Shaun Newman Podcast - #380 - Bruce Pardy 2.0

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

He is executive director of Rights Probe, professor of law at Queen’s University, member of the Law Society of Ontario, and a member of the StopSOP team.  "Be woke, be quiet, or be accused of professional misconduct" Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Brian Gitt. This is Ed Latimore. This is Danielle Smith. This is Kristen Nagel. This is Aaron Gunn. This is Vance Crow. This is Quick Dick McDick, and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

New month, new intro. If you are picking up on it, there are some names that grace the podcast airwaves in the month of January. So the month of February and moving forward, every month will have a new, you know, we've been doing this now for probably six, seven months. but essentially new opening and any of the names you hear opening up were on the podcast previous month so anyways there's there's lots of great content to go back and look into and certainly when I've been rattling off this many I'm sure at times you're you're holding on with all you got to keep up and some days I feel like that too I'm having fun on this side I hope you're

enjoying enjoying all the content coming your way before we get to today's show we got to today's episode sponsors. Blaine and Joey Stefan with Guardian plumbing and heating. They need, well, they need guys and girls. They need barkers. I chuckle because I'm like, if there is one thing out here in Alberta,

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I'm talking about Bruce Party. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Bruce Party. So Bruce, you're back. Thank you for hopping back on. Ah, it's great to be with you, Sean.

Thanks for the invitation. Well, I mean, we were just saying before we started, like, how you doing? I had good. You know, how you doing good? Yeah. I mean, the world's just as crazy as it's ever been. Um, how's how and it certainly is. How are things on your end, uh, out in Ontario, the world just keeps spinning, but it's,

you know, at times to try and make sense of where we're going, uh, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. No, no, no, things are crazy all over the place. No, no, you don't want me to count the ways that the world's crazy do you? I mean, the thing, the thing on my mind right now is, is, is, is, is the, is, is the, is that we have an upcoming election at the Law Society for the new slate of benches, which the voting will be in April. And there's background to this, which we can go into.

But the Law Society is one of those professional regulators that has taken a, if I can put it this way, a woke turn. And last time, four years ago, we had a number of brave, determined lawyers come forward and offer themselves up for election on the on the on the platform of repealing a requirement that the law society had put in place which was that each lawyer and paralegal would be required to to to draft a statement of principles that acknowledged their obligation to embrace and and apply the principles of equity, diversity, and inclusion in all their affairs, personal and personal and professional.

And that was basically a litmus test for the right to practice law. So compelled speech is supposed to be beyond the pale in this country. So we had to try to fix that at the regulatory level. And that part of it was successful. Those 22 lawyers got elected. But now there's new elections coming up, and there's lots left in that activist agenda. And so the experience at the Law Society of Ontario is similar now to what you are seeing in regulators of all kinds, including the Ontario College of Psychologists, which is going after Jordan Peterson,

for commenting on political matters on social media. and they are responding to complaints that have been lodged against him, not by any of his patients, but by, you know, I grieved, you know, other psychologists or perhaps members of the public who don't like his views on things. And the regulatory environment is becoming such that, in effect, a new standard of practice is starting to emerge in this country, which is essentially be woke, be quiet,

or be accused of professional misconduct. That's the bottom line. When is the election for the College of, or the Law Society of, I mean? Well, the campaign will kick off any time now in February, but the voting will be in April. And where do you sit, Bruce? Are you looking at it? Like, actually, I think good things are coming.

Or is it way too early to say such things like that? Because you said 22 ran in 2018, correct? Correct. Correct. And really turn the tide of some culture coming into lawyers and how they connect their businesses that doesn't need to be there. Now, here we are four years ago, for years again, sorry.

Yep, right. And the same thing could happen if it doesn't go the right way. Oh, sure, easily. It's just banging on the door. So are you sitting there going, like, no worries, folks. There's a lot of people running that have the right intentions, et cetera, or are you not going like, man, alive, where are we going? Oh, listen, it's hard to tell.

But the one thing that we do know for sure is that there will be much more fierce opposition. to us this time than last time. I think last time, no one, I mean, frankly, including ourselves, was sure that this was going to work. And we elected all 22 of the candidates that bravely came forward, but 22 was not a majority. And there are 53 seats on the governing body called Complication. And yet in spite of their minority position, they managed to repeal this requirement.

But, but, you know, they've been stymied at every turn since then in trying to sort of push back this tide. And what happened in the last election is that it was, it was, what happened was out of character for elections at the law society in general. Most, most lawyers, and I remember when I was a practicing lawyer and these law society elections came up, nobody pays attention nobody cares you you vote for the names that you recognize if you vote at all most boilers do not vote it doesn't really matter or at least we thought then

at the time a long time ago now it does matter now it matters a whole lot and they're being contested now and the the the what I would call the

the activist hordes will not will do their best not to let the same thing happen again. So it's going to be a much different dynamic this time, and it's going to be a much steeper mountain to climb. But, you know, it has to be done. It needs to be done.

You can't just walk away from this kind of thing. And so one can't help but be hopeful. Well, I mean, I think when you talk about nobody really paid attention, nobody really voted, blah, da, da, da, da, da. But they knew. I would argue the other side knew how important that was. I mean, if there's- Yes.

If there's anything that's happened across all of society, it ain't just the law or the college of physician, psychologist or whatever, where you can run onto these boards, the last two years, three years, I guess now, maybe, has really proven out how important those positions are.

So both sides at least understand that now. You're 100%. The laws of engagement, the rules of the game are, staring at us and you either get involved or you let the other side dictate how the next four years are going to go. And I think we all thought that was just, you know, we're liberals, conservatives, you know, like it doesn't really matter. Oh, it matters. And we've been all feeling it.

And I guess what gives me hope is that the fact that people understand that, right? Like people understand the stakes that are here. It boggles my mind when you say the line, be way. woke, be quiet, or be accused of professional misconduct, even in the world of law. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now, of course, you won't find that written down like that anywhere. That's not the official rule, but that in effect is becoming the norm of practice,

not just at the law society, but all over the place. I mean, there are, there are so many other examples as well. you know, there's a nurse by the name of Amy Hamm, who right now is in front of a disciplinary panel of the BC College of Nurses, who are investigating her for insisting or believing that biological sex is real. That too, apparently is enough for an allegation of professional misconduct. And that's what I mean when I say, be woke, be quiet, or be accused. So let's take a step back. So professional regulators, the premise of professional regulation is, at least once was, should be that regulators are there to ensure competence and ethical practice in the public interest.

You know, if you go in to get your cavity fixed, you want to know that your dentist has been to dentistry school, has passed the exams and no set of drill teeth. and if you if you're selling your house or buying one you want to know that your real estate lawyer can search title and make sure you're getting what you're paid for and you want to make sure that your trust funds are secure and so on but now the idea of competence is being reimagined redefined through an ideological progressive lens and so if you do not adhere to the political imperatives of that worldview they are defined finding that more and more as amounting to being incompetent. And that's, that's, that's, that's the problem. That's a large problem. Yeah.

Like, I mean, we just, we, the last time you were on, I mean, you were talking about a whole list of subjects. And we just lived through a time that I don't think anybody wants to go back to. Right. And you got, you know, you go back to Jordan Peterson, uh, screaming at the top of his long as about compelled. speech and different things like that. And then you see what's going on again today and you're like, all right. Well, you thought you were just going to, uh, you know, get to lays on the couch and not

have to worry about anything. Those days are gone. Like, oh yeah. Oh, sure. You can do that, but I mean, then you reap what you sow. And, uh, that could be a very, well, we all know it. It can be a very scary world for all of us. Well, let's just go back to that for a moment. So, so you're, you're, you alluded to the days when uh when when and when jordan and and others of us were were objecting to proposed amendments to the canadian human rights act the the the the including in that act of grounds of prohibited discrimination including gender identity and so on and and jordan made the point back then and we did as well i did jared brown did and others we said including including this in that act is going to require people to use other people's pronouns on demand.

And people said, all, that's nonsense. This is not about speech. It's not about unspelled speech. You're not going to be made to do anything. You're being alarmist. And lo and behold, here we are. And these kinds of things are happening now. It's not crazy.

It was not extreme. It was exactly right. and the norms that these systems are putting in place that reflect progressive ideas are being insisted upon as the standard of behavior for everyone. And the idea of choosing your own way, your own speech, your own opinions, and being able to express those opinions as going out the window. Well, Bruce, somewhere there's somebody saying, why doesn't he just, you know, and I'll speak to Jordan Peterson.

I mean, I guess I should say, you know, with Jordan Peterson, when he's going through right now, he's supposed to undergo, sorry, I'll read it off. The College of Psychologists of Ontario have ordered Peterson to undergo a media training program saying some of his tweets may be degrading the profession, even raised questions about his abilities to be abilities as a psychologist. I'll read it verbatim what it says. There's going to be people who just say, well, just go take the training. What's the big deal? What's the big deal, Bruce? well, the big deal is that you are being compelled by force. And let's not, let's not lose sight of the fact what's actually going on here.

So let me go back a step. Laws are essentially commands backed up with the threat of force. The command here that underlies at all is thou may not practice as a professional unless you meet the standards of the profession to be licensed and so on. Okay, that's the premise of being a professional. That's the way it's been traditionally. But now what has come in is this sort of this set of expectations that reflects a particular political point of view.

And so essentially what the command has become is, thou shalt not practice in a profession unless you adhere to these political views. and because you don't seem to, we are going to make you sit down and take it, like in a struggle session. You're going to re-educated, you know, like in the, I mean, they don't put it this way, of course, but like in the Soviet sense,

you are guilty of wrong things, sit down and shut up, and we're going to tell you what the right way to think is. That's what we're talking about. And the idea of Jordan sitting down and being taught how to use social media is, I mean, don't get me wrong. The whole thing is not a joke. It is not a joke at all. But that image of Jordan taking instruction from somebody on how to use social media

it is to laugh. I mean, it's not going to happen. Jordan's not going to do it. But if he did do it, I would love to be a fly on the wall and watch the interaction between the two of them. I would feel sorry for the person who was given the task of, instructing him on how to think and how to speak. You know, you said the Soviets,

and what came to me, I think, is wrong thing, double think, double think, double talk, double, whatever. 1984. Right. I was like, I mean, like what we're discussing is, you know, some things that I never thought in my wildest dreams would start to bleed into society. It's basically saying you have to think this way. And if you're not,

no longer be a professional in this discipline. And while you're going, okay, all right, like I'm sure whatever, they're implementing that not just in the psychologist realm, but across the board in all professional realms so that they can snuff out. I don't know. You probably know better than I do, Bruce, but I would say, you know what they believe to be wrong think, right, which is, you know, the views on, I don't know, differing views on I think racism would be probably one of them

probably how to conduct yourself in in an online forum but more and more it looks like it's who you vote for you know what would I what political party you lean towards is I mean obviously under attack there's a whole bunch in there well by implication they're not gonna be they're not going to be so transparent as to as to demand to know that but but you're the the the the speech that you utter and the views that you espouse are, you know, are going to reflect that kind of disposition.

And it is, it is those beliefs that they're, that they would really be after. And of course, it also, it also goes to other kinds of matters like, there, there are many doctors that have been sanctioned over these past,

you know, two to three years for expressing their medical opinions about government policies and COVID. You know, lockdowns and masking and, vaccines and the directions from their colleges has been, you know, thou shalt not, thou shalt not express views that contradict official government policies. I mean, just imagine that.

Your doctor, who is a trained medical professional, is not permitted to express medical opinions based upon their own knowledge and experience, that something is not. not right with an official government policy. That is an outrageous situation for us to be in. I'm almost laughing at the side because the longer you speak, I'm like, yeah. Like I mean, and yet it all happened. We, we, we, we, we, we, we know doctors who, uh, no longer have a job because they were fighting for informed consent or medical ethics.

And either one of those things, every person should be like, yeah, we want those. Yeah, that's not what's going on. And I would extend it to. media you know like I know a bunch of folks who worked in different areas of media and if they thought against what the narrative was during the last two years they're out of work right they're now an independent there and heck they might be having a great career of it because there's a need for people to talk on the other side of this thing to try and slow it down but you know I love this

it was Aaron Gunn the documentary or filmmaker from Vancouver who's who first told me about the pendulum, and I just assume gravity brings it back. Okay? That was a poor assumption. I have those moments on here. I'm like, oh, yeah. And he was talking about you need a force as equal or greater to pull it back. So when we go back to this vote coming up soon enough, it's like, oh, yeah, well, the force has got to be there.

Otherwise, it's going to go the other way. And you wrote, what meets no resistance does not stop. I think you're quoting somebody. I was. Yes. I missed putting that in there. But I'm like, that's what Aaron Gunn was talking about. I was quoting, I was quoting Professor Gary Morrison of Northwestern University.

Yes. Who put it this way. He said, well, first of all, he said, well, what makes us think it's a pendulum? I mean, that's just a metaphor. Maybe it's not a pendulum. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's a rock rolling down a hill. It's snowball rolling down the hill.

Yeah. And what meets no resistance does not. stop. So whether you frame this as a pendulum that needs gravity or snowball that's rolling down, I mean, the point I think it's the same, which is if you just let it go, it's not going to, it's not going to go back to where you assume it belongs. These things have to be pushed back on or or you get the consequences. But just for a moment, perhaps we should just talk about the response that these kinds of objections sometimes earn. So I think it goes a bit like this, and this is reminiscent of the arguments about the vaccine passports and so on during COVID, which is this.

The argument is, well, you don't have to. It's your choice, but choices have consequences. If you don't want to go for reeducation or if you don't want to comply with the college directions, then you don't have to be a doctor or a psychologist or a lawyer, you can, choose not to be. It's a voluntary thing in the same way you could choose not to get a vaccine and just not go to restaurants and not have a job because it's a choice. The problem is that the government controls the consequences of the choices that you're making. And that's not really choice. That's really coercion. Now, it's so far hasn't been held to be unlawful coercion, but nevertheless,

it's coercion in the sense that you are being, you are being painted into a corner by the, the authority of the state. Let's just be clear about this. Professional regulators, even though they are run by the professions themselves for the most part, are parts of the executive branch of government. They are part of the state itself, and they are subject of the charter, and they can be accused of coercive measures in the same way that any government branch can be. If you must abide by what they say or, you know, or lose your license. That means your, your liberty to practice is being imperiled. And, and so, you know, you can, you can cry all you want that, you know, the choice is yours and choices have consequences. But that, that idea really only applies when you're dealing

with a free market of competitive people. Yeah, in that situation, you can make choices and choices of consequences. You can go and buy from this person or not, and they can say, we want you as a customer or not, and if the deal is not made, that's great, you just go away and you find somebody else to deal with. No problem. That's the way it's supposed to happen in a competitive marketplace. Regulators are not in a competitive marketplace. They are government monopolies. They have the final say over who gets to practice. And in a free country, those criteria should be based upon competence only and not on politics

otherwise it's not neutral and therefore it's not free. I was going to say, you know, when you started going, I would say it's the illusion of choice because they make it seem, oh, you've got a choice. But if you don't choose what we want, you lose everything. Correct. That's right.

That isn't choice. That's the illusion of choice. It's standing on a box and patting yourself on the back while the others are, you know, subjected to what You, anyways. It's a bit slippery, though. It's a bit slippery because, so let's try a different scenario just to see why they're making this argument is because sometimes that argument does work. So let's try this.

Let's say you are an employee, I don't know, for some retail store. And the retail store brings in like a dress coat. Let's say, I've used this example a number of times. Let's say they say, all our employees now have to have short haircuts. And you really don't want a short haircut. and you think, well, I'm being coerced. I can't lose my job. I need this job.

But I don't want a short haircut. I'm being made to cut my hair. And the response is, well, but you have a choice. And in fact, in that situation, yes, you do. Even though it's a bad choice. The bad choice is get a haircut or lose your job and then try and find another one if you can. That doesn't sell any much of a choice. But that one's a real choice because you're dealing with a competitive marketplace.

and you can sell your labor to whoever will buy it on the conditions that you both agree to. That's a fair argument. It's not a fair argument or not a proper argument when you're dealing with the government. So when the Minnesota, the Minnesota, geez, come on. The New York Yankees say short haircut, shave your beard off. We're going to be clean shaving. That's what you're talking about. That's fair enough.

Everybody remembers Johnny Damon went in with Boston and then going across and he loses the locks and he shaves off. the epic beard and everything else and they stare at that, that's what you're talking about. Yes, correct. But when it comes to one regulatory body controlled by the government, it becomes something completely different. That's right. Hmm. I can see you're not entirely convinced.

Well, I enjoy you putting different examples there, right? Because I come from the oil field. Right. And clean-shaven because they say, you know, and hard hats and coveralls and all these different requirements to be on site because they're trying to protect safety and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Listen, I can't go back to day one when they implemented half that stuff. I've heard good stories on both sides, this and that and everything. Right. The clean-shaven thing is an interesting one and they have different, you know, requirements on that and everything else.

I sit here right now today going, if you wanted to repeal that, like, be like, listen, these are the, Look, there's not H2S everywhere, yet the entire oil sector, energy sector, blanket policies. Right. If you wanted to repeal that or back it off today, it would be a heavy lift, almost a possible lift. Sure. But if you went back to day one, Bruce, when they were trying to push this, I think it would be something you could maybe deflect, stop. etc. Not maybe not stop,

but you could, you could deflect or maybe mitigate. And so where you're sitting right now, what you're talking about is the ball is already rolling down the hill. The pendulum is already swung. Can you create enough force to stop and change it before it becomes something that may become an impossible task?

Oh, well, this is the question. And the jury is very much out. It's a very difficult task. because once public institutions take on this kind of ideology,

it's very difficult to rid them of it after the fact. And who knows, we may already be too late on this task. Because the infection is so widespread throughout our institutions. I'm speaking not just of regulators now.

I'm speaking of all through the culture. I mean, name a major public institution that does not now operate on these norms, either explicitly or by implication. I mean, government, departments of all kinds, agencies, and so on. You've got media. You have big business, the banks, financial industry. You have universities, you know, absolutely. regulators.

You have, you have, to some extent, you have a great many judges on the bench who think in a progressive way. I mean, they're not an institution in the same way as a regulator or a government department. And they're not directed. Each judge has independence. And we have a lot of judges who think various things.

And a lot of them are not a discreetly. school of thought that I'm describing, but the trend, I think, is towards a progressive worldview. And you can go all, you keep going down the list of institutions, school boards, and so on. I mean, can you think, can you think of a public institution that does not govern itself now in accordance with this set of ideas? Well, the top of my head is no. And actually, I was thinking, like, the companies, the, I ended up working for had already implemented a bunch of what this is, right? So like they were already

having all these different trainings and guys just include myself, I was just get through it, whatever, who cares, you know, move on with life. It's not that big a deal. And yet here we sit. And I'm like, okay, let's try it a different way then. What did Bruce do so that Bruce sits there and goes, I'm not doing this? Because maybe there's something to be learned from what, Jordan is talking about what you're talking about. I'm a slow learner at times, and I'm realizing how, like, this doesn't get solved overnight. This is already, you talk about the infection is all over the place. I'm no kidding.

Like, I mean, it's just, and yet I meet tons and tons and tons of people that don't agree with it all. I have a hard time articulating it. We want to push back, but don't know how. and you know it's like the other side already has been pushing their stuff already knows how the game works they're they're they're blowing us out and yet there's more and more people every single day that are becoming more and more motivated they want to know what's going on they disagree with what's going on and they want to start to do the opposite way and so i go okay well maybe there's a way to this this will sound stupid as i say it out loud but hey what the heck more bruce parties more

Jordan Peterson's. It doesn't have to be on such a grand scale as Jordan, but what he does well better than anyone is articulate his thoughts and understand the consequences that are coming if he doesn't. Yes, correct. That's true. And God bless him, he is doing this clash with the college all in public. And he's made a point of that. He's basically said, everything that happens, you're going to find out about. And I'm hoping that this exposure, this experience, will transparently show what this college hunt is all about. And I'm not sure that they will be embarrassed

because these institutions rarely are. In fact, they seem to want to make a point of showing how powerful they are. are in these terms and how much they do have the ability to insist upon this particular point of view. But the more people who see it, and Jordan's going to help with that, the better, because all those people that you're referring to, and I totally agree with you, there are lots of people who think that something is not right. And if those people can be convinced that there are a lot of other people who think this too.

Then you start to get a critical mass of people altogether to say no. And you don't even need a majority. You need a critical mass. I don't know what that that number is, but something that constitutes a significant chunk of the population who simply says, no, we're not doing this. We're not going along with this. And if we don't go along with it, you're going to have a big problem.

That's what we need. And I would like to tack into that. I agree, critical mass, everything. The problem with getting to critical mass, I think, is you need people to be able to hear what Jordan Peterson says and is going through, and then be able to articulate it to their friends. Right.

And that portion is really, really, really difficult. Mm-hmm. Is it the articulation that's difficult or the conviction? Maybe a little of both. I would think after the last couple years we have, the conviction is not, isn't the problem anymore. I think everyone understands, maybe not everyone, lots of people fully understand the conviction point. I think a lot of people have been pushing as hard as they can to try and get us out of what we put ourselves into. But in order to win larger chunks of the audience, other than like direct pain to their lives,

your your ability to articulate your argument better than the other side needs to be what Jordan does so well that's what Jordan does extreme well you do it well as well right is framing it in a way that they can understand and go oh that makes sense and going that way instead of remaining it doesn't bother me or siding with you know all the progressive nonsense that continues to be pushed down you know who else has a really good argument to make are an awful lot of immigrants that i know

or who have encountered who come from other countries where the tradition was different and they had an experience of communism or socialism or dictatorship or totalitarianism in some form who now say, what is going on in this country? This is beginning to look like the place that I left, and I want none of it. Those people are worth listening to because they understand it on a personal level,

and they have a compelling version of this to tell, and we should be listening to those people as much as you're listening to me in Jordan. Okay, then let me give you another thought. I've been wondering this, you know, I just did this event in Lloyd here, an SMP presents, and it was the rural urban divide, right? Right, right. And as we got talking through it in different things, I had this, you know, I wrote down this thought of like, maybe I'm projecting some things into the city that isn't true, which is there isn't anyone who thinks like we do on the outside, which obviously isn't true. I don't mean that in like entirety.

just that it's such a small minority that you have no allies there. And yet, I talk to a bunch of people from all over the planet, including all across this great country, that think exactly like you do, or I do. And it's like, then that isn't the case. That is either politicians or media, or maybe a little bit of both,

put this wedge between us that makes it seem like it is ever helpless. There's no way out of this. Just let the professionals do what we do. out your best interest at heart. And at the end of this, it'll be utopia or whatever they want and we'll be better for it. Meanwhile, they've found a way to think the cities hate the country and the country hates the cities. And meanwhile, none of us are talking, but we kind of are.

We're just not acknowledging that and bridging the gap. I don't know. But I feel like it isn't as hopeless as all of us at times think it is. Well, let's try this. there may be a more basic idea that we would like to see people embrace than, you know, the more complicated assessment of, you know, what's going on and the ideologies and the regulators and so on. How about just this basic idea? The idea that the authorities and the experts who populate the government and our other institutions, those people do not, in fact, have the status to tell us what to do. And we should go back to that idea that the job of assessing what is true, what is worthwhile,

what is valuable, and what is in your interest is yours to make, and no one else. Because we have slid, I think, into the idea of embracing the concept, of the nanny state so completely that we take now as given the idea that people with expertise must be there in order to tell us how to do things. And this was on full display throughout COVID. And in some ways, COVID was the crowning achievement

of this way of thinking, but it's not the only thing that they have achieved. But people need to, I think, I would like to hope that they would start to reject the idea of expertism, if you like, or the idea of technocracy. Some group of people with expertise whose job it is to direct the rest of us on how to live our lives, that idea has to go. As long as you have that idea in there, people are still going to listen to the media and listen to the government departments and listen to the regulators, because after all, those are the people who are qualified, and, well, that has nothing to do with it.

Your job for all of us is to hear and assess on our own and decide for ourselves what is right and true. So how do you spread that message? Well, right now, I think the best way is to show how the opposite hasn't worked. I mean, one of the only civil lines to COVID, if there is one, is that it was. was a terrific example of how messed up everything got because we followed that idea that they knew better. I mean, there are so many examples of mistakes and contradictions and foolishness and and and and costly errors of all kinds made by people behind microphones at press conferences that surely it's plain as day that we were foolish to believe that those people knew

they were doing. Well, I mean, it's plain as day to me, but I'm like, until I get, for a long time, you thought you were the only one who thought similar things in that. And then obviously, you know, the rise of some independent media, you know, some guys like Jordan Peterson, starting to talk out and others, there's like, there's this giant cast characters. And I think Jordan would probably admit that he wasn't one of the, nearly one of the first. I think we all know that. There was a whole cast of characters before that. for for me it's like yeah I I agree with that but yet the government the main government federal doesn't agree with that oh god no oh no you'll not find a government who agrees

with that with what I just said no not a chance not a chance you have a lady in Alberta who's the premier who's been doing a lovely job since you come in yet she's undercut constant attack from everyone. Yes. And of course, that election comes to May. You're worried about your election. I tell you, here in Alberta, I'm paying very close attention here to what comes down the pipe come this May.

I hope so, because that lady you're referring to is maybe the first and only sign at the moment in this country of someone who has a genuine chance to. win an election on a platform that reflects the ideas that we're talking about. And if she loses that election, man, you think, you think the country's dark now. The lights are going to go out. I mean, this is, this is a moment that Alberta, Alberta really has to show the way. And if they can't, if they can't, so Alberta is the closest thing we have to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a Florida or a Texas in this country, a jurisdiction that is not willing to go along with a progressive

mainstream narrative. And, and, you know, so many people across the country look to Alberta as the bastion or at least best hope for an actual free jurisdiction, at least to some extent. And if, if, if Alberta falls through this time around, you're not going to get another chance like this for a good while, if ever. You know, as we sit here and, you know, you go, well, of course, we're talking about Daniel Smith, and she was just on the show a week ago, so for the folks, if you want to go back

and listen to it, by all means. But, you know, hearing that there were lawyers who got together four years ago, almost five years ago, I guess, 2018, geez, 2023, and fought it then. gives me hope. And what I'm trying to get out of my brain, but here I am and I can't seem to spit it out, Bruce, is that we all need to start pushing. The force to push back the pendulum or to meet or to give it resistance so it will stop has to go across the board. Yes, it does. So while you're

paying attention in Ontario, I can promise you out here in Alberta, we are going to be paying attention. Right. And it will, I mean, the force that is trying to will or stop whichever way you want to put it, there are a ton of people that are paying attention. And I've joked on this podcast, you know, when it was a UCP election, I literally talked nothing but politics for like three months. It was a lot. And I appreciate the audience enjoying that ride. And I thought, geez, now we're done with that. I can get back to a couple other things. And we took a little reprieve. But May is coming fast. And the importance of it, every single day gets a little bit more.

And you hope you just walk through and no big deal. But to act like that, I don't think is the right message to put out to people. No different than if you're sitting in Ontario or you're a lawyer or you're anything listening to this, the importance is to get involved immediately. Because otherwise, the consequences may be dire to the point we never get back out of it. Sure. Yeah. People are not going to be able to afford the luxury of waiting for someone else to.

to do this and to see how it goes. That's too little, too late, and that just involves sacrificing a few people on futile attempts to do it on their own. That's not going to work. You've got to have people of similar mind sort of operating, as you say, across the board, wherever it matters, wherever it's important and it matters everywhere. So, yeah, absolutely. Well, I

There's my hopeful thought That's my hopeful thought Because once again I come back to the live shows we've done We've done two now Soon to be three And the last one A guy was talking

To another person in the audience And said the first one he'd gone to Really pushed him to get involved And now he's on a school board Good, good And when you hear things like that You go while talking about it is working because people need to, you know, fear is such a paralyzing thing, you know?

Like when you say what you say about the law society, I'm like, oh man, like I'm just peril, because I can't do anything. What can I do? I'm sitting over here. But I got to trust that Bruce and the team over in Ontario is pushing, just as any other province is pushing because we all got to get moving. We all got to get mobilized, so to speak, and the time is now. Yes.

And fortunately, the more people do that, go and get on school boards or the like, the easier it will be because you'll see other people around doing the very same thing. So, yeah, I mean, the snowball works both ways. You know, we need our own snowball to start to gather team and people and start rolling. So where we go? Well, here's the idea that I've been thrown at a lot of people. One of the things that helped me through COVID and a whole bunch of other things, just personal and everything, was a book club. There was five of us, started back in 2018.

One of the first books we read was Jordans. Oh, yeah, great. And it was surrounded by the idea of being better husbands, better fathers. And then what it blossomed into, I would say, is, you know, people who were concerned for their community and everything else. Did we get everything right? No. But certainly had her finger on the pulse and we're talking about things. that we're concerning to not only us, but maybe our families, etc., etc.

Out of that came the podcast, and other things. Like the other members have certainly gone on to do things as well. And so we've started a new men's group trying to, I've been trying to push on men in general to get into groups such as this because this isn't an easy fix. Certainly there's things in the next year that you need to be paying attention to and need to be mobilized and like trying to get involved. in. I mean, we just talked about two that are very big, but don't act like in a year's time,

there won't be more. Oh, sure. Right. No. You need to be able to, uh, to, to, to challenge some of the thoughts in your head so that you can, you can be better prepared for when it comes. Because, I mean, it continues to just trickle in and over and over and over and over again. It's like a steady drip of morphine or something. And let's not pretend this is a short fight. I mean, you win a couple of things and you think, oh, you know, we're, we're turning it back. It's the thing is changing. Well, no, no, no. This is a long-term thing.

This is a civilizational project. It has taken decades for us to get where we are. It's going to take at least as long if it happens at all to. And I hate to say to go back to. No, no, no. We're not going back to anything. We're going forward, but we need to go forward, you know, to a good place, instead of the one we're headed to in right now.

But this is a long-term project. No one should expect for this to be finished in their own lifetimes, probably something for their kids and grandkids to still be working on. And it's a continual thing, right? It's never done. You always have to defend the freedoms that you have and the system that you think you need. But, yeah, I mean, you can't wait, no longer though not now now is almost too late that well i mean the now is almost too late should

get everybody up out of their chair right now wherever you're driving you know or wherever you're listening from and get you thinking what can i i act like i have all the answers i certainly do not bruce i just go i know what has impacted my life immensely that's being in a room with other people who want the best for the world we do not all agree but we have a space where we can you know, practice, if you will, and have it out in the sense of the betterment of our community, our families, et cetera. And I go, that idea, if it's spread across Canada, which might sound a little bit, I don't know, hopeful, I'm like, knowing this doesn't end tomorrow, knowing this doesn't end in a year,

knowing that it's a constant for the rest of probably eternity, even if you get to a nicer spot, wherever that is, it's something that your kids would benefit from and their kids and everything else. And it's an idea that we need to help foster because I was literally just talking about how, you know, and we don't see anybody argue anymore. Like on, like where they bring,

I always referenced Don Trair and Rahm McClain. Right, right. The national pastime used to be Coach's Corner. And what it Don represent? The patriotic, you know, bombastic man who you go to the fight with your friends and, you know, and you support your neighbors and a whole bunch of things that a lot of us loved. But then you also had Ron McLean. He was the progressive.

And he balanced it out. And they balanced each other out. That's what we need again. But we don't have it anywhere. They've taken it. And they've made it seem like the only way is this way when there's always two sides. There's always two sides to an argument. Sure. Yeah, I agree. Agreed. And the loss of the legitimate public space and permission, if you like, to have those arguments is, is one of the first signs of the decline of the place that you thought you knew.

Well, Bruce, I appreciate you giving me some time today. I'm going to think of what you. with some of the things you've said. Either way, I'm happy to know out in Ontario, there's men like yourself, and I'm sure women as well, that are, actually, I know that for true. I've been interested in. Yeah, yeah, indeed there are. Right.

That are, see what's going on. And instead of fleeing to Alberta or fleeing elsewhere, are standing their ground and putting in the good fight, I guess, is what I would call it, because I know in Alberta here and Saskatchewan, for that matter, as we sit on the border, there's people doing the same thing, and they know exactly the cost.

consequences of not stepping up and getting involved. So it's hopefully we, I, you know, having you on doesn't scare everybody too much, but at the same time does put in the importance of getting involved sooner than later. Either way, thanks for hopping on with me. I'll make sure I get you out of here on time. That way I'm not, you know, extending my welcome. Either way, it's been great talking to you again, Bruce, and appreciate having you on. Oh, thanks. Thanks, Sean. I appreciate the invitation. It's always great to talk with you.