Shaun Newman Podcast - #531 - Rufas Crawford

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

He's the head coach of the Meadow Lake SheDevils rugby program. We discuss the sport of rugby, the culture and the growth of kids while playing the sport. Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

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He's the head coach of the Meadowlake She Devils rugby program. I'm talking about Rufus Crawford. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm sitting with Rufus Crawford. So thanks for coming on in.

I'm glad to. Talk rugby anytime I get the chance. Well, you got to tell me, you know, I know about a boat is a little about you as most guests, you know, like I just, I get thrown out, yeah, you should have Rufus out. All right, sure. Like maybe we can make it happen.

And it's, you know, we've been talking off and on about this since the summer. So who is Rufus? Let's start there and then we'll get into a little bit of rugby. I'm your typical prairie boy. I grew up playing as much hockey as possible, street hockey and floor hockey in school and street hockey in the afternoon until your ice hockey practice started. hockey was my whole life till like most prairie kids and until I turned 30 I got introduced to rugby and now I have a new favorite sport you got introduced to rugby at 30 yes I was

rookie of the year my first year I played and I was older than the coach but I fell in love with it right right off the first practice what is it about rugby you like I was just because I was just saying the other day about rugby I'm like uh just one sport I just don't get, you know, like, you know, as you can tell, I enjoy hockey. And when it comes to the big sports, and maybe you'd argue with me on this, but, you know, you got football, you got baseball, I don't know if we really call basketball up north here, a big sport, but certainly in the United States it is and you got hockey. So I guess I just never fell into rugby.

And saying that Murray McDonnell, when I had him on, man, that's a long time ago. And we went out and did it in the Lashburn School. and he got talking about it and I mean, obviously pretty incredible sport is the way he kind of laid it out. It is. And it is,

I'll admit, it's not that big in Saskatchewan for sure. But it's the second most played sport in the world. Rugby. Rugby. Team sport behind soccer. No kidding. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, it's big. It's just not big in Saskatchewan. Fair enough. Well, is it bigger, like is it bigger any other parts of, parts of Canada?

Yeah, on the East Coast, it's huge. BC is, I think they have two seasons and, you know, the national team plays on a BC. So there's, yeah, we were just at a tournament in the end of October and Camloops, 97, 97 high school teams. 97 high school teams. Yeah. All converging. Yeah, they were all from BC except Lashburn was there and Meadow Lake was there. Interesting.

Yeah, two teams from Saskatchewan and mostly BC. Well, rewind the clocks. You're just an everyday Saskatchewan boy, you know, doing Saskatchewan boy things, and you stumble into Metal Lake? No, I was still living back in my hometown Simpson, Saskatchewan, an hour and a half southeast of Saskatoon. And a friend of mine were just working buddies. And he'd got into rugby somehow, and he'd talked me into coming to a beer night, which was probably the first thing I liked to bone. It was a beer night. And that got the hooks into me.

And then I came to a practice. And then it was just the touring and the costumes and the theme nights and the craziness about it. And the camaraderie was, it just hooked me. I have no idea what you're talking about right now. The touring, the costumes. Obviously, this is a different world I know nothing about. Yeah, it's, I mean, there's certain tournaments that you go to, you're trying to get to every year and it's, you know, who can dress up the craziest and what's our theme going to be

this year. And it's so much more about, than just the rugby. It's a huge community. And, you know, you go to these tournaments and you meet people that you played against last year that may have absolutely stomped your ass, but you meet them with big hugs. And it's, oh, so glad to see you guys again. And I always compare it to hockey, not to bash hockey, but I mean, everybody's so familiar with hockey culture, you know, I still.

can barely stand anybody from the town of Watrous because I played hockey there 30 years ago. There's nothing wrong with the town. It's a nice town, but it's just that anger that gets built into some sports. And I mean, there's still competition. There's still grudge matches and stuff. But it seems like after the whistle blows,

after a rugby game, it's, let's go upstairs and drink with those guys. And let's, you know, make sure you buy the referee a drink. And it's just so unlike any other sport culture I've ever been in. So why is that? I don't know. And it's, and it's not just here. I mean, that's worldwide.

I could throw a pair of cleats on my shoulder, and I could go anywhere in the world and never have to buy a hotel room. I just, I could show up at any clubhouse, any rugby clubhouse in the world, and say, hey, can you get me on the pitch for 10 minutes? And somebody would gladly sit. They would just say, absolutely, take my spot. Here's my jersey. You know, comparing it to hockey again, could you imagine you're in your dressing room

and some nobody knocks on the dressing room door and says, I got my skates, can I go for a skate with you guys? It'd be a huge round of middle fingers and beat it, loser. And then, you know, after the game, you've got a couch to sleep on for sure. You've got a place to stay. Don't worry about me. I do this from time to time. People are like, what is Sean doing?

Sean had something sitting in the back of his brain that he knew he hadn't done, and he hadn't done it. That is interesting. It is. Because like, um, uh, there's like hockey culture is you could go around the world and and certainly walk into a lot of different places and, you know, be welcomed, I would say, but you're right to step on the ice. You'd have to probably know somebody that could vouch for you.

I think you'd have to, you'd have to show up with a resume or a little bit of here. I played in the dub, you know, I'm good enough to, to come out. To strap the skates on it. Yeah. It is weird. isn't it? Yeah. Whereas if you've played rugby, they just walking me in. Yeah, for sure. And you'd have a coach to stay on. And if you're in town for two weeks, they probably find your job. Is that like, you know, like they talk about jiu-jitsu if you do jiu-jitsu and you're willing to go through that. And like, it's just kind of like, we know you've tested your medal, so to speak. Is that what rugby would be then?

I don't know if it would be that extreme because you don't have to be that dedicated to be a good rugby player or a rugby player. It's just more like a brotherhood or like a hell's angels without the motorbikes, you know, you're one of us. Come on in. I think with Jiu-Jitsu, there's a, there's a huge commitment and a huge, huge mental commitment and a huge physical commitment. I don't know if there's the commitment to that in rugby that gets your foot in the door, or just the fact that we're all brothers in this. I shouldn't say brothers because the women's rugby is just as as crazy as the boys too. There's a lot of camaraderie there as well.

Well, that's what I see you wearing the she-devil shirt. That was kind of the idea of having you come in was to talk about women's rugby in Saskatchewan. It's funny, I just took off a cold lake girls' rugby team shirt in the parking lot. I thought I better put on a clean one. So, yeah, there's a lot of trading of jerseys. There's a lot of gifts exchange that had,

rugby games and stuff like that. And it's just such a different culture. And another sport I've been in. So you go to, you become a 30-year-old rookie. That's funny to me. You start playing rugby. Mm-hmm. And then, I mean, just as it would be you start coaching, I assume.

That's, when I got into rugby, I said, how did I play every sport I could growing up? I didn't turn out anything. I played every sport I could in school and did extra curse stuff in different towns and played ball in one town and played football in a different town and played every sport my school offered. And how did I go through 30 years and never hear of rugby? How was that possible? You know, I've got to spread the word. I've got to get out and preach rugby. I've got to introduce more people to this game.

And that's how I got into coaching. And every town I land in, I try and see if there's a rugby club in town. How long have you been in middle lake for then? 13 years, I think. What took you to Meta Lake? I was working down in Swift Current. I had a welding company down there. I was coaching a rugby program in Swift Current.

And my wife moved, got her dream job. She said in Meadow Lake. So we packed up and moved. And I got my roots down and started a rugby team. Living in the Great White North. I mean, in fairness, we're all in the Great White North. kidding. But, you know, Metal Lake is North. You know,

some of the funnest talk you have ever played was against the Metal Lake. Metal Lake, was it the Broncos? I think it was the Broncos. We played him senior in playoffs, like back-to-back years. And that barn before it burned down was unreal.

Like, just jarred, packed, like losing their mind. It was awesome. I don't know. Does rugby get fans quite like that? It does. Once again, not in Saskatchewan. You're going to see a big turnout at a game in Saskatchewan,

just some parents and a few alumni, maybe. But the World Cup just ended every four years. The World Cup just ended? World Cup, yeah. And who won it? South Africa. They beat New Zealand. And, yeah, you get to those stands.

And like I talked about, the costumes, there's every country will, you'll go and there'll be a whole section of Samoans, you know, with their, with drums. And then the Fijians will be all in some crazy costume. And then the stands are packed with people, and it's crazy. And it's, uh, even the fans are different, though. I mean, I'll compare it to hockey again, but, you know, you don't have to know anything about hockey. To know that you're supposed to yell at the ref and supposed to argue with them.

And in the ref's an idiot. And I spent, I spent a year down in South Carolina. And I went down to their, they had a local hockey team there, the sting race, I think they were called. And I was at one of the games and people didn't know what was going on. And there was a guy screaming at the ref. Come on, you effing idiot. That was frosting. Do you mean icing?

Is that what you're really trying to say? So he knew so little about hockey, but still knew that he was supposed to scream at the referee. And it's the opposite in that. In rugby. For example, my girls know the name of every ref in Saskatchewan. It's either, excuse me, sir, or excuse me, ma'am. And the referee is, you don't backtalk to the referee. You don't yell at them from the sidelines.

I mean, the fans get carried away, but players, coaches, it's, excuse me, sir, thank you, sir. Excuse me, ma'am, thank you, ma'am. At the end of the game, in adult rugby, the captains on both teams by the referee of beer. could you imagine the referee you know after any other sporting events coming upstairs to the club post and sitting with the players can you imagine two teams two hockey teams

coming upstairs and sharing the same bar same lounge well in senior hockey they do it they do it I don't know if the refs sometimes yeah I mean the ref gets to eat first and the refs the captains and the coaches by there you look at you look at hockey and the refing shortage right like there's any wonder why

I was like, well, who wants to go getting yelled at at a U-9 game, let alone not, you know? And certainly I haven't seen any of it this year, but you've seen some horror stories when it comes to hockey. I mean, hockey culture in general, when you talk about everybody knowing to yell at the ref, it is interesting, isn't it? Like, that's an interesting takeaway. Yeah. And others, and I don't want to bash hockey all the time because, I mean, it was. No, because it's the greatest sport out there. It was.

It used to be. But, for example, I went to a, I did some. I've got some hockey coaching background, and I've done some wrestling coaching background as well. But when we went to our first, you know, level one or your first introduction to refing, so it's a bunch of green adults that want to be coaches, but this is their first coaching seminar they go to.

And we brought in, they brought in a guy from hockey Canada, and, you know, he's got his degree in kinesiology, and he's got his degree in this, and he's played in the dub. And, you know, he's hired by Hockey Canada to promote their product. and there's 10 guys with zero coaching experience sitting outside, I wonder what this fucking idiot is going to try and tell us. I wonder what garbage.

This guy's going to try and jam down our throat. So right away, we've got such a conflict going versus I've been to multiple coaching seminars with coaches from rugby Canada, and it's the exact opposite. It's 10 coaches sitting around going, man, I can't wait to hear what this guy's got to say. Whatever he tells me, I'm going to take it to my next practice. And, you know, this guy, he played. for Team Canada, he knows his shit, and I can't wait to absorb his wisdom. And it's just the two different cultures

again. It's, I'll do it my way, and this guy's an idiot, regardless as his degree and his title. Do you think that's culture, or do you think some of that's just leadership? Well, maybe of those same coaches, you know, two years from now when they're at the next level of coaching, maybe they'd have a little more appreciation or a little more respect for the people above them, but I don't know.

It just seems like everybody thinks they know more than the refs and everybody thinks, you know, the rinks full of coaches that know more than the coach, right? And the rinks full of people that know more than the ref. And like I said, I don't want to pick on hockey, but you see that in other sports too. You know, you go to basketball game. Well, hockey. Yeah, but hockey is the, realistically is our national sport, right? I mean, like it's, it's intense, even from a young age now.

Like it's, it's intense. It's, yeah, and it's, and it's, it's a little bit cutthroat. And, you know, the whole, the whole idea having a 10 and under tiered team or a triple A 10 and under team, that's what we need. And so I'm kind of the opposite. Let's just let kids play and let's get everybody on the ice and no worry about such. But they're all going in the NHL. Every one of them, of course, of course, yes.

And you can't do it unless you bill it out somewhere else. Yeah. But I mean, not every rugby program is run the same with mine, of course. But mine, my philosophy is let's get them some everybody on the field and everybody playing. And then if they want to advance and go to the next level, later. There's plenty of time for that later. How many years did you say if coached? No, it's more than 13.

Yeah, I've been coaching. Yeah, I've probably been coaching closer to 20, 20 years now. A lot longer than I played. I've been coaching for two and a half. So, and I've only been coaching U7, which is I love it. Yeah. I always say you want to solve the world's problems, have them all go coach a couple days of U7 because, like, you just can't be mad.

Like the kids, even when they're, you know, I got to pee or I got to do this or like, it's, it's awesome. Even when they're crying, it's still awesome because I can't think of a funnier place or funner place maybe to be. In saying that, coaching is really something I didn't realize I was going to enjoy. joy, you know? Like, I thought, I was kind of like, I don't want to coach. Like, I'm, you know, I played lots of hockey, but I just like, I don't know how to, um, convey what I know to little kids. I still suck at it. But I'm learning. 20 years of coaching. What have you, uh, I assume you've, you've, uh, had days where you're like, I got this by the, by the scruff and then the next day.

It's one of those situations, you know, the more you know, you realize you don't know anything. And, you know, I had these great visions going into my first year of coaching, and I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it. And it just gets down to it's the basics. You just got to make the basics interesting. And I've been to a couple coaching sessions with high-level coach, you know, Team Canada coach. I drove down to Regina, took some kids down, and this will be the ultimate.

I'm going to learn the biggest backplay that nobody can defend against. I'm going to learn all these. And that coach is just pass-and-catch, pass-and-catch. catch bat. You know, it's just learn the basics, but make them mix it up enough to make it interesting. Because you can come up with the most insane, impossible, complicated play, but if nobody can catch the ball, it doesn't matter. So try and make it fun and try and make it interesting. And yeah, don't be too hard on anybody. And that's, that's where I go with my philosophy. That's funny. That works for you seven, too. Yeah. Because if it isn't

fun they'll be laying on the ground uh i don't know i call it pouting but they'll be they'll show you with their bodies right you seven or like five and six year olds they just they have no way to hide it they just everything's on their shoulder yeah they're they're honest about it oh yeah and so like if it ain't fun within 15 minutes they're laying on the ice and going this sucks i don't want to be here right and what time is this practice that's right and so you got you got to get creative actually uh one of the things um What's the age groups that Meadowlake has? Like, what's the...

Well, right now we have a U-16 team and a bunch of U-14 players playing up into U-16, and we have a U-14 sort of division, I guess. We've got girls from 11 to 16 on our team. Oh, you don't start them younger than that? They play flag rugby in Canada, and they don't want to get into the tackle rugby until year 12. Yep.

The rest of the world, they have six and under tackle, seven and under, eight, and they have weight restrictions. So if you're a humongous eight-year-old, then you're going to play up with the 10-year-olds. But in Saskatchewan or in Canada, it's trying to keep you out of the tackle until you're 12. For fear of injury? I guess. In my philosophy, it's never too early to learn how to tackle safely. And if you're six years old, you have a lot shorter distance to fall. if you don't start tackling to your gangly 14,

that could be trouble. Well, I always think of hitting in hockey is the same way now, right? Bantam hockey or, well, it's not Bantam anymore. What is that, folks? Is that U-13? U-15? I don't know.

I can't. Yeah. I think Peewee's U-13. I'm not supposed to use those words anymore, but it's the only way my brain works. I'm like, banam hockey. U-15, I think. But introducing hitting then, I'm like,

you know, I remember being I would have been 11 years old, got called up to play house hockey in the older division and first shift getting absolutely corked. Like I mean, I got lit up in the corner and I'm like, okay, don't do that again. Right?

And I can't imagine while being like two years old, by the time I'm ban them kids, like there are some kids that are absolute men. Yes. You know? Yeah. And the speed so much has increased. That too.

That too. Yeah. Yeah. So you get way bigger kids going way faster. So one of the things that I admire actually about rugby, and I think this comes from Murray-Mactant, was the learning to tackle and learning how to take a tackle. Right. Those two things I don't think, like when I heard that, I'm like,

huh, you know, like certainly when I was younger, we learned how to hit, never had a take. And I don't even know would they do that in hockey? Like, do people tell you how to take a hit? actually don't know if they do. I think it gets brushed on a little bit. I seem to remember a quick blurb on how to take a hit, but yeah. Well, in rugby, what, what, like, is it, is it, like, is it something that that's the first

thing you're learning so that you don't, or is that just kind of blended in? Like skating, like doing certain things to learn how to balance on your skates. No, I certainly bring it in as, you know, within the first two practices, we're learning how to, how to fall down basically, or how to take a hit. And, and, you know, people, People get this misconception as it's just like football with no equipment. And it isn't. I mean, how many times you hear the old stick them in the numbers and, you know,

get your head in his ribs and all that. Well, we don't have a helmet. So the first thing we have to do is protect our heads. So we tackle with our shoulders. And way less injuries that way, way less neck injuries. It doesn't matter how thick your helmet is if your neck snaps. You know, your head can be perfectly protected, but it's the neck that gets in big trouble.

So you start sticking your head into people's, helmet to helmet or helmet to chest, you know, that sort of thing, bad things. You have the body, you know, I'm chuckling because we're built relatively the same. I'm like, I might have been a decent rugby player because I look at you and I'm like, you're built for rugby. Well, you know, and that there's another misconception. And that's one of the things I love about rugby, especially women's rugby, is you look at the high school volleyball, basketball, track team.

It's the same 12 girls. We need tall, skinny girls that are fast and can jump. and if you don't fit that body mold, well, there's always shot put. And what do you do with a short kid that just is full of energy, but is too short to play basketball or volleyball? They're a great athlete, they're just four feet tall. I have a spot for you on the rugby team. That big girl that's too slow, I have a spot for you on the rugby team.

That kid that gets way too many penalties in soccer because she's too aggressive, I want you on my rugby team. there is a spot for every kid on a rugby team, and that's what I love upon it, is you get every kid a chance to play on a team and be part of a team. And if you don't fit that certain body type in high school, you know, your sports are very limited.

So you kind of take the misfits and put them on a team. And then what do we know about team sports? Like you learn a whole lot more. Yes, yeah. I mean, and you could take any sport and you learn about, you know, teamship and commitment and camaraderie and every sports like that. And I think rugby takes it a little bit further because you're bringing in people from outside your peer group.

Now your teammates with somebody you probably never talked to. It's not the same six girls or same 12 girls. It's, holy cow, I'm part of a way bigger thing now. You know, I'm having flashbacks to Murray, honestly, because I think one of the things he said back then was like instilling confidence in kids that don't have much. And I assume as a coach you get to see that kind of play out. Because one of the things about U-7 hockey, and once again, I'm speaking to my very limited coaching is the progress. I've seen in the wife the one day. Wife's a teacher.

And I'm like, I finally, like this is pretty cool. Like coaching these kids in hockey, I'm like, you can literally see their progression week over week, you know. And by the end of the year, I'm like, we've taken some of the weakest skaters. And I'm no, I'm not the, you know, the. God's gift of coaching by any stretch. But we've taken some of the weakest skaters, and they're like ripping around the ice. And, you know, and, you know, one of the big things for us is we had 10 kids last year.

Each one of them scored a goal, you know, like, isn't that? And a cool feeling for them. Everybody celebrated that. That's pretty cool. And she goes, well, duh, why do you think I like teaching? And I'm like, well, why do you like teaching? He's like, well, I get to see the progression of kids with reading and writing and all these things. I'm like, oh, I guess I always just looked at like 20 kids in a room.

I'm like, I can't do that, right? But here you are on the ice in more of my element, and you get to see the progression of kids growing. And, well, that's a, I didn't, that was a complete surprise to me. Nobody told me about that before I started coaching. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot of that. And you even get parents coming up, you know, halfway through the season, I can't believe the change of my daughter's confidence.

I can't believe how outgoing she is. I mean, when you get into coaching, that's not really, I want to, that's not what your goal is. You want to teach kids about your sport that you're passionate about and you want them to succeed. But yeah, there's those added bonuses that, yeah, I never thought of that. And, you know, parents thanking you at the end of the year halfway through the year. And, you know, she was in such a dark place or she was so depressed and so, you know, into herself and just wouldn't introverted. And now she's out socializing with friends. And there's so much more to it than just the sport.

And I'm glad you're getting the witness that. Well, that's pretty cool to hear you talk about it too, because, you know, it's why I love team sports, right? Like, don't get me wrong. I'm, like, I enjoy golfing and different things, but, like, there's something special about a team sport. And when you talk about that with parents even seeing it, like, I was saying this to, my wife the other day.

When it comes to, like, our kids, I'm like, just want them to have good coaches. Like, I don't know if I'm worried. Like, do I want him to play the top level? Yeah, I want him to play the top level. But I've played the top level and had poor coaching. And I tell you what, it doesn't do you any, like, it ruins your taste for a sport. Yeah, it really can. And you look at Murray McDonnell and Lashburn.

Like, I don't, like, you just got to bring up his name and people just gush about what he did in that town. Little old Lashburn. Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, heck, little old metal lake, you know. too. That's right. You know that Lashburn has more girls registered in Saskatchewan rugby than Saskatoon does and so does Metal Lake.

Metal Lake is Isn't that wild? Isn't it? Yeah. Well, hats off to you because you think about that that's that's the program right? That's that's the people at the top running it because if it's sucked nobody'd be doing it right? Like I mean yeah I mean Mr. Macdonall, he did a...

What a story, too. He just came, picked up basically a book. I've never played rugby, but it looks cool. We should try it. And he took it, and it's still going. I mean, now there's six rugby fields in Saskatchewan. Two in Regina, two in Saskatoon, and two in Lashburn. That's it? That's crazy, yeah. Yeah, I mean, what a legacy.

What he's done in that town, yeah. And they've been competitive. I mean, they're a... Well, he used to... They're a force to be reckoned with. He told me that, you know, they started them in, I don't know, I don't know, grade four, I'm going to say. And I want to even say they could start before them, folks, but regardless, you get the point.

And by the time they hit grade 10, they've got six years. Even if it's not great rugby, they've got, they understand the basics, they understand what they're doing. And when they hit grade 10, they're off and running. Whereas like Saskatoon, Regina, they start in grade 10. So it's like learning, you know, it's football in town right now. It's your football program, yeah. And now Holy Rosary, and maybe the comp, too. I actually don't know that.

But like they've started having younger, now you can play football at like six or seven, right? So they're starting that. You know, you think of hockey, if you just slapped on a pair of skates at high school, how bad would the hockey be for the first, you know, and we have kids skating by two. It's like, get on the ice. That's what we're doing, you know. And, you know, not that he revolutionized anything. He just took a, like you say, he picked up a book and went, wow, this is something. and then started implementing it at the youngest ages.

Yeah, it's a wild, wild story. I mean, we keep going back to Murray. You know, Rufus, we could talk about Meadow Lake and what you've been doing. Well, we've had a lot of success there. We make it fun. We do travel. I mean, we have to. We're in the middle.

We're far north. Not like we have a local league there, but. Your closest game is Lashford. Yes, yes. a two and a half hour. If that isn't this area, I don't know what is, you know? Depending on how well the bus is running, yeah, it might be a three-hour trip to Lashburn, but but we're loving it.

And next year, I mean, we're at the point next year where we're going to have two separate teams, which is, which is huge. We can't have our 11-year-olds out on the field with their 16-year-old, so we're going to have to, we've grown enough that we're going to break it into two different teams next year, so that's pretty exciting. But, and there's always big plans. Like I said, we just got back from the cam loops. There's a talk of maybe flying to Florida this spring.

And then the women's World Cup is in England in 2025. And my brain's churning when our girls will have played rugby four years. They'll be quite good, quite competitive. Let's go to England. Let's watch Team Canada's women's team is ranked fourth in the world. No kidding. Yes. So how cool would that be to?

fly off to the UK, cheer on team Canada, and play two or three games in England. So that's a big part of rugby is the touring and the traveling and the getting dressed up. This dressed up thing, you got to, like what have you guys, what have you ladies and guys got dressed up as? You've got to be a little bit careful with young girls that are so body conscious and, you know, you can't get into hazing and you can't get into. So we've got to be a little bit more gentle with it. But when we went to the Okinawagun, we had a big contest between our older girls and our younger girls. And the winner got to go through all my old totes of rugby costumes

and dress the younger team. And that's how they had to ride the bus all the way to Camloops. Old crushed velvet leisure suits and bridesmaids, dresses, and some homemade stuff that I'd sewn up. So yeah, I had all these little girls. girls dressed up and white stuff that I wore as a costume was 20 years ago. But another example is we used to play when I played in Saskatoon, we played against the team from the British military base in, uh, in outside of Lathbridge.

I don't wait. I'm getting my military bases mixed up. We played against ones in Moose Jaw, but we played against ones in Medicine Hat. That's where it was, medicine hat, military base. And it's a British military base. So they'd come up for a tour once a year. And it was, It was unbelievable the work they'd put into their costumes. There was sci-fi stuff going on. There was aliens and predators and Mickey Mouses just to go out and be. You make it seem like there's this entirely different world that I have no idea exists, and it's rugby. It is.

And there you are. They come up and you host them. You make sure they get fed. You make sure there's beers at the end of the game for them. You make sure that, you know, the bus is there to pick up that team and we all get on a bus together. We just spend 80 minutes bashing each other around the pitch and stomping on each other. And then we can't wait to get upstairs and sing songs together and drink beer together and hopping a bus together and take over a karaoke bar together. And then we don't see each other for a year.

I take it there is some rugby songs that are like folklore almost. There are. and I have been trying to come up with one that's appropriate for a high school girls team, and I have not. They're just not meant for young teenage girls. But yeah, there's a lot of songs. Do you have boys rugby too? Everybody asks why I don't I have a boys team.

And if I could clone myself, I would. But it takes a lot of time to run a girls program and a lot of travel. and I know that if I put up a sign-up sheet to start a boys rugby team, I could have one. But I didn't want to develop a boys rugby team and have it become another boys' sport and then try and convince girls to play it. Kind of like football. You'll get two or three girls every year that want to try out for the boys football team.

I didn't want that. I didn't want it to be an exception. I wanted to start a girls program, get it established, and now that's their team. It's not a spin-off. of the boys rugby team it's not a couple girls that want to play boys rugby no this is the she doubles rugby club this is yours and if I can find another coach or if I can figure out a way to clone myself I will start a boys team second

girls first get it established and then a boys team and we've been so close to having coaches that we're gonna take it over and then they they transfer they moved or something you know and we even a t-shirts made up one year but I've got a box of metal lake skunk ape rugby D-shirts. Metal, like what? Skunk apes. Skunk apes.

Yes. Skunk apes. Yeah. What the heck is a skunk ape? I think it's another Louisiana, southern Mississippi type state. That's what they call a Sasquatch. It's a skunk ape.

Is a skunk ape? Yeah. Yetty, Bigfoot, Sasquatch. Skunk ape. That's, that's, I don't think I've ever heard that before. We wanted to be original, very original. And it went back to my rugby days. We were trying to give somebody.

in our team a nickname of Skunkave, but we couldn't figure out what they had to do to earn that name. And so it just kept lingering for a year or two. So you go with girls. Do you have girls? Is that why you were so, um, it needs to be girls?

Or was there something else that was like, uh, the push for that? No, uh, started up a team with, uh, another coach in metal lake,

or in, Swift current when I was down there. And he'd had the same philosophy. If we get a girls team going, then we'll get a boys team eventually. And then he moved back to Matathex, Toba where he's still coaching. And once again, I was sort of the, the coach.

And I couldn't spread myself too thin to get a, both of girls and boys. And I've ran the idea of trying to do practices together and travel. But I've been talked on of it. There's been too many coaches say, no. The girls that are, you know, body conscious don't show up because they don't want to be around the boys. And the boys show off to the girls and people get hurt because the boys are showing off and nobody listens.

So I'd just rather have a really good one program, and then if I have a chance, I'll move on and make a voice. But I come back to it. So why, like, from the start, were you like, girls don't have enough opportunities to have their sport? Or was there something else that that's why you drifted into, or not I call it drifted, I don't know,

turned into whatever girls rugby? Because you played men's rugby, right? I did, yes. Yeah. When I was in Swift Current, it was somebody else at the school that started it. And my wife worked at that school. And I'd just moved to Swiffgren.

I hadn't really got my feet under me, hardly even. And she said, there's a guy that had the sign-up sheets for rugby. So I immediately phone the guy. Beeline it. Yes. So many pints later and swap rugby stories, and we became new best friends. And then he started a girl's rugby. And I think it was because he'd been coaching high-level rugby in Manitoba for the girl's side.

He just started it up. And he had the same philosophy. We'll get a girls team going and then the boys will come easy. It'll follow. No problem. And but then he moved and then I was solo. So we were stuck with one coached to try and do two teams. So I just stayed with the girls.

And then I came up here and I kind of knew the routine. So I started a girls program with, it's always been the plan to have a boys program as well. But I think it's so much easier if we start a girls, the boys will follow. If we start a boys, it's just another boy sport that the weird girls try out for, the tomb boys try out for.

So I'd rather do it this way. Even though it's taking a lot longer to get that boys team going, I'm still really glad I did it this way. Yeah, it's interesting, I guess. You know, this will probably sound dumb coming out of my brain, but it's almost like most sports start the opposite way. It's almost like the guys get it going and then girls come after.

Maybe I'm wrong on that, folks. Like, I could be completely wrong on that. I actually don't know. I just find that really fascinating. I think it's... Or sometimes they make up a sport to compensate. I think ringette was originally girls hockey. Oh, really?

I think so. I've never heard of a boys ringette. I've never heard of boys ringette either. Yeah. And then I think the answer to boys football was field hockey. That's a girl sport, and I don't know if there's boys field hockey. Do you have kids? I do.

Yes. How old are your kids? 15, 13, and 12. So you're a busy guy. I am right now. My daughter's playing. But I was... How is that?

How's coaching your daughter? Is that a cool... I had some flag rugby going, like flag football. And we had a lot of kids out. My wife doesn't like rugby so much. Not because it's... I think it's the time I've dedicated to rugby that she doesn't want to be part of that world, which is fine.

But it was our last day of rugby. And I said, come out. All three kids are playing. It's just, we're having fun. We're giving out drinks and snacks. And we're just playing games. Come out and check it out. And as she pulled up, my youngest or my oldest boy had punched some kid in the nose for something.

It lost his school and he was in the bushes having a Denver dandrum. And for some reason, my three kids had some moment of solidarity, which they've never had. So my daughter was standing on the other side of the field, thinking this was my fault. He did that because you're a terrible teacher. You're a terrible coach. I hate you, Dad. And then as I was trying to help this kid with the bleeding nose,

my youngest was about four, five come running up and punch me in the nuts. I had all three kids having a meltdown. My wife opened the door, shut the door and pulled away. That was the last rugby she spent. So yes, my kids did all try it. My oldest isn't into it and I'm not going to push it. And then my daughter, she's in her second year and is really enjoying it. A little tough though with coaching your daughter.

I've had to talk quite a few times. Okay. I'm not dad right now. I'm coach. You wouldn't talk to any other coach like you talk to your dad, you know, chill out. You can't talk to coaches the way we talk to each other at home. So there's been a few of those discussions, but it's come a long way. On my end, I've got to coach my two oldest now.

And I'm, you know, the third is well on his way. So that'll be interesting. They're all different. Like my children are very, like, oh, man. But really enjoyable, you know, I probably wouldn't trade that for anything. Like, I don't know if after, you know, U-7, certainly with where the kids, kids are at and everything if it'll change and I'll eventually, you know, take a step back or whatever. I have no idea, right? But to have a couple of years where you get to step on the ice

with them and have a little bit of fun. And nice thing about U-7, I was going to ask, does rugby have any, like, fun games you play? Because one of the best games that we ever, we do now in U-7 is called Wolves and Cheap and a shout out to Chris King. He's a women's basketball coach at the college. And I'm watching one of their basketball. football games they play, right? And I'm like, watching. I'm like, that's interesting. What do you call that?

He's like, oh, wolves and sheep. I'm like, I can do that in hockey. And now we do it in hockey, just obviously different, right? And we just took something and put it into hockey. And now it's like one of the funnest games and nobody's ever heard of it because it literally has never been in hockey before. It wasn't me who did it. It was literally Chris King who was helping me assistant coach at the time who did it.

Does rugby have any hidden gems where you play, I don't know. Um, yes. Yes. Definitely. Uh, and a lot of them come out of a, there's a flag rugby program in Saskatchewan that's really, really well done.

It's a binder that comes and it's built around the, the school curriculum. And it's basically, you walk in and give a gym teacher eight weeks of lesson plans. And every day is a different game. And it's, a lot of it is just, here's a game that you already know,

we're going to put a rugby ball in your hand. Freeze. tag, but you got to have a rugby ball. You know, British Bulldog, but you're carrying a rugby ball. So it's, it's fun games, learning how to, and then you incorporate, you got to make one pass before you get to the other end. You got to make, you got to do something with the rugby ball, and it just incorporates games they already know with the added little bit of rugby touch to it.

So yeah, lots and lots of games I put in, even if I use 16 girls. And I'll write it right into my lesson plan. We can be our age and we still like a good old game. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, I write it right into my lesson plan. Sometimes I don't know what that game's going to be, but I make sure that this is not a drill.

This is strictly fun with a rugby ball. And with the younger girls, I do it more, you know, maybe two or three times of practice. Yeah, it doesn't matter your age. You know, I've seen some adults start playing like dodge ball or something, and they're having fun. Let me tell you, right? And then they get serious.

Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? You think, oh, I'm too old for that. It's like, nah, you're not. Like, you can get, me, I got three older brothers, and we can get into it about just about anything, you know, like, and love competition, love, love that aspect of it. And, you know, you make me wish that I'd maybe given rugby a little bit of a try, you know, like, in a younger day. Because one of the things, definitely heard, like, rumblings about it. I remember people doing it. When you think about it, when you talk about how many pitches he said, there's two in, two in Lashburn, two in Saskatchew.

tune and two in Regina. Yeah. Those are the six. Yeah. Like, you think about that. No wonder none of us grow playing, well, not none of us, but a majority of us. But you can play it anywhere. You can play it on a football field.

Sure. Rugby's just a little bit longer, a little bit wider, but in the polls are different. But you can certainly adapt. And that's one great thing about rugby. And I think that's why soccer is the most played sport in the world. You don't need anything. No, you literally need a ball and you don't even need shoes. Or you can tie your bunny hug up in a knot and kicking around.

You don't want to talk about things that I dislike about hockey right now. It was always an expensive sport, right? It's always been an expensive sport. But right now, it's a ridiculously expensive sport. When you think you could throw them in soccer, you know, and there's just nothing there. There's like, sure, there's a set of shoes and a ball, but I mean one ball for 15 or 30 kids, right?

Like, it's so different than hockey, right? Everybody needs a stick. Everybody needs skates. Everybody needs this. Everybody needs that. You need that, and then you need this. And then when you get to there, you need a little more of that.

And you've weeded out so many people. people that can't afford to play. Now you can't have a team in your hometown. You've got to travel hours just to get enough people combined to form a team. It's one thing I hate about hockey. I love the sport. Like, I absolutely love the sport. It's taught me so much about life, met so many good people, teamwork, everything is, you know, all that.

But, you know, when you look at it as a parent where I said, I'm like, man, this is expensive. And it's not getting any, you know, like a stick now. It's like 300-some bucks. I mean, that's the top of the line, but I mean, still. I saw a pair of skates the other day, $1,400. Yeah. Holy smokes. That's, our rugby season, we charged $400 a season, and that includes hotels and travel.

I mean, we do a little fundraising, and we have some great sponsors this year. Yeah, but you know, the fundraising, see, as kids, we talk about this all the time. As kids, we used to go work the bingo hall. Yeah. Like, we used to go work all these things. No, no, no, just here's my money. I don't understand that. Well, I mean, I think some parents, if you can afford it, they're just, if you get three kids in three different sports, you're so sick of selling 50-50 coupons.

And you're so sick at selling those discount booklets and stuff. Just here's the money. I'm done. Just let me go. I don't want to be part of this all year long. And, you know what? If you can afford it, great. But you still have to have that option for the fundraising for the people that can't afford it.

So you have to put up with the fundraising. We're the people who mean, I'm not opposed to fundraising, right? Like, I mean, I think it's good for kids to have to. Oh, that's the, you're right. I see where you're going to this. Yeah, it used to be the kids did all the fundraising. Yeah, well, we used to work the bingo hall. Yeah.

In fairness, when you think back on it, that whole place was a haze of smoke, right? Like that was not a, you know, that was not a safe place. Well, not a safe place. It probably wasn't the best place for kids, but we used to walk in there and it'll be wafting out. Yeah. Then you'd run the, you know, you'd run the bingo. hall for a night and out you go again, right? I think it's like, I don't know, I don't know how long after me they did that, but certainly

all my siblings did it. Yeah. Like, I think it's a good lesson. Yeah, so such a huge life lesson that has nothing to do with the sport, but because you're part of an organization or sport, you're learning about community involvement. Yes. It's a huge part of being a community is the community involvement. If you're not involved in the community, you know, like, is a community actually?

the community of people don't interact and like get involved and do all the lovely things that communities do fundraise and support others and and help people out when they're in need and all those different things right like by those things at the bake sale that you know are terrible but you're still going to support the team or you buy the things at the bake sale that are phenomenal and you're like overpaid i just i bought a i bought a pumpkin pie for 20 bucks and i'm like i don't know if i assume that's overpaying by quite some but i'm like i don't care it's going to a small community and I'm like and it's homemade pumpkin pie that's coming home with me you know yeah those are the best I've actually seen a bit of a resurgence in the fall suppers I felt like for

for a time the fall suppers in all the little communities started to not die off but do we yeah maybe do I die off maybe do I and I I feel like they're back like gangbusters you see a lot of posters for them yes quite often they're associated with a church one church will do one one weekend another church will do on another weekend but yeah I can't from a small enough town that there was one false supper. You either made it or you didn't. Well, that's Hillmont. That's where I'm from. Yeah. Right. So you didn't

have an option. You were either there or you missed it and you really looked forward to it. Yeah. And you're right. Those are, well, small towns are dying. So the small town false uppers dying along with it. But if you're fine, the new ones, that's a good sign. Is there anything else? I've glazed over with, with rugby. You know,

I walk in with shooting from the hip. kind of here. I did write down a couple notes. I think I covered everything. I was going to chat about. A little story about my first game, like I said, I didn't play until I was 30.

And after the game, we're sitting around in our dressing room and having a crack in a cold one. And my coach says, well, everybody makes sure you go up and buy your opposite of beer. And I'm looking around the dressing room. Who's my office?

opposite. The skinny guy? I didn't have a clue my opposite. So I said, who's my opposite? The guy on the other team were in the same number as you. And I was just floored. They're going to be here? Well, yes, the rugby club host. This isn't our club host. It's the rugby. Of course. We're going to go up and have beers with the other team. And I'd already fallen in love with rugby, but that hit me so hard that really we're going to go sit with the opposition and what what fight no we're going to sing songs probably get naked you know do something stupid you're going to wake up in one of their floors tomorrow morning really this this is so strange to me so alien to me but I loved it the fact that somebody up there was waiting for me to come by them or or I'd get up and they already had a

are waiting for me. The guy that I was... In rugby, you don't get to pick your number. If you play this position, you get this number. If you play this position, you get this position. Really? Yes. So it's one through 15.

That's an interesting... And you don't see names on the back of rugby jerseys, even at the highest level. It's not about you. It's about the team. And you don't get to pick your number. You don't get to retire a number because there's only 15. And the next seven are the subs.

So your rugby team is one to 22. that's it that's interesting isn't yeah yeah because you think of you know the hockey culture you know what's the one of the highest honors in all of hockey well Wayne grexky got his entire number retired from every team right and they put his hockey number behind the net for a full season I think and you go like that's about as high as honor as you're ever going to get in the NHL or at the highest level and so you see people retire hockey numbers and that's you know that's about the individual and what they meant to a program or a team or the game of hockey or whatever. And rugby takes it a completely different way.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, you know what number you, what position you are. That's what number you play. What a cool thing to find at 30 years old. It was an eye opener. And, and, you know, you asked earlier about, you know, what have I learned from coaching? I think it's changed me a lot.

It's made me so much more tolerant and patient and less selfish because I really, when that light bulb goes on in the field and I see that, you know, you practice, you practice practicing it sometimes it doesn't really click in until you get on the ice or on the field. And then there'll be girls run around on the pitch and it's, oh, that's why we've been doing this. Now I get it. And they come back to the next practice and try way harder because now it makes sense to them. And I just live for those light bulb moments where the girls are going, yes, or the parents. that comes at the end of the year, and, you know, thank you so much. Not for the win, not for the, you know, we made it to provincial finals or something. It's not that.

It's about the changes in people. And it's changed me a lot. You know, I'll be in a lineup at a, you know, at a grocery store or something, and somebody will be in front of me on their phone and that, you know, come on. The old me would have said, hey, put your fucking phone away, you know, or go to the back of the line. But now I'm thinking that might be a parent of a kid that I'm going to be a parent of a kid that I'm going to coach or that I want to coach and I want to have a good relationship with that person. That might be a future sponsor.

That might be somebody that's, you know, going to be our team accountant next year. So I treat complete strangers differently now. I just have such a tolerance for, for people. And then I'm really less selfish, I think, because I live for those moments for the other kids. Well, the thing is what you're talking about is you just don't know what one interact, you know, like the ripple effect of it, right? Yeah. Because, you know, we've probably all had that experience where you talk to somebody

and you're just kind to them and you don't really think much of it. And they turn out to be good friends with somebody that you end up going to talk to. And they're like, I've heard about you. And you're like, oh, okay. Great, right? But it can go backwards. You could be that asshole with no patience. Yeah.

And then, yeah, it could backfire. So I've had to hold my tongue quite a bit and it's paid off, I think. So there's a lot of good stuff being said about the team and the girls and the changes. Lloyd have a rugby program? It does. Yes. Alberta, though? Yes.

So that, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's too bad because Saskatchewans insured through rugby Canada and Lloyd is insured through their schools. So their insurance is way cheaper, but they're not allowed to play teams that aren't affiliated with the school. And if we're not affiliated with the school, we can't play each other. So there's Lashburn and Lloyd. the two closest, and they can't play each other. Isn't that wild?

It is. It's a bit of a bunch. Oh, the insurance thing is always, it's a wild, you know, conversation just in general, right? Like, that's, hmm. The, uh, what, uh, when, when season? Typically, we try and squeeze it in as soon as the snow's off the pitch in May. And, uh, if you're affiliated with a school, you've got to be, I think the rules you've got to be done two weeks before final exam.

So it's a short season, May to June. and then if we carry on into, you know, forming a provincial team and playing Manitoba, Alberta, then you get into three or four weeks after that. And then those that want to carry on even further can go into August. And there's a Western Canada championships in August. But right now, after COVID, the numbers get decimated. So it can be us and Lashburn can be the provincial team and then we can be the, you know, go to Westerns, but there's not a lot of other.

in northern Saskatchewan. It's going to be tough on competition, you know, like I think of, uh, I grew up playing fastball. And by the end, I was playing for Grand Prairie. So I was,

you know, living in Lloyd playing for Grand Prairie. And there was only a handful of teams left in all of Alberta. And we just walked to Westerns pretty much, you know, and that used to be every small town. Every small town. I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, well, grew up, my brother won nationals and all of us played in summer games and we just on and on and on it went. And, you know, don't get me wrong, I go now looking at it.

I'm like, should you play baseball? Yeah, probably. I don't know. Like, there's not a real trajectory for fastball. There isn't, no. But in saying that, it was a fantastic sport. It's just there's nobody to play. So if there's nobody to play, how do you get better?

How do you work on things? Heck, we were talking about it. We used to play in the men's league. So you'd be like, you know, think about that. You'd be like 13 years old playing grown men. Like, that's a pretty wild, like, that doesn't happen anymore. No. No, you can't even be on the same room as the man.

If there's so many laws and ethics and, you know, you've got to tow the line. But, yeah, there's not a lot of intermingling of that age difference now, so, which is probably a good thing. Well, I appreciate you coming in and doing this. Oh, it's been great. Anytime we'll shout up rugby. Thank you for much much. Well, yeah. Well, in the next time, who's the guy we're missing today?

Chris. Chris. So if Chris is listening, you, you, uh, there's. We were supposed, well, not that we tried lining it up for two, but that's a hard thing to get schedules to work. Oh, well, next time. Yes, he's a little closer, so hopefully he can come in and add to the story. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming in and doing this and best of luck with the...

I enjoyed it. It was fun. You know, when do you, you will play Lashburn then? We will, yeah. And beautiful thing is we'll play them. Our kids will get off the bus and they'll run out and there'll be a big round of hugs. and maybe some crying, and then we'll go warm up,

and then we'll play each other, and then there'll be hugs and crying, and they'll leave, or we may play a game, depending on how many players there are, we'll play a game of seven on seven, and then maybe we'll combine teams and play 12 against 12.

We'll play with each other, we'll play against each other, we'll bash each other up, we'll hug, we'll cry, we'll text, and we'll go on. You're making rugby seem like this beautiful sport, I'll give you that. It is.

It's a, it's a, It's controlled aggression for 40 minutes and then nothing but love and camaraderie. I appreciate you coming in and doing this. It's been great. Thanks.