Shaun Newman Podcast - #310 - Teri Bryant

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

Alberta's Chief Firearm Officer hops on the podcast to discuss all things guns. November 5th SNP Presents: QDM & 2's. Get your tickets here: snp.ticketleap.com/snp-presents-qdm--222-minutes/ Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

What's up, guys, it's Kid Carson. This is Alexandra Kitty. This is Danielle Smith. Hey, everybody. This is Paul Brandt. Jeremy McKenzie, Ragingdissident.com. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

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For the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm, commercial or oilfield locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock, Petroleum.com. She is Alberta's Chief Firearms Officer. I'm talking about Terry Bryant. So buckle up. Here we go. This is Terry Bryant.

And welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Terry Bryant, Alberta's Chief Firearms Officer. So first off, Terry, thanks for hopping on. Well, thank you. I always appreciate an opportunity to make our office better known and to talk to people. I'm a former university professor. I love to talk. Well, I think for my audience, if they're, if they're gun owners, they know exactly who

you are, but I assume there's going to be a lot of people on here that aren't gun owners as well. So I think a good place to start is maybe who is Terry? And let's just hear a little bit of your story and we'll go from there. Okay. So I'm originally from Ontario, but have now spent over half my life, the better half in Alberta. I grew up in the rural, mostly in the rural parts of Ontario, rural and small town. My father was, and my grandfather before him were very interested in firearms. And so I sort of come by that interest naturally. You know, when I was a kid, I'd go to the range and go to gun shows with my dad.

So, you know, my career took me elsewhere. As I mentioned, I was a banker for a while. I was a professor at the University of Calgary's Haskine School of Business for 25 years. And then I kind of sort of retired and engaged in a variety of part-time things for a while, taking student groups to Japan and writing for a member of parliament. And then this job came up. I applied and I was fortunate enough to be chosen. Before we get to the current position, one of the things in researching you, the, I don't know, is it a love of Japanese history and their culture and specifically handguns and different weapon they had?

Where does that stem from? To me, it just seems not odd, just like, I guess not everybody talks about Japanese history. Yes, well, so from childhood, one of the interests I always had was languages. And so I studied French, German, Russian, Latin. I studied Russian in the Soviet Union back when there was a Soviet Union. And, you know, I continue to, you know, work on my French daily. I listen to the news, read French novels and things. And at one point, when I was doing my master's degree, I had the opportunity to take

two courses, anything that I wanted, and I wanted to do a non-European language. So I started Japanese. And one thing led to another, and I ended up teaching a course on doing business with Japan for 25 years. And eventually my pre-existing interest in firearms and military history and my interest in Japan sort of coalesced. And I thought, well, nobody else is doing Japanese firearms at the time. And so I had a sort of advantage because I could speak and read and write Japanese. And so I got involved with Japanese firearms and collecting also a lot of other Japanese military.

I have thousands of items of Japanese military arranging from postcards to flags and medals and, you know, boots and helmets and all kinds of things related to Japanese military history. basically from the 1870s to 1945 with an emphasis on the World War II period. And since then, I've kind of branched out into the Pacific War more broadly and, you know, developed a collection of the Chinese weaponry used in the conflict with Japan and stuff used by other belligerents during the Pacific theater. And what's maybe, I don't know, what sticks out to you, you know, in your travels, in your, your, your, your, uncovering of different things all Japanese and their history and everything. What's one of the things you stumbled upon or maybe people just don't understand? Well, I think the one of the things

that is interesting to me is how, you know, every, every country's culture is reflected in many different aspects of their society, including their military. So in the case of Japan, for example, I have a lot of artifacts that in order to really understand the military practices and the artifacts of that period, you have to know something about Japanese culture. And so in that sense, when I do displays on this topic, it's kind of an invitation of people to start learning about Japanese culture in general. Well, let's fast forward because, I mean, the reason I brought you on, I certainly love history and I love just learning different things.

But one of the things about bringing you on has been this new role in Alberta. I mean, you're about to celebrate your first year as Alberta's chief firearms officer. You said something in an interview that really, I really enjoyed. And it was compliance through credibility, not compliance. And to me, that probably can be put to almost any different area that the federal government has been or any government has touched. If you had credibility, not compulsion, I think a lot of people would line up right behind that, Terry. So one of the things I'm curious about is through a year of going around and meeting all the different areas of Alberta and different people and hearing arguments on probably both sides. and everything else, where are some things maybe that you've unearthed or heard from the

Alberta public that stand out? And we'll just start with that. Well, I guess if I could start with the people that I meet with in the firearms community, you know, I attend gun shows. I attend shooting competitions. I attended a cowboy action shoot in Vermilion a while back. I'll be next weekend, I'll be attending, not competing in the Ipsic Provincials. Long ago I was in Ipsic, but I'd be pretty rusty to get to that exalted level now.

So I think one of the big differences is, or one of the big main striking things, is how strong the acceptance is in Canada that, I mean, we do need to have a, regulatory framework around firearms. Nobody in Canada, with very few exceptions, nobody's asking for the Wild West. Nobody's expecting that, you know, everybody should be able to strap on a pair of six guns and swagger down to the local saloon, you know, that sort of thing. People have a reasonable expectation that they should do things, conduct themselves in a manner consistent with public safety.

But in exchange, they expect to be allowed to pursue activities that are in entirely consistent with public safety. And in fact, I would argue that many of those activities are not just consistent with public safety, but reinforce public safety. Because when we have hunters who are practicing the harvesting of game animals in a responsible fashion, when we have target shooters who are refining their skills to often a very high or even world-class level when we have collectors who are staging displays at gun shows. This helps to create a responsible, respectful attitude towards firearms that creates a healthy

culture around firearms. And if we lose that, if we lose that law-abiding firearms community that creates a positive culture around firearms, all we will have left is the negative imagery. that is often sensationalistically portrayed on the news in movies, in video games, and so on, that tends to create an unhealthy attitude. And so I feel that these responsible activities of the law-abiding firearms community actually reinforce public safety by helping to create a healthy attitude around firearms. So you think, like when I'm listening to say that,

And talk about the sensilization. I can't even say the word. Sensilization? What word am I trying to say, Terry, and I'm butchering it right now? Yeah. Well, the sensitivity or? Well, just like, I can't believe I'm basing on the word I want to say. I thought you're the interviewer.

I'm supposed to be the one who gets tongue-tied. Well, it happens at the best of times. I mean, that's life. Some days the tongue wants to work. Other days it just isn't. There, the overhype, just like the portrayal of guns, they're just bad. You know, I look at that. Sensationalization, I think, is the word you for it.

Thank you, Jiminy. See, folks, we get to it. Is that media's problem? Is that what, what is that? Because, you know, growing up on a farm and around people who hunt, I, the amount of people that, well, there's a certain culture around gun ownership and proper use and that type of thing.

And then you see the media how they portray certain things and it's interesting to watch. You know, I hear education on these different areas. And I wonder, why doesn't the media give both sides more often? Or maybe they do and just nobody cares. Well,

I'm not, I'm not, I wouldn't want to leap to the defense of the media too much because I do have, have my issues with them. But I think, you know, they reflect society at large. And part of the issue is that most people in Canada today are quite far removed from that firearms culture. When I was growing up, if you didn't live in a rural area, chances are you had lived in a rural area not that long ago or your parents had. So there was still some kind of connection. And here in Alberta, for example, I think we have developed kind of a different overall mentality regarding firearms because our society was founded on agriculture. routes, ranching and farming. And I mean, that's a small minority of our population now. But those farmers and ranchers used their firearms as a tool.

And so they may have gone and seen a cowboy movie and seen the gun slingers in the street. There was sensationalization back then, too. You know, some guy would whip out his six gun and hit a coin flying 50 feet in the air, you know, perform various miraculous feats of marksmanship. But that was balanced by what they saw on a day-to-day basis. And nowadays, you know, in Alberta, there's still, I think, that sense of firearms as tools that have been, you know, that are associated with what's necessary to pursue an independent,

free, responsible, self-reliant lifestyle. And there's still a bit more of a sense of that idea of independence and self-reliance, I think, in Alberta than in some other places. I think it's still there in rural areas in a lot of other parts of Canada. But it's particularly strong here, I think, in Alberta. And so that, I think, contrast quite sharply with the culture that you see in our big cities in other parts of the country and to some extent, unfortunately also here as well, where people are kind of disconnected from that. And they've only seen firearms in connection with misuse and abuse, often by the criminal element. And so they don't have that balance. And so what they're expecting and what they are willing to accept from the media is based on

their experience. They've only experienced negative issues related to firearms. And so that's what the media serves them. You know, when you bring up the ties to the

rural community and growing up on farms are close to it in generations in that instance, I've brought up lots on here the percentage of population that lives in urban communities now. at 83% here in Canada, right?

It's heavily, heavily that way. So in your tours then, you know, you talked about going to the gun shows and that type of thing. Have you been able to get into urban centers to talk to people who don't know Jack Squad about guns? To maybe shine a light on, you know, you have these fears about XYZ, but this is why you may be, misconstrued about what the actual problems are. Because to me, I don't think you need to convince the farmer. Although they might want to beat their mind at ease, that people are fighting for them and educating different people.

But the people who are most concerned, I think, about guns aren't the people who wield them other than they're worried they're going to get them all taken away. I mean, that's what the federal government keeps trying to do. Yes. Well, I guess there are a couple of areas there. So first of all, we do have urban gun shows in, you know, Calgary and, well, Edmontons is out in Stony Plain, but it's basically Edmonton. And you'd be surprised, actually, how many people who are not gun owners go to these things, just either with friends or as, out of curiosity, you know.

There's a lot of younger people in particular who are just firearms curious, one might say, and, you know, come out to see. what's going on. So I have a lot of opportunities to talk to people who are not gun people, as it were, at those events. Also in my daily life, I have opportunities like that. So, for example, I spend a lot of time in Edmonton. Many times when I've been at the Edmonton Farmer's Market, I've struck up conversations, people ask me what I do. And, you know, I have an opportunity. to correct misperceptions. One gentleman that I've spoken to many times when I first started speaking, he said, well, an AR-15 will blow up a deer, won't it?

You know, as if it was like a bazooka or something. And, you know, it gives me an opportunity to correct people's perceptions. And when people meet me in person, I think most people tend to assess that I'm a reasonably sensible person. So they accept what I have to say. And we have also had not as many as I would like yet, but we have had meetings with other groups, you know, for example, people who work in the areas of domestic violence and things like that. Because part of what we do here is my firearms officers are the ones who in marginal cases will decide, is this person okay to get a gun or not.

And so in order to, we've hired people that we think have developed good interviewing and decision-making skills on issues like that, often from a law enforcement background. And then we try and strengthen that ability with additional training. So we have speakers come in to talk about violent extremism, about law motorcycle gangs, street gangs, domestic violence, and so on. We have one of our officers is being certified as a subject matter expert on domestic violence issues. And so we're trying to bring in those kinds of expertise and use that to strengthen the decision-making

of our firearms officers so that they will make the very best decisions in all cases to ensure that people get fair treatment and also that. that public safety is safeguarded because that's our paramount objective. Well, you, with your officers, let's say John doesn't have a gun or Jane doesn't have a gun and they want to go and get one. How easy is it in Canada? You know, too often we, as Canadians, we look at the United States and because I mean, obviously they're a big neighbor of others and we fall along with a lot, which is going on there.

And so if you don't own a gun, how easy is it to just, Terry, I'm walking in, I'm going to buy the brand new, whatever, and walk out the door. How easy is that in Canada, specifically Alberta under your guys's leadership? Well, it has in recent times, I mean, I'm talking now recent decades, it has not been easy at all and it has gotten a lot harder recently. So the process basically involves taking a safety course, which is a day for non-restricted firearms, an additional day for non-restricted firearms, and then passing a test based on that, providing photographs, references, spousal consent, and completing an extensive questionnaire about one's background, including whether there have been mental health issues, marital breakdown issues, financial reverses, job loss, and a variety of other potential flags. And then submitting that along with a fee, which is modest, but not insignificant. It's, you know, in the realm $60, $80, depending on kind of what license you're looking at.

And then once all that is submitted, which can be done other by mail or online, there's a 28-day waiting period and then the processing time. So under the best of circumstances, after you had completed all of the things that you would need to do, it would be about 45 days to acquire your license. And by the time you count getting ready, it'd probably be a minimum of two months. But unfortunately, in recent times, the federal government, which is responsible still for doing the bulk of individual licenses at a central processing unit in Miramishy, New Brunswick.

They've been hard hit by a variety of personnel retention issues and so on. And so the service time has actually, well, ballooned, I guess would be an appropriate term to closer to six to nine and even 12 months at times for new applications. So if you were to start today under the current circumstances with the backlog that they have at that central processing unit and you had a clean application so there was no problem with it, you would probably be waiting six to nine months. Oh man, that's a long time. It is a long time.

It's an unacceptably long time. I think, you know, the 45-day service standard that they had, that's, you know, I mean, everybody would like, everybody wants everything instantly nowadays, right? I mean, we're, we hit the button on our, on our microwave, and we're impatient when it takes 30 seconds until that thing goes off. So 45 days, though I think, or even at two months is not an unreasonable period of time. but the current wait times are to my mind completely unacceptable. And I personally believe that we could do a better job doing that here. I'm working on that, but it will, it will, it's, we're not quite there yet. But that is, there's other provinces that have Chief Firearms officers.

Do they have the ability to work on individual licensing yet, or is that something brand new to any province? Well, I guess I should explain that every province and one of the territories has a chief firearms officer. The one territory that has a separate firearms officer is Northwest Territories because they used to be handled by Alberta. And so when we became a provincial office a year ago, the federal territorial part got split off. But every province has a chief firearms officer. Of those 10 provincial chief firearms officers, there are four who are federally appointed.

And of course, they have to tow the federal line very closely because they are federally appointed. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. Of the six that are provincially appointed, two of them are police officers in Quebec and Ontario. So of course, they really can't color outside the lines very much.

Two of them are in rather obscure provincial offices within their public service. And so they have limited discretion, no mandate to make any changes. What do you mean obscure? Well, I mean, I have a very public profile. These people are, it's not part of their mandate to have a public profile.

Okay. So, and of course, part of the reason why I have a public profile, it's not just my mandate, but also firearms are a bigger issue in Alberta than they are in some other provinces. Albertans love their guns. And so firearms issues have a higher prominence. here than they do in another province that, for example, doesn't have as much wild land, like, say, P-E-I, you know, or something like that. So there's only two provinces, Saskatchewan and Alberta, that have provincially appointed chief

firearms officers that have an explicit mandate to try to change things for the better. And all of the provinces, each one has a slightly different mix of activities, but the central processing unit in Miramishy, New Brunswick, is where all the applications currently flow through to start with. And the applications that our office would deal with under the present arrangement are normally the ones that require some kind of investigation. So, for example, someone has indicated they have had a mental health issue in the past, and then we have to talk to that person and perhaps get a letter from their mental health care provider

to assess whether that person is an acceptable risk to have a firearms license. So, you know, the bulk of firearms licenses all across Canada are processed because most the people who apply are relatively clean applications. They're processed in Miramishina, New Brunswick. With two of the, with it being Alberta and Saskatchewan, which shouldn't surprise anyone,

do you think it's reasonable then that you're going to be able to pull some of that stuff back to a provincial level with, you know, bulk of the provinces, you know, not wanting to bite the hand that feeds, so to speak. Is that going to be something? that's feasible?

Well, it's imminently feasible. So my deputy and I, after considerable poking and prodding, were able to visit Miramishie in June. And everything that they do there, we could do here. To my mind, I think we could do better here. And other provinces do, as I said, more than we do at, present. And so if you look at the Firearms Act, actually, virtually every authority in the Firearms Act is given to a chief provincial firearms or chief firearms officer, which is a position that there's one in each province. Okay. And so it is actually only because I signed

designation orders that people in Miramishy, New Brunswick, are even allowed to do business on behalf of Albertans. And so it will definitely take some negotiation. First of all, there are financial and manpower implications here. There's a lot of negotiation that will have to happen with the feds in order to disentangle things. But absolutely it is possible. And I believe it's highly desirable. And I believe it's time. And I think that the, I sense that for many quarters, the political will is also there. What did you think when Justin Trudeau said, National Freeze on Handgun Ownership,

what this means is no longer be possible to buy, sell, transfer, import handguns anywhere in Canada. In other words, we are capping the market on handguns. And then he went on to say, we need less gun violence. We cannot let the guns debate become so polarized that nothing gets done. We cannot let that happen in our country.

Well, I guess, first of all, I was disappointed to see that yet again, the federal government was targeting law-abiding people rather than the criminal element, and very disappointed at this attempt to conflate legal handgun ownership by some of the most carefully vetted and law-abiding citizens in our country with appropriate license. with the gang violence that we see in the streets. I mean, it's really, to my mind, quite inexcusable to attempt to conflate those things. Not entirely surprising, given past developments, but very disappointing. And I think it was, it's also disappointing to see that there is this, there hasn't really been any attempt to consider ways of softening, the impact of some of these measures.

So, for example, I don't believe that it was necessary to cap the number of handguns in Canada that are in the hands of legally authorized, carefully vetted law-abiding owners. But if you were going to do that, you could have still allowed the transfer, amongst those individuals. So if I get tired of shooting a revolver and I want your semi-automatic pistol, shouldn't we be allowed to trade? How does that harm public safety? But I think it was almost a deliberate poke in the eye,

it seems, to try and disregard the legitimate needs. And I have seen so much distress that this has caused people, because many of the people who own firearms, they may, restricted firearms, handguns, they may have a large number of them they've acquired as a collection over the years. They're interested in, you know, the old cowboy guns, single-action army revolvers or, you know, Colt 1911s or German Lugers from World War II and World War I. then they've got a very substantial investment there. And suddenly within a very short time frame and an uncertain time frame, they have to decide, am I going to sit on these forever and lose the potential value or part with things that I would dearly love to keep?

and sell them into the market while I still can. It's an unbelievable infringement on the property rights of Albertans when they are seeing, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars of their property with the prospect of it being rendered valueless if this proposed handgun ban, handgun transfer ban, goes through. It's also very distressing because when you put this together with some of the other things that the federal government has been doing, it suggests that a freeze on the transfers

is not the final step in that process that they have in mind. what are what do you think that uh not to speculate too much but when when you add all the things up what are you adding up and what do you think what they're what they're leaning towards well you're probably aware that in uh may of 2020 the federal government banned uh an extensive list of about 1500 um various uh modern sporting firearms and uh historical artifacts. And they have since come up with a plan to confiscate them and provide some level of compensation to owners, a level that is as yet indeterminate, but appears to likely, in many cases, to fall far short of anything that could be considered fair value. My concern is that

once this system for confiscating and compensating has been set up, that it will not be the last time it is used. And so, I mean, if they go to all the bother of devising such a system, bureaucracies have a tendency to self-perpetuate. And I am very concerned that the federal government will, after they, if they manage to successfully proceed with their current plans, that they will continue on. That they'll continue on.

I mean, I don't get any inside information, believe it or not, neither the Prime Minister nor the Minister of Public Safety whispers little sweet nothings into my ear. But as someone who has observed this and been involved in, I've been actively like testifying before House of Commons and Senate committees for over 30 years. This is the general tendency that I see is you start with one thing and then you just keep gradually expanding. And that's, I think, very worrisome because, you know, it's worrisome not just to people.

It should be worrisome not just to firearms owners. It should be worrisome to everyone for two reasons. First of all, if the government establishes the precedent that they can confiscate the property of people who have not done anything wrong, that's a very dangerous thing in itself. And then it is also very worrisome, I think should be worrisome to the average citizen who may not be very involved in the firearms issue because this program, of confiscating and compensating is going to cost billions. They've tried to lowball the numbers, but there are estimates that it could be as high as $7 billion, 9 billion, even if it's not that,

even if it's only a couple of billion. That's $2 billion that could be spent on much more important things that would actually affect crime. And so the waste of taxpayer resources implied by these plans is another reason why the ordinary non-gun-gun-owning Canadian should be very concerned about this. A couple things come to mind. One, I see a growing trend of places that haven't, I don't know if advocating is the right word. To me, that's what it feels like they haven't been, you know, like, we live in a land of oil and gas.

Oil and gas is under attack. We live in a land of farmers. Oh, wait, farmers are under attack. I live in a land where people enjoy having guns and for the most part, albeit they grumble a bit, will do it legally and go through all the hoops you've outlined. And all three of those things are under attack. Food supply, energy, safety protection. I mean, farmers, I don't need to break down to you how many different people live out in rural country away from, you know, 9-1-1 where the response time is going to be a bit.

And that's no knock on the emergency services. It's just where they live. And so there's different issues they face. And what I tie together with those three, and I don't know if this is a reasonable, not thought, but expectation maybe is it just looks like education. Like people need to understand how important those three things are. And the fact that they're all under attack leads. to very, well, I don't know where that leads to. You've outlined a few different ways. Can you educate the Alberta public specifically enough to where non-gun owners are like, no, we need to

make sure that this doesn't continue to be eroded? Well, that's an important part of my mandate. And, you know, I was hired on a three-year contract, which, you know, a help will be renewed many times, maybe 20 or 30 times. I'm 64, so, you know, I got, I should have another 60 or 70 years left in this job, right? So you live to 120. You're doing something right. I'll say that. Well, you know, only the good die young. So I figure I'm safe. So anyway, you know, it is an important part of my mandate to get that word out. And, This past year, you know, we were for the first several months, we were in a startup phase. You know, on September 1st, a year ago, I walked into an office, an empty office.

Had no phones, no computers, no software, no databases, no files, not even any stationary. The first day we operated with the stationary I had in my briefcase. And we now have a, you know, a properly running office. I would like it to have some somewhat greater capabilities. but, you know, we had a pretty good startup, thanks to an incredible team that we have here, of people who are really dedicated to serving Albertans and showing that a flourishing firearms community and high levels of public safety are mutually compatible and mutually reinforcing goals. So, you know, for the first part, we were focused on startup.

I've had a more public profile in the last. you know, say six months. But to some extent, that's been more reactive than I would have liked because the federal government has come out with one flawed initiative after another that has targeted law-abiding firearms owners rather than the criminal element. And so I've had to speak up on those issues. But I'm hopeful that, you know, we will get past that stage and I will be able to move to a more proactive phase in my second and third years, more proactive in the sense of

helping to spread that healthy attitude towards firearms that the firearms community has to the broader public and help them to understand how important it is that measures be targeted at people who are causing problems. You know, one of the ways that I express this, the federal government has time and again targeted the wrong people, targeted, well, add more restrictions on law-abiding people rather than, because it's admittedly hard to address the criminal side of things. But the way I express this is it doesn't matter how many casts you put on a healthy arm. It won't fix a broken leg. And so, you know, if you want to fix that broken leg, the criminal element, the people who are doing

bad things, you've got to focus on them. Gun owners know if you want to hit a target, you have to actually aim at it. And aiming at something else isn't going to hit that target. Well, let's talk about that because, you know, one of the things I had on here is what is the root of the gun problem? And you've pretty much hit it on the nail on the head here. Is it the law-abiding citizen doing the majority of issues with gun violence, that type of thing? or is it the criminal element?

And if it isn't the law-abiding citizen, I mean, focusing on it, registering guns, okay. But at what point does common sense come in and go, like, listen, we've got to focus on where the problems are. And now are the problems, you know, and I call it the root of the problem, is the root of the problem with all the people who have registered, or is it somewhere else?

Well, I mean, so firearms, there are a wide variety of issues that are related to firearms that relate to public safety. So one, I mean, there's obviously there's the crime issue, which has many different aspects. You know, there's gang crime. There's, you know, other independent sort of freelancers and so on. There's also issues related to, you know, to accidents and things. like that. So each of these kinds of issues requires a separate formula to address it. And for the issues that are related, there are minor issues that come up in the in the law abiding population. I mean, we could always get people to secure their firearms better to, you know, things like that. And that's an education process. That's where education is really the appropriate measure.

And on the other side, the criminal element, unfortunately there are people who won't understand anything other than punitive measures. And I'm speaking of the criminal element here. But I think it's important to take a subtle approach to this. It's not just a matter, you can't just say, although I think firearms crimes should receive stiff penalties. It's not enough to just say, well, we'll increase a penalty for this from five years to 10 years or something like that. We need people who are actively engaged in, sorry, I'm just adjusting my headphones, have slipped off here a bit.

So we need people who are actively engaged in attempting to divert people from gang lifestyles. And I've been very impressed. I've spoken extensively with law enforcement people who are involved in, you know, gang suppression, guns and gang units and so on. And with the extremely limited resources that they have available, they're doing fantastic work. Okay. And we need to be providing them with more support. So, you know, you need things like that. But I think a large part of what's happening is related to substance abuse and addiction issues.

You know, the drug trade, people who are involved in the drug trade, that's where they have guns. And where a lot of the criminal abuse is being driven by the fact that if you are involved in the drug trade and, you know, you have a lot of valuable inventory, you have a lot of, lot of cash. You're dealing only with sketchy people on both your supply and downstream side. And you can't rely on the police because you're involved in illegal activity. It's natural for those people to want guns. And so we need to address that industry, if you want to call it that, which is driving a lot of the demand for illegal guns. And so, I mean, that's sort of outside of my sphere, but that is an important part of addressing firearms issues and slapping more restrictions on law-abiding gun owners because you're not quite sure what to do about the drug trade is, you know, you're mixing apples and oranges.

It's just not going to work. Well, it's not addressing the problem, right? It's just not addressing the problem. You know, you want to get to the root of a problem. Go find out where the problem areas are. And you said something there that I found interesting, you know, extremely, used the word extremely limited capabilities that the group that are fighting that have, like that they, you know, they don't have a whole lot to use.

Isn't that odd? Like, that police force. that they are that they're combating something that is dangerous that is becoming more and more prevalent and that they have extremely low um supplies i guess is the word i'm i'm looking resources yeah resources thank you uh like you say that and i'm like right away i mean to me you go anytime the word extremely low uh is used in something that is public safety. You want to address public safety? That's public safety right there. I don't think too many people would argue with you that drugs and crime become more prevalent. Like the amount of

drugs everywhere these days is almost mind-blowing. And you can see that in pretty much any city now at this point. Yes. Well, so this is where, you know, I want to be, I want to be balanced and fair. on certain things. Sure. So, you know, the federal government, when they introduce a package of measures, they'll always toss, you know, a small amount of money here and there at some of these issues, like helping to support gang suppression and things like that. But it's, they devote a little bit of money to that and then I propose to spend billions

on law buying firearms. buying up guns from law-abiding gun owners who don't want to give them up. So, you know, another way that I express this, you know, I mean, they have a little bit of something good and a lot of something bad. You know, here in Alberta, we know if you mix an apple pie and a cow pie, you don't get two apple pies. Okay. You know. Yeah, you could try and defend the federal government. But right now I don't have a lot of time for.

a lot of what they do. I just, I watch. I don't either. As I said, you know, they're, I'm giving credit where credit is due. They're doing a little bit. The problem is, it's a little bit. Okay. And that they're doing a little bit of good stuff and a whole lot of ridiculous stuff. And so until they mix that, you know, until they address that imbalance, you know, I'd also like to come back to something you mentioned. Sure. The prime minister talked about, you know, society being polarized. And we are, it is very unfortunate, I think, how polarized Canada has become on this and many other issues. And we're not alone. It seems to be a thing all around the world that people are getting more and more sort of polarized.

But the way to address that is to work together, not to attempt to scapegoat people. And so when you attack people and their legitimate activities and you, you know, you try and conflate them with criminals, which they are not, you shouldn't be surprised that people get angry at that. And I think there's way too much of that happening where, you know, our federal politicians have been trying to blame. people for problems that are not of their making, and rather than, and do that as a way of gaining electoral advantage because they think somehow this will play well with the people that might support them. And so criticizing polarization while actively contributing to it, to me, is not the proper approach, if you're really concerned. Hypocrisy.

Well, you use that word. I'll try and be a little more diplomatic. Well, I look at it, Terry, from the eyes of a guy who, you know, ventured into media, journalism, what have you, via podcast, right? It started out very simple. All the listeners know my story of, you know, I'm a hockey guy from going from the the Don Cherry Rahm McLean, Brian Burke, all these names of hockey lore into some of the, you know, over the past two years, it just became evident that we got to start talking about some things. And our national media sources are not doing that. And when I look at gun owners, when I look at a lot of different things and more of it's starting maybe to be talked about. But when you talk about federal politicians and what they're saying, the other thing that the part is,

of the problem is, is from a national media source, they focus on certain things as well, and it isn't balanced. And I'm not saying I do an amazing job of anything other than giving the opportunity for people to come on and talk about different things that normally don't get more of a limelight. And I just, I look at so much of it being an education instead of on an agenda. Does it mean that everyone in Canada should own a gun? No, I think you've, you know, the vetting system, is it perfect? But is it a good ability to ensure that the guns don't fall in the wrong hands?

Yeah, I think we could all agree on that. But the education from just a general standpoint of Canada, and you already said it from maybe a larger standpoint, the world, the education portion of it doesn't seem to be there. It seems to be about pushing an agenda through and getting that push and silencing another side. And then what that does is it already creates the division where you, you have us versus them.

And it's these small little pockets of population because gun owners aren't the majority in Canada. It's the minority. And so they believe, I'm just assuming, that they can continue to push this stuff with a narrative that allows more and more, you know, death by a thousand cuts, I think, we'll just slowly pull things. And it's not that big a deal and we'll keep pulling. But, you know, you keep pulling pretty soon.

There's no guns in Canada. And for a rural country, you know, like, Like we're a big, big landmass with a lot of people who live out in isolated areas. That's a, that is a concern. Well, I think, I think it is a concern. And, you know, the way, I think everyone has a part to play here. And, you know, I listen to people. I have received most of the mail that I get is people from, you know, firearms community,

but I get email from people who are not firearms owners, not in favor of firearms ownership, and I try to reach out to them and help them to understand our public safety role and how carefully we try and vet people and how we have a continuous improvement process in order to continually refine the skills of our officers in making these critical public safety decisions. And I have found that if you are willing to reach out to people, are they going to suddenly say, oh, yeah, I'd like to go out and join a gun club now? No. But it has reassured them that public safety is foremost in the activities.

of our office and foremost in my thinking and in everything that we do here. And so it takes an active effort. And when I was in the classroom, I really made an effort to try and get my students to reach out and understand the other side. I would have debates on topics. And I would tell people, I can't enforce this because I don't know what your thoughts are. But try to, taking the opposite side. Like if you're in favor of free trade, try arguing the other side. And if you're against free trade, try arguing for it, you know, in this debate. And it will help you to expand your perspectives and try and reach out and think about the other

person's point of view. And a lot of people came to me and many of them said, you know, I changed my mind. or I gained a lot more insight that way. And we need to be reaching out. We need to be trying to understand each other and not simply trying to marginalize and scapegoat others. So, Terry, if you could reach out to somebody on the other side of this issue,

who sticks out that you would love to sit and have a conversation? And not only hear their side, but maybe have a little bit of a debate. because what you said there, I think doesn't matter the issue going on in the world right now. It's not happening enough. There's not enough of listening to the other side and having a conversation. And there certainly is, I mean, geez, Louise, I don't know in the last time I saw a bunch of good debates. So if Terry could sit with somebody, who would you look at and go, I would enjoy a conversation with that person?

Well, I guess two things come to mind. the first thing is the decision makers on the federal side. I would love to sit down with people like federal minister of public safety Marco Mendocino and have a one-on-one conversation with him away from cameras, no audience, so there's no grandstanding. I did have an opportunity to speak to one of his predecessors in January of 2019, former public safety minister, Bill Blair at the time. That time he was Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

They've since split those two portfolios. That was in a, I think not the ideal forum because it was very time limited and there were like 20 people in the room and so on. But I'd like to be able to sit down and talk to people who are formulating policy on the federal side. And I'd also like to speak to be able to speak to some of the people who are anti-firearms activists. And again, I think the best approach to this to start with is to do it in private, you know, one-on-one, in person, you know, much as I appreciate how much these technology

that has enabled us to get here. I wanted to come up to your neck of the woods and my schedule just didn't allow it. It's always better in person. It's always better in person. And especially when you're trying to overcome differences. Okay. And so because then you could, you know, you can look at other person in the eye and you can give them.

So as you know, I go to gun shows and other kinds of events, public events, virtually every weekend. And so I talk to hundreds of people every weekend all over this great province, you know, from north to south, east to west, small communities and large. I've been in many communities you probably would never have heard of, even if you've lived in Alberta a long time. Okay. And I'm born and raised in Saskatchewan,

grew up in a tiny hamlet on a farming. And Saskatchewan is that on steroids. There's so many little tiny towns nobody's ever heard of except for the people who grew up there. So I totally understand what you're saying. Yeah. But, I mean, one of the things that I do, I mean, I have people come up to me. And some of the people, they say, oh, Terry, I've heard what you've been saying. I love it.

You know, I want to shake your hand, want to thank you. And other people are angry because of one thing or another. And I talk to them one on one. I look them straight in the eye. and so they know I'm not being evasive. And, you know, sometimes they come up rather hostile. I talk them down. They sort of eventually end up, you know, being somewhat more favorably inclined.

I've actually had many of them come up later and say, Terry, I want to apologize to you because, you know, I was really worked up when I came to see you. And, you know, I realized that you are working for the public good. and, you know, I was a bit out of line. So I have some experience at dealing with people who are upset, who are concerned. I have a longstanding and deeply rooted belief that until we are prepared to talk to one another in a civil fashion, We will never overcome the differences in the polarization that are plaguing this country. And I want to play a part in that. You know, what you said there is why I think a lot of it needs to be captured.

Instead of just in a back room, Terry, I think I'm really harsh on politicians because all I see from where I sit is them yell at each other and that's it. And I call these these are elected officials. When you see the leaders of a country and that's all they do, I mean, it filters down. And we don't have debate. We've censored that. We don't openly have civil discussions. I think it's starting to happen more, but not nearly enough. So people can see people who disagree and have these discussions go back and forth and then walk away and go, I may not agree.

with you on everything, but I appreciate you sitting down and exposing your ideas to me, etc. And I think that would be very, very, very, very healthy for our entire population, probably for the entire world at this point. But speaking of just Alberta or the West, because I sit in Lloydminster right on the border, and so I have this real funny perch from, you know, seeing Saskatchewan and Alberta, I think what you talk about right there would be healthy for everyone. I think that would be exceptional to have open,

dialogue, respectful dialogue, back and forth for public consumption so they could see that happened. Because, I mean, literally, we don't have any of that rate. Well, I think one of the things that, you know, I've been to Ottawa a number of times. I'm actually, I like Ottawa. I don't like the stuff that's coming out of Ottawa, but I like Ottawa as a place. There's lots of history, museums, and the and the buzz of being in the House of Commons and seeing, you know, where decisions are made, you know, to me, it's a very, very attractive and appealing thing. And one of the things I think that can, would pay, is very important is for, you know, those politicians to, to not meet in the

House of Commons only where they have to play to the cameras and, you know, to their other, to their caucuses and so on. But where they can get together, perhaps over a beverage, you know, possibly one that I personally favor, possibly something. To the people who are listening, Terry is a fan of Diet Pepsi. and I've been teasing her about it since we started anyways. If you're just listening, she's got a bottle of diapapaphy. Yeah.

So, you know, or something stronger if people are so inclined. Sometimes that even helps. And if we could have people sit down, become somewhat more civil in person, my hope is that that would then, you know, help to carry over into, the House of Commons and other more public fora. I understand there will always be a heated cut and thrust of debate.

I try to be a very reasonable and moderate person, but if I'm pushed, you will find that I am not incapable of the cut and thrust of debate. But we need to keep that on a respectful keel. keep the focus on issues rather than personalities as much as possible. And I probably have not always been perfect on that score myself. It's hard sometimes, you know, when you're very passionate about an issue to completely keep it on a non-emotional basis. but I really think that that's an important thing to strive for, at least.

Yeah, as human beings, we're emotional, right? I mean, we're guided by emotions. That's pretty much, you know, doesn't mean that you can't try and master some of that, right? But at the same time, you know, like it doesn't matter what part of society you go into. it doesn't matter what issue you talk about. Emotions play a huge part in that. And that is just a very human thing. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I get emotional what I talk about some of these things. Sometimes in our conversation already, I've had to take a pause and just swallow in order to be able to continue. Because I believe very passionately in these things, I believe we can do better. We can have a safer, and more civil society. That includes gun ownership.

Exactly. Well, I mean, the most civil people that I ever meet are gun owners. You know, they, they are, you know, one of the most, one of the things that, um, I've, you know, I have a bunch of sort of stock jokes that I pull out. But I, I want, I often, um, suggest to people that, um, you know, gun owners are the most accepting people there are because all they ask is like one question. You like guns? Hey, you're in.

You know, they don't care if you're young or old, short or fat, you know, what color your skin is or where you worship or whether you worship. Hey, you like guns, you're in. And so, you know, of course, they, they're very used to dealing with the people who are not gun owners as well. So, you know, I think gun owners have got a bad rap because, I mean, there's always a few, few, you know, noisy exceptions to the rule. But gun owners, I think, are among the best people that you're going to meet. And we need to get that message out there. You know, your motion may surprise listeners.

but when I think about it, I think, you know, am I a huge target shooter and do I go to the range every single weekend and do I do things like that? Answer is no. But if that is your lifestyle, it would be like saying to me, you're not allowed to go to the hockey rink anymore.

Hockey, you know, it's way too dangerous a sport and let's just phase it out and be done with it. When I built a lifestyle around that, that would be a very, very difficult. And I think if people take the last two years, you know, people who made different choices on a lot of different things over the last two years specifically. I think they can relate real fast to what you're talking about with gun owners. And I just, you never think about the person who that is their lifestyle.

That is their hobby. Maybe that's their social outing. Maybe that's a group of friends that they go meet every single Thursday or whatever day it is of the week. Well, that's one of the things that people don't fully appreciate. I think people who are not part of the community tend to think of, you know, gun owners as similar to, well, people who have to happen to own an electric drill, you know, or something like that. It's not that. It is the basis of a whole community. And all of my friends, you know, well, not all of them, but I do have a few friends outside.

But, you know, that's where the bulk of my friends are. I missed them when public health restrictions made it impossible to hold gun shows for a while. And let me tell you a little story about a couple of people that had a big impact on. So as I mentioned, I went to a cowboy action shoot in Vermilion in June. Vermilion actually has a lot of good memories for me because that's where my appointment was announced. So that's where I got this great job. And there's a whole community that has sprung up around that. And for those who aren't familiar with it,

cowboy action shooting involves shooting single-action revolvers of the technology used in the late 1800s, as well as lever action rifle, mostly lever action, some pump-action rifles. and mostly double-barreled shotguns with a few pumps and so on and lever actions. So old-style guns, and people really get into it. They dress up in costumes. They have nicknames that they go by.

And there's a whole fraternity, a whole community there. And this includes people of all ages. And two that particularly struck me were a pair of, ladies in their 80s, okay, and they were dressed in period costume, you know, big flowing skirts and so on and so forth, and doing cowboy action shooting with their, you know, single action revolvers and so on. And afterwards, when we got to talking, they said, you know, the federal government is attacking our sport. You know, they were quite upset. This was their sport. one of them was a grandmother, the other was a great grandmother, still active competitors

in this wonderful sport. And they were, you know, they were part of a community that traveled around from event to event. Virtually every weekend, they were out at an event somewhere around. They would be camping out. They'd have their trailers and so on. Bring up after the shoot was over, they'd go and start a little campfire. and, you know, relive the day's events and, you know, all the shots that they almost made. And, you know, their plans, some of them were, some of them volunteered and they stowed costumes for each other.

You know, because not everybody, boy, I'm sure glad that I would, I wouldn't even attempt to, like, I can, I can maybe put a button back on, but I could never make a costume, okay? but some of them who had seamstress skills, they were making costumes for other people. And, you know, if somebody's gun broke, they would, you know, oh, here, use mine, you know. Yeah, a healthy community is what you're, what you're describing, right? And a lot of, you know, and once again,

this is why I think debate, open conversation, having two people with different perspectives, trying to see everybody's, you know, trying to look at things from everybody's perspective. is so healthy for a group of people. But specifically for a community. Communities are healthy. I mean, everybody wants to be, we're human beings.

We want to be a part of communities. Human interaction is healthy for all of us. All we've got to talk about is the lockdowns and the mental health that's come from isolating people. How big of an issue that is caused on the world. And it's not even going to be some small feat to correct that over the next decade, two decades, lifetime, whatever it is. And what you're talking about is just a healthy community of people who are enjoying something that is not causing any harm to anyone. And that is being taken away almost not overnight, but I get what you're laying down, Terry. Well, I apologize for getting a bit overwrought on this topic.

But, you know, it's, I have people come up to me and they are, you know, they're bewildered at like, why are they're. doing this to us? You know, they can't imagine why they are being targeted. And that's why I have, you know, repeatedly suggested that some of the people who are formulating policy at the federal level come with me and meet these people and see the real impact of people who are going to lose their sport, people who are going to lose their sport, people who are going to lose. their retirement nest egg, people who had planned on passing on precious family heirlooms to errors and will now be prevented from doing that by this handgun transfer ban. You know, this is, there are so many personal impacts of this that I don't think have really

been taken into account by the people who are making these policies. I see that because I'm out there. I'm every, you know, virtually every week. I work seven days a week, okay? I'm out there all the time talking to people. And so I see these impacts. And I just wish that the people who are coming up with these ideas in Ottawa would recognize that. And I fully recognize, you know, I understand the pain of,

of people who have lost loved ones to firearms violence. But attacking people who had nothing to do with that problem is not going to help them or anyone else to feel any better. Yeah. Well, let's, I had, I put it out on Twitter that I was, I was having you on, Terry. And so I got a whole bunch of questions that came in through that. So I thought that's a good segue into especially the first one. I do a show on Tuesdays, the Tuesday mashup.

And Tuesdays had asked this question. He said, given to how prominent gun control debates are, why is there so little reporting on the legality of firearm possession and relevant crimes? Why does it seem like people hold that information back? So when there's a crime, why do they not announce that it was an illegal firearm or it was a gun owner? that did it. Does that make sense? Yes. Well, I think there's there are two issues involved there. So one is my understanding, and I'm not a law enforcement officer, okay, but my understanding is that when there is an active investigation, that they are very limited in the information they are

allowed to disclose. And so one of the things that we do is when we hear of a case, we will investigate that and see, you know, was this person a client of ours, almost always the case that they are not. But, you know, they are often, law enforcement is often limited in what they are allowed to release legally without jeopardizing an investigation. and we've already seen this come out in, you know, with the Nova Scotia issue. I was just about to say, Lucky and the federal government seemed to have a different way of going about that, but that's for a different time and a different place maybe. But yes, certainly I think the listener and most of Canada that's been following that have seen the news reporting around Commissioner Lucky and that group in regards to Nova Scotia, the mask there.

The other thing that I think affects that coverage is what are people interested in? And so, you know, the thing that will get people's attention, I mean, the media is a cutthroat business. I'm sure that, you know, you're in a very serene part of that and not subject to any of those pushes and polls. but, you know, the legacy media, mainstream media, whatever you want to call them, that's a cutthroat business and they need to get eyeballs, they need to get clicks, they need to get coverage, and reports about shootings and so on are the kind of thing that will attract attention. I'll tell you, though, the kind of impact that this has, a few years ago, well before I became Chief Firearms Officer, I was talking to the fairly elderly, in other words, older than me, parents of a friend of mine, and they were retired, lived in a mobile home park, and basically all day long they watched CNN. and they were afraid to leave the trailer.

And I said, well, like, how many, you know, they said, well, it's so dangerous out there. There's so many murders. How many, well, I said, well, how many murders do you think there are in Calgary in a year? And they said, oh, a couple of thousand, you know. And well, I mean, the numbers maybe a couple of dozen. And so I don't have the exact number, but it's in, it's in dozens. Okay. So it's in two figures, not four figures.

So what happened was they watched CNN all day. They saw reports of every shooting that happened in North America and they thought they were, and they saw it repeated on a half hour or hourly cycle. And they thought all of those were happening in Calgary. Calgary records 19 homicides in 2021. Seven remained unresolved or unsolved. Well, there you go. A couple of dozen was not far off.

Yeah, but when you talk about media and focusing solely into it, the fear that is sold on a daily basis is paralyzing. You see it happen over and over and over again. And to a lot of people, you just need to turn it off and go enjoy a sunny day and meet your neighbors and say hello and do bad things happen. Yeah, but you'd rather have bad things happen with a community that knows one another so you can stomp it out compared to where everybody's isolated, nobody talks to anyone, and they just follow the tubes, so to speak, and that allows bad things to persist.

Well, you know, I've lived in the same community. I've lived in Calgary now for over 30 years. I have an apartment in Edmonton. I'm speaking to you from Edmonton because our biggest office is here. But I've lived in Calgary for a long time. And, you know, even though. it's a very safe community, old, long established community, you tend to know very few of your neighbors. And, you know, thank God for pets, because the only way we ever get to meet people is, oh, well, that's Fluffy's owner, you know, or that's Brownie's Dad, you know, or things like that.

You go for a walk and you meet people who are walking their dog. and we have cats and so they like to perch in the front window and everybody knows us as the people with the two cats in the window. Yeah, there's, I think everybody can relate over the last two years. I mean, obviously, everybody was terrified to everyone. We had a garage sale at the house and the amount of people that came over from the neighborhood was wild and everybody just wanted to come say hello, right? And so simple little things like that, not suggesting everybody go have a garage sale tomorrow.

But, you know, coming from the farm, meeting your neighbors, and I'm no, like, I'm no perfect on this. But meeting your neighbors and getting to know one another is really good for your, not only your mental well-being, knowing who lives beside you, who you can run to, if there is an issue looking out for one another. But it creates a little bit of a community, but camaraderie and the framework of where you live and where your kids are at and everything else. It's very, very healthy for people to get to know one another. And, you know, once again, if you can facilitate that just by walking your dogs, certainly, there's different ways that everyone should try and explore because it's funny when you start to meet people around you, you find out you're surrounded by a lot of good people. I'm not saying that'll be across the board for everyone, but a lot of people are just good people

that are, you know, hit away from one another, especially in cities. Yeah. And, you know, when you, when you meet people, like, I think part of the problem is that we tend to meet people who are only like us, you know, like I meet gun owners. I meet other people meet people who are in, my, my husband is a car nut. So I also meet a ton of car nuts. Okay. And so, you know, we meet people who are from our own social circles, our own, socio-economic groups and so on. And the more different communities we can each be part of and help to break down those barriers between people, I think the healthier our society is going to be. Yeah, that along with, I think traveling is a really good thing too. Just speaking Canada in general, right? I was and I don't mean this to my parents because I don't think that's where it stem from.

I just think as a Western culture, we hate the East. And yeah, if you go to the East, there's so many good people there. And as a country, we have this big landmass where you can go see, oh man, the amount of landscape change and diversity in our own culture is wild. And so I think that would help a lot of people too if you just went out and experienced things. Instead of just being told about it over and over again, go out and experience. some of it and meet some people and see the different parts of our country and everything else. That would help as well, Terry. Yeah, well, I agree.

I've driven back and forth several times between, you know, from on, I've driven from, basically from BC to Quebec, that area, many times. This, as I mentioned earlier, I went to Miramishie, New Brunswick, was my first time to New Brunswick. And, you know, you'll often hear me talk. about how I'm not necessarily satisfied with the current division of responsibilities between the federal government and their operations in Miramishie and us. But I'll tell you, when I went to Miramishie and I met the people there, like, they were probably the,

like, it's hard to imagine how one could be friendlier. It was like, oh, wow, thanks for coming here, you know, like, I mean, people were just amazing. And my deputy is of Irish descent and with a very Irish name. And Mir Mishina, Brunswick is the Irish capital of Canada. And as we pulled in, he said, oh, Irish capital of Canada, well, he should have some flags. The next thing you know, as it turned out, it was Irish festival weekend. And every building was covered in Irish flags, which I told him they had put out just in honor of his visit. but you know you see things like that and and meeting people i've met you know the other

chief firearms officers in person you know that in-person contact um that enables people to have disagreements but still be friendly go out for a drink later you know that i think is really critical um and we would have a better society um i know they've recently come out saying now you shouldn't drink at all, but there might be some enough social benefits to the odd exception to that to justify an occasional glass of beer or a dram of something stronger. I agree. The funny thing, I was just chuckling. They like to come out and say you can't do a whole lot of things.

And anyways, that seems to be the way of the world right now. Michael Tomlinson asked, are the firearms officers, who approve and re-certified ranges in Alberta appointed by you or your office or by the feds. Is that made? Yes. Currently, us. Okay. Now, up until last September 1st, they were the feds.

The people who do ranges now are officers of, they come from my office. We do have to follow federal guidelines, some of which are. have a certain novel element to me, but yes, they are people from our office. And we have taken that, you know, there is quite, that's one of the areas where I think there's the biggest difference in the transition from federal to provincial, because we've tried to work with ranges.

We want there to be more ranges, not less ranges. We want to help keep ranges open. And so we've worked with them to work out plans. If they can't comply fully now, let's work out a plan to gradually bring you into compliance with the new requirements and things like that. So we want there to be more ranges, not less. Because if people don't have ranges, then they may end up shooting in places that are less safe than range. And so, you know, people don't always fully realize the potential. safety risks in informal shooting in in places other than approved ranges.

And so it's, it is important that we keep as many ranges open as possible. There's also a place where, again, that healthy firearms culture is developed. Speaking of ranges, he also had asked, is it Alberta CFO policy to require range construction and design? features over and above the official RCMP guidelines prior to approval or recertification? Well, the guidelines that

we follow are the guidelines of the national program. So there are I'm not sure what that person is getting at. But as a general statement, I would say no, we want people to meet those

requirements. However, you know, sometimes we can find an alternate way, for example, of meeting some of those requirements. Old timer asked, will Albertans be able to buy and sell handguns in Alberta? Or will Albertan firearms retailers be able to import handguns? Or is that done? So I'm assuming that This is talking about after the proposed handgun transfer ban comes into effect. So first of all, that ban is not in effect yet. It might never come into effect. You never know with politics. We could have a federal election at any time.

You know, they might decide once the main opposition party's leadership contest is decided they want to spring an election as soon as possible before the opposition has time to mobilize. You never know, so it's not done yet. Then, assuming that law is passed and is not amended from its current form, which could also happen, okay, because there could still be amendments to that law. There are certain exemptions, which are fairly narrow, but there is. some flexibility in how they could be interpreted from province to province. So, for example, there is an exemption for people who are going to be, who require a firearm for thinking of the exact wording, but basically training, coaching, or competing in a sport

on the program of the International Olympic Committee or the Paralympic Committee. Now, that does not mean only people who are going to make the National Olympic team. Okay. Now, some provinces might choose to interpret it that narrowly, but Alberta will not be one of those provinces. Truth Hertz wants to know what is plan to fight the government in Canada if it goes through? Is there anything you can do if these bans go through? if it's court, is there just, you know, is there just ways to, in your position that you can advocate, push back?

I mean, you've mentioned a lot of these different things through the course of our chat here, but if the law does go through, is there a way for you to fight back? Well, the main, I'm going to be a little bit evasive on this issue for, a reason that I hope your listeners will understand. And that is that sometimes it's best not to reveal one's hand too completely. Okay. And there are things that can be done. I have alluded to one of them.

So, for example, how broadly does one interpret the exceptions? And so it is, I do not have a magic. wand that I can just wave and say, okay, federal laws, you don't apply here. You know, please go away. Okay. But we will be exploring every avenue that is available to us to prevent as much as possible the implementation of the confiscation and compensation scheme for for firearms that have been prohibited to provide as much scope as possible for legitimate sporting activities to continue within the framework of the new legislation. That will definitely be much less convenient.

It will require much more work on our part. But as long as I have the resources available, I will be using every avenue that I can to ensure that the shooting sports continue as much as possible under any handgun ban or handgun transfer ban until the day, hopefully in the near future, when we can get that repealed. Lee Noble asked How will banning legally purchased Restricted Handguns or Long Guns actually help keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

It won't. Do you need more elaboration? I don't. I pause for a fact because I saw that question coming and I was curious. I mean, this is what I have actually written to Minister,

Mr. Marco Mendocino about, you know, that, that banning legal ownership will not, you know, and banning legal import of guns will not affect the illegal import of guns. So, you know, who was upset when they announced this? All of the people who represent legitimate law-abiding target shooters and competitors and so on, I did not see many people from illegal motorcycle gangs and other people engaged in smuggling.

I didn't see them coming out and saying, oh, no, we're going to be out of business. That didn't happen. I may have missed it. You're more attuned to the media. Did I miss something there? Well, I was actually curious if you saw Mendocino's comments about, moving on from that exact talking point. Basically, I was trying to pull it up here because we literally just talked about it,

that someone had asked him, you know, how will this, you know, what about legal gun owners? And he said, we have to move on from that talking point. Like this issue is, you know, and now I'm paraphrasing because I can't, I'm trying to pull it up, Terry, as we go along here. But he had, basically, you got to move on from this talking point, except it's so relevant. Yeah. Well, to me, that shows the bankruptcy of an argument. If the best you can do to counter an argument is to say, well, let's move on from that. Clearly, you have no legitimate response to that point. I think so, right? And that's, you know, when you talk about having a conversation with him behind closed doors, I would love to be in that room to hear exactly what he would say, you know, when he's pressed a lot. little harder because, you know, he doesn't have a really good response to it. I don't think

there is a really good response to it other than what you've said today. I mean, you can't, whatever his, whatever the other capabilities of the federal policy makers might be, pulling rabbits out of the hat is not one of them. If there is no legitimate response, one can hardly expect them to come up with one. So here, here, here's exactly what he said. When asked how he would respond to the notion that some of these gun control measures unfairly target licensed owners, the minister simply says move past the talking point. He says it's an old talking point and doesn't move the discussion forward. That's what he says.

Yeah. Well, thank you. You have some wonderful technology there. I'm just relying on what's in my pretty little red head here. Well, I want you to hear, I don't want to feed you information and then have you talk about. something that he didn't say and certainly I didn't realize we were going to go this way, but to have it ready and

available for you to actually talk to what he said, I think is really pertinent because once again, he's trying to point out that it's an old talking point that, you know, you've got to move forward that the gun debate doesn't talk about legal firearms owners

and that point makes no sense. Well, maybe we should suggest that the banning of, that he has to move on from the banning of that the implements used by law-abiding sports people. Well, I tell you what, once again...

That's an old, that's an old issue. We need to move on from that. That's an old approach. They've been trying, now look, if you think about it, talking about old approaches, we've been banning guns in Canada since 1977.

And it hasn't worked yet. Okay. When will they recognize? recognize that's going down the wrong road. As the saying goes, if you're in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. And instead, they seem determined to not only not stop digging, but to bring out the power equipment and accelerate the process. I agree.

Well, I've appreciated you giving me a bunch of your time, Terry. One final question. The final question brought to you by Crude Master. I showed it to Heath and Tracy McDonnell. They've been supporters of the podcast at the very beginning. He says, if you're going to stand behind a cause that you think is right, then stand behind it absolutely. I think we've learned a lot about what Terry stands behind.

But what's one thing Terry stands behind? Well, I guess I think I mentioned this point along the way. But I very firmly believe that a flourishing firearms community and the highest levels of public safety are mutually compatible and mutually reinforcing goals. We do not have to choose one or the other. We can have both. Well, I appreciate you sitting down and doing this with me, Terry. It's been enjoyable.

And I got to give a show to Clay Smiley at Provett River. He's the one that helped hook this all up. I walked in. He supports the podcast as well. And I walked in, said, who do I talk to about this? And of course, now here we sit. And I appreciate you once again, giving me so much of your time. And we'll see where the future takes us.

Either way, thanks again for hopping on. Well, I appreciate the opportunity. It's always a pleasure. And if you see Clay, say hi. I don't get up to Lloyd Minster as often as I would like, but it's a great part of the world. Thanks, Terry. Okay, thank you. Bye now.