Shaun Newman Podcast - #356 - Tracey Wilson

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

She is the VP of public relations for Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights (CCFR). We discuss Bill C-21. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

I'm Alex Craneer. This is Sarah Swain. This is Terry Clark. This is Tom Corsky. I'm Trish Wood. This is Dr. Peter McCullough. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome on the podcast, folks.

Happy Monday. Hope everybody had a great weekend. We got a little U-7 hockey and actually multiple, multiple days. Got to see my little baby nephew. It was a good weekend. I know across Canada there's some things going on and we're going to try and track down some of them stories. for all of you paying attention, there's a lot going on and we'll try and shed some light on it as we go along through the week.

Hopefully we can get some of those on. I got some exciting news. The first sponsor of today's show, Borgo Tillagintosh and of course they're part of, you know, they've got all their members. Joseph and Ryan Olson are part of Canaan's for Truth. So they're signed back on there. The first sponsor signed back on for 2023. I'm excited for that. pretty cool relationship of, I don't know, somehow, you know, you meet people along the road

and you wonder how on earth it ever happened. And the group from Borgatilage Tools is certainly no exception to that role. So very excited to have them back. And I just want to give a shoutout to them. And I want to kind of throw out a message, too, if you're a business owner looking for different ways to advertise or maybe you want to support something locally, or whatever, what have you, reach out to me because we're, this is the busy, I say this is always the busy time of the year, December,

as we try and fill up for 2023 and make sure the podcast is healthy and going along. So if that teases you at all, give me numbers in the show notes, so shoot me a text. Always love sitting down with different people to, you know, see what the rise and has. Either way, excited to have Joseph and Ryan back along with the Canaan's for Truth team. on Mondays, so that's exciting times, and hopefully I'll be able to announce more of this as we go along. Here, starting off the Monday, episode, Canadians for Truth, they're a non-profit organization consisting of Canadians who believe in honesty, integrity, and principled leadership in the government, as well as Canadian Bill Rights, Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and Rule of Just Laws.

Jamie and Theo have a show coming up here. Thursday night in, oh man, it's Shurred Park, Sammington. somewhere right around there. They got Erdur Polowski on stage again by request by a bunch of people, so they're back with their first show as making another appearance. So I might just dabble up to that on Thursday. I'm not going to lie, I might go take a little peek. I've heard lots about it, so I might take a stroll on that way and see what's going on. For you, if you want to find out more about what they're doing, if you want to get tickets to their next show, CanadiansforTruth.ca. Or CanadiensforTruth on Facebook.

you can get it all caught up. Profit River, Clay Smiley and the team over there, they're specializing in importing firearms from the United States of America and pride themselves in making the process as easy for all their customers, as humanly possible. As you're going to hear in today's one, everything going on in the gun world is, oh, I don't know. I don't know if I have the word for it.

Odd, strange, you know, kind of like the rest of Canada in a bunch of different sectors. And I got to sit with Clay and Ed on, I think it was Thursday. Thursday morning and we were sitting and chatting about it. So hopefully, you know, over the next couple weeks, today Tracy's on and we're hoping to have a few others to talk about it, get you guys up to speed on what's going on, and kind of get you in the loop. If you're into guns and you're looking for somebody who can get you on the straight and arrow,

just go to Profitriver.com. They are the major retailer of firearms, optics, and accessories serving all of Canada. Yeah, that's right. Anywhere you're listening to, and I know I got you find folks all over, every province. If you're looking for somebody to get you hooked up, Profitriver.com,

there's nobody better than Clay Smiley and his team. They'll get you hooked up. Tracy and Tyson Mitchell with Mitchco Environmental. They're a family-owned business that has been providing professional vegetation management services

for both Alberta and Saskatchewan, the oil field and industrial sector since 1998. They're hiring, you know, I say that, and I laugh in the back of my head. I mean, I'm kind of like, well, they're hiring,

but their busy season is at the end of the university semesters, right? So you're looking at beginning of May roughly in that time frame. They go on a huge hiring spray. So if you're a student out there and you're looking for summertime work and you want to make some good coin, Michko is a place to be once upon a time. Even this cat suited up and went to work for them. Go check them out. MitchcoCorp.C.A.

or if you're really interested, give them a call, 780214, 4,004. Carly and the team over at Windsor Plywood. They are the builders of the podcast studio table for everything wood. And I mean when you're talking some cool pieces, these are the guys. You know, whether we're talking mantles, decks, windows, doors, or sheds, or heck, a podcast studio table. Look no further than Windsor plywood. I was saying to my brother actually today, you know, had Windsor at the Christmas show with Sean the Comer as the headlining comedian there a couple weekends ago.

and you know I think Windsor is maybe the second sponsor I ever had and they came in with this table and we talked about the idea and then they built it when it was finally built you're like oh man this is a chunk of and I remember joking with I'm like well I'm not going to go out and build a new one and I certainly haven't because it has stood up to the test of time or I mean it's only four years in but at the same time they've they've never backed away from sponsoring the the podcast and excited to hopefully have you know not only Windsor but everybody else back on. It's been a cool relationship. You slowly start to build with these people. And once again, I always have people in looking at the studio table and they're like, man, this is a chunk of wood. And I tell you what, when you're looking for chunks of wood, don't look any further than Windsor plywood. Gartner Management. They're Lloydminster-based company

specializing all types of rental properties. Help meet your needs, whether you're looking for an office, a small office like this, you know, converted. I was telling somebody the other day, you know, converted like it's like a 12 by 12 into a studio, and it has been home now for a little over a year, almost a year and a half, geez, where did the time go? And if you're looking for something, you know, a small office like that, he can get you hooked up. Or, you know, if you need something bigger, he's got options there as well. All you got to do is give Wade Gartner a call at 780808, 5025. Now let's get on that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years.

They've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, meth, ethanol, chemicals, delivering to your farm commercial, oil field locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock, Petroleum.com. Petroleum.com. She's the VP of Public Relations for CCFR, Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights. I'm talking about Tracy Wilson. So buckle up. Here we go. This is Tracy Wilson from the CCFR, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by Tracy Wilson. So first off, ma'am, Thanks for hopping on. Hey, no problem.

Thanks for the opportunity. You know, I mentioned your name to a couple of guys before I was walking in. They knew exactly who you were, but I'm going to assume there's going to be a good chunk of the audience that doesn't know who Tracy is. So why don't we start with a little bit of your background, Tracy, you can, you know, take it wherever you like and then we'll hop into it. Sure. Well, I'm the vice president of public relations for the CCFR, which is the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights. and I'm a registered federal lobbyist. So when you hear the Trudeau-Liberal government

speak about the big bad gun lobby, it's literally a Chihuahua owning grandma from the suburbs of Ottawa. So, yeah, we're a military family. My husband served for over 22 years. My dad served 32 years with the Air Force. And my youngest daughter is 20 years old, and she's a corporal in the Canadian military.

So I've lived all across this country in every single province, We had 21 postings in 23 days in 23 years. So, yeah, we moved everywhere, and I've been everywhere. And, yeah, I'm just looking for a government that will have fair and effective public safety legislation for gun owners. And credible work to combat crime violence and gun smuggling. That's the gist of it. It honestly doesn't sound like that big of an ask.

I got to bring you back, though, 21 postings in 23 years. So what did you learn from that, from that time? Because most people, you know, get settled in and stay in the same spot. And, you know, I would poke and prod them, you know, you've got to go out and see parts of the world. You've got to experience some things. You're the flip. You're the absolute opposite of that. What did you learn from being all over this country?

And then I might extend that. Did you go across the seas as well or was it all in Canada? My father was posted overseas in Germany before, but we didn't go with them. We stayed here. But what I learned was how different this country is from one end to the other, yet how much we have in common. It is the most beautiful country in the world. And the other thing, the negative part, I would say, that I didn't realize when I was younger. But now that, of course, I'm older.

I'm a mother and a grandmother. But I realize now I have a lot of friends and they've got childhood friends that they grew up with and, you know, friends since grade two. And that's impossible for me because we moved every single year, right? So I never went to the same school for more than one year at a time. So I was constantly the new kid and sometimes those posting sort of stacked up on each other and we never even got through the school year. So you learn to be a little bit resilient. and, you know, you learn to just adapt and make friends no matter where you are. Did you ever get to, did you get used to that?

I mean, like, did you ever just land in a spot where you're like, man, I just don't want to leave here? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember we were actually in Sioux Lookout in Ontario. I know people may laugh when I say that's the place I wanted to stay. But I was getting to that age where I was starting to make really close relationships with friends. And it was, you know, not just being the new kid, but it was people I genuinely. loved and I wanted I wanted to to stay with them right so it was heartbreaking leaving there but I think

they were closing the base at the time or something but my dad being in the air force he was radar tech um so he developed a lot of the north warning system and all that stuff so a lot of our postings weren't even to like really cool big centers you know like we've been everywhere from punsy mountain to sue lookout to everywhere so it's usually remote northern communities. Now you mentioned you might have a good insight on this. I've been having this discussion you know over over the course of however many episodes now 350 plus of you know whether Canada can survive and you mentioned an interesting little phrase there we're different yet we have so much in

common obviously I think our differences are pretty evident at this point what are some of the things you think Canada Canadians have in common you You know, they can pull us all together. Well, I think a general love for our country, I mean, I've always been, you know, you've got, Quebec's talked about separation before, and then, of course, there's a lot of sentiment in the West, and I totally get it. They are not getting a fair shake here in Ottawa, so I understand it. But I've always just thought it would be horrific to see the country torn apart.

So do I think it's savable? Yes, not with this government. I think that wedge-stigmatized divide-type policy and playbook is typical of this government, and that's why they have these weak and minority governments. But I think most of all, I think across Canada, Canadian people are the most generous or the most helpful. I think the real divide, there's a lot of divide between urban and rural. rural, you know, the way of life. Living out in the country, of course, is extremely different than living in an urban center

like Toronto or Ottawa or even Montreal, Vancouver. But I think maybe we've lost the way to understand each other and to appreciate each other. I know I've lived in cities and I've lived in rural communities and you always sort of want to go to the other one, right? So, you know, you're living in the city and when you want to get away on the weekends, you want to go to the country. And then when you're a country person on the weekends come, well, you want to go to town, right?

So I think we've sort of lost that. And instead of coming together, we are definitely separated. But I think it is repairable. I don't think it'll be repaired under this government. Yeah, it's interesting. I agree with you. Under this government,

they continue to try and wedge all the different different parts of the population against each other. And any time you've got a leader pointing out all the differences, you're not going to get together and go kumbaya. I mean, in saying that, you make it rough enough, Tracy, and then the Freedom Convoy goes, and then maybe it does pull everybody back together. But here we are, you know, geez, not a year after,

but months, several months after, closing it on a year. and the dividing tactics are continued. And it leads me to bringing you on because, you know, I come from a background, a rural background. Now I live in the city. But I certainly understand, I think, enough about guns and hunting and all that good stuff. And I see what's being said and I see what's being done.

And then I watch actually you folks and some of your talks you've had. And I'm like, all right, it's high time I had. somebody on to talk a little bit more in depth about this because me sitting here watching it, I go, I need somebody who knows the ins and outs of this, can break it down and explain what the heck is going on here, you know, and of course I'm talking B, Bill C-21 and the liberal government, you know, I don't know. My buddy, Quick Dick McDick does his video and it blows up and I watch it and I go, wow, that is like wild. It's crazy. Yeah. But maybe we could just start with what you you're seeing and you know and we'll see where it goes Tracy I appreciate you you know lending me your

brain for this because I I won't need to educate myself as well well well look I think I could very easily speak for all Canadians when I say that we've got we've got some crime problems going on we've got a violence problem so we've got a 92% increase in gang homicide since Trudeau took power we've got a 33% increase overall of all types of violence since 2015. And the problem is there's a cost to ignoring that, and that can be measured in human lives. But what this government does is instead of looking at it as an opportunity to put forward policy or public safety policy that would credibly reduce those things, they're like, well, wait a minute here, let's capitalize on that. let's exploit people's fears and let's make it all about guns because it's an incredible weapon when you're in an election we saw during the last federal election conservative leader

Aaron O'Toole you know he he was doing great he came out of the gates he was pulling well everything was great and what did Trudeau do he hung a you know reversal of a gun ban and told um Canadians that he Aaron O'Toole would be putting assault weapons in the streets of our are cities and towns, and it's just, it's bazonkers to listen to when you know what the truth is about the gun debate in Canada. And look, if we want to have a talk about what is appropriate or legitimate for civilian use for hunting or sporting, we can do that. But that's an entirely different conversation than how to reduce the violent crime that we're seeing, because there's no correlation between the huge rise in violent crime and legal gun owners. So, you know,

they've weaponized fear of Canadians and used gun owners who probably aren't likely to vote for them anyways, so they don't mind using us. And the problem is they've stepped in at this time because it's one thing when they came after us with the ban on the AR-15. You know, it's a notorious rifle. People say, well, why do you even need that? You know, nobody realizes it actually works the exact same as my hunting rifles, semi-auto, limited to five rounds, but it's just not powerful enough to take down a deer, so we don't hunt with it. In fact, in most jurisdictions in Canada, it's just far too small of a caliber. And I tell people that, and they think I'm crazy, right? But they went after the AR-15s, and there wasn't any public pushback at all, really. Because people,

people just don't understand. And then they come after the handguns, which are literally used in an Olympic sport. And Canada does really well on the world stage. In fact, the majority of our Olympic shooting team are women. So, you know, forget that. We don't need that either. Nobody else needs to buy handguns or get into handgun sports. And, you know, that wasn't far enough for them. So under pressure from anti-gun lobby groups, what do they do? They walk in with this crazy amendment, which is dropped at all the wrong time in this bill. If they wanted to do it, they should have introduced it with the bill. They introduced it as an amendment, which is so far outside the scope of the bill,

that it, you know, it's preposterous that it's even in there. And, of course, now they're suffering the backlash of that. You've got hunters coming out against it. You've got the hunting groups. You've got, you know, the First Nations communities are threatening legal action. In fact, just today, Jagmeet Singh, leader. of the NDP said that his party would not be supporting the gun ban that's been stuck into C-21.

So you've got the government floundering around trying to figure out what it's going to do because that weaponizing of the gun debate has sort of been taken away now by their own fault because they've included hunters, indigenous hunters, rural folk, you know, it's not just about sports shooting now. So, yeah, that's kind of where we're at. there's that statement out today by Jagmeet Singh and I think it should be assigned to this government that they've you know they have used up all their political capital on the wrong idea and it's time to refocus on making Canada safer country.

Why is it that most of the public doesn't get what's going on? Is it, you know, I've got several thoughts in my brain. I go, maybe they don't own guns, so they equate, you know, I understand how fear works. I think a lot of us do over the course of the last few years and certainly how this government is active. When it comes to guns, is it just part of the population doesn't understand why you would need one? Is it because we focus so much of our time on American news, entertainment, etc., where, you know, they have different laws, different problems in the states compared to Canada?

Is it just all contributing? Is there something that you're like, no, this is why Canadians don't engage in this debate or don't know what's going on? Well, for decades now, I mean, we've had increasing gun control for probably 35 years now, right? And for the most part, our gun control regime does the things that they wanted to do. I mean, we are not opposed to licensing at the CCFR. Of course, I would tweak it. There's some things we can do to make it more fair and to make it not such a ridiculous process. But, you know, at the end of the day, I would agree with all Canadians that I don't want guns in the wrong hands, right?

I don't want guns in the hands of violent people, criminals, abusers, all of that, right? And I think most people feel that way. But what they've done with this is they've literally, I can't even believe I'm going to say this, but the liberal government is literally gaslighting Canadians, lying to Canadians, telling you that, you know, they speak about the rise in violent gun crime committed with handguns. That's true, but those are with illegally smuggled guns that have been snuck in from the U.S. So freezing handgun sales for legitimate owners like me isn't going to do a thing about that. Now, when the violent crime doesn't go down, they'll say, well, we didn't go far enough.

Let's just keep banning more and more until they've wrung that sponge out all the way. The problem is, is that in the meantime, we still still. see all kinds of violent crime across some of our biggest cities. You see it in Toronto and Surrey and Montreal. And it's costing lives. And it's causing a lot of division. I mean, now you've got, you know, the Jagmeet Singh who would, you know, carry water for Trudeau no matter what, coming out against him for the first time over a gun ban. So, you know, you have to think when you think maybe Canadians don't care about this, I think they do.

because seven years of liberal policies and three gun bans later, we are a more dangerous country than we have ever been in our history. Well, why is that? Because we focused our resources, our attention, and our law enforcement on the wrong thing. So, you know, I think the average Canadian may not fully understand the gun laws. And, you know, when you don't know about something, it's easy to have an opinion because it doesn't really affect you.

But when you're talking about somebody like me, I mean, I'm an honest citizen. I follow all the rules regardless of how ridiculous they are. I store my firearms safely. I've got kids here. I've got grandkids that live with me. And, you know, I've got $40,000 worth of guns here that I've owned for decades, some of them for generations without issue safely. And now the government's saying, no, you're just, you can't be trusted with those things.

and it breaks the social contract, right? Yeah, well, it seems to be the MO of this government. I mean, you know, it's just across the board on a whole bunch of different issues. Guns is not the latest because it's been going on, like you said now, for several years. And certainly since Trudeau and the Liberals came in in 2015, things have been going the wrong way. It hasn't been going the right way here underneath their leadership. And it's, it's, it's interesting to watch. And I don't know, I'm from the West.

I know people out west are just fed up. I mean, how are things out east? Are people just as fed up? Are they tired of it? Because, you know, at times we wonder out here. You know, it's kind of like scratch your head. Like, are we through this yet? Or are people still holding on that the liberals are.

are going to be, you know, the better than the conservative counterpart? Well, I think, you know, we've sort of got that weird political divide going on where you've got, you know, most liberal voters. They want these progressive-type policies, which is what they call them. It's getting into kind of extreme wokeism at this point. They want, you know, a more fair economically, economical country. Whereas conservatives, by nature, we're conservative, right? Like, I think if you work hard, if you follow the laws, if you put in the effort and you live it honest life, the government should pretty much stay out of it, right?

I don't think the answer to every societal problem we have can be answered by the government. They're usually the cancer, not the cure. So, yeah, it is still different out here. I mean, I'm in Ottawa. This is where I live because this is where I work and it was my dad last posting. so we just kind of landed here. But, you know, if I was to live some in the province of my choice, it would probably be out west at this point.

Yeah. They still, it's like the last bastion for some liberty, you know. They understand. I'm curious, being from Ottawa, what did you think, you know, I don't know how much you watched of the commission that went into the Emergency Act, but what did you think of the Freedom Convoy being out there? I mean, good or bad or indifferent. You know, there was just a lot of focus on people saying it was very disruptive and, you know, I don't know.

They tried framing it as a very bad thing. And yet a ton of people that were there didn't see nearly the same thing. Well, it's funny that you bring that up actually because, yeah, you know, all the news stories were the people of Ottawa are under siege. And, I mean, we're a pretty big city. We're a million people, right? And geographically, we're huge too. Like, it's laid out, you know, it's laid out different. So we're quite a big city.

So I was watching the same thing you're watching. I mean, because I work in politics, you know, I've got CPAC on one channel. I've got the news on the other channel. I'm watching the House of Commons. I'm watching news sources. And they're saying one thing, right? They're showing, you know, kind of this dark, you know, seedy side of what they were portraying. But yet I'm also on social media.

And I have a pretty big social media following. And I got lots of friends on there. And so I could see the other side. was like videos of hockey games in the streets and dancing and people hugging and, you know, it's been a pretty crappy couple of years. We've been locked up. And so I'm seeing these two opposing sides. And I'm like, well, I think at this point, like I live here, the only way I can really get to the truth is just to go there myself.

You know, I'm not going there to protest or whatever. But I have to go see with my own eyes because watching the videos of the trucks coming across the country, thousands of Canadian families waving flags on every overpass. Like it, you know, it was pretty moving watching. And I always kind of wondered what would happen when they got here because I thought that's when things might go badly, right? So I gathered up the kids and we jumped on the O train and we went downtown and just to go see what was going on.

And I documented some of it and took some pictures. And it was like I saw on social media. You know, I remember we were standing there. There was some people speaking and I was just sort of stuck in the middle of this crowd listening. And this lady in a wheelchair was coming through. And it was like the parting of the Red Sea. I don't even know how people moved because it was shoulder to shoulder like thousands and thousands of people. But they were able to move, separate, got her through safely.

You know, everybody was moving for ladies with kids. And, you know, I recognize that it was the honking was probably very, very loud. You know what it's like when you hear one truck honking. So imagine a concentrated number in a very small area of Ottawa, what that would sound like. And that's the point I want to make is the area that was sort of affected by the ongoing protesting day after day is a very, very small part of Ottawa. In fact, the core downtown area, it's the residual residential areas that were affected as well. But where the main protest was is not a residential area. It's government buildings, right?

So when they say the people of Ottawa, I do agree there was probably some people downtown, you know, in those feeder areas around downtown that would have been affected by people coming in or out of the protest. maybe some late night shenanigans going on. But for the most part, what I saw with my own eyes, and that's all I can really report on, was just sort of this unifying celebration. It was like Canada Day on steroids. You know, everybody was just hugging and waving flags, and they had music and dishing out food.

We were walking by, and they had huge tents set up, and they were cooking pancake breakfast with sausage and just handing them to people, random people walking by. I don't know. It was really different to experience from that level. Now, granted, I don't live downtown. So I didn't have to, you know, live with the sustained noise

that, of course, was going on at the beginning. But, I mean, we live in a protest town. This is a federal town. It's the capital of a G7 nation. We are going to be exposed to some of those things. We have protests here all the time. I don't know if the idea of coming and camping out until mandates are dropped was realistic or not. And I thought that right from the beginning.

First of all, I didn't have any idea where they put them all. And that, of course, was a problem. But, yeah, I recognize that it was probably difficult for a small number of Ottawa residents. I also know that it was kept going by a large number of Ottawa residents. So they were accepting donations of fuel, of gas cards, of food, and who do you think was donating? Who do you think kept them going? And on the weekends and the evenings, when the crowd swelled to huge numbers, who do you think those were?

A lot of them were locals? I'm in all kinds of Facebook groups, and I'm in an Ottawa mom's group. and there was ladies in there who run home daycares who were taking the kids down there on field trips baking cookies and muffins for them. So, you know, I don't, I didn't have the same experience that some of the people downtown had,

but yeah, it was different. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you sharing. You know, being out west and getting to see it firsthand, I had my own thoughts, But, you know, one of the things about the commission was they brought out some Ottawa residents and tried painting it in a way, you know, that a lot of us, or maybe all of us who went, did not experience. And I agree with you. Was there some late-night shenanigans and horns and lots of different things?

Yes. And absolutely. But I think it's pretty cool, you know, to hear from a different Ottawa resident and just see how your perception of it was. You know, you come all the way back, though, to... I want to bring it all the way back to guns because, you know, Tracy, I laugh. I can take us all over the place. I'm curious. You know, if I got a listener out there who is staring at the rising crime and is maybe

in a city and is seeing, you know, violence increase and all these different things and here's the government's trying to do something about it, rah, rah, that's a good thing. What would you say to those folks? Well, I would ask them with seven years of liberal policies, increased gun control, and three gun bans. And here we are, literally, more dangerous than we've ever been in our history. Is it working? Does it make sense to go after a licensed sports shooter or hunter like me?

I do both. Or to confiscate rifles from people in the north, or people anywhere. Does that make sense when the majority, the overwhelming majority of gun crime in this country is committed by unlicensed criminals

with illegal guns? Like to me, it's crazy that that's the solution. It's like trying to solve, you know, drunk driving by banning Toyota Corolla's. Like, it's lazy, right? And the problem, I'll tell you exactly,

people ask me all the time, why does the government not do public safety policy, like, why don't they actually just do it? Do those things that you talk about. Invest in communities and at-risk youth, you know, strengthen the border, decrease gun smuggling. Why don't they do it? And I say, well, this is why. Because all of that work takes a long time to see the benefits. It takes probably about 10 years to see the real benefits and to see those numbers dramatically go down. And the election cycle is a short four-year election cycle, unless you've got a minority and then maybe two.

And there's not time to make those investments, do that hard work and see the benefit. And you never know if you're going to win the next election or not. So, you know, to be perfectly honest, the conservatives are also guilty of not going far enough to combat crime in their tenure as well. But I'd forgive them if they started now, you know. I guess I'm, I don't know, maybe I'm an eternal optimist. I look at it and I hear that and they go, like, can't a politician, the great salesmen and women that they are, find a way to explain to us exactly what you just said and go, listen, it's going to take time.

But if we start here in the next decade, we're going to start to see good things happen. But in the short term, it's going to continue, I mean, in the short term, it's getting worse. So, I mean, what point do we just go, okay, let's try something different? I keep going, why can't they just, when you talk, what you're saying, Tracy, I go, what you're saying is find the root problem, the source of the problem, let's find it, you know, and pull it out from the roots. I mean, if you just chop off the top, it keeps growing, right? Like, I mean, so why can't, like, there's just, there's no career in doing that. Is that what we're getting at? That's the problem of where we live is in democracy in a four-year cycle or maybe shorter. nobody can sell a long solution. Doesn't that seem insane? Isn't that insane? Well, and here's the problem.

In politics, gun bands make really sexy politics, right? You can talk about, you know, we're going to get assault weapons off the streets or we're going to, you know, and handgun ownership. And pretend that you're actually doing something. It's somebody who just hears a soundbite and notice how they repeat the same lines over. over and over. It's literally propaganda. That's how it works. You know, when they say,

these are rifles designed to kill the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time, you mean five. In Canada, we're limited to five rounds. Like, what are you talking about? Like, that scary sentence literally has no meaning in this country because all of our semi-addos are limited to five. My hunting rifle, my AR, all of that.

But people don't know that, so they're like, well, this is crazy. Why do we have those guns? You know? You're talking to a guy who loves listening to the conversation. So I love hearing, you know, you hear the headline. And I don't call any of them sexy anymore because it's just a bunch of BS, right? It's just like, here's a bag of a crap sandwich. Let's see who can choke on it first.

And I look at it and I go, I always want to hear the full conversation. Yeah. On your end, are you? starting to see more people the same way that they want to get to more of maybe the root problem and what's actually going on because I remember talking about this you know the different statistics on on gun ownership versus crime and all that stuff and you know illegal firearms and and you know you start digging into it I remember like hearing about this or talking about it maybe two years ago I want to say something like that and being like oh I wonder if that's really you know I wonder

if that's really true and then you you know you start listening more and you start following a few different people and you know and it just keeps and you're like holy man like yeah like it's so glaringly obvious it doesn't mean that anyone who's registered a firearm doesn't commit crime certainly there are some people but on the overwhelming majority that isn't the case so if that's so blatantly obvious and I tag on to that that I think more people doesn't mean all people are starting to listen to more of the conversation than just the sexy headline. Are you starting to see a change, or is it still kind of stuck where we were a couple years ago? Well, we are seeing a change, and I think, like the CCFR, our organization is only about

seven years old. We were sort of born out of the fallout from liberals coming to power. You know, it was like, uh-oh, we better get doing something, right? But I think, you know, being a gun owner for a really long time, I've owned guns for 27 years. Being a gun owner for a long time, we sort of had this culture of, you know, be quiet, lay low, don't be really loud about your sport or that you own guns. You know, don't be loud and proud. Don't wear gun shirts. Don't have gun decals. Just keep your head down.

And maybe they won't notice you. Maybe you won't get picked on. And that brought us to exactly where we are now because, Now the majority of Canadians don't know a thing about guns. So they hear about a shooting in Toronto. And then Justin Trudeau stands up, says, should we bend guns? Yes. Like, this is what happens, right?

So the CCFR is taking a different route. We've created like a national program called National Range Day. And the idea is, you know, I can debate somebody on social media all day or we can sit in a TV studio and debate. But the very best way to reach a whole bunch of people at once. and to influence their opinion on guns and gun ownership is to take them to the range. Literally, that's the best way to learn. So we can have conversation,

you can see what it's all about, you can give it a try, you can see what you think of it then. If you walk away and you don't want to be a gun owner, so be it. But maybe your idea about the politics of gun control will be changed, right? So that's the goal.

So the first Saturday in June every year is National Range Day, and we host hundreds of them across the country. and I think that's the problem is we sort of failed to normalize healthy, safe gun culture in this country and now we're, you know, we're being hung out to drive by politicians who see the political benefit of weaponizing that. So, yeah, so I do see it changing and you see all over, you've got opinion pieces by media saying,

hey, wait a minute, these gun bans are just going too far, this is not the way to tackle crime, law enforcement testifying against the against bills like nobody wants us except for anti-gun lobbies and liberal politicians so it's it's funny i uh you know when you talk about uh the sentiment being you know you stay quiet don't make any too many waves and just you know kind of go about your business the thing that comes to my mind is oil and gas energy um agriculture you know farmers right like they're all the same gun owners they're all the same oh it's just you know just carry on and what's all under attack now it's like it's almost like they sat and watched and

waited and when when we get to where we're going this is how we're going to do it because none of them are paying attention nobody's clued in anymore or what have you and it's taken a really long time for people that's like realize holy crap we better start talking to people otherwise they're going to you know drastically change everyone's life for what they believe to be better but what we all know not to be the case like it's yeah you know and it's not just one it's not just guns it's like there are so many different factors that they're going after of our lives that is just wild to me and the sentiment that you that you talk about is is something that they all share like no we don't need to you know we don't need to really talk about what we do

let's just carry on and and you know don't make any waves except by not making any waves it's all come crashing down on everybody's doors and everybody's kind of left scrambling to try and get back up and try and move. So by, you know, you're saying you're only seven years old, it's probably a good thing that you're seven years old and not, you know, like six months old and really scrambling. Yeah. Well, and here's the thing. I think, you know, the whole gun debate in Canada and deciding what's, you know, what we should own, how many you can own, who should own them, it's sort of the canary in the coal mine for property rights, because here's the thing. You know, with guns, it's easy for the average Canadian to say, yeah, take her AR-15.

take her handguns, maybe take some of her hunting rifles too. She doesn't really, she doesn't need those. Well, I also probably don't need the 4x4 SUV in my driveway, and I don't need this and I don't need that. So if we're going to live in a society of need, we're going to need to take inventory of what every person owns and whittle it down to, you know, unless you're wearing burlap and riding a donkey,

you probably don't need all those things that you have. So if that's the kind of society we want where you own nothing, well, you know, then that's where we're headed. So I think even if you're not a gun owner in this country, you should be watching this debate because we've got a federal court challenge against the government right now. And the question we want answered is, can the government step into your life, take property that you acquired legally, that you've used safely, you've broken no laws, can they walk into your life and take it from you?

And so far the answer seems to be yes. So that's a problem. That's a serious problem for every Canadian. So we're challenging that in the federal court, and we hope to have a decision coming up this spring. We have an eight-day hearing in April here in Ottawa, so it'll be a big deal. But this is sort of that property rights question.

Because if they can come and take my guns, what else? They can take anything they want. And that's a problem. When you frame it that way, I hadn't thought about it that way, Tracy. Geez, that unnerves me a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of where we're at, right? At the end of the day, you know, it doesn't matter if I had a single shot rifle here or a howitzer. If I'm not an evil, violent person with ill intent, you know, everything is safe with me, right? So I'm not advocating to, you know, hunt with howitzers or anything like that. But that's the thing is that for 27 years, I've followed all their rules, their increasing regulation. I've done everything they've asked of me.

I've agreed to that social contract between the government and myself and law enforcement and myself that I'm going to follow all these laws. I'm going to, you know, let you govern the way I do this. All of that's going to happen. But you're supposed to leave me alone. Well, now they're not. Now they're like, it doesn't matter that you're safe. It doesn't matter that you bought all those in good faith.

doesn't matter that you've owned them for decades or that they were owned by your father and your grandfather before him we're taking them from you and you're powerless to do anything about it I don't know I'm I that's not the kind of country that I want to live in right I don't think that's a kind of type of country any of us want to live in right like that's why it matters yeah well no it really matters you know it's it's funny you've got my brain just I always chuckle because, you know, you do as many podcasts I've been, you know, I'm done and hope to continue to do. And every once in a while you get a thought and you go, oh, that one's going to hold in my brain for a while.

Now I'm writing down dates going to while I'm going to have to pay attention to this trial in 2023 because once again, it's another thing, this slippery slope that seems to be happening all under the watchful eye of Justin Trudeau has been, has been something else here in Canada. You know, right across the country, everybody, you know, you just stare in awe that they can't get it, you know, the worst type of words to say. It can never get any worse. Oh, oh, folks. Yeah. And we got to continue to push back against this government. You know, I'm curious, what's been your thoughts then?

You know, there's been the rolling story. Now, this has cooled off a little bit, but Brenda Lucky, you know, and her involvement in Out East, with the mass shooting. Well, I mean, you would have been right at the, not the heart of that, but I mean, it would have been right in the heart of what the CCFR would have been talking about, I assume.

Yeah, so actually we hold a seat on the mass casualty commission. My partner here at work, Rod Giltaka, he testified, he spoke to it, we submitted multiple briefs, and he's been involved with the commission since the beginning of it. And I got to say,

you know, as much as I've sort of feel bad for gun owners being the, you know, the whipping post for this government, I can't for the life of me imagine what it feels like to be the families of the victims of that horrible crime perpetrated by an unlicensed madman with illegal guns. And to watch all of that unfold, there was absolutely no denying. There was blunders through the process. And, you know, it was sneaky. He's driving around in a cop car.

I mean, when you hear somebody's in trouble or there's a danger out there, what do you do? You look for a cop, right? So just diabolical evil that he was doing. But at the end of the day, when all that is said and done, and the number one concern for the liberal government through Brenda Lucky is we got to get that gun information out so that we can use it to do our sweeping May 2020 gun ban. I can't imagine the lives or memories or the pain that these families are going through reduced to, hey, we can get a gun ban out of it. I don't know. I just, I don't think that way, so I can't understand that kind of diabolical line of thinking.

But between Bill Blair and Brenda Lucky and Justin Trudeau, that's exactly what's happened here. So, yeah, it's rough. And then, of course, you've got officers, frontline officers. there's RCMP out east, Darren Campbell, and a number of other ones, Chris Leather. And, you know, they see what's going on and they understand the fact that if you release some of that information, you jeopardize the case. Excuse me. And people have said, what do you mean you jeopardize the case?

The guy's dead. And I'm like, yeah, but he got those guns from somewhere. There's an entire ass investigation that still needs to happen. They got to find out who supplied them with those guns. Where do you get his ammo? There's a whole bunch of other people that could all. also be jointly held responsible for the outcome of that tragedy, right? And by putting that information out prematurely, you can jeopardize the investigation.

And they didn't care. So for me, even though the perpetrator of the crime is dead, killed by police, which deservedly so, there are still other people that should be held to account. And you're willing to risk that to score some political points for a gun ban that you later used to hang around the neck of Air, no tool in an election. I don't know. I don't know how I'd feel about that. Well, I tell you what, it becomes the murky world of politics. And the longer you stare at it, the murkier it gets where it's, you know, there's, there's a, I used to ask, Tracy, this is, I don't know, six, seven, eight years ago. I used to ask, why don't the best

of us go into politics? And that doesn't mean there aren't some of us in there. Certainly there are. But I mean, the names you just wrap. battled off with Trudeau and Blair and you know anyways I don't put that that title in front of their name and back then it was you know you don't get paid enough for you know public spy or or whatever and the longer I stare at politics I go I don't know if you can get in there and not come out the same like the same person like it is it is a strange strange world where a lot of us would never think to do what has been done under this specific government.

Like this, and I'm not given a, I agree with you when you go to the Conservatives or any other party for that matter. I don't think anyone gets off scoffrey. And they've all played their part throughout all of this. It's just, when you put it the way you put it, and I've read different stories and the lies, the amount of lot, you know, we teach our kids, you know,

the, you know, you don't lie. You know, you tell the truth. and the people leading the country seem to just lie like it is. Oh, very easily. Yeah, easily and freely and without issue. And then when you try and call them on it, they're like, shut up, conspiracy theorist. You know, it's, I've never seen anything like it either. And it's difficult.

I mean, I come from a family who's served this country as far back as my family goes back. And, you know, I got this adorable. little 20-year-old daughter out there serving in the military under a government that would hang her out to dry in a second. In fact, you know, they do. Look at the way they handled the sexual assault in the military. Find me a file that this government has done well at. Like find me one file that hasn't been a complete disaster. Like the economy's on fire, unities destroyed, you know, our military is in shambles. It's just everything is a total mess in this country that we all love.

And it's like we're all sitting here. It's like the meme with the dog drinking coffee in the room full of fire. It's okay. It's fine. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, I've had dental surgery today. So my face is just the freezing's coming out.

It feels bad. I keep telling you can't tell. I think you look great. Okay, good. Yes. No. It gives me What gives me some hope

Or or maybe some optimism for the future is I keep running into different people, Tracy, that are active, that are like literally Like right on top of the government, like white on rice Or have started different things to try and expose and talk And certainly the podcast is no different. It wasn't here until 2019, you know, and it's you know in its iteration we're sitting at right now it's it's really you know I'm not

interviewing once upon a time it was Don Cherry and certainly I was actually just talking to a guy today going man I'd love to get Don back on or or you know Brian Burke or whoever to talk some you know there's nothing wrong with enjoying the country here and in and in the past times and everything else but certainly the podcast has taken a hard right turn and maybe a 180 because you know I went from doing that into a lot of current events and what's actually going on, because the longer I stare at, I go, we got to talk about the things that matter.

And certainly this is another thing at the top of the list that seems to be going like, what is going on? Because if we don't get all together here and stop this, who knows where it goes, you know, in the end. Yeah, well, and I think about it, you know, I'm not a young person. I've been on this planet and in this country for half a century. country. And I think about, you know, how much things have changed. And for a party that calls themselves

progressive, you know, I don't feel like we're making progress. I feel like, in fact, I think we're going backwards, right? You used to be able to, you know, go to school, do a decent job at school, have fun with your friends, grow up, get a job, meet somebody nice, start a life, and live a happy life. And now it's just like, it just seems like everything is so twisted and complex and expensive and, you know, I look at my two daughters and wonder, are they ever going to be able to own a house in this country? A good job was all you needed before. And now you need about three. So I don't know. I don't know where we're going.

But I know that this government isn't going to last forever. So you got to keep some hope. And things may get worse before they get better, but I think they're going to get better. They have to. So you just have to hold on. These people won't be in power forever. Yeah, well, and when I find different people such as yourself that speak some sanity into the world, I go, there's more of us out there than you think. You just got to keep searching for them.

And then when you find that community, you know, you've got to help promote it. And, well, and for a lot of us, you've got to become active in it so that you're just you've got to become active in it. that you can help propagate the future you want. Now, before I let you out of here, Tracy, we always do the final question brought to you by Crude Master Transport. Shout out to Heath and Tracy, McDonald. I've been supporters of the podcast since early on days. It's he's words.

He said, if you're going to stand behind a cause, then stand behind it absolutely. What's one thing Tracy stands behind? One thing I stand behind. Well, I stand behind a lot of things. I know it's funny actually. I had a boss at a previous job. I was working at a law firm and he said to me, you know,

the one thing about you is if it comes out of your mouth, it may as well be notarized because, you know, you say what you mean, you stand behind it and you don't ever fold. And I think that's really important. And you cannot, you cannot let that corruption seep in. You know, sometimes you may play a little dirty. social media is a toilet, right? And it's an awful place to be.

You have to learn to walk away from it more. But at the end of the day, you just have to put down your set of values, even if you've got to write it down, write that down, make a list, and stick to it. And that's exactly what I do all the time. I have to weigh everything I do and everything I say against my moral compass, and I think that's important. Well, I appreciate you giving me some time today. And certainly best of luck.

I'm going to be paying, you put on some thoughts in my brain now. So now I'm going to have to be paying attention to the CCFR here as we move, you know, towards 2023. Geez, we're not that far away, are we? Christmas just right around the corner. But I appreciate you giving me some time and hopefully, you know, down the road our paths will cross again. Absolutely, they will.

And thanks for the opportunity.