Shaun Newman Podcast - #516 - Graham Wardle

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Canadian actor, filmmaker, author, podcaster and photographer who spent 14 years on CBC's Heartland. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcastPatreon: www.patreon.com/ShaunNewmanPodcast

This is Leighton Gray. My name's David John Parker. This is Andrew Lotton. This is James Lindsay. This is Jonathan Peugeot. This is Tannan Today. This is Sean Buckley. Hey, this is Brett Kessel, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast.

Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Wednesday. How's everybody doing today? We got a good one on tap. Before we get there, let's get to today's episode sponsors. Blaine and Joy, Stefan Guardian, Plumbing and Heating, home of the Guardian Power Station, bringing free electricity to everyone as well as reliable off-grid solutions, Alberta.

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Irma. I think it's just South Irma. North Irma? One of the two. I'll post the the poster. that way you can see the directions and everything to Albert Hall. And that's where that one's going to be on Friday, October 27th in Irma.

So three days coming up here for the Tuesday Mashup Live tour. We hope to see you there. We're going to have some Tuesday mashup shirts in our bag as well. We've been getting asked about those for quite some time. We've finally got them made up and look forward to showing them off to you guys. The deer and steer butchery is a fast-growing custom cutting and wrapping butchery located near Lake Minster. focus on high quality locally sourced meats with unparalleled customer service who are proud to be from this community.

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Top, Chad's over the glove. I made the, you know, like, I don't know what teenage boys are like, you know, they're kind of like awkward. And I'm like, well, tell me about it. And he's like, well, yeah, I scored. I'm like, that isn't telling me about it. I want to know how it went in. He's like, well, I just took a wrist shot. I'm like, no, no, give me details, you know.

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It was fantastic. The service was fantastic as well and I'm in sober October mode so I didn't try out any of the beers on tap but I did notice on tap they got the best local selection you're going to find here which means that you're getting some great beverages on tap and of course they just had another lady in to do a little music

and they got a cool little spot there. I was telling Nick about it like in town we just don't have any I shouldn't say we don't have any live music. Certainly there is some live music, but very few venues where you can sit down, have a meal, great service, great food, you know, beverage or two, and then like just the atmosphere. And Jim and team over there at Three Trees have really done that.

So if you're looking for a night out, pay attention to their social media for their upcoming days when they're going to have it, all right? Now, let's get on the tail of the tape, brought to you by Hancock Petrolling. For the past 80 years, they've been an industry leader in bulk fuels, lubricants, methanol, and chemicals delivering to your farm, commercial or oil field locations.

For more information, visit them at Hancockpatroleum.com. com.com. He's a Canadian actor, filmmaker, and photographer. You probably know him as Ty Borden from the long-running series on CBC Heartland. He spent 14 years there.

I'm talking about Cram Wardle. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Shown Newman podcast today. I'm joined by Graham Wardle. So, sir, thanks for making the trip to Lloyd Minster. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me.

I've never been in Lloyd Minster before. It sounds like, I was thinking about this last night, Jason Statham sounds like some town that he would come from. Lloyd Minster. I don't know if anyone's ever put it that way, but I was just having fun with the name of it when I was driving home last night. I was like, it sounds like a Jason Statham like where he grew up, like the town where he grew up kind of thing.

He would say something like, welcome to Lloyd Minster. That's what, that's what I was having fun with that last night. You know what? What's the thing you can do to get celebrities to say like a few things? You know what I'm talking about? Like the accent and stuff? You can pay them and they send you like happy birthday.

Camios. Camios. Camios. Yes. Yes. I should get them to do a cameo of a bunch of guys doing welcome to the loit and stuff. That's a good idea. Maybe what I used to do at the start of, well, I still do this. I shouldn't, like at the end of this, I'm going to get you to say, hey, this is your name and welcome to Sean Newman podcast.

And listeners may have noticed, like, we've kind of cut that out from the beginning because I was watching it. I was listening to it. And it was like, and next, you know, I would have. what I say. I say, now let's get on the show or no, better buckle up. Man, why can't I spit it out right now?

This is terrible. But anyways, I say, and I'm talking about Graham Wardell. So buckle up, here we go. And then you come on and say, hey,

this is Graham Wardell. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. And then the song comes in. Then I go, hey, welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. I'm saying it's like three times in a row. I'm like, hmm, I don't like that. I kind of liked it.

I kind of liked it. I kind of liked it. Did you? I heard it recently. I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. you have all these people say welcome to Sean Newman. No, no, I'm going to continue to do that.

Start every month. Every month I change it out. So November 1st, you will be one of the folks that introduced the Sean Numa podcast for a month. And then the next month I change it. Oh, I get it. If you go a month without tuning in the show, you can be like, you had Brett Kissela? Right.

When the heck did I miss that? When did that happen? I got to rewind. Yeah. And so I try to do the best I can on that. But I wonder if I shouldn't be having a little, to me, I'm like, I wonder if I shouldn't have a little more fun. You're putting the thought in my brain of like...

Oh, the Jason Statham? Oh, yeah. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Or, well, I come from Lloyd Mince. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, cool, man. Well, I'm happy to be here.

I'm excited. We had a great conversation last night. So I'm happy to dive back in, continue the conversation. Well, I want to start, you know, like, I was saying you last night. I didn't want to spoil. I was like, I don't want to ask all my questions the night before because then it's like, you know, now I almost got to put on a, a short. of trying to ask the same questions and I've already heard it you know and so I'm like I like

being caught off guard or or seen where the conversation goes I guess yeah and so you know like breck kissle started country music singing I remember reading it on Wikipedia I'm like 12 years old that's BS well I was listening to you drew again and I was like six years old like how does that even how do you even get into a commercial or TV or this at six years old like was this something that your parents, you know, like I think of sports and I go, well, it's pretty easy. Kids get in the sports. Me and my wife grew up playing sports. So the first time we're thinking was, let's get them into sports. Was this like a fate? Or was this like your parents were actively involved in film and television? No, no, not at all. It was a friend of my moms who was like

doing like those, you know the flyers you get for like the local stores or whatever like London drugs. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And you have the people modeling the clothes. Yeah, the coupons. Like the coupons, but also like the sort of like, here are the deals of the week kind of stuff. Sure. Yeah. The junk mail. And so my mom's friend had done some like with her kids, some modeling or something for those sort of print ads or something. So I think it was my mom's friend invited my mom and us kids out to do some stuff like that, make some extra cash.

So it's like, oh, cool. Okay, we'll do that. And so that was kind of like the beginning of like being in front of a camera and taking photos and putting on the clothes and smiling and, you know, just kind of. playing a character kind of thing. And then it was like being in the right place at the right time for an audition. And I think it was something about my mom because I was very young. My mom needing to sit down. And then there was like this, you know, we were next door or something.

And then over here there was an audition. But my mom didn't know it was an audition. And there was a couch out front in the hallway. So she sat down the couch to like feed my younger brother. And then there was something about, oh, you here for an audition? And then my mom's like, no, we're just going to check it, hanging out here. And the lady's like, well, would your son like to try out? Like, we got an audition here for a toy commercial.

And so my mom was like, yeah, sure. So I went in and I played with this toy. And so it was a dinosaur that, I can't remember the name of it now, but it was like a T-Rex. And it was all the bones of the dinosaur. And you had to put the bones on the back. And if you put the bone, you know, part of the rib cage in the wrong spot, the dinosaur was shake. And all the bones would fly off. It sounds like a cool toy.

It was a cool toy. Now, when I was younger, we didn't have a lot of electric toys. So we had wooden blocks and trains, but we didn't have toys that had batteries. It's like that was next level. And so I didn't believe that the toy would know that I would, you know, where the pieces. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. But I was like, well, this is acting. Maybe I'm supposed to, you know, like pretend.

And, you know, so I didn't believe it. And they knew that I didn't really understand. So they played into that. And they never turned the toy on. And then I, you know, got a call back. I did the audition again. And they were just kind of testing me. And then they're like, okay, we're going to set this little kid up.

So they book me on the commercial. I get in the room. They set up all the lights. we do some practice rounds. The other two kids are beside me. They know what's up. And they're told, like, we're going to turn it on. So, like, if he freaks out and falls off the little wooden box,

it's called an apple box that I was sitting on, just like, catch him. So they turn the toy on. They give me the wrong piece. I put it on. The dinosaur thing shakes, and all the bones go flying. And I push away from the table because I'm legitimately freaking out. And the kids grab me, and then they push me back towards the table as I'm like, whoa, and I come back.

And they loved it. They laughed. They laughed. They laughed. They laughed. They laughed. again and they're laughing and so I'm just like freaking out legitimately you know whoa this is crazy but I'm scared and so that was how I started acting with with a commercial not knowing what I was I was getting

myself into and I was a great group of people I did many commercials as a kid were for toys and Nerf guns and alphabet cereal and clothing brands and all these different things and it was a process of me learning the magic of of storytelling through commercials and through these little sort of vignettes of you know, the kids playing with the micro machines or the Nerf guns or whatever. And there was always like a little mini story within commercials, which I loved back in the day. It was really fun. So yeah, that's how I got into it. And then, you know, did little X-Files.

I think it was six or seven when I did X-Files. There was a little small part on X-Files. Little TV shows along the way. And then I went to-X-Files is not a little TV show. Oh, sorry, a little part. Sorry, Little Part. Yeah, X-Files is a big show. But other shows like the Adams family, the new Adams family.

and I think it was another one called The Sentinel. So just fun little parts as I was sort of, you know, as a kid growing up, learning how to act, learning how to be on camera and learning the sort of the film world. Forgive me. Is this like you're going to school the entire time? And then just on like weekends you're kind of sneak, no different than like a kid with hockey or something? Or is it a little different? Yeah, because I would miss school.

So I was homeschooled, bless my parents for homeschooling me, taught me some wonderful things. From the beginning you were homeschool? I was homeschooled until about grade six. I think it was. Yeah, great six. And so in that time, you know, I would just do my school work and then have an audition or whatever. But when I went to school and an audition came up, it was, you know, you still got to do your homework, but then you got to memorize the lines. And then you got to miss school and then you got to make up for the missed school. So it was like an extra, it was a lot of extra work, which was fine because I, that's okay, you know, but it was,

that was the process of like an audition would come in. Oh, you get about like maybe, if you're lucky you get two days. Normally it's like a day. So you get the audition in the morning. Then you're like, okay, I've got to spend tonight memorizing lines. Memorize your lines. And the next day, you show up and you do it. You miss a bunch of school. You come back and then you're trying to catch up and do all your homework. And then you find down the road whether you got the part. And I don't know if you know much about the acting world and auditioning. You don't get a lot of your parts. It's like 99% of them. You don't book, right? You're doing so many auditions and you're not getting anything. But you just keep going. You just

keep doing it. And that's... I'm, I know, it's like, what do I know? I enjoy movies, you know? Like, I'm a fan of it. Most times, there's a lot of stuff these days that really bugs me a lot, and I try not to see it, but it's hard not to see because it's pretty clear what some movies are trying to tell you, or even commercials for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's an interesting thing, you know, like, I think when people, hear bits and pieces of your story.

I assume they just go, oh, man, he just, you know, fell into it and with success after success. You know, because, you know, like, even, I've listened to Matthew, I've read Matthew McConaughey's book. Oh, yeah. And, like, parts for you're like, man, it just fell in his lap, right? Oh, really? I thought so. Okay. But at the same time, when you read his book, then you go, oh, no, there was, he took some absolute giant leaps of faith, you know, and really pushed himself.

And when you talk about like, you know, you get one out of a hundred interview, like, what fortitude either your parents had, you had, you both had to like keep just like, oh, didn't get that one. Let's try again. Well, didn't get that one. Let's try again. Well, I was lucky because my first one I got. And it was an accident, right? So it was kind of like, oh. And then.

But was it an accident? Yeah. Who knows? I mean, some people could say it was an accident. I think it was, you know, God or a higher power being like, here's a, here's a path that you're going to go down and you're going to walk. And so. Well, think about it. Like, literally, your mom's in the right place at the right time.

Yeah. Isn't that the boat, like, that's what movies are made out of. Yeah, you know, like, oh, yeah, we're just sitting up front. Are you here for the interview? Yeah. But it could have also, because my older brother did TV commercials as well. And so did my older sister, I think. She did some as well.

So there was a little bit. So there was a little bit. Yeah, but they didn't continue, right? So I think my sister did a short film and my older brother did some commercials, but they didn't continue booking stuff. They didn't continue with it. And maybe it wasn't their thing. I'm not sure.

But how much older were your siblings than you? My older sister's two years older. And then my older brother's four years older. Gotcha. So a little bit older than me. Yeah. So there was a little bit of an appetite for, or at least a little bit of like, oh, there is this world of commercials.

Oh, yeah. Like my mom's, my mom, that's definitely like my mom's side. She's very like, you know, wants to the performer. She's the performer. She's, you know, likes to all the artist. stuff. So I think she was very much like encouraging us to like, oh yeah, like if you love this, go for it, you know. I was always into sports. I was big into soccer as a kid in basketball. Arts were not really my thing, but I loved playing with toys. So I was like, this is cool.

Like I get to go in and play with toys and, you know, pretend to be driving this fast car and then the car turns into a micromachine thing and then I'm, you know, doing a green screen thing, grabbing marshmallows for the alphabet cereal commercial. Like I'm like, I have no idea what this is, but this is fun. Like, that was my thing. It was never like artsy, you know? Like that, that wasn't my thing. It was just more like, here's a way to have fun.

I was like, let's do it. Well, you look at, you look at YouTube now, and some of the things parents have been able to do with their kids from their own backyard of just playing with, playing with toys, you know? And you're just like, that's the new way of doing it now because those kids make money, don't they? Yeah, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Guaranteed those YouTube channels with millions upon millions of views of monster trucks going through the mud or track, It's just like on and on and on. I'm like, it's very clever. Like, I mean, it's so simplistic. Yeah.

And it's cleverness. But it's so clever because a young kid, even a grown adult, I can simply say my son. I'm, I steer clear of YouTube for the most part. I'm not a giant fan of it. Yeah. But in saying that, when I've watched my son watch like a tractor video where they have the remote control tractors and they go in like, it sucks me right in. Like I'm like, you know, once a kid, always a kid, right? You're sitting there.

Yeah, yeah. Man, this is something. I wonder what that. Oh, they're going through the mud. They're going through, and you can see, like, I'm like, we're both kids, you know? Like, Dad, are you parenting right now? No, I'm having fun. I'm having fun.

Well, I think that's the beauty of being alive is being connected to your innocence and your playfulness and your, like, childlike nature. If you lose that, it's like you kind of, you lose life. That's what I feel. Like, that, that to me is when I, when I come on a set or I'm doing any sort of creative project, I'm like, where's the fun? Like, we got to get to the fun of it and find that because that's like the spirit. And it's like from there you create.

And that's like a solid foundation of like nutrition that you can then build a character on, a commercial on a project, some sort of party or any sort of thing you're organizing. It's like find, that's what I always try to do. I was trying to find the fun of it, the element of like innocence of exploration or adventure. And it's like, okay, cool. Let's start there and then build out. That's the way I see it. Are you still actively like acting?

Like are you like chasing? I don't know, Hollywood or... Yeah, no. Because I know you've written a book, right? Yeah, yeah. I got a copy for you right here. Oh, yeah, you do. Hey, you can go up right beside Drew Weatherhead.

Yeah, okay, sweet. There you go, sir. That's my new book of poetry called Time is Come. Time has come. That's cool. We're going to get you to sign it before. Oh, I did, man. I'm prepared.

He already beat me to it, folks. The first book you ever written? This is my second one of poetry. I didn't plan on writing either of them. They just kind of... I was challenged to write the first one, and then the second one, people were saying, when are you going to write your second one? When do you mean you were challenged? I had a coach, Tony Robbins coach I was working with at the time.

Yeah. And I had just kind of said to him, I can't remember how it came out. We were in conversation about something. And he says, oh, you write poetry. And it says, well, it's not really poetry. It's just, you know, a journal thing that I've been writing in. And he says, well, why don't you share some of that in a book? And I was like, it's like super vulnerable.

And I don't want to do that. It's not meant for anybody else. It's like, no. man and he's and and and I said I'm not really into make like making money off it like I'm not you know like why and he said well you could donate the money to charity and so I was like so I have a cause that's close to my heart which is protecting kids that have been you know trafficked or or sexually abused and so he said you could donate money to charity and help those those those kids that cause that's close to your heart and so then I was like well I have no reason to say no because all I have to do is

put it into a book and then I can raise that money and donate it. So that's what I did. And I didn't think much of it other than just like I'll put it in a book and I put some my photography in there as well. Put it out. People liked it. They bought it. And so then people would ask me, hey, Graham, can you can you read this poem from your book and talk about it? On Cameo. They would book me on Cameo and they say, hey, can you read this poem and talk about it? And I was like, sure, okay, you know, fine. So I'd read the poem and I talk about where it came from and what I was feeling at the moment. And then also I also like, I also like to include other people in the exploration.

So it's not just about me. It's like, well, how do you experience this? Or how does this show up in your life? So I kind of developed this sort of format of sharing a poem, talking about it, and then including a question at the end. And that's eventually how this book came to pass, which people kept asking me, when's your next book coming? I don't plan on writing.

I didn't plan on writing the first one. And so then I started a substack page. which is, for those who you don't know, it's like a blog writing website. And I had people subscribe, and I would deliver a poem every week, and I would write the poem, and then I would talk about the poem, and then I would include readers in a reflection question. And I called it Tuesday Reflections. Every Tuesday I'd release a poem.

And basically to engage the community in conversations around deep topics, kind of like what we were talking about last night, just life stuff. Yeah, I know. Yeah. My wife got home, she's like, oh, how was that? I'm like, good. We talked about God for three hours. She's like, oh.

And I'm like, you know, one of those conversations where you're like, I don't know, because I love, I love philosophy. I love talking about large life things. My wife always, it doesn't roll her eyes at me. She's just like, oh, yeah. It was a good conversation. And those are my favorite types of conversations. And that's kind of what I tried to work into this book was, you know, I write, I have a poem, I share a poem, and then I share a question. Some sort of reflection point for the reader to include them.

and where have they experienced God? Or how do they experience guidance in their life? Or what does this like for them so that they can not only enjoy the poem and consume it, but also to take some time to reflect and kind of go into their own life and move into that place that I feel I went to to uncover this poem

or uncover this beautiful thing that I've stumbled upon because I think it's a journey of life and I want to include people. I don't want to do it alone and I don't want it to be a one-way thing. I'm like, I want the conversation. I want to learn from you. And so on the substack, on the Tuesday reflections,

people would write comments and they would share all these beautiful stories of what they learned or what they experienced love to be like or God to be like or their, you know, whatever. And it was a wonderful experience. So then the way I've written this book is it's not just a bunch of poems. It's like I said, a poem, a question, and then my sort of like, you know, background of where it came from and some painting from Jesse there that he did all the paintings through the book.

So it's a journey and it's, a journey of the last year of my life from early 2020 to when the book came out so a couple months ago and yeah it's it's not something i ever thought i would do because i almost failed english class like i was not an artsy guy played sports i was at math and physics and and my english teacher was making fun of me he's like if you don't know shakespeare you're never going to be an actor like you'll you'll fail in life and and i was like i'll show you um I just didn't, I didn't like reading and I didn't like English and I didn't like all this sort of like wishy-washy stuff. It was just not my thing.

I liked being having understandable facts and the math and the physics of how things worked and the pool balls and they would, you know, the momentum. I really loved all. And I still do. But now I have an appreciation for art that I didn't have before and poetry for that matter of the expression of the heart and what it means to be human. And it's like something that's intangible and that we all do our best to just try to point towards it. and try to express it and share that with others, not to look at me, look at me, but to say like, this is what I experienced life to be like.

This is what it feels like for me to feel love. What does it feel like for you? So that hopefully we can learn from each other and sort of expand upon the things that are hard to talk about and just hard to get at with words. It feels like, you know, when you, like, pull in the audience to be a part of your creation, it kind of sounds like what George,

Gordon Peterson did with his 12 rules to life and then obviously he has 12 more. But I remember him talking about the way that came to be is he started writing about it and started seeing, well, I mean, he started to analyze how people were acting with it and seeing which ones rose to the top. And it was this process and the process created his book. Now, he had already written a book before that, maps of meaning. And if you've ever tried going through that gauntlet. It's a thick one. Oh, it's, yeah. And his, all his books are thick. But it was, it was dense. It was like this subject is I'm trying to grasp with Jordan Peterson

and I read it and listened to Jordan Peterson so I get what he's trying to say but it was very almost gray. You know like it was okay maybe that makes sense but I'm like whereas by the time he got to 12 rules to life it was so concise even though it was dense that you're like this makes sense but when you listen to him talk about being on what was it folks was it Cora? No that doesn't make sense what was the

that somebody's yelling at the radio right now going and I know exactly what this is. But he put him out, and then people almost voted them up and down, if I recall, right? And he was like, oh, that's interesting. And then expanded on them. And what you're talking about with a poem is what they wanted was you to expand on it. Because they're like interested. It's no different than us talking a few scriptures from the Bible last night and going like,

well, what do you think that makes? Well, what do you think that means? Well, I mean, geez, that is Bible study in a nutshell. You know, I just didn't, I guess I never really thought about it before. And what you're talking about is you're enlisting people to help. And once they feel a part of it, they want to not only see it succeed, but they feel like they're helping construct something that is kind of like you can almost grasp it, but you can't.

Yeah. And that to me is way more fun. I would much rather co-create with people and learn from people. And that doesn't mean I lean on that and be like, well, what do you guys think? And I'll just write whatever you say. Or I have to follow what I feel called to do. And that's uncomfortable. and that's difficult.

But I also wanted to be a collaborative experience. We did a challenge on the substack page. We called it the August writing challenge. And I just got to this point where I was praying or meditating before I was going to write a poem. And I just got this download or this sign or this feeling of like, you need to ask them to write a poem this week. You're going to challenge them and bring them through a few series of prompts or of ideas

to help them write a poem. Because I got the feeling for them. from the comments that other people out there had thoughts to share. Had thoughts to share and they wanted to write and they had either never written before or they had written a long time ago but they wanted to try again. And so I said, all we're going to do a challenge. It's the August writing challenge. We're all going to write a poem and this is the phases that I go through to write a poem.

This is what I'm going to try and support you through this process and encourage people that we're either feeling insecure or not, you know, not quite sure about it. Anyways, we got thousands of comments and people responding to each other and reading their poems and supporting each other. I was like, this is crazy. Like, what, what just happened here? This is amazing. And so, anyways, we're going to put all those writings into a book for the members of my, my network, Time Has Come.com. And they're going to get to sort of contribute to that sort of members writing. And it was a beautiful experience to watch people come together and support each other, but also to express themselves in ways they had never done before. And I'm like, okay, like we were

talking about last night, I'm going to listen to God. Like, I'm going to listen to this download or whatever it is that's coming through me because it has blessings and opportunities and things that I could never have imagined. I didn't even know I wanted. I didn't even know it would be cool to explore. It could have fallen flat, the challenge and no one could have responded to be like, hey, Graham, we're paying you to write poems for us. We don't want to write. And I thought, well, maybe people get mad at me because I didn't write a poem this week. And I'm doing a challenge instead. opposite. People loved it. And so that's where I'm, one of my philosophies of life is, and I, like I mentioned to you last night, is life will give you or God will give you more than you could have ever dreamed of.

But you got to do the work with what's in front of you. And I have goals and I have desires that I want to move towards, but God's plan or, you know, the universe or however you see that comes first. And there's always a, I always leave ample space for the divine veto is another way to put it. is like if God steps in and it goes, nope, you're going this way. It's like, okay, okay. I don't, I don't, I don't argue with that anymore because I've, I've seen time and time again that when you're able to open up and listen to that and follow that guidance, it will take you 10 times farther with half the amount of work, but it's really scary to follow that. And on the converse side, if you, if you ignore that, it's 10 times more work with like, you know, a 10th of the progress of the, the,

the traction. So I try my best to just stay open to that guidance and to listen to that and to move into that. And it's exciting like we were talking about last night. It's an adventure. You don't know what's around the bend. But that's like the best part of life. Like it's this beautiful adventure that's unfolding that you have no idea where it's going to go. And it's constantly requiring you to be present with what's coming up, to digest it, to love it free, to let it go. to step in with more courage, to speak up when it's hard, all these different things that come up. But life will then take a turn.

Like, we're sitting here right now. I didn't, you know, because you know David Parker, you know Drew Weatherhead. I met Drew because I saw him on a podcast with, I think it was Eddie Bravo. Eddie Bravo? Yeah. And he just popped up on my feed and he was telling the story.

Eddie Bravo? Was it Sam Tripoli? Which one is it, Drew? Now I'm forgetting. I thought it was Eddie Bravo. I think you're right. I think you're right. Or maybe, yeah. I think you're right. Because that's how I got hooked up with, you know,

Canadian guys speaking out on a giant podcast. Yeah. And that's how you met Drew too? Yeah, well, not. I don't know those guys, but I know people. So the thing I do, because I enlist my audience all the time. I'm listening to them the entire month of October, all of November, for the rest of the time I'm going to do this.

But right now, the thing I'm staring at is CRTC, November 28th. I bring this up every time because I'm like, okay, if you're a brilliant person and have brilliant things to say, let's just shoot me a text. But I have my phone number on every episode, which is at times a little insane. At other times, it's the best. Your actual phone number?

Correct. You put your actual phone number. Correct. Oh, wow. I stand behind everything I say on here. It doesn't mean I get it right. It doesn't mean that I'm bang on. But I want to have, I'm not a big social media guy.

So it doesn't mean I won't go put things on social media. We certainly are. Yeah. But I can't tell if you're a bot. Uh-huh. Like, to me, I just can't decipher it. Sure, we can go, oh, he's only got 10 followers. He's a bot.

Right. But there's people with 10 followers. There's bots with 10,000 followers too, though. That's right. So I just go like, I give two, this make-believe world of social media, I'm going to interact with it because I need people to see. And I find great things out of there. I find people all over the place out of it.

But I'm also very, like, conscious of like, I'm not going to spend all my waking time on this thing. Because this thing is designed to suck me in. I've watched too many, you know, like the social, no, social. What was it? Dilemma. Dilemma, thank you. was as soon as I watch it, I'm like, oh, okay, well, then I'm turning off all notifications and etc.

But I want to be connected to my audience and how can they get a hold of me? I'm like, well, the easiest way is text. And so in the middle of COVID, put my actual phone number on there. Back then I had two phones because I was working full time. So I had two phones. Now I just have the one phone. And I put it on, do not disturb from 5 p.m. until 8 a.m. every day. Okay, okay. Rain or shine. So if I open it up, I can see things, right? Like after our conversation last night, I opened it up. I'd missed like 38 texts. I'm like, oh, man. That's why I, you know, you text me after you left. And I got it to this morning.

I'm like, oh, crap. I don't know. Like, but I, wow. What are you going to do when you're getting thousands of texts a night? Like, how are you going to manage that? I don't know. I don't know. To me, to me, like, you interact with your audience in a way.

Everybody has their way. Well, I have a text message number, but it doesn't go, it's through an app. Like, it's not my actual phone number. Like, they can't call it. But people can call you. Oh, yeah. And they do. Oh, wow, dude.

I don't know. I've been yelled at, I've been praised, I've been everything, and some of the best guest suggestions have come through that line. Wow. Some, I don't know. That's cool. No, I like that. I think that's great. I think being interactive with the audience is fantastic because it's like we were talking earlier.

It's like that collaborative sort of thing. Yeah. Well, the podcast has become what it's become because of that line just as much as anything. Certainly I've followed my pull towards it. Yeah. You know, like when eight people text me, the same bloody guest in the same day, I'm like, I don't even need to go, I'm like, I should probably just reach out to this person. It's hitting on way too many. It's feeling your audience out.

And they can, and they do. They can text me whenever they want. And, you know. That's cool. Are you going to drop the number right now? Sure. What's the number? 587-217-850-0.

There you go. They can, they can, they just look in the show notes. They can see it. Oh, it's there in the show notes, too. It's right in the show notes. They just scroll down on any podcast. I was going to Graham. Oh, and there's his number.

He wasn't kidding. No, I'm like, no, I'm not. Good for you, man. I love that. I mean, it's as simple as not answering it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I apologize to people when I get back to him like a week later. Or, you know, somebody come in, I'm like, oh, my God.

And then I'll forget and then they'll text again. I'm like, oh, God, I haven't even text you, right? Like, it's a full, don't get me wrong. It's a lot. But I do talk about it enough where I hope anyone who's, well, they're not easily offended, listening to this show, you know, so. I think that's cool, man. I think being open to,

respectful conversation and including people and hearing their thoughts. And like you said, to make sure it's not a bot, you know, because there's so many of them out there right now. And they call you too, right? Like, I mean, they find ways around everything. I just, to me, what's there to be afraid of? You know, I was told to be afraid of having my actual name, you know? Like lots of people use Twitter.

Stage names or whatever. Yeah, whatever. I'm like, I don't know. I don't, I'm not, I look at you. I don't see you doing anything that's insane. So I'm like inciting violence or anything. like that like I just you just the human being trying to make sense of this crazy world we're in yeah and if you can't put your name at the front of it then I don't know what you're doing and I'm I'm

you know what I'm gonna probably catch some texts on that because people are like well I work here and work there and I'm like I know there's lots of people that are in tough positions but if we all stood up all the same time on a united day and we just went and and figured it out like honestly no corporation could fire us all you know like it's just but that's a in a fairness to that on the flip side I was the guy in the middle of COVID working for Baker had the email come through said you need to be vacs by this day and I remember that weekend you know looking back on it how stressed I was and I still had this to to run to at the time it wasn't full time but at the time I was like I

do have at least a bit of an exit strategy yeah and I that fear you know of like being whatever occupation for all your life and having that possibly taken away from you is paralyzing like that's a terrible position to be in. And somewhat of an identity crisis too, if that's been your life. 100%. Well, take me right now with the CRTC. You know, $10 million and you've got to register. Well, everybody can, folks, I hate to break it to you. I'm not making $10 million, right? One day will be so. But until then, I'm not. So I don't have to register with anything. But they are coming after what I do. And it will start with the Spotify's and on and on and on.

it will be attacking, you know, in Canada, probably Rebel News and things like that that are making that high of a, you know, rebel, I assume they are. That's what it's attacking. And that's a paralyzing thing for me all over again. That's why I bring it up so much because I'm like, I work my bag off to get here. And I continue to work my bag off because I see and know the importance of this. And I hear about it all the time, how important all these voices are, including yours. And if all of a sudden, you know, the worst way is they all disappear,

what a dark world that'll be. That ain't going to happen. There will always be a way to find a way. It's just be more difficult. That's what sucks about it. Because right now, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, sure, YouTube removed my entire channel. But you can pop a new one up and you can self-censor

and monitor your speech and still talk about things and make fun of some things and still have some fun there. Rumble, substack, you know, all these different things. are going to be labeled under broadcasting. And you go, so what are we going to do? Like, how are they going to monitor that? Such a, like, I just, you know, like, people who are inciting violence

are doing things that I think we can all agree on that are horrendous. Yeah. Okay, fair enough. Remove them. Take them off. Yeah, because that's already breaking a law, isn't it? But where does it stop? And what have I done here, you know, and where are we going to stop?

And what are we going to allow them to do? I think enough people I think people are waking up to this and I think more and more the momentum is going this way which is a positive thing that people are recognizing that hey this doesn't make any sense

why do they want to regulate podcasts but like you said that you're not going to stop and there will always be what I believe is that there will always be an option there will always be a way because life always finds a way

there will always be a new avenue you know you've ever seen those like the sidewalks and the plan like just bursting through the concrete. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or on the side of a mountain? Yeah, how is it? Yes.

How did it do that? Yes. And that's what I'm saying is like the spirit of that, the spirit of that life that could do that, that's the will of what I feel coming from you, that if they shut down your podcast, you will find a way. Well, I mean, they're messing with entrepreneurs, right? Like, I mean, some are better at it than others,

but regardless, they're pissing off entrepreneurs. And what do entrepreneurs do the best? They figure away. This is what they do. They look at the box and they go, okay, well, how do we, I was just on a call yesterday about looking at the box. It's like, okay, so how are we going to get around this? I just had a text from Layton Gray.

Folks of the show will know the lawyer from Cold Lake. And he, like, now you got lawyers talking about it, right? And he does a podcast. So obviously he's looking at this. And he's looking at it from a law perspective and how it goes, and I'm going to have an argument with him. I can feel it coming in a best way. Like a discussion.

Sorry, not an argument, a discussion. Because sometimes people, even including myself, will look at something. You go, oh, it's not that bad. you're worried about nothing. And it takes another person and go, no, let's talk about this for a bit. And let's see how bad this gets. Oh, you're right.

Yeah, I guess I was looking at something. And I can tell they're working, he's got something on the brew, and there's a whole bunch of people working in the brew, and we just need to get them together, collaborating, and we find a way. And the thing is, is we'll all want to be up on the side of the mountain beside that weird tree that somehow popped out,

would be like, that's where we need to be. Yeah. It might even help us. It might even central, not centralize it, but it might give us, like, that's where you go. because they've just removed everything. There's only a couple options

and finding their ways through the cracks. And I think that I was saying this, actually to Brett Kissel when COVID first dropped and he was like, oh, we can't do shows. And like, this is all, everything's changing. We were talking about this in a private conversation and with some other people. And one of the stories that came to my mind

that I thought was just ingenious was the Swiss Army knife company. And I could be quoting this story wrong, but the way I remember hearing it is when 9-11 happened and you couldn't take knives on the airplanes anymore, they were like, oh, like, this is our whole business. Like, people are not going to be buying knives, or their sales went down, or they were, like, sort of, like, scrambling.

And they said, Swiss Army is a brand. It's more than just a knife. So then they started making luggage and, like, you know, bags and all these different products. And they just took the little badge, and they stuck it on there, and they used that same quality. So they found a way to kind of get around these restrictions or their businesses. And they didn't stop selling knives. You're still selling knives.

But now you're selling so much more. Yeah. Right? And so we were talking with Brett about this. And so he was like, yeah, like, and so that just sort of like, I think that sort of way of looking at the way life changes and things happen in the circumstances, like you said, entrepreneurs will always find a way. I think life always finds a way.

And so it's that mindset of, you know, oh, this door is closing. Okay, so where's the one that's opening? And I like, I know that in my being, there is always a new way. And also the growth that you go through. through to find that new path and then to to capitalize on that, to grow that. It's like, oh, wow, like look at who we've become from what COVID has brought us. The journey you've had to walk. Well, yeah, I always point to, and Alex Jones is such a controversial figure.

Yeah. And for, rightfully so. Yeah. I don't think there's any argument on it. But he's been removed from everything. Yeah. To one single point, right? Infowars.com.

His website. Yeah. Right. That's what he's got. Yeah. And yet think about like how. how many people go to that bloody thing. Oh, yeah.

It's insane. It's millions, billions, bomb, millions of people go to one spot that they just can't find a way to scrub them from the internet. And if they did find a way,

he'd find a new way. And, I mean, we were just talking about the Streisand effect. You know, they're trying to do something. And as they try, something is going to ricochet off. They did not predict.

Like, think of the, as they choked us all out, this beautiful brand of all these independent media of people just started out and all these, podcast are probably. Now you can't keep up to him because there's so much good content in Canada across North America where you're like, man, this is phenomenal. And like the access to it is

phenomenal. You know, like Peterson's starting up his like on the online university to try and attack. And I'm like, what a brilliant idea. You know, like kids are going to have the ability to access the most brilliant minds. Now, do I want like I personally think going to a campus and living out that experience is better than sitting on TV and watching. And saying that, the ability to access all the brilliant minds of the world is something that our age group had never had. Like, I mean, that's what's so fantastic about hopping on, like, YouTube

and listening to the group of them right now, well, what is it, nine-part series folks, of Exodus, where it's Peterson and Pazzo and all these people dissecting the book of Exodus. You're like, this is unreal. Like the broadcast medium to get it out, to the entire world all it wants, just sitting there. Now, of course, governments don't seem to like that very much because, I mean, geez, like there's some ideas

that really counteract what they're trying to do. And, I mean, there's a lot of rabbit holes into what they're trying to do. Well, I think it's ultimately control because if you have that much power, you're not going to want to give it up. And so if you have power over the media, think about how much power the media has had

up until the Internet and YouTube in this sort of era. They controlled all the narratives. they controlled all the stories and like the media companies now are all owned by a select few group of major corporations and so to have that much power to control the narrative, the words that we use

how we view things to kind of get that sort of the jump start on something happens and we're going to frame it this way with this language to craft this narrative to move it's almost like hurting

cattle or sheep or something you're kind of like moving the storyline, the perspective in this way. If you have that much power, obviously it's going to attract a certain quality of person that's going to want to have that type of power, in my belief. And the people that are attracted to that type of power, to me, would probably be like someone who's psychopathic

or someone who is, you know, a narcissist. Yeah, right, because the people that have that kind of power that inspire me are the ones that are always returning it to the people. They're always then using that to return it to the people and empower them. And on the flip side, obviously, you can have the flip side as well. You can have people that just want it all for themselves. And so that's what I see going on is that this is the death throws of the centralized control of the narrative and of story and of media and information. And it's a fight.

I think life will always win. I think that good triumphs over evil. But that doesn't mean we don't have to go through it. And it doesn't mean it ain't bloody. And it ain't bloody. There are consequences. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are consequences.

So you got to be careful. And the other thing is, is like, you, you know, I bring this up lots, but Julie Panassia, I had Julie Panassion. And it was like, she was telling me, you know, after she, I think she just left her job. And I was like, so like, like, how long does this go on for three, six months? And like, the look on her face, you know, it was like, you're a moron. And I'm like, no, I'm just green and I probably was a moron. I think, you know, because now I'm like, uh, the death throw. How long does this go?

Does it go on a generation? Is it five years? Is it two years? What do you think? I don't know. Like, I look at, okay, I, I, I look at a couple of key years. So, one is 2030. 2030, all these things are targeted for, we're racing towards it.

Now, between here in 2030, specifically in Canada, you got an election on 2025, right? So you got, does Pierre Pohliav get elected? The polls say he does. Everybody knows my thoughts on polls at this point. I just, I'm not a huge believer in everything poll because there's a lot of people who just don't interact with that realm. And so I'm a question it. Regardless, you got an election coming in 2025, hopefully sooner,

but, you know, by all accounts, 2025. So 2025, we're two years away from that. And we're going to find out if we get another five years of Trudeau. And if we do, you best be, you're damn well certain at 2030, like the next seven years are going to be what they're going to be. Regardless, next two years are, it doesn't matter at this point. No matter how many things he steps in, nothing changes, and we just keep marching the same tune towards the next election,

where it looks like they're going to try and shut down as much free speech and things that call Trudeau. They're going to try and shut everything down. They're going to try and bring back in control so they can control the narrative. Now, is there holes to my argument? Sure. But 2025 is a big year for Canada. Then you have 2030 where all these are leading towards, you know, like we're not going to have any...

That's what they say. Electric power or gas powered vehicles being sold anymore or developed and there's all these targets and on and on. So everything is pushing towards this. The weight behind the argument is getting closer and closer to 2030. And so you go like, well, the march towards 2030 is pretty dark. Do you feel that happening, though? Do you think that we're actually going to get to that point? Well, every time I think we're starting to win a little bit, you know, like the different policies come out in regards to kids and like the LGBTQ2SLIA plus community and like what they're going to teach kids and their rights and made like, you know, made.

Oh, the assisted dying stuff. Yeah. And all these and all these things are just ramping up. They're not slowing down. None of these are slowing down. Maybe people are becoming a more aware, but they're ramping up. And, you know, you got the fight with the health supplements, you know, Michelle Buckley. And so, like, none of this is new.

Actually, what gives me a little bit of peace is this has been going on for a long time. It's just that they're all ramping up. And you have a government that is aimed directly at 2030. I mean, geez, in the UK, you have the doomsday clock has been pressed. And they have an actual clock counting down the time we have to get to a point where we can save the world. And you're like, what? Yeah, yeah. King Charles now, right? King Charles? King Charles? Yeah, yeah, the royal family. He pressed it.

There's a clock? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, guys. And so you go, like, this is where they're pushing towards. So when I look at the years, I go, okay, how long is he going to take? It's like, well, 2030 is a big year, whether we want to admit it or not, not in the way that I think the world ends, but life gets, like, they're on this, they're, no matter how many times I hear a common sense argument, we were pushing harder and harder and harder to. towards 2030 because whether you believe it or not, they believe it. That 2030 is a big year and we've got to hit all these goals and we've missing all these goals. And so we're going to make these goals and we're going to force it as hard as we can. But don't you think that the harder they push with the less and less people, because I don't feel, I could be wrong on this, but I don't feel like more and more people are aligning with this agenda and this narrative. I would agree.

I would say more people are going, I don't know both of this. Yeah. So my feeling on this is the harder they push to get this because they're behind, the worst it's going to be because it's like it's like forcing something like you said it's like the squeezing and then it just kind of splinters out now that doesn't mean there's not going to be carnage and chaos and they're not going to keep upping things i just don't see it sticking um that doesn't mean that you don't have to fight back yeah yeah and stand up and speak truth and have courage i'm just saying i'm not doom and gloom about it like i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not doom and gloom about okay i'm more i'm more uh

and i don't let me come off that way okay you're asking how long it takes and i go realistically the march towards 2030, we're well underway. We probably went well underway, you know, people who, you know, talked about all these different dark agendas or whatever and how they've been influencing society underneath. It's just becoming more and more exposed. And as it becomes more and more exposed,

you go, well, 2030 is a big year. Yeah, yeah. Whether I think it's a big year, they think it's a big year. That's not doom and gloom. I look at it and I go, so we have, you know, thank goodness for runway. And you go, you just keep working on your communities,

keep, you know, meeting people, talking to people, building things, taking care of your family, building strong relationships, because when tough time come, that's what you're going to lean on. Look at what's going on with Russia, Ukraine.

Do I know exactly what's going on? No. But man, if they have tried so hard to lure all of NATO into World War III, it is not even funny anymore. It's just like it's so evident. And now you've got another thing over in Palestine and Israel.

I'm no expert. I don't know enough. I just go like everything's trying to lure the entire world it feels like into this cataclysmic event. And I have zero fear on it. I really hope cool heads prevail. Yeah. And sitting in this chair, I just go, well, I've got to take care of what I can take care of. That's the people around me.

That's the relationships I've formed. I've got to take care of trying to make sure that we find a way around the CRTC thing, whether it ever gets to the extreme of it or it's something narrow. And easily, I'm not 10 million and it's not a big deal. Got to be prepared for these things so that I can continue to do what I do to help give information out to the people that are searching and wanting it the most. Yeah, I mean, I think that I try to employ the same strategy as like what can I control, what can't, what, what do I have the power over and how do I take care of my own, like Jordan Peterson said, we'd say clean your room, make your bed, you know. I think that's a great metaphor of just like take care of your own life first and not metaphor and actual practical, you know, make your bed, like clean your house, get yourself and organized and in an order. And then all the other stuff in the world, yeah, obviously you want to support people that are being targeted or injured or killed and have compassion for the atrocities in the world.

But also don't let that like just ruin your whole life because you have to live. And the most impact you can have is when you are healthy, when you are taking care of yourself so that you have that energy to support others that are going through challenging times or to help your community, which is sometimes easier to said than done, right? because we get emotional and things are tough and things are scary and things are crazy out in the world right now. Like I, you know, I miss a few days online and I'm like, I feel like a year went by with like the updates and things that are going. It's happening so fast. And you see all these jokes and these memes about what's going on in the world. And it's like, you know, time is, well, people said this. Like time is speeding up, right? So it's a crazy time to be alive and to try and navigate this world with how much is happening and how much is seeking our attention and to, you know, the news media,

always trying to get us to pay attention. So they have to use language and frame it in a certain way to make you scare. And it's like, man, like people's adrenals must just be burnt out. Have you ever heard of a guy named Martin Armstrong? No. Martin Armstrong came on the podcast, episode 461. So like roughly 50 episodes. And if you listen to that one, you're like, oh, man, that was something. There's a lot of, of people in the financial community that put like a ton of stock in what he's saying. He's a brilliant guy. He built this computer called Socrates.

It, um, I don't know. Can I say it tries to predict the future or it does predict the future? It's been right on a lot of things when it comes to stocks and what the markets are showing. And, and, uh, one of the things he points to, and I've been listening to him now for, I think, for sure three years. And I've had him on the podcast. Like he was, he was a, the first one was interesting because we just got to know each other. time you don't get to, this is what I was saying about us having coffee last night.

The lovely thing is, is we get kind of some of the formalities out of the way, which for the listener, I don't know, is that good or is that bad? I don't know. For me, I love it because now we get to, we know on each other a little bit. Marty Armstrong, the first time he's on, is a little bit more of like what made him him. He got put in prison in the States for 12 years. For this computer program? Yeah, for set up embezzling money, different things. When he tells the story, I'm like, you know, do you believe everything out of his mom? Well, I believe a lot more than what, you know, because I've seen what governments do,

and they wanted what he had, and they found a way to put him in a position that he couldn't get out of, and so he sat in prison for 12 years, like one of the most high-profile prisons in the United States. Wild story. Socrates talks about 2032. This all flips,

or it all starts to change in 2032. So when we talk about time, do you believe Martin, Armstrong? Did it predict the freedom convoy? Did it predict all these things? I don't know. He's just, it's just a computer monitoring markets and a bunch of different things. Interesting. And you go, well, he says 2032. I can't see past 2030 and 2025. And so I guess what I'm trying to hopefully expand on is I no longer look, I started at like three months, six months. I look at it, well, for sure it's years. For sure. For sure, this is not just all of a sudden

snap our fingers in a way it goes, you know. know, like Saskatchewan, came out and said, no more third parties teaching sex ed in schools, right? Then a giant law firm came from Ontario, filed an injunction against them and said, this goes against human rights, you know, trans rights. And so now they've got an injunction. So now you have this, so that's been put in place.

So now, essentially, third parties could come back to schools again, right? All the parents were all pumped. Now, whether they know it or not, they can actually come back into Saskatchewan schools. So now Scott Moe has a choice, and it's the Nautless Stanning Clause. Oh, yes, I heard about this. To be like, nope, we're going to strike this down and boom. And so you go like, and even if he does that, then, okay, so it happens for a couple years and I think it's five years that it lasts.

And in five years, it'll come up again. And then it'll come up again. And so I look at it and I go, right now where we sit in the West is I used to think in the course of months, days, weeks. and now I'm like for sure years, if not every five years or decades. And I just, Soljanism was the first one who I thought, nobody can play this game like that. Nobody can think that long. Except you learn that's what the Chinese do.

They think in a long term. They think over the course of a generation. Soljanitsyn talks about the big game of Solitaire and how some moves are quick and other moves take for a long time and then they laid the card down in it. And so I go like, I'm just thankful, I guess I see it, and it doesn't bother me anymore because I remember, thinking like I don't want to do this for 10 years. I don't want to talk about but here here is the adventure of life that we've all been searching for and sitting right in front of us and you you can actually

see what is right and what is wrong for the most part on a lot of different topics and more and more people are starting to figure out that something is drastically off and that by sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing it only gets worse and so you know as we march closer and closer to really hard times, whatever that looks like, because lots of people right now in Canada are struggling. As we get further and further into it, and more and more people fall into that, the opportunity for change increases immensely. Yeah. It's, uh, what's that, I think, I don't know if this is an actual statistic, but I remember

hearing it somewhere that when the cost of food reaches a certain percentage of someone's income, that's when people start to ride on the streets and like there's like chaos because, you know, I think it's like 50% or it was some significant, I don't remember the actual percentage. And I think that, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the grocery stores, be the lower your prices. Oh, my God. Anyways, um, so yeah, I, you, you can't make this up. Yeah, you can make this stuff up. I know, we got, we got, we got an idea for, for, uh, lowering your food costs. We're going to add in another tax and it's going to really help you. It's like, man, in your government, you've added in like 10 taxes. None of it's making my life any easier.

Yeah. Um, um, Yeah, anyways, I look at the changes happening and I see there, you don't have a choice. This is what I was thinking about the other night in terms of what it means to be in Canada and Canadian. And there is a spirit. There is an essence. There's values that we have in our chart of rights and freedoms and in who we are as Canadians. And if you are not actively participating in upholding the rules and the values that we, what we have here, then they will collapse.

And it's like if we're playing a board game and you start cheating and you start taking money from the Monopoly Bank and I don't say anything and nobody else says anything. Well, it's only a matter of time before the whole game falls apart. Or before you catch a left hook or off the table. Exactly. Or it breaks out into violence. Exactly. So it's like if we're not standing up for the rule of law and the values that we have and we're not shaping this collective group organizing saying this is the game we want to play And it's called in Canada.

And this is what it means to be Canadian. This is how we're going to play this game so that everybody can have a good time and get along and raise their family and make a life for themselves. If we're not actively upholding that, it's falling apart. So you only have like that two choice to be apathetic and to witness the falling apart or to uphold it and to be active in it and to stand up. And so that's what I see more and more people doing. That's what my experience has been of. I've been apathetic to most of politics because I'm just like, well, it doesn't really matter. I have my own life to worry about and I don't really, there's other people that are smarter than me that are doing this stuff and which there are a lot of smart people in politics and in the world of these policymaking.

But it's it's the active role, I believe, of everyone that's a part of the group. We're all here for a party. We're all here to enjoy life and to celebrate life. And so I believe that it's a part of being in this place, in this collective of contributing and standing up for the spirit of it and expressing our values. and what we want to uphold, and that's not easy in the short term, but it pays off in the long term. And like going to the gym, like, we'll be saying this last night, choose your heart. Are you going to choose the heart of being out of shape and unhealthy? Or are you going to choose the heart of going to the gym and eating right?

Are you going to choose the heart of your country falling apart? Or are you going to choose the heart of trying to hold it together? Trying to hold it together. What's your heart? Because there's no easy way. There is no easy way. And our minds want there to be an easy way that someone else will figure this out. That's not the way life works.

And I think the quicker that we can sort of digest that and understand that and accept that responsibility, then we can really make that decision to get our health in order, get our diet in order, clean up our room, speak up, share our minds, and respectfully too. I don't want everyone to agree with me. I know a lot of people don't out there with my perspectives on COVID and different things. And that's okay. I want to have a respectful conversation with people and engage in it. I think it's when you can't have a conversation, like when 9-11 happened and people said, you can't question anything about it because you're desecrating the lives and the families of

those people that died. And I'm going, what? I can be respectful and honor those people that died and ask questions. Like, why does asking a question invalidate these people's suffering? Well, we're in dangerous. See, 9-11 to me, I don't know, because we're the same age, right? So like maybe you can enlighten me on a bit more of the 9-11 thought process. And saying that on here, when I asked people, what was your like wake-up call? One guy said 9-11, I thought it was, and I thought it was going to be for like some like conspiracy a part of it. And I don't even mean to use the word conspiracy. I just like, you know, some theory.

Alternative theory. Yeah. Instead, he was like, the emotion it admitted me. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I wanted to go kill people because of the emotion that did. And I went, oh, boy, that's dangerous. And I was like, wow, that's a thought. Like, what a lovely thought that is,

because that doesn't have to be, that could be so many different events. Yeah. And you think that's, you know, that's what they're trying to pull off with a whole bunch of things, or at least it feels that they're trying to pull my emotion out. Because that's a very, um...

And when you're emotionally charged like that, you can't think straight. And I think, I was talking with my mom about this, um, years ago. And she's like, well,

that emotion is what gets you to take action and to write these wrongs. And I'm like, there is such thing, and I believe, as a righteous anger, if you see a child being molested or attacked or you're going to have an anger rise up in you and that's a healthy anger

and you need to then go and help and protect that child. 100%. I'm not saying that you just go, oh, I'm going to be zen and I'm not feeling this anger. No, no, no, no. You need to take action on those things. That's a natural response. What I think is dangerous is when you get

the seeing red thing and you just see blood and you just want to see people hurt. And to me, that is a trauma response to this pain that you are feeling inside. whether it be 9-11 or anything else that has triggered a horrible event. And then that has made you so upset that that emotion now runs you. And it is, like you said, for this person, they want to kill people.

And that's what kind of triggered them. And I was like, whoa, look, where did this come from? For me, I have alarm bells that go off. If I ever get to that point of like seeing red, I'm like, slow down, man, because you're about to do something stupid and this is dangerous. Well, that's why, you know, taking a night to sleep on it is such a good thing. thing because you kind of like, huh, right? I've had a time to like kind of digest and think about this. It's like when you get an argument with your spouse or something, you're like, this, we just

take a break, let's cool off, we'll come back to this, let's just take five minutes, you know, and settle because if we're going to, if we're going to get it, we're too emotionally charged right now. There's too much and it's just going to get ugly. So well, usually, take a break. Usually with my wife, it amounts to like a couple of the things, right? It amounts to food. Usually one of us hasn't eaten. You're hungry, you know? Or you're tired. You're just wore out because young kids have a way of just like, they're so awesome. Like this morning, you know, before I came here, they were playing, they're doing, my two oldest are starting piano.

I can't read music, not a lick. So my wife's like, you know, you're just like, and she's around, I'm like, I have no idea on. And I'm going to be honest. I think it's cool to what they're doing. I'm so happy they're doing it. I want to sit there and listen. And so they got the two oldest and they bicker all the time, just like siblings do it, drives me nuts. I don't know how parents, you know, you never think about this until you're a parent,

but as a parent, you're like sitting there and like, what are you guys doing? You know, but someday I'll be like, those are great days. In the middle of it, sometimes it's much. But this morning they're sitting there playing piano, and they're like, kind of like, I don't know, it's not cheering each other on, but like really encouraging. Oh, nice. And I'm like, man, this is a cool moment, you know? I'm like, I'm going to remember this one, you know?

And normally with my children right now, that's not the case. Usually they're at each other. But I bring it back with my wife, you know, most of the time when we're angry at one another, usually because we're not, you know, you're just, you're hungry. Yeah. It's like, okay, let's get food in. Yeah. Or you're tired.

Yeah. It's like, okay, let's get you some rest. And then let's talk about some things. Because like when you're engaged, you know, 99% of the time, even if we disagree, we can disagree. Respectfully. Respectfully. Thank you. I think that's like the most important thing and that's what I I I think I think it's coming back,

which I think is great. More and more people are understanding the power of, hey, we don't have to agree on things. And that's actually like great that we can like have a discussion and learn from each other. And we were talking about this, I think last night as well. It's like people say don't talk about money. Don't talk about politics. Don't talk about religion. And it's like, yeah, but like if you can do those conversations with respect,

those are the most exciting conversations. Those are juicy. Why did we sit and talk God for three hours last? We talk about God too, yeah. And it's like, well, because I'm really interested in it. And I said this the other day, like I want to commandeer one of their words. I want to normalize it because to me, like there's strange thing. You can't like live in today's world.

Probably you've never been able to live in the world and not notice like, that's strange. And, you know, anything else, you know, we can talk about strange. Oh, yeah, that's strange. because strange and weird, there are two words in the English dictionary that just means so much more, right? It's like, I don't know how to quite explain this. And the idea of God, the idea of this world that, you know, exists that cannot be seen, it's like, you talk to enough people, everybody's seeing it feeling it, but nobody will talk about it. And I'm like, oh, this is COVID all over again. You know, I don't know.

Like, to me, that it's just, it's like, we're not supposed to talk about it. Why? Well, because they'll think you're crazy. Well, man, we're all crazy. And they think I'm really crazy. Okay. Like, I know, there's probably somebody chuckling somewhere because they're like, at some point, I interviewed this guy named Peter McCullough, and they're like, oh, my God.

Like, I had people vaccinated, I'm going, that was freaking awesome. And I'm like, you're vaccinated. Yeah, but that was like, that was electric radio. Then I had other people going, this is freaking insane. You need to be casual. And I'm like, whoa, this is, we're talking about something. You know, when you talk about questions, the day that comes and COVID in the middle of it got close to this, very close.

Yeah. Where you can't question what is going on? We live in dangerous, perilous times. And I think there would be older people than me, maybe even younger, that would say we've been in those times for a long time, maybe as long as the world's been rolling. And maybe we just realize it. Maybe we're just coming to the realization that we're in these times,

and they've always been there, and we're just, oh, it's our time to realize this and start to talk towards it. And we hold something very fragile in our hands, especially in Canada and in the United States, that most of the world doesn't have. And it's our responsibility to try and, like, guide the ship without running into, like, the 80 minds that are laid out in front of us that are trying to sink.

Like, I mean, it's, whether people realize it's actively trying to be sunk or not, like, there are pitfalls with what we do. It's not a, it's not an easier, beautiful little process. It's pretty messy at times. But it's necessary to be, that way because like like anything in life the the challenge is worth the effort um or the the the end is worth it and you know you go to the gym it's hard but the result is worth it and i think you know

stepping up for this precious thing that we have to be able to speak freely and and honor that and stand for it stand behind it that's worth it and it will be and i i think it's great that it's it's and it's messy. I am enjoying this process of standing more in my power, appreciating the values and the freedoms that people have fought and died for to protect and to create and to preserve. I think that's a, I love it. And I think that's great. And I don't want it to be easy.

I think it should be hard. I think it should be difficult. Because that's how we say this is valuable. this is something worthwhile. If it was easy, then I don't think it would be harder to appreciate it, I guess what I'm trying to say. Does that make sense? Am I talking in circles?

No, I don't think so. What comes to mind is, is, were you always, you know, I've interviewed different people where from like 12 years old, they were the person questioning authority. You know, like through your career and through going through television and all these, like, pretty cool things, to be honest. I'm like, you know, like, did you get to ask? on a set with, I don't know, Clint Eastwood or something, I don't think so.

But, I mean, you got to glimpse, you get to glimpse X-Files, and I mean, you can love or hate that show, but, like, that's an iconic show. Oh, yeah, that was great. Were you always that person, or did something happen along the way? You know, was there a red pill moment?

Was there a moment where you just was like, or did you always, were you always the kid that just questioned authority? Um, there's a couple moments. come to mind. The first one when I was a very young boy, I was riding in the car with my mom, and I said, because my mom, I was raised Catholic, and I said to my mom, mom, you know, what if somebody didn't know Jesus or God, and they lived in a,

in a country far away or in another place, and they died, would they go to hell? And she says, no, she says, well, from what I remember saying, sorry, mom, if this is not what you said, but from the way I remember it, she said, no, she says, you know, God would, you know, assess their life when they come to heaven and knock on the gates and, you know, see if they were a good person. And so I was like, oh, okay, so like you could still go to heaven even if you didn't go to church and you didn't know God and blah, blah, blah. She says, well, yeah, but you'd have to, you know, make sure that, you know, you were a good person, if they were a good person and God would judge you at that time. And so I was like, okay, so I was trying to think about this. I'm like, okay, so then if that's

true, then why to go to church at all? Isn't it just about how you live your life? Like, how does that work? like does if everyone's a good person then do they all like so I was trying to like understand at a young age at a young age and like how does this work and like if you can learn lessons in purgatory then why learn them on earth and is there such a thing as purgatory and are there multiple lives I just remember at a young age as kind of being like how does this work and more so how does this make sense to you mom or how does this make sense to you like we are in conversations last night I'm like I'm just curious about like how does it work for you like how does that make sense because I want to see and I just want to be like, oh, that's cool, or like, I don't get it.

Like, explain to me more. So I've always been someone to ask questions, and maybe that's, you know, being homeschooled from a young age. I want to know how this works. And I want to understand what it is that lights people up, what it is that God means to them or their own spiritual path. I want to learn and explore it because every time I've gone down that road, I've always found something interesting.

It's like, I think, I think that's just kind of been in me. And then the other thing was about the questioning when 9-11 happened and I was in grade nine. I think we were in grade 9. We were in grade 10. Grade 10. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, I don't know how fast you're going through homeschool. Maybe you're grade 12. No, I was in public school at that point. But yeah, so that was one thing for me and I started. Grade 10 English classes when the TV got rolled in and the teacher told me to shut up and sit down and we sat and watched that all day long. Yeah. Yeah. Same here. Same thing happened. And nobody took offense at the word shut up. Everyone's like, oh, right. Yeah. And I remember maybe that summer, short time after that documentary, which is one of the first viral documentaries

that ever got released just online, that loose change. I don't know if you ever saw a loose change. It's funny. I've since watched it. And I'm like, did I live under a rock? I'd never seen it until this year. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. I'm like, I don't know where I was. Yeah. You know, I, you know, I spent a lot of time online. Did you spend a lot of time online when you were younger? No, my wife makes fun. I mean, when I was, um, was in college, right? So 2007, till 2011, I didn't even have a cell phone. I was just, everybody called her. I was just like, honestly, today, folks, I could probably get rid of my cell phone and the only thing I'd miss is the interactions with the audience. Yeah. The rest of it, I'm like, I'd rather not be able to anyone get a hold of it. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, way much prefer just being able to, like there's something freeing when I come in this studio. And I turn that thing and I go, I don't care if the world's fall on paro side. There's nothing else but this room.

And to me, I get a dose of that almost every single day. But there's a lot of people who never can detach themselves from the phone. Yeah. And, no, you go back to 9-11. No, I mean, I was online, but no. We lived on the farm. We had dial-up internet. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

So, like, I wasn't, I just, I don't even know if I had the brain to fully digest what loose change is and was back then. I was, you know, at that time, I was, Lord of the Rings was just coming out in theaters, and we were going to Lord of the Rings at midnight on Thursday nights. Think about that, watching a three-hour movie. I was pumped. I just, I lived in, I lived in Tolkien's world. I lived in Harry Potter. I'm forgetting the lady's name right now. That's terrible.

But I was living in her world. And I was just so mesmerized by these stories that were larger than life. And, you know, like, no, like 9-11 happened. And I didn't fully comprehend, oh, yeah, like, oh, that's terrible. You know, like, for sure. Like, holy crap. I mean, I thought it was terrible, but I didn't know the implications of what was coming to come. implications of what was coming down the pipe, right?

Like, I mean, and, you know, like, I've been naive an awful long time in my life. I still probably am naive about a lot of things. And sometimes with that naivety, you could ask really good questions because you just, you just step on landmines and you go, oh, that's who I am, you know? So sorry, 9-11. So that's what I stumbled upon online. When YouTube first came out, I heard about it, and I was, what is this? And you could, back in the day on YouTube, you could see the most watch videos of the day of the week, of the month of the year.

You could see it in real time. Wow. What a, what a thing that they now control, hey? Yeah. I remember when they took that away, I was like, that was the best part of YouTube. You could literally see that you could take the, what was going viral. Yeah, you could take the heartbeat of what was going viral in real time. And it wasn't suggested or the trending tab that's all formulated to like, here, here's what you want you to watch.

Now, it's a load of BS. Yeah. So back in the day. you could actually find that. And I think Bitshoot, and some other websites have that too, where they brought that back, where you can find the things that are popping. Anyways, I think that's probably where I found it.

It was on YouTube and the trending, or not in the trending, in the most viewed. And I was like, what is this? And I watched it. And I was like, whoa. And it reminded me, it brought me back to when I first saw Oliver Stone's JFK film. And I watched that film and I was just like, oh, whoa, there's like an official story.

And then there's other things that don't make sense. and there's other things that like what's going on behind the curtain. And so this was kind of like a, you know, obviously the film had a lot of, you know, big questions and things that maybe didn't turn out to be true, but they were asking questions. And I was like, well, what's wrong with asking questions? Like, what happened to this and what happened to these things and why did this happen? And I think there are some times and I think everyone can get that sense when the questions just kind of go a little too far off and you're kind of like, okay, like, or at least I can sense this.

It's like it's almost like they're trying to go viral by asking really crazy questions. They just want attention. And that's fine. Go, go ahead. You know. But I don't think that should ever be a crime to ask questions. I don't think you ever should. Well, the thing with questions that are, is difficult.

And this is where we got to last night, is there's just a limit to the human race's knowledge. Yeah. So when you question, probably some of the pushback is like, well, I don't know. And I'm frustrated because I want to know, you know. It's like, oh, crap. Why didn't I think of that? have all these experts that are supposed to know. And you're pushing them to the break.

That's what's lovely about questions and bringing different minds together, sorry. And having them like bash off each other in the best possible way, if you would, right? And seeing what comes of it. Because out of that, you're like, oh, man, I never thought. I mean, Jordan Peterson and Rogan the first time they ever, ever graced each other. And is like one of the most electric, I don't know how long it was. Was it three hours? I couldn't get out of the vehicle.

I was like, I can't get out. Like, this is something. And you only get, you know, that moment happens. Certainly it happens on every podcast. But it doesn't happen every episode. It's impossible to recreate that. But sometimes you just get where it comes together and you're like, this is, this is unbelievable. Right.

You get those movies too. Yeah. The genuine exploration of an idea or of a question. And it's delivered in such a way that you're like, yes, I want to explore this too. Yes. And there's a genuine pushback as opposed to just agreement or just resistance to it and denial or, you know. So we're all searching for like the limitation of our knowledge. Then we find somebody who has, somebody once told me it's like a giant puzzle.

And we all have a little piece to put it. And if you get the full puzzle, but you're missing one piece, you're like, where is the missing piece? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's a big puzzle in life, right? and podcasting, it really starts to put in some pieces that you're like, I knew that was there, but I just didn't get it.

Oh, that makes sense. And one of the things that's difficult about large ideas, you know, like we throw around God now. It's funny, like a year ago when I had Drew on, the first time I ever brought up God,

he sat in that chair and was kind of like, well, you know, and I'm kind of teasing Drew, but I mean, I think he can remember, right? That was like last May. And,

God was kind of still a taboo thing. And I kind of caught myself surprised by just going, do you believe in God? You know? And now it's become, certainly for a portion of the population, one of the most talked about things. Because it's like, okay,

something's going on. We need to get to the bottom of this. Let's talk about it because I'm tired of not talking about it. But that puts us all to the limit of our knowledge. Like, I don't know. And that's when you say, I'm just searching them. What works for you? Oh, I should try that.

Maybe that would work for me. And see what happens. And then, you know, people can listen and go like, that isn't for me. Yeah. Or that sounds really interesting. Yeah. Same way we were carnivore diet or plants. Oh my God.

The list of diets is like insane. There's the cold tub thing. Or the cold plunge, yeah, yeah, yeah. The cold plunge, right? Does it work? Oh, yeah, it does. Do I want to do that to my body every single day? No, the answer is no.

I don't know. Does that make me soft? I don't know. Jiu-jitsu works. Yeah. Do you want to go do jiu jutsu every day? That's Drew. And I'm like, I admire the shit at him for her.

I'm like, man, I have black belt and throwing people around and choking them out. Man, that's cool. But there's a lot of pain in that. Totally. It goes back to your commercials. Like, that's pain of getting told no that many times. That's hockey. That's a lot of life, especially, you know, when you get into, well, I don't know, podcasting at the start.

It's worse than no. It's no replies. Jordan Peterson, someday, I'm going to get them. And I'm going to say, you know how many no replies that? they got from your team, no replies. Not a single, like, sorry you're not interested. You need to be here. This is the person you talk to.

Nothing. Drives me nuts. But he's not the only one. I point him out because he's a guy that I want. Really, really bad. But, like, there's so many people that never reply, the no replies on this side of the world. How do you take that when you get no reply?

What's your process to move through that? Because obviously, it's kind of like you'd rather just them say no. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's kind of like being told you can't do something, you know? No, science is kind of like, you can't do that. Or you're not good enough or whatever the terminology you want to use. So I actually get a little bit fired up and then I try harder.

And usually when I try harder, I break through it and I find the answer or the person. That's how I've got, you know, the list of guess, that's how I've got them all, is I'm very persistent. My persistence has not paid off for Jordan Peterson and Wayne Grexky. That is the only two. Jordan Peterson I got I don't know supposedly I've got to a gatekeeper

supposedly I've got an email to the gatekeeper but no email back just be like no we're not interested or you got to get like I would take you need to have one million followers on Twitter and then we'll talk to you well then at least I can go okay or to get Jordan Peterson I need to get one million

unless how are we going to do this or whatever their stipulation is I don't know maybe they go you're just not interesting enough that would hurt but I'd be like fair okay I can work on that or what have you Like, what are you looking for?

You know? So the, the, it, it fires me out because I want to. I want to go out and do things. So now I've, you know, I've picked off like 15 guests Jordan Peterson's at. At some point, he's going to be like, oh, man, he's had like two of my closest friends on. Maybe that works. Maybe it doesn't work. I don't know.

But I've had fun getting there, you know, like someday, you know, when we talk about the journey. Yeah. Who's leading this podcast? First day when we get when we get to Jordan Peterson, that journey will be over and they'll start a new one, right? Why would it be over? Because he's like a, for me, he's like a peak of a mountain. And I know there's another peak after him.

Because of his influence on your life. Yeah. Yeah. He is why I'm doing, like, it's why all this started. And so the journey to get him there, as much as I want to get there tomorrow, the chase of it, you know, the thrill of the chase is so much fun. It's like, ah, I know I'm getting closer. is closer. I'm like, is it just around the corner or do I got five more years to go, you know?

And that's just as much fun as everything. Like people on this podcast, think about this, people on this podcast bought me a VIP ticket to Regina. I'm going to get to shake the man's hand, okay? Oh, coming up. This is a year ago. Oh, it was a year ago. Okay, okay. He's in Regina. He's coming to Regina. And it's like, I don't know, what was it? Three weeks out, he cancels all shows in Saskatchew, I'm like, what is going on? I'm not allowed to do this? I'm not allowed to do this. Okay, okay, okay.

Interesting that you said that, I'm not allowed to do this. Why did you put that meaning on it? Well, just that, like, it's not time yet. Yeah, that's not time yet. That's another meaning. That's, I guess that's the way I look at, okay. This is going to happen. Yeah.

The only thing stopping this happening is death. So I look at this going, I die too soon, Jordan Peterson dies too soon, whatever it is. Or you're going to talk. Or we're going to talk. Yeah. Because I'm not, I'm never going to stop pursuing this idea, this idea of bringing him in. I mean, okay, let's take it at the simplest sense.

I go pay the man $200,000 something, roughly tomorrow. Maybe it's a bit more than that now. We could have him in Lloyd Minster. Like, we could solve this problem immediately. Maybe that's what I should do. Maybe I should just find a way to bring him to Lloyd Minster, pay an exorbitant amount of money, to have a guy come in and he could do a show, and then we could have a podcast after. It's all done.

I'm like, is that what I want to do? I don't know. That's an interesting question. When you kind of tune into that, does that feel like the choice that needs to be made? Or do you feel like natural? Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't. Like I don't get me wrong.

Like maybe that is an option there. But I'm like at some point it's just going to snap in. And when it snaps in, you're going to sit across from a man and he's going to go, who are you? And I'm going to go, this is who I am. And I've been a dog on a bone now for five years trying to get a hold of you. You come from the province I live in. Like I know you've, you've altered the. course of so many Canadians lives. He already knows that. But now we got a big fight. We got a real

big fight and we need all the big bats to come. It isn't just Jordan Peterson who's Canadian, who's from Alberta that needs to come. It's like, you know, honestly, for me, it's all the people that are quiet. Jordan Peterson's as loud as it gets. It's all the people that are quiet that are seeing what's going on. And there's big names from Canada that maybe they believe in everything that's going on. Probably not. They probably sit in a cold. Most of the world. Most of the People I talk to. Probably in a closed room. I disagree with it, but, you know, I just can't because of, you know, what happened

when Ice Cube came out on Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan? Man, wasn't that something? You know? Like, that was, that was cool. Yeah. Like, that's like, interesting meets cool all the same time. You're like, man, that's, we can have that here in Canada. We got it all just sitting there.

What would you talk, if Jordan Peterson, when Jordan Peterson is on your podcast, do you have an idea of what you would talk with him about or explore with him? It changes so much. I wrote any like I'd have to go back and read some of my emails like my problem with origin podcast so the first time anyone's on I really want to allow them to tell their story and I know Jordan Peterson's told it a thousand times but there's going to be people on my podcast that

don't have the deep dive I do into Jordan Peterson so to skip past that and I've done it a little bit with you and I hope I haven't done it too much because I want people to get a feel for who Graham is Yeah. So then they can go, I trust this guy. I like this guy. Ooh, that's an interesting story.

I see what he ticks on. So then hopefully the next time you come, we can just go further into it and build this rapport. But with Jordan Peterson, like, one of the things that I wonder what his thoughts are, twofold. One is like just men, how they become men. And I think I have a very good understanding or becoming a very good understanding. of like that and the other one is just like do you understand the impact you've had on so many men's life and i'm sure he'll say yes i just don't know where that question goes because it's such a big simple lob like oh yeah boom not home run but but he won't take it that way because of the

responsibility that has been put on his shoulders whether he realized it when he took it on or not but he's like he's he has in one breath just like brought so many people back to christianity or maybe God, or just looking at the Bible, in one fatal swoop, more than any pastor in all of Canada. And that's no, I'm not attacking any pastor. I'm just saying, there was a whole bunch of us non-believers walking around going, yeah, I got it.

But deep down, we knew something was off, and there was just this pit of meaninglessness in our lives. And we're trying to fill with everything, the latest diet, the latest this, the latest that. And then he walks in, starts talking about something that is taboo, which is the Bible, scripture, in a way that makes sense to a lot of us. And he goes, you got to just pick up your cross and bear it.

Like you've got to take responsibility for your life. And you go, oh, man, I need to hear that. Why haven't we been talking about this? I don't know how the conversation. You know, like maybe the conversation sucks. No, I don't think it's going to suck. What I wanted to encourage you to do because I can feel this coming, just emanating from you, is just speak from your heart and thank him for how you've changed,

how he's changed your life. because I think I know personally in my small ways of writing poetry and doing my thing and sharing my heart, which I'm sure you've probably experienced this as well, people reaching out to you and saying, thank you for what you're doing. There is a process of receiving

that when someone thanks you to be present and to say, I'm listening. That's a good question, because I feel very uncomfortable when somebody says, and they've said this a lot, and now I'm kind of curious how you deal with it. Okay. They come to me and they say, you know, in the darkness of COVID, you were like this little candlelight that just saved me.

I'm like, um, what? Well, thank you. Yeah. I'm like very humbled by that because I don't know, like, without all these wonderful people listening to me and encouraged me to keep going, I would have never survived. So it's like, it's kind of like tit for tat. It's like, it's a two-way street. It's why I have the podcast or the phone hooked up to all of them because I'm just like, without you, I didn't survive. as simple as that. With your poetry and having somebody come talk to you about like, listen,

this helped me through some dark day, some dark time, worst moment of my life, I don't know. You can tell your side of it. How do you deal with that? I understand that I'm doing my part. It's not an ego boost in terms of like, look at how great I am. This person is, you know, saying how much I've changed their life. I know that there are people that have severely impacted my life and been instrumental in my growth and my journey and I thank them and I acknowledge them and I know how important that is for me to share that with them and for them to know how deeply I appreciate them. So when someone comes to me and they say, you know, I enjoy your work on Heartland or I've seen this

episode. I've got fan letters from young kids and I keep them. These letters that I called my golden tickets because it's why I do whatever. I do is to impact another human being soul. And, you know, this one letter particular, this young kid wrote to me and said, I didn't have a relationship with my father. They left when I was young and I hated him and just really terrible stuff happened. And after watching your character on this Heartland horse show and what your character's

journey went through, I reached out to my father and we started talking again. We have a relationship now. And you'll never know how much this means to me that your character, your story, was what helped me rejoin that. Wow. Yeah, man. And so that's the beauty of living from your heart and sharing your gifts with the world is that your light automatically, you know, inspires others, the inspiration that God's love that flows through us as we open ourselves to it and allow it to direct our lives and we work with it and we craft these beautiful things that automatically touches other people. And it's a beautiful thing that I think I understand now that it's,

for me, it's a process of just honoring this person in what they want to share and think. And I take that as a blessing. And then I thank God for being here on earth and doing my part. But I also do my best to create a space for someone to feel hurt because I think when you want to share your heart and you want to say how something has impacted you, the best experience I've had is when someone truly listens and they are there and they hear me and they feel me for what I'm what I'm appreciating in them and what they've done for me. So when somebody says thank you, I do my best to create that space to hear them because I don't know their whole story. I know that I was just a part of it. It's not all about me. It's not like, you know, this one thing, but it's a combination

of things that lead up to that. I know so many people, including my mom and my dad, who have given me insights and lessons and gifts, but I needed to hear it from somebody else. The same thing from a different perspective or in another book and from another author or from another friend, and then it clicks. And then, you know, I thank that last person. But did I thank my mom and my dad all those times they told me to follow my heart or to be true to myself? Oh, I did. I I didn't. I just say I love you. So I understand that, you know, while I have a book of poetry or I've done some acting, that someone might say, Graham, you know, the story of your character changed my life.

And I went back and saw my dad. I'm also aware that there's probably friends and family and other things that have come into their life that have also been a support to that. So I try to remember all these things. It's like it's not about how amazing my work is. It's I just take it as going, I followed my heart and I did what I felt I needed to do. and I let myself be guided and that's amazing. And now look what it's impacting these people and that's wonderful.

And when I die, I don't get to take any of this physical stuff with me. But I do get to remember the lives that I touched and the feelings that I had and that appreciation that I have for others that impacted my life. So that to me is what I call like a golden ticket or it's like what I do things for is like that feeling of expansion and just really deeply connecting with another being. You know, when you put it that way, you think like Jordan Peterson can say all the words in the world. Graham can do the same thing.

But if the person doesn't hear it and then go out and act it on their life, it means nothing. It means nothing. You know? And so that's a very important thing for myself to hear, you know, like if I'd listen to Jordan Peterson, well, yeah, that makes sense. And then went back to just, you know, la-di-da. And I mean la-di-da in the sense that I was just, you know, I lived. for the weekend. I truly live for the weekend. And I think, you know, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just I didn't realize how much better life could be by, you know, honestly, man, whatever.

It's like, what day is weekend? It doesn't matter. Every day is so much fun right now. I don't even know what day it is at the time. Yeah, because I'm just living the same way. And I would just want to say the one thing about Jordan Peters, and I've seen him in a few instances in interviews and conversations with people and they share, you know, how they're grateful or how their lives have been impacted. And seen him listen and get emotional and really feel and take it in for the impact. And I think he's the type of person that would honor that space if you were to thank him. And I think that's an important part of life is to write thank you notes, to write thank you messages or if you can be in person and you can thank somebody. It's, well, you know, the idea of your house appreciating

in value. Well, that's the whole idea of appreciation. It grows in value when you bring your attention into something and you appreciate it, you are breathing life and value into something even more. And so by appreciating Jordan Peterson, you're giving him this gift. And I think he would, I think it would be a great conversation, obviously, but I think that would be a wonderful thing in your journey to do that, to share that with him. And like you said, it's a next chapter, kind of like marker, but on you go, more adventures. Yeah, well, I remember, for me, I remember, I wanted Wayne Grazky, 99 on 99. I thought, oh, man, this is just like, um, Like this would be a thing of beauty.

And we try, you know, like, normally when I throw everything I have, you know, I talk about empty in the arsenal. Like I'm going to hit them with a left hook and a right jab. And before they know it, they're just going to be on the podcast. I'm like, I don't know what you've been doing, but you got me here, right? And, you know, most of the time it was virtual. And certainly that had worked. And Wayne Grexke was my first taste of disappointment.

And Kelly Rudy was the guy who told me after, you know, I was just like, how do I get this guy? Just tell me how I get him. Yeah. And he said, well, listen, Wayne, everybody wants a part of Wayne. Wayne is, you know, one of the most recognizable sports figures, not just hockey in the world.

It's like, fair. And he goes, and so I have his number. I'm like, okay. And he goes, but I can't give it to you. I'm like, I wouldn't ask that of you. And he goes, yeah, that's fair. He's just like, the reason I have his number is because we protect Wayne. And if I stop protecting Wayne, I no longer have his phone number.

He goes, so there's a group of us that have it. That's it. And, you know, like, it's, he's got to want to kind of want to do what you want to do. And now, is there ways into that? Yeah, but it's building relationships. It's building rapport. It's building, like, trust with somebody that, you know, this is worth my time. Or I trust you, okay, I'll go do that.

And, you know, as a young guy in podcasting, when I first started, there's a little bit of balance to that, right? But Wayne Grexkey was the first time I ever really tasted a bit of defeat in the podcast world because everybody else I set my mind to, I got. Like, I mean, it was almost not too easy because that is not right. It was a lot of work. But Tim McAuliffe from SportsNet, Tim and Sid, I remember him texting me finally and being like, man, I love the hustle. Sure, I'll come on.

Because I just, I text him, or I'd send him a message, nothing to happen. I'd send him a message again. Nothing to happen. I sent it again. And I just started getting fun with it. You know, like I realize you probably don't know how I have a clue I am, but I just, you know, and finally he's just like, I appreciate the hustle.

And what you find out about really successful people is they hustled to get to where they were. They had, like, it isn't easy to be a guy, on a, you know, a top end of the line show that it's national. Like Joe Rogan hustled. Garant freaking teed if you ever get to sit or not, when I get to sit across from that guy. Like, guaranteed his story is just one big hustle.

Like he had to like just, you know, like he's still going. It feels like he goes seven days a week with comedy shows and podcasts and the UFC and everything. But, I mean, that's how he got to where he was. How do you see the difference between hustle and like, just being inspired to act. Is there a difference, or are they the same to you? No, hustle has, even as I say it, hustle has like a, not a negative connotation to it,

but kind of like a superficial, you know, like you're hustling and you're working people. Wheel in and deal in and dealing and deal and like you used car salesman. But I mean, like, if you're on your right path, like man, this is what, like when I found the podcast, as soon as I started the hustle and all I mean is putting in the hard work and just breathing life into it

and energy and everything you could see like I could visually like this is something like this might be something I can't believe this is happening like what is going on here but it was just like I hit the right spot and as soon as I hit the right spot and then not only hit the right spot

then starting to lean into who I actually am all of a sudden it just started to like build and grow and it actually started to it's fun though right for you yeah Never had this much fun in my life. Yeah, so because I get the connotation.

I still get nervous. Yeah, yeah. Let's not clear it sounds here, folks. I'm not immune to, like, talking about things that are uncomfortable, like, it sucks sometimes. But I always get the connotation with hustle as it's not fun. It's something you've got to grind through. But do you not see it differently than that? But I think the grind can be fun.

Okay. So grinds a great word. Okay. I think I look, that's exactly, I'm grinding. I'm grinding right now. I'm doing five podcasts a week. Yeah. I started with one.

And I remember thinking one was a lot. now I do five. And I told you, I'm like, this is going to have to wait a couple days because I'm like, I already have recorded. And I'm like, how did I get here? Like, I don't know. And somebody asked me the other day, he's still having fun. I almost kind of like, you're doing a lot of you.

You're telling fun? I'm like, oh, do I look like I'm not having fun? Oh, I'm having fun. I just never thought I could ever be this busy. I didn't realize that ever. I thought I'd, I don't know, I don't know what I thought the grind would look like after you hit the, you're doing a full-time podcast. I thought maybe I'd have my feet up on the chair, you know?

Graham will walk in. All right. Hey, sit out. Sit out. Let's have a beverage and sit here and again. Somebody doing it. But you see it. It's like the grind never stops.

And the grind to me is once you know what you're grinding for, man, that's a lot of fun. I mean, working in the oil field is grinding. Yeah. Rising to the top of a corporation is grinding. So I would, so my distinction would be that grinding to me that word or hustle, not even hustle, because I think it was differently, but grinding to me is like, you know, you're grinding down a rock and you're kind of breaking it apart. So to me, the word grind is like

you're doing something that's grating your soul and it's breaking you down and it's kind of beating you up. Isn't that funny how a different word? That's why I wanted to ask you about that because I'm like... In a hockey team, you've got to have a grind line.

They got to go wear down the opponent and it is like blue collar as it gets. It's not the goal. You're not the goal score. You're the grind line. You go pound. But without that line, you don't win championships.

And so I look at the grind line like this is really, really important. Oh. Now how about and does that same sort of metaphor or idea of the grind line translate to your work and your podcasting? Well I wear multiple hats so I get to be I don't know if I'm ever Connor McDavid but I like to think that sitting here today that I'm

doing okay. Yeah. And yet when I go into things I know nothing about I got to grind and I got to work on it and I got to find things and I got to do things that are uncomfortable that I don't want to do that aren't that much fun and I got to grind at it. I don't love sending 50 million emails. Oh, I see what you're saying. That can be a grind. Yeah.

But that's, without, actually, to take the hockey analogy, without me grinding out the emails, then I don't get Graham or Brett or Premier Smith. You can grind me down to be on this show, though. Did you? Some people are easier.

You know, some people are easier in others. I'm pretty sure I just said yes, didn't I? Didn't I say? I think so. Yeah. Some people are easier. It's funny, but it still work, right? Having to send a message, it's like, it can be uncomfortable.

I'm not uncomfortable with sending a message, but some people are. Yeah, totally. So the one of the things that, this is why I just want to share my experience is one of the things I've learned in terms of grinding or doing things that are uncomfortable or not necessarily what I want to be doing, like sending emails or figuring out technical things with cameras. I tell you what, the best thing of today, this conversation is been amazing. but the cameras that they haven't shut off, and I think Graham figured it out from me. I'm like, oh my God, maybe this is why I had to wait. You know, you had to injure your ankle in my world.

I go, like, because I just had the issue with the camera and it's really ticking me off. It's not ticking me off today, folks. Yeah, there was a heat setting. If anyone has Sony cameras out there, there's an overheat setting, you can change it from normal to high. I had the same problem with my cameras. So anyways, but whether it be technical issues,

reading manuals, going online, one of my worst things that I really, do not like doing is going through technical support through an online chat website for some company because their service isn't working the way I want it. I need it to be working. It to me just feels like you're slowing me down. I need to be creating stuff and now I'm waiting for this chat bot thing to tell me that I want to talk to a human. Right. So that grinds me down. However, what I wanted to share was I think like you said, it is important to which I think many people understand it as hustle or grind or do the things that are difficult because that's a part of it. You're not just going to show up

me like, I want to start a podcast and everyone else does the hard work for you. It's a part of this process of owning your new path and it's tough. It's like the sprints, you know, in practice for your sport team or whatever. They're not fun, but it's that building of that foundation. And I think when it comes to your career or your passion or your work and stuff, what I have learned and what I am kind of working on now is like, there are going to be things that I don't enjoy doing, but I need to know how they're done so that when I hire somebody in the future to do these things,

I can fully appreciate what they're doing for me, and I don't ever take it for granted. And I don't ever let it get away from me. Like Michael Singer in his book, The Surrender Experiment, he talks about how he started WebMD, the website, and he gets in the book, he gets sued and all these people come after him saying that he's doing all this money shenanigans and embezzling stuff, and he never did that.

And I've heard stories like this where the business gets away from them, and they don't see all the things going on behind the scenes. And I'm not saying that this is what Michael Singer did as not appreciating the people that worked for him. But the way I see it is when I can appreciate and see someone and really value their contribution to doing that grind of writing emails or doing the technical camera stuff, then I feel, and the experience has been true for me so far,

that those people can feel that and they want to do their best work and then we can kind of like build this thing together and there's still grinds, there's still challenges, but they're different then. They're different.

And that's what I'm looking for is I think Tony Robbins says this better quality problems. I know I'm never going to have problems. I'm going to die and then I'm going to have no problems because I'm dead. Yeah, you're always going to have problems.

All I want is better quality ones. So the ones that are in front of me right now I want to work on them, honor them, love them, appreciate them, because they're teaching me something. I need to grow in some way. I need to learn how to lead people.

I need to learn how to build system and inform them about how this is what we're working towards. Oh, they don't understand it. Okay, I need to work on my communication. It's like Tony Robbins says, he says the chokehold on any business is you. It's you. You have to take responsibility.

You have to bear that cross. You have to step up and say, okay, so it's me that's causing these problems. There's something here that I need to do, whether it be letting somebody go, whether it be hiring somebody new or building a system. or acknowledging, hey, I don't have a clear communication of where we're going and people are lost and they're just kind of floundering around.

So I wanted to make, I wanted to kind of dive into that idea of hustle and grind because. So what do you call hustle and grind then? Hmm. I just, it's to me, it's like, I don't even, I guess I don't have a word for it as much as I'm just like, I love it so much. I just do it. Like, it's like, it's just needs to be done. Like, it's like, it's, yeah, I don't, I don't, I guess I don't, I don't, I guess I don't, I don't, I don't, I guess I don't, have a word for it. I think the reason I don't use those words is because I've seen people who

hustle and grind, but they're not connected to their heart and they're doing it to chase an illusion of success or what someone else has sold them of being wealthy and rich and now all your happiness is going to come. So you just got to grind through it. And I'm like, yeah, there are things that you have to do that are difficult. Before you get to hustle and grind, you have to get to what is important to you, which is connecting in your mind with your heart. With your heart or with God or being And what we were talking about last night for me is one thing I've had a very direct conversation with myself is I won't let the podcast or any career take me away from my family. Yeah. I just, I can't lose that.

That's what's important to me. So by setting that terms at the very beginning, now you have a direction to start from. So when you, in my mind, grind, it's like, you know exactly why you're grinding. Yes. And I would say that if you ever grind, you were you were grinding or hustling? and it took you away from your family or was destroying your family, you would let that all go, correct?

Well, I've already done that. You already done that. The audience has seen me go work for the Western Standard. It's nothing against the Western Standard. I went and tried it. Yeah. And it was, you know, the Western Standard may laugh at this, right? They was like, I think it was like once every three weeks

I was going to Calgary. It's funny, in a young kid's life and as busy as you get in the weeks, that's actually quite a bit. It's, you know, five hours one way, so now it's two days and you go down as hard as you can, you go do the thing, and then you come all the way back, and, you know, and it's this thing. And I just went, one, I don't want to be a reporter.

And it started to feel like maybe that's what I was trying to build myself. And two, it was taking me away from where I wanted to be. I want to be right here. So I'm like, why am I doing this? And so then you just can go, well, I can stop, you know. Why were you doing that? Like, what got you to take that? Oh, it was an idea.

Like, I looked at the Western Standard and I went, I think we align on a bunch of things. And I think my podcast can help them and they can help the podcast. And honestly, I think that's what was going on. And I had a lot of people going on. This is amazing. You got to keep doing the Western Center or whatever else. But deep down, it just didn't go bang, bang, bang.

This is exactly where I want to be. And you were listening to that. Yes. And you honored that. And that's what I'm saying. When it comes to hustle and grind, the videos I've seen, the motivational speeches and stuff, I get, I get it. A lot of people need that, you know, encouragement and get out there and do hard stuff.

Totally. The problem I see is that when you replace hard stuff with the hard part of listening to your heart or tuning in or that part of you that says, like, I'm not where I want to be. And so that is really hard to listen to when it goes against everything around you. And to me, if you can get that right, all the other hard stuff in the world, it's not hard anymore. If you can get clear with yourself. can get clear with yourself. And one of my poems in my first book, I said, be honest with yourself and the rest is easy.

All fears are spiritual revelations hidden behind your efforts to control your world. Can you say that one more time? Slower. Sorry. Be honest with yourself. And the rest is easy. All fears are spiritual revelations hidden behind your efforts to control your world, control the outside world.

And so being honest with yourself is a simple process, but it's not easy. the rest is easy and so by being honest with yourself is is seeing where you're afraid of something seeing where your heart hurts seeing where you're afraid and moving into that and stepping into that with courage with faith with love and then from that a way is made for you you are shown the next step and yes it might be difficult yes there may be grinding involved or hard work or hustling but when you're right in here or as some would say

when you're right with God nothing can touch you well and the hard work is fun right? Yes yes man going out and sweating is a ton of fun

yes because and I'm like but I've done the hard work when I'm not right in here and it grinds my soul but that's I agree with so when you talk about grinding like that like grinding on a rock

or whatever right the way you put it it's like oh I think think, I think, um, weird to say this aloud, but like my last probably two years at Baker Hughes, I worked there five years with a great group of guys. So this is no slight on anyone who worked there. It was just, I was living two lives. One was this life, the podcast where I was like, this is, this is breathing such a life into me. And then I was working a job that I was very good at, worked with a great cube of human beings. I had great customers. I had great everything.

Except it was a grind. And that does tear you down. You know, I'm doing sober October right now. And somebody, you know, could you pick a better month, maybe, you know, all these different things. But I don't mean that said it, wasn't it? Yeah. I don't mean to say it's easy because, you know, like anytime you have to limit yourself on things that you enjoy, it's not easy. But on the grand scheme of things, I'm like, this is about as easy it comes.

And I've said this to a couple friends, close friends. You want hard, tell the truth to yourself. Amen, dude. For a month. Amen, and see what happens. And I'm like, that's hard. I'm like, I'm scared to, I'm scared to be like, yeah, that's what we're going to do for the month. Let's say November.

Because I'm like, think about that. Think about that, folks. Now that's a challenge. Now you're going to be honest, honest with yourself for a month. I don't even know what that looks like. But I mean, Jordan Peterson has talked lots. You want a challenge. Sit on the edge of your bed.

and see what comes up and then confront it. Is it Blaise Pascal? I could be wrong on this quote, but it's all man's troubles come from not being able to sit in a room alone with your own self, with your own thoughts, being present, being truthful, being honest, being just standing with God or listening with God, being there. Well, we've been sold a bit of a lie that that's strange.

You know, like, watch this old cowboy. And I may have told you this or some other. I've mentioned this a couple times. I've said this video by one of you lovely people about this cowboy. He's in front of a live audience, and he's got a wild horse, and he's slowly,

with talking about the Bible, just slowly breaks the horse, right? And rides it at the end, and I loved it because here's this cowboy, and he's talking like a cowboy, and he goes, I know that he's got his hands up and he goes, I know this is weird. Like, this is weird.

This is weird as it gets. It works. I don't know what to tell you, right? So we can either be like, this is weird, we're never doing it. Or I can just simply say it worked. And one of the things about being alone in your room and, you know, maybe getting down on bend and knee or praying or what have you is it's weird.

I will be the first to say it is weird. What's weird about it for you? What makes you feel like, oh, this is weird? That's a good question. Or is it other people's perception that makes it weird? I think the first thing I would say is other people's perceptions on it. Even though they don't have any knowledge of it. You don't have to go out and tell anyone about it.

So then it becomes you and yourself. And I would say there's an inner dialogue that goes, are we really doing this? Yeah, I think we are. Okay. You sure about this? Yeah, I think so. And that's weird.

And you go, like, this is strange. And yet, I go back to Don Cherry folks, you know, interviewed them on here. And I have gone back and listened to that. And to me, sometimes I'm like, why did I glaze over that? Like, why did I not ask him a second? question or fourth or fifth and hold them to it he and if you've ever read anything don chari if you've ever seen the movies the television show it happens in there and we all just don't take it for what it is

but he talks about being a used car salesman right he's out of hockey and he's like basically pressed he goes to his bedroom he gets down on bend and knee and he prays to god and he's like three weeks later he's coached and bobbyor and he says it on the podcast on like episode like i don't know what he was on folks 120 something and I go back and listen to that and I'm like, why are we so easy to glaze over something so profound?

Go to your room. You know, Peterson says clean your room. You don't want to start with something clean your own room, okay? Now that you can take that and extrapolate it as far as you want. Don Cherry, who I think everybody on this show respects the living crap out of,

the guy was something. Still is something. I wish I could get him back on. Talks about getting down on Ben and Knee and three weeks later he's coached and Bobby Orr. If that isn't telling you what to do, I don't know what is. Right?

And that's a man I really respect, grew up with him and the Rockham Socom movies being in our everyday Newman household. That was one of the greatest things on this podcast was getting to tell him that. Cool. Like, hey, man, you were part of the Newman household. On Christmas Day, we got up every morning,

open presents and watched Rockam Socom. It was amazing. And yet, him saying, I got down a bent and knee, however he said it, I prayed to God, or I can't remember how he said it. In my mind, that's how I even make it up. I've got to go back and listen to it again, folks. I'm just like, how did I glaze over that?

Why didn't I just clue into what he was saying? Why are we so quick to just go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But let's get to the hockey stories. I don't know, but I would assume or I would guess that I think when it comes to an individual's relationship to higher power, God, or the spiritual life, it's different for everyone. And I think my perspective is that it's similar to

maybe some of what we said last night, what we talked about last night is like there is an element of sacredness to your own path and you don't want it to be clouded like it's like it's like you're exploring this you're exploring your relationship with god i'm exploring my relationship with what i know to be god and it's sacred to me and for someone who is either in the beginning stages of that or you know doesn't want to explore it it's i think it's it can be it can make people feel uncomfortable um with someone else talking about it because it's like either they're not doing it the way they think it should be done or they're not doing it the way they do it or they're doing it differently so then does that mean that it's not the same

and so that's what i always try to emphasize with all the people that i speak with and when i share and even in my book i talk about god too i said this is the word i use but like we were saying last night i'm interested in in the fruit that is is bearing from this tree who you are how you show up in the world, how you listen to people, how you love people, how you create in this world. I don't care what you call that. God, the universe, that doesn't matter. It's just a name. It's just a signpost that is a sound that we make that points to something.

And if the way you show up in the world and how you conduct yourself is in a way that is respectful, loving, and breathing life into this world and supporting others, then great. Let's party. I want to learn from you. And so I think, though, that it's everyone's sacred journey to walk that path. However they see that, the exploring of the wonder and the beauty and the awe and the unknown of this spiritual world that is very difficult because it doesn't fit within a box. It's not, I can't say, look, there's the book right there. And you go, yeah, the book's right there.

We can both touch it. How you experience God and how you develop your relationship with God is different than how I do. but there are commonalities. And that's what I think is so exciting to talk about now. Like we've been sharing is like, this is a topic of conversation that has been awkward in the past, but it's becoming more and more talked about. And I think it's beautiful.

And I want to continue to have those conversations as well because I want to learn from other people like, what is it like when you pray? Is it a process of you asking? Is it a process of you listening? Is it a process of you embodying that which you want to move towards and feeling that as if it's all right? already happened and being grateful for it.

There's a book by Greg Braden. I think it's called The Power of Prayer or praying or something like that. And he talks about all the different ways of understandings of prayer. And I'm like, this is crazy. This is awesome. I want to understand what works.

Does this work? How does it work? How does it work for you? What is your experience? Can I, you know, I don't know if I asked us on it. You grew up Catholic, correct? Yes, sir. Have you read the the you know on your journey have you read the Bible again or pieces of it not yeah not not not not cover to cover I in in fairness I tried reading well I got through Genesis I think and I was like this isn't just this this I put it down after that I was like this isn't I don't know I'm missing something and so then I'd read the letter read letters of Jesus because I you know I in my thought process I went well why don't I just read a brilliant guy Jesus whether I was

What's letters of Jesus? Is that part of the book? Just in the Bible, they're highlighted and read. Oh, okay. Right? So I just started reading them because I'm like, you know, no different than like going to Gandhi or going to, you know, and once again, I was just like, let's talk, let's read some of the brilliant minds who come through the world

and see what their thoughts are. Yeah, totally. The thing was, is I was like, hmm, I'm missing something again, you know. So I tried reading Genesis, got through it. But I was just like, you know, I don't want to treat this like, I got to read however many pages are in the Bible. Because I'm like, if this is a grind in maybe one of the ways we're talking about, I'm like, I don't want that to be this process. I don't think it should be. So I tried doing the red letters of Jesus, which is just, you know, his, what he's been quoted as saying.

And yet I still miss something. I was really like, when is it's going on? I forget who suggested. let's just try to read the New Testament. I'm like, okay, I'll take the bait, and that's what I've been doing. And, man, is it just like really put some things into context? And also, I can't believe how many profound things are in that book that I'm like, I can't believe that's in the Bible.

And, you know, when you talk about the tree, I'm like, yeah, I mean, it talks, you know, like you will know a tree by the fruit of bears. You know, like, and I don't know the real. rest of the scripture folks but I mean like a a dead tree doesn't produce fruit or an evil tree doesn't produce good fruit right to me that's like oh yeah that's that makes perfect sense it's literally in the new testament and the further I go on in the New Testament every time I think I've okay this is enough I've already something new just yeah and here and here it is again and I go you know okay all right fair enough you know like the the one the one that I was just going to ask you was like

can you do you have a favorite scripture right now that you're the one I just sent, uh, so Jack's the one who edits, he's from St. Louis. He's a, a beauty of a guy. So shout out to Jack.

He's, he'll, he'll be listening to us at some point. And, um, he said, uh, you know,

I released a video on social media. I don't, this might be the first time I've ever done it. Or had a bit of a rant on the, the policy with hockey Canada and dressing rooms and everything. It just, it really strikes a chord with me because it's hockey. Hmm.

A hockey player. Like I still play, I love the game. I love everything about the sport. And I was talking back and forth to them. And I said, I don't know. I just shut my mouth, you know, whatever and talk about it on here or whatever. And he said, Jordan Peterson said, when you have something to say silence is a lie.

And I kind of laughed. And I said, well, you know what scripture says? And he says, well, what? And I said, James 417. Therefore to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it. To him, it is sin. And so, you know, I'm like, well, that's a pretty heavy burden, isn't it? you know like I just want to go along to get along

maybe nobody needs to hear my thoughts probably a few didn't need to hear my thoughts and um you know I'm not going to apologize for it because I'm frustrated I don't think this is right well the scripture's trying to tell you well you know if you if you're in this point like if you don't do anything

then to you it is sin well holy crap man that's a pretty heavy burden to put on somebody isn't it I think that's the, like, you're being able to look yourself in the mirror, you know, of like, did I not say any? That was one of the thoughts I had when the beginning of COVID. I was like, you know, when I have a family in the future, what do I want to tell my kids about this time in the world? Do I want to tell them, yeah, I didn't say anything. I didn't, you know,

I wanted to protect my social media following in my career and not ruffle any feathers and not piss anyone off. And I was like, I want to be able to look my kids in the face. I want to be look more so myself, but I also want to be able to tell my kids. But most of all, I want to be able to lay my head down at night and know I'm right with God and right with my heart and my soul that I spoke up. Was that a hard decision back then? Because I mean, the one thing about now with time, even I look back then, I'm like, oh, maybe it was an easier choice. But then I laugh and people can be like, no, we listen to you for two straight years through the middle of it. I was doing podcast once, twice a week, three times a week.

People, if I go back through that all, my kids will get to, if they ever want to, I guess we'll get to go back through my thoughts. And certainly there's lots of episodes where I say very little, but they can probably pull out a lot of what I'm thinking. It wasn't as easy as I can say, even sitting where I am now.

For you looking back on it, you know, like you had, you were an interesting case study, if I would, because like I look at you and you got tons of followers, you got a career, you got to, some would argue, a great career. You know, you got it from the outside looking in, you got everything going right.

Was it hard to speak up? Yeah. Yeah, on some respects, but I think, like I shared with you last night, the story of me kind of having this experience out of my body in a float tank, and I've shared it before on my podcast too, where I kind of, I was blessed with an experience or an insight where I recognize that this is all love. And we're all here for this experience and this journey.

And I'm very grateful for that experience because when it comes to difficult things in life, I don't fear death. I know it will be scary, but I'm not afraid of it. And so when it comes to staying in integrity with myself, I also share with you about my previous marriage and the important lesson of integrity. and how I will not sacrifice my integrity.

When it came to COVID, it was like God had prepped me, or the universe or the life had prepped me for that moment of being like, and this is the next stage. This is the next challenge. This is the next way you stand up. You've been blessed with a platform. You've been blessed with an audience that follows your work. And now it's time to stand in integrity again.

and it was not easy, but I can't think of a more sacred and beautiful experience in life than to listen to and follow whatever you want to call that, that higher power that's guiding you to do something because it is adventurous, it is scary, but it is worth it, and it pays off 10 times than what you ever thought it would be. You may lose some things in the short term, but you will realize that those things weren't actually supporting you in the path that you're going down. Those were things were needed to be shed, to be let go of. So in the moment, yeah, it was difficult.

I was afraid of, but also I chose to focus on what I was feeling in my heart and what I felt called to do. That was my priority. I was not concerned with I was prepared. I was like, if it all falls apart, it all falls apart. You come to terms with if I lose everything. When I was younger, I was playing high school football,

I love football, I loved football. And I got a concussion in my grade 12 year after my last exhibition game, and I couldn't play the entire season because it was a really bad concussion and had some ones previous. And my doctor said, if you get another one like that,

you're going to have brain damage or something along the lines of, you know, you're not going to function. Something serious, yeah. And I went, everything that I was working towards this football. I love football so much. And it's now gone.

And I have to sit on the sidelines with an injury that no one can see. So I'm just not playing. And I was a captain. And it was just like, it was just, it just wrecked me inside. But it taught me a valuable lesson about this identity, this idea of identity and the attachment of my ego of who I think I am and what I have. Football, you're talking soccer? Are you talking football?

American football. Oh, okay. Yeah, actual American football. What position you play? Defensive back, special teams. I played a little bit of quarterback. I did a little bit of receiver, but I think mostly on defense,

I was defensive back, quarterback, and then I love special teams. Love special teams. Oh my God. What was it about special teams? Well, kickoff. So you're running out full tilt down the field, and it's just this massive chaos

of trying to find the guy who has the ball and take them out. One of my favorite stories about football is on the far right side of the field, kickoff team. The ball goes down to the far left. and I run around, he starts running up the field, I run away all the way around behind him, run up behind him, catch him, grab his jersey, and I pull him backwards, back onto the field,

or back onto behind me. So I love special teams. It's just this massive chaos of everybody trying to get around each other and trying to find they get up the ball. But yeah, so football, it taught me a valuable lesson when I was injured that you have to let go and you have to give it all up. And then something better became of that because because I got concussions from football, I almost failed high school because I couldn't pass any classes because I couldn't focus in class. And then because I wasn't working out or doing anything active and because I had lost somewhat of my identity, I got really depressed. So then my doctor put me on antidepressants. So now I'm suicidal and I'm hallucinating in class and I'm just like totally checked out like I didn't feel anything.

I didn't feel sad, but I didn't feel happy. And I was just like lost. And it was from that process that I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life. And then I was failing high school. My school counselor said to me, you're going to fail. So you need to do something to get your credits up because, you know, my chemistry teacher kicked me out of that class, so I had to get enough credits to graduate. So I was like, well, what do you suggest? And they said, well, there's a video class where you can learn how to make movies with video cameras.

It's really easy. You don't have to do much and, you know, get enough credits to pass. And it was kind of like the band-aid for kids that weren't kind of doing well in school. It was like, throw them in the video class. You weren't up to snuff. Yeah. So I showed up in this video class. And it was basically like a babysitting class with like, here's a video.

camera, we take a week to learn how to turn it on. The instructor knew that it was like, this is the class for guys that, you know, aren't able to pay attention or got stuff going on at home and they're not able to focus. And so I was like, but it was from that that I was like, you know what, this is boring. I'm going to go out and make a movie. So I grabbed the video camera and I went and walked around my high school, finding other kids that were skipping class. I was like, let's make a movie. And they were like, well, I'm supposed to be in class. I don't want to be on camera. I says, we'll just cover your face. So they would, they would put their head. hands over their faces or they put their hoodies on and we'd make this movie about like you know

action movies and such it was from that that I found my passion for making movies of of my own I was on set as a kid but it was as an actor so it was from the concussion that ripped away my identity of playing football and math and physics it's now failing these classes which then led me to video and telling stories which then reawakened my uh passion it's the Chinese proverb or the Chinese farmer probably or jacca will and Yeah. Good. Good. Exactly. Exactly. And so that was my process. And so then filmmaking led me to film school and film school and then I booked Heartland and worked on that for 14 years. And so that to me, I don't remember where the question was why I was talking about all this at all. But that's the, that was the journey of recognizing that, you know, there may be things in life that we don't like the way they go. We think that they're detrimental and it's all over and our identity is all wrapped up in this. And then it's actually. actually a bigger plan at play. There's a, there's a bigger journey that's unfolding and that you may not see it in the moment, but you, by letting go and surrendering and tuning in and listening to

your heart or listening to God and praying, you will be shown the way and you will be given a path in life, a gift, a journey that you never could have imagined. I thought I was just going to play football and go to SFU and study math and physics and, you know, I don't know, build, rocket suit or something. But it's like, no, now I'm writing poetry and I'm doing a podcast, and like I made fun of poetry when I was younger. I hated poetry. I still make fun of poetry. Yeah.

I can't stand it. I can't. I think maybe it's like, you know, the radio announcers when they have that voice when they talk with like the radio news speak. Yeah. And poets have like a poet speak. Yeah. Yeah. It just grind.

It just makes me super uncomfortable. I don't know why. And I respect people because it's a very difficult thing to do. But for me, I'm just like, I want when someone shares their poetry, I'm just like, I'm just like, Like, just share it from your heart. You speak it. Like, what it means to you and share it. That's what I want to hear.

I don't want to hear a performance. We had to do poetry in college. I've had to write poetry before. In fairness, I guess the wife has one poem on the wall. You know, I forget who said this. When you're in love, you know you're in love when you write a poem for your significant other. Somebody, it was in a comedy or something. And I'm like, oh, yeah, done that.

And still sits on the wall. But I wrote a poem in whatever class that was, man, I think. thought it was terrible. And then I had to share. I was just petrified. I'm like, you want me to share? Like, I was so mad. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was, I'd written a poem about, um, a thunderstorm on the farm as a kid. Because the power's out and yet the phone would work. And I always found that fascinating, right? Landline. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, the landline would go off and you go over and you answer it and somebody neighbor, you power out there. Yeah, the power's out. It was such a, it's just, like, if you never grown up on the farm, maybe you'd never have that experience.

And so I just wrote like four lines about it. I don't know why I did. And so here I am terrified. You know, when you talk about speaking from the heart, here I am just terrified. I can't believe I'm going to, I'm going to, man, people are going to, I'm like, don't me in this. And then everyone, like, the teacher's like, wow, that's really dark. And I'm like, oh, well, I don't think it's.

And then it caused this whole, like, stir in the classroom. And we started talking about your poem. And I'm like, I don't know what the heck I just did. And I've never done it ever since because I've. I don't, I don't, you know, I'm a terrible, I don't know, I'm not, it's not that I'm not gifted. I put zero energy and effort into it. But it's funny, when you talk about speaking from the heart, I bet you people can surprise themselves when they do that.

100%. And when you read that, that little quote from the Bible there, I, to me, that is poetic. Because to me, the way I see poetry is it's a way of pointing to the truth of, I don't know, how you say it, like the laws of life or like the laws of life. for like the laws of universe, the universe are God's laws. It's like the things that are the most beautiful and are true and strong. I know there is poetry about like, oh my God, I'm so sad and look at me. Sure.

Wow. Sure. Great. Express yourself. I think that's wonderful. To me, the type of poetry and things that I like to write about are the things that are pointing to what's most beautiful or what's most interesting or challenging or true. That's what inspires me.

That's what I like. and I think it's everyone's different I get it but I think everyone can if you can feel things I think you can write poetry if you can feel things and you can write you know you can handwrite you can spell and stuff writing is work though it is you know all I mean is is like

you go back to the grind of writing you an email and you go I was pretty easy wasn't it was like actually it was not everyone's like that and I assume in poetry sometimes if you just start you might be a man And I mean just writing. Actually, I just mean this across the board. Dustin, my brother had this lovely line about biking Canada.

You know, if you just get on the bike and start pushing the pedals, you're already further down the road. You know, and you'll be amazed at where you are in a couple days, right? Very true. Just get on the pedal. Just get on the bike and start pedaling. And whatever you're thinking of doing, if you just start, you might be amazed what happened. Yes. I mean, I sometimes look at where we're sitting today.

I'm like, oh, man, this is kind of strange, you know? and going back to your athlete identity, Who am I moment in high school? One of the crazy things I think that happens with all hockey players, every last one of them, is the exact same experience.

And it might be athletes across the board and maybe some are better equipped to deal with it than others, but I know when I came back from Finland and hockey was over and I had to get a career, what was paralyzing wasn't the end of hockey, although maybe that was part of it, what was paralyzing is I could do anything

and anything is like overwhelming. You're like, I can do anything. What do I want to do? Like, all I've done is I'm a hockey guy. I play hockey. You know? He's like, and it's funny. When I started this podcast right at the start,

I had a few teammates that I hadn't talked to in a long time, reach out. And they were, I would use the word depressed. They were just like lost, you know? What do I do? All my life I've been a hockey player. This is what I do. I play hockey. And yet, you know, like for me, I got offered to like scout for a couple teams.

I just didn't enjoy it. You know, do you want to go into coaching? Not really, you know, and it's funny. Kids have really awakened the coaching bug in me, right? I like being on the ice with little kids. They're so much fun. But there's, you know, there's a way to stay in the game, but it's never the same as playing.

There's nothing that equates to playing. You'd know that as much. You could have become a football coach. That doesn't mean you get to. I did coach a bit, yeah. Doesn't mean you get to race down and tackle some guy in the chaos and everything else. Nothing replaces that part of it. Or I don't think it does.

You know, a coach or two will probably text me and tell me different. Yeah, I don't think anything will replace it. But I think that's a part of life, the chapters that we go through. And that's what makes them also special, too, knowing that you can't go backwards. It's like, this is sacred. You know, you will never be at this moment in your podcast ever again. After Jordan Peterson, it's going to be a completely different podcast. You know, you're going to, that's a be a new chapter of it.

So it's like when you're playing, when you're coaching, when your kids are young, like you were saying earlier about like this moment with your kids playing piano, encouraging themselves. It's like, this is sacred. This is a beautiful moment. You're never going to have that again. And sometimes it can be easy to forget through the grind or the different things that are difficult that you're going through the sacredness of this moment and what we're going through. But then when you can pause and take a break and tune in and then you can go, oh, wow, this is beautiful. This is a once, I know this chapter of my life is one of the things I think about. I'm like, I know this chapter of my life.

It's not going to be forever. I'm loving it. I know it's not going to be forever. So in the times that are tough or that are challenging, I go, it ain't going to last forever, man. So like, don't be distracted and just kind of like let it pass you by, you know, stay on the wave of life. Keep surfing it.

Keep active. Keep connected. Yeah. Well, before I let you out of the studio, you know, we'll slide into the crude master final question. I've, um, I've toyed and played and everything else with, with this one.

Uh, but it was, I've had the, crude, I don't, I don't know how to ever repay the kindness of crude master family, uh, ran company here in Lloyd, who,

uh, you know, in the dark days of COVID could have easily backed away from me, you know, and instead they defended me and everything else. It's like, how do you ever repay that? I don't know.

Talking about it, I guess, trying to, um, remind people that. And certainly there's other companies, not just crewed master, but the crewmaster final question. I'm kind of curious, you know, like, where are you heading in the future? What's got you lit up right now?

And if there was a way, how can people support it? Or be involved in it or, you know, encourage it. I don't know the right word. So where am I headed is the question? Like where am I headed and how can people join that journey kind of thing? Well, let's just go where are you headed? What's got you lit up? What's got me lit up?

Oh, man, like our conversation last night and, today is what lights me up. It's it's talking about and moving into the things that are hard to talk about, the things that are unseen, the things that are like, okay, what's one thing that's really hard to talk about that Graham doesn't like talking about? It's being present with suffering. I think there's a lot of suffering right now in the world and it's hard to be there with it. You know, you just want people to not suffer. And I think, I think, you know, if your child is going through a hard time and a hard day, and you just want to take that pain away from them. And you don't want them to suffer, you don't want them to be in pain, but you know that some pain is necessary.

And they have to grow through it, and that tough love of being supportive and being there for someone when they're suffering. It's much easier to get angry and to lash out. And I think that's it's it's difficult to talk about because it's difficult to move into because it's it's a challenge in the heart to be have compassion and to sit with that pain. Whether it be in your personal life, whether it be with this a loved one with events in the world, you know, with a family member or whatever. I think that's not only difficult to talk about but difficult to actually do. But I believe that when you're able to step into that place of tough love or of courage or of compassion and not be apathetic, I'm not saying to be apathetic. If there's something that needs to be done, it needs to be done, you need to do it.

But also not to get the emotions of your witness. of someone else suffering, get the better of you. I think is a very valuable thing right now. And I think it's not easy to, with yourself, give yourself the compassion to feel what you're feeling, whether it be pain or if you're suffering from some loss or something that you're going through. I talk about this a lot because it's been a big part of my life

when I've gone through challenging times. And it's just like the pain and the anger or the sadness or the hurt is it's burning inside it's burning my stomach it's burning my heart and to just breathe and allow that emotion to move through me by just witnessing it and it's saying i'm okay i'm not going to die from feeling my feelings it's going to move through me sometimes it takes two hours sometimes it takes 15 minutes but to be okay with going through what i'm going through and knowing that on the other side i will be free from it and And always I will learn something from it.

There will always be a growth from it. And then to practice that with others when they're suffering, that you're not trying to fix them, you're not trying to take it away from them, but you're going to hold that space to listen to them and see them and feel with them. And that's not easy because, you know, watching someone suffer,

watching someone go through pain, you want to naturally take it away from them. Now, there may be in some circumstances where, you know, they have a false belief or there's something that you can support them with. But I think the most challenging thing, is just to be present with someone when they're going through something and just to listen and to be there in an open way, in an active way, as opposed to it just, I'm waiting, I'm silent,

so that means I'm listening. I'm talking about actually feeling and being there with them through that journey. And watching them grow and move through it, I think is a beautiful gift that you can give someone and to yourself. And it's not easy. and it's one of the most beautiful things that I have been practicing for myself and trying my best to support others with as well. And I think with the challenging times in our world, that is something that I think is valuable to focus on into practice so that we remain grounded, connected to God or to love, and also open because life is not easy. Life is challenges, and there's lots of people that are suffering.

And I think that's the way we can be a light in this world and support others as we're going through this journey of life. The builder, you know, communities hold a huge spot in my, you know, like in my thoughts on how we get through some of the dark days. And being with somebody when they're going through something like that, and the easiest one for me is probably death, you know, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, you're going through something like that. And then the easiest one for me is, is probably death, you know, when, when, when, death happens, it's the most uncomfortable thing in the world to be on the other side because you don't know what to say it. Sometimes you just don't need to say anything. You just need to let them know. You just thinking about them. You just thinking about it. You need something. You just let me know. And that means the world to somebody and just by letting them know that you're,

you see them, you know. I got you, man. I'm right here besides you. You need anything. You just let me know. That's community building. And we need more of that in the world, not less. I don't think we can ever get to a point where there's too much of that, right? Like, is there such a thing? I don't think so. Yeah, exactly. Like what a crazy thing. Oh, no, we got too much community building today.

I got reached out to 17 times and that was a little too much. Yeah, I don't like that at all. Yeah, and I think by practicing that for ourselves, we can learn to embody that and practice that for others in a much deeper way too. I think sometimes we can go, oh, well, I'm going to be there for other people, but I'm not going to be there for myself, you know? Yeah. And I think it's both because the more you can be there for yourself, the more authentically

and genuinely you can be there for others. Well, and for men, putting strong men around you is you almost kind of mentor each other, whether you know what you're doing or not, whether, you know, but like I was telling this last night with the book club. Like, one of the things I've been able to learn a ton off of is that group of men on how they deal with different situations, what worked, what didn't. You know, you get into someone losing a loved one or what have you and getting over this hurdle. like I'm I can't be the only one that's like super uncomfortable to like call someone up when there are you can tell they're emotional and you want to take it away or you want to make them laugh or you want to you know and you go I just want to get you know like I just you know we lost a home on lost a and I should say a larger area lost a community member in Rod Bhutan and I just heard you know that Shep is in pallet of care too you know and so like those are two community people and I hope I've been learning this correct. If you think about it and you think it's needed, just go do. Don't wait for somebody else, you know, like if you're thinking about it,

they're not going to be upset. They might be tired. They might tell you, you know, I'm just not ready. That's okay, you know, but if you feel the poll to like, maybe I should reach out, like, you know, like, I'm thinking about it. I'm, I want to let them know. I'm just thinking about you, right? And social media is great.

I'm not saying you can't just do it through there too, but I'm in a physical hug. Yeah. is maybe one of the greatest things on this planet, a phone call. You know, there's probably a few other things. You know, I, when we, when we, one of the things I loved about having kids is people bring us over food, right? They're like, well, they need to eat. They're so busy.

It's just food. And you're like, you know, like, part of me, like, this is, you know, the man side of it. It's like, this is awesome. You know, like, I'm getting such great food and people care. And you're like, it's a really big community thing. It's just a community thing. Yeah. And it's just being a part of.

other people's lives, treating others how you want to be treated. And that gets reciprocal. And then you're modeling it for other people. And they get to witness it and they go, man, I want to do that. I can do that. And if we all start doing that, you know, you talk about love. It's like, boom, there we go. Lights of fire and it just spreads.

And it's a, yeah, man, it's a beautiful thing. I love that. Well, I appreciate you coming in doing this. Yeah. And getting to meet you finally for the first time and in person and everything else. I assume this will not be the last time you come to. Yeah, I would love to be on the show. How did you say Lloyd Minster at the start?

Lloyd Minster. Lloyd Minster. Like, what's his name? Jason Statham. That's my best Jason Statham. Thank you, Sean. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for doing this.

Awesome.