Shaun Newman Podcast - #527 - Grant Abraham

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Lawyer and 20 years spent in international business. He is the author of The Battle For The Soul Of Canada where he is raising the alarm for the conservative right in Canada that reveals a paradigm shift for how to deal with the corrosive leftist agenda that is destroying our nation. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

This is Graham Wardle. Mark Friesian. This is Marty up north. This is Alex Kraner. I'm Rupa Supremania. This is Tom Longo, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Monday.

Yes, you know, is this on the side of the table? It's weird. Monday's no longer bother me. I don't know if you work in a job that you're just like, oh, it's Monday. Or are you like, Monday? Can't wait to get the week going. Maybe you didn't even stop.

I don't know. Curious. Are you one of those folks? Are you not? I'd be curious to know. Shoot me a text. What the heck? Let's start the Monday out

with a bang, shall we? What's coming up this week? I'll tell you what's coming up this week. Peter Freakin McCullough. November 9th, Legacy, Place, Red Deer, Alberta. Yes, that is Thursday. Thursday, Thursday, Thursday, can you believe Sir Peter McCullough?

That's Caneans for Truth. They're the non-profit organization consisting of Canadians who believe in honesty, integrity, and principled leadership in government. That's his Joseph Burgow, Theo Fleury, Jamie Saleh. Yeah, they're going to be on stage with none other than Peter McCullough. That one, folks, you won't want to miss.

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Commercial or oilfield locations, for more information, visit them at Hancock, Petroleum.com. His professional background is in business and law. He spent five years in the public practice of law in the last 20 years working internationally in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe combining international development strategies with social impact investment. He's also the author of The Battle for the Soul of Canada, firing the forge. I'm talking about Grant Abraham. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast today.

I'm joined by Grant Abraham. So, sir, thanks for hopping on. My pleasure to be here, Sean. Thank you. I'm glad we finally got it organized. Well, it has been a little bit of a juggle, hasn't it? It has. You know, your name started popping up, and I tell listeners this all the time.

I got this little thing, and it's my phone numbers and all the show notes, so people can get a hold of me when they want somebody to come on. So it started out with like, yeah, you should get Grant on. You should get Grant on. You should get Grant on. Then I check my mailbox. I got your book. Then I get reached out by every.

I'm like, okay, well, obviously Grant's saying something that needs to be. And then, you know, I'm trying to line it up so you could be across from me in studio and everything else. And, you know, as much as we try and, you know, accommodate everything. We just couldn't seem to make it align, could we? Either way, I'm happy to have you on. But now you've got to tell me the story. Who the heck is Grant? And then we'll go from there and I don't know, and your book and everything else.

Well, Grant Abraham is a guy that was born in Alberta that was raised in BC and had no real interest, really, in politics in Canada until I started watching some of the deteriorations in 2012, 2015, and then obviously in 2020. I'm a lawyer by profession. I did quite a bit of work in civil litigation, commercial kind of litigation. And then I ended up doing a lot of work internationally in terms of international development type work and then social impact investment. So I've been around the world working a lot in and out of Canada. My family lives. My parents live in the Fraser Valley and sister and stuff like that. So that's kind of where my roots are.

My mom's family were homesteaders in Saskatchewan. And yeah, so I just feel like, you know, Western Canada's home. I love the country. And then as I watched, I probably had a huge red pill for me back in about August, September of 2020, when I realized there were a lot of dots that were connecting up, that were pointing to things that were ominous for our nation. And so that kind of started my engagement into looking at the system much more closely than just realizing that there was minuscule losses happening to freedom in the preceding 10 years. And so I find myself in a place now where I'm actually a reformer, system reforming freedom fighter with a heart to.

to see Canada restored to the framework that made it so great. You got to tell me, you spent 20 years all over the place, Asia, Africa, Middle East, Eastern Europe, like, just not like one spot, you're all over the place. I'm always curious, you know, before we get into Canada and some of the troubles we've been having, you know, when you left and staring back at Canada as you're working all over the place, you know, because I've had different people leave now since 2020 and talk about, you know, staring into Canada and what they're seeing. You know, in the 20 years you were gone off and on. What did you see?

Well, I was basically here just living as a normal everyday Canadian until 2006. Then I moved to Hong Kong. We kept our property here and kept our kids coming back. I have four sons. and so it kind of felt like I was on contract living overseas part of the year. So I never really left until probably hardcore when I sold our main family home in 2012. So at that time, I started to see the erosion. I saw a Supreme Court that was an activist Supreme Court that I saw eroding principles of the charge.

and the Constitution, the Trinity Western case with the law school, the rejection for the advancement of the law school within Trinity Western University was a big issue after essentially the same case had been fought over the teachers college a few years before. There were these incremental things like the presumption of innocence constantly being deteriorated or things like you're guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent in relation to traffic tickets. These kinds of things are an erosion from the presumption of innocence that built our country. And they were moving along in their philosophical shift before Justin Trudeau came in in 2015. So, yeah, I'm an anomaly because I've actually come back to Canada for this fight.

which is um i just had on uh she envidiata and she's uh from tronel or that area and she had left to costa rica in the middle of uh lockdowns because she just couldn't see anywhere around some of the things they were doing and so she left and she was just talking about that being called back into the fight and and uh and talking actively about coming back to can i know drew weather has another one here in alberta who's who's talked about uh you know coming back and i don't know not re-engaging, that's poor because they've been, they've both been doing it in their own way, right? Both have podcasts and shows where they interview and talk to different people.

What is it about, you know, for me, I'm a young father, and up until 2015, it might even be after that, folks, I don't know how much I paid attention to politics. Like, when I say zero, pretty close to zero. And so when you say, you know, 2012 was a big year. You've mentioned it twice now. I go, okay, 2012 was the first. year I came back from I came back from Finland in that year and I was more worried about, you know,

how I was going to get my girlfriend who's now my wife to Canada and, you know, and trying to set up a life and set down roots for the first time in my life and all these different things. So when you rewind back to 2012 grant, what were, you, you've mentioned a bunch of these things, but walk me through it just a smidge slower because you, you rattle off like Trinity College and a couple things and I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. well okay um well some of the things that i mentioned there were were an activist supreme court where we're seeing the supreme court interpret an agenda across a number of cases that uh ran really counter to what i think the drafters of the constitution and charter of rights

were talking about uh and when i say activists i mean that they were picking up a political agenda in shaping the interpretation of law so that they could shift our country left. And without going into illegal treaties on a whole whack of those cases, that's been a trend for quite a while beyond 2012. The Trinity Western University case, I can't remember exactly when that was. Back in the late 90s, the BC teachers, Union or Federation tried to block Trinity Western running the professional development program and said that they shouldn't be able to do that because they had a Christian ethos or framework

to their their the philosophical roots, if you will, of the university. And they went to the Supreme Court arguing that that, you know, basically that they should be allowed to because of the freedom of thought, religion, and belief. And they won. And the Supreme Court made that decision, and Trinity got to run its teachers program. Well, Trinity, I think it was probably in the mid, somewhere in there.

Let me just think. Maybe late teens, 15, 16, 17, had the same issue with a law school. And I may be out on my dates, but it's easy to find it if you want to look, it up. And they basically had the same discussion going. And the Supreme Court came back and said, you know, in light of the opposition of some of the law societies, Trinity should not be able to produce lawyers that would be eligible to enter into the different law societies because of their

Christian faith. Because it didn't, whatever the logic was, I think it was because they didn't represent the broad understanding of Canadian society. It was too minuscule a focus. And that's a, that's a gross representation of probably what the judgment was, but I'm just jumping into my best recollection. So, but that was a departure from the kind of understanding or ethos that had happened in that earlier case. So that, that's an, that's an indicator of this kind of creeping shift. And then probably after Justin Trudeau came in in 2015, I was kind of living overseas and I kind of was watching what was going on kind of with a kind of a disdain at the direction for the country,

but not ever thinking that it would become as severe as it has become, especially when I started to hear comments like Canada shall be a post-nation state or COVID has provided Canada with an opportunity for a reset. And when I started hearing those comments, that really started to concern me because one of the places that I lived was in the UK. And I saw what was happening with Brexit. And I saw why the British people left the European Union. And I knew from some graduate work that I've done that a post-nation state is a massive shift in. our understanding of how our nation works and it's a shift away from the the our

understanding of the sovereign kind of people or our own protection of our borders and our money and our people and so my the flags yellow and red flags really went up in the when I started here hearing Justin Trudeau talk about a good a post-nation state being being set up in Canada which I think he said in 2018. And so these things have been coming out. But I don't think Canadians really realized what that even meant. I 100% can sit here and go,

what percentage of Canadians realized what that meant? Well, I mean, that's really a discussion. And if we want to pause there, Sean, I'm not sure whether your listeners would like a boring kind of explanation about what post-nation state means. but I'm happy to pause and have a chat about that if you want to go there. Well, here's the thing. As far as I'm concerned, I'm interested and you're telling me things and I'm going,

okay, well, we got to talk about post-Nation state because one of the things, there could be a huge percentage that understand. They're not going to be for the two, three minutes, five minutes it takes. If we're going to talk for an hour, Grant, we might as well let the average listener know what you're talking about because there's going to be a lot of us that just are running as hard as we can go sitting in a truck somewhere, driving along going, something's wrong. What is wrong?

I've heard these things, but I don't fully understand. So why don't we tell them a little bit about it? Well, let's do that. So United Kingdom's a great place to have this conversation. United Kingdom joined the European community back in 1971 or 72. And that was a good idea because it was joining a kind of a trade pact that gave them removed barriers. for trade it was a good idea but as the european union evolved it became another level of government

um so at some point in the 90s uh the uk started electing european members of parliament alongside the normal members of parliament and they would go and sit in brussels and they would make laws or contribute to the making of laws that would impact all the member states that were in the european union and what happened was that laws were being made that impacted the country of the United Kingdom and started affecting their sense of culture, their sense of who they were as a people. It started to impact their ability to control their borders and their money. And there was a growing unrest within the UK about a sense of almost having their nation diluted and dissolved. And that gave rise, led really, in some ways, by Nigel Farage and then by Boris Johnson as well,

about this referendum to move to a Brexit vote where the United Kingdom would leave this extra level of government that was above the houses of parliament in the United Kingdom. And so what was happening was that British people were being told by people in Brussels, you know, what days they could go shopping or how loud their lawnmores could be or a host of other things that was actually impacting their sense of who they were as a people. And so the British people decided to have a vote and they voted to leave the European Union. And there was massive shock within the European Union in this because there is a belief within this collective concept of, global governance that if you go bigger,

a higher, a higher level of governance that it's actually better. And, you know, there's better thinking at those levels. But that was a rejection by the British people of this collectivist thought. Okay. Now, that sounds pretty academic, but let's bring it home to a Canadian context. Actually, I don't know. Just so my brain's clipping along at the same pace here, Grant. When you talk Brussels, that's across the pond from Britain.

for people who want to jump on a map quick and take a look where they're where they're looking. So it's kind of like taking our marching orders here in Canada from, I don't know, the UK. And or in Alberta, it kind of feels like it when you take it from Ottawa because they're so far apart. But this is a completely different country is what you're talking about, European Union telling the Brits what they can and cannot do, roughly. Yeah, I think that's the starting point in terms of what it really means. I want to do is bring it home for you in relation to even people listening to this podcast and kind of sitting thinking, yeah, there's something wrong with our country. What are some of

the root systems of why we're feeling that we've lost our country? Like, where is our country gone? And that's a question that a lot of Canadians are asking, right? And I think that this is part of this discussion, this post-nation statehood, which is what trust Justin Trudeau is advancing. And just as a sidebar here, this is another little rabbit trail for us in this conversation. that I think is important, is that Justin Trudeau is advancing that, but the loyal opposition, the Conservative Party, is actually absent to this discussion. And this is the biggest groundswell shift in terms of what we understand as a people to be our nation about. And so there's an interesting little discussion in there about what the liberals are doing

and what the Conservative Party of Canada is not doing. But to maybe just finish that what is a post-examination, nation state. A post-nation state is where decisions are made for us in places and by people whom we don't elect and we don't know. And so as Canadians, we understand if you want to think about it this way, every single voter, our groups of voters or communities have like a chain, like a metal chain that's connected from them to whoever it is that they elect. And if those voters get upset, they jerk that chain and that force goes through the chain and someone at the other end gets the recoil from the vibration of that chain. And if there's enough people that do that,

there's change that happens because obviously there's unrest or dissatisfaction with whatever is going on. When you move to a post-nation state, that chain is so long that it doesn't matter how hard you jerk it or how many people jerk on it, there won't be a reverberation at the other end that anybody feels or anybody cares to care about because they're not aware. The UN, the WHO, the wef, and you got a pretty good idea of what you're talking about. That's what I'm talking about. So when you say, you know, we're talking about our sovereignty as a people being uploaded to other decision makers that we don't elect, that's going on right now.

that's what Post Nation State meant in 2018. Now we're drinking that cup and waking up and saying, when do we get sold out? And it is a selling out. Okay. Well, you've given me a stiff cup of whatever that is. And now I'm looking for a grant to go, but here, here's what you do, Canadians,

because I'm sure you've got some thoughts on it. I mean, geez, you know, when the conservative, I was just saying this last week, You know, it's the conservative side of the coin is hurting so much for a conservative politician that all he had to do is eat an apple. And we all were like, this is the greatest thing ever. Oh my God.

Meanwhile, one million march for children. Tell your MPs not to say a word. And you're like, but this is a bunch of parents across all spectrum saying we just don't want this for our children. It's kind of interesting or shocking or whatever word do you want to attach to it. But Grant, I'm jumping ahead of myself. here. What do you think? I think that that is the most important conversation in our nation right now.

And the most recent indicator of this issue are the issues that you've just identified. And there are many, many more. Like why haven't the Conservative Party been talking about what a post-nation state means? Why haven't they been talking about what a reset means? You know, Trudeau said COVID's provided an opportunity for a reset. Why did the Conservative Party not pick up on David McGinty's report on YouTube in 2020? We have a liberal MP who went on YouTube in 2019 with a report from the security committee of the government. And I may have named that committee wrong, but forgive me for that. But if you look it up, David McGinty, I watched it in sometime in 2020, early 2020.

And he actually went on YouTube and gave highlights of the report that basically said, there's rampant foreign interference. We need to up our game. It is desperate. You know, we're compromising this and that and everything else. Like it was a really stark warning. And he put it on YouTube. But our loyal opposition didn't say a word about it.

And it only came out in, you know, this year in terms of some of the election interference. But there was like three years to make hay with that. Why weren't they doing that? You know, there's a lot of issues here to discuss in this space about what isn't being said. Or even, you know, it's perhaps a more probative conversation for us to even discuss this from the perspective of those people that are a subset of the conservative party. When you talk about the social conservatives and the Christian right, like do Canadians really believe that a little bit more money in our pockets is going to make us more free,

is going to fix these problems in our nation? And that's the mantra right now of Pierre Paulyev and the Conservative Party. Well, we'll put more money in your pocket and you'll be more free. And it's just like we're, you know, it's just like we're panting dogs. Okay, more money, we're more free. things are going to be good. But you know what? We've had legislation passed unanimously by the Conservative Party that basically will have parents going to jail if they pray for or counsel their children in a decision about changing their sex. So you can go to jail for five years

under Bill C4. Under Bill C4, I mean, this is astonishing to me. Under Bill C4 as a father or a mother, if you decide to take your kid to counseling or pray for them or have them talk to a priest or a pastor or a rabbi about changing their sex and having another person or even the parents engage in this discussion. But I mean, under the current sentencing rules, you can sexually molest a child and kind of get less than three years. But five years because you actually care as a parent. I care as a parent what sex my child thinks they are. the conservatives did that so a lot of people whether they're a muslim or jew or christian or seek in this country care about that as well and yet we listen to this mantra more money in our

pocket makes us more free but we're not having the real conversations about how this country's being pulled down the toilet in terms of this value degradation can i throw something at you yeah anything well because i've been i've been staring at the same thing right i go you know like why why that seems why and you know here in Alberta we got to see the rise of Daniel Smith now does she have her her blemishes sure who doesn't in politics at this point but overall what she did uh was a really unique thing although I think in today's age it just has to be called out for what it is she didn't go to the legacy media corporate media whatever you want to call it mainstream I don't give a shit anymore because it's not mainstream

anymore. It's the legacy media. It's sitting there and everybody can see that it's dying. And so she went around to podcasts such as myself and I'm not giving myself a pat on the back. She did this with a ton of Alberta podcast and she went around and talked to all these different communities. She did these tours and she just went and talked to people. And, you know, she won the hearts of a lot of people. And wouldn't she know it? There's some pretty go getters on that side of things. And they pushed and they pushed and they pushed. And she gets 51%. And then, you know, CBC and everybody comes out and just hammers her because she only won by so many percent whatever else you're like okay whatever the fact that it's monumental that a woman who crossed the floor not that long before

and all the people who hated her still voted her in like it's a wild story so i fast forward to the federal side of things and i look at it and i go i think they're just maybe i'm wrong i'm sure there's more than a far as and this is i'm just throwing things out there grant and you can just swat them away and and and tell me i'm a moron i'm totally cool with it but i look at it and i go i feel like we put too much emphasis on media because one thing the liberals have is they have the media in their back pocket like i mean when it comes to mainstream media they just they just do i mean you can sit there and fight it all you want folks but at the end of the day we've seen it crystal clear at this point and so to me what conservatives do is they play this strategy game of like if we just don't

rock the boat too much we'll get these votes and we'll do this and whatever except now there's so much information going so fast if they just embrace what is conservative and come and support everybody they would win in an absolute freaking landslide and they haven't figured it out and i can't figure it out we i was talking to chris sims from the alberta taxpayer federation and she's going like you know like cbc at news hour gets one or dinner hour gets one percent of all of canada to me like there's no reason to be afraid of it anymore everybody sees it for what it is embrace the alternative media go talk to them start talking openly like we are and holy crap watch the absolute ground swell of people

that come running because that's all people want right now. They just want, can we just say, call out the WF and just be like, we don't want anything for that? And you just keep calling it out. Can we say that the UN, maybe there's some things of these unelected officials we don't want. The WHO signing on some of the next pandemic, we do what we just did that crippled our economy and everybody literally led to the biggest protest in Canadian history, right?

Like, I mean, it's not that, but to me, everybody's worried about calling out the LGBTQ2SLI8 plus community because of the attacks they face and being canceled and all these things. But they just embrace it. Everybody will protect them. And all the media like us will come and talk to them and it'll be great. Instead, we're holding on to this dying, whatever it is of the CBC and traditional media that is dying. It's literally dying right in front of our eyes.

And instead of them just going, oh, okay, we don't need to do this anymore. And winning in a landslide, they keep holding on to this. Or am I a moron? and there's way more nefarious stuff going on. Well, I don't think you're a moron because I think you're leading us into incredibly relevant conversations about what is going on beneath the veneer of what Canadians are being told. And I think that's exactly what I'm saying by we are, it looks to me when I look across the landscape of Canadians and conservatives in particular, they kind of have this perspective,

well, if, you know, we can't do anything else because anything's got to be better than the liberal party and what they're doing to the country. But when you look at all these issues, foreign interference, Canada being reset, this issue of, you know, post-nation state, the issue of the comments by Pierre Paulyev about Christine Anderson as kind of a vile, hateful person. You know, when, you know, 53 points or 53% of Canadians still identify with the Christian faith, how you get all of these dots. And at some point, all these dots connect up to there's a problem with the actual agenda of the infrastructure of that party. So I think that there are some good people within the conservative party. But I think the conservative party is steering the country left only slightly slow.

than the liberal party. And so I asked the question in my book, if we get rid of, if we get rid of the man, do we get rid of the plan? I'm meaning Justin Trudeau. And the answer is basically no, I don't think that we do

because everything about the behavior of the conservative party is basically going in the same direction as the liberals are and they're sure not digging their heels in or resisting it. And so, yes, I think that Leslyn Lewis has said some things,

but I think that the more I see about how she's responded to within the party. And I admire her spunk for engaging those issues. But I think she's just kept there as a moniker to placate the social conservatives inside the conservative party. They're still going left. We don't hear opposition to these ground sweeping changes that are making us all go, where is our country going? Why do we feel like we want our country back?

And so it's actually the loyal opposition. job to actually challenge those issues, but we're in a place of omission on those challenges, right? And I think that that's kind of why I ended up writing the book, because I'm like, people, please look at this whole body of evidence of all these things that aren't happening. Whether you're just a fiscal conservative or a conservative, a social conservative, there are real problems with the fact, with all the problems and conversations that we're not talking. about. And so that's why these conversations about apples, you know, bring it home and all that is so shallow. And I don't believe that Canadians are that shallow. And yet we're buying into

this fact of a little bit more money in your pocket and you'll be more free. Being more free doesn't deal with these with these issues of, you know, in Calgary these, there were two people arrested going as I understand it. Going on the sea train to the million months of March because they were talking about the personal, a private conversation on the bus that someone felt uncomfortable with reported them. They were talking about how they felt about homosexuality as a personal conversation between two people on the bus and they felt, someone felt that that was offensive to them. They reported and these two people were arrested. Now, that is mind-blowing. Like, we are into a tyrannical state, if that's the case. So when, at some point, when this progression

of these little compromises in terms of freedom of speech or freedom of thought and belief are undermined to that degree, that will come to our everybody's door at some point where there'll be a line cross. And so when I look at this, I see a major need for discussion about core values like freedom of religion, the primacy of parental authority, the protection of the innocence of our children. We do not want the innocence of our children taken or, or undermined and we sure don't want pedophilia normalized right like these are huge issues

but where is that conversation happening in in anywhere forget the 1% it's where is it even into being talked about the conservative party had an entire policy forum a few weeks ago and people went down to Quebec and they put all their policies in and they fought about them and argued about them and they passed whatever and some of them were to validate you know the central of the family or whatever the language was. What did Paul E.F. say at the end of this, there's no guarantee that any of these will make

it into a platform for an election. So really, what is the point? So this is, this is the biggest conversation in our country, in my view. How do we actually get in and auger into these agonizing, gnawing issues that we know are going wildly wrong in the country. They touch hearth and home, our understanding about the root infrastructure of what Canada is about. It's about home and hearse and family and grandparents

and having your kids grow up and passing your wealth to them. And, you know, having a society where people feel secure and they're prosperous and you can think what you want. You can go and worship if you want. Now you can't even have conversations on a bus.

You know, you talk about normalizing pedophilia And I laughed and it's not because I think it's funny. I just think, man, like, how did we get here? You know, like where that's the conversation and there's even a remote argument about it? I can't imagine a single one of my listeners. I cannot imagine one of them would argue for pedophilia. I almost 100% would say all of them will go, no, that's a crazy thought. And yet, somewhere in society that is slightly being pushed, maybe even more than slightly.

It is being pushed. It's absolutely being pushed. We have drag queens reading pornographic material in school libraries that school boards won't even allow to be read in public in the in the board meetings. It's not it's not just subtly being pushed. It's happening and if we if we can't draw a line to protect our children from pedophilia, we don't we don't deserve the country. So unless we're actually having these conversations in our political forum, we don't we don't deserve the country. We don't we don't deserve the country. So unless we're actually having these conversations. We are recklessly negligent in terms of stewarding the future of this nation. Because if we can't protect our kids because we're so busy watching Netflix or going to Costco or whatever it is we do and have these real conversations, maybe we deserve what we get. And so that's why everybody really needs to wake up and create and think about a different response in our political form because the Conservative Party is not having these conversations for us.

And if we're so shallow to believe a little bit more money in our pockets are going to save our butts, we're lost. And the only thing a bit more money will do in our pockets is to pay for a defense lawyer whenever we get arrested for the wrong conversation or because we actually decide to engage in a discussion when our child decides they're going to change their gender. Yeah. Get arrested for wrong think or double speak. So, yeah, so this is where I, my, my hearts cry, if you is, why I'm having these conversations, why I wrote this book, is to say we really need to think deeper about this. You asked the question, what, where has this come from and why aren't we, why aren't we able

to deal with it? Well, the answer to that question is probably the most important question that you and I can talk about today is, is that we've drifted away from the moorings, the values framework that built this country. And the value framework that built this country is the, excuse me, the Judeo-Christian civic moral order. And, you know, Canadians can easily say, oh, you know, I don't know about secular and sacred and I don't know if we need to talk about.

But this is simple stuff. You know, we respect each other's property. We respect relationships of other people. We protect our kids. It's wrong to kill. It's wrong to lie. It's wrong to bring false evidence in court. It's wrong to do all these things.

And that there is a God that is supreme, just as our Constitution pays homage to. And that these rules are rooted in that system. And I always say, I wouldn't be trying to advocate for a Christian caliphate in Canada, but to say that we should depart from those norms and those values, because somehow it's linked to some notion of faith or Christian. Christianity is a very naive perspective in terms of approaching how we look at our country. Because this issue of the normalization of pedophilia or the sexualization of our children completely flies in the face of our understanding of protecting the innocent and that understanding

of a sense of parents bringing the children up in the way that they wish to raise them. And that's rooted in that Judeo-Christian civic moral order. And yet we seem to be happy to drift away from that. And I always say the thing that I love about God or the God within the Christian faith is that he gives us the right to choose. Even if you choose not to choose him, it's still freedom. It's the freedom to choose. And that is the essential epicenter of the freedom of this nation

and the framework that this nation was built upon. So we're having these problems because we're drifting away from those values that built our nation. And they happen to be rooted in a moral order that's based in the Christian faith. And until we get our heads around that, whether you adhere to that Christian faith or not, that's the chemistry of our problem. Well, it's funny you bring up, it's funny you bring up the Christian faith because it's been coming up an awful lot as the audience will chuckle and I'll probably get a few texts saying, oh my God, here we go again. But here's the truth of the matter. You know, the deeper you dig down, the more you search for what the heck is going on,

you know, the more you realize we've lost our mooring. And I couldn't have said it any better, grand. And so then it goes, okay, so what are we going to more to? What are we going to, to put down as our foundation that you can be whatever you want to be? You know, but, and and all these things that none of us believe in. And you go, that's what's being pushed. Yeah. Like, honestly, that's what being pushed, right? That we should be teaching children as young as what?

Kindergarten, that you can marry whoever you want. Okay. You can be whoever we want. Okay. You can have a sex change, whatever we want. Okay. Where does this end? Where does the, and, you know, we always come back to,

I always come back to when we get into this part of talking these discussions is in COVID. and I apologize as a listener I tell this story probably way too much but oh well here we go again is that eventually you have to get to your line and if you haven't thought about that you really should because if you can find your line

then you can see it getting approached upon and encroached upon and hit over and over and over again but if you don't have a line you just keep you know it's these spiny these tiny little cuts or as some would say the frog in boiling water whatever you prefer

and what happens is, you know, oh, it's not that big a deal. It's a book here. It's whatever. I remember in the middle of COVID, Ocean Wise Black getting arrested in Calgary on an outdoor rink. And this is me. I laughed and said, why did it have to be a guy named Ocean? I was chuckling at his name and going, it's Calgary, and they're kind of wild out there and whatever. It's not that big a deal. We had a person arrested at the indoor pool, nowhere now, Miranda.

And, you know, you go, these things, just start to happen. And if you don't draw your line, then for the rest of time, you will just get pushed and push and push. Another one was Doug Casey. I read a news article on him, not a news article, one of his articles he put out. And he was talking about pigs, whether we were smarter than pigs. And he says, well, you put, you know, and I'll butcher this story a little bit, folks, but you put corn out in the bush. And they come, and, you know, if you do that for several days, they'll just keep coming back. And then you erect one fence. And, you know, they kind of, what is that? but the cord keeps coming so they get used to the fence

and you put a second fence and you put a second fence and you put a fourth fence with a gate and they go in and you keep feed them and eventually close to the gate and they all go wild but you keep throwing them corn and eventually they just become docile and now they're caged and whatever and I'm like anybody's talking about is freedom in the west and I'm like yes that is Canada right there in a nice lovely story there it is

it's like that is what's been going on where at this point where I don't know if I found a parent that thinks teaching their kids about transgenderism in general is a good idea. And yet, it's been, you know, in the BC, it's been there six years with Soji. In Alberta, you got test pilots running. Saskatchewan just got it, you know, with everything going on, it got pushed against. But there's still content in all the schools.

We're starting to find it everywhere. And it's interesting that parents are really outraged. But the conservative party, I come back to this, literally told all their MPs don't engage with us. In Lloyd, no politician showed up. We outnumbered the protesters. Okay, on the low side, 650, on the high side, 700 to what? 10 or 15 people? That's what we're afraid of.

You're like, I just, grant, I don't understand it. Like, I mean, we're caught in this, like, loop of, like, we want to be mad at somebody, so we get, instead of just, I don't know how, I don't know how to get through to some of the thick skulls that it's okay to step out. Like, it's not as terrifying as you think. it's not and i just think uh it's that you know that this is these are they we're talking about bullies here right who have the media at their back and um we've got they well that they do in

the sense that there's this uh sense of there's this perception of fear uh or fear of the perception of what will happen in the event that you actually stand up and speak out against this And I think, you know, this is, this, it's interesting to me because people I know that maybe have been MPs within the conservative party will come up to me and say, Pierre Poliyev isn't has nothing to do with the W.EF. Sure. And you know, they'll, so they'll make the statement because obviously they perceive that that's an issue. There are other people that will say, well, what Canadians really care about is more money in their pockets. and we'll have this conversation. And really, our problems are so much deeper.

Until we start having these real conversations, and until we start realizing that we actually need a voice in this country that isn't just running, especially in Western Canada. I mean, this is linked into a lot of how we all feel in the West. Anyhow, forget all these other conversations. Whenever you link that together and just say, you know what, we are not comfortable with this, migration left, particularly as it relates to the sexualization of our children, no, we're not

going to do that. And we need a party that will actually stand up and speak that out. Well, here's another thought that'll throw it here because I'd love your thoughts on this. And I don't think it's the, I think as this goes along, it's less and less the fear of media. Although they are certainly there and they are certainly speaking out, but I think less and less Canadians are going there. Now, that's why you got the CRTC saying you have to register and all these different things coming because they're trying to control that and why wouldn't they? Fair enough. What I think is a fair fear is how many people have I had on this show or have you met Grant

that spoke up lightly? Just didn't say much and got removed from their job. And I go, that fear is real. The fear of losing a paycheck, the fear of the organization, the board year part of the control measures within the system. And you go within the conservative party, I can imagine. there is a lot of chatter about what you can and cannot say. I mean, geez, we just saw it with the $1 million marks for children.

And that's a legitimate fear, or would you disagree with that? Well, it's an absolutely, it's absolutely a huge fear. And this is part of the problem with the party system. And I sat as a vice president on one of the Conservative Party electoral district associations. And I saw very clearly that what was happening was the grassroots were trying to push their perspective up through the local boards into discussions for the MPs to have in Parliament or to shape the country. And what was happening was that those discussions were blocked at the local boards. And anything that was being discussed was pushed down from whatever ideological

Mandarin there was within the Conservative Party. And so there's this one-way traffic of communication down into the grassroots. So what is running the show in terms of and why? we're feeling so disconnected from these conversations is because there's a drift left within the conservative party for sure there is an algorithm that's obviously being set that is that holds the view that if we don't talk about these things and we do talk about these things uh these other things will will maybe win an election except that now we're losing the country we're moving towards a globalist controlled framework uh in so many areas and

people aren't happy because they're going, where is our country gone? And we've got drag queens of schools and we've got pornography in our libraries teaching kids how to masturbate at five years old or whatever. And, you know, where is the line going to be drawn? So I think this is, we all resonate. I think many Canadians resonate on these issues. And yet we're not forcing the conversation within the party. That's happening because the party has a philosophical imperative that they are shaping into their MPs and therefore the MPs are worrying about their job rather than what the grassroots people that actually elected them to their Cedar saying. A great example of this is, and I have this in my book, you'll have to forget me, forgive me for not, perhaps not

remembering the details, but there was a, there was an election in Ontario writing for a new candidate MP. The local board had found someone, I think his name was. His name was. He was a name was Garrett van Norland or Dorland or something, forgive me if I've mispronounced that. And he was being voted in. He was a pro-life candidate. So he's a social conservative that it was opposed to abortion. And as I understand it, what happened was that Pierre Pauliev came in and said, you know what, I want this candidate and went over the head of the grassroots in the local

community and put in a candidate that was pro-choice. So what happens then? Well, everyone in that writing then says, okay, next election, comes up and Pierre Pauliev's candidates there to be elected, well what's worse? Elect a liberal MP or elect a pro choice MP that's conservative? Well, I guess

we're going to go along there. And there's your moral erosion of the nation. Well, one of the, you know, and you know, as a guy who tried to get in the leadership race for the conservative party, I watched was it Emmington folks? I can't,

I can't remember. It doesn't matter. It was one of the official debates. And obviously at this point in time, the listener should understand that you were one of the folks who got to school all fight, along with Joseph Borgo, and along with one at Ontario. I'm forgetting the name right now, not that it matters. And I remember the host of the debate asking pro-choice or pro-life. All the men, pro-trice. Less than Lewis, pro-life. And immediately, the guy who's hosted these people.

before. I'm like, just ask why she's pro-life. Just like, there's one stands out. Why won't you follow that up? Oh, and moved on. And you go, you know, they said, we have to ask this question and then we're going to move on. You're not going to ask any follow-ups, which is terrible. And I mean, I forget if it was the first election I watched or the second, maybe the second, 2019, I think if memory serves me correct. Um, the PPC, love or hate them. It doesn't matter. At the time, they were, they were polling high enough to get in the, the national debate. Instead, we had the Green Party, which makes zero sense, and we had the Quebec qua, the block, which makes even more sense, less sense. And he even said in there,

I'm not running for the prime minister, so I don't really care to answer this question. I'm like, we're making a mockery of our country. Yeah. Now, you could, you could, and so I always go, like, why wouldn't they go, well, we're only going to have the top three parties? Instead, that to me is a smarter control than actually having people up there that makes, unless it's giving Quebec, they're due. And, and you guys, and you guys, you guys. got a Pat Quebec on, I don't know. But like, we've done things in this country that makes zero sense that should infuriate everyone across the board.

It makes zero sense. And I mean, you're a guy who's seen it even from the conservative party because when I read your story, it wasn't that you'd missed out on like thousands of this or hundreds of that. It was, it was like a pretty small number. And even then you'd made it, I don't know, I guess you can tell the story because you've seen the system in action. Well, I mean, you're asking the question.

Let's just comment on your comment about Leson Lewis saying she was pro-life. I was in that room in Edmonton. Where are you? May 11th, 2022. I believe it was May 11th or thereabouts. And that whole room, we never talked about any of these issues, foreign interference or Canada as a post-nation state, or any of these issues. were never discussed. Lesson Lewis, again, is able to air her pro-life voice, which is great,

but she's kept there in kind of a neutralized position, and the social conservatives within the party kind of hear that, oh, well, isn't that great, there's a pro-lifer. But there's never any policy advancement in terms of protecting the life of the unborn or the innocent, and there's a lot of people that feel quite strongly about pro-life in this country, and yet the conservative party has become a cul-de-sac. for those interests. That's a challenge.

There's never going to be a road punch through for those issues. And yet the party is relying on those votes. And so all those people, the social conservative Christian right, need to wake up and realize that these important value issues are the exact value issues that we're struggling with in our country because we're drifting from our mooring so far left that we're going to actually lose the country.

because at some point someone is going to draw a line about the police showing up to take their kids because they decided to pray for them about a sex change. You know, whatever the spark is is going to happen. And I guess for me, the other discussion then out of that conversation is what happened with the conservative party. So, I mean, I came from the grassroots. I came to engage that conversation because I was seeing that all these conversations weren't happening. And it's an open forum. and I was in the party, so why not do it?

And I certainly don't think that anybody took me seriously. I only stayed in Alberta and BC. It took me six weeks to raise or five weeks to raise the first $50,000. And it was a lot of hard work. And when I raised that $50,000, I don't think they were even going to allow me to advance because I only had 10 days to raise the next $250,000 plus. And they asked me in my interview, why should we even let you advance? I said because if you don't, you'll look like you don't think I should be allowed to participate in a democratic process.

And if you do, you'll be the, you know, the vanguard of democracy for letting a grassroots guy come into the race and actually participate. And they're like, well, okay, so go ahead. Why don't you go ahead, more or less? There were other questions as well. It wasn't just as simple as that. But you know what? In the next 10 days, that quarter of a million came in. and it came in from all over the country.

And it came in because we were talking about, I was talking about these issues that the Conservative Party didn't want to talk about. And everybody's hearts were hearing the truth spoken about and recognizing that there was actually hope for real conversations and we actually answer the question, could answer the question that you're actually asking. Why aren't we actually engaging this conversation,

these conversations? But the reality was that the party didn't want, to have that. So let me be really precise here. There were two requirements for that race. One was the requirement of signatures across the country and it's boring electoral stuff, but I had to have, I think it was 500 signatures from across 10 provinces or territories and from 30 electoral district associations. And I received a letter from the Conservative Party saying that I had completed that task and that that was verified and completed. So that was the first requirement. And the second requirement was that I, I raised $300,000 and or in excess of

$300,000. There was a very confusing little rule there that they'd like to use to make it say it's 300,000, but actually try and make it more when the rule doesn't actually substantiate their position. When I raised the money, I got a letter saying you've, as I said, you've met the requirements for the signatures, but you haven't raised the money. So I went back to them and I said, how much, how much are you, how much did you base your decision on for me not to proceed? And they wouldn't tell me. And I said, you know, I don't think you're at liberty to not tell me how much money came in because you based a decision for my campaign not to advance on, on X amount of dollars less than 300,000. How much was it? And they wouldn't tell me. And I said, look,

that's totally unacceptable. These are taxpayers' dollars donated to a to a receipt, granting entity and you're making a decision in a democratic process like you you need to cough up this number or this is going to the CRA you'll be audited so they said oh you may you you only raise 240 some thousand dollars whatever the number was i can't remember exactly and i said well that's not that's not true i know that um i know what i what i brought in and submitted to you and i know what's come in from your reports and a plus b equals more than 300 000 okay So they said, sorry, that can't be right. You're wrong.

If you want to do that, you prove it. And so I knew that it was wrong. And rather than just rushing back to them with my little notes to say, here's why I had in excess of $300,000, I took all of the documents, my receipts and theirs, to an auditor, to a forensic accountant. And I gave them the whole thing. It took them 10 days.

it actually cratered my momentum in relation to my run in the party. And I got the forensic accountants report that basically said, hey, I found the money. It's been either hidden or lost or forgotten in this general ledger within the party. That's what happened. That's documented. So when I went back to the party and I said, hey, I found your money. I'm in excess of $300,000. I'm doing a press conference.

You can choose what kind of press conference you want me to have. I will either advance, thank you for allowing me to advance, or I will explain to Canadians that the Conservative Party of Canada has either lost or misplaced or intentionally or mistakenly over $60,000. And you can explain that to Canadians and all the people that supported my campaign. and an hour before or so before the press conference

I got a letter saying I got a letter from them saying oh yes oh we do see the money but now we see that your signatures are short even though they'd been verified now that's where that story ended I had people

coming phoning me from all across Canada you need to sue the party blah blah blah that wasn't where my heart was or how I think that democracy advances necessarily in the country and it would have been irrelevant anyways. The interesting thing like that was May of 2022. What was very interesting was that this year when it came around to tax season in 2023 for 2022, I started getting calls from people, calls and emails from people across Canada

saying, where is my receipt for my donation to the party? And I said, I don't know. All of those donations go to the party. party. They're the ones that receipt it. And the people would say to me, well, the party has said that you have the receipts because you got the money. And I'm like, that's absolutely ludicrous. You need to go back to them, ask them for the receipt. If you donated the money, they're the ones that issue the receipt and tell them that if they don't issue the receipt, you're going to Revenue Canada, CRA for an audit. Because you can't receive money and not receipt it, right?

with what a charity is or the receipt granting status within an election election model. And it was very interesting what happened because the first call that I got, the person went and did that with the party. And they phoned me back and they said, oh, you know what happened? It was put in a file. And they never actually processed it.

So it was never received by them. It never was calculated. into your total intake of funds because it wasn't actually negotiated. And therefore, it didn't need to have a receipt issued and they're sending it back. So I had one of these conversations. I had five of these conversations. I had 15 of these conversations. I'm still having these conversations from all over Canada where people made donations.

But it went into a sleeper file somewhere inside the party, they're told. And I don't know how much was in there. another 7,500K. So that's the kind of stuff that you're dealing with inside the framework in my observation from all these people that have come back to me with their stories about money that they gave but was never received because the party didn't want to advance my campaign. So I'm not sour grapes about that. I think the country is facing a cliff edge. And Pierre Pauliev is a pied piper, leading us over. it because we're not having these conversations and the party structure is a part of the agenda to take us left

you've literally seen the inside of the machine yeah i've been the belly of that beast that's right and uh this is why i think we need a new a new voice uh i think there's a lot of orphans in canada who when you say when you say a new voice grant what do you mean i mean um we have a framework right now where we have a PPC that's polling at 2%. There are a lot of people within, that are out there that aren't connected to the PPC. They've disconnected from politics or political parties. They know that the real conversations aren't having being had in the country. There's a lot of people inside the Conservative Party that I would call the social conservative

Christian right that won't leave the Conservative Party because their real interest is, is their value system. And right now they don't see a viable opportunity to leave because they're not seeing a voice out there that can actually marshal their values into a political message. And so that's one of the reasons that in my journey that I've written this book because this book is about the progression of the small fringe minority. being turned into convoy conservatives, being turned into a grassroots movement that could actually shake the establishment of Canada if we actually unite around some simple values that could shape the democratic process in our country and actually change government. That's what I'm talking about.

Those values are freedom of religion, the primacy of parental authority, and the protection of the innocence of our children. In addition to peace through strength and strong fiscal conservative values and opening up our energy industry and removing the carbon tax and getting our country back on track economically, returning industry to the nation. It just goes on and on and on. And so when I talk about a voice, I'm talking about shaping a new political party that will actually step into this space and be, uh, be true conservative,

be a revolutionary conservative voice and actually reforging this country into the nation that we understand and intuitively want, but maybe haven't found the language yet to articulate specifically what that is. You're having the age old discussion and sitting here as the border city. We've, we've had some doozies and you've got to see the UCP and what happened there. They call it infiltration, right? You got to see David Parker and take back Alberta and firing and pushing and the ousted Kenny and income Smith and on and on it goes. And then you look at Saskatchewan and the Saskatchew, or even the one would argue the Buffalo Party from the last election and where they said there's no fixing it, we need to start anew.

You go federally and that becomes even more of a daunting challenge or maybe not. I mean, just the size, sure, but like the people always go the, how do you appeal to the East? But if you get back to the basics, the fundamentals, I've always argued at some point, I'm like, I don't know, don't Easterners care about family values and, you know, and some of the things that just make our country great, you know, wouldn't that be the case? And I always get, well, it's not that simple. Is it that simple, Grant, do you think? I think it is because I'm meeting, I was just in Ontario over the weekend at a conference and I met an awful lot of people that are resonating exactly with this conversation you and I are having here. And we think that in the West, you know, we're the only ones interested in this conversation. And I heard a lot of people saying the same thing. I just don't think they have a home and they know that the conservatives are having the wrong conversations in the shallow end of the pool.

and so we need to have these conversations in a new political framework within within a Section 91 federal offering. And so that's really in so many ways where I'm moving towards. And I think it's a place in this country that provides a fertile opportunity because look at how much Trudeau has screwed this country up with a minority government. And who has done that? The NDP has propped up this agenda. And what could we do if we actually had a value framework

that was being discussed about, even if it took a minority government position to shape and hold accountable the Conservative Party that doesn't seem to want to have these important conversations? And that's where I'm going. So what's the new party going to be called? It's going to be called the United Party of Canada. Interesting.

You know, then comes the next age-old discussion, which is, you know, conservatives can never unite under one tent. They always have to split off and splinter, and this allows the liberals, the NDP, whoever, to gain as much traction as they do. Because one of the things they do well is they're kind of united, you know, like they're united, but, you know, it's kind of by the whip rather than by allowing anyone to come in there and have their own thoughts kind of thing, right? the conservatives always seemed to splinter. How do you suggest getting around the everyday average Joe who goes, I'd love to vote for it. I love, love what you're talking about, Grant. But like we just, you know, and there's so many of them.

You can't split the vote. That's the first one that always comes up. If I vote for you, even if you do win a couple of seats, you're not going to get to do anything. Like, I mean, what are we going to do? Yeah, I guess we just become WEFers and go over the. cliff edge right I mean that and that's I think that's the point that's different here well first of all we've had three elections where the vote hasn't really been split seriously and the conservative party has lost so you know when do we wake up and learn that that that argument is fairly hollow

secondly this discussion about the reform of the UCP in alberta is an interesting one because while alberta is relatively homogenous in relation to reshaping the one party with predominantly homogenous thinking people, it's a very different thing to try and reform a federal conservative party across the country. And so I think what the West needs and parts of, I guess parts of the rest of Canada,

if there is that homogenousness to it, is they need a party that's actually talking about these values and giving someone a viable option, giving people a viable option to lead the country in a responsible way fiscally, but actually dealing with these issues, so people aren't getting arrested on buses because they happen to talk privately about their views on homosexuality.

And that's got to be a pretty compelling option compared to going over a cliff edge and having Klaus Schwab or the WHO define when you get your next vaccination by force. Some people think I've been hearing, maybe we should just vote for Trudeau and get it over with and get done with the pain because the only way people are going to wake up is another five years of stupidity and pain and everything else that comes with it.

Yeah, well, I suppose there's a progression of logic in that, but I don't think it's going to end up with getting rid of it. I think it'll end up in an uprising in Western Canada, if not in other parts. Look what happened with the convoy. And I think that's when there was an intentional desire to work within our charter, even though now we recognize the charter has been so grossly under. undermine that we have a broken constitutional system. What are your thoughts on the Maverick Party?

The Maverick Party was a group that ran last election. Now, that was focused on Western values, independence, a couple other things. They have a little bit of name recognition. Well, actually, I would say a little bit more than name recognition now, I think, out West. Although I haven't heard or seen much of them lately, so I apologize to the Mavericks on the, if they're listening, because I actually haven't heard much about them. But at the time, I interviewed a bunch of them while they were leading up to the election and everything else. Is that anything that interests you?

I think that the framework for the Maverick Party was for Alberta to separate if I was, if I was, if I was reading it right, I haven't read it too closely. I think that at my heart, the policy framework is to value all of Canada together because we're better together. But we're not having the conversations that we need to have. So I'm not wanting to provide feed, if you will, to that engine of separation until we actually get a chance to decide whether we can re-forge a nation together around much more sensible conversations in this. And what I mean by that is, you know, your protest vote for the million person March had 650 or 700 people versus 15. And I think when you actually break down the demographics in Canada, it's probably much the same when we talk about many of these issues except that this minority perspective is so amplified that we think that there's an extra, you know, we think there's an extra 500 people in the conversation when actually there isn't. And so if the Conservative Party of Canada is not prepared to have those conversations, I think conservatives need to because we need to steward and rescue this country, rescue the country. And so you live in Alberta.

You know what will happen if we just decide to go over the cliff edge. And all of a sudden we've got a UN-driven global governance state telling us what's going to happen. You know exactly what's going to happen. Here's another thought. This is Jason Levine. Jason Levine does the Jason Levine show. I think it is, folks. I might be wrong.

I think it's Jason Levine show. He is doing a show to boost who. he is so that gives him name recognition so that he can run as an I believe an independent if I'm getting this I hope I'm getting this right pretty sure that's what he told me an independent in the next election so that he can be elected as an independence not conservative not liberal etc etc etc and he can walk in and support whoever has the best policy what do you think of that idea because um you know like uh I guess the new party idea I'm like maybe I'm wrong grant I look at And I go, man, everybody says new party, new party, new party, new party, new party.

But, you know, in the history of Canada, when I talked to all these political nerds, I was the one who figured out that there was a party that actually won a majority. It was in Alberta. It was during the 1930s, and they were a socialist party. You know, and other than that, I can't find a upstart party that all of a sudden gained majority or a huge chunk of the vote overnight. And so you go, okay, if the goal is to change the direction of our government and actually have some voice and everything else, would you ever consider running as an independent?

And in theory, if all of a sudden you had a bunch of people across Canada run as independents, maybe they could push and pull on the fabric of the government in a way? Well, I think that's the beauty of our democratic system, that it allows that to happen. I just think that the viability of those voices being able to congeal and form around a message that brings change is more challenging than actually a new party that is rooted in a value framework that causes all of the orphans in the country to coalesce around the recognition of the threat to the nation and the need for these conversations. So, you know, I would rather have a scenario presented where the Conservative Party had to

deal with 100 other candidates that were saying the same thing fiscally, but actually having the real conversations that people are yearning for and recognizing that there's something wildly wrong in our country and see that maybe there is an opportunity for change under a kind of structure and new leadership that can actually articulate the issues. And so in some ways, that's exactly why I've written the book because the book outlines the failures of our representation right now

to deal with the issues that we're struggling with. And so we have a lot of stuff we need to fix in the country. And, you know, so Mr. Levine, hats off to him. I just don't think we're going to get the solutions that we want as a people so that our grandchildren can live the same, live in the same place and with the same freedoms that we've had, unless we have this real conversation. And if it's a new party, I'd rather have that than see the discussion happen because there's further uprisings.

Well, I tell you what, my hat's off. to you for a writing the book and I was I was showing it so for the for the listener there it is the the battle for the soul of Canada okay grant Abraham certainly everybody should take a little peek at that and I forget I can't remember was it I think it was Ben Trudeau not related to any of the other Trudeau's who sent it to me I think so hats off to Ben for for sending it to me I appreciate you you having the talking openly about this being open to all the questions because I like literally I just sit here and I watch you know sitting on the borders an interesting thing because in the pandemic you had Bowen yet Kenney now you got Smith and you got Moe and both provinces although very similar operate kind of different you know and so I just I I'm open to exploring all the ideas because everybody says they have the answer and it's a very giant problem we've

face. This isn't like, you know, a couple of votes and all of a sudden we just sway the turn and all of a sudden we're back rolling and, you know, the glory days are back here. You know, I took, you know, when I listened to your story, I go, well, 2012, crap, you know, like every time I talk to people, it's like longer and longer. And the more people I have, the longer this goes back. It's not 2012. It's way before that. And, you know, and if you talk to different people, they all have the red pill moment. And so you go, okay, the system is set up the way it is. And the longer it's set up, and the longer it's set up, the more it wants to stay the way it is and keep shifting. So how do you take something and absolutely hammer it off its its trajectory, if you would, and move it back the other way? Yeah. And I think that that's a great point. I think that people have to continue to wake up and realize that, okay, while they're being red-pilled, they can't just default to the same pathway politically

that they've applied in the last three generations in their family, which is to say, I'm going to take five or ten minutes to think about what the issues are going on. I'm going to look to see if the conservative party actually provides that answer, and then I'm going to vote conservative. You know, my red pill moment, yeah, we're talking about this of awareness, this progression of awareness going back to 2012 and then incrementally awareing before becoming more aware before I actually had a red pill moment. My red pill moment is a, is a fascinating red pill moment because I went to provincial political information night. meeting in bc and there was some candidates running uh in the bc election in uh would have been the autumn

summer autumn of 20 i think it was and i heard this person get up uh and do an introduction for one of the candidates and they started talking about being involved in this uh this uh committee that they were assigned to because of their job that was basically meeting to work through the thought framework to deconstruct Canada. Okay. Now, that's my language. Okay. Now, that wasn't how this person said this, but that's what I heard.

Okay. So I went up to them afterwards and I said, excuse me, you know, I heard you make these comments, whatever the particular comments were, I can't remember. But, you know, I was basically saying my brain is hearing this. I'm hearing you say that your, a part of a committee that's meeting once a month to break down and restructure the value framework of Canada so that you can rebuild Canada within the framework of Agenda 2030. Am I hearing you say that right? She said, she just looked at me and she said, yeah, you totally are. How did you get all that

out of that comment. And I said, I don't honestly know. That's why I came up to ask you. And then the more I engaged this conversation, the more I found out. And what I found out, and this is where I got really freaked out because suddenly I could see what I would call an intention behind these random events that was making me feel I was losing the country or start. I was feeling like I couldn't identify with Canada anymore what was going on. That's how I was feeling then. And then so when I had this conversation, I started to ask more and I met, I agreed to meet this lady later at a coffee shop and I kind of probed into these these questions more. And I found out that that was a committee of 52 people that were comprised of elected and unelected, elected officials and unelected civil

servants that came from municipal government in bc that came from provincial government that came from federal government and came from the indigenous aboriginal governmental structure all meeting once a month they were working across several different categories of uh issues like land ownership water wealth and prosperity these kinds of topics and they were basically working through the philosophical framework that built Canada, i.e., this Judeo-Christian civic moral order that I was talking about early in the conversation, our understanding of prosperity and wealth and value and the value system and families and white families, the central building block of the society, etc., etc., etc., etc. And they were basically working to undermine these pillars of our nation,

and replace them with this collective notion of this society not being based on the inherent value of an individual, the family unit, and the inalienable rights that make our society work. That's a mind-blowing concept. And as we talked further, I actually said to this lady, I said, would you mind getting me a copy of some of your working. notes from this committee. And she did that. And she got me about eight or ten pages from this committee. And when I read through these notes, I actually led me to sit down and construct a thought paper and write about what I was actually reading because the language and the subtlety of how

they were planning to change our nation and what we understand our nation to be about, really blew my mind. It really blew my mind because suddenly, you know, wealth became a collective concept. The ownership of property wasn't really ownership. It was kind of a stewardship that you held and the government endorsed your holding of it. Kids weren't really yours. You know, they really belonged to the government and we were more the guardians as parents and we're seeing some of that in relation to some of the Quebec legislation. All these things were being redefined. And, even how we use energy and how we were talked about as some people are kind of, you know, insensitive with the use of energy and how this needs to change. There needs to be collective calculation and how our wealth really shouldn't be our wealth.

It just went on and on and on. So I was going through these notes and I couldn't believe it because they got to the place where they were saying, you know, ultimately this is a discussion about a value framework. And these people have a value framework that goes back to the formation of Canada, which of course, again, is this Judeo-Christian civic moral, value framework, moral order. And they said, these people have a blind spot. And this blind spot needs to be reeducated and reorientated to understand the value of the collective that flows out of Agenda 2030. So when I wrote that page, I kind of sat down and kind of extracted all this thought and put it into a three or four page document to actually see it in front of me and verify that I actually saw. actually got it right. And it was a very good exercise for me. And I actually sent it to a few

people that I knew around the country. It ended up in some interesting places. It ended up in some individuals that were MPs within the Conservative Party. And it ended up with in the framework of the RCMP. And that was two fascinating conversations, because on the elected official, the MP conversation. They read the document and they set up a meeting with me, a secure meeting. Not an official meeting, but they set up a meeting with me. And they said, they basically said, like, we knew this was happening, but we had no idea that it was this organized. That was the kind of consensus. And I said, but you've got this document. If you believe what it is I'm saying and that I'm actually extracting the undermining corrosive deconstruction of our nation, why aren't you

engaging and acting? And I actually think that these individuals that I talked to were citizen patriots and good people, but caught in a system that didn't have the, you know, didn't have the energy to challenge what it was that they were reading. It was kind of like it's not politically pragmatic right now for us to engage this, you know, because of whatever, the, the algorithm of getting elected. And I was like, this is, this is like a fundamental undermining of what our people are about. It's, this is the framework that built the wealth of this nation. How can you not responsibly engage with this information? Because this is exactly what you're here to steward. and they just seemed impotent to engage in that conversation.

And that was really the end of the conversation. It was a very nice, polite conversation. I wasn't kind of trying to burn any bridges with these people. And I think they genuinely cared. They were shocked at the fact that this was going on. This was going on in British Columbia. And the sickening thing about this committee was that it was being paid for predominantly by donations from the government and it was being run like a shadow committee that was outside of

parliamentary scrutiny. So this, all this legislative work that is, that is kind of building the thought framework to present a new value framework for our nation is being done covertly through a not-for-profit in British Columbia and paid for by the taxpayers. That's where this stuff's coming from. And this is why we have to recognize that this isn't. These aren't just random. What's the foundation called? I'm not prepared to disclose that on on air. Okay.

Because I think there's going to be a more formal discussion about that in the future. Does it's, can I throw some names out and you can just, or you're like, we're not talking about this. I think it's better not to because I think that there's, I think that we, you know, there's a guy, and there's a guy that I came across and I put him in my book. and he he got ticked off one day because he read a telegram post by Laurelind Tyler Thompson who was talking about an event that she was doing and it said you know come together so we can heal our land this guy's this this poster said and this guy says uh this guy whatever it was about that poster totally triggered this guy I call him telegram Bob okay it's not his real name

I just call him that. And I listen, I kind of follow his channel because he posts some interesting stuff. And Telegram Bob exploded about this post, about heal our land. He just went right off and I can't repeat what he said. Sure. And it was going quiet for about 10 or 20 minutes. And then he came back and he asked, he asked a single question. And I think it's so profound.

He said, how can we heal when there is zero justice? And I thought, you know what? We all see a lot of truth. We know that there's truth. We know that it's not being recognized. But we can't have justice until that truth is recognized and acknowledged properly. And this is the power of the national citizens inquiry, even though it's not binding. And what those good people are doing in that organization in terms of bringing the truth out and the manipulation by the media and the impact of the vaccine and what it means.

etc, et cetera, how do we heal if there's zero justice? And I think that there's a time coming when we have to engage with truth, the issues that are actually facing us and what we know are wrong in this country. And there's justice coming. And we will find a healing pathway for this nation to rebuild. And I think when you ask me that question, I don't want to flag that with you because I think there's got to be a process for accountability that, deals with that work that was being done.

And if we bring it up, they have the ability to change things and disappear into the abyss all over again? Sure. That's right. And so I'm actually, you know, I could disclose that, but my instinct as a lawyer is to sit on it until there's a, until there's a ripened time to actually engage that discussion because that's taxpayers' money working on the corrosive deconstruction of our nation. and someone needs to answer that question of why that was happening

and who thought they had the right to do that because under any other circumstance that's called treason you know what's going to happen on the text line grant what the text line's going to fire out about 50 texts saying it's this foundation i i assume um the old listeners are smarter than me and uh they're on the ball regardless um i think there's a lot that just want to burn it down and uh would love to be pointed in the direction of where to light the match. Now I'm not suggesting go burn anything down, folks.

I'm just saying that I think the shadow games, everybody's tired of it. Right. And I am too. And that's why I think we need a wholesale fix. And burning down one appendage of this Hydra situation that we're dealing with is not going to help us until it comes to the right time for accountability. And that's why I think part of this discussion about appealing to the orphans in Canada that know that this is going on,

is exactly why we need a new party that will stand up and say we're actually going to bring justice forward for these issues and bring accountability for what's going on. You know, I mentioned the Maverick Party and now I'm just having another thought. And you probably had this thought too at some point. Have you ever approached Maxine and said, listen, Maxine? Maxine? Yeah, Burn you. PPC.

I have, I have, you're talking about the Maverick party and then you're talking about the PPC. So do you mean the PPC? Yes. Yeah. Well, I think that I have talked. with Maxine I explained to him that we were setting up a new party and we had a very pleasant conversation about it there was no real bridge building in that I I can tell you that I think that we're working towards another conversation on this

front and we'll see what can shape out of that I think there's some really loyal PPC followers that are probably annoyed a little bit about some of the discussions that I'm having out of the book about why the PPC's not the mechanism to engage this and why I think many of the people that are disenfranchised within the conservative party would never move into the PPC and haven't moved within the PPC. But we're going to talk about that in not too long. There's no way to, this is what I don't understand about politics. So forgive me.

I'm a hockey player, you know. There's no way I'll ever become a Calgary Flame fan. And I truly mean that. But, I mean, if they got Steve Eisenman as their GM and I don't know, heck, the, the, uh, the, uh, Ammonton hired, God, who do I hate folks? It doesn't matter. I'm just like, I'm trying to play out a scenario. It's not even possible because it's Calgary Flames,

and I'm just like, it's been bred into me. But regardless, I go, hockey's an interesting thing because, like, you've changed the management, you change the culture, you can do it overnight, and you can change the trajectory of a hockey team real fast. And I go, why isn't that in politics? Why is it that nobody will ever go to the PPC? Why isn't it a grant?

Can't sit down with Maxime? You can't have a tell-all, Oat front conversation, say, listen, we're going to go back to the family. Do, do, do, do, boom, done. And we're going to run, because PPC's framework's already there. Like, it's already sitting there. Whether conservatives love or hate it, they probably hate it at this point because it doesn't speak to what they wanted to be. But if all of a sudden it did, wouldn't that lend to them all jumping over to the PPC? Yeah.

And you know what? I want to recognize some of the people that have been standing up for some of, for many of the these issues longer than I've entered this discussion and people like Derek Sloan and people like Maxine Bernier and and others and know that they have been the lead excuse me the leading edge of the wedge in terms of this discussion that you and I are having in this country I just think that we need to continue to have that conversation and maybe at the time that I had the conversation with Maxine he wasn't really ready to consider the framework that there might actually be a new party or that there was going to be a

narrative that was being created around a movement of people that felt so strongly about the need for one that wasn't the PPC. And, you know, one of the questions I think probably will have to ask and maybe I'll get the privilege of being on your show at a later time. And we could talk about what some of those value questions are that would make people. not go to the PPC but join a new party. And, but I think what I'm, I'd like to do is provide Mr. Bernier with the courtesy of having that conversation with me first,

uh, without having it on this show today. But I'm totally prepared to do it because I think we're down to brass tax now. This isn't just some boring policy conversation, you know, about, you know, percentages of tax or, or where a pension is.

This is a conversation about actually saving this country. You know, You know what make me tune in? It doesn't have to be me who does it, okay? I want to make that adamantly clear. You know what make me tune in is if you guys did it live and actually had a discussion that wasn't behind closed doors because the one thing that I dislike about all politicians right now

is they have way too many things in the shadows and they don't tell us and they think we're not smart enough to catch on and what's going on. One of the things, Grant, you've been very, I think, you've, you know, I didn't send over a sheet and go, Grant, we're going to ask you all about all this stuff because some of this is just so spontaneous on what you're talking about. I go, Maxime and you, I think, if you were to have a sit down,

I'd once said this about Derek Sloan and Maxine, if they were to have a sit down, because, you know, like, why is it that all these wonderful human beings who all can see the problem with Canada aren't all coming together if they truly believe the Conservative Party there is no saving it under one banner, and let's go and away we are. And then they go, well, we got to talk,

first. I go, well, yeah, okay, fair. But it'd be nice to hear that talk. And I know everything can't be televised. Yeah. But at the same time, it would be very interesting and probably very uncomfortable for all you find folks to have to do that. But for me, you know, I'm just tired of being left out of the discussion when it comes to where the country's heading. And I think it'd be, I can't see a listener not going, man, that wouldn't be something. That would be something. That would be cool. I like that idea. Well, I mean, you need to know, for the record, before I set up a party, I started the process of setting up a party.

I went to every single one of those gentlemen to have, yeah, I should say, I went to all of those gentlemen to have conversations. And with Mr. Bernier, the conversation was that kind of very affable conversation that we had. We didn't get into how do we do this together because I didn't think. it really was my place to say, hey, I'm going to do this. And by the way, there's a looming threat here to your PPC reality. If you don't talk to me about it, it was very much a gentlemanly conversation in the sense of I was saying, you know what? This is, this is what's kind of on my heart and mind to do. I wanted as a courtesy to let you know. And he was very gracious and kind and wished me the best. But we didn't, there wasn't, there wasn't a bridgehead extended to say,

well, hey, why don't you do that within the PPC? You know, rightly or wrong. that was that conversation with some of the other people that you talked about. I went to some extensive lengths to actually find that unity and bring a united front. And for whatever reasons, life or ripeness or space in time, it just didn't materialize. And so, you know, what, I went away. I thought about what I really think Canada needs. I wrote a book on it, and I thought, you know what, we need to have a new expression of this for a new expression of these conversations and a new offering for Canadians to actually deal with some of the issues that you and I have talked about today, Sean, including truth and justice and healing for this country and getting us back on track with continuing to build the great nation that is Canada. and that can't happen without a recognition of the value framework that built the nation

and what the value framework is going to be for the nation going forward. So I'm all, excuse me, I'm all about having that conversation. And in some ways, I feel like I probably tried to do it. And so we're going to engage that conversation again, whether it happens publicly or whether or whether we come out from those cloisters with a position that actually is a new offering to unite Canadians remains to be seen. But regardless, there's a much greater awareness now of the looming threat to the country and where we're going if we don't have these conversations. And this is exactly why I call Pauliev, Mr. Polyev, the Pied Piper, because he's just piping along, leading us along saying, you know, more money in your pockets you'll be free and everyone's kind of going oh isn't that a neat concept

we're going to have more money in your pockets and be more free that's what we want box ticked let's carry on but we don't we know that those that's a hollow offering because there's these real issues uh being presented to us with pastors being put in prison and pornography in our schools and the politicization of our police it just goes on and on and on so when are we going to talk about those issues and that's why I think there's a ripeness now for these conversations and maybe for this freedom fighter leadership conversation to happen. And, you know, just to finish that conversation, just to go back, I'd like to finish it off just for the sake of thoroughness,

thoroughness with regard to this committee of people that work working on this reconstruction or the deconstruction of Canada and replacing the value framework with what I call a Marxist collectivism that's set within a general. end of 2030. I mentioned to you that the RCMP got a hold of that document and they actually contacted me to talk about that. I don't put this in the book because I didn't want to put it in writing, but for the sake of the viewers, that was very interesting because the bottom line, I think kind of off the record as I gathered from my interview with fairly senior ranking officers within the RC&P about what was written, was that, and I think I'll just paraphrase it

this way just to say that they said, you know, if this had happened, if we had read this document seven years ago, so this is 2021, this conversation was happening. They were saying, if this had happened seven years ago, we would have thought your article, this paper was crazy. If it happened four years ago, we would have been freaked out because we were aware of the foreign interference and we're trying to navigate and figure out how to deal with it. And Now that we're reading it now in 2021, we have so many other bigger issues that the best thing that we can do is identify this as kind of a paper that is philosophical. And so in other words, I understood that to mean that they had bigger fish to fry. And we, you know, we've seen now since 2021 that there were in fact bigger fish to fry in terms of foreign interference.

But, you know, I think the thing that all that, you know, all that. you and I and your listeners need to understand is that there's a validation, both from within the infrastructure of elected officials and from within the RC&P that, like no one was saying this isn't happening. There was a validation of the occurrence of what was actually being written in that document. And when you actually read that document, I put that document into my book as Appendix A in the back of the book. And it's posted there so people can see how,

how careful and colorful and attractive the language of Agenda 2030 is. But when you actually weighed into it, you see how it's actually deconstructing our country. And at that stage, I was just a guy who was a Canadian who was worried about our country being unraveled. And I thought, oh, you know what? Mr. Poliev might be a great guy to actually pick this up and investigate it.

And maybe he can expose something in this. and I wrote him an email to say, look, this is what's going on. Here's a thought paper on what's being discussed inside this committee of 52 civil servants or elected officials or whatever. And maybe you'd like to engage this. And I'm an Alberta lawyer. This just isn't some, you know, kind of wing nut representation that you're being given to. I've looked at this carefully.

I have the source documents. I have a credible source that is inside this room. And maybe you'd like to engage it. And I think an appendix B in my book is Mr. Poliyev's response, which simply kind of points to the fact that we need to get back to business and keep Canadians making money and not worry about this stuff. I'm paraphrasing and read his exact response because I posted it. But this is, again, we're circling back.

We're back on this traffic circle of, you know, why aren't these issues being? engaged they're not being engaged because there's not a will to be have them engaged by the people that should be representing us in in this community that you and i are in and your listeners are a part of as they listen to this conversation so if we have a we we're seeing us can i is that we have essentially a broken constitutional framework one that can have an end run done around it we saw that in the in in in cova days we saw it during the convoy we saw it in the invocation of the emergency powers, and we have a rep leadership of our loyal opposition who doesn't see the need to have these conversations just keeps harping on about more money in our pockets.

You can see why we have the problems. If you don't mind, I can read Pierre Poli. I got your book sitting right here. So if you could like, you know, this is what Pier Poli have said back. Well, Sean, if I got to interrupt you, maybe just read my email to them, which is above it. Yeah, yeah, you bet. Okay, here's what it says, everybody. Enjoy the next couple minutes as Sean tickles your ear drums.

Here we go. Email correspondence with Pierre Pollyev, okay? Subject multi-tiered intergovernmental shadow committee to support Reset. And it's sent to Pierre Poliath. The right Honorable Pierre Pollyev MP, you do not know me, but I am a lawyer and a member of the Conservative Party of Canada. I read today to provide with you important information on the reset, which I note you have recently attempted to illuminate for Canadians. This research supports your theory that there. is an assault on Canadians' rights and freedoms, I believe this may be the profound threat

our young nation has ever faced. This article's title may seem somewhat cliche now. It reveals the work of a non-profit organization in BC that is funded by the liberal government $6 million annually and is actively working as a multi-tiered intergovernmental agency to rewire Canadian values, develop new policies to reflect redefined values that are seeking to deconstruct Canadian governance and order, sorry, Canadian governance in order to align with a globalist UN 2030 agenda. It is my view that when all of the anomalies in our political discourse and dilution of charter right civil liberties are aggregated, they reveal a policy trajectory that would never be accepted if their aggregate was held in the light of parliament

or a motion was brought to amend our constitution to affect these changes. This group is working without the scrutiny of parliament but with directives that appear to be directly from the PM. The source of my information is an elected municipal official that sits on the state. committee, the extracts in the article are taken from the work notes used in the evolution of the committee's thought, which I possess. I have not identified names here, but will share the sources with trusted officials if requested by you. Thank you for reviewing this. I sincerely hope it may contribute to informing thought and framing a response for people who are deeply concerned about the erosion of our culture and values in Canada, signed Grant Abraham. Here's the response. Thank you for sharing

your thoughts with me, Grant. Trudeau was from the start viewed COVID as an opportunity for a power grab. He even tried himself the power to raise any tax to any level at any time over the next two years. I successfully led the effort to stop him. Here are the facts. Justin Trudeau told the United Nations Conference that this pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset. This is our chance to accelerate our pre-pandemic efforts to reimagine economic systems. Please be assured that I will keep fighting to defend our rights and freedoms. We need the government to focus instead on protecting the lives and livelihoods of hardworking people sincerely sincerely pierre polly of pc m karlton shadow minister of finance there you go right so how do you protect the lives and livelihoods of hardworking

citizens when you're being presented with a document that's pointing to an ideology that is going to remove their ability to be and create wealth and so that's the shallowness of that response and that's part of what the book is about in terms of missing, missing the point of the threat, or perhaps the point of the threat is understood, and it's just not being picked up for whatever reason. But in either case, the answer is unacceptable for Canadians that are looking at the reality of their lives and saying,

you know, we can't afford to live anymore. We're seeing our country destroyed. We're seeing our freedoms eroded. We're seeing the, the sense of our children undermined. We're seeing our freedom of speech being an arrestable topic in private conversations on a bus. It just goes on and on. So, I mean, that is my point in our conversation is that a lot of Canadians know that that's happening and we're not having the conversations. And this is exactly why I think we need a framework to do it. So thank you for

reading that. And it's a good reminder for me of how subtle that that shift was. in terms of recognizing that this is what Trudeau was saying, but never asking what it meant, or failing to identify that the value framework going askew is going to undermine the hardworking Canadians in Canada that he's seeking to defend. You know, who cares if we're hardworking, if we're all going to be on universal income,

which is what Agenda 2030 is about. Yeah. Because we're trying to preserve resources and stop people moving, which is what 15-minute cities are about. So who wants that? None of us. But that is the shallow skipping over the deep issues that are facing this country, exactly exemplified in that email.

You're reiterating what actually Mark Friesen said when he came on about a week ago, maybe not even quite, right? If you can't agree that 2030 is the big problem, which all this stems from, then we're at a stopping point already because it has to be called out for what it is. and that's a huge chunk of what's going on. Yeah, that's part of the truth. But you would have thought that the conservative framework in Canada would have been able to identify that. And yet they're not happy to discuss a million-person march or the actual ideology that's undermining our nation.

Yeah. Well, I appreciated you hopping on, Grant, and being so open to, you know, how I do things. Because as I was joking with you before we started, I showed up in a mustache, which if people follow me on social media, You get that I was Mario for Halloween. I got a backwards hat today. I'm feeling a little bit festive, I guess. I don't know. It's a great day here in chilly old Lloyd Minster.

I appreciate you doing this. Please, the next time you're in Lloyd Minster, you drop me a line, we'll do it in person, we'll do it across the table, and then you can, we can enjoy, you know. It's always better when we're sitting across from one another, but you come rolling through Lloyd Minster, you make sure to drop me a line,

we'll do it again in person. I'd love to continue on the chat that way. All right, Sean, I'll do that. Thank you for the time today. All right, folks, that's Grant Abraham. So thanks for tuning in today. Of course, today's show brought to you by Calrock Industries, new, used, refurbished oil and gas, equipment in stock.

Calrock is your best bet when it comes to finding equipment that feeds your needs and is within budget and is ready to use as soon as you need it. Just go to Calrock.com. Of course, they're here in Lloydminster. And folks, that's going to wrap it for today. Uh, reminder, uh, today, we didn't do any substack bonus, but if you go to the substack, which is in the show notes, uh, there's, uh, you know, um, 10 in a day. Uh, uh, oh man, I'm, I'm forgetting names right now. Um, uh, this is terrible. I'm, I'm literally spacing. A Tom Luongo and Alex trainer are there. And, um, yeah, I, I don't know why my brain is having a mental block right now. But if you go to substack, you'll see all these lovely people there. Anyways. Anyways. Until we catch up to you on the next one. Have a great day, folks.