Shaun Newman Podcast - #436 - Brother's Roundtable

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

The Brothers are back at it for week 6 of the NHL Playoffs. Panthers moving on, Dallas down 3-0 and predictions for the finals (assuming Dallas is toast). Recorded May 25, 2023. SNP Presents: Luongo & Krainer https://www.showpass.com/snp-presents-luongo-krainer/ Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Let me know what you thinkText me 587-217-8500

What was it? 800 bucks a team? Yeah, I don't know. It's the top of my head. Maybe. I think that's where the money comes from. Yeah. So I'm guessing, I'm guessing like half the money that is for your golf card and green fees.

And then the other half is the donation, right? Yeah. Welcome to Sean Newman podcast. Welcome back brothers. Well, did anybody have on their bingo card? Sweeps. Sweeps in the conference. I had five.

I had Vegas and five. I'm like I'm nowhere to be found I'm a raft in the ocean right now it's got to be one of the most evenly matched sweeps I've ever seen in my life with Florida and dominate them did they no like every game was one by one goal two games in overtime one being quadruple overtime

and then two one goal games so I guess it goes back to what we three one goal games no two one goal games plus two overtime games they're all one they're all yeah yeah yeah yeah It goes back to what we were talking about before is, you know, as for as much depth and defense and everything they had, missing patch ready, Svetchenikoff, Terravine, coming back from injury. They didn't have that extra goal in them again.

For the listener who's been paying attention to us, yeah, who's going along with this. How about this, okay? Out of the four of us, two of us took Carolina, two of us took Florida. Harley and me took Florida. So there's no way that Dust or Jay can go 100%. And out of me and Harley, who took Vegas? Harley did. Harley, if you've been paying attention to this sucker the entire time,

Harley is, you know, what did I say he's at? He is 8 for 12 right now and could be 10 for 14. Yeah, I don't like his reasonings, though. I think I'm going to have a monkey start making my picks. Really, at this point. It doesn't matter. The funny thing about it is I look at, the potential next series coming up and Vegas has two goalies that have had five

a five game winning streak two different goalies in the same playoffs being Vegas Aden Hill has five and Brousa. And then you go to the other side and you've got Bobrovsky who's absolutely playing out of his mind like some of the stats coming out of it like he was I watched a couple of his saves there and I was like that like those are five bells Is that why Harley's winning is because he's has more analytics on his staff

than the rest of us? Is that what it is? Maybe the even the backgrounders. Maybe the the Hamilton owners could take a take a hint or maybe he yeah a little more analytics I have zero analytics I'm all emotion. So everybody's written Dallas up

there's no way. There's no way. No especially with losing Ben here for another two years. It doesn't let me there's no way it galvanizes Dallas it's them against the world at this point. There's no way they should... They sure don't look galvanized, do they? The only thing I want to say about it, and I'll say it, you know, Rod Brindamore talked about it after game three, is he says it's just so hard when you think, if you said to me, you're going to limit the

opposition to 20 shots or less through the first three games and not win one of them. He said that is just hard to believe. Vegas beat Dallas for RIP last game, and Dallas still outshot them by a wide margin. Like, it's probably the weirdest thing is that for both sweeps, assuming if Vegas did sweep, is Dallas and Carolina wrote shooting both teams by wide margins. It's very strange. Goaltening. Goaltending. Goaltending. And it's not even like, oh, they had the best goalteners at the start of the playoffs and he knew that right from the start. It wasn't that at all. And it isn't that now. Like, Bobrovsky, yeah, traditionally he's been a good goalie, but he hasn't been good all in year.

But you're not picking Aiden Hill to outplay Archer. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. That's That's what I mean. Is Aidan Hills playing great? Audinger reminds me of Skinner right now. He looks young and tired. Didn't you win Provincials one year on the back of a goaltending and getting hot back in midget or something? That was the league.

That was league and that was Ryland Struby. He was our second string. He was a good goalie, but we had Carosa as our number one. He played AAA the year before him was like that good, except people used to get in his grill and he couldn't deal with it. And so. But you guys won the league off the back of a hot goalie, didn't you?

Well, then, well, go back a step. They started the year off like, what, one and 12? Yeah, we were horrendous. We were horrendous. Like, Wade, who's the owner of the- How do you remember this? Because I'm the older brother. It's my job.

Wade, who's the owner of the building we're in, he was the coach, and I'm sure he has his own version of it, but, like, we were horrendous. It was not a fun year. I made that team as the seventh D-Man, so they started me on forward. And so I played. I played forward to start, and then, Cidia left the team part way through, went and played Junior B, and so I got moved back to D, and we walked into playoffs as the complete and utter underdog.

As the Florida Panthers. Yeah, we had tons of talent. Yeah. But we just were not living up to anything we were built to be if we were ever built to be anything. Mike Crowes, I believe, started for us. Somebody could maybe remember that better. And at some point, Rylan Struby comes in, and, you know, if Camrose at one point put 60 shots on us, we beat him

2-1 and he stopped 59 of them. And they just couldn't score no matter what they did and how much they threw on them. And as it went, we just built a little more confident. Pretty soon you've knocked off the best team in the league for the year. And then, you know, you just kind of, things just kind of kept going. So really like Florida Panthers.

Very similar for you guys. Didn't you lose the very first game of playoffs? Yes. And that's why you went to Struby. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. So if you look at the Panthers, they were down three to one, right? And they went to Right? And they went to

Broboski because he didn't start the first two games. No. And then they got on this hot run and now they're unbeatable. Like goal-tending is like the black box of the NHL, isn't it? Of any hockey team? Like you just never know.

Yeah, well, it can make or break your series and your playoffs and you just never know. I picked the two, I picked Dallas and Florida going into the semis or the conference finals based off goal time. But Parovsky's the better one easily. And I look at the other side and I kept

going Ottinger, even though I wasn't letting my eyes show what the playoffs has been. He has not been the Ottinger of the playoffs of past, right? I'm playing off of that. And he hasn't been that. Everybody's exposed him. Every round Dallas has been in, he's been made to look a little bit human. And it's funny

what happens in players' heads when you start to make a goalie look a little bit human. All of a sudden, the best goalie in the world, it's like they're Swiss cheese and you can find the holes all the time. And you know, and on the flip side, you can have Aiden Hill, who is the backup, the backup come in,

and all of a sudden, he looks like a brick wall and you can't get anything by him. Is that the real benefit of a guy like Kachuk, is disrupting players? Like, he does stuff to disrupt the other team. I don't know. Scoring game winners is a secondary thing.

No, no, no, no. I'm not saying that. But if you think back to them being down 3-1 against Boston, do you remember what happened at the end of game for? He got in Allmark's Grill and got and like right no more he wanted to fight them that's right yeah and and is that the is that one of the big things about a disruptor is they actually you know they call it what they do is they call it they drag everybody into the fight yeah right yeah and that and that's what happens

is is is he's going around doing that and everybody's ready to just give it up but now everybody's mad so now we're just going to go out there instead of focusing on what they need to do to get it done He just blurs everything. I agree with you. To me, this year in the playoffs for the Oilers, Kane wasn't that, whereas last year he was. Well, because last year, Kachuk dragged him into the fight. Actually, Kachukh last year was his own worst enemy.

Calgary wins that first game, and remember him in the penalty box, doing the money thing. And you're like, oh, man, I remember being an oilist fan going, oh, we're in for a rough ride, because I know what, like, you're watching this. And instead, he picked the wrong guy. And the wrong guy dragged his entire team into it, and Kane became like... I mean, he was playing good before that, but like he was...

It reminds me of our last year when you were playing. When we hit Metal Lake in that second round, the whole thing was just leave him alone, leave him alone, right? Because they were big, they had all these pro guys, and we didn't want them to get all fired up and they're fighting and hitting. So we just played the game, right? Leave them alone. Don't put the bear.

That's right. don't poke the bear but sometimes in kachuk's case this time with boston needed to poke the bear well you need to get everyone going yeah pulled in a fight and and on top that he needed as much as it's kitchuk you needed a goalie to stand on his head and steal you a couple games and bobrose and my knock on the oilers has was always like where's the goalie this is why i would have started campbell and I already said this, you know, is why would you start them in the final? You needed a goalie to stand up and steal a game for you. And at that point, when you're down three, two in a series,

you're going to need them to steal maybe two for you. And right now you look at Dallas and you go, can they come back from 3-0? With the goaltender they got, sure, but the way he's playing, not a chance. Kelly Rudy talked about that game four, or game three, it would have been, with Audinger. And he showed in the very first shift how the puck was dumped in, and it came around the boards and Onager missed it. And he said, if you watch his body language, he's upset at himself, because he should have stopped the puck behind the net,

and he missed it. And then the play stays in the zones. It stays in the zone. And Vegas ends up scoring. And then he shows, and he says, it's almost like that got into his head. And then he showed the next goal where he didn't even, you know, he says as a goaltender, yeah, okay, he's going cross ice or whatever,

but he's not moving fast enough. He's not reacting. He's in his own head. And that's where Kelly Rudy was talking where he thinks Odinger's at. He's his, his confidence has been, is lowered. And so one thing happens and he just,

now he's in his own head and he's not reacting fast enough and not playing as well as as he. Confidence is such a funny thing. Because when you're confident, something will go wrong and you just brush it off and you keep on going and it doesn't phase you at all. But once you start to lose some confidence and whatever, you know,

what is confidence? Like it's, it's all inside your head, right? But once you start to lose it, all those little things, you know, just bring it down or affect you where you're focusing on that as opposed to what needs to happen next. Why does Keanu Reeves and the replacements a little quicksand come to mind, you know?

They're talking about fears? No? You know what I'm talking about? I don't know if I remember the movie thing? You don't remember the movie thing of Cana Reeves talking about quicksand? I don't know if I watched that. Remind us. Well, they're talking about different fears and different things you'll see on the, I'll see if I can pull it up

because I'll do a poor job. There's one more thing I want to bring up, and that is the suspension to Ben. Not because I want to talk about the suspension to Ben, but I want to talk about suspensions and playoffs as a whole because you've had three suspensions. And the three suspensions are someone challenging someone to a fight in the last five minutes and gets a game. You have a guy who Tomahawks, another guy with his stick well after the puck is gone and is not a hockey play.

And you had Jamie Ben who jumped on Mark Stone's neck with a cross check. and one of those got two games, two of them got one games. And if you look at it as a whole, you go, how does this make any sense? It makes no sense. And this is the problem that NHL has is there's no continuity. There's no rhyme or reason to a bunch of it other than the NHL trying to manipulate things one way or another. Yeah, and I don't, I agree 100% with you, Dust. And I don't think they're trying to, I don't think they're trying to manipulate that they want Florida in the finals.

No. But I do think that there's this general thought by the league and by the reffing that goes into the refs of we're not going to decide it. Right. So we're going to, so in the Peter Agile nurse case, you're going, hey, we'll give a game to each one and we're not deciding the series. But the problem is, and even the roughing on the ice, is we're all used to now for quite a few years. If you flip the puck over the boards in the defensive zone, it's an automatic penalty. It doesn't matter if that puts a team on a five on three. It doesn't matter if it's overtime.

It is what it is. Same with a high stick to the head. If an opponent's player's stick hits a player in the head, it's just an automatic. And we've seen now probably four or five times where the guy gets hit in the head and there's no call. And it feels like they're, well, you know what, I'm not going to call that because I don't want to sway the game. But it's swaying the game the opposite way because it's empowering the Matthew Kachucks. and the Kagan Colzar's and the guys that go around and play like that because now they're allowed to get away with a little bit more

and have the intimidation factor ramped up because you're not calling the so-called they get called every time. Well, the other thing too is Jamie Ben took his penalty in the first five minutes of the game, so you could almost argue that he got three games because he missed that whole game as well, whereas Petriangelo was within the last minute of the game. Last like 30 seconds.

Right. So, you know, him being gone for that game doesn't even count. So you're literally almost three games. You know the reason why they gave Ben two games is because Dallas is down three games to one, or three games to none. And they go, well, we can give them, like it's like, well, we can give them two games because they're going to be done anyhow. No, I don't, the only thing I don't agree with that,

I do think the Jamie Ben, why he got two, I think if it would have been Peter Angel, let's say, that did that to Stone, I think Peter Angela would have got one for it. That reason I think they gave Ben two, which I, I wasn't sure if they'd give them two or even three is because he has a history of cross-checking guys. Right? He's hurt,

but he hurt Dylan Larkin. He, in the past, like he's cross-checked two or three guys bad. But I thought I heard that that's the first time he's at a disciplinary hearing. That is true. So you can sit there and go, wow,

he did all these things, but I mean, okay, take a look at any player and see what we're all saying, though, is if the series is 2-2, do they give Ben two games?

I think they do there. Brian Burke said in playoffs, the way they always approached it was the playoffs is different than regular season for suspension. And every round you go deeper into the playoffs, it's supposed to equate to even more. But until they get rid of that, the difference between that and you take,

and not that NFL is perfect, right? Sometimes you get the quarterback calls or the offensive interference or whatever. They can be a little sometimes cloudy. But the difference between NFL NBA and even MLB versus the NHL is that all three of them leagues, if there's 10 seconds left and it's a foul, it's a foul. Yeah, but you know what?

We're talking about two different things, though, Jay, because you're talking about on court, on ice versus, because I am talking, because I think, outside of that. I understand, but I think it's the whole thing. Sure. I think you're seeing the two suspensions, but I think it's the whole thing that they're doing where,

hey, we're not going to impact the game. But they're impacting the game because they're not calling the high sticks. They're not calling. No action is still action. McDavid gets tripped up three times a game, and they're only calling it once because they don't want to affect the game because the others are scored too much. What the NHL is trying to do is appear to be fair.

They're not being fair. What they're doing is they want to appear to be fair. And it's leading into the suspensions. Same thing, right? Absolutely. And that's the difference between them and all the other three leagues. The other three leagues, just call it. That's what it is.

Just call it. And I'm sure if you're a die-hard NBA fan, a die-hard NFL fan, a die-a-hard MLB fan, they might have a few words to say about that because I know the NBA, just as the NBA versus maybe college ball, there are two different games. I agree with you there. And so as much as I want to sit here and act like I understand the NBA fully, I would say yes to a point.

Each league has its issues in how they deal with things. Some are a little better than others, but you come back to the NHL right now. And you have, like you just have some serious problems going on where, you know, Like, well, unless we're be truthful. Like, I mean, if we're being truthful about the NBA, then like Kobe, probably admit there's way more diving and softness in basketball. Oh, and their basketball players are 100%. Yeah.

Well, them in soccer. I was going to say, I'm not sure if soccer is worse for the diving or basketball. Soccer's the worst. Okay. Because the games are decided on the penalty shots. On the penalty kicks. And so as soon as they get within that zone, everybody's flopping around like a fish trying to draw a penalty.

The problem with soccer is it's so tough to score that if you can draw a penalty, that's the game. Yeah. That can be the game, right? Inside the zone, yeah. And so if you look at soccer that way, that's where the NHL's at. Or they should probably dove more with their power. Well, but the, but the.

But this, yeah, it's, it's an interesting. They should have pretended there are Calgary Flames for a game or two there and just dove a little more. Like, what I don't win the series. Here, going back to Ottinger, we were talking about confidence and everything. Here, this is, this is what I was talking about. I hope it does some relevance to what we were talking about. talk about. Now I know you all have concerns about this Sunday, but a real man admits his fears.

That's what I'm asking you to do here tonight. Good old Gene Hackman. Who wants to start? Fears, let's talk about. Fears, fears. Fears. Hey, I'm scared of spiders, coach. Well, that's not what I meant. Me too, Coach. I'm afraid of spiders too, co. Yeah, goddamn spiders freak me too, fellas. Well, I didn't mean that, though.

What I'm talking about. You're in your bed, man, ever get one of the Swedish chronic up you are, man? Maybe crawling on you, man. Damn. Well, thanks, Jimbo. You can just rock me to sleep tonight. Okay, that's great, but that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is what scares us on the field? What you mean, like spiders on the field? Get beyond the spiders, please. Bees? Bees. Bees. I don't know about them bees. Anybody here afraid of anything other than insects?

Huh? Come on. Quicksand. Oh, shit. Hey, quicksand's a scary mother, man. I mean, first of all, to suck you right in, and even if you scream, you get all that muck in your mouth. I don't think that's what she ain't had in mind, right there.

Huh? That's not what he had in mind. What are you talking about the income? Why don't you ask him? Hey, what's up, Shane? You're playing. And you think everything is going fine, but then one thing goes wrong. And then another.

And another. And you try to fight back, but the harder you fight, the deeper you sink, until you can't move, you can't breathe, because you're in over your head, like Quicksand. That sounds like Team Black. hockey at noon hour hockey. There you go. Man.

We're fighting. There you go. We got smothered for sure. That's a little replacement. You know, when you come back to Carolina. I might have to watch that movie. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's...

That feels like Dallas right now. Oh, you know, they start off shooting, out shooting them. Everything's going well and they lose in overtime. And then they lose again. And then Ben is gone in the first two minutes, Audinger lets in four. And it's just like they must just, feel absolutely smothered. But I, you know, so going back to it,

the hardest game now is this next one, right? Because it was no different than when Florida's down 3-1 to Boston. The hardest one is that next one. And they need, they need somebody that steps up and drags them back into the fight. Joel Budd. And it's almost like you don't care anymore. You're going to go do something. Shout out to Joel, bud, when we were down.

3-1. We were down 3-1 at the time. But yeah, don't let them, better not let us win him want. That's the bow socks, right? The bow socks when they came back from the Yankees three-riff. Three, yeah. Well, the thing with this is, is like, you know, it's confidence, and they say there's no momentum.

And I, sure, game to game, it's not. But there is mentality there with, like, we just need something. For the love of God, just something. And you wonder if it's Ottinger, or you wonder if it's, who's the backup? Blackwood? It's a Blackwood?

It's not Blackwood. Wedgwood? Yeah, Scott. Yeah. You wonder, you just, you know, to me, this is why I wish the others would have tried Camel. You know, everybody's going to be nothing. That's right, because you've got to do something. You got to do something to snap it out.

And now the Oilers were down 3-2, not 3-0, but down 3-0. You're just like, and you're missing your captain. So you're like, okay, and you might be missing Dadanoff now. So you're like, okay, so who's going to do it? Who's going to, and immediately I just think your goalie's going to have to play out of his mind this game. And it's not even. And it's not even, like, this is, this is what makes a guy like Kachuk special. Because this isn't where the coach is going to a player and saying, hey, I need you to do this.

This is where you just have someone in that room that just understands the situation and just runs over the goalie or runs over their captain or, you know, takes it, just something. Something that all of a sudden there's this huge melee and everybody's, you know, and it's just a shitstorm, right? And that's, but someone has to do that without being told to do that. I don't know why I lost all the, anyways, it's back again regardless. We're talking about pool party. So say the thing again, Harles, before we hop back in. Our analytics expert. Pulliervy, well, I don't know how much he played necessarily this playoffs,

but he might be one of the first players in back-to-back years on different NHL teams to lose in the conference finals. Almost the exact. Swapped. Almost the exact opposite of Pat Maroon. Okay. I think of Marion Hosa. Marion Hosa lost how many cups. He lost with Pittsburgh.

He lost with Detroit. And then he won with Chicago, right? Three in a row in the Stanley Cup finals. Pat Maroon, three straight Stanley Cups. St. Louis, Tampa, Tampa. Yeah. And then went to the finals of fourth year with Tampa. Pretty impressive.

But we were talking about Polly Arvi. So what do you do with him? Does Carolina re-sign him and give him another year? No, I think he's going back. Gosh, Sweden. Probably. Or Finland? Is that the end for him?

Or does it go to KHL? Does Arizona pick him up? Okay, if you're the Arizona GM, is that where your club's going? I don't know. No, I don't think so. I throw it in Arizona because Arizona's perpetually awful and, and you're the guy that has brought. Do you think the guy running the team wants to be awful?

No, I realize. He's trying to make decisions. Okay, but okay, here's the case for Pooley Army. Yeah. Not that I'm going to make it. Make me a good case, does. No, I'm going to make a case is this. you've got a guy that has all the physical tools

that's still fairly young that you can get for not a lot whose brain works at the speed of a buffer I'm not saying about the rest of it all I'm saying is that might be a deal if you're the GM of the Arizona Coyotes right now you sign them to a league minimum 750K for one year

what do you even sign that I don't think you would even sign that what would the KHL give him I bet the KHL give him a million and a half two million bucks the only thing with that though is then he is closer to home and yes Finland not sweet but I to think there's always been that part of him going back home. If he can't make it and he's not going to be top line player here,

I don't see him playing bottom line minutes. He didn't look at the top players from that draft, and then you have a bust at number three. Yeah, well, it happens. And I think he, I think one of his problems, too, is he didn't adjust well. Like, he came from a part of Finland where they didn't speak a lot of English. And there wasn't, like, he had a, they say he had a hard time adjusting to North

America. Yeah. A little bit more maybe of a homebody boy, more, you know, like that. Mom's boy. Yeah, a little bit like Sean. I was going to say Harley, but either one. Coming back to Dallas Vegas,

anybody think they can not win the series, can they win game four and start to push? Anybody can win the next game. That'd be Jeremy. Pool party sucks. Could it play with... My grandma would have had 50 points with McDavid. That's, that's, that's,

the fans here, folks, just outside the studio. Makes me a little nervous, all these fans outside. Anyone think that Dallas can, can they win a game? Sure. Can they, is there any way because every, every, I'll say this. Every sports show I've listened to, including ours right now, has written Dallas off. They're dead in the water. There's no chance, whatever. They said the same thing about Florida. And don't forget, this Dallas team has been to a Stanley Cup final. No.

It has been, there's just nothing. No. So I'm going to make a case for Dallas winning a game here. Was it going to be better than my Pooley-R-V case? Probably. I don't even remember you actually making a point to where somebody would sign them. So in the Florida Carolina series, every game was by one. And we've talked about this before, where, you know, Florida never won a game where they relaxed.

They felt like they had to give everything to win it. in game three Vegas even though they got out shot blew apart Dallas 4 rip Aden Hill had a second shot out in four games Vegas is on the verge you know Jamie Ben is gone

Ben's gone it feels like Vegas there is a chance Vegas relaxes a little bit here game four they're in Dallas if Dallas comes out and out shoots from two to one again very very plausible that Dallas could actually come out and

beat Vegas like 5-1 and then that puts Vegas back in the mindset. Does anyone think Dallas is going to lay over and just let them... Are they fragile? I would say they're fragile. Yes, they are. But at the same time, I don't think that team's coming in. Like, you got Pavelski and guys like that in the room.

They're not going... Ryan Suter. Yeah. Boys, yeah, let's just give it to Vegas and go hit the lengths. It's like, no, I think that's going to be a tough win tonight. I got a question for you guys. Is there... So when you're down three-rip, like this,

And it could be down 3-1, but something where you feel like you're kind of out of the series right now. Is there old grudges that the odd guy want? You know what? If we're going to go down, I'm going to make sure I run over so-and-so. Or I'm going to make sure that I get one last shot. And sometimes that could put people into a fight too. Vegas doesn't feel like that. Vegas wants to close out the series.

They're feeling good. Ben's not playing. They could come in a little bit relaxed. Dallas might go through not only where, okay, they're a little fragile, but Pavelsky's like, I'm sick and tired of Aden Hill. You know, I'm going to make sure I get. Like one time, I'm going to get in there. And all of a sudden it drags them in the fight.

They get a couple of quick goals and they win a game. I've done both. Well, I've come back from 3-1 to win a league. We've lost in the league final being up three-none. Three-rip, you're one of them teams. No, no, no. It's worse than that. And less than a minute away from winning and they scored a seeing-eye shot.

It's worse than that, Jay. I was watching that game. You guys were up. What was the score? You guys were up by one with five minutes left? No, no. And Wayne Rain, Rain, Rain, two, one with a minute to go. No, no, no.

But worse than that, because you have. had a guy have a breakaway with two minutes left who could have salted it away and made a 3-1 and the series would have been done and he doesn't score. They'd come back and score with a minute left and then win in overtime and then come back and win in seven. So on the flip side, I've come back from 3-0 as well. Now, is senior hockey the same thing as the NHL? No, but I will say that things start to creep in your brain and I never understand why the NHLers don't talk about this. How does L.A. come back from 3-0 or the Boston, no, the Philadelphia Flyers come back from 3-0. It starts with little things. And first and foremost, they got to escape the first

five minutes without giving up a bunch of goals and getting run over. And the Pavellskis of the world should not allow that to happen. If Pavellski was out, I think I'd be more nervous than if Jamie Ben's out. I know Jamie Ben's the captain, but Pavellski is the guy who comes back after not playing and scores four. And you're like, whew. I agree with you, though. They need everything to go right. If Vegas comes out and scores one in the first five minutes and then all of a sudden gets a power play, like it just, you can see it going that way. Well, they're fragile. So what Dallas needs is they need the puck luck. They need to have some timely saves.

They need to score first. They need all them things to fall into line. But I'm saying I think it could happen because I think Vegas could, even though they're going to say all the right things, they're going to say all the right things in the dress room, they could come in just a notch below. And they're already getting out shot two to one. So if they don't come in, ready to roll, Dallas, Olson Robertson and Rupert Hintz each throw a goal in and then you're fighting from behind.

Next thing Dallas won five. That's my call. It's interesting that you're talking about not, you'd rather have Pavelsky in the lineup than Ben, because what can Pavelsky change within that locker room is the mentality, talking, going back to where we're originally at to begin with, right? How do you do that? It's something small that the team is lingering on, whatever, and you just need that one guy that can just change that small mentality, and then you just got to try and build on it, right?

And that's... Well, I got all the time in the world for Jamie Ben, but one of the things I did not like, so he gets booted and you go like, you know, to not like, I don't know, to own it for what it is. He cross-checked him in the head and I think of his intent and he knew it was stone and, you know, maybe he didn't like the hit and there's a whole bunch of things there. But not talking to the media is, is, that's a tough one, right? Going right to his vehicle, getting in, going, whatever. It's like, do you want to talk to media?

No, that's not going to be fun. But you're a leader of a hockey team and you have to. Are you going to own it? That's right. And to me, he doesn't. So to me, I look at it and I go. When he did talk about it, he talked about all, you know, kind of falling on the guy. Yeah, right?

And you're like, no, you cross-checked. No, and you cross-check him in the head. Yeah, you know, like, I mean, let's get me. Maybe we could say that cross-check wasn't that malicious or, you know, it wasn't as bad as what it looks. Or, sure, you could, but I cross-checked him that. Anyways, when I look at leadership, like, I like Jamie Ben, but I go, Pavelski disappears, comes back, well, not disappears, he gets that injury, then comes back, scores for, and it's just like, man, I'd love to have that guy on my team.

I would love to have him on the team. So you need a game where Dallas comes out, and for the love of God, their top guys got to be their top guys. Their goaltender who's got to stop a beach ball. If he's not, put him Wedgwood and see if you can run with them. Did Dustin disappear in game four yesterday? He kind of didn't. No, I had one goal anyhow. I thought you a little bit disappeared, Dust.

I think I'm a lot. We're a little rough arm on the back end. When your brother who's a defenseman puts in three, I think you disappeared that game. I'm just saying. Harley, Harley's Pavlsky of the team. I'll say this about Jamie Ben, is if Jamie Ben would have owned it. Now, think of this as your teammates.

He's like, oh, I accidentally fell on the guy. If he would have told the media, you know what, Mark Stone was fucking pissing me off. And I shouldn't have done what I did, but I got mad and I cross-checked him. Your teammates would actually, I think that actually gives him a little bit of a boost. Like, oh, our captain was worked up and did something

instead being like, yeah, Well, I kind of happen. Or actually, what I think happened is if Jamie Ben would have came out and said, I was trying to get the guys into the game early. And my cross-check came down, but I shouldn't have cross-checked them at the head area, right? I wanted to come down, hit him in the shoulder, kind of get everybody going, right? And so I shouldn't have cross-checked him in the head or neck. That was terrible of me.

Should I cross-checked him in the back. He was. Well, no, but I think that's what he was trying to do. I think, I think Jamie Ben came with the mindset as the captain in game three. I'm going to go with their first shift and we're going to get going. Right. And it just didn't work out. Yeah, it's not that I don't like Jamie Ben, but I agree.

I think you should own it though because I think it actually helps your team if you own it. When you kind of like, oh, I fell. Now the rest of the team is answering questions about your conduct. Actually, yeah, you're, you're, the way you handled it now. Yeah, now they all have to defend you. And, you know, I heard who's a coach of Dallas? Why can't I think of his name? It doesn't matter.

The Dallas coach, we'll just call him. DeBoer. DeBoer. You know, talking about, I don't know if he said this or if it was just the NHL guys on the NHL network saying or talking about it, but that about now they have to win a couple. So his season doesn't end that way. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if any Dallas star is playing to win so that Jamie Bank can get back in the line.

That's a coach reaching. That's a coach reaching, right, to me? For sure it is. I think, I don't think I'm, yeah, I agree with you. I think you're just walking in the room saying, you know, Who wants to lose game four at home from our fans? Let's just go win one. So, you know, we're just, let's get one in the bank here at home.

See, if I, similar mindset, I just go in and challenge them. Yeah. And Dallas is a good hockey team. This isn't, this isn't like their outgunned, oat matched. We don't shooting them every game. And they're like, we have no business being in this series. It's like, nope, you're a wounded bird right now. And when you're backed into a corner, those are the toughest to put away.

And getting beat 4-0 smacked around your home ice, losing your captain, your goalie not playing good, you know, it's like, oh, maybe they come out and do the same thing in Vegas skates on in 4-0 fashion and whatever. But you're like, I don't know, like maybe there's something there where Dallas can come out. And it only takes one game and all-send your mindset can change and you can attack different things. And, you know, you win one and it can snowball. It can snowball. We've seen it with different sports games. What did you think of the penalty last night at Jordan Stahl with a minute left? This is exactly what I'm talking about.

If you're going to call that, that's fine with a minute. left, but then you should be calling it the whole playoffs. Like that's, and again, we talk about, oh, Florida went, how many, what did Florida win two of them four games where they had a power play? Like, I know that one wasn't in overtime because it was four seconds, but there's a minute left in the game and they win it on a power play. And I'm sure they won, was it game one on a power play. So they're trying not to affect the league, because we're not going to call too many penalties

and stuff. So it's still affecting the games. It comes back to the culture of hockey and how from the top up, if they're going to They just need to make it black and white. But now you're affecting the games. How about this? Chichuk does not score that goal if they're not on the power. Carolina's lost 12 straight conference finals games in a row.

They got swept by the Penguins in 2009, the Bruins in 2019, and now the Panthers in 2023. Does that mean they're in the weakest division in hockey? I don't know. Again, we're talking about a Carolina team that lost four one-goal games that outshot the Panthers. In the first three games, let them to 20 shots. You're not addressing my point. Your point is that they get through the conference final every year because they're a good team, but they play in a weak division.

They don't get to the conference final every year. No, that was over 14 years. Like the guys on the old nine team aren't even on this team. I don't know. He just said 2009, 2009, and then this year. Okay. Well, I'm thinking. Wait, wait, that's when they've been swept.

How many years have they met? No, that's the last three times they've been in the conference finals. They've been in the conference finals. They made the conference finals two of the last four years and got swept both times and made it. And so I'm wondering if that division is a weak in the last five, but just point that out. Whatever. I will say this is that if you're going to come back from 3-0, I'm going back to Dallas and Vegas here for just a second, is if you're going to come back from 3-0, there has to be a little spark and a little magic. And I don't see it in Dallas at all right now.

I know, but that can change. No, no, no. And the lead-up, there's always kind of little tell-tale signs. You know what they need to happen? They need Vegas to go down. and in the first two minutes and we're bringing one off the post where they don't get the goal. And also in Dallas comes down in the first 10 minutes and they do score. What I'm saying is it starts before the game even starts where there's a lead-up where there's something that galvanizes the team or all I can say is magic.

What I mean is the little team event. The one what's the one in golf where you get, Europe versus America. Which one's that? Rider's Cup. When the Americans came back, I remember watching the day before they went back, and I can't remember who the coach was on that one,

or the guy who was organizing it. But something in his speech just kind of clicked, and I'm like, oh, they got a shot at this. And then they went out and came back from this huge deficit to win it. I don't see anything like that with Dallas right now where there's any kind of spark in the lead-up. So honestly, I don't think they're coming back. The problem I see with Dallas coming back.

The problem I see with Dallas coming back too is how it's set up. So they're at home for game four. So let's say they go out and win this game. Now they have to get back up for game five in Vegas still without Jamie Ben. So they win one without them at home. And Vegas is going to be, if they lose game four, Vegas can be ready to go. That's a very tough road. They've painted themselves in the corner of they have to be perfect.

You'd almost be better off if you were on the road for game four. You happen to squeak went out. You go home, you win one. And now you're in game six. I look at it differently. I guess I look at it like you win this game. Yes, the tough game is five. Yes.

Because you go there, you've got to win in the opposing barn. But the pressure's on Vegas, because if Vegas loses that game, now you go back to Dallas and Jamie Ben and holy man, now it's three, two, and we got a series. And if you win, we all know game seven is whatever. We're getting hurt ourselves because you're down three-oh. The problem you got. So what you're saying is you're going to a game seven? The problem you, the problem you, listen, everyone's, it's like everyone has written them off.

And maybe they get blown out seven nothing tonight and it's just over. And Dallas, you go like, where, like, why did they have nothing? It's like, or maybe they win a game and it just starts to, you know, perpetuate out into the next and the next and next. It doesn't matter. To me, they have to operate perfectly. And perfect. And have breaks.

Yeah. But that's perfect. In hockey, that's what they need. They need timely scoring. They need timely saves. They need the puck luck. They need a whole bunch of things to go their way because one misstep and they lose. I wonder if they'd be.

interest in having dust coming down do a little speech. No, I can do anything. They're written off because most teams don't come back. And it takes a very special team to be able to come back. And I don't think Dallas is a special team. Well, we're going to find out. We are. Well, boys, thanks for hopping in.

Are we doing our... Doing her what? I guess we've got to wait. Well, what the problem is, we can't... How do you predict? I mean, in saying that, the Stanley Cup finals can be a couple games in. Yeah, so right now, assuming Vegas gets in, right? We're going to assume that right now.

Okay. I'm going to go with Florida to win the cup because I think Bobroski is going to run the tables here. And so that's my pick. I guess we've got to do games. So what are they going to? Florida over Vegas and six. And MVP.

Florida over Vegas over six and your MVP? That's a tough one. Who wins it between Bobrowski and Kachuk? That's your two guys, right? Kachuk, how many game winners? Chukuk have five now? I don't know. What is he?

That gets ridiculous. But Bobrowski is just out of this world. He must have set the record. I'm going to go Barbrowski. Dust? Harles? Florida, if they win, we'll have beat the one, two, and three seeds in the Eastern Conference, and then we'll have played the number one seed on the other side.

I just like the storyline. I'm going Florida. That's not very good analytics, Harley. Don't go with the storyline. You haven't been emotional the whole time. Yeah, don't do that, Harold. Don't switch your thing. So then Florida in five.

Florida in five and your MVP? I'm going to, I don't really want to go the same as Jason, so nobody else has been able to go, so I'm going to go to Chuck. Good. I'm going to go Vegas in six games. I think it's going to be a great finals, quite honestly. And I don't even know who from Vegas I'd pick for that. Aiden Hill?

That's not far off. They say the highest rated guy right now is Jack Eichol. I, God, I can't do that. Are you going to pick Vegas and Ickel thoughts? I can't take it. No, no. Hey, is it like the Ron Hextal? Do you take Vegas and pick Bovrosky as the MVP?

He almost good. I'll go with Mark Stone just because I cannot stand Jack Eichol. And I tell you what, I bet against Florida one round. That was not the first round. I bet against him with Toronto. And they've proven me, you know, that they've just found a way no matter the obstacle. They've like hardly just rattled off.

So I got Florida. I'm going to say we're going to have a seven game series. What the heck? And I think Ketrach says to lose right now. Without him, I don't like, don't get me wrong. You need the saves. But he just continues to find a way to will them on. So it'd be close though.

But Rofsie's not a bad choice at all. The one thing we didn't discuss this week was Toronto firing the GM, which Jay said they shouldn't do. and I said they would do. Yeah, and he just got permission to talk to. We were talking, someone was asking. Permission to talk to who? Picksburg.

Really? But did you hear the story from Shanahan? No. So Shanahan came on afterwards and said that him and Dubas had an agreement pretty much ironed out. And he asked Dubas not to talk to the media until after they signed the agreement. Dubas really wanted to talk to the media. So Dubus went on, talked to the media about everything, about how tough it was. and how tough on his family and stuff.

And it changed Shanahan's opinion. After that interview that Dubus did, Shanahan said, I had second thoughts. And then they went through the rest, like through the early part of that week. When was that? Well,

when Dubas have that big media? Yeah, it was last week. Last week sometime. And so Shanahan then went through the next couple days, met with Dubus. They were still going to, they were still looking at signing,

I believe, the next day or something. and Shanahan met him the next morning and let him go. That was the most bizarre interview I've ever seen regarding. Whose interview? Shanahan's. Okay. With the media availability like that, that is the most in-depth, any, like in the hockey world, especially, right?

Where he's laying out day to day for like a week, what he's thinking, the conversations that are being had, who's having the conversations, not even just phone calls, but emails and going through it all. Isn't that Shanahan's M.O? And the reason why I say that, when he ran the suspensions for the league, that's how he'd do, he put out a video and say,

this is the things we're looking at and this is the reason we came to that decision. And you could disagree at the ultimate decision, but he'd lay out what we're into it. And I actually really enjoyed that. And so it's funny that he's doing it now as well. And, and you know, what's interesting is you go, the one thing they said is,

they think him and Dubus were having like power struggle. Yeah. Like Dubus wanted Shanahan to take a step back. And but they were still going to sign Dubus. Like there was a deal there. And then it all changed after his interview. And now he's moved on. But you think if he can get Tray Living in there, is that not a great fit for Toronto?

Like after the job he did in Calgary? Well, I can't believe I'm actually going down this path. But the problem Toronto had, which I think Malcolm Ragki talks to, is if you watch that, team in the playoffs the problem they had in that Florida series is they didn't have enough grinders guys that hit and bang and work is how I put it they had the high in talent without a doubt they have high in talent on that team but I don't think that enough of those bottom of my guys what's your identity your identity going through the entire thing was based off speed and skill and then rate at the trade deadline dubus brings in a bunch of hitting and big big guys right and that like that's not your team

identity so to me like but are we not well but are we not missing that well in the end i thought it was a successful season for toronto sure i understand everybody wants to go the stanley cup final win stanley cups every year and i understand that's the ultimate goal toronto had not won a first round series for like 20 years 19 and and and so they got they won the first round series so the moves that dupus made work to win that first round did i understand that there was high expectations no different than with the oilers, but not every team's journey is where every year you make it to the finals. They won that huge series. It was such an emotional thing for them. They just didn't have the experience. Their core group is a young group. Mariner and Matthews and Neeland are young

guys, and they didn't have that experience in game. The second round, they just came in. They just didn't have anything left in the tank. But next year doesn't mean that that's going to be the same, but he brought in some more grit and it worked. They got through the first round. They won a series. Isn't out a win for Toronto? It is. And I just can't get out of my brain that Shanahan told Dubus, don't do media until the deal is signed. And he went against that.

And things he said in there undermine him getting his next deal with Toronto. Yeah. Think about that. Yeah. Well, essentially, if you're a Leaves fan, you like that about Shanahan. If you're Shanahan and you come to an agreement and you have a discussion and another guy agrees to it and then goes back on what you agreed to. Yeah.

How do you trust the guy? Well, the thing is, is like, he's looking at it going, now I have doubts. And if I have doubts, I better look into that. And as you explore the doubts, he realizes this isn't it. And maybe in the meantime, Calgary's done when it's done. And he starts to think about, well, this is maybe what we could do. You know, speak to tree living or wherever they go. Or whoever they go with.

And all of a sudden, one little decision, which seems inconsequential to do this, right? It's just a media event. I just want to, you know, talk about some things. He opens up and that's how it comes up. I tell you what, Toronto better get going here quick and find a GM because they need a solid GM that can go and talk to Matthews because you're in real, a real dire situation here where if they don't, if they don't figure it out with Matthews here before July 1st, they're trading them. Like, and then you've got to work the phones and try and figure out what the deal is you can get from Matthews. not only do they need a deal before July 1st, they have to trade them before July 1st.

Right, that's what I'm saying. So you either need the deal or you got to trade them before July 1st and every day we're getting closer. I like Shanhan even more. From that story? I think that's a pretty incredible story. And actually reminds me of like grandma new

and stick to your word kind of thing. If you say something, do it. Really? Don't say one thing and go and do another. But I'd be curious because now I'm going to have, have to go back and watch and listen because is it because of he went and did the press conference or is it because of the things

that came out in the press conference out because of things he said in the press conference it's about how hard it was on his family life and all these different things and he's started his doubt is I don't know if he can do the job yeah it isn't because he broke his word that certainly had a little part to play I'm sure it's all because of what he says on the stage about you know he thinks he's been oh it's been real tough and it's tough on the family life And Shanahan goes, I need somebody who lives, eat, and breeze this.

Because we're looking to win a cup. Yeah. That, to me, is really interesting. Yeah. Did you hear what Ken Holland had to say? When I asked about the off-season here, about maybe bring it in players. And he said, I'd love to. But where we're at with the cap, he said, the only guys I'm looking at is guys I can get for peanuts.

Yep. So that just tells you where they're at. You know what? And I don't mind it. You know, everybody, the best, the number one rated defenseman, right-handed shot defensemen. So, you know, when we were talking about the Oilers, you know, you got Cecee on the right side, Bouchard, and Desirene, right? That's your right side right now, is Damon Severson.

And they figure he's going to go between five and six million a year. Is he a huge upgrade over Cici? No. Scott, the second best right-handed defenseman in the U.F.A. It's all what sacrifices in Mayfield. And property. and what you're going to give up to get him. Yeah, but is he an upgrade overseas?

No, no, that's what I'm saying, though. Is that, okay, so let's say you bring in Severson because you're like, oh, he's a little bit of an upgrade. What are you going to sacrifice to get him? Right. And I don't think you make that sacrifice. Right. And so, and the number two guy is Scott Mayfield.

Well, Mayfield, it comes right down to A, Desjernay is way cheaper than Mayfield, and they're literally the same type of players as Mayfield has a few more years under his bill. Right. That's your top two right-hand shot defensemen. So unless you're making a trade, that's all that's there. For the Oilers, like I've said, for a while, you don't need to make big changes at this point. I'd let the team gel.

Do the Oilers make a change as far as like a goaltending coach, right? Where maybe that's the one way that you could. I would get them. I'd pay the world for Sean Burke. I don't think he's leaving Vegas, but the one difference that you could make that's not affecting the cap. But you identified an area of weakness with your goaltending in the playoffs. And maybe now you bring in somebody,

And you've got a whole year to try and work it out. What I had an OHL scout? Sure. Well, so we've got a couple things on the go. Well, boys, thanks for hopping in this week. And, well, I guess we'll see what another week brings here in the old NHL. Yeah.