Shaun Newman Podcast - #479 - Shannon Halliday

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Director of the documentary "The Essential Church" hops on to discuss his journey into filmmaking, his journey with the Bible, telling compelling stories that you care about and the Hollywood Universe. Let me know what you think Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Patreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

This is Matt Osborne. This is Pat King. My name is Martin Armstrong. This is Alex Kraner. This is Franco Tarzano, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome on the podcast, folks. Well, I'm on my way to Kelowna. Actually, by the time you're listening to this, I will be in Kelowna.

So if you're in the neighborhood, shoot me a text. I'll have my phone on me. I've already got a few different places. I have to make sure I visit and look forward to seeing some people that have been texting me for a very long time, supporting the show, everything else. It should be fun. Plus, I get to sit down with Tamara and a whole cast of characters out in Clona

that I think will be a lot of fun. Once again, if you're out in that area, shoot me a text, would love to hear from you just down the show notes. My numbers there. And we'd love to meet up, bump into each other if we can. Now, before we get to today's show, Blaine and Joey Stephan, Guardian, plumbing, and heating.

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I almost need to make a phone call. I'm actually going to be on this. I believe Joey's flying on the same plane as me today. We're flying to Calgary, so I think they're going to obviously a different place. But I might just have to pick his brain on this. It's like, come on now. What's the strings attached here? I feel like some people got to make some phone calls.

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I would love to have everyone and all of you. Everyone in all of you, that doesn't sound right, but you get the point. Reach out once again, phone numbers down on the show notes, and we'd love to have you a part of the SMP team. Caleb Taves, Renegade Acres, they've been shining a spotlight on some of the community events upcoming. So I'm going to go back to,

Marwain Slim said they're fundraising as a new ice plant, boards, new pipes under the arena floor, and they're having a concert September 8th, 2023 here with Gord Banford and Dwayne Steele. And then I was talking, well, today's episode's all about the Essential Church with Shannon Halliday, Grace Community Church out of California did this documentary, and it's not yet showing in Canada. It doesn't look like it's going to be allowed to. I'm going to say.

But you can buy the DVD here at the end of the month. You'll hear all about that today. And then Rebel News has one of their own, Church Under Fire, Canada's War on Christianity. So that one is also coming out. And I was just texting with Deanna Franklin. And it sounds like it's going to be coming along. If I hear a date on that, I'll give you guys,

well, I'll keep you all posted as well so that you can pay attention from when that comes through. Either way, that's Caleb Taves. Renegade Acres giving up their spot for some community events and news coming through, and that's pretty cool of them. I've got to be honest. I love the idea when we got talking about it. Jim Spanrath and Team Over at Three Trees Tap and Kitchen.

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And if you're going to take the special someone there, I would call and get book a reservation. 780874-7625. Now let's get on that tail of the tape brought to you by Hancock Petroleum. For the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm commercial or oil field locations. For more information, visit them at Hancock.comptrolium.com. He's the director of the new documentary, The Essential Church. I'm talking about Shannon Halliday.

So buckle up. Here we go. This is Shannon Halliday, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Shannon Holiday. So first off, sir, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me on. It's my pleasure.

You know, I just had a conversation last week with Leight and Gray, and somehow, you know, the essential church documentary starts getting talked about. He may have given it a little plug. can't really recall. And I'm like, yeah, I'd really like to get somebody on about that. And he's like, you want somebody? OK. And he's like sitting there in the middle of the, you know, the interview.

And I swear he's no longer listening to me. And he's like typing out an email. I'm like, what is he? That's how quick it happened, folks. So Shannon, thanks for giving me some time. I certainly want to hear all about the documentary. And I'm sure that'll be majority of the conversation. But for the audience, they're not going to have a clue who you are.

You got to tell us a little bit about yourself. and we'll start there. Okay. Well, I grew up in San Diego. I loved skateboarding and punk rock music, and this is the late 80s, early 90s, and I was in all sorts of hardcore bands, and my band broke up. I'm starting way back at the beginning, right?

I'll try to keep it short, but we'll, you know, I'll get the interesting details in there. Anyway, my band broke up. We were doing really well. This is right before Nirvana really broke out, but we had some good stuff, and we were playing all over San Diego. Band broke up. I was just sitting around the house, didn't have anything to do.

Parents said, you've got to go back to school. So I went back to school. And I took an acting class because my mom was an actress back in Broadway and all that stuff. And I fell in love with it. And I just started doing theater all over San Diego, anything I could audition for. And I had the bug, man. That's all I wanted to do. And I loved being on stage.

I loved story. I was starting to get introduced to writing. like David Mimet and things like that, just these really dramatic plays that I loved. I loved the way he wrote, and that really got me more into writing. And I was always into writing and storytelling, to be honest with you. But anyways, I dropped everything and I moved to L.A.

That's what I was going to do. That's all I was going to focus on. You only live once. That's all, that's it. So I was going to, you know, seize the day and realize my dreams. And I moved up to L.A. and struggled for a good year and a half, two years doing the acting thing. Now, this whole time, I had considered myself a Christian.

I grew up on the Lutheran Church. I would have told you that I was a Christian, would have argued for it, which is odd because I came out of a whole scene that isn't very Christian or conservative in that regard. So I was kind of an odd man out in that regard. But anyways, I wanted to not abandon that completely. And I was having a, I forget the conversation, but I had this friend. She was also an actress, and we were spending a lot of time together. And she says, you should meet my friend Stacey Evans.

So I said, okay, I'll meet Stacey. She says, he's a Christian. And I was like, all right, sure. Because I was never going to church. I'd always drive by a church. I'd maybe see a Lutheran church. I'd be like, you know, I should go there someday. But then I never would.

And I would just sleep in Sunday. And so anyways, I went to church with Stacey Evans, and it was Grace Community Church. This is John MacArthur's Church, there where he's the senior pastor. And I didn't know anything about it, didn't really think anything of it. And went to church, don't remember what John preached on, then went to an adult Sunday school, is what they have. They call them fellowship groups. This one, I think, was called Grace Life. and I don't remember exactly what the sermon was about,

but it had to do with the return of Christ and that it was this very real thing he was talking about, how Jesus was really going to return. And I was like, okay, I never really thought about that before. That's really interesting. Like he talked about Jesus' feet is going to touch the earth once again, and he's going to be standing here in front of us. And I was like, that's wild.

I never thought about that, never really got that far, I guess. And I remember these two old ladies at the front row were like, yeah, they were like super excited. Because he was like, aren't you excited about that? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, wow, they're really emotional about that. And I don't know if I have that. I don't know if I'm really excited about it or if I've even thought about it. So anyways, I started studying the Bible more.

And you can't help but study the Bible at Grace Community Church because that's all they do. the pastor there teaches you how to study the Bible. He doesn't just teach it himself. He teaches you how to study it and learn it yourself so that you can be a good Berean and have discernment and all of that. So I started studying. I started going to a Bible study. They were studying the book of James. That was the first book I'd ever studied.

And James talks about a few things, but one of the through lines through James is that your works are the result of your faith. And I had not considered that before too much. Anyways, I was learning that. And during that year, this is the late 90s, I realized, I don't, I'm a Christian now. Like, I actually have conviction over my sin. I'm understanding the Bible. I actually understand the gospel now. Before I would talk about the gospel, like Jesus died for your sins. I don't know if I really knew what that meant. I would just say it. But the fact that there was this legal ramification for my sin, that I have sinned against a holy God, and that there is a punishment that comes with that. And that Christ is God, God, the son, who wrapped himself in frail humanity,

and is the king of humanity, and receives that punishment on my behalf. And everybody who repents recognizes that they are a sinner and turns from their sin and turns to Christ as the only hope for their salvation, that legally counts to their account. And I am looked at then as God doesn't see me, Shannon the sinner. He sees Christ's righteousness. And he sees that Christ paid the penalty for my sin so that I'm paid for completely fully. And so I was understanding this. And I had conviction over my sin and I was repenting. I was confessing my sin to the Lord and I was understanding the Bible. And I had a desire to read it for the first time. I was reading it every day. I loved reading the Bible. And I just thought this is, I'm thinking about the Bible more than

I've thought about anything else. I'm thinking about it more than girls. I'm like, that's crazy. Thinking about the Bible more than girls. So I realized I'm a Christian now. And I don't know when that happened. It just soaked in. And I knew as a Christian, I thought I was a Christian growing up, but I wasn't. So I knew, I looked back. I'm like, I don't think I was a Christian back then, but I am now. And I was deceived about my faith because there was no fruit of my faith. I was no fruit of my faith. I didn't really follow Christ. I just said I believe, but I belief is like nothing with if you're not willing to follow him. So that's not real belief. You know, that's not faith. Anyway, so then I just got plugged in from there. And then I was like,

you know what? I lost the desire for acting. I'm going to film school. I've always been a storyteller or a writer. I'm going back to college. So I went back to college and start working on a portfolio to get into this one college that I wanted to get into. That was art center college of design. and I got accepted into that school in Pasadena. And it's kind of like this unique private school up in the hills. And I really fell in love with it. And I got in and I was jazzed about getting into that. And so I learned a lot with that.

And then after that I just, you know, tried to find my way as a Christian who's a filmmaker, which is not easy to do. It's not an easy pathway. I mean, already it's, there's no one set pathway in Hollywood. to try to like get your films done or get somewhere with your career. It's just different for everybody.

So as a Christian, it's even more like obscure. It's like I don't know how to navigate this. So I wrote screenplays. I had a screenplay optioned. The gentleman that wrote seven pounds with Will Smith optioned it. So that was a real shot in the arm. I really liked that. I wanted, you know, it's like, okay, somebody who's in this industry who does this for a living

likes my writing. And so that was good. And then I just kept writing and then I eventually kept doing my own stuff. And then during that, you know, you'd work anything you can because you've got to pay the bills. So I worked in all facets of the industry from locations to a production assistant to all kinds of things. Anything I can do to make to pay my rent, basically. And, and then I would do all kinds of other odd jobs. I've had so many jobs. I mean, the list goes, I mean, literally, probably 30, different jobs in my lifetime, from landscaper to mover to whatever, I've worked at all. And so there was a big struggle there trying to find my way. But I knew I was a writer and I knew I could do well if given the opportunity. And there came a point where I said, you know, I'm not going to do

anything unless it's in my field. Unless I'm considered a creative in this position, I'm not doing it. And that's when doors really started opening for me. I worked for a, studio that I was the head writer there and we would produce and direct commercials for thousands of different clients for this huge marketing firm. And so that was great. And so I was just finding my way doing things like that. And then during lockdowns, the church that I had been plugged into because I became a Christian there, I saw a shift in there how they were approaching media during the lockdowns and that they were leaning more into it. And I think that, they were seeing more value in it than they did before. Because Grace Community Church, I wouldn't

say that they ignored media. In fact, I'd say John MacArthur really values media because he has a radio program. And I think he's seen the value of media his whole life to minister to people. Then that would be grace to you. That's the main thing that he's focused on. Grace to you. But I wouldn't say that the church in all wasn't really totally capitalizing on what it could do as far as media. there were opportunities arising. I saw a door opening there. They asked me to come on, but I didn't really get it at first.

And I said, no, I don't think that's a good career move. I'm going to keep, what would I go work for my church? That sounds kind of lame, honestly. That's terrible to say. But in my mind, I thought. But it's honest. Yeah, I'm going to go work for my church.

That sounds lame. That's what people do that aren't professionals. Right? That's how you see them. Sorry, that's not true. I know that's not true. There's tons of professionals. Yeah, but it's honest.

You don't know. I mean, people could juggle about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I eventually said no. And then I was kind of seeing the situation where I was at and what was, maybe there were some opportunities there that could be actually, even as a filmmaker, really satisfying. And so I thought, you know what?

I'm going to go for it. And I've always been a risk taker. I mean, go all the way back to, I just dropped everything and moved to L.A. to become an actor. I just risk everything. That's what I do. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out. But this time, it really worked out. And I saw the Lord's hand in it. And I saw doors open. And I saw a pathway that he was clearly orchestrating. And I saw obstacles. I'm like, how is this going to be overcome? And sure enough, there was an answer that the Lord and his sovereignty made away. And so I saw that through the whole making of this film. And it was a great, I mean,

this is awesome. Before we get to the film yeah you you you I love it when a guest does this because you've just rattled off about 70 things that I'm like okay now how do we how do we pull this back around when you say clearly orchestrating you just said I'm it's kind of lame I'm not going to work there and you know I'm not I'm not doing that that's you know that's people who aren't a professional how do you get from that to like oh I can see there's oh boy I can okay there's a door and and what goes through your brain like what happened Shannon through that

little time, that all of a sudden you're like, okay, let's do this. Yeah, because the reality was where I was at, I saw that road just as boring. I started seeing all these commercials and what I was being asked to do, and it was so corporate. And I know church is corporate, too. But it's even more corporate. You're dealing with a marketing manager, and you're dealing with agency, and then you're dealing with the client. And then you're dealing with it. And it's just like, by the time you're done with it, it's lost all its soul, whatever you are working on. And you're like, is it really that great what I'm doing? Is it really furthering my career? Am I, is this, is this what I want to do? And so at the end of the day, I was like, you know,

if they want to tell stories at church and they're willing to open the door and let me go through that door and just kind of leave me alone, which is kind of what I was seeing, like that that could be a possibility that they would, leave me alone, that they would just trust me and not micromanage me, that that was really appealing to me as an artist. And so then I was like, well, I'm already canceled just by the way of my demeanor. I was born canceled. So there's nothing to save there. You know, so who cares? Who cares about going the path of like a more professional way to do it? Because they're not going to like me anyways. Who am I kidding? The stories I want to tell, the way I think and what I'm going to say. And that's the other thing.

Like in this corporate world, it was super woke. And I was so sick of it. I was so sick of the, I mean, it was just constant in the way that they approach things and the way they talked about things and the way you had to edit yourself constantly and what you would say and all this stuff. And it was just, I'm so sick of that. And it was getting worse and worse and worse. But that's not going to be at church. Church isn't going to be woke at all. They're going to be like the opposite of that.

It's going to be like me. They're going to offend everybody. So I just thought that's more appealing creatively And who cares? I'm already canceled So just go with what you want to do And if I can tell stories there that I actually care about Then that actually is more valuable to me

To see where the church does with this Yeah and I don't know if I'll always be here I don't know if they'll always want to do films like this But that's why What year did you sign on to work with the church? 2020, I think. Had COVID hit then? Yeah, it just started to hit.

Had the insanity hit yet? Yeah, it hit and we were locked down. And then we opened back up. And then when we opened up in July, I had quit my job and come on by September 2020, if I'm correct. Right? Wasn't it 2020 when all that went down? Yeah, it's 2020. It started in 2019, but then it hit in 2020, right?

Yeah. I mean, here it was March when they shut everything down. Yeah, that's when it was. That's what it was for us, too. We did at the same time, 15 days to stop the spread. But then I came on after we opened back up and there was like a kid's show opportunity to work on. It's like, oh, that's fun. But I knew we were going to do more projects. And I knew that we were talking about what excited me was building a platform where you could have a streaming platform. for these stories where they could live. And I was like that, I had always been interested in that, by the way. Not necessarily the streaming thing, but like 10 years ago, I left this out of the story. 10 years ago, I tried to start my own television station where I would have a platform for

the stories that I wanted. It was grandiose. I'm like, what was I thinking? And it obviously didn't happen. I made a website. I started a nonprofit. I was like pushing it around to my friends. I was going to pastors.

this is what I'm trying to do, but it's, you know, it's going to be Christian, but it's not going to be cheesy or lame. It's going to be good storytelling, and we're going to have good programs that are going to edifying. And then 10 years down the road, this starts to happen, and I hear talks of that. And so that kind of

like interested me, because I had kind of given up on that, but when that started, that door started to open there, and I'm not saying that's what's going to happen here. I don't know. But you can see with what Angel Studios just did with picking up Sound of Freedom, right?

Like they're, you know, is it this big blockbuster movie? Like, I mean, is it a good movie? Yes. Is it got the special effects of like, I don't know, what's one of the big new ones, Mission Impossible or something? No, no. Right, but at the same time, it was very well done. Yeah.

And I just, I've heard more and more people telling me about the chosen lately, right? Right. And if you watch that show, it's very well done. And can you do more of those things? Yes. And as far as like children go, I got kids. Yeah.

And I'm like, would it be nice to have something that wasn't going to teach inclusivity and things like that that I keep reading in the, you know, the description? I'm like, yeah, that'd be nice. It'd be nice just to have a kid's show and not have to go crazy on anything. That'd be nice. Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, there is a people at the end of the day just want a good story. And Hollywood's not really doing that.

What they're giving us is, well, they're giving us. their agenda and it's very preachy and you can tell it's totally injected into the stories and now the Marvel movies and all this stuff you're like why I don't even understand why that's there why it has to be a part of this and um well just look or look at Disney now with the with the new snow white coming out that has no you know like you're like that isn't even that isn't even the story like yeah it's so terrible I haven't seen it yet but I heard I saw the actresses being interviewed for it I'm like this is ridiculous yeah you know and their big thing was the prince doesn't save her. That's what's important.

That's what important. Yeah. And, and I mean, I saw some stills of it and it looked like a community playhouse type of design. You know what I'm saying? It was like the wardrobe looked like it just came off a wardrobe truck. It didn't look good. It didn't look

it looked kind of low budget. I mean, it just... It's funny. I don't know. Hey, maybe maybe it's going to break box office records and everything else. But I look at it and I go like, nobody like where where is the marketing team to go nobody wants this yeah like people are so over being forced fed the junk that nobody's gonna nobody wants it well at the end of the day i think these people that are calling the shots really because i think some people say well capitalism will rule in the day

and when they really get hurt in the box office they'll change i don't think that's the case i think they're audiologs through and through and yeah the they'll lose money but they'll make enough and that'll be fine and they're just going to keep doing what they're doing and they'll find their audience and they'll be they won't make the money they made before but i don't think they care um unless you're like bud light or something like that i think it matters to those people um but to hollywood i think they're they are driven by their ideology not not the dollar what's your thoughts on uh the Oscars have they're changing their specifications for like the you know film of the year and different things like that uh coming

in 2024, I believe. I don't know anything about it. You don't know anything about that? Where you have to have diversity in your cast, you know, so many people got to be, in order to be, in order to be eligible, is the word I'm looking for, for certain awards, you have to have a cast that, you know, supports minorities and, you know, and that can be done through a bunch of different ways and blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're like, this is, or, or, you know,

have a movie that's based about a minority, right? The story has a lead that's a minority and different things. You're like, oh, man, we, this is, when you talk about them not caring, you might be right, because, like, we're going to be more and more force-fed stories that, you know, like, if it's a good story, it doesn't matter who it's about it, it can be about a minority, it can be not. Right. It's a great story.

That's right. If it's not a great story, it's not a great story. It's got stuck. Nobody wants to go watch it. That's right. And if you cast somebody, a minority. who is not as necessarily as good as somebody who's not a minority, then why are you making a decision?

You're just making a decision on race, which is racism. So, I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't think they do care. And I think they're, they are in an echo chamber. So they don't really feel the benefit, the, the ramifications. Even if they lose some money, they don't really feel that. They're going to be fine. So I don't think they're going to change at all. And they'll just have their own little universe.

But the exciting thing is that that leaves a vacuum Because now that they've shown who they really are There's a vacuum over on this side of things Where you can actually capitalize on that And have productions that fill that vacuum That people will go spend money and go see and appreciate So if we do that, then we don't have to go through their pathway There are the gatekeepers

We can bypass them completely and go straight to the audience Which is obviously what sound-of-reported. freedom is done and you can do if you if you put your mind to it you there there there is an opportunity there and you don't ever need those people ever again so who cares let them go do their stupid things and then um you know we'll we'll make our own market over here before i get to your documentary because i want to i know that's why we're here yeah i got one thing i'm like okay sean go to the document and i'm like ah but if i don't ask it's going to bother me and i'm sit here and I'm going to think about it. So I'm going to go back to something you said earlier.

You were talking about you went to Grace Community Church for the first time. And that they're talking about Jesus actually putting his feet back down on the earth. Was your initial thought? Oh, I never really thought of that. Or was your initial thought, or maybe I'm just making the story out because my initial thought is the skeptical side of me. It's like, but is he? And why would you jump to? Yes, he is. I just feel like, is there more to that story? Or is that exactly what you thought the day of? And you're like, no, actually, that makes complete sense.

And I've really got to dive into it. Because I'm just kind of curious, because you went a year and a half of struggling in L.A. You jumped, you went in, you're struggling along. You get invited to a church. And you're like, huh, this is something. I'm just kind of curious what it was. Yeah. I think that, first of all, I believe that the Lord draws you.

I believe that the Holy Spirit is what illuminates you to, things like that and gives you understanding. And I think that's what was starting to happen. I think that I went to, I think that I went to a church that never talked about that. In fact, they didn't talk about anything. They would say very churchy things. And I don't even know if the people there actually really believed or if they just were like, you know, this is what we do. We're in America. We're the good guys. We go to church. But it didn't go very deep. And so maybe what I was responding to was like an actual teaching in a sermon that made me think beyond the surface of what I was claiming I believed. You know, because now it's like, okay, well, this is if Jesus, because I just never, and honestly, I don't think the Lutheran Church really focuses on the return of Christ.

So it's not something that was actually talked about too much. I mean, maybe there are out there that do. I'm sure there are. But it's not even Luther himself kind of died in his 50s and didn't really get to that kind of stuff, I guess. So it's not something that talked about a whole lot. And so you start to think of heaven and the afterlife as this very ethereal, disembodied thing that you go into when you die.

And Jesus is there. But then when it became, well, Jesus is resurrected, and he has a resurrected body, and he's actually going to return to the earth and he's going to set up his kingdom on the earth, things became, I had to ask myself a question, well, that sounds very real.

Like, it doesn't sound ethereal and disembodied, spiritual mumbo-jumbo necessarily. It feels like that there is this real thing about the future and Jesus is going to really return. And I thought that was wild. And to understand that and actually believe that now, I don't know if there was some kind of mechanical thing that you're looking for if that's what you're asking for where it was like tick tick

tick tick ding that's it and now i believe you've you've given me enough into your insight that just makes this story make more sense that's that's all i was looking for because yeah you know um in the middle of covid and certainly uh being at grace community church in california you guys uh had your own story and up here in canada you know i i i'm i'll be honest i wasn't going you know grew up in a Christian family that went to church every Sunday, but everything you're saying, I'm like, yeah, I get, yeah, I get. And then for close to 20 years, it's been close to 20 years. I haven't really gone back to church, you know, from time to time,

haven't really thought much about it. And honestly, Shannon, you know, I just haven't really given it much thought. I thought, you know, mumbo-jumbo, I don't know what's got everybody also worked up about. I don't see anything that isn't seen, you know. physical science, blah, blah, blah, I don't know. Right, right. And then COVID came along. And Sean stopped talking sports and started talking doctors, lawyers, professors,

just everyday people. And the longer I talked, the more I did not understand. And the more I was like, something is going on here. And, you know, and it just kept progressing. And then you just kind of slam into this world of, there's a whole lot more going on here than what they're telling me. And then the harder I, I searched the more it drew me back to the Bible and more not from a I don't fully

understand all this so you you can certainly add in your comments but you know as I searched for the truth it just I went where can you find some truth and I know there's gonna be people who argue with me on this and that's fine I'm like you know I'm listening to a lot of smart people and I never thought I'd say this but Jesus was a pretty smart guy maybe I should go read what he said and And so then I started reading, you know, the red letters. And I, and then I'm like, but there's something missing. Like I don't understand the full story.

Like maybe I should just start reading the New Testament. And I started reading the New Testament. Some weird stuff started happening. I'm like, hmm, this is kind of, this is kind of strange. Because like when you say you've gone to all these churches and, you know, it's like, do we, like, have we actually talked about anything? Like we are, you know, I just, I, either I didn't see it or exactly. exactly what you're saying was working, because as soon as I start reading the Bible by myself,

I mean, I just talk about the level of peace. Just start reading the Bible and praying once a day and all of a sudden, huh. Yeah. And, you know, through COVID, well, I mean, your documentary talks to a couple of the pastures up here. They started arrest and pastors. They made singing illegal.

They made going to church like this, I mean, they just tore everything from fabric of society. And I was thinking like, man, Like, I would have thought the churches, the pastors would have been irate. Like every one of them would have stood up and said, you cannot do this. We're all going to jail. So there wasn't. So then I started scratching my head even more.

Like, what is going on? And so I guess when you go back to your younger days of like, oh, they said Jesus' feet were going to go on. I'm like, huh, that hasn't been, you know, but that's why I really wanted to pick your brain a bit more. Yeah, yeah. Because I wanted the meat. I want. And so, once again, I've only watched the trailer of your documentary, Shannon. And I go, like, one of the lines that sticks out to me is when the churches fall silent, the only religion left is the state.

And that is Canada. Except, of course, we had, you know, James Coates, Tim Stevens, the list goes on. There are others. But it's not like there was 500 of them. And so I'm rambling now. And I, you know. No, no. Yeah.

It's all good stuff. No, I mean, I think that's the majority of the church. I think that the churches that stood up. And the churches that actually, because I was telling you my previous interactions with church, and then when I came to a church where they were like teaching the Bible, and it was about expository preaching, and it was, you know, this letter that Paul, the apostle wrote, let's say Romans, we'll pick that one, he wrote it to people in Rome. And when you write a letter to somebody, you are communicating a specific thing, which is

means it has a correct interpretation, which means you could find out what it actually all means and not read it like it's some kind of just, I don't know, nice little poem that could mean anything, and I can make it mean whatever I want, which is what most churches do. So they're not even grounded in truth. So when a church is grounded in truth, the discernment level rises. They're spiritual discernment. There's discernment around the world because their Christian worldview now is vibrant and fool, and they're seeing with the correct lenses of what's going on. And, you know, those,

not every church respond that I would say, there are some churches that were still vibrant, but didn't necessarily get this right. But the majority of the churches, it shows you that the majority of the churches aren't actually teaching the Bible like that, which is why they get it so wrong when something like this happens. And they just lay down because they don't even, I don't know, there may be, they're not even churches. And some of those churches, have never even gotten back together again, which is maybe it's a good thing that they close down for good. It's wild to me, Shannon.

What I see, and I can be wrong on this, I can always be wrong, but there's a ton of people turning back to the Bible right now. It's quite, I don't know, I'm going to say unusual, because even myself, you know, I'm reading the Bible. What a strange thing, you know, I got to, I will stop saying it here at some point, you know. but you know a year ago that wouldn't have been the thing except i hear it all the time i hear people yeah like i'm i'm identical you know COVID has unleashed a whole bunch of things one of them you know and it's whatever you know all the ugliness it came one of the beautiful things is people are like

really digging into this because like where where is it and but they're not fleeing back or fleeing they're not running back to the churches i guess because they're looking for somebody who and And I guess when I come full circle, the Grace Community Church, when you go back to your younger days, that's what enticed you, that's what brought you in because you're like, holy man. I think is, you know, when I listen to you, it's like, what is going on here? Like this actually makes sense. Here's it.

Yeah. You know, and certainly there are a lot of those out there. I'm not here trying to slight any church or any pastor or anything. It's just for me, I, you know, I think of through my life, I just haven't sat down and been like blown back by like, holy crap, like this is something. I found it on YouTube a couple of things. of times with pastors, but more than not, I haven't sat down and been like, huh, that was something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the church, a church that teaches the Bible, I think that's what I was

responding to. I was like, oh, there's a lot here, and I can understand it, and it's amazing. And, and again, the spirit illuminates you to understand that. I think, you know, we are saved by the Holy Spirit. But churches that do what they're supposed to do, I would say this, has a, and this is in the documentary, or at least, well, I shouldn't say it's in the documentary, but when churches do what they're supposed to do, society around it thrives. When you look at church history, and I have church history as part of this, one thing that I realized was what the covenanters did in the 1600s by holding firm on these conviction that Christ is the head of the church. and they weren't going to hand it over to the state,

they lost their lives over that. And there was a huge conflict over that for 100 years. And then they just, you know, they're in this, the new world has been discovered. There's this opportunity to create a new country, a new nation, and what inspires the design of that nation, what these Christians have been fleshing out, starting with the Reformation,

but then really fleshed out, you know, during this time of conflict between the church and the state, and this concept that there is a separation of church and state. And that's actually a biblical truth. You follow the Bible. The Bible prescribes the government certain authority, but it's prescribed by God and he is not given authority over the church. When Jesus says, looks at the coin and he says,

whose is this, whose face is on this? And they say, Caesar's. He says, give unto Caesar's. What is Caesar's? Give unto the church, give unto God. what is gods. The church is not Caesars. So there's a separation in the Bible throughout it, and there's these spheres of authority. The church is a sphere of authority. The family is a sphere of authority. And the state is the sphere of authority. But they are not stacked one

on top of the other. One doesn't answer to the other. And that's a biblical concept. And that really had to do with how America is designed. So think about if the church didn't do what it was supposed to do and suffer through that, you really wouldn't have America. You wouldn't have it designed the way it is. And so if you look at Alberta and you look at James Coates and Tim Stevens, the church takes a stand. It's on national news. Their churches start to grow. The whole world watches them get arrested and put in maximum security prison. And Alberta's watching this. I believe that as a result of the church taking the stand that they took, that shifted things in Alberta, and people are better off for it. And that was, I believe, because of the church doing what they're supposed to do.

So when the church does what it's supposed to do, good things can happen for everybody, even people who aren't even Christians. Anyway, that's my point of view on it. Well, let's talk about this documentary, you know, the essential church. I want to start with like, can it be showed in Canada? Like, is it at movie theaters? You know, and certainly I'm rehashing a bit of what you and Layton talked about. But, you know, like, reached out to the theater in town. And like, no, you know, they didn't say it's like it could never be brought in,

but currently as it sits, it can't be brought to Lloyd Minster in the theater as it sits. And I was just curious, you know, like, did you ever want to release it in Canada? was that a thought process or you know because you got Canadian pastors you got late and grain you know you got a bunch of different people I thought maybe we could just talk a little bit about that yeah so I would say originally we didn't even know if we would have a theatrical release I think it would have been really beneficial if we at the very beginning had that goal and everybody had that goal and we were on the same page with that but I don't think everybody was I think the church was taking somewhat of a leap of faith with me.

Or, you know, they're like, yeah, I'm sure he'll do a good job, but we'll see when we see. And if it's good, then great. If it's not, then we'll just be like, okay, pat me on the head. Good job. We'll sell this in the bookstore at our church. And then, you know, not really talk about it so much. But they saw it and they loved it. And then it became, well, what if we tried to get in theaters?

So it was kind of a late thing. It wasn't a new thing. Or it wasn't a thing that was all planned from. the beginning. So because of that, we're already like way behind on everything. So then it was like, okay, well, we had set up this time to premiere it on July 23rd because that's a special date. And that happened to be on a Sunday. And we said, well, you know, the church helped us fund this so that we could make it so we should provide it free to our church. And so we had a premiere. And that was on July 23rd. So that locked in the time of the premiere and when it was going to be released.

at the same time, I say unfortunately, but who knows, Barbie and Oppenheimer's opening the next week, which is when our releases, and they're breaking records right now as far as ticket sales. And theaters don't want to give up their screens to a church documentary. You know, they don't want to give up to a documentary, first of all. That's not something a lot of people go to the theaters to watch and a Christian documentary on top of that.

So that's not that great. So we said, well, we're going to try and do the best we can. And we ended up getting about 300 theaters. We wanted way more than that, but it became apparent that that would be impossible. But the fact that we got 300 theaters was amazing and that we made a profit. It was amazing. I mean, we heard of people driving two hours to go see this movie. I know of people that drove from Canada over the border to find a theater to watch.

the movie. I know some a family that drove four hours. So and that was without advertising. That was just word of mouth. Um, that we got the word out and, and we were able to do well. Now, evidently to get in Canada, there's a lot of money you have to spend. And from what I've, what I've been told is you have to be approved by the government. So I don't know all the legitimacy of that. I'm sure maybe they would eventually approve us, but you'd also have to spend a lot of money. And it's a long, a long road. And so it just became like, well, it's not going to happen for Canada,

which is a bummer because half of the stories in Canada. But what we have, if you go to essential churchmovie.com, essential churchmovie.com, we have pre-orders for Blu-rays and DVDs. And eventually, I'm sure we're going to have a way to buy it digitally, which everybody can get it instantly then, and they don't even have to order it through the mail. but you can get it now.

You can pre-order now, and then you'll probably be watching it in September for everybody in Canada. But there is not going to be a theater in Canada that's going to hold it. Unfortunately, it just didn't work out that way. When you started this project and you started talking, you know,

you've lived COVID, you've seen the different things that have happened to your church and you've seen the stories of Canada and everything else, when you sat down and started to put this thing together, is there anything that sticks out to you about whether it's the filming of it or some of the stories that come together, the similarities, I don't know.

I guess I'm just kind of curious. Yeah. Well, I think the thing that's fascinating about it is the parallels with church history. There was a time, like I was saying in the 1600s, where the state wanted to regulate the church. They were doing it through what was called the Book of Common Prayer. And the church was saying, you know, you can't. can be a, to the king, you can be a member of the church, but you can't be the head of the church.

Because the Bible says only Christ is the head of the church. So this play to regulate our service would also be allowing you a position in the church that's not yours. So we're never going to be okay with that. And a civil war broke out over that. So the church, I mean, that's a fundamental doctored, and that's something that's happened throughout history. And even the Bible, I'll never look at Exodus the same. The Exodus is Pharaoh, the government, telling believers, this is what you need to do for your worship. He was trying to regulate their worship. And God said, not only can you not do that, I'm taking them, and they're leaving. And the state said, no, you can't do that. They answer to us. We regulate them. We own them. And God makes an example.

of them. You go to the book of Daniel. Daniel is given a temporary mandate to, that he is not to pray during this time or whatever. And what is his response to that? He does it anyways. And not only that, he opens up his windows to where he lives so that the whole city that's walking by will see and hear him pray. He defied the governments. The government had to be. The government had no jurisdiction over his worship. They have no jurisdiction with that. And that's been consistent throughout the Bible. You go to the New Testament. You see the same thing. They were told to stop preaching the gospel. They say we obey God rather than men. In Hebrews, it says, do not forsake gathering together like some have done. So it's a command from God to gather together. We're not

to forsake that. So when a government comes along and says, you can't. can't do that. We will decide when you can and cannot do that. They don't have the authority to do that. Individual believers before Christ in the liberty of Christ can decide, based on their own medical condition, what's best for them. That's different. But the church can be remain open and the individuals can come and go as they please. And they'll know that better than the state. But the state doesn't have any jurisdiction over the church to mandate those things spiritually. So we see that not only in biblically, but then we see it throughout church history. And it's a constant conflict. It's clear that Satan always makes a play for the government. So it's important for Christians

to understand this because they need to stop seeing the government as neutral and start understanding that regardless of the motives of our political leaders, whether they claim they're for righteous reasons or not, there is something going on beyond this. which is what you alluded to when you said during this COVID stuff, I started reading the Bible because it became apparent to you that there are forces beyond what we're dealing with that are orchestrating things. There's this good and evil thing going on, and you're like, I'm trying to figure this out.

And Satan behind the scenes is always making a play for the government. And a Christian should be aware of that and say, you know, just because the government is asking me or telling me to do something, I should, you know, run it through the ringers. if you will. I should use my discernment. I need to bring my Christian worldview to this and not just by default put them in a position

of neutrality because they're not. That's, um, yeah, the good and evil, you know, just, um, there was a hard pill to swallow, you know, you think, uh, you think, you know, you growing up here in Canada,

I don't know. And, and I'll have some Canadians be like, oh, no, no, we knew the government wasn't good from the get-go and, and they've been following along forever. But I think there's a healthy majority or a healthy percentage of the population. It's just like, oh, no, the government's got our best interest at heart, we pay her taxes, we go to work,

we go home, it's not a big deal, and, you know, one day you wake up and that's not quite the thing. Yeah. And that's a it's a very hard pill this wall. I mean, it's, it's, it's depressing almost, you know? It's just like,

what on, like, what? What? You know, and, and, And the more you pull on that little string, the more it unravels. And you're just like, can I put it back in? Can I get, no, I can't do that? Okay. Yeah, I mean, the Bible tells us that human beings are depraved. We're all depraved.

The difference between me and somebody who doesn't believe is the fact that I recognize my sin and I've turned to Christ. It's not that I'm more righteous than somebody else. It's just that I actually understand the truth about myself. And I understand the truth about humanity, because the Lord has opened my eyes to it. So when the government obviously is filled with human beings, you have to be skeptical always because human beings are depraved.

And so you need to, like I said, use discernment and go to God's word and say, is this true? Is this how I should handle this? Should I just hand over the church to the state? And the answer is no. You should not. You know, you mentioned government and how it wants to control the church or has always, through history, how it's wanted to kind of merge the state at the top of the church, you know.

When you look at Hollywood, you mentioned that being a Christian is difficult. Why is that? Why does Hollywood, like, why do they care? Because if you make a great film about this notable figure named Jesus or anything there, and it's a bestseller, isn't that what they're after? or has it never been that way? I think to some degree it's that way, and it probably was that way

in the way back in the golden age when the people in the 50s and 60s ran Hollywood. At the end of the day, I think they were looking at ticket sales, and I think the Bible then and today still sells. People are interested in stories of the Bible or stories like that. But I would say it's difficult.

When I said that, it was in the context, yeah, they would never accept my point of view on the things. That's not what they want. Look, at the end of the day, they are, they are, they have their own worldview. It's antithetical to mine. And they are convinced that their side is the righteous side. And anything that opposes that is bad. I mean, they are convinced that, I mean, look it, they're convinced that, giving a child chemical castration is a good thing. That's the left. They're convinced that chemical castration is good for a kid who's confused about his gender.

And they're convinced that that kid should be able to get that chemical castration without their parents knowing. And the state should help them do that. This is what they believe is good. So they have it completely upside down. So I come along and I'm the exact opposite. Obviously, I'm not going to be welcomed into the club. But it's funny, you know, that right now is, I think is, you know, the, there's a growing number of population that agrees exactly what you're talking about, right?

That is like, that's insane. Yeah. And we should really help support projects that help expose how insane that is. And then there's the quiet majority, as they're always called. They're sitting there going, you know, they just haven't, it's almost like they, you know, here in Canada at least, Shannon. We, you know, we've always had the CBC and, you know, state-run media, right, or state-funded media, I should say.

And we haven't really had anything to combat that. Now, that's changed, but now we've got bills in place, and that's a whole other story down a dark road. But, you know, I've been talking with lots of people, and they're like, no, like, it's insane. And you just, you know, I don't support it, but, you know, like, I'm just trying to get by and run my business and everything else. And you're like, so when I hear you say that, and it's like, well, they don't support my worldview.

It's like, but I think a lot of people support your worldview. Yeah, I agree. That's what I was saying earlier, that they have really exposed themselves, and there really is a vacuum. And there's something available now where that wasn't there before, where we don't need them as the gatekeepers. And we can go straight to our audience. And I think that scares them, honestly. I think it scares them They clearly

And I think about that I was like in the future If they really understand who I am Why wouldn't they just Why would they not even let me in the theaters? I heard that the cinema I watched the president watch the film And loved it and he's a Christian

That's what I understand is what I heard And so he wanted it in their theaters But there's a lot of theaters that might say no So we may have our work cut out for us To have a different alternate Economy if you will but we can do that. We have the ability to do that.

And you can see it happening already. Well, before I tie up all your day, I do appreciate you giving me some time. I want to slide into the crude master final question. It's what's next for Shannon? And if there is a way to help, how do we help? Yeah. Well, you can always follow me at SP Halliday on Twitter and Instagram,

and so you can always keep up to date with me personally that way. we are the grace church grace productions it's g at gccc grace productions on instagram and twitter on to see what we continue to do here um i don't know we're working through that we've had some success with this and i think it when the dust settles if we were able to make the money back for the church and even make a little bit of profit then we can say making movies like this isn't a burden on our local body, our local church, and that we can maybe do more projects like this in the future through the church. So hopefully that will be the case. We'll see what happens. And yeah, I don't know what my next move is. I know this. It's beyond the,

I'm beyond the point of return. So this is what I do. I'm a filmmaker. So sink or swim. So far, I'm swimming at the moment. I'm going to make more films and I'm going to put them out there. So that's the goal. I just don't know exactly what those are, but I have lots of ideas and I have lots of stories.

Let me tell you. I have lots of stories. And I need to just finish those stories up and push them out there. You know, you sound like, yeah, I'm a singer-swim, I'm a podcaster. Right now I'm treading water. You know, it's like I'm treading.

What's one story that you have that you'd love to tell them? Like, I mean, you say you've got to finish them, but you must have a story. you're like, man, this needs to be told. Or maybe even from the gospels. There's a story you think that just needs to be shared. I tend to hold my cards pretty close to my chest with that kind of stuff.

But I will say this. You said people are returning to the Bible. I think the most important story we could tell right now is how we got the Bible and what it says. because I think that that's what needs to be put out there. If people are interested in the Bible, they need to know why they can trust it. Why can people trust the Bible? Because there's a lot that say they can.

Yeah, sure. Well, that's what the movie would answer, wouldn't it? And that would be a big question, right? But you can trust the Bible, first of all, because it's been proven true. it's been proven true in the sense that nothing about it I mean even Jordan Peterson right you know who Jordan Peterson is right

certainly do yeah yeah so he's a data guy he would not call himself a Christian but he is enamored with the Bible and he is in awe of it and why is that because what it teaches is true and when human beings actually are believers of it

and practice it, society thrives. Like there's an aspect to it that when something is true, it's going to prove itself to be true. So I can't look, I'm not prepared to go into details like that. You're going to have to have me back on if I

ever make a movie about that. Well, I mean, maybe you should just make a movie about that, Shannon. Yeah, I think I should. And then I can answer your question thoroughly. But I think that's a question that is always the most interesting. I think everybody's interested in that. I think people

who don't believe are interested in that. Bill Maher, right? He had a documentary called, was it religious, ridiculous, or whatever, where he was just saying it was all a bunch of hooey. He didn't, you know, and he made a documentary about it. So people who are from that camp and people who are from my camp, they would all be interested in that subject. And it's fascinating.

I don't think people even know that they've just, they're at the tip of the iceberg, but there's so much defense of the Bible that I don't think people know. And I think that a movie or a documentary about that would be valuable. I don't know if that'd be my next project or not, or Grace Productions is the next project, but that's something I personally want to do. Yeah, it's funny. You know, I hear a lot of, well, a lot of, like you say, two camps. You know, there's a lot of back and forth on, is it real?

isn't it real? Yeah. Is Christianity a bunch of fooie or, you know, and on and on and on? And it's funny, I just, you go, if you know, you know. And like, yeah, I would say this. I'm not going to, you know, no one's going to believe because I prove something to them. The reason somebody believes, look, the reason somebody doesn't believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior is a heart issue.

It's not an intellectual issue. It's a moral issue because at the end of the day, what they're disagreeing with is they're disagreeing with who God is and how he's done things. And that's a moral issue. They're saying, I don't believe the Bible. I believe that it's immoral. That the way God has done things, why does there have to be punishment for sin? Why does there have to be suffering?

Why does there have to be this? Why does there have to be that? God's clearly done it the bad way. I will never believe in a God like that where there's a world with cancer. You know, that's a moral problem people have. with God and that's a heart issue, not an intellectual issue. It's not unreasonable to believe that there has to be a creator and that we can't just come from nothing, right?

That's like logic, that's reason, but no one's going to believe because of that. I don't think most people think about it. I just certainly if you're arguing, if you're arguing the Bible, Jesus, I'm sure there's a whole list of arguments. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people think about it. Maybe I'm wrong on that. I just, you know, my big criticism for the longest time of Christianity or maybe the, you know, or maybe the Bible was the things done in his name, right?

So the Crusades and different things, the murders, the mass genocides, etc. The fact that human beings have been in control of, at least I think, you know, I don't actually know this. You know, it's one of the things it's like, do I actually know this or not anymore? But in my brain I went, they've been in control of the construction of the Bible. And then they took the Bible from a different language and they pulled across and translated into, well, English, for one. And now there's like, you know, and I go, how much can you trust that? Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting question. I'm actually reading a book right now called Scribes in Scripture, scribes in Scripture, and it deals with all of that.

And it goes through the whole process of how the Bible. was copied and given generation to generation and what is the process of coming to a strong translation of the original text and how they can

be confident in that. And I think some people, skeptics would look at that and they see that's the problem with it. There's all this copying that goes on. And there could be errors. But when you break it down and you look at it, it's actually a strength of the Bible. And there's no other book in the history of the world that has as much evidence in its actual manuscripts than any,

the only thing that comes close is Homer's, and that's still, Homer's Iliad, that's still way far away as far as having the proof that it's what the original text was. And, and, And there's nothing that compares to the Bible. You have the Dead Sea Scrolls that date 200 years before Christ, and you have the Messianic prophecies in those Dead Sea Scrolls, talking about the coming Messiah and talking about how he will suffer. And they have proof of that. I mean, that was the biggest find ever.

And the New Testament, that was the Old Testament. The New Testament has a ton of manuscripts. And there's a way that they can work. as a detective to really, it's called textual criticism. And they take all these things and they put it together. And like a detective, they figure out what, what is that the original verse? And it's fascinating. And I think the skeptic would say that's exactly why I don't believe.

But for me, I would say that's exactly why. That's one of the reasons why I can say it's abnormally true because of the evidence that they have and the way they go about it. It's a fascinating book. I think it's called, I'm reading it, but I forget the title of it. Scripture and scribes are either scribes in scripture. I don't know which order, but that's what it's called. That's what I'm reading right now.

And I have a stack of books right now that I'm reading on the subject. That I'm just going to go through and research it. Well, I appreciate you giving me some time, day. It's been, I wasn't sure what I was signed up for today. I never know with any guest, and I mean that in the best way possible, because I've enjoyed our little conversation here. Um, as far as the essential church goes, for people listening who are sitting here in Canada or wherever and want to, you know, sit down and watch it, um, just where do they go?

How do they get a copy? How do they see it? Uh, because I think a lot of people are going to want to support it, Shannon. Uh, you know, like certainly here in Alberta, uh, two of the, the, two of the pastors in the documentary are, you know, are Albertans for Pete's sake, let alone just Canadian. Yeah. Yeah, so they can, again, the only way that they're going to be able to see it is really by September. And it's either by pre-ordering a DVD or Blu-ray now on essential churchmovie.com.

There are some international shipping things we're dealing with. And so we're trying to get the cost down on that. And we're working with Grace to you to help us out with that. So we can kind of get it closer to the people in Canada so their shipping costs are less. So there's that what we're dealing with. but there will be a digital way to buy it. I'm sure we're looking into, you know, your Apple TV or Android type of thing,

wherever you buy your digital downloads for movies and things like that. You'll be able to do that soon. I'm guessing September. All of that in September. But you can pre-order now if you want a Blu-ray, which is what I'm going to have. I'm going to have the 4K version because it is shot in 4K and it's beautiful. So I don't even have one.

because they're not made yet. I won't get one until September, so I don't even have it. Of course, it's in the computer next door, so I can watch any time I want. But I don't want to watch it, because I've watched it more than anybody on the planet Earth. And I've loved it every time, but I think I don't need to watch it again.

But I will own one, for sure. I'll have it on my shell. And you can as well, if you pre-order on essential churchmovie.com. Well, I appreciate you giving me some time today, sir, and we'll look forward to September, most likely, then, when we can finally get our eyes on it. Yeah, and maybe if I ever do my Bible movie, the story of the Bible and what it says, I can come back on. We can talk about it.

We can rehash this conversation. For sure we can. We'll both be a little further along in life, and maybe it'll be, well, for sure, will be a different story. I'll be waiting for that, Shannon. I'm not kidding you. I'll be waiting to see what you pull off there. Okay. Hey, thanks for tuning in today, guys.

I hope you enjoyed it. Today's episode has been brought to by Calrock Industries with new used and refurbished oil and gas equipment in stock. Calrock is your best bet when it comes to finding equipment that fits your needs is within your budget and is ready as soon as you need it. They can even custom manufacture tanks and other equipment for your specific application. They're located here in Lloydminster, but I'm sure they can serve you wherever you are at. All you've got to do is go to calrock.ca for more information. I also want to remind people that Patreon, I just started posting back on it. We're going to give her a go here for the next six months.

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