Shaun Newman Podcast - #383 - Forrest Maready

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

He is a native of North Carolina and graduate of Wake Forest University, where he studied religion and music. He spent the early part of his career working in the film, television, and advertising industries as a sound engineer, composer, animator, and editor. He is the author of over a dozen books, many of them stemming from years of medical research. The Moth in the Iron Lung, his most popular, tells the true story of polio. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Brian Gitt. This is Ed Latimore. This is Danielle Smith. This is Kristen Nagel. This is Aaron Gunn. This is Vance Crow. This is Quick Dick McDick, and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Monday. Man, my weekend was action-packed. Left on Friday, went down to Rocky Mountain House, interviewed a 91-year-old woman from there. So that was the beginning of it. Met with tomorrow's Tuesday mashup sponsor. So shout out to Drew McKay. out by Rocky Mountain House.

That's going to be a lot of fun. And then I got to be around Nicole Murphy and Meg Garland, Sarah Swain, Carla Treadway, a whole group of ladies brought me out to Sylvan Lake and got to talk a little bit about the book club, which I know everybody kind of trekkles about from time to time coming, which I'm talking about it lately. But it was action-packed weekend, a lot of fun out there, and then made it back in time for part of the U-7.

hockey tournament here in Lloyd with the kids. So lots of fun. It was busy, busy, busy all over the place. Tons of fun. You know, before we get obviously on to today's episode, first up is Canadians for Truth. And they're here in Lloyd Minster February night. That's this weekend, this Thursday. Chris Barber in town with Theo and Jamie at the Vic Juba. I think that's going to be an interesting night. Yours truly, I'm going to head down and make a bit of a night of it. I'm hoping to have Chris in studio for a little sit down as well. We got a couple of the military boys from previous podcasts. You're going to be in town as well.

I think we're all going to go down and check it out and see what the Fire and Ice Show looks like here in Lloyd Minster. So if you're around town, you can still get tickets. Just go to Canadiens for Truth.com. Or check out their Facebook page. There's links on it all over the place to grab a ticket and head down. I think that'll be an interesting night. Tyson and Tracy Mitchell with Michico Environmental. Of course, their family-run business

that has been providing professional vegetation management services for both Alberta and Saskatchew in the oil field and the industrial sector since 1998. And what I love about getting to talk about them right now is I get to talk about spring. I get to talk about warmer days, sunny days on the horizon. And with those, their busy season is going to start. They're going to be looking for, you know, a ton of workers.

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easier and easier for you. Also, if you've got a gun lover or a hunter sportsman in your life, Vance Crowe teases me about this all the time, and he goes, is this where I purchased the gift cards from when he was in Leibnizor and we'd drive by Profit River? And yes, nothing, beats a gift card if you don't know exactly what to get them and then you know the hunter the sportsman is going to know all what to do with it so just go to hunt uh hunter profit river dot com they are the major retailer of firearms optics and accessories serving all of canada uh how about the team over at windsor plywood builders of the podcast studio table uh for everything wood these are the guys whether we're talking mantles decks windows doors sheds or a podcast studio table just check out windsor plywood and a shout

out to Carly Closs, and that was the original table that continues to be in the podcast studio since year one. So that's pretty cool. She's got some years on it. She's seen some things. Gartner management, they're Lloyd-Misterbased company specializing in all types of rental properties to help meet your needs, whether you're looking for a small office or, you know, you're looking for something a little bigger. Give way Gartner, call 7808-50-25. And before I get to the tail of the tape, I want to say if you're a business out there

and you're looking, you know, you're listening to the podcast. You're going, geez, I like what I'm hearing. How do I get involved? There's a phone number in the show notes and just shoot me a text. We got open spots available for the Tuesday mashup. We're doing month by month. And they're filling up actually rather fast. You know, I think already we're into the middle part of May is full.

And so that's one way. Another way is, you know, Fridays, Wednesdays, Mondays. And, you know, right now I've been hammering off Thursdays. And Thursdays have no advertisement on it, right? So obviously if you want to get to where you're advertising on Thursdays or Fridays, shoot me a text, and we can start a chat there. As there is open spots here for 2023, I like to hold off a little bit with some of the sponsors from the previous years.

I always give them first opportunity. But we're through January. So if you're business and you're sitting there listening and you go, you know what, I think we should start to explore some things, Shoot me a text and we'll see what we can get working on this side. Let's get on that tale of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years. They've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm commercial or oil field locations. For more information, visit them at Hancockpetroleum.com.com.

He spent the early part of his career working in the film, television, and advertising industries as a sound engineer, composer, animator, an editor. He's now the author of over a dozen books, one of which is called The Moth and the Iron Lung that dug into polio. I'm talking about Forrest Moretti. So buckle up. Here we go. This is Forrest Moretti and you're listening to the Sean Newman Podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Forrest Moretti. So first off, sir, thanks for hopping on. Hey Sean. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. I, uh, I'm going to be honest. You know, two years ago, maybe a little less than that, I had no idea who Forrest was. And then somewhere along of lines, I picked up the moth and the iron lung, started reading it and I was like, wow, this is like, this is really interesting. And I would really suggest people go and read that book.

I thought it was fantastic. That's my introduction to Forrest. So I have a good sense of, you know, some of your thoughts on different things. For a lot of people on this audience, they've probably never heard of either. I believe you're sitting in North Carolina today. Maybe we could just start with who is Forrest and give the audience a little bit of introduction and we'll go from there. Sure. You said two years ago you didn't know who I was. Well, six years ago, I didn't know who I was. And I just sort of happened into this medical research rabbit hole, like a lot of people, through vaccines. That was sort of my portal into a little bit of inquisitiveness. I started seeing some things that just didn't make sense to me. But I grew up, I worked in the film industry for most of my life,

did a lot of fun movies and Dawson's Creek and Muppet movies and things like that, and ended up in visual effects doing animation. And then I'm a curious guy. I started reading about stuff just like you have and got more and more curious and started doing more and more research and made a bunch of videos, made a fool of myself on Facebook and YouTube with this show called My Incredible Opinion. And just like anyone, realizing the horror of what was going on, trying to get people to notice. And there were a lot of people out there doing very good things, very serious things.

And I was trying to bring so much needed levity to the conversations. So I was doing it with a sense of humor. But anyway, yeah, so I wrote the polio book, The Moth and the Iron Lung. And that one, I've written a bunch of books. don't know, 12 or maybe 13 or now. That one seems to be the one that really resonates with people. Polio is the foundational myth of vaccine lore. And if any of your listeners have never heard it put like that, I'm just going to be blunt. And the polio story, as we all learned it as children, is just not true. It's patently not true. And I had always,

always heard as sort of a mild conspiracy theorist, I had heard that DDT had something to do with polio maybe. They weren't quite sure, but there seemed to be some correlation there. But when you start reading polio history, you'll see that it actually started in the late 1800s. And that got me thinking, well, wait a minute, polio, DDT really wasn't invented officially in the 40s, And then it wasn't used commercially in the United States until after World War II. So why, how could polio, if it had something to do with this pesticide DDT, how could have had anything to do with that if it was actually starting in the late 1800s? So I'll cut to the chase here.

I started doing some more research. And I found out that there was an invasive species of moth that it invaded northern New England in the late 1800s and this new pesticide. was invented to combat its spread. And then I started looking at the early reports of paralysis and children. And I started looking at the reports of where this pesticide was being used. And they overlapped. I mean, it was almost perfect.

You could trace the spread of polio. And I kind of quote polio when I say it sometimes. And I'll explain why in a minute. But you could trace the spread of polio across New England, across the northern United States, into Canada. and it perfectly traced the spread of the gypsy moth. And that's when I knew I had a story. I said, okay, there's something here.

There's something worth pursuing. It's not just the DDT. It actually had something to do with another pesticide. So I'll cut there and give you a chance to bud in. But that's sort of the long and short of how I really got started in this journey. Well, it's really, personally, I think you could probably lay out the entire book, and I would sit here as captivated as when I was reading it.

Like, and I think a lot of people haven't picked up your book for us. And I think as you talk, I think people are criminal. I think a lot of people are going to be like, holy crap, I need to grab this sucker. You said six years ago you didn't know who you were. I'm very curious by that line. Well, it's sort of a joke in that my career path

has been driven by two or three variables. One is, is it fun? Two, am I working with interesting people that are curious like me? And three is, do I have to wear pants? Because I hate wearing long pants. This, I live in North Carolina and I grew up wearing shorts. This, I live at the beach and I don't like having to wear pants. So, yeah, I had been a little bit of a conspiratorial mind. After college, someone gave me this book that was called You Are Being Lied to is this huge coffee table book. And it was like a page or two of every strange thing had happened. The JFK assassination, you know, always being sort of the top of the list. I can't remember the Israeli prime minister that was assassinated in his limousine. That was a really interesting story.

There were a bunch of them. And I started looking through them, and I felt like my BS detector was really good. I started thinking, okay, sounds plausible, but I'm not sure. And then another I might say, you know what? Plausible, but I don't believe it, and I'll do the research. And I felt this sort of instinct of wanting to know the truth on things that people were being lied to. You know, we've explored all the continents. We've explored all the landmass, even some of the deep sea stuff.

There's not a whole lot left to explore on Earth. But what I always tell people is history will always be explorable because you're always developing more history. And there are so many truths to be uncovered in history that I found that that as the explorer mindset that I have, you know, as a kid I read about all the great explorers and all the wild adventures they went on. We really can't do that anymore. So truth finding amongst history has sort of become my passion. Now, it just so happens that pharmacy and medicine have a bunch of really good ones, a bunch of really good lies that have just sort of sat there waiting to be found.

So I focused on that. But there's other things that I also, you know, get into looking for the truth on. But yeah, so six years ago, just started reading about this stuff, just like anyone else. And, you know, a son who was entering, I don't know, six or seventh grade due for another round of vaccines. And my wife and I going, is this really necessary? This, we didn't like them as parents of a young child. They always made us feel uncomfortable. My wife always tried to avoid doing them.

She just had this, you know, second sense or sixth sense. this instinct that there was something not right about it. So anyway, about that time, that's when I started really looking into it. And it was just sort of one domino after another. And I finally just said, oh, my gosh, I have to start talking about this. And that's, I guess you could say, when I found myself, I didn't realize I was meant to be some strange person who makes enemies of all their friends and family by trying to tell them the truth about things. But, you know, not to jump to coronavirus

or any of that, but it has been an interesting journey in that I've kept my mouth shut with my family. They know where I stand. I've already developed enough vaccine awkwardness with close friends and family who disagree with me that I just, I literally didn't say anything. And it's, it's been interesting. We can talk about that later if you want. But yeah, that was me. Well, I'm curious, you know, COVID as a whole, there was a lot of, you know, as we conferred back and forth, I'm like, I don't know if you can say anything at this point that's going to shock the audience. Because we all lived it here in Canada, and certainly the populations were pitted against each other, and it was a wild time. And now you're seeing more and more stuff come out, not only on Twitter, just in general, about fact. vaccine side effects, long-term causes, all these different things are just like piling up.

You got Elon Musk talking about it now. And do you have that same group of friends and family who are like, we know where Forrest sits, and we're not talking about this because he's kind of like wonky. Have they started opening up to you maybe or anything? Just like, or is it different here in Canada? Because like in Canada, I feel like a tide has slowly been turning where more and more people are opening their eyes to like, oh boy. There are people who are definitely starting to realize things. There's a book called When Prophecy Fails. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. It's a really

interesting book. I recommend it to anyone. And it essentially is sort of a catalog of what happens when people really believe in something and then it doesn't come to fruition. And if you remember the what were the purple Nike people in San Francisco? It was the cult. This is 10, 15 years ago. They did a mass suicide. Oh, the comet people. Yeah. They use them as an example. But the tendency of human beings, the psychology of human beings is when you believe in something passionately and it requires sacrifice when what you believed in is proven to be untrue, you would think there would be Course correction there. Heaven's Gate?

Is that the one we're talking about? Yeah, that's Heaven's Gate. Yeah, sorry. Just so people aren't wondering what the heck was going to. Yeah, what purple Nike means. They all work purple Nikes. Yes. That's biblical, I suppose.

I missed that scripture in theology class. But regardless, the tendency for human beings is to actually double down on what they believe to be wrong. You would think there would be course correction and they'd say, oh my gosh, I was wrong. I'm so sorry. But humans have a tendency to do the opposite. And the effect is more pronounced, the more you have subscribed to that belief. So if you're a doctor and you've vaccinated the crap out of thousands of kids, you're more likely

to double down on the vaccine mess if you're proven wrong. I mean, it's understandable in a way. You have a lot more to lose in terms of your pride, your professional credentials and this sort of thing. But one other factor that really plays into it is, you know, is. It's personal pride in terms of a relationship. So if I go to a close relative and say, don't you dare get a COVID shot,

it's experimental gene therapy. It's not even a vaccine. They don't know what's going to do. It's self-amplifying. It's all these horrible things. Don't do it. Please, I beg you, don't do it. Okay, what happens now when that person gets the vaccine

and they develop a problem? they're not going to be friends with me. They're going to be angry at me. This is human. It feels counterintuitive, but they will be angry at me, and they won't be able to have a conversation with me about what happened to them

because they know they cross me and pride will take over and say, no, I'm not going to talk to them. So what I tried to do with my close friends and family was leave the door open by not hounding them about it. So now I feel like, I hope that my friends and family, who did get the vaccine feel at least that they can come talk to me about it because I didn't

put that animosity between us about this particular vaccine. I left it open in hopes that they would come to me. So people are changing their mind about this for sure. I see all kinds of doctors on Twitter, you know, who are saying things that they would have never said five years ago. That's good, of course. But in terms of like personal relationships, I don't, I don't see anything getting better anytime soon. I mean, I have close friends, within my circle of close friends or family, a very severe case of Guillain Barret within two weeks of the vaccine, a very severe blood clot within two weeks of the vaccine,

somebody passing out, like completely falling flat on their face, a stroke and death, a miniature heart attack, and then another stroke and near death. and this is just within 20 people of I'll say I'm in deference to my friends and family I'm not saying who it is so I'll say within 20 or 30 people of my inner circle that's that's what's happened and it's been horrible to see I mean it's absolutely been for somebody who's sort of dedicated their life in a way to trying to write the ship on this thing to see it happen to your own friends and family has just been absolutely gut-wrenching. But I think things will get better. I always said years ago,

you know, I was doing the protests. I went to the CDC with Dalbertry and the nation of Islam and all these, you know, it was like the band of brothers, this motley band of people like trying to raise awareness to this stuff. And I said, you know what? It's not bad enough yet. It's really not bad enough. It has to get worse before it gets better. And so I sort of shrunk back into my little hobbit hole and focused on writing because it just felt like it had to get better before it get worse. Now, thankfully, all these people, all the sort of medical freedom people like Dell and Bobby and, you know, Sherry Ten Penny and all these people that have been talking about the stuff for years, thankfully they kept it going. They just kept pushing and pushing and pushing, which has been amazing. So now I think, you know, we're all sort of seeing the fruits of our labor, unfortunately, through what's probably a humanitarian disaster in the making.

I mean, if not already, just for the vaccine alone. Forget what the virus itself has done. You know, it's like a double, a double dose of horror. So do you, all your research, you know, into, and let's stick with pharmaceutical. here for the time being. Is it greed? Is it just about money, do you think? Is it something more nefarious?

Is it just ineptitude? Yeah, people always say money, oh, it's all about money. It's not all about money. If it were all about money, this would be such an easy, easy thing to fix. I mean, look at Kanye West got dumped by Adidas.

Okay. That was like a $4 billion hit. took because of that. It wasn't about money with Ganyu West. Okay. So there's all kinds of things that aren't about money. Bill Gates doesn't need more money. It's not about money. Now, down the chain, there are certainly people that need more money that want more money. Of course, there are people, the foot soldiers of the world, the Tony Fauci's and people like that, they can be influenced by money and power. Above that, it's not about money and power. Above that, it's not about money and power. It's, you know, whether I'm a Christian, so I see things within a spiritual worldview, and I see there's evil in the world.

People have a tendency to do things that are very bad. And I see things within that lens and say, well, people worship vaccines and science and technology. That is literally their savior. Vaccines are their savior. They literally worship them, as if it were a religion. and people think, well, that's kind of a metaphor for they really, and I'm like, no, that is human beings literally pulling out whatever, you know, religion you belong to and putting in a different cartridge, which is science and technology.

Vaccines are the Messiah figure of that religion. So at the end of the day, most of these people want to do good. And this is, now, I'm not going to say all of them. I think there are some that are genuinely evil, but this is a famous, you know, how long can you go an hour speaking without quoting C.S. Lewis and I apologize for doing this. But I promise myself I wouldn't do it. But he has this famous quote about forget the evil people of the world, the robber barons, as he calls them. It's the guys that think they're doing good. Those are the ones who are the most destructive because they wake up every morning renewed with confidence that they are going to save the world. And, That's why, to me, Bill Gates is dangerous because he thinks he's doing good. If he thought he was doing evil, eventually guilt or compunction would get to him and maybe slow him down a little bit. Same thing for, I don't know, I'm just going to mention him. But if it were money, I don't think a lot of these people need more money.

If it were just pure evil, I don't think these people could continue to do what they're doing. I think the worst problem in CSOS couldn't be more correct in my mind, they think they're doing good. They really believe, just like with population control, they think people are going to lead happier lives if they can make it so that you have to have less children and so that you don't see as many of your children die and you can just have a happy life with fewer child deaths. I mean, I think they literally believe in their mind, hey, if we sneak some chemical in the vaccine, scene that causes women to have less children, then maybe they'll be happier. But this is, you know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. These people have stratospheric intentions. And I'm actually

tossing around a book idea called Save Your Inc., which is the business of saving. And it's this idea of how the world is being ruined by people who think they're doing good. Because that's all corporations. I mean, look at the, what's it, the Hillary Rodham, HRC? a quality index, look at this B-Corp, if you've ever heard of that. I mean, there's all these organizations that are springing up, giving metrics to how good companies are, how charitable they are. You know, making a product and selling it for a profit to benefit your employees is so passe in today's world.

It's all about doing good. And this is why companies are failing is because they're not trying to run businesses anymore. They're trying to do good. and I think trying to do good causes more problems than letting good be the natural byproduct of your actual service or widget you sell. But we're getting way over there, so I'll come back. Yeah, money is a thing for sure. Money buys a lot of things. But once you get beyond some of the higher level guys, it's not about money anymore.

Well, let's talk about Bill Gates. You got all the money in the world. You don't need money. Money's not your, you literally want to save the world. We're going to save the world. Why don't they find the root cause of problems then? Well, think about the feedback loop that happens. Okay.

When they do something, what empowers them when action A equals reaction B? So action A is, I'm going to distribute a vaccine all over India for free. I'm going to use my $100 million donation to Gavi, and that's the Global Vaccine Alliance, whatever the acronym is. I'm going to give $100 million and then we're going to get that. So they feel good about that. They feel like they've done something that is helping humanity. And well, India found that there was some chemical that was in the vaccine for some reason we're not quite sure of that contributed to infertility.

And so now India is kicking the Gates Foundation or Gabby out of the country so they can't do this anymore. Well, human nature, Bill Gates blocks that out and says, well, there was a misunderstanding there. And clearly they don't understand that. I was trying to help them. They don't understand that. So I think the feedback mechanism is always there where, okay, he gets lots of TV interviews. Well, I must be doing something good. I won this humanitarian award.

I really must be doing something good. I think until the bench forks come out, the negative feedback is not going to be there. Does he not have anyone close to him then forced in your mind? Who's just like, Bill, we got some serious problems we've got to talk about. I'm guessing not. Most of the people close to him probably don't have his money and they want that money. So they'll keep it coming.

He'll keep paying them as long as they say the right things. I mean, this is the emperor has no clothes. It wasn't just the emperor that had no problem. It was his court that also, you know, agged him on in a way in this example to say, you're doing fine. You're doing great, Bill. I mean, look at all these results. There will always be science.

There will always be data and charts to confirm what you want to be true. I mean, I have this saying. It's you will not find what you're not looking for. And humans have a very good blind spot. We are very good at avoiding looking at what we don't want to be true. So think about this. You're a pediatrician. You've spent 20 years of your life vaccinating children, three months old, six months old, nine months old, 12 years old, three years old, seven years old. Okay, you've done it.

Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of injections. What if some nut job like myself comes along with a book called the autism vaccine? And I clearly lay out a case for when they started adding aluminum hydroxide in vaccines in 1932 in America and Austria, autism began to appear within three years in both of those two countries, the very countries that added this new ingredient, you know, you immediately start seeing massive cases of autism appear. As a doctor who's injected thousands of children and seen, let's say, hundreds of cases of autism come through your own practice, you are not likely to be able to face that reality. Autism can be a devastating neurological condition. It's not always. It can be devastating.

It can be absolutely devastating. One case of that, the guilt of feeling like I caused one case of that would be probably more than I could bear. Think about thousands or hundreds, a doctor may feel they may have contributed to, they are just not going to allow themselves to go there. It's, the tragedy is too painful for a human to accept, most humans. Thankfully, there are some of us, I wasn't a physician and I never gave anyone vaccines, but there are some of us who do have that humility to accept. I played a part in this, you know, I didn't say anything. And that's what I wanted my son to say when he grows up, you know, this, you've seen this meme.

Daddy, what did you do in the war? well, I never fought. I never had a rifle on my hand. I didn't have bullets whizzing over my head. I did have death threats through Facebook for saying things about vaccines, though. That's what I did in the war. I tried to wake people up. I tried to save a few kids here and there, you know, a lost friends and family in the process, I lost the ability to freely get a job in the process. I mean, there's been a lot of sacrifice for it. I wouldn't change a thing. Hmm. That's, you know, when you talk about, I don't know, the word that's coming up, and I can't remember if you said it or not, but guilt of, you know, compunction. I don't see.

You know, of like over and over, you know, that's, that's something that, uh, I mean, you have to assume would be very difficult, right, to come to terms with something that you've been doing and thought you were doing a world of good. Yeah. You know, and, and, well, and I mean, there's going to be people who listen to this force that go, we are doing a world good. And don't, you know, I mean, you get the point.

But when you think about it of, you know, like, the Canadian government's still rolling out saying, get vaccinated, do your part, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't know what they're on anymore. I just can't even, we, the bridge is too far, you know. I always talk about bridging gaps and trying to like, how do we bring people together? How do we, you know, because like the COVID thing,

I don't think there's a person listening, including myself, that didn't have the argument go into the smallest, tiniest crack. And I mean that as in it went all the way from the CNN of the world, all the way down to Little Hillmont, Saskatchewan, where I'm from in the middle of Canada, nowhere land. It went into the families. It went into my family. went into everybody's family, everybody's marriage, everybody's kids, if they were old enough.

It just went into everything, this mind virus of like, you need to do this. And if you don't, you're a bad human being and we're going to ostracize you from the world. In Canada, it got pretty wild up here. Yeah. And yet now, as we continue to move through it, you go, how do you find a way for the person who thought they were doing nothing but good to be like, it's okay. what you were trying to do, and we understand that you had the right intentions. But even the right intentions, you know, can lead us to the wrong place. And I don't know, that's a very difficult question. Yeah, I'm, you know, that sort of leads in the direction of reconciliation.

There's some hashtag that's been floating around Twitter on this topic. I can't remember what they're calling it, but maybe they're saying no reconciliation. I think it's very tough. I mean, we had some friends, I'll say family friends who we'd had, when I say we and me and my wife, had very frank discussions about vaccination and their children with. And usually these are people who asked. We realized early on that if people aren't ready for the conversation, you're just going to, you're going to make it worse if you push it.

So, I mean, I have a public presence on this topic. I have books out and videos out. And so people know that I'm a resource they can talk to. They know where I stand on it. So they know they're going to get an answer that's different than what their doctor says. So if they want to ask, they ask. And we talk. And we had a family friend that their family ended up getting the vaccines.

And it was really hurt. and not because they disregarded what they knew our opinion would be and not just because they didn't ask our opinion on the thing because they didn't. It was because we knew there was a bifurcation forming. We knew the world was splitting. And it's going to be really tough when there's certain people on this side and certain people on this side of the issue. it's a strange feeling.

I've studied a lot of history and I've really thought about is there ever been an example in the world like you said when it's in Saskatchewan at the family dinner table you know 17 miles from the nearest post office and you're having this very frank conversation

and there's arguments between a husband and a wife about this very thing. You know there's a wedge that's being put down in the world. So it's interesting and sort of disheartening to see the world split on this issue. And I think, as you mentioned at the beginning, there are people that are sort of coming over.

But there's a strange residual split in that, well, I worry about blood transfusions, let's say. Okay, you go to the most primal level. Like, me saying that is saying, I say you're tainted. Now, you said that to me. I was really angry at me. You said, I can't go to your restaurant.

I can't go to your movie theater because I don't have a vaccine. And you felt like you had every bit of scientific evidence to back it up. And that really hurt me. Okay. I'm mad at you for that. But look what's happened now. I don't want your blood. I literally don't want your blood.

I'm terrified of having your vaccinated blood in me or my children. Okay. How about this? I don't want your vaccinated child to marry my unvaccinated child. I don't want that. I don't want that risk in their offspring. Okay? That's serious.

I mean, I'm, me thinking that, I'm saying something incredibly hurtful to those people. So, of course, they felt justified in saying it. I feel justified in saying it. So it's really hard for me to really hate those people when I realize, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm just as scared of you as you were of me. I feel like I have just as much scientific evidence

to be scared of you, I mean, I'm not really scared. You know what I mean, as you did me. So for me to say, no reconciliation, I'm going to say, I'm just, I'm the same as you are. I don't, I don't, I want a unvaccinated blood bank. I think it needs to happen. Either I bank my own blood, or we develop some screening technology because these things are, are poison. I mean, this stuff self-amplifies. It doesn't go away. There's no half-life on this. It, like, it, it continues to regenerate itself. People will look at the antibody measurements and think, well, like the titers and they'll say, well, the vaccine's kind of waning.

I don't think the other parts of it wane. I mean, the Vex, the Pfizer, or no, the Bidurna shot was specifically designed early on to self-amplify. That means create new copies of itself. That was one of the big things early on that terrified me about it. because normal vaccines eventually, now they take forever, they eventually can cycle out of your system. Now, they may cause autoimmune diseases along the way,

which take years and years and years to work through. But these new ones, if they self-amplify and they got that technology right, it's, I hate to even say it, because I'm sure there are people watching your show that got the shot, and I don't want to say there's no hope. But that self amplification thing is definitely terrifying. Well, I think we're talking about something that not a lot of us want to talk about, you know? Like, you're, you're, but you're framing it in a way that, that, I have, I know people on both sides, right?

That went for, one, like how you framed it, didn't want you anywhere near their business. Well, not even, they just didn't want you in your business because of what the government was putting down. I would say most people I know weren't terrified of me, but certainly they were cognizant of the rules, and they didn't want to break the rules because breaking the rules is a big to-do. And now I have people exactly what you said, you know, like I'm terrified of a whole list of things. And it's funny, like I sit kind of in the middle. I hope I sit kind of in the middle, and I'm just like, human beings are a strange breed. because to acknowledge that you have similar thoughts to what they had early on is actually really cool, Forrest.

I think that's, I'm like, good on you. Because that shows how difficult of a situation we have put ourselves into. It is, it is, well, I mean, might be the most difficult couple of years, maybe centuries, I don't know, that we're walking into. And that's hard to say out loud because that, you know, I'm a guy who wants the answer like, let's just get, come on, there's a way to work through this. There's a way to get to the root cause and move past us so we can go on, you know, our merry way. And like when you say that, you frame it the way you have, it's like there's going to be people not in their head to the radio. There's going to be people shaking their head, like terrified.

It's going to be all over the place. But it actually frames out kind of where we're at. Yeah, well, I just wrote a book in the last few months called The Tribal Instinct. The subtitle is The Sacred Desire for People in Place. And it's basically about this human desire for belonging. You know, we want to feel like our lives have meaning. And this often in the past has happened through people and place. This means having some historical chain of life and culture and religion and faith that you belong.

to that you're a part of and that you live at the place where your granddad built that bridge there and my father, you know, helped build that church there. And this gives meaning to people's lives in a way that like going and living whatever area of the world you want to live in. And it just, it's a very vacuous way of life that a lot of people have undertaken. But one of the things that gave people meaning is, is war and hardship. And not just the soul. You know, you've heard the story. Soldiers come back from war and they're like, well, what do I do now? You know, I was literally just had my band of brothers with me and we were fighting to survive. And that created that tribal bond that was very, very intense because you literally had to rely on each other to survive.

I use the example here in North Carolina. We get hurricanes all the time. And when we do, it's actually pleasurable. It seems strange. But all the neighbors start to come out and say, hey, is your chain stall running because I've got a tree block in my driveway? Do you mind if I buy,

hey, my generator is out of gas. Did you happen to get some extra ethanol-free gas? All these things start happening when you're put in this a little bit of hardship after a hurricane. What's interesting about what, I'm going back to what you were saying, about the hardship that this bifurcation of the COVID vaccine

has created is it's all the political, religious, scientific split of war without any of the benefit. Like, we don't get any of this tribal bonding. We're not, you know, we don't depend on each other like, like we should in war. So I, I actually, I think I disagree with that. I think what has happened is there is, and I'll speak to the area I'm around. is there is a parallel parallel universe forming right now that is the bifurcation honestly there there's two branches yeah and I have seen a lot of people that went through a lot of tough things have really come together close awesome that's what I that's what I think it doesn't mean that there isn't still a division

there between different but there is yeah I I think more and more people are we're starting to recognize, you know, we're not that far removed up here for us from early settlers, you know, like where, where I sit, you know, a hundred and, what it would be, about 18 years ago, they came to this area. And you can read the stories. And I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't know what the oldest person on the planet is. But, you know, it's just over a lifetime ago, people had to rely on each other or they, died because we live in a world or an area that you know for eight months of the year maybe six tongue-in-cheek here but you know maybe six months of the year it

wants to kill you I mean literally it's like minus 30 minus 40 like it and so you relied on your neighbors and all the old stories talk about it because you had nothing else yeah and as we've technologically moved up and created things and started to rely more on the government instead of your neighbor that has definitely falling off. COVID comes in and now you have people and more people and I think I think this is a huge crave you know we just did our event a Sunday ago I see more and more people craving that camaraderie craving craving craving let's talk about things and let's get to let's talk about these because

everybody can see it playing out whether you're pro or against it everybody can see all this playing out And they have to deal with it every single day now. There's very few holes you can climb into where you don't realize some of the complexities that all of our, well, I mean, pretty much, I mean, I suppose if you go somewhere in a third world nation, but in the Western world, there's very few places you can go, especially through COVID, where you weren't just hammered over and over and over again. Yeah. I think people are really open to hearing different thoughts such as yours. And there's a community formed that has really come through something very difficult, like war. I mean, like, you know, obviously, no, like war.

I think that's, I think that's very close comparison. I agree with you. I think I was referring specifically to, like, right now, I can go, I'm unvaccinated, I can go to the local grocery store and get food with no problem. So can a vaccinated person. There's essentially no difference between us. Now, that's not to say that won't happen. And we feared that happening. It sort of, it backed off. It felt like we were going to go all the way. And it certainly, as somebody who never wore a mask, I had that. I would just go in places and dare them to ask me to leave. I wasn't trying to be a

a butt head about it, but I just refused to wear them. And if I happened to catch someone in the store without a mask on, there was that little gaze like, hey, hey, we're together, right? Well, here's the crazy thing. There was people that did it where the people with a mask on would look at them and be like, I see you. I appreciate it. Here we did, we went full on, you know, restaurants, you had to be, or you had to have a

negative test, hockey games, things like that, you had to be negative test. We had a snitch line, meaning if you saw people gathering, you could call the cops. We had the talks of quarantine facilities, and it was under the guys that, you know, you live in a crowded building, we'll give you a safe place to go quarantine, but they were starting to talk about land purchasing throughout the country. Heck, you know, it's something I should probably follow up again on, folks because I never really heard where that ended but one of them was an hour away from where we're from I was like well that's terrifying yeah they had these hotels set up for people getting off planes where it was all plasticed up and you

stayed in a room and and then stories come out about you know women being abused and different things happening in there by the security guards and you're like like this is where Canada got to and the only thing that changed it was a group of people coming together and going to Ottawa under behind the backing or in you know behind the push of a freedom convoy of all these truckers yeah hitting the breaking point and then going and standing there for you know the the almost three weeks that it was of like we're not moving yeah we're not moving until you get rid of all this and then all of a sudden it's crazy how quickly things just snap and all of a sudden they're all falling off but it had nothing to do with the freedom convoy

we were going to do this anyways and you're like yeah right like we can we can we can We went full on to, you know, we split society into two. Yeah, it was, it was similar here. And it was scary as someone who had suggested these sorts of things would happen years ago. I remember having a call. I was sort of friends with Del Vigtrea and he does a lot of shows in this whole movement. And I called him.

It was about a year into the whole. thing. I was calling for something else. I can't remember. And we were both just started laughing and going, can you believe this is all the stuff we used to sort of joke about? And it's actually happening. Like we were literally shocked because we would say things that, or anybody in this movement would say things like, don't do this. Don't let them do this. It's going to get worse. You know, we were warning. And we realized how strange it sounded. We realized that it sounded like we were nut jobs saying this kind of stuff. But to hit that point and go, holy crap, we are actually there. We are literally beyond what we predicted might happen. It was absolutely surreal. Now, the vaccines have

been partially a blessing, mostly not. I'm worried that it's going to get worse before it gets better still. But I think they have caused a lot of people to reconsider whether the government having some sort of authority over medical decisions that people make is a good thing or not. I mean, science has been broken for decades. People are just now realizing it. You can't reproduce a study that's been done in the last 30 years if you tried. They're all bogus, almost all of them are bogus studies. If not in and of themselves, because they're based on other bogus science or because that

science was based on bogus science, it's almost impossible to know what is actually valid science, anything that's been done in the last 30, 40 years. The whole thing needs to be rebooted, started over. New medical journals. I've thought about, I don't know if you know anything about technology, but there's a thing called GitHub, which is essentially a code repository. A lot of open source projects use that. I've thought of creating a science version of that, in that we need a new way. Peer review journals is a completely failed way of, a way of, authenticating science. It just doesn't work. So if science progress, scientific progress is necessary at all, we need to create something that allows it to flourish because

the current system is, it just needs to be burned down. You know, I'm all for, you know, the SMP presents when I bring different backgrounds together, the whole purpose of it is solutions for the future. You talk about a certain problem, but the idea is to explore it and see what comes up with different backgrounds, right? So you're not all, hopefully, you know, you might all have the same idea that it's broken, but hopefully not all the same points that you're making on said issue. Anyways, when you talk about, when you talk about peer reviewed being a failed system, why, why is it a failed system for us? Well, what people are realizing, what I'm realizing is that people thought that science was this system of objective truth that would work no matter who the scientists were.

And what we're now discovering is it matters. It doesn't work if the scientists don't have a moral. compass, if they don't have an ethical commitment to truth, and if they don't have a unwavering desire to put their pride aside and see the reality of the world displayed within their data. And for a while, there were enough scientists that had these things, the moral compass, the ethical commitment to truth and these sorts of things, that science basically worked. We are now in the endgame of science where most people don't have that anymore. They have pride and arrogance more than humility and a desire for the truth.

They have a desire to esteem themselves with more grants, which leads to the results of the science skewing towards those people who funded the previous study. And there is unfortunately no truth. objective truth in science without people who believe in objective truth and are committed to it. As I said, the thought was the scientific method would negate the need for that. And it assumed that it was like a computer judge, you know, who you can input the facts of a case and a computer judge could tell you if someone is guilty or innocent.

science was thought to be that way and we've now realized it's not it's garbage in garbage out they've always said that for scientific data the scientists themselves it's the same thing you put garbage scientists into a study you're going to get garbage science out of it it it won't work as is it depends on good moral compass good ethical people to be honest in the reporting I mean look at the design of a study, just for instance, if I may. This is classic scientific malfeasance in the way they design a study. Okay, if I want to figure out if a vaccine is working or not, okay, if I want the vaccine to work, I get primates.

If I don't want the vaccine to work, I get mice. Now, why is that? Well, effects are more exaggerated in primates. They're easier to spot. Primates are much more expensive, so I can justify only running it on four primates, four monkeys instead of 400. Now, if I don't want to see the results, if I'm afraid, let's say I'm testing some new heart medicine, I'll do it in mice because I know I can hide it.

It's much easier to hide. I mean, that's like science study Generation 101. is design the study in a way that you get the results you want. And now that's one of a hundred tricks scientists have to get the results they want. I mean, I'm sure your listeners have probably seen some of the studies that have come out recently where they test, oh, we tested the new Pfizer-Coronavirus vaccine on 41,000 people. No true placebo. Okay, well, that's a problem.

And we actually only used a subgroup of like, 73 children, we didn't look at the whole group, for whatever reason we tested it. The results came from 73 children. Well, they don't tell you that, let's say, 16,000 of the children dropped out of the study. Okay, well, why did that happen? That's important data. Why didn't you tell us that? And it's like, there's just so much in science. That's impossible. As you're talking, I'd read an article and it just popped into my head. And I was like, I got to find this again. did you see that Congress has passed the FDA Modernization Act 2.0, which no longer requires new drugs to undergo animal testing before human trials. It said pharmaceutical companies can still use animals to test new drugs before human trials if they choose to.

That's interesting. I wonder what the thinking is there. I mean, I don't want to sound sadistic, but I'd almost say, good. good try it on humans then don't even don't even fudge the numbers with animals now of course they won't look at things for more than 24 hours or 48 hours like they do with some of the vaccine trials but can i just mention an interesting thing about the fda sure sure the the fda was invent okay i was telling the polio story when we started the show and i've taken you on a long journey here by all means take it back where you want to well it's people don't know this

about the FDA, or a lot of people don't. But as I mentioned at the top of the show, invasive species of moth was devastating New England. The one pesticide they were using was called Paris Green, and it was an arsenic-based pesticide. Now, they were using that in one other country, which is Sweden, which interestingly is really the only other country that was reporting paralysis in children at the time.

So Paris Green did. didn't work very well, mainly because it washed off too easily. They'd spray it on the trees that these moths were caterpillars were eating. And it just didn't stick. If you get a really humid night, you know, and you give it a lot of dew in the morning, that was enough to wash the pesticide off. If you got to rain, forget it. The pesticide's gone. So nobody wanted to spray the stuff on because it's just a waste. If any sort of moisture got in the air, it'd wash it off. So they invented a new pesticide called lead arsenic, which was a combination of arsenic and lead, and it was sticky. And this was the main reason that it seemed to work really well was it was deadly to bugs and other

animals, unfortunately, but it was sticky. And so when they sprayed it on the leaves, it didn't come off very easy. So you can imagine mistakes were made. Children started ingesting, you know, you eat the apple, you don't, you know, you live out in the rural area. Only city folk peel the, only city folk peel the apples before they eat them, you know, you eat the apples with the skin on them. Same maybe for some other fruit, cherries, blueberries, et cetera. So there started to become a real problem with poisoning from the lead arsenic. And it wasn't just paralysis showing up. It was other, all sorts of problems. And people started getting concerned about it.

The government wasn't doing anything about it. And finally, through a cooperative with the farmers themselves, the government started a new organization to essentially monitor this pesticide, and it was the FDA. So the FDA essentially got its start from the polio story, which is really interesting. Now, it's become a complete joke in a way. They basically rubber stamp anything that comes through

as long as they pay their bills and as long as the revolving door of, you get promoted to hear and they get promoted to hear, as long as the pay for play is going, you know, your drug's going to make it through. But I just thought it was interesting that the FDA actually got its start through that pesticide

that was associated with the early polio. When you know it's funny because it like obviously you've been clued into a lot more things earlier than some but there will be people before you and people before that and people you know there's there's a lot of people that have been glued in for a long time when you guys get together and you sit around and you talk about you know like these are the problems you know you need people to wake up or to understand said problems but they're really complex they're really big and it's like almost. earth-shattering to realize like how do you move ahead you know it's like paralyzing in a weird way but when you guys get together I'm curious like what do you point out is the biggest issue we face right now like if you could you know like you've found the root problem of like these things don't work they're being like de-de-de-de-de-de but the only way we can change that you you say burning it down like some things just need to burn down

I'm like, well, is it just that media is so complicit? Is it that politicians are so complicit? Is it that human beings in general just don't really care? Yeah. I don't know. Like when you get together and you're sitting around trying to solve such a giant, giant conundrum, have you ever went, this is maybe where it starts? Yeah.

Well, when I say burn it down, I mean that metaphorically. Hello, MSA and every other government agency that's going to try and pen an arson on me. That's not my nature. So I meant that metaphorically, not literally. Yeah, I think about that a lot. Like, what's the difference? You and I are over here. There's plenty of smart people, intelligent people that are over there.

Why are you and I over here and them over there? Like, literally, what is the difference between, why did we end up where we are and they where they are despite to me like let's say there's clear evidence vaccines are harming children the COVID vaccine certainly are harming adults why are they still over there and media complicit yeah of course that so one of the things have you ever heard there this whole concept about the tipping point which is essentially you have 10% who believe this and you have 10% who believe this

and the 80% believe whoever they feel is winning. Yes. They don't really... We're literally just talking about this, but carry on. Yeah, so I think for any of your listeners, yourself, myself included, anytime it feels hopeless, keep in mind, there are plenty of people

in that 80% easily swayed, mind you, they will spout the talking points. They will give the 10% the sensation that they're much more bigger and more powerful than they actually are, because they spout the talking points of whatever, the 10% that appears to be winning. So it really doesn't take a whole lot to get that 80% to like start going over here. So for instance, on Twitter, some of the, I've seen some doctors that have followed me and I appreciate them and them speaking out. I guarantee you, if they hadn't already scrubbed their Twitter timeline, I guarantee you we can go back there and find them saying some stuff that is pretty hateful toward me or stuff I believe in. And they've deleted it because now they're over here.

I'm not saying I fault them for that. There's just certain people who are going to be in the easily swayed category. I welcome them to our team. Don't get me wrong. I think the real question is, how do you get that 10% to come over so that we have 12 and they have 8%? Or how do you just be louder than them?

How do you be more obnoxious? Well, that's an impossible task right now, almost impossible, because, I mean, here I'll just speak to Canada, right? I can't speak to the states. But I mean, when you have a government who's bought into it, who funds our national media,

Yeah. I mean, come on. Yeah. And then you have this, you have this other problem that I've been pondering a lot about and you've kind of touched on it, is that, you know, like, is an organization evil, serve, I'm sure you have your thoughts on that and I'm sure maybe there are some evil organizations. But for the most part, it's this like makeup of an ideology within the group that needs. never gets challenged. And so then all the training refocuses it on the person. And now there's this

group of people that all think they're doing what is best as you say. And you go, how do you pull that back? That's like, that might be a hundred year task because it's been slowly building to where we're at. And so you go, well, how did you make it through then? And I have an answer. I know the answer for for me because I was not six years before COVID. I was, I was like making it up as we fly. I was, you know, but I've been talking about this idea a lot. Somebody, at some point it's either gonna resonate with somebody or people are gonna be like,

you gotta stop bringing this up. But we started a book club. And the book club was a group of men who wanted to be better husbands, better fathers. That's how it started. And then when COVID hit, we never stopped talking. We never stopped yelling at each other, other and everything else. It was the closest I can get to, well, you talked about war.

Once upon a time, there had to have been it where we all trained. If you weren't training, you were going to get wiped out by the rival tribe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And in today's world, we don't, you know, a very, very small portion of us go off to war. So the type of thing that came to all of our doorsteps, a lot of us just weren't prepared. for. We haven't been training for that. We drink a beer and watch the hockey game and going to work and whatever. And yeah, you want to give me that training. Whatever. I don't care and carried on. This one came crashing down on all of us. And how I made it through was having four other men who sat and argued with me all the time. Orr, I would for sure, forrest, be vaccinated. Not even a question. I don't even think it's, I don't even think it's even remotely close. So now I sit on the other side here and I'm like, okay. If I know that, and I'm, And if this podcast spurred out of that group before COVID started behind you, started in 2019, so people know exactly who I am, if that's what it did for Sean, and I can sit here and say the other group members have had different things happen in their life

that are rooted in something good around a book club or a men's group or whatever you want to call it, I don't really care. then tomorrow or today if you're sitting there and I'm speaking to men specifically you should probably start men's group and it only needs in my book four I've heard I've talked to enough guys vance crow as everybody knows was here in town he has a men's group every Thursday night there's four of them they have a number we have a number but the whole point is get in a group talk about things that actually matter because when the next time come you can argue about it and you'll already have that trust built up like I'm not

saying this because I hate you I'm saying this because I disagree and this is why and back and forth you go back and forth you go and one of the group was the first guy I think in the city to wear a mask but he was also the next guy to help lead the like this is actually bullshit and whatever else yeah because we stared at it we argued it and I think and this is like pie in the sky forest but I think if all of a sudden you had more of those form across, and I'll speak to Canada again, or Alberta or Saskatchewan, we'd be in a way better situation. It's not a, it's not a tomorrow boom, easy fix. No, this is like, this is like years upon years of changing and discussing because

like you, the 10% on each side sways the 80 and wouldn't it be nice if it was 25% and that little minority that we think is 10% is actually 3%. They just have the media pumping everything they say and everything else. just go on with life because we outnumber them. Yeah. The Freedom Convoy proved it. We drove across Canada and you're looking out the window and you're like, they say there's 10 people here.

There is thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands and we witnessed it. It's just, it's so, it's such a possibility, but it does take individuals taking ownership of what's right around them. And that has very beautiful consequences. I have this saying it's peace takes to war only one and we people like you and I would describe myself as a peaceful person I'm not a pacifist but I am peaceful I'm the last to fight I'm also the last to surrender and I don't want conflict I avoid conflict.

And unfortunately, the opposite approach is more favored in swaying that 10%. Those people who are loud and obnoxious and get in people's faces and try and sway political elections or do whatever, those are the ones who are going to get noticed and get listened to and get believed. So, unfortunately, people. people who are usually on the right side of history get walked on quite a bit before they finally get to that point where they say enough. We're not doing it anymore. So I think this whole situation has pushed a lot of people to that point where they said, forget it. I don't care. Like for you, I'm going to do a podcast. I'm going to put my name out there. I'm going to put my stamp on this and say, this is what I think, you know, come what may. And it's interesting

you mentioned the men's group because I, you know, I don't know who your listeners are. And company, I wouldn't say this, but I think feminism has essentially been one of the biggest problems in this whole thing, and that the feminist or matriarchal mindset is safety, is trust the experts, they will save you. And whereas the, a sort of male-dominated society is more independent, it's more autonomous, it's more life is full of danger, we will confront danger when needed, but we will not needlessly ruin our lives in hopes of never facing any danger at all. And this is natural immunity in a nutshell is, yes, you will get sick. Yes, you will feel horrible. You will never get that infection again. It's the cost of doing business in the

world of microbes. Just like going to the gym. Yes, you will suffer. You will be sore the next day, but your body will improve. The matriarchal mindset avoids conflict, it avoids danger at all costs. It defers decision making to the consensus rather than to the individual. And so for me, I think I love your idea of men's groups because I think until that safety mindset is abandoned, we're always going to any virus, anything the reaction is here, if we get a snowflake, okay, schools close down. Like, oh my gosh we cannot have school what happens if a bus skids on the road and some kid gets hurt it's like no i'm sure in canada well we we put our chains on our tires and we deal with it we go to school you know

it's it's that sort of rugged autonomy that we've lost because of the matriarchal system that we live within i mean technology has essentially been the biggest enabler of this problem we can fight wars from mobile trailers in arizona okay the old days, if you wanted to fight a war, you had to be prepared to ram a sword through a guy who's standing two feet away from you and risk having a sword being rammed through your guts. That was war. War was fought when it really mattered. You know, you had to believe in your cause if you were going to sit there and risk your life like that. Now you sit there with a joystick and you drone bomb a wedding in Pakistan and it's like, this is not how men fight. It shouldn't be that way. Technology has

enabled an entirely different kind of warfare. And that applies to social media too. Social media is basically the battlefield of the female because it's words and it's consensus. Those are the two weapons of feminine war is you're not with a consensus. You're out of the end group. And I can use my words to get you fired from your job. So in my opinion, you know, if men continue to be employed by corporations and don't get don't um don't look at me i'm guilty as anyone else if we continue to be employed by corporations and we can't freely speak our mind and and we're afraid of getting fired and losing our income because we can't say what we feel you'll lose you'll lose the battle i think men have to figure out ways to provide for their families in such a way they can fight

the war which is speak your mind just like you're doing on your podcast and and not live in this perpetual fear of well maybe my employer fires me and I can't pay the bills anymore. That was a real long diatribe there, but I love your men's group idea. I'm starting one tonight. We're going to read, what's a good book to start with? Well, that's an interesting thought process of what to read. The first one we read was Jordan Peterson's 12 rules to life. That was the first. one of the ones that I thought I'd never I can't believe I say this story

over and over and over again but one of the books that just really impacted me but this is what I love about books maybe it impacted me and nobody else was Michael Crichton Jurassic Park and that was a Vance Crowe he's got a book club in

well it's actually across the states but he's out of St. Louis and he had me read that and I remember thinking I'm going to get nothing from this the movie like right and then I read Michael Crichton and I'm like actually

that was fantastic the movie left out a crucial sentence in that book. It was it was Malcolm the mathematician when he talks about you know scientists we have no idea what we're doing. They left out that scene where he's discussing. Now in the movie he said you know scientists learned how to build a nuclear reactor but they never just stopped to think or scientists can't tell us whether we should or not. They kind of went there. But what did he call it? He called it an inherited wealth. I think, inherited because with science, you build upon the person behind you.

But he was talking about like a black belt judici guy. You can't pass that on. You can teach it, but the other person has to work to get to where you are with science advancements like the nuclear bomb. As soon as you have it, the next person walks in, but doesn't understand the power you possess because they didn't have to go through all the things that make up getting to a nuclear bomb. But if you got your black belt and things, you're dangerous, but you understand it.

So you actually don't go out and kill people because you understand what you possess. And in order to get said Blackbell. Anyways, like I said. I recommend that book too. It's an amazing book. Amazing book. The movie's great. The book is even better.

I hate when people tell me that, but it's really true in this case. Yeah, well, I tell you what, the movie, you're right about a few sentences. I was shocked about that character and that was the best part of the entire book. But how closely the movie did follow the book, for the most part. I was actually quite impressed. Going back to your feminism thought, I just wanted to say this. Sure. Because here in where I am, it was the mama bears who came out with teeth, claws, everything,

and made sure it didn't go further than it already was. And the women, man, as they waited for more and more men to kind of figure out where they were, they held the line for a lot of people. I was very, very, I'm probably indebted to a lot of people. of them for how they handled themselves. When it comes to men, I don't know, I played hockey all my life. So I got to, you know, I got to, you got to, you got to go into these cultures and be around groups of guys and talk and do things and whatever, and that really shaped you. But in the corporation world, in these different things, we just don't, I don't know, it's a pretty

sedentary lifestyle, you know, you drive here, you sit there, you go back, you. You go back, Maybe you work out, maybe you don't, maybe you, and you talk about things that, you know, I've been saying this now for a while. I still want to talk about the Emmettlers. I still want to talk about the NHL. I still love it. I think you can't go so hard that you never talk about anything that's light. And, you know, it's still great to root for a hockey team or, you know, whatever your sport is.

But at some point, when the world's falling apart, we've got to talk about it. The only way I can figure that out is when I look at what we did and nobody, I couldn't have predicted that's what would, you know, I'm very thankful. That's what we did. It's getting in a group and combating each other with words and thoughts and ideas because there's just like there's power and there's force, you know? There's the force of the government saying, if you don't do this, you're going to jail. And there's just the power of like, no matter what you do to me,

you will not change my mind because I'm rooted. I am grounded to the core of the earth, if you will, for a visual, and you will not touch. I mean, that's Gandhi. That's what he had. He had this ability of like, you can torture me, you can do whatever you want. And I don't want that.

I'll be very clear, but to act like we can't get to a point as man again where we were just, and they're already out there, it's just how do you start to change a culture? Well, not overnight, but you can start and you can start in your little community, which will probably filter down to you in the family, then to your family, then to your community. Yeah. And those little changes take time. This all took time.

Mm-hmm. And the solution out is going to take time and effort and pain and all these things. And I don't know what the future looks like. I have no idea if that's a world of no, you know, of no, I don't know. because the world we built here in Canada was pretty fantastic. And then now it's, you know, like everybody's talking about it. Like we're heading closer to like communism than anything. And some people are just like waving the flag, wave them in.

It's like, well, we need to get more people so that we can convince them or at least they can hear an argument of why that's not a good idea. And the media ain't going to tell that story. No. independent places like me will certainly try and discuss it at least for a bit until they tell me I can anymore. Yeah. That's essentially the point of the book I read The Tribal Instinct, which is suggesting that tribes are going to be necessary in the near future for those of us who have a certain way of life we want to adhere to that goes against the mainstream narrative. That's how we will survive. Maybe the next book for the book club is going to be the tribal instinct by Mr. Forrest. It's a tough book. I'd read it first.

Make sure you guys aren't going to get quit your club because of it. Well, we read the Guleg archipelago, man. Oh, that's intense. Yeah. Yeah, and just real quick, I mentioned feminism and the matriarchy on purpose. I didn't say men or women.

Because in the anti-vaccer movement, certainly the majority of the workhorse and heroes have been women. And I wouldn't ever want to discount their role in my, conversion into the sort of anti-vaxxer mindset. It is specifically the aversion to the safety first mindset,

which is a matriarchal and there are just as many men who promote a matriarchal society of your prime minister probably being high on the list of people. Probably number one on the list. In that mindset.

I certainly would imagine he is beholden to money and the power and all the promises that WEF have made to him. And same for Jacenda in New Zealand. I imagine her and your guy are in the same category. But yeah, I think travel instinct is interesting. It is a portrayal of the future that I think is going to be necessary. I don't think as an American, I don't think America is savable. I think we're beyond lost in terms of a constitutional republic, a democracy, whatever you want to call our country.

We're too fractured for it. It will never emerge from the ashes like certain, it's like some people want. It will go through a growth cycle just like every other nation has. We've almost made it 250 years. This is sort of the rise and fall of every empire has been 250 years. We're at 244 or 245, I think, about now. So I don't know. We had a good run.

And I don't think it's save a Paul. Well, here, let me, before I let you add. It's my hope. I've really enjoyed our chat. And I'm glad it finally, you know, I've wanted to sit down with you since I picked up your book. Like I just, my hat's off to you for writing the moth and the iron lung. I do truly think people should read that. I thought it was a very interesting look at something that.

that, you know, was, you know, they referenced polio, I don't know, I don't know how many times through COVID, right? And then I picked up your book and I was like, wow, this is interesting. They should probably talk a little bit about this. Anyways, before I let you out of here, it's the crude master final question, which is he's words. It says if you're going to stand behind a cause and stand behind it, absolutely. What's one thing Forrest stands behind? Is this something you do every show? I do. And is it always that same? question? It is. All right. What's one thing I stand behind? Well, I will say this, the Christian denomination I belong to, it's called Praetarians, and we have a thing called Humble Curiosity.

And I think the world would be better served if everyone engendered this trait of humble curiosity, which is develop curiosity about how things work, the world everywhere, develop the humility to accept when you were wrong about the way you thought they worked. Because none of us is right about everything. All of us will continue to be wrong about things for the rest of our life. And if everyone would start to realize and accept that fact and develop the curiosity that would allow them to explore the truth and freely admit when they were wrong,

we'd be light years ahead of where we are now. So humble curiosity, look for it in stores near you. Humble curiosity. I like that. My thing I talk about with the show is endlessly curious. Oh, is that right? Yeah, the day we stop asking questions is a dark day, you know? Yeah, the science has settled was the death, was what should be engraved on the death knoll of stone of science.

Yeah. Well, I appreciated you giving me some time this morning, For us, for me, it's been something that I've been looking forward to, and you haven't disappointed. It's been thought-provoking.

And, well, I say this to tell a lot of guests. I don't know the next time our paths cross, but I have this feeling like it probably will. So, that'd be awesome. Thank you so much for giving me some time this morning,

and, well, look forward to when we, we meet again. Yeah, Sean, thanks a lot for having me. Look forward to talking again sometime.