Shaun Newman Podcast - #492 - Shawn Buckley

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Constitutional lawyer for the past 29 years who was lead council for the National Citizens Inquiry. He shares his insights from touring across Canada to hear citizens heartbreaking stories from mandates and lockdowns, as well as his thoughts on natural health products in regards to Bill C-47. Let me know what you thinkText me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastPatreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

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Since 1995, he's been a constitutional lawyer for Buckley and company law firm. I'm talking about Sean Buckley. So buckle up. Here we go. Well, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Sean Buckley. He's probably wondering, I'm like half juggling over here. I'm like, I've got to get a blow of water.

I'm like dying in here today. But how's Mr. Buckley doing? And thanks for joining me. Well, Sean, you know, I'm doing pretty good. I'm busier than I should be, but it's a good thing. Yeah, it feels like a whole lot of you folks are awfully busy. And you know how many times your name has come across? So I have the podcast on every episode.

I have my phone number so people can just like text me. And it's an interesting way to. kind of see who's trending, if you would, for my listeners or that audience, or my audience. And your name has come across my desk an awful, awful lot. So people seem to understand that you're busy, seem to like what you're doing. You seem to be coming across their desk an awful lot, which means it's coming across my desk. And I'm just going to start nice and simple. Who is Sean Buckley?

Because I feel like my audience knows more about you than I do. Yeah, well, that's a tough question because we're really just, we're all just people doing our own thing. But I'm a constitutional lawyer. I'm working on my 29th year of practice, although right now I'm not practicing law. I had to close my office last August because I was volunteering full-time for the National Citizens Inquiry. And I couldn't do both. That was taking up so much time. And that ended up being one of the most meaningful experiences of my life.

Sean, I don't know how much you've watched of it, but we ended up even just watching Sheila Lewis's testimony again two days ago because Sheila had has died and the NCI has put her high definition video up for people to watch and I cried again. I cried the first time when it was in person and I cried the second time and just the experience of ordinary people telling their stories was just fantastic and then for most of my practice I've been involved with the regulation of natural health products, trying to keep them on the market and running interference with Health Canada. And I find myself in that fight. That's likely why my name's coming across your desk, is I'm heavily involved in a campaign to try and get people active to protect our access to

natural health products. I was going to start with natural health products, but since you brought up the National Citizens inquiry, I'm really curious them. You mentioned 29 years of practice, right? your law firm and then you just and once again by all means I don't know if I heard this correct so correct me if I'm wrong but you just shut it down we're like you know what this national citizens inquiry like this is really important and I need to go do this or was it not that type of way it was it was a build up to like I think I need to go do this well you know it's interesting how God involves you with things Sean so um so I ended up being involved in that project with the other people that, you know, on the ground floor just conceived the idea and then started putting it together. And as it progressed, I just found that it was necessary for me to step in and do more and more and more and more. I don't know if you've been involved in projects, but sometimes other people are too busy with other things and not willing to make that a priority. And I just really had a sense that it was absolutely necessary for that project to fly.

And for it to fly is, you know, some of us had to get really, really involved. I mean, at the end of the day, there were, nobody's actually got a firm count, but between 800 and 1,000 volunteers that participated one way or another. And what a, what a crazy project. So, you know, we appointed four commissioners and basically marched them across the country. Like so we'd have, you know, so just even figure of the travel costs and hotels and meals and air flight. You have to rent the venue. We, you know, we made the right decision where we actually would fly our AV team so that we'd have continuity of how to set up and all of that, which turned out to be a really great decision.

But literally it cost us about $35,000 per venue. Well, we, you know, we started with no funds. We didn't, even till now to today, we. didn't get one large, you know, funder. You hear about those large funders that step in and make it easy. Like when I was up there during the hearings, telling people, please donate so we can do the next hearing, we really needed people to donate so that we could carry on the next hearing. Like it was, it was, but it happened. And the craziest thing, Sean, it's like you'd have like a thousand, $25 donations.

like just the sheer number of small donations. I've never seen that before. I don't know if that's ever happened in an adventure before. And then what happened was unexpected. Like we had anticipated we'd be able to get, you know, the key experts to come and testify and that we'd get a lot of citizens to come and testify. And all of that happened.

But until you actually do it, you don't know what flavor it's going to take on. I wasn't anticipating that on most days I would be weeping. How do you anticipate something like that? I wasn't anticipating that we would have witness after witness after witness drop out on the 11th hour because they were afraid of repercussions. You know, we weren't we weren't anticipating that. I didn't appreciate that the vaccine injured people were being treated as lepers. So they're, you know, tremendously injured.

But the medical system is just treating them awfully because they cannot accept that they exist, that their vaccine injured. So they're actually not being treated when they could be treated. Like today at September 1st, Sean, 2023 in Canada, And we are not addressing a health crisis that a large number of Canadians are facing because we're living a lie. It's absolutely incredible because we've got a large number of people that are literally disabled because of the vaccine. They need treatment and they're not getting it because we can't accept that it's the vaccine and then identify how we should be treating them. And there are treatments and there are protocols.

So it's crazy. And I didn't anticipate that God was going to step in and do all of this. Like I understood that this was important. And, you know, why I felt I had to be involved was, is I was hoping it would be literally a light on the hill because there's so much deception. There's so much that people didn't know. and this would be a safe forum for getting the truth out.

So I was literally hoping it would be in light on the hill, shining truth around. But I had no idea that God was wanting to use this to share a very simple message with people. And these are people in the freedom group. So we were doing this for the people that are not in the echo chamber, for those people that didn't know what was going on. But for the people that did know what was going on, we were fragmented.

And we were afraid. Like, remember, we started this in February. You know, we were still experiencing our first year without a lockdown. Thank you to the truckers. I mean, the last two winters, we were locked down. The cat lock us down in the summer in the northern hemisphere. We would rebel. But so we were just, you know, we were, we were,

still in the middle of winter. Our first free winter for two years, we're having witnesses drop out because they're afraid of repercussions both workwise and social and the like. And we were being told that we don't have to be afraid anymore. That we actually, you know, fear is just something that happens. It's a chemical dump. But keep that link to your rational mind and understand you're not alone and you don't have to be afraid anymore and it's time to stand up as part of a group like it's interesting Sean you will have been in this fight for a long time and when I say fight just it's an information war and you're doing podcasts with guests that the mainstream media are not caring giving a different perspective and a different example

and you know some people that have really suffered a lot over this and I've been been finding that, you know, the freedom groups and people that have been involved from the beginning, a lot of them are really tired. And they're feeling frustrated. I mean, how many marches and rallies can you go to and you don't really see a lot of change? And I think people don't understand what at what point of this war we're at. Because it is a war. It's an information war. I think it's more dangerous, a more dangerous type of a war than, you know, the bullets and bombs war. But in the bullets and bombs war, you know you're at war.

You know you're, you know, when you're in danger, so to speak. And this one has been a little different. But every war when you're surprised, the other side just gets mowed over for years, like usually about two years before you can, you know, start pushing back. I like to use the Korean War as an example because literally their backs were to the ocean. And then they stem the tide and started to push back. And that's where we are. We're at that stage where I think the freedom movement is going to be joined by a whole bunch of other Canadians

that are now just realizing they can't sit still any longer and they're no longer afraid to step up and step in. So, you know, this, what you're doing is is so important right now. you know, we've kind of, we've kind of kept people together, the freedom movements. And we've getting frustrated and we're getting tired. But oh my gosh, now is the time for us to double down and get involved. So but national, you asked me up in the National Citizen's Inquiry. That's what I, that's where I saw God moving for the first time on this issue in, in a way I didn't expect. It was just completely unsurprising.

Even that I could say God on your podcast or at the National Citizens Inquiry is unusual. Well, let's talk about that for a second because I tell you what this podcast now in the last, I don't know, month folks, two months, whatever. The audience knows what I'm talking about. God has come up an awful lot. I'm kind of curious to when I finally get a text saying, can we get back to something that isn't God for a couple? You know, I'm teasing a little bit, but certainly I remember a year ago, folks, and this is for Sean as well. It's probably a month, but it's a little over a year ago. It was last summer.

I asked Drew Weatherhead if he believed in God or not, and Drew Weatherhead has a podcast called the Social Disorder. And he was kind of like, ah, and it was like this awkward conversation. And it was just really bothering me after, or I shouldn't say bother. I was really chewing on it, I would say, after Freedom Convoy, because I went to Ottawa, experienced some things. saw some things, been dealing with some things, there's just a lot going on. So I was just like, why aren't we allowed to talk about God? Just, why aren't we?

You know, we weren't allowed to talk about COVID, and everybody finally got over that hump, and I mean, they're going to ostracize you, whatever. It's like, I'm tired of feeling like I'm crazy. Let's talk about it. And the God thing, Sean, you're not wrong. In that in the last three months, maybe less, you're starting, it's really starting to just like ramp up real hard.

and I think the best possible way I don't mean in a bad way in that like even I just saw Joe Rogan with Oliver Anthony I haven't finished you know I haven't even got into it yet so that's my plan for the weekend but in clips leading up to it he's talking about Jesus Christ

and I'm like that is an interesting thing to come out of Joe Rogan's mouth right like for him to say that I've listened a lot of Joe Rogan and it's only in the last month I've heard him mention that multiple times in talking to different guests and different things like that and it's just becoming more prevalent.

So when you say you saw God moving, my first question was going to be like, well, how? But then my next one is laughing at you because I'm like, yeah, I agree. Like on this podcast, we wouldn't have said anything about that a year ago. But in the last like six months, it's maybe less.

It's been a little bit on steroids because it's just, I'm seeing it everywhere. And I'm seeing a lot of people wrestling with it, which is interesting and needs to be talked about. Yeah. So can I share what happened? Sure. Because, first of all, I wasn't planning on being in front of the camera at all.

So, you know, the plan was for us to just have, you know, volunteer lawyers in, you know, each city handle all of the witnesses. And one of the tasks I had was to arrange for those, you know, lawyers, you know, first of all, to attend and prepare them. And here's how we're doing things and, you know, do this, this, this. and here are the considerations when you're interviewing the witnesses and all of that. Because there's a lot of work before you get a witness on the stand. And we would have, I'd have, you know, pretty decent lists of lawyers that had said, oh, no, no, I'm interested in helping with that when the time comes. And then as we got closer and closer, they would just start, you know, dropping off the list.

And, you know, and it, so it ended up with Toronto, was coming up first day of Toronto I didn't have a single lawyer and it's like oh I guess I'm I guess I'm going to Toronto and and leading witnesses and then day two I had one lawyer so it was going to be me and another lawyer and then day three I had two lawyers so we'd split that up by thirds on day three so flying out to Toronto and I know I've got an opening to do because you know whoever's handling that that day as the moderator which was going to be me was you do an opening so i'd thought about that one and if i recall correctly i spoke about how um the vaccinated and the unvaccinated had the exact same experience and i won't mind coming back to that a little later

because it it's an interesting point because we need to start coming together and understanding that you know we're all just acting based on what we believe but the experience was so similar and we were all terrorized regardless of which side of the COVID conversation you were on well I'm calling witnesses all day and I've got to give an opening the next day and I don't really have a lot of time to prepare and so now it's you know late at night and I just had this sense that I was supposed to let the Holy Spirit talk for the second opening and and I had this sense I was supposed to actually use a Bible parable and the one was, you know, about the master settling accounts with the servants. So, you know, and that's because it was actually going to be the best way of explaining forgiveness.

Because what was coming was is that we really had to come together as a nation. Like we're going to be facing some things going forward and we need to pull together to get through it. So I'm expecting there to be huge backlash, like both within the NCI and with the public. Because we all know that you don't mention God. Pre-COVID, you just don't do it. and or you're going to be labeled as a religious nut and people are going to turn off well there's no reaction and then i have two separate commissioners that they say you know really liked your first two openings looking forward to your third and um for every single opening

thereafter and i would have done um 19 more i just let the holy spirit go so And literally he wouldn't even give me an outline until just before I'd have to leave in the morning to go. So it's kind of like, no, no, kind of talk about this, this, this. So I'd like pencil out an outline. I will not have gone through any one of them, usually not even have time to like look at it and go through it in my mind before I gave it. And so I would be surprised at what I was saying. And that, because you asked, how do you know God's moving? Like sometimes when I'm lecturing now, it's kind of like,

because what you have to do is, is you have to give it over beforehand. It's like, no, no, it's your words, it's all of this. And sometimes I'm just absolutely amazed. So he was talking about stop being afraid. And you're not alone. And yeah, you're in a war, but it's okay. Actually, it's an opportunity for you to decide who you're going to be. and it's an opportunity to, you know, kind of get involved and make a difference.

You know, Sean, we pre-COVID, we were all just thinking, yeah, we'll get jobs and, you know, safer retirement and, you know, maybe get a cabin at the lake and, you know, just live our lives and then die, you know, hopefully peacefully with our kids and grandkids around us. but we still die. And is that a life where you really have any opportunity to choose between good and evil to actually have to make a sacrifice for things that are important? To actually even think about stuff that's important. So it's just people in history

that had to make a sacrifice, that had to stand up. Like, aren't we better off? Like, we're in a time where what we decide to do, every single one of us, what we decide to do actually makes a difference. You know, there could be, you know, a mother sitting at home who's frustrated

about tranny hour in their kids' kindergarten class. Well, you can make a difference. We didn't get there quickly. This all took time and planning for us to arrive here, but you can turn that around. And like for the first, first time in a long time we're in a situation where we can actually make the world a meaningfully different place than it is now and that's pretty neat when you think about it like so

instead of being afraid and instead of being frustrated the reality is is the world's always been there's been good and there's been evil and it's truly as a spiritual war and we just haven't seen it because it's been hidden but it's no longer hidden and that's why it's coming out like I I wasn't very serious about this before COVID because, you know, between you and me. And I, you know, I was going to church semi regularly. But I found a lot of things about the Bible inconvenient, right? Like, really? I've got to be obedient.

Like help me out here. But then COVID comes along. And I don't know how you thought about it. But, I mean, I viewed it as a huge. huge deception. And I viewed, I mean, the most charitable term I could use is that, you know, we were being totally reckless with this vaccine program and literally hurting people. Like, I mean, what I can't abide at all is is that we're vaccinating kids. Like in Canada today, how many kids do we vaccinate nationwide? Like nobody knows. But we're literally vaccinating kid

with the kids with the COVID-19 vaccine because we're still living this lie and we won't stand up and say no, this is madness, let's stop. So I'm viewing this as just so totally reckless. And the only way I can make heads and tails of it is is there's truly evil. And then now seeing that there's evil.

And once you start thinking that way, it's interesting. Like, I mean, we had the Commonwealth Games, not this summer, but the summer before. And like in the opening, like once you start realizing that it's a battle between good and evil and you start looking, they had at the Commonwealth Games opening, people dressed as slaves pulling out the big golden calf of bail. Let's not even talk about the Super Bowl halftime. Like it's everywhere. And how can how can our imagery be about a spiritual war always on this attempt? panic and demonic side in our public displays.

If there's not something going on. Like, who's making those decisions of all the things we can do for entertainment? Who's making those decisions? It's quite fascinating. You know, you have CERN open. You have a big tunnel open. Like, just look at the imagery. How do you explain that?

It's quite fascinating. And I don't know how you make heads or tails of it. But for me, I just really, realized, no, there's something really going on here. And if Satan's real, then Jesus is real. And then you've got to start making different choices. And then when you start seeing things, see God moving, it's kind of like, holy cow, this is good, right? So.

Well, the listeners certainly know, I've been listening to my journey with all of this, but to add to what Sean's asking me. before COVID I would say I was I was just you know everything you just said I was working my job living for the weekend um love my wife loved my kids but I don't know like I just don't know I don't know how better to explain it than living for the weekend I was not reading the Bible I was not going to church I thought religion pretty much had no place certainly didn't see any need to pick up the Bible. Grew up going to a church though as a kid and just, I don't know,

none of it stuck. I don't know why that is. You know, I don't know why that was my journey compared to others. It wasn't lack of my mother certainly trying to do it, right? Like I grew up in a healthy house

and everything else, we went to church all the time, just none of it stuck. The complete opposite happened, to be honest. I went for as far away as I possibly could from that bloody book. And in Ottawa,

it found me. And then you had to wrestle with it. it and I've been wrestling now for a year and change and so no I would say that if you looked at the halftime show if you looked at what was it the Oscars of the Grammys or whatever it was there and if you did you know before that I don't think I would have picked up on any of it I don't I don't know how better to explain how I just wasn't you know it's just a song it's just a it's just a story it's nothing else hidden there I don't you know and now um

where I'm at. Well, I mean, I was just joking with Chuck Prodick a couple episodes ago. Sometimes I don't know where this is, like where this thing's going. I didn't bring Sean Buckley on to talk about it. This thing has a life of its own. So Sean goes on. He says, I'm going to talk about this. I'm like, all right, because I know if I try and steer it away from it,

you're just going to keep bringing it back. And I'm like, okay, so I'll play ball. If this is what he wants, this is what it gets, right? So where I sit now, is pray daily, read the Bible daily. I can't sit here and preach to anyone. I think they've got to find it for themselves. That's been my journey that has been my journey on COVID.

I never got on here and said, don't get vaccinated. I just gave people information. And if it wasn't for the podcast and a few other factors, I probably would have been vaccinated easily. I don't think I was this special human being. I still don't think that. I think that I was put in a set of circumstances that I did not see coming.

And I think about that an awful lot because, you know, I talked to a lot of different people, Sean, that saw this a mile out or went, you know, like, and just were screaming at the top of the lungs from the start. That was not me. I argued in the book club that we have, I argued it couldn't be that bad. It couldn't be that bad.

It couldn't be that bad. It can't be that bad. It still can't be that bad. And now here I sit. You know, we just had a conversation this morning. We met this morning. And I was, you know, I used to think of the Matrix as like this, Like the movie makes it, like this world that you're in and it's an allegation.

And now I'm just like, no, it's just like the structure of the world. And you can just see it for what it is. And that's what we're staring at. We're staring at the Matrix. And we're going like, man, I wish everybody would get unplugged because that that's a terrible way to go through life. Like having to, but I've been unplugged now for, you know, I've been full-time podcasting since April 2020. So that's a year and change. And one of the things that I struggle with in this room is I get to talk to people such as yourself.

And people get to listen to me, but I literally get to talk to people all the time. And I sometimes I'm almost so unplugged from The Matrix, if you would, that I kind of forget how bad it still truly is. And one of the things that I had a hard time with the National Citizens Inquiry, it was really well done. I don't mean to put it that way, but it was really tough to watch because it was like it brought it all back. And I'm like, I'm so done with this. I've literally interviewed all these,

not all the people, Sean, but you kind of get the point. It was tough to watch for me because it like spurred up anger and frustration and emotions that I was like, I wanted to say I dealt with, but maybe I hadn't, you know, because when people say, oh, just move on, it's not a big deal. COVID's over and everything else. I'm like, well, you go try and tell that to Sheila andette Lewis, who's no longer with us, you know,

and others who are still battling and dealing and on and on. So that's my journey to this point. Yeah, no, it's it's truly fascinating. And I don't think, I don't think we, we can go on. Like I think everyone had this sentiment because this, this was traumatic. Like any way you slice it, this, this was a traumatic event. And let me share with you kind of how I explain that on, you know, the opening on day one. because I think we those the people that didn't get vaccinated and you know experienced literally I mean fear I was on a call a round table yesterday with four police officers who had testified at the national citizens firing I think it was Danny bullford was saying you know like we weren't sure if like if the police were going to be going door to door and dragging people out and

and jabbing them involuntarily i mean racial notley literally ran on that that they were going to increase the covid budget and go door to door seeking why you didn't get vaccinated that was i mean he's not wrong yeah so so i mean just this this crazy fear and you know we can forget or or just not even forget like not not even know just the trauma from the other side because when you're when you're traumatized yourself and i'll say this to the other side too because it doesn't matter whether you're vaxed or unvaxxed like that that is now meaningless to us what is meaningful is is is understanding we have to get rid of the divisions between us but let's just appreciate how similar the experience was so let's just talk about the vaxed and and i and i'm just

going to, you know, generalize here. But I appreciate that there's different degrees. But the vaccinated people believed that there was a deadly virus going around that literally posed a threat to them and to their family. Like if they had kids to their kids. I mean, and that is scary. Like, they believed they were literally facing. a life and death situation.

And then, thank goodness, but there's this solution. There's this way out. And it's the vaccine. Like, we can all be safe. But there's these anti-vaxxers. Like, if only everyone would take it, we'd be okay.

And so for them, the people, that would not get vaccinated were actually a threat to both them and their family. That's the belief. And when somebody is posing a threat to you and your family, you get angry. And then you get hateful. And now you're divided. Now let's go to the other side. Let's go to the the unvaxed. The unvaxed believed that that vaccine posed a threat to their very lives and to the lives of their family. And if they had kids, that would be their kids. And normally, this wouldn't be a problem at all. Because you don't have to, we're in Canada. You can choose

not to take a treatment, no problem, except those vaccinated. people are putting such pressure on us. Because government pressure doesn't happen without all this participation. And it's the vaccinated business owners that are requiring passports and disowning family members and social shaming. These vaccinated people are putting such pressure that we're going to have to get vaccinated. I mean, can you send your kids to school? Are they going to vaccinate your kids without telling you?

like this is becoming an existential threat to you and your family. If only they'd stop. And because you're threatened, there's hate. I mean, they're fearful that the army is going to go door to door, basically injecting a bio weapon into them and their kids. And that now there's hatred. There's fear. There's anger.

And now there's hatred. Now, do you see how similar the experience is? So how do you bring the, together to share that without with actually hearing the other side, Sean? Well, I think it's just a matter of us understanding. You know, we are the same. Like, so if you believe there's a dead, dead relief virus and an effective vaccine, we're all going to act in a similar way.

I mean, to various degrees, but pretty predictably. And conversely, if you actually believe, no, wait a second, this really is a dangerous proposition. We don't know if this is safe or effective at all. And oh, wait a second, there's a lot of evidence that this is deadly. We're all going to act in a similar way. Like, I think we have to understand we're not different. We just believe to different things. Like, that's the thing is all of these divisions that are being caused.

Like our whole society is being fragmented into different groups on different issues deliberately. You know, one of the roles of government. is actually to keep social cohesion so the nation's strong. You're actually supposed to celebrate your culture. You're supposed to celebrate your history. You're supposed to have, excuse me, a common experience you're proud of. It doesn't mean you can't examine things and, you know, but that's not what we're doing. We're step by step, step deconstructing our culture.

We're deconstructing all institutions and traditions. that would stand in the way of a radical remake of our society. That's what we're experiencing. And on this COVID thing, that was just a huge division. And we need to understand that we're all okay. We were all acting reasonably. So the vaccinated that threatened the unvaccinated, they were acting reasonably based on what they believed.

and the unvaccinated that the vaccinated thought were creating such this threat, they were acting perfectly reasonably for what they believe. Like we have to cut each other some slack. We're just human beings. I mean, I don't know about you, Sean, but I just find this whole experience terribly confusing and terribly challenging. And, you know, pre-COVID some days I didn't know which put to put the shoe on, so to speak. So the whole point is we're supposed to love each other like we would love ourselves.

I mean, that's what this whole thing is about. Do you mind if I get religious again and just? No, give her. Because when I talk about the National Citizens Inquiry, getting religious, I don't know if it was the last day in Ottawa or the second last day, but he actually spoke about judgment. And in a way, I had never appreciated. So, so like I heard it and I thought, holy cow, that's really beautiful.

Because one of the things he did throughout is, you know, it's really bringing us back to the Second Commandment, which really just is you're supposed to love your neighbor like yourself. And our whole legal tradition is based on that. So both our criminal law and our civil law is based. is based on, no, we're supposed to treat each other like ourselves. And a society that does that actually, has the most freedom.

So if we're all taught from when we're little to the day we die and we have self-reinforcing, you know, cultural norms and legal norms that directed to have us treat each other like we want to be treated, you end up with the freest societies. So, but kind of on that theme, And to just kind of reinforce, no, it's all about loving each other. He actually spoke about judgment. Now, when you hear the word judgment, you're thinking fire and brimstone and, you know,

you standing in the kind of the final court and this is all scary and you murdered and you, you know, lied and you commit. Well, but the Bible tells us exactly how we're going to be judged. and I had never thought of it as like just a beautiful illustration of how we're actually supposed to love each other. So it tells us that at the end, we're all going to be standing in front of Jesus, and we're going to be separated in the sheep and the goats. And the sheep are the ones that are going to heaven, and the goats are the ones that are going to hell. And Jesus is going to turn to the sheep, and he's going to say to them,

You know, when I was hungry, you fed me. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I was naked, you clothed me. When I was a stranger in your town, you took me in. When I was sick, you took care of me. When I was in prison, you visited me. And the sheep are going to say to Jesus, what are you talking about?

You weren't around. We never saw you. We didn't do that to you. We couldn't even do it to you because you weren't here. And he's going to say, no, no, no. When you did it to the least of these, like meaning both the sheep and the goats. So basically everyone, when you did it to your brother, you did it to me. And then he's going to turn to the goats.

And he's going to say, you know, when I was hungry, I was hungry. I was hungry and you didn't feed me. I was thirsty and you didn't give me clean water. I was naked. The wind was blowing. I was naked. I was on that street sitting down, freezing and you didn't give me your coat. I was sick.

I was suffering and you didn't care for me. And I was in prison. You never visited me. I was at the bottom. and the goats are going to say to him, Lord, you were never here. We never didn't do those things for you. And he's just going to point all the sheep and the goats.

And he say, yeah, but when you didn't do it for the least of these, you didn't do it for me. Isn't that beautiful? It's all about loving each other. The message is we have to take care of each other. It's so simple. He's not telling us, oh, you murdered, you cheated, you committed. No, no, no.

What matters is that we love each other. And when you think of it that way, it's like I'd never actually thought of it as a beautiful thing. And the whole reason that story is shared with us is just to drive home what's truly important. What is truly important here is how we. treat each other and between the vaxed and the unvaxed we have a lot of hatred and anger and bad feelings towards each other and that has to stop it has to stop and it has to stop now it's an interesting um it's interesting because uh i was just saying this morning i feel hatred to a few different people who've in my mind they've done things to me

But when I was talking about it, I'm like, well, actually, when I think on it, like deeply on it, you know, I don't know if they've done anything. I might have concocted the whole thing. Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of time for, you know, what the government has done. And honestly, Sean, I give late and gray a rough time on lawyers because I reached out to lawyers in the middle of this sucker and none of them would help me. Saying that, there were some beautiful ones here and I shouldn't lump them all together. You know, one of them passed, Carol Cross, and I remember her being on and see. saying, you know, something, she was a constitutional lawyer.

And I can't remember what I said, you know, back then I was so just green behind the ears, you know, like just, I was saying something like, you know, like, does the government break the rules all the time? And she's like, well, I'm a constitutional lawyer. If the government didn't, you know, break its own rules, I'd have no, you know, no occupation. I was like, oh, yeah, right. Okay, that is fair. And, you know, she's passed since then.

And I remember James Kitchen coming down to one of the early days for the kids' sake, which is a group here in Lloyd Minster, one of our early, speakers and and it was interesting. So there are lawyers that have certainly stood up and early. But as people, both sides of it, like all sides of it, you know, there are some things that have been done and I'm in media now and I look at media as a giant culprit of forming opinions for people and it fermenting hate towards. the other side of the population, right? Like really coming.

And so what you're talking about is, is if a difficult thing, because you have to go deep inside yourself to come to terms with some things, you know? Like, people were scared, and when people are scared, they do silly things. Like, they just, they do. And what you're pointing out is

if you believe there's a threat to you and yours, especially, you know, if you're a father sitting there and listen to this, or her mother, and you have young kids, what are you going to do? You're going to try and protect them. And it's like, yeah, that's fair. I wish, I felt like in the beginning I was pretty open to both sides.

I thought I really did a decent job of trying to listen to both sides. And I felt like a lot of people didn't do that for a very long time. Like they worried, you know, if I keep going down this road, the fear of their job, of their institution, of their whatever social means really got in the way of their thinking, and that clouded a lot of people's judgment. But once again, if you put that to a word, that's fear all over again. And so I can understand, you know, we're seeing it play out again with the LGBT2SL plus thoughts on kids, you know, and there's a lot of parents that are upset with it, but don't want to talk about.

it because you know of reprisal of what happens if if you start talking about it but I see more and more people starting to lend their voice to these concerns because I think they you know whether it's that or the fear-mongering of climate change or you know all these different issues it all gets firm and you know it all gets pushed forward by media and after you've lived it for two years a lot more people are becoming a little more on the wise of maybe there's something going on. Well, I think I think that that is what is happening and it it's interesting as you know, as you were talking. I've come to realize, you know, like so they, you know, the people in the

in the vaccinated camp, like sometimes we don't appreciate how much they have suffered in ways that we don't even think. Like I, you know, I've already spoken earlier about, you know, how those that are injured. And I mean, we're talking some of them really severely injured and disabled from the vaccine. And now they're suffering. So they're suffering physically and mentally. But then they're also literally being treated like lepers and, you know, being told you have anxiety and all of this. So the system's turning their back on them because the rest of us aren't brave enough to stand up or responsible enough to stand up and say, the emperor has no close. We're not pretending anymore. End this. End it now.

Let's start treating these people. But we had done the NCI, we had a Twitter space, and I think this is about two months ago. And one of the persons on the Twitter space was Scarlett Martin, who is a paramedic. She testified at the NCI. And she had lost her job because of the vaccine mandate. But the district, health district that she's in now is allowing people that are unvaccinated to work again. So she's gone back to work as a paramedic. And she was saying that at the hospitals, the nursing staff now have a term called needle rape.

So these are nurses who took the vaccine because of the mandates, but now understand that there could be health consequences to them. And what Scarlett was explaining is, is what they've said to her is, you know, if I, if I got sex, actually raped. We're going to do, you know, a rape kid and tests. And I will know quickly if I've been injured from the rape. But with this needle rape, I just don't know. Like, so there's this stress and this fear because they know that there's kind of this Russian roulette thing happening. And could you imagine living with that fear over your head? Yeah, like you, you know, you think you and I had stress. Like, Could you imagine, am I waking up tomorrow? Am I going to get turbo cancer? Like, what's the repercussions of what happened? And even though I did it, I did feel coerced. Like people that didn't take it felt coerced, like pressure to take it.

But a lot of people that took it felt coerced. And hence the term needle rape. So it's quite spectacular. We probably should segue into the natural health product stuff, because I also want to talk about that. And I don't want to take a backseat to what God's doing, but I actually think God's using this natural health product thing and that it's truly an opportunity for us.

And so if I can just explain that, and then I'll make it a God issue too. No, but it's just the way he's moving. I'm just chuckling, Sean, because everybody thinks I have this grand plan, right? I'm sure listeners are sitting there going, and Sean's got these like type, or maybe in, they've learned by now. I do have notes typed up, right?

But overall, I'm just along for the ride as much as any person. And I'm chuckling because I'm, for the most part, I would argue. You know, it's funny, the James Coates, the pastor before you came on, I said the word mass, you know, when you lead mass or something like that. I can't remember. And he's Baptist, I think. so uh and he goes i don't need mass and i go oh and then we end up go i think we're going this way to talk about something and i mean when we take a hard 180 and now we're going to talk about the

catholic church for the next half an hour and i'm like see everybody my best laid plan and and it's just anyways so sure so i shouldn't so i should still keep reading the teleprompter i'm just saying that i think you know what did you say your words were you know i'm going to stop letting God lead this. I think that's what you just said, right? Well, no, no, I didn't. I just think I thought you should segue in, but then I realized that this is, this is all, this is all part. Like there's a I'm just laughing because you think you have, like, I just go, you know, if, if I wanted to try and control it, I could try. It ain't going to work. It doesn't work on this side. So, yes, let's talk about natural health products. I would, I'm, I'm interested because I'm sure I heard you say at the

start, your career has been built around the natural health products kind of area. So can I share with you how I came in full? Listen, this is what I brought you on for. They asked me, do you want to talk about national citizens in Korea? I'm like, no, actually, I've been really getting this natural health product thing. And then here we sit, you know, we're 40, 50 minutes in. And I'm like, we haven't even talked about it yet. So you're why, you know, this is a fun story.

And be it illustrates the importance of allowing people to choose how they're going to treat themselves. So because what's happened in Canada is this is our our drug laws to say they're paternalistic is does no justice. I mean it's total it's total control. So under a Food and Drug Act any treatment is illegal. So anything for therapeutic purpose. I'm just going to take a sip of water but Sean you're looking really dehydrated. Do you have any water there? Oh, I just broke the law. I just made water therapeutic. And I don't have a license.

I don't have permission from Health Canada to be selling water. So anything, even water is illegal. You and I cannot sell water to treat dehydration under our drug laws unless we get permission from Health Canada. So we would actually have to prove to Health Canada that water's safe. and actually overcome the fact, like bottled water kills a number of Canadians each year. Did you know that? They're long-distance runners that they're under extreme stress and they drink too much water while they're running. Their electrolyte balance goes out and they die.

Every year we lose some. Do you know we've probably got 70,000 natural health products on the market? We don't lose a single person a year to that. So bottled water is more dangerous than the entire natural health product community. I don't even want to talk about peanut butter. I just don't want to alarm your... Oh, no, no, no. You can't say that because I love peanut butter.

So shatter my world, please. What is it about peanut butter? What is it about... Buckley, don't throw me a cliffhanger and not tell me what it is I need to know about peanut butter. Well, the point I'm trying to make, though, is a number of Canadians each year die because of peanut butter. They have an allergic reaction, and some of them are the most vulnerable, our children. And so every year we can actually catalog a, you know, a reasonably high number of deaths and that we can track down caused by peanut butter.

And you have to understand there'll be even a larger number that don't make it into the statistics. But on a yearly basis, we cannot point to it. I'm not aware of a single death in Canadian history caused by natural health product, you know, despite the media hype and Health Canada's attempts to show that they're dangerous. It doesn't mean that there aren't. I'm just drawing a safety parallel. But let me tell you the story of how I got involved in this. So long ago in Camelope's BC, there was a herbless name Jim Strauss who was suing Health Canada.

Because this herbalist was importing herbs from the United States that were perfectly legal for anyone to import. And Health Canada seized them at the border. Now, when the government takes property from a citizen, There's a specialized legal term for that. It's called theft. And now, so he's suing to get his herbs back. And the firm I met gets hired by Health Canada to act for Health Canada, and I get the file. So I go to court actually acting for Health Canada against the herbalist.

And Health Canada long ago waives Celestri client privilege, so I'm free to talk about this. Health Canada explained to me that, and there. The term they used was Roe Curblis. This guy's a Roe Curblis. He is selling unapproved treatments. And their big concern was, they had concern about a lot of his treatments, but their big concern was, is he had heart drops and he was claiming to treat heart, cure heart disease, not just treat it.

He was claiming to cure heart disease. And they're saying, isn't this dangerous? Because this Roe Curblist selling this unapproved treatment could cause a lot of harm. You know, people could delay getting the problem. proper treatments they could even die like oh my gosh and I drank the Kool-Aid so I go to court and I have this thing dismissed I'm actually you know quite pleased with myself I'm not pleased today because I didn't understand so just before you move on were you did I hear you were

representing him or you were against him oh I was representing health Canada and so you walked in for health Canada got it dismissed Padger's yourself on the back and call the other day. Yeah, except that he took me for lunch afterwards. He and I got along quite well. Interesting. He took you for lunch after you got his case dismissed. Yeah, that tells you a little bit about his character, right?

It does. Yeah. So then I start my own firm and then another attempt to shut the time. Nope, we're going to hold there for a second, Sean, because I want to know what the heck he said to you when he took you for lunch. Well, you know, I don't even recall now, Sean. Like it's just, even though I'm having this thing thrown out, you treat people well, right? So, I mean, we were just arguing the legal point.

So like I say, he and I got along fine. And I don't remember what we talked about for lunch. I mean, for all I know, I was explaining to him what his problem was, why he got the thing dismissed in court. I don't remember that conversation now. But what happened is, as I started my own firm, and then in another attempt to shut him down, he gets charged by the province, this is in BC, for practicing medicine without a license. And the law that governed at the time that gave the medical doctors their medical monopoly to practice medicine, defined medicine so broadly that it included making treatment claims.

So only doctors can practice medicine. Practice of medicine includes making treatment claims, and he's making treatment claims. He's claiming that he can cure heart disease. So on the facts were dead in the water. Like he literally drove around in a white van covered in red letters saying we cure heart disease. Like he could not, he could not be quiet about this. And do you want to know why? So he was an older gentleman.

He was just to date him. He flew for the German Air Force in World War II. He was from Austria. His family had been traditional healers. for four centuries. And he was trained by his grandparents to be a traditional healer. Like literally, you know, every day out into the forest picking herbs and all of this, he was trained. But he didn't want to do that.

So he got a PhD in electrical engineering. He's working for BC Hydro. He's living the life. He has a heart attack. He's taken by ambulance to the hospital. He's given an angiogram. He's got one artery, 100% percent. blocked another 80% block they say jim you need a double bypass surgery to survive and he he didn't

like that idea so he checks himself out of the hospital he makes his heart drops he cures his heart disease he lived at least another 30 years never had a bypass surgery died in an old folks home and then he thought i better go in the family business this is just too important like so it transformed him so he's now selling this stuff so on the facts, I'm dead in the water. So I decided, well, I'm a constitutional lawyer. I'm going to challenge the law. So I let the crown know I would be asking.

What year is this, Sean? Sorry, to interrupt. This is probably 1995, 1996. Okay. So I let the crown know I was going to be asking the court to strike down the law as violating freedom of expression. Because we've got freedom of expression and we've got a law saying only doctors can make treatment claims. And the law is on my side. But I'm worried about a narrative.

And what I'm worried about is if the judge accepts Health Canada's narrative, that here we've got a rogue herb list, you know, basically peddling snake oil for a serious health condition. And so, you know, vulnerable Canadians are being deceived into delaying treatment. They could be suffering and literally die. If a judge buys that narrative, even though the law is on my side, the judges, it's just common sense. You're going to do everything you can not to side with the defense on this one because you're worried it actually might lead to harm. So I've got to undo this narrative.

So I go to a herb shop and I explain the problem and I say, is there any way you can show you're telling the truth? Like I know you'll take the stand to tell your story, but it'll seem self-serving because you're the defense. And so he goes into the back and he brings me out boxes. It was either three or five. It was an odd number, I don't recall now. And these boxes were filled with letters. We're literally talking about thousands and thousands of letters that people just wrote to him to say, I had heart disease, I took your heart drops, I got well, thank you.

Pure heresy, I can't enter. a single letter, but I can call the authors of the letter. So I started phoning these people. Because they can take the stance, swear to tell the truth, tell the truth, and that's the highest level of evidence. Sean, on the day of trial, I had five middle class professionals. And I chose middle class professionals because the judge would be a middle class professional.

That's their people for credibility, right? They had all had heart disease. They had all had at least one open heart bypass surgery. one or two of them had two. They all continue to have heart disease because the reasons their arteries were plugging up was not being addressed. They all needed another bypass surgery to survive.

Two of them were too weak to go through the surgery again. So they were just sent home to die. Ethically, you can't do a surgery that's going to kill somebody. The other three weren't willing to go through that surgery just to buy another year or two. So for these five witnesses, is the medical system was a dead end. They all come across the heart drops. They all get well.

They're all working full time at trial. They had been disabled for years and years and years, and they're all working full time at trial. And that's when I came to realize, wait a second, the danger wasn't this rogue herbalist selling an unapproved treatment. And I'll just have to say, there were no approved health products at the time. Until 2004, there were no regulations under which you could get approval. And even then, it took about 12 years for most of the products to come into compliance. So for your viewers, for almost all of their lives, any health product, they'd go into a health food store or access through a naturopathic doctor.

That was unapproved. Like, who cares? And they're not approved in the United States. They're classed as foods. you don't need government permission to sell them. They weren't dangerous before and they're not dangerous now. But the point I'm trying to make is the danger, the actual danger I realized was,

is not allowing Canadians to be able to access treatments like these heart drops. And I could have given you the names, addresses, and phone numbers of thousands of Canadians who are only alive because of that single treatment. So remember I was talking about how, you know, your heart drops, press to point to a single death caused by a natural product. But I can give you example after example after example where people are only alive because of natural products. So what's happening?

So as I've already indicated, I mean, these products were unregulated for the longest time. So in 1995, just to summarize this, you go to court, and I want to be crystal clear on this, At one point, you're advocating on the behalf of Health Canada, and you get things struck down. Then you go, hmm, something's wrong here. You flip sides. No, I didn't flip sides. He hired me. I started my own firm, and he hired me. Sure.

And I take his case. But now you're taking the opposite side. I don't mean to make it sound crude, but I mean, you literally said this is wrong. And then now you've taken his case. And now we're walking into court for the good guy. Well, no, it's not that simple. So he's suing Health Canada. And when you're a lawyer, you have an obligation to, you know, there's whole rules. You've got to be fair and you've got to uphold the law and stuff like that. He's suing health Canada civilly and I take the file and I look at it.

And he's suing in the wrong court. Like the court can't grant what he wants. He's in a provincial court suing the federal government and he needs to be in a superior court or a federal court. I mean, it was as simple as that. Like so so all I did was as have his case dismissed because he's in the wrong court. Hmm. I got it. When he's charged criminally, now my obligation is to defend him within the bounds of the law.

And, you know, on the facts, I'm dead in the water. So I'm, I'm, our supreme law is our constitution, which includes our charter rights and freedoms. You know, I'm a passionate believer in the right to freedom of. expression and we've got a law of restricting freedom of expression so I mean it's a different thing it's not like I'm arguing although the products are unsafe one no but that that makes that makes yeah I appreciate the clarification because I was just kind of curious how you went and now I understand why he took you for lunch after or why you guys went in my mind because I'm like that's interesting

you go argue against him and he takes you from lunch but you pointed out a very nice little clarification to him like you're in the wrong course and he's just like crap, right? I can... Oh, yeah, no, no. I mean, just because you're in an adversarial process doesn't mean you can't treat people. But I think it's...

There's an obligation to do that. Sean, I agree 100% with you. But if you took it today's world, how many people would take their adversary out for lunch after? Oh, I know. Like I say, it really speaks to his character. That's a unique story. And unique stories are unique for a reason,

because most people wouldn't do that. Most people would get very upset. And we go back to the proper paperwork, but they'd be like the freaking Sean Buckley. I'm, you know, I can just, anyways, you fast forward, now you have all these fine folks come out saying all these crazy stories about like, listen, I was at the worst, started doing this, it worked, boom. What happens in court? Well, actually, the crown drops the charges before the trial finishes because they knew they were going to lose. Okay. Okay. So you're beating the drum of we just got a big win then?

Well, whenever, so in the criminal law world, if a client's charged and they're not convicted, you consider that a win. So we would have liked to have had the law struck down. So that would have been the total win. But yeah, no, I mean, he was happy and I was happy because, you know, they were trying to shut him down, right? So. Okay. Carry on with your story. I wanted to make sure I got my brain around that

because you said all these things and then you skipped ahead. I'm like, well, what happened in 1995? You're telling me this beautiful story about all these different people. You're going through rifling through three to five boxes of things with all these stories saying like this product really works and he comes from four centuries of healing products

and natural health. And then, well, an hour's sit where we sit. So fast forward me, wherever you want to from 95. The point I was making about that story was the products work. Like there are natural products that are lifesavers. I mean, you know,

we don't want this interview to go for two hours. Maybe we do. I mean, I could give you another example of, Sean, I got nowhere to be. So, I'm not going to cut you off here.

Okay, so just while we're, you know, while we're talking about that these are lifesavors. And then I'll segue into, you know, how our regulations are actually, have now prevented this innovation. So before we were regulated, and we became regulated in 2004,

there was a lot of innovation. So we had things like the Strosse heart drops being developed. And then we also, another product I want to talk about is EM Power Plus. And it's an interesting story because it is a vitamin and mineral supplement to treat bipolar disorder. And it's so effective. It's crazy. Do you know the company has never paid for any research,

but there are 35 peer-reviewed research publications on the product all funded by government. The Alberta government coughed up, you know, this would be like 20 years ago, like half a million dollars to run a double blind clinical trial at Children's Hospital and Calgary. Like governments stump up significant amounts of money to research this product. And the journal publications are in blue chip journals like journal psychiatry, Journal of Child and Adolescent Psychopharmacology, because it's just so transformative. But because it works to treat bipolar disorder,

like it would work on about eight out of ten people and major depressive disorder. And it works fantastic for anxiety too according to the research. What product is this? And Torrey, what product is this? It's just called Empower Plus. Empower Plus. Yeah, it's a vitamin mental supplement. It's in a lot of health food stores as a vitamin.

Like, if you go out bipolar disorder, don't just start treating yourself with it. Like, there's professionals that manage you, especially if you're on psychiatric drugs, you have to be weaned off them. But that company is an expert in it. That company is the world expert in weaning people off of psychiatric drugs. In fact, you know, the conventional wisdom used to be you couldn't ever get off, affects her. And they figured out how to do it. And they're the ones that people call when there's problems on weaning people off psychiatric drugs.

But it's just they found themselves managing. So how the product came about was is the two founders of the company, one was a property manager and the other was an animal nutritionist. And the property manager's wife had severe bipolar. polar disorder and like her father and grandfather committed suicide. And one of his adult daughters, Autumn, she was living in Edmonton, married. And she was one of these people that would be spent half of her life involuntarily committed to the psych wards.

So you know, you become manic and you're depressive, you're suicidal, you get involuntarily committed. And then they put you on drug cocktail that so dopes you up that literally you're a zombie for a couple of months. you can't be released from the hospital until you know you're only drooling over yourself 12 hours a day and then you're sent home on 24-hour suicide watch and as the months go by your body gets more and more accustomed to the drug and then when you're totally accustomed you're manic and then depressive and suicidal and get recommitted and then they put you on another drug cocktail you're not used to and then you're doped up and rinse and repeat and the lifespan for people once they reach that point you're

lucky for it to be five years so like they're they're on their way out that's where autumn is and joseph one of his sons still at home he's 17 big kid like 200 pounds not an ounce of fat on him and his doctor's managing his bipolar with lithium but he's just raging and paranoid about the rcmp and natives and he's scary and the other kids go to their dad tony and say like dad you got to get joe you got to get joseph out of the house meaning institutionalize them because like we're afraid and they and they had reason to be afraid. And he's like broken. Like he's seen this disease

destroy his family. And he's on a property board of this church and this animal nutritionist is and they're inspecting some church property for some problem. And the animal nutritionist asks, well, how are you doing? And he's like

Tony decides, well, I'm going to tell you the truth. And he's just unloading all this information. And when he's talking about Joseph raging, The animal nutritionist says, you know, I don't know anything about human nutrition. But this raging you're describing in Joseph, it reminds me of ear and tail biting disorder and pigs where they literally will rip each other apart. And we know when that happens that it's in nutritional deficiency.

So we supplement the feed with vitamins and minerals and 100% of the time we extinguish the behavior. And the idea occurs to these two guys. I wonder if there's a nutritional basis to mental illness. So they just start researching. They're just reading journal publication after journal publication. This takes months and months and months. And they come up with a list of vitamins and minerals that they think you need to have good mental health. And then they go out and just start looking at products that are for sale.

And they come up with three of them that if you put them all together, you know, largely covers that list that they've compiled, you know, and what you need and how much you should need. And they give it to Joseph. And he doesn't get well. But he's different. So they add another one. They call it a colloidal mineral. It's just somewhere in the states there's all these buried forests and they dig it up and they squeeze it and they bottle the juice that comes out and they call it colloidal mineral.

Chaloidol just means, you know, the minerals bound to an organic molecule that your digestive tract can absorb. Well, now they've added that fourth product, and Joseph gets well. They take them off the lithium and he stays well. And then Autumn, who's in Edmonton, her husband calls Tony. And they lived down in Raymond or McGrath at the time, somewhere in southern Alberta and says, Dad, or Tony, can, Autumn's out of the hospital, but she's on. 24-hour suicide watch and when I go to work I've been dropping her off of my parents but everyone's just getting exhausted can we drop her off for a couple of weeks just to give everyone a break and tony's like yeah

and so they get her on this protocol and she gets well and and she stops her psychiatric meds and stays well now and here's where you know god was intervening you just can't stop psychiatric meds but she did and she was okay she's written a book on this called the promise of hope it was the new york times bestseller for years and this is like over a quarter century ago she's never been back in a psych board has been able to have a whole bunch of kids because on the psychiatric mix that she couldn't like it she's well she's normal so then they start a company just to do you know research into mental health but people are coming to them and they're managing them on this protocol and because that colloidal mineral varied so much from batch to batch they had they were forced to make a product

So Empower Plus was born. And then they ended up starting a company because they found they had to manage you. Because if you're on psychiatric meds, after you start the product, like you'll rapidly get well for a couple of weeks, and then your symptoms will start returning. And what's happening is the vitamins and minerals are actually amplifying the effects of the psychiatric drug. And now it's time to start weaning you off. and it's a bit of a dance.

So you have to have expertise. They wouldn't let just sell it to you. You had to have your doctor and psychiatrist on side and agree to be managed. But they're literally managing like thousands of people in Canada and people all around the world. And then Health Canada tells them to stop selling because they don't have approval.

It's an unapproved product. Let's ignore that every health product was unapproved in Canada. There were no regulations under which you could get approved. But they signal. you know, single this one out. And, and I have the letters. There were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of letters from doctors and psychiatrists and family members and patients saying, please don't take this product off the market. My life depends on it or my patient's life depends on it. Well, the company wouldn't take it off the market. It's manufactured in the

states and shipped into Canada, so Health Canada started seizing shipments and turning shipments away at the border and a lot of people died the Canadian Mental Health Association would hold a press conference every time one of their members died and eventually health Canada was shamed into allowing the product back onto the market and it's been on the market ever since and so the company was charged with selling without a license I was their counsel and and the court agreed you know you're guilty you sold without a license but we can't convict you there's a defense of necessity the court said it was legally necessary for you to defy health Canada and continue selling or there would have been more deaths. A court? A court.

A court, I don't know. I don't know if admitted that or ruled that or said that. I don't know the proper terminology, Sean, but that's what they said. It's not officially an acquittal. It's a legal exemption. So yes. They legally said, just so I heard that correct. you had legal means to break this law. You're justified, legally justified. Because if you didn't, other more people would die. Yeah. Now, the written decision doesn't say that, but the oral one did, and you can get the transcript.

So, yeah, so they were exempted on the law of necessity. Do you know, Sean, when I was preparing for trial, and I called some of these witnesses, before you call a witness and, you know, in a group, so I was calling, people that were on the product, the type of people that were involuntarily committed into psychboards and now had normal lives. You have a list of questions that you think, you know, is going to give you a feel for that witness and whether you want to call them. There was 100% of the people I called volunteered something. It would have never dawned on me to ask. A hundred percent of these witnesses, this is the group that were basically their lives were saved from this product.

100% of them explained to me voluntarily because I wasn't asking the question that you do know I had a suicide plan in place that if I was going to if I was going to run out of the product I was going to kill myself before I got sick so while I'm of sound mind I am going to kill myself before I get sick again because I'm not willing to go back to the way I was now can you imagine having been so. ill and then having found relief in an unapproved product that you would have a suicide plan in place to kill yourself before you get sick again because you're not willing to go through that living hell again. And so we're talking life and death. We are talking life and death. This idea that we have to have freedom to be able to access natural health products is a life and death thing. Now, for my 29 years of practice, it has been clear to me that Health Canada has wanted to remove natural health products from our market from that entire time. Now, they were unregulated. And the regulatory body, so what, I mean, what happened was, is these weren't threatening.

pharmaceutical profits in the 60s. In the 70s, you know, vitamins and, you know, some health food stuff started to become important. Really grew in the 80s. And then by the early 90s, my gosh, there's a health food store in every mall. Like this is challenging profits and the industry is growing and these blockbuster life-saving products like Stru's heart drops and Truipan Plus, they're on the market. or true opium paraplasia wasn't on the market yet it was just about there and and this is threatening profits now our drug laws our drug regulations were not drafted for natural products they were drafted for

novel chemicals that we were introducing into the human body for the first time so this presumption that they're all unsafe and that you have to prove they're safe and that you have to prove they're safe and that you have to prove they're effective before they're allowed on the market. For chemical drugs, that makes perfect sense. But for things that we eat every day and for things that we've been using as traditional remedies for like thousands of years or at least centuries and centuries, well, maybe we don't have to do that. We're already taking them.

Why do you have to interfere? But both the FDA and the states and Health Canada started applying the chemical drug laws, which you can't comply with if you're a natural product on natural. on natural products and companies were being driven out of business and products were being driven off the market and there were citizen rebellions in both the U.S. and Canada. Now in the U.S., the citizen rebellion was so large that Congress held hearings.

How should we regulate natural health products? And they concluded and passed a lock of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994. So in the United States, natural products are classed as foods. In the United States, by law, natural products, health products are deemed by law to be safe. So there's a legal presumption they're safe. And in the United States, by law, the FDA can only remove a single product from the market if there's evidence that the product actually poses a real risk.

In Canada, we have our citizens rebellion. House of Commons holds hearings because the citizen rebellion was so large. The Standing Committee of Health held what at the time, and may still be the case, were the broadest consultations in the history of any standing committee of Parliament. They came out with a whole bunch of recommendations. They were clear. It's inappropriate to treat these as drugs. It's inappropriate to treat them as dangerous chemicals.

And Canadians want a regulatory regime that increase. increases their access, don't decrease their access. So what happens? We do the opposite of what they did in the states. In the states, they class them as foods. We class them as drugs. In the states, there's a legal presumption they're safe. In Canada, there's a legal presumption they're unsafe

because that's the presumption with drugs. In the United States, you don't need any government approval to sell one. In Canada, you have to get the government's approval. We have to go through a licensing process because we're considered drugs. We have to prove it's safe. We have to prove it's effective. And what's happened is we've lost a lot of products. We have no innovation of life-saving products like we did before.

And our products have been dumped down to get licenses. We've had to drop ingredients and drop the level of ingredients. Like going buy vitamin C, vitamin D and follow the label instructions. You might as well not have bought it. You might as well not take it if you're going to follow the label instructions. It's meaningless because you're told only to take 1,000 IU. Like, why bother? So our industry has already been hurt, but we've moved halfway into the chemical model.

And I say halfway because we had a couple of key concessions. And the first one was, is we could use traditional use evidence to show that the natural product works. So, you know, like in some traditions, it goes back, we've got thousands of years of evidence of use, you know, that a product works. Like surely to goodness we don't have to run a double blind clinical trial to show that that ginger tea can ameliorate nausea. We've been doing that for thousands of years. We know this. And surely we don't have to run a clinical trial to show that ginger tea is safe.

Do we? Do we really? Well, I guess now that we do. So we had these natural health products come in in in 2004. We could use traditional use evidence. And we weren't, you know, there were relaxed standards. Like our regulations are not as strict as the chemical drug ones. And we weren't charged the fees.

So chemical drug company to manufacture, they have to pay a fee per building. To label, they have to pay a fee per building. When they submit their product license applications, they pay a fee. And in some cases, that fee is hundreds of thousands of dollars if it's a complicated new drug approval process. And in fact, most of Health Canada's budget comes from those fees. So we're in an awful model that's already caused problems for Canadians. And in my opinion, has caused a large number of deaths. And there's a large number of us suffering that don't need to be.

But we're tolerating it. But now health Canada's moving us into a full drug model. So they've come up with what's called the self-care framework. And what their idea is is, well, we're going to regulate natural health products in the exact same way that we regulate chemical over-the-counter products. So let's say you have a headache and you want a painkiller, and you walk into your drugstore or drugstore, and you see aspirin on the shelf in the painkiller shelf,

and right beside it is White Willow Bark. Well, aspirin is a chemical drug regulated under chemical drug regs, and White Willow Bark is a natural health product, regulated under natural health product regulations, and Health Canada says they should be regulated exactly the same way. Now, aspirin, which is just from White Willow Bark, but it's, so what Bear did was, White Willow Bark is a tremendously effective pain killer,

but it doesn't cause gastrointestinal bleeding. You won't be able to find a single death caused by natural, or by White Willow Bark ever in any country at any time. You can take all you want. even though it does act as a natural blood thinner, it's proven to be tremendously safe. But aspirin, they took one of the ingredients that acts as a painkiller in White Willow Bark, and they tweak the molecule to make it a novel chemical.

It still works as a painkiller, even though they've tweaked the molecule, but it causes gastrointestinal bleeding, which leads to a number of deaths and hospitalizations each year. So even though it doesn't work better than White Willow Bark, it's regulated differently because it's a different risk category and should be. But Health Canada's ideas is we should regulate these identically. And so they're going to actually relax the regulatory standard for the chemical drugs, and they're going to force the natural health community to comply.

Now, we're going to lose companies, and we're going to lose products. What they're also doing is they're saying we can no longer use traditional use evidence for efficacy claims. So are we going to lose half our products over that? Are we going to lose three quarters of our products? Are we going to lose more? Nobody knows, but it's going to be a bloodbath because that's been the one concession that's enabled us to live in the drug model.

They're going to impose the cost recovery fees, the fees they charge the chemical drug companies. So a company is going to be hit two ways financially. Now they're going to have fees they didn't have before and the regulatory burden is going to be so much higher. We're going to lose companies over that. We're going to lose products. And the prices are going to skyrocket.

They're going to use that money to hire inspectors to go out into the community and make sure that these new regulations are being adhered to and to censor truthful health information. Because Health Canada, when they issue a license, so let's use the Empower Plus as an example. The label claim is something like, supports mental health and well-being. So if Canada takes the position,

the only thing you can say about a product is the label claim. But True Hope has, there's 35 peer-reviewed journal publications all funded by government on the product. You would think that Canadians, there should be an obligation on the company to share all of that with Canadians so people can actually be informed and educated about the product and then make informed choices based on government, funded peer review research, but no, Help Canada takes the position it is illegal to share

truthful health information. Now, before True Hope didn't care, they ignored Health Canada because they were only facing a $5,000 fine for defiance. But as of June 22nd, as part of the self-care framework, the fines have been increased to match those of the chemical drug company so now true hope faces for sharing truthful health information instead of a five thousand dollar per offense fine a five million dollar per day of violation fine and the corporate veil is pierced any the company is liable but any director officer or employee who participates or who even acquiesces whatever that means so you know what true hope's taken down the links to those 35 peer-reviewed journal publications

because they can't withstand $5 million a day fine. So the censorship's already becoming more effective. And then the last nail in the coffin is is because this is truly meant just to be self-care. So you walk into the drugstore, you need a painkiller, for example, you pick either aspirin or white willabard. But you're not seeking the advice of anyone.

You're not going to a medical doctor. You're not going to a naturopath. You're not going to a herbalist. It's truly self-care. Health Canada has said, if it's for a condition for which you would seek the advice of a health care practitioner, you're not getting licensed under this scheme. The only other licensing scheme is the new drug approval process.

You can't get licensed under that scheme if you're a natural health product. So we're going to, in addition to losing products because we can't use traditional use evidence, and we can't afford to go into double-blind clinical trials or case series or the like. Well, even if we could, they're not going to license products for which you would seek the advice of health care practitioner. So what are our naturopathic doctors and our homeopathic doctors and our nutritionists and our herbless? What are they going to use to treat us when the products they use for conditions for which we seek their advice are no longer available. Like this is, this is the end game to move us into a full-bone

chemical drug model. Now, let's bring this back to God and tell you why this is such good news, Sean. So I've shared you, I've shared all these ways that Health Canada is going to take away products that save lives and it's good news, folks. And it's good news. Let me tell you, Mr. Buckley's going to blow our minds here. All right, give me the good news, because you're going to take me the good news, because you've just painted about as bleak a future as one can get.

Yeah, yeah, but the good news is, is over 70% of Canadians use these products, you know, to stay alive and demand it's, you know, really a quality of life. And they get mad whenever Health Canada threatens them. So the two largest, ignoring the trucker convoy, that is its own unique thing

and nothing compares with it. And I almost get choked up when I think about it because those truckers and all the people that participated, they're the only reason we weren't locked down last year. They can't even imagine how much hope they gave us and the effect that they've had and how many people have stood up before them. Like just we owe them.

I'm choked up. debt of gratitude that is they can't understand how much good they have done and how God's blessed what they've done and I know that that some of them are being persecuted. I consider them political prisoners and I know that and we're all ashamed at how they're being treated. But aside from the trucker convoy, the two largest citizen rebellions in my lifetime have been over access to natural health products and both times the government had to back down. So, So in 98 and the 2008, there were big moves to, you know, threaten our access, and both times the government backed down.

So we can get Canadians upset about this issue, those that use natural health products. Well, Sean, you might not know, but there's a whole bunch of freedom groups out there because of COVID. I'm being facetious, obviously, you know, who are mad, are mad about our loss of freedoms. They're not in the natural health fight, but there's a whole bunch of. they're looking for a target. And if there's any issue that we can use as a test case to see if we can get parliament responsive to the citizens again, this is it. So we've got the natural product community.

We've got the freedom groups and we can get them both upset and create a citizen movement to see if we can get parliament responsive. I'm going to tell you about some of the things we're planning. And I think you're going to get excited here. So and with the natural health product community, a lot of them aren't aware of wider issues. Like so for example, this is all just part of international harmonization of drug regulations.

I mean, you could trace it right back to the World Health Organization. And we want to use the citizen movement to also get Canada to withdraw from the WHO. So the big asks on the, the two asks on the campaign are really going to be, Let's create a regulatory environment that Canadians want where these products are privileged and promoted and we have increased access. You know, safety, let's have a reasonable regulatory environment that privileges what we want and we want to access these products. And let's withdraw from the who. This is just getting crazy.

We don't need this international harmonization putting pressure on organizations like Health Canada to restrict our access to natural products. And this treaty that we don't call a treaty is just crazy. I mean, this idea that if the World Health Organization declares a pandemic, that Canada could lose its right to choose how to manage that pandemic is quite crazy. Do you mean to tell me that Canada doesn't have, and bite your tongue here, Sean? This is just the public messaging that we would use to justify this campaign. Do you mean that Canada doesn't have the expertise to manage a, pandemic we're first world country we have the expertise and so for example the

world health organization declared monkeypox as a pandemic well we chose not to follow what the world health organization was suggesting but with COVID when they declared that a pandemic we chose to actually follow exactly what the world health organization was recommending but surely we have the expertise to determine when a pandemic is declared by the who you know how we're going to manage it. It doesn't mean we can't choose to follow what they're saying, but surely we should retain our sovereignty and use our own expertise. Like, how does the government resist that messaging? But that's the truth. We don't need to lose our sovereignty over this.

But so I'm part of an organization called the Natural Health Product Protection Association. It's the website is just nhppa.org. So just think natural health product, nhppa.org. And we're in the process of gearing up to launch a whole bunch of campaigns. But one of the things that we've come to understand we need to do and we're partnering with other freedom groups to do it is basically to replicate what Take Back Alberta has started to do in Alberta. And that is, so we're going to organize in all 338 federal ridings and empower people to join all three political parties, not just one,

like Take Back Alberta, but all three political parties with a view of getting ordinary citizens to get those parties working for the ordinary citizen again, which would include, you know, protecting our right to choose how we're going to treat ourselves and withdrawing from the who. And having the party responsive to people, whoa, what a novel idea. Maybe having your MP support what the people in their riding want instead of the party whip. because the problem and then because the federal writings are organized provincially but didn't you know shan behind closed doors they actually do argue for you you just can't see that because behind closed doors they're arguing for you and i put up a

good fight i swear yeah yeah i know and i i grieve every time i see my mp out you know and now i get to be a little bit because you know he wanted to vote the way we wanted him to but but he just couldn't so yeah so it and then also organized provincially we wouldn't want to replicate this in Alberta we just want to encourage take back Alberta to expand more to all federal parties but it's interesting they're already got the idea well we need to empower people even at you know the school board level take back the school boards you know if you don't like a tranny giving story hour in your kids kindergarten class then

let's empower you and other parents to get on the school board and change things. Because it's really simple, Sean, and we didn't see it. We all actually believe that we weren't personally responsible for the state of our country at all levels, including our professional organizations. We didn't understand that we were responsible. And we all felt, no, we could just focus on what we wanted. And yeah, we might have to endure a bad policy or a tax or something for a while. But, you know, that was just the cost of doing business.

But that was actually a deception because the truth is, is if we were going to love our neighbors like ourselves, we have to take personal responsibility for all of our institutions. So we have to get involved. And which is ordinary citizens getting involved, that's how we peacefully get our institutions working for us again. You know, I'm mindful of President Kennedy. Remember when he famously said something like, you know, don't have. ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. Well, you know, if you want your institution or your institutions to work for you, then you work for your institutions.

It's as simple as that. It's as simple as being there and participating and making sure that it's okay. And we can do this quickly. The one thing, you know, when you talk like that, I think of as if you're in a corporation or institution or whatever, if you just, you know, speak your mind a little bit of statesmanship to it. I'm not saying yell or scream or anything, but if you get involved and speak your mind, it might encourage others to. Because right now, so many of us think nobody else thinks like us. But the thing that you're pointing out even with health products is you're saying numbers like 70% of the population, a population uses it.

And it's like, yeah, that makes sense. And actually we're seeing with the kids and the, you know, the drag queen story hour, but here in Saskatchewan, you know, with the lumsden and having the sex cards and things like that, no parents going, no parents dying on that hill, I would say nine out of ten parents, don't die in the hill of saying, oh, yeah, the sex cards need to be in there. Most parents, when they hear what was in there, go, oh, what is that about, right? And the health products is probably very much in line with that in a different way, right? Like it doesn't honestly make a whole lot of sense other than I could see big farmer or the big companies pushing hard to get it out of there because they want their profits.

And I mean. Yeah, but the cool thing is, Sean, is it's really a small number of people that have messed this up. Like, we're the majority. And all that's happened is, is we have. forgotten that we need to be responsible. But it's a small number of people creating this mischief. They have an agenda and they're organized and they're deliberately placed where they're placed to create this mischief.

But we're the majority. We can take this back. Like it's not complicated. And it's easy. It's just really, you know, where's your area of interest? how do you get involved and start moving it back? It's that simple. And we just want to create the structures

and partner with whoever else is already doing that and whoever wants to draw alongside to just let people know it's that simple and empower them. And it's right down from the political parties, you know, to the school boards, to our professional organizations, everything.

Let's just get involved again. That's all it takes. You're bringing up, I'm trying to rack my brain on who said it, whether it was on the podcast or whether it was away from the podcast. It doesn't matter. They were talking about a puzzle. We all are a piece of it. And if you put together the puzzle, we all have a piece to play, right? And if you don't play your piece or you don't play your part, then everybody stares at the missing piece.

And what you're saying is, is like, we don't have to be everything. You don't have to run for city council and then be the mayor and be the MP and fix the health food products and everything else. It's like, Sean's tried, you know, to do too much. And I'm not saying getting involved. I just mean like when you spread yourself thin, you're no good to anyone. So what you're talking about is find out where you want to be, become that piece, put yourself in the game, get people to support, support others. And let's see if we can't piece this sucker back together. When I'm lecturing now, just because of the experience with the natural health or with the national citizens,

Citizens Inquiry where, you know, I really was supposed to just let the Holy Spirit speak. I don't prepare for the lectures anymore. I just show up and let him speak. And what he's been telling, what's been coming out, so he's been telling people is you're in a war. And it's time for you to stop being afraid. You might have a job because you've got to pay the bills and buy food, but you're a soldier. and we're in a spiritual information war, and you are a full-time soldier.

So you have no choice because you're being ordered to get involved at every level you can until we have our institutions back. So if you're organizing with other parents and concerned persons to make sure that people that want to protect our kids are on the school board, then that's what you're doing. But it doesn't mean you're not joining a provincial

party and going to the nomination process and and you know voting for who's on the policy boards and it doesn't mean you're not joining federal party like you're doing everything you can and you're also praying and asking what is my special role Sean it you know like one for example like because you don't know what's going to work and what ideas are going to come you know one of the most beautiful stories I have of just a creative idea that broke the ice is back in the 90s when Health Canada was attacking natural health products. There was a freedom group called Health Action Network Society in the Vancouver area that couldn't get mainstream media attention to this issue. So they came up with this brilliant idea, like, you know, like 18th century balls where the women had the dresses

with the big foof and the men on all these buttons. And so they dressed about 40 people. up in that costume dress and got tables and tea sets and did an outdoor tea party by the peace arch and they didn't tell anyone what they were doing when the media just went ballistic what the heck's going on like because i mean it was just this big fun spectacle and so they got media attention to the issue and then the media had to keep following up with it and i thought what a beautiful idea like you don't know what kind of ideas god's going to bring you and how you can participate, but you know you're in an information war,

and you know you're in a spiritual war, so you better plug yourself into a good church. And let's get this done. But what you're being called to participate, I'd like to encourage everyone to go to the nhppa.org site and subscribe so we can send you emails about what we're doing and all of that. Plug yourself into other freedom groups.

Like get plugged in so that when action needs to be taken, you know how well we put uh it's nh ppa dot ca a dot org dot org i'll put it in the show notes folks i'll even nh ppa dot org yeah and i you know just and i i i i'm happy to plug the nhppa because i'm you know i'm helping i'm heavily involved in it but also support us financially and support support Sean financially because you're doing this for full time right? Correct. Like I don't think people understand how much work Sean is doing to get guests like me on and put this on. And he's got to pay his bills.

And I've been guilty of this too. We just assume these people are still going to keep doing it and stuff like that. But we can't. And it's funny, I was on a TV show earlier today and afterwards like, you know, after this and Sean and I would debrief. Same type of thing. And it's kind of like this real frustration on like, why is it that all these freedom groups are struggling

because nobody's financing them? Why are these podcasters and broadcasters struggling? We're actually depending upon them for our very lives because how else are we going to get this information? So I got to urge you to support him. Like, you got to support people like Sean. You have to. But when you mention, I'll hop in there real quick, because I think podcasters and small independent

media is actually undervalue themselves right now. And one of the things that I was blessed with, unbeknownst to me at the time, was I did a career after I came out of hockey. And hockey, you're always talking to people and you're very, you know, you're part of a team is I went into sales. And so I had to deal with customers and et cetera, et cetera. So when it came to the podcast, I'm not saying I'm the God's gift to sales by any stretch, but I'm not afraid to go talk to people about what I do.

And I've slowly worked up to where, you know, I could do it financially full time. I remember, you know, I got the quote on the wall from Joe Rogan, and he was talking to Annie Jacobson, who wrote Operation Paperclip, the book on the Nazis, Nazi scientists. Anyways, the quote has nothing to do with that. It all has to do with, she was asking, you know, if people are stuck to. basically in a rut, you know, like how to, and Rogam was saying, you know, when you're in your 20s, that's when you got to go after it. So she's like, well, you're saying you can never

in your older ages. And he goes, no, you can, but you have to set aside money and you got to be focused on it, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I would actually challenge to the listeners, there's got to be some salesmen out there because whether it's me or whether it's a different podcaster, there's a ton of podcasters that don't have time or the skill set to go talk. to companies and say like listen this is why you should go with these people this is why you should keep supporting these because one of the things about as as times get more difficult financially and different things like that is the independent market of of podcasters media we have to be creative because we

can't just complain because nobody's supporting us we have to be active and going and finding different businesses different people different entrepreneurs to partner with us to help grow the industry, to get it bigger so that it's something that people are like, I'm willing to pay five bucks for this platform, right? Me and Wayne Peters have talked a lot about this, and Sean, you've met Wayne now. And I would challenge the listeners,

somewhere out there is, because in sales, you can do commission sales, which means they do this in hockey teams for advertising, they do this in a lot of different communities, where if you bring the Sean Newman podcast, let's just laid out for listeners, for my audience. If you bring the Sean Newman podcast a company,

you get, I don't know, I don't know what the number is. 10% is it 15%, you know, we could argue about that. And all of a sudden, by them bringing in money, they're earning money and helping themselves out and they're helping independent media out. And once again, you have to have that conversation with the host or the company, but I think there's a way to play a part where it isn't just like

it's money coming out of my bank account. I think there's really creative ways, Because like you're talking. The point of the point I'm making is people need to step up and start doing it, right? So. But some of those people need some direction, you know, just need a little bit of like, hey, you go that way. There's actually opportunity there. You're not only helping me, you're going to help yourself.

And it might turn into like, hey, can you imagine if there's a salesman out there right now, Sean? It's a very good at what he does. You know, they need to contact me because, you know, just today at the NHPPA, Like we go into hibernation when when there's not an issue, right? Because we get no funding when there's no way like health Canada is not threatening. So we've been on a hibernation and now we're ramping up. And we're actually having to hire some people. And because you can't run these full-time campaigns without staff.

Like you just can't. And, you know, we've got all these ambitious structures and we're kind of operating on faith a little bit. We've got some funding coming in. But we're actually having this discussion just. today. It's like, well, maybe we can go at this rate for another month and then we've got to cut back because we just don't have the funding. So yeah, so if there's any of those salesmen out there, they should contact me because my gosh, we need, we need like a whole bunch of people to be committing monthly, even if it's a small amount. And, you know, we, but think about it.

I, I, so, okay, so I'll take a step back and I just go, if Sean had heard that before he was doing all this because I don't have time for it. I just, I, I, you know, when you, I appreciate you, you're pointing that out because I just don't have time to go chase down 50 companies and then follow up and and and and and and and and and right. So, but on the flip side, I remember this is an interview I did with Ryan Papuano and I don't expect Sean to know who that is, but he's one of the top junior A coaches in all of Canada for hockey. And he, he hired out his advertising. And I'm like, that's like one of the top teams in all of Canada folks hires out his advertising. Now maybe that has changed since I last talked to him because it's

been a few years. But at the time, I remember thinking, as a salesman, wow, what an easy sales job. I'm literally going to go around to all the companies and partner with the best team in Junior A. He doesn't have to do it. He loses a partial percentage, right? I can't remember what it was. I can't remember if he even told me. But let's just assume it was 20%. I don't know. Maybe is 15. But as a salesman, you start doing the math on that. And you're like, man, I, you know, I get enough companies in. I'm making a pretty good coin. And now I'm working for myself and get me away from all these big structures. And if you know enough companies that are in that realm, you just heard Sean talk about it. He might be willing to cut you 15%. Sean Newman might be

willing to cut you 15%. I could probably think of like five or six other podcasters would be willing to cut you 50. And all of a sudden, you could be, I don't know, could you be a millionaire off of it? Maybe. You do it well enough. I'm telling you, there's an idea for somebody out there. And when we talk about all these little pieces coming together in the puzzle pieces coming together, one of the big concerns, and me and Wayne and others have talked about the slots. Is they're like, I just don't got the money. Sean's budget is enough to survive. It isn't enough to go put up billboards and run advertising campaigns and have a team of 10 and blah, blah, blah, blah.

How does it get there? Obviously money and success. But you want to help that along. I'll challenge all. There's got to be a salesman or two that's listening to this who's working a job that he doesn't like. And he goes, oh, if I get gung-hoe and talk to the 12 guys I know and start hammering out and reach out to all these freedom-loving businesses

that are out there, Sean, that we both know about. And some of it isn't that extreme. I mean, you don't have to partner with. with Alex Jones, you could partner with Sean Buckley and health products of Canada. I think everybody can get behind that. Figure out a bonus structure and away you go. I mean, I don't know.

I hope I'm encouraging somebody because I'm also like, is Sean put the podcast on hold for a little bit here and just go chasing this idea? No, I'm not gonna do that. Well, no, I was actually suggesting people support you. So I know, I know from doing podcasts that these most podcasters are, you know, they're struggling and yet they're doing this is actually if we didn't have podcasters we'd

we'd all be enslaved totally by now like who else is is countering the narrative it's the podcasters it's like it's the independent media that is you know uh that is fighting to stay alive and the the censorship as much as we go all now meta is not allowing c tv and everything else i'm hearing different people that are having their pages blocked. And if that comes, you know, it's just going to make, Sean Newman isn't CTV or CBC. In order to find me, I rely heavily on the audience. So share, share, share. And I have to put out, I have to have people like Sean come on that speak intelligently.

So people are like, you should listen to this. And that's a, that's an uphill battle. There's no government subsidies. I wouldn't want them anyways. But that's, that was my point is I think people watching you. and podcasters like you do not appreciate the amount of work it is to do what you do. And so, yeah, so please, why don't you all send out Sean Newman's stuff to people you've never sent it out before so that the footprint grows?

Because it's another way of how we wake up and grow as a community and support these people, please. Well, Sean, I tell you what, this has been, you know, it was like at the start. How long are we going to go for? I don't know. We're almost two hours. We probably should. No, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, um, I've really enjoyed this. I've, uh, you know, um, uh, audience knows this by now, but I mean, I just got to meet you on a call earlier this week.

And, uh, he wasn't wrong because it took, it took a lot of, uh, fine tuning to finally get in contact with him and getting you on because people have wanted me to bring you on for quite some time. So can I just tell you one, one funny thing? So like, you know, you've seen this camera in the background. And this is kind of like the. thoroughfare in my house and my queer wife's, you know, hasn't been able to come up upstairs or downstairs.

So she actually crawled where you couldn't see her. So she would go here and handed me this, this is Canada thing because the NCI, so the national, yeah. Can you tell her the next time me and you talk, Sean? She is more that, you know, it's funny. When I was on holidays, my kids came in. I forgot to edit it out. People thought it was hilarious.

Some people probably thought it was unprofessional. But I was on holidays and the kids were in and I was trying to show them out of the And it's like, listen, the one major difference from me to mainstream media is I don't try to be perfect. I try to leave out some of the blemishes or leave in some of the blemishes because I need people understand that I'm not editing our conversation so that they only hear what I want on the hear. They're hearing everything. And so I assume there's going to be a whole lot of people that have listened to this point because that's what they do. And if they didn't like the description or they didn't like the first five minutes, they were gone a long time ago anyways. So if they're sitting here in an hour and 57, it's because they're like, man, this is Sean Buckle.

This is a good conversation. And I'll hear about it. So the next time, your wife, instead of crawling on the floor, just tell her to hand it to you. Yeah, no, yeah. So what this is, is the National Citizens Inquiry and, you know, has a, this is Canada initiative. And so this is just a flyer. You print it off. And what the challenge is, Canada is 156 years old.

So print out 156. at least and distribute them in your neighborhood. And if you're, you know, afraid to do it in your neighborhood, then just go to another neighborhood so you don't have to talk to your neighbors. But it just basically lets people know the citizens' inquiries there and challenges them to watch at least three witnesses because we've learned if you, and just pick them randomly. If you watch three witnesses, your life is destroyed. You can't stop watching and you get hooked.

And before you know it, you know, you're not going to work and you're not sleeping. And I'm just kidding. It's not that bad. But it does. If you've never, if you haven't watched any of it, all you got to do is pick one. I mean, it's, and I would, and I would argue pick the ones that meant the most to me that I watched. Not that they aren't, weren't all good, not that, but the ones, whenever it's closest to home, that's always been the stories that have really, um, meant the most to me. And so, uh, that would be my advice. But in saying that, I, I chuckle about it. If you're afraid to, to put out a, to put out a, a pamphlet in your community, then do like the liberals and do it at night. Yeah, but this is how you can make a difference. So, because remember, we just need to wake people up.

We have a close family member who just totally saw things differently than us. And it's not, like you wouldn't even dare send like a McCullough link or anything like that. Sure. But they watch the National Citizens Inquiry because it's non-threatening. It's a formal process like a courtroom. The witnesses are sworn to tell the truth. They're led by a lawyer and questioning.

And then the commissioners, it's safe. So we had Dr. McCullough. We've had the, you know, add out all the big names. And it's a safer way to watch them. But also just the Canadians, like just watching an ordinary person. Like it breaks down the barrier. So the reason why the NCAA came up with this campaign is it really is a way. Like let's say you put out 150.

six of them. What if five people watch and then wake up? And now they're going to affect their circle now. And it ripples and ripples. Like we don't have to be afraid anymore of sharing the truth. I think that's, I think that's a very, well, I like that point. I agree. So if you're watching, there it is. Where can they find it? So if you just go to the National Citizens Inquiry website. So that would be NCI. So National Citizensinquiry.ca, and you'll be able to find that this is Canada campaign.

It's like every other website you might have to dig a little bit, but it's not hard, and then you just have a PDF for the flyer. We just went to... National citizens inquiry.ca, correct? Yeah, yeah. Okay. One final question before I let you out of here. We do the

the Crudemaster final question. and, hmm, I'm, I've, yeah, I think I'm going to go a little old school on this. I'm going to go back a little bit. I haven't asked this one in a little while. It's Heath and Tracy McDonald's, so shout out to Heath and Tracy

because they've been supporters of this podcast for a very long time. And I certainly don't make life easy on that family or that company with all the different characters I bring on here. In saying that, Heath came on once upon a time, Sean, and his words were, if you're going to stand behind a cause, stand behind it, absolutely. What's one thing Sean Buckley stands behind?

I stand behind people's right to choose how they are going to treat their body. And for me, that's a line in the sand is because you're in a body. You're not a body. But here and now, you are in a body. And so when you feel pain, nobody else feels that pain. When you feel well, nobody else feels it. When you're sick, you know, you have to go through it. And most of us have already had some real suffering and we're going to face real suffering.

And the idea that somebody else can tell you how you are going to prevent yourself from suffering or how you're going to treat your body in any way, I just, I can't agree with that. So and that's why I've been in, I was a founding member of the natural health product protection association in 2008. And our incorporated goals are basically just to, you know, protect people's right to choose how they're going to treat the body with an emphasis on protecting our access to natural health products. So that's, that's something that I stand behind fully is, is, you know, our right to choose, basically have sovereignty over our own bodies. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your thoughts, some of your stories on it. It's been great to finally meet you and have you on here. I highly doubt it will be the last time.

But certainly wherever your travels take you, if there's things that come up, you think need shared, you obviously now have contact with me and knowing your backstory and some of the challenges you face. I just appreciate you coming on and sharing it with not only myself but the audience. and for you to continue to speak up and, you know, champion some pretty logical things. I think all Canadians should be easy to stand behind. Yeah, and it, Sean, it's just been an honor to be on your show. And it's just, it's kind of funny. Your audience doesn't know, but Sean and I ended up on a call on a different issue together earlier this week.

And it's kind of like, oh, you're, you're, Sean. I'm going to be on your show. So it's just kind of been a fun week and just an honor. and keep doing what you're doing because you're making a difference and it's appreciated. Well, thanks, Sean. And we will catch up to you, I hope, soon.

Now, folks, that was Sean Buckley. So I hope you enjoyed that. I tell you what, we got some interesting things going on on this side. So the first thing I want you to think before you hop off here is what was your favorite part of this episode? Me and Jack, he's been working for me now

for a couple months. He's like, I want to put out some longer form content, kind of like Joe Rogan, where they clip out, you know, five, ten minutes, whatever, whatever the spot you think it is. So if you are sitting there going and you're sitting here still listen to me now well over two hours and you go, this spot, man, that was great. Shoot me a text right now. The phone number's in the show notes. Would love to hear from you. And our plan is to clip from each episode moving forward a longer little clip to toss out on social media. So I'd like you guys to be a part of that process. So if there's something, shoot me,

a text, okay? Now, this episode's also been brought to you by Calrock Industries, use surplus, frack sales, and production tanks with new and used and refurbished oil and gas equipment in stock. Calrock is your best bet when it comes to finding equipment that fits your needs is within your budget and is ready as soon

as you need it. They can also custom manufacturer tanks and other equipment for your specific applications. That's here in the Lloydminster area, but if you're further out, just go to Calrock.com.ca. They've got all their contact information there, they'd love to hear from you.

My final thought before I let you out of here, folks, is we've been having a little bit of fun with Patreon, a little bit of bonus content in there as well. I hope you will continue to give us some of your thoughts there as we direct the podcast here moving forward because, as you know, and even Sean pointed out here on, is I really enjoy working with this entire audience. You guys have been fantastic through the phone lines. So if something's speaking to you, you're like, you know, man, a salesman by commission or if there's ideas you got, you know, never forget the phone line is in the show notes. I'd love hearing from you guys.

You've got different people you want to get on, like Sean Buckley, who just was on. That comes directly from all of you. So either way, I'm going to let you out of here. Thanks for tuning in, and we will catch up to you on the next one.