstory. But regardless, he had over 80 plus, I think it was 81 or 82 criminal convictions on his

criminal record when I was dealing with him. and a number of them were for serious violent offenses. Like really serious. And he, in one instance, I stumbled across him at nighttime on patrol. He had just, there was just an encounter in the roadway where he threatened to kill someone. And I just happened to come across it. I ended up arresting him after a short foot pursuit where he turned to fight with me and then we squared off and then he eventually gave up. We never did end up fighting.

But I held him in custody overnight for a bail hearing over the phone with a JP. Sorry. I actually prepared the court package and prepared him to transport to Whitehorse. So we had like a little relay system between the detachment so we could ferry people down to Whitehorse to go to court before the JP or the judge the next day. And so here's a guy who, you know, repeat violent defender, huge criminal record, many convictions for violent crimes. A lot of convictions that hadn't even been shown up on his record yet because of backlog in a CPIC. That's the database entries being made. and he went to court that next day, pled guilty to the breach, and was sentenced to one day time served.

That's what he received. And so he was right back. He was right back to town. So one day time served, despite the fact that he's shown an entire lifetime of violent repeat behavior. Well, that was one of those times in my career where I was like, what am I even doing this for? Right. I could have just put him in the cell overnight, released him the next day when sober, and it would have been the same result with, you know, a fraction of the time and energy

and resources put into it. Like you mentioned you square off of this guy one-on-one, right? Never come to blows or anything. No. But I mean, you're talking about it. That's because I pulled out my baton. When he squared off to fight with me, I pulled out my baton and then he just got down on the ground. All I'm getting out of Dan.

I'm thinking the adrenaline must have been going. This isn't you squaring off against Tamara Leach, right? No. This is squaring off against somebody who has a little bit of a history. A major history of violence. That isn't your everyday encounter. No. No.

And then my very last encounter with that same individual, he stole a high-powered rifle, was walking around town telling people he was going to shoot up the band office and the RCMP. I had to get my family to shelter in the basement and advise others in the area to do the same because this guy's house was probably about 200 meters line of sight, direct line of sight from my RCMP house that I was living in. And so I had to warn the other families and people that were working in the near by area. I had to warn the people at the health center and the village office. It was me and one other

member who was a reservist that was working with me. Thankfully, he was like a long time switched on general duty police officer before he retired. So he was I was I felt good having someone like that there with me. And we ended up getting as we were setting up like containment on his on his house because that was his last known location. Um, I got. a tip that he was getting a ride in a vehicle. So we intercepted the vehicle, took him into custody. The reservist, while I worked on the court package for the prisoner, the reservist worked on the search warrant, the information to obtain the search warrant. We executed the search warrant, seized the firearm. He was also on a lifetime firearms prohibition. And he went, he was,

he was remanded into custody and eventually he pled guilty to a number of the charges. I can't remember exactly which ones he pled guilty to, but essentially he received about nine months. And so I never, I never had to deal with him. Again, that was right near the end of my time in the Yukon. But that by comparison to what we're seeing with, you know, Tamara, Tyson Billings, or known as Freedom George, who was just recently released. you know, Pat King, who's still in custody, you know, he's been in custody for what, over four months now,

roughly. And, you know, Tamara's, I think, spent an accumulated 48 days in, in jail for her allegations, you know, without conviction. I think, you know, likely, likely they've probably served more time than they would be sentenced to in normal circumstance, right? If the same standard was applied to them equally as applied to most other inmates or people that are arrested and charged through the legal system. So again, it's just another glaring example of how the enforcement and the crown pursuing this so doggedly is a major departure from what we would normally expect. And I mean, as a police officer, we often complained about the fact that no one really had to be, no one was ever really responsible for their actions. But here now, you have it, you know, you have the one extreme where, you know, people aren't held accountable at all, despite being like repeat violent defenders, dangerous to that, like, legitimately dangerous to their community, even their own families.

and then you have, you know, the political prisoners that were involved with the Freedom Convoy where really all they did was vocally criticized the government and, at most, inconvenience people in Ottawa with a large number of trucks being parked, making noise. it's i had already become even before i left the rcmp i was pretty you know it's easy to become very jaded when you work in that environment and you see the the way that the system operates and now it's a whole new level right because the whole cliche rules for the not for we it's evidently that that's true that's the case and I think, unfortunately, there is a major loss of faith in the Canadian police and the Canadian courts from the public, from like millions of Canadians that probably beforehand were still supportive of law and order.

And I think now they've just their actions throughout the last two years with, you know, COVID enforcement on like mums trying to watch kids play their sports, people with, you know, being tackled for not wearing a mask on an ice rink. You know, all of these made these high profile events that we've seen along with, you know, the way that the convoy was taken apart and the politicization of the prosecutions against people associated to the convoy, including Tamara. that that is, you know, people who would have normally been very supportive of the police are probably now skeptical. They've lost faith in the Canadian police officer, right? And I've had that told to me over and over and over again. People will come to me expecting that I have some kind of influence still within the system that I don't have because, I mean, the RCMP doesn't care what Danny Bulford says anymore. more, if they even did it all when I was working.

And because they don't, they don't trust that they can go to the police service anymore to make their complaint. And so, like, they're, you know, out of some level of borderline desperation, they're, they're looking for someone, anyone who's willing to actually listen to them and take them seriously and listen to their concern. And it's, uh, it's sad, man. Like I know from my time there, there's a ton of great people that still work in that profession. I work with some of the best.

And but they have a lot of work to do to rebuild trust within the Canadian public. Right. And I mean, this is something I've said a couple of times and I think it's worth repeating. Like two years ago when, you know, the, let's call them the, the, the, the Trudeau type government supporters were chanting defund the police, abolish the police. People who were associated to the convoy were the people who were saying, like, that's ridiculous. You can't abolish the police, you know, back the blue, right? And now they've really damaged that relationship.

And they have a major monumental hill to climb to rebuild that trust. and to rebuild that relationship. Well, that, you know, over the last, I keep saying two years, but it's getting longer than that. But there's been a lot of trust eroded in many different facets. It's not just police, you know, it extends to lots of the major professionals, right? Yeah, absolutely. Like, it's just trust has gone everywhere. Nobody trusts anything anymore.

And a lack of trust or the ability not to believe in anything anymore is, a danger in itself, right? Like, I think when you mentioned you worked with a ton of good people, it's like, I think there's good people in every profession, right? And I have people try and paint teachers. My wife's a teacher. Try and paint the teaching profession as they're these horrendous people. It's another lie. Like, I know tons of them. They're great human beings. But are there some bad characters? Yes. And is there some bad characters high up that are pushing things down? Yes.

right like but what do you do about that i i don't know well here's something i heard recently and i think it's very true it was uh brett weinstein and i think he was talking i was in a podcast i was listening to him and his wife heather uh on the obrey marcus podcast okay and he said there's an epidemic of cowardice and i think i think that's true and i think it's um You know, it's hard. It's really hard to go against the grain and to speak out against the mainstream narrative that's being pushed. You know, whether you're in public health, education. You remember the, you remember the Jordan Peterson interview with the lady from Britain where he says, I got you. Oh, Kathy Newman. Yeah. Thank you. Of course. Yeah. I should know that from last name is mine. Anyways, the reason, well, I'll throw this at you. I like. I like. the idea that there's a pandemic of people not standing up. Cowardous, just unsure their ability to be attacked and withstand it and use logic and words to explain their position over and over and over again.

There are very few people like Jordan Peterson that can sit there and be attacked for, like, how long is that interview, 25 minutes? And she just keeps going Adam and Adam and Adam and until she speaks herself into a where she's pretty much just eaten her own like, like is literally eating herself in the argument.

And that is a skill set that has to be worked on over and over and over again, I would think. And in today's world, we're just, we don't converse that much. We don't debate things anymore.

And so it's hard to put yourself in a situation where you're going to be attacked and not attacked on your ideas, but even personally, attacked all that is very uncomfortable it is absolutely yeah um and so when you you kind of like the the end part of your question was that so what do you do about that i think the answer is that like a lot of people are conflicted about what's going on they see what's happening

they know what's wrong but they're nervous to step forward and say anything because of fear of you know, job loss. Social alienation is a big one, right? Social pressure. They don't want to be put into that, oh, you're an anti-vaxxer or you're, you know, you're anti-masker. Right, you're one of those. You, but I think that's the only way that we can address the issue and to start to kind of

heal as a nation is to be honest with each other. And we can be honest and still be respectful to each other. And as far as like when it comes to the job loss and the social, social alienation, well, you don't have to start putting your face out there publicly, right? Like I did, but that was kind of like a collective decision that we made within the Mounties for freedom that we felt someone had to. And I volunteered to be the guy. But internally, internally at work, you can speak up. And I think, you know, one person speaking up gives another person courage to speak up and it can snowball from there.

And then you're kind of, you can, you have much more collective strength internally than you do as an individual, right? And the, I think for major institutions, well, I'm speaking from the RCMP perspective anyway, that they're going to be hesitant to bring the hammer down. if you're keeping it internal because they're not going to want that more publicity, right? Like I think I'll just come out and say it. I think me speaking out was an embarrassment for the RCMP, right, especially with the fact that I was so closely tied to protection of the prime minister of Canada. And so, but internally, I know that there's hundreds, probably thousands of RCMP officers

that do not agree with the COVID enforcement, but they're unwilling to voice it for fear of what could happen discipline-wise. Well, I think that the force would be very eager to keep growing displeasure within the ranks quiet and out of the public sphere, right? And so this might be a bit cliche, but you know that, remember that episode, or sorry, not episode, that scene in the movie Rudy, where the entire football team goes in and hands in their jersey out of protest until the coach allows him to play because he was promised an opportunity

and then the coach changed. Yes. I mean, maybe I was naive, but I was kind of hoping that me speaking out along with the Mounties for Freedom and the open letters, you know, bringing this out into the public mindset would kind of generate one of those moments,

right, where it's like, hey, if you push some of us out, you push all of us out, right? that camaraderie that's supposed to exist within law enforcement. And unfortunately, we didn't see that from my profession or any of the other professions

until the truckers and now in other parts of the world, the farmers all like starting to rally behind each other and say, no, you're not going to do this. You don't control us. You don't own us. But I think that opportunity isn't lost completely, right? I mean, the narrative is crumbling. and more and more information is coming out that this was a complete botched response and that likely government and public health officials knew that some time ago.

And, you know, so I think, you know, there's a growing dissatisfaction with the way our government is handling, well, the entire COVID response. But, you know, it's not just limited to that anymore. right, like the food, fuel, inflation, all of these things, cost of living, it's all starting to mount. And so I think now is a very ripe opportunity for people to start voicing their displeasure internally and coming up with solutions as to how can we fix this before it gets any worse, right? How can we start to repair the damage that has been done instead of just, well, that's the way it is. What do you do? And just.

just allowing it to continue to degenerate. Yeah, I was going to say that for a lot of people, they've worked way too hard to give up their career to stand up for wax-wise. It doesn't matter. Me and you have a little different thought process on this. But I always said one of the things that stuck out to me about you and Eric Payne, Dr. Eric Payne, who's been on this show multiple times, was you were two young guys at the peak of your career working your dream job.

and talking publicly. That's what gave you so much power, right? You weren't an older doctor talking about, you know, this and that. You were, well, Eric Payne is at the Children's Hospital in Calgary. You were on a detail with only, I don't know how many guys get to, but not very many. Like you were on the top. And for a lot of people, they were nervous about that. You know, I'm a professor.

I'm a whatever. I'm a this. I'm of that. And to talk out was terrifying. But I agree with you right now. I think it's ripe to voice displeasure. And we'll wait and see what happens here over the coming months. But I mean, they're talking about masks coming back, you know, like random testing at airports is coming back.

They just announced that Moderna, six months to five-year-olds has been approved. I don't know where this leads us because I agree with you when you talk about the narratives having holes in it all over the place. It's not even funny anymore. Like it's just it's almost laughable that it's being pushed as hard as it still is. Well, if they continue to stomp on the population, I liken it to stomping on a rake. It's going to continuously come up and smack them in the face, right? And I heard one guy say that the only reason Canada hasn't stood up on mass yet is because it hasn't endured enough pain. And I think he's right, but I hope that we can recognize it before it's too late, right?

That like, I hope we don't end up in a depression. I hope we don't end up, you know, getting pulled into like a worldwide conflict when we are such a. divided nation because we're weak right now. We're weak as a nation. Our economy is collapsing. We're very divided. And so if, let's say, worst case scenario, World War III did erupt, that's a major problem for the West right now. And not just Canada, right? Like the major Western powers are all kind of eating themselves right now with what is happening. With everything that's going with everything, right? It's not just what's related to COVID. but I mean, that's, that was kind of the, just really, I think, exposed the, the degeneration of multiple major institutions that are supposed to be there to look out for the best interest of the country.

Well, what you worry about, or I shouldn't say what you worry about, what I worry about, you know, like, I'm, I'm trying to understand all the things in the economy because there's just, There's so much going on. Like, there's just so much going on. You know, we always come back to COVID because one of the things that was that happened was they pretty much shut down the economy overnight and then gave everybody money and told everybody to spend and, you know, locked everybody up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now, well, what happens? Well, I wasn't 100% sure what was going to happen.

You know, you got some ideas like this can't last. This can't be good. Well, I mean, whether it's inflation and where it's at, the government of Canada, raising the base interest rate, etc. All these different things starting to, you go,

well, that isn't going to be good for a lot of people. Like, how are they going to pull this off? You know, to the,

to some of the things you're hearing on the farmer side of it with, with, you know, harvest costs and input costs.

And, you know, it was only last week, Sri Lanka had the massive protest over organic farming and basically decimated their economy and you're seeing that unrest. You're just seeing unrest. You know,

maybe, maybe I'm, a little naive to think that it wasn't there before, but it certainly feels like it is on just out and full display right now. And it just isn't Canada. It's literally all over the place this is happening. Yeah, yeah. And like you said, there's so much information all the time about so many issues that it's,

it's almost impossible to try and keep track of all of it. so I guess I just focus on what you know and try and speak true right like and and and find your voice right even if it's just at the one of the face-to-face individual level with people that you know that you interact with I think a big reason why we have gotten into this mess is because we've continuously remained silent for so long and I'm guilty of that too I I I I avoided confrontation, not in my work, obviously, but in my personal life with family and friends, you know, people could say things that I absolutely disagreed with. But instead of respectfully voicing my disagreement, I would just kind of nod my head and be like,

or, you know, there'd be that awkward silence where you're just like, I don't agree, but I'm just not going to say anything because I don't want to like cause a riff, right? but, you know, we just, we let that get so out of control in so many different ways that now, now we're stuck in a really hard place where we have no choice but to confront these issues that have become, you know, a mountain as opposed to dealing with it when it was a very manageable mohill. Yeah, but you said the right word there, respectfully. Respectfully, yeah.

I think, you know, some of the stories I've seen and heard from friends and family that I certainly know in different professions. Normally the one's speaking up right now. I shouldn't say that. There's lots of respectful people. I go back to you and Eric Payne. It's some of the things that's really intrigued me about your young guys who speak well and are respectful and aren't, you know, shouting obscenities, you know, kind of thing. That needs to happen more, right? That needs to happen a lot more.

You can respectfully disagree. You don't have to lose your mind. You don't have to attack the person's character. You can literally respectfully disagree. It's okay. It's okay to disagree on things. Well, I mean, I think the main criticism of like, let's call it the woke mob is that they don't respectfully disagree. They go on the attack, right?

They attack with insults and yelling and they try and, like, they try and intimidate people into silence and compliance. And it's pretty effective. But the answer is not for us or for it's you're not going to win them over by using the same tactic tactic or you're not going to win over the critical mass of the population that we need by employing the same tactics. Right. Like people are, I'm turned off by that. Even if I've been to other rallies and the speaker gets up, they might be saying things that are. legitimate they might have good points but if they're like yelling and screaming the entire time i just that's not my thing i just i don't enjoy that i have to move away because it just that's

exhausting for me it just mentally exhausts me the so we we can't engage in the same tactics that we criticize the wolf mob for right um and i think well i'll take an example if you look in you know, people are probably going to attack me for invoking the United States, but whatever. When you look at United States media right now, the big, the big traditional mainstream news outlets, their ratings are tanking. They still have, they still get a lot of the air time and have a good amount of influence. But like the last, multiple people have told me that like viewership for the daily white, is way more significant than what you would get from like the big news web networks combined.

And I think, you know, I mean, the daily wire can be pretty opinionated about certain issues. But I think the strength of their program is that everything they talk about, they back up with evidence and fact, right? And their delivery isn't quite as hostile. But I think, you know, and I think that's why you're seeing such, I mean, this is not my idea, right? But I've heard many smart people talk about this. Like, you know, the mainstream media is fizzling away because they have engaged in like this nonstop selling of outrage and entitlement. Whereas, you know, podcasts and YouTube, other other platforms are taking over because people can, people have a,

you know, they have a thirst for like long form, complex conversations, as opposed to like the narrowing everything down to little sound bites that is designed to elicit maximum outrage. Yeah, well, the world in general, it's a very complicated place. So you go from just in our country, you go from BC to Newfoundland, you're going to experience not only different surroundings, climate, environment, all these different things, people and how they live their lives. Heck, take a drive two hours from a major city in Ottawa to the countryside in Ontario. You're going to find different people and how they think.

And so it's become very complex. One of the things about the corporate media that was, like on full display, not only just to Canada, but across the world is the same headline, the same talking points, filtered down across everything. Well, I mean, when you have only a few groups who own majority of them, I mean, in a crisis, you would do the same thing. I don't even look at that and go like, that's so crazy. I go, actually, that makes a lot of sense.

If Sean Newman owned 14,000 podcasts and he was having Dan Bulford on, he probably pushed some of that similar measures down to 14,000 podcasts. I mean, you want everybody to have a little bit of their own twist and turn on things because each area is different. I think me living out in the country relative compared to being in the big city of Vancouver or something, I probably talk to you in just in a different way. My background in hockey gives me a different feel than somebody, you know, I know you've been on Drew Weatherhead, right? He's a guy that has a BJJ background, right? He's a, he's got that background.

Plus, he fled with it. I shouldn't know if I should say fled. He took off with his family down to the States for six months. That experience, he has a sister who was Vax injured. That experience. All these things add up to his perspective being slightly different than shots. And that's just different people running a show different ways. You get a group or an organization that owns all the media across Canada,

and they filter down the same message, the same verbiage, across all their stations, and tell you whatever it is. that's a powerful tool and you're seeing people fleeing from that powerful tool because they're starting to recognize and that isn't what it's all made up to be and you're the rise of podcasts of alternative media on how they go about talking about things I think people for too long dad I think people have been told or viewed that they're dumb you know that they can't understand they possibly can't understand that and I keep seeing things the opposite way like my viewer I think my viewers are smarter than I am like I they give me such good ideas I'm like oh wow yeah I hadn't thought of that right

and they're grappling with complex issues and listening to this and taking a step back and I'm going listen to another and taking a step back and forming their views that way it's really cool to watch even for myself that's what I do right I never listen to Dan and go I agree a thousand percent with everything he just said but you can push my brain to think about things that I never thought about before and that's a good thing well that's how you learn right i mean you're probably going to learn the most valuable lessons in life from encountering people that you disagree with or that are you know it's impossible to be a master of knowledge in every field so you have to rely on other people to learn from. And the only way that's going to happen is if you're open-minded enough

to actually listen to what they have to say, right? Like you said, it doesn't mean you have to agree to everything that they say, but you listen to them. And then I think some basic principles of investigation are, you know, it's, it's no different from what a like a true investigative journalist would do compared to like a police officer investigator when investigating a crime. You don't just sole source your information from one source. You're always going to take steps to try and corroborate the information multiple sources. And the more corroboration that you have generally, the more credible the information is. And so kind of maybe I'm going a little bit off track here. But if you want to learn about something, you need to be open-minded. I think it's

really healthy to look at both sides of the argument and then seek out information that corroborates, you know, both both sides. Or, you know, I guess that's, that comes back to my experience with the whole COVID response and why I took the path I did is because, like you said, the messaging was all consistent, but it was just talking points with very little to back up those talking points beyond like the the talking points didn't it didn't mirror what you were seeing with your own eyes exactly right and so I went looking for alternative sources of information and that's seen I have like very abundant right the information was detailed it was abundant and there was multiple sources from different parts of the world right like

Like the Americans that I was listening to corroborated, the Canadians I was listening to, and the British and the different medical science experts from around the world, you know. I equate it to if you have an issue with your body. Just put it to whatever it is. You go to a doctor. You get their opinion. Hmm. Yeah. You go to a second doctor because you just want to hear what they have to say.

It kind of sounds the same, but they did open a question mark. maybe there's maybe a couple other things I could think of. And then you go to, you know, like how many different avenues can you go for an ailment in the body? Quite a few. And as a person, we're allowed to do that. We're allowed to go, whether it's a prescribed drug or eating habits. Like so many people talk about just changing some things in their diet and all sudden that their health gets better. Or it could be, you know, I think of stretching and different things like that.

for the body and all of a sudden you get some added benefits out of different things. All these things, or maybe it's work environment, right? Like stress and all that. As a person, that's what we get to do. We get to like take a step back and go, okay, I want to do these. I'm never going to believe wholeheartedly in one thing because there's so many different avenues. And nobody knows your life except you. You're the only person who knows.

No one single entity from across a country of 38 million knows exactly. how one person lives. And hopefully we're moving closer towards a little more of like local governance, like where there's strength in that because, you know, one of the things that I always struggled with right at the start is in little old Lloyd Minster. I wanted someone from our area to be like, this is what's going on and take all the fear away. Yes, this is a dangerous time, but let's, and they only wanted Saskatchewan to talk about it. I remember thinking, well, how does Saskatchewan know what's going on in Lloyd? How does Saskatchewan know what's going on in Hillmont, right?

Like, nobody knows what's going on in Holmont, except for Helmont, right? Like, that's a tiny little hamlet. And yet we move so far, we've been moving so far away from that, that it just kept getting stranger and stranger because one, like, centralized spot is going to dictate a province, a country. I mean, what are they trying to do? They're trying to push a world, right, where this is, this is the problems of world face. we're going to put in these solutions and blanket across all the countries of the world.

It's crazy. It's just crazy. I mean, here's a question for you. You move into Alberta. Alberta has been talking a lot about an Alberta police force. But the guy in that background, what do you think of that? Well, I think if Alberta went to their own provincial police force,

the vast majority of RCMP officers that live and work in Alberta would probably patch over. I think I the RCMP is having a very difficult time meeting any of their obligations, right? There's three main pillars in the force, right? There's contract policing, so that would be like your general duty, like what the RCMP does in the majority of provinces, like Alberta. You have federal policing so the federal policing exists all across the country but you know the big two locations are ontario and quebec but there's there's federal units all over the country and then you have the protective side which is a lot of the stuff i used to be involved in right protecting dignitaries and you know i think that i suspect based on some of the

things that I've seen throughout my career and especially recently there's a greater percentage of the population that is growing skeptical of the RCMP's ability to do all three mandates really well and I think that I personally think that an Alberta provincial police force would probably benefit Alberta. But that being said, it's going to cost you more. The reason that the RCMP gets these big contracts for like 20 years at a time is because it's a lot more affordable than your own provincial police force,

right? Because the RCMP is like renowned for doing more with less, right? They just download more and more responsibility on the members all the time. but they don't, they don't have the positions to make it sustainable. And so, I mean, it's, it's like everything, right? Like every problem snowballs over time, magnify, you know, it grows exponentially over time. You know, with all of the changes, the demands of police and, you know, from the public, from the justice system, from the government. They grow and grow and grow, but they don't have the man, the human resources to keep up. And, you know, I don't know if it's the grass is always greener.

I think, you know, in Ontario, my impression of the OPP is that they're pretty well run. But that's me as an outsider, right? I bet an OPP officer would probably have a lot of the same concerns about the OPP that I had of the RCMP. But I think the RCMP is, it's really big. and I think where the major disconnect for the RCMP would be all across Canada is that all the decentralized decision makers in Ottawa influence everything that happens across the country and like you mentioned earlier, they try and apply blanket solutions to regions that have very different needs.

And so that's where I think a provincial police force would be much better suited for dealing with that, the needs of that specific province, right? And one major criticism of the RCMP that I have that I know is shared by many is that a lot of the people who end up in senior management roles in Ottawa have never done contract policing, right? They've never worked in Alberta or Saskatchewan. They've never, they've done their entire career in federal policing. And if you've never done it, if you've never done contract general duty policing and, you know, in like a red deer or a Lloydminster or even like really isolated rural community, you can't, you can't have a full appreciation for what it's like to be that member on the ground dealing.

dealing with situations in those in a challenging environment when all you've ever done is like federal operations in Ontario and Quebec where you know everything is planned everything is at your pace right the only time you ever really might get your heart rate elevated a little bit is when you're like caught on a on a brand new you know national security investigation where there's like there is the potential for an immediate threat. It's not the same. It's not the same when you go to work every day and you like everything is all pre-planned. The majority of your work is pre-planned and it's at your pace as opposed to like responding to 911 calls and going to domestics and responding to sexual assaults.

And, you know, maybe you're the only member in your detachment for eight months and you're relying on reservists for relief or the neighboring detachment as backup, right? It's two totally different worlds, contract and federal. And so there's pros and cons to both. I think the big pro for an Alberta police force would be that it would be more tailor-made to Alberta. And you wouldn't, it would be like, you know, a lot of the people running for the leadership of the UCP are saying like, we're going to, we're not going to let Ottawa bully us around. Well, the same exists within the RCMP, right, but at a smaller scale. but it's going to cost more. But then I would go,

okay, it's going to cost more. But when you talk about the RCMP doing more with less, as they take on more and more, they can't keep up with it anyways, right? Yeah, the expectation is more with less, but in reality, are they actually able to perform more with less?

Right, and I don't even mean the crap on the RCMP. I just mean to say, like, for any organization, as you spread yourself thinner and thinner and thinner, chances are that you're keeping up with all the tasks are probably not exact, right? Like there's probably no way to even pull that off. Yeah, I don't think that's unique to the RCMP. No, it's not.

It's probably true policing in general. But definitely, you know, one of the things that we used to say all the time at work was like, yep, we're expected to deliver Cadillac service on a Volkswagen budget. And I mean, now, granted, some Volkswagen's can be very nice. But it was just like, you know, it was that same idea. Like, we're going to ask more and more and more of you, but we're not going to provide you more human resources, more training, more equipment. It's just just make it work. Just make it work.

Like, and that type of mentality is very widespread within the organization. And that's, again. The root cause of that is that we don't, we're in a crisis of leadership in the RCMP, much like we are in every other major institution. And we have very few leaders that are willing to actually tell the truth about what we can and cannot do and what's realistic and what's not. It's, they really want to appease their political masters, a lot of senior managers anyway. not all. I've met some really good ones. But, you know, the perception of a frontline officer is quite often the case that like, oh, the force cares more about the appearance of being good at what we do as opposed to actually being good at what we do.

Does that make sense? Yeah, well, I think, kind of a smoke and mirrors kind of idea. I think a lot of corporations want to appear to be good at everything they do. Mm-hmm. But that isn't just police. That's, I mean, that's, that's, everyone wants to appear. Your appearance is at this stage of the game means a lot. It means a lot.

Well, and, you know, the police are supposed to be independent. you know, politically independent and unbiased, but that's clearly not the case, right? Like, you know, we've seen recent media reporting that shows that that is very likely not the case. And I know... Are you talking about Nova Scotia? Yes, I'm talking about Nova Scotia. I mean, there's other examples, obviously, but Nova Scotia is the one that's really big in the news right now. Largest mass shooting in Canadian history.

That's right. And you just tie in Trudeau and I'm forgetting her name. You can fill that in for me. Bill Blair was the public safety minister at the time. Now him and Marco Mendocino kind of split responsibilities. And then Commissioner Lucky. And Lucky. The Commissioner of the RCMP.

And you just start to tie those together and you go, man, this is, this is ugly. Well, that was infuriating for, I mean, I my team was getting spooled up to go help with that when the earth team on the ground encountered the shooter and ended up shooting him at the at the Irving gas station and we were I was really mad that we didn't get sent right away and I was I remember talking to my parents on the phone about that and I was really I mean we've I've been involved in other, like, major events, you know, Moncton being one of them with Justin Bork. And I remember I was so upset about Heidi Stevenson.

And, you know, people might attack me for saying this as well. But, like, I was so mad because I was remember thinking, like, moms aren't supposed to go after someone like that, right? because their kids need them. Someone like that should have people like me hunting them, right? It's supposed to be people in my profession, in my unit that is supposed to be out there. And I mean, and the Nova Scotia team was, but like I was just mad that we didn't get the call right away. And so when I heard about this most recent scan, with our, you know, the allegations of political interference.

And I know I'm not alone in this. I was like, that was your pressing concern? 22, 22 people murdered, including one of ours. And that was the pressing concern. That was disgusting. And I was, it's just one another one of those things, Sean, that validates my decision to leave. Right? Like I don't align with that organization anymore.

And, you know, I, I feel like the, you know, the, you know, the, the direction that our senior police officials are taking policing in this country is very. is very concerning. So I mean, you have that example. You have all of the things that we've seen over the last couple of years, right? Like how could you support arresting a mom who just wants to watch her kid play hockey? How could you support like what we saw against the convoy?

I mean, I was fully expecting when there was a mass mobilization that they would take ground, like they would push the people back to take ground to remove trucks. I certainly wasn't expecting to see some of the higher levels of force that were being used on people. And I think, you know, when you when you see what's happening to people that are being prosecuted related to the convoy, you know, coming back to that initial discussion, like this is not. normal. And the fact that so few, like we haven't had any like the Canadian Association of the Chiefs of Police, like all the different chiefs of police and police commissioners across Canada, the fact that we haven't had any of them speaking out publicly against this as like, this isn't normal. We're wandering into dangerous territory here. That's super concerning for me. And like the

politicization of the police, it. I think that's, that's one of the indicators, one of the major indicators for me that we're inching more and more toward like an authoritarian type country. Do you think? And we like, you know, the rank and file officers have so much more influence and so much more power than they think they do. You know, they're all brought up in that institutionalized mindset. I've been there.

I've lived it where, you know, you've got to be careful. You got to CYA. You know, you don't want to rock the boat because then you're going to get crapped on. You're going to get stomped on. You're going to miss out on a promotional opportunity. But if the majority of them that are conflicted about this spoke out against it, they could put an end to all of this. Do you think there's an opportunity?

if the Alberta police force was created tomorrow to, I don't know if it's do it better, Dan, I don't mean, but just have an opportunity at a fresh start because it'd be a brand new organization. Yeah, yeah, yes, there'd be, there's definitely be an opportunity there. I think anytime you have something new come into effect, you know, there's always an opportunity to do, to do, to operate more efficiently and to do a better job. But I guess, but there's also, there's always also the opportunity too that like, you know, whatever replaces. what you had could also be much worse. And I do think, though, that I think your odds of having a police force that's more tailored towards Alberta would be better, definitely. But like anything, there's going to, there would be, there would be growing pains, right?

I mean, that's a, that's a major transition for, for Alberta, right? I think the only other division that is bigger as far as RCMP, as far as like detachments and personnel is BC, right, is British Columbia. So, I mean, K division, which is Alberta, that's a big job. Dan Bulford sign up for said big job. Would you go work for an Alberta police force if it was started tomorrow since you're moving back anyways? I've said no when other people have asked me that question. I think it would take, I would have to see a major cultural shift from what I'm used to in policing. Like if the leadership was, if I assessed the leadership to be like strong in character,

Like if they were truly honest and willing to have hard conversations when hard conversations need to be had. And probably one of the biggest factors. Are they willing to stand up for their members? Right? Maybe I would consider. But it would have to be a major cultural shift. from what I am used to with the RCMP. I just go back to if it's a brand new organization,

the opportunity lies there that it could be. And knowing some of the pitfalls that are happening, not only in Canada, but across the world, there's a huge opportunity that lies there. If it were ever to be created, I mean, that's the first big hurdle is it has to be created, right? as we both know with Jason Kenny stepping down on the leadership race and you know I think it's end of July here we'll know exactly who's going to be who's going to be vying for UCP leadership

and then of course in May the the election happens again you know be interesting to see what comes here in the next year but it's one of the things that's been talked about an awful lot is their own police force, you know? And having a guy such as yourself on who's walked away from our, you know, RCMP for multiple different factors, I just look at it and I go, there's a huge opportunity to attract some of the best in the force to come to Alberta because they want a cultural shift. There's got to be, for sure there's more Dan Bulfords, right? You're not, you're not alone. There's going to be more guys in whatever force, whether it's in, Ontario police, whether it's in RCP, wherever they're at. There's going to be a bunch of people

that if they see the same cultural shift, you could have, in theory, one of the best police forces on the planet. Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think if they, if an Alberta provincial police force was created and they demonstrated that they were going to behave, you know, like honest, professional with integrity, you would attract a lot of highly competent police officers that would be looking for that shift. Now, again, I kind of like the idea of being my own boss. So I don't know. We'll see. Well, it's fair. I guess whether Dan Bolford goes to it or not, I look at it kind of like kind of like Florida. And I'm being very broad in this stroke.

Florida approached things differently. And what happened? A mass migration went to Florida. So if you approach policing different, similar but different. It'd be the same thing. It'd be the same thing. It'd be no different than if Alberta approached, you know, people joke about the Texas of the North.

But if they just approached things similar to DeSantis or different, you know, governors, there would be a migration. of people from, you know, for the longest time there was a migration of people to Alberta. Why? Good paying jobs, right? Like, actually ridiculously good paying jobs. All you had to do is show up and work and people came from all over Canada to do that because they can make a ton of money. Well, now it's it's about people's rights, freedoms, the ability to live, you know, you talk about being open and trustworthy and things like that. It's just those things would attract a ton of people because there's a ton of people just like us that they want exactly that and just want to have a

space in Canada to do exactly that. And then the crazy thing that would happen off of that is if it would give other provinces the confidence through the exact same thing. Yeah. Because then they'd see it. You know, you look at, I think I'm going to drop back into COVID a little bit here, but I think it was Sweden or Finland. People are going to know this better than me. They they got rid of Moderna, right? Because for young adults, because they were showing signs that it was giving mild carditis to young, young kids, right?

And so I think, you know, I'm just going to say Sweden, for argument's sake, started off by saying they're no longer going to offer it. And then Finland adopted it. Why? Because their neighbors are side by side. Now it's up to five countries have all, like, as Canada's okayed it for five month old or six months.

months to five years old, right? Yeah. And that's what happens. When one stands up, it gives confidence, and you can take this to the biggest level, countries, states, provinces, all the way down to exactly what you're talking about in the police force. If one person starts to stand up and it doesn't have to be this loud, you know, public display, it can be within, it will give others to agree with you and voice concerns. And then I would argue that I feel like, and maybe you were saying this earlier, that, you know, there's power in numbers. That's what the convoy was. Look at what it did. That's what's happening with the Dutch right now with the farmers. It's just wild to watch what's

going on over there. But there's power and numbers. And that can be in any organization, any, any business, any industry, that can be the same as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, another, you know, a feather in DeSantis cap was like the Florida economy is thriving right now. Why? Because of, probably because they didn't destroy businesses. They stayed open and they managed, they managed their problems pretty well. And the influx of people is just going to make the economy boom even more in that location, right? And I guess just affirming what you said. right if any institution any business any organization that operates in a manner which is trustworthy with integrity and professionalism is going to attract highly competent people that want

to be a part of it there's a huge opportunity right now across the board and go as large as you want as small as you want a huge opportunity if you start operating in a certain way and this is specific to Canada because we all know what across the country what's been kind of going on. There's a huge opportunity that if you operate, you can attract like a ton of people, a ton of competent people, a ton of people that just want to be treated with some respect, allowed to live their life. And I look at Alberta and, you know, certainly the viewers, I've had two of them on. I'm working on more as we move along here.

Some of the candidates vying for UCP leadership. there's a huge opportunity for them because, I mean, once they're in, they're going to have a short window to make Alberta different than what else, what the rest of the country is doing. And that will attract. That's always attracted. People want the, you know, whether it was money or whether it's freedom. Now freedom is money. Like, I mean, geez, everybody's looking for it. I think they complement each other.

You know, freedom and prosperity. Typically, you know, that's probably why the West was. was such a, such a success compared to communist regimes, right? Like people, when people are free to live their life, you know, within reasonable confines, they are, you know, you get more, they become more entrepreneurial, more creative and, you know, innovation is spur. Innovation. There you go. That's, that's, that's, that's where I was going is that it, it, it, give people problems. It just makes everything better.

Yeah. Give people a problem. Let them solve it. Mike Kuzmiskis, who was just back on CEO of I-Corp labs, right? He's talking about cancer the same way. And what he's talking about is I'm like, frig, as a population, I like the sound of that. Like, I just do.

And that's what you want to encourage more of. Yeah. Is innovation people to go out there and be, you know, give them a problem. We'll solve problems. We've got nothing. Nobody's against solving some problems. And complex ones at that. Like that's what we've been doing for a long time.

And but you have to be able to freely exchange ideas. Again, that open, respectful communication, even between people who might disagree on things is how you're going to solve those big complex problems, right? Well,

let's slide into this. I don't know if I did this with you last time. I was trying to recount when I started the, the Final Five brought to by Crude Master. Certainly I've done different variations. of it. And this has been the newest one, which is he's words. If you're going to stand behind a cause that you think is right, then stand behind it absolutely. What's one thing Dan stands behind? Well, I mean, the easy picking there would be individual rights and freedoms. Or that's probably been

overdone. Now, and I mean, I, from coming from the police world, I know, that like there still has to be some boundary within that exists right here we go i'll try and i'll try and make this as concise as possible promoting unity based on uncensored truth while treating every individual with dignity and respect because the the division can go both directions, right? And, you know, you hear the example of people, you know, calling other people sheep, for example, because they're still wearing a mask. I understand that there's no evidence to support someone wearing a mask by themselves outside. But that's not treating that person with dignity and respect. And you're certainly not going to win them over and solve the problem. of why they are still afraid to be outside without a mask on. So I guess unity based on uncensored truth while treating everyone with dignity and respect.

And I might say it a little bit differently if we weren't in a public setting, if we were just having a beer with each other. But that's my official public answer. The next time we do this, we'll be with a beer across the table because you'll be in the lovely province of Alberta I'm looking forward to that.

I appreciate you giving me some time today and talking about some different things. We certainly went down a few different rabbit holes, but I appreciate you hopping on, Dan, as always. And all the best to you and safe travels when you do eventually make it west. Well, thank you, Sean. You are definitely on my growing list of people to visit on my journey home. Sounds good. Well, you got a place to stay if you need it. Right on.

Thanks, man. You bet. Enjoy your vacation. Well, working on it. Yeah. All right. A little bonus coverage for all the viewers. I was thinking back to Tamara Leach after we stopped, we got talking.

And I'd written down national security. And, you know, when you start talking about, and certainly I don't mean this to anyone you've encountered, just more in the sense of you got somebody who assault somebody at a bar or assault somebody and whatever. Are they, you know, whatever that is. Are they a dangerous individual? Yes. Tamara Leach right now in Canada.

Is there anyone who has the influence of her as a whole on the public? And I was wondering, does she provide a national security risk of mobilizing a population to doing just about anything? And that's why the extreme measures. Does that even make sense? I know. No, I understand your question. So I certainly don't believe that was ever her intention. And now what we are seeing, though, from the government, these major departures from the norm,

we discussed earlier about how they're applying the criminal code toward her and how it's way outside of the norm. Like the, I suspect there's a couple of things at play here. So the convoy was a massive event, right? And Tamara being one of the main faces of the convoy, you know, she obviously has a tremendous amount of popularity in Canada and probably way more than our current prime minister. But then you also have, so I think she's definitely a, she would be perceived as a threat to the establishment. Yes, I don't believe that was her intention to become that.

But their own actions have contributed, right? The government's actions towards her, these malicious, vindictive political prosecutions against her are contributing to her increase in popularity, right? Like they, them focusing on her and making her somewhat of a political prisoner is almost creating a martyr in the eyes of millions of Canadians. And so, you know, it sucks. It's really unfortunate for her to have to endure that on the behalf of the rest of us. But I think the government's the police and the crown going after her with such, it's called vigor is only serving to increase her popularity as a symbol of freedom in Canada. Right.

And I mean, if you think about it from their own strategic point of view, it's a huge tactical error, right? Here you have a Métis grandmother from the West. So all three categories. If you look at it from a traditional like liberal perspective, people who have been like, you know, they have faced their share of, let's call it unfair treatment or oppression, whatever, right? And so that is the face of the freedom movement in Canada right now, like probably no more, no one more so than Tamara. And so to bring the hammer down on her repeatedly and disproportionately, it's backfiring in a major way. But I also, so that's the first point I wanted to address. The second point, though, is that you can tell.

Underneath, the vast majority of the freedom movement has maintained, like, impressive composure when it comes to peaceful noncompliance. You know, the most glaring example was during the dismantling of the freedom convoy, even though force was being used against them. But then once the convoy was dismantled, there was kind of a bit of a lull in the action. And then James Topp was moving across. So, you know, you had Rolling Thunder in Ottawa. And then you had James Topp coming on the scene, who's obviously, you know, a much different method of protest, but hugely popular as well. And again, multiple combat tour Canadian Armed Forces veteran. So, you know, worthy of major respect, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.

And so I think he was coming to meet with members of parliament, which I participated in with him. And then, you know, that was very public. And I think the timing of Tamara's arrest, you know, what she's being arrested for, what she's being prosecuted for, the huge departure from the norm, like the disproportionate punishment for what she's accused of. correlated with the timing of James Topps arrival into Ottawa, I do suspect that it was an intentional effort, another example of political interference into the legal system, or the, let's call it the administration of justice. I use the term justice loosely, but in an attempt to provoke a very strong outrage from the freedom movement, right? Because here we are about to have this massive celebration of this veteran who just marched across Canada on foot under a heavy rucksack through the winter, through the Rocky Mountains.

Roughly, I think it's roughly like 4,500 kilometers. You know, he's continuing. But we're about to have this major celebration that lands right around Canada Day after he just met with like, I think it was like 23 members of parliament. you know, and the media is attacking him and trying to label him all of the hateful things that the trucker convoy was labeled. And so we're about to have this massive celebration for James Topp. Boom, Tamara gets arrested. You know, you're having this mass gathering of people in Ottawa, again, for that purpose, for James and for Canada Day. what an opportunity to try and provoke a massive outrage amongst those people who could,

you know, if they were to become violent, then they would fit very nicely into that box of white nationalist extremist insurrectionists that the government and media narrative has trying to, has been trying to paint them as. So I do think it's a malicious vindictive political prosecution. And I think the intention behind it from the political aspect was to try and provoke the freedom movement into something beyond peaceful noncompliance. So I think it's like it's like a psychological operation. Yeah. You know, it's funny.

I completely spaced on James Topp. obviously I got to interview him while he was walking. Like what he did, it's amazing. I've, I've biked the country. That's impressive too. But not a winner.

Under a full rock. Like, I, just what he accomplished, take all the meaning from the freedom side away from it. Just what he did as an individual accomplishment was impressive. And, you know,

like, what was that like in Ottawa? What was his arrival there, Dan, like? Like, I completely spaced. I'm glad you brought it up. It was amazing. I mean, I was really looking forward to meeting him in person. We had talked a couple of times before. And, you know, I got to accompany him when he met with the members of parliament,

along with Paul Alexander and Tom Marazzo and. other public figure from the convoy. And, you know, James's team is, they're great people, incredible people. And so I got to spend three days with them. And then the following week for the 30th, I actually, you know, marched the final day with him, which part of me was hoping I'd get to be like right with them. So we could actually have a chance to talk a little bit. But it was just so many people that we ended up getting spaced out in different kind of groups. And but that was still, it was really impressive. And it was, it was very well received, right?

Like the March, that final day March was, it started out roughly like 300 people and just grew and grew and grew as the march went on. I don't really know what the final number was. I maybe estimate roughly 1,000 people, maybe more. and but then when we got right downtown marching along the Rideau Canal and turned up on to Wellington towards the war memorial like there was a massive crowd of people I don't I don't know the exact number but it was it was a packed house all in that the whole vicinity of like Wellington and both sides of Elgin you know what kind of makes that like upside down triangle type shape around the war memorial

and yeah, it was, it was, it was that same energy. You probably, you felt it right, when you're walking around downtown during the convoy, like another, like another renewed sense of hope that we can, that Canada is not lost, right? That we can still be this great nation that we have been in the past. And I got to, I really, I got to meet James, or sorry, I got to meet him beforehand, but then I got to introduce my wife and kids to him. And like, I don't know. There's a video that was going around of our encounter.

And like my kids gave him a big hug and he gave them a big hug. And because they get it, right? Like I've been telling them all along like how amazing it is what he's doing. Right. And so, you know, all these people that have taken a stand like Tamara and James who took a stand, you know, not just for themselves, but for people like us too. you know, that was, that was special. Yeah. I, uh, once again, uh, what James pulled off, uh, is, you know, as a lone individual.

And I'm, I know all about his team on the, the backside that were helping them, uh, you know, uh, accomplish it. Um, was impressive alone with the, the, the gathering and everything else that happened, uh, in Ottawa. Um, yeah. And, and, and I want to go back to, marriage here for a few more minutes before I let you go, you know, and this this audity that that has become Canada. You know, one of her, one of her conditions was that she didn't meet with any of the convoy. There was a group of, I believe, 10 individuals. One of them's Tom Rasm. One of them's me. There you go. Yeah. So. Unless in the presence of counsel.

Like to me, I just, it, like where we're at is a no contact order is pretty common. If you're talking about co-accused. But I mean, the conditions put on her word and anyone, you know, Chris Barber is in the same boat, right? Like completely disproportionate. Do you have, do you have any of these same? No. So your name is. Neither does Tom Marazzo.

but where she's on conditions not to have any contact with us, even though neither of us have been charged with anything because we were public faces associated to the convoy. Right. And I mean, I don't know. Have you watched any of those videos interviews with Keith Wilson? He's like one of the main lawyers from the JCCF. I know exactly who he is.

That is representing Tamara. You know, like my impression is that like, let's say the bank accounts, freezing and a lot of the police action has been based on mainstream media coverage. You know, one one article he cites specifically as CTV, who's who in the Freedom Convoy. And there's actually a document from the OPP and the RCMP that lists a number of us, right? And kind of outlines what our deep, what our involvement was with the convoy. and it is referenced the CTV, who's who in the Freedom Convoy is referenced in that document. So the police are taking their intelligence from the media.

And I've never heard of that before, right? Like as a police officer, you should be keenly aware that the media will manipulate the story to fit the narrative they want to tell. I mean, that was true well before COVID existed. And so, you know, and beyond that, you know, that also that list from my understanding, like, I was on that list. That's probably why my bank account was frozen with no charge, no court order, nothing. And so we, one of the things that was two senior Mounties testified in front of Parliament at a hearing. at a committee hearing, that everyone whose bank account was frozen was warned ahead of time. Or most people, that's a complete lie.

I don't know anyone who was warned by the police ahead of time, including me. And the force has been paying into that account for 15 years. I was myself and Tom Marazzo both were talking to the police liaisons every single day of the convoy. You know, from the OPP, OPS, RCMP, the PPS, not one of us received a phone call warning that they were going to freeze our accounts. I mean, beyond what Christia Freeland said. So, yes, the senior Mountie who said that lied to Parliament. So you had your bank account frozen?

Yeah, yeah, for five, six days, something like that. Some people had it way longer than that. Um, anyways, sorry, you know, it just goes to show like the type of behavior that we're seeing from our police agencies right now, right? And then you go going back to the Tamara thing. You know, yeah. So it's quite common for people to be on a no contact with co-accused. I was arrested. I was never charged. Tom Marazzo was never arrested or charged. And even regard, Regardless of that, you know, you could be on a no contact with a victim, right? If I've assaulted you, I'm going to be on a no contact order with you as you're the victim of the alleged crime. But, you know, because they are also, you know, there's also civil matters against a number of us. I believe that's the reason for the condition being like in, they are not not to have any contact unless in the present. presence of counsel. The event was hosted by the JCCF. The number of lawyers from the JCCF were at the event.

They actually hosted the event, including John Carpe, who is like the, I think he's the president of the JCCF. He's the one who presented her with the award. So I mean, like, as police, you know, I'm speaking specifically in regard to the homicide detectives that are working these investigations right now. So again, keep that in mind, homicide detectives have been reassigned from murder investigations to investigate allegations of mischief and breaching or breaches of people related to the convoy, as opposed to investigating murders. And within that, these, you know, these homicides, detectives, police officers have discretion, right? You do not have to charge in every single

circumstance if it doesn't meet, if it's not in the public interest. That's also true for the crown. The crown drops charges all the time if there's, you know, they'll cite there's no prospect of conviction or that it's not in the public interest. So again, it's clear. Like, is it, I mean, in my mind, is it really in the public interest to issue a Canada-wide warrant, hold someone in custody for an indeterminate amount of time, fly homicide investigators from Ottawa to Alberta to transport the prisoner back to Ottawa to be held here for an alleged breach that will likely result in an acquittal if it goes to trial? I don't see how that's in the public interest whatsoever. I find it funny that after over two years, my brain still, think about this. And I get to interview Dan all the time, people with very interesting views, very knowledgeable people all over the place from all aspects of this country, all different walks and lines, everything. And here I sit, trying to rationalize why Tamara Leach would be held.

And when I listen to you, I go, I am an utter moron for even trying to do this because as you talk more and more, I go, it's playing out exactly how everyone thinks it's playing out. You can try and rationalize it. But at the end of the day, she's being held. It ain't good. And every Canadian should be appalled by what's going on. And probably more so than appalled, like this should move people to want to do something about it because her being held against. you know, for everything you just said is a scary thought for where we could head in the future. Well, and that's why I feel so strongly that police officers need to stand up to this politicization of their profession, right?

Like every, especially anyone who has worked the street for any length of time, done patrol, general duty, you know, different names depending on the organization, has encountered like violent repeat offenders that don't receive near the punishment that you're seeing directed at people from the Freedom Convoy. Well, what if you are then? You're a guy who's been walking the beat

for the last two years, 10 years, 20 years, doesn't matter. You're sitting there, you're listening to this. What's the words of advice then to him? refuse to do it right on i mean i'm not i'm not saying like launch you know launch some overthrow of your organization obviously but like you tell your boss if they ask you to do something that you find to be unjust you say no you say no we operate on reasonable probable grounds that an offense was committed is it in the public interest to pursue is it worth

our time and effort. Like, why are people, why is the application of the law being, why is it being applied inconsistently depending on your political views? That's wrong, right? The criminal, like, there's many things that could be enforced that are not because it's not worth the time and the effort. And it's not in the public interest. Well, here's a, Here's an example right from the Ottawa Police Service. This is something that I encountered firsthand while I was in Ottawa during the convoy. There was an incident where there was a man who pulled out a crowbar out of his car and threatened a number of people in the area,

including myself. I had to move a bunch of people away. And I believe this man has mental health issues. But when the parliamentary. Protective Service called the Ottawa Police Service. The Ottawa Police Service showed up on scene and the patrol sergeant came to talk to me and he expressed that they don't even pursue common assault charges in Ottawa because the Crown, based on the direction from the Crown's office. again, because they just don't have the human resources to pursue every single criminal offense that is committed, right?

So, but there's a, there's a perfect example of something that occurred, potential for violence with a weapon that nothing was done about by the Ottawa Police Service because of the direction that they've received from the Crown's office. yet such extraordinary measures are being directed at people like Tamara, Pat, George, or Tyson, sorry, and including the freezing of the accounts. Yeah, no, it's evident. I mean, it's, it's, it's impossible for me to rationalize or to justify what is being done. That's why I appreciate you coming on the show and allowing me to grill you on, several different things because I'm just like it's funny I laugh at my brain all the time I'm doing it again right just I want it to be like on the up and up you know I want to believe that uh and the funny crazy thing is I've met Tamara like I know exactly who she is I'm not sitting here trying to to to throw shade that way at all just that could there be any reasonable and then you just rattle off I'm like no like at this point I think we can all see what it is. And I just, once again, here I sit as a humble podcaster going, so what do we do about it, right? Talking and spreading the message is certainly, certainly,

a good avenue. Everybody has their way of which they can help influence in a respectful manner. James Topp just did it, right? He just walked across the country and kept that very peaceful, but to the point. He got to meet with probably the next premier, the next leader of the conservative party in Pulle, and he got to meet with different MPs and that type of thing. And you have to hope that is moving the dial the right direction. I mean, you have to hope.

In the meantime, Tamara sits at a jail cell for everything we just talked to. about. Yeah. On behalf of us. Yeah. Yeah. So don't forget that like for for the viewers, right? Like she see her and others are the sacrificial lamb for the rest of us. And so the, you know, Matthias Desmond, the professor who talks about mass formation, he said these totalitarian regimes collapse on themselves. And I think we're seeing evidence of that already, like with like in response to like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. The. totalitarianism. And so we need to just keep speaking out. That's what he says. He's like, it's just imperative that people just keep speaking out and don't, don't let the distractions of everyday life, like take you away from focusing on standing up for for what's right. Well, once again, I'll say it again. I appreciate you giving me some time. Dan, it's always enjoy speaking with you and certainly look forward to shaking your hand. And I know I'll say it all over again.

When you're out West in Alberta, there's going to be a lot of people that are happy. You've come to join us out west and be in our neck of the woods. But I'll let you get back to your day, and I do appreciate you giving me a few more minutes as we went in bonus time. No, that's good. I'm glad we went there because I think that's important information for people to know. Yeah, for sure. Thank you, sir. Thanks, John.