Shaun Newman Podcast - #426 - Tanner Hnidey 2.0

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

Author, speaker, lay-theologian and economist in industrial organization. He's an indpendent commentator who has worked with many groups and organizations offering political and economic expertise. You can find him at tannerhnidey.com Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 SNP Presents: Luongo & Krainer https://www.showpass.com/snp-presents-luongo-krainer/ Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

This is Vance Crow. I'm Alex Craneer. My name is David John Parker. This is Alex Epstein. This is Leighton Gray, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. Hope everybody's weekend, not week.

Oh, figured out, Sean. Hope it is week. Weekend. Did it again. Overty's weekend. That's how we're going to start, I guess, today. SMP presents the next show, Longo and Criner, June 10th, in the show.

Show notes. Tickets are available. Hope to see you there. I think that's going to be a fun evening. It sounds like we got some people coming in from afar already looking forward to seeing Tom and Alex together. So it's sounding like Toronto won, a couple people from BC maybe by the sounds of it. So we'll wait and see how that all shakes out. Either way, I hope you buy some tickets to it. I hope we get to see you here in Lloydminster at the Gold Horse Casino. That's June 10th. Tickets in the show notes. Now, Canadians for Truth, they're a nonprofit organization consisting of Canadians who believe in honesty, integrity, and principal leadership in government, as well as the Canadian Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights and Freedoms,

and the Rule of Just Laws. They've been doing lots of live shows. They got one coming up May 25th. I was just talking to Shadow, because I was hoping he was driving through. He's flying into Calgary, which I got to figure out if I can make it there. But anyways, Shadow Davis, Canaanians for Truth, that's May 25th. All you've got to go is CananiansforTruth.C.A. You can find out about all their live events, who they're bringing in, and all that good stuff.

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80 years they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricant, methadoling, delivering to your farm, commercial, or oilfield locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock Petroleum.com. He's an author, speaker, lay theologian, and economist, an independent political commentator who's worked with many groups and organizations offering political, economic, and public policy expertise. I'm talking about Tanner today, so buckle up, here we go. overwhelming. People were so impressed.

Oh. Yeah. They just loved it. Yeah, they're like phenomenal, like, yeah. They couldn't get over how good you were. Yeah, they just loved it. Yeah, yeah, we did. That isn't just me. No, right? Like that's... Yeah, sometimes you go on interviews and you know, you don't say too much because the interviewer's talking so much or the conversation just turns stale or who knows what kind of thing. They're confrontational, etc. But here it's just let's have a chat. Yeah. Well, and

it's funny because you just like you hit certain things when you're talking about them that just hit like the zeitgeist right they just hit what everybody's thinking about yeah and somebody put out to me after it's like two and a half hours of jesus never thought i would see that coming and i want more and it's like yeah like i get it we're all thinking about this yeah yeah we're all here's an odd one for yeah i don't know if this is ever happening yeah it's happened to me twice now okay twice i'm reading a screw tape or let's oh yeah yeah that one's really um well it's almost not that I've lived it but in the opening in the opening uh yeah of uh C S Lewis

says you know like don't ask me how I got this blah blah blah blah and I'm like I'm like that's brilliant yeah oh it's brilliant and and I'm like yeah I know and he's like for all you know that this whole story could be fabricated like he's like it could be a lie except except it's not except it's not but he's like I don't trust the demon of course but yeah except but you know yeah you know it's not it's it's it's it's brilliant so I I've only gotten through like, I don't know, seven letters or something. I started last night, I'm like, Sean, you got to go to bed, okay? So this is a weird story.

So twice this has happened to me. Once when Bruman got in his accident, and he got in a bad truck accident, and now he's been paralyzed from the waist down. Yeah. And I had this dream that was so vivid. Yeah. And when I came out of it, I was like vibrating. I don't know how better to explain it.

It was just like, it was almost like you'd lived it. Yeah. It was wild. Yeah. And then other people, the more people I told about the dream, there's other people that had the same dream. You're like, okay, I don't know what that is. Yeah.

But that's wild. Anyways. So I'm reading this screw tape letters last night. And, you know, for the listener, I wish I would have, I should have just brought it in. But essentially, it's, it's part of the underworld, an assistant to the devil, talking to his nephew who's, you know, a demon. and they're trying to corrupt souls. Right, right.

And so I have this dream last night that I'm being like literally attacked. Yep. And when I wake up, it's the same type of like, well, it unnerved me quite quite well. And I walked around the house and made sure everything was fine before I went back to bed and I had our time going back to bed because I'm like, what on earth was that? Yep. Yep. Good question. like and the kicker is like okay so even you read the scriptures and all throughout the scriptures there are stories of well in particular kings who have especially in the old testament who have the same experience they have a dream that's so vivid and so crystal clear and profound that they

ask their astrologers and they ask their wise men they go what does this mean there's something profound about this. And then, you know, the scriptures will show that the astronomers and astrologers and magicians can't figure it out. So, for example, they call in Daniel, or Daniel says, I can do it, or Joseph says, I can read the dream, I can understand, or I can't, but God can read it, and he'll speak through me. And then from that comes a message. So in Joseph's example, there's a message of warning, that there's going to be seven years of famine after seven years of good harvest. So store up your grain now and prepare or Daniel receives all of these revelations about the king like Nebuchadnezzar and so one, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, they can be profound. They're so mysterious, but

yeah, I wish I understood them more, to be entirely honest, because not that I don't dream much myself, maybe it's because I'm not very creative in my mind or something, but yeah, You hear stories like that where guys... You don't dream that much? Not particularly. I tend to be... I'm not a very heavy sleeper, but my mind, I guess, isn't that active in sleep. Or that's just not...

I just don't dream that much. My mom used to, but I don't dream that much. It's funny. I've been... I go in spurts, you know? Sometimes you have, like, dreams and you just like, what was that, right? Yep. This last, like, two weeks has been something else.

And I was talking to Benjamin Anderson. He's a guy from St. Louis. So shout out to Ben, if you're listening, because me and him got talking about dreams on here. And he talked about his theory was it kind of allows you to see the future. And what you're kind of saying with the biblical interpretation, right, Joseph and them saying God will speak through me, is it's kind of the same thing.

It's a warning to the future or maybe a vision into the future. And lately I've been having strange old dreams. And so vivid. And it doesn't seem no matter what I do at night. I'm not trying to say I'm trying to get away from them, but at the same time when they're like, you know, so vivid at times, it's like, I just want to sleep. Can I just sleep? Can I just sleep?

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Hmm. I wish I understood more about the mind and the way that works. Like, yeah. So many actually profound stories in the scriptures happen because God sends a dream, even Joseph, like Jesus's father, earthly father.

you know, God sends him a dream first and says, that says, don't break up with Mary because, you know, this miraculous conception is from the Holy Spirit. She hasn't committed adultery. And then he says, you guys, after he says, you guys have to flee, get to Egypt because, you know, Herod is hunting you. And, well, he's hunting Christ. He wants to kill Christ. So, you know, for whatever particular reason, in those specific circumstances, God speaks through dreams. It's, I don't understand why. But he does.

It's amazing. Now, now, you know, yeah, not that I'm, again, I'm not an expert on it, but today it might be different. It's, yeah, it's just you, it's funny. Those individuals in the scriptures who had those vivid dreams, they knew there was something different about them. They knew it wasn't just, you know, a random dream. There was something specific. and it so penetrated their soul and their psyche that they couldn't shake it until they knew exactly what was coming,

exactly what was happening. They just searched high and low for the meaning of that particular dream. It's fascinating. I wonder, you know, it's too bad you can't go. Well, I mean, I guess you can certainly go read about it, right? Yes. So when you're talking, one of the things that I've found interesting about reading the Bible, I was saying that after, you know, we had our first chat, and we were talking before we started

here, like, people were like, what was that? That was fantastic. You should do that again. You should have them back on. And I'm like, well, yeah, like, it's something that I'm wrestling with, obviously. And I think a lot, and I'm hearing a lot more that other people are wrestling with it as well. One of the things I'm finding out reading the Bible, you know, and for people, I started in the New Testament, and so I'm into John now. Yes, okay. Excellent. Matthew, Mark, Mark, Luke, John. Yes. Okay, so I'm into John. And when I'm finding out is like especially the New Testament I don't know I can't say for the rest but those first four books at least are the retelling of the same same story but very different like

they're the same story but they're not the same story and it's very interesting right like like the little little nuggets that are left in all of them if I go back to the the stories you're talking about with interpreting dreams and everything else does it say in there at all something along the lines like the king hadn't been having those types of dreams in this one or it's just like he had a dream and it shook him so much that he went searching no it's more that it's the latter yeah it's it's he had a dream and it shook him so much that he went searching yep at least as far as i can tell what the scriptures when they speak about these things usually they just say nebuchadnezzar had a dream the pharaoh had a dream whatever it was and it was a profound dream it was something that yeah rocked them to their

core and they had to discover what the meaning of that dream was. It just consumed them until they understood what it meant. And you're right about the Gospels too. It's fascinating. Each writer, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, they all target a different section of society, it seems, like Matthew, for example, is clearly targeted for the Jews because it's so concerned with, for example, the heritage of Christ and his fulfillment, his fulfillment of the law, et cetera, et cetera. Mark, on the other hand, is so concerned with power, with telling the story short and sweet and simple, like Romans would want it, very to the point.

Here's who Christ is. Here's why he's supreme, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas John is much more philosophical. You know, John begins with this brilliant first five verses. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word went forth. And, you know, nothing has been made without him, et cetera, et cetera. And it's this philosophical telling of the gospel and showing how, you know, even for the Greeks,

Christ is the Messiah. He's this incarnate word, this truth. And so John tells it in a different way than Mark does. Mark is different than Luke. Luke is different than Matthew. But they all harmonize into this beautiful scripture to talk about Jesus. You know, one of the, I mean, maybe that's why I'm enjoying John so much, because I like a philosophical discussion as good as anyone. I love John. I agree.

One of the things that you told me after we finished last time was about Jesus telling Peter, I believe, Peter, Satan get behind us. And one of the, I was like, he did not, you know, so then that was fascinating to read that. And actually, what I find even more thought-provoking isn't that part. It's now into John, him talking about one of you is Satan to his 12. Imagine the most purest soul on the planet still has picked one who's going to betray him. That's a thought and a half, isn't it? Isn't it? It's borderline incomprehensible.

It is incomprehensible. And then imagine traveling with that individual that you know is going to betray you for three some years. and like intimately sharing friendship and meals. So do you think, do you think he could, like, I mean, it's such a, like, it's such a hypothetical, folks. I mean, it's ridiculous even talking about. But you, okay, so you're sitting there, you're Jesus, which obviously we're not. But let's just imagine that you could even remotely be in that position. And you know he's going to betray you.

So why not just cast him out? Yeah. Or do you think, well, maybe if I change him, or you're just like, you can just see the plan how it has to play out and it doesn't matter. I mean, he knows he's going to be on the cross at some point. Right. So it's like, well, this is the way it happens. It has to be somebody in my inner circle to betray me in order to tell the story even. I don't know.

Right. To me, that's, that hurts my brain. Yes. That's, I would say that, no, not I would say. The scriptures say that's the way it has to happen, but you have to be careful and not say, well, it doesn't matter then. There's, this is that, this is that so mysterious paradox that occurs. Okay. So I think as human being.

you and I tend to believe that either man can have free will or he can be determined. And those two lines exist on a parallel road, and they never cross. They can't cross. You're either one or the other. It's either entirely libertarian or it's entirely determined, and that's that. When I read the scriptures, my sense of it is that, and again, incomprehensible, but my sense of it is that in heaven, in the throne with the Lord, those two lines actually cross.

They do converge at some point, and they can exist simultaneously. I think you can have both. On the one hand, John 6, 35 to 40, in John 6, 35 to 40, Christ says, whoever comes to me, whoever the father gives to me will come to me, okay? And whoever comes to me, I won't ever throw away.

I won't ever determine, or, you know, cast aside. They're mine. Ephesians 1, 4, and 5 says basically the same thing. Paul's like, we've been predestined for sonship to adoption or to adoption to sonship in Christ. Okay. On the other hand, you read 2nd Peter. I think it's 2nd Peter 3.9. And it says, you know, God is not slow in casting judgment as some understand slowness.

Instead, he's patient, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. And you read the whole gospels. You read the entirety of the Acts. The whole story of the Acts is the disciples going around and the apostles going around saying, repent, the kingdom of God is at hand. And it's for all people. It's for all mankind. The Hebrews say that. All the scripture says that Christ was sacrificed outside the city gate of Jerusalem so that his sacrifice might apply to the entire world so that any man who listens and believes, anyone who calls in the name of the Lord, will be saved. So you have two what seemed to be completely contradictory views that I actually think harmonize again on the cross with Christ. You know, we had that last time we talked about how Christ can hold, he's on the cross and his arms are stretched out, and he can hold one view with his left arm and one on his right arm and he can bring them together in a way that's so mystical. I don't know if we can comprehend

it. But that's the only way I can understand the scriptures is they exist simultaneously. In one hand, God chooses those who are saved. On the other hand, The gospel is, come to Christ and you will be saved. Doesn't matter who you are. You know, repent and believe. Your choice, repent and believe. So in that regard, that's what I believe about that. So with Christ, it had to happen, had to happen that way.

But, you know, Judas still chose it. And Jesus still chose for it to happen that way. Yeah, when you said parallel and you had fate versus. We have choice, correct? Right, right. And I often wonder, and I don't know if this is correct, but this is the way my brain looks at it, is if you have the path, which could be many paths on fate.

This is what you're supposed to do. Right. But you have self-determination, which means it's sitting there right alongside you. You're walking alongside it. Yes. But it's for you to see it and actually act upon it. Right. Otherwise, you get strayed to other sides.

So you're actually side by side, but you can intersect whenever you want to but once you intersect you bounce off again right because it's almost like a doorway that's constantly opening I don't know if that makes you think right yes oh that's not a bad thought it's an interesting thought hmm I'm just thinking of the scriptures here

as you think one of the like to me as I've lived life and you slow it down you speed it up you slow it down you're never you can see doors open right yes I completely agree And to me, the doors open is like, well, was that fader, wasn't it? Right.

But it was your choice to stay. I tell the story of my wife a lot, and she probably gets annoyed by this story. But like, when I go to Northland, and I, once again, I apologize, folks. I don't know why I apologize about the story. It's just, to me, it sticks out. And I see it happen in other people's stories. I go to Northland on a recruiting trip for hockey. I go to two places.

I go to Scalaska and Northland. Scalaska's ranked in the country, has the best facilities under the sun. Northland's an hour away. They didn't win a game last year. Their facilities stink, but they got great people. Like, I just, I get it. I go there, look around. I'm like any college athlete.

I go, I ain't coming here. Yeah. I get in the vehicle to leave. Giant snowstorm starts. I'm a Canadian boy. I can make it an hour back. I get to like the outskirts of town, two ambulance, go flying by, and I go, more I could just spend a night.

Yep. And the rest is kind of history, right? Like, you kind of start to let, and all of a sudden you're there. And who's the first curl I meet on campus, my wife. Now, I was a complete nutter A-hole tour. and I know that but I mean you know it's kind of like

well was it self to well yes maybe yes but I still have to choose it I think that's an excellent example that shows it see on the one hand in Romans 9 this is the scripture

I'm thinking of I think it's Romans 9 13 and it goes a little ways Paul talks about how okay he says on he says you look at what God did to Pharaoh as in the Pharaoh in Exodus

and he's like he's like God clearly hardened his heart it says that in the Exodus but then Paul repeats it he's like God hardened the heart of Pharaoh because that's that

That's what God wanted to do. And so in a sense, not in a sense, no, not in a sense. God hardened Pharaoh's heart, and there was nothing Pharaoh could do about it. Now, Pharaoh had been actively rebelling against God. Pharaoh had seen all the plagues and said, no, no, I'm not letting the Israelites go. So on one hand you have that. On the other hand, you have God saying, your heart's hardened. I, the Lord, am hardening your heart, whether you like it or not.

So you won't be able to say, let the people go. They're going to go by my hand, not yours. And Paul says the reason God did that is to demonstrate his power, God's power, for the whole world to see and to demonstrate his supremacy and his authority. So I think your example is a good one. I like that a lot because it demonstrates the two quite clearly. Like as a Christian, here's what's interesting. As a Christian, I don't even want my free will. I want the Lord to dictate every action of my life.

the whole story of Christ is he was in perfect submission to God's will. That's who Christ is. He's a man. He's more than a man, of course, but he's an individual who was every second of every hour, of every day, in perfect submission to the will of God. I don't want my free will anymore. I mean, you know, on the one hand, it's what makes you human, fair enough. But on the other hand, I don't want to choose for myself what I want to do. I want God to choose for me, and I want simply to obey.

That's what I want. I want to submit to the Lord in all things and say, what do you want me to do today? Where do you want my left foot going? Where do you want my right foot going? And I'll do it. That's what I desire. Because then I know it's going to conclude or converge at the greatest possible outcome for me, the greatest possible path.

Anytime I take my own choice and do what I want, do what I see to what, anytime I do what I believe is right or think is best for me, it tends to be the opposite. or it tends to not work out as well as it could have or should have if I had been in perfect submission to the Lord. Yeah, but he gives you the free will. Yes, that's fair. He gave it to Adam and Eve clearly, absolutely, and to all mankind. It's part of what makes us different than animals.

Insofar as we have the opportunity and the ability to deny our instinct. You know, on one hand, you have a slow driver in front of you, and sometimes you want to just get out and just bop them on the head and say, you know, why don't you drive properly? But as rational individuals, we have the opportunity and the ability. to say, no, I'm not going to do that because I have a choice to make. I have a law. I have morality, which is within me. Fair enough. Great. But then as a Christian, I go, what I really want is for God to make every single decision in my life. And of course, I still interact with it, but I want

to be in such perfect submission to his will that I'm merely an instrument. I'm merely a tool for his design. That's what I desire. And then my life will. yeah, climb to the summit of what it can be in service to his kingdom. That's what I want. And especially in today's age, that is a, that's a rebellious thing to say. In today's age of empowerment, in today's age of choice, in today's age of, you know, the supremacy of man, that's a very rebellious thing to say because society would think actually you'd want the exact opposite. You'd want as much of your own will as possible. You'd want to employ as much of your own will as possible

to demonstrate just how powerful mankind is or I am. And the Christian says, no, actually, we want the opposite. I don't know if I've ever really, like I've certainly thought about it, I guess. But when I, when I think about it, it's more, like, give me the patience to see the, door. Right. You'll show them to me. Right. And if I can see them, then I have the choice again of stepping through. It's kind of like, I don't know, maybe I'm completely full of crap, right? But I look at it and I'm like, then I feel in control, even though I know it's them or him

opening the door, right? Does that make sense? I don't know. Yes, I do. But to me, when I read the scriptures, he doesn't go just like, sure, do what I say. But he gives you the free, will to do that. And so I guess, I don't know, I talk myself in a circle about it, but I don't know if I've really put enough thought into it. I just love the beauty of, you know, I come back to my wife, because as you can imagine, folks, Sean loves being philosophical. So, you know, we'll get trapped in traffic.

And Sean used to get really mad about that. And then, I don't know, a couple things just really changed me, dawned on me, that type of thing. And now when I get trapped in traffic, I'm like, ah, who knows, maybe we dodged a bullet, maybe we missed. and that's just the design of things maybe and and you know and maybe I needed to be 15 minutes late or five minutes early or maybe you know and it's some days you can feel that it's like no matter how hard I try I'm still running 10 minutes behind or what have you yep and sometimes I think like that's just you know the good Lord above looking out for you yes and my wife laughs at that all the time

she's like ah yes the old philosophical shodd driving around I'm old grandpa shaw and driving it I'm I'm the guy going slow in front of you. And I'm just like tootling because it's like, well, I mean, if I go a buck 40, and sometimes folks, I will go a buck 40. But it's almost, you know, show me the way and we'll go, you know. But I like to think my eyes can, you know, what does he say? For those who have ears, let them hear. For those who have eyes, let them see.

Yes, exactly. And for the question, like in Romans 8, Romans 8, I think it's 25 to 27. I'm sure it's that. Anyways, God says, maybe it's 28, 29. Anyways, it's somewhere in those late 20s of Romans 8. God says, we know, or Paul says, we know that God works for the good of those who believe in him. Like in all things.

You know, so he's echoing your statement, which is it might be that one day you're running late, 20 minutes late. And it's like, okay, that's maybe not ideal in your immediate vision. But perhaps if you were right on time, you know, you would have got hip, you would have got hit by a bus or something happens, you know, in that span, which completely dramatically alters your trajectory in life.

Well, I think about it. I'll bring it to the, we were supposed to do this two days ago. Yes. We didn't. And I laughed when I was texting because I'm like, no, we should just power through it. I'm like, ah, but I'm like, looking at the thing. I was just like, I don't know how I'm going to get this. Anyways, so I could text you, not a big deal, right?

And I just go, ah, maybe it was just meant bad. And then I have the dream last night. And I'm like, that's why I bring it up right off the hop. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it means nothing. Yeah. Maybe somebody needed to hear it. I have no idea.

Maybe I just need to get it off my chest because I mean like, it was bizarre. In my world, it is bizarre to have a dream like that. I've only ever had two of them. Not identical. And certainly I'm reading screw tape letters at night, which I mean isn't exactly the most lightest thing in the world. No, it's not the lightest book in the world. It's almost inviting it. I'm like, almost inviting this onto your life.

You know, it's like you read that and you're like, it's good. Yes. But it's a thought. It's heavy, yes. And so I go, if we've done this two days ago, this would never got talked about. Actually, I would have hopped right into the municipal affairs, right? But instead I'm like, yeah, we got to talk a little bit about this, right? Of course.

I don't know. Who knows? And for the question, it's so exciting because, you know, right now, I don't understand why things happen or certain things happen. I wish I did. Well, if I needed to know, I would know. But there are certain things, most things, I don't understand why this and that has happened. But in light of eternity, when I get to heaven, I'm quite confident God will say or show, this is why this happened.

This is why I allowed this to happen. This is why this happened. And so on and so on. And the perfect harmony of life will be unveiled for all of us to comprehend, or at least try to comprehend and see. And in that, we'll be able to just, you know, better uncover just how miraculous and loving and generous and caring the Lord Almighty is. I'm very excited for that. because it's yeah it's so yeah it's like why does this happen why does that happen and right now i don't understand but but maybe tomorrow or maybe not until eternity i will and it's funny i uh

i have a problem because i like to ask questions right like in questions although good folks can get you into like a little bit of trouble because it's like do you really want to know yeah i think yeah i think i do oh yeah do you really want to know oh yeah those souls who ask Jesus questions, some of the bravest souls to ever walk the earth. Because every time they asked the question, Jesus asked them something personal back, something often very revealing, you know, with whether it was regards to adultery or sins they had committed or so on and so on. It wasn't just a, you know, what's the answer to this? Because he would, he would, he would reply was something that completely opened up your chest and exposed you for the entire world to see,

or at least everyone who was following. And if it was recorded in the scripture, the whole world did see. So, yeah, it's, do you really want to know? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, but the problem is, but Sean kind of wants to know. Yeah, of course.

I wish you could, well, no, I don't wish I could be any different. My problem is, I'm curious, too fault. Like, I just, well, you just keep asking questions. Yeah. But why? Yeah. But why? I feel like, you know, when I'm talking to my seven-year-old son,

I'm kind of like, I'm kind of the 37-year-old version when it comes to, like, deep topics. Yeah. I actually look forward to when Shay or me and Casey want to have a discussion about this, because I'm like, I don't know. What do you think? Because I'm like, I'm kind of curious what a kid thinks about it. As much as I think about it because it's like, I don't think I'll ever have a handle on this.

I have my thoughts and my experiences and a bunch of different things going on of what have happened. Yeah. But it's like, do I have all the answers? No, not even close. Oh, but I agree. But questions are so great. Like you read Matthew 18, verses 3 to 5. And Jesus is like, honestly, anyone who's like a little child with a simple, simple questions,

well, any questions for that matter, but a hunger to know, a desire to know, he's like, they're the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. That's his direct quote. He's like, if you become like a child, like this child right beside me, you are the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. So what you're saying is, is he's having a lot of fun right now. Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely he is.

You know, our society, our adult society is far too adult-like, far too serious. If only we could laugh at ourselves and act a little bit more like children sometimes. Well, and not in the way that politicians act like children. I mean in the way that children act like children. With a genuine curiosity to know and not an ounce of arrogance, not a shred of pride, or at least as much pride as what we have, just a humble, genuine desire to ask questions without care of what others think and a desire to know.

That, the difference that it would create in our society, I think, would be monumental. We're far too serious. We take ourselves far too seriously. Only we could have a chuckle, a laugh. Yeah, it'd be much different. Yeah, it's funny. It's, you know, once again, to be rebellious in today's world, you have to talk about the Bible. I honestly chuckle about this.

Yes. You know, I'm like, I think I told you this last time, you know. I don't know if I would have been ever caught. dead having a conversation about this except I'm just like it's something I'm exploring right now yeah and I haven't been too uh I haven't hit too much from the audience and in sharing what I'm what I'm hiding or what I'm adding what I'm exploring right yeah and but four years ago I don't know if I would ever approach this subject I got oh this is taboo right right but you know I just once again I just was texting with a guest oh hopefully a guest perspective guest and I she said well

Toppy's interested. And I'm like, well, you know, like right now, Alberta politics. I mean, we've got an election coming up May 29th. That's big news. And I'm like, and kind of people's journey with faith. Like, whatever it is for you. I'm kind of curious to hear what you're going through. And she goes, well, I was born Christian.

But I don't think I really ever followed it, but I feel drawn to the Bible right now. And I started laughing at it. I sent her our episode. I said, well, go listen to the best. I'm like, it's happening for so many of us. And I sent you the quote, you know, about, oh, here, I'll pull it up so people can Yes, from John, right? From John, I believe, yes.

But he who practices the truth comes to light so that his deeds made me manifested as having been rotten God. And the longer I stare at it, it's the first line that gets me. And I don't like to just, it's more, me and my wife are talking about this. I like a story, right? Instead of just picking out one line and thinking every word of meaning ever comes from that line. Except when I think about what we talked about last time, Yep.

And where I'm at right now, he who practices the truth. So just right there. It's like, well, what are we been doing for the last year, four, three years, folks? I don't know. We've been talking a lot of truth.

We haven't been hiding away from it. It's been uncomfortable. It's been a lot of different words. Yes. So if you've been doing that, comes to the light. Yes. He who practices,

but he who practices the truth comes to the light. Yes. It's like, well, what's the light? Right? What does? The light is probably, in your words or you know this is the discussion we just had last last time about aiming for the the best possible you and you aim for Jesus and I'm

saying one of the best possible and we're kind of going and here I'm going but he who practices the light yes or who practices the truth will be led to the light and who is the light what does John say about who is the light it's all you'll see it all over John it's Christ it's Christ and so you wonder why everybody's being pulled to the Bible right now and there it is yes that's profound thought. If you seek truth, you will end up at Christ. I'm so convinced about that. He is the foundation. He's truth itself. If you look for truth, if you seek truth, you will end up at Christ. That's the road. Like, you know, you'll, he, you can't go farther

than Christ. You can't stop, you know, see Christ and then go, I got to go farther. It's that is the, that's the, he's the destination and the starting point. He's both. there's that paradox he's simultaneously the foundation of all things he's the alpha and the omega beginning and the end he has no beginning he has no end it's amazing i'm yeah i'm convicted about that convinced about that great great thought really profound thought the other thing i noticed been going to church for the last once again folks i didn't think i well no that's that's a lie mel and i talked about this lots about when our kids got old enough there's certain certain ages where i'm sure they're like yeah just break them it's great

That's where it's from. And you're trying to pull yourself out of the, you know, you're tired, you're warded out, everything. Anyways, we started going to church. And one of the first thoughts I had probably after like second time was on, I'm looking around, I'm like, it's all families. One of the place do we have in society right now that promotes the family unit. I'm not saying every church is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. And I'm not saying it's only for families, any stretch of the imagination. I'm just saying it's right there in front of you.

Yes. I actually don't, like, where else? Yep. Oh, yes, it's fundamental. I mean, it's so important that every Christian and every non-Christian for that matter read Genesis. You have to have the foundation of one's worldview, but the scriptures especially, is Genesis. It's so critical to read those first, well, all of Genesis, but those first chapters of Genesis, because you see literally in perfection, literally in the Garden of Eden, in this oasis. God's like, I'm making a family. I'm not just making one individual. I'm not just making, you know, two individuals who can frequent each other as they wish and as they will and then go their separate ways. No, they're a family, their husband and wife.

They are the rock or the foundation, a foundation of civilized society itself. You know, and it's reflected in the Trinity, right? Okay, so you have, the Trinity is, it's mysterious insofar as you have, The nature of God, the being of God is three persons. It's personified in three persons, but it's not three different individuals. It's one being whose nature is three persons. I can't wrap my head around it, but that's what the scriptures teach. You have God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Okay, that's that's, that's, you know, incomprehensible for our four-dimensional minds to comprehend whatever they are. but what God does is he says here let me give you on earth a family structure to not replicate but to mimic who I am you see in the Trinity you have God the Father

Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit in the family you have a husband you have a wife and you have a child okay so I think it's rather clear that the husband a man is not the equivalent, obviously, but the picture of Christ in that family structure. His wife is a picture of the Holy Spirit. Now, it's important to note that in the Trinity, the two persons of the Trinity,

there's three Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are equal. One isn't, you know, quote unquote, less powerful or so on than the other. They're equal, but their roles are different. So you have a husband and wife, one personifies Christ, one, or you know, mimics Holy Spirit. They have different roles, but they're equal in that regard. And then what does God do? And it's like, well, he creates life. That's who he is.

He is life. And he brings about that life in the form of humanity as part of his creation. Well, a husband and wife, what do they do? They create life. They create a child. And then the husband and wife. raise that child to become strong, to grow up into a mature adult who can then replicate the process. In the same way, you have the Trinity who creates life, man,

but in the case of Christ and the Holy Spirit, they create the church. Or they, you know, they shepherd the church, this child that they then nurture through the scriptures, through, you know, the help of the apostles and, you know, the Holy Spirit's, testimony and so on. And that church grows. The believer grows. He becomes stronger and stronger in the faith until he's a mature adult. And then he can go out and do the same and testify to the goodness of the gospel to more individuals all around the world. So those to the Trinity of God and the family structure. The family structure is just a picture of the Trinity. It's meant to be a testimony to others of the, in a sense, the nature of God and how he operates.

And so it would make sense that the Christian is so, um, holds the family in such high reverence because it's, it's part of the way that he testifies to the goodness of God and who he is. Because it's a picture of the divinity in heaven. So where you're, when you're watching, uh, when you're watching like what's going on in the world today, you know, like, I mean, I don't know, man, there's a lot. There's a lot going on.

Lots. So much. You know, like, certainly the, I just had Billboard Chris on the podcast just a couple ago. And he goes, you know, with his sign, and his kids can't consent to puberty blockers. And, you know, this gender ideology and all these different things. And that you can be, you know, whatever you choose and kids know, and all these, you know, these wild, wild things. Yeah. You know, and, and I don't know, it just goes on and on and on where we're at in society right now.

You know, to the point where, you know, I still remember thinking this when I'm sitting on the podcast, I'm like, oh, my God, did I just become a traditionalist? When did that happen? And I'm like, and when did that become so wild? Yes. You know, like, like I really believe in the family structure. Yes. Like before, you know, I'm like, before I do any, like, major decision, I'm like, am I hurting this unit? Because if I am, I can't do it.

Yes. And when I look at society, you know, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to paint the picture like that isn't out there. It certainly is. But it's definitely not being amplified anymore. Oh, no. Not at all.

It's this consequence of this sinful progressivism. That, yeah, says I am who I am. And I'm perfectly content. The problem with progressivism, we talk about it a lot. There's a lot of problems with it. But one of it is it selfishness. is it's demand that everyone serve you and that everyone accommodate you and that you get your way because you've made yourself the standard of right and wrong.

You've made yourself the reason for existence. You are your reason for existence and it completely, you know, it completely will collapse in on itself. But at any rate, the difference between that view of the world and a family, family is staggering. Now, of course, I'm not married. I don't have children, but from what I can tell, you know, the selflessness of parents and the family structure as a whole, but of parents in particular is, again, well, it's beyond comprehension what a father and a mother will do to make sure that their child flourishes, to make sure that they're safe, to make sure that they're well-fed

and cared for, and et cetera, et cetera, to have a better life than what, you know, they did growing up or what might have you. So the difference between the two views is, it's astounding. It's absolutely astounding. And, you know, if someone's wondering which view is better, it's like, well, just look at the results. You know, look at how society is in a progressive world versus one where the family structure is heralded as critical. Now, I'm not saying that that's a perfect society either. Of course not.

Sin still exists. But the differences are staggering. Yeah, there's, that's an uncomfortable, when I read, I'm going to go back to, I'm going to keep bringing screw tape letters back in this, because when I read that, there's a, they talk, you know, like, so you got these two, I don't know, demons talk to each other. Is that fair enough, basically? Yeah, sure. So you have, you know, the ones guiding the other demon. Yes, that's right. How to, how to basically win the soul about a human being. Exactly. And he's saying, you know, when boredom hits, in these different things and I would say new parents because when I look back at it is like and you want a shock to the system have a kid sure there's nothing in this world to compare you for that right so you're going to the lack of sleep the emotions you know you go from I'm just me personally right maybe maybe a lot more adults young adults just walk into it and are like I wasn't drinking

before and I wasn't going out and doing all these stupid things is a 20-year-old. Most of us can't say that. We're out doing stupid things. And then you get this shock of the system. You have this responsibility. And that's a hard wrestle. Like, how do I give up this former life so that I can,

everything you just said, because that's not an easy transition. You know, honestly, it's sometimes I think I'm still working on it. And saying that, there's nothing more rewarding than embracing that style of life. Right. And just being like, man, this is what life is now. I go to the rink and I coach some kids hockey and, you know, they want me to play catch in the back. Ain't nothing better than that. That beats afternoon beers any day of the week.

And I enjoy the odd afternoon beer folks. I'm not saying that I don't partake in some of those things. I'm no perfect human being here. But embracing that. Yeah. There's nothing that even remotely, like me and Vance Crowe have talked about this lots. He was a guy who waited until he was a little older to have his first kid. And he said he just didn't understand the change you would have.

immediately on day one once you start looking at a human being you've created, right? Like it's, for most of us, it's like instantaneous. Right. And then it's like, imagine the love of God. Imagine the love of Christ for his church. For, I mean, he's, you know, we are his children. So it's, it gives, again, it, you know, even, you know, the child, the human child gives his parents. And actually, it works both ways. It gives his parents or her parents a greater comprehension of just how much Christ loves

the church. And it does it for the child too, because of course, you know, properly raised, he knows when he makes mistakes. He knows when he does wrong or she knows when she does wrong. And yet to see the unconditional love of his or her parents, even if it takes 20 years or 30 years to see that, it will give the child a greater understanding of the patience, of the love that God has for the church. And so it works both ways. But it opens, and again, I don't have children. but based on what you're telling me, it opens the eyes of the parents. And again, to see,

just think about how much love Christ must have for his children, for his church. You know, because like any parent, he gives up his life for those. Now, what's interesting is that a parent gives up his life for his child. Okay, excellent. That's greater love hath no man than this, that a man should lay down his life, of course.

But Christ does it for those who are rebellious, for even those who hate him, for all of us, for sinners, for those who have explicitly rejected him, he does so in order that we might be redeemed. Yeah, but if you listen to screw tape, once again, you know what we're probably going to do, folks. You should start reading, what you should all start doing is,

is you start reading it. So then when me and Tanner, I have Tanner back out and talk about screw tape letters, you can understand exactly what we were talking about. Because once again, these two demons are talking about how to win the soul. Exactly. But he keeps warning him of the enemy, which is God. That's right.

You can never quite hear him, he says. That's right. And you never know what he's saying to him. That's right. And it's like, oh, that's beautiful. That is, anyways. The thing is, no matter how screwed up you get. Yep.

No matter how many things you do that are wrong. Yep. He still, and I just go back to your parallel thing. To me, it's like, he's still got the door just slowly open. And he's just seeing if it's almost like the 1030 train arrives and you still don't get on. So then it leaves. And it comes back again. And it leaves.

And it just keeps coming over and over again. No matter what you do. it just keeps coming and coming and coming. And finally you realize, I didn't notice there was a train there. I'm trying to get off this platform for how long you're up on. You're like, holy moly, right? Like, what is this?

Right. Now, okay, with that in mind, I would encourage your audience, also to read Hebrews 10. Hebrews is such a brilliant book. Hebrews is such an, you know, whoever wrote Hebrews, we don't know who wrote it, was just this brilliant author, brilliant. Anyways, so this author in Hebrews

in chapter 10 goes, okay, he says, listen up, basically. He says, of course, the patience of God is longstanding. And Paul says that in Romans 325 as well. He's like, you can't comprehend just how long suffering God's patience is with us. He's like as rebellious creatures. But anyways, then in Hebrews 10, the author goes, and it's in the later verses of Hebrews 10, the author goes, listen up, once you've heard the truth, or have heard it to a sufficient capacity. I'm using air quotes, whatever sufficient means. Once you've heard it,

if you continue to sin, he says, if you continue to reject that gospel, he says, you will reach a point where you can't be saved, where it's too late. So the doors, you know, I've heard a great quote once, and I can't remember who it was from, that basically compared the Holy Spirit to a bell. And he's like, the author of the quote goes, you take that bell and you, you push it with all your force. and the first clang is loud. The second clang is loud. Like big, big clangs. But the longer it rings, the softer it gets, the quieter it gets.

Until eventually, you've blocked that noise out of your mind. It's become synonymous with just existing. And for you, you can't hear it anymore. It's too late. Now, I don't know when that point is, but the Hebrews are clear about that. That's a very fascinating scripture, because even that almost seems to show that that paradox of you know I've done all these bad things I'm the thief on the cross but I can be saved but the Hebrew says once you hear it and you keep hearing it

and you still reject it again and again and again you become like Pharaoh your heart gets hard and you've been given over now so with saying that like screw tape is so brilliant it's such a brilliant book. I'm not saying it's theologically perfect. I'm not saying that I understand that either, but you know, at any rate. But here's the thing. This is what I keep and I, so I, I wouldn't, I come back to this lots, folks. I would have never talked about this. Right. Some of the odd things that have gone on in my life, especially in the last couple years, except the last couple years happened. And Sean just started, you know, like, well, we're talking about this. We might as to talk about what's going on, right? Yeah. And when you start reading screw tape, there's just something that's unnerving.

Oh, I agree. Because it's like, he says, oh, I'm not going to tell you how this happened because, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, to me, that makes a lot of sense. And if Sean had read that, I talk about, here at Cletus, quote about, you know, no man ever enters the same river twice because the man changes and so does the river. So when I look at the screw tape letters, and I'm reading that. And now, in fairness, it was written a J.R. Tolkien, who I got a lot of time for. And I told my wife that last night. So I'm like, it's like a little bit of a fan boy in me

and then I read the start of it and I'm like, oh, I get that. Right. That's Sean's experiences. No, I agree. So in the last two years, what Sean's gone through gets him to this point. He starts reading this and he goes, I just get this. I get what you're talking about. And certainly maybe what screw tape's trying to say is, is there's, you're, you know,

and I don't know why, you'll have to forgive me, I don't know why a platform is sitting there and that's what I'm thinking of. but you're sitting on the platform. Maybe there's two trains going both different directions. You hop on the one, where you go. You hop on the other, your opposite direction. But you still get off the next platform. Because Scrut tape talks about, you know, but he's still going to try and do his things.

Oh, yes. And he's going to try and show some things. He's going to try and put some thoughts in there. And you've got to keep muddling them up. And you've got to make them think that this is and everything else. And you're like, I actually really get that. That's not a very, it's very. freaking unnerving. I would love to talk to C.S. Lewis. Oh, I know. You know, to me, when I read it,

start reading it, I'm like, man, is there an interview out there of C.S. Lewis about screw tape letters and actually, because I'm like, he had to have had a couple personal experiences. Yeah. To pull either to have, like I just, when I read it, I guess, I don't go, that's his imagination. I go, that is far from his imagination. Oh, I know. It's, it's, um, in my opinion, it's one of the greatest satire's ever written. Like Lewis himself, there isn't, I I've never found an actual comment, like an interview with him talking about screw tape, but I know that he did say that that was the hardest book he ever wrote. He says, I never hoped to do that again.

He said, I was day after day plagued with, you know, this problem and that, trying to write that book. And in my opinion, that's spiritual warfare because, you know, if you're a demon, you wouldn't particularly want that book written because it's that profound. Now, you're too trained thing. That's interesting because I think of the prodigal son, where he, you have a, Jesus tells this story about this child who wants his father's inheritance early. He takes it.

He goes out and spends it and he's just a fool with him, right? You know, but he comes back. And the father doesn't shake his finger at him when he comes back. He doesn't reject him. He's like, welcome home, welcome home. And they have this massive party because the prodigal son has returned. Okay, that's one story. But then you read in Hebrew 6, 4 to 6.

The author goes, no one who has tasted God's, you know, forgiveness, who has seen the power of the Holy Spirit, who has done, who has seen all of these things of the Lord, who knows the gospel and who's had every opportunity to accept it, basically says there comes a point where eventually it's, it's it. That's, yeah, you've made your decision. You know, I go back to our last discussion and how I said, I don't like the Armageddon thing. but I also think when I hear you talking like that it's like you know for too long we've written weird things off as weird yeah I agree I completely agree and sorry to interrupt shame on the church

for that because there's this idea that you can't speak the whole truth because you have to try and bribe modern society who otherwise wouldn't believe it into your church it's nonsense just speak the truth and you know shame on any Christian for example, who reads about the wrath of God and then tries to, tries to neutralize it by using softer language or just glazing over it. It's like, I make no apologies for it. God says that abortion is a sin. I make no apologies for that. Yep.

Like, you know, far too often, a Christian will say that or something. And then the church will just try and softly diffuse the situation instead of just saying, this is what the scriptures say. that's what the scriptures say. You know, we have that power. We have that commission from Christ to do so. And that extends to what you say is weird. Or what you know, you know, what you're saying that we've written off things which are weird. I totally agree with you.

Excellent thought. Well, and to me, I take weird. I take strange. I take all these words because, you know, like, you come back from Ottawa. Strange things occurred. Right. And when you talk to faith-based people, They go, tell me all about it.

There's nothing strange about it, whatever. They already know. And you're like, so why isn't nobody talking about it? If you know all this, why isn't nobody talking? How many people in COVID? And maybe I'm like regurgitating exactly what I said last time, because it feels like deja vu. But like how many people last time when I started or people started talking and then they're like, oh my God, there's somebody else who thinks like me?

How many people right now are having all these weird, strange things go on? They have no idea. Yeah, yeah. At least Sean gets to have some people on to talk about it, because, like, the oddity of some things has been uncomfortable to say the least. Yes. And when I come back and I talk to different people about it, they're like, yeah, tell me about it. Oh, yeah, that's not strange at all.

You go, why not? Well, the same thing's happened to me, and they just talk about their experience. Okay, why is nobody talking about this? Oh, they'll call you crazy. I'm like, man, they already think we're crazy for, like 15 other things. Like, they already think you're crazy for thinking there's two genders. Yeah, right? They do.

I mean, so how would we just get a little more crazy in the world then? We just start talking about it. Yeah. Because, like, you know, there's just some odd stuff going on. Oh, yeah. And I don't even need to look to the rest of the world. I can just look at my own life and be like, man, you know, like once upon a time, I thought it was just like, well, I go back to agnostic.

I just, there's no way. Yeah. Right. Science has got this all figured out. Yeah. We're so smart. Yeah. Carry on life.

And then you realize, man. Guys, maybe not. Yeah. Like this is, this is so much larger than what I thought it was, which is quite unnerving for, for me. And I bet for a lot of people to, like, wrestle with that thought. And that doesn't come overnight. Most people don't just go, oh, yeah, okay, and let's move on, right? Like, you've got to wrestle with that for some time.

Yeah. Oh, yes. You've got a, you have a great point here. And I would add, what isn't strange in our world? What isn't miraculous? You know, let's take gravity, for example. Our modern world thinks that because we quote unquote understand so much about gravity, even though it seems like we really don't, it's not that mysterious.

It seems, you know, we tend to believe that the more we understand something, the less miraculous it is, the less interesting and massive it is. You know, if we can shrink it down to our size and understand it, then it becomes not as impressive, not as magical is the word. And it's like, that's not true at all. The more, now, of course, I'm not a physicist, but in my spare time, I'll watch a video on how gravity works or try to comprehend how gravity works.

And it's like, even though maybe I understand a little bit more than I did 20 minutes ago, it's now far more mysterious and magical and miraculous than what it was before. You know, this idea that the more you understand something, the smaller it becomes,

I think it's exactly backwards. It should be the opposite. It should be that... It is the absolute opposite. Right. And so, you know, what's happened is, we get used to what's repetitive, we think that because something repeats,

it's automatically a law, like a law of gravity, but that's really not what a law is at all, right? A law is something logical. It's something that can actually be broken. It's something that, you know, so 2 equals 2, or A equals A as a law, but 2 equals 3 is a breaking of that law. You know, I would say that a law itself

is something which can exist in multiple, universes and still be comprehensible. So if you live in Tolkien's world or you live in this world, two still has to equal two. You know, it still has to be that A equals A. If that isn't true, then you can't even tell Tolkien's story, for example. If you go to Tolkien's world and A equals B, then that world doesn't exist because it doesn't, you can't logically comprehend it. It doesn't work. In both worlds, both have to equal the same thing. But in Tolkien's world maybe, a tree can talk, You stole the thought right from my head. I'm like, what about the ants?

Right, nothing wrong with that. Because nothing is violated there. It's just a different sort of creation. Now, okay, so then with regards to like gravity, you know, people think that because we see gravity so often, it's this law. No, it's something remarkable. It's something mysterious. It's miraculous because it can, well, not that again, I'm not a physicist,

but I can see it working differently in a different universe, no problem. So what I mean to say, what I mean to say in that whole thought is we think that because something repeats, it's, you know, it's boring. It's figured out. No, it's the opposite. It's something incomprehensible. So when you talk about strange things, it's like, or people talk about strange things, it's like, well, is it any more strange in the fact that the leaves are green or that, you know, that apples go on trees? But the reason it's more strange is we, that's become, not mundane. I mean, that, you know, I know what you mean. But it's every. But it's every. But it's. Every day. You see this green leaves and you think nothing of it. Absolutely. And that's why I return to my point of I think we should be more like little children. Because for children, those things like apples on trees are some, it's remarkable. Well, get on a plane and see it and feel it take off and then look out and go. Yeah. Think of the feet that we are a part of. Oh yeah. Yeah. If people, if we could just, you know, stop and look at the world. If you could just open your eyes, you know, as a human being. If you could just open your eyes, like not you specifically, but if we as a society, you know, you know, if we as a society, you know, you know, you know, as a human being. If you could just open your eyes, like not you specifically, but if we is a society. You. You can. You can. You can. You can. You can. If we. If we. If we. If we could just stop and just see and just for a moment say think about how miraculous it is that you know what the water in canaanascus is that emerald blue leaves you speechless but you know because we are used to it or seeing it online almost every day we just kind of start passing over it and it loses its luster even though it need not so so then to bring it all back to your strange thoughts you're exactly right we call them strange in today's age because

From our perspective, they don't happen very often. And, okay, so they actually don't. Like, you know, like these quote unquote strange things. But, but. They don't happen that often to the same person. Right. Or that you can see. Right.

All over the place. All over the place. Yes. And we just don't tie them together because nobody talks about it. Right. But as soon as you start talking about it, you're like, you know, like I just, I got a cent. No, I didn't get sent. I go on YouTube.

I thought this was very strange. I have to say that for more. I'm looking for, you know, I love a good movie. And I haven't, I was thinking, I was like, all right, you know, I was sitting at home, waiting for the barbecue to kick on. I'm like, you know, I haven't watched a movie trailer a long time. And as a kid, especially in high school, back when Apple first had like, it's first, I don't know what it was, but they had beautiful computers.

And there used to be this website they had with all the movie trailers that were coming up. I watched The Hobbit, or sorry, the first Lord of the Rings trailer probably 100,000 times. Like, I knew the entire thing. but I was so like I can't wait for this movie anyways So I'm like I haven't I have no idea what movies are coming up So anyways I you know I watch I can't even remember which ones I watched I just watched a couple

And then it was the guy who played Jesus in the Passion of the Christ Mel Gibson's Yeah yeah what's Jim Jim What is? Is that what it is or something? Yeah yeah yeah yeah so he's he's talking about getting struck by lightning on set Have you seen this? And I'm like what?

Mm-hmm. Like, what? Mm-hmm. And I don't think he's just being interviewed in a nonchalant way, and he's going, yeah, yeah, I got struck by lightning. Yeah. And then another guy on the sack got struck by lightning. Yeah, probably isn't coincidental. And you're like, what?

Yep. But, of course, you know, the doubting, yeah, it is the doubting. The doubting world is so quick to call it coincidence. Not even coincidence. Ah, that couldn't have been lightning. Or that could have been lightning. How the hell does a guy survive getting struck by lightning? and then another one and nobody's talking about this.

What? Or, you know, it's just like, but there it is. And I'm like, that's interesting. It makes me want to interview a ton. It makes me want to interview Mel Gibson now. We were talking about Mel Gibson. Everybody wrote him off as this crazy guy. And now I'm like, wait a second,

is this the same mainstream media that just sold me everything else? It's like, chances are Mel Gibson would be a fantastic interview. Who made Passion of the Christ. And I know I'll get a bunch of texts about it, telling me that, you know, this and this and this and this about the movie. But anyways, straight, it just, there it is. It's just another little, you know, they can be subtle little things in your day to day. I think, man, what a beautiful way maybe to look at life where every day you step out your front door and you don't know where your feet are going to take you.

That's the hobbit, right? Yes. And you're like, that's a, that's actually a pretty profound thought because the truth of the matter is, he's like, yeah, maybe you had a crummy it. day yesterday. None of them are going to be perfect. No. But you wake up and you just have no idea of the possibilities a day has in front. And I say that a lot because of the different people I get to sit with. But I mean, in saying that, every person that you interact with, you could make a profound interaction for you or for them and they needed that. Yes. And you have no idea of your capabilities. Yes. Well, see, and that's, okay, so what does Christ say in Matthew 6, 33 and 34? He's like, take no thought for the most.

for tomorrow, because tomorrow will have problems for itself. He's like, just worry about your next step. Just worry about today. So every day becomes this new adventure. What's going to happen? I don't know. I'm excited, though. Who knows what will happen in four hours?

Not a clue. I have some plans, but maybe something drastic changes. Maybe I get a call from an NHL scout. No, I'm not getting a call from an NHL scout, but you know what I mean? Maybe I get a call from so-and-so that I have to go down to Calgary right now as fast as I can because something massive is waiting there for me. or maybe I have a relaxing evening at home.

I don't know. And both can be great. And both can be great. You know, I used to think, well, I'm not used to think. I got like a, like I think they called it wanderlust, right? Like I love traveling. I love seeing new places, experiencing new things. So settling down, putting roots down, I was tough on me and Mel for that matter, right?

Like we both enjoyed traveling and seeing the world and we still get to travel. It's not, you know, you can have an adventure going half an hour to any, direction you take. Yes. There's plenty of the world you've not seen in your own backyard. Yes. But, you know, like, it's funny, you can have, like, little adventures every single day if you just put your mind in the right spot. You put it in the right spot, anything can become an adventure. The city of Lloyd can become an adventure if you really want. There's probably things me and you both have not experienced in the city that if we really searched out, we could. Yes. It took me going to Ottawa to feed the homeless for the first time of my life. I never, I never, I never, I,

That's a profound experience. Yes. Oh, and that just turns, that, that returns to my point of if, if society, if you could just open your eyes to the miracle even of your backyard, then life becomes so much larger. You know, it's what I've, so I lived in Calgary for a while, and maybe I'll move back there. Who knows? But right now I'm here. What I learned, though, one of the things I learned while living there was just how much larger life is actually in smaller towns. because it's interesting.

You find that individuals in small towns love their lives and where they live and their community and are satisfied with it to a capacity that far eclipses those in the massive centers in the big big cities. It seems like those individuals, or at least some of them, a lot of them, and the big cities are moved there because they want to move to the big city

and they want to feel more important and they want to seek out, you know, these big, big adventures. But in doing so, not that seeking adventure is wrong, but it's like they're never quite satisfied with where they are because they're always looking for something greater. Whereas the individual in the small community says, I like it here. I like my friends.

I like my family. I like that I can see people at coffee every day. And as a consequence of that patriotism, their life becomes so much larger and they enjoy it to a far higher degree. And they live it to a greater degree. than what so many others do. It's funny, I don't know why I'm having this thought, but I was talking to a young guy from St. Louis

who's got a podcast starting up, or it started up, but he was asking for some different things. Anyways, he asked me about a strategic plan, and, you know, like, where do I want to be in five years? And I was like, it's an interesting question, right? Like, where do you want to be in five years? And I was surprised by my own answer. Because I was like, you know, I've thought a lot about no matter what the podcast does,

if it takes me away from my family, it's not worth doing anymore. So I've really grounded it if you would. I'm probably missing opportunity after opportunity right now. But the first core belief I have is like if my family doesn't come along for the ride, it's not worth it. Right. Just doesn't. Yes.

And so he goes, where do you want to be in five years? And I'm like, well, don't get me wrong. I don't want to still be podcasting. but I want my family to be healthy and, you know, if it's called to be bigger, chances are my wife is going to tell me something that it's like, okay, I'll go do it. It sounds odd to say that out loud, but I'm just like, that's where I'm at. And I'm pretty happy with that, to be honest, right? Doesn't mean I'm going to stop podcast.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to bring people on. Doesn't mean we're not going to talk about Alberta election. And at some point on this little chat, we're going to talk about Lloyd. Yeah. But the truth of the matter is, it surprised even me when he asked because, you know, I thought, about it a lot like I think about it a lot yeah but I never been asked question how do you know the answer until you spit it out you're like oh yeah I guess you know like my five-year plan is I want my health my family to be healthy right I want me to be a part of it right

and that's a far more profound thing that's and and fulfilling goal than so many entrepreneurs you know big city downtown executives will ever or at least at this point I'm can understand I remember reading Brett Wilson this book And, you know, I hate to paraphrase because, you know, there might be something in there that I'm skipping over. But he talked about how busy he was, you know, chasing the career, money, everything else. And he'd go to work so early in the morning. He talked about his kids being asleep on the door so that he'd have to wake him to go to, like, I never want that. Like, don't remember wrong.

I don't want to sit idly by and miss opportunities and everything. But at the same time, I don't want that. Right. Like that's heartbreaking or he even talked about it. Yeah, that was a set, you know. Yes. And I don't want to have that regret. No.

A great book to read is the Ecclesiastes because the Ecclesiastes is written from a point of view of basically this wise old teacher. You know, you can just imagine him kind of smoking a pipe or a cigar kind of thing with a turtleneck on. And he's lived this life. And now he has all these lessons from life. And he wants to tell his students, right, if he called a teacher, the students. how to live their lives so they avoid making the same mistakes that he did. And so one of the things in the first few chapters of Ecclesiastes that the teacher talks about is how, it's like I pursued money.

I pursued all of these things and I got rich. He's like, I got all of these things and he's like, it's vain. It just goes up like smoke. He's like, it's there for a while, but it's mysterious. I tried to grab it. I thought I did grab it. I had it. And then when I opened my hand, smoke had vanished.

Or it was just a whist away. and now he's like it goes to my deadbeat kid who's going to waste it so what good was it you know like what it talks about is just you know it's a very if you read ecclesiastes alone of course there's wisdom but you have to read it in light of christ too otherwise he'll go well i guess life kind of sucks um anyways you read that you read that those passages and basically the teacher goes you look for meaning in money in wealth in stature in society in prevalence in fame, et cetera. He's like, it's all meaning. It's all in the grand scheme of eternity and life. It's meaningless. You know, so like, yeah, you're right. It is tragic that Mr. Wilson's kids were sitting at the door waiting for him to try,

you know, so he'd wake him up so that they could see him for three or four seconds before he left. You know, he's like in the grand scheme of things. He's like whether, you know, that ecclesiastes, the teacher goes, he says, on the one hand, you have someone like me who made a lot of money or who made a lot of money. He's like, I was never happy because I was always stressing about it. I was always worried about it. I was working for it, et cetera. He's like, then you see the family man who maybe didn't have as much wealth as I did.

But he certainly enjoyed life far more than I did. And so he's like, I regret it. Well, what do you need to enjoy life? Right. Well, okay, so as a Christian, I say, you need Christ to enjoy it to its fullest. But what does God give? Gives marriage, family, the simple pleasures. I mean, he gives all, but but the individual who can enjoy,

those simple things at life, morning coffee at coffee row, a hockey game, coaching your kids, you know, going to the parade in July, a week camping, a nice meal, a nice brunch with, you know, friends and family, that's life, that's life. And so it's a far more, it's a far more exciting adventure than what the media would make it out to be or what, you know, all of these activists make it out to be. Hey, well, somewhere in there, and I don't, I'm, somewhere in there, it's like the only way to have fulfillment in life is to have the riches and be Uber famous.

Right, right. And don't give me wrong. You know, like, Sean doesn't want to sound like he doesn't want to be successful. Right. Part of success is the podcast, having people listen to it and join it and getting great interviews and everything. else. Yes. But if you don't have the other stuff, it is worthless. It really is. I can't imagine being, you know, I don't know, the Matthew McConaughey of podcasting, right? Where you walk down

the street and everybody wants to come talk to you, but you don't have the other part. You don't have the other part. It ain't worth it. I think of Brian Cranston an awful lot. Yeah. He, uh, somewhere in there, the guy from Breaking Bad, I'm talking, he had an interview about how he was dealing with fame because he got famous at a later age. And I, I, I, don't quote me on his age. But the question was something along the lines of, you know, someone like Britney Spears, Justin Bieber, who got famous, why was he so different? He's like, oh, I just assume it's because I'm older,

and I just don't care what people think. You know, like he's already lives check of life. He's like, I'm not looking at Facebook to see what people think of me, you know? Don't get me wrong. Him being, because he's Uber famous as well, right? I can't imagine Brian Cranston walking down the streets of Lloyd. That'd be something. Right.

But, you know, if it comes for people, it comes. And I almost shouldn't worry about it because it's like, it's put in the work. create your foundation, build your house on the bed of rock, not on the sand. You know, when the storm comes, whatever that storm is, you'll be able to withstand it and with the right people around you. Right. And see like, okay, so again, the Ecclesiastes 3, verse 11, the teacher goes, he's like, listen, you have to understand that in the human heart has been set, nothing less than eternity itself. You and I as humans crave eternity. We crave something which, it's a, it's, you know, Individuals pursue riches.

People pursue fame. Those things are finite. Those things aren't eternal. One day the money will rot. One day you'll be, you know, as a famous individual, you'll be forgotten. You know, no one remembers who the greatest actor was in Shakespeare plays in the 1700s. I don't know. You know, two people might, maybe, and even then.

But instead, the teacher goes, you actually have eternity in your heart. You want something which is eternal. nothing less will satisfy. Nothing less will quench your thirst. That's why it's so profound when Christ says in that verse in John 6, 35 to 40, drink from, you know, I am the water of life. He's like, you can drink from wealth, you can drink from fame, you can drink from fortune, you can drink from health. He's like, you'll be left thirsty because it might quench your thirst for a second or two, but you'll just need some more water. You'll get thirsty again. And it'll never fully quench your thirst for meaning, for long.

longing for love. He's like, until you drink of me, only then will you be supremely fulfilled. Now, again, you can get like almost, I get pictures, like the love of a family. But he's like, only I will fully satisfy. Only I will truly satisfy. Yeah, there's, I'll say this. I've been searching for something to kickstart my love of books again. You know, it's just taking some time.

I don't know what it is. Anyways, and I never would have thought, and I don't know this sounds stupid to a lot of people to say aloud and to other people, they're like, really? Anyways, it doesn't matter. I never thought the Bible would be the kickstart because, you know, like I picked it up and I thought, oh, just read Jesus' words.

You know, like, if you're going to read somebody's words, why not? That's very easy. You just go to the red stuff and, oh, there it is, boom. Okay, yep, all right, sounds good. And yet you don't get the story. No. And the story is like, Once you start, you're like, oh, this is, you know, like,

because everybody, for the most part, understands the story, right? Right. Virgin mom, goes and does a little bit of, you know, talking to people, ends up on the cross, rises from the dead, life goes on. You know, I'm being a little bit tongue and cheek here, but at the same time, I'm trying to lay it out pretty much how it is. What you miss is, like, the entire story. Yeah.

Like all these different things, and you're like, and some of the wisdom put in there and some of the parables in here. And the thing is, is like, was that last time, you read a book. Now I'm saying that, I'm reading screw tape letters again, and it certainly is doing this to me right now. But when was the last time you read a book where you had to put it down several times to sit and think about their words and what they're actually saying? And the only one that comes to mind is Jordan Peterson's 12 rules to life for me. That book for me so many times, but I mean it's literally talking about the Bible and half of it where I sit down, I drop it,

and I'm like, I got to think about that. Like that's a profound thought. The Bible does it, well, I just did it again this morning, right? And you're just sitting there and like, huh. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I don't know of another book like that. Yeah. No, I totally agree with you.

The profundity of the scripture is unchallenged, unmatched. And the difference, you know, my world, not my worldview. What I believe is that, okay, some individuals say the Bible is a truth among many. My belief is no, no. The Bible is truth. And all other truths spring from it. So, when I hear someone make a claim, I test that claim against Scripture. It's not just that the Bible is the truth among, you know, on a bookshelf that I can just one day pick up and choose.

I say, no, the scripture is that foundation which is holding up the bookshelf. That is the foundation. That is the test. That is the rock upon which all other things are either true or false. If a man makes a claim and it harmonizes logically with the scripture, it's true. true. If he makes a claim and it doesn't, it's false. That's the profundity of the scripture. It's the foundation. Have you ever read, you know, I was thinking, what's, I had one other book that's actually, it might be my favorite book of all time, actually. Very

close. Victor Frankel? No. Never. Um, man's search for meaning. He was, um, here, here's the, here's the, here's the, here's the, here's the, one of the quotes that I liked. Everything can be taken from a man, but one thing. The last of the human. freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances to choose one's own way and he was essentially another one was those who have a why or to live can bear with almost any how but I want to find here let me give me just a second there's gonna be come on folks that's why I typed in the wrong thing let's see if I can get it here Victor Frankel was a Jewish Austrian sacred

Psychiatrist who founded Logotherapy, a school of psychotherapy that describes a search for a life's meaning as a central human human motivational force. But he's a psychologist, psychiatrist, part of me, that goes through the Holocaust and chooses to because his family is there. Right. And his book walks you through that, how they, you know, they're like skin and bones and they're still having theological discussions. he talks about how he should have been dead, but something guides him through. Right. And it's a wonderful account of human beings and their resiliency to the worst atrocities man has to do on man. Right.

Oh, yeah, the depravity of the human heart knows no bounds. You know, it's those, well, of course, I mean, we know about the Holocaust. We don't even, no, we know about the Holocaust, but we don't know even the surface of the horrors that, occurred at the Holocaust, but you know, you see what happens when man, human being made in God's image is treated like less than an insect, like an animal, and the atrocities that other humans are capable of committing against those individuals made in the image of God, equal with those who are tormenting them, is, again, beyond comprehension. I'm sure it's a fascinating book. It's even when we hear stories from back then, we can't,

We have a hard time putting it into reality. That makes sense. You know, I interviewed George. There's a George, man, Gerald. Gerald Gronin. He was the 97-year-old who was from Holland, who was on a cattle car. He wasn't Jewish. He was part of the Underground Railroad and talks about the priest being,

or the pastor of the priest, one or the two, being taken out and never came back. Sure. You understand what he's talking about. And you're just like, it's like one of those moments in my podcasting experience, we're like, please never stop talking, just keep going. I don't know how I got in this room. I don't know how this happened. And just don't stop.

And I don't know what the audience thinks of the entire experience, but I just know where my feet were. And just being like, this is, I think this, does this man have 10 more years? Does he get three more years? It doesn't matter. His story is going to be lost. And even right now, I don't know if I fully understand. understand loading a group of people and treating them like cattle. Right.

And, you know, certainly for a lot of us, you know, how bad it got was mentally devastating. I don't know if it was, well, I mean, I know for sure it wasn't the cattle car scenario. Right. Certainly there was exclusion and everything else over the last three years, but not nearly to that escalation, I think. I say that and then I hesitate because I'm trying to think, you know, like, did we ever get close did we ever do anything to that extent i don't think we did we certainly there was talk of different quarantine facilities and different things like that there's quarantine hotels and i'm like actually the more i think about it i think it was quebec where they had the quarantine

facility and the lady was sexually molested or harassed or you know by one of the security guards and like it ain't that funny i mean we're not you have to be so proactive in ensuring nothing like that ever happens. Like you can't in these, you know, as last three, four years showed us so clearly, you can't react. You have to act. You have to be proactive. So what did you think? You know, we've been going now. And I have people. I, this is what I love about podcasting, right? I don't know. Screw tape letters got me all thinking about something, you know? Yeah. You went to the city council meeting on April 24th, right? Yes. Yes. This is a perfect transition. What did you think? of of well a I sat beside one of the guys I sat in the media spot because there was

nowhere to sit I got there and I'm like oh yeah crap it's great great I got a podcast can I sit in the media yes okay so I sat down in the media so I could at least have a spot and a seat to hear but they said it's the most people they've ever seen before okay that's a good thing yep you know yep what did you think so after the first five books of the Bible Genesis X Let us of it, Leviticus numbers, Deuteronomy, comes a book called Joshua. I think you'd love the book of Joshua. The first.

The thing I'm learning from you, Tanner, is I'm like, man, don't race through the Bible. But you got lots of days ahead of you where you're going to enjoy just as much as you're enjoying now. Because he keeps rattling off books, folks, and I'm on my fourth. I'm on my fourth book. I'm like, oh boy. Anyways, carry on. Anyways, the book of Joshua. Okay.

So the Israelites have just concluded their 40-year wandering in the wilderness. Moses has died. God's buried Moses. The people mourned for Moses. Now it's time to cross the River Jordan. I'm looking at your table and it has this epoxy. Just like that. Cross over from one side to the other and go take the land which the Lord has given you.

Moses's successor is named Joshua. And when you read the book of Joshua and just who he was, you realize how ruthless a military commander this man had to be in order to complete the task that the Lord had given him. Okay, so the Israelites cross over into the land God gave them. They cross over the Jordan. It actually parts like the Red Sea and they cross over. And then they begin their conquest. And it's a ruthless conquest.

And Joshua goes quick for the jugular. He goes for Jericho, this huge, massive city, you know, big city. and we know the story, you know, shout and God says shout and the city collapses and they take Jericho. After that, after this... Is it show or do they blow the trumpets? Well, trumpets in both. The men shout and the trumpets are blown.

Yeah, it's both. Seven, seven days? Seven, seven, yeah. It's funny how these stories I still, anyways. Absolutely, seven, sevens. They love that. God loves seven. Anyways, after that great victory, you know, they have to fight some more battles.

There are still more enemies that they have to clear out. So along comes, you know, another challenger. Joshua sends out spies to say, you know, scout them out. Let's see what we need. Spies come back. They go, group's not too big. Don't send out everybody. A small force will do and we'll conquer this group.

So Israel goes and Joshua leads and they get hammered. Like they lose bad. So Joshua comes back, tears his clothes. He's like, what's going on? Lord, he prays. And God's like, what are you doing on your face, Joshua? You have devoted things in your midst. What I mean to say is some of your soldiers, or one of your soldiers in particular,

disobeyed the commands that I gave you. And they took the spoils of war from Jericho that they shouldn't have, and they've hidden it. And because of that, now I'm no longer, you know, with you when you fight. So you have to, this is Joshua 7. You have to consecrate yourselves. The whole nation has to consecrate itself. Be renewed. Purify yourself.

get rid of that junk, which is in your tribes, and then go back again. I'll be with you once again. And so I think this whole situation is just like that. With regard to the actual meeting, and you'll see how I bring this around in a moment, I was so encouraged by how many individuals were there and the passion with which they spoke and the clarity with which so many of them spoke, I'm talking about the citizens and so on, and their dedication to see that this development plan be radically changed or moved or, you know, stalled what might have you.

What I was, what I was interested in was, or what I, what seemed to be revealed was just how, from my eyes, you can't have anything which is devoted to evil in your midst. In my opinion, that includes this development plan. I read it with all the climate science, climate change, climate resilience. I think it's hideous. I have no use for it whatsoever. And so if it were up to me, if I were the counselors, I would say, it's gone. It has to go because it's something which is devoted not to good, but to this new Orwellian plan, which I have no tolerance for.

So with regards to the people, I was very encouraged. councilness might be happening in other districts too, I thought wasn't strong enough. I wanted to see something more resolute, and I understand, you know, play politics and these things. But you look at Joshua, and there is no, there is no, let's sit on counsel for X number of months and debate and discuss. When God says, get that devoted thing out of your midst, Joshua says, yes, sir, or yes, Lord, it's going. and so they do and then they win. You know, the whole, like that whole book of Joshua really opened my eyes to just how, again, you have to as a leader act.

You can't react. You can't be passive. In our age, the time for passive leadership is gone. There never was a time for passive leadership, but especially now, the time to sit on one's heels and be apathetic is over. Now it's time to be active. now it's time to take charge and clean out whatever isn't conducive to righteousness so that the city or the province or the nation might flourish. That's that's my conviction and Josh was so clear about it.

It's interesting. I am. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I was going to say the more you, the more you like search out. Yep. You know, and it's hard because if you have not read anything, and I don't mean to say take the Bible out of it,

that sounds really, really dumb in a sense, but I'm like, if you take the biblical sense out of what you just talked about, and you just come back to the actual document, it doesn't read, if you haven't read anything, been through some things, then you read it and you're like, that seems, you know, a couple things,

you know, the passive surveillance. What is that? Well, you got the big thing, well, you got a cell phone at monitors anyway,

he's got all these things, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, yeah, I can kind of get, oh, okay,

for it. But if you've done, not five minutes, and I don't mean to put it that way, it's just, it's a slippery slope. Oh, yes.

And the door is open. Yes. And at this point, like, I don't want to talk about the web, Yeah, I know. But at the UN or the 2030 or the blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm tired of hearing about it.

Except it's like, but kind of just look how it's going and understand. And, you know, like I was there, you know, I was sad to leave because I wanted to be for the entire thing. Yeah, I had to leave early too, yeah. But I went back and I watched, like I missed Rod Sellers talking. And, you know, I'd heard he went and talked. I was like, oh, interesting because Rod, I got to interview for the, podcast. Right. You know, and he he hit the nail on the head right at the start. Now, don't get me wrong. It doesn't mean I feel like as a community we have to find some way

to enter to involve both sides because I look at it and I go I don't think we need to attack the council. I think we just need to make them understand. But when you open them up to this big picture, WF is controlling it in China and all these things and you're like my brain can explode. Right. It isn't that bad folks. It's a city plan. We needed one. We're up there. We're up dating, it's not the big thing. And when you put it that way, you're like, oh, that doesn't sound so bad, except for when you've been exposed to the rest, but you're like, but wait a second, this is the whole flipping thing right here, right?

Right. So Rod, oh, good point. So Rod goes, you know, the first thing that sticks out to me is he goes, it says it's a citizen's plan. He goes, I don't, I think right there, that's a lie. And the thing is, is in democracy, you know, like, how many people, do you know how many people went there to advocate for, said that they liked it? You mean, oh, in that, in that meeting?

Yeah. I didn't hear one. They had one. They had one. Yeah. And he said, my sense is the documentation needs revision. He talked about a bunch of different things. In my opinion, it doesn't mean that he wasn't, it hasn't lived in Lloyd long.

He's been in since 2015. Was this the first guy? No, it was the last guy. So they said if you're against it, come speak. And so that's where like four hours of people coming up and voicing and saying, I don't like this. I don't like this. I don't like this.

I don't like this. One person gets up to speak. And he's been in Lloyd since 2015. Now, I don't mean that folks is a bad thing. If you've only been in Lloyd three years, it doesn't matter. I just found it was long-term retic, a ton of long-term residents, like Rod Sellers. Like, how long-term residents? Yeah, yeah.

It was a lot of long-term residents saying we don't like this. Yeah. I found it interesting. The one person to speak was only since 2015, which eight years is long enough. I just pointed it out because it's something I wrote down. And he said, there doesn't seem to be. He listed off a bunch of things he liked about it. And he was talking about accessibility, bike lanes,

or not bike lanes, sorry, bike paths from getting around communities. I think a lot of us understand. I got kids, I've read the bike paths too. Right. But he said, even a guy who's supporting it said, there doesn't seem to be broad-based community support for this plan. My sense is the documentation needs revision. I'm like, so at the entire meeting,

whether you liked everything and how they presented and were they, you know, one of the things, there was a little bit of, there was an atmosphere in that place that was at times uncomfortable. I really like when people are respectful to the entire group. You got a group of people up there.

Do I think Mayor Jared Elber's is like the king of evil? No. This is the most ridiculous thing ever. He's in a position that's, you know, if you don't want him in, then I suggest actually what he said.

Get active and find something to run against them. I mean, like it's politics, folks. But there is a way, to present yourself in there that is conducive and respectful to what's going on there. Yes. And saying that, I sat beside a guy who was against everything everybody was saying, and he was just as disrespectful. I'm like, man, this goes both ways right. Right, right. This is odd. Yes. Right. You got a bunch of group concerned citizens that are trying, they're given their opportunity. They use it. They used it like, you know, I thought like, honestly, I wasn't sure how many people

were going to speak. I was thinking about five, seven. No, I know. Like, you know, four hours later, they're still sitting there. You're like, people are concerned. Yeah. To me, if I I was sitting on the council, what I try I'm not. Yeah. But if I was, right there, you have to take a step back, which I assume they will do. I have a lot of faith. And I know a lot of people are like, they won't, they won't, and they're going to just rent and blah, blah.

To me, I'm like, you know, I, I listen to Jason White and say multiple times. I'm going to commit to looking in the passes of surveillance. You know, we're not here to run over people's freedoms and stuff. I don't want that either, you know, and I'm like, I have no reason not to believe that group of people. There, a lot of them are from Lloyd, have been here a very long time. So to me, I'm like, as a community, this is the problem. We have to find a way to come together. Everything wants to pull us apart. They want us shooting at each other. They want to make it so, us to make it so ridiculous that the other side can't understand. They just push it through and we're all

mad at each other. That's the outside world. To me, I'm like, we're community. We want what's best for Lloyd. I don't know the right way about that, but there has to be a way. I mean, and I was just absolutely amazed at how many people came out. I think it's awesome. Yes. And I think they should think that too. And I think they do. Yes.

You know. Well, and so your comment about unity, I agree. How do you unify? The answer is in truth. If, you know, okay, so I go back, not go back, but you look at what the UCP, our Alberta, you know, government talked about over the last, how many years, five, whatever it was, four or five years. I guess, yeah, four or five years. And for a good stretch of that, they were talking about the un-reterterter, you know,

unity of the UCP. Need to unify. Need to unify. And it's like, okay, but you have to unify in truth first. That's, um, you look at actually the Trinity. You go back to that, Jesus Christ, God, the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is unification in diversity. Unity in diversity. It's a university. It's a sort of university. So if you don't unify in truth, the unity is meaning. Well, and I mean, and, and so unity has become a hollow word for a lot of people because exactly the UCP. Yes. Because of Jason

Kenny, because of the fact it's like, listen, can we just say what's going on right now? It's crazy. Instead of trying to we have to pander

to everyone. Yes. It's like, let's just call it out for what it is. Like, we're in strange la-la land, but nobody's allowed to talk about it. Yep.

And we're just going to keep moving along. And then we're going to talk about union, how we have to all be unified, but we're not going to talk about what's going on because we want to win

the political game. Yes. And it's like, I get what you're saying there. Yeah. And to me, You know, like that, that does have a lot of weight.

Like, at what point, but, you know, I come back to Daniel Smith. When she got elected as a USP later, what did she do? She came out on first press conference and said the unvaccinated been the most discriminated people I've ever witnessed something on the lines. And everybody lambasted her. You know, it's like, politics is ruthless. Politics is ruthless. Media is ruthless. Merciless.

Now, okay. Now, now, with regards to citizens, pushing their purpose. politicians that I like they you know um because again it's so easy to be apathetic it seems as an individual in power where it's easy to say yeah we'll take a look at this or yeah we'll take a look at that and then of course it gets dragged down in bureaucracy and months and months passed by and well you know you I mean we know well and the thing I hate hearing in a but I don't know this so this is why I started going is how many times you say well that's a federal thing that's a provincial thing we don't answer to that you got to go talk to these people yeah that's deflection and everything

else and I know there's a reason why that is because this is why our system and you I assume agree with me is so clever yes because nobody nobody can own him to well I didn't do that they did that no no no I didn't do that they did that exactly well who's making the decisions around exactly that's the story of big brother who's big brother no one no one no really knows no one no no no no has a clue he's just this face this must this guy with a mustache ever seen him no but there he is it's like it's this hydra of a system. This is why I love Jesus Christ or part of the reason why. Because it's like, who is Christ?

Here he is. There he is. Here are pages and pages and pages and pages of description of who he is and what he does. And so, you know, when I'm sick, I don't go to Christ and then he sends me to a bureaucrat. You know, Christ doesn't send his secretary out to go die on the cross. It's like he does it. It's him. That's who he is. and he gives you a vivid image and picture of exactly how he leads,

exactly what he's like, exactly what he's going to do, and the foundation is himself. The same thing with Joshua. You know, you look at all these Old Testament characters, Joshua, Moses, David, Daniel, Nehemiah, etc. They all personify some trait of Christ. It's like their blurry images of the nature of Christ. So you look at, for example, the obedience of Joshua and actually the ruthlessness of Joshua to root out what is evil.

It's like that's a picture of Christ, of who Christ is. Because when it comes to, you know, battling the spiritual forces, Christ takes no prisoners. He's ruthless. And when it comes to completely emancipating evil, same thing as Joshua. Christ is ruthless. There is no room for sin. There is no room for evil. All of it's gone.

So when God tells Joshua, you know, there's something devoted in your midst. What I mean is one of your soldiers has taken something from Jericho that they shouldn't have. And it's basically poisoned the entire nation of Israel. Joshua doesn't go, let me delegate that to a bureaucrat or let me delegate that to someone else. No, he's like, I see to it personally. And so the next morning they go out. This is the story. And actually, the way they did it is they cast lots, dice.

or like dice. And God said, I will show you using this process of who's got the, who has the devoted things. And so it, you know, they cast the dice and eventually this man name, I think it's, well, it's ACAN or is it, whether it's ACAN or ACAN, whatever, comes out. And Joshua says, what have you done? And ACAN goes, I took the gold or silver or, you know, I have the devoted things. I hid them and they're in my house. And Joshua says, now it's time for judgment because you've completely poisoned the society.

And so talk about not apologizing for God's vengeance. Not only does Joshua receive the command and fulfill it to judge Akan with capital punishment, but his family as well, who knew about the devoted things and yet said nothing, to try and purge that, that which is wrong. And so your point about always passing the buck, the bureaucratic buck, to someone else, That doesn't jive well with me either because it's like, look what happened over the last three years.

Oh, we can't do that because that's someone else's prerogative. That's someone else's, you know, territory. Maybe so, but what's happening is wrong. No, I'm not saying this is an easy decision for politicians to me. But it's not.

But none of it was easy. Right, none of it was easy. And so it's like, this is the central question. Do you serve God or man? Do you serve justice and truth? Do you serve a bureaucrat whose name you don't know? Coming back to the municipal development plan bylaw,

geez, that's a mouthful. It said, well, I'm quoting what was sent to me, so I hope I have this right. Lloyd Minster's previous MDP was originally adopted in 2013, and this is basically a revision to bring it up to date with the current practice. A municipal development plan is required under Alberta legislation for all municipalities in Alberta, regardless of population.

Do you think that should be? I don't know. What do you think? Well, as an Austrian economist or someone who studies Austrian economics, my answer is no. I don't think that's necessary. Necessarily necessary.

First of all, I don't think it should be legislation. Let the individual communities do what they will. Let them do what they want. I don't see a particular reason for centralized government to tell us communities. What they're going to say is, yeah, and that's nice, Tanner, but this is law,

We have to abide by the federal government or the prevent, well, on this case, the provincial government. The provincial government's going to, you know, give us our mandate and we have to go fulfill it. And that's a bylaw on what we're going to develop and everything else. And, you know, like, I mean, we could try and eliminate some of the stuff. You know, I'm sounding like a jackass. And I apologize to my city council because I'm not trying to make them sound like a jackass. I'm just, you know, the difficulty in sitting there and going, yeah, but we need to have one. Like if I'm sitting there and I'm one in one of the seats.

So it's just me talking as what I would think if I was sitting there and it's knowing all that I know. It's like, well, we need to have one. Yes. What isn't it that you don't like? You start talking about all the environmental stuff. Okay. So we remove all the environmental stuff. Are you happy now?

Yep. Oh, I wouldn't be happy yet, but I should have clarified. When I said there that there shouldn't be that I was actually speaking to the provincial government. Provincial government. Now. Okay. So with things like with this planning bylaw, for me, I am, oh, I got to be careful here. I have to think about it. I'm approaching this firstly from an economic perspective.

And so what I mean to say is because it's not an explicitly moral issue, say that the government passes a law that says you have to steal or something like that, then I'm more conducive to have. having it, albeit much differently than what it is right now, this bylaw, than something, some law like, go out and murder. Do you see what I mean? Where as a politician, I guess you get to play, you have to choose your battles. And what I would do, if I was, you know, counsel in this case, you're right, where the provincial legislature would be up in arms about your refusal to pass a, you know, this development plan.

And so it's like, okay, in the name of, I'm using crude language. but in name of, you know, winning the war, let's just play this battle a bit differently. And we'll pass a bylaw plan, but it'll have no sort of mention of, you know, no terminology from WEF, no climate resilience, no passive surveillance. It's going to be as cut and dry and free as possible. Fair enough. Now, speaking to the provincial government, that's what I meant when I said, why that shouldn't be a law.

You know, you look at how, you know, it just amazes me how, you have all of these laws and rules that act like the individual human is stupid, or that a group of humans are stupid and can't figure the stuff out on their own. Like, it's like, in my opinion, it's like you look at the miracle of humanity, and you look at the intellect which God has given us, and you look at how many inventions and innovations have been achieved through the human desire for discovery. And then it's like, you mean to tell me that I have to have a few,

central bureaucrats plan how the city is going to be built. Now, some might argue maybe, but I don't think that's necessary. Again, if you're going to have it, okay, it's not, I don't know if this is a hill that I would, this, not, I don't know, I wouldn't die on this hill, but I would say if you're going to have it, make sure the individual is free and is going to stay free. I prefer less government. I don't think there should be a law. Let this, let the community choose, let the individuals choose in the cities if they want one or not, and go from there. And if we're going to have a municipal development bylaw, can we get

can we get another Budmiller? Can we get a couple things that, you know, I don't know. You've lived in Lloyd. Right. Oh, yeah. It's like, what's the best part of Lloyd? Budmiller. I don't know if there's I don't even know of a town in

whatever direction. I don't know how far you've got to go to get to something like Budmiller. Budmiller is gorgeous. It's phenomenal. It is. It's accommodating. It's peaceful. It's upkept. And one of the things that I'm told I'm supposed to like is like, you know, like these little, you know, don't you like the gas station that's in your, and I'm like, no, actually, I never actually really go to it. I tell you what I do go to. I go to Bud Miller. Yeah, but Bud Miller is really expensive and upkeep. And I'm like, we just signed on to this new arena for $94 million. I'm going to be paying for that. And I love hockey. And I'm still like, I don't know. I, you know, I wish.

Sean, you know, in hindsight, you know, maybe was paying attention earlier because maybe you could avoid some concern over that. Right. In fairness, Sean wasn't, so it's hard to, you know. Right. But I stared at it and I go, one of the hard things about government is they tell you it's like, well, this is for human, what did I say, Rod Seller said? Rod Seller said, Citizens.

Citizens plan. Yeah. It's like, well, I don't know. Yeah. I didn't vote on it. So then they go, well, vote to turn out is terrible. That's one of the things that was said there, you know, like you want to, have your say get involved.

So now they have people involved. Yep. And, you know, Rod, I think it was, was it, Rod Sellers, it was one of them said it, and then a buddy of mine, Colby, said the same thing. If you want, if you're going to make big key decisions. Yep.

Now, and maybe in the defense of the council, all of these are big decisions. I don't know. It's like, well, how could you get the, how could you get it out to every citizen and Lloyd? And I think it's Rod who says it. I can't be, I can't be 100% on that.

But certainly Colby told me at the other night he's like, why don't we just put it on our water bills? Well, get a water bill. You're monitoring us anyways. Yeah. Wow. And it's like, well, what? Yeah.

It's like that's actually pretty good. You know, instead of all the, you know, go read the newspaper was what, well, it's in the newspaper. It's like, okay. But like we're busy. We're trying to build businesses and everything else. Yeah. The water bill thing, I'm like, actually, that kind of has slacks. Like, we don't get one.

Yep. if all of a sudden you had an important discussion going on about whether it's the new rank facility, whether it's bylaws that you think are important, or maybe they all should be on. I don't know. You want to raise it. It's like, well, there's ways to interact to make a ton of sense. Cody Beckett was a guy who says, why don't you reach out to different businesses. We have clients that are all through town.

If we could push on them, maybe that's a way, I don't know. But there's no bad idea at this point because if you've never tried it, you actually never know. Right. And like, okay, so you're, I like your comment because you so often hear politicians at all levels, whether municipal, provincial, federal, et cetera, that we're serving the public interest. We're serving this abstract ideal of the public interest. All that really means is that we're serving our individual interests. It's just a truth because each politician wants to provide for their family and wants to do this and that. And the way they do so is by earning money.

And the way they're earning money right now is through politics. they get paid to be a politician. So when you hear something like, we're serving the public interest, what it really means is you voted for me, okay, fair enough, but I have interests of my own, and you voted for me knowing maybe one or two of those interests,

and as a consequence, I'm going to vote in a way that I think means you're going to vote for me again. Like you see the difference, even between Christianity and a politician, where the best a politician can do is say we're serving the public interest, which means you'll never get, even if you do satisfy some, your voting base, you certainly won't

satisfy everybody. Whereas Christ says, I'm serving you as an individual. What I want in government, what I'm hoping for in government is a model, is a system where the individual is protected from interference, where the individual is as free to choose as possible. The way you do that is decentralize it. You try to make government as small as possible. The more you can turn it into a system where the individual and not the whole public can be served turns into a system where the whole public is served, if that makes sense. The more you target the individual and not this abstract ideal of the public, the public good, the public service, the more instead you target the individual, the more the public is

actually served. The more you serve, quote unquote, the public and not the individual, the less the public is served, the less the individual is served. And so these ideas are good because the more you can involve the individual in these massive decisions, the more you can, as a government, serve the individual and listen to what the overall temperature of the community is. Of course, you'll never get it perfect. This isn't perfection, but as good as it can possibly be.

Yeah. You think we've got a chance at DC, you know, we're kind of like. like mixing and matching here just a little bit. Yeah. You know, like we got a provincial election May 29th. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't need to, you know, I'm bouncing here between, it's similar topic and that it's politics, but now we're kind of going back and forth.

You mentioned decentralized. Right. And I'm like, when was the last time a government decentralized? Like, truly. That's a miracle. Okay. So we're asking for the biggest miracle under the sun. If a government decentralizes, it's proof for God because it's a proof of miracle.

Yep. Yeah. That's what I believe. So you look at the upcoming election. You got Rachel Notley. Yeah. You got Daniel Smith. Now, certainly every community has their representative and everything else.

But I mean, UCP, NDP. Yep. We got any shot. I mean, when you look at, I guess, what do you see? You're a guy who follows these things quite closely. Yeah. Oh, I see a bureaucracy that's entirely too large. And on both sides, not just.

not just NDP, not just UCP. I think that's my number one concern. Bureaucracy is so massive. It's such a titan. It has to be, you have to almost start over. Like, okay, when you read the scriptures, what does God say? Does he say you have this massive problem, Joshua, just go in there and mingle and try and work, you know, work it out and try and smooth things out? Does he say to, well, any of those Old Testament saints, you know, just go and try and you see the problems, just try and maneuver your way around so that you can integrate and then go from there.

Does Christ say to the individual, you have sin in your life, but you can just, you know, kind of exist with it side by side and hope to remove a little bit of it? No, it doesn't, no, never says that. It's the opposite. It's like, if you have an infection in the society, you have to. to clear it out. If you have something which is devoted, it's got to go. It has to go. It can't stay in any capacity. We have a bureaucracy not only in Alberta, but in every province it seems in Canada. And certainly

in our federal government that is so beyond comprehension massive, so encompassing, so powerful that the only thing I think, that not I think, the only thing that will work to clear up these messes that we're in right now

is removing that bureaucracy, cutting it out. You look at Musk. You know, people debate about what Musk's true intentions are. It doesn't matter for this discussion. He fires 80% of Twitter employees. There's 20% left.

It's like you could easily do the same with our government. Easy. Easily. No, no, no. I shouldn't say easily. People would hurt, of course. But what I mean to say is

you could chop that stuff out. You could cut away the fat. Absolutely. And there's a lot of fat there that needs to be trimmed. and put into more, you know, moved into more productive enterprise has to happen. That's my, that's what I see on both sides. I'm looking for the government that says we're entirely too large.

We're spending far too much. People are too reliant on government as a consequence of, in large part, our policies. And so that has to change. And the way to change it is not to just take, you know, just little steps for the next 40 years. it's to it's to cleanse basically now before all that happens i should be more clear before all that happens how do you how does a society guarantee change invoke change the scriptures are clear they have to repent first you know i traveled the province i still travel the province speaking and so on it's a lot of fun i enjoy it so much but as i do so i so often meet individuals so many individuals so many individuals

who come up to me and say, if Smith doesn't get in, we're lost, or if this independent candidate isn't elected, we're lost, or if Alberta doesn't do this, we're lost, and that's the end of it. And my response is, well, actually, what's true is that if the society doesn't repent, we're lost, if it doesn't turn back to God, we're lost. If you put your faith in mere man, if you put your faith in the next politician who's coming or who might be elected, you'll find that all of your hope is hopeless. If you put all of your hope in this one individual who's sinful just like you and I are

and who makes mistakes just like you and I will or do and who's going to die, just like you and I will die one day, all that hope is hopeless. They'll last for a little while, and then they're gone. They'll be in power for a little bit. They might clean up some stuff, then they're gone. A new one comes in. Cycle starts again. So as a Christian, I go, actually my hope is in Christ first.

I'm not saying leaders aren't important. Obviously they are. But as a Christian, I say the first thing the society has to do is repent. It has to turn from its sin. Then you'll see drastic, dramatic change, just like you saw in Joshua. First, that which was devoted to sin, to evil, had to go. Once that went, then Israel flourished. Then they took out their enemies and went from there.

So with the two leaders or with the two parties or with your individual MLAs, obviously it's important to know what they stand for, what they believe in. But first and foremost, that's like the Jordan Peterson quote, clean your room. Figure out yourself first. Repend first. Repent. Seek the Lord. Go from there.

Don't put your faith in a politician. You'll find that it's your faith is, well, Paul says meaningless. It's hopeless. because they'll do things you won't like. I remember when Kennedy was elected. Everyone was so excited because it's like, here comes this blue-collar conservative, not blue-collar, but here comes this conservative

who's wearing jeans and drives a dodge, all of those things. He's a truck. Great, great. Within six months, they completely turned on him because he was just writing letters to Trudeau, and that was the end of it. And it's like all that hope that individuals put into him

was it vanished almost overnight because he wasn't who he said he was. Christ, on the other hand, literally because he was raised from the dead, is who he says he is. When he says I'm alpha and omega, he is alpha and omega. When he says that he's come to save the world, he's come to save the world. When he says that he's completely defeated death and sin, he's completely defeated death and sin. Sticking to what you're talking about with, don't put your faith all in one person, even if Smith, who I have a lot of time for, as people know.

uh, wins. She can't do it alone. Right. Right. She just, she just can't. Right.

So, you know, when you talk about clean up your room, it's like, yeah, clean up your room. Yeah.

Get your life in order. Yeah. I sound like Peterson right now, but it's like, get your life in order. Yeah. Get your family in order. And then maybe you can help your community out.

Because you just, like this isn't to me, when I sit here and I look at it, I go, I, I remember her face so vividly. I was interviewing Julie, Panassi she's just been let go um from uh what was it is it northwestern western

anyways it doesn't matter and you know i'm sitting there yeah i can't believe how naive i was but in fairness like here i was i was going so like how long is this doing you know like three six six months six months and their face was like like obviously people can't see what a face i've given you but like it's almost in disbelief that i would say something like yeah no We're talking years. We're talking maybe decades. Right. Maybe the rest of your life before this has changed course.

Right. And you go, you can look at that two different ways. Yep. Okay. One is you can get paralyzed in how much hard work it's going to be. Oh, man, we can never do that. Yep. Or you can get excited about that.

And it's no different than, you know, you read the first page or the first chapter of a very good book. Yep. And it's 1,000 pages long. It's 2,000 page long. It doesn't matter. You're like, oh, man, this is going to be a ride. Yep.

And you're excited at how long it's going to be because you get to enjoy it for that long. And I look at this and I go like, you know, just think of how much fun we will have over the course of the next couple decades. Yep. Repairing what is wrong. Yes. And supporting Mayor Gerald Elbers and the council to be like, no, you have all this support. This is what we want done. Right.

Push them, push them, push them. And then they go, oh, you're on our team. and you're going to stand up when the federal government or whoever is like you guys need to have this well we're going to have it but we're going to have it our way because this is lloyd minster this isn't you know emminton or heck even vermilion right this is this is what we want and to me that's that's democracy that's what it's all about and i get excited thinking like think of the fun times we're in for if we just all take care of our as from an individual sense clean your room take care of your family be better community member start doing these things, getting involved. David Parker. Politics isn't a spectator sport. He's right. You've got to get involved. You want things to change.

As much as we want to put so much faith into Daniel Smith, winning, and then all of our problems are solved, it's like, well, it just starts. The work just starts. We put ourselves into a hole. Yes. Okay, so you read the Gospels, because you're going through the Gospels. Whenever does Christ say, your problem stem from Rome,

your problems come from Caesar. It's like Caesar was oppressing badly. You know, the people of Christ and the early church and the Jews were tortured and oppressed badly. But the message of Christ is, what's wrong with your heart? What's wrong with your spirit? You're sinful. He's like, you have to start with that. You have to focus.

You have to figure that out first. And so, of course, his message of the gospel is, believe in me. will be saved, repent, believe the gospel, and then go out into the world. But he's like, as bad as, you know, as bad as Rome might be, and as ruthless as Rome is, and as cruel as, you know, the, the Caesar can be. He's like the rebellion, the sickness of man is the rebellion of sin. Like my, you know, of course, I care very much about politics. I comment on it every day. That's what I do. And it's interesting. But if all you do is look at the next leader, eventually becomes, not eventually, quickly, it becomes hopeless.

Because you go, it's just the same thing. That's what the ecclesiastes say. You know, he says, the teacher goes, nothing's new under the sun. The leaders were corrupt back then. They're corrupt today. As corrupt as the kings were, the prime ministers are just as corrupt right now. Or the politicians or the MLAs or who knows what. And so he's like, until something breaks that mold,

I'm going to live in this cycle of almost despair. But then comes, here comes Christ. And Christ is like, your hope isn't in a politician. Your hope isn't in a government. Although it's good to have a good government, your hope is in me and me alone. And so even if your candidate that you want to win doesn't win, and even if taxes increase, which is a very undesirable thing, and even if this plan is passed, it shouldn't be.

It's not a good plan. My hope is in Christ. And that's, you know, even that, it's so critical because it's freedom, right? Like the only, the man is free to criticize his government who is freed from his government's provision. The moment the government starts providing for you and I is the moment that we lose so much of our autonomy to criticize them as we please for fear of losing that provision. Whereas a man in Christ says, all of my provision comes from government or comes from Christ. all that I need comes from Jesus. He provides no matter what.

And so I can say to Trudeau, you're a wicked man. You're doing evil things. You know, what you're doing here and here and here is explicitly wrong. And your threats of, no, it wasn't put in this position, but your threats of, I'm going to lock you out of your bank account, is, although serious,

not so threatening as to make me stop preaching the truth, because Christ will provide for me. Now, it doesn't mean you go out and be stupid, of course, and do foolish things. But it means that a Christian believes and is provided for by Jesus. And so he's free to criticize or praise his government as he sees fit. Did you see that there's a new documentary coming out about all the pastors who were jailed in Canada? Yeah, no, I haven't seen the doc. I mean, is the documentary out yet?

Documentary, I don't think it's out yet. Right. But I saw Coates. on the trailer, whatever it was, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm actually, like, looking for it right now. It's, because it got sent to me, I'm trying to remember when it got sent to me. I started watching it, and then the tech, you know,

the phone just at times just, oh, right here, website. Here, let's pull it up just quick. Antichristdocumentary.com is what the church at war, antichrist and his ruin. I think is what the documentary is called. I think is what it is. And what it says is when the Canadian government ordered churches to close, practically everyone complied.

But some pastors led their churches to assert the supremacy of Christ. Over all things, especially Christ's church and her worship. Yep. The state has been presuming to tell the church how, when, and with whom she ought to worship her Lord. And so doing, it has made itself an antichrist trying to take the place and the honors that are due to Jesus alone. Yep, I would agree. That's a documentary that's coming out. I don't, yeah, without going right into it.

And it's a six-minute video. So I'll, I would agree completely with that. It's not, government isn't like the Antichrist, but it's, as John calls anyone who's against Christ, is anti-Christ. And so, yeah, it's turned itself into an antichrist. I would completely agree with that. Yeah, it was, on the one hand,

not discourage, well, almost discouraging to see how many churches capitulated. On the other hand, it was so encouraging to see, see how many people supported those churches like Coates's and Stevens who stayed open. But I think you read actually when you get it to the later parts of the New Testament, you'll see that Paul goes in the end days and times. There is a great apostasy from the church. There's a great falling away where the church becomes weak. It's not the church anymore.

It's just this Spurgeon goes. Instead of shepherds leading sheep, you're going to have clowns leading goats, clowns entertaining goats. And that's what's happened to the churches. You go to church these days. Okay, and now again, I have to be careful because on the one hand, a church is no time for caution. That's right. That's right. On the one hand, church is free. You know, the scriptures say, you know, you can, if you can't get caught up in details like, well, I didn't like this one word in this song in the way this church is worshipping. Okay. On the other hand, you go to so many churches these days. The sanctuary is dark. They have a light show happening when the, when the worship band is. playing and it just seems to be this and you listen to the preacher talk and it tends to be a very soft message about um the fruits of the spirit love joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness

faithfulness self-control all things which lots of the world already agree with and you leave that service feeling unfulfilled and it's like well it almost felt more like a show to try and draw in individuals instead of just standing up there as a preacher with the lights on God is light and saying, this is the gospel. Repent and believe the gospel. Turn from your sin and believe the gospel. And I think the results speak for themselves. A lot of churches are dead now in Alberta and in Canada.

A lot of congregations are very quiet because when they were tested, they were, when they were tested, they floated up to the surface like dross. And so Christ says you have to remove that dross. What's left is pure. What's left, what passes through the fire and doesn't rise as dross that's then cleaned out is pure. In the same way when you have testing and trial like this, the church that remains, the church that keeps the faith becomes all the more pure because of it. Their faith is tested and their strength and their faith and their conviction is increased as a consequence. And so is their testimony. Look at how much larger Coates' church has grown since he was.

arrested three times I think I read he was saying same thing with Timothy Stevens that church has expanded something unbelievable they're in a new building or they're moving to a new building I believe it's a great miracle because their conviction strengthened their oh that's what we're looking for in a you know yes it is this is so important too I'm glad you brought that up you cannot underestimate the importance of a leader it's it's you look at the scriptures every time or almost every time I think it's every time.

If not, it's just about every time. The nation of Israel repents of its sin when it's turned from God is when the king starts doing it. It's when Nehemiah and Ezra, the leaders, say to the people, turn from your sin. It's when this king or that king, or Moses, or Joseph, or Joshua, or who knows who, all of these leaders say, it's time to turn from your sin and return to righteousness.

It very rarely happens. even though the grassroots is so important that the grassroots gets together and then tells the leader what to do and the leader follows. That's important to have that influence like we saw with the municipal meeting. But when you look at scripture, repentance to a nation comes when the leader says we've done wrong, time to turn from our wicked ways and return to righteousness. The leader is so critical. If God had told Joshua get rid of that devoted thing in your midst and Joshua said, I'll do it in a moment, month? There would be no success. None. So critical. It goes both ways, of course, because the leader has a

tendency to turn. Well, actually tyrannical. Because what does power do, right? Power gives you and I as individuals the option, the ability to exercise our sinful desires without punishment. I can't go hit a man on the street, assault a man without consequence, or I shouldn't be able to. In downtown Edmonton, Calgary, maybe I can nowadays because there's lawless there. But normally, if I did so, I'd go to jail and rightfully so. But if you're in power and you control law, well, then you can engage in scandal after scandal after scandal like Trudeau, like the liberal government, and put on a sham of an inquiry and then walk whatever way you wish. And so it enables you to exercise those sinful desires without consequence, without punishment. And so you repeat them more and more and more and more and more.

So all that's saying, the people have to be involved to act as a check and balance on that power. Well, you talk about hitting people and, you know, maybe getting away with it. Did you see, and I honestly don't know the full story of Jordan Neely. Have you seen the story of Jordan Neely? You don't know what I'm talking about? Jordan Neely is on the New York subway. Okay. New York City subway.

Yeah. And obviously he's doing something wrong. You know, I'm reading the CNN article I've pulled up, and they're saying, you know, They're trying to paint him in the light that he was just saying I'm hungry and, you know, and these different things. But when you watch, there's about a two and a half minute video. I'm always uncomfortable when you know the end result as the man dies. Yeah. But I need an MMA guy here to tell me exactly what move. Rear naked choke, I think.

But anyways, he gets in front of the wrong guy. It's a 24-year-old military guy. Right. And he puts him down. Right. And the guy ends up dying. But what you hear in the video is call 911. people are like not trying to pull the 24 year old off they're allowing him to subdue him because obviously he was doing something that was not okay yeah and the fact seen in it well i don't know

once again trom will take a step back and say like i don't know the full story i wasn't there so maybe maybe there's more to it right but what you see happening in these big urban centers is more and more violence especially on the subways especially in these places there's video after video of like people doing really like yeah and instead of people stepping in just feeling just feeling So in one sense, you're right. Maybe you could go out and smoke somebody and nobody says anything. Right. But this starts happening too.

You're going to run into the wrong individual and they're going to put you down. Yeah. And they're not going to have any room. Well, I'm sure he has remorse. I'm sure that's not what he was trying to do. He's just trying to, you know, like there's like two people subduing this guy. Obviously something is going on. Right.

You know, and that eventually happens too. Eventually citizens take, you know, eventually citizens take it into their own hands. Yes. That's the story of judges, the book of judges, which is also in the Old Testament after Joshua, right after Joshua judges Ruth. At the end of what happens basically is, okay, so Israel at the start of, well, you know, after it moves into the land, it's ruled by judges, not kings yet, actual judges, who are just supposed to act as ambassadors of the law, basically. That's who they are. They're judges. But at the end of judges, the system almost collapses. And the people just do what's right in their own eyes.

and they just start becoming vigilantes. This happens in Genesis too. Lamelek is his name or Lamelech or something, where some man attacks him or his child, one of the two I can't quite remember. Anyways, he takes retribution on him and he kills the man. And he takes pride in it because he's like, see, I've done justice here.

What's happening is when you don't have justice administered, people take justice, and I'm using air quotes, into their own hands. and they become these these vigilantes because the idea of injustice is inherently you can feel we're getting closer to that yeah yeah and it's yeah I agree with you like when you when you see the video of the

Vancouver comes to mind where the guy gets stabbed to death in a patio of a coffee shop and people go people use the reason I used on Ocean Wiseblatt once upon a time when Ocean Wise Black gets mauled by the two cops outside on the outdoor rink. I go, why can he just get off? And then, you know, where we get to in COVID,

and I look back on that and I think, wow, Sean, like an interesting thought to have. But when people are using the same thing, the guy gets stabbed to death, he goes, well, why did he have to tell him? Why did he have to be the way? And it's like, so our answer is stabbing a guy to death? Because he, what?

Right? And you go, we're getting to a stage where I don't think any of us want to be. Right. But that's what's sitting there now. You know, like it's just this week, the drugstore, where he's going to, uh, uh, I'm going to pull it up because I, but the drug store in Vancouver is going to be selling, you know, like hard drugs.

Yep. Yeah, our government cares more about plastic straws. A legal drugstore selling heroin, meth, cocaine, and downtown Vancouver for safe supply. Yeah. Oh, if you want proof that our government is completely insane and I mean that, like absolutely, it's that they're banning plastic straw. or they ban plastic straws and they've legalized hard drugs or governments have. Like how does that even logically compute?

This so, it's so, it shows the importance of rules, of laws, of regulations, you know, not like government regulations, but for example, people might ask me, well, you're a Christian, yes. And then they go, well, doesn't Christ prohibit X, Y, and Z? Doesn't the gospel or the scriptures prohibit this action, that action, and action Z? And I say, yes, I'm glad it does. because as a consequence of those prohibitions, I'm now free to act as I'm supposed to.

Can I fit it? I have to, because I'm like, you know, I saw this, and I read his story. He said if I go to jail, he goes to jail. So less than 24 hours after opening a Vancouver brick and mortar store to sell heroin, cocaine, meth, MDMA, and a host of other drugs,

the entrepreneur behind the store has been arrested. For what and arrested for? What do you say? I could arrest a man for drug trafficking in connection with an illicit drug dispensary that began operating yesterday in downtown east side. Okay, now some economists, because I'm an economist, will say that actually you should legalize hard drugs and you should let people choose. I think that's nonsense.

Because, you know, economics isn't the be-all end-all. You know, you have to make moral decisions as well. and as a society, as a nation, my intention is not to stand before God and say, we legalized hard drugs because it made economic sense to do so. I don't even know that it does. I don't think that it does,

but suppose it did. That isn't enough of an argument to say, as a society, I was happy to watch our nation legalize hard drugs or drugs in general because it made economic sense. No, no, it has to be moral first. Has to be moral first.

Well, I've been somewhere out there, one of the listeners knows this. There has to be, like, I've heard of different countries that they've done this, and it's, like, working. Legalized, or, like, safe injection and all these, like, crazy ideas

didn't start in Vancouver, right? They stem from somewhere else. And I've heard, you know, because I'm thankful that I never got into, like, look, police said they began gathering evidence after the suspect started selling cocaine, crack, methamphetamine,

and heroin out of a mobile trailer, They're parked near Maine and Cordova streets. I'm like, oh, like, thank goodness I never got into that, you know. But I know there's a ton of people in Lloyd or a ton of people listening to this that have had individuals go into that world and some never come out, right? It's not like I look at this and go, I have the answer. I'm actually, so I guess I'm going to throw it out to the listener is if you know of somebody who speaks intelligently to why safe injections or a country maybe that's doing it properly,

and I can say that because I actually don't know. Because one of the things that hurt is there's a country over in Europe where, yeah, there is safe injection. But one of the things about going to it is now you have to enter into rehab and different things like that. And it's a program to get you off of it. And you're like, okay, well, what does that mean? You know, I have no idea. Because here it feels like we're just dispensing drugs and it's clean supply so we know we're not going to overdose. You're like, okay.

So we're just the cycle continues on and on and on. they have a free supply to just sit on the street and for the rest of the time, I don't know. But that's just, Sean, I feel like maybe I'm just inept when it comes to that. You know, like I just don't know the full story. So I'm actually, if you're listening to this, shoot me a text because if you know of somebody who can talk about it, I would be open to hearing more about it. Because like literally the guy who opened this store, I read the story, not this one, a different one, and he lost his brother to drugs.

Right. And I find it very interesting then. He would open a drug store. Right. Selling cocaine and heroin and methamphetamine and like, wouldn't that be the last thing on your mind? Right. Yeah, you'd figure. Like there's, you know, sitting here in town, there's a, there's a, there's a, we all know there's a drug problem.

Don't know the extent of it. There's a homeless problem. Yeah. Where, you know, I've heard different businesses now talking about like, you know, You, you know, like I had one of the sponsors of the show. I don't need to say exactly who said, you know, it's interesting. Like even in the daytime now, I have to have my head on my shoulder. I'm like, really?

And Lloyd? Like this is, you know, you don't think it's a, you think it's a Vancouver East Hastings. It's only there. Yeah. Or it's only downtown Calgary. It's only in Eminton. It's, it's spreading. Yeah.

Oh, it's tragic. Absolutely. It's spreading. Like even you talk about Calgary. So I went to school in 2016, like to the university. And the difference between 2016 and 2020, the difference in the culture, the difference in how downtown was structured,

the difference in the atmosphere was so clear and present, how it had deteriorated even over those four years. Now, I'm not saying that's an easy solution. That, again, that's another monster of a problem. I will say it's not that compassionate care act, the UCP's compassionate care act, or the proposal, I don't like that. That is, that's frightening.

What's frightening about it? Well, explain it to me. So, okay, so you're reading screw tape letters. There's another essay by C.S. Lewis called the humanitarian theory of punishment. And I think that's, that might be my favorite work of Lewis's. It's that an abolition of man, but humanitarian theory of punishment is so good. It's, if you can, you know, you can find it online. I'd encourage all your readers to, to read it.

It was so prevalent. I'm going to mark it, but I'm going to get through screw tape first. Absolutely. I'm the same one at the time. Anyways. Lewis writes this essay called Humanitarian Theory of Punishment. And it's published, I think, in Australia because he can't find anyone to publish it in England, which I think is a very ominous prophecy of what's happening in our country,

especially with like Bill C-11 and so on. Anyways, the discussion, the topic of a humanitarian theory of punishment, the essay, is, with regards to criminals and to punishment, should we punish them in a way that heals them, as in should we give them healing, or should we punish them as criminals have historically been punished, you know, with justice? And so Lewis asks these questions.

He goes, and after asking them, he basically, his answer is, if you take a criminal and say, he doesn't need to be punished, instead he needs to be rehabilitated, he needs to be healed, he needs to be cleared of his sickness, all of these things. He says, you end up with a more surgical tool of tyranny

than what would otherwise be possible. He's like the horrors that will accrue as a consequence of healing crime, of treating them like patients. Instead of justly punishing them will, you know, dominate your society. He says, I know it sounds far more humane, and I know it sounds far more merciful to instead of giving a criminal punishment, giving him healing. But he's like, it's the opposite. It's the exact opposite happens. And here's why.

Suppose you break your arm. Suppose you break your hip. Suppose you fall on the ice, you know, for a six or seventh time. Please know. And you break your hip. So you go to the doctor. For the listener, I've fallen on the ice three times on my hip in the last week. is killing me anyways. Carry on. That's an inside joke. It is. It is. So you go to the doctor and he can

say he sets your hip. Now that hurts or it probably hurts. I haven't broken my hip, but it's going to hurt. And you know it's going to hurt and the doctor knows it's going to hurt, but he can do it. Right. He can set your hip because he's healing you and you're happy he's doing so. It doesn't matter how long it takes. It doesn't matter how much pain it causes. You know that you need to have that hip set or else it's going to cause a lot of problems later. So let's fix it now, no matter the pain. And and deal with it. Let's get healed. I don't know when I'm healed. The doctor knows when I'm healed or knows when you're healed. He can look at x-rays. He's the one who performs the surgery. He does this and that and only the doctor is qualified to say you're cleared to go. It's like

that in the NHL, right? It's like the doctor clears you to go play, to go back and play because you're healed. I, with authority, the doctor, have decided you're healed. Okay. Suppose then that you commit a crime and we take that same approach. We go, you don't need to be punished, you need to be healed. Something's wrong in your mind. Well, the first thing you do then is bring in a psychoanalyst, you know, a therapist, to first diagnose you and say you have aggressive tendencies or something like that. Okay, you have to be healed from that condition, that disease of being overly aggressive.

So you go to a white room, maybe something like this podcast studio, except it's painted white, and they begin experimenting on you to be healed. You have to be healed of your condition. you don't know when you're healed, you don't know when you're perfectly passive and no longer aggressive, only that psychoanalyst knows because you're not a doctor.

What right have you to say that I'm healed? What right have you to say that I'm clean? I'm off, you know, I'm no longer addicted to drugs. You don't really know. Only the doctor knows. And so that procedures, those procedures, can continue for as long as the doctor decides

until you as a criminal are healed of your sickness of your disease and you can be released back into society. It might hurt so much that you can't comprehend. It might be a frontal lobotomy. Who knows what it is? But because you're being healed, you no longer have access to your rights or freedoms. See, you could be strapped to a table,

screaming and pleading with the nurses and the doctors and the bureaucrats saying, please don't do this to me. I'd rather be in a prison cell. You're violating my rights and freedoms. and they just as easily say, this isn't about your rights or freedoms. We're healing you. We're helping you.

You're in a treatment facility, not a prison. And so even though it hurts, in the long run, you're going to be healed and let back into society. So when you as a government say that we're going to force drug addicts into involuntary rehabilitation programs, and I'm not saying that what's happening

to these poor addicts is good. Of course not. It's tragic. It's horribly tragic. But when you say we're going to commit you to an involuntary drug rehab program, I believe you take away his humanity. You say you're a patient, and we're going to start helping you through healing. We're going to start healing you whether you like it or not. And so I'm treated like an animal, or the poor drug addict is treated like an animal. Like we saw this over the last three years.

All that autonomy was taken away, not in the name of rights and freedoms, but in the name of safety and health, right? It's like, you know, we could say, locking us in our country isn't right. That takes away my freedom to move. And the government just replied with this. It's not about freedoms. It's about safety. It's about security.

It's about evicting a disease from our nation. It's about all of these things. And so we no longer need to worry about your rights or freedoms, your ability to choose, because it's like you're in a sort of hospital. So as compassionate as that might seem, at least on the surface, it's just as much violation of an individual's rights and freedoms as it was during the last three years. Now I know that there are some that say, you know, those poor addicts are, you know, they're mentally, they're, you know, really suffering and so on. And I totally agree with them.

I'm just saying that if you open up this door, you want to talk about slippery slopes. You want to talk about unchecked government power and seeing these people as already less than human. there it is. I would encourage the UCP in every capacity in Garth Roswell and every other MLA in that caucus to just vehemently reject this bill, or not a bill, it's not a bill, but this proposal. I think it's so dangerous. Because you can just see, can't you just see one day, like for example Trudeau saying, he basically says it now, Christianity is a neurosis. You hold views which are hateful. Well, I mean, if I may, in the middle of COVID. Yeah. I think it's Archer Polowski who gets put in a psychiatric ward.

Right. And I want to say there's one other, and I'm forgetting it's somebody from out in BC. It's not in August A, but it's somebody along that lines. Yeah, yeah. Because you need, you've gone crazy. Yeah, of course. You have hateful views. And you're like, oh, that's, so if you talk a certain way.

So to me, I think you paint a roughly good picture. of this is also, you know, like, it's a dangerous slope. It's so dangerous. You know, we talk about, you know, if I come all the way back to the municipal development plan, why, one of the ladies who got upset is this slippery slope. We're just saying, like, can't you see what this could do and what it is going to facilitate over the course of 20 years? Yes.

You know, this is where we're being led. We say we do not want to be led here. Yes. What you're talking about with this bill is the same idea. Is like this, right now, yeah, we got a problem. Yes. We need to fix it. Yes.

You're going in there and you're getting treatment. Yes. And maybe for the first couple of years, let's just say it works. But if it's left on the table, who gets a hold of that and what do they use with it down the line? And they will use it. See, even now I would argue you're right with regards to who knows what happens down the line. But even now, again, not that, you know, I don't spend a lot of time downtown and so on, where these poor drug addicts are suffering so terribly.

But even now, that bill, to force a man into treatment that he doesn't want to be treated with, you know, I think it emancipates him from his humanity. It just, it's not right. It doesn't matter if it's with regards to getting a vaccine. doesn't matter if it's regards to thinking a new way, a new Orwellian way, what might have you?

To force a man into something like that which has no grounding in objective law isn't right. It's not right. It's funny, we've been talking for a while. And I just, I want to ask you a question

that has no, well, I mean, I'd be curious your answer on it. I've been wondering this, probably since I started falling apart, all the types, 2015. I'm like, is it possible to have a guy or a woman who just speaks the truth? You know, doesn't try to dance, you know, can say I don't know, can just be like, you know, I just disagree with you, I stares at the political hot water and goes, this is why that is a

bad idea. Right. It's so well spoken. Yep. And unafraid to go into the, rough waters. That we could, people say you can't do that because out east, they won't want that. I'm like, well, aren't they the same bloody people as us? Don't get me wrong. I get the structures, the political structures. Right. But the common folk are the common folk.

Right. Certainly here in Alberta and everywhere else, you know, it's, it's like, is that possible? Right. Or is that like the system, the machine that is, will spit them out. Well, it's possible. His name is Christ. I was wondering if you were saying now. Okay, now, so in that capacity first, what I mean is Christ is coming back and he's coming to rule.

And that's a king I'm excited to be ruled by. Lots of kings and prime ministers and politicians. I'm not particularly excited to be ruled by. Christ, I'm excited to be ruled by because there will be no political pandering. There will be no political posturing. There will be no maneuvers to try and get this done. Okay, so. Yes, on the one hand, right.

You got Jesus. Yeah. He comes. Okay. What about in this society? Jesus yeah Jesus is Jesus they get it yep he also had uh oh man John no who's who's the prophet before Jesus oh yes the baptizer John the Baptist John the baptize yes yes could we not get a John the baptized oh I sure hope so that's that that's it yes I would like you know

because I mean everybody you know Armageddon's coming yep and I mean you talk about this and you know how I feel about it's like okay okay yeah get it but at that point in time Do we need a political structure? Yeah. Probably not. We probably moved into a different way of eternity. Yes. Until then.

Yes. There are things that need to be done and said and thought and talked about and argued with and everything else. Yes. So as much as I want to go there, I'm like, can't we just have somebody? Is it possible that we are getting to the point in society where we just need somebody to talk? plain English and go like, listen, I know you think being inclusive to everybody is a good idea, but here's why not? In a politician that can just do that in such a non, I don't even know what I'm trying to get out.

But I've, like, I just, I watch so many politicians and they start out, you're like, oh. Yes. And then the world hits and they got it, they got to dance. They got a dance. Diluted. Yeah. Right? Like, and, you know. Yes. Well, so with regards to your first comment about John the Baptist,

yes, I think anyone can do that. Now, you have to remember, when did John the Baptist die? He didn't exactly live to an old age because his message of repentance, his message of Herod, what you're doing is absolutely wicked, taking your brother's wife and so on. Wasn't sometimes met with jubilation, believe it or not. And so they killed the baptizer for it. Okay.

You know, there's there is that risk. Now, with regards to a politician. Yeah, but I mean, but Jesus dies too. Yes. Pilot. Pilot. Yeah. Pilots going to the crowd.

Like, he hasn't done anything really that wrong. And they're like, kill him anyways. Absolutely. And so they kill them. So it's like, we can sit here and argue semantics of when you're going to die. But you're going to. Do you want to die at 80 and have this great old life? Yes.

It's like, yeah. Or do you want to drive? Like, or, you know, you might live to 80 and not be able to open your bloody mouth and live in, you know, listen to some of the Eastern European people talk about living in communism. Yeah. Scratch your head and go, what do I want to do? It's like, don't want to speak up right now and push the, you know, or do I want them to, you know, well, it ain't so bad. And in 50 years, you can't say anything to your kids because of fear getting thrown in the gulags. Yes.

I get it. And how to live in an atomic age. C.S. Lewis is like, I care far more about how we live versus how. how long we live. He's like, I want to live free for 20 years versus living in servitude for 80. I completely agree with that. Okay, so can a politician speak truth? The Chronicles say, no, I can't remember what verse it is. Anyways, the Chronicles say, it's either Second Chronicles 12, 14, or 714, I think, whatever. The Chronicles say, the King did evil because he hadn't set his heart on the Lord. can a politician speak truth and nothing but the truth and can it exist? Yes, but he has to understand that.

And okay, in a democracy, a leader serves the people. Fair enough. Great. My belief is that the way you serve the people is by serving truth and Christ first. That's how you serve the people. You don't serve the people by pandering to political newspeak, to ideology and so on. on. The way you serve the people is by first seeking the Lord and saying, what do you want me to do? And I'll do it. As a consequence of that, then the people are served. But instead, we have politicians today that rely on themselves, solely on themselves, and I'm sure they have this piece of advice in their ear and another piece of advice in another ear. And they're assaulted from all directions with different strategies that they should use to be elected. And as a consequence, like you mentioned, they become diluted and muddied. And you don't know what the

truth is anymore. So is it possible? Yes. Now, what are the consequences? I don't know. Who knows? But I certainly believe it's possible. Of course it is, because Christ lives. However, with regards, say, how about to Nehemiah? The story of Nehemiah is a good one. Nehemiah is underrated. He's this Israelite who's with the other Israelites.

You know what I can hear. I can hear people going, you know, we might as just walk through the Bible, story by story. That would be fun. You know? Yeah. That'd be so much fun. But anyways. Tune in Friday to the next chapter of the Bible where we break down Chronicles.

Yep. And this is what we're going to talk about. That would be a dream. Anyways, here's Nehemiah. Why don't you do it then? It's actually a good idea. Right now, to be honest, right now it's just been because so much of my time has been devoted to making videos and content with regards to politics and Christ.

But that actual walkthrough is a good idea. I'll see what I can You know what's funny You know I know I know you're gonna tell me Another grand story But one of the things I had thought Coming in here You know

I interviewed a guy named 222 minutes Toos And then we turned that into a weekly show Because There was just something there I don't know what it was And Tews has a crude way about him

But it cuts through some of the BS And I really enjoy that Doesn't mean he's always right Doesn't mean that You know You have to agree with everything that he talks about or I talk about, but it just cuts through the BS. Let's stop

being so politically correct, and let's just get to the heart of some things. Anyways, so the thought I had coming here, I'm like, you know, it was actually around municipal politics. I'm like, I wonder if I should be doing more like where you go, because, you know, one of the biggest problems of municipal politics,

we both know this, is their meetings happen on 1.30 on Monday. And listen, I'm fortunate that I can rearrange my schedule to make, not all of them, but I'm going to try and make a lot of them. Yep. And it's like, so then what do you do with that knowledge?

Yeah. You put out a substack and write about it. And I'm like, well, maybe I could do that too. Or maybe Sean should just do a podcast and talk about it. I'm like, is there any, does anybody want that? I'm like, I don't know. So I'll throw a dough to the listener because what I was going to say to you, I'm like, I have a lot of, we've only sat down and chatted twice now.

But I mean, geez, we've been going now almost three hours. And I'm like, we've been rolling along here. It's like, do people want more of this? I don't know. Let me know. It's like, do people want more of the Bible? I mean, I know Christians do. I know they do.

And they're going to say, oh, you need to. This is a great. It's like, Sean's reading anyways, right? I'm actually talking to the person right now that is on here. They listen, everything I do, they are surprised that I'm having Tanner on for a second time. They enjoyed the first time. The second time, they're like, yeah, I was ready for this too. All right.

Let's talk about some things. And if they're like, you know what? I'd like to see more of it. It's like maybe that's a direction we take. I don't know. Yeah. One thing about consistency is when it comes to the podcast, you know this, my audience knows this, I'm like, I'm really good at it.

Right. It's just, it's easy. Yep. It's just, it's like a skill I didn't realize I had. And, you know, and the more you get in the gym, you start pumping the eye, and all of a sudden, it's just like, ooh, I like this. And the way you talk about the Bible and different things, I'm just like, I find it very interesting because it's like new eyes.

I don't know why. I don't know why. But it's like, all of a sudden, it's like, why have I not been. giving the time of day to something with very historical context. Right. Certainly, we can debate about everything else, but I just find the stories fascinating. Yes. And I'm a little bit more.

I'm being a little bit gentle on that maybe. But to me, it's like, well, I don't know. Maybe the listener wants more of it. Yeah. But I mean, like, you're about to rattle off another story. I'm like, oh, I haven't even got through the New Testament, man. No, no, you're giving her. Anyways, so Nehemiah.

So he's this So anyways Nehemi yeah What was I saying I know Sean you know anyways I know So before that

The story of Daniel Daniel in the Lions den Daniel and the Israelites are seized by Babylon The nation of Babylon God says Israel you've been judged You're going to Babylon As a consequence of your sin

For 70 years they're there Eventually after that They get to go back to Israel To Jerusalem Not very many Jews go A lot of them stay in Babylon They've lost their love For their city

but the ones that do go back find that the city wall, which is so important in ancient times for protection, of course, has been demolished. It's in shambles. It's in rubble. And so they're just mourning because it's like their beloved Jerusalem is ransacked. One day, a man named Nehemiah hears about this. Nehemiah is a cupbearer to king, to King Ardazerxes.

So he's high up in the royal office. And, you know, he has a conviction and so on. He asks Arda Zerxes, can I go? back to Jerusalem to help my people repair their wall and to basically build up the city again. And Ardorxes grants some favor and says, yes, you can. So Nehemiah goes, he takes charge, talk about a leader. And he begins organizing the people to build up this wall of Jerusalem again and quickly, like not in a, it is happening fast. As he's doing so, what would you describe him as? His name is Sanballat. He's an enemy, but he's more like a, oh, he's a, he's a, he's a,

dangerous pest is how you would describe him. And he starts not taunting Nehemiah, but he starts asking him, come out and meet me, Nehemiah, let's talk about some things. Come out and meet me. And of course, he wants to kill Nehemiah. He wants to harm him. So Nehemiah gets these messages from this foreign sandblat, this man. And Nehemi's like, no, he can come here. If he wants to talk, yeah, he can come here. And he doesn't. That's how he deals with the problem. What I mean is when you read Matthew 16, right, you know the verse, because we talked about it. Be wise as serpents. And true as a dove. So there is a time for a politician, although he grounds his belief in truth. Be shrewd as a serpent. Uh, yeah, sorry. You're right. You've got it. Yeah, right. Shoot as serpents.

Wise as a dove. At any rate, there's a time for a politician grounded in truth to use his oratory like a jackhammer, a sledgehammer and hammer that point of truth home. And there's also a time to be surgical like a scalpel and maybe not say so much. Maybe for the moment. Maybe for the you can be a bit quieter. There's a strategy, there's an art to the game of statesmanship. Really what that art is is playing around in the mud with pigs

without getting yourself dirty. So you can't be, you can't be grounded in lies, of course. You can't tell lies, but there are times when it's like, let's play strategically and not act like a street preacher. Not that there's anything wrong

with a street preacher, but they have different, they have different objectives. One is to govern a nation, the other is to preach the gospel. And so whereas someone like Ray Comfort or Charles Spurgeon preaches the gospel without shame to everyone, loud and proud, okay, a politician has a different prerogative. It's to lead a nation.

And that might mean you have to rubbish around in that, rummage around in that mess without losing who you are. and who intruse, which is so difficult. It's so difficult. I don't envy anyone who does it. Does it well. And it's, yeah, you look at, like, you look at how many kings Israel had. I think it's 25.

It's either 20 or 25. I think it's, anyways, like four of them. Four or five of them tops stayed righteous. The rest were corrupted. Well, man, I've enjoyed this chat. Yeah. It's funny how hours just seem to fly by. Fly by.

It's so much fun. talking with you. It won't be the last time, I'm sure, but either way, I appreciate you coming in and working around my schedule and doing this. Totally. I had so much fun. We'll talk again.