Shaun Newman Podcast - #389 - Matricia Bauer

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Matricia has had the privilege of sharing her culture over the last 20 years to schools throughout the Yellowhead Region she is a singer, songwriter, musician, drummer and an artist.  SNP Presents: Legacy Media featuring: Kid Carson, Wayne Peters, Byron Christopher & Kris Sims March 18th in Edmonton Tickets here: https://www.showpass.com/snp/ Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500

This is Brian Gitt. This is Ed Latimore. This is Danielle Smith. This is Kristen Nagel. This is Aaron Gunn. This is Vance Crow. This is Quick Dick McDick, and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Thursday. Yeah, I tell you what. I say this every Thursday, and here it comes again. When I started in 2023, I did not think I'd be rattling off five a week. And I did not think I'd be into, what is this? like the third week of February, second week of February, whatever the heck it is. It's just like, Sean, what are you doing?

I don't know. Sean's having a lot of fun. How about you folks? Anyways, I tell you what, I'm having fun on this side. And while that brings me to my next thing that, you know, always going to stress about a live show, but I'm excited for this one. March 18th is the next SNP presents. It's going to be legacy media, of course, whether you call it corporate, you call it mainstream.

It doesn't much matter. We're going to be sitting down in Emmett, Yeah, you heard that right, Eminton. And we're going to bring in a group to talk about some different things from censorship to, you know, what we're seeing, maybe some solutions from the future. It should be an interesting night. Here's some names you probably remember from the podcast. Kid Carson, he was on episode 303. Of course, he was a longtime radio host out in Vancouver and these other places here in Canada as well.

He got removed for expressing any thoughts about the Freedom Convoy. I'm sure a lot of us remember that moment. Wayne Peters, he was episode 325. Wayne did What's Up Canada. And where I remember Wayne from is when I initially started searching out people to interview on the COVID front, Wayne had already been there. And I found out later that they drew straws to go on his show. So I thought that was super cool.

He's got an interesting background. He's coming in from Winnipeg. So you got a kid from Vancouver. You got Wayne coming in from Winnipeg. You got to go back to episode one, I talk about this one a lot. That's Byron Christopher. So if you haven't gone that far back, go back and listen to Byron.

What are the independent journalist Armageddon-like? Blood and Gets crime reporting, I believe, is how they describe them on his Wikipedia page. He's in Eminton and got to sit with him, going to be sitting with him, hopefully here again before the show. Looking forward to that. And then Chris Sims, she was just on episode 386. Of course, all of you raving about her, we added her. in last minute and she's going to be a part of the next SMP presents. So tickets are in the show notes.

So you just click on that show pass. We switched it up from ticket leap this time to an Alberta company based out of Calgary actually. So show pass. There's a link there. You can get tickets. It's a little different than the previous ones. The table sizes are a little bit smaller. Only eight, eight to a table.

There was one ten. One ten had already sold. So the table at ten, she gone, which is super cool. And then tables of six, too, if that helps. Otherwise, you just do what we've always done, and you can buy individually and kind of sit with a group of people who are all there, hopefully, for similar reasons. So that is March 18th. Let me tell you, I'm excited for that group to come together and see what happens. Like, I think anytime you get smart people in a room, it'll be interesting to just see how they kind of riff off each other, you know.

If they're all musicians, you get the point. business businesses if you're looking for opportunities to team up with the show Monday Wednesday Fridays and who knows maybe Thursdays I got nobody sitting here I like to talk a lot of a lot about the podcast but Monday Wednesday Fridays for sure we got some open spots the Tuesday mashup we're running out of spots December just went so now I think it's November July I think that might be it actually folks like if you're interested in that there's some open spots as well and then finally for individuals you I've been deliberating this for a long time.

I talked about it last week. I talked about it again. I just keep talking about it. And so one of the things that Vance Crow and another listener put me on, and I keep forgetting your name, he's from Sylvan Lake. So please text me because I've somewhere misplaced it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's Fountain.

So it's an app where I get paid in Bitcoin or Satoshi's, I should say. I'm going to be doing a podcast with Vance about this in March to kind of give me a better idea of exactly what's going on, and then, of course, all of you, because certainly there's a bunch of people that are interested in helping support the podcast, and, you know, honestly, I love all the support. I love all of you, find folks listening in, tuning in, everything else.

And this fountain thing is interesting because it basically pays me for you listening to me, you know. I don't quite understand it all just yet, but Fountain, you can look into that, download it off the app, store search out the podcast and and you'll you'll get a feel for it and then of course the next one is substack uh i don't know i i don't know my thoughts on this you know like i was saying about patreon you know i got a patreon account but the problem with patreon is it's you know eventually uh you know

it's it's not going to like what i'm doing whenever that time comes and so uh somebody had mentioned substack uh because obviously they're allowing a lot of people to uh critically think and and uh to share their thoughts. The thing I have to do then is write. And I, you know, I'm not, I've never been a writer. I joke about it all the time. And saying all that, Jordan Peterson, you know, talks about it. You know, you need to be able to think, you need to be able to write, you need to be able to speak.

And so the thought has crossed my mind on whether that's a good avenue, certainly from a long-term standpoint. it probably would be worthwhile. I just got to be careful. I don't overextend myself into too many things because one of the lessons I learned early on was, you know, whatever you're going to do, do it well. And if you're going to have everything, that's great. But if you don't do it well, then, I mean, you know, like,

it's just there and it isn't doing a whole lot for you. So when it comes to changing things up, I have a Patreon account, and I've never felt great about it because honestly, I don't want to interact with it that much. You all know my thoughts on social media. And so substack, I'm thinking about it. I'm heading off on holidays next week. No worries.

We've got content the entire week. It's going to be a fun week. We've got great guests coming in. But the substack thing I'm going to think about on my week and just maybe do a little more research and see if that's something. I love to hear from all you guys and gals. Do you want to even read a couple of my ponderings? Like, is that something?

You know, hit me up the text line. You get it. Yeah, that all being said, let's get on the tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum. For the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals

delivering to your farm commercial or oilfield locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock, Petroleum.comptuille. She created Warrior Women, a drum duo with her daughter. She's also an indigenous storyteller and drummer at Farma Jasper Park Lodge.

I'm talking about Matricia Bauer. So buckle up, here we go. This is Iskoa Chitawachi, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by Matricia Bauer. So first off, ma'am, thanks for hopping on with me. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. I'm glad to be here.

Yeah, I was saying to you via, you know, email that the way I've been, I don't know, the way this show has been going, I just kind of follow what the audience is telling me. and your name came up a couple times. And I was like, well, that's interesting. All right, let's follow it and see where it leads. And so I appreciate you getting back to me and being willing to come on. I'm always interested to hear about different parts of our beautiful province and everything else. And I don't know how I stumble my way into certain conversations, but here I am anyways.

So for the people who don't know any of who've never heard of Matricia, maybe let's just start with a little bit of background. We'll see where we go. Yeah, so I moved to Jasper about 10 years ago, and I worked primarily within the tourism industry. Before that, I was working in the education industry, and I still do that as well, but we get 2 million visitors to Jasper, 20 million visitors, actually, a year. And so that provides a big, you know, energy for what happens here in this particular area. And we're right here in the mountains. I'm an indigenous herbalist. I'm a drummer. I'm a singer. and I'm going to be going to New York do some work here with Destination Canada,

so I get lots of opportunities to travel internationally as well with my work. But my traditional name is Iskowachitiawati-Talwati-Nits-Gy-Gat-Zon. So it's she who moves mountains is in my Nihawak, my Kree language. Can we, did you say, Jasper gets 20 million people through it during the holiday or through it the tourism season? Yeah, so we can get like 20,000 people in a weekend. So we just had like six, we sold 600 tickets tonight in the middle of like October here. So how big is Jasper?

How many people I actually don't know off the top of my head? Yeah, so there's only 5,000 people who live in Jasper and we have like over 70 restaurants. Think about that. That is wild, isn't it? It's so wild because I came from a town that was about 10,000 people and I think we had three restaurants. when you when you when you when you talk about you know like an energy coming through 20 million like that's we're not talking i don't even know what like folks i don't even know how to put that in that uh you know 20 million people over the course of 365 days that's a lot of people

every single day and obviously there's going to be high times and everything else um but man when you think about that that is that's an insane amount of foot traffic It is. We really balloon up in the season. It's totally a different vibe. But even in the winter, we've actually turned into a 365 day destination. So we just finished a really busy Alberta Beer Festival was here at the Fairmont. But then it was also the long weekend. So we had a lot of families that were at ski hill. There was other conferences and events. So now even in the shoulder season, we have conference and event seasons. October sees dark skies, September's season. our music festival. So there's always something rolling on. We just had Jasper in January. So there's always something that's happening here in Jasper now. And because it's a destination and also a winter destination with the ski hill,

it's an attractive place to visit at any time. And I think that the slower times are really great for people like from surrounding areas in Eminton. I ran into just so many people who are here for the weekend from Eminton. Yeah, I was curious, actually, does it get tired? You know, like, I don't know, maybe I'm underestimating how many people roll through Lloyd in a given year. I know it can't be, I know it's a lot, but they're more passing through than stopping and taking in what the town has or the city has to offer. Does it become tired?

Like after a busy season, are you war out? Well, there's no doubt about it. I mean, we have a high time and we have a low time. Most of us don't take any holidays over the summer. So we're working from, especially June, July, August, and September, those are months that our feet are on the ground, and that's when we're doing the majority of our work. A lot of people will take, like, the entire month of November off. We have a lot of snowbirds that are gone for January and February.

So those times are often a lot, like, slower and we're able to do other things. But, yeah, our season is a little different than, I mean, I think it would probably be the same as any other destination resort. if you're talking Canmore, Banff, these kind of places where we get lots of visitors in a very short period of time coming through. Yeah, I mean, it depends. Like, I work on contracts. So I can take as many contracts as I want or as few contracts as I want. If I take too many contracts, and of course I have to hire staff, which can be a little hard to find in the summer.

But you can manage, you know, how busy you want to be. but there's no doubt that that it's extremely busy in the summer. Is this, Matricia, is this something you like you've always been a part of or is this something just, I actually don't know, like how long have you been in Jasper with, you know, in the background of tourism?

And certainly I believe, and you can tell me as much as you like as far as trying to essentially impart some of the culture that because I'm very interested in hearing about the drumming and different things like that because I know about zero. But have you always been into this or is this something that's not relatively new, but I don't know. So I've always been promoting my culture for like the last 20 years. But I moved to Jasper about 10 years ago. But I had been in the Jasper area several years before that working. But I didn't know if I would be able to make the leap to

actually make Jasper a full-time place to stay. I had spent almost, I think, 48 times at the Tonkin one year and then 52 times at the Lobstick in a summer. So we were driving back and forth from another small town in this area and performing in Jasper staying overnight and driving back. And that was starting to get more taxing than trying to find a residence here. So 10 years ago, I made the leap to come to Jasper and see if I could do my indigenous business full time. and that was a great leap of faith. And Jasper is just this kind of community that opened their arms. I've never felt so embraced by a community.

The first three years were hard. I think any time you have a move, you know, you're missing your old community and you're establishing, you know, new roots. But Jasper, you know, is in the mountains. It's a beautiful place to live. And the people that live here are the type of people that want to work in tourism. So they're very friendly. They're very open.

It can be difficult to make relationships in Jasper because a lot of people are very transient that come in. You know, we get a lot of seasonal workers. And so you fall in love and then boom, they're gone. And so the first year I lost an entire circle of friends. And so then I started looking for people that were like, had been in Jasper for a while. So now my circle is with people that make Jasper permanently their home. But I still have a chance to welcome some of those transient workers every once in a while into our circle. So it's lovely to get that breath of fresh air as well.

That's an interesting thought. You know, most places where you set up roots don't have the issue of certainly people come and go. But when you talk about losing an entire circle of friends, you had to adjust how you, because like I assume you seem like you're pretty social person. So I assume that, you know, people that come to Jasper are of the same mentality, essentially. You mentioned tourism and enjoying that industry. But that would be real shock to have them all leave at the end of the year and be like, well, crap. Like, I just lost like eight good friends or whatever it is and to actually have to approach it differently. Yeah.

Well, that was a learning curve for sure. And I still welcome some of those people into my circle. But yeah, that first year, you know, we were all new. as well as gravitating to other people that were new. And it didn't occur to me that they would all leave at the end of the season. But we get lots of Australians. We get a lot of Canadians. People, sorry, I feel like I'm sorry, folks.

This morning is going to be a learning curve for Sean. People from Australia come and work in Jasper? Yeah, we actually, mostly Australians. We get a lot of people, Czechoslovakians, a lot of Filipinos, but the Filipinos tend to stay here. We have the largest Filipino community in like all of Canada. In Jasper? Yeah, in Jasper.

So we had a huge citizen ceremony. But you have to remember with 70 restaurants and, you know, over 40 hotels, you know, 3,000 campsites, you know, an average Canadian will come and work in Jasper and they'll be a manager or, but, you know, like we have hotel rooms to clean. We have garbages that need to be emptied. We have campsites that need to be clean. and maybe back in the day a Canadian would come and spend the summer here doing that. But to be honest with you, we really rely on that group of workers to come in and get the basic work done.

Isn't that wild? I have never, you know, as a guy who's growing up, I grew up on Alberta, Saskatchewan border, right? So just in the Saskatchewan now lived just into Alberta. And I've been through Jasper, I don't know, a handful of times in my life, you know, like it seems like it's, well, it is a very popular day. destination for for albertans and Canadians uh but certainly Banff and a few different spots right along that you know you kind of pick your destination and people get the point but I've never really actually taken a step back to think about how many restaurants how many hotels in a 5,000 town like that that almost hurts my brain a little bit and then to realize it's um people from out of

country who are making it run probably makes even less sense yeah so jasper park lodge for instance has around 200 staff and ummer they hire an additional 400 or they used to and and that is mostly you know students that are coming from abroad or coming domestically and they're working these jobs to get experience and meet other people from around the world who are actually working and who are visiting and then yeah then they go back home uh you know at college time which which is actually a perfect time for Jasper because that four-month season is really when we need people. How odd was it then? I assume this had to be in the strangest whatever duration it was for Jasper because I remember hearing stories about Banff as well.

When COVID lockdowns, all that stuff was going on, tourism just went in the toilet. Like, were you just kind of like, well, this is kind of odd? Like it must have been a bit of a ghost city or did Jasper not feel that? No, we actually felt it a lot. We're actually pretty remote. Like we're four hours from the closest city and we're five hours from Calgary through a highway that's often closed due to snow conditions and avalanches. So we are actually pretty isolated. And when COVID hit, two things happened.

One, a lot of the immigrants, they have are applying for permanent residence or they couldn't, they had to extend or delay their stay or they had to go home. away because of COVID. So that was really unusual. There's lots of people that, you know, ended up staying or ended up leaving right away. And then the other thing that happens is that our town completely stopped. So we are very dependent on tourism. It runs pretty much every aspect of Jasper. So when there was no people, when there was no tourism, we were one of the hardest hit sectors. There was no doubt about it. A lot of people did rely on COVID and a lot of people relied on we you know started um a lot of the local restaurants um offered curbside service and as you know members of the town we we tried to support that as well um but then a joyous thing happened

about a week in is we realized we had jasper all to ourselves which i would say never never happens and so we were able to go that that was the greatest year of skiing in my life and the ski hill was you know open the entire time. And we are all and like everybody here in Jasper loves the outdoors. So there was cross-country skiing, there was downhill skiing, there's skating. And we had the entire mountain to ourself. I remember going to Valley of the Five and there wasn't another soul that was there. And usually that entire parking lot is full all the time. So there was this moment where we got to experience our own backyard to ourselves. But then after a couple of weeks of that, when we were totally shut down, I almost started feeling a bit guilty.

And when they, when we, and we also got a lot of local traffic when they opened it back up again. You know, it wasn't like you were supposed to be kind of out and about, but there were people that were still coming from Emmington. So most of the services that we have here, the hotels were considered essential services. So surprisingly, all of the hotels stayed open. so people were still coming to visit and we did have a little micro economy but all of it was local. It was all Canadians. Yeah, I was, you know, when you talk about being the hardest hit, my next thought, but I think you've kind of maybe answered it. I was, you know, so many people, businesses and if they weren't deemed essential, that would have been a really, really dark time.

But, you know, you mentioned everybody loving the outdoors. And certainly where we are, we, you know, we got big open country to go, you know, find different things. Not saying that made everything easy, but at the same time, it did offer some things that if you're sitting downtown Emmington, you certainly wouldn't have. You having the mountains right there certainly is an opportunity that a lot of us don't have. But the businesses then did find a way to skirt through, if I can use that term, I don't know, find a way to. find a way to, you know, navigate rough waters by kind of, you know, being allowed to stay open. And then obviously the little community being remote, it's not like you're going anywhere else. You're going to support what's there.

Yeah. We really did struggle. We're still struggling as a community, actually. It's one of the things that we are, we still have a real employment issue. We have 700 open jobs right now. 700. Yeah. Which a lot of, there's a lot of signs.

a lot of places saying, you know, one of my favorite coffee shops, it says, you know, we're really running on a skeleton staff, but if you're rude to any of our people, we'll feed you to the bears. And, and, and it's, you know, it's kind of a cheeky little, you know, statement, but every part of that is true is that we are running on a skeleton staff and we are experiencing, you know, high volumes of people still coming through because everybody's desperate to travel again. but we weren't we're not able to relaunch as quickly as a lot of other areas simply because like what I said was a lot of the immigrants had to go home and we haven't been able to necessarily get them back and when they did finally open the immigration they opened it up for a year well that doesn't work for Jasper so they opened it up in October which means that you would have had a hire an immigrant from November to November and we actually just need them for the summer season mostly and so So then you would have had to pay them and everybody was, you know, we had just gone through two years where we weren't really making an income.

A lot of people borrowed heavily. Some people closed up altogether. So the people that did stay were sort of working on a shoestring budget. And so a lot of people chose to just sort of work on their own or, you know, take local people for help. So everybody tried to, you know, help out. I saw a lot of retirees go back to work for their friends for a summer, you know, just to kind of make things move.

belong a little bit. But yeah, I think we're still working on the relaunch. And I think it'll be a couple of years before the tourism industry really gets to the point where they were before. We're going to be seeing the numbers coming back this year, but we're still on recovery and a lot of people are paying back loans that they took out during that time. So I think that the smaller businesses like myself were able to pivot a little easier. I started doing a lot of online classes. That was really gratifying. I couldn't believe that people, you know, wanted to pay for our moccasin or a mitt-making class online. My daughter and I did a lot of online Zoom drumming for just to lift people's spirits.

We always had a Saturday morning show. And we actually still get together once a week and Zoom by drum, drum by Zoom, I guess. And even though, you know, it is a little different. We're all in different parts of the province now. So it's still nice to be able to get together with my drum sisters and connect in that way. And that's one thing that COVID allowed us to do is normalize this sort of online platform. And I find that in a remote community like Jasper where there's not always a lot of other indigenous people, it still allows me to connect with my community in that particular way.

So I enjoy that aspect of it. So learned a few things during the COVID. You know, one of the, I can't remember when I was doing my deep dive, one of the things I stumbled on was, I feel like it was an interview. But I don't know why the brain doesn't want to work this morning. Regardless, I wrote down the power of drumming. You said people don't understand the power of drumming, or maybe you didn't understand the power of drumming right at the start.

I know Jack Squat about drumming. And I'm curious, like sitting on this side, obviously when I hear the power of drumming and all this different things, I'm like, hmm, that seems like really interesting. The fact that you did it through COVID on shows with your daughter and trying to uplift people's spirits and that type of thing. I'm just like, I'm really interested, but I don't know the right question even asked.

So maybe I'll just ask, what is it about drumming? And maybe you can give me a little bit of a story around it and try and frame it so I can understand. Yeah, so I started drumming when I turned about, I think I made my first drum when I was about 35, and I made my big drum when I was 40. And I'm 55 now, so I've been drumming for almost 20 years. But I think I kind of wanted.

into it, not really knowing exactly what was happening. There wasn't a huge community where I was from that did any kind of drumming or even traditional drumming. So I had to start reaching out to other women that were drumming. And it was really an exponential way of learning my culture. I had to learn other women's drum songs. So I had to reach out to other women drummers. And so there's this beautiful community. And every time I reached out to another indigenous drummer, they were so gracious, you know, I had people who mailed me CDs that they had recorded and provide me with drum songs. And then I found other drummers to drum with. And then it started people, that's actually how I started working in Jasper. The Indigenous liaison at the time

had gave me a call and said, I heard that you and your daughter drum in your community, we would love to have you come out to Jasper on Indigenous Day. And then they just kept hiring us and hiring us. And then we did a performance for dark skies. And then Uvei Walter from Jasper Park Lodge saw me. And then he asked if I would sing for the Australian Pacific Tour group when they had a fam tour and they loved me. And then they ended up hiring me for their shows.

And that's when I started traveling back and forth. But drumming for me, the reason why it's so powerful is because it is the heartbeat of Mother Earth. And so it, you know, when you're drumming, you're not thinking about what you did yesterday. And you're not thinking about what you did or what you have to do tomorrow. You're really just in the moment. And I think that lots of times we live in other spaces than in the moment. And that beautiful time to live right in that moment and realize what is happening is good is a beautiful feeling.

And it also, the heartbeat reminds us that we all have our own heartbeat and that we're more alike than we are different. So every human being has a heartbeat and even the earth has a heartbeat. And as an indigenous drummer, I learned the protocol sort of as I went along. And I learned the lessons as I went along. And I was really grateful for the graciousness of my other friends and my other drum sisters. And also a lot of the elders that guided me in my early infancy as a drummer. I was met with a lot of patience and a lot of grace, and I try to carry those forward as well.

And sort of to show how full circle this came, I got a phone call about six months ago from a young Méti woman, and she said, I'm just starting my journey on reclaiming my heritage, and she said, and I heard you're a drummer, and I would love to get together and do some drumming and learn some songs. And I said, yes, I would love to do that for you and with you. And as I hung up the phone,

I realized that was the same phone call I made like about 20 years ago to some of the drum sisters that have helped me along my journey. And I just realized that I have this beautiful chance to give back to my community in that way. And I found that drumming gave me a lot of lessons that I probably wouldn't have learned any other way. And it's been quite a joyous way of expressing my culture. I'm jotting notes as we go here. I'm curious. I'm going to rewind this to when you first

we're going into the path of drumming. Why was it important to learn other women's songs? Well, my uncle told me that I couldn't just sing whatever I wanted to, that I had to learn the other songs of the, like understand what the other songs meant. And so he taught me a couple of songs. but then he said, oh, you can't sing those songs because those are men's songs. And so in Indigenous culture, we do have community songs that everybody can sing.

But then we also have women's songs and then we also have men's songs. And men's songs are usually meant for community and are powwow. And women's songs are usually meant for education and home and connecting to the creator and empowerment. And so they have sort of different roles in how they're presented to the communities, just like everything else has evolved, so has indigenous drumming. Not only is it done in language, but it's also done in English language.

Sometimes you'll hear both Cree and English. Sometimes it'll be all English. Sometimes we'll take a totally English song and indigenous it. So there's a lot of play and a lot of marrying of contemporary styles. And I think that is sort of the way, that evolution the same way that the indigenous culture has evolved and embraced, you know, both cultures. It's called two icing and we need to be able to see in an indigenous way, but we also need to be able to see in a contemporary way. And only with having our eyes open

in both areas are we able to move forward. So I think that drumming allowed me to dive really deep into my culture in a way that maybe I wasn't prepared for, but it just seemed to be timely. It was important for me to connect to my culture. I was raising children, so I wanted to know what to tell them about my culture. I wanted to dive a little deeper into my language, which opened up a whole new world for me in how I relate to my language. And I think in just sort of like decolonizing myself. Drumming just seemed to be a real natural way of doing that. And it has just remained a permanent, very important part of my life.

As you went deeper into drumming and you learned different women's songs because the men's song and the women's song, so then you start singing more women's songs. Do you eventually get to a point where you have your own song then and you teach that to other women as well? Yes. So we, my daughter and I have written two albums, and we recorded our last one in New York City, actually, funnily enough, before COVID. It's about a month before COVID. So we had planned to do an album release a year later, and we've never released that album.

And then, funnily enough, during COVID, we had nothing to do. So we actually submitted our songs to, you know, lots of different, different kind of avenues. And we won an award for the one song that we had recorded. So we have an award-winning album that we've never produced, which seems super backwards, but COVID's been a strange thing. And then because my daughter then permanently moved to another city, we haven't had the time to get together and kind of work down that route. But yeah, it was a natural evolution for us to start to write our own songs.

And because we were in the education field, it was motivating to hear other indigenous people sing their songs. And so it was actually a leap of faith to start writing our own songs. So that was really an interesting process as well. I believe in reading up about you. Actually, I don't need to believe. I know that as a young kid you were adopted at five. And then you talked about, I hope I'm getting this right, decolonization of yourself

and trying to find your roots, basically your heritage. Yes, something along that lines. I'm curious about the time from going from being adopted to wherever it is in your trajectory, if it's in your early 20s or just stumbling back into trying to find out, I assume you're, you know, I'm assuming you're like an investigative journalist, you know, like you kind of like, oh man, that makes sense. Oh, and then you gravitate towards it because as where I sit, I mean, I've had some, similar things with culture and heritage and different things just from where I've grown up

and trying to uncover some things and be like, oh, that's interesting. That makes sense of why where I come from and everything else. Could you give me some insight into that? Because I think that's your perspective on it is, well, I'm curious about it. Yeah. So when I was adopted, it's part of what was called the 60 Scoop. and I was involved in like because I was actually adopted from an indigenous family and put with a white family. And it was very clear.

You know, I remember being adopted. I have all my adoption records. It was an open adoption. I knew of my family. So I was never away from my culture, but I definitely was removed. And my parents were really good in keeping me sort of involved so that itch was always there. but, you know, Calgary wasn't necessarily, like we went to the stampede and I got to see a lot of Blackfoot culture, but I wasn't really immersed in indigenous culture at all.

And I always felt like it was a piece that was missing, especially in my youth and as I got to be older. And I found that that was a part of me that was never really resolved. And so it really, you know, I had met my natural sister when I was 18. I had started beating in my 20s. By the time I was married and having children, I think the urgency to really dive into my culture hit at that point, simply because I wanted to raise my children in their culture.

So by reclaiming my culture during that time, I actually immersed my children in it. So they have been fairly indigenousized as they were growing up because they watched me with my children. journey and I think that allowed them a choice you know and also I wasn't sure kind of where to start or kind of had to delve back into that indigenous side of myself because I had been removed but I do have all of my family is still most of my family is still around and I was really lucky to have my uncle Joe

live in our small town for a while and so we had an interesting connect where we didn't really know we were related at first and then I realized that he was my mother's brother and that was kind of wild and and then our relationship became a little closer and then he started um and then they ended up moving away so what kind of lost lost that um but uh i also have a a relationship with my brother on the reservation and then I was adopted with my other brother so there's you know these different connections that it's kind of a wild story actually when you think about it. But, well, if you don't mind, you mentioned the 60s scoop. And I can read off that 11,000 children were taken from communities between 1960 and the 1980s. But I actually don't know,

I guess I just don't know, you know, like I keep finding these different parts of Canadian history that I just don't know. And so I don't know what the 60s scoop was. And I'd be curious if you could just kind of lay it out to me because once again, I don't know. Yeah, so the 60 Scoop was sort of an organized way for social services to decolonize or to, yeah, to decolonize indigenous children. So like a lot of my parents' generation were residential school survivors. So, you know, those kids were removed from their homes and put into boarding schools. And so they were, you know, horrifically abused in lots of different ways. but they didn't get a lot of parenting skills.

And so a lot of them, when they came out of the boarding schools and got married and had children, didn't have the capacity to parent properly. And instead of the government helping them, what they did was they just decided to remove as many kids as they want. So any kind of problem that happened within the community or within the family, the children were removed. And the children were removed and then put into other care.

So some kids were even adopted to other countries like England. I know of an indigenous man that was adopted down to Australia. So, yeah, they weren't just adopted in Canada, but they were adopted all over the world. I've heard that one of my brothers was even adopted down into the States with a closed adoption, so really don't know a lot of information about that. But what that means is that families are then deconstructed and removed and put into cultures that aren't their own. So the onus of learning about my culture was then placed upon myself because it had been taken away from me to be grown up in an area that I may or may not have been immersed. And there's a lot of debate on whether, I mean, obviously I was put into a home that was loving and was financially very giving.

So I had a lot of privilege that I am grateful for. but for every gain, you know, you suffer a loss and it was my culture. And because all of the kids were removed for the home, you know, my mom died by suicide. And she had died after we were all removed. And so, you know, that obviously wasn't helpful. Like that wasn't helpful for our family situation. You know, we were all taken away and we weren't able to be kept together. I'm really lucky that my brother and I were able to be able to be.

adopted together, but even that has come out of cost. And so I, you know, I persevere with my culture because it was taken away from me. And so I create space and I take up space and I take back my culture as a way of defying the government with what they did. And even though I got financial compensation from the 60 scoop that didn't bring back my family it didn't give me back my connections it didn't indigenize me or decolonize me it just financially compensated me for that and i don't know if you can actually be financially compensated for those kind of things you know it didn't bring my mother back um it didn't put my family together so there was definitely a shattering that happened and a reckoning um so every time i wear my beaded earrings every time i pick up my

drumstick every time I, you know, share my culture or speak my language, it's, uh, it's resistance, you know? Yeah, I, um, you've got my brain spitting on this side because I'm, I'm hearing, you know, like, um, I certainly know all, well, I don't know all about the residential schools, but I've, I've certainly had different people talk about it in the generational, I didn't know what generational trauma was, you know, to even begin to understand that until we talked about. I was like, oh, hmm, okay. Yeah, that makes sense to me. And then listeners haven't heard this.

I got to interview a 91-year-old lady and her descendants were British home children, and I'd never heard that before. And that's that's 100,000 kids from age 2 to 15 that moved from Britain because their parents were killed in mines and the link. just a whole bunch of, and you're like, man, we've put a lot of, like, I say we, I'm more mean, the structure that B has put a lot of undue hardship on a lot of people, and then that goes down the line. And this is just another one that is just like, it's really hard to understand, you know, where I sit, at least.

Well, I think, I mean, obviously, learning that kind of information changes your, you know, paradigm because it alters your perception of what history is like. And then it also, I mean, challenges, you know, our perceptions. I grew up in Calgary too. You know, I grew up seeing homeless people that were primarily indigenous. And I remember thinking like, what is wrong with those people? Why don't they, you know, get their act together? And then sort of the more that I learned about even my own history and allowing myself grace

with, you know, my mother's story, you know, it's amazing that, you know, she was able to raise us as much as she did because of what she would have had to sort of overcome at the time. And, and I mean, part of it, you know, when I talk about intergenerational trauma and look at my sort of own behaviors that I kind of suffered through, like I dealt with depression, I dealt with alcoholism. I dealt with anxiety. All of these things, you know, I wondered like, why did I deal with those? I was raised in a really good home.

But, I mean, I suffered, you know, trauma from all of these other types of information and experiences. And I'll share a story with you. So a scientist told me this story about mice. And these mice actually, I think they were rats. So the rats were exposed to a light and a shock. And this happened over and over again. And then they took the shock away.

And they just exposed the rats to the light. But the rats still reacted to the light like they were being hurt. Even though they weren't being hurt, it was just the light at this time. Eventually the rat got pregnant and it taught their babies to be scared of the light. Now, none of these babies have ever been hurt. So they're just being taught how to be scared of the light. It took seven generations before the rats stopped reacting. to the light. That is what intergenerational trauma is. You don't have to be hurt by trauma to still

experience the trauma. So your DNA actually changes in your body when your parent is exposed to trauma. And so you carry that trauma as you're born. And so without even knowing it, you know, I carry this intergenerational trauma. And I do know it. And so I'm allowed to give myself grace, I'm allowed to like, you know, have a counselor, I'm using, you know, therapy, take medicine that makes me feel better. And I'm allowed to like have days that I don't feel great or not as productive because I suffered from trauma. And so when I meet other indigenous people that are also suffering from trauma, which I would

almost assume would be most of us, I like to kind of use myself as an example of being a cycle breaker and definitely having raised my kids in a very different way, but understanding even that about myself, I would have to say is a lesson that most indigenous people, and most people could learn from. I'm curious, do you think, do you think it has to take seven generations? Seven, I've heard the seven before and certainly in biblical philosophy, and the number seven is quite powerful or at least it is in a lot of different things, right? It shows up a lot.

Do you think it's something that can be changed? I'm going to use the word faster, but you know what I mean, I think. Yeah. I think that in some cases there are people that can manage the trauma given the right support. And I think that support is huge in indigenous communities. I think that grace and opportunity are huge. I think mentorship and friendship and all of these things that have worked in my life can definitely help with that trauma.

I don't know. I know that I have seen trauma. I've seen lateral violence. I've seen lateral kindness. Sometimes indigenous people are the hardest on each other, and I think that just comes from being colonized. And our indigenous culture is very gracious. Indigenous culture is very kind.

But we've also learned a lot from our colonizers as well. And sometimes we haven't learned the right behaviors, and we still exhibit that trauma in ways that I don't think we're always even aware of. So we try to elevate each other as opposed to, you know, denigrate. But, you know, the more successful you are, you know, haters will always come out in some way, shape, or form. And I think you have to be prepared for that as well. When you said something early on, and I am going to butcher this. so I apologize, but something about living out of the two eyes.

One as through your culture and then one as through, I don't know the word you use now, so I can't. But to me, like, I don't know. It's such a difficult, a difficult thing. We live in such interesting times. And by interesting, I mean, like, really, some days I wake up and I'm like, oh, man, like, what's going to be next? You know, you kind of, but to me.

me, I'm like, how do you build strong communities? The community I live in is ridiculously diverse, and I assume Jasper's no different. And you have all these different backgrounds with things that are very meaningful to them. But at the core of most of us, I think, is like, you know, good intentions. And I think if you embrace maybe a little more humility and things like that, that maybe we could hold our communities tighter. But you know, you mentioned one rat study. I'll give you another one.

The one that I've, the one that I've really stared at for a long time is with rats, you can't addict them to hard drugs when they're socialized, meaning they have other rats. They won't touch it. We're talking, I'm going to talk specifically cocaine. But when you lock them up for an extended period of time,

they will become addicted to cocaine. And I go like all of our communities just went through something that, you know, well, has just hit every community. And so you go, now more than ever, we have to find a way to, I don't know, speak kindly to one another and understand that what we all just went through. There was something like, but I don't know the answer to that. And I don't know if that word vomit just made any sense to you, Patricia. No, I've looked at that rat study too because basically he created rat paradise and then and then they were and then the rats that didn't have rat paradise, you know, chose to be addicted in. So we just, you know, that really happened just now. And so addictions have gone through the roof. There's a state of emergency in Alberta for opioid addictions right now. So there's no doubt that that coming off the cusp of COVID totally makes sense because the one thing that, um, If we have to decolonize ourselves, the one thing that we have to do is we have to create relationship.

And so COVID was the absence of relationship, right? We were told to not have a relationship. We were told to, you know, be by ourselves or, you know, just have a few cohorts. And that's why Zoom, that's why what happened. And it was very within the indigenous community. And one of the things actually I loved about it was after about a year of COVID, they realized that a lot of the elders were suffering loneliness and that the addiction rate were going higher. And it was because there was lack of relationship.

And so they started doing, they actually started getting the elders and they started, you know, doing a lot of Zoom presentation. So I was able to go all over Turtle Island and take in all of these cultural teachings that I never would have had access to. being in this remote community because all of the communities at the same time sort of realized what was happening and started changing within the community with that. Now that's a larger indigenous community, but even within Jasper, you know, we all sort of co-horted with about eight people and we stuck with those eight people, but sometimes they would intersect with other bubbles, but we decided to really create a community. It might have been on the ski hill. It might have

been walking, you know, across the street from each other. It might have been in, uh, on Zoom, but, uh, you know, we had like community areas where there was soup available. We had places that, you know, would deliver food. Coco's here in town. I mean, you could just phone them up and say, I don't have access to a meal. They would deliver a meal to you. So there were some really great things that happened within our community in the way that Jasper has always taken care of each other. And so we're really lucky in that way that. that Jasper pulls together. So I never felt like I had lack of community,

but I could understand a lot of people feeling isolated during COVID and perhaps turning to addiction in order to soften that blow. And sort of like, and I, that's totally understandable to me. I think a lot of people did pick up with behaviors that they normally wouldn't have picked up with because they were on their own, you know, sort of even drinking on your own became normalized, which, you know, is something that we

tend to do socially. So, yeah, there's, yeah. When you met with, you mentioned the elders and them doing different Zoom calls and things like that, you know, kind of restore a bit of a connection. As we both know, sitting and doing this as a joke before we started, you know, is one thing, being in person and getting to see body language and feeling that, you know, energy, the emotion. is I don't even have a number for folks a thousand times better but I mean this is this is about as close you can get when when we're you know on opposite sides of the province what are some of the things you learned out of the elders uh because like there's nothing more fascinating to me

than to getting to sit with somebody who is you know 30 40 years maybe 50 years older than me uh that still has their mind can still share stories can talk about things of days gone past, lessons learned, hardships, everything. And I assume from a cultural standpoint, they have stories that just must, I don't know, blow you away. And I'm curious, like, what did you learn getting to sit and hear from these different men and women? Yeah, so I jumped on to the Ontario-Oshinaabe education circle. And they had different facilitators.

So I learned about the seven stars. Wilford Buck did one on dark sky teachings. Ruben Quinn, I did his very last star chart and creed class. And then I also took a course of the PANFW on the West Coast on my beginning cree. And then McKenzie and I jumped on Zoom and we did a Saturday morning drum show. But yeah, you're right. Like I would have never gotten access to these kind of teachings, even in person, because I'm so busy during the summer,

I just wouldn't have been able to make, you know, those kind of trips like to Ontario or to Manitoba or to the West Coast. And so I was able to receive all of those teachings. They always verified that you're indigenous. You had to put like your name and where you, you know, like where you hailed from and, you know, your interest in the group. But I also took my indigenous earth. herbalism. So I took my herbalism 101 through Wildrose College. And right now I'm taking my

T-Simoli, and that's all through online virtual work as well. So I found it, you know, I found that the lifelong learning part of things kept my, kept me busy. And that was a nice way of passing the time for me because I am so social. And of course, you know, COVID, we just sort of traded around doing different meals and making sure that, you know, we were getting out onto the ski hill and seeing people that way. But yeah, I found that COVID was really difficult for me. I'm an extreme extrovert, so not having access to my friend group or access, especially because I'm a musician.

We actually did a lot of porch concerts here in Jasper, so we would get outside and have a, you know, we would have a Saturday where there'd be six musicians on each hour. And so I would have groups of people, you know, in their little pods outside of my condo who would come and watch my concert via porch. So Jasper got really creative as a community to allow gatherings in a way that were still socially distant and felt safe to people to attend. And so that was a lot of the things that we did. But yeah, I appreciated the Zoom.

And a lot of the groups that I still stay in contact, with our from other parts of the country and I still am able to log on and get information. So it really broadened my horizons and my knowledge in that way. You know, you've almost brought me back full circle to music and drumming. And I'd written down when you first were talking about it, being your heartbeat and kind of where your feet are, is it a form of maybe this is the wrong way to look at it. But I was like, is it a form of meditation?

the drumming and a constant rhythm and trying to get rid of your brain going from everywhere else but where you actually are? Yeah, it totally does center you. It is like an active meditation. I'm a certified meditation practitioner through Deepak Chopra and I find that it's very difficult for me to meditate because my brain really never stops working. So an active meditation like drumming allows me to center myself because it's like an active meditation. I think that's one of the reasons why I used to run as well, because running allowed my thoughts to eventually slide to the background and I was just able to be in my body physically active. But drumming is very similar the same way. Drumming in our cultures is considered sacred too. So we believe that when we're drumming, we're opening a portal to.

the creator and it makes them sit up and take notice of what it is that we're doing and he sends his his gratitude down to us for you know practicing our culture and remembering um our gifts and so it's always like if any one of us we have about six indigenous people here in jasper if any one of us is struggling at the time we just get together and drum and that just really seems to alleviate our stress or bring our anxiety down or lift us out of a depression it just it really is a grateful act. And that really was not what I thought that drumming would do. You know, I was so egotistical when I started drumming.

I thought, oh, I'm going to share my voice with the world. And it was the world that shared with me. And yeah, I'm just so grateful. Could you expand on that thought just a little bit? You know, I think so many of us at a young age, think we we know it we got it and you know and that's an interesting thought and i love for you to share a little more on you know what you thought drumming was going to be and then it kind of like sideswiped me like oh oh okay well i had to learn a lot of humility uh had to learn a lot of grace

I still have people who constantly correct me on different protocol. And, you know, I don't really like to be told what to do as much as the next person or get negative feedback. So I had to learn how to accept that in a way, in the way that it was intended. It was intended to help me and lift me up as opposed to bring me down. And but I think that I thought that. drumming would sort of set me apart but what it did was it opened up a community of like-minded individuals and there's a joyousness that I get in drumming with my drum sisters that I don't know if I've ever received in any other way and you know I've I think one of the most grateful

things that I've ever done is raise a family and so then being able to drum with my daughter as a duo for a while there was incredibly gratifying. And I think that out of all the people that I've ever drummed was, she's still my favorite drum sister to drum with. And it's nice to be able to see her in that light. I mean, she started as a teenager with a little girl voice and a little tiny drum. And now she has a big drum and a big voice, and it's even bigger than mine.

And it's been gratifying to watch that transition from somebody who was little to somebody who was little to somebody who can stand on her own two feet and command a crowd. And I think drumming, we often get emotional responses when we're drumming. I think that when you open your heart up to people and they see your true authentic self, you know, I think that we have lots of layers of the way that we present ourselves. And drumming seems to strip all of that away. It seems to create a portal right to our heart.

And I mean, I think as a musician, we all know. that it's a universal language. So when we're truly authentically singing with our authentic voice and using our cultural instrument, I think it just adds another layer to that message. Yeah. Once upon a time we were talking about, and I brought this up lots on the podcast, it seems, but how you bring people together. And, you know, I always quote Daryl Sutter, you know, He coached the Calgary Flames. He talked about church, music, sports. We added in comedy because it just seems to bring people to the same, you know, spot, right?

It kind of fades away everything else. And music certainly does that. I mean, like in the middle of COVID when we had an outdoor concert, if you will, and it was just an open mic at the local brewery. I remember just everybody kind of was like, couldn't stop smiling because they just hadn't heard. I forgot what live music sounded like. Isn't that a wild thing to say out loud right now?

And it was beautiful. I'm curious, you know, I don't know. I'm curious your thoughts on this thought. Because when you talk about, you know, your culture, and, you know, basically the support of having drum sisters. And when somebody's feeling down, you come together and you drum. And it kind of like is a support to help them through different stages and everything else. I think that thought right there is what a lot of people need, is a support group around them that can help them out and care for them in their time of need.

I've certainly been a benefactor of having people around me that want the best for me. But each culture is going to have their different way that that works for them. And actually when I think back to what you said early on about generational trauma infecting the DNA, if you've been raised in your culture, chances are that's exactly what you need. But if you've been raised maybe as it doesn't matter, Christian or Islam or whatever, whatever it is, if that's been your history for a thousand years, longer, whatever the date we want to put on it, that's probably more of what you need. Or am I wrong in thinking that? No, I think you are right. I think that lots of cultures have a way of gathering, you know,

traditionally. We powwow, but indigenous culture is always around music and food and gathering and family and a lot of that was destroyed with us you know residential school and 60 scoop and so that refractured society you know is is putting the pieces together but I mean even I read about a group in in Ghana and all of the women would go to the river every morning and for three hours they would do all of the washing you know and that was when they would sing that's when they would talk that's and then eventually they stopped doing that because everybody got their own washing machines in their homes. And when somebody went back a year later,

nobody was using the washing machines anymore. They had all started gathering back at the river to start washing again because they were all suffering from loneliness. They weren't singing their songs anymore. They weren't gathering. And it was not a gossip group, but that's where they were getting their information. That's where they were binding.

That's where they were getting their joyousness from. That's the community. That was their community. Yeah. And so this independent living where they were all just doing their washing at home had really taken, had really fractured that community sense of, and I think about that lots with how sort of indigenous ways of being and knowing. And we, even Friday nights, we have a local jam that happens every Friday night at the Legion. And it's when all the musicians get together. And that was something I really missed during COVID.

Like it just was, you know, this absence of being, you know, just always knowing, you know, on. Friday night, there was that music that was happening there and getting together with all the other musicians and having that place on stage to, you know, just get up and sing. But even for myself, I would rarely take part in the open mic, but I was almost always there listening and supporting the other musicians. And that was really something that I missed. I missed watching the other musicians because that gave me a lot of, you know, watching other musicians, of course, that's what motivates me to also continue performing and writing my own songs. So. yeah, that was a huge community that,

that I missed. Yeah, it's, you know, you think of the, the world we live in here in Western culture, probably Europe, probably a bunch of different other countries, but certainly the go, go, go, go, go mentality. And what you don't have,

your story about, I think you said Ghana, I've heard a similar one about a water well where they go to, I think it was Paul Brandt, actually, who told the story of getting water from the river, and it was like a, I don't know, a two-mile walk, and then they had to walk.

And so what they did was they built them a well. That way it's right in town. And, you know, Western thought process is now you don't have to walk so far. And every time they came back, the well was destroyed. And they couldn't figure out what was going on. So they eventually sent a guy to watch it. And in the middle of the night, somebody went and destroyed the well. And they questioned him on them.

And what they found out was, I think in this particular story, folks, was that essentially the women went and got the water, got him out of the house, away from some of the abuse that they were seeing if they stayed in the house all the time. And so they actually enjoyed the commute. They got to be around other women and they had the community. Essentially, was it hard? Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't easy, but they enjoyed the difficulty being surrounded by other women of their culture. And here we all have, you know, like the stories of my ancestors coming over and forming these little tiny farming communities in the worst.

weather circumstances ever, but they had community. It's one thing that was very prevalent in their stories is that they had community. Everybody looked out from one another. And one of the things, you know, that I think we're kind of brushing on here is the fact that we all got all these great technologies that allow us to do everything, except none of us have that same community. And you go, how do you get back to that? Isn't that an interesting thought?

Like, you know, with all this progress, you've lost one of the kids. parts of a lot of different cultures because it doesn't matter where you came from. There was a part of your culture you've absolutely lost in the process of progress over the last. I don't know what it is. Is it the last 100 years? Is it the last 200 years? You kind of get the point. Yeah. Well, we actually deal with that a lot even in our community, especially with the retirees. So a lot of people chose to retire during COVID because they weren't working anyway and took early retirement. But unfortunately what that's done is that's put people who are still have a lot to give

their community who now are sitting at home and who are lonely, depressed and not feeling like they're. So there's been a lot of like I was reading a report about an individual, his entire job is unretiring people and using elements to, yeah, I know, to like reconnect them back and doing things that they love to do, but also get paid for in a way that is gratifying and something that they can, you know, kind of do. But a lot of people want to retire early at 55 or 60,

and they're living until 90s. So that still gives them 30 years to, like, be productive in their communities. And we've really just counted that senior as well. And so in indigenous culture, elders are revered. And so, you know, they have a community that's built around them. You know, we love to listen to the. their stories and we make sure that, you know, they're not left alone and that they're cared and fed for. But I don't see that in like a traditional society here as much. Our seniors are often,

you know, by themselves and sort of left alone. Yeah. And we hit this point, and I don't know what age that is, because there comes a point where we discount what they have to say and you don't hear from much anymore. And that might be being put in, um, uh, a retirement facility or something like that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how it happens. But I do know this. If you stop using your mind, you may lose it.

Like, I mean, you have to be active. Your body doesn't just get to, you know, like you have to continually do things. And when you stop, bad things are going to come. Not just depression, but like health issues, a whole bunch of different things. The meaning of life isn't found by putting your feet up and doing nothing. That's, I think Jordan Peterson's once said,

that's a holiday a holiday is going to to the the wherever the ocean or the river or whatever you know and drinking dackeries or whatever what have you but like you know you need a plan because if you just sit around and don't do anything i mean hello that was covid we sat and watch net you can only watch netflix for so long before you're like okay i need some human interaction i need to i need to talk with some people i need to get out and do some things in my community otherwise you know what's the next alternative and a lot of people turn like we talked about early on, to drugs and different things like that. Well, and I think that we're actually doing a disservice to our senior community

when we discount what they have to offer. And I think it's been probably even bigger in the fact that, you know, technology has increased at such a rate that if you're not keeping up with it, then you're sort of out of the loop. And that happens to a lot of seniors. They just, they're not able to keep up with the, with the way that technology is. And so they're kind of excluded, you know,

and how have we been getting all of our information over COVID? Well, we've been getting it online or through the internet, which a lot of seniors don't have access to, and they're not on Facebook. And so then how do they, you know, how are they? Yeah, so a lot of the seniors that, you know, we get to see on, are facilitated with, you know, other individuals. So, you know, there is definitely a point here where, I go in once a week and I do drumming at the seniors center here in Jasper.

And last time I took in like my feathers and my drums and my rattles and I dress them all up. But like as soon as I put a drum in their hands, their face just lights up and they just start drumming. And it's always amazing like how connected they are to with what's happening even though they don't appear to. But music seems to have this effect on people. and I think for a lot of these older individuals, they've never held on to an indigenous drum and been able to drum it. And it's sort of a lovely interaction,

but it's amazing how alive they become in that particular moment. Yeah, it sounds like really, I don't know, what the word is, but to actually treat them like a human being and care, you know, is we've got all these facilities. And I'm not against, like I sound like I'm against them or something. I'm just the idea that you can just, you know, stick them in a facility and, and then you just move on with life. And they're fine. Like, it's like, it doesn't matter who you are.

Yeah. Doesn't matter what stage of life you're in. Like, uh, human interaction is like really, really, really, really, really beneficial. I can stick my hand up and say, I'm the first to attest to that because, uh, you know, I'm an extra vote is just like you, Matricia. and before COVID, I was doing every single interview in person. It was one of the things I wanted to do. And I'm not, you know, one of the benefits of COVID is it's opened my eyes to I can interview anyone on this planet if I put enough energy into it and find a way to have all these different

interactions. But it still doesn't top sitting in front of somebody and having a conversation. It's just, it's not the same. But as far as, you know, a lot of different segments of the population, Yeah, we got to find a way to, I don't know, find that level of care again. I don't know where we lost it and I don't know exactly how to find it again other than it starts with conversation and certainly opening up some ideas and hearing some different thoughts. Oh, for sure.

And I think it's one that we have to continue. I mean, we saw what happened during COVID with some of the senior centers and the lack of care, especially in Quebec, where there was, you know, seniors dying at an incredible rate. you know, the breaks of COVID and it just sort of really highlighted, you know, that end of care that we provide to our most vulnerable population. And maybe because I'm starting to like dive into that area, I notice when I'm with the other, with seniors, like, I'm not that far removed from the age element. And so it kind of makes me think, geez, where am I going to be in 10, 15 years, you know, like, am I going to be able to still be independent, you know? And I definitely think of those questions now, like the closer that I get to that sort of stage. And I wonder how, you know, my community will be able to support me in that endeavor as well.

So Jasper seems to be pretty special that way. And but, you know, it's not a retirement community. It's an active community. So it's a difficult one to retire into. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, as two independent people here, I think, talking, you make a good point. I don't know how, I'm frustrated.

when I, like I, I, I banged up my knee. This is probably, I don't know, a year ago now. And I had a real hard time walking. And I'm a guy who still likes to play hockey and be active. And then you bugger up your knee. And all of a sudden you lose all the things that you enjoy doing. I'm going to, you know, you wonder how many elderly folks you run into that are grumpy. And they're grumpy because they've lost their independence.

And I actually really, you know, admired my grandmother who up until she passed was still driving, was still dealing with. the flowers and everything at her facility, right? Like she never lost her independence. And that's a beautiful thought, actually, maybe as a person gets older to never lose your independence because I can imagine having to rely on everything. It doesn't mean you don't want community around you.

It's just like when you've been independent for so long to lose that, I don't know. That'd be a tough thing as well. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, that's a two-folded thing because I did notice some seniors that recently made that transition into home and they're very, very happy. They have their sort of independent living as well.

But I think they were very happy to sort of give up the responsibility of caring for a home and providing their own groceries and, you know, just it was, I think it was a grateful to be able to like, you know, have a meal provided and not have to worry about. But still, you know, if they wanted to have their soup in their own kitchen, they could. So there's definitely, you know, different ways of retiring. I just hope that everybody can, afford to retire in in a dignified way. Yeah, that's a yes, agreed. Well, I appreciate you giving me some time this morning. I want to do the the, the crewmaster final question. And then I'll,

leave you be. But either way, I've enjoyed you coming on and sharing a bit of your story with us this morning. The crew master final question is, if you're going to stand behind a cause, then stand behind it, absolutely. What's one thing Matricia stands behind? Oh, definitely I stand behind women and empowerment and independent entrepreneurship. I've found a lot of space and a success in being an indigenous woman entrepreneur. And I've seen the same space created by other indigenous women that have been able to provide for themselves, provide for their families, and do what they love to do and also be supported by the community. So if that's the cause I have to pick, then on the fly, that's that's the one I'm going to go with.

Well, thanks again, Patricia. I appreciate you sitting down with me this morning. And all the best to you here as we, you know, move through 2023. And hopefully for Jasper and for Canada's sake, tourism continues to pick up. And you guys, you know, start to see, I don't know, the benefits of more people coming to explore the area and nature and everything else. Yeah, for sure, Sean. So thank you so much for giving me a place in a space to chat. And next time you're out in Jasper, make sure you hook up. We'll do.

Okay, sounds good.