Shaun Newman Podcast - #454 - Dr. Pierre Kory

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

He is the former Chief of the Critical Care Service and Medical Director of the Trauma and Life Support Center at the University of Wisconsin. He is considered one of the world pioneers in the use of ultrasound by physicians in the diagnosis and treatment of critically ill patients. He helped develop and run the first national courses in Critical Care Ultrasonography in the U.S., and served as a Director of these courses with the American College of Chest Physicians for several years. He is also the senior editor of the most popular textbook in the field titled “Point of Care Ultrasound,” a book that is now in its 2nd edition and that has been translated into 7 languages worldwide. He has led over 100 courses nationally and internationally teaching physicians this now-standard skill in his specialty. The Disinformation Playbook article link: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/disinformation-playbook Dr. Kory's Book "The War on Ivermectin": https://thehighwire.shop/collections/books/products/the-war-on-ivermectin-the-medicine-that-saved-millions-and-could-have-ended-the-pandemic Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

This is Nicole Murphy. This is Rachel Emanuel. Hi, this is John Cohen. Hey, everyone, this is Glenn Jung from Bright Light News. This is Drew Weatherhead. This is Terracount. This is Ed Dowd, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Friday. We got an interesting one on tap for you today. Before we get there, let's get to today's episode sponsors. Rec tech power products. They've been committed to excellence in the power sports industry for the past 20 years. They offer a full lineup, Canam, Skidu, C, Do, Spider, Mercury, Evan Road, Mahinder, They're open Monday through Saturday.

You know, being summer here, and everybody's out on their machines, they're out boat and et cetera. They got parts department that can hook you up, upgrades, odds and ends, maintenance. You get the point. All you got to do is go to rechtechpowerproducts.com. You can see what they're, everything you got, of course,

and then they're located on the west side of Lloydminster, and you can stop in today, see their showroom, see everything they're working on. Go bug Ryan or the team over there. And, yeah, and look at some of the cool products they got going on. McGowan professional chartered accountants. They've been dealing with the podcast and doing the books.

I tell you what, Kristen's pretty good. I got very, very high things to say about her. Just sat and had a conversation with her this week. You know, I'm dealing with some different things in the tax world. And, you know, I say this lots. You got to look for those people that just, like, light up when you're in and they're talking about whatever they do. And she is one of those fine people when it comes to dealing with tax.

taxes because I you know I books taxes it's just it's not over my head it's just yeah such a me just don't even want to deal with it anyways going in and dealing with Kristen has has been well worth everything she's been fantastic and of course if you're looking for somebody to deal with your taxes they also offer accounting and bookkeeping business consulting and training financial planning and tax planning so if that is up your alley mcgallon professional chartered accountants for everything go to mcgallon cpa.a.c a ignite distribution out of Wayne Wright, Alberta. They can supply automotive industrial safety and welding parts. They also offer on-site inventory management. So if you, you know, basically, you know,

they take care of making sure you never run out of whatever it is that makes you run. So, you know, take the pressure off, right? And if that's something up your alley, 780842-3433, that's Shane Stafford. Now, let's get on to that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, milubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm, commercial, or oilfield locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock.comptorlium.com. He's a former chief of the Critical Care Service and medical director

of the Trauma and Life Sports Center at the University of Wisconsin. He's considered one of the world pioneers in the use of ultrasound by physicians and the diagnosis and treatment of critically ill patients. He helped develop and run the first national courses in critical care ultrasonography in the U.S. and served as the director of these courses with the American College of Chess Physicians for several years. He's also the senior editor of the most popular textbook in the field titled Point of Care Ultrasound. He's a founding member of the FLCC Alliance and is the author of a new book, The War on Ivermectad. I'm talking about Dr. Pierre Corey.

So buckle up. Here we go. This is Dr. Pierre Corey and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. I'm joined by Dr. Pierre Corey. So, sir, thank you for making. some time for me. Thanks, Sean.

It's a pleasure to be here an honor. So me and me and Mr. Corey, Pierre, I don't even know what that happens. Just call me Pierre, Sean. I only ask patients to call me Dr. Corey, so please. It's, we're chit-chatting here for 10 minutes before we get started, but I was saying to him, I guess by the time this releases, it'll be a couple nights ago now, we had our for the kids' sake meeting in Lloyd Minster. And we had a lady name Regina Gomancombe.

and come and give a little bit of a talk on her experience with communism living in Poland, and she immigrated in 1986. And so I was saying to her was like, have you ever, is there a case in history where a country didn't have to go full on to totalitarianism, communism, to like for the public to realize, oh, this isn't good, and we shouldn't do this? Or do we have to experience it to finally go like, oh, we don't want this? And then it was Dr. William Maccas, who was on. stage with her goes well actually we just lived it for three years in Canada and I'm

like oh that's actually a really good point I like so we all know what it's gonna be if we don't fight this thing because we lived it here you know all the draconian lockdowns the the fact that six million ish maybe more Canadians weren't allowed to leave the country etc etc etc and and so it was a really really interesting night I'm kind of side railing us but I thought I would we were talking about that story so I thought we were I mean what I was saying to you, you know, you were talking about the people we've interviewed in your work in Canada. I just said, listen, what I've seen over the last three years, like Canada, Australia,

New Zealand, I mean, just, I've never seen countries transformed into this draconian totalitarianism, coercion, just the restrictions, the oppression, suppression, you know, use all the words you want. And, you know, I think for a lot of, I'm guessing, as I wasn't in Canada, But for a lot of Canadians, that was normal. It was an appropriate response to this health emergency, right? Like that is normal. And when you look at it, devoid of science, I mean, there was no science supporting those policies, never has been. I mean, lockdowns, I mean, most public health experts, anyone trained in public health, knew going into the COVID, you don't lock down.

That's never been a scientifically supported response. And yet, what happened? The world locked down. And none more so than those three countries. It was shocking. And the few people that really questioned and spoke out against it. And I got to tell you, I mean, the convoy for me was such a, well, initially it was a bright moment. I mean, finally, I was waiting for like when, and not to overstate, when are the people going to rise up against this?

And that convoy was so uplifting. Now, it was suppressed, censored in the media. and then obviously it ended somewhat tragically and you know oppressively but but you know that inspired the people's convoy in the U.S., which I was a part of. You know, I helped launch it. I was at the end. We went to Congress and it's just really inspiring. So I, you know, hurried of those Canadians that supported that convoy because it was necessary.

Yeah, well, as a guy who went and experienced Ottawa, I mean, it was it was quite the sight to see. and I always talk about, I don't know, I've kind of dubbed it the pilgrimage to Ottawa, because, I mean, in Canada, to get to Ottawa, it isn't like you hop on the bus and you're there in two hours. I mean, obviously, you're on the east coast or east side of Canada. It's a little different, but, you know, driving across the prairies and the dead of winter and then across the northern part of Ontario to get there, you're talking a lot of hours. And the amount of people on the side of the highway encouraging them to go was insanity in the best, form of the word, like the coolest form I've ever seen in my life. It's hard to recount it,

but I just, you know, like, it was just a pilgrimage. It was just, it was just wild to see, honestly, Pierre. Like, I don't know if I'll ever see anything quite like it. I would love to see it again, you know, but I don't know how you ever get back to the point where there's that many people braving minus 30 to minus 40 weather to sit on the side and wave flags and like, you know, it was just, it was amazing. Yeah, I mean, the same thing with the people's convoy in the U.S., you know, I actually didn't travel across the country, but I was there. I spoke at the start because there was a few days we were there. And then at the end, we were there for many days.

You know, the convoy was circling Washington. But the trip across, I mean, literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people lining the roadways, support in a convoy. And you didn't hear about it. It didn't appear in there. You literally had a country. And that is, you know, when we talk about totalitarianism, like, you, you, you know, you look at the history of those totalitarian countries, you know, whether it's, you know,

Soviet Union or North Korea. I mean, they don't, or China, right, with Tiananmen Square. I mean, it's censored. And you saw that happening in this country, an uprising that most Americans weren't aware of. And the really, the really unfortunate thing about the people's common in the U.S. is that it literally launched at the same time as Ukraine war broke out. And so it was Ukraine 24-7, yet we had an uprising here. And you heard way more about, not way more, all you heard about was Ukraine, you know, and I'll never forget that. Yeah, well, it's, you know, I always come at this with a little bit of a different lens, I guess,

because it wasn't in the middle of media, you know, I started a podcast, you know, working in the oil field. I was telling you a little bit, you know, I played hockey until I was 26, and then you come back, you start a job. And, you know, you got a family, and then you start a job. and you know you got a family and then you start podcasting because you know and and and so the story goes and and you know so I get thrown into this weird world where nobody's talking to you know I'll just go back to you know some of the the doctors like Roger Hodkinson or or Peter McCullough

you know it was talking to Nick Hudson out of South Africa and Julie Panessie and all these different names because nobody else wanted to talk to him I'm like well I'll talk to him like I mean I don't know what's going to happen here you know and and it's just like when you talk about the censorship, it's like, absolutely. We weren't allowed to talk to our own, like they didn't want people talking to one another. It's like, well, that's insane. It's like how we solve some solutions. And you were one of the guys early on that had the testimony about Ivermectin and all these different things.

And, you know, I was sitting there and I was going, oh, you know, this sounds interesting. And I don't know, you got to, you got to walk me through this. I mean, I just listened to actually, and I'm sure lots of my listeners have, to the Dark Horse. You were on the Dark Horse talking about your new book and Ivermectin and different things. And normally, Pierre, and we can kind of rewind this a bit. Normally, when it's your first time on the podcast, we talk a lot about your background. You've been such a public figure to a lot of my audience, including myself. I almost feel like I'm skipping over a part.

So we can talk about that or we can talk about your experiences through COVID, whichever you, wherever you want to start. I'm happy, let me just give a little overview and I'm going to try that to sound so. this isn't egotistical, but, you know, I'm triple boarded, right? So I'm trained in internal medicine, pulmonary diseases, and critical care medicine. And I, you know, my career prior to COVID, I was quite well known in my specialty. I was like one of the world experts in a field that I literally helped develop, which was the use of ultrasound in the ICU by doctors. So it's critical care ultrasonography or some people call the field the point of care ultrasound. where we literally taught doctors how to use ultrasound to image internal organs to make life-saving

diagnoses. And I became so fascinated by the power of that imaging technology. And now we have these small units. And, you know, I ended up writing a textbook with two colleagues. And it became, you know, one of the top-selling textbooks that's translated into seven languages. I toured the country, if not the world, for years, you know, putting on huge, course is teaching doctors everywhere how to use this technology. And so I was very well known in my specialty, published. I had a couple other areas of expertise in critical care medicine. And so that was me before COVID. And when COVID came out, Sean, I mean, you know, I'm a pulmonary and critical care physician. And I saw this pulmonary and critical care disease started to ravage

the world. You know, the images from China and Lombardy and then Seattle started getting hit in New York. I got hit and I'm a New York. I'm a New York. or I'm from New York. I was trained there. I trained a lot of doctors there. I worked there. You know, when COVID came out, I was the chief of critical care service and the head of the main ICU at the University of Wisconsin, which is one of the biggest research institutions in the country. And, you know, so I was a very prominent clinician. And, you know, I saw this disease coming. And, you know, one of my closest friends and colleagues is Professor Paul Merrick. And Paul Merrick is way more famous than I am in critical care. I mean, he is literally the most published practicing intensivist in our,

the history of our specialty. And, you know, a couple of the doctors had come to Paul because he's famous for his protocols. And they said, hey, you guys got to do something. You know, put out a protocol, put out a treatment guide and, you know, get some of your colleagues. And, you know, Paul asked me and three others. And we formed our nonprofit, which was the frontline COVID-19 critical care alliance or FLCCC. And all we sought to do was develop the most effective treatment protocols for COVID. And, you know, the first six months of the pandemic, we really just worked on a hospital protocol, right? Because that's where patients were the sickest. And, you know, what some people don't know is, you know, they remember my ivermectin testimony, but I testified in the U.S. Senate in May of 2020.

And I essentially told the world, you need to use corticosteroids in this, in the hospital phase of this disease. And that people were dying because they weren't being treated with corticosteroids. And I did that at a time when every national and international health care organization was saying not to use steroids. And so that was like my first brush with the system or the consensus. Now, the only thing I can say of all the fights, we shouldn't say fights, but all of the topics that I become expert at and advocated in COVID, that was the only win. I mean, when I advocated that, I got into a lot of, I got a lot of harassment after that. But two months later, Sean, corticosteroids became the standard of care worldwide overnight in the hospital phase. So I was pretty,

proven correct in my earlier testimony. But then let's go back, let's go to where it really gets where it really gets heavy, is that, you know, what we were doing was we were following all of the studies and trials on therapeutics, you know, preprint service, publications, you know, studying mechanisms. And we were constantly involving our protocol. And then what happened was Paul, you know, my partner, he started collecting the reports on Ivermactin. And we were seeing in these studies, which were just eye popping. Like different centers in countries around the world, health ministry reports of Ivermectin being used, and you had these large magnitude reductions in, you know,

not only death and hospitalization, with time to viral clearance, time to clinical recovery. And so Paul started talking about it on a meeting in our organization one day. He's like, this is really, he says, you guys got to look at this. And I jumped in right behind him. I started just doing nothing but reading and following the date around Ivermerect. McInty. And I wrote a review paper. Senator Johnson, who had invited me to testify already in May, he asked me again, he didn't like kind of an early treatment series of hearings in the Senate in December of 2020. And, you know, I gave that Ivermectin testimony. And I, you know,

I got triggered that day, Sean. Like some people don't know what to happen. But like, I was firing that. And the reason I was firing is because I used to be a liberal and a Democrat. I don't want to go into politics and what I think about government now. But my My views of government have drastically changed. But, you know, as has all of us, right? All of us, if you've been paying attention through this, everything's changed. So sorry to interrupt. No question.

And government is not what I thought it was. I used to have a very much more positive view of government and its capabilities. But, you know, what happened that day is that the hearing opened and the ranking member, the leading Democrat on the committee was the only Democrat who showed up. And he essentially insulted all of us experts that were invited by Senator Johnson as like political actors. And I was enraged. I was infuriated. Now, I didn't testify for another hour after that opening.

And he gave this statement and he walked out. He basically tried to discredit the whole hearing, insulted all of the invited experts. I mean, we're physicians and scientists. We're not politicians. And I was so enraged. And I think it led to a rather fiery testimony. and that testimony went viral. And, you know, it was a really fortuitous circumstance

because it really got the knowledge of, let's say the potential efficacy of a treatment. Because there was no treatments. I mean, there was no early treatments. They were telling you to stay home until your lips turned blue, which is absurd. There is no disease you cannot treat. You can, there is no disease you cannot treat.

And you should treat. There's no such thing as allowing a disease to progress and have patients deteriorate without intervening. I mean, obviously, you never want to do harm. you want to do things that are really, you know, that are safe and that are more likely to help than not, but you got to do so. You got a doctor. I mean, we're doctors.

And I'm seeing the whole world like not doctoring. And now we had some that we had tons of data that we knew we had, it was effective. And, you know, let me finish. And because you asked me like a little bit of my background in COVID because we'll stop here. But, you know, when I gave that testimony, I mean, I had no idea what was going to happen. There was no expectations. I was just delivering my research, my expertise, and my guidance, which is what I was being asked to. As a physician in society, I've always been an educator.

I mean, that's what I did. My whole career was really one of what's called a clinician educator. I took care of patients and I trained young doctors in training, residents, medical students. And I won awards at the major medical. I was like teacher of the year at two different major institutions. And so I'm by nature, someone who teaches. And here I was like trying to teach the world that there was an effective therapeutic identified. And I had no idea that basically what would happen to me.

I've lost three jobs in COVID. I've been roundly attacked and criticized that things that I have to read about me is just, I mean, let's laugh. When I read stuff about me, I'm like, that guy sounds terrible. I was like, what an incredible guy. I mean, who would listen to this man? And it's me. I'm just like, you know, anyway, but, you know, what happened there, and it took me a few months to figure out really what was happening. But, you know, what I discovered is that myself, Paul, and our organization had launched ourselves into a decades-long war on repurposed off-patent drugs.

It's the Achilles heel of the pharmaceutical industry. they do not want evidence of efficacy for older off-patent non-profitable drugs. And there's, I mean, there's decades of examples you could use in oncology, like cancer treatment, cardiology, psychiatry. They constantly want you to take the pricey new pill. And here you had a drug, Ivermectin, which posed a greater threat than any other drug in history into what it threatened, right? So it threatened the opening markets.

I mean, that testimony was literally a week before the vaccines were rolled out. So can you imagine worse timing? You have like what a market that's going to hit like a hundred billion. And Ivermactin would have decimated and threatened not only legally and like regulatory. Right. Because the EUAs, right, the emergency use authorizations were literally dependent on the fact that there was no alternative drug. No alternative treatment.

Yeah. And here's this loudmouthed, New York doctor who's like, hey, I've remembered it works. And, you know, what happened in my life afterwards, I think can be explained like that, is that I was bringing out what I would term science that was inconvenient to industry's interest. And that has been part of all of history, especially modernism. If you bring out science that's inconvenient to industry, your career is destroyed. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's what happened is we were working on science and we went to, We went to try to bring that science to the population, and that's what happened to us. You know, it's first, I just want to say quickly that, you know, as soon as I heard it, and I forget what,

show it was on, whether it was reading something, but as soon as it said, the only way you can have a vaccine with emergency use authorization is if there's no alternative treatments, I'm like, oh, bingo. Like, I read that. I'm like, like, I mean, I don't know if you have to even go past that. It's just like, oh, there it is. It's like so evident. and you show up from the rooftops and people didn't want to listen,

it didn't want to listen. It doesn't matter. It's like, oh, there it is. Like, they can't get it into other, you know, it's like, so they're going to just mothball all these different things. The second thing, the second thing that I think of, Pierre, from a, from a sales position, you know, I used to sell chemicals in the oil field

and people have their own thoughts on all that, but what happened to different oil field or like different companies in the oil field over time is so I, you know, you're the oil company, and I sell you a chemical, and over the course of years, you want the price lower. So over years, we just slowly negotiate and you lose all the profitability.

So then we come out with something new. Yeah. And then we take that thing that would have been working for you. And we say, oh, you know, they're not gonna manufacture it anymore. We take it off the shelf and say it's no longer there. And now you have to pay for this new drug. And it's not a drug, obviously. Chemical, whatever, yeah.

But chemicals, I mean, at the end of the day, if you lose all the profitability, and you know, And so it starts all over again. And so when it comes to drugs, I'm like, as a sales guy, I'm like, I actually really get it. It's like there's no profit in it. And they're looking for profit. They have a board of governors and they got to make their profits and they got to sell it to all the investors and on and on and on. The thing I couldn't figure out.

Like this is this. And I guess there's just more money and vaccines. But like, why couldn't, why couldn't they go and go like, I have an action actually works, take it and sell it for more and just way you go and erase it. but I assume it's because it was so available. Yes. And there's no way to like corner the market. That's what it is. I mean,

Ivermactin every country in the world. I mean, it's a little complicated of that industry and I'm not an expert out of it. When I learned, you know, there's actually only three producers of what's called the API, which is the active pharmaceutical ingredient. But they make so much. And there is compounders and manufacturers of Ivermectin all across the world.

I mean, it's used in livestock. Obviously, we know it's used. and livestock because that's the whole public health told us is that it's a horsey warmer, right? But I mean, it's a human drug. It's used across the world and has been for decades with billions of doses administered. And yeah, there's no money. I mean, I think, I'm probably going to get this wrong. I think it's two cents a pill in India, maybe five cents a pill in India. I mean, you can't make profit with that much manufacturing of it. It's all patent. It's funny. Like just as soon as I got my head around, it took a long time.

I don't know for you, but for me it took a long time. People had to drag me across the line of like, it's a business, Sean. It's a business. People's health is a business. This isn't about saving people. This is about making money and how they can turn a profit. And you're like, it can't be, like, that's, that's an unfair, like, let's save people. That's what I saw out of people like yourself and when I first had Peter McCle on was just like, we're trying to save people.

This is the best way to save people. Let's save people this way. And it wasn't like that, you know, once you start to see that there's, it's about money. And you follow that. But here's the thing about that, right? So I totally agree with you. Like it's a very simple concept to understand, you know, that you're threatening the profits, right? What I was ignorant of and what has really transformed me and what I've now an expert in is what happens is when you threaten that industry, what I, to me, what happened in COVID is that it exposed how the industry responds.

and how much power they hold over many institutions of society. And so I would become an expert in looking at how pharmacy industry responds to that threat. So what I want to say is so after that testimony, I didn't think there would be a ticker tape parade, but I thought people would appreciate the information that we had brought forth. I thought agencies would start deploying it systematically in the prevention and treatment of COVID. All of those good things. I thought like life was going to be different and better. But what happened was that within two days of that testimony, the Associated Press reached out for an interview.

And myself and the organization, we were over the moon. We were like, the Associated Press wants to interview me. So I can bring forth my day. And it was like a 30 minute interview. I listed all of the data and the trials and the studies and all of this stuff. And then the article comes out the next day. And it's a complete hit job. not only on me, but on the science.

And they basically just ridiculed and dismissed the idea that Ivermectin could work. They lumped it in with hydroxychloroquine. The reporter started writing about a couple who died after drinking like a fish cleaner fluid that had chloroquine in it. I mean, it was, you know, I saw that. And we didn't know, I was absolutely shocked. And we actually filed an ethics company. This is a long time ago before we knew anything about the world.

He filed an ethics complaint with the Associated Press because we'd never seen anything like this. I had never seen my science and my expertise be reduced to this crap. And it's interesting. We did see an email between the president, the CEO and the head of ethics of the AP because they did like an errant reply all. So we got to see a little of their conversation. And they were like basically telling each other like, let's figure out a way. Let's delay these people to get, you know, before we respond. We could see they saw that we were creating a problem.

Now, they did whatever they do, and they came out and said, there's no ethical concern here. But that was so here's my point, though, is, you know, that was beginnings of what I had to learn of what we were up against, right? So the Associated Press, you know, some, they send someone to do a hit job on me within two days of that. That was their first response. And everything continued to go sideways.

So like my review paper, 200 references, 36 studies, 6 studies, 6. randomized controlled trials, all of this epidemiologic data in my paper. It went through peer review at a prominent medical journal, past peer review, four peer reviewers, three high-level scientists from NIH and CDC, and my paper was accepted for publication. And then all of a sudden, the journal wasn't publishing it. It was an online journal. And people were dying. This is the winter of 21, you know, 2020, 2020, and they wouldn't publish. published this paper. The abstract got the most views of any abstract of that journal in its history. So that clearly the paper is really popular. And then all of a sudden, and then finally,

I lost it one day. And I wrote an email to the representatives of the journal. I said, I suspect scientific misconduct here. You're not publishing the paper. It's been accepted for peer review. And then that triggered the chief editor of all of those journals that controlled it. he basically just said we're retracting your paper. And no peer review, they didn't tell us what was wrong with our paper. He just said that he had gotten a complaint. He had asked an anonymous third-party reviewer who said that our conclusions did not match our data and to retract it. No opportunity for revision.

Like we had never had that. Like if you look at the five of us in the FLCCC, probably over 1,500 peer-reviewed publications in our careers over decades. Never once had we suffered a retraction. You can only retract really if there's fraud. or like plagiarism. And we weren't accused of either. It passed peer review. And that's when I started to see like how maybe deep this is going to get.

And what happened to me next is things, you know, then Merck comes out, says it doesn't work. I mean, they just plain brazen lies on their website. And that triggers. So that was February 4th, 2021. My paper was retracted like a week or two earlier. Then Merck puts these three statements on their website. You know, there's no reason why it should work in COVID. no clinical evidence that it works and also we don't even know if it's safe.

I mean, I've never heard anything so ludicrous, but here's what was most impressive about that. Not that a pharmaceutical company would print lies on its website, but those lies triggered massive news response. Papers all over the world started shouting these lies that Merck just put on their website. So I'm starting to see a world that I didn't know existed. And I'm I will tell you that the most transformed experience, it actually was March of 2021. I got an email one day from this guy, and I tell the story all the time because it was such a, it's such a important day in my life. But I got a two-line email from a guy named Professor William B. Grant.

And he's actually one of the world's leading researchers on vitamin D. He's got hundreds of publications in vitamin D. And he just says, dear Dr. Corey, what they're doing to Ivermectin, they've been doing to vitamin D for decades. And then he included a link to an article, which is called the Disinformation Playbook. And I clicked on the link and I'm reading this article and it just transformed me. Like everything this article said,

which is these five tactics that industry uses when science emerges, that's inconvenient to their, and all industries do this. Not just pharmaceutical industries, you know, oil and gas, energy, agriculture, food. They deploy these tactics. And these tactics actually were first made, first kind of created and deployed by the tobacco industry. And they're named after American football plays.

It's like the fake, the fix, the screen, the diversion. And I'm reading the examples of how they counter this science. And I'm like, saw that today. They did that to me yesterday. You know, three examples of that last week. And suddenly everything was happening in the world that I was confused about for months. It was like a click. everything made sense. I realized that myself, my colleagues and my organization were literally

fighting in a disinformation war. And they have way more firepower and tactics and control. And that's that's the point of what I want to say is that what I learned. So the concept of the fact that, of course, Ivermectin is going to be attacked because it threatens power. But how it was going to be attacked, the scope and the scale, the fact that basically it revealed to me that Farmer runs the agencies, the politicians, the media, and the journals, and most of all the medical journals. That is their biggest weapon. What appears in the high-impact medical journals of the world is what pharma allows to appear. And that's actually a chapter of my book, and I call it the big six, because the study is

supporting librahmanna. We have 96 controlled trials. No one's ever heard of that. You'll never hear that there's 96, right? There's 96 controlled trials, but I talk about what I call the big. big six. Those were the largest, and I'm using air quotes here, highest quality, rigorous trials of Ivermectin. These are the trials that are presented to the world that we're finally going to understand if Ivermectin is effective. They were heavily funded and they were unique

amongst the 96. Very unique in these respects. Number one, it was the only early treatment trials that had investigators drowning in pharmaceutical company conflicts. I mean, these are all people whose careers, you know, are essentially dependent on pharmaceutical agents. That's number one. Number two is they pulled these, the most brazen tactics I've ever seen in science, because they literally were designing studies to show that Ivermectin was not ineffective. And I saw all the tactics.

So they used the lowest dose as possible, the lowest duration. They treated patients as late as possible as they could get away with, and they chose the mildest patients. And they did it in countries where ivermectin was widely being used. It was over the counter, and they took steps to not exclude patients on ivermectin. So how are you going to show ivermectin is effective when the control group is on ivermectin. And because there was so much ivermectin being used, they had very low hospitalization and

death rates, and so you couldn't find differences. Well, and you add into that pair, sorry to hop in, but you add into the, average person doesn't get all that. No, because this is completely out of the realm. And the doctors that do, they just go, they're crazy, they're cooks,

and don't listen to them, and they silence you and push you down and everything else. So all the public cares is that Ivermectin doesn't work. Even though we're starting to watch the different independent media is starting to interview people such as yourself and McCullough,

and there's a whole list of people. And everyone's going... Sure, I want to say what you just said, that applied to me too. I mean, I knew how to read a study critically. I mean, but I'd never read it. I've never read studies so critically because I knew the motives.

What was shocking to me was how much I was finding, how many shenanigans, brazen, scientific misconduct in the designing control. And when I screamed and complained, of course, what are they going to say to me? Yeah, of course, you want to critique these studies. And then they would attack all the studies that I was using. And then all it does is it creates doubt, right? And then that's what you need to do is just create enough doubt. You know, one person says this, another one person says that.

No one knows who's right. And they essentially destroyed the evidence of efficacy for one of the most potent medicines in any disease model I've ever studied. And I saw how they did. And what I want to say is, though, the big six trials, they were the only trials published in the highest impact journals of the world. They came out and would publish every three months over the last two years. And each one generated a negative peer, like headlines, New York Times. Times, Boston Globe, LA Times. Large study finds Evermectin to be ineffective.

Do you know what it was like for my life to like wake up and see like the biggest newspapers in the world printing brazen scientific lies? And basically I just want to make that point is what I discovered is that pharma runs the game. And they run the journals, the media. And the 97 trials or 96 trials like they're all. published in like second and third tier medical journals because the big ones rejected all positive studies. I'm friends with a network of Ivermectin researchers around the world. They could not publish their studies, good, high quality studies, even from top universities. They would go to the Journal of American Medical Association, rejection. New England Journal of Medicine, rejection, rejection, rejection,

and then a couple of that sneak through to any some kind of prominent journal were getting retracted, like mine and Tess Laurie in the UK. I mean, You got to see this phenomenal control at the root of science. And I'm now estranged from the medical sciences because, and I didn't know that before. That's the thing. I did not know how deep and how controlled sciences if it's inconvenient to their interests and transforming. Well, man, it's interesting to hear you talk about it because you have such a, I don't know, a personal view of it, right? and and yeah it's funny like I I don't know if it's funny it's just you know when I

rewind the clock you know there there was doctor like doctors weren't allowed to prescribe up here they weren't allowed to prescribe ivermectin they could lose their license for it and you're like well that's odd you know and uh I remember Premier Scott Moe in particular Saskatchewan Premier uh saying you know all you farmers need to stop using ivermectin and give your head a shake and I you know exactly his terminology and I remember watching that going this is odd this is this is like extremely odd and then I had Peter McCle on and I asked him about taking horse Ivermectin and I really expected him to say don't do that that's a bad idea and

he's like actually Sean you know if you get the doses right it's fine and I'm like crap right like what have I unleashed here but the truth of the matter was is they were taking all the human Ivermectin and saying that it was bad and you were gonna die from it and all these things and I mean everybody remembers Joe Rogan and and what they did there with CNN and Sandra Gupta coming on and you're like, what is going on? Like, Gupta won't even say what's going. Like it's, it's, it's so ingrained and what they do of trying to frame a story. And I just, like when you, when you first talk, when we rewind the conversation to the EU, emergency use, and you go, oh, there it is. That's

why they're going to do it. I understood what they were going to do, but I didn't realize, I think what you're laying out. I didn't realize how much they controlled and how how they could just like really ridicule something to the point of like anyone that's associated with it no matter how much their expertise in it no matter how much research they've put into it it doesn't matter because they're going to frame you in a way and then they're just going to run you off and explore and hope that you just you know disappear and never come back i mean you know sean let's i want to go to the because you just brought up like kind of joe rogan and the pharmacies because so i already kind of talked about like the core right which is the trials how those trials were sales

through publication in the highest impact. And those trials stunk to high heaven. If I had done the same thing they did, I would never have been able to publish that trial. And I'm watching these trials with such brazen fraud all over them. And they literally sail to publication. It's hard to publish a paper in the New England Journal. I mean, you have to have your stuff tight. You have to really run a good trial. And I'm watching these things sail to publication. So that's one thing, right, the journals. Then I'm seeing the media uproar that those journals are triggering. But let's move now towards those agencies and the pharmacy. So here's the thing. Before we started talking or when we were off kind of camera, you mentioned that around August of 21, you started asking questions, interviewing people around COVID. Now, let's talk about August of 21 because what happened in August of 21 is the horse dewormer campaign was triggered. By the way, that was a PR campaign conducted by professionals. and they used every media power they could. And here's how it started.

In middle of August, I think it was August 13th of 2021, data came out showing the weekly prescriptions of Ivermectin in the U.S. And so I have a chapter on this. It's called the Horsesley Wormer Campaign. And it had a start and it had a sequence and you could see how they deployed it. And that's why, like, I didn't know they had this much power. But that data was extremely inconvenient. So Farmer's now seeing that we hit 19.

thousand prescriptions a week. That's just retail pharmacies, not compounding. And what you see is within days, the CDC sends out a memo to every State Department of Health, which then gets into the inbox of every licensed physician that states. The entire country within one day gets a memo from the CDC saying that overdoses are on the rise and poison. By the way, just that memo alone was completely fraudulent. They were overstating the injuries from Ibrahim. There were no injuries for Ever Magnet. They were. There were no injuries for Ever Magnetton. They were like phone calls where people were asking or they had taken a little bit and they weren't sure if they were sick. I mean, it was complete. Like, there was nothing there. But yet, think about how that is. As a doctor, you get a memo from the CDC who you trust, who has the public's interest at heart. And they're telling you, caution, you know, this drug is dangerous. And the FDA hasn't approved it for use, which is a complete misleading. It's a misleading statement because it's an FDA approved drug. And you can use FDA approved drugs for anything you want. It's called off label. But here they're saying, don't use it because the FDA hasn't approved it for COVID. So that CDC memo goes. Then if you remember the famous FDA

tweets, so now I'm starting to see this unholy alliance of public health agencies getting in on this anti-hyvermetic game. You know the FDA tweet. You're not a horse. You're not a cow. You know, stop it, y'all. That tweet goes unbelievably viral. So the PR firm that ran this thing, I'm sure they got big bonuses for that. Right. So then you have the FDA tweet. then the American Medical Association, the American Pharmaceutical Association puts out this bulletin, which I've never seen. We call for the immediate cessation of prescribing of ivermectin. So I'm seeing massive professional societies, our public health agencies, coordinate a sequence of events to destroy the idea that ivor meth could be effective. And when that memo, when that kind of memo came out,

suddenly pharmacists around the country, you know, arrogantly, we will not fill. And if you show up the counter asking for your Ivermetician, you're a crazy fringe, radical anti-vaxxer and your doctor's probably a quack at this point, right? So that's what they did. Pharmacists won't fill. Hospitals removed it from their formulary. And so you saw the sequence of actions and the consequences were literally depriving the population of access to Ivermactin.

And I mean, if this isn't a horror story that I'm describing, I don't know what else. And I really kind of, I tell this story in the book and in very, you know, clear, well-referenced sequences of everything that happened. And, you know, the book is really, I think of it as a, it's two things. It's autobiographical because there's a lot of other stuff that I did and happened to me in COVID besides Ivermectin. I mean, everyone knows of my work around Ivermectin, but I was involved in quite a few different papers and insights. So it's somewhat autobiographical, but it's really a case study in disinformation campaigns, how they're conducted, why they're conducted, and they're not new. I mean, Ivermectin is just a recent example, and I think it was just the biggest threat.

Actually, it's not the biggest threat. My book is called The War on Ivermectin. Someone could write a book called The War on Hydroxychloroquine, because that actually was the more damaging war, and I'll tell you why, because we knew, people knew that hydroxychloriccum worked when this thing broke out. And that was the first war. Everything they did to Ivermectin, they had done the hydroxychloricid from fraudulent trials and the journals and the newspapers and the narratives.

And had hydroxychloroquine deployed in early 2020, we would be, the world would be very different today. So the first is they extinguish evidence of efficacy around hydroxychloroquine. By the time researchers around the world discovered the efficacy of Ivermectin, that was kind of 2021. The only reason why we became so well, we were not the first. I mean, India, many states in India were already using Ivermectin months before my testimony. There were places around the world that knew it were. We just were very highly published and credentialed. And so we, and that testimony, you know, went viral. So we got, I think people think of us as, as those

who identified it, but not at all. Not at all. In fact, within two weeks of my testimony, Mexico City launched a huge Ivermectin early treatment program, but not because of my testimony. Clearly, they've been planning it for a while. So it's not like we had new news, but, but, you know, anyway, the book is really used as an example of what pharma is capable of and how they do it. And, you know, because again, I'm a teacher, and I think that book, I want that book to be not only almost like a teaching document, a teacher's addition to how the world really works in science, but also it's a historical record. I want history to remember what happened here, what

they did. Millions of lives around the world were lost because of that war on Ivermacta. Well, for the listener, I'm going to put a link in the show notes that takes you to your book. That way, if they want to go grab a copy, they can. While I'm on it, the disinformation playbook is that an art when did you say that article was written was it 20? So that was written in 2017 I think the first. Union of Concerned Scientists is that the article? So for the listener because I already can hear them typing me, I'm going to put that in the show notes as well

because I haven't read that I look forward to reading it because that's that'll be you can actually funny enough you can put it in Google and it comes up as the first hit if you just put in the disinformation playbook that article comes up first hit and yeah But that was written in 2017. And it has all of these examples of disinformation campaigns. And one of the most shocking, which had so many overlap, what happened to me and my organization, is the NFL with chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

Right. So the retired football players who are developing like psychosis and dementia and they, you know, they were dying. You know, there was a pathologist who discovered that they all had these microhemages. And as that pathologist, as any doctor would, was trying to bring out that science, right? Because you want to help people. You want to let people know that, you know, knocking your head in tackles for three decades can lead to this disease. And when you see what the NFL did to him and how they use journals and to suppress them and they put out contradicting science. I mean, it was literally I've met with.

But that was, and there was a movie about that. Yeah, Will Smith. Concussion, right? Yep. And so, you know, that's, but they have lots of examples of disinformation campaigns, again, when science emerges, that's inconvenient to their interests. And nothing could be more inconvenient to the NFL than that science. Now, here's the thing. NFL is a $9 billion industry.

Pharma trillion. It's like $1.4 trillion. So, you know, if the NFL can do that as a $9 billion industry. This pharma industry certainly can. Yeah, insanity. I want to, you know, with a few minutes left, I know we got a little bit of time, but I want to make sure that we bring up the FLCCCC. Because I think different protocols, if there's vaccine injured, because I've definitely had some different stories on here. I've heard different people from the community, et cetera, et cetera.

And I want to start here because I think this is like a feather in your cat. And it's it's was back on May 5th. I interviewed McKenzie and Seth Bluen, listeners will recall. She was a girl that was playing goalie for Notre Dame Hounds. That's hockey in Saskatchewan and high level hockey in Saskatchewan. She had to get vaccinated in order to play. And you know, almost immediately of doing that, you know, over the course of months, her health just starts to deteriorate, you know, and I've seen these videos of McKenzie walking

where she has like can't control her legs. I don't know how better to explain it than that. And when she was sitting here on, you know, back in May, one of the things that she kept saying, you know, is I like, I got pretty bad brain fog and like I haven't got control of my body and blah, blah, blah. Anyways, they started working with FLCCC. And yesterday,

I was sent by her father, a bunch of videos of her, like, working out and, like, doing footwork and stuff. Like, it's amazing. Like, it, uh, the progression is insane again in the best possible way and he he just wanted Seth wanted me to say to you please thank him for me I will never get the chance McKenzie was in trouble without his service and your help with Frances Christian so I reached out to a

bunch of doctors that I'd had on and they pointed me in your direction and so I think that's like important for people to hear when they're like if we're vaccine injured is life over or you know like what do we do now this is a 17 year old kid that you you know, was in tough straits. And now, like, the progression is pretty insane. And I'd sent him a text this morning because I want to make sure I could clarify that I could actually say that on here and he was okay with it. And he said 100% his service probably saved her life.

And I can't thank him enough. And so anyways, I thought that, I thought that's pretty cool information to share with yourself. Let's talk about that, right? So, you know, when I said, you know, our original mission was to develop the most effective treatment protocols for COVID. I mean, at first it was hospital. Then we had early treatment and prevention because Ivermectin is a wickedly effective preventative, much more so earlier in the pandemic. I mean, it still works now, just not as well. But so we had early treatment, prevention, hospital. And then, you know, we started to see this long COVID thing. And it was interesting.

My first couple of experiences treating long COVID actually worked. And I was like, I was shocked. I ever mentioned it's actually really helpful there. And so we put out a protocol in June of 21. That was our first one. It had a few things on it and it's very different now. But that's all I do now. In fact, I will tell you that I stop going into all the rabbit holes. That's what I do.

So let's be clear. So the FLCCC is a nonprofit. It's really an education organization. So we have a document on there. We call it a protocol. It's called the I recover protocol. But it's really not a protocol. because it's really a compendium of compounds and medicines and interventions which can work in this disease.

But there's too many of them. I don't use all of them, number one. Number two, actually, so that's the FLCCC. I have a private practice. That's all I do, me and my partner, all we do is we see long COVID as well as vaccine injured. And we see patients with the syndrome of long COVID and vaccine injury. And I say syndrome because there are vaccine complications and then there are syndromes. And the syndromes are very much alike.

And that's what we, and that's Dr.P.R.Corey.com. By the way, I have quite a few patients that I treat and guide in Canada. And so I see patients all over the U.S. and even in other countries. But, you know, there, so let me just describe the syndrome. So every patient I see has essentially three-quartered. symptoms. And those three are fatigue, varying amounts, oftentimes disabling, a very closely related symptom, which is post-exertional malaise, which is that if they try to exert themselves, and we're not even talking exercise. I mean, some patients, if they walk to their mailbox

and back, they're decimated for the rest of the day. But like any sort of exertion worsens their other symptoms or their fatigue. So it's fatigue, post-exertional malaise. And then what you said, some amount of brain fog. They all have a cognitive deficits, like memory, processing, focus, attention, sometimes even disorientation. They get confused. And so many of my patients were in the heights of health before this. Like before the vaccine, I mean, eating well, exercising, great careers, raising families, and now they're literally disabled in their homes. They can't do anything. And so out of, those are the three core ones. And then I call all the rest is a side menu. And in order frequency, it's neuropathies, burning, pain, tingling, pins and needles, numbness, even motor problems where they

have weakness in their arms or legs. Then I see lots of what's called disautonomia. So, disregulated control of the autonomic nervous system, like heart rates and blood pressure. And that's what limits a lot of them in exercise. I mean, I have patients who walk across the room, their heart rate is 150. I mean, it's really hard to get your heart rate to 150. They're doing it, like, going to the bathroom. And so it leaves patients, like, unable to function. And, you know, in my practice, it's funny, there's the FLCCC protocol. I do bunches of stuff that's not on there. And that's the reason of that is Paul, Paul is the final arbiter of what goes on that protocol. And he's very strict on what he puts on. He only puts on things that have significant amount of clinical

evidence to show that it's effective either in this disease or in related syndromes that have similar mechanisms, whereas I'm using things that don't have as much clinical data, but I know works. And so I have a little bit different approach. It's largely guided on that. And this story that you just told me of this young girl, she's one of the success stories. Because I will tell you, I'll say this, all of my patients get better to some extent, oftentimes. times large, sometimes modest. And then I have a cohort that I really struggle with. They're so sick. And the improvements that I've achieved in them are really quite small. And so it's a really complex disease. And it's really challenging to treat, but it's inspiring. And by the way, you know this,

Sean, right? Vaccine injury syndromes don't exist, right? There's no papers on that. There's no publications on the syndrome. There's no trials on how to treat it. there's no centers of excellence for it. I mean, have the doctors up here won't acknowledge it. No, no, it doesn't exist. And if you bring it up, you're crazy. They'll send you to psychiatry.

I mean, this is the world we live in. And so, you know, one last thing I'll say is that, like, in the U.S., at all of these big academic medical centers, they have long COVID centers that they developed, right? They don't have protocols. They don't have treatments. It's like endless referral and physical therapy, which, to be honest, physical therapy in these patients is the last thing you want to do.

You don't want to stress them with exercise. In fact, you want to rest them and pace them. But there's no vaccine injury clinics. It's just long COVID. Now I think of long COVID as kind of a euphemism for vaccine. If you go, you can try to tell them it was a vaccine that started it, but they're just going to call it COVID related. But anyway, it's a wickedly challenge disease. I'm learning something every day.

I have a huge collaborative network of doctors from different disciplines and specialties from. Well, and I wanted to make sure. I knew it was a, they'd passed along the name, and I couldn't remember who it was, and it's Scott Marceland. I hope I'm saying that, right? That's my partner. Yeah. So that's who they've been dealing with. And, you know, once again, I think it's so cool for the listener to hear, like, kind of the full story, right? Because it was only May when we had her on and it blew it, you know, that was a big thing.

I mean, it's June, folks. You know, like, I'm going like this. It's been two months since she was on, and he's sending me videos now of her, like, working out. She's running half a mile. she's in like literally I don't know like two months ago I'm thinking like you know she's she's guided in how she walks you know like very conscious of how she's moving and now she's doing all these these skills again and you're like this is really cool and once again I'm pointing I wanted to really bring a point this out because the story of ivermectin is extremely interesting but there's a

ton of people right now searching for answers that have had problems with whether they call it long COVID, whether they call it vaccine injured, whatever they call it, they're looking for solutions. And one of the things we've talked a lot about and seen and heard from different people is there's a lot of doctors that don't want to talk about it or we'll talk about it quietly, but they don't know what to do. And people have been searching for different answers. And some of them have answers up here. Others have reached directly out to Seth and have tried to, you know, to find his way and everything else. And so to have you on and talk about it, I think it's like full circle kind of thing.

I love it that you brought up a case of Scott. So Scott's my partner. He is absolutely just brilliant. And he's so caring of his patients. And, you know, what's interesting is he and I are literally figuring this out together. I mean, our approaches and what we treat has been evolving over. Like, we start emphasizing different things, different orders. And just because we're learning from each other.

And we're on the phone all the time. We're sharing our clinical experiences and insights and talking to others. And, you know, there's no cure yet. I mean, we can definitely help patients. And I'm glad that this girl was one of Scott's success stories. And he has a lot, but we also struggle with some. But, yeah, Scott's great. And, you know, at the risk of sounding self-promotional, you know, I want to help.

But, you know, send people to my practice. We're really happy to help. Well, I don't think it's self-perone. The heck, that's why I'm bringing you on, right? Yeah. Like, to me, people are searching for answers. We're trying to give, I don't have the answers, but I can certainly try and bring people on to the show.

that can talk about it and at least give them options, right? Because when you have no options, it feels freaking hopeless. We all lived it. Like we lived through the time when there was one option. They were only giving you one. Do this or life ends and you get ostracized from society and everything else. And so like, you know, let's take away the fear. Let's try and give people the option or options, different ways of getting their life back on track and moving on.

And I mean, you know, there's a whole lot to be to be said of. of exactly what we led off with with the first 40 minutes. But right now, a ton of people are terrified that they're never going to get life back or they're never going to, and, you know, to point out some options in what you're saying, I don't care about self-promotion. It's like, it's a good option. Yeah, no. And that's why, like I, you know, I said at the risk of sound of self-promotion, but I also

want to be honest, I literally know that these patients are underserved, abandoned gaslit, and suffering. And so we have answers. You know, I can't promise cures or improvements, but boy, we generally, we generally able to help people. And it's very satisfying. And we want to do this. You know what they, what I've heard from people, because Seth and his daughter are not the only ones that have gone through you. And what I've heard is, it's just nice to be told, we believe you.

Like, you're like, you know, that's a sad state of affairs where that's probably the first thing that gets said is just like, yeah, we understand. It's so sad, you know, that abandonment and gaslighting. It's all the psychopathology from three years of unending propaganda censorship. And really, unfortunately, mistruths and lies being circulated. So people are thinking strange. I use the term, the world's gone mad. But it's not their fault. It's this unrelenting propaganda censorship.

People have strange ideas, and they're not forgetting how to behave. And, you know, let me end on the sadness. And we can stay on something positive. But there is a continuous. continuing consequential tragedy to this Ivermectin more because although the Varen is milder now, we're not seeing as much death or hospitalization. I mean, it's a much milder disease and it's been that way for a while. The challenge is in long COVID and vaccine injury, Ivermectin, in my experience, has been the most effective treatment. I would want to say it works

from everyone. In my experience, it's been about 70% of my patients will respond positively. But here's the thing. They need it daily and oftentimes for long periods, but now you're talking about we're living in these advanced health economies where you can't get hyvermectin, you know, and so like there's people suffering again from these chronic syndromes who now can't get access to an effective medication. And my guess is this woman that you talked to. I don't know her case or anything, but my guess is that she's an ivermectin responder because I'll tell you in my practice, Those that respond to Ivermact, and the responses vary. Sometimes they're really large.

Sometimes they're much more modest, but the ones who don't, I know that the road ahead is going to be hard. My Ivermact and non-responders are much more difficult to treat. And so if she got better quickly and was doing so well, my guess is that she's responded to that. Well, I won't act like I know. Yeah, I don't know either. For the audience, if they're wanting to figure that out, then, you know, they can certainly reach out to me because I put a lot of them in contact with Seth Bloom.

and certainly have pushed them your guys' way. In saying all that, with a couple minutes left, just wanted to say, I really appreciate you hopping on and doing this, making a little bit of time. Is there anything else that we haven't skimmed over or anything like that that you want to make sure moving forward? You know, the Crude Master final question has been,

you know, what's next and how can we help? And I don't know what that is for Pierre. Well, yeah, let's, I don't want to try to end on a positive note. You know, I've learned really disturbing things of how the world works, especially the world of medical sciences and, you know, even the wider world, a lot of the institutions, you know, I've had to learn some uncomfortable truths about them. But I will say there's a lot of us,

and I want to include you, who are really working to continue to, you know, be honest and open and truth and give guidance and education. And if you think of our organization, I think we have a really big future. I mean, Paul Merrick just, we just, posted on our website, he spent months and he has a scientific monograph of all of the clinical evidence for repurpose therapies in cancer. Treatments for cancer, you'll never hear your oncologist tell you, but of which there's immense amounts of science for, right? And again, so maybe we'll continue to fight the corruption science, but we just want good information to be available for people. And so,

you know, you know, he, Paul worked on cancer. I'm immersed in trying to figure out this vaccination. injury and long COVID thing. I mean, there's an absolute, you know, millions of people who are suffering from those conditions. And I think there's no more important disease to study and work on than that. And so we have a lot of work ahead. You know, I lost three jobs. I'm no longer a critical care doctor, but I have a practice now. And I like my career. And I'm outside of that system. I'm fee-based. I don't deal with any, you know, insurance companies. I actually practice under the auspices of an Indian tribe. So even the state medical boards have no jurisdiction over me. It's the tribal council that does. And so, you know, we need to build parallel systems.

Not only media, independent media podcast. I mean, that's the only, we have to build a parallel system. The system's been captured. And so I'm happy to come on and talk to you. And I hope you keep speaking truth and getting good information out because people are starving for good, accurate, honest information with integrity. Well, that's one way to end it. Thank you, sir, for hopping on and doing this with me, give me some time. I hope it's not the only time we ever get to chat. I hope we can convince you to come back on this and share some more information.

Anytime, Sean. My pleasure. It's great talking to you.