Shaun Newman Podcast - #402 - Tanner Hnidey

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Author, speaker, lay-theologian and economist in industrial organization. He's an indpendent commentator who has worked with many groups and organizations offering political and economic expertise. You can find him at tannerhnidey.com Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Let me know what you thinkText me 587-217-8500

This is Francis Whittleson. This is Benjamin Anderson. This is Dallas Alexander. I'm Alex Craneer. This is Forrest Moretti. This is Chris Sims. This is Chris Barber and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Wednesday. Hope everybody's week is moving along. I continue to, I don't know, recuperate. I don't know. I didn't realize how tired I'd be from this past weekend in Emmington. And it's dragged on a few days. I'm not going to lie. So I've been slowly pulling it back together.

and I hope you're going to enjoy today's episode. But before we get there, of course, let's talk about some of the great sponsors of the show. We'll start with Blaine and Joey Stefan, Guardian Plumbing and Heating. I said this last week, and I think I'm going to mention again, I had a guy tell me the reason he started listening,

and it was a business owner in town. It kind of, I guess, surprised me a little bit. He was just like, yeah, the reason I started listening to was Blaine and Joey Stephan, which was cool. That was episode 337. And up until that point, he, you know, I guess just hadn't listened to it. And I was like, oh, okay.

And he's like, I was like, well, what did you think? He's like, well, they tell you what's on their mind. And I'm like, isn't that the truth? And it sounds like he's been listening ever since. So not only are Blaine and Joey, you know, helping support the podcast, but if you go back and listen to him, they definitely added to it anytime somebody says they listened to one episode and that hooked line and synchered them, well, I tell you what, that's pretty spectacular in my mind.

So if you're sitting out there somewhere in this beautiful country and you're going, man, I could really use a change of pace, a new job, and you don't know where to land. Here in Lloydminster, Gardening, Plumbing and Heating, well, they will stand by their employees. You know, I tell this story over and over again because I think it really, you know, were there other companies that didn't push all their employees to go down a certain path? Certainly there were. And certainly Guardian and Plumbing and Heating is wonderful. of those. And I think if you're looking for somebody that's not going to try and mess around in

your personal life, these are, you know, this is a place to land. Anyways, they're looking for plumbers, HVAC tax, installers, and apprentices. And, you know, in their words, what makes them different is their service team works seven days on, seven days off scheduled, 12 hours shifts, no night shift, no on call. And, you know, if you're traditional, they also offer traditional five and two schedule and great benefits, awesome wages, great team. Just go to Guardian plumbing.ca where you can schedule your next appointment at any time. The deer and steer butchery, you know, April is around the corner, and that means Sean's going to be getting his hands in, I don't know, in, is that right,

on maybe, on some meat and helping out at the deer and steer for a morning or an afternoon or maybe, you know, who knows, Sean gets talking, maybe it may be a full day. Either way, if you got an animal, you're looking to get it butchered in the Lloydminster area. certainly the deer and steer butchery is in the area looking for you to, you know, drop off an animal or maybe get your hands, you know, they say, you know, like some people use that. I'm like, oh, I think a few more people should try it out because, you know, everywhere I go, you know, there's a lot of people staring at some of the stuff going on the world and going, like, what is going on?

And how are we going to get through this? And like, what skills should a guy be learning and that type of thing? Well, anytime you can get your fridge or your freezer stocked and help out that. And I know a lot of hunters are like, well, I already do that. It's like, yeah, fair. Hey, listen, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, but there's a lot of us out there, and this guy's one of them, who needs a refresher course or maybe the basics. And if you're, you know, going to get an animal done anyways,

why not have your hands in on the process? That's my thought. Give them a call. 780870-8700. Three Trees, Tap and Grill. They, well, what did Tews say to me again? He's like, man, they got great food. Like, do you need to say more than that?

Every time I come across three trees, I'm like, yeah, they just got great food. And if you haven't met Jim, excellent to excellent man with a fantastic location, honestly. It's a beautiful restaurant. And about once a month, they have live music. I always say go creep them out on Instagram and see who they're bringing in. And by all means, I think those nights are pretty special when you can get out to a little bit of live music, have a great meal, and spend it with some family, friends, a significant other. You get the point. I would say give them a call and book a reservation.

780874-725 would be my suggestion. And finally, Erickson Agro Incorporated Irma Alberta. that's Kent and Tasha Erickson family farm raising for kids and growing food for their community in this great country. I got to meet his dad on the weekend. They were at the show. I thought that was super cool to see, you know, some of the sponsors make it out, make a trip, and kind of see what they're all about.

And so, hey, they're supporting the podcast, and I appreciate that immensely. if you want to help support the podcast, shoot the text, text the phone, like, listen to me, like I just can't spit it out today. Come on, Sean. Text the phone line,

and I would love to hook up with you and see what we can. And my apologies, if I haven't gotten back to anyone over the last week, I'm not going to lie. Sean has been extremely busy and I'll be sifting through my text messages

to see if I missed anything. So if you figure I've missed anything from any of you, just text it again. I promise it was nothing personal in the course of last Wednesday to today, which has been a full week. I don't know. Sean's been going just about as hard as he can go, and you've been hearing that probably in and out over the course the last couple days

as I pull myself back together. It was a lot. It was a ton of fun. Don't get me wrong. But it was a long couple days. Either way, if you're looking to partner up with the podcast and like what I do, want to help out, I would love. I would love to hear from you, so shoot me a text.

Finally, Gartner Management is a Lloydminster-based company, specializing in all types of rental properties to help meet your needs. If you're in the area, you're looking for a spot. Give Wade Gartner a call. I promise you will not regret it. It's 780808, 5025. Now, it's getting on the tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years. They've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol,

chemicals, delivering to your firm, commercial or oil fuel locations. For more information, visit them at Hancockpatroleum.ca.ca. He's an author, speaker, Lay Theologian, an economist trained in industrial organization. He's an independent commentator. You can find him at tannerna day.com. I'm talking about tanner in a day.

So buckle up. Here we go. This is Tanner Nadee, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Okay. Well, welcome to... Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Got Tenor and a day sitting across from me.

I've done everything backwards today. I texted him yesterday. I had a guest fallout. So, hey, we keep running into each other. How about you just come on the show? Sure, sounds good. And anyways, he walks in and I'm doing the ads. I'm doing everything backwards today.

Usually it's complete reverse. So we'll see how this goes. How are you doing today, sir? I'm not bad. How are you? Well, I tell you what. So that is, that's pretty decent. I don't drink.

What is it? Caramel coffee or something. Yeah. Ice caramel coffee, my absolute favorite. And I don't normally drink it in winter. but we're now into the end of March. And I mean, if you don't start drinking it now, when are you going to start drinking it, you know?

And I like them. I get teased for it quite often, but that's fine. You know, I'm confident and secure in my drink of choice, and I'm going to continue drinking it. What are your thoughts? What are your thoughts? When you were texting me, so for the listener, you text me,

I had to take a caramel coffee or something. I'm like, okay, yeah, totally. But in my head, I immediately go, I got to go to Starbucks or something because all I drink is black coffee. I just, I like black coffee. I've trained myself to enjoy the simplest of measures, so I never need anything.

So I never get. So I'm just like, can you get a caramel from McDonald's? I assume you can, but I'm like, geez, I'm just going to ask really dumb questions here and get to the bottom of this so I don't run around town looking for a car. And then you're like, oh yeah, they have them everywhere. So I even ask the kind of drafts, you get a caramel iced coffee, you start laughing. Yeah, I'm like, all right, we'll take two of those. So, you know, here you go.

Yeah. Now, for the listener, because they're going like, what are you two rascals talking about? Lots of people know exactly who you are, you know, especially from this community. But, you know, across, you know, the listenership I have, which, you know, extends across the provinces, bit into the states, that type of thing. I wonder if you wouldn't give a little bit of your background on who you are and we'll, I don't know, We'll see where it goes. Yeah, sure, totally.

Well, so like you said, my name is Tanner Nadegh, and I'm an independent economist. I was trained in economics from the University of Calgary. I specialized in a sect of economics called industrial organization. I took a lot of classes in industrial organization, and that just has to do with imperfect markets. Basically, it says we live in an imperfect world, and so how do people act in an imperfect world with imperfect information and so on? But with regards to the larger economy as a whole, with regards to taxation, government policy, et cetera, et cetera, I tend to adhere to a branch of economics called Austrian economics. And for years it was considered to be, I think, more fringe, not I think for sure, for years it was considered to be a more fringe style of economics. and it doesn't deal so much with actual modeling, economic modeling and so on.

But in recent years, it's experienced a resurgence, especially as governments around the world continue to spend and increase taxation and increase the size of the government and so on. And basically Austrian economics says, whenever government gets involved in just about everything, it turns it into something worse than what it otherwise should be. And so it advocates for small government, low government, less government, and basically letting the individual citizen do what he or she wants according to the precepts of law.

And so that's my economic background. That's my economic philosophy. And what I do now is I'm a speaker and I'm a commentator and this, that, and the other thing, I provide, you know, advice for groups and so on on policies and research, et cetera, et cetera. I used to be the VP of economics for a group called the Alberta Prosperity Project. and what I try and do in my day-to-day life is take what I've learned with economics and how individuals act according to the principles and rules of economics. And then I try to understand the world at large from an economic perspective

mixed with a Christian perspective because I'm a Christian. And so what I do is I say, okay, so Trudeau or some other politician or individual is doing this thing X. And then I say, why is he doing thing X? and how does that thing compared to the scriptures or Christ or economic thought and theory and so on? And so that's what I do in my day-to-day life. And it's been fun. It's been very busy lately.

The government's given us so much to talk about, as you know. And yeah, it's been a real fun ride. It's been fun. Did you ever think you'd be the wild child for saying you're a Christian? Oh, it's a good question. You know what? Okay, of course, my dad was a teacher at the high school here in Lloyd. he was a calculus teacher.

And even when I was growing up, you know, when I was growing up and going to public school, it seemed to be that my year was one of the last years where it wasn't quite radical to say you were a Christian, at least in elementary school. But you could see the shift coming. They were taking prayers out of school. They were taking, you know, even this song, Johnny Appleseed and so on out of school. They were taking all of those things out of public education. And they were transitioning into something much.

more secular and something much more progressive. And so I think by about middle school, you could tell that it was becoming radical or, yeah, oppressive or hateful to be a Christian. When I was younger, maybe not so much so, but now certainly. Have you seen all the, I assume, but I should never assume. Did you see James Reimer with Samson shirts just recently? And Proveroff, obviously, with the Philadelphia. flyers. Yes. I assume you had like you read their comments and you go, listen, I read their comments and go, this is a no news story, right? Like there shouldn't be anything, but it attacks what has become a new religion of, you know, like you can't attack that. Yes, totally. You hear it's the

funniest thing because you, you know, I don't watch intermissions anymore. I love hockey. I love playing hockey. I love watching hockey. But you almost can't watch the intermissions because. because they're so chockful of political newspeak that it's intolerable to watch. And so individuals like Proverrov or Rhymer or the Rangers themselves as a team say we're not. Which was fascinating. Fascinating. Fascinating the New York Rangers. Wasn't it?

Isn't that interesting? I know. And then I almost got swept under the rug a little bit. Quiet, wasn't it? So much quieter than Rimer and Proverard. James Rimer? Let's pull out the, not the literal, figurative gun. Yeah.

And let's blow them up for it. New York Rangers' entire team decides they're not going to do it. Or organization or however it is and it goes and it's in New York. I know. Oh, huge. You'd think that would make front page news like for a week, but it was so much quieter. At any rate, okay, so Provarovar Rimer decides to stand up for what they believe in, what they believe in biblically and biblical values.

And then you listen to the commentators during intermission to the pundits and so on. And they love to scream how hockey is for everyone and hockey is diverse, et cetera. But they don't really believe it because their real belief is if you don't believe what we believe, then hockey's not for you, right? I remember listening to, I think it was sports nets intermission during the Proverov controversy. And they were just, I mean, those commentators were ready to honestly launch into space. You could tell they were so furious at what Proverov did. And you could tell they were so mad.

They were so mad. And it's like, well, if hockey is for real. everyone then what does it matter to you what Provorov decides to do with hockey's for everyone but they don't really believe it instead their belief is if you don't believe what we believe then hockey or whatever else in society isn't for you it's a wild thing to watch my game that I because I'm I'm much you know like man the oil is just one again like they just seem to have this little mojo going and I like to listen to six things

I like to listen to 630 chat. I actually don't like to go to, you get into the song and dance, the theater of TV, and it just just bothers me. And they don't even have to do anything anymore. You know what they're trying to do at all times. And it's really interesting to sit now and watch. Because for so long I never, I'm sure it bothered people 10 years ago. But you know, once upon a time, man, well, I've had them on.

I hope to have them on again, to be honest, but I had Ron on, right? McLean. And I tried explaining, and I probably did a very poor job of this, because I didn't really understand what him and Don Cherry represented. But they really represented our culture, right? Progressive versus, what, classic?

Sure. Yeah. Like, Dawn actually talks about getting down on his knees and praying to God, and then what does he say? And then, like, three weeks later, he's coaching Bobby, or something along the lines that might be butchering the story. just a little bit, but you understand. He talks about old values and, you know, like, he's brash.

He says it like it is, and you got these two people, and that's society right there. I'm not saying it's perfect, no, but that's pretty much it. And then they took them out on remembrance day of all things and have never apologized and they just move on and say dawn was one, whatever. And the West lost its absolute crap, which they should have. because he represented us quite well, even though he's not a westerner, which is funny, you know,

it's kind of actually the odd because Ron's a westerner and Don was... Anyways, get what I'm going with us. Yeah, totally. And it's the funniest thing, because when they fired Cherry, it was at least as best as I remember, basically for being too political.

That was the official story, is he shouldn't have said this, he shouldn't have said that, he shouldn't have said all these things. Right, you people, of course. But then you listen to what they talk about today on the intermissions, and they're far more political than Cherry ever was.

No, it opened, It opened the doorway. Yes. It opened this doorway to talk about everything politically. Right, right. And so as long as those individuals now that are commentating tow the broadcasting line, then by all means they're free to say whatever they want. There's no, you'll notice there's no real diversity of opinion on those panels anymore.

It's just this is the narrative that we're pushing. And if you don't adhere to it, then you're hateful or racist or a bigot or what might have you. And so you're right. It's almost like when we, when hockey lost Jerry, at least in that pronounced aspect, it's almost like a dam was opened up. You're right. It opened the door. It opened up these floodgates to just completely crush the audience with this new narrative.

Have you watched TNT with Paul Bissonette and who am I thinking of? Who is it? Is it talk it? Jeez. Or it was talk it. Yeah, because he's with the Connoissellett. It's not right. Yeah.

But I know what you're talking about. I haven't watched a full episode, but I've watched segments and clips for sure. I'm going to, I got that. You know, to the listener, they're going to be like, oh, nothing ever happened. But what ended up happening was my computer kicked off. And it does this from time of time. Yeah, I got the anyways. So we sat here and troubleshooted for like what has been 15 minutes, you know.

And it turned out to be one of those simple like, did you just unplug it and just try plugging it back in? You know, like fixes? And you're like, how would that make? any sense and yet it worked. Either way, thanks for sitting through that. I was talking about TNT and then, you know, I was like, I went to go look for it and then the computer does what it does and hockey panel because we were talking about that right now is pretty much anyone if you are, if you like watching the NHL, usually the people that what gets floated around is Paul Bissonette. And he's on there and he usually says some inappropriate things that aren't that far crazy,

but that's such a long lost form of anything anymore. That's the one they stare at. That's the one I was going to bring up. And in sports, I don't know many other ones quite like that. Right. Yeah. And that brings up a point where I don't know who said it, but someone said it. I'm sure someone said it that talked about how there's no humor in a communist nation,

for example. You know that you're in a totalitarian state when no one can laugh for fear of being. well, in our, not saying we're totalitarian, but in our society, you laugh at something and you're cancelled, or you look at something the wrong way and you're cancelled. And so you're right when you say this, well, most forms of humor are in a sense lost because people are so scared to laugh about anything for fear of losing their jobs or, you know, losing credibility, what might have you, that when someone actually does engage in humor, like actual old school humor, it's alien, it's foreign. It's like something we've lost. Did you see Woody Harrelson on Saturday Night

laugh? No, I didn't. You haven't seen that? No. Where he has his opening monologue and you haven't seen any of this. Nope. We're going to take a brief pause while I show you a video that is going, you're going to be like what? Sure. And what I'll try and do for the audience, because I'm not filming today, what I'll, what I'll do is I'll create some work for myself and I'll rip the audio so they can hear it as well. And then you can hear what he says. So we're going to take a brief pause. Give me a sec.

Back to the tree in Central Park in that script. Put yourselves in my place. Lay the curve of your neck against the roots of the tree. What kind of tree was it? I mean, what kind of trees they have in Central Park? Oh, yeah, it was a palm tree. So lay your head on the palm, fire up a hooter from Jeremy. And start reading, okay, so the movie goes like this.

The biggest drug cartels in the world get together and buy up all the media and all the politicians and force all the people in the world to stay locked in their homes, and people can only come out if they take the cartels drugs and keep taking them over and over. I threw the script away. I mean, who is going to believe that crazy idea being forced to do that. drugs I do that voluntarily all day long anyway it's about that time still no jack okay well we got a great show for you tonight Jack white is here I just fired us back out oh yeah so for the audience they just got to listen to the last little

clip it's about a six minute six and minute video on YouTube but sorry finish your thoughts what did you think because that's the first time you've heard that right which anyways I'm glad I could yeah yeah Thank you. Yeah, I don't watch a whole lot of media. But with regards to Harrelson's final joke, I think it's his brilliant meta joke that I thought it was so indicative that the audience didn't laugh because in their hearts they know it's true. It's one that it makes you chocolate, makes you laugh because it's true. There's a serious element of truth in what Harrelson was saying at the end there. And I think the silence in the room was deafening.

Actually, that's what caught me most. The joke itself is brilliant. Insofar as it perfectly encapsulates what's been happening over the last X number of years. But for me, what I was most interested in was the fact that the audience didn't have a solid laugh after. Is it because it's pretty simple? It is the giant telephone in the room. Nobody is talking about it except for the people that are talking about it that are racist, misogynist, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Push to the side.

You guys are all extremists. but on Saturday night live you've got a bunch of people in this room ready to have a good time and he slides in this nice little and he lays it out for six minutes you have no idea it's coming you're solely fully bought into

what is he leaning against a tree what's this thing and then he lays out I just left I take it you know and you're just like oh my God because that audience would not have been expecting that no no absolutely not it was for them it would have been so shocking

for me it's well and for you as well I'm sure your audience it's something that you know, it's almost it's almost comforting to know that other people and it's, you know, are catching on and see what's happening and are speaking about it on something as mainstream as SNL. But yeah, for the audience, it would have been so shocking, I think, to listen to and to hear, as truth so often is, right?

It's so often that when you speak truth in a world that's so categorized by lies and by deception and by a desire to twist reality as it actually is, to actually listen to something which is true or which describes the truth as it is, is shocking. It's social. You know, I think that's actually an excellent. I think the fact that speaking truth is shocking in this day and age is an excellent indictment of just how insane the world's become. We actually live in a world now where if you speak about reality, as reality is.

If I say the walls in your office here are gray or we're sitting at a wood table, we live in a world that's so cataping. categorized by lies, that that's a shocking thing. Like, men are supremely shocked to hear the truth nowadays. And to be totally honest, I agree with the ecclesiastes, where the teachers like, well, nothing really changes under the sun. And so they were just as shocked at Jesus as they were with Woody Harrelson saying something like that on SNL. You know, it's just because we live in a world that's so categorized by deception

and this desire to suffocate the truth so it can't breathe anymore, that when a man or a woman does speak what's true and talk about what's true, and act in accordance with truth. It's the most rebellious thing in the world. Do you sit back? How old are you? I'm 24. 24.

You know, it's been interesting. I got to meet a 16-year-old girl at my show, and she wrote something that was just like profound for a 16-year-old. It felt like a 60-year-old wrote it kind of thing. You're like reading this. You're like, how is it? And I've actually, it was another teenager in Ottawa that I sat with at, in the hotel lobbying.

I sat there and had this chat. And I said, how can you possibly have that profound of a thought? And it goes, oh, I don't know. I don't know. And I'm like, it's funny. I was saying to this young girl, I was like, you know, I never think to, it's, it's kind of this like weird thing. I think to ask old people, but at the same time, do we?

Not overly. And you certainly don't think to talk to the young people. You know, on a funny side note, my three-year-old is, we're trying to potty trade them, right? He'll, no problem. But he doesn't want to go poop on the potty, right? And so I'm sitting there and I'm just racking my brain. I'm racking my brain. I'm racking my brain.

And it was actually a couple of the guys who sponsored the show, Blaine and George, Stephanie who got talking about how they were doing family chores and they they they started asking their kids and their kids kind of as soon as they were involved and I hope I'm doing the story justice blame but or Joey maybe Joey I think no blame blame geez it getting mixed up hey fellas anyways just by involving their kids all of a sudden it changed and I'm like I wonder if I can ask a five and a six year old how to get their brother to go poop and you I tell you what that conversation was like highly enjoyable I don't know if it's gonna

work, but we're going to try it. Sure. Like, why not? Yeah. And I mean, not that you ask a three and a four year old what's going on in the world. But at the same time, there's a lot of wisdom coming from people in your aged graphic and younger, to be honest. Oh, yeah.

Pretty cool. I was reading the other day a paragraph from an author I often quote named Chesterton. And he's talking about how children, and I totally agree with him, how they see life so much larger than adults tend to, insofar as okay. So you go on a plane and you just dread it because there's a child behind you in the seat. And you know that if he wants to, he'll kick that seat for hours. And he won't get tired of it. He'll just kick and kick and he'll just keep kicking his feet or swinging his legs.

And he can do it. Well, as far as we're concerned, as adults, add infinitum. He can do it forever and never get bored. Whereas here we are, you and I and other adults. And it tends to be that we do something for about 40 seconds. And immediately we have to do something else because we get bored so easily. You know, it's, I'm doing one thing and all of a sudden I'm tired of it. And so I have to switch to another thing.

And then I'm tired of it. Even, you know, pushing a child on the swing. I can, you know, you and I can do it for a couple of minutes. It's like, well, I'm going to go sit down or I'm going to go play somewhere else because I'm tired of just pushing you back and forth. And Chesterton talks about how it's so indicative of our, as adults, our dilution with life. insofar as something as simple for the child is kicking his legs is a phenomenal, a remarkable experience, a fun experience that he can enjoy over and over and over again. Whereas adults, we've lived now for such a period of time, we've lived for such a length of time that it's almost like we're bored with life. And it's, you know, we have to try and find new experiences to make it more enjoyable and crave more adrenaline and engage in other activities that perhaps we wouldn't normally.

do to try and make life exciting again. And so what Chesterton does is he ends up comparing the child actually to the infinite God where he's like, he goes, you know, the child can kick his legs forever for an hour or two or hours or three hours or four hours. And you and I can't because we get bored. But what he's like, when you look at it in comparison with God, it's like maybe God remakes a daffodil every morning or maybe he tells the sun to rise every morning and he tells the moon to rise every night. And he never gets bored of it. He just does it again and again and again because he has such a vitality and such a love for life itself because he is life itself, that something which to you and I would seem mundane and boring is actually this great expression of life.

And so I think with children, yeah, there's a lot more wisdom in children than adults give them credit for. And so when, of course, it's always enjoyable to listen to them talk. But when they do, when they give answers out of the blue, or they say something that's naturally profound, even though they haven't thought about it like a philosopher, I think it's a great revelation for a good many or a great number of adults. I know even my mom used to direct Bible camp for years and years, 15 years, and my grandpa did it before her and so on. And we'd work at camp every summer for eight weeks a summer.

And just by spending time with children, they would say the most profound things out of nowhere, out of the blue. And it caught you by surprise because, you know, here you are as an adult thinking that you're, schooled and trained. And then here's this child who's five or seven or eight years old who said something far more profound than something, you know, that, that, and simple, something far more simple and profound than what you could comprehend. So I think you're exactly correct. It's very interesting. You know, I, um, you know, when I, when you talk about adults, I just think we've been billed and some people catch on to this really early on.

Some people understand it and some of us never understand it and you just and I'm not saying I do Yep, but you're kind of billed you got to work this job. Yeah, yeah, you live for the weekend. Yeah, and then you regret coming back to work Monday and you repeat and it's it's kind of like the following of the sun. Yes. But it takes a week. You know, the invention of time like here it is. Yeah. Here's what your life is going to be in you. And you know, I've told this story I think once or twice. When I came back from hockey, I was just in a rut. I was working the oil field. I just didn't know what to do.

You know, I talk about this lots that as a hockey player, when you play hockey, you have one goal. It's the NHL, but for 99.9% of hockey players, you never get there, but you can still play it for a long time. But when you come home and they tell you, okay, you're done, you can do anything you want. It's like, that's almost overwhelming. So you're doing this job in the oil field.

You know, you're living for the weekend, and you're making some money, and there's nothing wrong with life. Honestly, from the other side, there's nothing wrong. Yeah. Except there is something wrong, right, right? And then I got a career coach or a life coacher. I think it was a career coach.

And, you know, just to do some things and see where you want to do and see, just talk about it because I don't know if I'd ever talked about it before, you know? Yep. Yep. And the first thing she asked me, I think we worked together for about a year. What do you want? And I said, I want. As much money as I can handle.

I want weekends off. I want to actually work like three days a week. I'm not even sure I want to work you know and I've left off these things sure I still haven't I look at it I'm like that's the most hilarious thing you know the first job I ever applied for while working with her was for the Saskatchewan Rough Riders I thought it'd be so cool yeah and then she's like but but let's look at what you wanted I'm like yeah and she goes and look at the rough riders look when you'll have to work yeah evenings you're going to work so much blah I'm like oh but it looks exciting and like I think I would be enjoyable in there yeah she's like okay so

then let's take this junk yeah it's rolled out the door because you don't obviously care about it because that's not what you picked yeah and I'm like oh that's what I'm I think I wanted to think I wanted yeah right because the idea is work the week yeah weekends off make an office so you got a boat and a camper and all these things and that's just a I don't know who maybe you you have thoughts on who bills that right but society that's what here in the in probably the Western world that's what we all do yes and I'm not saying it's not a good life people make great lives out but I mean you know your father was a teacher

I'm sure he loved working with kids and seeing them grow and leave. My wife's a teacher. And the first time I ever coached hockey, I came home one day and I'm like, you'll never believe this. Like this kid is actually getting better at skating. It's like happening before my eyes. She's like, well, why do you think I like teaching? I'm like, you mean that's what happens every day? Yeah.

I just hadn't even thought that thought. I didn't even, you know, anyways. Yeah. No, I think you're right. Like my, okay, so my main objective in life, my only real goal is to serve Jesus Christ. That's it. That's my foundational objective. Okay, but on top of that, if I have one goal, if I do have one goal right now, which is no matter what job I work,

whether it's from the outside, the most mundane thing in the world or not, is to enjoy it and just to enjoy life. I think that's so lost in our society. You know, we live in a world, especially in the West here, where you can, like you said, basically get almost anything you want. if you, you know, if you can wait a little while and so on, you can, well, our entertainment's instantaneous, our access to knowledge is instantaneous, our choice of food is instantaneous. All of these things we can acquire in a moment's notice, and it's led to this, yeah, I would call it a boredom insofar as men just become so bored of life so quickly. And so every day I try, when I get up, I try and strive to enjoy the day and the life I've been given no matter what.

And so it might be that, well, Jesus was a carpenter. And so every day I imagine he got up until he was 30 and made chairs. Or who knows what he made, something simple, something that you and I might consider to be mundane. Mundane. And just kind of a drudgery week where it's just you just take a file, take a chisel, do the same thing day after day. And to most men, that becomes boring. But I think if you can enjoy something so simple as that, if you can enjoy monotony, I think you're stronger, I know you're stronger than, like you said, 99.9% of men and women in the world.

The man who can enjoy monotony, the man who genuinely enjoys doing the same thing day after day after day after day, I mean, he's got, his heart is like iron. That man is a fortress. And I'm not saying that you have to automatically like it. Like I'm convinced that you have to work to be thankful for those things and to enjoy those things. Some days it really is a slog to get out of bed and do the same thing you did yesterday and the day before. But if you can simply, yeah, be thankful for it and be happy for it, man, you are building a soldier. That's a soldier.

That's a man or a woman who's indestructible. Yeah. That's a thought. Yeah. Because no day in my brain is mundane. Right. No day is the same. Even if you work the same job, every day is an adventure.

You know, like, honestly, one of the coolest things about what I get to do these days is I get to meet new people all the time. I get to have these conversations all the time. So I've created, you know, Sean likes it a good adventure. I don't know of many people who don't. Now, in saying that, some people like a little more safe, you know, like it can be an adventure just with their kids, right? Or their kids.

but Sean loves a good let's go see where this goes and so it happens all the time but I step out my front door and I feel a little bit like Bilbo Baggins you know you just never know where your feet are going to lead you and I would take one more step you don't know what person is going to come across your path

and change your entire day and if you look at that every day becomes like yeah like a little hokey but at the same time you know think about our interactions in the last we met the first time I was thinking about this today in the bell phone start in the mall.

That's right. You introduced yourself. You're with APP. You shook my hand. You gave me a card. And the truth of the matter was, I was just like, this seems to be happening a lot. I don't know what's happening with the podcast, but people are giving me the cards. They're saying, hey, we should talk, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We might have met in Eminton again. I can't remember if we cross past there. And then I saw you at the archerchurch talk. And I was like, that's the same guy. I was like, oh, that's, it's like, I used the word weird. Weird can be used as a very good word. Yeah. Like, strange in a good sense, like a coincidence.

Yeah. It can also be used in the complete opposite of very bad. Like, that was strange, and I'd want nothing to do with it. Yeah. Anyways. And then I could ask to come to Wainwright, and I sit and listen to you, and I'm like, okay, this is, this is enough of this. He's, he's, you've been in front of me now like four or five times of knocking at the door. Can I, you know, it's like, okay, let's just do this.

and see where it goes. So I'm curious. I'm going to throw an absolute curveball at you because you're a man of faith, right? Yeah. At a young age, in my opinion, to be like, this is what I believe. But yet you do it in such a way

that you have me intrigued. Okay? Yeah. I have been hearing since I came back from Ottawa. Yep. Spiritual warfare. It's out there. It's everywhere.

It's attacking you. Yeah. In my case, Sean, you're doing something that people don't like. And I'm like, well, who, like, you know, like okay yeah strange things happen blah blah blah blah and everybody goes goes and I'm licking it up is one spiritual warfare Sean I'm like what does that mean yeah like what does that mean I'm curious what is it a good question well I think first of all I think those who are telling you that this is spiritual

warfare they're exactly correct so you can go all the way back to Genesis and basically the story of the scripture is this you have an infinite god who's existed for eternity past. There is no beginning. He's an infinite being. He's outside of time. And he exists as a Trinity. So we know Him as God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Son, who everyone knows, and the Holy Spirit. Now, I can't say one day because God exists out of time, but at some point, even then, you assume time, but for our purposes it'll work. God says, let there be light and he creates everything. This is what it says in not only Genesis, but in the first chapter of John, and John chapter 1, verses 1 to 5.

So that includes not only you and I's individuals and the world and the universe and the stars and all of these, all creation, but also it includes spiritual beings as well. Now, the story of the scripture is that one of the beings that God creates is this being named Lucifer. Lucifer is this most beautiful, glorious heavenly being. One day he becomes prideful. one day he rebels against the Lord and as a consequence of his sin he's cast out of heaven along with a third of the angels and now the two I don't want to say are locked in war even though they are because at the cross

Christ defeats Satan and his army but at any rate you have now this dichotomy of Christ God etc and on the opposite side Satan and you know Lucifer made Satan and the demons, these spiritual beings who are fallen from heaven, who are void of good. Now, that's not to say the two are equal. That's not to say God is equal to Satan and Christ is equal with his demons, etc. No, God is supreme, Christ is supreme, the Holy Spirit's supreme, and there is no contest, so to say. That victory, that battle has been won at the cross. But at any rate, you now have this spiritual warfare where Satan and his army and his demons hate the Lord. And The Lord is truth.

Christ is truth. And so whenever you speak truth in any capacity, whenever you say something which is happening as it actually is, the enemies of Christ will be furious at that. And so they engage in this spiritual warfare. That's what, at least on the surface, spiritual warfare is. Okay, then I'll rephrase it in a different way. How does spiritual warfare play out then?

Ah, in multiple different ways. You can, that's an excellent question. It plays out, for example, in the form of temptation. If you look at the book of Daniel, here's Daniel, this man who's been exiled to Babylon, along with his people, Israel. And one day he's praying, and he's praying, and he's not getting an answer to his prayer, or he knows his prayer isn't being answered just yet. And so he goes on this fast where he doesn't eat choice foods. For 21 days, he continues to pray on his knees here and fast, and try and divine an answer, listen to you.

listen to an answer for his prayer. And on the 21st day eventually he gets this vision. And basically the beings in the vision say, I've been trying to get to you, Daniel, for 21 days. You know, from the moment you prayed, the Lord heard your prayer, and I was dispatched to come to you, to give you an answer to the prayer. But I was held back by what's called the Prince of Persia, this being that's opposite of me or as this powerful ruler over Persia itself. And so I couldn't get to you. We were locked in combat, me in this fallen being.

And so eventually, the angel goes, this prince, Michael, this archangel, had to come and help me out. And then I could get through and give you the answer. So it can take form in something like that. You look at Christ in the wilderness. That's an excellent example where Satan is tempting him to rely on his own

feelings and thoughts and strength instead of the Lord, it can take something in the form of doubts. You know, there's an excellent book. It's called Screw Taped Letters. It's by C.S. Lewis, the guy who wrote Narnia. And in the first chapter of the book, he talks about how, or it's a satire. The whole book's a satire. But what he does is he gives a hypothetical picture of a man who's interested in Christianity. You see, the whole book of screw tape letters, is just letters from a demon named Screw Tape to his nephew demon, Wormwood. And the whole purpose of the book is for this nephew demon, Little Wormwood, to try and drag his patient, is what C.S. Lewis calls him, this man in England down into hell.

That's the goal of the book. Well, in the first chapter, Screw Tape, the original demon, is talking about how one day there was a man in England, who was an atheist. and he was going about his business and he goes to the library. And in the library, he sees a book about Christ or about, you know, about Christianity. And he's interested. And so this demon screw tape goes, and I didn't, you know, he goes, I didn't like that. Something was bad about that. And so what I did is I insinuated in this man's mind, you know what, go have some lunch

and then come back and talk about it later or read about it later. Just have some lunch first. You're hungry and then come back and we can discuss this problem further. and the man goes, you're right, he thinks he has this thought to go have some lunch first. He does, he leaves the library. He, of course, never goes back to the library after his lunch because he just conveniently forgets about it. And then the end of the chapter goes with the end of the chapter has screw tape going and now

he's safe in our father's house below. It's very haunting and eerie because that man missed that opportunity and that was the end of it. So it could take the form of something like that, even though screw tape's not a scriptural book. It takes a lot of different forms. It's a good question. Well, what you're saying is, I think, is, you know, we think of it as, like, what I, what I picture it as is like, I don't know, something like being. I don't know, that's pretty intimidating. Yes. Yes. Don't want anything to do with that. Yes. Ah. But what you're talking about is more of, um, the game your mind can play with you.

on something that when you when you're leaning towards good your brain even though you know it's good yes we'll try and pull you to the it's almost like the angel and the devil on on the shoulder oh yes right yes should i go work out today yeah your brain knows yes but something oh but you know yes and you can know it almost gets this low voice just like nah but why we just yeah and that steers you too and now that's obviously um getting out of bed and whatever right right But what you're talking about with the Bible is something that is very similar, I would say, but more obviously on a spiritual level instead of a physical level, I think. Am I getting this?

Yes. And you can even go, well, yes, there always is. There's a push and pull. And that goes back to something as early as Eden. God says Eve and Adam, don't eat that fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And they know the command, but then all of a sudden here comes the serpent. And he says, did God really say? And in Eve's mind and in Adam's mind, they have this back and forth about, did God really say?

Of course he said. I mean, so clear is clear. But anyways, and they have this back and forth, and they eventually choose to capitulate to temptation and they give in. Now it's interesting that you talk about this, you know, the angel and the devil on the shoulder. We tend to think, the Western world tends to think that Satan and this army of fallen beings, of demons and so on, are scary, frightening. But when you read Paul, and I think it's 1 Corinthians 11. It's either that. It's either 1 Corinthians 114 or maybe it's 2nd Corinthians 114 or 10. One of those verses. Anyways, he says, we tend to think that Satan and his army are scary and frightening.

He says, actually, if Satan were to appear right now, you would see him as an angel of light. We tend to think that Satan is some creature who we would be so repulsed by. We wouldn't even want a thing to do with him. But it's not true. If he were to manifest here, he'd be this being that is so glorious and so gorgeous and so inviting that we couldn't keep our eyes off. him. He'd be this stunning figure that would completely entrance and encapsulate our

attention. Yeah, he'd be gorgeous. Just this stunning, beautiful creature we couldn't keep our eyes off of. It's the complete... With Christ, okay, so with Christ, mankind, when they expect the Messiah, they expect this Adonis, this

beautiful figure with chiseled jaw, brilliant mind, remarkable, demonstrable, demonstrable, oratory, etc., etc. They want the perfect specimen of a human. They want the hero. And yet here comes Christ, and he's this lowly carpenter who no one would give,

wouldn't look twice at, if not to look at him to say, you look kind of strange. He's dressed in rags, he's poor. You know, the people think that he's born out of wedlock. He lives in this, or he comes from this nobody-nothing town, this house of bread, you know, the complete opposite of what everyone else would think a Messiah is. He's the complete opposite of what the world wants in a Savior or wanted in a Savior. And so instead, if the world were to

choose its Savior, they would choose Satan. They would choose this creature that is physically, you know, an Adonis, stunning, intellectual, brilliant, charismatic, and so on. Yeah. That's so often of the way, that's so typical of how heaven works. You know, heaven is really the exact opposite in a sense of earth, where, yeah, you can think of like marriage is maybe a good example. So marriage is given to us from heaven. God says, Adam, you shall be married to Eve. You know, you two will be made for one for the other.

And it's so complete, it's the complete opposite of the way the world works. Because with the world's goods or with the world's treasures, we purchase them in order to use them, to use them for our good. We say, here, I've bought you, now you're going to do what I will. But with marriage, this treasure from heaven, it's something exactly opposite. Because we go, here, you are mine. Or I am yours, is actually more accurate. I am yours, and do with me what you will.

I'm, you know, all other goods, all other treasures we purchase to serve ourselves. But with marriage, we engage in marriage to serve the other person. It's a complete inversion of the way things work on earth. And so the same thing with Christ, where at least when he came the first time, it's the complete opposite, the complete version of what people thought he would be. I'm going to tell you something that's going to make you probably chuckle out loud. But if you had been the pastor on the stage as I was a kid, I think I would have been like, this is really interesting.

You have a way that doesn't make the book, church, religion, seem. And I'm going to use, I'm going to say offensive, but I don't mean it that way. I don't even know if I mean boring. I just unengaging. How's that? Yeah, yeah, totally. And when you talk about it, I laugh because I'm like, you know, you look around this room and you see exactly what I thought I would, and then you don't fit the bill.

I never thought I would be sitting here talking Christianity. Yeah. On episode 403, I think, 402 folks, 403, 402, I think. And I'm like, this is about, you know, when I talked early, or when we talked early about an adventure, I'm like, I tell you what, folks, this is an adventure point. But I sit here and I go like, if you go on stage, some people just have the ability. And I've stumbled into it a couple times, you know, with going to different churches and seeing how different people talk about the Bible and its teachings.

And some people just have this ability to take it and really almost make it come to life. You have a very interesting way of doing that, which I find fascinating. because I don't know how many people, and this is no offense to them, that they get on stage and they talk, and you just, you know, like, I just can't do it. Yep, yep, completely agree. And for me, it's simple. No Christ, no sermon. That's as simple as I can make it.

So, okay, so, like, shame on our churches. Our churches have completely failed, and they've become apostate. It's appalling what the churches have become. They refuse to preach from anything. except for basically the fruits of the spirit in Galatians because they're so afraid of offending anybody. And the churches have turned into this entire concert, this light show, where they think they can draw in people with emotion.

And there's no foundation. There's no meat in the actual sermon itself. It's not in depth. It's shallow. The sermons are shallow, and there's no real desire to preach the truth. Instead, churches are soft. Our churches are soft.

They refuse to stand for what's right. And they care more about growing their congregation, their membership, than they do preaching the gospel of Christ. Well, here's the thing, though. There is a ton of people right now, as it sits, today, that are hungry to hear somebody just, like, this is what it is. Yes. And you can't find that anymore.

Can't. No. I mean, I say that, but then I'm sitting here talking to it. 24-year-old, I'm going, like, holy crap, I don't even know why I bring your age into it, other than it just kind of, you know, it rather is shocking in the greatest way possible I might add. Yes. And that's, again, I would say it's so, um, what's so typical of the age we live in. See, Paul prophesies, he says, near the end of the days, you'll have an apostate church where they'll fall away from their love of Christ and instead they'll, you know, want concerts. Spurgeon has this great quote quote where he's like, oh, if I can remember it. He says in the end days, Instead of shepherds leading the sheep, you'll have clowns on the pulpit leading the goats. And that's exactly what's happened today. It's exactly what's happened. I put the full, it's true, I put the full blame for this on the pastoral ship, on the leadership of the church.

Well, it's leadership as a whole. I remember asking my uncle Bob, and he's an interesting man, traveled to a hundred and, geez, what, does this, probably listening? I'm blanking now. Is it 170 countries? It's a lot. Wow. And I was a younger guy when I asked him this. This is probably seven years ago now.

So it's probably about 30, you know? When I had up until that point, just had our first kid not paying attention to politics, just starting to dabble, definitely not doing this all the time. And I said, what is wrong with our world leaders? And I was talking about our politicians. And he said, lack of vision. And that has sunk in my brain. And is, well, seven years later, I'm still thinking about it.

Like, where is the vision of where we're going? Yeah. Like, you, everyone, I just keep giving Wiley Cowell. Like, I feel like we are already off the cliff. At some point, you realize, you look down, you're like, ah, crap, you know, except we're not a cartoon character. We don't just fall on smack and get back up and chase the roadrunner again. Like, this is going to hurt. People are going to get hurt.

Yeah. And yet, this is where we're going. And I'm like, what does it come back to? And I think of that, he was just so genuine when he said it. He just like, lack of vision. Yeah. We have no vision of where we're going. He's exactly correct.

I completely agree with you. Okay, so as a Christian, and I think, actually, this goes beyond Christianity. I think even the ancients, not I think, the ancients understood this too. But as a Christian, I believe in an objective standard. I believe in a standard of right and wrong. Lewis uses this very famous quote,

or this very famous analogy, where he's like, you can't know if a ruler is crooked unless you know, or you can't know if a line is crooked, unless you have some foundation of what a straight line is. You can't call a line crooked unless you know what a straight line is. I think it's brilliant. In the same way, you can't know what right and wrong is or are unless you have an objective standard.

And that goes for goals and visions as well. So my objective standard is Jesus Christ. I judge everything against Christ and what he says. And when it comes to having something to achieve something, some objective that I'm trying to pursue, I look at Christ. Not that I can be perfect, that's by grace, but at any rate, the way Christ is, the way he acts, his righteousness, his love, his justice, his peace, etc. That's my standard that I am being sanctified towards. That's what I'm working towards. Again, even though the gospel isn't by works. Okay, so we have an objective standard.

Now, you and I live in a progressive world, full of progressive individuals and full of people who completely reject the notion of objective standards. They hate the idea of an objective standard because an objective standard itself doesn't progress. It's stagnant. It's stable. It doesn't move. Right. In that capacity, you could say it's conservative because it stands steady and strong. But in this world of progressivism, progressives themselves hate that idea because, again, it's not progressing.

It's not moving anywhere. And so they decide to completely destroy the idea of objective standards. And instead they say, well, just do what? right in your own eyes, do whatever you want. They basically become anarchists. It's like the end of the book of judges when the Israelites do whatever they want in their own eyes. They do what they believe is right according to their own thoughts and perceptions, and that's the way they want to live. Okay, but that whole ideology really eats itself alive because the very idea of progressivism assumes a standard of progressivism. It's like your ideal of progress of continuously progressing

towards something new, something different, is itself a standard? Is itself an objective standard? So you can say, I'm a progressive. I don't believe in objective standards. I believe in doing whatever I want. But it's like, that itself is the standard. That is the standard which doesn't progress. And so your ideology is like a snake that's eating its own tail. It just, it consumes itself. And so when your uncle says the problem with leadership today is no one has a vision. Instead, it's like they're progressive. He's exactly correct because no one has an actual objective standard that they're trying to move towards. And so they just start progressing because it's a progressive thing to do.

Like, do you think that it's coincidental that our leaders basically worship climate change? No, because if you worship climate change, you can do whatever you want as a leader in the name of climate change because the climate is always changing. You're never going to reach the end. You'll never fix climate change because it's a fluid target. And so it allows you to do whatever you want for as long as you want

because it's not steady and stable. And so you could compare the world almost to like a horse. Okay, so you have a team of horses pulling a two-bottom plow. And if you hitch up those horses in the same direction, they pull straight. And they pull that plow steady. and strong. But if you hook up or hitch up one horse facing north and one horse facing south and say pull,

then that plow will get nowhere because they're pulling in different directions. They're struggling and they're, you know, they're spinning out in the mud in the dirt. And as a consequence, they don't move at all. And so with progressivism, the same thing where you can say we have one objective, but then tomorrow, Trudeau or whoever it is has a new objective. And then day three, they have a different objective and so they never get anywhere because they're always pulling in different directions and it just drags society down into something that is undesirable. Do you, do you read any of Jordan Peterson? I read actually most of his online stuff. I haven't read 12 rules for life. I haven't read maps of meaning. Of course I've listened to him, but. And what do you think of Jordan Peterson?

Because the reason, you know, when you say you aim for Jesus Christ, it's, it. It's, And you're like, but I'm not perfect. Yes, of course. None of us are. But the way Jordan Peterson would, I think, change that would be you aim for the highest good. Well, Jesus Christ, pretty much the highest good you can get, right? I don't think anyone of any walk of life can really argue with that statement. It's like, no, boom, that's okay.

So if you aim for that and all walks of your life, your life will get better. And over time, you will become somebody completely. different because you're aiming not to not aiming low your eyes are up right you're like aiming that's Jordan Piers anyways when I right when I hear but I found this interesting it's not a break because Jordan Biederson won't go I believe in Jesus Christ and boom boom boom he looks at it from a very I don't know is it a it's not scientific what's the word I'm looking for here um like it is a book of old stories that they're old myths right and Christians, in my opinion, and I come from a Christian family, they get, um, tail feathers,

like, whoa, George. And then I argue with them. Yeah. But listen, Jordan Peterson has brought a ton of us back. Think about that. Right. Even if he didn't realize what he was doing. The fact that I can say the word Jesus Christ on my podcast and not get uncomfortable about that is a wild statement in its.

because a while ago I don't think I would have said that sure and a large part of that has to do from reading 12 rules to life and being like I'd never thought about it before right and and it's not even I hadn't thought about it I'd read it and it never sunk in and the way he just talks about it all of a sudden to see in it's a bit people reading the Bible again oh an insane amount yeah it's exciting yes so Jordan Peterson yes well so with first with your comment with regards that Christ is the highest good, I would go farther. I'd say Christ is the good. There's that old youth of pro dilemma that seems to trip up so many college students. But it's really not a dilemma at

all. The simple fact is Christ is the manifestation of good itself. He is good, not just the highest good. He is good. He is the good. That's who he is. So now with regards to Peterson, I think Jordan Peterson lives by the law. And as Christians, I don't, or we don't live by the law. There's a difference. There's a difference between trying to do good works to get to the Lord Jesus Christ and to be like him and grace. So the message of salvation is this. The message of the gospel is this. You and I are descendants of Adam and Eve. As a consequence, we're sinful.

We're sinful human beings. That's what Paul says in Romans. We're sinful individuals, which simply means we're separated from God. That's what sin is. It's to be absent of the Lord, to be absent of good. And the consequence, the wages of sin in that so famous Romans verse, is death. That's why we die is because we're sinful. Okay, so then one day back in at Sinai, God gives the law this great, massive, all-encompassing law.

And it has 613 rules and regulations. Now it's for the Israelites, of course. But there are certain other laws that apply to us, like the Ten Commandments. He gives us this great law, these lists, this list of rules and principles. procedures that tell the Israelites how to live. Now the Israelites, and so many of us today, believe that if we can keep those laws, if we can keep those rules, don't cheat, don't lie, don't steal, don't murder, et cetera, et cetera, then we become progressively better. We become progressively good. If only we keep the law well enough, then we'll be saved. And that seems to be

the fallen diabolical gospel of all the ages, let alone our modern age. And so the Israelites for some time believe that. They kept the law as best they could, and they still believe it now, and so do so many people today. They kept the law as best they could. They try and do their best in life, and hopefully at the end of everything, when they get to heaven, the scales balance out, and they're more good than bad, and the Lord lets them into heaven. But then here comes Jesus, and he says, no, no, it's not like that at all. It's that you're a fallen individual, and you need to be saved by grace.

You need to be saved by belief. And that's said in the Old Testament too. It's not just in the New Testament. The Old Testament says that repeatedly, but people choose to ignore it. At any rate, Christ says, no, the story of salvation of righteousness, of redemption is not one of works. That's what Paul says in Ephesians 2, 1 to 10. It's a story of grace. It's a story of, here I am, and I'm going to be perfect on your behalf.

I'm going to live a perfect life. and then I'm going to offer myself as a sacrifice for your sins because the wages of sin is death. I'm offering myself on your behalf. I'm a proxy. I'm your atonement. And if you believe in that, if you believe in me that I've done all of these things that I say and if you believe that you need me for salvation, then you will be saved. So once you do so, once you believe in Christ for salvation, your soul and my soul is cleansed,

it's purified. And so in an essence, in a sense, I actually am perfect. And it sounds arrogant to say, of course I still make mistakes. Of course I'm still a sinner. But in the eyes of the Lord, my sin is washed. It's covered by Christ. It's like Isaiah 118 where he's like, your sins are like crimson, but I'll make them white as snow. And so because of that righteousness, I am in the eyes of God perfect.

And so now as a consequence of that, I work my hardest to try and be righteous, to act righteously, not because I want to be saved, but because I already am saved. It's, again, a complete reversal, a complete inversion of how the world thinks and how the world works. The world says, do good things and you'll be good. The Christian says, the Lord has saved me, I am good, so even though I'm a wretched sinner, I've been made righteous in the eyes of Christ, and so I will do good things. It's a complete inversion. You still, the Christian still needs to do the other side, though. Yes. Oh, of course. Now, but again, those works are not, this is a conversation in James. And actually, Romans 6, okay, so that's maybe the better example. So in Romans 6, Paul is dealing with

the Jews who have returned to Rome. And he says, okay, I've been hearing, he's brilliant, that book of Romans, everyone should be Romans. It's such a brilliant book. But in Romans six, he goes, I've been hearing this idea from some of you, that because you're saved, now you can do whatever you want. Now that you're saved by Christ, by grace, as, you know, according to my, according to the teachings of Christ and the apostles and so on, because you're saved and you're saved once forever, you can do whatever you want now. You can sin, you can engage in licidiousness, you can do all these evil things. And Paul's like, what are you talking about? He's like that old self, that old person who was bad, who was sinful, he's died. That's the purpose of baptism. It's to demonstrate that. He's

He's gone. Christ has annihilated that old man who did bad things and who was separated from the Lord. So why, he goes, would you engage in those old evil things that once you used to do? Once you were a slave to those sinful things, once you couldn't control your emotions and your temper and you're lying and you're stealing. And so he goes, why would you return to that old life? Because that man is dead. He's like, no, instead you're a new creation in Christ. You're this new creature who's been saved by Jesus. and God, and this is now Ephesians 2, 8 to 10, has created for you good works that are supposed to be done in Christ Jesus. So don't waste that.

Don't revert to the old way of life. Instead live as the new creation, which you act or who you actually are because you've been saved by so perfect of faith or by so perfect to salvation. Yeah. So that's a good question because you hear it often. Can I do bad things now that I'm saved?

And it's like, well, yes, you've been saved by grace, but why would you? I'm going to try and ask you something that is going to be really hard to get to formulate. So here we go. Let's try this. Okay? For some reason, I hear what you're saying. And I'm not there yet. Okay?

So I'm walking. I have to assume Jesus at some point, and I could be wrong, because you can rattle off the Bible like nobody I've ever seen, which is cool. So you can tell me if I'm completely out to long. or not at some point as he walks yeah to his you know and he's doing the mundane things he's walking through life yeah things probably just fall into place that's what I call it that's probably not the right way to say it where he's just like I get it and maybe Jesus is the wrong one maybe it's one of his apostles maybe because one of the things I look at Jordan Peterson as I go like a man that stands for so much good mm-hmm

and is interpreting the Bible so that people can come into it. Yes. Is good in my books. I can't even begin to say how much good he's put into the world. Yes. But any one man, other than probably Jesus Christ, is infallible. Meaning if you put your faith in any one person to tell you exactly how it is, including Dan or including John, you're probably going down the wrong path.

Because that is a day, as you would say, I think as all Christian, I would say, that's why you put your faith in Jesus Christ. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because that is. Yes. Right.

Absolutely. But if Jordan Peterson finds Jesus Christ at 70, instead of, I don't know what he is right now, 58. Sure. Right. Shouldn't we applaud his journey to that? Because everybody wants to say he needs to say it now. Right.

But if he's not ready, then it's a lie. Right. Oh, yes. Oh, if you don't believe it, don't say it. That's why, you know, speeches. That's why Paul says, call out on the name of the Lord and you'll be saved. The reason he talks about speech, the reason Paul talks about speech is because speech is the manifestation of thought. Whatever you're thinking, you speak.

That's the way you communicate what you believe to be reality. And so for Paul to say, for an individual to say, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, is manifesting what he believes to be true in his mind. So for that same reason. So what Jordan Peterson taught a lot of us, okay? Yes. Okay. This is why I appreciate what he has done so much.

Without Jordan Peterson, I think 98% of the population gets vaccinated. I am not even lying to you. To me, the reason a whole portion of the population stands on its values is because he's one of the initial people, and it's probably in so many old books. It's not even funny, but he's like, you start lying to yourself. Yeah. You're going, like, you're in hell. Yeah. Because you no longer, you have to speak truth.

Doing that is very, very difficult. Yes. I mean, we just lived it. Yes. I mean, that's exactly what just happened. Yeah. And so, if you can't say, I believe in X, then don't say it. Yep.

And yet everybody, not everybody, but people really want you to. Yep. And you're like, yeah, but I don't, but I'm not there. Yep. Just not there. Yep. And if Jordan Peterson isn't there. Right.

Look at what he's doing. Right. And just encourage. because he will eventually like he keeps walking that line it's going to keep hitting no different than the things that are going on in my life and I'm sure a whole bunch of other people's lives it's hard to not just it's like Tanner I'll give it to the simplest example I hope I can give you coming across my path as many times you did it's like well I mean I either bring you on right or I'm starting to not lie to

myself it's like seeing what's right there in front of me talented guy sitting in my own neighborhood that, you know, I think we can have a little interesting dialogue on something that is very difficult to understand in my life. Yes, yes. But we need to encourage one another. I don't know. I hope that makes sense. No, I know exactly what you mean.

So with your first comment that if suppose Peterson accepts Christ at 70, should we applaud his journey for getting there? And I would applaud his desire to seek truth. I firmly believe that if you seek truth as you're seeking truth, you will end up at Christ because Christ is truth. That's the, he's the, he is truth itself. That's his, that's John 146. I am the way, the truth and the life. You know, I've heard many wise individuals. I've heard Jordan Peterson. I've heard all of these brilliant scholars say many profound things, but not one of them has said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. It's something so radical, so unique,

so, what's the word, so outlandish, so insane for anyone else to say that no one, has ever dared to say it except for Christ, I am the truth. Now, in John 635 to 40, Christ talks about salvation. And he goes, well, whoever the father gives to me will come to me. And whoever comes to me, I won't ever drive away. And he talks about how, you know, if you're hungry, I'll give you a food that will make you never hunger again. And if you're thirsty, I'll give you the water of life. So you'll never be thirsty again. But what he says in that passage and what also Paul says, and again, in Ephesians 2, 1 to 6, is that salvation, is by the grace of God, not by the works of man, so that none can boast, say Paul.

What he means by that is, if you're saved, it's not because of what you've done. It's because of the grace of God. It's because of his perfect gift. And nothing else. No individual work, no specific good work, no matter how good it might seem to you and I. it's purely by the grace of the Lord that man is saved. So with Peterson, you're right, we should encourage him. Again, if he doesn't believe it, then he has no right, and he would agree with this, and I agree with myself, to say that I believe in Christ,

just as I don't believe in Muhammad or Allah, so I don't say I believe in Muhammad or Allah. Until you actually believe something, don't speak it. Don't capitulate to people wanting you to say something that you don't actually believe. Yeah, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. Because, again, it's not like God's a fool.

It's not like a man can say, I believe in Christ, and then not really believe it and expect to be saved. No, it's not that. It's not legalistic like that. It's, what is the whole scripture is all about the heart? What does the heart believe? What does it say? Well, I enjoyed this.

I did a little, I call it creeping. I creeped on your website. I did a little reading, you know. I guess that's journalism, folks. I don't know. I enjoyed this. one. This was Ecclesiastes, and nothing satisfies the longing of the spirit but God, but themselves isolated from the divinity, wisdom, intellect, and riches will never satisfy the soul. Yep. That's a deep

thought. Yes. Yes. I think it's exactly correct. Man has looked for meaning and everything in this world. He's found none of it. He can mask it for a little while. Um, but it's never given him a satisfactory Act Re-Soul. Even now, okay, so obviously we're in a political era and we're nearing an election, at least in our province. And it may be federally too, we'll see. But it's the same thing where you always see all of these men and women put their faith in an individual in parliament in the legislature as a leader, in a party. And it comes to nothing. It never satisfies. Well, this is why, and now the listeners can have a chuckle. Because they, you know, there's a group women who listen who have a bet on what i'm going to bring up a book club and everything else and

here it is okay my my my my look at this is you know the answer isn't overnight the answer although waynwright did teach me one thing yes i couldn't believe okay wait a second i'm going to pin wainwright for one second in my brain you need to have a vision of where you're going right which means in order to have that vision you got to argue and talk and deal with people and and do exactly what we're doing. Because I don't understand things without talking it out and like trying to grasp and grapple with really complex thoughts. Right.

You didn't come to, well, maybe I'm wrong on this. When I listen to your background, you've been reading and grappling with this for pretty much your entire life. For a lot of people they haven't. And think about it. It's been pulled, you know, even the slightest understanding of it in school has been pulled out.

Yes. So then how would you ever know until you're right? Right. Yes. So people need to understand. I'm not sitting here saying, start a book club and read the Bible. I'm saying, I mean, at the end of the day, what you'll probably come to is it's a pretty powerful book. Yes.

And there's a lot of wisdom in it. Yes. So I come back to you want to get out of where we're at. Right. There will be never one individual unless. Unless it's Christ. Right. Right.

That's exactly what I'm saying. So as people, I can't believe I just. I just said that. Yeah. Like, where am I going here, Sean? As people, you want to influence society. Yeah. You have to start working on yourself and your community and helping to direct where that vision is going to go.

Yes. That's, okay, so that's what I so appreciate about Jordan Peterson's clean your room. Because I think it's just, I think the actual foundation of that teaching is Christ at the temple. Okay, so Christ comes into Jerusalem just before he's going to die at the cross. and he goes to the temple, his father's house. And here are, it's a very, of course, a famous story. Here are all these money changers and these Pharisees who are selling sacrifices in the temple at exorbitant rates.

Basically what they said was, okay, you'd have a poor individual, say I was poor. And I would bring a poor sacrifice into the temple to be an outward atonement for my sins. It's why they had to do it over and over again, because it was never a complete and final sacrifice. But at any rate, I'd bring this poor offering, and the Pharisees there, the money changers at the temple would go, oh, no, no, it simply isn't sufficient for the Lord. Here, I have something instead, but I'm going to have to charge you, and they, you know, they would rip off the individuals coming to the temple who are already poor. And so Christ sees this when he walks into the temple, and he is furious. Like he makes a whip to turn over temple tables and completely drive out these thieves.

And what I was just reading it the other day, what struck me was the idea that if you want to help the world, you have to start with your own house. You have to cleanse your own house first. Now, of course, Christ's soul was always clean. But in order for him to die on the cross, that temple had to be cleansed because that temple had to be clean, you know, and it was a demonstration that you see, says Christ, not only my spirit in order because I'm perfect, I'm God, but also the temple itself is clean. And now I can go out and be the atoning sacrifice for the world.

Well, I think, for me, the Hobbit, at the end of the Hobbit, or sorry, Lord of the Rings, everybody thinks at the end of the Lord of the Rings, they drop it in the volcano and it's over. Because that's the way the movies even play out. But the book has a final like two chapters. And what happens then? They come back to their home. and the orcs have taken over.

And they have to fight them. They have to go to war with their, they have to clean up their area. You know, here in our area, you know, we got some weird stuff going on, just like everywhere. We were in Wainwright, and I've been, it's funny, I don't know why,

I didn't even have it in my notes, you know, like that's, I'm glad some things clicked. Wainwright is the first time I've ever been in a town hall where I've been interrelated, interacting where I got to a point I had zero questions left. Yeah. And you know why that is? Because I think we actually got to the answer. Yeah. I was just as shocked, I think, as anyone else. And for the listener, we were talking about the bylaws. Everybody knows about Thorhill, but I didn't know a whole lot. That's why I was

interested to come. I was like, yeah, I've been hearing lots about this and yeah, certainly Sean's going a hundred miles an hour trying to this, that, and everything, right? Like let's and so, you know, between Matt and Kathy, they laid out the framework. And then you had this lovely speech right after. And when we all got on stage, you know, it's like get organized. Understand the problem. And go and active, but go speak to it and hold them accountable. And do not stop until it is done with.

You do those three things. That's what Thorhill did. That's what Kathy was talking about with Lamont. And all of a sudden you're like this can all be open not you know any problem that comes that you don't want It can be over yep like done yep It's exactly right that's they did it in in in Vermilion River too We had a meeting two weeks ago, where the town hall was full of individuals who wanted to know what's going on with the bylaws And it was overwhelming. I would say isn't that insane? Yeah, I mean in the best possible way

That you know I mean that you can get you know in Wayne right we had what hundred or and 25 people, something like that. But for a little hall on an impromptu thing, people walking in to talk about bylaws. I'm telling you, folks, that is not an entertaining topic, except for when you understand what the problem is and what they're trying to do with it, you're like, so they're going to tell a farmer

how many cows they can have. Yep. Like, every farmer needs to hear that and understand that. Yep. Oh, absolutely. It's a demonstrable demonstration of, just what a Hydra government's become. They have the audacity to tell a farmer how many cows you can have,

he can have on his land. Or chickens? Or chickens or pigs. They have the audacity to say you have to get a permit to put up a barbed wire fence around your quarter section. Really? Really. It's unbelievable.

It's like, it's so typical, you know, it's, I compared it to the Pharisees. It's so typical of the legalism of the Pharisees. They're so concerned about the outside laws, about the little, the Pharisees were so concerned about how their robes were adjusted and how they looked with their hats and so on and how they offered public prayers, that they took no notice of the beggar who was impoverished outside the temple. In the same way, government is so concerned about these little laws, how many cows do you have on your land, how many chickens do you have on your acreage, how many pigs are you raising, that they have no time to consider that maybe we have a crime problem,

or maybe there are families who are seriously suffering because of high taxation and inflation and interest rates, et cetera, et cetera. That stuff takes a backseat to trying to micromanage your life. Not to mention the rise and acceptance of like pedophilia and things like that where you're just like, what are we doing? Absolutely. It's insane. It's totally insane.

And now, okay, so there's a problem with when a government, for example, goes insane, you can't reason with them because in their own, you know, people, tend to think that the insane man is irrational. No, no, he's not. He's the opposite. He's perfectly rational. He's super rational. He can rationalize everything and anything. He can, and you know it to be true because you've tried to argue once in a while with an irrational, with an insane man. He'll take the most convoluted path to justify his belief. You and I know doesn't make any sense at all, but he has this ability to connect things which really aren't connectable in any capacity in order to make his belief work. And I'm using air quotes around that in order to make it seem at least

kind of reasonable. And so you can't argue with such a man. Instead, you have to give him some air. You have to let him breathe. You have to open up his mind to the rest of the world. You know what he's like? He's like an individual who's staring like right at the base of a mountain. Like he is so close to the mountain, he can only see five inches in front of his face. And so if you told or if he says, look, I'm looking at a mountain. And all he's just, he says, look, I'm looking at a mountain. And he sees is this little patch of rock and it's like you don't actually see the mountain at all. You have to back up to look at just how massive it is. And he'll go, no, no, no, it's small. It's this gray little patch of rock and there's maybe a little bit of moss that I can see. But I see the entire mountain.

And it's like, no, you don't. It's just that you're so zoomed in on one specific point that you refuse to step back and realize just how massive the entire structure is. And I think that's the way the insane man works too, where he zooms in. Okay, so the land use bylaws. They zoom in on something so small, like, I don't know, they want to do a census or something, or they want to have economic development numbers or something along those lines. And they can't stop focusing on that one specific thing. They can't zoom out and say, actually, there are people who just want to have chickens. There are people who just want to have pigs or just have cows or just put a fence around their yard

because it's their yard, and it completely passes them by. And so it's almost impossible to argue with said people. instead, and I think we're seeing this with Thorhild, with Wayne Wright, with Kid Scotty, etc. Lamont, it seems much more effective to simply walk in there, march in there and go, there is no argument here, we don't want these bylaws, whether you like it or not. You're, you know, you're a representative of the people. That's right. And the people are saying no.

That's right. You'll notice it's never, at least Thorhild and so on and Kid Scotty, it never was an argument of let's see if we can find a middle ground. No, it was, we don't want these. There is no discussion. My thing has always been, you know, when you talk about get Oregon, But know what you're talking if you know what you're talking about you can't argue with it Yep because I've well I've read it and we're not doing these things. Yes. It's kind of why I asked you know in Wayne right is there a cheat code, you know

To reference video games. Yep. You know it's like if Thor Hill has read a 400 page document and I'm exaggerating maybe a little bit but you but from what I hear it's a pretty thick yeah They try and bury it in there. Yep. It's like if it's the same book to all RMs all counties all you get it right. It's like what did they find? They found it these three things. Read these three chapters. You got it. Walk in and say no more. And then every county, all they have to do is get organized and get active because they already know the answer. And it's like, boom, you know. I think of, I've been saying this a lot, but all these little communities remind me of, instead of the Guleg archipelago, they just remind me about like the best archipelago, right? We're all sitting there. We all think we're islands, but we're all thinking of the same bloody thing. It's like, we just need a little bit of contact.

just so you can point us in the right direction, you know? Yeah. And then this can all kind of go away. I mean, we all know it's not all going away, but like that's how we can start. Right. Yes, one step at a time. It's a cliche to say that, but it's true. It's one day at a time.

What can I do today? What can I do today? Don't worry about tomorrow. Christ is like, don't worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow will have problems unto itself. Just worry about today. Let's get through the day. And then when tomorrow comes, we'll worry about tomorrow.

But for right now, what can I do today to speak truth, act truthfully, represent truth, and increase the amount of truth in the society? Yep. You're exactly right. Well, I'm curious. What are you staring at in today's landscape? You know, we've crossed a whole heap of things today. And I was giving you a rough time because I was listening to the podcast.

I'm like, 20 minutes, man. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm like, okay, you're going to keep going here or what are you going to do, you know? What's, you know, I hate to just boot you because I've been enjoying that. What are some things that are sticking out to you that you've been wrestling with? It's a good question.

I think what I've already said, I think what is the one thing, the one, the first thing that stuck out to me is just honestly the insanity of radical ideologues in the nation today. Totally insane. Totally divorced from reality. Totally.

from common sense completely insane and I mean that in every way possible what they're doing like you said the the the acceptation of pedophilia what they're trying to do in swimming pools for heaven's sakes all of these things completely well let's you know divorce from reality this the swimming the swimming pool thing is more I think about it the more angry again yep you know rightfully so so so we're gonna we're gonna do toplessness yeah okay yeah trust forward yep well why because we want everything equal okay so you know you got a group guy's going oh topless yeah and it's like well what woman do you know that's going to do that not one yeah

okay so what what group of women may do that I can I can point to one and then I go but let's just not even go to that argument for second who uses a pool yeah kids kids stop yeah full stop yeah what the hell are we doing yep oh exactly right exactly right I can tell you what Jesus would have done what he thinks about it now and I can tell you what he would have done if you were still walking the earth. He did it in the temple. You know, the problem with, this is why I think there's such a shame on the churches because they're silent on matters like these. It's like we have, the Western world and Western churches have created this false narrative that the church is supposed to be this weak sheep, this little lamb. I mean, and Christianity is so remarkable because Christ is on the

cross. I think I said this actually at Ark, and he holds out his arms. And he's able to pull two things which seems simultaneously contradictory together into one. So the church is supposed to be a lamb, true, but it's also supposed to be a lion at the same time. It's not like it's more lion than lamb or more lamb than lion. It's that it's infinitely lamb and lion. You read C.S. Lewis's essay on chivalry. And he basically says the chivalrous man is the man who is at one time meek to the endth and at the same time ferocious to the endth. Yeah, the most dangerous man on the planet who never, who never uses it. Right, precisely. He's the man who you'd want to fight beside in war and who you'd want to be ruled by in peace. That's, so, so with Christianity,

and with what's happening in the pools, Christianity is supposed to be a lamb, true, but it's supposed to be a lion. And so it's supposed to say, you know, we show a love for everyone, but at the same time when I see on righteousness and sin and sick sin like that, I think the church has an obligation to vocally and seriously charge those individuals who are promoting such filth with as much severity as they can create. They have to be ferocious like a lion and calling out nonsense like that. You know, what I think of, and I'm not, I can't rattle this quote off quite, you know, but it comes to mind.

One of the books, I said this at Brownfield, Alberta, in the middle of the lockdowns. They had a lovely, you know, they invited me in to speak, a few other people in to speak. And I was sitting there, and I'm not a, you know,

it might shock people listen to the podcast, but actually when I speak in front of a crowd, and they invite me in, I'm the complete opposite of a politician. I'm trying to format my thought into the shortest possible, just bang, that's what it is. And I don't want to waste your time.

I just want to say what's on my mind. I agree. And so I said, you know, at times like this, I think people, and this is the middle of lockdowns, I said, I think people would say you've got to quote something from the Bible, you know. And I'm like, but I'm going to make you chuckle. I'm going to quote something from Jurassic Park. And of course, everybody laughed. Yeah, of course, sure.

And that was about straight linearity. But when you talk about lamb lion, I think of a different thing. And I hope I'm remembering this correct because I haven't proof read this. But I wrote this out of the book. And he was talking about scientific. power being inherited wealth where you don't have to earn it. So this is what he said. Scientific power is a form of inherited wealth.

Most forms of power require a substantial sacrifice by those wishing to attain it. There is an apprenticeship lasting many years. Whatever it is you seek, you have to put in the time, the practice, the effort you must give up. Allot to get it has to be very important to you. And once you have attained it, it is your power and it can't be given away. It resides in you. It is literally the result of your discipline.

What is interesting about this process is that by the time someone has learned to kill with their bare hands, they've matured so they will not use it unwisely. This power has a built-in control. The discipline in getting the power changes you so you won't abuse it. But scientific power is a form of inherited wealth attained without discipline. Totally agree. I know I've referenced a lot of Lewis, but people love to read his Narnia stuff, but they should really try and investigate his essays because they're actually so brilliant.

an essay, one of my favorite essays ever written, called the humanitarian theory of punishment. And it's exactly that. What he talks about is how we're living in a society, and this is back in the 40s, yeah, 40s, 50s kind of thing, we're living in a society where men are no longer tried for crimes as criminals. They no longer are punished, or at least he says it's getting to that place, where they're no longer punished by being put into prison or what might have you for their crimes. Instead, they're treated as mental patients who have to be cured. He's like, what's happening is that crime is becoming a sickness. It's becoming a disease. And so what it allows bureaucrats to do is inflict a more surgical tyranny upon said individuals, any individual, than what would otherwise be

possible? Because with a crime, you can say, okay, I'm a man with morals, I'm a man with ethics, and so I have a right to determine the jury. I have a right to determine the sentence of someone who's committed a crime, you get 10 years for stealing or what might have you. If instead, it's a disease, if instead crime is a disease, well, then instead you have to go to a group of scientists, a group of doctors, a group of white coats. They have to medicate you. They have to medicate you, and only they can decide when you're cured. Only they can decide when you're no longer sick. And so you might be sitting in a white room with white walls and a white bed for years, being injected with all sorts of, all sorts of experiments to try and cure your sickness.

Well, they thought the sickness was not wanting to be vassed. Absolutely. That's precisely the point. You got it. It's exactly right. Because now eventually right, it's, it's, um, your rights are taken away because you don't want this vaccine. How could you? It's, it's almost like you have a sickness. Actually, and those individuals who weren't vaccinated were treated as sick, even though they weren't actually sick. They could be as healthy as anything. They were treated like people who were contagious. And so they couldn't go to, you know, restaurants. They

couldn't go to this place. They couldn't travel. They couldn't do all of these things because they were treated like contagions. And so all of their rights were suspended. And you can say, well, my rights are suspended. I have rights and freedoms. I'm a human being. How could you do this? And the bureaucrats can simply say and did say, oh, this is no longer about your rights or freedoms. This is about health. It's about saving the nation. Nothing to do with your rights and freedoms. We can inflict pain, because a doctor can hurt you to try and fix you. You know, he can set your broken arm or your broken leg, which hurts a lot. But because it cures you, you're willing to endure that pain.

In the same way, it might be that you can't travel. It might be that you can't go to a restaurant. But that's just part of the process of healing, of making the nation better. And so it's a pain that we're willing to inflict upon you and one that you should be willing to endure. Yeah. And so it gives them this dystopian like power. But you know when it created in the meantime, which I don't think anyone realized. And there's a lot of people that, you know, angry, upset, blah, blah, blah.

But it's not inherited wealth having to live through that. That's like you built some thick skin and I guess is probably the first thing that comes to mind. But you had to wrestle with your brain a lot. Yes. Sitting on this, I had to wrestle with my brain a lot. Yep. And how else do you ever get that? I never want anyone to go through that ever again.

Yeah. But we went through it. Yep. Absolutely. And now you have a group of those people in society who are mastering something that is very, well, you come back to it. You take, it takes years to train that into someone and how do you do it? Yes. I don't have the answer.

Yep. Well, I mean, certainly, government goes a little bad shit. Yep. and forces it on a huge part of the population. That's one way. Yep. Absolutely. The whole, I mean, the scripture is filled with that.

The scripture says, you know, you will be put through fire so that the dross might be burned off of you and that you can come out like gold. And so it's like you don't, of course, you don't wish pain on anyone. But it seems like it took us a very short amount of time to know where people stood and what they believed. And the longer that entire event went on, the more. more people were sick and tired of the way government was acting. And it burned off their preconceptions about just how good government is or just how

benevolent government is. And, well, the term is awake, right? It opened their eyes to what was happening and what is happening with regards to our government. You know, we were saying at Wainwright, could you imagine even five or ten years ago holding an event like that? And having 25 people show up. And having 25 people show up.

And any of them being under the age of probably 60. And that's no knock on 60-year-old. No. It's just you're getting close to the age of retirement. where you start to pay attention maybe to a few things. And most of us, you know, I mean, yes. Totally unthinkable. But then here it comes, we've been, you know,

people have seen how big government is, how fast government moves, how malevolent government can be. And it's, it's invigorated their senses. And so you have, instead of 25 people coming to an event that was advertised for like three days, it was, or a week, whatever it is, you have 120 people coming with 6,000.

more watching online. You know, it's a huge difference. And so... And you had a high school kid there, which is wild. You know, and I should have got your thoughts on the event in Emmington, but there's a teenager in that audience, right? Like, I mean, and there was other kids. I should point out, there was other kids there, teenagers, young adults, and I can safely say that three years ago that wouldn't have happened. Yeah. What did you think, Emmetton? I invited you last minute because, you know, I cross paths and I was like, you know, I've been inviting all these different, between me and twos and, um, and, and, uh, East Anchor Media, we invited all these different, um, groups of people that go across a pretty diverse background. Yeah. And I, uh, I'm like, well, you know, I probably

should invite Tanner, you know, like, oh, yeah, I appreciated it. What did you think of it? You know, my favorite part of the night was, was actually, it was such a blessing to be able to, it sounds, I know it's, can you imagine that this is actually what we're saying. in this day and age, but it was such a blessing to be able to just meet and see people again who share your concerns, your thoughts, you know, your ideas, and be able to network and just talk with them for a while. You know what I mean? Like I saw people I hadn't seen in months there. I had no idea they were coming because, of course, it was kind of a last minute thing. And I was so, well, I was so blessed by that. Even the guys at Wainwright, I sat down with the guys at Wainwright.

I didn't know they were going to be there. But it was great because it gave an opportunity over supper just to talk about what was really concerning. Then we talked about economics. We talked about the financial system. What are you going to do with this and that? And so on top of the actual presentations, you just had real human interaction in a system, in a setting that was peaceful, relaxed, but also electric with a renewed hope, I would say,

and an excitement about the future, that I was so blessed by the night. That was, yeah, but I was, and I was astonished at how, I was astonished at how, how meaningful it was just to be able to see all of these people, even to see a few individuals who said, oh, I watch your show. It's like, that's a huge encouragement. Because, you know, when you're out in the wilderness, when you're out just doing, as you know, this almost this monotonous thing, it can be taxing sometimes.

You wonder if you're making a difference. You wonder if it's helping at all. But then you're able to go to events like these and meet people and go and listen and they say, like your show, I like your articles. Would you want to come and do this? Do you want to come and do that? And it was so refreshing to the soul. It's, that's cool to hear, A, you know, I'm my harshest critic.

I always go, you know, I could have done this better, could have done that better. You know, and continual improvement on something like that. But interviewed Tamara Leach, you know, and certainly if you're fall over the convoy, you know, you're huge. And I said this to her, you almost think she walks on water, right? I don't mean that literally, but very high. And if you didn't fall to bring, you think she's like the opposite. Walks on flames. Yeah.

And she, she paid me a really high compliment that I had to sit back and think about. And she said she, she fangirled over me in Ottawa. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, oh, I listen to you all the time through COVID. I was like, really? I didn't realize that. You know, like, how do you even put that into a coherent? thought you know because at times I go the heck is listen to this and actually the other thing is

is you know like I think about all we've talked about here and I think like I would never like four years ago I would have never opened up with it like this yeah if it wasn't for like five friends and even then this topic highly probable unprobable and then you know you start I don't even think about it anymore like I don't even know if we could talk about anything on here where I'm like well I'll see how it goes you know like because what's what's really going to happen right I mean I'm like I've literally you know you're asking about yeah what is what was the highest grossing episode like boom what was it and I'm saying Dr. Eric Payne the pediatrician it came out like right at the time they're saying kids can get vaccinated and I had the guy on that said don't do it yeah and uh the phone that

week yeah two weeks yeah was utter insanity yeah um and after you do so you do so you do something like that? It's just like, I don't know. Yep. Can, you know, like, is talking about Jesus. You know, like half the people I have had in here across the first 200 episodes that say, you ask, you know, if you could interview any one person, who would it be? I take Jesus Christ and it's like, well, no kidding. Like, I mean, wouldn't that be a little conversation? Wouldn't it be to just grill them, you know? Like, come on. Yeah. Come on. All right? Yeah. You really pull that off. How'd you do it? Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't that be

interesting? Just to pick a man's brain. and just hear some of the wisdom come up. Yes. And yet to say it out loud and actually talk, because open as you think of what I think we've done here is like two years ago, I wouldn't have done. I don't even know if I could have got myself to utter, like I think back the first time I were on McLean on.

And he mentioned uttered the word white privilege. And I was so like for like a week after, I was just, I was more unnerved. I didn't know how to talk about it. You know, and go back and forth. And I think this is how far we've come. Yeah. Or maybe I've come.

No, but absolutely. I totally agree with you. The difference in just how willing people are to talk about, like you said, but they wouldn't talk about two years prior, three years prior. It's astonishing to see. It's encouraging to see. But I think we have to. Have to.

Like when I sit back, I go, certainly does Sean need to be careful or Tanner for that matter? Yeah. Certain aspects of life. Yeah. I'm not saying that. but for too long we haven't talked about what matters. Yep. And the longer you talk, you realize we're getting to this point

where something is fundamentally not right. Yes. Yes. And if you can get to that point, yes. You're in this realm. Yes. You know what I'm... I know exactly what you mean.

That's the purpose of the law. The Christian believes the purpose of the law is to get you and I to a point where it says something is not right. People tend to think that the law is what saves them. Like I mentioned, good works. I think Jordan Peterson believes this too. As best I understand it or I understand him, but it's not. Paul's like the purpose of the law actually is to bring death.

It's to tell you something's not right with you. We tend to think that the law is this list of rules and regulations. I know I said that at the start, and it is on the surface. But actually, it's really not. What the law is, is it's a shadow. This is what the Hebrew says. It's a shadow of Christ. It's an outline of a picture of someone who's perfect.

It's a shadow. Well, you need light to cast a shadow. You need something real to cast a shadow. And that real being, which is casting the shadow of the law, is Christ. So the purpose of the law is to say, you Sean, me Tanner, you Jordan Peterson, you Tamara Leach, etc. are not Christ. You don't fit that definition. You've lied. You've cheated. You've stolen. You've done all of these things that are sinful or that demonstrate the manifest, that demonstrate sin within you. So you don't fit that picture. But here's someone who does here's the only person who does Jesus Christ and so something is you're right fundamentally wrong and for for me that thing which is fundamentally wrong is sin and that's why we have all of these issues in the world today yeah I know that's another inversion people think the law is a list of rules it's not it's really not it's actually a shadow it's a picture they ever bother you that you know I've some days you know You go at 18, you think you got the world by the tail, and then 25, and certainly for you, you're only 24, but this is how my brain has gone. 18, 25, 30, 35, now I'm about turned 37.

And I just know that I will never, ever get there to where I know everything. And I'm rather excited about that, you know? Like, I get to have conversations like this where I'm like, I got to go back and listen to this all just so I can digest it all over again. Yes, yes. But in saying that, I hear all this. And I go, where has this been the last 37? Well, not 37. And my mom will laugh at that, right?

I mean, she's probably, anyways. I just go, where is this been? Yeah. You know, I mentioned this to, I come all the way back to spiritual warfare. Because I don't, I don't, I understand and I don't understand all the same time. It seems very complex. Anyways. Yes.

It's almost abstract. Yes. Yeah. And he tells me a thought about, you know, and I said, why don't people talk about that? He goes, well, because they'll be crazy. And I'm like, okay, okay, sure. So then I walk away and then I meet somebody else and they bring it up. I'm like, so why don't we talk about it?

Because I'm crazy. And I go, you know what it kind of feels like? It kind of feels like COVID, where if you had these thoughts, you thought you were crazy. Yes. We're all these little tiny islands. And what I'm realizing is a whole chunk of society is all experiencing the exact same dang thing, all at the same time, wrestling with the same way. can't figure it out things are going nuts yeah nobody will talk about it because if you talk about it

you're crazy and you've gone to la la land yeah meanwhile you're like i don't they so like the more i i get to this point where i'm at i'm just like there's something going on here and i can't yes i can't i'm right here i'm right there i don't know what's next but i'm right here yeah and when i talk about it everybody around me's like yeah but you can't talk about it right you can kind of yeah you kind of like well sean folks has gone a little lulu because i mean he's He did a lot of things that during the last two years have not been society acceptable. Totally. Welcome back.

Here we are. It's like suppose you have a room with a group of people who are colorblind and you walk in and you go, that wall is purple. And they go, no, you're not. Or no, it's not. What are you nuts? It's gray. And it's like, no, that wall is purple. And you know it because you can see color and they can't.

So what if perhaps it's not so much that you're crazy as it is everyone else has. has a definition of reality which isn't true. Now, I know that sounds like an arrogant statement to say, and I'm not saying that I'm enlightened. What I am saying is that I believe Jesus Christ roved from the dead, what he said was true, the world called him crazy too, but again, his resurrection is a proof that what he said and what he believed and what he taught was true.

And so in a world that is going insane, full of progressivism, common sense will sound, Crazy. Well, I just know how societal pressure can feel. I think we all can. I heard this, or maybe I watch this story on a guy who walks into a lecture hall, right? You went to university, I went to college, we all get it. You walk in and everybody's facing the wrong way.

And you think to yourself, what are they doing? Yep. Right, am I missing out on a game, whatever? Yep. And so eventually you sit down and face the wrong way, even though you know the professor is the opposite way. I'll give you a different example. We're going through the airport. This is two weeks ago.

And to get in the security line, it's long. It's like it's zigzagged three times. But as you get closer, you can see there's two lines to the security guard. But everybody's in one. So there's an open line. And right at the point where you can go either way, there's a sign and it has an arrow saying both ways. But at some point, somebody in the front just missed it. And so everybody instead of going back and forth, just thought, oh, they must close down one line.

I'm assuming that's what they're thinking. So I watch this lady get there because I'm looking at the sign and I'm going, and she was two ways. Why aren't they walking? Like somebody just lead the way and lock. Yep. And so you, she, you can literally see her read it. Yeah. And do one of these.

Like look around at everybody. Like somebody just did not, you can go. I almost wanted to lean over and go, just go. Yeah. But I was so caught in like, is she going to go? Right. And she doesn't. Yeah.

she stays in the line sure and then about six people after her somebody looks at it and goes what the heck and just starts walking yep and then you can see her I'm falling at this point I'm watching yeah I'm curious yeah and all of a sudden they all go use the line and then she goes you like gives hands up like I knew it yeah and then you wonder if we aren't at when you talk about the colorblind thing it's it's like or we can literally just see some things yes and it's like is that actually what it is yep is it yeah ah hmm that's an excellent question. So even for the resurrection of Christ, for example, people often say, you know, well, it was a hallucination or something. Or, you know, it was a manifestation of the disciples, hopes,

and dreams, or something along those lines. And the best philosopher, in my opinion, to listen to for a refutation of that is William Lane Craig. But basically, he gives a bunch of proofs that say Christ made sure to show that his resurrection wasn't just, you know, your own mental manifestation. For example, or it wasn't just the disciples stealing the body because, one, the tomb was rolled away, which was heavy. There were guards in front, so they wouldn't have fought them. The clothes were left behind in the tomb. Well, if you were stealing a body, why would you leave the clothes behind the linen behind? How strange? And then it's not like Christ after his resurrection just went up to heaven and showed no one.

He showed not just two people. He didn't show himself just to two people or three people or five people. He showed himself to 500 plus. That's a lot of people to eventually say, actually, I don't think any of you are right. And finally, you can look at the explosion of the church after his resurrection. You can look at how it's the funniest thing. You had the strongest empire in the world, Rome. This is a quote from Gibbon.

And you had Rome try and snuff out Christianity quickly. And the Pharisees try and snuff out Christianity quickly. But Gibbon gives us a quote where he's like, while the great body of the Roman Empire was weakened by violence and was undermined by slow decay, a pure and humble religion gently insinuated itself into the minds of men and grew up in silence and obscurity and finally planted the triumphant banner of the cross

over the ruins of the capital. And so you have all of these empires come and go over thousands of years and yet one thing remains steady and constant, which is Christianity. in Christ and the truth of the gospel. And finally, as my own testimony, I can, I believe it because of what's happened in my life. You know, it's an inward working,

and this sounds abstract too, I know, but it's an inward working of the Holy Spirit as a Christian that's completely radically transformed and changed my life from an old sinner, a man who used to commit all of these sins to something entirely new, who hates sin, and who doesn't, or who works as hard just to not conform to the world because instead I serve Christ.

And so that is the question that a lot of people wrestle with. Is Christ the resurrection of Christ just a manifestation of what I want to believe or is it actually true? That's what everyone asks and has to ask. You know it's funny and you know where my brain goes? Listen to the people. Yeah. If you get to where, no matter where you travel, you run into people. Yep.

Who seem quite sane, down to earth, but have had almost identical experiences, you've got to start to one. Yeah, start to sink. You don't need to have Sony from 2,000 years ago. I mean, certainly, you do, like it doesn't hurt. Right. Right.

Like, it doesn't hurt because everybody's going to get to it in their own way. Yes. But I'm telling you, you start opening your eyes and ears to it. It's like, this is a bit. maybe odd. Yeah. And I don't know if that's the right word. Yes.

I'm curious, though, a man who has devoted his young life to the Bible. Yes. To Christianity. Yes. What do you think of or have you read other gospels or religions or have you dug into them out? Yes. Yes. And the difference between every other religion in the world and Christianity.

One is that, again, our salvation. is by grace. It's one which we don't have to work towards God to achieve or to acquire. It's one where God literally comes down to earth to us to acquire. And every other religion, I've seen all of these prophets and all of these spiritual leaders, all of these, you know, zealots say, do this to be sanctified, do this to be enlightened, do this and that and all the other thing. And never once have heard them say, come to me, you who are weary and burdened, and I'll give you rest. My yoke is easy. My burden is light. Learn for me for I'm humble and gentle and heart. Never once have I heard any of the other spiritual leaders say, I am the way the truth in the life. Never once have I heard of any other

spiritual leader being resurrected from the dead up to eternal life. You know, never once have I read about another spiritual leader who's completely broken the mold of an expected savior, who claims to be Savior and has actually accomplished all which he taught. Never once have I seen a book which is so fulfilled prophecy like the prophecies of the Bible of Scripture. It's remarkable. It's incredible.

Have you ever sat and talked to somebody who's a devote anything? Yes. Of course, in our society, it's mostly atheism and secularism. And so that's who I've engaged with most. And I would say that was most prominent at Camp, at Bible Camp, and my parents would direct. also in school and university. Was there anything, I guess, what I'm trying to search out?

Atheism, I joke about this, and I probably shouldn't joke about it. Like, once upon a time, I would say I was closer to atheism than to Christianity. Right, right. And now, well, I mean, by this time, you get it. Right. I'm like, that's for the birds. Right. I don't care what anyone has to say about that.

Right. But I am curious, you know, like, have you sat at a question? Have you sat across from somebody and been like, wow, I really appreciate how you're, because I've watched and read a bit about Gandhi. Yep, okay? Yep. Hinduism. Yep.

And at the end it says, though, but he enjoyed his interaction with Christianity. And I'm like, ooh, that's an interesting little thought. Why did they got to put that little nugget at the end? Right. And I'm wondering, have you had an interaction with somebody who, it's not even disagrees with you? Right. It just believes in something as devotely as you do where you sit and talk to him and you're like, huh, that's an interesting thought. Oh, absolutely.

Oh, yes, I enjoyed dialoguing about these things. I know I'm not a genius or the greatest at it, but I think it's so fascinating to hear, yeah, these different worldviews. I have a particular friend in Calgary or a group of friends in Calgary who are, but I don't talk to them so much anymore just as a consequence of, you know, life. and so on, who are atheists. And we had a lot of interesting conversations and discussions about the nature of good. Who is God? How could God allow bad things to happen?

Etc. And I completely sympathize with those thoughts because they're excellent questions. And other ideologies and ideas for that matter. Oh yes, it's, I mean, I do believe Christ, I mean, I believe with all my heart that Christ is the way, the truth in the life and he is the only way the truth in the life. You don't go, you don't receive salvation through Gandhi or through Muhammad or through Allah or through atheism or through any of those things except through Jesus Christ.

The door is narrow. But oh, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy discussion with other individuals who have different viewpoints about the world. Yeah, it's funny. I don't look at Gandhi as you go through him and you find. Right. But I look at him as a character on this planet that did something very few had done before. Right.

Like incredible. You can learn a lot from that story. Sure. Yep. And, but you, you, you raise some interesting points there. You know, it's, it's interesting. I, I'll be curious what happens, because this will release tomorrow. You know, like, I don't sit around on these things. Right.

So, and part of that is, is, you know, it's like, Sean can overthink himself if it turns into a week, you know. Right. Man, I shouldn't release that, you know. Yeah. Like, you saw me. I walked in and I was already, I don't know, let's, we're going to get. Yeah. There's no, there's no turning back.

It's great. It's going on. It's raw. Yeah, we're going to see what people have to say about it. Yep. Now, Christians are going to be over the moon. Right. But not our president.

Right. That's fine. That's, yeah, that's, it's, it's a funny thing where the disciples in prison, it's not, I'm not going to prison, of course. Well, who knows you. You know what? Who knows you? I know.

But at any rate, what I mean to say is, if some people don't like it, like what I'm saying. I mean, I hope they do because I want them to be saved. But if not, that's fine. because it's a demonstration that I'm, you know, you're trying to preach the gospel. The disciples were rejoiced in prison because they said we must be preaching something which people who hate the Lord don't like. I'm not saying that those audience, no, actually you want to hear a radical thought? It's not radical.

Christ says it. Either you're with him or you're against him. And if you don't love Christ and accept him to be your savior, then you hate the Lord. And I know that's heavy. That's not something a lot of people are comfortable with. And it's simply something I have to repeat from the scripture. Sure. Can you say it one more time for me? If you don't love Christ, if you don't actively believe in him to salvation, then you hate the Lord.

He says that in, oh, I think it's Luke 6. I think it's, but don't quote me on that. He talks about how you can serve one master, but not two. And he uses money as his example. He's like, either you love me and don't love money or you love money and not me. Your choice. He says, but you can't kind of half love one and love the other. You're giving me a thought.

once upon a time I had Dr. Roger Hodkinson. Yes, brilliant, man. And that man pissed off a lot of people. Yes. Did he ever? But he looked at me and he said, you know, Sean, some things you can't two step. And I was trying to be, you know, like, you know, maybe, I don't know what I was trying to do.

He was yelling at me. Like it was an intense. Yeah, it's Roger. And Roger, in fairness to you, you weren't yelling at me. You were yelling at the mic, but I was, you know, I am the listener. I'm sitting there and I'm like turning down levels and he he was like you know you can't two-step an issue and and so what did Sean do from that point on right he did about a hundred and change

episodes that never strayed from COVID yeah yep that's yeah that's and that it and you're doing you're you're you're trying to do the same thing in a lighter way what one of the things I've enjoyed about this conversation the most this is a talent and I truly mean this you've put something that I am very uncomfortable with and made it comfortable. Right. Oh, thank you. And when you talk,

I don't, you say that's a heavy burden, but I don't feel like you're like, you need to decide now. Right. And that's a talent again. Ah. Because you're giving me space to think about it.

And I don't like, well, if you've lived through the last two years and they're still sitting there, I make time and space. Right. I can't force you. Of course not.

Now, my favorite preacher is named Charles Spurgeon. He's this old Victorian preacher. Brilliant man. His sermons are just, poetry. Phenomenal preacher. They call him the Prince of Preachers. He's just this masculine man with a big beard and not too big, but just big, like yours.

And he preaches all these sermons, five or six times a week. And one of my favorite quotes that Spurgeon has, and this is again with regards to, you know, don't have to decide right now. It's like, well, of course I can't force you, but Spurgeon's quote, and it's from the scripture, he's exactly right, where he goes, at present, your heart is hanging on by a thread, and so is your eternity. and that thread is breaking. That string is breaking.

And only the heart stopping for just a moment, just the smallest moment, can send you into eternity. And in Hebrews, it's clear, the Lord says it's appointed unto man wants to die, and after this the judgment. So some faith believe there's a purgatory. Scripture doesn't teach that. Some believe you can be saved after death,

after a period of cleansing doesn't teach that. Scripture doesn't say that. And yet you have said in this, if you don't believe it, don't say it because you're lying to yourself. That's correct. So this is what bothers me about this all. Okay, I'm going to try and spit this out all over again, folks. Is in one sense, you go, well, don't say it if you don't believe it.

Correct. I agree with that. Yeah. 100% over. Yes. And in the next sense, your heart is hanging on by a thread, though. By a thread. Yeah. And so it's like, I know.

You're trying, not just you. I don't mean, yeah. You give it them. It's this push. Yes. You need to end. That is what the government. did to us for two years.

Oh, yes. And that just my tail feathers go way up. And I'm like, I can't handle that. I'm not in the mood for that. Ah, I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. So I, this is where I go back to Peterson.

You know, and so Christianity talks about Armageddon. Yep. And it talks about, you know, like, you've got to figure this out because what happens if Armageddon happens tomorrow? It's like, well, that is, in this, sounds stupid to say aloud is a risk I'm willing to take right now because I will not say something I do not fully believe in but in saying that and saying that yeah that means we should be looking into it so that instead of 10 years from now yes two years from now you understand yes

because even life will be better for most people if not all everyone I don't know how to say that if they did that right I see what you're saying yes so for me as a Christian I of course I want you to believe in Christ because I believe it's the way of salvation and so I want you to be saved. That's the core of Christianity. Paul says, and I think it's 2 Corinthians 6, the first two verses, he's like, now is the day of salvation. He's like, salvation's been laid before you. He says, we want all of you to be saved. Actually, it says that in 2 Peter 3.9, too, I think it's that, I think it's 3.9, where Peter's like, God's waiting for the second coming. He's trying to hold, he's holding back the end times, the Armageddon, because he wants all to come to

salvation and none to die in their sins. And that's what the Christian would I believe as well. Now, of course, as you mentioned, I can't, I certainly can't and have no desire to force you to do so. That's completely antithesis or the antithesis of Christianity itself. You know, if a man choose to not be saved, if he choose instead to follow a different path to believe in himself or what might have you, then not even the Lord will stop. But if he's aiming at the highest good, eventually he'll get to the crux of his argument of what he's aiming at. And therefore, not eventually. Eventually, I just feel like you're going to get to this point.

I said this, I say to everyone, start a book club. Yes. But understand when you do, what awaits you at the end is the mob. Right. That is an argument I have to wrestle with all the time because that is uncomfortable. Yep. And I don't mean that there's going to be pitchfords outside your house, but you're going to come to a point where you understand an argument and its fallacies, especially in today's world. Yep. And if you stand firm in your beliefs, the mob will come. Right. So don't go lightly into it. No. Because that's where it leads. That's right. I do not

recommend Christianity for those who want an easy life. That's the last thing I would say. Right. This isn't a walk in the park. It's not a life for men who want to be lazy and do nothing and just relax. And yet where the meaning of life is is in being lazy. Look at those individuals who are. They often hate themselves. They have no joy because they're not fulfilling their purpose. So good. Good is, here's how I would describe good itself. I think good is when a thing executed, its intended purpose. I have a microphone. I'm sitting in front of a microphone. And I say this microphone is good because its purpose is to clarify sound, to record sound, to increase the quality of the sound, et cetera. And it's doing so. And it's doing so to a high capacity, to its perfect

capacity. And so this microphone is good. Now, suppose that it wasn't doing that. Suppose it was staticky. Suppose it was cutting in and out. Suppose it was giving you a lot of temper tantrum problems, you know, then I would say this microphone isn't good because it's not executing its intended purpose as it's supposed to be doing. And so the microphone is bad. Now with Christ, I'd say the purpose of Jesus Christ, the purpose of God, the reason for his existence is himself. I am who I am, he says. I am the I am. He is the reason for good. So with regard with having that knowledge in mind now what good is, when an individual like you or myself or anyone else decides to not engage in their intended purpose and instead is lazy, does nothing, prefers to live in a virtual world instead of the real one,

does all of these things and tries to subvert the true nature of humanity. Abdicate responsibility. Abdicate responsibility. All of these things, it leaves them wanting. They're so upset. They're never joyful because they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. They're not engaged in what is, they're not engaged in their purpose. And so, it's not good. So then I would argue the purpose of man, as I said in the ecclesiastity, not I said, as the ecclesiastes say, is to serve the Lord. And so unless man is doing that, and you know, of course, you can do things of value. I'm not saying that everything that man does is not valuable, but Paul says, I compare all my old things I did, no matter how good they seemed

as loss in comparison to following Christ. This has been really interesting. It has been. I've had so much fun. You know, I, well, it won't be the last time. Yeah, you know, I would say, I was saying to the listener, you know, like, well, in preparation of this, I went and listened to some of your podcasts. And I'd been sent it after I watched you talk about Revelation. And so I was like, yeah, I go, sure. And then I listened to the first one,

and it passed so fast because it's only 20 minutes. I'm like, what the heck was that? Yeah. Like that wasn't even an app-that's like going to that fancy restaurant, you get an appetizer, and it's a leaf with a little bit of sprinkled mustard or something. Like, what is it? Like, you realize we don't do this on the farm, Right? Like that was it? What was that? Right? And I, I, I, I tackle about it because I'm just like, you know, when you, when you discuss some of the topics that are happening, you know, you have a very unusual ability to like engage in a listener to like, ooh, that is interesting.

Well, thank you. Yeah. I take it for whatever it is. I just, to me, I was very like, huh, it made me want to listen again. I was again and anyways then I listened to your last I'm like but that was like that was a little while ago I know been speaking so many so often lately well I mean I guess that's a good thing too there's nothing wrong with that either way to the listener you know um and to everything else I was just like you know well Sean can help that out because obviously this is what I do and sometimes having somebody who's just like hey come this day and away you go because I don't think this will be the last time that uh Sean wants to broach this topic because as people can tell I'm very curious about it.

Yeah, right? You seek truth. It's clear you seek truth. Why? That's evident. You get to this point and there's just, yep. What is that?

Yep. I should do the final question with you. And once again, folks, you know, here's something for people to text me as they're texting their thoughts and either ripping Tanner apart, ripping me apart, or giving their own version of how this is played out in their life because all of those will happen. Yeah.

is um crude master's been uh heath and tracy have been like phenomenal and uh i have not made life easy on them at any point because i i'd love to just you know uh you tell me not to talk about x i go talk to that about x you tell me not to talk about some or with some person because they're they're a danger to society you go talk to the dangerous society because somewhere in there you're going to either find out they truly are yes or they're being made to be what they are. Yep. So the thing is when you talk to those people, you talk about it for two hours and then you realize the last question, chances are they're going to say what they've just talked about for two hours. But either way. So my question is a listener. While you're texting

out, you should text me what you want the final question to be, maybe coming up. If there's something that's, you know, on your mind, or maybe there's some way we can interact with that so that fans can have a little bit more, or listeners can have a little more influence on the last little portion of this. So here it is. His words a few years ago now was if you believe in something, then stand behind it absolutely. What's one thing Tanner believes in? Oh, Jesus Christ. That's, that's the only thing I believe in is Jesus Christ. Can I ask, you said you had a bit of a journey in there, if you don't mind me. Yeah, yeah. Prying. How long ago, did it just smack you across the head, or has it been since a very young age? Well, so, of course, I've got to

from a Christian family. Like my grandpa was a preacher. Yeah, but you could always rebel. Of course. And again, my mom and my mom and dad are Christians. And so I understood the necessity of salvation from a young age because they taught it early and I was at camp every summer. Because of course, Matt isn't saved by going to church. He isn't saved because his parents are saved. It's an individual salvation for every individual who's ever lived. But at any rate, I understood the need for salvation at an early age, like, you know, five kind of thing. And so it was then that I accepted Christ as Savior.

But it wasn't until, I don't know, like early university kind of thing, that it really, what would you say? Well, whack me over the head. Like, okay, so for the majority of my early life, and again, I'm not putting this on my parents. This is entirely my own fault. I lived as, well, like most individuals insofar as, or at least, as an individual who didn't really understand Christianity

because I was trying so hard to live by the law to get to Christ using the works, using good works. I tried to not tell lies and not steal and not cheat or whatever it was, you know, all of these things. Which are good things. Which are good things. But I worked so hard to get to that objective standard of Christ through my own merit that it actually woke up sin in me. Paul says in Romans 7, he says, it's the funniest thing he goes, because once I was alive apart from the law,

but once the law came, once I read the commandment, you shall not covet. He says in Romans like 7, 13 to 21, he's like, I started coveting. It's the weirdest thing he goes. He's like, people think, you know, he says, well, now that the law is there, I know what not to do. And he's like, no, it's the opposite. When I saw the law, I started doing things that I know I wasn't supposed to do. And I think the same thing was true with me because I thought that the law was a list. of rules and regulations that I had to keep to be more righteous.

And I already, well, then I wasn't, you know, to be righteous. I broke the law often, like God's law, the commandments. And as a consequence, I wasn't close to the Lord. I mean, you know, I still counseled at camp and all of these things, but it wasn't a freeing salvation. But then, by the grace of God, honestly, in university, one day I have this epiphany that I'm already saved in Christ. it before, but you know how you never, you know, sometimes your eyes just open up one day,

they just something clicks. And that's what happened. One day I, my eyes something clicked where I knew I was saved. And so I began to really research the law and so on in greater detail. And that's when I realized that the law isn't a list of rules and regulations. Instead, it's this outline, this picture of Jesus so that I might see that I'm not Jesus. I'm not perfect. And I need a savior. And so, of course, I knew all of that already, but I didn't really know You know, I didn't really understand it until early university. And from that point on, once it clicked that, I was saved by grace alone, by faith, not by works. So I couldn't boast the transformation in how I've tried to study the scriptures and live by Christ

and a work to be separated from the rest of the world, but still be in it, but not be of it, is, yeah, beyond, I'd say beyond comprehension. It doesn't really, it is rational, but it's not. really it's miraculous I would say yeah it is rational but kind of isn't that so typical I love Christianity for that reason it's so full of paradoxes that makes sense but they just they draw what can't make sense to something that does make sense Christ is God and man virgin birth you know man can be saved by grace you know you have all of these paradoxes lion and lamb you know you have Christ who

loves little children, you know, like righteously and their innocence, but also completely decimates evil with more ferocity than the strongest soldier, more than Alexander the Great, and Napoleon, and Wellington and all of these great leaders. You have at one time, you know, a salvation that's totally by works, and as a consequence, you do good things instead of just being bad and partying and do all these things that are sinful. So it's an amazing thing. It's remarkable. And I think it's the only way to make sense of life too.

I think those paradoxes. And now, okay, so when you get into act like true philosophy, I suppose some philosophers have different ideas. For me, and this is going to sound strange, but I don't really have much of a problem with withholding what seem to be contradictions together. Like light, light can travel as both apparently, a particle and a wave.

And it's like it exists at the same time. It doesn't make sense really. but apparently it does. And so I have no problem holding to the idea. Well, this is, I'm glad you bring, human beings want everything to make absolute sense. Yep. This is how it works.

It's my curiosity that has led me to this point, you know? It's like, how do things work? Yeah. And when something doesn't make sense, you ask questions. Yeah. And if people won't allow you to ask questions, something's wrong. Something's wrong. So then you ask more questions.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So you keep asking these questions. And eventually you get to the point where you're like, no matter how many questions you ask, you're going to hit this, what do they call it an interstellar? Geez, I can't think of it when they're looking over a black hole. Event horizon.

You're going to hit this spot where it's a leap of faith almost. Yep. Because there's no possible way to know. Yes. No matter how many, you can piece together all these stories and understand like, oh man, there's a shared experience here that is unlike something else. Yeah. But it's still like, what is this?

Yes. And the thing is, is, you know, do you really want to know? Yes. And if you could know, do you think you could handle it? Or understand it. God says in Habakkuk. Habakkuk says, Lord, tell me what you're doing. And God says, I won't Habakkuk, because even if I told you, you wouldn't believe it.

He's like, you wouldn't get it. You wouldn't understand. You wouldn't think that what I was telling you was true. So I'm not going to tell you. Now, that isn't to say he doesn't entertain questions. He certainly does. but his answers are often usually, almost every, probably every time,

far different than what we expect. You know, the problem we have right now is we're questioning everything, and again, questions are excellent, but we're questioning the rationality of everything to such a point that you start questioning rationality itself. And again, it eats itself alive. Unless you have something solid and stable

like this table to hold everything else up, all your questions up, it's going to collapse. So you go to school, to university, and they question the rationality of this. this thing. They question the rationality of that thing. And they're going to such a point where they're going, well, why should things be rational? What is rationality? And the entire structure collapses in on itself. But with Christ, I go, that's a stop. That's rationality. He's the foundation upon which I can build the house of everything else. He's the self-evident law, the true law. I am who I am,

the reason for existence itself. And from there, I can build, or he's builds and society builds truth upon it. And you know what I thought I have to end this thing? Is you realize by having this chat you're a complete nutter badass because most, you know, and I don't mean to say Christians won't do this. Yeah, yeah. They certainly will. But to approach it the way you are with such ferocity and everything else in a time when you're

supposed to hide away. Yeah. And not talk about your thoughts and your beliefs and everything else. I chuckle at that last thought I'm having in my head, but there it is. Well, thank you. Well, I appreciate you coming in and doing this dinner. And, you know, certainly I knew what I was, I thought about it all morning. I'm like, well, this is going to be interesting, right?

Regardless, I'll be interested to see what happens on the phone line tomorrow because, you know, it'll start way too early and it'll go, I'm sure, through the day. But either way, I've appreciated this. You know, before I let you out of here, I've got it written down and I was curious about it. We don't have to spend much time on it unless you want to, unless there's no story or whatever. Yeah. But, you know, once upon a time we first met, and you mentioned right off the hop, you were part of APP. Yep. And Mojury was the president.

President? CEO. Yeah. One of them. And neither of you were there. Yes. I assume, and, you know, I'm sorry, folks, some days I live under a rock. I assume there's a story there.

What happened there? Well, so I resigned from APP in October. And I don't know. There's always a few reasons. Honestly, one of the main reasons was, if not the main reason, okay, so I had my own personal page, like my own personal website, and I still do, of course. And then I was working with APP. Now, as a non-profit organization, APP is non-political. It has no religious affiliation. It, you know, it has a strict set of rules that they have to abide by in order to, well, operate, you know,

according to elections, Alberta, or whatever the rules are. Now, I was also on the board of APP, at that time in October. Okay, so I wanted to transition to more Christian content, because as I was watching all of the things that everyone was doing, my thought was, it's just, for me it wasn't satisfactory, because again, I don't believe you can put your faith in a politician, I don't believe you can put your faith

in mere mortal. I want to speak about Christ, he's the one I serve, he's the one I believe in, and so I thought it appropriate to, or I wanted to do more, of that. Now, you can see my dilemma. Dilemma. Insofar as if I was on the board of of APP, I have, and rightfully so, an obligation to conduct myself in a certain matter that doesn't compromise the integrity of APP. On the other hand, I wanted to talk about Christ and, you know... You realize we are more similar than, well, I didn't, I didn't, I went to work with Western

Standard for three months. Yep. And everybody always wonders what happened. It was, Sean happened. Sean wanted to be Sean. Sean didn't want to be, and they weren't controlling, but I could feel over time where it was going to go. Yes. And you rewind all the way back to episode one. Why did Sean call it his name and not whatever you want?

Right. Because Sean gets to go wherever Sean wants to go. And it's on Sean. Right. Nobody else. You don't have to listen to Sean's rambling. He's in his interviews if you don't want to. You can think, whatever Sean, Sean is perfectly fine with where Sean is at.

And yet, that's what you're getting. getting at with Tanner. Yes. Is you had this conflicting problem. Yes. You were called to do this. Right. And where you were at wouldn't allow it.

Right. And then, you know, the Lord's miraculous, how he works, the circumstances to make it so clear. But anyways, so I said, well, I'll resign from APP. And then if they still want to have me speak as an independent speaker. Sure. But now you're independent. Right.

And so that's what happened. I've spoken up north and central and south. And, you know, just last week I was in New Serepta after the Wainwright event with APP. And that's been a blessing. Now with Mojri, I believe he was on, he resigned, I think, start of February or sometime in February. And after I, like, after I resigned from APP, I made sure to stay separate from APP. Just because it's not a, I don't think it's appropriate to continue to try and meddle in business that's no longer yours.

And so I didn't really know what was, you know, what changes they were making and so on. at any rate Modri was at your event on Saturday and so I was able to see him and his wife they're both you know

Lon is very lovely very nice lady and they were sitting at a table and I went up and said hello and um um um

um um well you know what I think I'll say this modry said his reasons for as best I understand it on Chris Scott's show

with the with him and Chris and Carey show and the only reason I'd say that is maybe because I don't know if it's my place to say well I tell you what I'm not gonna have well and he said to me that night yeah he came up and shook my hand he said I got a couple of answers for you have me on your show I said that's funny I met you at APP I thought you forgot who I was and he's like oh no I haven't forgot right I'm like it's funny your card's been on my bed anyway it's long story yeah he's like well call me yeah and then he said

that as he left again so you don't have to speak yeah I'll try I'll try and get him on so that way he can say for himself his story and and everything else you know it is you hear you phone five different guys. You get five different answers about, you know, what's why he left and so on. So that might be best. Of course, yeah. So to be totally honest, right now, it's if APP or any other group or political party calls me to speak, I'm happy to go and speak. But other than that, and I think that's, I think that's maybe, yeah, part of a Christian walk too insofar as lonely is the wrong word, though it can be lonely,

like anything else in life. But it's, you have to be separate. It's, you know, same thing with, with you and Western standard, where it's, yeah, as a consequence of speaking the truth, sometimes that means you have to go at it more alone than you otherwise would be. Well, it's, for me,

the trust of my audience is the thing that kind of gives me peace of mind. If you've been listening to me, for, hey, there's a couple out there probably 402 episodes plus everything else I've put out there. It's probably closer to 500 at this point. And they've listened to everything. So they've heard the entire journey. And you know, listen, anyone can go do that.

Yep. And they know exactly who I am. As soon as you have another organization starting to meddle. And once again, I don't know how to say this, folks, then there was nothing that Western Standard did that was bad. Right. Just that now you have this entity. Yeah, it's an organization. Yeah.

Yeah. You go, uh-uh. I'm just going to be over here. And if I interview the most extreme person on the planet, it's because Sean chose it. And I want everybody to know that and not have to question it. Right. Or, you know, whatever.

I bring a tan. We talked about this. Yeah, totally. You know. Yep. And then you don't, there's no more liability on your, like, you know, on the organization. Now it's just you and I. Or now it's just me.

And what I say, I don't know, I know I don't have to abide by, for example, nonprofit rules because I'm, I'm, you don't have a rule book. Right. you is the Bible. Right. Precisely. Yes. That's exactly right. Yes. And so, yep, that's also what I think so many churches have become is these organizations, these massive organizations that have lost their love to preach the truth. And again, I'm not saying Western Standard or APP isn't preaching the truth, but you know what I mean? Where they go, well, we have a board now, board members who have a certain list of regulations that the pastor should follow. Don't speak on

this topic or that topic or that topic. And we're going to do this and that. And it completely dilutes the gospel to a point where it's not the gospel anymore. It's actually, you know, from a media standpoint, independent specifically, is if all of a sudden we all fell over a giant organization that's trying to monitor the internet and everything else, how would the content change? Right. Because now you could be fined, you could be all these different things. And I've never, to me, that's an unelected body, you know, that's been put in place by somebody

that, you know, is going to be government for sure. trying to control what gets said and everything else. And that's what's so exciting about these days, even as dark a time as they are, is you can still have people on. And I mean, Rogan absolutely hammered a highway for people to follow along with this when he started his podcast.

And there's others along that way. But essentially, we can talk about anything. And if you don't like it, you just turn it off. Yeah, you know, like it's, you want to learn things? Turn it on. Absolutely. Yep, exactly right. Man, I've enjoyed this. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming in.

Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. This was a lot of fun.