Shaun Newman Podcast - #501 - Grey - Hnidey - Rutherford

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Leighton Grey, Tanner Hnidey and Ken Rutherford hop on the podcast to discuss the 1 Million Person March that took place in Lloydminster. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Patreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

This is Leight and Gray. This is Tanner Nadee. This is Donald Best. This is Granny McCoy. This is Steve Holmstrom. This is Viva Fry. You're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks.

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If you haven't bought tickets for that, I encourage you to do so. obviously you folks do as you wish as you always do but he will be in emminton and calgary both shows initially had venues back away they had event bright back away and now they're back up fully functional so all you got to do is go to takebackalberta dot ca you can buy tickets there and i encourage you to do so if you've listened to drew and david on the show they talk about it or you can just go back to james lindsay's episode and hear what he's going to be talking about either way i encourage you to do so i'm going to forego the tail of the tape.

I don't think these guys need any introduction. So let's get on the show and, well, buckle up. Well, welcome in the Sean Numa podcast. Today we're joined by Layton Gray, Tanner & Day, Ken Rutherford. So it's a, I don't know, in this podcasting world, I feel like it's a bit of an all-star cast sitting here, folks. But, of course, we just finished the $1 million March for Children, where, you know, I would say close to 700 people in and around

and Lloyd Minster showed up. We got calculating numbers at the end. There was certainly some points that were close to boiling, but on the whole, I would say, you know, for what was built on social media and some of the things that came out with the unions and everything else and trying to, you know, like go in sight violence essentially.

You know, I thought that overall the entire day went, the march went well, the community showed up. The route was great. the highway but that's me saying that I had you know of course Ken you were in the back and then Tanner and late you guys spoke and you got to you faced the biggest brunt of the audience right at the start so I don't know boys so wherever you want to go I brought you in here because I'm like well let's you know let's let the audience know what happened and and see what the you know comes of it

well can I start sure if you've read your Aristotle and I know Tanner has One of the things that Aristotle wrote was called the politics. And he said that the beginnings, or when you're near the end of a civilization, when you have two things in excess, one is apathy and the other is tolerance. Most people would guess the first one, but they would not guess the second one. What was accomplished today was the same type of thing that I would say, and I'll defer to you on this, Sean, because you were. there, I would guess the same type of thing that was absent at the freedom convoy, and that's apathy. So what was great about today, we had a lot of people out there. I found overall it was joyful. There was an absence of apathy. People were there and they were there for the right

reasons. There's a lot of fellowship and caring. But there was also tolerance and the right kind of tolerance. I think part of the problem, part of the reason why we had to be there today is because we have had we have we have had in our society what Aristotle was talking about and overabundance of tolerance and what I mean by that is I think that we've lost sight of certain standards of behavior morality even sexuality the truth okay which guide a society and that's why we had to be there today is try to restore that sanity asked questions like okay well what is true what should we what should children be learning in school. Our parents and our parents entitled to know what's what their kids are being

taught. Where are the lines? Today didn't accomplish that, but I think it's the beginning of a conversation, right, where we can be tolerant of people who are in the LGBT community. But at the same time, perhaps restore some standards, some necessary standards that have to exist in a peaceful society where individuals and groups can coexist without conflict because you saw today there was a small group of people who were there causing a ruckus on the counter protest side. I'm saying 700 people on the high side on our side, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, but we certainly got up to 650 and counted. So there was people that didn't march.

There's people that stayed back and you do the math. You're like, it was close to 700, I would say. And on the high side of them, there was 10. Right. I would say. I think you're fair. Yeah. But they were tolerated in the way that I'm saying we need to exercise.

We have to be a tolerant society, okay? But we cannot be overly tolerant in the way the aerosol describes. Because if we do that, we lose everything. We have to have standards. We have to have to accept standards of behavior and respect that everybody understands that we can all live by. We don't have to all necessarily agree on those. And they're subject to revision from time to time. But I think we've been as a society in Canada overly tolerant, tolerant to excess.

So what's actually happened is we have exalted victimhood. Not just, I'm not just talking about LGBTQ. I'm talking about other victimhood categories. And I think what today is saying is people saying, you know what? We have to get back to reality, get back to truth. What's real? You know, what are the things, the essential things that we care about? We really care about children, we really care about proper education for them.

We really care about our kids. communities and we really care about our country. So that's kind of what I took out of today. So it's interested no people think about that. If you don't mind commenting back, I'll tell you what my actions were on the day and you could say whether I was being too tolerant or not from your view is I'm sitting at the back. You know, my children are there. That's just a little bit concerned for their safety because of what we seen came out on social media from the unions and that. So I figured I'm just going to kind of stand at the back. Just watch. Do I see trouble on the horizon and maybe I can view the whole whole thing from the back. Well, I'm looking over there. And from that group,

which I say that group being the ones with the flags or the colors or this not, let's say there was 10. There was really two or three that I found to be very, very, I'll say rude from my view, yelling, swearing, looking for arguments. The other group, I looked over, I'm sitting with my little three-year-old son, and they're sitting on the ground doing braids with strings. I'm like, this feels really weird. Why don't I just go over and introduce myself to them? Let's see what that does. So I go over and I just shake their hand. I'm like, I'm Ken.

And, you know, we just have a certain conversation. They say, listen, we may disagree on some things, but I just want to know I'm celebrating your right to come and protest. And I respect your right to protest. And even if we agree to disagree, I still think we could have a coffee. And I got to say they were very up and maybe their hackles were up when I came. By the time we're done, I've swapped emails with a couple of them. We're going to have a coffee.

and I just found that de-escalated, the eight out of the tent. And they got to a point actually where they said, I support this side of the discussion, but I can say that these people, I'm not part of them. The two of they're with the megaphones and yelling and screaming, I'm embarrassed to be with them. And I didn't know them prior today. And this is not how this should be done.

So I just won't by having a conversation. Maybe we could just still be friends, but celebrate Canada for being able to voice your opinion, protest. and we can still be civil. No, am I being too tolerant? No. I think what you're doing is you're living out the Second Commandment. Jesus says to love your neighbor.

You don't go and vilify and attack your enemy. There's a tie and a place for that. But in your situation where I think you're doing there is you're living out the idea that you're loving your neighbor, right? What I'm talking about is more like the conversation between Christ and pilot after Christ is convicted by the Sanhedron. and they have this conversation. And Jesus says,

Pilate says, what is truth? And this to me is emblematic of what's going on in our society. Pilot is the allegorically, he's like the symbol of what the left is saying. What is truth? There's no such thing. It's all relative, right? Man can be a woman, a woman can be a man, right? Up is down, left is right?

But Christ says, no. He doesn't say no. He says, I am truth. Right? And Christ embodies the reality. He is the reality. He is the truth, right? He is objective reality personified, right? He's the son of God. And what I'm talking about is we cannot abandon. We can not go so far as to what you did and having those conversations. You didn't concede the truth of the LGBTQ ideology. You didn't concede that. You were having a conversation with them. You were trying to get an understanding. You were showing empathy. I think you were showing Christian fellowship, right? But there's something different. from that as opposed to what the left is really demanding of us when they say when they the words that they are saying when they're out there protesting against us they're telling us to

step down off the ramparts and to abandon that truth that wall right which is this is the objective truth this is the truth this is the way and I think we have to be the salt and light we have to show people the way you did that this is who we are we don't hate people we don't vilify people We don't attack people for what they believe in, but we also do not abandon the ramparts of truth and reality and God. Thank you. Thank you, sir with you gentlemen. Yeah, very much. I thought the day was a marvelous success.

I think what I took away most from the day itself was how it appeared to me to be a microcosm of the country. I think a lot of Western countries at large right now, which is you have a majority, you have a good port. a massive portion of Canada who wants to abide by the Constitution, morality, law, et cetera, et cetera. But they're, you know, they're quiet. They're everyday regular average individuals, average Canadians. There's, you know, the salt of the earth. And then you had, like Sean mentioned, like we all mentioned, this small group, this small organized group and even maybe a smaller group within that group that was making a lot of noise,

you know, causing a ruckus, causing a fuss, really. making themselves loud. It's like an animal that makes itself larger before an attack, tries to intimidate. And it seems like those are the sorts of individuals that in school, you know, go to political science, in school, take liberal arts, and then through a series of motions

tend to end up, it seems, in bureaucracy, tend to end up in government. Or law. Or law. Or law. And doing so then, of course, they make decisions. They make new regulations.

new rules, even though it's not necessarily indicative of the nation at large. And that seems to be the story of history. You know, that seems to be, well, yeah, it's, you know, from the start of scripture, you see when one or two individuals, you know, think of King Ahab or Jezebel, you know, making decisions for the entire nation. Of course, we need a government. But you have, throughout history, a few individuals that make decisions which aren't necessarily reflective of the nation itself, and as a consequence, the nation is led into turmoil.

And so I thought the way that it was handled was brilliant because like Sean mentioned it was totally peaceful. Ken was having conversations. Layton was speaking. You know, there was no, throughout that entire speech, I never once felt like there was going to be a, you know, even though people were yelling or getting louder and so on, I never once felt like it was on the verge of becoming a fistfight.

You know what I mean? It's the people that were in support of us seem civil, even though emotions were high, of course. And as hard as that's very small. group tried to disrupt, I found it to be ineffective. I thought it was ineffective. I thought the actual day itself was exceptionally ineffective. Well, I mentioned, you know, to a few that, you know, if we had 100 people show up and they had their 10, this is going to get Western. Yeah. Because no different if they had 100 and we had 150 or something, right? Yeah. They're more emboldened by the more

success they have. Yes. As we all are. I'm not pointing to them. I'm just saying in general. If you're trying to provoke something and you feel success coming, then you, you know, you kind of, you get your teeth sunk in a little deeper, if you would, for an analogy. And I said, but if, you know, I was joking, but if 10,000 show up and there's,

there's 10 of them, like, what are they going to really do? Right. I mean, there's just so many bodies. And the thing was that I didn't realize, but now that I started thinking about, you know, at the beginning of the speech is at 10 o'clock, 10, 10 when I started, there was probably 300 people there, I would bet. And I brought, you know, everybody come in, all right, let's get in. But by the time we leave for the walk, there's 700 people there.

It doubled. So actually, one of the, whether it's the people having the conversations, whether it's, you know, there's only 10 of them and only two of them are actually trying to provoke, I would add a third because there was a giant of a man who was, who was, uh, attacking Layton with just verbally folks that I don't he didn't stick around for the entire thing I actually don't know where he went especially for me he did he was he was a big man though like late and you're big man he was like he was like my six six six five standing out there and he he really I was surprised by him he because he was yelling at me when I and I couldn't figure out he was for us

against us what he was doing but he you know but then he said there is no god and he and he and he attacked Christians in particular and we all know now like after I just got off a phone call with a Muslim from town, right? And there was different ethnicities there that, once again, it's not just one person that showed up to it. It was a community. And I just go like, so go back to the anti-protesters, the counter-protests, I guess.

When there's just two of them and there's 700 people, what do you plan to accomplish? Well, this is, go ahead. I have a question, maybe just to broaden that out. Canada is one of the only countries that has actually done a study to find out precisely how many transgender and non-binary people we have. And the number is really, really small. It's 0.3% of our population.

That should shock people when you consider the impact that they're having on our culture. So I want to just maybe tie that in with your question. My question is, why do you gentlemen think that that the This ideology has become so prevalent, has taken over so many of our, really all of our institutions. They are, they've become the most exalted class of human beings in the history of civilization, the LGBTQ crowd. How and why has that happened when they comprise such a small percentage of our population? What do you guys think about that? I think that ties in with your question.

Am I right? Sure. Yeah. I want to listen to. Sean just had a guest, Brian, am I putting you out the spot? The fellow is going to come up with David Parker. Oh, James Lindsay.

James Lindsay. I'm sorry, James Lindsay. When he spoke, I'm like, that's a man I want to listen to you. So if Dave Parker can get up, for me, you two gentlemen are more of a history about them. I'm going to get the chance in your name on October 2nd. Oh, fantastic. I want to learn from him because he does a very good job. And Sean's interview of laying out a little bit of the history and where this started and the ideology and where it got plugged into the colleges and the universities and that.

Yeah, so that's right, sir. But boy, I'm not a lot of his story. But what do you think, what do you think just, you know, being, you know, who you are? I mean, what, where do you think this is coming from? Like Sean, Sean raises a good point. There's only a few of them versus 700. And that seems to be pretty much representative of their percentage, right? It's almost microcosmically true.

Why are they so, I guess there's a good example. They're so loud. They're so vociferous, right? they're so against everyone who disagrees with them. I'd propose this late and tell me, you gentlemen, tell me if I'm wrong, is that when we say them, they were so loud, there's really two. There's two out of a group of ten. Eight of them were not.

I found eight of the two. I was using their pronoun. No, yeah. But I'd say eight out of the ten I found were very respectful, actually. Once I introduced myself to them, they were respectful. And I wonder, I was kind of sitting there talking, I'm like, I wonder if this is a repeat of COVID. I found everybody was very polarized and everybody had a very strong opinion, but very few people were deeper than an inch deep in saying, why do you believe COVID real? Why do you think

the vaccine does or does not work? Most people, it was because I've seen on a Facebook post this morning, which has formed my opinion, the number of people that actually plowed in. And those eight of the ten that I befriended, I think they believed, I think, I'd like them to speak for themselves and over a coffee, we'll find that out. I think they just thought they were there to support the LGBTQ plus community. I don't think that they really understood that this is about parental rights and nobody there was to say you can't be gay, you can't be transgender. We were talking about it was about parental rights and just making sure

It was about parental rights and so much in Saskatchewing coming into the school system. Planned Parenthood and the A to Z sex cards. And I think if we sat down with them and said a reasonable conversation, we're not against that. We're sounding up for his parental rights and getting these A to Z sex cards out of the school. I think they'd say, I agree. I think is what they'd say.

How many people today in your conversations didn't know about Lumsden? You know what was interesting? The Muslims. I spent some time chatting with them, and they had no idea. They didn't know what happened in Malmson. They didn't know Planned Parenthood ADZ cards and schools. Okay, then I talked with another lady who talked to the same lady, sorry, the same community you're talking about with the different out of the 10 of the folks showed up, eight of them. And she got talking Malmson and none of them knew about that either.

And they're like, oh. And it's like, listen, when we do these hypotheticals of it's, you know, the James Lindsay thing, it's this very gray world. And sometimes just getting to like, listen, the story that Miranda said on stage about the child committing suicide at the age of 10, I believe. And she believe, like, I hope I say this right. But she, in her last statement she writes in her book, and I wish I had the exact thing. So I apologize for paraphrasing something. But Miranda's on stage, when she said before she commits suicide, this 10-year-old in Manitoba is, God got me wrong. And I'm going to go ask them why.

That was so profoundly. That's really sad that story. And so, you know, sometimes you just need the black and white, you know? The black and white is Lumsden. Well, do you believe in, well, it's only grade nine, Sean. It's like, do you believe in filtering? Does anyone in this bloody society believe anywhere, even the 0.03% of Canadians? Does anyone believe in that?

Or believe that a grade 9 school kid should be exposed to it. The answer is no. Like, it's just emphatically no. And so there is this bill sold to, this is the algorithm. rhythm doing its work. Agreed. It's being sold as we're there to protest the LGBT-QSL-2-plus community. And we are against everything.

Now, were there people there that are, for sure? But the protest was about parental rights. I want to know if my child is having problems at school. It was about Soji. And the Saskatchewan side goes, well, it isn't here yet. And you're right. It isn't. But it's in Alberta.

It's in BC. It's all over these different places. And what are we going to do? Wait until it's in and then try and repeal it. We see how that goes. And so I found just fascinating. Okay, we have this big giant protest. We walk around.

They walk with us, which is kind of funny. I'm like, well, you're boosting our numbers. What do you do? Right? We get back, and Mark Toop gets on, and he's just playing a couple songs. And the entire thing is just peaceful. And there they are, their group, their little piece of society sitting there, and then there's other families and kids running around.

I'm like, and this is what it is. I'm like, why aren't they protest? Like, this is what we're asking for. Just let things be. and you want your piece, but they don't understand that. Their backs against the wall because they truly believe

we were there to lynch them or something. I think there's an explanation for that that people like Mr. Lindsay give, but I don't want to crowd tenor because did you want to comment on that last point tenor? Your question's a good one. Why is it that it's so, yeah, why is it such a prevalent issue in society,

especially when it composes such a small segment of society? Well, as a Christian, I'd say probably be, Because honestly, the topic of gender, identity, and so on is foundational. It's the first chapter of Genesis. That's one of the first things God says to Adam and Eve, I made you male, I made you female. That's how I made you. And that's the end of it.

That's like full stop. Amago Day. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. So that's the foundation of society. So I think if, well, as a Christian, of course, Satan, right? If Satan can topple that, it's like taking the foundation out of a house, right? The whole thing comes with it.

So I think it's just it's a critical, strategic piece for the enemy to try and conquer. If he does so, the rest of society tumbles so quickly. That would be my answer. That's interesting. It ties into one of the thing I was going to say, and that is the way that things like the LGBT, and I don't want to pick on them, but I'm talking about the left particularly. is foundational to everything that they do is this Marxist ideology. And when you take apart Marxism, built within it is constant conflict, right?

There's this Aegellian dialectic where you have two ideas coming into conflict and one must always win. So we have to always prevail. And so whenever the left is out and they're against something, it's always in conflict. Okay. And I'm going to distinguish that from, and I'm going to show my Lutheran roots here from our old friend Martin Luther, right, who was a, he was a Catholic monk 500 years ago, operating in Germany, unknown intellectual. He probably didn't even know at the time how brilliant he was,

how gifted he was by God in terms of interpreting script. You're talking about a guy who sequester himself for six weeks and translated the entire Bible from Greek into German. So maybe the brainiest person ever. But anyway, what he does is he takes these 95 theses and he posts them onto the door of the Wittenberg Church. But what he was trying to do, that was a protest, okay? Hence the term protestant, which describes all the non-Cathic churches now. But what he was doing, his goal was not to attack necessarily to take down the structures of the Catholic Church.

He was saying, look, I've studied scripture, and I'm really sure that what you guys are doing it wrong. And here are some ideas about how we fix it, right? that's something very different than attacking necessarily he didn't want to tear down the whole the whole superstructure of the Catholic Church you know he didn't say I'm no longer a Catholic monk they declared him heretic but I'm saying he wasn't operating on a Marxist idea right he was operating within you know within the idea of of a Christian ethic and that is you know having having a discourse a discussion right let's have a conversation about about ideas right

this is really important. Let's have a conversation. But this Marxist ideology prevents all that. And one of the great things about today is, hopefully, like you did, we have a conversation, right? And maybe that might even get into, that might get down to the level of ideas, but maybe it just stays at the level of I'll respect you. I'll understand you. You know, I understand, you know, maybe the right of my fist ends where your nose begins, right? But I think that's the reason why they always come on so strong and they're against everything

is because underneath it is this Marxist ideology, which tears everything down in a nihilistic way. It has to because it subscribes the idea that we have to tear everything down that we believe in, that we think works, which is kind of the sum total of all the knowledge in Western civilization. We have to tear it all down because and for something else. But they never tell us, never tell us what that something is, do they, Tanner? Right. No, it's precisely right. I think we've talked about this in your show before, where, you know, the progressive ideology eats itself alive because it's constantly progressing. Like the moment it crosses a finish line and completes an objective is the moment it dies.

Right. It's self-defeating because then you can't progress anymore. So like, you know, you can take a lot of different examples in society. Take climate change, for example. No one knows what the end goal of solving climate change is because their point is there is no end goal. You have to progress eternally, always trying to fix. the climate and therefore justifying new measures day after day after day to achieve some goal which will never be achieved. And that's, yeah, that's the point. I completely agree. It's this perpetual conflict. Yeah. Because it enables the ruling, you know, party or class or

the ruling individuals to continue to exercise new regulations, new powers, new controls in the name of winning, a war that never ends. Yeah. So that's, we're always live in crisis. And I think, I don't want to say this, but I mean, there might be some people, let's say, in Ottawa, and the liberal government who might have been secretly hoping that today was going to result in. I heard that in Toronto they brought tanks in. I don't know if that's true. I saw pictures. I thought I saw pictures.

Right. So, but, but, you know, praise God that didn't happen, right? So we actually showed them we can protest peacefully, just like really, you guys, guys like Sean did in, in Ottawa last year, right? And that's the goal. And I mean, we've got a chance. We've got it. I think we've got an opportunity to live in a peaceful, harmonious society if we can do that. If we have conversations like Mr. Rutherford here had with those counter protesters, right?

Have you ever heard the podcast with, I get the name is Ira Glasser. He was on Joe Rogan. He's a lawyer from the states. He's involved in the civil rights movement. I've heard of Ira, but I didn't see that episode. Oh, my goodness. It's a must listen to. No matter which side of the table you're on,

whether you're the people on either side there today, you have to listen to this episode because it talks about, he was a, like I say, he's a lawyer in the civil rights, but how we actually, even if something you very strongly disagree with, you have to let the other side talk.

The only way we solve this civilly is through freedom of speech and debate and civil debate. And so what I noticed is when I started talking to them, I'm like, I think we could actually cover some ground here really quick. if we just talk, right? And they, and I have to let them talk and hear their side.

Then they have to let me talk. Maybe I change them to my way. Maybe we don't change at all. But it just seems very, very, um, anyway, Ira Glasserie, I need to re-listen to it on Rogan. A question to you, gentlemen, I'm just sitting here thinking out loud is I don't get this opportunity. You're often. Sean's got his degree in history and got a lawyer and economists that are all very knowledgeable in the past. My daughter and I were just talking this morning is, in my mind,

from my limited knowledge, all my business, my training is all business. I'm not a history trained person. But my answer to your first question would have been this ties into Marxism in some way, shape or form. And what I find my daughter are debating is that the side I think that was on the other side sure talks a lot about inclusion. So if you are different in color of skin or in religion or sexual preference, we should include them all. but yet unless my opinion disagrees with yours and then you should be wiped from the face of the earth we will not include those and in my mind is that must lead into Marxism of destroying to where we have one opinion one idea one party one like that and anything outside of that is not included except

for that one opinion is that am I on to something gentlemen before you I've just I'm not even listening anymore sorry folks I'm like searching I'm trying to find out if there was tanks and Trump And so there's a huge argument on Twitter, whether it's a tank, whether it's an armored vehicle, et cetera, et cetera. So I have people who listen out east, and I would love to just know via text. And so for this argument of this podcast, right now we're saying there's tanks that were in Toronto last night. That's when this tweet and these series of tweets happens. And what I would say is for the people who are listening to this on Thursday morning, if you're listening from out east, maybe you can clarify and I can update on Friday to just be like, this is actually what was going on.

Because right now, I'm like, there's video of an armored vehicle driving down what looks to be Toronto. And the caption is, what is happening in the city of Toronto right now? Anyways. And then there's just a whole bunch. Like, it's kind of like waiting through. Like, is this happening? Isn't this happening? If it is happening, why isn't all the big key players hitting it?

Why isn't Jordan Peterson tweeting it, right? And on and on. And so when I look at it, I'm just like, well, somebody out east is going to be able to clarify that for me. So we'll just throw that at the listeners. Sorry to interrupt. But carry on. Yeah. Tanner has some great ideas about this, but when you think of all of this, we throw it into sort of a

grab bag of leftist or woke ideology. We put that label on it. But we're talking about things like critical race theory, diversity, inclusion, equity. What do these things mean? And the LGBTQ, and even for that matter, environmental history, right? It always seems to come back to an attack upon freedom and capitalism. We talk a lot about this in the APP. right? And it saddens me very much to know and to acknowledge publicly that all these horrible ideas all come out of law schools. And but that's just the truth over the past 30, 40, 50 years and this is what's the this has infiltrated all of our all of our educational systems. It's even getting into hard science now. It made its way through the humanities and and out political science,

social science is completely, I mean just just talk about you know, you know, psychology and psychiatry because completely, completely, you know, captured by these ideologies.

But they all are essentially repackaged Marxism. Okay. In fact, if you look at the environmental movement, you know, the green movement, it's just repackaged red communism.

They just took all of the words and all the ideology. After 1989, the wall fell. And we thought, oh, we won. It's all over. over, listen folks, it wasn't over.

There are a lot of people weren't ready to give up the fight and they repackage it. They made all that red communism and they cool again and they called it green and that's where the green movement comes from. But why, I mean, just ask yourself, you know, Greta Tunberg, why is a movement that's supposed to be based upon science focused upon economic theory? What does Greta Thumburg say? How dare you, right? She's speaking to capitalists.

Well, why is capitalism responsible for climate change, right? Especially when you consider that, you know, the greatest CO2 emitter in the world is by, you know, by the CCP, right, in China. It doesn't really make sense. None of this stuff really makes sense when you break it down. But what the one thing that it, that it all does, unfortunately, is it divides people. It's a politics of division that we're living through in Canada, especially over the past eight years under the Trudeau regime. But how do we stop it?

I think we stop it by doing things like what happened today in the Freedom Convoy, getting connected with our communities, you know, getting off. I think, you know, Facebook news being banned in Canada is an example of what Joseph said in the Old Testament where he says, you know, what has done for evil, the Lord turns to good. Getting people off of Facebook, getting them outside, talking to each other. Right? Getting people actually sitting down with a pen and paper and writing letters to each other. It's beautiful.

I think Ken's exactly right. I think Layton's exactly right. But Ken's, he's perfectly correct, right? These individuals scream the word tolerance unless it disagrees with what they believe. And then all of a sudden they become drastically, hideously intolerant. And that's true of just, of not just tolerance, I think, but the entire movement itself. Like when you study progressivism in detail, you begin to notice that so many of, of their, you actually can't even call it values, right?

Because the values they believe in are all subjective. And so values don't really exist, it's just whatever you feel like. But when you study all of what they preach, what they believe in, and it becomes so abundantly clear that everything which they preach, they believe something directly opposite. So the tolerance example is an excellent example, right? Be tolerant, but if not, then we're going, then I'm going to be intolerant of you. Or we celebrate diversity, unless you don't conform to our... It's diversity of person, look, everything, but not diversity of thought.

But not diversity. Me and Jonathan Pajro literally talked about it today on episode 500 as we sit here and record this. This is what we got to is I'm like, it's diversity of everything except for thought. They no longer want diversity of thought. They want diversity of what the person looks like and all these different things, but you have to think the same bloody thing as everybody else. Otherwise, you're deemed, you know, whatever word you want to. associate it with. Sorry, could you repeat that? So Paggio says, well, me and Pajro got to the point where I'm like,

he's talking about diversity, right? They want diversity. They want a man, they want a woman. They want to have a transgender, transgender man and woman. They want to have this, this, this, this, a Muslim, Chinese man, this and this. But they all have to think the same thing. And if they don't think the same thing, then they don't like it. And that's diversity of everything except for thought and belief. And so they don't want anybody to challenge. what the mainstream narrative is. That's what we're doing here. That's what we did today in Lloyd

and across all of Canada is you're challenging the narrative and the way they sell it, you know, like we walk into McDonald's grab a coffee before we came over folks. And on the TV, sing,

and Jagmeet is walking with the pride and shouting and sing and these against hate or whatever. And then they have the transgendered woman, I think, man who's a woman, on TV to talk about it. But what? Where's the protester about why they're protesting?

Because that would be diversity of thought. Instead, they frame it as, this is terrible and this is why. And they sell this. And the problem is, is in Canada now, the reason why 650 to 700 people show up is because it's no longer working. It's broken. And most people are seeing it. And if it wasn't in the middle of workday, they probably would have been more. And if the teachers hadn't been told you're not allowed to go to this.

You are not allowed to show up to this. There would have been more. And certainly, if it had been on weekend, then would there have been more counter protesters? Probably. But, I mean, when you think there was 700 to 10, okay, 1,400 to 20. I mean, you kind of do the simple math. But when you're watching our country right now,

Singh is out there because everybody, you know, it's all about the people being attacked, except nobody's attacking the LGBT. Literally, they're the ones there in a peaceful protest, screaming in a microphone, trying to get aggression and violence to happen. That's what they were trying to elicit out of people. Instead of just sitting back, listening,

and then going, hey, could we have a moment? And maybe that would have allowed. Because what they did was today, they tried eliciting anger, emotion, pull you into all these arguments. And when that no longer worked, they said, hey, well, how about you guys come over and have a conversation?

And when nobody would go over and have a conversation, then they got angry again. No one of you want to even listen anymore. It's like, no. Two out of ten did. Two out of ten. Yeah. And I go, actually, I do want to have a conversation.

I just don't think the way you've acted today results in me wanting to have a conversation with you. I want to have the conversation. But it has to be under the right set of circumstances where we come to the table and can be amicable to one another. So we're not attacking. We're just trying to get to the bottom because like some of the two of the ten, the way they conducted themselves today is like, well, why would I talk to you? Why would anyone talk to you? You were literally yelling at grandmas and grandpas. That was it was at the back.

Swearing. Right? And right in their face. Yeah, tell me one person you've ever had seen their mind convinced by yelling and screaming at them. Right. If I really believe what I believe and I want you to change to my way of thinking, what would if I said, Sean, I'd like to say, don't have a coffee. I think I'd like to change your opinion or Tanner.

You know, maybe I think you're wrong on this. What do you think? Change my mind and I'll try and change yours. If I say, and I will do it with respect. Well, you have about a what percent, a larger, much larger percent, than screaming it's out. I don't even know what the purpose of screaming at somebody is. If you're really trying to make me think that your side is right.

Well, you've already said it out of, if there's 10 and there was two that were the doing all the, you know, and I say there was a third, there was certainly a third. But regardless, for that own group, the reason why it isn't becoming, well, maybe it will, I don't know. But like the reason why there's seven or eight of them going, yeah, I'm not with that is because they don't want to be with that. Like they, you know, like they want it to be amicable. They want to. all of us want to find our spot in society and be talked to and everything else. And COVID, the thing that hurt me the most is people just attacked people's character and no longer the argument.

And society deemed that to be okay. Our leader got up and called a whole group of people XYZ and gave license to do that. And some of this is still to follow from that. It's happening to Russell Brand right now. Russell Brand is a good one. Cancel culture is, in fact, it's worse than it's ever been. But here's a question for you. You're talking about trying to have a rational conversation with the counter-protesters.

How do you have a rational conversation about sexuality with someone who insists that a man can become a woman and a woman can become a man? Who insists that they even go so far as to say that unborn children. There are women who are pregnant carrying children, and some of them identify as men, by the way, and they say that the unborn baby that they're carrying is speaking to them, telling them what gender they are. And sometimes that gender is not male or female. Sometimes, I mean, I believe now there are hundreds of them. How do you have a rational conversation with somebody who believes that so fervently that they will come out

and one gentleman put on a a flag a transgender flag and wore it as a cape how do you how do you argue I don't know the answer but how do you argue with Captain Trans how do you do that but one thing I would say

is I once listen to probably the likes of you to talk about your faith and went all right this guy's a crackpot so you have to have a little bit of faith folks that by lending an olive branch and talking with somebody that you can peak the curiosity and get them pulling on a thread and lead them to better waters or better lands or better whatever. Because once upon a time, I would never have had the word Jesus on this podcast. Everybody who's listened

to me from the start, maybe doesn't, I probably never said that straight out, but certainly they knew where I was coming from. And in the last, you know, I mean, Tanner knows, we talked to Jesus two and a half hours, right? Like late in the last time you were on, we got into the faith thing. I was like, I don't know, this is where we're going. This is where we're going. And so although I disagree with them wholeheartedly, that's for them to figure out. And for me to, you know, kind of lightly have the conversation. But when it comes to enforcing it on the entire population, that's where I disagree. You know, I can't walk into somebody else's family life and say, this is where you got to be. That's not going to elicit the right response. And that's what's slowly or quickly happening to not just

North, or not just Canada, but North America maybe even further. You, um, you talked about Jonathan Pajon, and I've heard Jonathan Pajot speak on Jordan Peterson's podcast. And he talks about these grand narratives. And you say, well, it feels like Canada's broken. And that begs the question, well, what is broken? I think part of the answer that Jonathan Pajos talks about, one of the explanations he gives is we have these. grand narratives. And I would use, I would break this down to if you were, if you were able to go back in time and time machine and you got to be onto a pontoon boat and you were amongst the young 19, 20 year old men who were about to storm Juneau Beach and you asked them, okay, why are you going to get off this boat and storm that beach? Right? They'd probably talk about God. They'd probably talk about family. They talk about country. They talk about friendship, right?

They talk about their brothers, brothers in arms, right? So those are the grand narratives. If you think about it, we've lost that mentality, this storm the beach mentality. And so just leaving, let's say, the LGBT people off to the side, what I think is a very compelling conversation is we're so divided in Canada. What are those grand narratives? Are the grand narratives that were meaningful to the guys at Normandy storming the beach at Normandy? Are they still alive? Are they still here?

Do we need new ones? Are there grand narratives into which, for example, the Muslim community and the Christian community and the secular community could buy into? You know, that we could unite under. For example, President Maloney is doing this right now in Italy, right? and we have countries that are astonishingly Christian, like Hungary, you can believe it. I mean, nobody alive in 1956 would imagine that Hungary today is a Christian country. But the way they've done that, the way they've achieved that and united their country is, I think, by getting back to these grand narratives, we need them.

We need these overarching ideas that unite us because that's what the flag is. The flag is a logos, right? Which is a Greek word. It means meaning, literally, right? It's something we can look to and that means something and that's what that's something we can strive towards. And I see a lot of these these movements, these different movements, the LGBTQ is one example that wants to tear down these grand narratives. So when people say that the country's broken, what I hear them really saying is they can't see these grand narratives anymore. They don't see the big picture that makes things make sense, right?

What do you guys think about that? I wonder the town, you should just steal it. from us over talkers, Tanner, anytime. Tanner's got his head down. He's thinking. You're thinking. You think up the grandiose. Anybody who listened to his sermon today about Daniel knows that he, he's a very

knowledgeable guy. Boy, you were preaching the word today, Taryn. That was very moving. What are a couple things to just in response to your question there. What I noticed today is I would say that going back a few years, I was programmed to think that I should be fearful of Muslims. Right, when we go back to the 9-11 and all that, right? And going to diversity, having friends from around the world, traveling quite a bit,

I've managed to unprogram myself. I'm not saying we should never be fearful of anybody else, but regardless. What I noticed today is when I went up to the Muslims today, and I said, thank you for coming out. We need the Muslim community, because what do we have in common, as you mentioned, protection of children? That's an easy one.

Love for children. Right? So did we spend any time talking about what? we disagree on? No, we quickly hugged and said, we need to stick up and protect the children. So I think that's maybe one that unites us. I would think anyways, what do you think, Tanner? I would say, yes, I think Layton's little latent talk there was taken basically directly from abolition of man, from chapter two of abolition of man, where Lewis says, C.S. Lewis says honestly, almost precisely the same thing you said, which was there are self-evident

object, morals, there are self-evident truths, there are self-evident laws that serve to be the foundation of society. And if you remove those self-evident truths and begin to question them, in essence, you begin to rationalize away rationality. You begin to question rationality itself. And so again, it leads to that self-destruction. The end of abolition of man goes, Lewis is talking about, he paints a picture. And he says, you know, he says, it's good that you have a window. And it's good that the window is transparent. Because when, or it's because the window's transparent that you can look outside the window and see your garden. It's like, that's a good thing. He's like, but what would happen if you could see through the garden too? He's like, well,

then you might see the street behind the garden. But then what if you could see behind the street as well? He says, what if you repeated that process at infinitum? He's like, don't you understand that a wholly transparent world is an invisible world? It's like to see through all things. So for the progressives to see through every single value and say we're going to tear it down and see something new, it's the same thing as not to see. It's the same thing as being completely blind. And so your point, I think, yeah, it's precisely correct. Now, as a Christian, of course, right, I think the grandest foundation is Christ, right? I think all of it leads back to there. But you have, like you said, country, family, you know, supremacy of God, etc., which are the other foundations and morals that

they're just, they're true because they are. You know, like, again, I always use the Ten Commandments. Those are so clear. Oh, yeah. Like, who would argue that a lie is a good thing? Or, and some people do, actually. Who am I kidding? Maybe our Prime Minister.

You're right, but it's, you're right. But that, but, but, but you're right. But I think you and I, as rational individuals, don't have to argue against it. You just say you're wrong because you are. Like, it's so clear that a lie is wrong. The very fact that you say that a lie is a good thing defeats itself because then you'd be telling the truth, right? So it's, it's, it's, there are foundations to society.

If you tear them down, you tear down society. I think, yeah, both men are right. They're right. Yep. I love it when people tell me I sound like C.S. Lewis. Yeah. That book, Abolition of Man, that's a must read. It really is.

His are all. Don't tell me that last, last, you were reading the screw tape letters. Well, the last time he came in, he's like, you haven't read the screw tape letters? So then I opened it, okay? And in fairness on Friday, folks, it's going to go from this with Jonathan Pazzo on 500,

this on 501. And 502 is me and Tom Longo talking, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Dark Night trilogy. It's like, but once again, it's this overarching, how do you tell a good story? How do you, and certainly it is deeper than how light I make those things seem. It's just, it's a nice change of pace. But the last time he's in, roughly, he goes, you'd read screw tape letters. And I think then after that we talked again and I was in the middle of screw tape letters.

And I opened up his note to J.R.R. Tolkien. Yes. And that unnerved me as much as the bloody book. Do you imagine those conversations in the garden between the C.S. Lewis? It's one of those things that just transports yourself across time what he writes at the beginning of that book. I almost didn't need to read the rest. I'm like, I get what was a letter? Billy Nate suggests a screw tape letters to me, and so I have started reading it to the children.

But what was this letter? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with this. No, no, no, no. It's not a letter. They're talking about a series of conversations. At the beginning of the book that I got given, there's a thank you to J.R. are Tolkien. Right.

Now, for me, maybe... They're very close, very close friend. And my childhood, Tolkien is a big character. I read The Hobbit at a young age, then I read Lord of the Rings. It was phenomenal. It, like, it just, I never wanted it to end. So the fact that C.S. Lewis, who's a guy that, yes, I know who he is, but the fact that this controversial book that he wrote, he's giving thanks to the conversations Tolkien

and him had. I see. The C.S. Lewis was an atheist. J.L. Tolkien was a Christian. and C.S. Lewis ends up becoming a Christianian. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

But the screw tape letters is a fascinating story. And of course, a lot of what Lewis writes is, they're sort of, they're, they exist in imagination. Obviously, he's famous for the Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe series. People know those ones. The screw tape letters is basically, tells the story of the apprenticeship of a, of a, of a, of a demon. who's kind of a screw up. And so there's this one. He's not good.

He's not good at his mouth. And he's trying to guide this, this apprentice into trying to turn this, you know, this British young man against, against the enemy who for them is Christ, right? He's God. And so it's really, I mean, it's just a brilliant. Everything that C.S. Lewis does is lace with everything you'd want to see in a book.

There's history. There's philosophy. There's religion. There's humor. There's humanity. There's love. There's all of it. And it's just a it's a really fascinating. I won't ruin the ending for you, but the good guys win. Yeah. So it's a fascinating ending. My favorite part of that book actually I think might be the very start. Why I where Lewis gives a note to the reader, right? And he's like that. That's what I'm talking about. Because he says J.R.R. Tolkien. That's right. You don't like to me. Yeah. If you understand that. Yeah. It's it's like he's like, be careful. Because he says, I don't even know if what I've. You don't know if what I've. You don't know. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it figured out. You know what I mean? Because it's, it's this brilliant satire. So it's, it's maybe the most brilliant satire ever written. Or it's up there. Yeah. It's so, so, it's just brilliant. And people, you know, I think, you know, because of mere Christianity, Lewis doesn't get maybe as much, like, near Christianity is brilliant. Yeah. But he's seen more so even than Tolkien, I'd say, and more so than Chesterton as an author for the common man, which in my opinion is a great badge of honor. Yeah.

But really, like when you look at Lewis's intellectual work, his true intellectual work with at Oxford and stuff, he's unbelievably brilliant. Oh, yeah. Like unbelievably brilliant. Yeah. He really is. And I think that's why he could speak to the common man was because he was so smart. He was able to take those abstract, difficult concepts and, you know, spin them in such a way that anyone can understand. Yeah.

One of the things, one of my, I would say my favorite thing that he ever wrote, I'll just share this with you on this sort of C.S. Lewis is, um, there's a lot of, people who talk about Jesus and they want to say, well, yes, Jesus, I'll give it to you that he was an historical figure. There actually was a guy named Jesus. And yes, he was a, he was a, he was a philosopher. He might have even have been a prophet. Here, sorry, can I think I found it. Okay. Because we're all talking, dancing around the preface. He goes, I have no intention of explaining how the correspondence which I now offered of the public fell into my hands. There are two equal and opposite errors in which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence, the other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both

errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight. The sort of script, which is used in this book, can be very easily obtained by anyone who has once learned the knack. But disposed or excitable, people who might make a bad use of it shall not learn it with it from me. Readers are advised to remember that the devil is a liar. Not everything that the screw tape says should be assumed to be true, even from his own angle. I have made no attempt to identify any of the human beings mentioned in the letters, but I think it is very unlikely that the portraits say of F.R. Spike or the patient's mother are wholly just. There is a wishful thinking in hell as well as on earth. In conclusion, I ought to add no effort has been made to clear up the chronology

of letters number, I don't know what the number, 17, I think. appears to have been composed before rationing became serious, but in general, he diabolical method of dating seems to bear no relation to terrestrial time, and I have no attempted, I have not attempted to reproduce it. The history of European war, except in so many, as far as it happens, now and then, tamping upon the spiritual condition of one human being was obviously of no interest to screw tape. And so I just, what I was talking about is how he goes about the correspondence, and that all of us can tap into it.

and then he mentions magicians and different people who and to me it makes my my hair rise a little bit because I'm just like I know what he's talking about right there so he went to a dark place to write this book and when he was in that dark place he found who he calls screw tape yeah and we and if you've ever been there he called whatever he everybody's got a name for and and that's what the book is yeah and he's encouraging people not to do that right and and and he writes part of the preface for J.R.R. Tolkien, right? Because J.R. Tolkien, to J.R. Tolkien, the best way to drive out the devil if he will not yield to text of scripture is to jeer and float him for he cannot bear scorn. That was Luther. Anyway, just to add some context, because we're talking about the book, and I know if I'm sitting listening to this wherever, you're like, well, what did, what am I picking up the book now or what? And you should. It's an interesting read. It's an interesting dive, and it's not that long. But, you're like, you know, but, you know, and I'm going to, But there's more meat to it than just a, oh, this was some little story because he tells you right off the hop.

I'm not going to tell you how I got there because I don't think, you know, the wrong people have this, that's bad. And the right people have it is not great, right? There's also, I'll just mention for people who people are intrigued, there's a wonderful audio recording of it. Yeah. That was recorded by John Cleese. Really? And John Cleese, he captures all of the humor of C.S. Lewis, even though he's a Cambridge man. and of course the author was of the screwtee letters.

I didn't know that. Oh, good. Yeah, I think he recorded it in the 1970s. But what C.S. Lewis, I'm glad that you, that you interjected there because what C.S. Lewis is constantly doing in his writing is he's forcing the reader to choose. You cannot stand on the fence with C.S. Lewis. And so I was saying one of the most intriguing things he wrote was about, um, was about Jesus. And people who say, they want to say, yes, they want to be neutral.

And they say, oh, yes, you know, he was this and that. But he wasn't the son of. God and what Lewis says is well wait a minute you only have to you have to take one of two positions either he was the son of God which is who he said he was and he is that he's the son of God that he is the word made flesh as John as as John puts it in in the gospel or he's the greatest charlatan and liar who overlived you've got to make a decision there's no third option you can't just say oh yeah Jesus was some guy who lived in history.

And that to me is a great way of phrasing the idea of, I started out by saying, you know, this conversation would be piloted in Christ about what is truth. Well, one of the beautiful things about Christianity about the truth is it's always confronting you, right? You always have to make, you always have to make a decision about what's true and what's not. What does Jesus say to his disciples when he meets them? Follow me. From the very beginning, they have a decision. Now, those people had been chosen from the beginning of time, right? Before time.

They didn't know it, but they were all chosen to follow Christ. But they're faced with a decision. Follow me, right? And, you know, that's what the truth is constantly doing. We, those of us who are Christians, we, we see Christ and reality and truth is all part of one, one whole, right? There is no truth outside of of Christ. But you know, the idea of being confronted constantly by what is true, it actually ties into our entire conversation, right? For example, take the LGBTQ question. Well, is that true? Can a man become a woman? Or take the environmental question. Is CO2 really destroying the earth? Right? You know, are we really in a good and evil struggle? Or is this just politics, right? we're constantly being confronted by these questions.

And to read C.S. Lewis is really one of the best things people can do because you get to understand because he's constantly confronting you in this way all the time. You have to constantly make a decision. And I think he wrote, I'm not sure if he wrote it wrote deliberately in that way or whether it was inspired, but I find when I read C.S. Lewis, like for example, screw tape letters ask the question, well, is there such a thing as a demon? Like, is this real? What was your impression?

after reading it. So I already, for the listener, they already know my thoughts. Yeah. There are demons. Did you believe it before, did you believe in demons before you read that though? It was a very, it was a very eye-opening experience because I've talked a little bits of pieces of my journey through Ottawa and since there. And when I open up the page and he's got J.R. Token in there, which in my mind adds so much

credibility from my childhood, right? For other people, they may see that name and nothing comes of it. But for me, it's like, oh, that's interesting. and then he reads off, like, how he went there, and I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be a heavy book for me. Because, like, I, whether, I mean, yes, I just, I go, like, that book is, is, for me, a heavy book, I guess. I don't know. I read it, and I'm like, yeah, it's going on. And when you're saying you're being confronted by truth and everything else, you know, like, you know, I think it's a cowboy preacher, Josh Allen, who said,

When the devil can't get you, he makes you busy. And I think that now when I get like where I can't think anymore. Like I'm so flat out. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? All right. And then in the book, you know, they try subtle things. Okay, if this isn't working, then try this because this, you know, and whatever. And whether or not you can recognize that or not, that's what the book's laying out for you.

And to me, it's painting it very clearly. Now, that doesn't mean everybody who picks up the book will see the same thing for me. the same thing as what I saw. But for me, that's what I see in the book. It's painting exactly what's going on in my life very clearly. So that's what I think. Fascinating. Can I throw a question to Tanner?

Had to Leighton. Sean, you if you want to, let's just maybe you know, I feel like I've got a really, been really blast here to us be in a conversation with you gentlemen. And I've heard Pastor Doug Bainton from First Baptist Church here in town. I think I've heard him talk about CS Lewis. I think it's out of mere Christianity.

Yes. Along the argument you say, and I haven't heard for a lot of years, I tried to explain it to my kids. And now I have an opportunity to clarify it here today, without reading the book quickly, which I should on my own. But that discussion of you have to choose which one, if we agree that the Bible is a historical document,

if we agree that there was a man named Jesus that walked on the earth, then if we agree on those two, then we have to circle which one we're going to choose. I thought it was the L's. Like was it Lucifer, a lunatic, or the living God? Was there three L's options? C.S. Lewis's Trilemma. Yeah.

So you have to circle. Maybe he's a crazy man. Yeah. So he's a lunatic. Yeah. He was off his rocker. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Or he's Lucifer. He's here to deceive. Right. Or he's the living God. Am I correct in my understanding of that from the, okay, good. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. I remember hearing that and thinking, just stop trying to convince me.

That's what I remember. I remember hearing that. I didn't realize it was C.S. Lewis. Yeah. It's called C.S. Lewis's Trilemma. Yeah. Yeah. I think when I think when I got married, they put on a video, you know, we had to go through marriage, prep,

marriage, something in the Catholic Church. Anyways, it doesn't matter. We watched a video on that. And my brain just shut down. That's what it used to do to me. I don't want to listen. I do not care. Stop trying to ram this down.

And it's funny. Here we said. That's a great example of what Tanner was talking about, how he had the ability to take very, very high intellectual, as spiritual ideas, theological ideas, and bring them down. So dummy like me can understand that. No, I mean, you know, and that's really, I mean, that's, that's an example. The truth. is always like that. Yeah.

The truth is never complicated. Which goes to your, the truth is the truth. Well, and that's what Tanner actually does so well. Yeah. Every time you've come on a podcast. And by the way, shameless plug, he wrote a book that I read. You read the book? I did.

Along the same lines. There's a second one coming. Yeah. Yeah. That's better than the first. Uh, excuse me? I'm paying your one. For the audience, I got like this little tiny bookshelf forming in the podcast

to you know, people who've written books who've been on the show. Oh. I'm trying to work through them all. And I'm just like, well, I got a hole there. Obviously, he needs to be filled. You had him on your show and you didn't get him to talk about his book. It's true. What's the title?

The title is true Christianity. I wrote it during, actually during university. And then just coming out when the lockdown started. And it was, well, I started writing to think, to be honest. Like, I found that the more I write, the more I wrote and the more I write now, the better I think. There are so many thought. Which makes sense. Yeah, you have to.

You just, you must. And so I figured, why not, you know, killed two birds with one stone and write about my beliefs on Christianity to see what else comes up while at the same time writing the book that perhaps others could read. And so I wrote, I finished it, yeah,

I think right as the lockdown started kind of thing, right in that area, I just self-published it. But it's, yeah, it's been a blessing. And it just lays out the fundamentals of my faith, of Christianity. I enjoyed it very much, right? are recommended. Well, it's one of the things, you know, that I have a lot of people who listen,

who are not followers of Jesus or Christianity or anything. But one of the things they admire about that I've been told, you know, whether we're doing that right today or not, I don't know, folks. But, because, you know, we started with the protests, and then we've kind of graduated into something different. But that at times it just, it isn't preaching. You know, one thing that I've been, you know, and I, I, I'm careful not to pump your tires too high.

No, yeah, totally sure. Before they get on, you know. Absolutely. But one of the things that they say you've done. Right. That's true. Yeah. One of the things they said that is like, it doesn't feel like preachy. It just feels like it's, it's like historical knowledge from a book mixed with today,

and somehow you blend it together, and it's really cool. And like, one of the things that shocked me about the Bible when I started reading it is like, man, all this pertains to right now. Like, you can, you can, like, I'm just. And that's scary when you start talking about something like Daniel, which is what Tanner was doing today. That's an old book. I mean, or the oldest book in the Bible, I think, is Job, right? If you know the story of Job, right, this person is just beset upon, right?

Almost he's the unlucky guy. He's at the subject of a wager between, you know, God and the devil. And he has everything, has it all taken away to test his faith. That's the oldest book in the Bible. Didn't know that. Yeah, and but that is so, so many people identify with that. Right. They feel like, you know, before 2019, life was so good.

And it's all getting taken away from me, right? That people identify with that story so much, right? And we all go through that. We feel like, oh, you know, this isn't fair, right? Your kids say that. Oh, that's not fair, you know? You know, I got COVID. I lost my job, but you know, and I'm not saying it's necessarily people feeling sorry

for themselves, but. we've made a I think the one thing about about the that the Bible teaches that's different from what we learn in in the secular world is the secular world teaches us to crave comfort. And when you read the Bible, you understand very, very clearly that is not the natural state of humanity. That's not who we are. The Bible is a story of struggle. You must struggle. In fact, in fact, the word, the word, uh, Israel is means, it means he who wrestles with God, right? It's that that's the name that's given to Jacob.

He has this dream. He wrestles with his, he doesn't know if he's wrestling in an angel or a demon, uh, all night long. And then he becomes, right. Uh, so that's the, and that's the foundation of, of God's chosen people, right? They're given this new name. And that's what we're doing. We're doing all the time. We're struggling.

We're supposed to be struggling. We're supposed to be struggling to figure things out. get through the problems in our lives, right? There's always going to be more, more struggles. And that's really, I think that's the blessing of Christianity. Because Christ comes and says, okay, yeah, you're going to struggle. But guess what? I have something for you.

Again, I keep saying it's a blessing to see with you, fellas. I feel like I should have you on speed dial. So just, what I need a question. What is that? Phone a friend. It's great. All three of us have podcasts. But I was just talking last night,

Leighton, you and I were talking about a good friend of mine, it's a lawyer with the Justice Center. And of course, yesterday was the hearing for an injunction in Saskatoon, or sorry, Regina, I'm sorry, where they're trying to have an injunction to lift the new policies that were placed in Saskatchewan. So I was on the phone with Andre last night, who had just left the courthouse. He was saying exactly what you just said, that we've confused that life is about our comfort. And as soon as we're not comfortable, it's, dear, oh, God, why me? Why me?

He said it's not allowed at all. It's about our service and our struggle. And he was quoting scripture out of the Bible. I can't remember what it was. He said a book. Is it Job that like what's a scripture that would align with what you're saying? Oh, there's so many. I mean, what would be the best one to read that?

I need to read that. Well, I mean, the best one, I mean, I think the best example, maybe if you asked Tanner, he's, he's got, he's got the pedigree. But for me, it's when Jesus is in the garden. This is Jesus. Okay. So he's the God, he's the ultimate man. That's the example we're supposed to follow.

He's praying so hard all night that he's literally perspiring blood. Okay, he knows what's to come, right? And he says to God, he says, can I pass this cup? Can I not go through this suffering, right? And he's not just talking about being crucified. That would be really bad if you were like Spartacus, you know, up on the cross. He's talking about taking all the sin of all of humanity before, present and what's to come, right? that's that's not comfortable that's the example right that you know Christ is our example right

because he took all of that he took all of that for us to redeem us so the beautiful beautiful part of that for those of us who are believers is that we don't have to worry about who is going to be the next prime minister or the next hurricane because we know the battle is won so that would be my example if you ask me for the greatest example of someone dealing with struggle I would say that's that's my guy there you say Tanner who But there are so many in the Bible. Yeah, I think Layton's exactly right. I mean, you actually have God, literally God, coming to earth, to sinful earth.

If that isn't an example itself of suffering, I don't know what is. Like, could you imagine being eternal, being this eternal, the eternal deity, never having suffered, you know, living in heaven with your father from eternity past? That doesn't even make sense, right? Because it implies time. Anyways. And then coming to a fallen world where men hate you. Like, you're born from the womb from Mary. and the first thing you have to do is run

because here's Herod trying to kill you. And then all your life, you're brandished, the son of a woman who, you know, she's of course a Virgin Mary, but it would have been she had an affair. You know, he's a dirty child. And his whole life is filled with persecution and mocking. He's in the desert for 40 days, wrestling with Satan.

He's a humble carpenter. You know, he's got working hands because he's living on earth as suffering through the trials of men. You know, living as men ought to live. But Layton's right, right? Like both men are right because you look at comfort. It's like comfort just breeds apathy. Apathy is just, I mean, right?

The opposite of love isn't hate, right? It's apathy. It's this, you looked even at the lockdowns, right? When did people really start engaging in protests and so on? It's when it really started to hurt. It's like a little cattle prod. Once it started to pinch, then they noticed something wasn't so comfortable. And then it's like it's time to take action, which is good,

because it breeds something that's better than what we were enduring. So yeah, your example is good. It's great. Who am I kidding? Job, of course, is a great example. Like, the end of Job is so fascinating, right? Because the whole book, Job remains righteous. He doesn't curse God, but he certainly says to the Almighty, why have you done this?

If I was running it, it'd be different. And at the end of the book, in like Job 39 to 41, whatever it is, God's like, oh, he comes in this storm. And here's this omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being saying, fine, Job. He says, I'm going to question you. and you're going to answer me like a man. And he proceeds to speak this authoritative poem, actually, of questions saying,

where were you when the world was made? Surely you know, because you're telling me how to run my world. You're telling me how to run the universe, right? Who can put a, or can you put a cord through Leviathan through its nose and pierce its jaw with a hook? You know, it says, can you barter with it? You know, he gives this long set of questions to Job saying, you dare challenge me. You know, it's, I think it's a brilliant scripture

for anyone who says God's unfair, God's unjust, God isn't, you know, he's not righteous, et cetera, to read because God's like, fine, you want to accuse me of that? Tell me where you were when the world was made. Tell me where you were when this happened. Tell me where you were when the universe was created. And so on and so on. And the end of it, Job is so humbled.

He goes, oh, I've sinned because I've questioned eternity himself and who am I. So that's a brilliant book to read. Yeah. And, you know, one of the most profound passages I think scripture is Solomon's word in Ecclesiastes, which is there is nothing new under the sun. Right? The reason the Bible is applicable today is because it's vapor. It's just, it's a smoke. It's just, you know, the problems of ancient man are the same problems we have today.

Chesterton has a great line in one of his books. I can't remember where it is where he goes, you know, progressive ideas are really just old thoughts wrapped up differently. He's exactly right. Just really nothing like what Trudeau's doing, what leaders are doing, what Western leaders are doing and what they're purposing as these new and innovative ideas aren't new, but not innovative. They're just old ideas that have been refashioned and painted a different color to try and be fed to us again, you know? I, um, I hate to slowly wind the conversation down, but I actually, you know, it's been, it's been a long day and I have some things to go do with the family. So I want, with a couple minutes remaining to give final thoughts, I just wanted to update that

from the donations today, $250 is getting donated to the Legacy Center for, you know, allowing us to use their washrooms and being very hospitable to when it came to that. All the extra food that was there is being donated to the men's shelter. So I thought that was worth noting for the city of Lloyd here and for anyone that was there wondering, you know, because there was like, I don't know how many hot dogs left a lot. And so that's all going to the men's shelter. I think that's a nice job. gesture from the group of people that help put it on and everything else.

Now, I'm just going to walk around the room and we can wrap up. And the next time we do this, we'll make sure we do a roundtable. Maybe who knows? Maybe we'll try and do it once a month or something, where we invite people into the studio and we give the time it needs because I hate shutting down a conversation. But at the same time as it sits here, I'm like, well, as much as I want to talk till 10 at night, I've got some things that got to be done and taken care of. And so we'll start with Layton and work away clockwise around the room and wrap this up.

Yeah, I just want to say how grateful I am for being part of this day. I want to thank you, Sean, for inviting me to come and meeting so many wonderful people from this community. We need more hope in the world. I think that's what we've been talking about, hope and faith and belief in the things that are important to us, including children, including family and community in our country. And so I just think today was a blessing. It's a wonderful day to be here. And I'm also very grateful to be here to have this conversation with you,

gentlemen. So thanks very much. Yes, and I agree with Layton. It was so much fun today. I was so blessed by it. And I was so encouraged to see how many people on a Wednesday morning, you know, came out to support this righteous and worthy cause.

And so I was there, right? I was speaking because small fringe movement a small fringe minority isn't that so true like the whole of history these individuals in power are so concerned about a small fringe minority like the Pharisees are so concerned about 12 disciples or 11 disciples that are walking around a peculiar location in the world isn't that strange hey they're so powerful and yet these few men and women pose such a threat anyways yeah it was such a blessing to to be there today and to stand up for What's true? It's like, here we are civilized rebels, but only because the world itself is rebellious.

I like that. I'm going to put that on a shirt, civilized rebels. I like that. I like that. Yeah, that's a fun slogan. That's a fun little shirt. Okay. Here we go.

Canning your other for closing remarks. Well, thank you, Sean. It was really nice to sit and listen to both. I mean, I knew Tatter. I used to coach Tattered hockey. It's true. He did. A hundred years ago.

Was he good? Teter was, yeah. There was brother Hunter as well. I coached them. I've got 18 years of coaching. We know Sean was good. I coached Sean. as well. Did you? Yeah. When we. Yeah. I'm in that picture. Anyways, I would say for me,

my closing marks would be, I think what I learned today, the biggest thing I learned today is that when COVID was at its peak, you couldn't reason with people because there was so much emotion. And now that COVID is yesterday's news for now, you can actually sit down and talk to people. And right now, the heightened emotion and hate is over exactly what we talked about, the parental rights, LGBT plus and and what I notice is I have to I think there's an onus on all of us to be leaders in our own communities in our country to wind down the argument and just talk because when I approached those eight people who I would consider them to be reasonable people even though we're both in an environment that could have been very hostile if I just stay I'm not here to

argue I'm just here to have a coffee with you and we may leave in disagreement but tomorrow was going to be, you know, we had Ukraine, Russia, today's LGBTQ, the parental rights, tomorrow is going to be something else. So how do we, as on the, let's call it on the right, not get caught but our own silo of our argument is right and here's while we're right and here's while they're wrong, and it heightens sense and just leads to more arguing. We're not going to convince any of anything. How do we just say, let's keep the fabric of our communities together and know that there's probably somebody pulling strings or maybe it's just algorithms that want to tear us apart? and how do we set that aside and say,

I still love my fellow human being and I still want to care about you as a human and I'm willing to listen to your side even though we may leave and disagree at the end. So I've learned something about myself today. I think you just gave a perfect answer to my original question about tolerance. I think what you just said, that's it.

That's the definition, right? What you just said? Because we're not careful. We're going to lose this country. Yeah. Right? What are going to do? Guns to each other's heads?

You know, that's the option. I like the other one. Yeah. Well, thanks, boys. for doing this and coming in and I don't know certainly for coming out this morning but you know giving me an extra couple moments of your time and sitting in the studio I'm serious I think one of the epiphanies I've had sitting in here I'm like man this is I mean we're all sitting in the area and certainly there's others that would be interesting to have in the group with

different backgrounds and and whether it's it happens once a month or something but it's always good to have a little bit of a roundtable discussion and let other people meet that come on the podcast, you know, because there's so many different minds. I get to interact and everything else. So thanks again for doing this. Appreciate you guys being here and certainly coming in the studio after. Thank you, Sean. Thanks.

Okay, folks, that is the end of it. Appreciate you tune in. Hopefully, enjoyed having the boys in studio. This episode is brought to by Calrock with new used and refurbished oil and gas equipment in stock. Cal Rock is your best bet when it comes to finding equipment

that fits your needs and is within your budget. go to calrock.ca, and that's located here in Lloydminster, folks. All right, we'll get out of here, and tomorrow's some Star Wars with Tom Luongo. Until then.