Shaun Newman Podcast - #537 - Tammy Peterson

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

She hosts the Tammy Peterson Podcast, public speaker, cancer survivor, and wife of Jordan Peterson.  Let me know what you think. Text me 587-217-8500 Substack:https://open.substack.com/pub/shaunnewmanpodcast

This is Graham Wardle. Mark Friesian. This is Marty Up North. This is Alex Kraner. I'm Rupa Subramania. This is Tom Longo, and you're listening to the Sean Newman podcast. Welcome to the podcast, folks. Happy Thursday.

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She hosts the Tammy Peterson podcast. She's a public speaker and a cancer survivor. I'm talking about Tammy Peterson. So buckle up. Here we go. Welcome to the Sean Newman podcast. Today I'm joined by Tammy Peterson. So first off, ma'am, thanks for hopping on.

My pleasure. Thanks for dealing with my technical issues. You know, normally somebody comes on, I'm like, oh, yeah, we got all the time in the world, don't worry about it. Meanwhile, this morning, I'm having, I'm having a day. So I appreciate you bearing with me because normally I'm sitting here and I'm just like, everything's ready to roll. But today, I'm getting throwing a curveball. So appreciate you coming on and doing this. Now, I mean, when it comes to your husband, I got, you know, the podcast in its weird way started because I read his book and started listening to his lectures and a whole bunch of different things.

And along that path, I started listening to a bit of your stuff. And I was like, oh, my goodness. This is very, very interesting. But I don't, you know, I've read a ton and I've listened to a ton. But I actually don't know much of your story, Tammy. And I was hoping you could share a little bit with us this morning. Okay. So my story starts probably most dramatically after Jordan,

became public. We went on tour and about halfway through the tour. Oh no, it was probably about at the end of the tour. I had gone carnivore in January and I was looking forward to going on a walking tour with my sister in Croatia in May, but I had arthritis in my knees and I asked her if we could go on a walking tour for 70-year-olds because I was feeling like I wasn't going to be able to climb any mountains. And my daughter got a hold of me and she said, you know, mom, I gave up the rest of the plants that we were eating. I'm only eating meat and my arthritis is going away. And I thought, what do I have to lose? I actually had arthritis in my wrists and my knees. So I couldn't do anything or go anywhere. But didn't it seem, you know, it's funny because I've just started on the

carnivore diet. Didn't it seem like counterintuitive to every. You know, it's funny. You know, it's funny, because I've just started on the carnivore diet. Didn't it seem like counterintuitive to everything you've learned up until that point. We're just going to eat meat. Absolutely. We have been, we have been told, I mean, I can remember drawing and coloring in school, the food pyramid, with all the grains at the bottom and a tiny little bit of meat at the top. You know, of course, that was all the Department of Agriculture. It had nothing to do with health. It had to do with selling grain. We've been duped for a long time in many different ways.

And this is one of them. And this is catastrophic. I mean, the number of people, I could go on and on, the number of people who are obese and have metabolic syndrome and chronic disease. And it's all from eating way too many carbs, way too many carbs. Because I imagine, I just for a second, I imagine that we, are living in the woods or on the prairie or something, we're going to shoot whatever animals we can find to eat.

We're going to fish whatever fish we can find in the water. And we're going to eat whatever berries are on the trees and whatever roots we can find in the ground. And that's all. We're not going to have any more carbs than that. And that's about right. And we've gone way too far. You know, it's funny because we talk about manufacturing meat now

and everybody's up in arms, manufacturing meat. Oh, that's such a ludicrous idea. But we've been manufacturing carbohydrates for years, and we've been celebrating it. You know, cheeses and potato chips and all this stuff. It's all manufactured food, and we all, yeah, you know, let's watch a movie and eat all this manufactured food and never thought anything about it. Of course, it's caused a huge epidemic of obesity and chronic disease. But all of a sudden, everybody woke up when it was like, meat, we're going to manufacture meat.

That sounds kind of weird. So finally, people, we've all woken up. I've woken up. Everyone's woken up. Well, I hope it makes a difference. But I can't say I'm hopeful, really, to tell you. Really? Nah, not, I don't know.

I've traveled around a lot. And recently I went to Belfast, and I found out they're planning to excellent. execute 200,000 cows for climate change in the name of climate change. It's crazy. Hasn't climate change become just another religion that people are sacrificing everything towards? Well think of that. We're sacrificing cows for climate change. Doesn't that sound medieval?

Yeah, well, it sounds like an alternate universe, Tammy, honestly. I just, I try and understand where we're at with some. some things and well my brain cannot keep up some days and most days I just can't understand you know I think it's you know we've we've because we have lost our our focus on the transcendent that people aren't got being guided by from what's up above their intuition we're finding other things that guide us whether it's money or prestige or your or your spouse or saving the planet it's all the same thing it comes up as a multi-headed monster if it's not centrally god anyway so we had gone on tour We had gone on tour and I was going to go on a walking tour.

And I went on the walking tour and I did all right because by May, my knees, I mean, two weeks after I went on the carnivore diet, my knees started to loosen. Yeah, three days on the carnivore diet, my knees have loosened. Oh, interesting. I've been like, I can just feel it. Like, I feel better. Like, it's weird. Isn't it something? Yeah, it is something.

It is. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, things that you don't even know you're suffering from, you will find will go away. You know, you'll think, oh, I always had that. So, yeah, I had a shoulder. I had bicep tendonitis from the time I was 17 years old. And I've never thrown a baseball overhand since I was a teenager.

I've never been able to swim front crawl because that was too hard on my shoulder. It got to the point where then I had arthritis in my. wrists. I just gave up riding a bike completely. I had given up walking up hills or anything. So my world was getting smaller and smaller. I thought it's going to have to buy a house that had no stairs because that was getting very painful, especially to go downstairs. And all that went away. It's all gone. My mind is clear. My memory when I was 40, I was starting to look for words or I'd be in a conversation and I'd have a hard time following what was going on and that's all gone and I'm 62 it's all gone it's it's uh unbelievable yeah

there's probably not a a high enough word right now to stick to it I did carnivore for 11 days back like a year ago felt phenomenal but then got really sick on day 11 like day 11 I just got like this flu that lasted like three days in a row oh you know what that is though right no I don't What was that? That is, I can't remember the name of it right now, but when you change from a carbohydrate, a glucose diet, a glucose metabolism to a ketone metabolism, you can have a Hertz, that's what it's called,

a Hertz reaction, which is a flu, and your body is just going, wow, what are you doing? I was metabolizing glucose, and now it's going to be fat? Just hold on here a minute. And so then your body just kind of put. puts the brakes on and is trying to deal with it. And you feel like hell.

You just don't feel good. But that's a flu that goes from, if you go right from a North American diet to carnivore, see, I went from a North American diet. I gave up wheat and then I gave up gluten and then I gave up dairy. And then I gave up root vegetables. And then at the end, it was just salad. So I had no reaction.

Well, that's, well, It was friends that actually we got talking about it. And we were talking about all these different fad diets. And I said, yeah, I've actually tried a whole bunch of them. And none of them really stuck. But I'm like, Carnivore, I'm like, I felt it. Like in 11 days, I've never felt that good until I got that sick. And they're like, well, why did you stop?

And I'm like, well, because I got drastically sick. I just couldn't see up from down kind of thing. Like, well, did you read anything on it? And I'm like, well, no. It's like, why didn't you put a little more effort into it, Sean? And so I went and bought some books on the carnivore diet. And I'm in the midst of that, and I've started it back up because I'm like, you had something that worked so well, but you didn't carry on with it. And I find myself a year later having similar issues again with knees specifically.

And I still like to play hockey and everything else. And I find that I'm being, you know, you talk about being, you know, whether or not you can go on a seven-year-old hiking trip. I'm only 37 in days. I feel like I'm way older than that, not mentally, just physically. and so I started picked up books and so now I'm starting to read into it because I want to understand it so I can get through whatever is coming

by switching so fast because well I mean I'm only into day seven I think today and like the knees feel fantastic it's it's so just predictable you know or not predictable I guess I'd gone through it once it's just it's amazing it's like yeah my knees feel good like I you know it's wild but for all the things we've said

you know Tammy I got to ask I'd seen Jordan on stage back when he was on his rise I guess I don't know and then I saw him once at a theater and then I saw him once when he brought you to Rogers Place that would have been this summer I believe and that was fantastic

so the first time I saw him was fantastic the second time I thought it's almost like he's too polished now like this is he's like getting very good at speaking but it's almost lost some of its uh i don't know his wanderings on stage and then the third time you went on stage with him and i i guess i'm i'm jumping ahead and maybe you want to go back and and i apologize um if you want to tell the entire story but one of the things i have been searching for as a married man as is people to almost emulate like as far as couples go like marriages like just seeing what i

healthy marriage looks like. And what I saw in Eminton that night, I'm like, wow, I mean, I'm sure there's stories. I'm sure there's up and downs like every marriage. But when you two got up on stage and danced and then sat down and had this like interaction with the Q&A, I was like, that was something, honestly. And I don't know how that comes to be. Maybe there's a whole series of things that happen in order for that instance to occur. But I just have so many questions when it comes to married life, I guess. And I find when you two were on stage, I was like, huh, I feel like there's a ton to learn here. And maybe, I don't know, I guess just your initial thoughts on that.

Well, that's, that's interesting for you to, to say that. Because Jordan asked me to go on stage, not for any other reason except for Michaela had been, my daughter, Michaela had been opening the shows. and then she had a little girl. She had to go home. She was like, this was fun, dad, but I have other things to do. And I had been there, right? I had been, I had gone on tour with him, even though I had, I wasn't going on stage.

I worked as a logistics person. I made sure he got to the show and was fed and had a nap and hadn't done too many interviews so that he didn't have the energy for the show. I made sure that everything went the way it had to to get him on stage and get to the plane. Like everything. I just made sure he was running right. And I did that for 250 shows. I sat in the theater for 250 shows.

And so I think when my daughter decided that she didn't want to, and he turned to me, he'd seen somebody who'd been there the whole time, who'd done everything that came that needed to be done. And so it seemed like the next right thing to do. So he asked me. And I wouldn't have said yes, but everything I'd been through up to that point had taught me that I had to be, I had to be my best own advocate, and I had to have courage and strength to do the things,

to do the next right thing. And so although I knew I'd never been on stage, and I've been a terrible speaker because I get also self-conscious and not be able to remember what I had to say, I said yes, because it was, well, when I was very ill, I prayed to God. I said, if you let me live, I promise, I'll speak publicly. And I don't know why I, you know, I mean, I guess I was on tour with Jordan and he was speaking publicly. And I wasn't saying anything. And so I thought, somewhere inside me, I thought, I need to speak publicly. And I haven't. And that's maybe a sin that I've committed, a sin of omission that I have committed. And God, if you allow me to live, I promise.

that I'll step up. And so when he asked me, I said yes. And I asked for courage and strength before I get on stage. So I go out there. I review a rule in his book. It doesn't matter which rule. I just review a rule that speaks to me that day. And then I think about my life and what's happening in my life at the moment.

And then I go up on stage and talk about it. And that seems, and it's local. It's a local story. And when he gets up on stage, it's more philosophical, more religious, psychological. It's not a local story. And so I think that we play off each other. We didn't know that would happen, but we'd play off each other. And then in the Q&A, people liked, people started to tell him in the meet and greet.

Yeah, it's really good to see you both on stage. And we thought, oh, well, we didn't know that was going to be. part of this. That wasn't even in our minds that that was going to be important, but everyone told us, yeah, you know, there's something that you guys are showing us on stage that we need to see. And we thought, huh, well, that's interesting. So, you know, more recently, we traveled with Douglas Murray, and I did the Q&A with both Jordan and Douglas Murray, and that was really fun. Jordan and Douglas Murray played off one another and I just asked questions and it was kind of a nice change. But when we went through Canada and we went to Alberta where you saw us, we were still just doing it just Jordan and I.

And we may do that some more, but I think we'll probably invite other people to come along to and change it up a little bit. you know, because we've been on tour now for, I don't know, four years or something, like quite a long time. And we literally live on the road, which is another thing we learned. When we first went out on tour after we both been really sick, George was still pretty sick when we started on tour. And then he started getting sicker and sicker. So he was feeling worse and worse.

and we were in Detroit, which is very close to Toronto. I said, I'm going home. I've had enough. I can't do this. I can't watch you suffer so much and not know what's going on or any way to help you. And I'm just going home. So I went home and I was at home and I was thinking,

you know, I really like to be on tour. I really liked what we were doing. But he was so sick that I couldn't stand to be there and witness all of that. And I just said in a kind of a prayer, but not really, what do I have to do to go back on tour so that I can do it? And I heard a voice say, get your own hotel room. And I thought, get my own hotel room.

I thought, my husband won't be very happy if I get my own hotel room. So I called a friend that I trust. And I said, my higher power told me to get my own hotel room. and she said, yeah, good idea. Get your own hotel room. So I phoned our assistant and I said, book my own rooms from now on on the tour and I went back on tour.

And at first when I got there, Jordan was like, you're going to get your own hotel room? Well, at first he wasn't quite sure, but he trusted me. And we started having separate rooms. And I started doing my podcasts again, which I wasn't doing because we were sharing a room

and he had podcasts. So I'd just be quiet while he was having this podcast. And in the mornings, I would get up first because he works later than me. He has a meet and greet, so I go to bed earlier than him. I'd get up in the dark and I'd sneak out with my rosary to pray, like in the hallway. Now I had my own room. I'd open the blinds, pray, schedule podcasts, do my exercises. I was doing Pilates.

And I have to do, I had so much surgery on my abdomen. with getting my kidney and my lymph out and all of that. And I had two surgeries because they didn't find really what was wrong with me until the second one. So I have scar tissue. And if I don't do Pilates, I start to get, that scar tissue pulls you around. Right. But if it doesn't, I feel fine. So I have to do my exercises.

And I wasn't doing, or if I was doing my exercises, I was doing them in the bathroom on a porcelain floor kind of thing. because he was sleeping and I didn't have any space or I was doing it. We were driving in a bus and I did Pilates on the bed while it was moving. It's funny, you know, when I think about it, I'm like, oh man, that must be. Like my initial reaction to it, Tammy, is like, it's got to be really tough. I wouldn't want my wife, you know, in a different room. I just, I immediately go like, I want my wife in the room with me, you know. But you think about it, you did say, and I think if I'm remembering correctly,

that you've been on the road now for four years. So, you know, I say that and then I go, yeah, but my wife and I love having a little bit of time apart, right? And you go, like, four years on the road. I don't even know where to begin with that, you know, like I don't know if a human being was ever put together to deal with being on the road for four years. And then to try and, you know, jump the hurdles that come with it. And I'm sure you have many a hurdle. that comes with being on the road all the time. I didn't even, you know, but it's still as a married couple,

and just sitting here on this side, my initial reaction is like, I don't want that. But, you know, you talk about all the different things that are going on. A little bit of space probably hurts no one, because, I mean, I don't know if there's a single person out there, that, you know, they're married couple, I mean, where, you know, like, eventually you just need, you just need to go to the living room, the basement, out in the garage.

I mean, except you have space. and on the road I assume space is a well that's a little different it's a little different and our we go we arrive in the city on the airplane we go have a rest go for dinner do the show go to sleep get up in the morning have breakfast and fly out so sometimes we'd have enough time to go for a walk in the morning and so that would be our time together that was wasn't organized and public. Right? So even our dinners, often our dinners are with lots of people because we're not just, we're

not just traveling around on a book tour. We're trying to listen to people in each city, in each country to find out what's going on there and what are their concerns. And I'm sure that you're aware of this ARC conference that just happened. Yeah, so that came out of the time that we were traveling because we had dinners often with 8, 12, 20 people every night in different places. Where do you find, I don't mean to pry, but I guess I'm going to. Where do you find quiet time then to be with Jordan or maybe I should flip it where he finds time to be with you? That's a good question.

I've been thinking about how to talk about that. And I have a theory. I don't claim to know what I'm talking about, but I have a theory. So I have my own room, and he has his own room. And now we have our own rooms at home too. Because this has worked really, really well. And we didn't see it coming. I mean, God told me to get my own hotel room.

It wasn't my idea. But we're paying attention. and so this is what we did. And I've been thinking about the Bible and how everybody is always up in arms about the fact that it says that a woman should serve her husband. So I've been thinking about that and what that really means. And in our experience now,

and it's been three years probably that we've been since I was really sick, because I was sick in 2019, right? So it's four years. I guess it's been more like four, five, six, seven years we've been on tour. So a long time. I think, so this is what I think. I think that a man, if you're not sharing a room, if you're not sharing a room,

then in our experience, Jordan would come to see me in the morning. He comes to say hello. And we have a cuddle, right? and it's good it's good because you're not sharing your room you kind of miss each other yeah right so then so you so you genuinely say hi and uh i'd like some human contact i'd like some contact uh some physical contact even and so then so he comes to see me in the morning and that's all good and that happens maybe say say four times in the week and then it gets to a point where I want to go see him.

But that doesn't happen every day. Every day he wants to come and see me. And I want to go see him maybe once a week, maybe twice a week, maybe one and a half times a week. Like not as often as he wants to come to see me. So I think when he comes to me, that's good, it's connection. but when I go to him, that's me getting on my knees and saying, I want to be with you. And that's profound. And I think that's a woman serving her husband.

I think it's actually the necessity of being together, intimate, that brings a woman to the man, but it has to be her that comes to him for it to be really true. I don't know why. I don't know why, but it seems that way to me. So I don't know what you think of that. I don't know. That's, that's, there's a lot to think about there, to be honest, you know.

I married a woman, amazing woman, you know. We got three young kids. It's busy. She does very well in her career. So it's not like it's busy. And she has success. And I want her to have success and all these other things. But when you're talking about intimacy in general,

I don't even, from a man standpoint, it's always better when the woman is the one facilitating. I can almost like, I don't know, that's my perspective. It's like, that makes, I don't know how to put it in philosophical terms other than just that makes sense to me. That makes sense. It does. And it makes sense that Jordan would want to come every morning, like come towards you every morning and be like, hey, I just, I just want to hug you. I just want to.

Like, I think about not having Mel in bed every night. And I, you know, like every once in a while, sure, to spread out and like have. a full bed yeah awesome this is amazing but every night no I'd be pretty sad about that I would I would genuinely be sad about that I'd feel lonely at nights is what I think I would happen now in saying that our life is completely and I would say 90 what 9% of people's lives are completely different than Tammy and Jordan like you know when you're on the road I I just that's got to be um like the spotlight is got to be fun for a bit. But eventually, you know, it'd be probably nice to go home, have a

morning routine that you've worked on for how many years, you know, like there has to be things that you've been getting pounded with on the road that you hadn't had to contemplate up until all this has been going on. But now you're saying seven years, like for seven years now, and you getting sick, Jordan being sick, your daughter and all the health problems that have come through with Michaela and on. Like, you guys have really seen some, I don't know, tribulations of epic proportion almost. Yeah, you know, people had talked about when Jordan and I were sick and we got, I was, I was very, very sick for about six months, I think.

I haven't really thought about it, but not that long. Jordan was pretty deathly sick for three years, like a long time. So he really suffered like tremendously for a long time. and people have said to me, oh, we think that you and Jordan were suffering from a spiritual warfare, which I have, hmm, which I'm, I think I have a book on it now. I haven't read it yet, but.

What do you, what do you think? Well, it was, it was pretty profound, you know. We were really sick. It was pretty profound. So I don't know. Do you believe in spirit? Tammy, do you believe in spiritual warfare? Yes. Yes, I do. I do. I think that's what we're suffering from right now in the world.

I would agree. Yeah, and I think more people are agreeing now, I hope. Yeah. On this side, you know, when I first started this podcast, you rewind the clock to 20, I want to say it was 2018. Oh, it's right around that time frame. We stumbled on this guy named Jordan Peterson. He'd had this interview with Kathy Newman. And you watched it and you went, what is like this is like what? You know, and then you read his book and on and on it went. But when I first started this podcast, I interviewed, you know, you coming from Alberta, you'd know the names of Glenn Sather and Don Cherry and Ron McLean and all these hockey people.

That's what I, that's what I was. And then COVID hit. And I didn't want to talk about COVID. I really, really, really, really, really didn't want to talk about COVID. Let's just move on, can we? And it wouldn't. And I mean, here in Canada, we went to La La La Lola Line. and at times we're still there.

And so eventually I relented. And doctors, lawyers, professors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it has led me to which I can, I still have a hard time putting it enough into words, but it led me to faith. And I'm like, of all the places to walk you towards, why is that it? And yet now I sit here and the toughest days I've had, you know, when you talk to, to people who read the Bible in particular, they go, oh, you're just in the middle of spiritual warfare.

And then the more you start reading about it, and the more you start praying and reading the Bible, the more you start to see it, and you're like, oh, my goodness. Like, why is it the Western world has forgotten all about this? We've just forgotten where we've come from. Yeah, I think, well, decadent, you know, we've been pretty well taken care of, right? Our infrastructure is there for us. Our food is there for us.

everything is there for us and so we've got complacent and lazy and God doesn't like that he doesn't like that would you say complacency and maybe even laziness

leads you away from God then well that's sloth that's a sin so yeah it's funny and it's something so easy you wouldn't think that little easy thing would pull you away from faith oh yeah but

it does for sure you've had it for sure it does yeah you've had an interesting you know um it's been really interesting to to listen um to your interviews you specifically because you talk so much about your journey and faith i wonder if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about it with you know at the start i think you were leading down the road of how you how sick you got um yeah and i think that leads into your faith and i could be wrong um it for sure would you would you mind would you mind sharing it with everybody and take as long or as short as you want Tammy yeah well you know both both Jordan and I got very very sick but I got he was probably starting to show some symptoms before me but they weren't he could handle them still but but when I got sick then

I had surgery for renal cell carcinoma which the doctor said ah you can have surgery whenever you want. This doesn't kill anybody. It's just, it's kidney cancer, but it's treatable. And so it grows one millimeter a year. It never kills anybody. Okay, fine. So then we finished our tour and I went for surgery and it was March of 2019 and I had surgery and they took out half my kidney and my mother-in-law came to take care of me and my sister. And I have a sister who's a nurse, a palliative care nurse, and a sister-in-law who was a nurse and my mother-in-law was trained as a nurse so I have all these nurses all over

and they're wonderful people and they came to take care of me and I got better but about a month into it I got kind of a pain in my back in my flank and I was going seeing the surgeon

you know for my follow-up and I mentioned I had flank pain and he noted it and then he called me and he asked me to come into the office and he said and his hands were shaking

he was handing me pieces of paper the doctor's hands are shaking yeah the doctor's hands were shaking that's not good no that's not good right and I said he said so we thought you had renal cell carcinoma

but it turns out through the biopsy we found out that actually you have something that's much more lethal and you're going to die in 10 months. And there's no treatment because no one lives. We diagnosed this cancer posthumously. People die and then we find out that's what they died from. So it just goes through your body like crazy and you die. And we found it's in your lymph and we need to do surgery again right away.

But there's no chemo, there's no radiation. There's no treatment. And I went to the States. I went to M.D. Anderson's Cancer Hospital in Houston. They said there's nothing we can do. And I went to San Francisco University of San Francisco to the Oncology Department there. They said, no, there's nothing we can do.

If you have a surgeon and your surgeon is qualified, that's as good here as it is there. It's just go home and have surgery. So I went home. And I went to tell my son what my prognosis was. And I guess this was right after I went to the doctor. I went home to the neighborhood. My son lived at the end of the street.

And I looked at him. And I said, so I went to the doctor and it turns out that I have 10 months to live. And I saw in his eyes real grief, you know. I saw a child's love for his mother as a profound love. And it was a love that was nothing compared to the love I had for myself. I just didn't. I didn't have the love for myself that would save my life. But when I saw him and his grief,

something in me recognized that I was worthwhile saving. Because before that I had just said, oh, I'm going to die. Like, you know, my mom's dead, my aunts are dead, my uncles are dead. Maybe I'm going to die too. But it was really cynicism and self-doubt that was guiding me at that point. And I felt those things lift off my shoulders. And I felt the Holy Spirit come into my body. And I said to my son, you know what?

These doctors, they have an opinion, but they're not God. Only God knows when I'm going to live or die. And it was a real change of heart for me because I had always been a very independent and self-guided person. My dad taught me to be, you know, when I was a teenager, he would just stop me. He'd say, you're going out tonight. Don't do anything stupid and come home tonight. And that was the guidance I got was don't be stupid. Figure out your life and make it work.

And so I had a, and we all did in my family. We were all very independent people. And we all did what we thought was right along the way. But we never were taught that there was a God up above that had us in his hands and that when we needed help he would be there for us. We were never taught that. But at that moment, I realized that I was in God's hands and that it was his decision whether I lived or died. And there was, for me, all there was was, I could be of service to my son. I could love him. I could love my family. I could accept

care and let the chips fall where they would. And so that's how I began to live my life after that moment. And then when I was in the hospital, a woman came to me. She was kind of an acquaintance. I didn't know her well, but she's Catholic. And she converted to Catholicism in her first year university. They went to Rome and she converted to Catholicism there. And she devoted herself to Catholicism since then.

And she came over when Jordan had first, when everybody got to know who Jordan was. And she was working on trying to save the school systems in Canada. She was working with a politician and asked if Jordan could give some help. So that's when I met her. But I didn't know her at all. Now and then she left a can of maple syrup on our doorstep or something. She was nice. right she's the most Canadian thing in the world leaving a can of yeah maple syrup it's funny on

this side I've had a bottle of maple syrup shipped from Ontario to Alberta so yes that is about as Canadian as it gets isn't it yeah so then she emailed me uh once I'd had my surgery and the surgery went fine but I had a complication that wasn't fine that put me in the hospital again. So I had a, they'd taken out all my lymph on one side and the lymph is like a spider web in your body. And so there was a leak where they hadn't actually caudorized, maybe just one of the little branches, but they couldn't find it. And I'm not surprised. I don't even know how they find anything in there. So they put me in the hospital because I had, well, first of all, they, I was filling up with fluid, you know, about a month after.

or maybe, no, my sister said it wasn't a month. She said it was just maybe a week or 10 days after I'd had this second radical surgery where they took out all my lymph and my kidney. My feet started to swell. I thought, oh, what's going on? My feet are swelling. And then my lower legs swelled. And then my thighs swelled.

And I was like, whoa, what's going on? So we phoned the hospital. And they said, you know, you had radical surgery and you're going to have some swelling. And we're like, yeah, okay. Hmm. This doesn't seem very good. So then I went to the doctor and he looked at me and he said, you better go to emergency and get in the hospital right away.

So I got in the hospital and they siphoned off nine liters. Nine liters? Nine more than they'd ever siphoned off of anyone. My body fluids were leaking into my interstitial fluid. They were just leaking right into my and filling me up. I was just going to fill up and drown. That's really what my. destiny was and I thought I guess that's well I don't know that's I have to meditate on

that more the the kind of like the dream understanding of what that means but I was definitely drowning and they put up they put it like a siphon in my belly and siphoned off nine liters of fluid and then they left the speak it there and I had a bag on the side of my body and the nurse would come every day and take a leader off wasn't comfortable though because it was it was I had such a large amount of fluid that it was it was like I was pregnant the whole time I had so much fluid in my belly and in my lower and you know I I feel pretty good now I have a little bit of altered sensation in my foot and I have a little bit of pain on that side, on the left side in my leg.

But I can imagine that I went through, I mean, who knows, they may have nicked a nerve in my back, or all that fluid in my legs might have messed up some of the blood vessels and stuff in my legs. So it's not surprising that I might have a little bit of weirdness. but actually I'm I'm good so I had this bag that hung off me and I made laid in bed most of the time and I was supposed to not eat any fat because the lymph system takes the fat out and the thing is you know with this carnivore diet you lose a lot of weight did you notice you're losing weight yes yeah okay so the body this is what we think uh if you're eating things so please Plants, plants have poisons in them.

If they had legs, they would run away. They don't have legs, so they have poison in them so that they're not eaten, right? Animals have legs, they run away. Plants have poisons in them. If they had legs, they'd run away. That's kind of what I think about plants now. They're not happy to be eaten. That's not what they're here for.

They're here to have little baby plants and flourish. You know, that's what they're here for. So they have these poisons in them. And animals know not to eat them. Some animals, you know, if they can't eat them, they don't. But we just eat everything because we think we're omnivores. We can just eat whatever we want. So the body, the lymph, syphens out that fat, the toxins in the fat, because that's where the toxins go.

They go, the body stores them in fat. And so that's when people get obese. It's that there's so many toxins that the body is trying to store. that they have put on lots and lots of weight, but it's because they're eating something that their body can't tolerate. And if they stop eating it, then all that fat goes away again

because then they can get rid of all the toxins. And I think, you know, our bodies do pretty well when we're little. Some people get fat right away because they can't tolerate it at all. But some of us stay pretty healthy until we're 37 or so. Well, you just think the body's in. amazing thing to put in all you know not even just plant and just take the take all the vegetables and all the plants you want replace that with all the McDonald's and and fast foods that we all have eaten because I remember being

like 16 first time I'm in high school get to go for lunch where are you going McDonald's and you're getting like just so much crap and yet you were just so happy and the the body's just this amazing thing that takes absolute junk and turns it into things. I mean, like, I was an, I don't, I watch athletes now with all their nutritionists and everything else. I'm like, man, I can't imagine if I had some of that when I was, when I was back as a kid. You know, I tell this story all the time, Tammy. Dustin and I, my older brother and a friend, we biked across Canada, so we left Newfoundland and we biked on pedal bikes to Vancouver. Oh, wow. And when I got to Calgary, I saw some of my high

school friends. And one of my buddies went, I thought you'd be thinner. And it was such a, just like a gut shot. I was kind of like, oh. Oh, that's okay, okay, fine, fine, okay. I've just biked three quarters of the country and that's what you're going to say? Okay. So for the next, it took seven days from Calgary to Vancouver, memory serves me, correct? And I lost 11 pounds in seven days and all I did was change out. I ate no fries.

That's the only change I made. One thing. And now I've, of course, listened to a bunch on it and the oils and everything else. but it's crazy. You listen to your body and you change out little things. It can have crazy effects. And I always come back to the body. It's just this amazing factory that takes junk and does a lot of great things.

But you're right. Over time, it adds up. Over time, it adds up. And eventually, then you can't tolerate it anymore. Now, but I got cancer. So why did I get cancer? That's an interesting, and a really lethal cancer. Like, why did I get a really lethal?

And this is in 2019 when you get the cancer? Yeah, 2019. In March, I had surgery, and then in May I had a second surgery. And then until August, I was leaking. From May until August, I was leaking. And then in August, well, and of course, my husband was just, he was there in the hospital with me all the time. We were playing cards while I laid in bed.

It's got to, you know, man. As a married couple, there's got to be certain things that weigh heavy on you. That'd be one, right? Oh, yeah, that'd be one, yeah. Luckily, this friend of mine came and introduced me to the rosary, and she used to come to the hospital when I was finally put in the hospital. I was given a TPN diet where I was fed into my heart to try to let the lymph rest to hopefully. Fed directly into your heart?

Yeah. Yeah, right into the carotid artery. Oh, man. Like right in, right in, right in, I don't know exactly, right into the. Isn't that wild? Into the system. Yeah, it's wild. But you know, people live like that. There was a surgeon at the hospital who has been living like that for 25 years. And so he, when he goes to bed at night, he plugs himself in and he doesn't eat all day. He works all day. He works all day. his body's given nutrition at night through so that's how I had it was wild that's I didn't eat anything I didn't eat anything for five weeks five weeks didn't eat a thing for five weeks no no I had this diet that it was going right into my system so I had this diet I had the bag that was holding the fluids and then the bag that was feeding me man you like you must have felt

like a guinea pig at this point right like I mean you can't catch your break, Tammy. It was pretty intense. But I would go down at 10 in the morning with my friend Queenie, Queenie You, and pray the rosary every morning at 10 and set myself right. You know, I would pray for, I'd pray for all the elderly and then I'd pray for all the babies that have been aborted or I'd pray for all the people who are dying in wars and I'd pray, you know, So I'd do all my prayers. And I'd talk about how I missed my, how I was going to miss my family and stuff if things didn't go very well for me. And then I'd go up to my room and my husband would be there and my son would be there and we'd play cards.

But I was peaceful because I didn't let myself worry. I prayed. I'd wake up in the night and I only weighed 90 pounds, so I'd lost 30 pounds. because I wasn't getting any nutrition that was just going into my... You're literally getting fed into your heart. Well, once I got fed into my heart, I woke up and I kind of had some energy. Really? But yeah, it actually...

Then I finally got some food in my system. But if I ate, it went into my lymph. It went into my digestive system and it drained into my... And it drained out. Right, it drained out. So it wasn't getting to my cells. I was getting weaker and weaker and thinner and thinner. And then finally they put me in the hospital and gave me food into my...

Okay, okay. Yeah. So then it got somehow, it didn't go to my intestines. My intestines were no longer working. It would go straight to my heart because, you know, if you eat, it goes all through there and then that's given to your heart. And then it's distributed to the extremities. So they just

They just Bypassed the system and put it right to the heart Yeah and then it took three days And I woke up I thought oh wow Now I'm awake I mean I was kind of awake But I was kind of not awake Because I didn't have enough

Nutrition I was starving to death Really because I wasn't getting any nutrition It was leaking out into my spaces And not going to my cells So I was losing more and more weight. I took pictures of myself. My shoulder blades stuck out and my bum was gone, my breasts were gone, my cheeks were gone. Like I was, all I had was a belly full of fluid.

Oof. Yuck. It was pretty, pretty horrendous. But I didn't feel horrendous. I felt the peace that God gives you. That's what I felt. And that's all. all I felt. I woke up in the middle of the night and I'd pray the Lord's Prayer. I wouldn't let myself worry. I slept with a hot water bottle and all sorts of wool on and a comforter and everything because I was, I had no body fat, I was freezing to death. So I'd get myself warm at night, but I'd wake up and then I'd just pray.

And I'd go to, then they'd scan me and scan me and scan me, trying to find this leak. And it was cold. Down where they have all those scanning machines in the hospital, they keep it very cold because there's just full of machines. And so I'd go down there dressed in all this wool, and they would do whatever they had to do with me. And I would just pray. I'd pray through everything.

And if I prayed, it didn't hurt. Even something, things that hurt tremendously, I prayed and it didn't hurt. I could, the prayers stop the pain and they stopped me from worrying about what might happen or what is happening or I didn't worry at all. And I continue to do that. So last night I found out that my dad, he's 93, he's taken a turn for the worst. And so I'll hear. Sorry to hear that.

Yeah. Thank you. I just went to see him. So I just came from his house just over. just over a week ago. But he lives on Vancouver Island and I live in Toronto. So I'm the only one who's away.

My brother and my two sisters, they all live together in the same town on Vancouver Island. And my sister is a palliative care nurse, as I said. So she's really been very, she's taken care of him largely, but he's in a nursing home now. Has only been there since Christmas,

last Christmas. Anyway, so last night, so I found this out yesterday after, last night, I found this out last evening, just before I went for dinner. And it made me sad for sure. It made me sad because he might have had, I think he had another little TIA, like a small stroke. He's had a number of them. And he wasn't eating or drinking. And so my sister said, you know, maybe we'll stop giving him all his meds and, we'll see if he eats or drinks over the next few days and if he doesn't then maybe he's not

going to rally again but we're not going to do anything to try to make him rally because he's 93 years old and we've decided and he's decided that life has been good and he's had a good life but it's time to let god do whatever it is that he wants for my dad and so we're all in agreement on that but i went to bed last night of course I woke up in the middle of the night. And I prayed. I prayed the Lord's prayer and I prayed the Hail Mary. And I learned something about the Hail Mary this week that I'd like to share with you.

So the little bit of it where you repeat Hail Mary 10 times, Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. That's the first part of the prayer. And if you're praying it with someone, they pray that part. And then you pray the last part. So then you say, Jesus, Holy Mary, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. So that's the prayer.

But if you say this prayer yourself, hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now. the hour of our death. And so you might think that when Jesus goes together and then Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us. You're just saying Holy Mother, but you're not, you're saying the stop is before Jesus. It's Jesus, Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us sinners. Because this is Mary through Jesus.

This is a prayer. It's called the holy rosary. And so you're praying to Mother Mary, but you're praying to Mother Mary through Jesus Christ. Because a lot of people have trouble with the rosary because they think that you're just

praying to Mother Mary, but you're not. She's just intercession. She's just like a stepping stone to Jesus. That's what she is. And so this prayer is just another step to help people up towards Jesus Christ. And that's what all these things are that people do. That's what the beads are for it. It's a stepping stone to help you to attend to what you're doing to each prayer as you count them.

They're just stepping stones to help you be closer to Jesus. Christ. And so I just wanted to share that with you because I just learned that recently. So that's what I did last night. I prayed the Lord's Prayer and the Holy Rosary Prayer all night long from like 3.30 till 5 in the morning or something. And when I got up this morning, I was joyous and free again, even though my dad's die. So prayer is a remarkable thing. I find it a remarkable thing. It is, it brings me peace when you don't think that there's any peace to be had. I actually dreamed last night that the angels were taking my dad to heaven. That was good. It was good. The thing that, the thing that baffles me about prayer, Tammy, just baffles me. It just baffles me. Is he a young man,

A young teenager, let's say. Somewhere between 10 and 14, I can remember trying to pray. And I don't know, but I don't know. I just like, I don't know, like, right? Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Right. And then, and then I hit, I want to say 36. I'm going to say 36. So a year ago, maybe a little, I think it's somewhere in my 36 year. And I prayed. And it was like immediate. And the thing that baffles me the most about it is why can other people when they pray at younger ages because I've talked a lot of them?

They're like 10. Oh, I know. Or at 18, at 22, a 27, at 30. Sean's got to wait until 36. And others have to wait until they're well-past Sean. I'm not, you know, that's baffling to me. Because it's either, I guess it's baffling to me. Why is it, when I listen to your story, I don't fully get everything because each of us have our own paths to walk towards, as you know, you've so eloquently put it with Jesus Christ.

But I understand now the path where I'm walking towards. I'm like, okay, all right, that makes sense. But I don't understand why I, why did I have to wait until I was 36? Why couldn't have been 20? Why, or maybe I should be thankful it isn't 55, you know? I actually don't know. That's probably the most. That's right.

So when I was 17, I went skiing in the northern Rocky Mountains. Powder King. It was called Powder King. And it's up around Dawson Creek or, you know, up there. Because I was from Fairfield. In the north, yes. You're a rural girl. I am a rural girl.

That's for sure. I was from a town of 2,000 people. And there was nothing around really till Edmonton, and it was six hours away. Yeah. It's one thing probably in your travels when people are like, well, we got to drive an hour. You're like, yes, what are we complaining about? That's right. Yeah.

I mean, I couldn't believe it when we flew to the Netherlands and we were going to drive to Germany and we accidentally turned left and we were in Denmark. I think that's, you know, it's so small. It's so small. Yes. Compared to Canada. Canada's huge. I get, you know, I just,

I, uh, Canada. Love Canada. Anyways, sorry. Uh, the prayer thing. Um, uh, I didn't mean to cut you off. Oh, well,

you didn't cut me off. So we were talking about what we're talking about exactly. Well, I was just saying like it's, it's really baffling to me, the prayer. Like, why is it certain people at 18, 20?

And you were mentioning a story when you were 17. Oh, yeah. So when I was 17, I was skiing. Oh yeah, skiing at powder. Actually, I was skiing at sunshine just outside of Banff in the Rocky Mountains. And I was with my family. We went there at Christmas for a couple of years.

It was just absolutely stunning. But there was one mountain that you came down. And if you weren't going fast, you had to kind of go and you know, all the way to the chairlift. And I didn't want to do that. So I was coming down really fast and I was going to glide up to the chairlis, you know. And I was with my sister, my older sister, and she was ahead of me. And I heard, and we went over this little hill. It was like the last little hill before it was going to be flat.

And I heard her scream when she went over the hill, which kind of primed me. But when I came over the hill, I saw a big rock. And it was, it was about as long as a piano. and about as high as me. So it was a big rock. And I saw my life flash before my eyes. But when I opened my eyes, I was by the rock, and I never skied for seven years. It just scared my living daylights out of me.

But I didn't come to God then. That was a good chance for me to give up my self-will and to decide that there was someone else running the show besides me. But that wasn't enough. You know, I had a boyfriend, I think when I was 15 or 16. where we were in his car. He was a motorcycle mechanic. He was kind of a wild guy. Anyway, we were going to turn into our hometown.

We're at the approach. We're sitting there. And there was a semi-trailer truck coming down the highway, and he turned right in front of that truck. And I didn't, we didn't get hit, but I didn't have any kind of understanding that my life was saved by God. It wasn't my time or anything.

I just thought, ooh, that was close. And another time I was driving, it was dusk in northern Alberta, and dusk goes till midnight. So it goes all night, really, because it doesn't get dark in the summer in June, you know. So I was driving on one of these roads coming from a little town in the north down to Fairview. And I was listening to music and driving along.

And all of a sudden I went over an approach that I hadn't seen, maybe there was no stop sign. There should have been a stop sign. Anyway, I didn't see it. And the side roads are kind of lower and the highways are always higher. So you come up to the highway. Well, I flew over the highway and I turned and there were headlights right there. So the car that I, so I came up and there was a car there and it went by as I flew.

It must have just seen a blur. And that never brought me to God, even though I had to pinch myself because I was sure that I was going to be dead then. And I wasn't. That didn't bring. So I don't know. It's like I had to go through this terrible cancer diagnosis to bring me to God. I think he just keeps giving you challenges. He keeps giving you challenges.

He's like, how about this? He starts out, you know, kind of. kind of gently. Sometimes he starts out with a punch, but, you know, he starts out and he gives you something. How about this? What about that? What is what is it that's going to wake you up to the fact that you are not in control? You are not in the driver's seat. It's up to you to serve. It just takes some of, and some of us never get the chance. We get, we die. But for some reason, I got to live. And so I prayed to God that I would speak publicly, so here I am talking to you.

Well, I appreciate you being coming on. And I just, you know, I never love watching the time, but now I'm looking up, I'm going, oh, man, we've gone over. And I don't want to, I want to make sure I'm very cognizant of you being willing to hop on this side and do this. I would appreciate it, Tammy, if you'd come back on at some point. point because I'm like oh man I have so many questions and and you know it's you're just getting a you're just getting a conversation warmed up almost and uh if you're willing I think it's fun to talk

more than once because you just kind of get to know each other the first time yes well I would well I tell you what we'll talk off air about it of whether or not I can have you come back on this side or or the next time you're in Alberta come in the studio because in person as well that'd be fun either way uh appreciate you coming on and I'm going to kind of leave it as a cliffhanger because I'm like, oh man, my brain is like running right now. And I'm going to go, no, we're going to end it here so I can get you out of here a little late, but hopefully on time.

And the next time we'll carry on because, man, I found this very fascinating. It has lived up. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, lived up to maybe an expectation. I wasn't sure I'd put on it. But I appreciate you coming on and doing this and being.

so gracious with your time this morning. My pleasure. My pleasure. Well, I think the more that we talk, the more people will not be listening to the crazy voices on social media. Because there's some crazy voices on social media that are trying to do us all in. And so we need some real straight talk. we need people to be brave enough to speak up. So thank you for the invitation.

Yes, and I look forward to the next time. Thank you once again, Tammy. Bye-bye. Take care.