Shaun Newman Podcast - #515 - Nick Von Dubs

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Nick Von Wackerbarth a.k.a. Nick Von Dubs hosts the VonDubCast and is a stand up comedian. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast Patreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

This is Leighton Gray. My name's David John Parker. This is Andrew Lotton. This is James Lindsay. This is Jonathan Peugeot. This is Tannin today. This is Sean Buckley. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast.

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday. Hope everybody's weekend was, well, I hope you got up to a few things. On this side, we had U7 evaluations and first U-9 practice. So hockey is well underway in the Newman household, but nobody wants to hear too much about that. How about we get to today's episode sponsors, Canadians for Truth? They got this guy named, you've heard of this guy. Peter McCullough?

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For more information, visit them in Hancock, Petroleum. DatC. He hosts the Von Dubcast and is a stand-up comedian. I'm talking about Nick Von Dubbs. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today, I'm joined by Nick von Duff.

So, sir, thanks for making the tour east, I guess. Yeah, a little bit of an eastern trip. I like it. I like it. This is my favorite place to go in the east. This is about as far as I like to go, really. Stop it here. How things have been?

Oh, I've been never better, never crazier. Life has taken a bunch of turns since I've been on here last. I don't even know if I'd started comedy by the time we did our last conversation. But if I had, I had just gotten to the very, you know, first couple doors you get through. And it's such a interesting. controlled process for an artistic venture of how much they want you to do step by step that I'm now just kind of feel like I'm fully in it. I was calling myself a comic for a long time, but now I'm running my own shows. I'm getting booked on certain things due to your actual skills,

not people just giving you a shot actually proving yourself. It's a cool little area to be, and I'm pretty happy with life right now. Well, I'm, um, you were definitely started the last time I was here, or the last time you were here, sorry. I mean, it's been a while since we've sat down and tratted. I should have looked before when the last time we had a conversation. I tell you what we got time. It's called a podcast for reason, folks. Let's just pull it up.

When was the last time Nick was on the podcast? Let's just see this. You know, the guests or the audience want to know this anyways. Yeah, they'll probably just listen to it before they started this one, I'm sure. And if they haven't, they're going to go pause this and they're going to go back and listen to that one. It's funny. You know, you say that. But when I used to listen to like religiously rogue in every, I don't know, second day or whatever,

anytime a guest said that, I'd be like, wait, you've been. on before and then I go back and I look it up and I go listen the first one too so Nick was on back on 288 July 13th 2022 so it's been a year yeah it's been over a year I must have just just started comedy then I think that would have been like a month in so in in a year's time a little over a year's time you've done stand up a hundred times you were telling me before we started this you've been on stage now a hundred times roughly I'd probably say so yeah yeah think about think of how big you know when you talk about when I look back at a year of how many episodes I've done, you know, and it's well over 200 now in a year, which is, I don't know how to put

that into context and everything else. But when you've been on stage, you know, you were saying, oh, I've been on stage more than most people in Canada. I'm like, I have not as much as Nick Fondubbs right now. Yeah. And there's two ways you can look at it. How many times have you been on stage? Like, probably 100, I would say, like, that would be in that range.

But then it's how much time have you done on stage? And that's where I've really started to separate was it's tough to get your hours in the game in five minute intervals. And that's what's available to when you first start comedy is five minute spots. If you get a 10 minute spot, that is huge, right?

And it's like getting two spots than one. But what I started doing was running my own show. And I started at probably six months in the comedy. I started a small bar show. Still run it. It's every Monday,

7.30 at Sherlock's Pub on campus. It's a free show. You come in. But with that, you're on stage, way more than five minutes. You probably do 10 minutes off the top. And then in between each comic you're coming up,

you're doing a little bit, you're hosting, right? And then I started to see the progress. because that is guaranteed stage time. I'm not just relying on going to shows every week and hopefully I get pulled on a draw, right? And that's how you get your stage time when you start.

You barely ever get booked. You just show up to these shows that have draws on them. You compete with 10 other comics to get your name pulled out of a bucket to get that five minutes, but that was guaranteed. And then I started this latest show that I was telling you a little bit about. And that show starts at 8 and it can go tell 2 in the morning, go till 3 in the morning, go till 5 in the morning. And then I'm on stage for 9 hours.

And you think about comics that started comedy, they might not get nine hours of stage time in their first year of comedy. But now I get that every week on top of my other show. And that's when I've really started like I feel like I've kicked just into high gear just lately because of that. And the comfortability that comes with it, the belief in yourself. It would take 108 shows of five minutes of peace to get nine hours and you're getting in one. You're doing the Beatles thing. You're doing what I'm doing.

I'm trying to. Yeah. I'm trying to. Yeah. I think you know what I'm talking about the Beatles. They go over to like Amsterdam. I forget in the story. Germany or something.

Yeah. And they just play and they got to play for an ungodly. amount of time where there's no way any musician would ever want to sign up to do that, except that's how you learn, you know, at half the time, people probably aren't even listening anymore. So you just start seeing what works and what pulls people back in. And pretty soon you're like, oh, crap, what the heck is going on here? I think I found something.

Yeah. And I think it's a, no, it's probably a little bit more similar, but an aspect of it between the difference between comedy and music is, with music, it's about reps of just like doing it. It doesn't really matter how good the show is, right? Like if you're performing to two people at a bar or sold out bar, it's essentially you're doing the same thing. For comedy, it's way different depending on the how good the show is. Like I went down to Austin a few months back in August and I was really, really, really disenfranchised a little bit of like what's going on down there. And at the highest levels, that's where it's happening.

You see the highest level talent. But if you're a young guy starting out, sure, there might be a hundred. There's always these people talking about. There's 100 open mics a week in Austin, right? It's this mecca of comedy. But I'm going to say 95 of those open mics are to no crowd and just to comics in the back. And you don't really get much better. You don't learn how to work a crowd, how to play with them.

When you're just performing to comics that are sitting in the back wanting to see you fail, like you're getting the reps, but they're not real reps. And then you look at Eminton. I'm like, man, people get way better here. Like the bottom level of Austin was just garbage. I was like, I can bring 30 different comics from Eminton and they would smoke these guys. But it's because in Emerton, yeah, there's not. 100 mics a week, but there's a bunch of really solid one, and it's inclusive enough.

Everyone will welcome in it. You can get on them, right? Like maybe not every show every week, but if you keep showing up, you'll get some time in front of some decent audiences and that's when you grow. Seeing all that is just like, okay, why can I build great shows a week where I'm giving people not only stage time, but really good stage time in front of crowds every week. And that turns into me, busting ass spending sometimes upwards of like eight to 10 hours a week, just messaging people on Instagram, telling me about the show and putting my name behind it.

I promise if you come out to the show, it will be the best show you'll see in Eminton. And I now have done it enough times that I'm confident in saying that. And I've seen every show in Emmington. I know what we bring. And I get to hear what the audience says on their way out every time we do these shows

and they're just blown away. Like, I didn't even know that's what comedy could be. Right? Like, I'm coming back for sure. And it's exactly that. It's the Beatles method. It's kind of listening, well, listening to the ungodly amount of podcasts

I did over that time of all these comedians and people like Joe Rogan talking about what you need to do and how you need to do it. Another big inspiration is a guy like Joe Coy who started out. He's a big comedian, huge. Sells out theaters now. When he started, he couldn't get in in any of the clubs. So he'd rent his own venues, bus to ask to put seats in there and got his own stage time. He was headlining his own shows quite early on.

Just said, well, screw you guys holding keys and jingling keys to give me an opportunity. I go create my own. And I've just taken that, which I already did with the podcast because, you know, I started podcasting well before I ever got the balls to do stand-up. But it's that same mentality. Just go make it special. Believe in yourself. Don't listen to anybody when they tell you, oh, that's stupid.

That won't work. Okay, watch me. And then you prove it to them. And then people get on board, and it pissed a lot of people off. Still has pissed a lot of people off. A lot of the comics don't like what I did. But now they're getting on board because I have something to offer. And there's all these different political aspects that come with a venture like that

where there's a lot of vulnerability and people putting their soul on the stage, right? it breeds that insecurity and it can get people wound up and some interesting things happen. But I don't know, I just try and put the blinders on and keep going forward and just believe in myself and what I can do and that I've already, that's another, that's another thing too. I already took the leap to pursue podcasting full time. I left a job that I could have done. I'm already in with both feet. I'm well in the water.

And I think that pissed a lot of people off too, just see me coming with that attitude right off the hot. Because I think for the first couple years of comedy, you're supposed to just kiss the ring and do, what people say you can do. Don't create your own thing. No, you got to struggle like we all struggled. We all went through this. We got made fun of. We got held back.

You have to too. And I just have no time for that at all. Well, isn't that? I tell you what? Done, folks, we're going, let's go find our thing and let's go after. It's funny. I listened to you and I'm like, yeah.

I have, this is my view of on the von dubs, okay? Because we all have our, our different stages, I would say. And I put you in the same stage as, or not the same stage, the same group as Drew Weatherhead. Yeah, I have this really, really weird seat, which is super cool. So I get to sit across from you, I get to listen to you. And once upon a time, I don't know how long ago we first started talking.

What was that? My first 100 episodes, maybe? Yeah, probably. Like, and you think I'm all over 600 now? I mean, you'll be like 515, but with mashups with everything, it's like, it's a crazy amount of podcast time, of chair time. But one of the things I admire about yourself, and I put Drew Weatherhead in the same book,

is like by doing solos, by doing where you talk to the audience and you just kind of like lead them on this little journey and everything else, is when I first sat across from you out like a long time ago, there's a young kid. And I'm not saying I haven't figured out. I definitely do not.

But I was like, that's a young kid. Like we'll see how this progresses from, right? And then every time we run into each other, I'm like, oh, he's just, he just went up another, I don't know, is it another step or is it another seven steps? It doesn't matter. Because every time I run into you, I'm like, man, this guy's got, this guy's got a little bit of something there. And I think more and more people are starting to see it. I could be wrong.

And I think that's really cool. And the guy for me that said something very similar was Tanner Appocate, who you've had on your podcast, big giant of a man, used to do Jutsu with him for my short little time in Jiu Jitsu. And he told me, he's like, you know, I remember when you were talking about the podcast. And he's like, yeah, we'll see if you make it. We'll see if you actually are going to do what you're saying, you're going to do and whatever. And then he goes, I don't have to eat my words because I'm watching you right now. And I'm going like, holy shit.

Like he was legit when he said, but he went in and put all the work in and now look at some of the names he's had on or some of the success he's garnered and everything else. And I hear what you're talking about with a with a, you know, with a because I hear, I'm like five minutes. Like, man, imagine having your life be dictated by the what gets pulled out of a hat. I'd already be irritated. I'd be like, okay, well, how can I circumvent this so I can get better? And even in Austin, performing in front of nobody is better than never getting to perform. For sure. But what you're talking about sounds, well, I don't know, it has me interested.

I'm like, geez, this sounds, like this sounds cool. Like, it sounds like something that we need to hear about, you know, like a guy, if he's in Emmington, should be stopping in to check it out just to see. You never know. Maybe you've got, I keep saying, you know, with the Tuesday mashup going, on the road. And listen, you talk about comedy. I'm like, oh, I may have bit off more than I can chew.

I was too late now. I'm going to go have fun. Yeah. But it might be catching lightning in a bottle. Might be seeing a tailfire. You keep saying, well, it ain't no tailfire. So if it ain't no tailfire, it's got to be something that I'd be interested in seeing. And if that's the case, there's probably a huge chunk of this audience.

Oh, for sure. That there are people around the, the, Minton area that are looking for things they would enjoy. And you're talking about one of them then. Exactly. And when I said that was specific to the second show I started, where, Sorry. I don't think we've had, there's been shows that are different levels, and every time we hit a new level.

That's the new expectation for myself, right? If we, I remember the first show we did, it was like, wow, that was a very special show. We can do better. Second one was even better. Third one, we knocked it out of the park. Fourth one, yeah, still, like, I would still put it on, on, uh, probably if you go a full year of, of shows in Emmington, still be up there in the top ten of the shows for that year, right? Like, it was still a very high level show, but it took a one step back, and that was a failure.

to me. But to the audience members, like, if you would have pulled the audience after that show, they'd say, that was amazing. That was so cool. I can't wait to come back, right? They loved it. But I've held that standard for myself. And I make sure, that's why I say it's never a tailspin. It's never a dumpster fire. Like, what we put on in the comics we bring in on a Thursday show is magic every week. Right. Like, sure, it can achieve even new heights. We can break through ceilings and put on even crazier shows than even we've done. But it's never a bad show. My bar show on Mondays, that is just, you know, it's a free show.

You walk in, it ends up being if it is, you know, if there's a great crowd in the bar of that night, it's a great show. Sometimes you're performed to six people. Sometimes there's some tail spins. There's some, there's some trainer X there. Well, you get what you pay for, right? Exactly.

But now at this point, I'm good enough at what I do that I can host a show. Okay, we're performing to six people. Yeah, the comics don't have that much fun, but I go into it with the energy that, like, I'm going to make this entertaining for you. Yeah, it might not be the wildest, craziest comedy show of all time just because comedy really,

lies on energy and what you what the comics can get out of a crowd is what they can give back right or it's an all dynamic if you have a comic that comes out to two people and they're way over energy and just being way more dominant it's weird it's not funny it's like why does this guy do it it feels unnatural we've all been to um i was going to say a movie right like a like a premiere of a movie or you know some big blockbuster film yeah and if there's three people in the audience don't get me wrong it's a great movie but there's little in the atmosphere there to make it like an experience that you remember. Yeah.

When you go and probably have a movie or two that stick out, and it is jarred. Like I mean, there's people munching on popcorn, and they're not being irritating, they're just watching the movie, and it's packed, and they're all laughing at the same things. And, you know, there's a, like, you can feel that. And that's what makes going to the theater over watching it in your house so much better. I can just imagine sitting in one of the rows for Dave Chappelle and being like, this is unreal. Like, this is unreal. And I just keep thinking, like, Canada's this, like, we're almost, we don't even have,

we haven't even uncovered what we're capable of when we come to a lot of the different things. I'm sure there's lots of hilarious people on everything else. But we are the wokenest country. Oh, yeah. Under the sun. And the comedy is right up there. It is some of the wokenest comedy we'll ever see. Because, yes, Canada is woke in general, right?

Like we're one of the most progressive countries in the world. But we also are very controlled when it comes to comedy. There's no opportunity in comedy. Unless you make it yourself, you are completely gated by CBC just for last. And they all hold all the cards. And they have a certain type of comedy they want. And without even realizing it, it's one of the most shocking things to me is how out of touch everybody in Canadian comedy is with how much they censor themselves and how much they,

tailor their comedy to the very few opportunities that are all controlled with the same people, right? And that's why it's so homogenous for a lot of the time. And you still have, talent obviously separates people out, right? Where you have like the most talented people and the worst people, but they're all kind of playing in the same sandbox. And there's all this different place over here that's really funny. And people are kind of itching. You hear some jokes about because nobody will touch it. And then you have guys that are brave and they go out into that thing. And the crowds love it. They're in for a lot of times. A lot of times they don't.

You go try and do some of the jokes I do on White Avenue. People are trying to throw boots, boots and tomatoes at you. Which one of the jokes you try? Oh, dude. When I first started because, you know, me, I was like hugely impacted by COVID. That was one of the biggest reasons I started the pocket, just seeing things not being right, doing my own research and just going after it. If you do any joke about the vaccines, about COVID, about anything, it is complete

butthole snapshot room pinches rate up. And you can joke about, I'm going to say there's like, there's two non-woke topics that are, that are touching. And you can pretty much talk about anything in Canada, right? In Canada, residential schools and miscarriage abortion for whatever reasons, those two, just crowdwise, it is a tough venture. And if you're funny enough, you can do it. You can joke about anything, right?

But as soon as you go into anything, like on like the woke subjects, not a chance. You cannot fly. If you come to my crazy shows where an audience and it's set up that well, you can make it happen and you won't get in trouble for it. But if you go try and do those jokes on White Avenue, not a chance. So don't talk in about men being women and all that.

No, no, no, no. Nobody makes it. You won't hear a joke about it in Canada. You won't. How is that possible? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, Sean. And it's like wild to me that like nobody end up.

I literally just interviewed a lady who is the world, well, she holds one of the world records in Canada for weightlifting. And of course, then there's Anna, Ann, Andress, or whatever, man-turned woman who's destroying it. Destroying the entire category. It's just like, this should be a comedian's gold. Okay, and I shouldn't say there's nobody, but there's like purple, like one of the guys I always shout out and I think is doing an amazing job with this is a guy named Uncle Hack and he started Danger Cats. Oh, yeah, yeah.

A long time and now he started comedy. He does these jokes. He is like, he doesn't get the respect he deserves because, like, people think of like, oh, he's just that, like, they kind of put him in a box and like, that's all he does. And, like, he's the only one doing it. And it's like, why do you have to be like the Danger Cats comic to make jokes? But shouldn't we all be able to joke about anything? Like, doesn't that tell you? What drives me more wild than the fact that it isn't there is that people don't even see that there's something there.

Like, that doesn't shock them. Like, I'm always like this. You think that's just Emmington or is this wired in Emmington? I think this is all of Canada. I think Emmington has one of the best scenes in Canada, and even in spite of that is super funny because we have a lot of great stage time. There's a lot of great comics that have given back and has created.

I see when I see people come in from Vancouver, Toronto, they have those same issues where they're talking about the same things, but they come from a weaker scene and they have way weaker comedy. You get surprised everyone's small. There's great people everywhere that are just the top of the talent, the top 1%, they're always going to excel. They're always going to be noticeable. But you get like the mid-level,

guys that come from Vancouver that are popping in. A lot of the times you see, this is the other thing, too, they'll buy some followers and they might come in with 10,000 followers and the whole scene goes, ooh, look at this guy. He's coming in. He's a big deal on Instagram. And they suck. They're terrible. It's like wild to me.

And I couldn't give a shit about followers. You know this, me and you have been having this argument for years. Yes, we have. Just become undeniable. It doesn't matter when you fall. Eventually those will come, right? No matter what stands in your way, if you get good enough at the skill of podcasting, which is where our conversation, but now I just translate it also to, to, just

stand-up comedy, almost even more so for stand-up comedy. Nothing will stand in your way. It doesn't matter if it's comedy or podcasting, whatever your venture is, if you become undeniable. That's what it is. People would be like, that's talent. Look at Oliver Anthony. Right?

I mean, that's, that right there is undenialized. You're like, man, that's something. Right. But this is where I'm saying. That's where I come back to is this, I'm chasing undeniable. Everyone else is chasing just for last CBC, Winnipeg Comedy Festival, like these types of things where. you're not chasing what's funniest to you anymore.

You're not, you're not chasing that pure art form of like, how can I kill the hardest year? How can I succeed in this business of stand of comedy? And I just think that is, that is poison for the actual venture, if you really care about becoming undeniable, having anything to distract you,

anything on the totem pole higher than just undeniable talent, undeniable killing ability on stage. If anything is on that top spot, if it's followers, if it's this festival, you'll never become that. You have to, it's, it's like making the NHL. If you're not doing everything, if you're not doing the off-ice trains, if you're not putting that goal of being the best hockey player you can, right?

It's like, okay, maybe this will be a way to put it into sports terms. It's like if people were at maybe the, like the Bantam level, and they started like, instead of, they started, instead of doing extra off-ice trainings or going to hit a hockey school somewhere, they started worrying about like their NIL deal for college and like how they're going to monetize. stuff and it's like you're not even you're not even the right headspace you're not even the right headspace to become that like yes that is something you probably

have to worry about and that's what I'm saying like you can't be successful in coming without thinking about followers and without thinking about the opportunities you can get but if that ever takes precedent over that real true thing you will never get there or you'll need to have a realization you will be hamstrung all along the way until you have the realization put it in the right speed and now you're at least working towards it and even if you keep it at that top totem pole and you do all the right things, that doesn't guarantee you're going to make it.

That just means you have a chance. I look of all these amazing comics I see, I just said, Emmington has one of the strongest scenes, I think is one of the best scenes in Canada. If you want to be to actually bet my money on it, bet my, bet my mortgage,

I'm throwing that money on me and maybe two other guys that are actually going to make it, make it, of like, not saying they can't make money being a comedian, that is a very different goal. Right? It's like you could play professional hockey and, you know, play in Europe and make money and support yourself to your four years old.

That's a different goal than being a superstar in the NHL. But if you want to talk about those people that are pursuing being an actual star, not a lot of people are going towards it. And I don't know what goes on in their heads if they think they are, if they think they aren't, if they've just accepted that'll never be that. And I'm just pursuing making enough money to do comedy full time. And that's a great admirable goal, which is super cool. And very few people get to do it.

And I don't want to talk down to that. That's just not what I'm pursuing. That may be where I end up. That might be just the capital. my skill level and that might be all it is and hey maybe that is the true reality of it but i'm going to believe that i'm connor macdavid until the day that reality gets shot out of my hands right i don't know hard work beats talent almost every day of the week right i don't mean that uh well actually no it it just does yeah there's super talented people out there that are lazy as shit oh yeah and they just

never get anywhere oh yeah and so when when you watch what you're doing you know from afar because i mean obviously we uh we talk but i mean like you know it's funny life just happens and and you kind of watch another guy and go, oh, man, he's, you know what, he's giving her. Oh, yeah. And one of the things about giving her is, like, you're not waiting around to see if people like it or dislike it. You're just doing. And what happens when you start doing is you get better. And eventually people are going to roll into Nick von Dubbs if they haven't been already doing that.

I'm like, who the hell was that? Yeah. What is he talking about? You know, one of the advantages I think we all have who went through COVID and saw things for what they were. is comedy you I remember having a comedian from emminton forgetting his name doesn't matter remember having them in for last year's comedy show uh last year's christmas party great comedian like really funny but what we got talking about before was uh quotas on comedians out and just for laughs and how you know yeah how are things going oh good but i'm just never good enough because you know

they only can allow three white comedians and i'm like isn't that fucked and i remember being in him being like uh uh and my wife is swatting me on the arm like Sean, I'm like, come on. Like, they're only going to allow three white comedians,

and I'm totally, I don't know if that's what the number is. Yeah. You get the point of the conversation. 100%. And I'm just like, come on. Like,

don't we want just funny? I could care less if it's five, whatever people. I could care if it's five women. If they make you laugh and you want to be in the seats, that's what I want. I don't want to show up

to any comedy show and realize that they've, they've, they've hand selected to fit quotas. Yeah. Because then we're not getting the best. I just want the best. And if you can't even

see that and I'm not willing to talk about that, I guess where I'm going to is the lovely thing about where you're sitting is you see all that and you can go, that's fucked. And as soon as you can start pointing out obvious things, that's funny. I mean, it's just whether or not they're going to allow you to talk about it. That's a completely different thing. That's where you're talking about like, well, then I just start my own show so I can talk about it. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And it's even worse than that shot. Not just as it, you know, quotas on that is everyone thinks of JFL is this big Canadian thing, but it's all American eyes, right? And they just have to put enough Canadian people on it to hit their quotas that way.

So just for laughs isn't Canadians. It is largely... It's all America. Like, it used to, it started off grassroots. It was a very Canadian thing, but now it is completely overtaken, right? Like they have, you know, people say like, oh, I got JFL new faces, which is this big thing in comedy. It's like, oh, no, you got Canadian new faces, right?

Like, very different. You're not competing with all like the American guys. And then within that. right so now you're in this complete subset where you're not even playing with the big dogs you're not even on the same show as like the actual big you know just for uh just for last new faces like the american side of it and then okay say they got six spots for it and yeah they got quotas they need this many women this many this many this many color right i just have no time for any of that and that's why i don't the degree of separation between what comedy should be as a meritocracy and what this actually turns into with all the quotas and stuff added in it's so far far from skill base that I don't know why you pursue it. That's what gets them into trouble when people put that as a high priority that they care about if now they're aiming for that. You have to just aim for things that are going to be, like, I have no problem with people

chasing opportunity. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying if the opportunity forces you to be something different or to tailor yourself to them, you don't want it. What you want is the opportunities that are given to the funniest people, right? Like getting on, uh, well, you're literally sitting on a show where I just stuck to who I am. That's pretty much it. I mean, am I sitting here saying it's the best show ever?

Nope. You should be. But I am sitting here going, I haven't changed. Actually, when people get really upset with me, I'm like, I just haven't changed. I just, I don't get what's going on. And if we can't talk about it, that's the problem. And what you're talking about in comedy is there's a big, giant problem. And comedians, by looking at it from afar, aren't allowed to talk about it.

Right. And here's the thing. It's like, that's what I'm trying to navigate is like, am I crazy that I'm really the only one that sees this problem? Because I came in so fresh, right? But there's such a dynamic of, this is the situation that it's been for a very long time. And a bunch of people got through that

and made it out the other side and got opportunity now. And they very much feel like everybody else needs to go through that same thing. And if anybody cuts the line or if anybody tries to find works around, they just have this reaction to it. And I don't even know if they realize that's what's going or if they paint some other picture, right? the ego's great at that of giving you another reasoning path that you can follow

that doesn't make you feel shitty, right? I don't know. I don't know if I'm the crazy one that sees it like this. I think so. There's always been like trend centers or, you know, guys who create their own path. I think of McElmore. I don't know if that's the right guy to think of.

But I mean, like, he was an independent who came through. I think of McDonald, Tom McDonald's, right? Like everybody, you look at Oliver Anthony. Now I'm sticking straight. to music right now. Yeah. You probably know the comedian's better than I would.

It's just like, nobody can see it until it's done. And then all of a sudden they're like, oh, why didn't I see that? Yeah. Because you gotta have a little bit of like stubbornness, doggedness, willing to go where most people would never even dream to go. Yeah. And then enjoy it when it's, it doesn't go exactly according to plan. And then one day you pop out on the other side, I assume, and you're like, yeah, I guess I'm here.

I didn't realize, you know. Yeah. the things that, pulling it to my side, I was telling you in the car, right, what's the big thing these days? I'm like, well, closing in on a million downloads for 2023. So the audience, if you're listening to this, we're like 200 and some thousand away, which sounds like a giant number. But when you realize you're 700 and some thousand into this year, it's not that bad. It's like, actually, like, this could be doable. Like a million in a year. When I first set that goal, I thought, there's no way, right? And yet, I feel like with the listener and sharing and all these,

great things, it's possible. And that has come by doing things that nobody else would think to do. Being told, don't bring that person on. Please do not do that. You're going to railroad your career by doing this. And instead, that's been the complete opposite. Right. Now the CRTC is putting in laws to make sure that the guy like Sean Newman doesn't get to do that anymore.

Pretty much. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. Oh, man, there's so much there. I want to jump into, man. Like, first of all, before we go any further, I just got to say, as someone that has dedicated their entire life, Tupac. also stand up now, but the first thing was podcasting and has it's so hard for people

to understand what those means. Look, what you just said when you told me that that was the big goal pursuing a million podcast and you have X amount to go and that seems like a big number. My thought was, holy shit, you hit 700,000 like that is for people to wrap their mind around what an accomplishment that is like there's probably I'm going to go to them a guess and say maybe one or two if that podcast in Canada they get those kind of numbers

that aren't like a true crime or like someone like you bringing who you are to a podcast in the actual vein of what a podcast should be not people using the podcast medium to do true crime shows it's pretty much just taking TV show using the podcast format right

or like history shows that's not really a podcast to me nobody's doing that and that is just amazing I just want to take a moment to give you your flowers because I don't think thank you

yeah just just as a podcast, to understand how difficult that is and like to hear those numbers and how much, I know how much effort I put into mine, how much love and like the numbers I get to see that.

That is just absolutely amazing. Good for you. First of all. Now to CRTC. Um, yeah. It's one of those things showing where like you, uh, I feel like this is one of the first times in the last couple years

because there's been so many times when you hear something coming down the pipe and you go, that'll never happen. Like that's just just crazy. this is never but now we've been through enough where you go so here's like oh yeah that's going to happen like I've done it I've learned my lesson enough to go that's too crazy it'll never get through it'll never end it'll never end's like oh no that's going to happen now what's the effect going to be right and my mind goes to a couple different places

personally well my because people have asked me you know I'm sure you got a million messages the first day that came out or whatever right I did too and my first gut instinct and you know guys give me a little bit of forgiveness because this is just my actual first thing that popped into my head they go Oh, if that's the case, then I'll, you know, if the CRTC wants to start sticking their nose in, I think I'll just start every stand-up set I do for the next couple years with, you know, the CRTC or a bunch of baby rapers and all this, just go so off the fucking handle just against them to prove the hilarity of them trying to actual sense to just go right back at them.

And I think what we'll see, I hope, this is again, this is my hopeful side of it, is that people will stand up. But I've had that hope so many times over the last couple years of like things. this will be the push everyone will stand up and then you find yourself standing up and you're kind of alone you know what I mean or you feel alone and they make you feel alone what I really think is is they're going to push it through it'll be so slow and so uh clunky clunky and just like under the surface so covert with what it is of like oh people will feel like nothing's changing but they're just getting the the hooks in again I think the undeniable of what we talked about about at a certain

point it doesn't matter if you've got things as long as you can put it out somewhere on the internet right like because what that attacks is going to be the way they've laid it out is they're going right to the source of the people who host the podcast they're going to go to the spotifies they're going to go to apple they're going to go to youtube and they're going to go to who else would make over 10 mil rumble rumble maybe oh yeah they would make but do they make it on podcast i don't know it depends how they how they go after i don't know if it regulates rumble because that's where does rumble not operate off of blockchain though Sean I don't know if you're familiar with that

because I think there might be a way where even if they wanted to come and get that information they could hide behind the fact that it's all on chain and they don't have access to that information because it's decentralized I don't know but it could be rumble too but all I go to think is that there's always places you could put your podcast and it's just adding more barriers and more censorship to how easy it is to succeed in this realm,

but it doesn't ever shut off the tap completely. And I think that's what they're going for, and that's what they would do if they could get control over to turn the tap off completely. But I don't know, I feel like people will just keep finding a way. I feel like that's what podcasts are a little microcosm of the internet, like the early days of the internet,

and it'll just find a way. That's what my gut and my heart tells me is that no matter how much they push, we'll find a way to put them somewhere where people can still, access them. I don't know. I also haven't looked into it super deeply. I'm, if you give me, I'm just, this is

where I need, Jamie. Yeah, get Jamie in here. Get Jamie in here. I'm doing a little Googling. Yes. See what, see what it actually says. See what the actual rules are. This is where you need twos, baby. Isn't this his realm? He knows all these things. knows who, who's doing what? Okay, I'll pull it across here. Okay, so

September 29th Canadian radio, television and telecommunications, blah, blah, blah. CRTC launched its first public consultations in May 12th, 2020, after thoroughly examining all evidence on the public record, including over 200 interventions. The CRT is issuing its first two decisions. First,

the CRT is setting out which online streaming services need to provide information about their activities in Canada. Online streaming services that operate in Canada offer broadcasting content. That would be Rumble. Yeah. And earn 10 million or more in annual revenues will need to complete. a registration form by November 28th, 2023. So November 28th is when they have to complete an online registration form.

If you click on the registration form, it's like, here, I'll download it and then I can pull it up. It's like, it's so nonchalant. It's like, it's how they get the, what are you even upset about? 100%. It's two weeks to flatten the curve. That's all this is. It's Martin Bailey arguments, baby. I've been talking about this for years.

And then the second, the CRT is setting conditions for online street. streaming services to operate in Canada. These conditions take effect today and require certain online streaming services to provide the CRTC with information related to their content and subscribership. The decision also requires those services to make content available in a way that is not tied to a specific mobile or internet service. And then they're going to continue to do more hearings and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So like, you go, my first thought, my immediate first thought.

Yeah, I want to hear your first thought. My immediate first thought was, I don't make 10 million. This is not going to affect me. But it's not coming after you. But it's not coming after me. It's coming after the choke points. It's coming after where my, so I use YouTube to like really put this in my brain on how severe this could be. When I was on YouTube, you know, to start making any type of money on YouTube, you have to have a thousand people subscribe to your channel, which, you know, isn't that much.

And then the same token is a lot. It's a ton. Okay. Then you have to have so many hours of viewership. When I do podcast, it takes like 10 viewers and after a week I got it. Like it isn't that big of a deal. That wasn't the big because people actually watch my content. Yep. So then you get through those hoops and then you can you can start to monetize. Okay. So it took me, oh God, it was like a year and a half, if not two years to finally hit a thousand subscribers. I was like holy, like holy here. Okay, maybe I'm going to start to earn like $3.00. a video, who knows. But it was money. And then overnight, they just, boom, it was gone. And why? Because I'd had Peter McCle on.

And he'd said something about vaccines. And I had to ask myself, am I going to start self-censoring? You know, maybe the businessman and me should have been smarter and been like, why don't we start on YouTube? I've seen Viva Frey do this tons. And then transition over rumbles.

You never lose your landing pad and move it over. And a smarter guy probably would have done that. But I was stubborn. I was like, I'm not self-censoring. As soon as I started self-censoring, I'm no longer what has made me who I am. 100%. And so, YouTube, in the blink of an eye, after Chris Barber, after Peter McCullough, after all these things, it just disappeared. Like, I mean, Sean Newman channel gone.

And so worst case scenario you go with what's going on with CRTC is what meta just did to news links, right? We can all see it. You can't, you're not allowed to see this content. It's like, oh boy. Yeah. So you go, okay, to sign up for, just to be on some registry, Spotify, yep, this is where we're operated. Here you go. Maybe.

Maybe. To give all their subscribership data and their shows and everything, I think you're stretching. And I go like, so part of me goes, the rational side of the part of the brain goes, you'll never get to that. I'll never get that. And then the other side of my brain goes, Sean, you just lived through three years of COVID. It's going to get to that.

Don't kid yourself. Now, it depends on what the public does is if they pull back on that and allow it. But like, you know, I was just, I just read a story in the Western Standard about Howard Stern when he first came to Canada and getting booted back out. And of course, satellite radio becoming a big thing.

And it's like, there will always be a way. The difficulty is taking the million downloads that I'm trying to get and transferring that to a new place. To whatever the new thing is, yeah. Because it won't, it could be, folks, it could not be Spotify and Apple. I'm actively searching this out right now so I can warn people as we go. I'm going to be on this.

I'm going to be on this. I'm going to be on this. This is going to be bulletproof. I'm going to be here. And I don't have that answer yet. And I want to have it by the beginning of November, if not sooner. Yeah. So that they know.

But that's my biggest fear. But that's the thing. That's what they're going for, Sean, is they want to create it. It's like you can stay and you can keep doing. Right. Like they have the argument of, oh, we're not doing it. anything like you can still operate as if you as if nothing had changed but you know and I know that things are coming down the pike and that you need to have those and you might be forced with

these slow drips so that it doesn't look like they're being totalitarian in the move themselves so they do it over time with with different steps of it but eventually it wants you to move it wants you to take that hit they don't want you growing they don't want you spreading a message that they cannot control that is the biggest thing that's why they come after podcast that's why they're so scared of it is because they saw the last couple years hey we've been we've been able to grab so much more control over our citizens take away so much more of their actual ability to influence in their weight on a country, right?

And there's only a few little bastions of dissent and this is one of them, the freedom of podcasting just being able to put out whatever you feel is one of those big things, that's where they're coming after it. Yeah, it doesn't sound like there's that much, oh, they're just getting information, oh, they're just getting this.

That's just the first step, and it's never exactly what they say it is, right? There's always something in the back page on page two, page three, Find print on page seven that's going to come in and have an effect. Maybe it's that there's not enough Aboriginal content. Maybe it's not enough this. So they have to,

they can, and they probably don't even have to tell you this. They can just gauge or, you know, step down your, your podcast availability on YouTube, right? So it's not shown to as many people. And they,

during COVID, they swore up and down. We are not gating access. We are not controlling how, how many people can see certain things. And then the Twitter files came out. And it was exactly that. Not only were they actively doing that, say, hey, shut that post down,

only give it half engagement, shut this down. But then also every time you'd mention one of those keywords and you get the little, um, uh, warning pop up on in your post. If you said one of the wrong words, automatically 50% engagement, uh, ban put on it. Right? Every time. This is why it's so important for the listener to share. So important.

Because without, without it, you think about it. I don't know about you. I don't have this budget to go out and advertise what I'm doing. I don't. I have zero advertising it. Like, well, that's not true.

I advertise my comedy shows with everything I have in me. But that's just me doing it. That's sweat equity than a huge marketing budget. It's not on buses by any means. It'd be cool if it was on buses. It will be one day. One day. Yeah.

You know, I mean, you just, you come all the way back and you think about it. It's like, I'm not, I'm not nervous of it. Because it one way or another we'll find a way through.

We will. What I am irritated about is like, you know, I assume, government is there to protect the, you know, the entrepreneur, the business, the et cetera, et cetera. I pay taxes. I don't incite violence.

I stick up for what I believe in, but I literally am giving people a chance to be heard and everything else, which you think in some naive part of my body is what they want, but it's totally, totally goes against what history says, right? So you go, okay, so you're in an industry. The one I think of all the time right now, I've been talking lots. I just talked to his about is Alex Jones. Now, don't ever hate out. Alex, I give two sheds.

But he's been pushed to the dark corner of the internet. Yeah. Because of the people he's had on, because of the things he said, because of, you know, right and wrong, he's, you know, perpetuated out. Yeah. And yet he's still, like, Uber successful. You forget how successful he is until he comes out of that dark area of the internet they got him cornered in on his website. And he goes on, like, just this week. Actually, the shirt I'm wearing right now, Mexican ground karate, it's, uh, uh, you know, beat team jihitsu out of Austin, Texas.

favorite to do amazing content but one of the guys has a podcast called the El Sago podcast he just had Alex Jones on this week and his podcast is you know really great for guys that are real diehard Jiu Jitsu guys he's a very funny dude but you see just a whole different audience come out right and Alex talks about his numbers and it's you get how many views on your website of mine you're doing 12 million views an episode like and I never went and verified in this but he usually doesn't talk shit unless he's talking about it's just like you see the power they've had and how far they've gone to silence that guy.

Again, I'm not a huge Alex Jones guy either. It's just almost a good case study to look at and learn lessons, right? Yeah, yeah. You see everything they've thrown at him and the fact that that has almost pushed him just into darkness and he's been labeled so that he can never almost ever come back into the mainstream. He's been painted with that brush, but that doesn't mean he's unsuccessful. And, like, he's more successful than everybody else, really?

I'm trying to get Ezra Levant on right now. Who's that story? Rebel News. Oh, okay. Gotcha. And then I just had Chris Sims on. And the reason I bring these two people up is because, like, you know, like, I think how you get to Alex Jones level,

where you're just like, you come out of the darkness and he comes on shows and you're like, as a regular newbie listener, like Joe Rogan when he first had on, you're like, this is fucking wild. Can you believe? But the thing is, he's been shut down by everyone. And you think, oh, you only get shut down if you're that wild. And the reason I bring up, like Chris Sims is Chris Sims, they were trying to get carriage for conservative style.

news reporting in Canada back at like 2010. They wouldn't grant it. So you can be middle of the road. Yeah. And you can't get it. And so like you think this is only coming for the Alex Jones of the world. Great point. This is coming for us fucking all folks.

Like this is just, it's just, and I don't mean that to say to scare anyone. I don't, you know, Chris Sim says you got to call your MLA, your MP. You got to push on government and say, and we're like, well, COVID came and went. Like, part of me is like, I love the enthusiasm. Part of me is like the storm is already upon us, just batten down the hatches and find ways for people to find us. Because, I mean, the Canadian government has pissed off pretty much everyone under the sun. And they're going to piss off Spotify. They're going to piss off Apple.

Yes. And if they don't piss them off, I sometimes, I'm like, that might be even worse. You know, like, it's like, what are they doing behind scenes, you know? Okay, well, that was one of the big things I wanted to bring up earlier is like one of the biggest things that happens is going to be see how these, companies respond to what the Canadian government is asking, right? If one of those big four or five, if Rumble says, go fuck yourself Canadian government, go fuck yourself, CRDZ, we're not giving you shit. And they would say, okay, then you can operate in Canada.

People just use VPNs and go on Rumble will probably make Rumble more popular in Canada, right? If Spotify says it, who knows, right? Maybe it's just like, oh, you know, right now it's, oh, you can't see news in Canada. Oh, you can't see podcasts in Canada because Spotify hasn't hopped on. But it's about who says it. But another thing, I wanted to make that point earlier, but it kind of distate to. into this, you just said something. You said, it's coming for everybody, but it's insidious.

It's way more insidious than that because it's not coming for everybody. It's coming for everybody that doesn't comply, which is a very different dynamic. And we've seen this already through COVID, but like this thing is, is like, if you self-censor, none of this matters to you. It doesn't come, nothing's coming after you as long as you comply. If you self-censor and don't talk about these dangerous things, they'll never come after you. It's the people that say, hey, this whole,

thing with the CRTC is not okay. You can't do it. Those are the people it's coming for. If you stand up and you say something, then it's coming for you. But that makes it so hard to fight because you can't rally everyone to get up in arms over this and fight back because it's it's that same argument about like surveillance. Well, if you're not doing anything, uh, if you're not doing anything wrong, why are you scared of it, right? And you have to really explain and get into the mud to explain the slippery slope of what it can become and how it can be used in that, but you can't get everyone on board because to everybody, else to be guys like me and you we should be a little bit worried because it is coming for us because

we are going to say something but if you're not right like i look at this with all these comedians none of these comedians have anything to worry about because they've already they've already self-censored they're already on board with it they've already complied to what the government wants right and they've got nothing to worry about so now how do you get everyone up in arms about this thing when only the very that's what makes it so insidious is they get to choose how hard they push and selectively go after who they want so that it makes you look crazy when you're trying to ring the alarm bells and everyone going like well they're just going after the Alex Jones but to your point they're not they just get to selectively play this game of who they can and can't go after and they get to set the whole thing up

this is the first steps to set this all up so they have that control and now you're already seeing the most record high levels of self-censorship I can't remember which podcast was on it might have been Jordan Peterson it might have been like Freeman had someone on from a freedom of speech Freedom of Speech organization called Fire. And they rank all the... That's funny. I've been trying to get Ira Glasser on. Same.

Exactly. Yeah, no. So you're familiar. But they rank all the universities in freedom of speech, right? And they were doing a bunch of studies on how much they self-censor with both professors and students on campus.

And it's like not small increases. It's like huge, like momentious shifts in the amount of self-censorship going on. And we're already at that level. I think that's the biggest pay. the biggest tool they have is like let's just make it so painful and so use both carrots and sticks to encourage this comp to comply without realizing you're complying because that's what I'm saying with all these comedians I come in here with fresh eyes and go man like none of you're

joking about like this is just so woke this is gone like how we go recalling this comedy and they have no idea they don't we make crazy jokes I make rape jokes and it's like yeah because you're allowed to make rape they've they've said that's okay it's not about just offensive it's a specific offensive to this specific government of what is allowed in your country. That's not freedom. If I may, if I may, and you tell me if I'm right on this, what you're talking about

is talking against the narrative. So making jokes about the narrative. So if the narrative doesn't and this is, this is why Dave Chappelle is who he is. Yeah. Right? I didn't agree with it. I don't, never agree with a comedian. I've never agreed with a community on everything. But I have watched. One of the things I will give Dave Chappelle over

any other comedian. He has any special come out. He has any show. It doesn't matter if it's Black Live matter or some comedy skid over here, I watch it all because he is phenomenal because he never, he steers into the rough waters. He doesn't steer away. And what you're talking about is as a comedian, you're talking to the culture of today. And you're pointing out some of the elephants in the room. And what you're saying to comedians is, yeah, it's great.

You can talk about rape, although I might boo that on stage, but maybe I'm wrong. But you can, sure, maybe you can. But right now you've already said, well, we can't talk about vaccines because that's a, who, that's a rough one. And you're talking about, we can't talk about the way it's going. And yet, everybody wants us to. Everybody wants to talk about all the shit going on, even if they don't agree. It's just, it's like trying to make sense of it in your own head.

What are the best podcasts that anyone does? It's about something that's controversial that you want to listen to a boat from the safety of your chair where you're like, that kind of makes sense, or that doesn't make sense. That guy's an idiot or that's something. And that's the great. Comedy, try and finds a way to make you laugh about how insane we are for some of the stupidity we allow in the world. Right.

Yeah. No, I think you're right on the one. I think that's great with it. But just to expand, just to completely ignore what you just said and just keep going on what I was saying. That's a great podcaster would. It's tough because if you ask them about it, they go, oh, no, people are just over COVID.

They don't want to hear it about it anymore. Like everyone made all the hack COVID jokes. It's like, no. ever made all the hack COVID jokes? Like I've heard a million people did the joke of like, oh, you wouldn't put some, was worried about what you're putting in her body

but I see him do coke every weekend, right? Like, I've heard seven billion versions is that joke, right? But it's on narrative about COVID, right? And they're like, oh, they've been through that. But nobody ever went to the other side because nobody wanted to risk that, right? You get labeled you were,

well, you couldn't even be at the show because you're probably on vaccine at those point when those shows are happening. But they're just saying, oh, the crowd doesn't want to hear about it anymore. And to some degree they're right. But then I do these jokes, right? I've done some unvaccinated jokes and stuff.

And yeah, you get some tables. They get a little tight. But then there's always at least one table of people that they go nuts. They're laughing so hard. And they've come up to me after the show and they go, don't stop doing that. Thank you for making those jokes. I've never heard someone joke about it. You need to come on the Tuesday mashup live tour because that's our crap.

Exactly. And I have jokes for days for that. Like I've written so much that I can't do. And I've just started doing a little bit more because I have my own show and I don't really give a fuck out. put you on the spot, but since you brought up, what's a joke that you can't do? Oh, there's not me specifically, not a joke I can't do. But that's me because I choose to do it. Are there jokes that are difficult to do for sure, right?

Like I have a, I have, uh, I have jokes about, uh, yeah, about the moment when, uh, like, being unvaccined and doing all the research about, um, like, why I had that decision doing all this being so ready to have any argument with anyone and then overnight one speech from Trudeau. And I was racist and she'd be like, fuck. I thought I had every base cover, but I just didn't see how race could come into this. And then how, like, you know, I was upset, but they didn't give me a sheet. Like, I don't know how to be racist. I'm new to it, you know, 28 years not being a racist.

Like, I don't know what kind of racist am. Am I a violent rate? Go into a whole bunch of stuff. But people are so turned off other than the people that get on board are dying. But then you'll see people that, oh, he's talking about and I'm being on back. And they just sit there arms cross glaring at you while you're on stage, right? And you just got to deal with it. That's part of the fun, right?

I usually do it towards an end of a set because, you know, that's hard to dig out of, Especially if you're doing it in five minutes, right? If you open with that, a little bit tougher. Can you, I don't know, you tell me you're the guy who's doing this. Can you steer into that even more and be like, this guy gets it? Like, can you like point it out? And I would now, right? Like, I just, I don't know.

I feel like I'm at a different place in comedy where I'm, it was so tough at the start because it's hard to do any jokes, right? Like just getting laughs on stage is so hard at the start, just like being up there, the fear that then to add this other layer of like, oh, now I'm going to go down this road that like everyone turning it. And like, that's the thing. The audience can feel what they feel. If they want to laugh or not laugh, dictate anything to you.

That is your prerogative. And as a comedian, that's my job to change that. I don't really give a shit what the audience are saying. It's when comedians have something to say about it. Or like, we'll get mad at you or think about you differently for the jokes you do on stage knowing full well. We're all just trying to make people laugh. Right. And like to be demonized, I've had like comedians.

found out I was unvaccinated and just stopped talking me all together uninvited me kicked me off shows just like almost dehumanized me completely once and we were close before that and you see that and it's like when it's coming from the comedians themselves that's where my issue comes right audiences or audiences you're going to get all kinds you're going to get all different beliefs and you've got to learn to do jokes I can tailor and and you're going to have to just eat it when it's wild yeah it is hey I was shocked by I was actually really hurt by it like I'm kind of at this point now where I feel like I've built up enough confidence by doing my own things and knowing what I have and just now at this point.

It's, it was a lot worse when you're just getting started and you're trying to break in and you feel those feelings where now, I don't know, I'm doing shows with these people and keeping up just fine, doing a lot better than them on a lot of shows, right? Like it's you catch up and you don't feel as much. But when I was a couple months in and feeling all the stress of trying to do this thing and being all scared to get on there and you want everyone to like you. And then you're just by a decision you made that has nothing to do with the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you're just. the task at hand is nothing to do with comedy or just dehumanized and kind of treated like a second-class citizen. Have you seen the Dion Sanders clip? I've seen a lot of Dion Sanders clips in my time. I don't know which specific one towards COVID or towards? No, no, no, no, towards the reporters where he's like, what makes you think, I give a shit,

what what you think? Exactly. That's what we all need to impersonalize. Right, right. But you have to earn that. That's a mindset. You have to, that you have to, that you have to earn right and I feel like I'm working towards that and that's what's changed where I feel like people within comedy have seen different sides of me because I'm very meek might not be the right word but I don't want to cause them trouble I'm not very confrontational right but like if you push me but I didn't have a lot of legs to stand on so I got walked on a lot when I started but it was like oh but you guys are going to see I remembered every person that did it and I knew that at one point I'm going to be really good at this I'm

going to have something to offer and I'm going to remember who was kind to me right off the start and I could name you you know we could take 10 minutes here and I could just name me people that were really amazing to me when you when I started and gave me the time of day. Even though I had nothing to offer them, I just started for, you know, there's people that start and quit comedy all the time. There's a lot of people in comedy that won't learn someone's name until they've done it for three months because the attrition rate is just so high.

Hmm. Right? Like it's almost not worth it going in and getting to know this guy when he could be, honestly, probably more often than not won't be there in a couple months. That's like kind of the reality of comedy. But then there are people that are just good people and go to their way, talk to you, be present, be, uh, be kind with their advice and stuff. And, and you remember that too.

but it was just tough to have something as unrelated as like a vaccine status make that big of difference with some people. I've got to specify that. That was a very few people. It's just they start of when someone starts not like you. Everyone kind of takes notice, right? It changes how your dynamic is within a community of people, right? Oh, why doesn't that person like them? Maybe not even know what it initially started.

All they picked up on is, oh, they're not talking to him anymore. Maybe there's something there. I don't want to piss them off. Yeah, especially if it's an influential person, right? Yeah. Especially when you're new to a scene. Trying to break in. Yeah, like, that's, that's, well, it's just another, it's another,

it's another funny thing. My, if you notice, the video is both shut off. We've been having, I, this is, this has got to be the funniest thing. I'm derailing this for a second. That's what we're neat. So, I got these cameras in the studio, right? Yeah. They just recorded a day ago for two hours straight,

and actually we're probably on for three hours straight, never shut off. Not once. Yeah. Then today, it's less than 50 minutes, well, less than an hour, and they both are shut off. I'm like, how does that make any sense in any world? It's, it's funny to hear this because I remember listening to a podcast probably eight years ago and just hearing so many podcasts on so many,

like on different coasts of America talking about how fucking hard it is to get cameras that don't shut off after 30 minutes. And you think, we've come so far as Poggin, we have all this new equipment. And in 2023, we're still battling the exact same issue that plagued podcast since the very start of them. Well, it's money. I know about the 30 thing.

That's why these cameras aren't 30 things, right? So I'm working through this issue. I've been working, because I've been trying, as people have probably noticed. I've been trying to get more people in studio because there's nothing that it even remotely relates to being in studio, the vibe, the everything. It's just amazing.

Yeah. This is like, if I could have one skill and just snap my finger and have it, it would be the skill to land any guest to come to the studio. I would wait to, if Jordan Peterson could tell me tomorrow,

I'll come do your podcast in five years, I would wait five years knowing that he was going to be in studio. Yeah. Because in studio trumps anything I've ever done. It's so much better than anything. Yeah. But the only piss off

is these bloody cameras. I mean, like, I'm ready to take a baseball bat out except it's not like they're $2 cameras. No, that's what I walked in. I was like, oh, man, Sean's got the full setup. He's got it all laying out.

I thought, for sure, they're recorded. They're plugged into power. Like, they, you know, like, what could turn them all? I don't know. So, you know, this is. Probably when I took my sweater off, it just saw all these muscles, you know, and just shattered the lenses, you know, scared them off. You know, Jack's going to be editing this, and he's going to be like, where'd the cameras go?

I'm like, Jack, I don't know what to tell you. They're gone again. It's like, I don't get this. This is, like, the one part of podcasting that I'm just like, it makes zero sense to me. It's like total voodoo. The text. side, I, but again, that's like we talked earlier, about, about, like, keeping the right priorities and the right spaces.

That's true. The tech side of podcasts, I always just have let Jesus take the wheel. And you will see, you don't come to the Vaundupcast for production about. We don't got the fans, stuff like this, all these nice lights up. It is pure conversation that brings it in. And eventually, I'll have, what's the name of the guy does, Andy? Jack. Jack?

I'll have my own Jack that gets to do all these things. And, uh, it'll be amazing. We were talking about on the way in how, how, you know, I was talking, it showed you possibly a spot because news flash to the audience around here. I really want to see what Nick is doing in Emmington, except I want to pull it to Lloyd. Yeah. I just, I want to have things to do in Lloyd, and I came to this mentality of, I'm going to stop trying to be like I have a podcast studio in Calgary and Ementon, Saskatoon, and wherever

a guest is, I'm going to go chase after that. Fuck that. That's going to drain me. And I'm way too prioritized, I think, when it comes to my wife and kids, to be around and in their life. And I don't want to be chasing this on. Like, I'm chasing it in my own way. Yeah. So I'm going to build the field of dreams and Lord.

Right? So that means hopefully new studio, hopefully a few other things that all of a sudden, Nick's like, yeah, we're coming. That sounds badass. And I'm going to bring this guy with you, or this guy with me, because this is, you've got to interview this. And you can see where it goes. Yeah. And you build it so everybody comes. And one of the things I'm like, what you're talking about, I'm like, I want to,

drive down Emmington just to see it. But now I've got to drive roughly three hours by the time I'm in the heart of Emmington, go to a show, love or hate it, doesn't matter. Then I got to turn, either got to go buy a hotel room or I got to turn around, drive the three hours back. Exactly. And I go, why don't I just try and bring this to Lloyd just to try it out? It does you a world a good.

Yeah. For me, it gets me out of the house. I can drive on down to the local wherever. I think we got the spot picked. I'm not going to say it just yet. Looks great. And then have Adder. And maybe we've become a little bit of a little bit of a house.

hub for what Nick von dubs is building so that we can see what's going on in your world but have it here because like the crappy thing you know this about driving the Lloyd like I love Lloyd we're in the middle of nowhere you know we're two and a half hours both ways from anything that's of significance and I'm not shitting on Wainwright or Cold Lake or anything I'm just saying that major centers are Emmington and Saskatoon so if you want any of the you know the comedy shows everything like that where does everybody go they go out of town I go well why can't we bring it here you know when you talk about a community can't

do it that way. You know, you got to go and it's like, well, the world has been reworked by people who see around problems all the time. All the time. And to me, to bring it here to Lloyd and, and try and have a little bit of fun with it. Yeah. It would be super cool. Oh, super cool. An amazing opportunity. Exactly with what I said earlier with how Canada operates. There's so little opportunity and it's all gated by the same people. Anytime you can add a new piece of pie, like it seems like everyone got this idea in their head that the comedy thing in Canada is this pie it's set and we all just have to fight for our piece of it and you get seriously swatted at when you step outside of that and oh let's try and grow this pie but there's so much value to it if you can

just say screw you i'm not listening i'm not listening i'm not listening i'm starting something it would be huge right if we started up like a monthly show in lloyd minster and started getting that is huge for the scat the saskatoon comedy scene it'd be huge for them it'd be huge for the M to Comps is huge for Calgary, right? Like a huge boon that actually makes a difference that will be noticeable we'll be putting not only cash in comics pockets that desperately needed,

it's not easy to make a living doing comedy, but also just like that stage time like we talked about, another great show that pulls people. And I love what you're talking about Field of Dreams because that's been my goal. Since I went to Austin in... Let me back up.

I had this idea. I wanted to be great at comedy, great at podcasting, And the way to do that is to get to America. You've got a family, obviously a little bit different. You've got to build it here. But from where I was sitting, unencumbered, ready to go off and just chase what I need to chase, to be able to drop everything at any moment.

I thought, what is the fastest way I can get to America? I need to get to Austin. That's what I need to do, right? Let's go down there. Let's go check it out. You know, talk to some comics down there. They gave me a place to stay. Got me all excited for I went down there.

And I saw what it was. And I realized, oh, eventually I'll be here. But that's not what I need to do. What I need to do is get as good as possible. Where can I do that? I can do that in Eminton where I have a base where I can build things where I can really cut my teeth. And then I go,

what makes Austin special? Oh, it's the best place for you to be. If you're in America and you want to do comedy right now, maybe New York's pretty close too, but essentially it's just great stage time, great community, great environment for people to succeed and to grow.

Why can I turn Emmington that? And that's what my sense I got back from Austin. That's been my number one goal. Turn Emmington into the Austin of, Canada where nobody wants to move to Toronto nobody wants to move to Vancouver wants to move to Edmonton that's where the best comics in Canada come and that's going to be your pipeline to get to America because America is still if you want to succeed if you want to be something special you've got to get down there but it's expensive it is difficult you need

all sorts of checkboxes checked to be able to get down there but with the show that I'm that I've started and it's going to be moving to Friday soon because it's kind of outgrown it's Thursday spot there and then I have a new show for Thursday that is still I gave you a little bit of a heads up of what it's going to be, but it's still under, underwrapped for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, for the, those are with the express purpose to bring the best comics in Canada to Evanton and get us all in the same pond, all growing from each other because nothing makes you stronger than seeing someone else come and blow

you out of the water, right? Like, it's a very competitive base in the most positive sense of competitive, right? Like, it needs, you need, you need, you need, you need, you need to go find a bigger pond, or stock that, you need to, you need to, you need to sock that bitch with some big hummers and you know grow it grow that pawn make you know you know what I mean like I just have a completely different lease on it and that's everything I've been doing has been with that exact field of dreams mentality of I'm going to make such an amazing show I'm going to make such a institution in emminton that everyone wants to come here and that's what makes something really special that starts to bring undeniable talent that can

break past the confines of the opportunities they're giving out they can keep giving those to whatever checkbox you know we need this many women this many men, this many, this color, this many, that color. They can keep doing that. We're going to create our own thing where all we care about is funny. Like, I got shit when I first started booking shows that bar show. People would say, I'd do the first, the first two weeks, I, I didn't have a girl on it. And I don't care.

I want the funniest people. There will be girls because there's very funny girls. And I have book girls. I've booked this color that. But I'm just the thought of taking into account some completely immutable factor, like skin color into whether I'm going to book some or not, just feel so gross to me. so offhand. Some people do it,

and I don't judge other people for doing it, but just not for me. I want the funniest people. And because of that, they're the best shows and people want to be on them because it means something. You're not just getting on

from some sort of diversity aspect. That's gross to me. I would never do that, right? But you get booked on, you know you've earned it. The, just on the diversity thing, this podcast has never been as diverse as it is now.

And the main reason is because we search for interesting good games. everything. And I've never had more women, more ethnicities. Heck, we've had a transgendered female on, male on. I forget how to do that. But anyways, you know, like, it's been across the spectrum. For sure. You know? And we didn't have to go trying to force that. That actually just bubbles to the surface because that's what the best do. Yeah. It's like they just keep getting thrown at you because that's what you're looking for. So the fact, that's what you're trying to do in

Emmington. You know, I know there's a lot of people that would say, Eminentonton, why haven't it but you know you're you're um I get the why Lloydminster it's like well I'm here maybe if I was in Calgary it'd be different but then maybe my show would be different for sure it would it almost it would be impossible not to be Lloydminster is whether they want it or not is like one of the last bastions of free speech right like it's it's this place where we got no union we got no government or very little we got a bunch of entrepreneurs blue-collar hardworking folks that nobody's coming to help because we're in the middle of nowhere and when it's miserable it's miserable and

the community is always rallied. Like it's an amazing community. And to me, I'm like, so why can't I bring people to come experience that? Yeah. And that's what you're talking about with Emmettys. Like, let's build something to put us on the map instead of all fleeing to the United States because that's where, you know, 330 million people are. And supposedly that's where, why can't we build that?

I mean, obviously the government's doing hard things to make that. To make it more difficult, right? Right. Like, I mean, that just lights my fire even further. The harder they try to stop it, the more, for whatever reason, that might be my kook in my brain, but nothing makes me want to strive harder to. to show it to them to put it in their face, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. When you look down in the States, I stick with podcasts, I guess, but like Joe Rogan has faced criticism. You know, others have faced immense criticism. It doesn't matter where you go in the world. You're going to face criticism. The only thing is, is I would argue,

maybe I need to do a little more research on this. I don't see the United States, even under Joe Biden, doing nearly as much to try and stamp out all the Joe Rogans, the Lex Friedman's, all those names. But our Canadian government certainly is making life difficult. And that would be, that's the one appealing thing about the United States over Canada is I feel like you could go down there and you're not going to have to worry.

But like on the flip side, that's where the giant opportunity lies in Canada is like they're literally trying to stamp us out. Yeah. And, you know, when you put it in the way you did earlier on, I'm like, you know, like in Canada, what is there? Is there 15? Is there 25? Is there 100?

It doesn't matter. It's a small number of podcasters slash independent news feed sources that we have. You can count them on almost like two hands. For sure. And I like to think I know a few of them because, I mean, I've had them most of them on. And the fact that we can do that and you go, that's where the opportunity lies. Big time. I mean, the government doesn't want it here.

And that's where you got to keep. it's all about the viewpoint you choose to see things through right like you can get down on and i i definitely find myself guilty that sometimes you know feeling bad for yourself oh it's so hard to do things here there's such a a history of people just doing it this one way and nobody wants to open their mind to it there's the government standing in your way there's all this right like you can sit there and kind of feel bad for yourself or you can look at the way you just put it up there's such opportunity here there's so much hunger for real comedy right like that's I think the biggest strength I have right now is how little effort people have put in

to putting on the true best comedy show they can. Like there's this like a, you see so many comedy shows to be passed out. It was started six years ago by a different comic that's already left to a different scene and just got passed on to this person. They put in the effort. They keep it going, but they don't do everything they could to make it good.

And there's such a magic to a well-run comedy show when like everything's going. It's well-hosted. The comics are strong. like magic is happening in the room of like inside jokes that are just with that audience that will never exist again, right? You have your material that people bring in, but there's always those little, little magical pieces. And when you experience that as an audience member on a really special show, that stays as you forever. You might not remember the names of the comics on the show.

You might not remember the specific jokes you heard unless it's like some really like inside joke where a comic was riffing with someone at your table. But you will remember how much fun you had that night for the rest of your life and you will come back. Well, the thing you're bringing to mind for me is I had Brett Kissel on, right? I've told the story a few times, so I apologize to the listener for rehash in it, but I went and saw Brett Kessel. And do I know who Brett Kessel is? Certainly. Yeah. Like, do I know his songs? Certainly.

Yeah. But overall, I would argue, like, I wasn't like, I'm going to Brett Kistle, you know, Rainer's sign. Like, I got asked to help host it. I was like, well, that's a pretty cool opportunity. Yeah, yeah, I gladly go on stage, right? Like, I don't, you know. And what I was telling Brett in here, and, you know, and I continue to think about is how much time he's lived in my head since I watched him perform.

It's wild. Because I saw a guy who not only is a great performer, not only has a great voice, but add in the show presence, like all three. He's in a, he's in a facility that doesn't have 10,000 people. It's probably got 1,500. And yet he plays for the 1,500 like it's 40,000. It brings them all in. Every time they start to leave, he pulls them back in.

Yeah. It's just, it was just this, wow, from start to finish, it was a guy who paid attention to detail on every last aspect. And I say this about, you know, and this isn't a harp on Gord Bamford. I don't know Gord, and I hardly know Brett. So it's just, I saw them on back-to-back nights. Yeah. And the difference was so stark, it's not even funny.

Gord Banford has this million-dollar voice. Million-dollar voice. Like, I mean, he gets up there and sings, and you're like, this guy is a country. But it wasn't a bad stage presence. It just wasn't the same. Yeah. And I thought about, I didn't go, I haven't gone to back-to-back concerts, probably in my life.

And two nights I went to back-to-back concerts, two different venues, shouted to Slim who got me tickets, you know, helped, we helped promote the Mar-Wain one. And I got to go there and shout it to the Vic Juba for putting me on stage in Lloyd, that, or at Lloyd X so I could host. I mean, like, without thought, I wouldn't have been at either. And so, like, I was very happy to be at both. but Brett Kissel's show was something like he comes back in this area, I'm going.

I'm taking my wife to it. I might even take my kids to it. That's how good it was. And I haven't experienced anything remotely like that since Sam Roberts was here as a very young man well before he was at the pinnacle of his career. And you go, it doesn't matter if it's music, it doesn't matter if it's comedy,

doesn't matter what it is. We have all been to spaces. Think of a hockey game. Think of just a conference. where something goes extremely like right or good or it's held to some standard you can't see

you're like I can't put my finger on it that was unreal the level of attention to detail was top notch and I want to do things like that so me as a guy who puts on shows I watch Brett Kessel with a fine toothed calm

and being like this is this is something like even how he did that even how he had this little break even how he controlled the cadence of the night with up down up down and he talked about it.

We changed our set list like three times in the middle of the show because we had the people just going. So we're like, well, let's not bring him it down and let's put him on opera. And him talking about how hard that is. I was like, yeah, like, and I noticed that. You're doing that or I think, you know, like this is why I want to come watch. Yeah, you got to come out. I got to come out of one.

I got to find a way to come to Emmington. So if I come down to Emmington, uh, folks, I'm going to let, I'm going to let you know. I'm going to have to do it before. Like, uh, come down this Friday. Change all your plans. But, well, the, the thing is, is, is, Is it, there's no Thursday show anymore? Now it's Friday?

So what we did was we wanted it on a Thursday show. Like I explained to it, the restaurant, having lunch earlier, what I wanted it to be was that night that everyone comes in before all the comics go on the road for the weekend, go to Saskatoon, to Emerson, to Calgary, to do the roadwork. Everybody comes together and has one, like, late night, everyone can get on. It's kind of that big hub that everyone comes. Kind of what the comedy story used to be, right, when everyone would come back on Monday from

the road and they'd all Monday through Wednesday be there, and then they go out and do their thing. That's what I wanted it to be. But with that late night aspect where we're going until two, three, five in the morning every Thursday, it just lends itself so much better to a Friday. And we did one Friday show last month because we wanted to allow people from the slave lakes of the world. And the venue owners are from Fort Mac. They want to let people come down. They can't really come down on the Thursday.

And we sold it out and it was nuts, right? And we're like, oh, okay, well, let's do a monthly one Friday a month. And that ended up being this upcoming Friday the 13th. But now with the inclusion of this next idea and just with the rate it's growing at and how successful the show was going, I think always in our heads it would have ended up on a Friday. We just thought it was going to take, because comedy shows usually a slow build. You got to do that magic night overnight and build up regulars. People want to come out. And over six months, you can have crew.

We just ended up doing it in the first couple months where it's already kind of outgrown that. So it's going to go to Friday full time, probably next month. And we have a new show. So November, November, you're going to be Fridays. So if you're like by the time this airs, we'll be past 13th anyways. Yeah. So it'll be Thursdays with a month. So what I'm thinking is I'm like, I wonder if I can get down there before it's,

which is Fridays are going to be in part. Like in my world, right now, hockey season is starting to pick up. Kids, everything, I'm like Friday, but a Thursday night. For sure, we could get you up for a Thursday. Like, could I sneak up there just to go witness it? Because like, to me, what you're talking about, I talk lots about origin stories. Like, how cool is it to have been in the, I don't know, for me, for if you were in the audience, maybe it wasn't. But for me to be like, my first show I ever hosted had Danielle Smith on it.

I think about that lot. Yeah. That's the origin story of where I started live shows. And what you're talking about is like maybe Nick Von Dubbs eventually has, I don't know, Dave Chappelle on stage. Let's go as high as you can get. And I go, wouldn't it be cool to have been one of the people who saw even if you can't make every Thursday or Friday? Just be part of it once. Just to be a part of it once or twice

to say, oh yeah, I remember. Like my parents went to Euler games all the time when Kreske was playing. Yeah, yeah. It took all five of us kids. Can you imagine that? Like, I mean, now you can't even forward it. Yeah.

But like back then they took all five. And they talked about how the rink wasn't sold out, how you had Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messi and all these guys winning Stanley Cups in front of you. Yeah. And people didn't realize what they had. Or maybe they did. I don't know.

But at the end of the day, it's like, what a wild thing to have been a part of. And I don't know. Maybe it gets there, or it doesn't. You keep saying it does. I like the mind. I love the mindset. I'm not going to throw a shade.

I'm going to look at it and I go, I just want to get there and see it before. And then maybe there's a way to bring it to Lloyd. And then be able to talk to it legibly for the audience to be like, hey, I want to watch this. You've got to come see this. You want a date night with the wife on every second Thursday of the month or whatever it is. And you go, yeah, that sounds like fun because then it can become something where you look forward to it, you know? and all of us want that. All of us want something that makes us laugh

or that's an opportunity to take the wife or go out with some buddies and have a couple of drinks or don't have any drinks, I could care less. Like just enjoy, you know, some company, right? Like, we're so, COVID just fucking took everything from us. Yeah. Like, it's just everything. You've realized in Lloyd right now?

I mean, I guess Cheers Live is the closest you get to a bar. But we have, like, zero bars. Like, of course we have pubs. Like, I mean, we have no, like, like dancing bar. It's only going to get worse, Sean. Like when you look at the universities right now, the amount of people that actually go out and do stuff now,

it's just barely out. It's a fraction of what it was. It's not even recognizable. I'm not even that old of God. I'm not even 30 yet. And like to look at the university experience today versus when I went a couple years ago, it's almost unrecognizable.

Like everything has changed. And now that generation gap is just going to keep pushing forward. Like I think you're just seeing the very start of it. And that's why it's so important to pull people together and create community in any way. way you can because the old school ways it seems to be a thing of the past. Until you create it. Of course.

People are itching for it. They just don't know. Yeah. Well, and they have until they go experience it, how can they know? Except there's so many old timers and down the where they still remember going and doing it and being like this place is, this place is freaking awesome. Right. And then live music and everything else. When I was first dating Mel, oh, no, that was how many years.

I don't know. in the first five years of us dating each other. Had a good friend in Philadelphia, and so we went and visited her. And she took us to this, like, I think it was an Italian restaurant, but every, like, 15 minutes, the entire restaurant would stop,

and one of the waiters or waitresses would start singing opera. And one of the ways you got to work at the place is you had to be a student of that. You had to have that ability. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and it was like, man, I wish I could explain how frigging electric it was in the place. Yeah, I bet. But not knowing what I walked into. It was an experience. It was like, holy dinah.

Like, if I ever get back there, I'll search it out. But I mean, who knows if I ever go back to Philadelphia. Yeah. But as a younger man, experiencing that was just something unbelievable. And the thing is, you can create that wherever you're sitting. You just have to, you know, maybe think a little outside the box. And, you know, kind of test and trial and oops, that didn't work, this did work. Because once you start building something like that, people will come from all over. For sure. Like, I mean, I just think of the last Sean Newman podcast, or Sean Newman Presents, sorry, one we did in June. That was the last show I did.

We had people fly in all the way from Toronto for it because they can't find it anywhere else in Canada. Yeah. Like, think about that. Yeah. So the opportunity is giant right now. We're all looking for it. We're all looking for the people that are going to shatter some of this narrative. or just shatter some of the stereotypes that our industries have become.

And like comedy is, you know, like, where are all the funny people? I mean, I know they're still there, but. And that's what's wild to me, too, to see, like, with the self-censorship and stuff, how funny people are in spite of it. And I feel like that's a lot of things that people point to to be like, oh, well, look how funny is. It can't be this big issue you're pointing to. But I'm like, imagine how funny that person would be if they had the full repertoire,

we're brave enough to talk about whatever came to them because like clearly they don't even realize it but there's certain areas they will not go it doesn't mean that everyone would make all the jokes but when you have like one comic that kind of like has it as his niche to just talk about like canada as it sits today how can that be a niche how can that not be everybody right like it it uh it really shocks me and i just think with how funny we are if you can open that up put more incentives in place to have people chase true undeneged Just talent on stage other than the type of talent that's going to get them the opportunities that are available within Canada We're going to see a huge huge boon and it's just going to be it's going to be off to the races and I just want to be a part of that and I just see it coming of like almost

An inevitability right because there is that hunger for it there's going to be something that comes along whether it's me or whether it's somebody else whether it's a Industry change maybe it's these rules the podcast game whatever it is something's going to push people and there's going to be a pendulum swing and the real funny people are going to come back. I totally believe this. Have believed this for a long time. It's just about positioning yourself and staying true to what it was the whole time. So you're not one of those people waking up and being the resonance thoughts. No, you were there the whole time. And when that does come, you have experience. I can say the wildest things on stage because I've done a podcast for three and a half years where I've talked about my most intimate. I've been through the most harsh breakups. I've

been through trying times with like the COVID stuff and having employees that I love that I don't want to treat this way. I don't want to ask what their medical status. They've come in and said, you won't ever do that to us, Nick will yet? I said, I can promise you I will not, right? And then you get pushed in that position where push comes to shove. But I've done it all publicly on this podcast. You can see who I am.

You can watch me all the way along. And now something comes up awkward on stage. You, you know, crowd work yourself into a tight spot. I'm not afraid to talk with anything. I'm not afraid to be vulnerable, right? If someone wants to church me about that, I'll go into it. There's nothing that scares me in that way. That gives me a leg up on people, right?

It allows me to go places other people won't. It allows me to have a lack of fear. Don't get me wrong. I have fear just to get on stage. I'm usually taking two or three fear dumps before I go on stage any show. If you see me at a show, I've shit at least three times before that show, right?

Like, it doesn't mean I'm not scared, but once I'm on stage, I'm not scared. I'm fearless, right? And you can watch people on stage where not only, like, the example I just pressed is like is a pretty, extreme one but there's people that go on stage and if it goes even slightly off book if they're not just performing their material like they freeze up you can see them be

uncomfortable I get when most people when there's a heckler in the crowd they yell something you can see the fear in the eyes of call how am I going to dress this is going to be okay when someone heckles me on stage you see my eyes light up I'm like ooh let's play let's have fun oh I can have fun right now let's go right because those are the magic my favorite laughs I've ever got on stage are never from my material not never I've had some really fun times like delivering a material and there's a different pride in that but just to be able to off the top of your head pull something out in the moment that is just so magic to that crowd in the experience that this audience had had that night calling

back to a joke all the way earlier just having the perfect line in that moment that just absolutely tears the house down like that is my favorite thing in comedy that's what keeps me coming back time after time is to be that person that's what I've tailored my comedy to be is to be in the moment in the flow state not so concentrating on this joke and that joke and later on in my career when I'm a five your 10-year comic that should be building an hour like this is not I'm saying like people are focusing on building their hour for Netflix when they're a year into comedy like you shouldn't even be thinking about that day or eight 10 years in like but Canada just has this

weird way of just telling people there's only one way to do comedy and you have to just be this professional comic right from the start if you want to do these shows and get in with these people and it just I'm just betting that there's other ways to do it there's other pass and if you look at podcasters and look at people like Joe Rogan Joe Coy down in the States they've proven that there's other ways to do it it just nobody's done it in Canada there's all these trailblazers and all these different ways to make it down in the States but nobody in Canada has the only way to make it in Canada is to get out is to get good enough to do enough credits to pay to build up enough money

where you can pay an immigration lawyer 10 to 20 grand plus have all these credits to get down to the States that's the only way to succeed in Canada other than the success of just being able to make enough money to around the yuck yuck circuit right that that is success too don't get me wrong that's just not what i'm pursuing you know what i mean i want to be the real deal i want to you know be doing rogan's club one day right the most successful canadian comics you know that tour make the most money or just around can't kana and aren't in the states they can't walk into the comedy store and get on they can't go to the mothership like nobody knows them that that's it doesn't mean they're not

successful but they're not successful in the way they haven't break through the barriers that i want to break through that they're targeting different things as the vision of success where I go into it right from the start with that in mind of this that's what I want to be that's where I want to go and I feel like that's what separates me at least a little bit from everybody else is just knowing where I want to be and also self-belief believing myself that I can get there I think that's another important thing where you see some really amazing comics that are talented and have it when they believe in themselves but it's one in 15 sets do you

see them go up with belief right and then the rest of the sets it's if it's a good crowd and it's going well they're confident. If it's going bad, they're shrunk in, their shoulders are forward. They're kind of kicking their feet. And it's like, how is the crowd supposed to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself? You know what I mean? Like, you can pick up on that as an audience member. You feel it. And you don't have the faith in them to deliver that that you're in trust worthy hands. We're, why if I watch, um, love is blind. Oh, yeah. Okay. But, okay. I have to be, I have to, you know, like, reality TV sucks. Like, just in general. Yeah.

here's what I love about love is blind. Love is blind takes a scenario that I really, really, really, really enjoy in that I think what, like, looks is one thing, but if you can't have a conversation with the person, I don't care who you are. That's not a fun way to live. I don't know if there's anything more appetizing to me than a good conversation. It's why I married my wife. It's why every day, even when we argue, it gets better.

not worse. It's just, you know, like she becomes more attractive as we go along. And I'm not trying to write a postcard here. I'm trying to be very specific in that like she's a woman who can call me on my shit. We can have deep conversations. We can have love. And the best nights is when we watch and love is, this is why I bring in love with blind enough two things. One is the one is the sunken shoulders and I'm going to get to that. But the other is is like, I watch it because when we watch a good episode of it, what it does is it spurs on conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll pause it and then we'll start talking about it, what the scenario is and what they're talking about is that, you know,

so I like the pods. Like the first three episodes, maybe four episodes. I really like that the rest of it. I'm like, whatever. I mean, like they're going to draw this drama at the end. They're going to say yes or no. And then they're going to come back for another. But whatever, you know, you watch shows to watch shows.

And certainly it's a nice break from watching every, the world is ending. They're out to get us. Yeah. I just, sometimes I'm just like, I can't handle anymore. this information. Like, I just, it is tough. It is.

But the reason I bring it up, one is, that's in defense of why I watch it. It's just, it spurs on camera. If I could find that in different shows, I would do it. Because, like, I love having a good conversation. Like, we watched 15 minutes of one of the episodes. Then my wife paused it, and we talked for like an hour and a half one. Yeah. And didn't even finish watching it.

It was just like, oh, man, I hope they bring out more seasons of this, just so I can have that. That's cool. One of the main characters of season, what is it, five? Is it five? I don't know. Nobody cares. But season five, let's go with.

he is this big giant of a man, right? Big strong strapping. And is sunk all the time. Never looks at the woman of his dreams in the eyes. And I'm like, dude, just have a little bit of self-believe in what you're saying and what you know to be true. But you're so like, you know, if that's what you, you know, like, and it down goes ahead. I'm like, this is, this is painful to watch. Like I understand, like, I don't know.

Maybe he's had great success with women. Or maybe there's a reason why he's struggling. Yeah. Like, go find out who you are. and then just embrace it. You make that sound so easy, hey? Well, I don't know. Just find out who you are and embrace it.

Come on. Confidence is like, it's a real, I'm thinking infectable, but that's not the right word, but it just spreads. Like, people can feel it's infectious. Thank you. It was the right word. It's not easy to find out who the hell you are. No.

Right. It's like borderline, nothing harder. Right. If you've been through some shit in life and you've built up, some defense but those are hard to strip down to get back down to who you were and some people have an easier job like i feel over the last couple years i've done a ton of work to find out who i am and through the podcast has been a huge tool in that but i also i feel so lucky because i've just lived this amazing life i'm so blessed i had just two super loving parents i had a whole community

of like super loving people that all wanted the best for me and you got to raise from that and no matter what you're going to have trauma and i have trauma right everyone does that's how the human being comes to be right you you You are who you are shaped by the things that you go through. And even if you live an amazing life, the hardest thing you go through are going to be those things that you've shaped against. And I can give myself all these paths in the back for coming through. And like I have a very good handle on why I am the way I am,

why I get angry at certain things. It doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean you don't feel them. But then I imagine, okay, now I lived a life differently. I had maybe one parent, maybe none at all. Maybe I grew up in foster care. Maybe I was assaulted as a kid. kid, maybe you had this, maybe I had that.

And now, and that work was hard for me to do, even though my traumas were just in the grand scale of things, nothing. And you go, man, now that's the kind of work I'm asking people to do. Like, that's, it's easy for me to sit on a high horse. I don't like, uh, not often will you hear me talk about privilege and those types of things just because of how co-opted is, but it is a real thing. I'm like, man, that is tough to become who you are, right? Especially if you have, like, a lot of baggage to go through to get down to it.

But the thing is, on the hardest sense, yes. On the easiest sense, you could just like turn this off immediately, right? How easy could we go? You could turn it off. You can be sitting there by yourself and just pick whatever issue, whatever topic you want. Yeah. And start either writing about it or start answering your own questions about it. You can get to the bottom of yourself relatively quick without having to do much work, without having to go outside.

We're not talking about money. We're not talking about living circumstances. You could get to, I was abused as a kid. That's a tough thing to get around. And then you go, I don't know. I actually don't know. I'm no therapist. I'm no nothing.

But I'm like, if that's what you get to, then maybe you need a little help and you go and you find the help. Right. Right? Like, I look at like, why am I so passion about certain things? And when I start to like, just sit there and ask myself questions and write it out and be like, oh, that's a whole. I need to think more about this.

Like before I can, I can sit there and be like, this is concrete. I need to dig into this more. That's a process in itself. That takes time. That's a journey of a lifetime. That's life. That's having fun with it. Yeah.

But getting to the point where you're just like okay with, like, listen, I'm just, one of the big ones right now, this was, this was an hour long conversation, okay? Okay. Was drugs. A buddy of mine was going to do an experience with a shaman because he was having some issues with porn and different things like that. So he's like, no, I'm going to get shaman. And so. So do you know which drug, which drug with the shaman it was? No idea.

Okay. This is what I say. Maybe I'm wrong on this. Okay. Wife and I are talking. And she's like, oh, it'd be interesting to see how that works out for it. I'm like, yeah, I don't care. She's like, oh, you don't care.

I'm like, I care about the individual. I don't care about the drug experience. Interesting. And she goes, why do you think that? And I'm like, well, because I've been down these roads. And I know it'll work like in the short term. Like, if there's anything about drugs that we know, drinking a beer works. It's immediate effect.

going to a shaman and getting led through an experience is going to work. I'll be the first to say I've tried different drugs in my time. Nothing too crazy, but I have. And it all works. Like, you know, I sit there and go, well, if I'm the one guy who can smoke weed and it never works. It's a lie. You smoke weed, you're going to have something be impacted. Yeah.

It works. So it's like, I don't need to hear about how the shawn works. I'm no longer interested in that. In saying that, I don't want a pigeonhole myself that I don't see and hear a different experiences for what they are. It's just like, will a shaman work? The answer is yes. The answer is undeniably yes.

But I figured out reading the Bible works. So I can just go, well, that's, okay, why does that work? Why do I get to just read something and it works and not have to have a guy to take illicit substances on anything? It doesn't mean that it isn't right for that person. For me, I go, I'm just not interested anymore. I think I've found something that works. I have so much thought on that.

So much thought on that. Interesting. I just find it interesting that your mind goes to that of just of not caring. Like I couldn't find that stuff any more fascinating. I so deep down the rabbit hole of psychedelic experiences, ayahuasca mushrooms, peyote, all of these different ones, all the different things that happens with shaman, without a shaman, self-led clinical settings, right? that's what my mom does for a living now she does ketamine assisted therapy like and she was so against any of the stuff just a couple

years ago when I try and sell her on it and now she sees the effects that it has what when you hit that point where you go okay I know it works yes I'm not interested anymore what information do you use to get to that point like how what is the understanding you have

of drugs and shongs because like every time you were describing that I wanted to let you finish but it almost every time. I was like, no, that's not how it works. No, no. Like that whole time you're talking, I was like, I disagree on almost every point you made all the way through that. Sure. This should be interesting. Right? Like a disagree of like, just like, going all the way back to what I said of like, finding out who you are is the most difficult thing you can do. And what you counter with is it doesn't cost you anything. It doesn't,

it just cost, really, you didn't say this, but the reality of it is it just requires you to be brave. If there's nothing scarier than going into the darker parts of your mind and doing that work, there's nothing scarier. People will do terrifying. terrifying, terrifying things to avoid. People will jump out of planes for the adrenaline rush to just to avoid going and sitting by themselves to ask those questions, right? I still stand by my statement. That's the most difficult thing any human being can do is go embark upon that path

of answering those questions, right? And now there's all these different ways. The Bible's another great one. I'm with you on that. I'm not disagreeing with that. And that works for you. But there's all these different mechanisms that help open doors, change frames of mind to help you go through that

and make it a little bit less scary or change the way your brain chemistry is working so that you can, because you'll just have defense mechanisms that will bring you up and protect you, right? People can dissociate completely from trauma that they don't even know what happens

they can't even talk and you need certain things and they're all just different tools that get you to this point. They do not work like yes. Like no drug works like, like yes, they can have a psychoactive effect but they can make it worse, right? Yeah, you can use psychedelics

to help work through traumas and stuff, but you can also use psychedelics and completely lose your grip on reality and go nuts, right? Like there's certain realities of it that you need to understand that they're good and bad to all of them. Where I'm curious is how your mind frame

around the drugs makes you so hesitant to give them the space for what they can be for people. Like I was just fascinated when you said, okay, drugs, you seem to say like, no, I get it. Like I want to. meant to work and I want him to be great. But I don't have any interest in it of like,

I'm trying to think of where to start. I want to start this conversation somewhere we can both jump in, but I'm trying. Well, you're asking, how did I get to black and white? How did you get so black, so black and white on it? It seems like there's experience. I got close to suicide. Okay, okay, okay.

And so I went, was that to do, was that within the framework of drugs? Is that where that comes in? Framework of, um, a whole bunch of things. I was just, can we talk about it? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I was looking for search,

I was searching for the answer to life, the truth to life. How old are you at this point? Ottawa. This is like, we're talking fresh. And we talked not long after this, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I opened the gate to anything.

Now, that's a stupid thing to do. I'll be the first to admit it. I just went, okay, let's open it up. Okay? And where were you before? Like, when it came to drugs, I would say I was fascinated when Joe Rogan, talk about ayahuasca and all these different things I'm like oh let's go meet the

creator let's go like that's that's interesting okay so it was interesting at some point but just now you're not at that place okay once again I just look at it and I go does it work do I think Joe Rogan's lying to me no I don't think he is at all but I just go back to a man's trying to get away from pornography and because that's that's where this comes black and white from if I'm trying to get away from pornography I just sit where I sit and go I know exactly what I can do to get away from from pornography. Start, right, yeah.

Read, no, read the good book. It has been, it has been the most, for me, it has been the most thing that has lit me up the most, in the most positive sense of being lit up. I don't have to take anything. I literally can be dead sober, read a book, pray a little bit, and things just fall into place. Yeah.

Okay. And I feel like, and I could be wrong, with a whole bunch of different drugs, that's the purpose, is to try and get things to kind of fall into place. And so I go, like, don't get me wrong. I've heard all the stories. If you want to go hear the stories, go listen to Joe Rogan.

When it comes to me, I go, like, I just, I'm not that, I'm not going down that rabbit hole. I've already experienced some of those things. And this was specific to pornography, I might add. Right, yeah, fair, fair, fair, for fair. I'm not sitting here and going, if you got, I just had a guy, has it come out yet, probably hasn't come out yet. Chris Little would be coming out here very soon. And he got away from cancer by, like, stage four, you're dead in a couple weeks. to now living seven plus years past

by taking like excessive amounts of garlic and a bunch of different things. I'm like, that's super cool. Yeah. Like that's super cool. I'm not saying there isn't applications. But when I think of going to meet the creator to make sense of life,

I open that door to a lot of different things. I experienced a lot of different things. They led me to different places I never want to go back to. I picked up the Bible, started reading it, went, wow, this is something. And started praying a bit. It felt like I had an experience with God

went oh I kind of get this okay have rested more into that and I go like when it comes to shams everything it's I don't care like if that's what people want to do they can go do and there's no judgment here I just go I don't really need to go digging down that hole because when you go will it work I guarantee it will work it like to me it's it's it's it's so proof in the pudding with so many people talking about it but other things work too and so I just I don't need to go talk about all these different things when I'm like literally just pick that thing up start reading about it actually get on your knees and pray once and actually mean it and see what happens oh yeah and like I bet you you'll be surprised and maybe I'm wrong you know I always

joked about the the on a flip side I always joke about honey and I take it before bed because it's like a sleeping drug for me some people do that and nothing happens yeah for me it's like every time I take it it's like holy crap and out I go yeah I don't know maybe it's just me yeah maybe I'm the only one that feels that way. And it could be. A couple things there. You say like there's no judgment there, but it does sound like there is. I know. But right? It sounds like there is. And it sounds like the judgment is coming from there being a better solution out there. And that's where I come from. It's an interesting spot for me to be the one because I'm so pro. But here's the thing. There is no judgment. This is the whole point of where society is. I have no,

I don't care what you do. For me, the whole purpose comes back for me. I'm not interested. I think you think you think you do. But from the way you speak, it's, it's, sounds like you really do care. I don't know. I don't know either. And I'm not trying to put that on you. But I'm just saying sitting here, listen to you, it sounds like there is care. And it comes from a good place.

And it's interesting for me to be on the opposite side because I'm so pro-psychedelics and all those things. But I'm also so pro-bibal and I'm so pro-whatever it is that people find. Sure. But it seems like someone could sit here, a real pro-drug guy, say, again, we're using not the right language for it, but we know where we're going. Yeah. And they could say, oh, someone wanted to get off porn and, uh. They took. psilocybin and it just overnight it changed their life i was going to know the opposite way he found

he found uh you're telling the story to me i'm this this person you say but he found the bible and it turned off and he goes oh no he yeah i know the bible works i know just cut it up right like yeah i know that i don't need to know nothing about it i know it works who cares it could do the exact same thing it's the exact same mindset it is you to listen to you it seems like you're so pro this thing that you found which is amazing and i'm so on board for two and i think more people need to find that you speak experientially about something that from the way you speak about it doesn't seem like you know very well. It sounds like you speak about drugs like someone that knows nothing about drugs.

Okay. A little bit. And I don't know this. I don't know your story. That's where I kind of wanted to. Can I ask, what is your personal experience with drugs? And I don't know where you want to draw the line of what you want to talk about because it does some people get touched with it.

The furthest I've gone is mushroom. Okay. Right. Within those, would you say on average, not like specifics, but do you think that holds a positive or negative spot within your life? I would say up until Ottawa had held a pretty positive experience in my life. Interesting. Now we're getting somewhere.

Can I ask this question? Did you do mushrooms in Ottawa? No. Okay. When was the last time you had done mushrooms before Ottawa? 18. 18. Tell then.

Okay. Again, if I ask any questions, you don't want to answer. I just sometimes these are good. I don't know how we got here, but hey. Me neither, me neither. But this is always my favorite pocket when you get somewhere. Was there an experience with either mushrooms or any other drug in Ottawa that has changed your feeling on it from before you went there until after? Or is this completely unconcerned and more of the realizations you had that put something else in front of you?

Okay, so that's an interesting question. I don't know. Possibly. what really shook me to the core Yeah Right Is on a while I kind of compartmentalized It's like parts of that happened

Parts of that definitely did not happen Okay Interesting can you speak more on that Well I just mean like I probably hallucinated for a full day Right Now whether that's lack of sleep Whether that's stress

There's lots of different things Or some big combination Of all those factors Yeah perfect storm right But you get the point Yeah Like I had a day that is up on a day

I didn't chalk that up to anything. I didn't chalk that up to drugs. I didn't chalked that. I just went, that probably didn't happen the way I remember it. And then I sat across the table from a shaman. I'm benoines to me. Oh.

I'm not drinking. In Ottawa still there? Oh, no. This is like six months afterwards. Okay, okay, okay. We're sitting across the table like this. She's got the wildest eyes, Nick. Like, I mean, like, not wild, like,

I'm not trying to make it sound like they were attractive. I mean, like, they're moving. Yeah. And I wish the camera was. was on so you could see, but you can't. And I finally just addressed it. I'm like, your eyes are doing this. And she's like, can you see that?

We locked eyes. And I just, I mean this in the best possible way. It felt like when you take a shot of whiskey. And it just kind of like, and it was the feeling I had in Ottawa. And so I went home that night and I prayed for the first time in my life and just prayed, just went. I don't know what's happening here, but I don't want it. I don't want anything to do with this.

This brought me to one of the lowest places in my entire life. I don't want this. And right there, I ask God to come in and just be like, you come in and be a part of my life. Yeah. And if this stops, I get it. Yeah. So that's what happened. So the next day I went, I could feel it.

It was immediate. And then I bought, you know, I didn't buy my first Bible. I think my mom brought me my first Bible. And I started reading it. Yeah. And just started praying. And ever since then, it hasn't happened remotely even close again. Yeah.

But in the time, since then, oh, strange things have. happen all the time. I don't need anything to be in my system at all. That's, I guess, where I'm at. You go searching for all these solutions in things. And I'm like, it's just sitting all around you. And once you realize that, that's probably the most unnerving thing under the sun. Right. Is that it's just sitting there. And you don't need to ask anything. Like, I mean, it's just so funny to me to hear you explain that. And I agree completely. But I think you could just take that snippet of like that last explanation you gave. Take that two minutes. and you could take someone that has gone to the exact same place you're sitting at through a different venue,

whether that be breathwork, whether that be hallucinogenics, whether that be the Bible, and you could say the same thing. And the way you described of like, oh, you just take a drug in it all better. That's not actually how it works. It reframes your mind and it shows you the ways of the air and then it's up to you whether you want to slip back into your old ways you want to do. It's so similar to the Bible. And if you actually like research, you've listened to some Joe Rogan in your life. I can give you some books on how almost every major religion was started through psychedelic journeys, right?

If you go back to the Greeks, everything, democracy, it all comes from that of like, there's so much more tied than you think. And all I hear in you is that you found something amazing that works for you and that you want more people to see the magic in it, right? And I feel like there's some real beauty to that. But I feel like I would just encourage you not to close the door completely. on not not not for yourself obviously do whatever you want but just in the way you speak about i think there's i think that you've there's still a lot more meat on the bone of your understanding of some of these other things that would be so close to exactly what you've experienced through the the manifold that you got which is religion which is amazing and i encourage if people can go

through that great my thing is just whatever it takes you that point whatever gets you looking inside whether it's the good book whether it's the good mushrooms whether it's the good you know Like, whatever it is, whether it's breath work, whether it's just meditate. Because my biggest thing, like, I've never even done. I'm not even the drug. I have a huge respect for them. I find them fascinating, but I'm not the big drug. Other than the weed, that's really as far as I go.

I'm pretty tame. But meditation, that's a huge drug, right? That meditation and it's very religious. It's not tied to one religion because that's just not the way it was brought to me, right? Like the way that it opened up to me is more of my own religion. But I, before I do any, before. I do any live show, before I do my show on Thursdays, I go to my truck. Seven, a show starts at eight, seven o'clock.

I'm always running around, doing set lists, bringing people in. At seven o'clock, I go out to my truck. And for 20 minutes, I put on this, you know, calm and music, a little bit of ocean, and I just emptied my mind. And I meditate, and I get into that space. And then the cue in the song, I know it's been 20 minutes happens. And I talk to God. And what that looks like for me, it's not the biblical guy, it's not this God,

that guy, it's just the university God. just say thank you for everything. I say thank you. I'm going to get choked up to talk with this just emotional stuff. But like I always say a huge thank you for my parents for raising me to be the person I could be to have the skill set to go do what I'm about to do. I'm thankful for this venue for allowing me to do it. I'm thankful for myself for never giving up. I'm thankful for this. And then I always throw in some random ones. I just become so trying to become so thankful for everyone around me and everyone in my life and everything that has happened to that. I don't even know who I'm talking to. And that puts

me in a mindset that allows me to go and perform and that's very personally it's very religious right it's not written any book it doesn't come with much bible verse or anything but it is what it is right and that's special to me and that's like amazing and it's hard to even explain that to people like i did my best there giving you a little cold notes but like it misses so much of the magic of what that truly is to me in those moments of like what i'm going through and what i'm feeling and and the feeling in your body that you get to of just that like almost like energy going through of just like tapping into that source whatever that is I just think it's silly for me to ever sit seeing how many different ways people can get to that point.

And that's what's important that you get to that, that you find something that can connect you to something deeper that can get you to that level. Whether that's the Bible, whether that's mushrooms, whether that's this, whether that's Sean, whether that's therapy, whether it's any of these, just leaving the door is wide open to anybody to find what's going to pull them there. And I feel like if you encourage that, you are maximizing the true word. of what Jesus was trying to spread to use the terms of the room, right? Because I feel so comfortable talking in those terms. That's what I grew up with. I was raised Christian, right? Like, that's what I'm most familiar with.

I just later in life has taken in all these other ones that I also, well, then, you know, I got a lot of Buddhists in me. I got a lot of this. I got a lot of that, right? I don't know. Yeah. Again, it just seems to me, I think you'd be amazed if you opened your heart up to a little bit more of some of these drugs.

I think you'd have a much different outlook on it. That would give you a little bit more time for it. Well, well, here, let's, you've been sharing, right? And part of, part of, uh, me telling the story is, is opening up more, right? Yeah, yeah. So I don't approach guests like that. All right, I hope I don't, you know, like when, uh, when I, when I say it like that, I've been, you know, now I'm going to have to go think about it, right?

Jeez, you know, that's what, uh, a good guests do. That's what these podcasts are for, baby. But, uh, one of the things that I'm very cognizant of is like, I don't have all the answers. I don't mean to come off like I do. I have what, as you've pointed out, right? Like, what does work for me? Just like somebody else has something that's worked for them.

And once again, I go, it may come off like there's judgment. Yeah. But I feel like that's more on the other side of the table than me trying to do that. Interesting. Okay. Because I just, I go like, listen, if you want to go do whatever you want to do, I, good. But on here, I get to explore what's working for me. Right.

And I guess that's where I was coming from. Yeah, and that makes more sense. Yeah, for sure. So for me, I go like, I want to understand why this works. So I get dig deeper into it. When I was open everything, it's overwhelming. Yeah. To use what you're talking about.

I just think, like, lots of things can work. For sure. Are they all right? I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe not. I have no idea.

Might not be a way of knowing. Maybe it doesn't. Right? Right. There's the exploration. There's the journey of trying to figure more things out and everything else. 100%. And where I sit, I just, I've just landed on one that when I start,

started doing it. The level of peace in my life didn't diminish, didn't go up a little bit, and went through the roof. And it changed you as a person. I got, luckily, I got to know you, you never fully know someone. It still, it still makes me very uncomfortable to talk about. Like I don't, I don't, I don't like talking about my, my spiritual life on the podcast, because it's something that's very, um, personal. But in fairness, Nick, like we have a relationship that's gone back now a few years. So when you want to talk things, I've always told you, you got questions. Let's talk about it. because I don't have all the answers.

And one of the things on here is I encourage the listeners make up their own bloody mind because whether they like what I say or don't say this, that's what they love about an audience. They're going to tell you what they agree with, they disagree with. Maybe they'll all be championing one or not. Both of us are just the conversation. Regardless, that's what this is about. It's the pursuit

of exploring difficult conversations. I joke that I want to normalize, still one of their terms, normalize talking about it. Because to me, so many of us understand there's a whole bond going on in the world that can't be seen, but we don't talk about it. We act like it's this freaky-diki world when it isn't.

Like this is goes back to ancient times where they're talking about different things. So to me, like I just go, this is what's working for me. Now, is the way it's working for me and any of that? Like, could I do it differently? Sure. I don't, like people when they come on, I'm cool with whatever they want to talk about. I'm just not actively going out and exploring. It's not what's interesting.

You know, like Jordan Peterson says, right? attention is so important. What calls your attention? What, what, what, what, like, like, the burning bush and moat. Look, it was something that caught his attention. That pulled them to go walk and investigate. And if you pursue that, that is the pursuit of the truth. That is pursuit of God, right?

Like, that's what it's supposed to be. And that's a lot of the religions, all religions talk about that of, like, what calls attention to you, right? Like, pay attention to yourself. I also think, like, when you're, when you're investigating, you remember when I had a Bozer on UFC? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just laughed at me. You're like, you don't know anything.

about UFC. In fairness, if I was interested in UFC and you listen to me, interview Bozer, a year later, let's say, let's take comedy, how you've done it, podcast. You'd be like, man, that was a way, I assume, like, this is hypothetical folks. I haven't interviewed them again. I haven't found this huge track record of UFC fighter. But I assume it'd be like, wow, that was, that was something. Like, you really improved. And so when I talk about drugs, I sound probably like Bozzer.

That's fine. Yeah. I guess I never want to be Joe Rogan. And this is just me, like, this is who I am. I don't want to be Joe Rogan where I can tell you, you got to try all these different things. Will I search it? Like, will I actually bring people on and talk about her? Sure.

Like, I mean, I'm not against it. Yeah, 100%. There's tons of interesting conversations out there. I'm never going to exclude different views from coming on the podcast. Yeah. And I wasn't trying to insid you. No, no, no. But where where my brain goes is like, I'm really curious about this, this spiritual world.

and one of the things that seems to make a lot of sense to me, good or bad, is the Bible and everything there. So I go, let's dig into that. Now, if you're, you know this. If you're wanting to take whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Even if you just want to smoke some weight. There's some guys that probably have a podcast that can talk about the ins and outs and please do not do this or you got to try this.

Or if you do this and don't do that. And you're like, that's a lever of expertise I will never be at ever. Like I just, like I can't imagine. maybe in five years will laugh at me saying that loud. Yeah, we'll both be here in Rostasuits, yeah. But, but like people, farmers, cattlemen have joked about Joe Rogan because he doesn't know the ins and outs of all the egg.

Well, he's never going to be that. So if you're looking for that at a Joe, give him grace because he is willing to talk about anything. Right. But he doesn't know everything. And I guess that's where I sit. And you can pick and choose, right? Like if those farmers go listen to an episode like,

oh, what's a far? like Joe Saladin with like regenerative farming and something that's a fascinating conversation that he doesn't know about, but that would be like you bringing on, you know, a drug guy to talk about, those kind of things. Same with me. I'm not a drug guy either. But I love that idea. It goes back to everything.

We started the conversation with pursuing what is interesting and what works for you. And I got a hair rate my eyeball and trying to track down there. With that, with that mop on your head, I'm surprised. I know. It's always in my mouth. It's in my eyeballs. It's a whole thing. thing. But man, I would love to, if I can flip the script on you, how long after Ottawa

do you think it was when we sat down at my place in Empton, you came on my podcast? A few months. A few months, yeah, I was going to say, I can't imagine it was more than two months. That was very interesting to me. And this, I don't know if this will be interesting in your audience. I think it will be. I got to know you for probably maybe a year, maybe a bit over that actually at that point. We'd know each other. I'd done your pos, you had done my. That was the first time we sat in your studio. Yeah, yeah. And who was the guy that was in there?

Oh, uh, Brennan, I believe at that point. I've had a couple of different guys. Oh, you've had a few different Jamie's out of you. Oh, I've tried. I've tried. Trust issues, maybe. It's tough. It's tough.

I'm working through them. But to watch you come in, it was last minute. I think you had texted me, hey, I'm going to be in town like me. Let's do a podcast and me kind of thrown it together. And I didn't really have anything planned. I just knew me and you can have a conversation, but everything. But you walked in and you looked different. You looked different, like you looked like you had been through something.

I didn't know what it was. And throughout that conversation, we got to have a very cool conversation. I'm not even trying to plug my own podcast. And I should. No, you should go, go like, I mean. Listen to the episode that Sean did of my podcast. I think it, no, you've been on my podcast. I think it might be the second appearance of.

Oh, no. It's definitely the second appearance because. Yeah. It might have even been the third. It would have been the third because the first one we did remote. Remote one I came in. We did it at Hancox. That's right.

So that would have been the third. third time you've been on my podcast, but you looked. Here, wait, wait, wait, wait before, wait you're going to find it. You're going to find it because I'm like, you might as well, you might just find this. That's great. I also could have done it. Sorry, I'm making you do the work on your own podcast. No, no, no. This is one, one, one day we, one day we both. One day we both. You know, I try, here's my fat fingers. It says con denaro poides. That's what I tried, I tried, I tried getting pondubs. It, it, it wants to, there it goes. Okay, let's, Let's pull it up here.

See what it says. I'm going to see if I can beat you to it. June 6, 2022. What's the number? 138. Okay. So if you go to episode 138, you'll see a conversation that me and you got to have, Sean. And when you walked in the door, you looked at it.

I didn't know anything we hadn't talked. I knew that you had gone to Ottawa and then you had gone radio silent. I didn't know if something happened. I didn't even know if. Well, most people don't know. And most people, some people ask, some people are nervous. to ask. I was nervous to ask and that was the first thing before we even started the podcast.

I said, can I ask about Ottawa and can I ask about the, because I was so surprised to get that text from you because the last thing I had heard and I had texted you to make sure okay, like when I started, hey, hopefully it did nothing happen. You said, no, I'm fine, just some stuff, right? Didn't get into it. But I can notice when you walked in that you looked visibly different, like a different human being than the last time I had seen you. And we had a conversation and I got to see that you had been touched.

you had you had seen something, you had felt something different, that you weren't the same man. You know, that there's that saying, no man never, uh, no man never enters the same river twice for the river changes and so does the man. Exactly. And it was one of those. And that's always happening. But sometimes something changes so significantly that you can visually and like, emotion like, like just spiritually feel it. I could feel it in the room and I was going into that conversation, whoa, I don't know what we're about to conversation about.

But something interesting has happened. And I got to hear about your experience in Ottawa and how it affected you. And it was fascinating, fascinating conversation. And I think it was one of the first conversations because you'd been radio silence. You hadn't really talked about it. It was one of the first times pulled out of it. And it was so interesting because I got to see you change multiple times before that. But not to the same degree.

Because when I first met you, you were podcasting. You were very much trying. I hope you don't take this in a wrong way, but very much trying to be. Joe Row and very much now you see you're on your own pace you're trying to be Sean Newman but at that point you seemed to be wanted to be a little bit Joe Row and you were a little bit scared to rock the boat and we would talk and there was some COVID stuff going on the podcast but then afterwards you were very um knowledgeable of it and I thought oh that's interesting that you hadn't that you hadn't been talking about that on your pockets but you didn't want to get into it at the time and I saw you go through a big shift where you became a new person you became this person that was going after the stuff and then got to see you make more shifts as you became like a leader in in that area Then you went to Ottawa and something big change, right? And it was like, oh, I've seen, I've seen Sean grow and change before, but something's different. And now since then, this is, no, I've seen you before, but like in different, in different, in different aspects. I saw you at like your, your Sean Newman presents where you're in very much hosting.

This is the first time me and you got to just be one on one. And you get to get a sense of a person. And I can notice those, like, I can notice the change, but now the change is time to settle in and you look like a new person. Like I feel like the Sean Newman I knew before Ottawa and the Sean Newman I got to see shortly after Ottawa were two different people. And now you're still that second person, but now you've kind of grown into it. And you see it and you have a different energy and you seem to carry a different energy. And I feel like that is, if I had to guess, it would be the addition of religion into your life. And it seems like a very positive change.

I feel like you seem more grounded. You seem more confident and in touch with who you are as a person and what you're trying to do. you've mentioned a couple times of like feeling that and and and just like you spoke about it in the specific of how it makes you feel to do to read a little bit of a Bible and do a little bit of prayer and what that feels like in the night I'm curious to ask you of like comparing yourself from before and after going to that experience having this you know seems so fucking cliche I almost called a come to Jesus moment that's just too that's too on the head for it I couldn't even do it myself but like going through that in the abstract not just on the nightly

basis of like what it makes you feel in the moment as a person going through that who you are now today how is your life change how do you how do you carry yourself in the world like how how can you as sean newman put towards how that changes overall you're asking since since since i'm asking the big question like like i know it changed you in a huge way and i've covered a lot of why that is how what are the biggest changes how is that manifest in you how do you how do you how do you carry yourself like are you different to to your wife to your kids like like what is it uh i don't i have i i i want to make a bunch of guesses i want to say are you this are you this are you this but i don't want to i don't want to um taint it by giving you ideas i want to hear it right from your

mouth i'm trying to ask i want to ask the question but i don't want to put anything on to i'm trying to ask it as vague as possible just to hear your take i want to hear you speak on it that's what i want to hear you speak on it because i can feel it and i can see it but i haven't got the experience and maybe you have and i just haven't caught these podcasts but i want to hear in your words what that change has been to you. Since I started reading the Bible? Yes. I went to Ottawa.

No, not the Ottawa. Since you started reading the Bible, that's the question I want to ask. I talk about the shaman a lot, but not on this thing. This is the first time it's probably ever been talked about. It was the first time in my life, cement, concrete, like, this is real.

Yeah. I didn't dream this. This didn't happen in, you know, some far off land. This actually happened. Doesn't mean this person was evil or any sense of that. I don't mean it in any way. just that the energy was real.

Like what is happening here is real. For sure. This is happening. And it took me to the core because for the first time in my life, I went, what actually happened happened. That was the moment. And that night, I put it up into God's hands and I said, if I'm supposed to go down this road, you put things in my way and I'll go down this road.

Or you choose the other path for me. It's a very electric feeling. I had sent a text off to one of my brother's friends. I said, I'd like a place to stay tonight if you're around. And I wasn't sure what was going to happen because I'm just leaving it to time and fate now, you know, big guy. And before they could come around, you know,

and talk to everybody was staying that night, I'd had a text, you got a place always. Good. And I left. And that night, I've never, you know, have you prayed to God before? Well, I mean, I don't know. As a kid, I think.

I think I was praying all the time. What annoyed me was I'm like, nothing's happened. I don't know what I'm doing. And for the first time in my life, I went, I know exactly what I'm praying for. And for me, it was protection because I understood that there was more of the world than I could see. That's like admitting, like,

there are bad things out there that I have zero control over and you can't see them. It sounds like insane to say it out loud, but that's the truth. So I got down on my knees and I prayed. And I felt it. I don't know how to explain it, Other than just it was like, oh, okay.

Went to bed, prayed one more time before the morning, went out, and I just felt it. And so then at that time, I had been reading a little bit of Jesus. So I'd read a little bit of Gandhi, and I've been reading all these different people and seeing how the brains work, you know, going back to right to the start, and we're talking about shows and the attention to detail. And I finally just went, why don't I read a little bit of Jesus? Why is Jesus such a foreign swear word to me? Yeah.

So I just started reading the red letters, but without the context of the story, it didn't make sense. When I came back, I got home, hugged my wife, hugged my wife, gave me a kiss, hug my kids, and went, this is what's most important in me. I've been saying this all the time, but I'm actually not doing things. I'm like chasing my dream in Calgary and Emmett. This is why building the field of dreams. The Lloyd is so important to me.

And so I started, I literally got my mom to bring me a Bible, I think. And I just sat on the back deck in the middle of summer in the mornings after everybody was gone. I said, okay. I mean, I sound a little, this is going to sound a little insane. But I was just like, all right. I'm just going to start reading this thing aloud. I'm going to pray at the end.

And if you got anything to say, you just let me hear it. And if I don't hear anything, that's fine too. And, you know, I've done the meditation where, like, the breathing, and where you can just feel it. By reading and praying, which took me like, I don't know, 12 minutes, maybe the first time, maybe it's less than that because I was like,

this is really weird and what am I doing? I had it immediately. And I had it immediately. And then immediately. And now it's kind of like going in the gym where if I don't do it, I'm like, I've missed something today. Yeah.

And what did I miss? And so then, you know, and what is it done in life? It's really opened my eyes to conversations I'd turned off immediately. So when you talk about like, one of the things I don't want to turn my brain off to is when people say, you know,

like I did shrooms and saved my life. That's interesting. Like that led me to the guy sitting across from me going talking about garlic and saving. And I'm like, wow, that's interesting. But for me, when I came, back from that experience, I just went, how many conversations have I turned down because of the word Bible, Jesus, God, something along those lines was put into it because I just didn't want to

hear any of it. And it turns out quite a bit. And so people have got to see, you know, like the addition of talking some Christianity. Do I agree with it all? I don't know. Like I, you know, we've had a Catholic on. We've had a Pentecost along. We've had this on. They've all talked. And I'm like, I don't know. I just feel like for the first time, I'm sitting back watching these people argue about what God is. I'm like, this is fascinating. I don't know if any of this is true. I'm going to continue reading my Bible and praying. That seems to be working.

I have no idea about the rest of it. And how has it played out in life? I don't know, man. Like, it just, like, I'm very clear on what I want to do. I helped with a protest in Lloyd. I never thought I'd be that person. But I prayed on it and made sure it was the right thing. And it doesn't mean I got it right.

It doesn't mean the protest was right. There's lots of things that can go wrong and right and everything else. but that's clear like my mind is cleared on where I want to go yeah and to me that's what it's done it's solidified for me my wife and family I've been saying it

for four years basically I'm never going to become famous if I lose my wife and kids I said that like a mantra I never didn't do it don't care who comes on here I'm never going into the states if they aren't coming or what have you except if you know it like when I look back at it I was chasing Calgary I was chasing it I was leaving my home base a ton

and I want to be around my kids And I want to be around my wife. I don't think that's such a bad thing. I actually think it's pretty good. Yeah. And so then you go, well, does that mean you can't have success and all the great things that come with it? No, I just have to look at the world differently

and trying to attract people to where you're sitting and then have conversations like this so they hope that they move the needle for them. Does that can instruct everybody go to re-bile? Man, I give a crap what everyone does. I mean that in the most loving sense. But if this isn't for you, that's fine. For me, it works for you.

And it's giving me a level of peace that's something else. Yeah. And you, uh, when you say, you kind of, you kind of almost shrugged it off, but you say like, it cleared my mind to straight enough, like what I want to do and has clarified the path. That's not nothing. That is huge. Do you know how many people in the world would benefit having a clear mind on what they want to do, having anything, whatever that is that brings them to that point.

That is a huge gift and a huge skill to have that you can like bring forward and, and, and have a step up on everyone else operating in the world when you know what you want to do and you have something that clears the path for you like that, right? Well, it was Jordan Peterson who did it for me first. He's the guy who says, pick a goal, aim at it and chase it. And if you start walking in a direction, wouldn't you know you get a little stronger, a little tougher? You get closer to your goal and then you realize, oh, that isn't the right one.

And you kind of change the trajectory and you keep going. That's where they started. I blame Jordan Peterson for all of this. Oh, yeah. If it isn't Jordan, I sat with Tanner in a day, folks. Me too. I'm right with you. Sat with Tanner in a day.

He's a guy who's, you know, he, he, He quit the Alberta Prosperity Project because he realized, younger guy, younger than both of us, I think he's 24. How old are you 10? 24? I think 24. And he removed, like, he's got a degree in economics.

Fantastic. Grew up in the church and Bible camp. So he can blend economics with biblical story like I've never seen anyone do. So he's a part of the Alberta Prosperity Project. And he backs out of it. And I ask him about it. He goes, because I just feel like I'm called to do this.

Yeah. And I'm going to go do this. that. Yeah. And so then me and him sit here and argue about, you know, he thinks the highest good is Jesus. And I'm saying, well, I think it's something, you know, Jordan Peterson's, and it's just led me to where I am.

Yeah. But you're both pursuing something. We're both pursuing what we believe to be the truth. Yes. Right? And so one of the things is you start talking, like, you start talking against the grain or you start focusing on what is going on. And then just try and illuminate it with a little bit of like common sense, truth.

You're going to have all these things push back. back at you. And then you're going to have a choice to make. Well, am I going to continue or am I going to be done? And Ottawa is that in a culmination. Like, I never want to go back to that place. I love Ottawa. Like, I loved what happened in Ottawa. Yeah, the people. But to me, it wasn't this, it wasn't this bouncy house and great place and everything else. There was wild things going on in Ottawa. If there is such a thing as spiritual warfare, which I would say, everyone agrees there is and I say that tongue and cheek because obviously not everyone agrees that nobody half people don't even know what's going on but for the people who realized they all go yeah

that's the thing well I mean in Ottawa just imagine this there's no world war one there was no man's land right allies on one side access on the other side if you walked in the middle you were dead I assume spiritual warfare is very much the same yeah and Sean walked in the middle of it for a week you can get felt it you can get well I didn't know that I was feeling I didn't understand what the hell was going on but I look back at it and I go oh yeah yeah there was there was some of that going on for sure. Okay, when you met this, again, just I know if already I said this a million times, but feel free to say no one of any of these questions.

You're doing what, what audience members have been begging me, you know? Yeah, I feel like they're going to like it. I just don't want to, no, I feel like this is fascinating. I just don't want to ever put you in a bad person. You were so kind of invite me out here. I don't want to make you, ask you things that are going to make you on cover, but, but I'm going to, um, the time where you met the, the shaman, and that was when it pushed you to go for your first read of the Bible, kind of,

pushing to that. How far removed from that was Ottawa? Roughly like ball perries. Is that like four to six months? I go. Okay. So there's some serious time. So was that?

You mentioned something that I heard. You said when you met that trauma, you saw the wildness in the eyes and that's what pushed you go to the Bible. You said that made you know that that day was real. Are you speaking to that day that you think you hallucinated in Ottawa? I won't be able to show this to people who are listening because we have no cameras. Okay. But give me one second. I don't know. Okay. Can you see that? Yeah. I didn't think that day happened. Now for the audience

member, I am praying. Is that you? I'm praying to the peace tower in Ottawa in the middle of Ottawa while the protest is going on. Who took that picture? Luke Cherabino. Okay. So you did in your head from the time that you left Ottawa, that day didn't happen that moment and that picture did not happen. I don't know what the day, but for sure that moment I'm like, I had to have dreamed that. There's no way I was that far gone. And I just mean like that desperate. Yeah. that I called on God to end the protest because I wanted to go home and I couldn't. This brings on hold. I know.

No, no, this is, this is fascinating. I just, like, I had like 12 questions in a row plan, but then I hear one thing and it brings you to a whole not. And my thing is I don't talk about this much because I'm still trying to come to terms of a lot of it, right? And you probably still need to understand what? So, so I, for the listener, I've been going, you know, since I got back from Ottawa, I've seen a psychologist every single month. Even when he says, Sean, you're not crazy, you can go back to living life. You're actually a great human being and a bunch of other things.

And Dean's a fantastic guy. And I'm like, no, I'm going to keep coming because I'm trying to get to the bottom of, and maybe there is no bottom. Maybe, you know, like, it's like, what's out there? I don't know. I just, I had a day that I never thought I'd ever get to this low point in my life to where I think I see kind of an Abrahamic God, if you would. Guy in white robes, big white beard, everything, standing on the top of the Peace Tower.

And I'm praying to him, saying, just let me go home. Let's just let's end this right now I want this to be it I want this to be done I have no idea if I was completely out of my mind at that point but I will say about the entire thing

until that picture gets sent to me I'm like that I'm like that didn't happen and then you see it and you go oh no that did happen and then when I talked to Luke about it and I started talking about all the things that I remember that day he's like I can't believe you remember all that

because he was around me and he could obviously see something was off right and yet he talked about lots of different things you know and well, hence the picture, you know? And the picture's like, well, the picture is worth a thousand words. You know exactly what's going on.

It's like worth 10 million words to me. It's clarifying. It's actually like grounding like, oh, okay. That actually happened. You said it brought to that point where you were praying to God to end the protest so you could go home, but you couldn't. What was it that you felt that you couldn't go home? Was it just that it was your? role to be there that you had work that needed to be done,

that you couldn't leave the community that was there fighting, that you felt apart of it? Can you speak to what felt like it was holding you there, that you couldn't go home? Sure. Man, this is where it gets a little bit wonky, okay? I live in a wonky, baby. If this isn't wonky enough.

You got the right guy in front of you for wonky. There was a guy that I met along the way, Tien, lovely human being out of Calgary area. And there was a white truck parked in front of where weed parked, parked in a back alley, downtown Ottawa, and he said, oh, it's the Archangel Michael, we can't leave until that truck moves. That's going to be the sign, right? And so you go like, what? Like, except this was happening at exponential rate. Yeah, yeah. Like, I can't know and explain. If you're in Ottawa, you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you weren't there, you're going,

what? And I'm going, I don't know how to better explain at that. There were people walking all over the place that were either absolutely losing their minds in front of me or something else was at foot. And I tried to hold on to this like world view of like, okay, this is just kind of funny and whatever. But you eventually either- But you were feeling something true. Well, I mean, it's just, it's just what is it? So it drives you to this point where I don't want to be here anymore, but I can't leave

because supposedly God's holding this thing here, which isn't a sane thought. And honestly, like when I used my rational brain, it took me two seconds to go to get out of that spot. Like, that's what it took. Yeah. It was an irrational thought. I know now it was. Like, because when I finally went and talked to the front desk, like, we figured it out in, I say two seconds. Maybe it was 10 minutes.

Yeah. But literally we were out and the way we were going and out the door we went and nothing was holding me there. But at the time, I thought for sure, the only way this was changing was if God came down to earth and did it for me. and it was um well i don't remember it like to me i mean like i can't believe i'm saying that on a podcast i know and and i can see you struggling with it and it's it's hard for me to watch yourself because this all makes so much sense to me like i feel like i so feel what you're feeling because i feel like that was me

years ago like not and it happened over a longer time somewhere you got just like this so solid dose of like because I grew up in a very similar town to to Lloyd Minster slave like right very much was against anything woo-woo anything and I was and I would laugh and I had the same defense mechanisms that prevented me from starting to to feel it but over time from probably the age of like 22 to like 26 that slowly bucked and broke apart and I could see myself where I would give more credence to it and weird thing the more I did the more weird things would happen and cool little universal things that came into my life what happened I would take notice of them and the more I took notice of it the more I

kind of leaned into it the more it would come and it happened probably over like yeah like four years but over those four years there were so many moments where I had that that that just um what would it be that um like just two diametrically opposed like this thing I grew up with I know this is reality and this just does but it also feels true like it this it feels like two separate eyes that just not that they can't fit together and you can hold them both but I couldn't let myself hold them both I was not person I was rational I was sure you're trying to imply then that or say I don't know that essentially it's my way of rationalizing what happened oh no no every

yes in a sense because like how human beings are it's us rationalizing everything we see like we're just that's what the brain is the rationalization machine like yes but not in the way that I think you're saying I think you had I think we all have a certain way that we cope with the world that from the time we're born you're just taking in sensory information and you you you build a reality and you build that with the community around you you build that through society and religion used to hold a very very important point in that and what we all collectively build and then we lost it and we never really looked to the consequences we never really look to what's happening as society to be these meaning making machines

as Jordan Peterson likes to call us with this huge hole in it, right? And now to keep that hole, and just to keep a scaffolding, you almost need to cement in that hole just to keep the structure of it, right? Because you can't just have a giant hole in the middle of who you are. Everything else will collapse, right? So you build this rational, nothing.

If it's woo-woo, if it's spiritual, if it's God, right? And I'm not even speaking to you. I'm speaking to myself right now. I operate in the world. And like the society around me told me, if you believe in God, you're stupid. You're an idiot, right? And I built up this huge thing with scaffolding and all this stuff.

But there is something that, fits in that hole and it's a very very turbulent very traumatic experience to have something true like the spirit of god in this context or universe whatever it is that you want to put it you can use all these different words come fill that hole back in but you've built all this scaffolding in it and you're almost at odds with yourself of like this true thing that feels like it's fit in there but i've my identity is built off of having all the scaffolding holding this hole in place and it almost needs that breaking point where for me that was over four years it slowly like melted into the scaffolding and just like dissolve the

scaffolding whereas like you from the sounds of it sounds like that true spirit of like that that hole that was in you came smashing through knock the law and you didn't even know what to think of like what is real what isn't real is this real what was that before then right like you have all these questions again i don't mean to put anything on you but that's my best estimation i've thought lots about it i bet you have i just don't talk about it you know obviously now we aren't so yeah cats out of the bag but it's well over a year ago like my life has been and I would say is better now than it ever has been. You know, and Peterson talks about going into the dark places, you know, and slaying the dragons

that lay there. But I mean, that's a very dangerous thing. When he talks about that metaphor, I just feel like I lived it. And I didn't live it over one night and it was slayed and out that I came. It has been, I don't even know if I came out. Yeah, you might be still on. Still on it. Yeah.

But for sure, it took probably closer to a year of, and I remember being a, and I remember being and down in advance crows in St. Louis and a couple of them saying this is going to take time. Yeah. And me be like, I don't know. And you know, and now here I say, I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I guess it takes a time. I guess it did.

So. Okay, now I'm trying to remember. So when you met that, that shaman that kind of pushed you back, that you felt something in the world that, that made you go to that Bible and to start reading and pushing that, was it the moment when you got the Bible and you started reading into that?

and you started to feel the feelings that it made you feel, is that what made that day in Ottawa feel real to you? Or was it already just the reality of like whatever that conversation was with the shaman that started? Because when you told the story, you said, I met the shaman and I started thinking, was that day real? Or was that just the way you told the story?

Was it you going back and finding a religion that then? I thought, when it came to Ottawa, there was a day in there that I wasn't sure that was real. That's the one day. Yep. when I was back here in Alberta, talking to the Shama made it all real. I went, oh, I have lived, like I've experienced this before.

This isn't something new. Yeah. And then things started to fall in the place after that. You know, it was the picture. It was an email from some different people that were just, you know, reaching out and seeing how things were. And I was like, oh, okay, all right. When I prayed, I got a level of peace.

and you know, and I think more about this because it took some time to finally get over my like fear of reading the Bible. I mean like, I had a listener, you can imagine this, Nick. I had a guy reach out and say, you know, I love your podcast.

And I apologize to this guy because he's probably listening right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, what you've done for me was like, I laughed aloud when I read it because he's like, the religious stuff is a bit much. And I laughed. I'm like, man, I can't believe

that's what people are seeing right now, you know? But then when I think about it, I'm like, well, that's, I mean, been dealing with this now for over a year. And it slowly starts to seep out until finally the damn person, you just start talking about it. This is COVID all over again. At the beginning, you mentioned it. I don't know if we touch this. Pretty soon you just like, screw this. Let's talk about it and let's get to the bottom of it. And so it has gone. And it's funny, if you hop in at a later stage, you're like, what is Sean talking about? But if you go back through roughly, you can see it.

You can see, you can see something went on that I was wrestling with and trying to get back And so, no, like the shaman cemented for me. There is a world that I cannot see. Some of it is very good. Some of it is obviously the opposite, which is very bad. I don't think there's anyone who can convince me different. There is good and evil in this world, and the world that can't be seen has the same bloody thing.

Yeah. Okay. Now, you call what evil you want to call it, I'll call it. Yeah, put whatever names on it you need to. But that's what's sitting there. And so then I just went, Okay. So when I came back from the shaman, I wanted to do everything but the Bible. Even though I prayed to God. Like, I mean, you think about it. It's like some days I'm bullheaded, you know. And over time, I started reading the, that's why when I talk about Gandhi, you know, this is why it's hard to talk about because I bounce all over the place. And you're sitting there trying to make sense of it and probably listeners too.

But by not talking about it, this is why it's jumbled. So when I come back, I'm reading about Gandhi. I'm reading about all these different people. because I want to see with the big leaders of the day that leads me to Jesus eventually I just start reading the New Testament now I'm into Hebrews and parts of the Bible I totally do not get

parts of the Bible are like holy crap that's speaking right to me and with it all everything the level of people that have come to my life awesome

the peace in life great like I just beyond great the conversations have got more meat to them I'll give it that

You know? I feel like I hear more of you in the podcast as it goes on. And like that's obviously going to be a natural trajectory. If you're podcasting more of you, you're going to find your voice more. But it is noticeable. I feel like it, I feel like what the Bible does for a lot of people and does different things for everybody,

obviously. But it gives people permission to truly be who they are and live with who they are. And not to feel shame, not to feel any of the side. Like there's something with God's love that gives you a gift. that allows you to navigate the world in a different way than those that don't have it. I don't know if you agree with this. I might just be just speaking on my ass here, but I don't know.

I think it comes through. I have another question. We've talked a couple times. I know I'm just interviewing you now. I've just completely flipped the script on you, but hey, this is what we do. That's what happens to get two podcasters together, and this is just too fascinating for me not to ask. And clearly, if this conversation hasn't happened before, your audience needs to hear this.

I'm going to just take it upon myself. I know for myself when there's something going on in my life that I can't talk over in the pockets it used to be always work I would work this crazy with each other's all this stuff and I couldn't talk about it on the podcast because that's just not a business one you have to keep things quiet but it would just eat at me to have it right and now sometimes it's like comedy drama when somebody doesn't like it but you have to be the bigger

you just have to eat it but you get so used to having a podcast where you just talk about everything that's true to you and the more true it is the more impactful in your life the more you want to talk about it and I know for my when I hold those things back and I don't talk about it, it just eats at me, eats at me, eats at me. If there's something true to my life and big and impactful and I'm not fully embracing it, and like being who I am on the podcast, have you felt any of the impacts of having a major change like that and not talking about it on the podcast and not like having these

conversations more regularly? Is that more of a choice? Like do you, obviously it's a choice and you're making that choice, but what are maybe some of the pros and cons you see of like, what does it give? you to be able to have the time like on the on the positive side of it to just digest this stuff and not have to bring it forward but do you ever feel any of the negative of not being as true to yourself and to who you you're becoming when you when you come on here i walk in here today and every day and one of the things i used to do is i used to listen to ac dc oh man shoot to thrill

no no no those about to rock it's one of those songs i can't even remember anymore i used to get myself pumped up. I was, Braden Holpe, he always told me listen to, like, classical music to bring himself down, he won't become. And I'm always the opposite way, let's rant this thing up. Yeah. And the big change for me, walking into any, any conversation,

so I just pray before, you know, like, just make sure the audio works. Make sure the camera, you know, I don't, I probably didn't pray for the cameras today. That's funny. But I mean, I just, you know, I just, I want it to be a healthy conversation and let it go where it wants to. Yeah. And I have found, like, did I,

like, I just, you know, I chuckle. I'm like, how the heck? did we get here. Yeah. And yet I find, I just, let me just take it where you want. If the, if the,

if the, if the, if the, guest wants to talk about psilocybin or Jesus or hell, Lucifer, if that's where we're going to go.

Yeah. I'm like, I want to listen. Yeah. Because I want to see what they have to say. It's what I've done since the very beginning. Right.

So I don't walk in going. What am I going to talk about? No. It's what, what is the conversation going to be? And so if today is the day that somebody finally asked about, you know, what on earth happened in Ottawa because they know me a little better and they feel

comfortable asking, so be it. That was the time for it to come out. Interesting. That's a very powerful mindset. And I think I was coming at it differently from my point of view because with every I feel the exact same way about the conversations, but I always do the intros where I talk about my life, right? Like that's what's a little bit different in mypox of your power.

I always have that no matter what the conversation of the day is, there's a conversation just directly between me and my audience before. Sure. And sometimes after the conversation, right? And in that, that's when I'm not honest in that or I'm not, I guess it's not dishonest, but not. When you talk, sorry, when you talk about being dishonest, the things that always stick out to me is when I was working for Baker Hughes, I had to live two lives and I didn't like it. Like I really didn't like it. I'm like living this life on the podcast and I'm talking things, but I'm not living it truly to who I am in the world world.

And I think once you start doing that, that pit in your stomach, I get. I snuck across the border. I don't know. Can I say that aloud? And I'm going to, I feel like I'm going on the gulae. I do too. And I wanted to talk about it, but I didn't want to draw too much attention to my family, you know? And so I had a choice.

I'm like, I guess I'm just going to protect them. Even though I think people needed to hear that the world wasn't ending and you could get out of the country. Now, let's be honest, folks, it was right at the very end, right before they pulled it. So at that time, I'm like, I shouldn't say that. My wife's a tough cookie. She's the one who, you know, is really balancing for me. So there are things like that that I, as I move forward, go, I never want to be back in that position.

I never want to have to live two lives, talk on the podcast one way, and then not live it out in real life in the other. So this comes all the way back to the drugs and everything. It's like, I just, I don't know why. I just, I'm not remotely going down that road. And I don't want to sound like I'm being harsh or anything. I just go, this is where I'm at.

Yeah. And I have to speak to where I'm at. and maybe someday I will laugh and I'll go, I wish I could go back to John at 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just be like, hey, you need to know, certainly. But right now, I just go, I think I've done that for too long.

And I think that you lose part of yourself when you aren't true with yourself. Yeah. If I may, I don't know, is that you just rhyme that anyways. I'm just stuck in this place right now of like trying not to let that overtake my life to where I push everyone away because I can certainly, when you talk,

like, when you say, few things. I'm like, yeah, I, I have arguments with my wife about a bunch of different things, not, you know, some of this, sure, maybe a little bit, but just on different things where I'm so black and white. Except like, you know, transgender stuff. Are we going to offend people by talking about it? For sure. The answer is yes. Undoubtedly. So I go, okay, well, we can try and make them inclusive and try and get it so that they feel welcome, but do they want, I can't give. I just can't give it. I can't make them, like there's no. There's no. way to make them feel welcome or it doesn't start to impact my family.

And I say no. Yeah. And so there's a line drawn. And when it comes with me being, oh boy, I can't believe I'm about to say this a lot, when it comes with me being the spiritual leader of my family, like taking that seriously, I look at this and I go, there's my line. And right now here's where it is. It doesn't mean that it can't move, maybe someday it can.

But while I just keep learning and reading and trying to figure who I am out, I don't need to go down the 60 different paths. Listen, there are so many people I respect that have gone down different paths. And part of me, the adventure in me goes, you got to go, you got to go see. Yeah, yeah. And then the other voice goes, but why? Yeah, you've got a path. Yeah.

Follow your path. Yeah. And here I say. And I feel like I love that metaphor. And like I think so many times, if I can just expand on that, people see all these different paths, right? And they see the Joe Rogan path and all these paths and they go follow it. And they see where it ended up and all these people ended up on a mountain top. Right. But for some reason, that's where that path led them.

It doesn't mean it's going to lead you there, right? Like paths can lead two different people, two different places, right? And I think to know we're on the right path is it's going to be going up. It's going to get hard. It's going to get difficult, right? And that makes a lot of people go, oh, that path looks a little flat or a little easier. I'm going to go on that one. But that's the signal you're on the right path.

Yeah, it's difficult. It's got some incline to it. I'm going, and that's what's going to get you up to the top of the mountain. And if you pursue that, you can see all those other paths, right? It doesn't mean you have to go walk down. them, but you can see them from up there, right? If you're true following your path, it's going to lead you up to an elevation where you can see the others pass without having to walk them and you can learn the lessons from

them. But if you deviate from your path, try and jump on someone for a shortcut or from some of this or get tempted by whatever it is, whether that's drugs, whether that's this, whether that's porn, whatever it is, it's going to pull you off that path and you're going to stop climbing. You're going to still be trudging forward. You might not even go down into some depths. You might start, you know, going down to some valleys that are. hard to come out from but it's the most important part of that the whole reason I

want to bring that up there is this I feel like so many people get scared when things get difficult and it scares them off their path and what I hear you talk you didn't say it in these words but it seems like you found something that works for you and it feels right and there's the world is giving you signals God is giving you signals that you're on the right path that might get difficult that might be tiresome that might be scary but you're on it right and as long as you keep doing that and you don't ever I don't know you might stumble you might fall off but I guarantee you're going to stumble you're going to stumble you

might fall off that path for a bit you might think you're still on it and then you get it further down and you realize hey I don't know where I am anymore and I don't think this is really where I want to go and you might have to backtrack a little bit and try again but when you find someone that makes a conscious decision whatever it is that clears that mind like you said that tells you no I'm on the right path that is so powerful that is so important because you get so many people that aren't even walking they're just sitting they've given up this is where I am this is who I'm going to be I'm just sitting here. I don't want to grow.

I don't want to change path. I don't even want a path. I just want to sit here. And just to find somebody that you can sit across. And it's just so impressive to me to find and surround myself with people that are on a path and are trying something. You know what I mean? Like that's the biggest difference than that.

Well, it's what I admire about you. Yeah. I feel like that's something right from day one when we first met was somebody admired in each other, right? It's something that I have grown in an appreciation for it out of you. Honestly, Nick. Like one of the things that I've seen you grow leaps and bounds in is, your conversation ability is like, I don't know, is it second than none?

Like, is there better conversationalists? Certainly. Maybe a handful. Maybe. For now. But like, overall, like, it's impressive. And you've gone, you know, like, you've dug into comedy. And honestly, you know, I say this as I'm about to go on a Tuesday mashup live tour.

But like, it's just something like I never want to try and make people laugh for a living. I just look at it and I go, it just isn't in me. I'm not a funny guy. I don't want to be the funny guy. I want to do this. Like I really, really love this. And so,

no, I appreciate you coming in and doing this. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being willing to let me ask those questions. I know a lot of those are probably, if you haven't already talked about them and you have a podcast, there's got to be some sort of bravery involved in that. And it was so beyond fascinating.

I mean, it was so fascinating. I hijacked the whole podcast. And usually every podcast I do is me trying to talk about myself and make me hear my voice the most. But like, more of that and I think there's more to it and I think there's still going to be some amazing conversations to come I think there's still so much more that you're going to find the words for I think you've I think there's way more that you felt that you can't explain this is just me

guessing at this point but I think this is going to be a very cool conversation that's going to happen over multiple multiple years and I'm very excited to see what you learn and what you come out of it and how you change the person because you've already seen so many benefits and so many like really change can be good and bad but the changes i've seen out of you these last couple years have been all positive and really i was already proud to call you a friend and and you know proud to know you and stuff but you just become more and more so if i can return that compliment to you to you're always that uh you're always that canary in the coin that's you know two or three steps ahead of me on this podcast game that i can watch where i can learn from i come in here i always

get so excited coming down to lloyd and senior studio and taking in little things i can do and learning from you of how you compose your conversations i learned from that and uh Yeah, I'm glad there's someone else out here fighting the good fight and, you know, just being brave. I love brave people and I think you're one of those brave people and it's glad to, as much as it can feel lonely sometimes, be out on that path, fighting it forward as soon as you get a little bit of time like this to see someone else doing the same thing, it just refills the cup and I'm thankful to be out here. I drive out here anytime. And if you ever need a host one of these live shows, you know I'm in it.

You know I'm in it. What are you doing while we do this live shows? I am going to be down in Austin. So you can't. I can't do these specific ones. Had you a few weeks ago? As soon as he is there, I'm like, what are you doing in a couple weeks? I'm in 10.

Oh, crap. All right. So he isn't around. Otherwise, we would have had you a part of, you know. And we would have some fun, maybe. Well, we're going to have some fun. We're going to have some fun. We're going to have someone.

You guys are going to knock her out of the park that it'll just be, uh, the next round will be even bigger and badder and better and I'll be involved. And then it's guaranteed better and better. Well, I appreciate you coming in and doing this. Thank you so much. And, well, I always look forward to our conversations. You know, they don't, with everything, it's, I go back to what I was telling you before. A guy's got to lean on his guest list where you have some guests that, like, really brings some meat to the conversation because those are the fun conversations.

It's one, you know, like you have your favorite podcast or I'm sure we share a few that we both listen to. Where somebody goes on there, and I just always think of Jordan Peterson and Rogan, you're like, I got to listen. Like that is, drop everything. Yeah. Right? And there's more of that out there. And a guy's got to, you know, as was Harley and one of my, my next old brother would say, you know, you just got to lean into that because you have that or, you know, we probably all have that.

I mean, the amount of episodes you've done, how many you ought to now? Oh, well over 200 with like the Oilers and Censor progress. Probably getting closer to three. They didn't even talk oilers yet. I know. We didn't even talk any Oilers. This means I got to come back. It's got to come back.

All right. Well, thank you, sir, for hopping on. Anytime, brother. Anytime.