Shaun Newman Podcast - #463 - Dale Wilker

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

He's an architect who draws weekly editorial cartoons called “Tales From The Great Unwashed”. He operates the Old Blue Truck Farm in Invermere BC which does farm tours bringing over 400 kids a year to get their hands dirty, puts on soil workshops and help build a 3000 sq ft community greenhouse as a teaching facility connected to their local high school. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Patreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

This is John Verviki. This is Simon Esler. Hi, it's Heather Prozac. This is Tom Romago. This is Alex Kraner. This is Steve Kirsch. This is Dr. Pierre Corey, and you are listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

Happy Wednesday. We got a good one on tap for you today. If we get there, let's get to today's episode sponsors. Blaine and Joey Stefan over at Guardian plumbing and heating. They're home at the Guardian Power Station, bringing free electricity to everyone as well as the reliable off-grid solutions, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Beyond. They're also looking for people. So if you're in need of a job, they got great benefits, awesome wages, great team,

looking for plumbers, HVAC, techs, installers, and apprentices. For more information, go to guardianplumbing.ca, where you can schedule your next appointment at any time. The deer and steer butchery, butcher shop here based in Lloyd Minster, is looking for a butcher. They're looking for team member as well. And so if you've got a background or if you're interested in getting involved in, and having a real hand in the deer and steer, give them a call 7808708700. That's here in Lloyd Minster. And once again, if you're as we get closer and closer, we're not that close,

but we're getting closer to hunting season or if you just got a cattle, a cow, a cattle. Anyways, what am I thinking here, folks? If you have an animal that you need to get butchered, you can call and get that scheduled as well. And I always point out, because I got to do it last summer, was getting my head. hands in there and helping along with it and learning some things. I thought that was a really cool experience. And if you want to have that ability, they provide that as well.

Erickson Agro Incorporated out of Irma, Alberta. I got to, okay, so I got to go down there this weekend. I tell you what, Irma, Alberta, they got some stuff going on down there. I got to tell a short little story. I hope Kent and Tasha will be okay with me stealing their ad spot for this. but I mean they're family farm raising four kids growing food for their community and this great country. They teamed up with the podcast. And then they invite me down for this golf tournament.

Bob Stauffer radio for Oilers now on all the color commentator for all the Oilers games. You had Jerry Johansson, who's I think Swoffer said, fourth largest NHL agency agency in the NHL, I should say. And then you had Daryl Sutter, of course, two-time Stanley Cup winning coach, coach of the year, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and they did their golf. So Irma has a nine-hole golf course, beautiful. Like a nice little hidden gem, to be honest. I wasn't sure what to expect. And then they have a brand-new school.

Four years old, they said, and that's where the banquet was held that night. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm like, how is it that you can sell alcohol in a school gymnasium? And they're like, oh, actually we, and I'm going to butcher this a little bit, folks. So, but I thought it was super cool. They fundraised a whole bunch of money so that they could call the gym the community hall. So it functions like a gym, but it has the ability to be rented out like a community hall.

It has a stage. It has, you know, the area for the food preppers to, like, cook a meal and, like, have it all ready, like a full-on kitchen. Like, it feels like a hall inside of school. I'm like, wow, dual use. That is friggin' sweet. and I encourage you if you're, you know, you're in a small community and you're wanting a good idea. Irma Alberta knocked it out of the park. Hey, I'm telling you.

Anyways, great people out there. I really enjoyed my Friday. I'm happy that Kent offered it up and I took advantage of that. It was a ton of fun and hats off to the Irma community because it felt like you understand why their ball and their hockey is, well, kind of like folklore, you know. people talk about the talent that's there. Pretty cool to see. Of course, Carson Sousie as well was in the attendance, and now he is the new defenseman of the Vancouver Canucks.

So I was hoping, you know, maybe the Oilers could pull something out there. But, yeah, what are you going to do? Happy to see the Canucks Lanham. That's a pretty good defenseman. Got to see that firsthand in the playoffs. Finally, three trees, tap and kitchen. Of course, when you're looking for live music, they do that periodically.

When you're looking for some of the best beers in town, they got it all on their on tap there, local, good stuff. Or if you just want excellent food, twos would recommend the food. He says it's just phenomenal. Call 780, 874,

7625 book reservations. I should point out one other thing. The Patreon account is back up and rolling. I've been talking with a bunch of the Patreon's, but, you know, like what do you want out of this experience? You know, you're paying for behind the scenes. What do you want to see?

And they wanted to see some Tuesday mashup bloopers or some early banter. And so me and Tuesday are going to work on that. We'll see what we can do there. And then, of course, they were hoping for some inside access at new shows coming up, possibly hearing some of the ideas coming up firsthand. So we're going to be working on some things that way that you won't get on the podcast here. be for Patreon and yes Patreon is a paid wall and so I completely understand

if you don't want to do that but if you're that interested you just go to Patreon and the show notes click on it you can kind of start to see a bit about what it's all about and would love to have you over there now let's get on to that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum for the past 80 years they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels lubricants

methanol and chemicals delivering to your farm commercial or oil field locations for more information visit them at Hancockpetroleum dot CA he's a Senior project manager for Quiniscoe Homes 2020, an architect who publishes a series of editorial cartoons called Tales from the Great Unwashed. He's the soil whisper, Dale Wilker. So buckle up.

Here we go. Hi, I'm Dale Wilker, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. I'm sitting with Dale Wilker. So first off, sir, thanks for making the tour out east. It sounds weird to say out loud because, I mean, obviously I feel like I'm a westerner, but coming from BC, I mean, you're making the tour. No, it's great. I grew up listening to my father's stories about going out west,

so that's where I've been headed most of my life. It's good to come east, I guess. You're saying, did you say your grandparents or your parents homesteaded in? My mom's parents were from Romania originally and German part of Romania. So Schmitz is their last name, and they homesteaded near Lund Lake. So, yeah, it was interesting. They never, my mom had never been back to see the place in about 10 years. years ago we ended up taking a tour up there trying to find the old homestead.

And the only thing my mom had was my uncle's birth certificate which said he was born on Range Road X or whatever it was. So we go to Range Road X and nothing there, like there's nothing saying that the Schmitz were ever around and we asked all over the place and never found. So we ended up the beauty built Saskatchewan is all these little towns have these little museums or whatever that talk about their history. And so we started going through some of these museums and looking at these old books and eventually found the Schmidt's name. And it was actually nowhere near Loon Lake. It was more near Meadow. What's a place just

kind of east of there? Meadow Creek or whatever. So anyways, that was quite interesting. So we found the place that it was kind of not really good farmland. And that's Probably why they moved back to Ontario. But it was, yeah, it was an amazing trip. Well, you got to tell me, you know, I pick on that right away because you just mentioned it, I found that fascinating, you know, to be somewhere from the vicinity, you know. But you got to tell me a little bit, you know, for the listener,

I'll do my, you know, my bit here. It's like I get emails and I get text from a lot of people. And yours, your first one that you sent me, and then you continued to send me a few months. more over the course of roughly a year. Always stuck out to me, not be, well, certainly because of what you were talking about, but at the bottom you always had these cartoons of the old blue truck farm. And I was like, hey, that just sounds cool, right?

Like, I mean, in general, it just sounds cool. But you've got to tell me some of your story because, you know, this kind of, you know, I remember thinking it back then, I was so preoccupied, and then you sent me another email. I should just invite them on, right? Yeah. And so anyways, you're making it all the way down here. and it's funny I'm like ramming through so many podcasts this weekend. I don't know actually when this will come out,

but regardless, it will come out. But you're here for the weekend to see Longo Craneard to taking the event and you've made the tour all the way down. So you got to, for me, I know a little bit of your background, certainly not a whole lot. No, you basically don't know anything about me. And for the audience, they know, they know Zilch.

So let's talk a little bit about Dale as we, you know, and let them get a feel for you. Yeah. basically grew up in southern Ontario. I kind of grew up in a family where alcoholism was a problem, so that posed a bit of a challenge. And as a young curly redhead small kid, I actually know what the inside of lockers look like.

So, you know, getting stuffed into lockers by bullies and stuff like that. So I kind of look back at that as actually a badge of honor. And it's really those kind of life experiences really fine-tuned my bullshit meter, as I like to say. So I've learned to a question authority, or those that think they have authority over you anyways. And that's pretty much guided me through my life. High school, finished high school, ended up kind of an average student, went to college. And I wanted to be an architect and went to Windsor for college. And then Ontario back in 81 was in a major recession.

There was really nothing going on. So a bunch of us went out west and found work in Calgary and Edmonton in those areas. So ended up working in Calgary, meeting my lovely wife. And I guess I was 30 some odd years ago. So she stuck with me that long and all through my craziness. And have two lovely children. basically we they're in their late 20s early 30s so they're basically enjoying their life these days much like we were and then I guess when they were born we decided that you know we didn't want to live in a big city

Calgary at the time was a big city it wasn't small so we ended up basically trying to figure out where we wanted to live and we looked at Kindersley, Saskatchewan and we looked at Invermere and decided that maybe Invermere had a bit more of the things that we like to do, like skiing and biking and whatever, windsurfing and hiking and all that sort of stuff. So moving there and no regrets. I mean, it's a beautiful place. I know, you picked a nice spot. To raise a family.

I mean, Lloyd Minster is pretty nice, but, you know, Invermere is a close set. Yeah, I don't know if Lloyd was on her radar at the time. but yeah I grew up in a small town in Ontario so it's like small town life was kind of the way we lived so it was nice my wife's from Calgary so she grew up in Calgary there and it's still fairly close we get back to visit relatives and things like that well you know I my brain goes always 12 different directions right I'm trying to mine 13 but yeah sure well then we have the same problem I go I go like you've driven a long way and I read back through all all the emails and I'm like well we can certainly talk about 12 different things if you want

but I feel like you got something on your mind to make all the way across here and I assume it starts with energy I that's I assume that's where we're going but maybe I'll let you take it and and then I'll you know do what I do and poke holes and ask questions and you know because you know like to me for the listener I'm like you know I'm not sitting here saying I extend the invite to just anyone. But lots of times it's not like somebody, you know, you go, hey, you're in Emmington. Why don't you drive out? And they're like, some are just like, yeah, can we just do it virtual? Me and Dale gets talking. He's like, no, I'm just going to drive out. I'm like doing the math of my head. Well, there's something on his mind then. So, you know, let's talk, because you've

done some really cool things. But let's talk about energy. Yeah. And I, I mean, energy. I mean, energy, listening to your podcast for quite a while, it's a topic that really hasn't come up much. You're living in the energy capital of Canada, right, basically? But energy is everything. Everything that's alive in the world today depends on energy. And most of it is the energy that we grow and eat and consume sort of thing. the um and it's been that way ever since the beginning i mean back in hunter-gatherer times uh you would go out and gain enough energy or whatever to survive that day and the next day you would have to do it all

over again right um and uh well heck we were just talking about uh last night with long going cranor we're literally talking about 100 years ago in this area when the settlers came over yeah that's basically what their life was for, you know, at least a few decades, right? Yeah. Like the old farmstead, you know, 1905, that isn't that long ago. And the stories from the groups that came over then are pretty like, I mean, when you talk about day by day, I mean, that's pretty much what they were doing. Yeah.

I mean, we are weak people compared to those people, right? They say that all the time. I mean, the amount of effort and stuff they put in just to actually survive. is like unbelievable. But yeah, we take energy for granted just because it's so plentiful these days. We don't have to do that anymore. And what I've learned over time,

and it's not something that, it's something I've learned, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants that have presented this to us. But basically energy is what we need to survive. whether it's food, whether it's fossil fuels, whether it's wind and solar, whatever it is, that's what we've used to create our civilizations.

And I think I mentioned in one of my emails about peak oil and the fact that we are one of the master resources in the world, which is oil. Yeah, well, I mean, I think when Alex Epstein was on, he was talking about, you know, basically we're, you know, you take away fossil fuels and we don't exist well I mean a huge portion of the human population doesn't exist right like we're that's what's prompted to where we are yeah pretty much it's basically what's created civilization I mean civilization civilization depends on surplus energy so surplus energy is what we spend it's our it's our bank account basically and um I guess it was 05 was when I first discovered peak oil, and it really, that's what changed my life.

We used to be just happy to live, survive, do sports, go camping, you know, all that sort of stuff and not think about it, just kind of blissfully enjoying life. And in 2005, for me anyways, that changed. I read an article on peak oil and then started digging into more of what's called Eroy, energy return on invested. And Eroy is basically an equation that says for every unit of energy you expend, you get a certain amount of energy back. So say, for example, back in the early days, 100 years ago,

when they discovered Leduc or whatever, they would stick a straw on the ground, and basically the stuff would just come gushing out. and it was super rich, super premium oil. So they'd put one unit of energy effort to get that oil out, and they would get over 100 times that back in energy effort. So it had an energy relation or energy return on a vested of 100 to 1. Back in the hunter-gatherer days, you're one-to-one, right?

You have one-day's worth of energy to spend, and you go get your stuff. If you're really good, you get two days worth of energy, spend that second day writing poetry or whatever you wanted to do, right? You had that surplus energy and you could spend that. So we've gone through those times, even in medieval times. I mean, basically you had a Eroy of two to one. So the serfs like us would just go around and do the work and whatnot. And the kings would take that extra one unit of energy, gather it up by hundreds of thousands of people or 10,000 and spend it. So that was there. surplus energy, right? That's how it displayed itself in those times. And nowadays, we're all living

like kings. I mean, with that 100 to one energy, we can do all kinds of things that are, I don't know, I wouldn't say useless, but basically things that are non-relevant that are non-critical for us to survive. You know, like we can go to theaters, we can go traveling all over the place. We can... The basic necessities of life are taken care of and then some. So you get to have a podcast and sit here and not worry about where my next meal is coming from. Yeah, you're not hunter and gathering, right? Yes. So that's surplus energy and that's the Eroy that we're living with.

And what I've discovered, I mean, there's groups like the Hall group that have actually studied all these different energy sources that we have and determined what the energy return on investment for those are. And back in the good old days, Leduc was well over 100 to 1, Saudi Arabia, the same thing. Then you kind of go into the 50s and 60s, and all the great resources were found or discovered or starting to use up, and those wells were dwindling, and we were starting to get down into the 50-to-1 ratio for Eroy. And currently, we're actually in the 15-1 ratio. So we've got a surplus that used to be 100 to 1, and we're now down 15 to 1. And that's the challenging part. So areas like Saudi Arabia, for example, some of their wells are still maybe 30, 40 to 1,

but they're to the point where they're actually pumping seawater into their wells to get that stuff out. And things like they're all sands and whatnot. There's so much energy to go in to get the water. that stuff first in the first place, and then to distill it out of the sand or the rock. The way I'd always, the way I remembered in college, if you could believe this, geez, what is that now? 15 years ago. I'm not that old, but geez, I'm trying to remember now.

You're way younger than me. Somebody had ever, somebody had, we were at, like, you know, a very, like, a very liberal school, like a very, like, I was the odd ball there. But I remember one of the students asking the professor about, you know, would we ever run out of oil? And he said, nope. He will never run out of oil. The problem is that eventually it's going to cost so much to pull it out of the ground or find it wherever. Because he was talking about the seafloor and just a bunch of different.

And he's like, the cost to get it, now you need oil to be at a certain price to go, you know, refine it. That's kind of, I guess that's the way I'm hearing from you. Anyways, that's what comes to mind. Well, it's like picking fruit off the tree. You always get the lower ones first. And eventually it's not worth your life to fall off a ladder to go get that top apple off the tree. And it just sits there for the birds. But yeah, speaking of cost, I mean, I think that actually money is a proxy for energy.

Basically, it's a way of valuing energy, whether that's your physical work that you do, whether it's the oil that is really just energy slaves for us, or whether it's some other type of energy. So money is just a way of valuing effort, and the effort that we use on this earth is energy, whether it's food or whatever. So if you think we will never run out of oil, you're correct because we never will.

There's going to be stuff left in the ground that's just not worth. taking out or it's so diluted that it's you can't actually refine it or whatever the case may be and oil is the master resource it is what made civilization it's what allowed us to be what we are so that's that's kind of energy in a nutshell it's we just take it for granted and we don't see what's happening and if we are already at the point where we're down to 15 to 1 energy return on invested, we're actually need to figure out how we're going to get by with less energy.

And it's probably the reason why most of the issues are happening out there, whether it's, you know, any of the challenges, the monetary system breaking down, you know, any of that sort of stuff. A dumb question, because you can poke holes in my brain now. Where does nuclear fit in all this? Well, nuclear is a source of energy. It requires technology to use it. It's not solar energy.

It's just... But when you talk about Eeroi... Oh, as far as Eroy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's in around the six or seven to one, if I remember correctly from what they were saying. So there's a ton... Like when you think of building a nuclear power plant,

there's a ton of effort to go into resources and effort. versus to mine the product to build it, to build the systems to actually... But once it's built, then it lasts for 50, 75 years. And the uranium is relatively inexpensive for the amount of energy you get out of it. So yes. So I guess my brain goes multiple ways. When you look at Eroy and you're looking at like, okay, we're going from where we had like this surplus energy of like 100 to 1, now we're down to 15 to 1. Are you going like, the end is near and we're about to fall off a cliff?

We're already off the cliff. Or are like, humans are really smart, we're going to figure this out. We just need to stare at this problem and actually talk to what it is because nobody's talking about it. Yeah, I think we're really smart and we can get through this predicament. We won't be able to solve the problem. We will just need, basically a problem in a predicament are different. A problem is something that has a solution. A predicament is something that has an outcome.

And we're in a predicament here where we can't actually change the fact that the energy is dwindling. We just need to figure out how we're going to adjust the landing sort of thing. So it's kind of like diving off a high diving board. If you have a bully on the steps behind you, not letting you come off, you have to jump, basically. And what you do is you decide on how you're going to control your landing. You can go in there flailing and legs wide open and suffer the pain, or you can point your toes and enter cleanly sort of thing. So that's where we're at.

We have the smarts to point our toes and enter cleanly into that water. And it basically is, you know, the reason why we started Old Bly Tree Farm, our family decided that we wanted to be a bit more resilient and whatnot. And the reason why we actually, I ended up actually going and helping out with the groundswell community greenhouse, and we'll probably talk about that a bit later, is that those are all ways to not only be resilient, but actually bring the community together. And you're not going to get through any of this on your own. You have to get through it as a community.

you know, farmers, when their barns used to burn down, would do barn raisings, right? It was a community effort. So it was a tragedy for the one farm owner, but it's... I just think of the hockey rinks in the area. They were all built by, you know, you go to any of the hockey rinks in the area. And if they're still standing, because a lot of them, they've, a lot of them have been changed out for newer facilities and things like that. But, I mean, just speaking to Helmand in particular, the old photos and everything else,

It was a community project to put together a rink. Actually, I want to say, and don't quote me on this, folks, but I want to say in the 1960s, the government had a program where you could get the building materials and everything else, and then they assembled it, right? Because that's why a ton of the rinks all look the same, right? Yeah. It was a program.

The standard design or whatever. Yeah. And anyways, but the community members would do it, you know. Now we've got so many bloody regulations and laws and everything else. You probably never see that ever again. until the days come where it comes back again. Yeah. Honestly.

Yeah. Well, and it's the community efforts like that that help produce these facilities. And once you have that community effort, you've got the community buy-in as well too, right? Everybody has the pride of that facility. Well, the community thing I find really interesting because a lot of people, it doesn't matter

if you're talking financial stuff, you're talking oil, you're talking, And you just look at the world right now. You talk a more, everybody's pointing at like over the next decade, things are going to get a little rough and you need a community. Everybody points back to, I haven't heard one person go, and you can do it alone. You should be a lone wolf.

Nobody says that. They're all like, you need to find your community. You need to start working together. You need to. So I don't know if I'm hopping on you, but like when you talk about building this community garden, right? Greenhouse. Greenhouse.

Can we talk a little bit about that and what it did for a community? Because I find that really hopeful and positive. Absolutely. And it is. I guess it was 07, some around there. A group of teachers, there was Allison Bell, who was a chef training teacher at the high school. And Joanne Bragg were getting together, trying to figure out how they can teach kids how to grow food. And the trouble with growing food is it's a summer thing.

And kids are not around it summer. So they figured they needed to build a greenhouse, and that's where that came about. So they talked to, there was a local farmer, Dave Zender that they were talking to, and Bill Swan was kind of a local solar guy that they brought in to the group. And they had this great Victorian greenhouse plan, you know, the glass and the ornate metalwork and that sort of stuff. and they were thinking that would be the way to do it.

And then they kind of realized that, well, those things really don't hold the heat that well. And, you know, in minus 35 in January, the kids aren't actually going to be out there doing anything, and the plants won't survive. So they knew at the time, Bill Swan, it was a friend of mine, I play hockey with them and whatnot. So he knew that I had built a super energy-efficient home, basically a straw bale structure that had, you know, our 50 walls and our 70 ceilings and passive solar design and that sort of stuff. So we thought maybe that could be used in a greenhouse facility. So at the time, I really never had any interest in growing food or, you know, my wife was the gardener in the family and my daughter

ended up turning up to be more of a farmer than I am. But the, it was something that I knew was knowing that the energy issue that I just discovered was happening, this was a perfect fit for me, because it brought community together and it figured out how we could grow food in our climate. We're not as cold as Lloydminster, but we still get minus 35s in the winter and not a lot of sun and that sort of stuff. So yeah, I joined the group. There was a five of us that got together. we discovered northern greenhouses, which basically is a way of building greenhouses so that only the southern face is actually your greenhouse structure, but all the other faces of the wall of the structure and even parts of the roof are insulated

or even dug into a hill sort of thing so that you really take advantage of the sun in the angle that it is for the winter, and that's it. And they grow, like there's northern greenhouses that grow fruit trees and stuff in Saskatchewan. I think there's a guy in Saskatchewan that has built them that way. Or northern Colorado at 8,000 feet. The guy has, what do you call it, banana trees and that sort of stuff. Avocados growing in his greenhouse. So there are ways that you can actually grow things in our climate in extreme conditions. So that's what we ended up doing. We ended up building this greenhouse. The community got involved. I mean, everything was donated. It was

probably $300,000 to build this facility. It was built on school property. They were on board as well, too. So they actually owned the facility and allowed the students to come through the facility. But we'd have big burly concrete guys out there donating their time and whatnot, building the structure for us, sort of thing. So that was amazing. And it's still run as a nonprofit community facility. They bring teachers through it, bring their kids through it, like everything from elementary school to high school kids up and down the valley. Invermere is probably about 3,000 people right now, so it's not that big a community, but it is kind of the center for the valley. Most of the schools are in Invermere. Towns on either end of the valley would bring kids. And what year did you build it?

Started in 07, I think it was finished in 2008. So almost 15 years it's been going then. Absolutely. Yeah. So permaculture is another thing that we started promoting on the facility. And permaculture is a design method where you actually use systems to create growing mediums that take advantage of whatever you have, the land and the soil and the proximity to the buildings and so on. So we ended up building this outdoor garden space that's full of fruit trees and

plants and beds that people can rent for their own gardening and that sort of stuff. So it's a facility that gets a lot of use. A lot of use. Over 15 years dealing with kids, like I just think of like, you know, it's been like the idea I've heard talked about even here, right? Like it's been talked about, you know, like instead of, you know, you know, Give a man of fish. You feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you know, for life.

And what you're doing is you're giving a very, well, great tool for kids and adults alike. You know, because I sit here, grow up on the farm, and I know jack squat about gardening, right? Like, it's almost, isn't that sad? Like, and I hear what you're talking about. I'm like, over 15 years, what has been the interaction with, you know, the school, the kids, the community in a big old? Well, yeah, I mean, talk about growing up on a farm and not growing any food. Kids that come through this facility don't even know anything different than whatever they've been eaten from the grocery stores or I think. Sure.

So they learn about hands in the dirt planting stuff. There's a worm farm in there, so they geek out over the worms. and the advantage that they have is that they're actually taking that whatever they're planting lettuce or carrot or whatever, taking it from seed right through to harvest and then actually cooking it in the community, in the school program for chef training and stuff. So all parts of those processes are things that they learn. And it's not only kids. We've got senior citizens and adults going through the facility.

all the time. We have workshops that are done through the school or through that program. We've brought guest speakers in. I don't know if you've ever heard of Michael Apleman or whatever, but he's a farmer on his farms called Foxglove Farm on Salt Spring Island. He's written a number of books about organic farming, but his biggest claim to fame, I guess in my eyes, I guess, is he and a few others started farming in Vancouver, downtown east side. And they figured out a way to organically farm on unused land, parking lots, toxic waste sites or whatever, and teach the locals that are struggling there, whether they're struggling with door conditions or just homeless or whatever,

bringing them back to life basically by taking care of plants. And you talk about teaching them how to fish as opposed to giving them a fish. This is teaching them how to fish. And it's an organization. If people want to look it up, it's called Seoul, S-O-L-E food farms. And they basically farm in four-by-four containers. They're basically plastic pallets that they can pick up and move anytime. They stack them in rows and they put portable irrigation, drip irrigation over top of them.

And if two years down the road, the owner of that land decides he's going to build a skyscraper or something like that, they bring in the flat bed trucks and pick it all up. Pick it all up and move it to the next site while it's still growing. So, you know, trying to get people to grow, whether it's kids or whether it's us adults, you can do that on the balcony of an apartment building if you want. You can grow food. You can grow in your kitchen using sprouting systems and whatnot, microgreens and things like that.

So I think we just need to get people to grow. And we were kind of, we were selfish when we started groundswell because we really wanted to indoctrinate the kids. That's where I see. It's a funny word. It is, but it's what we're doing. I mean, you can indoctrinate for good or you can indoctrinate for bad, right? I know.

I just think of as a parent, you're like, well, I don't want to indoctrinate my kid, right? But then you're like, put it whatever you choose, in essence, you're indoctrinate. There's probably nicer words for it. But yeah, basically giving them something they wouldn't normally seek out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and it just continues to grow. I mean, when we have kids touring the farm, We had the elementary school kids coming to the farm,

and in the spring they come and plant things like pumpkins and carrots and stuff, and the fall they come and harvest them. And they're out there digging up the carrots, and they're full of dirt, and they're, you know, some are petrified of the dirt and others just don't care. And we just tell them, wipe the dirt off and eat the carrot. You don't have to go, take it to the sink and wash it. It's just amazing seeing their eyes light up when they actually take.

something that actually has flavor and it's good for you and that's for stuff. So that's grounds well in a nutshell is it's a it's a teaching facility that is open to anybody and the only way we could do it in Invermere is by building a greenhouse so that when it's minus 30 out there the kids are in there and their t-shirts whatever picking weeds or planting seeds or whatever they're doing. So it's it's super cool because it typically me it's like a giant project and it was can it be done yes it can I mean you're living proof but you need the right people and you need the you know and like I mean the community's got to support and you know and all these things come together right

like I mean don't get me wrong it's it's it's not one person who pulls this off no because if you if you have one person and then the school doesn't use it or take care of it or blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I mean it goes away pretty quick you know and one of the biggest challenges we had um It's easy to get people to donate things or whatever to give you money to build something. It's really hard to get people to donate money or give you the time to manage or run the facility. So over time, paying someone to write the programs and do whatever is needed to run the facility was always been the challenge. So if someone's thinking of starting these things, it's easy to get these things started.

just try to figure out ways to continue to run them. Yeah, to maintain them. Yeah. And we've had a number of different organizations. There's, I think, a school up near Erdry that came by and learned what we were doing and started the same thing. Some people down from the Spokane area came up and a number of others that have inquired about starting similar facilities in their area. So it's been good. we constantly run people through there and show them what we've done and tell them what we do different

and, you know, the mistakes we made and what we would change and that sort of stuff. Well, I think anytime you're talking about like building community, like, you know, like that's what the, that's what the West was. And probably once upon a time, that's what the East was too, you know. We're just closer to it specifically in the prairies. It just happened a lot longer time ago. That's right. In the prairies, when I, you know, I literally have a book.

Yeah, sitting at the house and it's all the settler stories. It's just read it. You can see what they went through and you're like, oh my goodness, right? Like happy people. They were happy to be here, even though they were sitting in, you know, that first winter for some, they didn't get their shelter built so they were sitting in a tent with three or four kids. Yeah. But we were happy and you're like, you know, like, you can't imagine it.

Can't imagine it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we just, we complain about, you know, sitting in a stoplight too long. or whatever it is, right? So it's different times.

I mean, it's different times. I mean, certainly, I'm sure their parents before the settlers and the end and and it just goes on and on. Every generation, you're trying to push them up a little further. And now what we're talking about is trying to, you know, like we can, I think a lot of people can see some of the hardships coming and like, you know, some useful skills that are actually. day-to-day useful that can help, you know, pull you, you know, the food supply and different

things like that. Like, you don't have to explain the useless to me. It's like, I still don't know why I don't have the skill, though, you know, it's like, why haven't I invested in? You know, it's funny. You know, but. Yeah. Well, and the beauty about everything that, you know, we've done or whatever, it's not rocket surgery. I mean, it's, um, it's something that's totally within anybody's capability of doing. It's just a matter you need the drive and the and the will to do it. You know, it's not like growing things is really not that difficult. It's all about understanding how things grow and, you know, typically when I get into something, I really dig into the base principles behind stuff. And one of the things at groundswell that we brought in

speakers like Elaine Ingham, she's basically, Soil Food Web is her site. And she's all about the biology and the life in the soil does all the work for you, not fertilizers, not chemicals, not pesticides and things like that. And once you really understand how plants grow, then it's simple. We, on our farm, we don't use any fertilizers, any herbicides, any pesticides. It's, we just take care of the soil. And that's it. I feel like this is going to be a really dumb question because I feel like I already know the answer.

But like when you, uh, 36. Is that the answer? No. When you, when you, when you, uh, when you, uh, when you, uh, eat your produce, right? Yeah. You get, you pull your carrot out. And certainly I've had cares for mom's garden. on the farm, but when you talk about different things with using herbicides, pesticides, and everything, do you notice like a giant difference?

Yeah. And there's, I've got an instrument that actually measures the nutrient density of plants. There's an organization in Maine called Bionutrient Food Association. I think it is organization. they actually in the same way that you can actually look out into space and tell that a planet is made up of nickel, meledum or whatever the minerals are.

Basically every mineral, every element has a signal to it, has an electronic wave associated with it. And cameras can pick that up and determine whether Mars is mostly cobalt or whatever. might be. So they've developed a camera that can look at plants and that carrot and said that it's 10% nitrogen, 5% boron or whatever the case may be. And then through an analysis, they know that a carrot needs to be this percentage of this mineral, this percentage of that mineral to be healthy sort of thing. So they've developed systems to determine whether or not food is healthy or not. And their

goal is so that people can have these things on their smartphone so they can go into a grocery store and say that carrot with crap this carrot beat it's average and that carrot oh that one's really healthy so that's the goal and it's it's actually that simple it's really what the makeup of it is but which actually isn't that like crazy of an idea like I mean sorry not the the phone thing is like I'm like can you like that that's a wild idea to me yeah But actually like the makeup of the carrot, I mean, that's, you know, that makes, what's in there? Yeah, it makes complete sense to me.

Determines whether it's good or not. Correct. Yes. So when you go back to base principles and try to think out, well, how do plants grow? So plants actually grow with their roots in the ground, trying to get nutrients to feed their structure, right? So what I discovered is that plants actually can't go down and get, say, cobalt from the ground. plants need cobalt to make vitamin B12, but it's not something that's in fertilizers. It's not something that's in other systems of feeding plants.

So how does it get cobalt? And if it doesn't get cobalt, it's not as healthy for you as it would be otherwise. So basically what happens is the biology in the soil, the worms, the critters, the nematodes, the bacteria and the fungus all dissolve minerals without. acids within them and make them available for the plants to absorb that. Beautiful little ecosystem. Yeah, it's a ecosystem. It's a system that's symbiotic, basically, right?

The relationship there is there. So that's how, you know, in the forest, nobody fertilizes stuff in the forest or in wild grasslands or whatever, but those plants are healthier than any. So that's how that works. And, you know, you don't need to know exactly how those things work, but basically you need to make sure that the biology in the soil is there so that that symbiotic relationship can happen. But then what happens is plants, how do those things survive, right? So plants, in turn, through photosynthesis, easy to say, make sugars. And normally they use some of that sugar in their body as part of the energy for the plant to grow.

But a healthy plant will exude two-thirds of that sugar out its roots into the soil. and that feeds the biology because those critters down there are living, breathing organisms that need energy and where they get their energy it's from plants. From plants.

So when you have that relationship that things are healthy, your plants are healthy and a healthy plant just like you and I, if you're healthy, can walk into a room that's full of people with colds and not get sick.

It's a beautiful metaphor I was thinking for just people in general. What you put in your body is going to determine a lot, you know, a lot. Yeah. So the, and speaking of your body, basically that soil is the plant's gut. I mean, in our gut, we have all this biology that we think we feed ourselves. We don't. We just put food in a tube that that biology then dissolves, just like in the ground,

and makes that available to be transferred through the gut barrier. into our blood, which then feeds us. So if we don't have a healthy gut... You may have said this right off the hop, but I can't remember, and so I'm racking my brain. What did you go to school for? Or did you... Architecture.

You went to... You're an architect? Yep. That's what you graduated from, and you mentioned back in the 80s, there was no work, so you come all the way to Calgary. Yep. And what did you start doing?

Architecture and Calgary? Yeah, I mean... Sorry, I'm now... Now I'm really pulling us all the way around. I'm just... No, that's fine. I find it fascinating. then I'm like, what is?

The two aren't related. Yeah, right? I'm trying to like add it all together. Well, that's why I said, you know, a little while ago I said, basically, I never really had any interest in growing food. I never really, you know, had the area. So did you, as an architect, you graduated with your architecture degree? Yeah, a diploma. Diploma.

And did you come over to the West and use your architecture? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, 81. Calgary was still booming. There was still quite a bit going on. I ended up working for an architectural firm that hired me because I played baseball. Sports do a lot. Don't get yourself.

It was kind of an inside joke, but yeah, that was one of the things they asked during the interview and whatnot. Was do you play baseball? They had a slow pitch team and whatnot. Yeah, it was fun. But anyways, yeah. It's funny, you know, to hop in here real quick, in Saskatchewan, if you play senior hockey, right? Over 100 senior hockey teams in Saskatchewan, right? It is a past time.

If you bring up senior hockey, you'll know it's this little network that runs across the entire province. It's actually quite wild. So when they ask about the ball thing, you know, it seems like such a silly thing. But if you understand sports, you're like, not quite. You know, there's a lot hidden in there. Anyways, carry on. So yeah, yeah, I mean, 81 through 94, which is the time we were in Calgary. I worked for three different architectural firms. So we worked on things like Rocky View Hospital and building fairly large structures, Nova building downtown. So this, so this, so this, like hobby, passion, whatever we're going to call it here. Obsession. Obsession. Your, your, your full-time career is architecture. Yeah. And on the side of it, you start, you, you know,

like, I, you know, Sean's really bouncing around today. folks but you essentially have this career and on the side you get this obsession with peak energy yep and you start to go oh crap we better prepare and protect ourselves insulate ourselves a bit and that leads you into this like soil plant world where you're like this is brilliant well i mean you're a father right yes our role is to protect our family right um so I mean, one of our roles, basically. Changing diapers and stuff is another one. But the...

We're out of diapers, thank you. Yeah, thank God. But yeah, the... I guess that, you know, protection that whatever kind of kicked in, right? The... Got to figure out ways how to... how to adjust the landing from this predicament, basically. So, you know, what do you do?

I mean, if energy is, if oil is the master resource that it is, and it is, and we're going to see less energy from that over the years, over time, unfortunately, our monetary system is built on exponential growth. We have a debt-based monetary system, and I think you know that, right? So that means debts need to be paid back in the future with interest. So that means growth is built in to the system. Without growth, the monetary system fails. So if you have a system that requires growth, and it doesn't happen,

it's got to, something's got to give. Things have to fail and stuff has to revert back to a smaller system. And in order for you to get through that, you've got to not worry about the frivolous things. You've got to figure out the basics. So you've got to make sure you have a home that's, you can live in that will get you through this process. You have to figure out ways to grow food. And that was sort of my mindset at the time

is trying to, the basic things we need are food and shelter. Right. So joining an organization like groundswell or starting a farm or teaching people, you know, how things are grown or ways to do that. What's the paper you got in front of you? I feel like it says if I read it upside down is what's coming next and how can I help? Or am I close?

Do you remember that question from the last email? I did. I think a while ago you had said, change the last question of the interview, right, from, you know, what really drives you? It's a fantastic question. But I think people in the hour and a bit or whatever they talk about. talk to you tell you they do and it's funny I I've I've talked to that's funny that yes this is it's funny you know you talk about inside jokes like the audience has no idea about these emails they've never read them nothing it's the words are he's heath is

the owner of crude master right yeah and the question even after people have talked for so long we went through a period of time where I felt like I didn't stand for jack squat even though that's not true. I know I'm harder on myself and everything else, but I felt like I wasn't standing for anything. I don't think anyone else is standing for anything. And I'm like, what are we doing here? We're just getting like pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. It's like, what do you stand behind? And so it was such a perfect question for the time that it's gone. And now it's funny. Well, let's, let's, now you've got a suggestion. Now I'm curious. So I think in that email I suggested that maybe another question would be to, would be basically what's next and

how can I help? And I think those are two important things over and above, you know, what you really, what do you stand behind sort of thing. So for the final question, the Crude Master final question, Dale, what's next? What's next? And how can I help? Great question. How does that kind of feels good? Well, what's next? I mean, we've started, our family started a farm. Daughter is heavily involved. My wife and I do it in our spare time. Basically, we both have full-time jobs.

So what's next for us is I think we need to figure out how to save seed. Save seed. Yeah. And if you ever want to watch a great movie about it, watch Percy. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's a Saskatchewan farmer that's battled Monsanto over the seed he's saved. Percy. P-E-R-C-Y. That's the movie?

Great movie. Documentary, I assume? No, it's just, it's an actual full-length movie. It's not documentary, yeah. What is it on? Like, is it? It's been out for a while, so you can probably get it on Netflix or things like that, but just Google it.

But anyways, saving our own seed is not only a way to make sure that you have seed in the future, because that could be in question, but it's also a way of having... Holy crap. apologies. Percy has Christopher walking at it. Oh yeah. It's a really good movie. Yeah.

I don't know what. I'm like, I have Percy. Okay. It's not this hippie-dippy thing about seeds. It's about a Saskatchewan farmer? Yeah. Yeah, southern Saskatchewan.

I think, I think close to the American border. Anyways, he used to save his seed. A 2020 Canadian-American American Indian biographical drama film directed by Clark Johnson for his own. a man with blah, blah, blah,

has Christopher Walken, Christina Ricci, a few others. The film falls, 70-year-old small-town Saskatchewan farmer Percy Schmeiser. Yeah, something like that. Who takes on giant corporation after the GMOs interfere in his crops. I've never even heard of this movie. I've never seen the film title of this movie. Now you got me. I enjoy a good movie.

Based on the events of Schmeiser versus Monsanto. Okay. Well, there you go, folks. It blows me away that that's a Saskatch. Yeah, it's a great movie. It's not just a documentary or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So, yeah, okay.

I'm glad I, anyways, carry on. Yeah, and that, so, yeah, thanks for the question. But basically, if we save seed, you can actually keep improving the seed quality over the years that are to the point where they're actually suited to your soils and to your climate, right? Right now we're getting seed from who knows where. We could be getting it from Georgia.

We could be getting it from, you know, California or Vancouver, right? Whoever knows where the seed's coming from. So that creates a bit of resilience and it creates basically a better product for your thing. So that's next for us. By saving seed. Yes.

I feel like the farmers out there are going to laugh at me for asking, but I'm going to be saving seeds. So after you harvest, keeping back X amount so that you can plant it again in your area. And over time, your seed becomes accustomed to your land. Yep. And you're also, typically what you're doing is you're saving the larger, the larger the germ in the seed, the center part of the seed is, the more vigor it has for growing the next year. And unfortunately, when you buy seed through seed companies, the best seed basically goes to testing facilities so they can test the seed. The next best seed goes to universities and whatnot so they can maybe do some work on it.

The next best seed goes to larger producers that are connected to the seed companies. And the lowest quality seed that you get typically the smaller stuff is the stuff they put in packages and sell to you and I or whatever. So we're not getting the best seed to begin with. And then it could be from a climate that's not used to being grown in whatever soils we have or the temperature. The farmers I know are pretty dang smart. I feel like they brought, you know, like as you're going, they're probably, oh yeah, I save seed all the time. Is that not, or? No, it's like your garden, right?

People used to grow gardens, but it's way easier to get the seed from somewhere else. Yeah. Right? Or get the food from somewhere else. So same thing with seeds. It's way easier to get it from someone. And if you are growing using chemical systems, there's seeds that actually have been adapted to grow better in those chemical systems or whatever. Like Percy, Roundup Ready seed basically is what he was fighting.

and Monsanto has patented seeds that's ready to be covered in roundup and not be affected by it basically. So, yeah, that's a challenge. You're about to send me on a dirty rabbit hole. I enjoy it, but it's like, folks. You know, I had a listener. Actually, Seth Bloom, him and his daughter were on just a few weeks ago. And he was talking about, this is similar and different all at the same time.

I was talking about Brett Weinstein, talking about the mice that pharmaceutical companies do the tests off. Humanized mice. And that they've built up resilience to chemicals, essentially. So that I want you to think about this because what you just said with the seeds is really like, I'm like, oh my God, it's almost identical to what he was talking about with the mice. is that these mice survived the trials, but they've built up resiliency because they're of that bloodline, if you would. Yep.

And then it passes because they can handle what's going on, and then it hits us, and we don't have the same resilience. And so that's where you can have, like, really bad things happen to human beings, because you're like, that I, like, when I first heard it, I'm like, actually makes really,

because, I mean, like, it makes it makes like ridiculously simple sense but you never never get it framed that way and what you're talking about anyways with seeds it's like oh oh yeah well it's having an oh moment well and that um you know that's just the way the system works that the big companies are promoting what they're promoting whether it's their chemicals or fertilizers

or whatever and they've adapted seeds or systems to work with them so that it can kill weeds but not the wheat or canola or whatever their seeds are, right? So, yeah, that if you're trying to grow in a biological system, any of those things, those herbicides, pesticides, not only kill weeds, but they're killing the biology in the soil. You may be already, maybe you already know, maybe this is already happening or whatever. But me and another guest had been talking off air about, I don't know if you call it a forum or what you call it, but basically bringing together groups of people to explore different

ideas that would be like really sound. We were talking about Alberta. You know, like bring together really smart people who have different ideas on like how to build greenhouses in certain locations so that you can get food production that's all natural blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, in places that you go back to what you said really early on about soul food farms in the east side of Vancouver. You think of like all the highways and you think of all the, like all, there's just unused land that could probably be developed into something.

Now, do I don't have the answer for that, folks? No. What we were talking about was like, I wonder if you could put together a bit of a forum. I'm going to, I told them I didn't like the word, now I'm using the damn word. but you know could you put together a little bit of an Alberta forum or what have you and bring together invite different people with different ideas to talk and explore the ideas and see what comes out of that I don't know maybe that already happens like that could possibly be happening already but I don't know you know I live under a rock some days yeah I'm sure it is happening in lots of places and it

it can happen at a small scale or a large scale it's it's I think it's a way of people people exploring things that they would not normally think about, right? Like you used to grow gardens or you used to do whatever, we would just go out and pick a carrot or whatever out of the garden or cut some lettuce and take it to the table and eat it that night, right? So we've got to figure out ways to get back to that. And we've gone so far beyond that that it's not just a simple step back. And things like forums would solve some of those issues so that we can jump into it not give up. Well, and maybe give some solutions that don't feel like it's so overwhelming.

I know that, like, a garden should be overwhelming, but if you don't know anything about it, you're like, oh, my God, I know, I'm going to grow what now? You know, it's interesting. I always think with the garden thing, it's like, I'd read a story about Saskatoon back in the dirty 30s, and what they did was is they gave all the citizens, apologies, gave all the citizens garden plots. Oh, yeah. And you're like, that's super cool.

But you did that today, nobody know what the heck they were doing, right? Like, I mean, people learn fast. It's not like you can't. Like I said, it's not rocket surgery. No, you start investing your time into something after a couple weeks. You're going to know a heck of a lot more. I mean, I was just saying this last night, too,

that the latest thing I've seen lots going over and over. You know, Malcolm Gladwell had the 10,000 hour theory. But the latest one is if you spend 18 minutes a day on any given hobby or subject, after a year, which is a 108-point-something hours, you'll be in the top 95% of the world in that given field or that given hobby, right? So it's like, it does make sense. It's like, yeah, I mean, who gives 18 minutes, like, you know,

a day to one specific thing? It's actually, you know, honestly, when I look at the podcast, that's pretty much what I did. It was more than 18 minutes a day, probably, for like. But 18's a minimum, right? That's a minimum. And for three years, that's all I did. I lived to eat and breathe this thing and continue to do so. I hope it, you know, I find it fascinating. You know, I'm sitting here this morning. You had the four guys from Manitoba rolling. They're going to Joshua Allen's man camp, you know, and they drove all night. And I'm like, you know, it's funny. I got Dale coming through and he just drove from Invermere to be for the other. I'm like, this is like the world is super cool right now where I'm sitting anyways, at least. Yeah, anyways, I'm, I'm rambling. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, getting back to what's next, I guess.

Yeah, so what's next? You know, I got us all off the track. I think that's the next step. I mean, we've figured out ways to grow in our climate. Is seed saving? Is seed saving? That's what you think is next. Yeah, for us anyways.

For you, for you. Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, but there's a lot to know about seed saving. It's not just a matter of letting it go to seed. There's cross-pollination issues. There's all kinds of things. Some seeds like carrots only happen every second. second year, so you have to take the carrot out of the ground and replant it in the following

spring, and then it'll go to flower. So there's lots of challenges, but it's, again, it's not superhuman strengths. Well, and I, I don't know, I assume Dale, you know this, but like, there is an ever-growing community of people such as yourself that just keep, that have been working on the different hobbies for a long time, that all of a sudden have this wealth information. You're like, where the heck did you come from, right? Like, I was just, you know, when it was the ladies from East Anchor Media, they had their thriving over surviving workshop, I think is what they called it. Right. Just outside of Red Deer, Sylvan Lake.

And they had like all these different people that were talking about, like, well, one was about sourdough bread. And I was like, well, what now? It's like, why? And who? And, but they had like skills like that across everything you're talking about, right? you would have fit in like a dirty shirt. Making soap or whatever the skills are, right? And we've just, well, we've farmed them out to the world because, you know, that's, you know,

that's kind of where we're at, right? Like, you go to the store and you can have, you don't need to, you know, be able to do all these things, right? Like, you just don't. You just go to the store, you pick up what you need and you walk away. Now, one of the things you're shining a bit of a light on, I think, is, and a lot of people have is, you know, lots of these products. If you look at the bottle or whatever it is, it's like, well, look at, the ingredients all in there to make what you have. And you go, if you can't pronounce.

And over time, you go, well, is that doing good things for me or bad? Chances are not great. Yeah. Yeah, as close to being back to basic food or, you know, if you're talking about food or whatever sort of thing, as close as you can get to being back to basic food that's grown in a natural way, that's what our body's been used to over whatever millennial, right? So that's what we need to be healthy. And if the minerals aren't in the food, the thing you're eating,

then your body isn't getting it. There's an amazing story. I don't know if you have time for this. We do. Two years ago, I picked up a book called Eating on the Wild Side. Joe Robertson, Robinson, I think, is the lady that wrote it. But basically she went and looked at the nutrient density of food was her goal. So she looked at all the crops that we grow and all the crops we used to grow.

and determined, you know, the nutrient density of them and the health benefits of them. And the just of the book is that basically most of the old heirloom products, most of the stuff that's darker in color have the higher nutrient density in them. So like your kale's versus your kind of basic lettuce or whatever, or your purple carrots versus orange carrots. And carrots are like the one that stood out to me the most. orange carrots were first brought to the world by some Dutch

king in the medieval times basically he wanted orange carrots so he decreed that orange carrots were the way to go and then basically that propagated through Europe so that's how we have orange carrots and carrots used to be just purple I think they come from Afghanistan or somewhere around there naturally right so they were purple

they were reds they were yellows and there were oranges well too, but they're not many, but they basically cross-bred, I think, a yellow with a purple or orange or red or something like that. And that's how they got orange carrots, and that's how we have them today. But purple carrots have 40 times the antioxidants and micronutrients in them that orange carrots have in them. And they're just as sweet, but why don't we eat them? You know, because it's not what we're used to. And in that book, she talked about a study that was done, I think it was done in Detroit where they took rats, our humanized rats that we just talked about, fed them a shitty diet.

So the standard American diet eating crappy food, crappy drinks, no energy, like no exercise, whatever. Within 18 weeks, the rats all had cancer. They had joint issues. They had heart issues. They were diabetic, you know, all that sort of stuff. Then they took the group, split them into two, keep feeding, feeding both of those groups. the shitty diet, but the one group they fed purple carrot juice too. And within, I think it was five to eight weeks or something like that,

all those symptoms disappeared in that purple carrot juice group. Wow. So they weren't getting the nutrients, the micronutrients. I have a run on purple carrot juice here. Well, you can't find it, right? Because nobody produces it. So we right now. So where do you get purple?

You can't tell me this story. And then where do you get purple carrots from? Oh, and you can buy the seeds. but there's no mass production of them, right? There's no purple carrot farm. Why is it that everything that's great for you? They don't want. Well, I mean, that's a very dark rabbit hole to go into.

No, it's actually, it's our fault, basically. It's not, we can't blame anybody else but ourselves. So we go to the grocery store, expect convenience, right? So in that convenience, we want to see, say, a tomato that's nice and round and ripe, and it looks the same as the next tomato beside it. that. So how does that, how do we get that at the grocery store? So in order for it to get there, it has to be harvested before it's ripe so that it transports well. It has to be a variety that's consistent. Like we grow black crim tomatoes in there. They're ugly as shit basically.

They have these shapes all over the place and they look like, you know, there's crevices in there that bugs can hide in and all kinds of stuff, right? But they're super high in nutrients and antioxidants and things like that. So we as a customer have chosen those tomatoes and how do they get there. So they have to be a variety of type. The farmer has to be able to harvest them easy. So there's all these things that we put priority on

over nutrients. And it's basically how it ends up presenting itself at the grocery store and we buy that sort of thing. If there was a black crimmed tomato and a bright red tomato sitting, sitting side by side. I bet you you'd sell 10 of those white ones before the black run

just because of the look of them sort of thing. Do you think that's changing? Absolutely. Like I agree with you 100%. Five years ago, I would have, you know, not a tomato guy, but in saying that, like even the two types of carrots. Yep.

If there was orange or purple, all I think of a purple carrot is like a beet or something, right? I'm like, my, I ain't eating. Like, no way, right? Orange, okay, orange. But I feel like over the last three years, I'm taking the ugly looking tomato every day of the week at this point, right? Like I'm like, nope, sign me up for that, right? Like to me, I feel like there's a big...

It's slowly changing. It's slowly changing. Yeah, you're probably right. It's slowly. I shouldn't say it's a big push. It's slowly changed. Yeah. And we...

So when we take our stuff to the market, we have the purple carrots beside the orange carrots. And the orange carrots still sell out, even though I spend... Really? Time talking to people exactly about this. And, you know, we have samples that they can try. And they'll take it, but we still, you know, people will buy more orange. And creatures have it. Yeah.

You know? And the, I mean, it will change. But if the farmer and the grocer and the transport companies can't get that fruit that was harvested two weeks earlier, somewhere down in Mexico, whatever, two years. table in the middle of winter, looking half decent, you're not going to buy it. Okay. You know, the crude master final question for this episode was what's next, but we didn't get to the second part. And how can I help? Well, you or anybody else that's listening to it can help by starting to, you know, learn about, you know, the food that we eat

and the nutrients and trying to grow some of these things. Even if, like I said, if you're on a 27th floor of an apartment, you can still grow food on your balcony. You can still grow food on your in a container or microgreens on your counter in the kitchen. Start doing that. You're saying I got a, I got a, I have to grow a plant. That's what you're suggesting. Yep. Yeah. Or, or go to farmer's markets.

You know, it's funny as I'm like, I don't know why the responsibility of a plant. I'm like, I don't want to destroy it. What's a plant you would suggest growing? Can I grow a purple carrot? Can I just go? Because now, now you got my carrots. No, you need deep soils to grow up. But yeah, you can grow purple carrot in any environment.

What do you mean deep soils? Well, carrot needs about 12 inches worth of soil minimum, so you're not growing in a little small. So I need a 12 inch pale. Yeah, 12 inch pale. You got me interested about this purple carrot now. You know? Ideally, in soil, it's in the ground, but if you want to grow it in a pail, go for it. Yeah.

Yeah, we grow, we've found seven, seven different types of purple carrots now, and we're planting them out on our farm and going to see which one's taste. the best or have the best qualities and stuff like that. They all have really high nutrient densities. Do you have a, at your farm, do you have a roadside stand or whatever? A farm stand, thank you. So people can just roll into the old, 24 hours a day. If you're buying things at night, you might have to bring a headlamp. But, yeah, 24 hours a day. It's just on the honor system. So people put cash in the box or take change out or whatever they need to do. or e-transfer money. There you go, folks. Invermere, the old blue truck farm.

I don't want to cut it short. You know, is there anything that we haven't got? Now I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to get them purple. All right. I'm going to have to do this. All right. Fair enough. Right.

But I tell you what, I'll be proud as a, like, I'll be proud if I grow a purple carrot. Yeah. Anyways. Well, I think, I mean, you know, my journey in this process is different than my wives and my kids and whatever to get to that point. But basically, I saw a predicament. I figured out how to change the landing so that it's not going to hurt as much.

And my goal was to try to figure out how to grow more food and live in a house that doesn't need energy and things like that. That was easy for me because I was an architect, right? So the hard part is farming. Farming, you learn one year at a time, unfortunately. It's not something that you, you know, you work. on a slap shot or something like that, right? You can fix it the next week sort of thing, right? Farming is not quite like that.

So we're learning tons, but we are, with the farm tours and stuff, we're telling people what mistakes we've made so that they don't have to make the same one, right? So the idea of people getting out and growing things isn't necessary. Like you don't have to go out and grow your own purple carrots, but search out someone.

Oh, I'm growing a purple carrot now, of course. I'll send you some seeds. I'll be looking forward to it. I'll tell you what, I'm going to hold you to that. You heard it here, folks. He's going to be selling me a purple. I'll be taking, I'll get the kids in on it. You know, like I'm thinking.

Well, that's the beauty, right? Getting them in on it and getting them to watch that grow is probably the easiest part. Well, and the fact it's a purple carrot, they're going to be like, purple carrot. Like, I can already see my kids being like, Dad, there's no purple carrots. I'm like, there is a purple carrot. Let me tell you about it. And we're going to grow the sucker. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no, and some are so dark purple, like they're almost black. There's some African carrots that are almost black. So, but yeah, that's the, is the next thing is trying to figure out, you know, getting people the motivation to do something is the first part. So what's your reason, whether you want to build community, whether you're worried about the energy issue, whether you just want healthier food, use that motivation to get to that next step.

I tell you what, folks, with Dale's question, but once again, we're recording this early and I don't know actually when it gets to drop, but regardless, I'm going to stick with your question for a month. Let's try it out for a month. Like, what's it's going to hurt? You know, honestly, it might get Sean into wrangled into a few more things. That's the only thing. How can I help?

Oh, boy, here we go. You know, but at the same time, it's like, hmm, that's interesting. When you talk about, you know, with a couple minutes left, when you talk about, um, our architecture and houses needing less energy. No energy, less energy. We could, all right, we turned all the electricity, we have electric heat in our house. We turned it all off one winter in January to see what the month of January it would be like. And the house didn't drop below 14 degrees. So 14 degrees is rather chilly. Well, that's better than the castles of old. So in Scotland. But no, just as an example.

I mean, so we worked during the day. So we'd come home at night. We'd have a put a small fire in the fireplace in the wood stove. So wood fire, wood stove. Yeah. And we'd have a fire for a couple hours and let it go out. And that was it sort of thing. Our lower level, we've designed the house so that the bedrooms are sleeping areas

are in the lower level, half sunken basement basically. So that we love sleeping in cool temperatures. So if you think about your design of your house, your living space should be where it's the warmest and your sleeping space should be where it's coolest. Yeah, that's, you know, we don't. That just seems so easily simple. It's not even funny.

And yet so many homes are not built that way. No. It's a complete opposite. You got the bedroom way at the top. Yep. And, you know, and then you die, like literally die in the summer unless you got AC, right? Yeah.

And in the winter, your house is trying to heat that space, right? So it's pumping out heat, trying to, you've got walls all around that upper floor. So what, assuming most listeners already have their house built, they're not going to build a brand new house. What are, is there easy little things they can do to change, you know, anyways, change like energy use? Yeah, low-hanging fruit.

I mean, basically, I don't know, around here, for example, there's probably not a lot of wood-burning appliances. So having a wood-burning stove is an easy way to, get some heat into a house and use natural fuel, basically. But maybe that's not an easy thing on the prairies. As I was driving here, I was wondering where all the gravel comes from because there's, you know, in Invermere, there's rocks everywhere, right? How do you get gravel to build homes and houses and roads?

Gravel pits. Are there? Gravel pits. Oh, okay. So it's not just topsoil or prairie dirt or whatever. So, yeah, the... Lots and lots of gravel. But there's not a lot of wood.

It's not a lot of, you know, woodfits. for firewood and stuff around here, so maybe that's not an issue. But I would say everybody is moved away from wood burning fires. Now, I got to think about this because mom and dad have one. I love it. But I would say a couple of things. One is insurance now to have one in your house makes it go up.

And then probably- Availability probably of wood and things. Probably just effort, right? And cleanliness. But then what I say with that, with effort is the energy has been so cheap for so long. Nobody's really, but you're starting to see that, I mean, let alone just the carbon tax alone

is going to triple by 2030 here in Alberta. So things are going to go up regardless. So you will start, once it starts to make, you know, well, if we put in a little more effort, we'd save some money. People are motivated, you know, get motivated. Anyways, yeah. So it might change again.

Because I heard back in the, I think it was the 80s, to be honest, that people switched over to woodburning, stoves and things like that because of, you know, the economy and different things like that. I don't know. You lived Gallaghery. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Yeah, switched over to wood or switched away from wood? Switched over to wood. Oh, okay. Yeah, the, um, they did, but I think it's changed now. Like every house we build now, I'm in the house building industry, basically, um, 90% of the fireplaces and stoves we put in our gas or propane in our... Well, I see, but now it's changed again, right? So, so there was a

once again, you're the house guy, so I'm, I'm, yeah, the story I've been told is that through the 80s, there was a huge switch over to wood. And then since then, it's been a huge, I mean, almost 100% of the homes don't have them. And if you do, and you buy the house, people are removing them because they don't see any use for it. And I'm like, well, I see a use for it. I think it's coming awfully quick. Well, unfortunately, the old wood stoves weren't airtight. So they were typically a fireplace, a hole in the wall. And that became actually a huge energy loss for the house. because 80% and 90% of time it's not used and it's just basically a chimney

that sucks air out of the house. So nowadays, a stove is usually an airtight stove or a sealed stove, even fireplaces are built that way. And they produce way more heat and they don't allow the heat to escape when you're not using them sort of thing. But trying to retrofit an existing house to be more energy efficient

is not easy and it's not cheap. If you're replacing windows, you can put back, better quality windows in at that time and focus on triple pane windows. That technology is hugely improved over the last 10 years. If you are, say, going to re-side a house or something like that down the road, I would put rigid insulation on the outside of the house because if you're going to reside anyways,

that's an easy way to add some insulation to the house and then put siding over top of that. You can blow an extra insulation into your attic. A lot of heat goes up through the attic, you know, that sort of stuff. ceiling you can do air blower door tests on your house to see where the air leaks are so that you plug those leaks up we do that on every house we build basically to try to get it down to even below net zero home energy standards as far as air leakage so there's there's lots of things you can do it's just easier done at the on the onset when you build a house so yeah well I appreciate

you coming in and doing this, you know? Certainly, you know, the weekends just started, you know, it's... Yeah, it should be a fun one. Yeah, I hope so, you know. And appreciate you coming in and actually getting to meet you, you know, face-to-face. Likewise. It's always, I don't know, I always am... When people put as much time and effort into the emails you send, it's never a disappointment, I guess.

You know, it's not like the person that shows up doesn't match the emails. It's like, no, I agree. This is exactly. what it is. Before I let you off, though, you in that bag brought a whole bunch of produce, and you mentioned something right at the start, and I'm like, I don't know what that is. What is it? Which? Oh, the rock dust. The rock dust. What is rock dust? Well, we don't use fertilizers on our farm. We basically, we're going to change the name from old blue truck farm to old blue truck ranch. Because we're not farming or gardening stuff. We're actually raising soil life. We've got

billions of critters in the soil that we're raising. And when you harvest vegetables, what you're doing is you're taking minerals off of the farm, basically, and you need to replenish those minerals. So if we're not doing that through fertilizers, which they don't do a great job of replenishing the minerals anyways, we do, we apply rock dust to the beds. And rock dust is basically volcanic rock that's been ground up into a fine powder, and it's got 80 different odd minerals in there. There's things like chromium, the stuff that's on your bumpers. There's manganese and molybdenum and boron and selenium, which is low in our valley. In that bag of minerals that you then put on the soil for your plants to then absorb and become minerals in there.

So it's the multivitamin for your plants, basically. Rock dust. And so that's all we use. We do soil tests to make sure our soils, minerals are balanced, and then we apply rock dust as a general amendment every time we work a bed or do whatever we have to do to it. So, yeah, it's basically a natural replenishment of minerals that you've taken off the farm. I've taken us on a whole journey today, haven't I? There's probably a whole other podcast just talking about farming techniques. Like when we do a farm tour on our farm, it's a three-hour tour.

typically and it's not Gilligan's Island well then I tell you what the next one we do we'll do at the farm and I'll just bring the podcast here right like that way I can you know like kind of that would be awesome we got a whole big plan here whether it's it won't be this summer by any stretch but in the coming years with the podcast it take a little road trip and go see some people and different things and and that'd be super cool either way I appreciate you you coming in Dale and and doing this and I hope you enjoy the weekend and all that good stuff I will and I'm looking for forward to it. So I appreciate you having me. That was awesome.